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Speaker 1: Since we first released Richard Glossop's story, there have been

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Speaker 1: some incredible developments. In the months following that release. A

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Speaker 1: bipartisan group of Oklahoma legislators commissioned an independent, third party

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Speaker 1: review of the case, which began in February twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: and upon that November's election of Oklahoma Attorney General Ganner Drummond,

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Speaker 1: the report was released along with his announcement admitting prosecutorial

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Speaker 1: errors and Brady violations and that he'd be seeking a

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Speaker 1: new trial, not conceding Richard's innocence, but acknowledging that the

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Speaker 1: trial was unfair. The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals ruled

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Speaker 1: that Drummond's concession didn't provide statutory or legal grounds for relief,

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Speaker 1: and over the last two years, that decision went all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the US Supreme Court and were

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Speaker 1: happy to report that they sided with Richard and Ganner Drummond,

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Speaker 1: and his death sentence and conviction have finally been busied. Now.

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Speaker 1: The majority decision was based on a Brady violation that

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Speaker 1: doesn't directly speak to Richard's innocence, but the credibility of

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Speaker 1: the state's only witness, Justin Snead, who testified falsely about

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Speaker 1: his mental health treatment that went uncorrected by the state,

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Speaker 1: but the credibility of sneed was critical to Richard's conviction.

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Speaker 1: Richard will be removed from death row but remain in

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Speaker 1: custody while awaiting a new trial in which two things

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Speaker 1: are in his favor. The death penalty may not even

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Speaker 1: be on the table. They may even be seeking a

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Speaker 1: lesser charge depending on the remaining evidence. Additionally, the exculpatory

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Speaker 1: material that has never been heard as a whole can

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Speaker 1: now finally have its day in court. Here's Richard's incredible

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Speaker 1: story in his own words. Richard Glossop was the manager

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Speaker 1: of a cdmotel in Oklahoma City called the Best Budget

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Speaker 1: in where he was responsible for large sums of cash

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Speaker 1: belonging to its owner, Barry Van Treace, cash that he

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Speaker 1: could have stolen at any time without violence. A traveling

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Speaker 1: roofer and methadic named Justin Snead began staying at the

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Speaker 1: motel in exchange for maintenance work while enjoying easy access

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Speaker 1: to the drugs and prostitutes one might find at a

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Speaker 1: seedy motel. In the early morning of January seventh, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven, Stead and a girlfriend lured Barry Van Trees

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Speaker 1: into Room one O two to rob him of the

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Speaker 1: cash he was known to carry. Barry resisted and was

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Speaker 1: bludgeoned and stabbed to death. His car was moved to

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Speaker 1: a nearby lot. Later that morning, Snead off handedly told

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Speaker 1: Richard that he had killed Barry, but after seeing that

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Speaker 1: Barry's car was not at its usual spot, Richard dismissed

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Speaker 1: what he thought was Sneed's usual drug adult ramblings. When

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Speaker 1: the body was discovered, Richard told police about what Snead

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Speaker 1: had said, causing them to focus on him. Even though

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Speaker 1: Snead eventually confessed, the police steered him to implicate Richard

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Speaker 1: as the mastermind of a murder for higher scheme for

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Speaker 1: him his testimony, Snead escaped to death penalty in exchange

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Speaker 1: from life without parole, swapping Richard into his place. The

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Speaker 1: word of a meth head and alleged motive to steal

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Speaker 1: cash was all.

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Speaker 2: It took.

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Speaker 1: Twenty four years, two trials, three stays of execution, a

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Speaker 1: lethal injection drug scandal, and two Supreme Court cases later,

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Speaker 1: Richard remains on death row in Oklahoma. This is wrongful

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Speaker 1: conviction with Jason Flapp welcome back to wrongful conviction with

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Speaker 1: Jason Flamm that's me. And if I sound a little

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Speaker 1: down today, it's because this case that you're going to

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Speaker 1: hear about is one of the most troubling cases I've

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Speaker 1: ever heard of in my now twenty ninth year of

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Speaker 1: doing this type of work. With us. Today we have

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Speaker 1: one of the respected, even revered criminal and civil defense attorneys,

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Speaker 1: a man named Don Knight. Welcome to ronfel conviction.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: And of course with us today calling in from the

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma State Penitentiary where he is now in his twenty

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Speaker 1: third year on death row, and that is of course,

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Speaker 1: Richard Glossip.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is a collect call from for sure, an

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Speaker 3: incarcerated individual at Oklahoma State Penitentiary. This call is not private.

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Speaker 3: This call will be recorded and may be monitored. To

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Speaker 3: consent to this recorded call, press one to disconnect. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for using securists. You may start the conversation now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Richard. I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but

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Speaker 1: I'm happier here.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. That's cool. Twenty four years of this

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Speaker 3: and it stead a long battle and it dis continues,

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Speaker 3: but the good thing is I'm still.

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Speaker 1: Here, Richard, if you don't mind take us back to

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Speaker 1: your childhood. You said, sort of an unusual childhood and

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Speaker 1: moved from Illinois to Oklahoma. But also you were one

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Speaker 1: of a lot of children, right, You had a lot

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Speaker 1: of brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And I actually grew up in Geilsburg, Illinois. There

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Speaker 3: was sixteen of us. It was eight boys and eight girls.

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Speaker 3: You know, I grew up around a lot of addiction

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and you know, I just didn't

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Speaker 3: think I was going to get anywhere if I stayed

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Speaker 3: there any longer. And I left home when I was

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Speaker 3: fourteen and just made it on my own.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's actually kind of a miracle that you survived.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we could do a whole podcast about that alone.

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Speaker 1: But your story hadn't even begun yet. So, okay, you

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Speaker 1: were strange from your family for many years, working and

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Speaker 1: getting by. But how'd you end up in Oklahoma where

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Speaker 1: you got a job at the best budget in working

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Speaker 1: for Barry Van Trees.

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Speaker 3: My mom and dad retired and they decided to move

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Speaker 3: out here to Oklahoma to be closer to my mom's family.

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Speaker 3: And in nineteen ninety three, my dad's health was and

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Speaker 3: my mom asked me if I would come out here

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Speaker 3: and spend some time with my dad, And that's how

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Speaker 3: I ended up with the best budget in.

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Speaker 4: Barry Van Trees didn't just run the best budget in

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Speaker 4: Oklahoma City, he also ran best budget in in Tulsa.

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Speaker 4: These were really low rent motels. They were a cash business.

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Speaker 4: There was a lot of drug activity and prostitution. Barry

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Speaker 4: Van Trees would come by every couple of weeks to

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Speaker 4: the Oklahoma City Best Budget in where he would pick

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Speaker 4: up the cash from Rich. Rich would have sometimes up

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Speaker 4: to thirty thousand dollars in receipts depending on how long

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Speaker 4: it took for Van Trees to come by the motel.

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Speaker 4: So Rich was constantly handling large amounts of money and

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Speaker 4: there was never any question about whether Rich was stealing money.

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Speaker 4: He was not stealing anything at all.

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Speaker 1: Right, And if he wanted to steal the money, he

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Speaker 1: could have done so almost any time without violence, and

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Speaker 1: he could have skipped down. But he never did, and

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Speaker 1: certainly he didn't do so by involving a meth head

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Speaker 1: named Justin Sneak. Now, Justin had come through town with

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Speaker 1: a roof and crew out of Texas, and while he

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Speaker 1: was staying at the best budget in and he worked

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Speaker 1: out a deal for a free room in exchange for

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Speaker 1: maintenance and other work around the motel.

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Speaker 3: Right, yes, I said, hey, I need you to go

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Speaker 3: take care of this, or I need to take these

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Speaker 3: people from tiles or whatever the case may be. He

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Speaker 3: always did it. But as time went by, it was

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Speaker 3: getting harder to find him, and I was going to

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Speaker 3: let him go a couple of times, but you know,

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Speaker 3: very like the fact that he was working Beru the

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Speaker 3: very God didn't want me to let him go. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: towards all this happening, in the end, it was like

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Speaker 3: I hardly ever found him to do what he was

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Speaker 3: supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: Did you catch any signs that he was using math?

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Speaker 3: Well, they were up all the time. So I did

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Speaker 3: have a couple of family members that did it, and

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Speaker 3: so learning from how they acted, you know, I could

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Speaker 3: tell that, yeah, definitely they want something. Justin was a

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Speaker 3: very odd guy. He would say things that would throw

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Speaker 3: you off. He would say things that would just make

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Speaker 3: him scratch your head and go, man, this guy is

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Speaker 3: just like really weird.

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Speaker 1: So were there any signs that he might have been

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Speaker 1: robbing people to support his habit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had one of the a guy

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Speaker 3: named John Bieber's king to me and that he was

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Speaker 3: missing a big jar of coins. When he said he

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Speaker 3: thought Justin did it. I didn't believe him, But hindsight

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Speaker 3: is twenty.

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Speaker 1: Twenty, right, Yeah, it sure is. And at the time

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Speaker 1: you and your girlfriend Deanna Wood were spending a lot

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Speaker 1: of time together and most of it at the motel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I lived on the property. I lived behind the

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Speaker 3: front desk in an apartment, so I'm always on the

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Speaker 3: property other than like DN and i'd being able to

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Speaker 3: go out and do something on our own. Why the

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Speaker 3: desk pork was there?

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Speaker 1: Now this brings us all the way up to January seventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. At six am, Justin Snead woke rich

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Speaker 1: up and told him about a broken window and then

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Speaker 1: kind of off handily says, oh, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: I killed Barry. Now, Snead was known for saying weird

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, and so when Richard looked at Barry's

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Speaker 1: usual parking spot and didn't see Barry's car, he wrote

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Speaker 1: it off as Sneed just being Sneid. Now, later on

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Speaker 1: Barry Venturees's car was spotted in the Credit Union parking

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Speaker 1: lot about fifty yards away from the Best Budget, but

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Speaker 1: there was no sign of Barry, so this kicked off

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Speaker 1: a search, and Rich was out shopping with his girlfriend

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Speaker 1: Deiana and was called back to work around three pm.

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Speaker 1: So at this point Rich is wondering do I tell

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Speaker 1: the police about what sneeds said? But he Indiana decided

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Speaker 1: against it because they didn't even know if Barry was

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Speaker 1: dead or not. And finally at ten pm, Barry's body

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Speaker 1: was discovered in room one oh two. He had been

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Speaker 1: beaten with a baseball bat as well as having been

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Speaker 1: stabbed with a blunt object.

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Speaker 4: What happened here was that Barry van Trees stopped in

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Speaker 4: in the evening of January sixth, took care of payroll

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Speaker 4: and took care of everybody at the Best Budget in

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Speaker 4: Oklahoma City before leaving and driving to Tulsa to take

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Speaker 4: care of the payroll and the situation in Tulsa. He

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Speaker 4: didn't get to Tulsa till around midnight or so and didn't.

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Speaker 2: Stay there very long.

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Speaker 4: Told the people in tolsonhen he left to tell his

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Speaker 4: wife that he would be home in five and a

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Speaker 4: half hours. Home was Lawton Oklahoma. It doesn't take five

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Speaker 4: and a half hours to get to Lawton, so obviously,

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Speaker 4: when he said that he had plans to stop, he

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Speaker 4: stopped back the best budget in in Oklahoma City where

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Speaker 4: he went to room one oh two, and that's where

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Speaker 4: Justin Snead was waiting for him, or at least his

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Speaker 4: girlfriend was waiting for him. Because we have found out

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Speaker 4: that there was another person involved in this case. It

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Speaker 4: wasn't Rich Glossop, but it was Justin Snead's girlfriend. The

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Speaker 4: information that we have found is that it was simply

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Speaker 4: a robbery attempt. These two meth fueled young people thought

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Speaker 4: they could simply take the keys from Barry Van Trees

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Speaker 4: and get the money out of his car without Van

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Speaker 4: Trees knowing or objecting. I don't know what their plan was.

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Speaker 4: We talked to one witness and she had a great statement.

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Speaker 4: She said, when you've been on meth for twenty days

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Speaker 4: in a row, the idea fairy appears. That looks like

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Speaker 4: what happened here. These two people knew Barry Van Trees

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Speaker 4: had a lot of money, and so we think that

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Speaker 4: he was lured into room one h two by this girl.

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Speaker 4: He knew he was coming back to that place and

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Speaker 4: once there, confronted by Justin Snead. From the information we

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Speaker 4: have that we have found from new witnesses, Sneid admitted

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Speaker 4: that he was intending simply to take Van Trees's money

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Speaker 4: and not kill him. But Van Trees fought back, and

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Speaker 4: at the end of that fight, Barry van Trees was

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Speaker 4: beaten to death. It wasn't just beaten to death, but

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Speaker 4: there was also some stab wounds on his body from

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Speaker 4: a very blunt object. And the blunt object appears to

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Speaker 4: be a pocket knife that the police found in the

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Speaker 4: motel room that had its tip broken off. So for

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Speaker 4: this murder, Justin Snead and his girlfriend had two weapons,

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Speaker 4: a baseball bat and a broken knife.

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Speaker 2: It would be.

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Speaker 1: Really low on anyone's choices of how to go right, sure.

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Speaker 4: But also I think low on somebody's idea of how

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Speaker 4: to kill somebody. I mean, if you're really planning to

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Speaker 4: murder someone, you don't go with a dull knife in

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Speaker 4: a baseball bat. You know. It sounds like a bad

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Speaker 4: plan from mess fueled young people. And the aftermath was

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Speaker 4: a continuation of that bad plan.

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Speaker 2: The vehicle where.

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Speaker 4: The money was was moved not more than fifty yards,

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Speaker 4: not as if it was moved away so that it

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Speaker 4: could be hidden. It was within plain view of the

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Speaker 4: best budget in in a credit union, right next to

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Speaker 4: the best budget in. It was found there the next

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Speaker 4: morning by the security guard off duty sheriff's deputy working

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Speaker 4: at the way Yoki credit Union found this vehicle sort

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Speaker 4: of with one tire up on the curb, parked in

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Speaker 4: a place that it shouldn't be parked, and that's what

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Speaker 4: started the investigation on the seventh into Barryvan Teresa's death.

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Speaker 1: So you might notice that rich hasn't been mentioned yet

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Speaker 1: in the story of this crime, and that's because no one,

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Speaker 1: not even the prosecution, ever claimed that he was even

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Speaker 1: in the room when it happened. Rich was sleeping in

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Speaker 1: the apartment behind the front desk with his girlfriend. That's undisputed.

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Speaker 1: So why are we even having this conversation and how

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Speaker 1: is rich on death row? Well, the lead investigators in

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Speaker 1: this case, bimohen Cook, who did little to no investigation,

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Speaker 1: basically didn't talk to anyone at the motel and instead

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Speaker 1: focused on Richard early on for a few very ill

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Speaker 1: conceived reasons.

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Speaker 4: They focus on rich and I think the first reason

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Speaker 4: is Rich's last name is Glossom. Rich's family was a

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Speaker 4: known family with a criminal history in Oklahoma, So I

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Speaker 4: think that's one thing. The second thing when they found

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Speaker 4: Van Trees's body at ten o'clock and they said, you know, Rich,

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Speaker 4: why shot You come in and sit and talk with us.

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Speaker 4: And was at that point that Rich told them about

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Speaker 4: that statement that Sneed made. That was the point I

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Speaker 4: think when the police said, oh, well, he's hiding something.

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Speaker 4: And I think that, in combination with Rich's last name,

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Speaker 4: I think that's what made the police begin to think

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Speaker 4: Rich Glossip had something to do.

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Speaker 2: With this case.

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Speaker 1: They decide to focus on this one statement that he omitted, right,

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Speaker 1: which is, I don't know that I would have done

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Speaker 1: anything differently myself.

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Speaker 4: It's clearly his right to do so. I mean, he

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Speaker 4: doesn't have to talk to the police. Nobody has to

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Speaker 4: talk to the police.

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Speaker 1: After this initial interview, on the seventh, Rich sells some

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Speaker 1: personal items to raise money for a lawyer and talk

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Speaker 1: to an attorney named David Mackenzie, who told him quite

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Speaker 1: rightly to not speak with the police. But Rich did

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Speaker 1: what a lot of innocent people do, right. He believed

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Speaker 1: that just telling the truth, we'll set you free. So

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Speaker 1: he talked to Bemo and Cook anyway.

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Speaker 4: In the parking lot of Mackenzie's office, the police were

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Speaker 4: waiting for Rich. Rather than tell them I can't talk

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Speaker 4: to you because this lawyer just told me this is

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Speaker 4: what I'm supposed to say, Rich says, okay, I'll talk

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Speaker 4: to you, and Demo and Cook.

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Speaker 2: To have a real bad history.

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Speaker 4: Of how they do their interrogations, and when they set

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Speaker 4: themselves upon Rich, they were going to do what they

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Speaker 4: could do to try to get Rich to say things

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Speaker 4: that they could say were inconsistent, and then they would

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Speaker 4: start driving that home to try to get him to

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Speaker 4: confess to this crime.

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Speaker 1: But he never does confess to the crime. However, they

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Speaker 1: start trying to tell him that he said things in

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Speaker 1: his initial interview on the seventh that he did not.

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Speaker 1: They tried to catch him in lies with lies of

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Speaker 1: their own, and it's clear that they have their sites

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Speaker 1: set on him. Meanwhile, Snead took off on the afternoon

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Speaker 1: of the seventh, before Barry's body was even found. He

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Speaker 1: went off working with the roofing crew that he came

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Speaker 1: into town with from Texas, trying to make himself scarce.

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Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, he left.

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Speaker 4: New motel sometime after three o'clock, just took a skateboard

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Speaker 4: and took off again. It was it's something that the

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Speaker 4: prosecutor in both trials tried to paint that he was

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Speaker 4: totally dependent on Glossop for everything because he had no

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Speaker 4: way of making any money, which was just wrong. I mean,

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Speaker 4: first off, he was stealing the place blind, he was

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Speaker 4: breaking into motel rooms, he was breaking into cars, he

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Speaker 4: was doing everything he could do to get money for

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Speaker 4: his drug habit. But when he left the motel that.

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Speaker 2: Day, he skateboarded over to where the people who he.

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Speaker 4: Used to work for doing roofing were and he joined

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Speaker 4: the roofing crew again. So he had the opportunity at

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Speaker 4: any point in time to go make more money doing

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Speaker 4: his roofing work than he ever made it the best

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Speaker 4: budget in and he did that on that day. They

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Speaker 4: didn't catch Snead until the fourteenth of January. It was

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Speaker 4: the owner of the roofing company who seeing the news

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Speaker 4: accounts of what had happened and seeing Sneed's picture on

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Speaker 4: the news, that said to Sneid, I think you need

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Speaker 4: to turn yourself in. So he's the one that called

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Speaker 4: the police and that's when they interrogated Snead.

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Speaker 1: Right, and in Sneed's interrogation it's clear that Rich is

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Speaker 1: their main target. So they start working Snead over to

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Speaker 1: both admit to the crime and implicate Rich in some way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this was not a situation where they were saying, okay, justin,

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Speaker 4: we've caught you, why don't you tell us what happened. Instead,

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Speaker 4: they go through this long prelude telling him what happened,

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Speaker 4: telling him what they know, telling him that they know

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Speaker 4: that somebody else was involved, and they don't want him

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Speaker 4: to hang alone. And in Sneed's first is like, I

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Speaker 4: don't even know what to say. I don't know what

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Speaker 4: to tell you, as if he didn't have anything to

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Speaker 4: do with it. And then they brought Rich's name into it.

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Speaker 4: We think Rich had something to do with it. You know,

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Speaker 4: he's under arrest. So Snead never said anything about Glossop

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Speaker 4: at all. That came from the police, and then they

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Speaker 4: began to work with Sneid from there until they finally got.

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Speaker 2: This sort of crazy idea about.

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Speaker 4: Rich wanting to steal the money, kill Van Trees and

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Speaker 4: split the money with Snead, and somehow or another they

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Speaker 4: would run the motels some crazy story that came out,

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Speaker 4: which I think you would probably expect from somebody who's

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Speaker 4: high on.

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Speaker 1: Math, right, and who's being fed information by police who

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Speaker 1: are exactly not interested in the truth here, so.

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Speaker 4: Right, because if they had been interested in the truth,

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Speaker 4: they simply would have said, why don't you tell us

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Speaker 4: what happened? Tell us everything that you know.

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Speaker 1: And so Snead confesses to the murder. But what's clear

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Speaker 1: from his interrogation is that he was steered to drag

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Speaker 1: Rich into it as the mastermind of a murder for

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Speaker 1: higher plot, and then Snead uses this made up scenario

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Speaker 1: to save himself, making a deal for a life without

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Speaker 1: parole instead of the death held.

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Speaker 4: We have a witness who says he talked to Sneed

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Speaker 4: that year while he was in jail with Sneed, and

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Speaker 4: as Sneed said, I had two main goals. One I

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Speaker 4: didn't want the death penalty and two I didn't want

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Speaker 4: my girlfriend to get caught. Sneed got both of what

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Speaker 4: he wanted at Rich's expense.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss Rifkin, Porton and Garrison,

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Speaker 1: a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had

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Speaker 1: an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance

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Speaker 1: to the most vulnerable members of our society and in

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Speaker 1: support of the public interest, including extensive work in the

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Speaker 1: criminal justice area.

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Speaker 3: Detective Demo in the document series that Was Done changed

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Speaker 3: what he testified at two trials, and it was a

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Speaker 3: murder for hire. He gives the statement in our docu

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Speaker 3: series where he says, Oh, I think it was a

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Speaker 3: robbery went bad. That's the original story that Justin gave him,

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Speaker 3: that it was a robbery went bad, and they knew

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Speaker 3: that that's what it was, but they needed it to

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Speaker 3: be more. In my opinion, you know, prosecutors and stuff

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Speaker 3: need these notches in their belt so bad so they

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Speaker 3: can further their career.

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Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: Who they get that notch from, as long as they

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Speaker 3: get it. My first judge, Judge Johnson, even looked at

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Speaker 3: the prosecutor and said, I don't understand where this is

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Speaker 3: the murder case, and she convinced the judge will give

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Speaker 3: me some time. And that's the only reason the judge

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Speaker 3: even allowed it to go forward, because he was convinced

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Speaker 3: by a prosecutor to let her build a case.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So don There is a villain in this story,

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Speaker 1: of course. I'm talking about then district's attorney, Bob Macy,

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Speaker 1: who was nicknamed the Angel of Death, and he seemed

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Speaker 1: to get off on winning death penalty cases, innocent, guilty, whatever.

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Speaker 1: He played dress up like a cowboy, although he was

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Speaker 1: not a cowboy. Can you tell us about this awful character.

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Speaker 4: Bob Macy's just one of a handful of prosecuting attorneys

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Speaker 4: in the country that really drives the death penalty in

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Speaker 4: this country. There are only a handful of places where

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Speaker 4: most of the death penalty verdicts come from, or at least

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Speaker 4: that has been the way in the past. New Orleans

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Speaker 4: there was certainly one in Oklahoma City. And these prosecutors

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Speaker 4: they derive their power, i think, and their political base

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Speaker 4: from seeking and getting the death penalty. They look at

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Speaker 4: that as being tough on crime, and Bob Macy certainly

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Speaker 4: forged his legacy with all of that in mind. I

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Speaker 4: think the thing that happens in these places is it

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Speaker 4: can't just be one person that does this, but it

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Speaker 4: becomes a culture. He was in power in Oklahoma City

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Speaker 4: for a long time. A lot of his prosecutors went

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Speaker 4: on to become judges. So now you've got not just

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Speaker 4: the prosecuting attorney's office, but they're on the bench as well.

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Speaker 4: So they've got judges, prosecutors, forensic people, you've got police,

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Speaker 4: and you've got jurors who are just ready to go

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Speaker 4: on these death penalty cases. And they begin to sort

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Speaker 4: of cow the defense bar into either going along and

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Speaker 4: getting their clients some kind of plea or they lose

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Speaker 4: at trial, and these death verdicts result. It becomes a

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Speaker 4: cultural situation where you have no one fighting anymore for

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Speaker 4: the defendant and to sort of get on the train

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Speaker 4: or get run over by the trained mentality takes over.

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Speaker 1: So Rich is charged with capital murder, which the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's being tried for his life or not having

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Speaker 1: killed anyone is insane in and of its but that's

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Speaker 1: a totally another story. And so a trial sneed testified

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Speaker 1: that Rich was the mastermind behind this murder for higher plot,

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Speaker 1: thereby receiving the direct benefit of not being sent to

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Speaker 1: death row himself. I feel like this should have been

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Speaker 1: easy to be.

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Speaker 4: So Rich had a terrible lawyer, guy named Wayne Farnarat.

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Speaker 4: In the first trial, he never I don't even know

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Speaker 4: if he ever tried.

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Speaker 2: A case before.

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Speaker 4: He was completely incompetent and put on no witnesses, didn't

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Speaker 4: know how to cross examine anybody. Basically, the case went

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Speaker 4: exactly as the prosecutors wanted it to go, and Rich

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Speaker 4: was sentenced to death. Kaunerot had no idea how to

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Speaker 4: do a penalty phase in a death case. He didn't

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Speaker 4: do any investigation. I mean, Rich was a guy without

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Speaker 4: a criminal history at all. I mean, if you're talking

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Speaker 4: about the death penalty in the United States, you're supposedly

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Speaker 4: talking about the worst of the worst. Well, Rich had

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Speaker 4: never committed a crime before. How could he possibly be

437
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 4: the worst of the worst? Is this crime bad?

438
00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 2: Yes?

439
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 4: Is it the worst crime ever? No, it's not the

440
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: worst crime ever. So he doesn't fit that category at all.

441
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 4: And yet, because of the way things were in Oklahoma

442
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 4: at the time, they were able to get a conviction

443
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 4: and a death sentence.

444
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: Right So was Rich convicted solely on the basis of

445
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: the testimony of a murderous meth head or was there

446
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: some sort of other evidence offered a trial?

447
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 4: I would answer the question in both ways. Yes, no question.

448
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 4: It was really all about what Snead said, and he

449
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 4: said very many different things at different times. He initially

450
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 4: told the police that Glossip told him to kill Van

451
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: Trees and rob him of somewhere around five thousand dollars

452
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 4: and they would split it. But by the time the

453
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 4: first trial rolled around, Snead added things like Rich told

454
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 4: me to go buy some muriatic acid because we were

455
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 4: going to melt the body and I wasn't able to

456
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 4: do that. So Sneed had a variety of story worries

457
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 4: that ultimately came out that just simply shows that he

458
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 4: was not telling the truth. He was never consistent with

459
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 4: anything that he said, and the prosecutor had to sort

460
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 4: of cobble together what the Court of Appeals would later

461
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 4: call corroborating evidence that was really really weak from a

462
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 4: standpoint of corroborating evidence. They had put together a spreadsheet

463
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 4: and an allegation that Rich was stealing money, that somehow

464
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 4: or another, the Van Trees family knew he was stealing

465
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 4: money and that they were about to fire him, and

466
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 4: Rich knew he was about to be fired, and so

467
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 4: that formed the motive for Rich to do this killing.

468
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 4: There is no real evidence of that. We took a

469
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 4: look at that spreadsheet, which, by the way, no one

470
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 4: did until we got involved in this case. We have

471
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 4: two forensic accountants who looked at it and they said,

472
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 4: the idea that Rich was stealing money based upon the

473
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 4: information that we see is crazy.

474
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: So after his first conviction, Rich took his case to

475
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals, who called the evidence

476
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: against him extremely weak.

477
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 4: And the Oklahoma Quarter Criminal Appeals looked at the job

478
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 4: that Wayne Farnerott did and said this can't be okay,

479
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 4: and in a unanimous verdict which never happened undirect appeal

480
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 4: threw it back and said he gets a new trial.

481
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: Right. So the second trial rolls around and Oklahoma is

482
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: not done with their dirty tricks. And you know what

483
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the way that they managed to remove

484
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: an attorney who was prepared to probably win this case

485
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: and right this wrong.

486
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, this lawyer was the appellate lawyer for Rich, a

487
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 4: guy named Lynn Birch, did a great job getting the

488
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 4: case tossed out on appeal, decided to keep it, and

489
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: was working the case leading up to the second trial

490
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 4: when he made an error. And that is going to

491
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 4: see Justin Snead. The night before the trial began. They

492
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 4: think Lynn Birch was looking to see if there was

493
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 4: some way that Sneed would simply come clean and tell

494
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 4: the truth. The air that Lynn Birch made was not

495
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 4: taking an investigator with him, not taking a third party,

496
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 4: because when he showed up in court the next morning.

497
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: The prosecutor said, Judge, we've.

498
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 4: Got a problem. Lynn Birch was threatening our witness and

499
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 4: was harassing Justin Snead. Rather than fight that, which I

500
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 4: think Burch should have done, he should have said, I

501
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: didn't do anything like that. I never said anything wrong.

502
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 4: Let me tell you what I told him. Put me

503
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: on the witness stand, put Sneed on the witness stand,

504
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 4: let's have it out. Birch simply said, you know, okay,

505
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 4: you know I probably screwed up in there, and he

506
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 4: left the case the morning of trial, which caused a

507
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 4: six month extension. But with Birch gone, it left it

508
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 4: in the hands of two lawyers who were not prepared

509
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 4: for the trial, and he did very little in the

510
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 4: lead up to the next trial. They did no investigation,

511
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 4: they put on no witnesses, their cross examinations were horrible.

512
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 4: They allowed the prosecution to run wild with leading questions. Basically,

513
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: the kids were greased and the prosecution just got their

514
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 4: case through like they wanted.

515
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: In the second trial, it was really strange because the

516
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: prosecutor came into the courtroom, she looked at the jury

517
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 3: and she goes, I have no evidence against Richard clad

518
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: just justin sneath. So now it becomes who you're going

519
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: to believe. Every witness had new testimony. Who when they

520
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: were asked, oh, you didn't remember it the day it happened,

521
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 3: but you remember it seven years later, And they would

522
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: sit there and say, the prosecutor helped us remember.

523
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: As a result, the results were predictable, which is that

524
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: in August two thousand and four, another Oklahoma jury found

525
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: Richard guilty and Richard gets sentenced to death again.

526
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: It's strange how you go through your whole life doing

527
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: what's right, thinking that you know, if you tell the truth,

528
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: then everything's going to be okay. And then you're standing

529
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: there when somebody says, you know, we find you guilty

530
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 3: of murder and you had nothing to do with this

531
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: prime and your your mouth this balls opening. This feeling

532
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: comes over you like, how can this possibly be happening

533
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: to me? This doesn't make sense. It's one of the

534
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: strangest feelings that's really hard to put into work. But

535
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: it's just like every part of you just goes now.

536
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: It's like you're just in shock, and you don't know,

537
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: you don't even have a response to it. You just

538
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: stand there and you just like you just can't even

539
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: believe it. It's one of the most overwhelming things I've

540
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: ever had to face, you know, when I walked in.

541
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 3: They take you to the main gate up there, and

542
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: they put you in this little shock. They wait to

543
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: get people to take you down to agna where you're

544
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: supposed to go, and I got to be honest with you,

545
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: and they open that door, like your whole disappears almost

546
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: immediately because it's so gloomy and so cold. In all honesty,

547
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: it felt like death. It just felt like you were

548
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: surrounded by death.

549
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: Rich.

550
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: I want you to know that there are a lot

551
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: of good people who are out here pulling for you

552
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: more than you even know. And so you ended up

553
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: exhausting all of your appeals with substandard representation who never

554
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: did any of the necessary investigation into your case, so

555
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: predictably you had more of the same results, which brings

556
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: us to your clemency proceedings back in twenty fourteen.

557
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: Which turned out to be just as big of a

558
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: fiasco as my trials did.

559
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: Now.

560
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: I was turned down for Clymothy, and the reason being

561
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: is not only was there a prosecutor from my case

562
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: on the board, Bob Macy's Sun was as well, and

563
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: when we brought to their attentions after him, I was

564
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: denied Clymathy. The clemency board claimed that they had no

565
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: idea that she had been as here on my case?

566
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: Did she not remember?

567
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: She knew me really well?

568
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,479
Speaker 1: And Bob Macy Sun is there as well.

569
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe some still has something to do with the

570
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: billboard today.

571
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: I'm rarely at a loss for words, but that is

572
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: just ridiculous.

573
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: I know, why don't we have anybody that had anything

574
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: to do about me or his office on a parole

575
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: board that deals with that throw inmids.

576
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: So your clemency was denied, but you didn't take that.

577
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: Sitting down in o Sober twenty fourteen, I started this campaign.

578
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: I was writing letters on hundreds of letters to everybody.

579
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: I wrote letters to John McCain, who answered me, by

580
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: the way, who I became friends with, and he introduced

581
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 3: my case to people here in Oklahoma like Tom Koger

582
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 3: and others who sit up for me back then.

583
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: So, while Richard was fighting for his life, other significant

584
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: events were afoot concerning the way in which the state

585
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: planned to kill him and others. Lethal injection Lethal injection

586
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: as a method of state sanction murder, consists of three drugs.

587
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: A sedative, which depresses the nervous system and renders a

588
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: person unconscious, next a paralytic, which provides skeletal and muscular

589
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: relaxation as well as depresses respiration, and finally a potassium

590
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: solution which causes cardiac arrest. The most common lethal injection

591
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: drug combination is for the sedative sodium theopental or pentobarbitol,

592
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: then pancuronium bromide as the paralytic, and finally potassium chloride,

593
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: which causes the heart attack. In twenty eleven, some American

594
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: pharma companies halted production of sodium theopental, and the European

595
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: Union enacted a torture regulation that banned the export of

596
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: drugs for the use of lethal injections, starting with sodium

597
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: theopental and later pentobarbitol. So by twenty fourteen, states were

598
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: experiencing a shortage of the necessary drugs, which affected their

599
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: ability to carry out death sentences according to protocol, Oklahoma

600
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: began looking for alternatives like medazolin in place of sodium theopental.

601
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: Following this change, the forty three minute long botched execution

602
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: of Clayton Lockett on April twenty ninth, twenty fourteen. Another

603
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: death row inmate, Charles Warner, awaited the same fate that night,

604
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: just steps away from the death chamber, but as a

605
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: result of the horror of Lockett's execution, Warners was delayed.

606
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: After an investigation, Oklahoma blamed an inability to find Lockett's

607
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: veins as the cause of the botched execution and decided

608
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: to continue with the same drug protocol involving medazlam as

609
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: a sedative, prompting Richard, Charles Warner, and nineteen others to

610
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: sue Oklahoma, and eventually they took the case all the

611
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: way to the Supreme Court the United States. While this

612
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: was being litigated, Richard's clemency was denied and his campaign

613
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: from death row was just beginning. He got in touch

614
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: with renowned death penalty abolitionist sister Helen Prejhn with his

615
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: first execution date and Warner's loom in January twenty fifteen.

616
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 4: So in late twenty fourteen, he calls sister Helen, or

617
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 4: he sends her a letter and says, hey, sister Helen,

618
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 4: you know, will you be with me when they kill me?

619
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 4: And she looks into the case a little bit and

620
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 4: then she calls me. And I got together with another

621
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 4: lawyer named Mark Olive who does a lot of state

622
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 4: habeas work. And by now we're out of options. I

623
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 4: mean there's no court appearances left, clemency has been done. Basically,

624
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 4: we're out of options. At this point in time, Rich

625
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 4: comes up for an execution date.

626
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: So Oklahoma sets the date for January twenty nine, twenty fifteen.

627
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't know this, but in

628
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: Oklahoma and other states, a period of real psychological torture

629
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: begins prior to execution.

630
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 3: Now, I was taken upstairs. They take you up thirty

631
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: five days prior to your execution. You have to sit

632
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: in this room that is so brightly lit for twenty

633
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: four hours a day. Lights never go out so bright

634
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 3: that I can see a tiny ant walking across a

635
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: dark and gray floor. That's how bright that rumor is.

636
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: You're on camera twenty four to seven, and you have

637
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: a guard sitting outside your door twenty four seven. You

638
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 3: can't cover your head. You can't do any of that.

639
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 3: This is what people have to endure in Oklahoma before

640
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: they're executed.

641
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: While he and war are away to death. The suit

642
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: continued in litigation, and on January thirteenth, twenty fifteen, the

643
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: group of condemned prisoner's petition the US Supreme Court for

644
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: a writ of certieri and stays of their executions, as

645
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: evidenced by other botched executions in Ohio and Arizona. The

646
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: petitioners argued that the medazolam would not numb the pain

647
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: that would be caused by the other two drugs, so

648
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: on January fifteenth, the lead petitioner, Charles Warner, was denied

649
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: a stay and executed later that day over the descent

650
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: of four justices, leaving Richard as the next in line.

651
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: Sister Helen and a bunch of people were there visiting me.

652
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: It was the day before excuded. It was funny because

653
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: Sister Helen came like I seen her head like moving

654
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: up and down in the crowd, and she gave me

655
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: the phone and it was the Vatican, and I got

656
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 3: talked to the Vatican that day and as soon as

657
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 3: I got done. The guards ran everybody out of there

658
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 3: to hey, you got an attorney call. So they set

659
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 3: me down and gave me the phone, and my attorney said,

660
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court just gave you a study, and you

661
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: are now born to Supreme Court against lethal ingestion.

662
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 4: Sister Helen was able to mobilize a lot of people

663
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 4: and put some petitions together, and the Supreme Court, while

664
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 4: they didn't grant a stay for Charles Warner, based on

665
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 4: basically the same information on the lethal injection drug, granted

666
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 4: rich a stay, and so he got to stay about

667
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 4: twenty four hours in advance of his first execution date

668
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 4: to have his case Glossop p Gross go before the

669
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 4: United States Supreme.

670
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: Court, And so there was a whole place on all

671
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 1: executions in Oklahoma until a ruling was made on June

672
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, twenty fifteen, in the last of the Supreme

673
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: Court's term. They ruled five to four against Richard and

674
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: the condemned prisoners, allowing me dazlam as the sedative, and

675
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: Richard's execution date was set for September fifteenth, twenty fifteen,

676
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 1: so thirty five days prior the death ritual began again.

677
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 4: They actually move you to a cell that's about four

678
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 4: cells away from the actual death chamber, and you're in

679
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 4: that cell for a few days, and then they bring

680
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 4: you to the third cell, one closer to the death chamber,

681
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 4: and they leave you there for a few days, and

682
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 4: then they bring you to the second cell, one more

683
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 4: step closer to the death chamber, and then they move

684
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 4: you to the cell next to the death chamber. And

685
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 4: if that's not torture in and of itself, by the

686
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 4: time you get to that final thing, you can see

687
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 4: the people coming and going from the death chamber. You

688
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 4: know what's happening, you know what they're preparing, you know

689
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 4: what they're going to do. And Rich was subject to

690
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 4: that for a long period of time because we ended

691
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 4: up with a stay of execution September fifteenth. He had

692
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 4: already been subjected to that, he'd already been brought to

693
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 4: that final place. It was two hours in advance of

694
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 4: the execution that hit that the second execution was stopped

695
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 4: and then they we.

696
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: Had a two weeks stay so that Rich.

697
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 4: Was moved once again, just back to where he had

698
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: been and to start that whole process over again. So

699
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 4: Rich was subjected to this incredible emotional torture. In advance

700
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 4: of the third execution date, which was set for September

701
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: thirtieth of twenty fifteen.

702
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 3: I was in a lit room for fifty four straight days,

703
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 3: no darkness whatsoever. It's crazy what they put you through.

704
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: They do mock executions in front of you. And I'm

705
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: not trying to compare Oklahoma to ISIS, but it's no

706
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 3: different than what ISIS does to people. When they pull

707
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: somebody out, they put a sword to their neck. They

708
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: actually they're going to chop their head off them and

709
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 3: they stop and they say, oh, we're going to wait

710
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 3: for another day. Put them back in itself, you know.

711
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: I mean, they put the guy back in and bring

712
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 3: him out the next day and keep doing this. I mean,

713
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 3: where do we draw the line at torture, because this

714
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: is torture. My first date, I got to stay the

715
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 3: day before my execution. The second time I got to

716
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 3: stay hours before my execution. The third time I got

717
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: to stay after my execution was supposed to have taken place.

718
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: And these days came with a lot of work. Don

719
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: So for the second one. On September fifteenth, few filed

720
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: motions presenting new evidence, including a July ninety seven psyche

721
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: evaluation showing Sneed was aware of the charges against him

722
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: and that he made no mention of Richard, as well

723
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: as the numerous people Sneed confessed to along the way

724
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: that he had acted alone and saved his own hide

725
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: by implicating Richard. But despite all of that, on September

726
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: twenty eighth, the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals voted three

727
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: to two to proceed with the execution, and the Supreme

728
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: Court also deny to stay. Then the governor granted a

729
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: stay on the thirtieth, citing that Oklahoma, contrary to lethal

730
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: injection drug protocol, had received potassium acetate, a freaking food preservative,

731
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: instead of potassium chloride for the cardiac arrest inducing portion

732
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: of the cocktail. So then Richard got a thirty seven

733
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: day stay to November sixth, twenty fifteen.

734
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 3: And it was interesting when that happened because sister Hillm

735
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 3: was outside the prison and she was saying, it's a

736
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 3: Richard gloss of preservative, because the drug they were going

737
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 3: to use was actually used as a preservative, you know.

738
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 3: But I think the scariest thing about that time was

739
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: when the governor at the time told the first second

740
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: in command, who was there google it when we'd gotten

741
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 3: to a point in a society where we google how

742
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: to execute people? Or is it okay to certain drugs

743
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 3: that execute people? That should just end the destiny by itself.

744
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: It makes no sense to me at all that we

745
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: entrust so many deeply flawed humans with the machinery of death,

746
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: But nevertheless, here we are. So on October first, twenty fifteen,

747
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Prewitt asked the Court of Criminal

748
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: Appeals to issue an indepfinite stay of all executions, citing

749
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: the acquisition of the wrong drugs. Then, on October eighth,

750
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: it was revealed that Charles Warner had been killed using

751
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: potassium acetate, the food preservative, contrary to protocol DAG. Prewitt

752
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 1: then ordered a multi county grand jury investigation, and this

753
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: put a hold on executions in Oklahoma. And with this moratorium,

754
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: the famous documentarian Joe Burlinger, who made Paradise Lost about

755
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: the West Memphis Three, got involved to help uncover more

756
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: evidence and make the incredibly powerful docuseries Killing Richard Glossip

757
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: that we've been referencing.

758
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 5: I'm Joe Berlinger, and I guess they've been talking about

759
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 5: my docuseries killing Richard Glossop. I mean, this case, to

760
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 5: me is the very definition of why there should be

761
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 5: no death penalty. It just demonstrates how easily innocent people

762
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 5: can be put to death. This was a spontaneous act

763
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 5: of a opportunistic robbery that went awry, and all the

764
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 5: evidence suggests that, and no evidence points to Richard Glossop,

765
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 5: even the fact that when they found money on each

766
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 5: of them, the fact that there was blood on the

767
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 5: two thousand dollars that Sneed had in his pocket and

768
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 5: Richard's money had no blood on it. Here, you have

769
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 5: a murder for higher plot. And yet he himself, justin

770
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 5: Snead says in his original statement, and he said it

771
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 5: again to me when I interviewed him, that he never

772
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 5: really intended to kill Barry Bantrees. He just was hoping

773
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 5: to kind of immobilize him. Well, then, how is it

774
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 5: a murder for higher plot? I mean, that very basic

775
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 5: fact makes it impossible to believe his story.

776
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: So the one thing that Sneed has been consistent about

777
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: is that he never meant to kill Barry Van Tries, So,

778
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: through his own repeated admissions, he denies Rich's involvement rich

779
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: was supposed to have ordered him, remember, according to the state,

780
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: to rob and kill Barry. But if he never intended

781
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: to kill Barry, then he could not have been operating

782
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: under Rich's authority. Therefore there was no murder for higher plot.

783
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: Richard could never have been involved. I mean, which, justin Snead,

784
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: are we supposed to believe the Sneed who says Richard

785
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: told me to do it, so I had to do it,

786
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: or the Sneed who never intended to kill Barry Van

787
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: tries despite the alleged quote unquote orders of Richard classip

788
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 1: he can't be both. Not that any of this matters

789
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: to our legal processes, as actual innocence does not entitle

790
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: one to relief according to the United States Supreme Court.

791
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: So don where do we stand now?

792
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 4: So we've got several new witnesses, people that nobody has

793
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 4: ever heard. We know the story now we heard it

794
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 4: from Sneed's mouth through at least two or three witnesses.

795
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 4: We know what happened in this case, and we know

796
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 4: that rich didn't have anything to do with this murder

797
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 4: at all. And so we are ready to go to

798
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 4: the Pardon and Parole Board with this new information. We

799
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 4: would go to court, but we've already been to court

800
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 4: in twenty fifteen. We lost there. There are procedural bars

801
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 4: that are in place to keep us from even getting

802
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 4: a chance to fairly litigate this innocence again. So right

803
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 4: now the state of Oklahoma is set to once again

804
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 4: begin the process of killing people. There is an end

805
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 4: to the current lawsuit that's going on with Rich's name

806
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 4: on it.

807
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: Again.

808
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 4: It's the successor of a glass be gross And once

809
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 4: the court makes a ruling on the protocol that they

810
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 4: know how to kill somebody with whatever drug they use,

811
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 4: they're going to go ahead and begin to set dates

812
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 4: once again. And we don't know if Rich will be first.

813
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 4: He doesn't have to be first, but he was last up.

814
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 4: It's entirely possible that he will be the first one

815
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 4: set for execution, and that could take place sometime in

816
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: the late summer.

817
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: The worst case scenario, they could set a date on

818
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 3: July first.

819
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say anymore. His fate

820
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,760
Speaker 1: has essentially been determined, barring action from the parle board

821
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: and the executive branch, but his legal fate has been

822
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: sealed because of technical considerations.

823
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 4: In twenty fifteen, we had two judges who based upon

824
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 4: the evidence we had then, which is a shadow of

825
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 4: the evidence that we have now at that point in time,

826
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 4: two judges said we want to give this guy hearing

827
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: on his innocence claim, but three judges said we won't

828
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 4: simply because of finality of judgment. That was their whole point.

829
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 4: That's the Court's point is we can't let this go

830
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 4: on forever. We're going to stop it. Like you said,

831
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 4: innocence doesn't matter.

832
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: That's the legal posture that we face today.

833
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: Right that awful decision was Herrera versus Collins in nineteen

834
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: ninety three, where the Supreme Court said what I just said,

835
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: evidence of innocence is not enough to stop the wheels

836
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: of justice from turning and in this case, turning right

837
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: into a state sponsored murder of an innocent man named

838
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: Richard Class.

839
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 3: I'm asking everybody to go to say Richard Blosso dot com,

840
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 3: to sign the petitions that we have, but to also

841
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: participate in everything that we're doing to try to bring

842
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 3: justice reforms so that we can prevent this from happening

843
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: to other people. This isn't always about one person, and

844
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 3: that's what I've always tried to make clear.

845
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 2: The people.

846
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 3: This is about many innocent people who are facing what

847
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 3: I'm facing, and I don't want them to face it.

848
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 3: I don't want them to go through what I went through.

849
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 3: We got to stand up as a society. We have

850
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: to stand up as some people. We have to stand

851
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 3: up and say, hey, we're not going to tolerate this anymore.

852
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: We gotta change this. We got to prevent in executed,

853
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: and we got to open people's eyes to why this

854
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: is such a bornbaric practice and why it should no

855
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 3: longer take place.

856
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: Go to save Richard glossip dot com. We'll also have

857
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: links in the bio for action steps that you can take,

858
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: and you know, with that, I want to turn it

859
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: over to YouTube. Guys, thank you for being here with

860
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: us today and spreading the word about this awful injustice.

861
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: And well, now we turn to what we call closing arguments.

862
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: This is a section of the show where I turned

863
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: my microphone off, take back of my chair, leave my

864
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: headphones on, close my eyes, and just listen to whatever

865
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: you have to say that we may have left out,

866
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 1: or anything you want to share with our audience. So, Richard,

867
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: we're going to save you for last, and let don

868
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: go first. And again, Richard, I just want you to

869
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: know we're all out here thinking about you. So many

870
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: people are praying for you, and we hope to see

871
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: you free before too long. Over to you, Don.

872
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Jason. I really appreciate you taking the

873
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 4: time to shine a light on this terrible case and

874
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 4: this terrible injustice that we are hoping to stop with

875
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: a hearing.

876
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: Later this year.

877
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 4: Richard Glossop a simple guy who was in love with

878
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 4: a young woman. Richard loved his job at the best

879
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: budget in loved Barry Van Trees. They had a great relationship.

880
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 4: Rich never took any money from Barry van Trees, and

881
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 4: Verry respected Rich. And a terrible murder took place that

882
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 4: rich did not have anything at all to do with,

883
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 4: and the wheels of justice began to turn in Oklahoma

884
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 4: City the way that they did back in those days

885
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 4: with Bob Macy, and those wheels just simply ran over

886
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 4: rich Blossop. He was a victim of very very poor lawyering,

887
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 4: of over aggressive police work, of over aggressive prosecutors who

888
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 4: only cared about one thing, and that was getting a

889
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 4: conviction and getting a death sentence. Because that was the

890
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 4: culture of Oklahoma City. At the time, there was a

891
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,919
Speaker 4: series of three letters to the current District Attorney, David Prater.

892
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 4: We have requested a lot of substantive information that we

893
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 4: believe would prove that rich Glossop had nothing to do

894
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 4: with this, and we have received no answers. We continue

895
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 4: to wait for David Prater. So at this point in time,

896
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 4: we're preparing for a clemency hearing that we know will

897
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 4: take place later this year, and we are hoping that

898
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 4: people will go to say Richard Glossop dot com. You

899
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 4: can find a petition there to the governor and the

900
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 4: Partner Parole Board, letting those people know that this is wrong,

901
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 4: what's happening, and that the only way to write it

902
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 4: is to grant rich clemency and allow us to get

903
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 4: back into court again.

904
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: What were you, Rich?

905
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 3: You know, when I walked in and I took that

906
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 3: first step on agent on death row, I said that

907
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 3: I have two choices. I can make peace with death

908
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 3: or I can let it destroy me. And so I

909
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 3: made peace with death right then and there, and I

910
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: just said, I'm not going to let it destroy me.

911
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 3: I'm going to be the same person I was and

912
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 3: I am to this day. I sing in my cell

913
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 3: out loud, I laughed. I dance around and guards are

914
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 3: always freaking out because I'm the way that I am.

915
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 3: And I told them, I said, you know, I was

916
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 3: a happy guy my whole life, and I'm not going

917
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 3: to let this change who I am because we only

918
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: have one life to live and it's a gift. And

919
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to celebrate life no matter where the hell

920
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 3: I'm at, even in this hole, I'm going to celebrate life.

921
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 3: I've heard so many stories about people who lost it

922
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 3: down on atunit, and I've seen it for myself. I've

923
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: witnessed it myself, and there are a lot of people

924
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 3: with serious mental health issues because you're isolated for years

925
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 3: and years and years, and it's yeah, it's hard. And thankfully,

926
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: you know, I had my art. I've written songs. I've

927
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 3: written so many poems. I've written a book which I

928
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: can't wait to get get out there to people because

929
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 3: it's a book of hope. It's a book of showing

930
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 3: people that you do have more strengthen you know, and

931
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: you can take your courage and you can move forward

932
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 3: and you can have hope at the end. And I

933
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 3: describe the three execution attempt I describe everything because I

934
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 3: want people to know, no matter how bad things get,

935
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 3: there is always something good that will come from the

936
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: worst situations you face in life. You just got to

937
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 3: fight for it and you've got to make sure it happens.

938
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: So it's we're in a fight. We're in a big

939
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 3: fight with legislators and people in the state of Oklahoma

940
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 3: who are standing up saying we need to prevent this,

941
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 3: and hopefully we can succeed because I do have a

942
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 3: lot more like lift and I do have a lot

943
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 3: more battle to raise again, the destinility. Look at what's

944
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 3: happening here in Oklahoma, one of the biggest Republican states

945
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 3: in the country, and you have Republicans now standing up

946
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 3: saying we're not going to tolerate this anymore. We're not

947
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 3: going to kill innocent people. I'm proud of Legislator mcdogle

948
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: and Legislator Humphrey, and you know, even the local businessman

949
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 3: justin Jackson. I'm really proud of these people because they're

950
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 3: diehard conservative and yet they're standing up for innocence because

951
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 3: it's not a left thing and it's not a right thing.

952
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: It's an innocent thing. And we've got to stop using

953
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 3: politics in justice reform. We all want the right things.

954
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 3: If we don't, then you shouldn't be an office. We

955
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: all want fair, we all want justice, and that's why

956
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 3: I've always said that take the blindfold off of Lady Justice,

957
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 3: because that's one of the days that's always weirded me

958
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 3: out over the years, because you're saying, well, she's bye

959
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 3: sold fold us so she can be fair. How can

960
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 3: you be fair if you can't see what's going on.

961
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 3: So take the by and hold off the letters, see

962
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 3: what's going on, and she'll see how fair justice really

963
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: is in that country.

964
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.

965
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the

966
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help.

967
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff

968
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: Cliburn and Kevin Warnis. The music on the show, as always,

969
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be

970
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and

971
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason

972
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and

973
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company. Number one,