1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stop? Mom? Never Told You? 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: From housetop works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: This is Molly and I'm Kristin Kristin Jday. Our subject 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: is guns, and it's impossible to think about women and 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: guns without taking a little trip back through time to 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: visit old Annie Oakley. Annie Oakley, shop shooter of the 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Wild West. Let's talk a little bit about her, because 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: she's pretty cool. She's very cool. She's barely a hair 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: over five feet tall, and yet she could shoot your 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: eye out, I know. And she she was very much 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: a self made woman, had a very hard childhood. Um, 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: her father died, her mother had no money, and she 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: realized that she had this skill talked to her by 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: her father before he died when she was six, So 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: he was teaching very young girl how to shoot a gun. Um. 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: But she realized she was really good at it, and 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: so she started entering turkey hunts and she got banned 19 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: because she was winning so many and you know, it's 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: even then it was such a stereotypically male sport. Um, 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: and she met a man named Frank Butler, who was 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: assumed to be the greatest shot of all time. Old 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: Annie just shoots him right off the stage. She shows 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: him what's what, and Frank Butler actually ended up becoming 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: Mr Annie Oakley true down the road. And uh, as 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: you all know, she was eventually hired for the Wild 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: Wist Show. And at that point there were no other 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: acts in the Wild West Show that incorporated women. And 29 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: Annie Oakley was so good, but of course she was 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: admitted to it. She rose to the top of the 31 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: marquee and you know, scholars who look at her life 32 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: at that time say that it was a very unique 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: marriage of the time because uh, Frank kind of took 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: a backseat, became her manager, you know, scheduled appointments, took 35 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: care of her guns, whereas Annie was sort of the star, 36 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: went out, would do all her fancy gun tricks and 37 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: had the starring role in the relationship. Yes, and while 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: Annie Oakley was a very good shooter, she was also 39 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: a very savvy marketer. Because we should also know that 40 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: this is during the Victorian era, and um, she had 41 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: to carefully craft her image to appeal to largely male 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: audiences and yet not alienate, you know, women in families. 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: You know, she didn't want to become some sexy, sharp shooter. 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: But at the same time, she wanted to take advantage 45 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: of the fact that there were men in the audience. 46 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: So she designed her costumes to be fairly form footing, 47 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: to show off her curves and an athlete. She was 48 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: an athlete, and yet they were demure. They were so 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: she could sell as many tickets as possible. But you know, 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: scholars will look at that now and say that she 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: knew she was in this very male sport, and so 52 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: this was a way to make a female who was 53 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: great at it more audience friendly, so that a man 54 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't walk out just totally intimidated by this, and the 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: woman wouldn't walk out being like she's not a woman 56 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: at all. She wanted to keep that feminine edge to 57 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: her performances. Now, the interesting thing, too, is that during 58 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: this time it's also the beginning of the suffrage movement. 59 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: And while Annie Oakley was very adamant about women, you know, 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: learning how to shoot guns like she did, she taught 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: plenty of women how to shoot. She thought it was 62 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: a great thing. She did not speak out on behalf 63 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: of the suffrage movement. She was opposed to it from 64 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: what we can tell. And it's just it's very interesting 65 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: because when war started breaking out, she wrote to presidents 66 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, I will train a squadron of 67 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: women that we can send off to this war. But yeah, 68 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: she didn't believe that women should have the right to vote. 69 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: And there was a program on PBS a few years ago, 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: the American Experience, which kind of dived into this contradiction 71 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: in her beliefs, and uh, one scholar thought it was 72 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: a pretty crafty move if you think about what a 73 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: great marketer she was. You know, she was already breaking 74 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: so many stereotypes that to come out as also for 75 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: for the right of women to vote just would have 76 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: been too controversial, would have alienated her audience. And then 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: the others were just kind of perplexed that it really 78 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: was something that she should have been behind and wasn't. Yeah, 79 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: someone so groundbreaking professionally and yet so socially conservative. But 80 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: speaking of being socially conservative only, I think that this 81 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: is a good time to point out that the point 82 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: of this podcast today is not to go over pro 83 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: gun rights versus anti gun rights. Second Amendment etcetera. We're 84 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: gonna let well, let other people hash that out. We 85 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: more want to dissect this idea of women and guns 86 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: because while we have Antiochley, you know, back in the day, Um, 87 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: I think that it's fair to say that women and 88 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: guns is kind of a difficult issue because I don't know, 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: I think there's a a lot of cultural implications with 90 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: the idea of a woman owning a gun. Um. A 91 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: lot of times in public opinion polls, women will come 92 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: out as far more anti gun than men will. And 93 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, there's this whole concept 94 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: of well, should we own guns anyway to protect ourselves? 95 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: Is it the great equalizer? Right? We've got a lot 96 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: of commentators that we're gonna get into a bit later 97 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: who say that gun ownership is a feminist issue. So 98 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: we're going to figure out if there's any truth to that, 99 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: why that argument can be made. And I think that 100 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: if we're going to unpack this imagery of a woman 101 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 1: with a gun, we've got to go back to adds 102 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: of late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, just sort of 103 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: around when Annie Oakley is its a little bit at 104 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: her peak. How did they sell guns to women at 105 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: that point. It wasn't like be like Annie Oakley. That 106 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: is not the angle that these advertisers took. Now, the 107 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: idea of a woman and a gun back in the 108 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds was not revolutionary 109 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,559 Speaker 1: at all. It wouldn't have been controversial because in fact, Molly. 110 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: According to Laura Browder, who wrote a book about women 111 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: and guns, The History of Women and Guns, she points 112 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: out that trap shooting was the first sport open to 113 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: women on equal terms. It was marketed as something as 114 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: female friendly as say, going shopping or dining out with 115 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: your friends. Right, And so a lot of the ads 116 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 1: take up that you know, ordinariness of of a woman 117 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: trap shooting, so that the guns are pictured with the women. 118 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: Women are wearing clothes of the day, a skirt, hat, 119 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: they've killed a fox. It doesn't there's no mention in 120 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: the ad copy of hey, this woman is crazy she 121 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: shot a fox, and a revolutionary it was, you know, 122 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: it was the norm. So there was nothing special about 123 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: this ad in terms of it having a woman in it. Yeah, 124 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: And you would have gun ads even featuring little girls 125 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: curled up with their guns and their hunting dog, you know, 126 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: I mean it was a it was a gender neutral activity. 127 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: But then after the nineteen twenties, and I would think 128 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: along with World War One, in World War Two, we 129 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: see a shift in the advertising from guns in the 130 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: hands of women, you guns in the hands of men. 131 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: And you know that makes sense. Men were the ones 132 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: who are going to fight these wars that were largely 133 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: fought with guns. Uh. There were some ads from the 134 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: time of World War One that showed a man teaching 135 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: his wife how to use a gun while he was gone. 136 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: So that's the first example we have of guns as protection. 137 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: But by the time that World War Two was over, 138 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: the forties and fifties, the sixties, we've got women not 139 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: handling guns and ads at all. No, women and wives 140 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: and others are more looking adoring lee at their husband, 141 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: their protect her husband and their sons. Who are you know, 142 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: either bringing home something that they just shot and killed 143 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: that maybe she will dress and prepare for dinner. I 144 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: don't know, or um there was an ad of a 145 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: family on a picnic where the wives and mothers are 146 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: setting out the food and the boys are off shooting, 147 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: shooting baby guns or something. Um. Now in the sixties 148 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: we've got this idea perpetuated in the fifties of males 149 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: being the ones who shoot things. Uh so, trying to 150 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: sell the guns to men obviously. So in the sixties 151 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: you've got women in scantily clad attire with the gun. Yes, 152 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: because if we've established the gun by this point as 153 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: a man's toy, then it makes sense that savvy advertisers 154 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: who want to attract men's attention to their merchandise just 155 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: put in the hands of a bikini clad woman a 156 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: buck some lady. Yes, all right. And the eighties is 157 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: the big turning point that will lead us enter our 158 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: conversation today. These are the first ads, the kind of 159 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: echo the ones that were there in World War One, 160 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: the first ass that say, if you want to protect 161 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: your family ladies, and of course you do because you're 162 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: good mothers, or if you're a single woman and want 163 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: to protect yourself, which of course you do because it's 164 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: an unsafe world, then you need a gun for your 165 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: own protection. And then into the early nine nineties, the 166 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: National Rifle Association really tries to brush up its image 167 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: toward women and launches a magazine specifically for women called 168 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: Women's look Um, and in its ads trying to UM 169 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: get more women into its ranks. It frames this idea 170 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: of female gun ownership in abortion terms, which is kind 171 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: of an interesting marketing tactic it is, and it has, 172 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, big pluses and big negatives, I think. But 173 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: you often hear abortion described in terms of choice, and 174 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: what they did is they took the exact same word 175 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: choice and said you need to have the choice to 176 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: own a gun and protect yourself. It's it's claiming as 177 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: much control over your body as the right to an abortionist. 178 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: But since we generally associate guns and violence, a number 179 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: of people have said that making that correlation is very dangerous. 180 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: Trying to make that relationship between you know, choice of 181 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: a gun choice of an abortion is a tricky relationship 182 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: to try to build. Now, Critics of the of this language, 183 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: the way that these guns have been sold have said that, 184 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, gun mind factors only, praying on a culture 185 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: of fear, that women are scared to God alone, women 186 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: are scared to be attacked. Every man is a potential predator. UM. 187 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: It really puts us in the position of being victims, 188 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: constant victims, which is why they would argue that gun 189 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: ownership is a feminist choice because you eliminate that victim's status. 190 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: But you know then you can it's can go on 191 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: a continual circle about what made you feel like a 192 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: victim in the first place. Was it a really scary 193 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: gun ad um? But we'll get into that later. The 194 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: question is if they're going to sell us a gun 195 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: for the purpose of protection, we've got to argue, We've 196 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: got to see is it actually protecting us? Yes, And 197 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: the statistics on this are divided. I think we could 198 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: say some studies have come out saying yes, absolutely gun 199 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: ownership lowers rates of violence, and other studies have said 200 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: absolutely not. If you own a gun, you are more 201 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: likely to be shocked by a gun. So we will 202 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: look at both sides. First step, we've got Dr John 203 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: are a Lot who did pretty famous study about called 204 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: more guns, Less Crime, and he found that after states 205 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: expand their right to carry law or loosen their gun 206 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: regulations and restrictions, there is less crime. For example, if 207 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: based on his data, if New York City had adopted 208 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: a right to carry l he estimated there will be 209 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: one hundred fewer murders a year, three hundred fewer rapes, 210 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: five thousand fewer aggravated assaults, and nine thousand fewer robberies, 211 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: and that was after the law had been in effect 212 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: for five years. Yeah, he actually estimates an eight four 213 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: percent drop in the rate at which multiple victims shootings 214 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: occur once a state passes a right to carry law. 215 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: And he thinks that women don't even have to know 216 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: how to use their gun necessarily. It's just if you 217 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 1: are attacked and a woman shows a gun, that will 218 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: be enough to make an attack or run away, give up. 219 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: And um. More recently in the New York Times, there 220 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: was this kind of tongue in cheek but along the 221 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: same lines argument that if all women had guns, then 222 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: there wouldn't be crime at all, because you know, if 223 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: you're on let's say a subway and you're gonna mug 224 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: a woman, you know that every other woman on that 225 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: train has a gun, So what are your odds there? Well, 226 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: and his point, the point that Randy Cohen, who wrote this, 227 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: was trying to make, was if you restrict gun ownership 228 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: to women only, then you will see crime race drop drastically, because, 229 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: first of all, um, if you look at homicides and 230 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: crimes committed with guns, more often than not overwhelmingly it 231 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: is a man who is perpetrating the crimes, and um, 232 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: like you said, yeah, if men know that women are 233 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: gonna be packing heat, they are not gonna come around. 234 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: And lots saying that if you know, if anyone on 235 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: the street could have a gun, male or a female, 236 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna reduce the risk of someone else coming up 237 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: with a gun and trying to overpower you. And can 238 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: I just toss out a figure please from Cohen's blog, 239 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: Molly that kind of blew my mind a little bit. 240 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: Give it to me. Two hundred million privately owned guns 241 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: in the United States. Yeah, that we know of. So 242 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: the big question is for those two hundred million people 243 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: out there who own all those baretta's, Well, some people 244 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: could own multiple guns. Oh yeah. But for that, for 245 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: those gun owners out there, I should say, are they 246 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: more protected? Are they getting their money's worth? So a 247 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: lot would say yes, but we have a few studies, 248 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: one from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and 249 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: one from the Violence Policy Policy Center that would say no. Uh. 250 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: The u PEN study found that people with a gun 251 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: for four point five times more likely to be shot 252 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: in an assault than those not possessing a gun. This 253 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: is from a two thousand nine study. Uh, so they're 254 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: saying that while it is possible to successfully defend yourself 255 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: with the gun, more likely than not, uh, your chances 256 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: of success are low because it seems like a lot 257 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: of times if you're someone wielding a gun, you are 258 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: automatically in more dangerous situations that is going to attract 259 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: some kind of violence to you. And piggybacking off of that, 260 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: the Violence Policy Center examined whether or not women use 261 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: handguns to as a self defense to kill people who 262 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: are who are coming at them, and they say that 263 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: that is a very rare occurrence. And that might be 264 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: because a lot of times when women are murdered with guns, 265 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: it is not by a stranger coming up to them 266 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: on the street, kind of like with with dating violence 267 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: and things like that, it's actually someone they know, an 268 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: intimate associate. Yeah, the statistic that kind of blew my mind. 269 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: From the Violence Policy Center, and obviously you can probably 270 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: tell from the name that they probably have an agenda. 271 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: But based on the numbers they've come up with from 272 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: all the states in for every time a woman used 273 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: a handgun to kill in self defense, a hundred and 274 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: one women were murdered with a handgun. So they're saying 275 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: that if you're if your agenda is self defense, then 276 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: it's unlikely that you will be able to kill. It's 277 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: more likely that you will be killed in the meantime. 278 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: And that kind of makes sense. Like, let's say you're 279 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: you're a single woman, and you're bringing a gun into 280 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: your house in terms of self defense. If it if 281 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: it is true that you're more likely to be hurt 282 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: by someone who you know, a boyfriend, UM, an ex spouse, 283 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: they probably know where the gun is. So that's the 284 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: argument that the Violence Policy Center makes is if you 285 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: are going to bring a gun in your home, consider 286 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: whether it's actually going to be used useful because it's 287 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: more likely that it could be used against you. Well, 288 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: And isn't it slightly ironic though, that we are, you know, 289 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: making the best case scenario of a woman murdering someone 290 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: else who is attacking her. I mean, it's still kind 291 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: of like, I think that points out the diceiness of 292 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: this issue. It's like the lesser of two evils. I 293 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: guess someone's still someone's still dying either way. Yeah, but 294 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: you know that's the thing that you know, if we 295 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: want to circle back to whether this is a great equalizer. 296 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: Some would argue that that man is not going to 297 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: have those qualms that you just had Christ and if 298 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: he wants to hurt you, he's gonna hurt you. And 299 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: the fact that we have to think twice about whether 300 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: we want to hurt them if that is the best 301 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: case scenario. Those critics would argue that that's an example 302 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: of how we as women have been trained to think 303 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: that guns are mail and violence is mail, and we 304 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: have no choice in the matter that we are. You know, 305 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: we are accepting our weaker sex position, which is why 306 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: I think we have to point out. Some people have 307 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: said that guns should be a feminist issue, and this 308 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: includes Megan mccartell who writes in The Atlantic Monthly, and 309 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: she says, and this is a quote, guns are the 310 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: only weapon that equal as a strength between the attacker 311 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: and the attack. It's the only time when the man's 312 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: greater speed, strength, UM and longer reach make no difference. 313 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: If you pull the trigger first, you win. And she says, 314 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: I'm all for strengthening the social contract um so that 315 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: if you're mean create, commit rape, assault or robbery. But 316 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: until human nature has improved so radically, the grievous bodily 317 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: harm has passed from living memory. I don't understand why 318 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: more feminists don't push for widespread gun ownership. And like 319 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: we said, Molly, this isn't you, and I don't want to, 320 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: you know, get into some pro anti gun conversation, but 321 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: framed from a feminist perspective, I think mccarnel does make 322 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: an interesting point, right, And that's something that's echoed by 323 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: conservative commentator Laura Ingram, who argues that gun ownership is 324 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: the one area in which a woman is trying to 325 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: make strides with men by having as many guns as 326 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: he does. Since men do own more guns in this country, 327 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: it's the only area in which when a woman tries 328 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: to become equal with men, feminists don't stand up an 329 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: applaud In fact, they criticized woman. And just generally speaking, 330 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: I think that we should point out that, um, you know, 331 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: women are usually in favor of more gun control than 332 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: men are. And then if you look at the demographic 333 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: breakdown of gun ownership in the US, um it's about 334 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: ten women and men. So s guns are in the 335 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: hands of men far more often than women, even though, 336 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: according to svey from the National Shooting Sports Foundation. Gun 337 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: retailers saw a seventy jump in female customers last year, 338 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: so they're trying to make the case that there are 339 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: more women buying guns. Yeah, and they are trying to 340 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: market guns more to women. We've seen things like, you know, 341 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: pink candled guns, smaller guns, especially designed for women that 342 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: don't have as much kickback, fashionable holsters. Fashionable holsters. I 343 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: have been looking for a fashionable hole sur for my 344 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: for my glock for so long. Um that was joke. Um. Yeah, 345 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: I mean they're they're obviously trying to push this. I mean, 346 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: and I think, Molly, this is one thing that we 347 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: haven't mentioned yet. I mean, they want to move guns 348 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: off the shelf, so of course they're going to target women. 349 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: It's kind of like when we were talking in the 350 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: podcast about women in cars. There comes there came a 351 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: point where the male market with cars was so saturated 352 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: that if course they need a two car households and 353 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: you know, push push cars to women and mothers and 354 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: wives and whoever to get around so that they could 355 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: simply move more cars off the lot. So I think, 356 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: while yes, I mean, there is this argument for protection, 357 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: at the same time, we can't forget that these are 358 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: businesses that are marketing towards us. So we've given a 359 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: little bit of airtime to this one side, that a 360 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: gun is an equalizer. The flip side, we've referenced it before, 361 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: is just that these gun makers are businesses, as Kristen said, 362 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: and they're in the business of making you afraid. That 363 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: the reason that you do think that a gun would 364 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: protect you from attack is that you there are gun 365 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: ads that essentially show a beaten up woman who says, 366 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: where was you know, where were the police? They're not 367 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: going to protect me. I need a gun, um, And 368 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: you know that may be the case. That might happen, 369 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: but it may not. So you're you're basically betting on fear. Yeah, 370 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: are we breeding a culture of fear, which is, you know, 371 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: not a great way to live. And also, I would 372 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: think something that um is not exactly in line with 373 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: feminist ideology as well. Women don't need to live out 374 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: of fear and live out of a victim mentality that 375 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: all we should, you know, be able to walk safely 376 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: wherever we want to go, whether or not we're um, 377 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, pack and heat or not. So I think 378 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: that leads us into this question of you know, would 379 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: it be better if we just got rid of guns entirely? 380 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: You know, because a lot of uh, like I mentioned, um, 381 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: public survey polls usually show that women in general favor 382 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: more gun control than men do. But some men would 383 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: say that women are simply afraid of guns because they're 384 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: afraid of men. Yes, let's talk about this guy named 385 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: Richard Poe who wrote a book called The Seven Myths 386 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: of Gun Control, and he talks about how, you know, 387 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: guns are this ultimate male symbol. So the fact that 388 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: women are largely in favor of gun control is a 389 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: sign of an anti male agenda. Yes, I mean, at 390 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: this point we could get into symbolism of the guns 391 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: symbolizing the phallic uh, you know, all of these male 392 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: associated images when it has to do with guns, and um, 393 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: some men say that by by limiting their access to 394 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: guns is a form of castration, right, um. And I 395 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: mean I don't want to get too into post quotes 396 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: because on the one hand, they seemed just ridiculous, But 397 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: I guess if you want to think about symbolism, it 398 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: makes sense that you know, they're saying, oh, if if 399 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: a gun makes a man a warrior, and you take 400 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: away his gun. Have you emasculated him and weakened him 401 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: so that you can be this ral Ralph feminist who 402 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: takes over the world. That's that's the quote taken to 403 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: an extreme. He didn't say that, so that's more of 404 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: a paraphrase. Yes, it was a bit of a paraphrase 405 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: on my part. A paraphrase. But well, I think as 406 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: as kind of extreme as pose argument, at least framed 407 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: in your words, may sound, I do think that it 408 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: brings us to the point that underscores the fact that 409 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: no matter which side of the gun argument that you 410 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: fall on, whether you're pro or anti gun control, um, 411 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: it's still somehow framed in these gendered terms in which 412 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: more gun control implies taking guns away from men, and 413 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: extended gun rights means enfranchising women. Because that's the way 414 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: that it has been advertised, and it has been debated 415 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: and politicize up to this point. And I think by 416 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: the fact that um, we it keeps coming back to 417 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: men versus women with guns, um, and all of the 418 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: implications with violence, who's the victim, who's the perpetrator, all 419 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: of this, it only complicates the issue and in an 420 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: already complex problem, you know, a complex topic to debate. 421 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: So that's why at this point we want to hear 422 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: from our esteemed listeners, gun owners, gun haters, gun who 423 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: doesn't care about Nothing's I can't wait, from the skeet shooters, 424 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: anti Oakley wannabes, water gun shooters. Let's hear your thoughts, paintballers, paintballers. Yes, 425 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: let's hear your thoughts about this, uh mom stuff, how 426 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: stuff works? Dot com is our address, and in the meantime, 427 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: while you're typing up your frenzied email to that address, 428 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: let's hear what some other people have written in sem 429 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: Me one from Marcia, and this one manages to merge 430 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: our recent children's literature podcasts and our tattoo podcast excellent 431 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: two for the price of one. Marcia writes, I have 432 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: lots of and enjoy both books and tattoos. Personally, I 433 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: feel as though tattoos are works have self expression to 434 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: fit the ideals, preferences, and lives of those who they 435 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: belong to. The ones I have are all thought out 436 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: well in advance and represent things I feel strongly enough 437 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: about to have in my by the rest of my life. 438 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: One is a stack of books. Here's here's the merge 439 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: of the two. One is a stack of books on 440 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: the outside of my leg, complete with my favorite authors represented. 441 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: Another is a small snail with the word keep next 442 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: to it, on the inside of my right wrist, on 443 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: the same leg as the stack of books. I have 444 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: Star Girl. You ask for influential literary feminists while she 445 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: is mine. I first read Stargirl by Jerry Spinelli when 446 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: I was about fifteen. It's about a home school girl 447 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: who gets put into public school and figured about me. Mother. 448 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: Have you read star Girl? I wrote star Girl? Okay, sorry. 449 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: It's about a homeschool girl who gets put into public 450 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: school in the tenth grade. She has never been tainted 451 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: by cliques and popularity of other girls in school, so 452 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: she is wholly unique. It's an amazing story and made 453 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: me want to change who I was to be more 454 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: true to myself. It may not be child literature and 455 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: more like young adult, but it definitely affected me in 456 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: high school and real quick. Marcia's reading list is Hitchhiker's 457 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, nine four by 458 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: George Orwell, The Hunger Games by Susanne Collins, and Anything 459 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: She Can Get a hold Of by Chris It for more. Well, 460 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: I have a reading list here from Katie to follow 461 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: up on that, and Katie's reading list has a theme 462 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: I like this um, she says, I decided to tackle 463 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: some books on marriage. My fiance and I both come 464 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: from divorced families, and we were unshared marriage for a 465 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: long time, but after five years of living together, we 466 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: decided to just go for it and see what all 467 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: the fuss is about. I'm not really interested in books 468 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: on how to have a great marriage, quote unquote, but 469 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: stories from the trenches, so to speak, and maybe some 470 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: thoughts on how to reconcile my ideas of what it 471 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: means to be both a feminist and a wife. I 472 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: just finished Committed by Elizabeth Gilbert, and I could really 473 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: relate to her skepticism of marriage with a willingness to 474 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: ultimately take the plunge. Next next up is Manhood for 475 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: Amateurs by Michael Shaban for the male perspective, then Bad 476 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: Mother by Isolet Waldman, and then she has Cleaving by 477 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: Julie Powell and I do, but I don't buy Cammy 478 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: wick Off Your is marriage a good investment? Podcasts fit 479 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: nicely into all of this, so thing for that and 480 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: you'll welcome so again. If you want to send us 481 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: an email, the address is mom Stuff at how stuff 482 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: works dot com. If you have any thoughts you would 483 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: like to send our way during the week, go ahead 484 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: and hit over to our Twitter, head over to our Facebook. 485 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: We're putting more reading lists on Twitter and Facebook. Yes, essentially, 486 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: you'll never be able to turn around and not see 487 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: a reading list from us, so you'll have plenty of 488 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: ideas for things to read on your summer vacations. I 489 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: hope you have a summer vacation coming up, and you 490 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: know what else you could read on your summer vacation 491 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 1: is our blog stuff Mom Never Told You, which is 492 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: as always located at how stuff works dot com. For 493 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, does it 494 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more how stuff works, 495 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot 496 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: com home page. Brought to you by the reinvented two 497 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you