WEBVTT - Those We’ve Left Behind (with Shaka Senghor & Teresa Hodge) 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.119 Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritune Day, a podcast 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.440 that reimagined citizen as a verb, not a legal status. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.680 This season is all about tech and how it can 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:16.000 bring us together instead of tearing us apart. We're bringing 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.720 you the people using technology for so much more than 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:23.000 revenue and user growth. They're using it to help us citizen. 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.280 During this season, we've talked to some of the true 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.320 tech o g s who are out here trying to 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.800 promote the narrative that tech can help US citizen. But 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.960 for this final episode, we really wanted to talk to 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:43.640 someone who was coming at tech from a completely different perspective, honestly, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.360 almost a different world. We were close with R. G. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.040 Tongue trust me like I like you thought she was 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.519 from a different planet, but I've confirmed that the Digital 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.360 Minister of Taiwan does indeed live here on Earth with us. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.840 In a world that already leaves so many behind. We 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.200 wanted to focus on those who are intentionally kept out 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:09.119 of the technological loop, because if I learned anything from 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.200 my conversation with Crystal, it's that rewiring systems to benefit 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.080 the many, not the few, well that can still leave 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:22.600 out the few. And we can't citizen until everyone can citizen. 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.600 And that brings me to our first guest of this 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:34.160 final episode. I met him back in when I got 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.400 invited to Detroit by none other than the M I T. 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.640 Media left. They were collaborating with folks in the city 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.480 on some kind of design workshop to help with the 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.919 city's renewal, and I didn't have a lot of history 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.560 with Detroit. In fact, I had no history with Detroit. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:02:00.320 So I show up to this gathering maybe it's twenty pool, 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.520 and it's different types of people. There's techie people who 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.320 have clearly been doing tech a long time, there's designing people, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.880 there's entrepreneurs, and there's detroit people who clearly lived in 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:16.239 Detroit a long time. And this eclectic mix of folks 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.000 was broken out into groups to help solve some problems. 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.840 Even in that mix of people, even with all that diversity, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.840 I just laid out one dude stood out. He had dreadlocks, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.519 he had swag, he had a presence that was really undeniable, 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:39.040 and that dude was shock a single what's up, bro, 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.959 what's going on? Man? Super excited to see where we 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.720 got going today? Me too. I love that the way 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.799 we hang out is on the podcast This is Good. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:54.120 This is Good. I want to start with you introducing 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.440 yourself to people out there who might not know much 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.880 about you. Well, first of all, I just think so 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.000 much for having me on on. My name is Shaka 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.480 san Gore. I am a writer. I am a dad, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.080 which is like the favorite title I hold. I'm also 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.320 a tech executive at a company called Trip Accidents based 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:16.720 out a Paula. Also, so my official title is head 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.480 of Diversity, Quality and Inclusiveness. My real title is Director 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.359 of Dopeness, because that's the only thing that I want 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:28.040 to do is do dope stuff with dope people. I 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.440 love that you. I love the way you introduce yourself 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:36.680 and this wide variety of titles, and a while ago 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:38.560 in your life, the idea that you would be a 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.040 tech execut might not have made that list. Just how 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:46.040 does that feel right now? It's incredible at this point. 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:51.080 You know, when you think back on my journey, you know, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:52.960 a kid growing up in each Troy, growing up in 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.080 the tough household, and to get caught up in that 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.520 culture and experience all the horrors that come with it, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.240 you know, childhood friend being murder, being robbed, the gunpoint 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.920 being beat nearly to death, three years later being shot, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.840 and then sixteen months after that shooting and tragically causing 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.520 the man's death and subsequently being sentenced to seventeen and 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.159 forty years in prison. Yeah, tech probably wasn't the thing 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.080 that would come to mind for most people. I served 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.000 a total of nineteen years, seven of those years in 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.240 solitary confinement. And what a lot of people don't know 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.720 about my life as they see it now is that 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.679 a lot of the things really kind of took shape 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.880 and solitary confinement when I begin to write out a 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.039 new way of looking at life and kind of giving 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:51.480 myself permission to dream big. During my Detroit visit, Shaka's 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.960 role was as an ambassador to Detroit, but not only that, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.520 he was a reminder that any solution has to involve 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.159 the people closest to the problem, that a city like 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.360 Detroit wasn't just some blank slate, but have people who 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.720 have been living there for decades and generations that needed 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.680 to be included in the process. A year later, Shaka 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.640 and I would meet again, this time as formal directors 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.240 fellows at the m I T Media Lab, a program 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.120 that connected academia to the real world, challenging the notion 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.520 of what it means to be an expert by bringing 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.400 together people from all kinds of backgrounds of talking chess, 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.599 grand masters and movie makers and regenerative gardeners, all to 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:39.720 address various pressing issues. Shaka has since written six books, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.159 including a memoir about his time in prison. He's actually 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.479 working on another one right now. In he created the 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.520 Live in Peace mentorship program and has become a leading 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:54.280 voice in criminal justice reform. Today, he continues to work 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.640 on the ground in Detroit. Shaka's story may seem unique. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.640 I mean, he's literally been interviewed by Oprah, but his 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:10.200 experience is something many Americans have faced. And that's what 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.039 we're going to talk about today. What is it like 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.479 to be a return citizen and our ever changing digital landscape, 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.480 what happens when we leave an entire population in the dark, 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.480 and how can we better support them so that we 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:30.200 better support all of us. Today, we've got two incredible 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:39.720 conversations lined up now back to Shotgun. Because of the 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.400 title of this show is how to Citizen, and we 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.680 we take it as a verb. You're a returned citizen, 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.440 you know you're a member of a community that we 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.200 often banish from our concept of citizenship. So can you 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.000 define what a returning or returned citizen is for some 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.400 of our listeners. You know, when our first came home 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.000 and I heard that word, I was like, Wow, this 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.240 feels great, and I was so full of optimism and hopefulness. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.600 And what I thought, honestly, what happened is that I 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.880 would come home and basically confess my sins to my 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:12.640 community and say, you know, I really want to get 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.320 a job, that my dream as a writer. And what 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.520 I didn't know is that there were so many barriers 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:22.560 to re entry. You know, I didn't know that people 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.800 would hold you hostage to something that had happened nearly 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.200 two decades ago and say that you're unworthy of employment. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:33.080 I didn't know that people would rule you out as 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.720 being eligible to rent a house or rent an apartment. 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:43.520 And it was not only disappointing, it was devastating because 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:48.240 I really wanted to become part of a contributing community. 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.400 So I have that taken away almost immediately, and to 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.119 run into all these barriers like out of the gate, 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:01.840 it really made me think differently about citizenship, and even 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:03.800 to this day, I mean, you know, I've been on 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.120 the eleven years, and there's things that come up that 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.520 would shock most people when they think about where I'm 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.040 at this point in my life and the things that 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.840 I still have to grapple with. But after a while, 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.080 you get tired, you know, and it wears you down, 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.200 and you're constantly having to explain to your child, we 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.679 gotta go around this corner, up this block, down this alley, 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.840 jump over this fence to get the basic things that 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:35.440 comes with being a citizen. And despite that, I still 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:40.679 believe that, you know, my my role in American society 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.240 is one of contributing in a meaningful way to make 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.240 the world that we live in better. And it's one 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.840 of the reasons I mentor and work with kids and 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:57.720 schools um throughout the country. I can't imagine how much 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.920 catch up you had to play just with technology in 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.640 terms of how long you were incarcerated. So tell me 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.839 how long were you incarcerated and what was your technology 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:13.760 relationship during that part of your life. Yeah, So, you know, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.880 I laughed when I think about technology in prison, because 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.439 it basically did not exist when I went to prison. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.600 You know, our cell phones was like those big cinder 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.960 blocks so I went in in n and so I 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.320 came home June twenty two, two thousand ten, one day 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.240 after my birthday. So it's two decades of just innovation 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:39.080 and things had took place while I was inside. You know, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.079 when I came home, everything was new, I mean everything, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.440 you know, just an email, Like I had never heard 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.480 of an email, Like, what is this thing that they're 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.520 talking about? What you need for everything? You need to 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.440 put in a job application, you know, a resume. I 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.520 was so ignorant to technology that I used to get 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:02.560 into a consistent big ring situation with my then girlfriend 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.200 at the time because I used to think a word 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.360 document was the Internet. So every time I had to 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.560 save something, I would ask her was it okay? Because 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.600 I didn't want to give the computer of virus. It's 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.880 kind of funny now when you think about it, but 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.440 it was a real pain point because I don't think 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:24.200 that she quite understood the learning curve that it was 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.840 literally the equipment of Fred Flintstone walking into an episode 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.880 of The Jetsons, because that's what prison was. It was 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.199 his cave like barbaric environment, and all of a sudden, 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.800 I'm in the future where people can talk through screens. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:43.480 Mm hmm. I'm remembering when we first met back in 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.080 in Detroit. The M I. T. Media Lab had this 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:50.199 mission to like help Detroit out. But before my visit, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.080 an earlier group had come to the city and you 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.680 played a key role in vamp on the program, right, 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.840 So tell me what happened on that trip before you 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.839 and I met, because I'm pretty sure that my visit 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.720 was like a lot different than the lab's original plan 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.040 and those small part thanks to you. What happened is 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.760 I was invited to this event for my work that 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.880 I was doing in Detroit around literature and mentoring young people, 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.160 and they had a group of people in the room 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.640 that didn't quite look like the Detroitors that I knew. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.080 These were people who were transplanted Detroitors. They were just 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.880 moving in the real estate costs were low, and they 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.000 were kind of reimagining what the city could look like. 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.560 And so what they were telling the director then at 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:33.880 the time was that, you know, Detroit was a blank 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.160 slate and that they can pretty much do anything that 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.600 they wanted to. And I took offense to that, you know, 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.760 because I thought about my parents, who have been in 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.880 Detroite ever since they were born. I thought about my aunts, 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.199 my uncle's, my neighbors, my friends, people who had never 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.400 left the city, and what the city meant to them, 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.959 and so I basically stood up. I just said to them, 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.640 I said, you know, this isn't the real Detroit, and 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.760 if you won't experience the reality trade, I'm willing to 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:05.400 take you on a tour. And I took them all 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.920 throughout the city and every sexy you can imagine. I 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.680 took them to the areas that had some of the 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.320 toughest struggles, but also took them to some areas where 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.439 it was prominent people who had lived there all their 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.200 lives and contribute greatly to the city. You know. I 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.480 took them to urban farms, and I took them to 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.480 Grandma's backyard gardens because I wanted them to see that 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:30.080 urban farming wasn't a new thing. And from that experience 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.520 was born this idea that they were bringing together people 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.280 from all walks of life and come and work in 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.440 collaboration with the people in Detroit to figure out if 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.560 there was something we can build unique to the city's experience. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.200 And so that's how you and I ended up meeting, 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.400 Like you less such an impression, bro, and you were 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.760 an ambassador to the city. For me, I leaned on 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.600 that a lot, and I remember valuing the grounded perspective 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.480 you just shared, and I was so excited a year 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.280 later when we were reunited in Boston as director as 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.200 fellows at the M I T Media Lab. So talk 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.520 to me a little bit about your experience. I mean, 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.520 I know what it was like for me, but why 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.559 did you participate? What was it like for you. I've 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.960 never shared this with you, but I remember a day 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.920 of us sitting at the table with some of the 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.520 fellows and we were we were in in in my 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.760 T Media lab, and I was just trembling inside because 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.080 I felt so out of place. Um, you know, in 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.160 my mind you all were just like intellectual titans and 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.240 creatives and all these things. And I was like, wow, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.000 I'm I'm just you know, short of two years removed 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:42.240 from prison and I didn't quite think I fit in. 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.120 And I remember the first day going into the lab. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.040 It was one of those moments where I was like, wow, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.400 like the future is like right here in this one space. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.360 I remember seeing these bionic legs and these robots and 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:58.680 I was just like, this is this is just such, 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.480 it's so bizarre. But I was so curious to lean 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.959 in and learn even more. And then I started working 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.040 with people there and I was like, you know, innovation 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.679 takes place everywhere. I've been innovating my whole life. You know, 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:12.320 if you grow up in the hood and you have 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.599 to make the best of the twols at your disposal, 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.880 to improve the quality of life is something that you 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.960 that never leaves you. And so when I got to 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.840 the lab, I was like, man, we was doing this 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.040 with no resources in the joint. I think I'm onto 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.400 something right here. And so that's when I begin to 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.440 get more comfortable with it. But initially I was really 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.360 intimidated by being there. And I'll tell you a quick 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.080 story if we have time. When I was at Mr 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.880 T Media Lab. One of the ways that I figured 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:38.560 out that I fit in was when I did a 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.960 prison hackathon and I came up with these five design challenges. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.680 You know how to make a tattoo gun out of 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.600 a tape player motor, good child string in a in 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.000 an ink, and you know how to make a stinger, 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.280 which is how we heated up our award extensive cord 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.680 of nail clippers, And how to make a lighter out 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.440 of batteries. What I thought what happened was that these 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.360 brilliant students would solve them and they couldn't off none 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.440 of these in three hours. And it made me think 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.600 about the men and women inside who saw these things 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.720 in thirty seconds to survive and what would happen if 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.040 they had unfettered access to the resources that create technology. 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:17.840 Mm hmm. How do you think the experience of incarceration 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:22.160 would change if there were more access to technology inside 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.520 of prisons. I think there would be a lot of 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.280 a lot of changes. I think that people on an 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.880 inside would really be able to imagine a life for 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.760 themselves beyond being in the prison cell. I met some 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.800 of the most innovative people in prison, and there's an 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.160 organization that I love that I just have, you know, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.480 great deal of respect for a car the last mile 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.560 and they're actually showing what would happen. There's men and 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.080 women inside of prisons right now as part of this 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.400 program that are actually building. Companies actually went to one 0:15:55.400 --> 0:16:00.040 of their demo days of Saint Quentin. Every and of 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.360 those from an app that helps find missing children to 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.920 one that lets parents track their kids grades g P 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.040 and how about a voice coded trigger lock that can 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.640 be traced by police if you've got to stolen. There's 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.520 not a problem like that on the market. The program 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.560 is and walking around and seeing what these men were creating, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:27.120 and how they were just so enthusiastic and hopeful and 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.440 full of light. And I was just like, man, I 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.640 wish I had that experience on the way out of prison. 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.120 I could have accelerated some things. But you know, to 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.520 see it happening at this level now, to see people 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.520 more open to it, it's really inspiring to me. So 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.560 that's what I think what happened is more creativity, more innovation, 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.680 and more companies built built by system impacted people. Shaka 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.960 sing Gore, Director of Dopeness, a well earned title, my friend, 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:04.280 my brother, thank you. In a lot of ways, Shaka's 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:09.520 story is exceptional. A man, against all odds, has been 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.120 able to repent for his crimes, rise to the top 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.560 of his field, and give back to his community in 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:20.600 a big way. It's the type of story our society loves, inspirational, 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:25.959 feel good, comforting. If taken out of context, it's almost 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:30.280 too comforting because Shaka shouldn't be the exception, and he 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.640 will be the first one to tell you that there 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.520 are more than two million people incarcerated in the United 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.520 States today. In fact, the US is consistently ranked as 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.600 the country with the highest incarceration rate per capita in 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:48.960 the whole world. Given those numbers, how many Shakas are 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:58.119 imprisoned today? People who have been cast aside despite their potential, 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.280 those whose perspectives can be a real asset to our society, 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.800 but we'll never get the chance. So please don't hold 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.919 Shaka as an example that the system is working because 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.720 someone like him became a tech executive. Instead, let Shaka 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.560 be a reminder to us, all of the potential innovators 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.480 who are in prison today, that for every one of 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.120 them who makes it, there are hundreds more who don't 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:30.280 get the chance. For mean, what's really heartbreaking is I 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.760 never heard one person say I can't wait to leave 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:38.359 prison to go back to prison, not one, And yet 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.800 about the people who leave prison go back And it's 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:47.920 because we don't allow them to connect back to society 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.560 in a meaningful way and have that human capital restored. 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:56.879 So what does it take to change the system so 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.000 that stories like Chaka's become the norm? After the break? 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.119 My conversation with Teresa Hodge, a return citizen who has 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:19.440 dedicated her life to answering that question. Teresa, what's up? Welcome, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.520 thank you, It's so wonderful to be here with you today. 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.439 Teresa Hodge is the co founder and CEO of Mission Launch, 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.360 an organization in the DC area that's dedicated to supporting 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.640 individuals with the rest records and families impacted by mass 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.919 incarceration now. Mission Launch does this through an array of programs, 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:45.040 including financial literacy workshops, a business accelerator for returned citizens, 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.080 and even hackathons with the mission to improve post prison 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:54.040 re entry. In addition, Mission Launch and Teresa have created 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.880 Our three Score. This is an alternative to the background 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.040 check that doesn't simply ask do you have a criminal 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:05.359 record and ended that because we all know people are 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.520 much more dynamic than a simple yes no answer. Instead, 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:14.159 our three score is a more nuanced algorithm that asks 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.160 a series of questions that are better able to determine 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.639 how someone might perform as an employee, a residence, a borrower, 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.000 or something else. Think of it as a credit score 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.960 that actually makes sense. Wouldn't that be nice? Their current 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:34.000 initiative bank on a hundred million brings together both these efforts. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.520 This campaign helps companies in schools rework their hiring, lending, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.920 and admissions practices so they no longer exclude folks simply 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.919 for having criminal records, because that would exclude about a 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:52.159 hundred million people. Basically, look Teresa's using tech and activism 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.160 and her lived experience to improve the lives of millions 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:02.960 of Americans. Can you tell me how the idea of 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:07.080 Mission Launch came about? What was the moment? So the 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.800 moment for Mission Launch came when I was sitting in prison. 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.600 I went to prison in two thousand and seven and 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.600 began serving an eighty seven month federal prison sentence. That 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.240 seven years, three months felt like a lifetime sentence quite 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.040 frankly when it was given to me. The one thing 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.720 I knew was in order to be relevant, I had 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:31.000 to do something that concerned the prison, because after spending 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:35.240 those many years in prison, the only thing that I 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.840 would really know the most about was going to be prison. 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.719 But while I sat in prison and I listened to 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.680 the stories of the women who I was incarcerated with, 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.560 and I watched even more so a lot of women 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:51.080 go to prison and come back, I just really began 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.600 studying and trying to understand why were people coming back 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.640 Because what I knew was prison life was no way 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.639 of living, and people were coming back. There was a 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:08.360 strong disconnect. Yeah, you've talked about how technology is essential 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.760 and re entry for someone who's going to post incarceration. 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.520 What was the tech landscape like as you remember it 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.280 before you were in carcerated back in oh seven. So 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:21.680 when I went to prison, just to kind of help 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:28.320 you understand where technology was, Facebook was what young people 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:32.879 were using, my Space was around. And while I was 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:37.520 in prison, a few days afterwards, Steve Jobs announced the 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:42.359 first iPhone. There is a major breakthrough headed to American consumers. 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.679 It's the iPhone, an iPod, a cell phone in a 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.480 portable internet all in a little lightweight package. Today Apple 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.520 is going to reinvent the phone. And while I was 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.639 in prison, people start tweeting and I couldn't understand what 0:22:57.680 --> 0:22:59.159 do you mean people are tweeting? What do you mean 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:02.560 they're putting in an atmosphere? But who's in the atmosphere? 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:06.399 What's going on? And what you understand is technology is 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:09.480 a context sport. And so for the men and women 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:17.720 who are incarcerated, we have disconnected them. I can't even 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.359 It's hard for me to imagine I stud in line 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.960 for that first iPhone and the idea that I would 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:27.360 be confined during that time and not even fully understand 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.800 that that was happening. That's jarring, you know, like that 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.600 someone changed the official language of your society and you 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.960 come back in you don't quite speaking. Am I capturing 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:39.720 some of what that must have felt like for you. 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.480 There were a few things that I missed the most. 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:48.879 Technology was one. Popcorn was another. I'll show you. I 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:50.600 need to show you how shallow I am, and that 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.840 you know, and my family and I really missed. But 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.640 it was the inability to use technology. And I am 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:01.040 a person who wasn't early adopted to technology. You know. 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:05.159 I really emphasized to a lot of young people before 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.639 incarceration the importance of technology and the digital divide. I 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.479 was teaching about it. So to find myself on the 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:14.080 other side of the divide, it was just heart wrenching. 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:19.359 Mm hm. Take me to the day you're released. What 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:25.320 do you remember about that day? I was released from 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:28.840 prison August three, two thousand and eleven, and so I 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:33.320 remember that day like it was yesterday, And what what 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:38.439 did my daughter bring me an iPhone? And ya, I 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.840 had been talking about technology. Did she bring you popcorn? 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:44.000 That's the real question, you know, she did not bring 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.679