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Speaker 2: terms and responsible gambling resources. All right, welcome to hoops tonight.
Speaker 2: You're at the Vaulume. Happy Wednesday, everybody, hope all if
Speaker 2: you guys are having a great week. We actually have
Speaker 2: two shows today. In this particular episode, we're just gonna
Speaker 2: hit Sixers Warriors. Then I want to talk about some
Speaker 2: of the past aggressive Lebron stuff, and we're gonna play
Speaker 2: a little game, a little hypothetical game about Lebron potentially
Speaker 2: leaping the Lakers. Then I have ten mail bag questions
Speaker 2: that we're gonna hit at the end of the show
Speaker 2: where we bounce around the entire league. Later today, I
Speaker 2: have Carter Rodriguez from the Chase Down Pod, who covers
Speaker 2: the Cleveland Cavaliers after a big win against the Clippers
Speaker 2: on Monday night, and I think they've won something crazy
Speaker 2: like fifteen of their last nineteen games. So we're gonna
Speaker 2: do a deep dive on the Cleveland Cavaliers later this afternoon.
Speaker 2: That'll be in a separate video that you guys can
Speaker 2: see later Today, you guys known the Joe fort we
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Speaker 2: All right, So, I think the story of the Sixers
Speaker 2: Warriors game was the defense they played on Joel Embiid
Speaker 2: now important caveat there. I thought Embiid looked super disengaged
Speaker 2: in this particular game. The dead giveaway was like he
Speaker 2: basically would never be physically aggressive. He was just looking
Speaker 2: to take jump shots. As a matter of fact, thirteen
Speaker 2: of his eighteen shots that he took in that game
Speaker 2: or jump shots he basically just catch and then the
Speaker 2: Warriors would kind of press up on him and then
Speaker 2: he kind of take a jab step jumper. And there's
Speaker 2: some weird stuff going on with Philly, not just with
Speaker 2: the on the injury front, but also on the body
Speaker 2: language front. It's a little weird. That said, I want
Speaker 2: to give the Warriors some credit. They were swarming. Specifically,
Speaker 2: one of the things you saw both Kevon Looney and
Speaker 2: Raymond Green do is chest up Joel Embiid with their
Speaker 2: arms out wide to the side, basically making it so
Speaker 2: that they could play like physical ball pressure without actually
Speaker 2: risking fouling on those reaching you know, because Joel Embid's
Speaker 2: always like digging those arms out in front of him
Speaker 2: in a weird kind of like jump shot a gather
Speaker 2: to try to draw fouls, right, And that's the most
Speaker 2: important parts of guarding Embeid is contesting those shots without fouling,
Speaker 2: and then from there it's like digging down into driving
Speaker 2: lanes and swarming him, especially when he puts the ball
Speaker 2: on the floor and turns his back. And they were
Speaker 2: doing a great job every single time inb did put
Speaker 2: the ball on the floor by reaching in from behind,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kminga got a few steals. In particular, they actually
Speaker 2: forced him into eight turnovers overall. I think he was
Speaker 2: like five to eighteen from the field. Just an excellent
Speaker 2: defensive performance from the Golden State Warriors. And you know,
Speaker 2: Draymond Green, I thought played a big part in this.
Speaker 2: I thought he did just an incredible job on Joel
Speaker 2: Embiid and the possessions he was on him. And I
Speaker 2: think a lot of times, like one of the things
Speaker 2: that we gloss over in the in the NBA postseason
Speaker 2: is the capability that your roster has to make real
Speaker 2: significant impact on opposing stars, because like when you really
Speaker 2: look back, like let's just take a look at the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two postseason run, for example, and point out
Speaker 2: some specific examples of the way the Warriors defense didn't
Speaker 2: just do good job but actually led players to having
Speaker 2: struggles in real way. So for instance, like in that
Speaker 2: first series against the Denver Nuggets, there was a big
Speaker 2: play I think in game five if I remember correctly
Speaker 2: where Nicole Jokich was. I think it was actually game
Speaker 2: four when they went up three to one. I can't
Speaker 2: remember exactly which game it was, but you guys, remember
Speaker 2: it was a one possession game. Late Nicole Jokich was
Speaker 2: attacking Draymond Green in the post on the left block,
Speaker 2: and Draymond Green actually got to reach around steal on him.
Speaker 2: Like how many players do you know that are capable
Speaker 2: of going on an island against one of the top
Speaker 2: five players in the league in a big moment and
Speaker 2: picking them clean. And that's what Draymond Green brings to
Speaker 2: the table as like a transcendent defensive option. Right. And
Speaker 2: then looking at the Dallas Maverick series between Andrew Wiggins
Speaker 2: ball pressure, the good job they did on the back
Speaker 2: line helping without helping too much off of shooters Like
Speaker 2: Luca put up statistical numbers, but he was nowhere near
Speaker 2: as you put up box score numbers, but he wasn't
Speaker 2: as impactful as an offensive initiator in that series. In fact,
Speaker 2: he was down a significant level from where he was
Speaker 2: in the Phoenix Sun series, and that's an example of
Speaker 2: what that transcendent defensive impact can do. And then lastly,
Speaker 2: the Jason Tatum series in the against the Celtics in
Speaker 2: the NBA Finals, they sent him into one of his
Speaker 2: worst playoff series as a pro, and that just goes
Speaker 2: to show you, like that specific element. Having defensive weapons
Speaker 2: the caliber of Draymond Green, the caliber of Andrew Wiggins,
Speaker 2: they can go a long way towards swinging playoff series
Speaker 2: by causing opposing stars to play well below their capability.
Speaker 2: I thought last night against Joel Embiid was a great
Speaker 2: example of that. Like, don't take Draymond Green for granted,
Speaker 2: Like his ability to impact the game defensively isn't just
Speaker 2: really good, it's transcendently good. It's top tier in the
Speaker 2: NBA good. Right. The second big takeaway I had from
Speaker 2: this game is that Steph is just back to form.
Speaker 2: Now at thirty seven on seventeen shots, He's averaging thirty
Speaker 2: three to five and six on fifty three percent from
Speaker 2: the field, forty eight percent from three, and one hundred
Speaker 2: percent from the line over the course of his last
Speaker 2: five games. Remember, over his previous twenty three games, just
Speaker 2: twenty five, four and six on forty two percent from
Speaker 2: the field, thirty six percent from three to ninety two
Speaker 2: percent from the line. So like we went from an
Speaker 2: extended stretch there where Steph was playing below his capability
Speaker 2: to now we have a two or three week stretch here,
Speaker 2: two weeks basically where Steph looks more or less like
Speaker 2: the stepf that we know as matter of fact playing
Speaker 2: at an MVP level. And that was just an important checkpoint,
Speaker 2: right Like when I talked about the three important things
Speaker 2: that the Warriors had to accomplish, It's like step one,
Speaker 2: Steph has to play like Steph Curry right. Step two
Speaker 2: you have to be coherent defensively and honestly have to
Speaker 2: be great defensively with some of the limitations they have
Speaker 2: in chock craation. And then three you need backup offensive support,
Speaker 2: which leads us to the next big takeaway. Andrew Wiggins
Speaker 2: was awesome in this game against the Sixers. He was
Speaker 2: getting downhill penetration on Kelly Ubra, he was rising up
Speaker 2: around the rim and dunking everything on cuts. That's an
Speaker 2: area where he's been really bad this year. He's been
Speaker 2: really timid and soft around the basket. And I pulled
Speaker 2: this data last week, but like before the last couple
Speaker 2: of games, Andrew Wiggins was down something crazy like eight
Speaker 2: or nine percent on layups around the basket compared to
Speaker 2: last year, and so that just goes compared to the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two season, pardon me, so, like seeing Andrew
Speaker 2: just going up with more confidence around the basket as
Speaker 2: an athlete, like dunking everything hanging on the rim, just
Speaker 2: having that like force and power behind his game is super,
Speaker 2: super encouraging it. Twenty three points on ten shots last night.
Speaker 2: In this four game stretch after the team took that break,
Speaker 2: obviously to grieve the loss of one of their assistant coaches,
Speaker 2: he's averaging nineteen points, five rebounds, and three assists on
Speaker 2: sixty three percent from the field, forty six percent from
Speaker 2: the three point line, and two point three steals in
Speaker 2: blocks per game. So like that's more or less than
Speaker 2: Andrew Wiggins that we remember from twenty twenty two. That's
Speaker 2: what the Warriors have been getting. And you know what's
Speaker 2: crazy is the offense has come. But it started in
Speaker 2: that Atlanta Hawks game with re engaging defensively at the
Speaker 2: point of attack, with the job that he did on
Speaker 2: to Jontay Murray, and he's just kind of ridden that momentum.
Speaker 2: I've talked about this concept on the show before. I
Speaker 2: talked about yesterday actually, but one of the best ways
Speaker 2: to get out of a slump is to impact winning elsewhere.
Speaker 2: Because when you start impact winning else elsewhere, you can
Speaker 2: feel it, You feel it in your confidence. You know,
Speaker 2: I am helping my team right now. That relieves pressure
Speaker 2: when you go to take a shot. And Andrew's shooting
Speaker 2: better from three. He's made six of his last nine threes.
Speaker 2: He's making those important kind of weak side wing above
Speaker 2: the break threes that the Warriors offense can generate for him.
Speaker 2: And like the confidence to take those and make those
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways can come from playing well
Speaker 2: elsewhere on the floor. And I think you're kind of
Speaker 2: just seeing momentum, like real positive momentum with Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 2: And you know, I saw a report yesterday it might
Speaker 2: have been it was yesterday or two days ago about
Speaker 2: the Warriors potentially exploring player for player swaps involving Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 2: I talkalked about some of them on the show actually
Speaker 2: that I had heard about behind the scenes. A couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago, so, like, I know that's something that
Speaker 2: they had explored, but I've maintained this all season, like,
Speaker 2: unless you're getting something significant, like a real return, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't look for like a player for player, like another
Speaker 2: role player type of swap for Andrew Wiggins, because, as
Speaker 2: I've said all season, the potential he has to regain
Speaker 2: what he used to be is far greater than what
Speaker 2: any potential trade return would be at this point. And
Speaker 2: so I'm actually very hopeful that the Warriors keep Andrew
Speaker 2: Wiggins and just kind of lean into hoping that he
Speaker 2: kind of gets back on track the way that he
Speaker 2: has in the last couple of weeks. And then lastly
Speaker 2: on the Warriors front, Johnathanmingez twenty six just a ridiculous
Speaker 2: highlight reel. He had this transition push against Obias Harris
Speaker 2: where he like crossed him over right to left and
Speaker 2: Embiid was waiting for him at the rim and he
Speaker 2: just went right into him Beid's chest and finished at
Speaker 2: the rim. There's another one where he kind of slashed
Speaker 2: from the top of the key and he took off
Speaker 2: like he was gonna dunk on him and like took
Speaker 2: the content contact and then whipped around with like a
Speaker 2: scoop shot off the glass. It was ridiculous. He's dunking
Speaker 2: on everyone on these cuts that he catches underneath the basket.
Speaker 2: He's hitting pull up jump shots, he's hitting above to
Speaker 2: break threes. He's just it's outrageous, like we're watching an
Speaker 2: incredible rise. Remember, Jonathan Kaminga before this stretch had never
Speaker 2: put two twenty point games together in a row. Never,
Speaker 2: he had never done it. And now he's had seven
Speaker 2: consecutive twenty plus point nights. Over the seven game span,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kminga is averaging sixty two or He's averaging twenty
Speaker 2: five points and seven rebounds on sixty two percent from
Speaker 2: the field and fifty five percent from three, including one
Speaker 2: point nine stocks per game. That steals plus blocks. So
Speaker 2: I'm officially at the point with Jonathan Kminga where you
Speaker 2: just can't trade this guy. You can't trade him unless
Speaker 2: you're getting back a legitimate star, and quite frankly, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that type of star is available at this deadline.
Speaker 2: You know, I was talking with sam as fondi Ari
Speaker 2: in our post game show after I think it was
Speaker 2: the Kings game a few nights ago, and we kind
Speaker 2: of talked about how like the like like a Lori
Speaker 2: Marken and would be like the minimum allowable kind of
Speaker 2: quality of player that you'd make a move for. And like,
Speaker 2: I'm not even sure Lori is enough now, Like I
Speaker 2: think this guy's on like a bona fide star trajectory.
Speaker 2: He's he moves, he moves in a way that is
Speaker 2: not like top tier for the position. He moves in
Speaker 2: a way that is like like truly, it's like a unicorn.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like his unique basketball trait that kind
Speaker 2: of makes him that makes him special compared to other
Speaker 2: excellent forward prospects that we see in NBA history. It
Speaker 2: like when you combine that with like the touch and
Speaker 2: the confidence and the real like relentless downhill motor that
Speaker 2: he has. I don't think you can trade this guy,
Speaker 2: not unless you're getting back a legitimate star, Like not
Speaker 2: unless you're getting a back a guy that makes you
Speaker 2: actually sit back and think, oh, we have a chance
Speaker 2: to win the title here, Like if for some reason
Speaker 2: you could get a player that's of like a Paul
Speaker 2: George's caliber, which obviously are not because the Clippers are
Speaker 2: contending for the title, but it would have to be
Speaker 2: that type of player, a bona fide top fifteen player,
Speaker 2: and I just don't see that out on the market.
Speaker 2: So I think you hang on to Jonathan Kaminge at
Speaker 2: this point and you try to make it work with
Speaker 2: some sort of other ancillary moves on the margins. All right,
Speaker 2: so let's move on to this passive aggressive Lebron stuff.
Speaker 2: So first of all, we've had all sorts of reporting
Speaker 2: behind the scenes for a while. I had heard specifically
Speaker 2: that Lebron and ad were just done with Darvin Ham
Speaker 2: at one point in time. That was about a month
Speaker 2: ago or earlier in January, I should say not quite
Speaker 2: a month ago. But we're seeing all sorts of passive
Speaker 2: aggressive stuff. I've seen Anthony Davis walk out of a huddle.
Speaker 2: I've seen Lebron have really bad body language in a huddle.
Speaker 2: Lebron post game last night gets cut off by a
Speaker 2: reporter and goes like, thanks for stopping me. I was
Speaker 2: about to go off. He tweets last night the hour
Speaker 2: goal emoji it. It's just a lot of classic Lebron
Speaker 2: passive aggressive stuff. So now, for the record, I do
Speaker 2: not think that Lebron James is gonna leave Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: his kids are in LA I think he loves playing
Speaker 2: for the Lakers. I think he loves the I think
Speaker 2: he loves playing in Crypto dot com arena. I think
Speaker 2: he loves playing in front of the celebrities. I think
Speaker 2: he feels the stage, in the vibe, in the history
Speaker 2: of the organization, and I think he loves that. And
Speaker 2: quite frankly, he's gonna be in his twenty second season
Speaker 2: next year. I don't think he's I don't think he's
Speaker 2: in a position from an age standpoint to start a
Speaker 2: new venture. So my opinion is that all of this
Speaker 2: his classic Lebron stuff just to try to apply pressure
Speaker 2: on the front office to get a trade done. That's
Speaker 2: what I think is happening. But we're gonna have some
Speaker 2: fun here. I want to contemplate different examples of opportunities
Speaker 2: for Lebron to potentially leave the Lakers and go help
Speaker 2: another team win a championship, just for fun. So, first
Speaker 2: of all, what type of team would Lebron help the most?
Speaker 2: A team with like an opening in that big forward
Speaker 2: spot right to a team that's already in the title mix,
Speaker 2: right Like Lebron's not gonna leave for another Iffy situation, right,
Speaker 2: that's that that would serve no purpose. And then lastly,
Speaker 2: a team that could use size and power on the
Speaker 2: front line, So specifically, teams that struggle with defensive rebounding
Speaker 2: helpside defense interior playmaking, whether it's out of the post
Speaker 2: or in just an overall like kind of a bullyball
Speaker 2: attack around the basket like matchup attacking. Those are the
Speaker 2: kinds of teams that we would be looking at. Right,
Speaker 2: So what I want to do here, I want to
Speaker 2: give my top five favorite Lebron James destinations. Now important
Speaker 2: caveat here I'm looking at because I want to make
Speaker 2: because there's a bunch of different ways this could go down.
Speaker 2: Right like Lebron could ask for a trade at this deadline.
Speaker 2: Right Like Lebron could opt into his new deal and
Speaker 2: then ask for a trade this summer. That that would
Speaker 2: probably be like the most likely scenario. If Lebron wanted
Speaker 2: to leave, he'd probably opt in and ask for a
Speaker 2: trade because he'd probably want to make sure he gets
Speaker 2: paid what he deserves. But that would make things really
Speaker 2: complicated and severely limit the types of teams that could
Speaker 2: go after him. So I am building this list based
Speaker 2: purely on the idea of Lebron signing an exception to
Speaker 2: start with the deal, start with the team. So whether
Speaker 2: that's a veteran minimum exception or like the whatever mid
Speaker 2: level exception the team has available, depending on their situation
Speaker 2: with their salary cap. I'm looking at Lebron's signing with
Speaker 2: these teams outright, and I'm going to give you guys
Speaker 2: my top five here and I'll explain why I like
Speaker 2: the move for each team. So number five, the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 2: He'd be surrounded by now again, like you were looking
Speaker 2: at a construct here where you're looking at like Anthony Edwards,
Speaker 2: Mike Conley, Jaden McDaniels, Lebron, James, Rudy Gobert. He'd be
Speaker 2: surrounded by excellent defensive players and ton of and a
Speaker 2: ton of regular season motor to just kind of help
Speaker 2: him over the course of the regular season. He'd be
Speaker 2: an excellent back line guy without having to over exert
Speaker 2: himself on that end of the floor. He'd play alongside
Speaker 2: a young superstar and Anthony Edwards who can carry a
Speaker 2: good chunk of the offensive load in the regular season.
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards two kind of reminds me a lot of
Speaker 2: young Lebron where he just brings an insane amount of athleticism, motor,
Speaker 2: and competitiveness to every regular season game, which I think
Speaker 2: would be a great fit there. And then lastly, I
Speaker 2: think Lebron could help them with late game execution. This
Speaker 2: was one of the biggest weaknesses for the Timberwolves all
Speaker 2: season long. Like half court offense, slow down, clutch time offense,
Speaker 2: that's a specific area where Lebron would be able to help.
Speaker 2: I think if you add Lebron at the four with
Speaker 2: the Minnesota Timberwolves, they immediately become a top tier contender.
Speaker 2: Number four the Oklahoma City Thunder, he specifically addresses everything
Speaker 2: they suck at. He's the big forward they don't have
Speaker 2: on the roster. He would help with defensive rebounding. They
Speaker 2: have no post presence. As a matter of fact, the
Speaker 2: Thunder run the third fewest post ups in the league,
Speaker 2: and so Lebron would kind of bring that matchup attacking
Speaker 2: element to that frontline that they don't have. And he
Speaker 2: provides the experience and leadership that a team like this
Speaker 2: would need to navigate a deep playoff front And once again,
Speaker 2: just like we talked about with the Timberwolves, a young
Speaker 2: team with a ton of defense and shot creation and
Speaker 2: athleticism and motor to carry them through the regular season.
Speaker 2: So important contexts with number five and number four, Minnesota
Speaker 2: and Oklahoma City are really small markets, and so they're
Speaker 2: extremely unlikely because even in the event that Lebron did
Speaker 2: decide to move, it's just hard to imagine Lebron being like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna finish my career in Minnesota, you know, like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna finish my career at Oklahoma City. So I
Speaker 2: am abundantly aware of the fact that those are basically
Speaker 2: just never ever ever going to happen. But as a
Speaker 2: basketball fan, those are examples of two teams positionally with
Speaker 2: the way those rosters are constructed that he would be
Speaker 2: a really good basketball fit with. These last three are
Speaker 2: like somewhat more legitimate for various reasons. In the event
Speaker 2: that Lebron did choose to leave, these teams actually make
Speaker 2: sense for him as destinations. So number three the Cleveland Cavaliers,
Speaker 2: just like Oklahoma City, they don't post up. As a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, they are one of only two teams
Speaker 2: in the league that post up less frequently than Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: The Calves are a massive pick and roll attack tons
Speaker 2: and tons and tons of spread, pick and roll, and
Speaker 2: so they don't really have a lot of diversity in
Speaker 2: their offense. Lebron would help them a lot with that,
Speaker 2: just giving them an additional matchup attacking option as a
Speaker 2: bully ball forward right. Secondly, late game execution, the Calves
Speaker 2: are the fourth worst clutch offense in the league. Lebron
Speaker 2: would help them significantly on that front. And again, just
Speaker 2: the idea of matchup attacking. I love the idea of
Speaker 2: like a Donovan Mitchell Lebron James two man game at
Speaker 2: the end of games to pick on specific matchups and
Speaker 2: to generate high quality shots, and then you could really
Speaker 2: help with Evan Mobley's development. I think in the short
Speaker 2: term it would be a little complicated because like Jared
Speaker 2: Allen is just a better like kind of like center
Speaker 2: and anchor right now than Evan Mobley. And you don't
Speaker 2: like the idea of Evan Mobley coming off the bench, right,
Speaker 2: But like in the long run, you could see better
Speaker 2: of an an option where like maybe you can get
Speaker 2: away with Lebron at the four and Evan Mobley at
Speaker 2: the five because of Lebron's strength, right, And I think
Speaker 2: maybe you lean into that sort of thing. Most importantly,
Speaker 2: it's a place that you could see Lebron actually wanting
Speaker 2: to end his career. Like if you heard, oh, Lebron's
Speaker 2: leaving the Lakers to go back to Cleveland and finish
Speaker 2: his career there, he'd be like, oh, yeah, that makes
Speaker 2: some sense just because of Lebron's history in that city. Right.
Speaker 2: Number two, the Golden State Warriors. It's a fun one.
Speaker 2: Really would help with interior size and strength, which is
Speaker 2: one of the bigger weaknesses on the roster. Also an
Speaker 2: alternative playmaker. We've talked about this all season long and
Speaker 2: extending back into the postseason last year. It just comes
Speaker 2: down to way too often Steph being the only guy
Speaker 2: who can generate a quality shot. Lebron would be able
Speaker 2: to just alleviate some of that for him. Three, he
Speaker 2: gets to stay in California and be relatively close to
Speaker 2: his kids, so it makes some logistical sense from the
Speaker 2: standpoint of where he is at this point in his life.
Speaker 2: And then lastly, Stephan Lebron playing together just be really cool.
Speaker 2: I think they're the two best players of this era.
Speaker 2: I don't think the roster is talented enough that people
Speaker 2: would discount any success of those two guys. Like, I
Speaker 2: think if Steph and Lebron won a title together at
Speaker 2: this phase, with Steph turning thirty six in March in
Speaker 2: Lebron being thirty nine years old, I think it would
Speaker 2: actually be more of a testament to the greatness of
Speaker 2: those two rather than some sort of detriment because they
Speaker 2: did it together, especially with some of the limitations of
Speaker 2: talent around them. Also, Jonathan Kaminga with his athleticism and
Speaker 2: with the shooting that he's demonstrating as of late, shooting
Speaker 2: over fifty percent from three over the seven game span, Like,
Speaker 2: I actually think he could theoretically play the three next
Speaker 2: to Lebron and Draymond Green, and so like, just as
Speaker 2: a basketball fan, I would just I think that would
Speaker 2: be really really fun to see the two of them
Speaker 2: play together. And then lastly, our last one, uh, the
Speaker 2: number one place that I'd like to see Lebron James
Speaker 2: go if he left the Los Angeles Lakers the New
Speaker 2: York Knicks, another huge market, a franchise with a ton
Speaker 2: of history. They are legitimately built to win the title.
Speaker 2: With a couple of a couple of upgrades, Just imagine
Speaker 2: like a significantly better version of Julius Randall, a better shooter,
Speaker 2: a better matchup attacker, a better defensive player, better attitude,
Speaker 2: better leader, better all of that stuff, right, And you
Speaker 2: can imagine, obviously, with Mitchell Robinson being back like this
Speaker 2: incredibly physically imposing frontline of ogn and ob Lebron, James
Speaker 2: and Mitchell Robinson alongside an excellent point of attack defender
Speaker 2: in Dante DiVincenzo and Jalen Brunson, And specifically the Jalen
Speaker 2: Brunson fit kind of reminds me of the Kyrie Irving
Speaker 2: fit with the Cavaliers in the sense that like he's
Speaker 2: more of like an individual shot creator on an island
Speaker 2: who also is capable of passing. But Jalen is a
Speaker 2: guy that like picks on matchups primarily looking to score.
Speaker 2: And I think that that compliments Lebron really really well.
Speaker 2: And again, like you can just imagine Lebron potentially enjoying
Speaker 2: being at Madison Square Garden, enjoying the history, enjoying playing
Speaker 2: for the celebrity in front of the celebrities, enjoying, you know,
Speaker 2: trying to add another chapter or to his legacy in
Speaker 2: reviving the New York Knicks, although they've already kind of
Speaker 2: started that revival, right, But like of all of the
Speaker 2: teams out there, there are a lot of options that
Speaker 2: make sense. But I thought the New York Knicks had
Speaker 2: that best balance of like he would get the majority
Speaker 2: of the credit, and you know how much that matters
Speaker 2: to Lebron, the history of the franchise, the actual proximity
Speaker 2: to championship contention. It just makes a lot of sense
Speaker 2: on that front. All right, let's move on to the
Speaker 2: mail bang. First question, what do you think is up
Speaker 2: with Jamal Murray? I figured he would be a good
Speaker 2: candidate to get his first All Star non but does
Speaker 2: not look likely this year unless there are injuries or
Speaker 2: some other factor. Clearly, he's a great player and with
Speaker 2: great physical tools and skill set who tends to rise
Speaker 2: to the occasion. But to me, he seems like he
Speaker 2: just plays to the level of the competition and the moment.
Speaker 2: So a couple of things I think. For I think
Speaker 2: it's important to acknowledge that Denver has a lot of
Speaker 2: offensive talent. So like Contavio's Collo Pope is a guy
Speaker 2: who can easily go for twenty in a night, right
Speaker 2: like He's he can hit jump shots coming off of screens.
Speaker 2: He's a great transition scorer, spot up shooter, that kind
Speaker 2: of thing. Michael Porter Junior is a guy you can
Speaker 2: go for thirty on any given night. Aaron Gordon is
Speaker 2: a guy that, like I mean, we've seen him literally
Speaker 2: in the NBA Finals spam post ups as he goes
Speaker 2: to work. He's a guy that's got a lot of
Speaker 2: offensive talent, especially combined with his athleticism. And so I
Speaker 2: think a lot of times in the regular season on
Speaker 2: the night and night out stuff. You see this with
Speaker 2: Jokic too, where it's like there are nights where like
Speaker 2: Jamal and and Nikola just don't really have to be aggressive.
Speaker 2: They don't have to because of the way the regular
Speaker 2: season pans out. And then what we've seen consistently is
Speaker 2: anytime there's some sort of significant challenge in front of them,
Speaker 2: especially when you see Michael Porter start to misshots, you
Speaker 2: see KCP start to misshots, see Aaron Gordon getting left open,
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. Every single time we've seen that,
Speaker 2: Jamal and Nikola, Jokich the kind of just have this
Speaker 2: moment where they're like, hey, it's time for us to
Speaker 2: take over, and they do. And again, like I understand
Speaker 2: that there's some frustration on that front as it pertains
Speaker 2: to the awards and the fact that Jamal Murray deserves
Speaker 2: more recognition as a player in this league than what
Speaker 2: his accolades would suggest. Right, But if you had to
Speaker 2: choose between a guy who had all the accolades but
Speaker 2: couldn't rise to the occasion, or a guy that didn't
Speaker 2: have the accolades but the guy that you trusted to
Speaker 2: rise to the occasion, which guy would you take? Obviously
Speaker 2: the second one. I am happy for Nuggets fans that
Speaker 2: they get to root for a guy like Jamal Murray.
Speaker 2: I think he's the perfect co star for Nikola Jokic.
Speaker 2: Next question, do you think Torrian Prince is being given
Speaker 2: so much playing time to juice his trade stock. I
Speaker 2: know his contract isn't as big as a d LO,
Speaker 2: but alongside someone else he could make a desirable offer.
Speaker 2: Van Do and Ruey are the playoff wings, but they've
Speaker 2: had injuries this season. Maybe Ham is thinking of it
Speaker 2: in a load management sort of way. So the digging
Speaker 2: I've done behind the scenes would lead me to believe
Speaker 2: that the Lakers are primarily prioritizing Torrian Prince because of
Speaker 2: his shooting just a simple, a simple concept of spacing.
Speaker 2: He shoots thirty nine percent from three, and I think
Speaker 2: they're just kind of keeping it at that level. But
Speaker 2: there's no legitimate basketball reason for Torrian Prince to be
Speaker 2: starting at the three. Historically in the NBA, he's been
Speaker 2: a bench player. I mentioned this stat the other day.
Speaker 2: Torrian Prince has started more than twice as many games
Speaker 2: this season as he has in the previous three seasons combined.
Speaker 2: He's a bench wing, perfectly fine bench wing, but he's
Speaker 2: being asked to do more than he's capable of. Right now.
Speaker 2: I was doing lineup data stuff for the Cleveland Cavaliers
Speaker 2: video that I'm doing later today with Carter Rodriguez, and
Speaker 2: I found this gem for you guys. There are twenty
Speaker 2: two to five man lineups in the NBA that have
Speaker 2: played at least two hundred minutes this year. The D'Angelo Russell,
Speaker 2: Austin Reeves, Torrian Prince, Lebron James Anthony Davis lineup is
Speaker 2: being outscored by four and a half points per one
Speaker 2: hundred possessions, which is the second worst mark in that
Speaker 2: entire list. Literally twenty first out of twenty two teams.
Speaker 2: So like, there is an extensive bit of evidence that
Speaker 2: that lineup does not work for everything Darvin Ham is
Speaker 2: focusing on on the spacing side of things. It is
Speaker 2: a basic misunderstanding of the way the modern NBA works.
Speaker 2: In the modern NBA, there is a ton of perimeter
Speaker 2: speed and athleticism, and teams are trying to drive and
Speaker 2: kick you to death once they get into rotation, whether
Speaker 2: it's through the post or whether it's through pick and roll.
Speaker 2: You need perimeter speed, you need perimeter strength. And the
Speaker 2: Lakers have perimeter speed and strength in the form of
Speaker 2: Jared Vanderbilt in the form of Max Christy, right Like.
Speaker 2: They have guys that can do that sort of thing
Speaker 2: they need more Like, I'm a big believer that even
Speaker 2: the Jared Vanderbilt in the starting lineup situation has some
Speaker 2: playoff limitations, And that's why I think a trade needs
Speaker 2: to be made, And that's why I'm kind of withholding
Speaker 2: any sort of big picture evaluation of the Lakers until
Speaker 2: that point. But the bottom line is that three man
Speaker 2: grouping with Tory and at the three very clearly is
Speaker 2: not good enough. They can't defend, they can't rebound. It's
Speaker 2: a huge problem They're bad on offense. They're bat on defense,
Speaker 2: a bat on the glass. It's like even even the
Speaker 2: spacing concepts that the Lakers are envisioning with toryn prints
Speaker 2: at the three are not coming to fruition. The offense
Speaker 2: is not good with that five man grouping, and it
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with Torrian making shots. Torrian Prince
Speaker 2: has had ten games this year where he's made at
Speaker 2: least four threes. The Lakers lost his minutes in six
Speaker 2: of those ten games. They're minus twenty in those ten games,
Speaker 2: so in Torrian's minutes in those ten games. So even
Speaker 2: when Torrean's got the three point shot going, it's not
Speaker 2: helping them. It is legitimately one of the most con like.
Speaker 2: It is legitimately one of the worst consistent coaching decisions
Speaker 2: I've seen made in a very long time. There are
Speaker 2: better basketball players than Torrian Prince on the roster right now,
Speaker 2: even if we acknowledge the Lakers need to make a trade,
Speaker 2: and Darvinham is deliberately handicapping the team by starting every
Speaker 2: single game in half with a lineup that is doomed
Speaker 2: to fail. And I don't really know what else to say.
Speaker 2: This is a consensus around the league, not just with
Speaker 2: Lakers fans, but with non Lakers fans. All of the
Speaker 2: data clearly demonstrates this, and Darvin ham is either completely
Speaker 2: oblivious to it or he just doesn't care. And it's
Speaker 2: it's it's truly confounding to me. Next question as a
Speaker 2: Dubs fan, aunt Man versus say Gil justs Alexander looks
Speaker 2: and feels like the new version of MJ versus Reggie.
Speaker 2: Both are great in their own way at the guard spot,
Speaker 2: and both are absolutely insane. I one hundred percent agree.
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about this this morning, like they're
Speaker 2: so different, Like Ant is this incredible athlete who plays
Speaker 2: with a ton of power and verticality, while Shay is
Speaker 2: like this thinner, longer player who brings physicality to the position,
Speaker 2: but it's much more finesse and skill oriented. And so
Speaker 2: it's one of my favorite things about the game of basketball.
Speaker 2: Two guys that basically play the same position, that are
Speaker 2: basically even the same height, but that just play fundamentally
Speaker 2: different brands of basketball. I think you guys know me,
Speaker 2: you guys know the way that I see the game.
Speaker 2: I am always gonna lean more towards that strength and
Speaker 2: power and so like, even though Sga may or may
Speaker 2: not be a better player right now, I think when
Speaker 2: we fast forward five years, it's far more likely that
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards is a more impactful playoff player because he
Speaker 2: brings that two way element. Not that Shay's not a
Speaker 2: good defender, but it's just a better defensive player, and
Speaker 2: he just has that strength and power element that he
Speaker 2: can inflict on the game. Next question, Chet has been
Speaker 2: so confusing to me on offense. When he's wide open
Speaker 2: for three he's been pump faking and looking to drive,
Speaker 2: but when he takes contested ones in the heat of
Speaker 2: the game, he tends to hit them. Seems like as
Speaker 2: much as he still has to develop, he is also
Speaker 2: in his head a bit right now. Would love to
Speaker 2: see him just take these open ones. So I've noticed
Speaker 2: this as well, and it's a classic young player thing.
Speaker 2: Young players are have a lot harder time seeing the
Speaker 2: forest for the trees. I know this because I was
Speaker 2: a young player once, obviously, and like what I talk
Speaker 2: about this concept all the time. Young players struggle to
Speaker 2: identify what works and keep doing it, and they struggle
Speaker 2: to identify what's not working and stop doing it. It's
Speaker 2: a it's they have a hard time seeing the bigger
Speaker 2: picture of basketball, and so the reason why he hits
Speaker 2: the contested one seemingly a big part of that is
Speaker 2: you just don't have much time to think about it.
Speaker 2: If it's a late clock situation and the ball ends
Speaker 2: up in your hands and a catch and shoot five
Speaker 2: on the shot clock that's relatively contested, but it's like
Speaker 2: the best shot your team can get on that possession.
Speaker 2: You just rise and fire. You don't think about it,
Speaker 2: and it can be the open ones that get in
Speaker 2: your head a little bit. But the bottom line is
Speaker 2: is like it would be really bizarre if we saw
Speaker 2: a kid his age that just was consistently great on
Speaker 2: a night and night out basis, month and month out basis.
Speaker 2: This is part of the growing pains of being a
Speaker 2: young basketball player. Next question, mail bag, love the show,
Speaker 2: where's your Rookie of the year so far? Or who's
Speaker 2: your rookie of the year so far the season? I'm
Speaker 2: a Spurs fan, so obviously I think Victor is your thoughts,
Speaker 2: so I agree it's Victor. A couple of different reasons
Speaker 2: for that, Like Chet's role with a thunder is very different.
Speaker 2: He's playing on a great team and getting set up
Speaker 2: with great opportunities as he's playing alongside great ball handlers.
Speaker 2: And that's not to say that Chet's not playing really well.
Speaker 2: Of course he is, and I'm a huge believer in
Speaker 2: Chet in the big picture. But Victor is playing on
Speaker 2: a team with some of the worst ball handling you'll
Speaker 2: ever see. And the bottom line is, I just think
Speaker 2: I just think Victor is a little bit better as
Speaker 2: a basketball player, and I think you're showing that. The
Speaker 2: most encouraging trend so far this season for the for
Speaker 2: Victor is the uptick in his efficiency. In his first
Speaker 2: twenty one games this year, he only shot forty three
Speaker 2: percent from the field, and as a team they went
Speaker 2: three to eighteen. In their last twenty games, Victor is
Speaker 2: averaging twenty two points and ten rebounds and four assists,
Speaker 2: fifty percent from the field thirty five percent from three
Speaker 2: sixty percent true shooting, and they're seven and thirteen. They're
Speaker 2: actually just a shade under five hundred. So you're just
Speaker 2: seeing really good progress on that front. Also, there just
Speaker 2: aren't that many rookies in NBA history that walk in
Speaker 2: and average twenty points a game. I think that's significant
Speaker 2: I think he's easily the rookie of the year at
Speaker 2: this point. Do you have a favorite move, slash, counter move,
Speaker 2: combo from a specific player? So, I have a lot
Speaker 2: of just like any basketball player, I have a lot
Speaker 2: of specific like moves and combos that I've picked up
Speaker 2: from people. There's a like, I have a lot of
Speaker 2: my in and out step backs or I stole from
Speaker 2: Damian Lillard. A lot of the footwork that I use
Speaker 2: on step back three's comes from James Harden. A lot
Speaker 2: of the like off the dribble, like combination stuff into
Speaker 2: pull up jump shots I've I've stolen from Paul George.
Speaker 2: But the biggest one that I would say my favorite
Speaker 2: is because my my biggest asset as a basketball player
Speaker 2: is my size and strength. I weighed two hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty five two hundred and thirty pounds depending on the
Speaker 2: depending on how much vacation I've been on lately and
Speaker 2: how much I've been eating and drinking, but I weigh
Speaker 2: a lot of I weigh a lot. I have long
Speaker 2: arms and I'm about six six, so uh, with that
Speaker 2: being the case, Like I play like a power back
Speaker 2: to the basket game against smaller guards when they try
Speaker 2: to guard me on the perimeter, and so the big
Speaker 2: one for me has been this. This is actually something
Speaker 2: I built out over COVID because it was not a
Speaker 2: part of my game when I was younger. But like
Speaker 2: basically just a back to the basket combination of right
Speaker 2: to left shoulder fades. So I have a drill that
Speaker 2: I do every single day, and I basically start on
Speaker 2: the left block, spin the ball out to myself, and
Speaker 2: I shoot a left shoulder fade and I shoot a
Speaker 2: right shoulder faith. Then I go to the opposite block
Speaker 2: and I shoot a left shoulder fad and I shoot
Speaker 2: a right shoulder fade, and I keep going until I
Speaker 2: make them, and then I go through that cycle four
Speaker 2: to five times, so I make twenty total turnaround fade aways,
Speaker 2: ten over each shoulder, and I say kawhi because like
Speaker 2: I steal like the contact oriented element of it. Like
Speaker 2: a lot of people take tough fade away shots that
Speaker 2: are more athleticism oriented, where they're like covering a ton
Speaker 2: of ground and jumping really high. Mine's more of like
Speaker 2: a I'm hitting you with my shoulder and I'm trying
Speaker 2: to create space so I can spin into it and
Speaker 2: more or less go straight up and down, and like
Speaker 2: that ended up being huge for me because when I
Speaker 2: was younger, I was a lot of off the dribble
Speaker 2: stuff from the perimeter, especially pull up threes and trying
Speaker 2: to slash off of that. I played a lot like
Speaker 2: more like Paul George at that phase in my career
Speaker 2: or my basketball life, i should say, because obviously I'm
Speaker 2: not a pro, but like the what ended up happening
Speaker 2: is a lot of the teams and players in town
Speaker 2: would start sticking smaller, quicker guards on me to press
Speaker 2: up and test my handle in quickness, and so it
Speaker 2: was important for me to build out a back to
Speaker 2: the basket game to counter that. And now it's like
Speaker 2: no team will put a small guard on me because
Speaker 2: I'll just take them down to the post every single time.
Speaker 2: And so that's been definitely my favorite move. Counter move
Speaker 2: combo is like I'm hitting you with that shoulder, and
Speaker 2: if you're overplaying the right side, I'm spinning off into
Speaker 2: that left shoulder fade. If you're playing me straight up,
Speaker 2: I'm spinning into that right shoulder fade. And then obviously
Speaker 2: important caveat, I do not think I'm a professional basketball
Speaker 2: player in the NBA. This is just simply talking the
Speaker 2: game because I love the game, and I still play
Speaker 2: the game, and I still love playing the game, all right,
Speaker 2: next question, I'm a football fan through and through first,
Speaker 2: but I've been watching basketball a lot more and thoroughly
Speaker 2: enjoying it as I learn more, as I learned about
Speaker 2: the more techno parts. With this in mind, we've seen
Speaker 2: the Celtics team be one of the best teams for
Speaker 2: the last three years now, and with those three years
Speaker 2: not resulting in a single championship. I understand a championship
Speaker 2: is hard to get, but if I compare it to football,
Speaker 2: it's like the Ravens versus the Chiefs number one seed
Speaker 2: but can never punch it in. Is there a point
Speaker 2: in being such a good team if you've never won
Speaker 2: anything from it? And can you eventually write a team
Speaker 2: off if they can't punch it in the postseason? So,
Speaker 2: first of all, football and basketball fundamentally different in the
Speaker 2: way that like a quarterback, a quarterback can impact winning
Speaker 2: right like Aaron Rodgers, in my opinion, is the second
Speaker 2: best quarterback of that era that Tom Brady era, right,
Speaker 2: and he just didn't have nearly as much playoff success
Speaker 2: because of all the different moving parts in an eleven
Speaker 2: man unit on offense, in an eleven unit on defense. Right,
Speaker 2: Like we've even seen Patrick Mahomes. It's like, oh, you
Speaker 2: have a couple of injuries on your offensive line. Now
Speaker 2: you're running for your life, and a Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Speaker 2: team with a pretty limited version of Tom Brady beats you, right, Like,
Speaker 2: we've seen how that can happen. So basketball is more
Speaker 2: more a sport where the best player can impact the outcome.
Speaker 2: And you know, as much as like, as much as
Speaker 2: I have frustrations with the Celtics, the reason why I
Speaker 2: could never be done with them is Tatum is still
Speaker 2: relatively young. Like most of these guys don't really figure
Speaker 2: it out on the biggest stages until they're twenty seven
Speaker 2: to twenty eight years old. You know, every once in
Speaker 2: a while, you'll get a guy like a Yoki, you'll
Speaker 2: get it at twenty six, but it's like, for the
Speaker 2: most part, it's that twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight,
Speaker 2: twenty nine where they start to figure it out. And
Speaker 2: like Tatum's just now entering into that phase of his career.
Speaker 2: And so I think it'd be foolish to punt on
Speaker 2: that core until they at least have a few chances
Speaker 2: with Jason Tatum in the heart of his prime. Next
Speaker 2: question three more. You often talk about the Lakers' ability
Speaker 2: to turn it on in the playoffs, how their size
Speaker 2: and experience will be key in a Wolves or Thunder
Speaker 2: hypothetical matchup. But at one point does a size and
Speaker 2: experience advantage become a disadvantage. At what point do the
Speaker 2: big veteran Lakers become the slow old Lakers and the
Speaker 2: young inexperienced thunder slash Wolves become the youthful, hungry, and
Speaker 2: spry thunder slash Wolves. Eventually, these advantages slash disadvantages are
Speaker 2: going to flip in favor of the younger teams. You
Speaker 2: obviously think that that that won't happen this postseason, But
Speaker 2: if not this season, then went Lebron in forty ad
Speaker 2: is a thirty year old big man with a lot
Speaker 2: of mileage. The same also applies to teams like the Suns,
Speaker 2: Warriors and the Bucks and their younger counterparts the Kings
Speaker 2: the Pelicans in the Magic So, first of all, you
Speaker 2: guys want to hear a fun fact. Did you know
Speaker 2: that the Oklahoma City Thunder have only two players on
Speaker 2: the roster that are thirty years old or or older.
Speaker 2: That is Davis Barton's and Vasila jay Mesiich if I
Speaker 2: remember correctly, guess who else only has two thirty old
Speaker 2: players on the roster The Los Angeles Lakers. Every single
Speaker 2: player on that roster that's not Lebron James and Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis is less than thirty years old, and Anthony Davis
Speaker 2: is only thirty years old. The specific issue for the
Speaker 2: Lakers is they actually have a lot of youth and athleticism.
Speaker 2: Like Ruby Hachimura is an excellent athlete at that power
Speaker 2: forward position. Jared Vanderbilt is an excellent athlete at that
Speaker 2: power forward position. Max Christi camp British are excellent athletes
Speaker 2: at the two guard position, Jackson Hayes is an excellent
Speaker 2: athlete at the center position, and more is just the
Speaker 2: Lakers have this issue where the actual guys that are
Speaker 2: playing for them are not great athletes. Austin Reeves and
Speaker 2: Dangelo Russell at this point kind of have to play
Speaker 2: because of the way the roster is organized. But their
Speaker 2: issue is they play guys like Austin Dilo torn Prints
Speaker 2: massive minutes and they're not great athletes, and so even
Speaker 2: though they're young, they run into athleticism and there's a problem,
Speaker 2: and especially when Lebron James isn't engaged defensively. And I've
Speaker 2: said this many times on the show, but the reality
Speaker 2: is is Lebron's defensive engagement has been the primary culprit
Speaker 2: of the Lakers defensive issues. Like I can't tell you
Speaker 2: how many times I'm watching on tape and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: Lebron could have made a play there as the low man,
Speaker 2: and he just chose not to. And so one of
Speaker 2: the big reasons why the Lakers have been so good
Speaker 2: in like big time games on against big time opponents
Speaker 2: and then so bad in other situations is like Lebron
Speaker 2: just engages himself defensively, and suddenly the Lakers look more
Speaker 2: coherent defensively, and that goes a long way. Lakers have
Speaker 2: actually been one of the top ten defenses in the
Speaker 2: league this year against the top ten offenses in the league.
Speaker 2: The Laker defense goes up a level when they play
Speaker 2: better teams. My concern with the Lakers is are they
Speaker 2: going to be able at this deadline to turn one
Speaker 2: of those skill, non athletic players that's at the top
Speaker 2: end of their rotation, swap them out for a more
Speaker 2: athletic version of that type of rotation player, which is
Speaker 2: why I keep going back to players like a Dejante
Speaker 2: Murray or a Bruce Brown. I've also seen, like Royce
Speaker 2: O'Neill doin Finney Smith, potential combinations coming from the Brooklyn Nets.
Speaker 2: If they can find a way to turn their top
Speaker 2: part of their rotation, the guys that aren't Lebron and
Speaker 2: ad but the guys right below that into a more
Speaker 2: athletic group that is also capable of scoring the basketball
Speaker 2: or making shots, that would go a long way towards
Speaker 2: alleviating some of their issues. But yeah, the Lakers have
Speaker 2: a lot of issues. Age isn't one of them. They
Speaker 2: are not an old team. Lebron is old, and that's it.
Speaker 2: It's one hundred percent issue with the guys they play
Speaker 2: are primarily to unathletic, and so they have to find
Speaker 2: a way to balance their rotation so that there's a
Speaker 2: little bit less of the offensive skill and a little
Speaker 2: bit more of the power and force. All Right, two
Speaker 2: more questions. When the Pacers traded for Siakam, I thought
Speaker 2: it was a great move, but I still think they're
Speaker 2: all move away a significant move from being a contender.
Speaker 2: In your opinion, would you trade for McHale Bridges to
Speaker 2: make them a contender. I understand the Pacers would have
Speaker 2: to give up Jarris Walker, their recent lottery pick who
Speaker 2: has a high upside, but I think the move would
Speaker 2: be worth it. A starting lineup of Halle Mathrin, Bridges,
Speaker 2: Siakam Turner could make the Pacers contenders next season. What
Speaker 2: do you think? So I'd remind me if I'm wrong
Speaker 2: about this, But when I reacted to the Siakam trade,
Speaker 2: I think I might have pitched to McHale Bridge's trade.
Speaker 2: I can't quite remember. I don't want to take credit
Speaker 2: forward if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember saying something
Speaker 2: along those lines. I really like that fit there. That's
Speaker 2: a positional archetype they don't have They've got, you know,
Speaker 2: Aaron NEI Smith is the kind of perimeter oriented forward
Speaker 2: on the team. But the problem with Aaron Nee Smith
Speaker 2: is is just a little bit on the short side.
Speaker 2: I tend to like Aaron Neismith still because I think
Speaker 2: he's kind of in that Rus Brown archetype of like
Speaker 2: kind of lower center of gravity lots of strength, really
Speaker 2: physical at the point of attack, which I find to
Speaker 2: be very valuable, especially in a playoff setting. He also
Speaker 2: can shoot the ball and he can slash off of
Speaker 2: catch and shoot situation. So like I like Aaron E. Smith,
Speaker 2: but there's no doubt that Mikal Bridges would just be
Speaker 2: a much better version of that of that archetype, more length,
Speaker 2: more offensive pop. It's like a legitimate, you know, third
Speaker 2: creator next to Siakam and Albert, and I really like
Speaker 2: that setup. As far as championship contention goes, it's all
Speaker 2: about playoff lumps for me, Like nikol jokicch didn't win
Speaker 2: the title his first run through the playoffs. That dude
Speaker 2: has been in wars. He lost to Anthony Davis, lost
Speaker 2: to the Warriors twice. Like he's been to the playoffs
Speaker 2: a bunch of times. He's been in those wars, right,
Speaker 2: it took lots of loss and building of scar tissue,
Speaker 2: the hatred of losing to get to the point where
Speaker 2: he succeeded in twenty twenty three. And the same goes
Speaker 2: for Giannis. The same goes for every single one of
Speaker 2: these guys. There are lumps along the way. You don't
Speaker 2: just walk into the playoffs and start winning, so regardless
Speaker 2: of what the roster is. And this is a big believer.
Speaker 2: This is why I'm a big believer in getting there
Speaker 2: sooner than later. You want to get him to take
Speaker 2: those lumps a tyre Saliburton meaning. And so I think
Speaker 2: I love that idea, But the idea of them contending
Speaker 2: right away, I would think they would need to take
Speaker 2: a loss or two in the postseason for them to
Speaker 2: actually get to the level of commitment. They would need
Speaker 2: to win the title, all right. Last question, Hey, Jason,
Speaker 2: a quick hypothetical mail back. A lot of people have
Speaker 2: tatum over Lebron and their player rankings. However, I firmly
Speaker 2: believe the Celtics would have won with Lebron in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two and maybe even in twenty twenty three. What
Speaker 2: are your thoughts on this? So there's a huge difference
Speaker 2: between like ranking players for the entire campaign from training
Speaker 2: camp through the trophy to Okay, we're healthy and we're
Speaker 2: starting a seven game series tomorrow or playoff run tomorrow, right,
Speaker 2: And I actually talked about this in my player rankings
Speaker 2: this last summer, and I actually said in my player rankings,
Speaker 2: I think Lebron is a better playoff player than Jason Tatum,
Speaker 2: and he's healthy. But I think Jason Tatum has a
Speaker 2: much better chance of being healthy when we get there.
Speaker 2: And we actually saw last year Lebron, even though he
Speaker 2: got through the regular season, he got to the playoffs
Speaker 2: and he was hobbled, and so like, I tend to
Speaker 2: agree that I would take Lebron in a playoff setting
Speaker 2: over Jason Tatum. He's just more experienced. He just and
Speaker 2: at this point he's just Lebron's better than he was
Speaker 2: last year. Even but there's no doubt that Jason Tatum
Speaker 2: is a better player for the eighty two just because
Speaker 2: of his youth and his ability to kind of withstand
Speaker 2: the grind of the eighty two game season at this point.
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Speaker 2: minute tickets, lowest price guarantee. Well, we have a very
Speaker 2: very special show today. We have Carter Rodriguez from the
Speaker 2: Chase Down podcast, a podcast that covers the Cleveland Cavaliers
Speaker 2: who are absolutely scorching red hot right now. They've won
Speaker 2: fifteen of their last nineteen games, so some impressive wins
Speaker 2: in there. They got a couple wins against the Bucks,
Speaker 2: including that last one. We're like Milwaukee wanted to win
Speaker 2: that game and they and they just couldn't get it done.
Speaker 2: And then they on Monday had a big test against
Speaker 2: another red hot team and the Los Angeles Clippers, and
Speaker 2: a lot of the same stuff that's been working for
Speaker 2: them as of late continued to work and they notched
Speaker 2: yet another impressive win. I'm excited just to dive into
Speaker 2: the weeds on everything that's making this Cavs team a
Speaker 2: function right now and then also, they've got a lot
Speaker 2: of change on the horizon with some important players coming back.
Speaker 2: So Carter's gonna help us get to the bottom of
Speaker 2: all of it. So, Carter, this is where I want
Speaker 2: to start. Can you help explain to our listeners how
Speaker 2: the Calves managed to go up a level after losing
Speaker 2: Darius Garland and Evan Mobley for an extended struck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, as you mentioned, they're fifteen and four since
Speaker 1: those injuries were announced. Obviously, one of those wins was
Speaker 1: with Evan Mobley back in the lineup, who came back
Speaker 1: against the Clippers. But yeah, it was starting out as
Speaker 1: frankly a bad vibe season. You know that they have
Speaker 1: this really fun year after trading for Donovan Mitchell last year.
Speaker 1: They win fifty one games their favored against the next
Speaker 1: in the postseason, and then get run off the floor
Speaker 1: in pretty embarrassing fashion, to be honest. You know, they
Speaker 1: got just physically dominated in that series in a way
Speaker 1: that was hard to shake. So they go into the offseason,
Speaker 1: they get all the shooting that we thought they needed.
Speaker 1: You know, you're hearing great stuff out of camp, and
Speaker 1: then it comes out and it's like, oh, this doesn't
Speaker 1: feel good at all. You know, they start four and six,
Speaker 1: you know they're hovering around five hundred. They through sixteen games,
Speaker 1: they're eight and eight, and it's not even a good
Speaker 1: eight and eight. They're like, you know, minus two, minus
Speaker 1: three net rating, and you just start wondering, like, where's
Speaker 1: the Catharsis I was looking for?
Speaker 2: You know, like we were all like.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just get rid of that next series. And
Speaker 1: it just didn't feel good, like things felt gunky Darius
Speaker 1: Garland and you know the team got hurt right away,
Speaker 1: you know, Jared Allen missed time early on, Darius Garland
Speaker 1: missed time early on, then Donovan missed some time that
Speaker 1: they never were able to get healthy. And even when
Speaker 1: they were healthy, there were a lot of nagging injuries.
Speaker 1: You know, Darius had had hamstring issues, he had a
Speaker 1: rap on his shooting hand with some sort of hand
Speaker 1: injury that you know wasn't disclosed. Just felt like things
Speaker 1: weren't right. And so when on December fifteenth, I believe
Speaker 1: it was when the Evan Mobile and Darius Garland injuries announced,
Speaker 1: you just kind of go, well, okay, well it was
Speaker 1: already a bad, kind of a weird too bad vibe season.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just not their year, and maybe it's a
Speaker 1: lost season. And then of course they rattle off fifteen
Speaker 1: wins out of nineteen ten of their last eleven. Right,
Speaker 1: if you go to cleaning the glass and check their
Speaker 1: projected wins over the course of the season over this
Speaker 1: nineteen game stretch, they're on a sixty four win pace
Speaker 1: over that tineteen game stretch. So, I mean, they're kicking
Speaker 1: the snot out of teams. I'm gonna knock out the
Speaker 1: boring stuff. First, the schedule has been easy. They had
Speaker 1: one of the hardest schedules in the league to start
Speaker 1: the year. It lightened up in a major way. Even
Speaker 1: in some of their tougher matchups. You know they were
Speaker 1: playing you know, they host the Magic it's three and four.
Speaker 1: They play the Hawks, it's their third and four. They
Speaker 1: got they finally had some schedule luck bounced their way.
Speaker 1: Since that December fifteenth stretch, they've only played nineteen games.
Speaker 1: Twenty seven teams have played at least twenty two games
Speaker 1: in that same stretch, and I think the Pacers have
Speaker 1: played twenty six in the same stretch. That's crazy. You
Speaker 1: rarely see that. Now. Part of that was because the
Speaker 1: Caps had a week in Paris where they only played
Speaker 1: one game in eight days. But like it does matter,
Speaker 1: all this stuff matters. It doesn't matter to the point
Speaker 1: of being the best team in the league by net
Speaker 1: rating with two of your best three players out, So
Speaker 1: they've really had to lean into high variants offense.
Speaker 2: They are.
Speaker 1: They went from a pretty mediocre team in terms of
Speaker 1: three point frequency. They were only sixteenth. They are first
Speaker 1: by a lot.
Speaker 2: They they have.
Speaker 1: They're pretty much playing full more eble they are let's
Speaker 1: see here. Sorry, they're seventh in rim frequency first and
Speaker 1: three point frequency thirtieth from the mid range. So they
Speaker 1: it's tons of high variant shots. They're getting a lot
Speaker 1: up and like you might be, you know, you might
Speaker 1: think like, oh, maybe they're just they're just hot. They're
Speaker 1: hitting open threes. You know, we talked about shot luck
Speaker 1: all the time and the league, and we'll probably talk
Speaker 1: about that on the defensive end for them during the
Speaker 1: stretch where they've been getting a little luck. They have
Speaker 1: the number one shot profile in the league for cleaning
Speaker 1: the glass. They're only fifteenth in effective field goal percentage,
Speaker 1: so you know, they they actually could benefit from the
Speaker 1: talent that's coming back because even though they're generating great looks,
Speaker 1: they're not really converting them that well. They's second in
Speaker 1: the league and potential assists per game. So it's been
Speaker 1: a ton of ball movement. It's been it's been playing
Speaker 1: you know, it's been Jared Allen playing frankly out of
Speaker 1: his mind up front, you know, averaging career highs and assists,
Speaker 1: like not just being a role man with vertical gravity,
Speaker 1: but being a guy who can operate in the high
Speaker 1: post and run durable handoff action. It's been the revelation
Speaker 1: of Sam Merrill, who was you know and also ran
Speaker 1: that is now shooting the third most threes per one
Speaker 1: hundred possessions in NBA history on real minutes like twenty
Speaker 1: minutes a game and shooting around forty one percent on
Speaker 1: those attempts. It's it's Donovan Mitchell, I think, playing the
Speaker 1: best basketball of his career since he's since he's been
Speaker 1: with the team at least. And it is also just
Speaker 1: an absolute killer of a point of attack defense between
Speaker 1: Isaac o Kora and Dean Wade, who are consistently shutting
Speaker 1: off the water of the league's best players pretty much
Speaker 1: every night. So it's it's really an enormous amalgamation of
Speaker 1: these things that everything's just kind of going right for them.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: They I don't know if this has changed in the
Speaker 1: last week, but as of a week ago, every single
Speaker 1: player in their rotation during the stretch has had a
Speaker 1: positive net rating. They don't have any lineups that aren't working.
Speaker 1: They are, and you know, I my hope is that
Speaker 1: some of this stylistic stuff applies as the team gets
Speaker 1: healthy and that you know, they're just gonna they have
Speaker 1: found forty eight minutes of good lineups now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been super interesting to see. I think in
Speaker 2: a weird way, the injuries kind of stabilize some of
Speaker 2: the rapid fluctuation they were experiencing early in the season
Speaker 2: because that Mitchell Struss, Isaacacorro, Dean Wade, Jared Allen lineup
Speaker 2: has just been healthy and playing for a long time now,
Speaker 2: and they've they've been able to kind of build their
Speaker 2: own identity. As a matter of fact, they're one of
Speaker 2: only twenty two lineups in the league that have played
Speaker 2: at least two hundred minutes together this year. And specifically,
Speaker 2: I think Dean Wade him and he was the biggest
Speaker 2: surprise for me this year as I was pouring over
Speaker 2: the tape, just how gifted he was defensively, not just
Speaker 2: off the ball, but like consistently holding up in switches
Speaker 2: against different archetypes of players, not just wings but guards
Speaker 2: as well. He's got long arms, He's a good positional
Speaker 2: defender that just kind of forces guys to take tough
Speaker 2: shots over the top. And then honestly, like we know
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley and what his potential is, but right now,
Speaker 2: offensively with most of his touch related stuff, he's just
Speaker 2: so far behind where he needs to be for this
Speaker 2: team to be a really functional half court offense. That
Speaker 2: having a guy like Dean Wade that just kind of
Speaker 2: fills a traditional spot up type of role and a
Speaker 2: guy that just has a little bit more offensive touch
Speaker 2: at that four spot, I think has helped at least
Speaker 2: in the short term. Again, like there's obvious, obviously so
Speaker 2: much more long term potential with the guy like Evan Mobley.
Speaker 2: But the big one for me too, Donovan Mitchell, you
Speaker 2: said he's having the best season of his career. I
Speaker 2: one hundred percent agree, and it comes down to two
Speaker 2: things for me. The playmaking piece, he's just getting so
Speaker 2: much better at running an offense above and beyond his
Speaker 2: own shot hunting. But the second piece of it is
Speaker 2: Donovan's defending at a significantly better level than he ever
Speaker 2: has in his NBA career, his off ball awareness, jumping
Speaker 2: into passing lanes, his quickness in rotations. There's a play
Speaker 2: a steal that he had when James Harden was driving
Speaker 2: along the baseline where he jumped from the weak side
Speaker 2: wing into the passing lane and got the steal as
Speaker 2: he went the other way, and I'm like, I'm like,
Speaker 2: he's a step ahead of some of this stuff in
Speaker 2: a way that he used to be very passive. Those
Speaker 2: outs that he's showing on that week side when he's
Speaker 2: digging down to help and then chasing guys off the
Speaker 2: line because he has such incredible quickness. It's funny. I
Speaker 2: used to have concerns and the big picture about the
Speaker 2: Darius Garland Donovan Mitchell backcourt just from the same point
Speaker 2: of two smaller guards that have some limitations on that
Speaker 2: end of the floor. But Donovan Mitchell's rise on the
Speaker 2: defensive end completely makes it tenable in my opinion, and
Speaker 2: it's been one of the biggest developments of this season.
Speaker 2: And then honestly, like I think one of the other
Speaker 2: pieces that's really helped them on the offensive end of
Speaker 2: the floor is just getting out in transition, which again
Speaker 2: requires that certain bit of defensive intensity and playmaking. But
Speaker 2: they've been one of the best transition offenses in the
Speaker 2: league this year, and they are a classic case of
Speaker 2: a team that uses their defense to generate higher quality
Speaker 2: offensive opportunities. That lineup Mitchell Strus, Isaac Corro, Dean Wade,
Speaker 2: and Jared Allen. They're the seventh best offense out of
Speaker 2: the twenty two lineups that have run at least two
Speaker 2: hundred minutes, the second best defense, the second best net rating.
Speaker 2: They grab fifty four percent of available rebounds, that's the
Speaker 2: fourth best out of all those lineups, and they have
Speaker 2: a two point six assist to turnover ratio, which ranks
Speaker 2: fifth out of that group. They've been one of the
Speaker 2: best lineups in basketball, and it's crazy because, like you said,
Speaker 2: there's more talent on the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they've been really wonderful together, and I
Speaker 1: do think to some extent there is a degree of
Speaker 1: like simplifying your options sometimes, especially in the regular season,
Speaker 1: can be really nice. You know, like there's a clear hierarchy.
Speaker 1: The decision making is simple. You know, Jared Allen doesn't
Speaker 1: get to have to think about what like, oh, I've
Speaker 1: got the ball in the short role, do I try
Speaker 1: to hit it to Evan in the dunker spot or
Speaker 1: do I just to tell you it's like no, he
Speaker 1: just has to be decisive because they have a lack
Speaker 1: of options. So a guy like Dean Wade that you mentioned,
Speaker 1: if you ask, you know, diehard Cavs fans what they
Speaker 1: might have a gripe about Dina's Sometimes he just disappears
Speaker 1: out there. You won't see him. You know, he'll play
Speaker 1: thirty minutes and have two field goal attempts. Well, you
Speaker 1: can't do that when you don't have Darius and Evan
Speaker 1: to eat up shot volume. Like the Cavs can't sacrifice
Speaker 1: good for great. You know, this has been a great
Speaker 1: cab stands hat with Darius Garland, who doesn't shoot enough
Speaker 1: from three, And like something I saw it put this
Speaker 1: way with Darius that I thought was really funny, which
Speaker 1: is like Darius knows that an open three has like
Speaker 1: one point two points per possession. You know that's a
Speaker 1: great shot. But like I think deep in Darius's core.
Speaker 1: He feels like he's going to get two points per
Speaker 1: possession if he just gets into the lane because he
Speaker 1: he's so confident he's going to be able to set
Speaker 1: up a wide open layup or dunk for someone else. So,
Speaker 1: like I do think there has been a simplicity of
Speaker 1: options with the group that has kind of with that
Speaker 1: group that makes things much easier on the offensive end.
Speaker 1: And also it's just a stifling group on the defensive
Speaker 1: end of the floor, you know, where you know, Okoro
Speaker 1: can be the lead point of attack. Strus gets to
Speaker 1: very comfortably guard the team's second or third best options
Speaker 1: instead while Dean guards up. With that said, I do
Speaker 1: want to push back a little bit on, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the some of the Evan Mobley numbers. The
Speaker 1: team starting lineup with Isaacle Coro in it at the
Speaker 1: three last year had a one twenty one point six
Speaker 1: offensive rating in about four hundred minutes. Like, this is
Speaker 1: a group that was very successful despite some very clear
Speaker 1: inherent spacing limitations. I wouldn't expect that number to get
Speaker 1: worse with Max Strus in for Isaacle Coro, you know,
Speaker 1: and like you mentioned, some of the defensive concerns that
Speaker 1: some folks have with a very small backcourt. One of
Speaker 1: the ways you insulate against that is to have a
Speaker 1: very very big front court in Evan and Jarrett who
Speaker 1: can help protect I think the inverse has kind of
Speaker 1: been done on the offensive end to protect the space
Speaker 1: and concerns that you have with a Jarrett in An Evan.
Speaker 1: You know, if Darius, Donovan and Max are being the
Speaker 1: volume three point shooters that the team needs them to be,
Speaker 1: you know, I do think a lot of those concerns
Speaker 1: about you know, you know, the shape of the floor
Speaker 1: go away. You know, no one ever criticizes the Warriors
Speaker 1: for having two non shooters on the floor because they
Speaker 1: have two of the best shooters of all time in
Speaker 1: the back court juicing those numbers, so, you know, like
Speaker 1: I do think there is a degree to which that
Speaker 1: simplicity of options has forced those guys into you know,
Speaker 1: more decisive action. What I really want the team to
Speaker 1: learn is, no matter what our talent level on the
Speaker 1: floor is, Hey, if I'm Dean Wade and I'm opening
Speaker 1: and open in the corner, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: I have to shoot. I just have to.
Speaker 1: But if I'm Darius and I get a kickout from Donovant.
Speaker 1: I have to let it fly because a lot of
Speaker 1: this stuff is just volume stuff. It's not that they're
Speaker 1: shooting the cover off the ball. They're just tweaking their
Speaker 1: shop profile this much that is leading towards way, way,
Speaker 1: way better results. And like, that's what I think is
Speaker 1: really cool about this is I'm not seeing anything unsustainable here.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to put Evan back into the lineup
Speaker 1: for thirty minutes a game, and that does con seevably
Speaker 1: drink your spacing. But really like Darius coming back should
Speaker 1: take you know, his volume, and Evans volume should certainly
Speaker 1: be able to offset Isaac Okorro and Dean Wade's volume
Speaker 1: from three. You know, like we're not trying to We're
Speaker 1: not replacing you know, twenty three point at SEMs with zero.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really twelve for what should be ten,
Speaker 1: you know. And I don't expect to see a guy
Speaker 1: like Sam Merril out of the rotation either, and talk
Speaker 1: about a reason that the three point volume is used.
Speaker 1: They got a guy take in seventeen threes per one
Speaker 1: hundred possessions. So it's it's a really interesting kind of
Speaker 1: theory versus practice experiment that's going on here, because like,
Speaker 1: I don't see any reason why the Caps can't continue
Speaker 1: to do what they're doing no matter who's on the floor.
Speaker 1: It's really about what the players decide to do with
Speaker 1: the opportunities in front of them.
Speaker 2: To me, so I want to actually want to skip
Speaker 2: ahead here for a second because we're talking about Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley on the offensive end of the floor. And I
Speaker 2: actually find this super interesting because I thought, I thought
Speaker 2: there was a lot of a lot that went wrong
Speaker 2: for Cleveland in the Knicks series, and some of the
Speaker 2: stuff that was a little bit under, a little bit
Speaker 2: was under the surface because there was so much talk
Speaker 2: about the shooting, and I obviously that's an issue that
Speaker 2: this roster needed to address. And they have gone up
Speaker 2: a little bit. They went up from twenty eighth then
Speaker 2: spot up efficiency last year according to Senergy to sixteenth
Speaker 2: this year, so there's been some improvement there, and I
Speaker 2: could argue they could even go up a level over
Speaker 2: the course of the season, and they have been trending up.
Speaker 2: The numbers have been going in the right direction. But
Speaker 2: Mitchell Robinson dominated Mobley and Allen in that series, but
Speaker 2: it was on both ends of the floor. It was
Speaker 2: the offensive glass, but one of the bigger issues was
Speaker 2: the Cavs are a very high volume pick and roll offense.
Speaker 2: It's the primary source of their offensive initiation that they
Speaker 2: play off of. And last year one of the constructs
Speaker 2: that they went with was Jared Allen in the dunker
Speaker 2: spot with Evan Mobley setting the ball screen and so
Speaker 2: he kind of roll into space and Mitchell Robinson would
Speaker 2: basically split the difference between the two and bait Evan
Speaker 2: into some of his weaknesses, and specifically right now, Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley is an excellent cutter who can finish in traffic
Speaker 2: above the rim, but he struggles with touch shots, he
Speaker 2: struggles with floaters, he struggles with hooks, he struggles with
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff in the mid range. And so, honestly,
Speaker 2: like that to me, is is and you invest in
Speaker 2: that hoping that he improves over time and it works out.
Speaker 2: And I agree that the upside of the two of
Speaker 2: them together defensively in the front court can can kind
Speaker 2: of can kind of counteract a lot of that issue.
Speaker 2: But you know, I do wonder if you're worried at
Speaker 2: all about the Mobley Allen front court just strictly from
Speaker 2: the standpoint of like how that short role situation works
Speaker 2: and how Evan Mobley struggles with it. He was zero
Speaker 2: for ten shooting out of the short role in the
Speaker 2: Knixt series last year and once again this year zero
Speaker 2: point eighty nine points per possession on rollman possessions. There
Speaker 2: are forty eight players in the league that have logged
Speaker 2: at least fifty He ranks forty sixth in that group.
Speaker 2: And so do you let me just put it to
Speaker 2: you this way, what do you think the cat will do?
Speaker 2: Because they are going to lean into that front court?
Speaker 2: What do you think the Calves will do to address
Speaker 2: that specifically?
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up their their pick and roll
Speaker 1: attack because it was just horribly anemic. Uh in the
Speaker 1: in that series. Do you know what Evan Mobley's points
Speaker 1: per possession as a roleman.
Speaker 2: Was in that series? It was really bad?
Speaker 1: Was zero point zero eight? I mean that's I mean
Speaker 1: that that is a practical zero. He scored one point
Speaker 1: as a role man in the whole series. Uh. And like,
Speaker 1: obviously that can't continue. What I So, I do have
Speaker 1: some of those concerns, but I do think the Calves
Speaker 1: have more optionality and some of that stuff is a
Speaker 1: better space floor for those actions. You know, you can't
Speaker 1: dig with the third guy as easily. If Max Struce
Speaker 1: is in the corner as opposed to isaacle Kor who
Speaker 1: was not being guarded and he's shooting the lights eye,
Speaker 1: he's actually not. He's actually like in the low to
Speaker 1: mid thirties right now from three uh, he's in catching
Speaker 1: shoo situations and spot up situations. He's been much better
Speaker 1: than that, and that's kind of what the Calves were
Speaker 1: banking on. And you know, hopefully when you get some
Speaker 1: easier threes with Darius on the floor again, the main
Speaker 1: percentages will rise because he's taken some really tough ones,
Speaker 1: so there's better spacing. I think there's also just more optionality.
Speaker 1: I think they've seen how well Jared's done in the
Speaker 1: short role this year, and I think you can invert
Speaker 1: that based on the personnel you're being guarded with in
Speaker 1: a way.
Speaker 2: That they I was thinking the same thing, what if
Speaker 2: you just said.
Speaker 1: They weren't as comfortable doing that last year? And I
Speaker 1: think Jarrett's high post playmaking during this stretch as well
Speaker 1: as his dunkers, you know, as well as his you know,
Speaker 1: his floater game, which has been really really good. He's
Speaker 1: been the team's you know, probably their best mid range
Speaker 1: shooter on very low volume. Like I think you can
Speaker 1: invert that and you can just get Mitchell Robinson out
Speaker 1: of the way a lot better because if he has
Speaker 1: to go, if he has to go hard hedge against
Speaker 1: Darius Sir Donovan, then you know, now now it's Julius
Speaker 1: Randall having to come up in those help spots. I
Speaker 1: also think, frankly, like they just have more options. You know,
Speaker 1: Danny Green ended up being their seventh man, you know,
Speaker 1: like they didn't have as many as many criticisms as
Speaker 1: there were levied against JB. Bickerstaff, some of which I
Speaker 1: think are fair. Dean Wade couldn't lift his arm above
Speaker 1: his shoulder because his shoulder was so injured last year
Speaker 1: and they were playing, you know, a fresh off of
Speaker 1: a destroyed knee, Danny Green, like real rotation minutes, They
Speaker 1: couldn't really go to a smaller lineup or a spaceier lineup.
Speaker 1: Like Dean shooting really really well. George Niang is the
Speaker 1: one of the most reliable corner three point shooters in
Speaker 1: the league. Like, so if they do run into a
Speaker 1: matchup where the two big lineup is getting tested. I
Speaker 1: think they have a lot more options around it, and
Speaker 1: like frankly, I just think they're doing better against the drop.
Speaker 1: They they've killed the Bucks on offense this year, even
Speaker 1: with Giannis on the floor, They've killed Jokis, they killed
Speaker 1: him Bead, you know, teams that really like to play
Speaker 1: in that drop, they've done a really really good job
Speaker 1: manipulating that, whether it's via floaters from the guards, pull
Speaker 1: up threes like this has clearly been a focus of
Speaker 1: Theirs to attack the drop because it killed them so much.
Speaker 1: And I think I think that they have just not
Speaker 1: only do they have a better toolkit, I think their
Speaker 1: players are just playing better. Like I think, as much
Speaker 1: as we want to talk about, you know, roster construction
Speaker 1: and archetypes, I think most of the Caves just played
Speaker 1: really bad in that series, you know, and like it's
Speaker 1: really hard to overcome Donovan Mitchell just not hitting open
Speaker 1: pull ups in that Calves offense, and he didn't make
Speaker 1: a lot of them. Darius didn't make a lot of them.
Speaker 1: Evan missed every FLOATERY tried, Jarrett got completely was you know,
Speaker 1: non existent on offense. I think they learned a lot
Speaker 1: of lessons and and you know the things that they
Speaker 1: couldn't learn, like you can't learn spacing and shooting. So
Speaker 1: they went and got that. But you look at at
Speaker 1: the other thing that killed them in that series, which
Speaker 1: is rebounding. I mean, they were after the All Star
Speaker 1: break last year, they were the worst defensive rebounding team
Speaker 1: in the league. In the playoffs, they were certainly the
Speaker 1: worst defensive rebounding team in the postseason. And Mitchell Robinson,
Speaker 1: Josh Hart, it wasn't just Mitchell Robinson, it was everyone.
Speaker 1: Everyone on the Knicks was just beasting against the Calves
Speaker 1: on the offensive glass. And it's one of the only
Speaker 1: reasons the Knicks where ever to win the series, because
Speaker 1: they couldn't score either in the half court they had,
Speaker 1: you know, Jalen Brunson had a horrible series from an
Speaker 1: efficiency perspective. It was just that the Cavs couldn't score,
Speaker 1: and you know, every extra bucket they got off on
Speaker 1: offensive board felt that much more painful. Since December fifteenth,
Speaker 1: they are first in the league in defensive rebound rate,
Speaker 1: their third in offensive rebound rate, second overall, like and
Speaker 1: that's with no functional personnel changes that should make that
Speaker 1: the case. And I think that those are one of
Speaker 1: those things where you go, hey, if we just changed
Speaker 1: the way we're playing a little bit and decide to
Speaker 1: care about this a little more, will be a lot better,
Speaker 1: you know that. Like they've been playing with one sinner,
Speaker 1: really one traditional big and then Tristan Thompson for fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes a game, who is, by the way, not a
Speaker 1: good defensive rebounder and never has been, and yet they're
Speaker 1: cleaning the glass at a rate that they never have
Speaker 1: been able to do. So, Like, I think there's just
Speaker 1: been a lot of improvement to make that. Now that
Speaker 1: series would still scare me, don't get me wrong, but
Speaker 1: like I do think that they have just both in
Speaker 1: the things they've worked on in their game and schematically
Speaker 1: within their roster construction, been able to address some of
Speaker 1: those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, never underestimated good asking, Yeah, and what it can
Speaker 2: do for a team, Like I had a mailback question
Speaker 2: earlier today from a pacerspan that was like, oh, what
Speaker 2: if we did this, Like, could we contend right away?
Speaker 2: And one of my long standing theories is like there's
Speaker 2: like two steps to this. It's getting the right group
Speaker 2: of guys but also it's going through the battles. You
Speaker 2: got to go through the battles, you got to lose,
Speaker 2: and like, because there really is another level of intensity
Speaker 2: in the NBA Playoffs that you have to be able
Speaker 2: to reach, and it requires a level of desperation that
Speaker 2: I think losing helps you get to. And you know
Speaker 2: a lot of the specifically on the schematic side. I
Speaker 2: love that you brought up inverting it because I was
Speaker 2: thinking the exact same thing. Like, Evan Mobley's strength offensively
Speaker 2: right now is he's got a ton of vertical pop
Speaker 2: right under the rim and he can dunk everything. And
Speaker 2: so like, if you can, if you can set him
Speaker 2: up with opportunities down there, he can be a useful
Speaker 2: vertical spacer. Jared Allen in this recent stretch has shown
Speaker 2: some really good play out of that short role position.
Speaker 2: So like, that's where you could imagine with it inverted.
Speaker 2: Not only are you pulling a Mitchell Robinson or whoever
Speaker 2: the bigger rim protector is further away from the basket,
Speaker 2: but you're also just putting those two guys in a
Speaker 2: position where they're more likely to succeed and then just
Speaker 2: down the roster, I like you mentioned guys not playing
Speaker 2: well in general. Above and beyond that, guys have gotten
Speaker 2: better going into the season, Like a lot of these
Speaker 2: guys have patched up specific weaknesses, Like Donovan Mitchell has
Speaker 2: gone up a level as a playmaker and as a
Speaker 2: defensive player. He's a better basketball player than he was
Speaker 2: this time last year. Isaaca Korro last year was a
Speaker 2: guy that you could afford to leave open. This year,
Speaker 2: a catch and shoot jump shot for Isaaca Corro is
Speaker 2: worth one point one five points. You know, unguarded one
Speaker 2: is worth one point almost one point two points. So
Speaker 2: like Isaaca Corro has now turned into a legitimate three
Speaker 2: and D option that you can't afford to leave open,
Speaker 2: and he will make you pay, Like Dean Wade obviously
Speaker 2: growth all over the place, Like they just guys are
Speaker 2: getting better, and it's and it's gonna.
Speaker 1: Turns out a roster full of twenty three year olds
Speaker 1: and twenty two year olds gets better.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that kind of got lost
Speaker 1: in the in the quote unquote all in move for
Speaker 1: Donovan Mitchell is like, dude, all these guys are like
Speaker 1: twenty two. You know, Isaacle Coro is only a few
Speaker 1: months older than Evan Mobley, Like like they are this
Speaker 1: is a bunch of kids, man, and like it's really
Speaker 1: really exciting to see that they're all growing, they're all
Speaker 1: getting better, and like, you know, I talked a lot
Speaker 1: about one of my pet peeves Jason in basketball coverage
Speaker 1: is when people talk about culture, because a lot of
Speaker 1: times it's like a lot of times it's just a
Speaker 1: team full of young guys had an unexpectedly good run,
Speaker 1: and then we'll see this glowing like profile where a
Speaker 1: reporter goes and spends two weeks with them and talks
Speaker 1: about all the things they do in culturally, and then
Speaker 1: when they suck again, like a year later, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess the culture wasn't there, and like so like
Speaker 1: I always find culture to be like better tested when
Speaker 1: you suck or when things are going wrong, and like
Speaker 1: this was a go wrong start of the year for
Speaker 1: the team. They didn't they weren't playing well. Then they
Speaker 1: got banged up, and like I feel like that is
Speaker 1: the test of what the team has kind of built
Speaker 1: in terms of the kind of guys they brought in,
Speaker 1: and like they've passed that test with flying colors, and
Speaker 1: another one's coming by the way because a lot of
Speaker 1: guys who deserve to get minutes are about to get
Speaker 1: dropped out of the rotation or you know, severely get
Speaker 1: their minute. But like, your culture is continually tested, and
Speaker 1: like I find it really interesting how much time is
Speaker 1: spent talking about culture when a team is on the rise.
Speaker 1: Like I've seen more pieces about the Calves culture over
Speaker 1: the last two years than I've seen now, and I
Speaker 1: think now is the best time to write that piece.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's so well put. And like, specifically
Speaker 2: in the NBA regular season, all it really takes is
Speaker 2: like a good stretch of health, with the decent stretch
Speaker 2: of the schedule with a good young athletic group for
Speaker 2: you to put together a win start. I mean we
Speaker 2: just we literally just saw this with the Utah Jazz
Speaker 2: like over the course of the previous couple of months,
Speaker 2: and one hundred percent agree with you. It's when there's
Speaker 2: expectations and you don't live up. It's when there's frustration,
Speaker 2: and it's when there are those big picture topics that
Speaker 2: are getting thrown around, Like I can say it from
Speaker 2: this show. We did a segment the day after the
Speaker 2: Darius Garland and Evan mobile Evan mobile injuries were announced,
Speaker 2: We're like, what if the Calves decided to trade Donovan Mitchell,
Speaker 2: who would want it? Like that, that's literally the direction
Speaker 2: the narrative was going. And instead of leaning into that,
Speaker 2: they said, no, screw this, We're gonna go win a
Speaker 2: bunch of basketball games. And like you mentioned, the young
Speaker 2: players in their improvement, that to me is the most
Speaker 2: exciting part about this team because to me, Evan Mobley
Speaker 2: has so much room to improve. And I look at
Speaker 2: that as upside because like, legitimately, if this dude can
Speaker 2: figure out some of this other stuff, it goes such
Speaker 2: a long way towards bolstering the specific potential of this unit.
Speaker 2: Because you know, one of the unique places where Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley's actually had some success this year is in ISO,
Speaker 2: Like straight up ISO, He's had some moments like that, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: And like, what is the one thing that this team
Speaker 2: doesn't really have offensively is another way to initiate offense
Speaker 2: that isn't pick and roll. And so you can imagine
Speaker 2: a version of this kind of like what Jonathan Kaminga
Speaker 2: does for the Warriors, where it's like you're clearing the
Speaker 2: side for face up ISOs and post ups for Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley to get the defense into rotation and to play
Speaker 2: out of that. That's long term. That's not something that's
Speaker 2: gonna happen this year, but like that's the potential in
Speaker 2: the long run. So obviously, the trade deadline is about
Speaker 2: a week and a day away. Uh And you mentioned
Speaker 2: even the reality of their rotation and the fact that
Speaker 2: they just have more good players than they did last year,
Speaker 2: and there's gonna be some guys that get squeezed, uh
Speaker 2: as as the minutes get tighter around around the next
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. So do you think the Calves will
Speaker 2: be an active team at the deadline? I don't.
Speaker 1: And normally this is this has been a thing. Kobe
Speaker 1: likes making trades at the deadline. He's been a one
Speaker 1: of the more active gms. They didn't make trade a
Speaker 1: less deadline. Every Cavs fan was furious. I was even
Speaker 1: I was pretty bummed as well. But this year I
Speaker 1: think it is much much more justified. And I think
Speaker 1: really it comes down to a couple of things, like
Speaker 1: thing one, you're you're you can treat Darius and Evan
Speaker 1: Ashier trade deadline upgrades, and you just don't really have.
Speaker 1: It's a weird mix of they don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of tradable assets because they can't trade any first right now,
Speaker 1: they can only trade wops And then if they want
Speaker 1: to trade anyone in their rotation, then you know they
Speaker 1: have to they have to get someone a lot better
Speaker 1: or what's the point, you know, Like you can look
Speaker 1: to trade Kars Lavert, but if you if you trade him,
Speaker 1: then it has to be a meaningful upgrade. Like Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna throw out a fake trade that won't happen.
Speaker 1: But let's say you could trade Karris Lavert for like, uh,
Speaker 1: Dorian Finney Smith straight up, which you couldn't, by the way,
Speaker 1: you couldn't like Dorian Phinney Smith would add something really
Speaker 1: really valuable. But is that thing so much more valuable
Speaker 1: than whatever Dean Wade and George Niang are giving you
Speaker 1: in those in those exactly four minutes that you're also
Speaker 1: willing to lose all the playmaking Carris is giving you,
Speaker 1: Like I just don't you know, it's I'm like any fan,
Speaker 1: I'm on the trade machine all the time, just you know,
Speaker 1: messing around, and I can't find anything that feels good,
Speaker 1: you know, feels good that you wouldn't get laughed out
Speaker 1: of the room for asking for so, Like, they're just
Speaker 1: at a spot where I'm not crazy interested in marginal
Speaker 1: upgrades spending a ton of pick capital. Like the only
Speaker 1: thing I could see is like maybe bolstering that backup five,
Speaker 1: given that Tristan Thompson is uh, you know, on a
Speaker 1: suspension for for you know, drug policy violations and which
Speaker 1: is ridiculous and wild. But given that, and you know,
Speaker 1: Damian Jones hasn't really been someone they want to play
Speaker 1: in in competitive minutes. Like maybe you look there, but like,
Speaker 1: are you really gonna want to give up draft compensation
Speaker 1: to improve on a spot that if you're healthy in
Speaker 1: the postseason you want to be playing zero minutes? Like it,
Speaker 1: I just don't see the move Jason, Like, and every
Speaker 1: move I see is either like too much for too little,
Speaker 1: or or like just to help another team, And I'm
Speaker 1: not crazy interested in helping other teams solve their problems
Speaker 1: at the expense of our own.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. When I was sitting down this morning,
Speaker 2: I was trying to conceptualize ideas for what a trade
Speaker 2: for the Cavs would look like, and I literally couldn't
Speaker 2: eve and come up with one that I liked. I
Speaker 2: thought about Dorian Phinney Smith and thought the same thing.
Speaker 2: Dean Wade's just better.
Speaker 1: And like Dorian might be like the best blend of
Speaker 1: Wade in George, where you know Wade does go through
Speaker 1: big shooting slumps, so or just big periods of inactivity.
Speaker 1: You're probably not going to get that from DFS, and
Speaker 1: George can't guard the way DFS can guard. So maybe
Speaker 1: he is that ultimate mashup, But like the road to
Speaker 1: getting him, even if you could just it just kind
Speaker 1: of feels like an inefficient use of resources. And if
Speaker 1: I'm Kobe Aldman in the front office, I just would
Speaker 1: keep my powder dry until the summer where I have
Speaker 1: a tradable first, you know, like I just I just
Speaker 1: don't see the clear upgrades here.
Speaker 2: And the more I look at the rotation too, you
Speaker 2: start to think about a player coming back in that
Speaker 2: deal and it's like it's like, okay, what about the
Speaker 2: backup five? And it's like, actually, I like trying to
Speaker 2: find more minutes for Evan Mobley at the backup five
Speaker 2: to carve out more minutes for Dean Wade. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: what about shot creation. It's like Craig Porter Junior is
Speaker 2: like an interesting little shot creator that's kind of squeezed
Speaker 2: from the rotation right now. So like I don't think
Speaker 2: they have any sort of need there. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: what about those minutes is like that kind of swing shooter.
Speaker 2: It's like between the Extrus and Isaacacoro and and uh
Speaker 2: in Sam maryl It's like they don't really necessarily have
Speaker 2: minutes available in that in that position. It's like they're
Speaker 2: really they really do have a very deep roster in
Speaker 2: a way that they did.
Speaker 1: If you could do like a three for one where
Speaker 1: you could get three solid rotation players for a really
Speaker 1: really really good one, awesome, But like I don't think
Speaker 1: the Cavs players have value like that, you know, Like
Speaker 1: so like you know, sure everyone might like Dean Wade, conceptually,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to go get like like
Speaker 1: a B plus starting level four for him in Kars
Speaker 1: la Verte, you know, so, like it's it just makes
Speaker 1: sense to figure out what they have. Like my big
Speaker 1: gripe about last year's postseason, my big gripe about them
Speaker 1: not making a deal when I thought they should, was
Speaker 1: that the roster construction was so out of whack because
Speaker 1: you got to remember that Donovan Mitchell trade was late
Speaker 1: in the off season, Like their off season was done
Speaker 1: by the time they made that trade.
Speaker 2: So like what my gripe with the rest of.
Speaker 1: The roster in last year's postseason was, it was it
Speaker 1: was format in a way that made it really hard
Speaker 1: for me to evaluate the core four, Like was Evan
Speaker 1: horrible on the short role because Evan's not good enough
Speaker 1: on the short roll? Or was it because Isaaca o
Speaker 1: Korro's man was tagging him every time he tried to
Speaker 1: to drive you know? So, like all I wanted from
Speaker 1: the Caves off season was to build a roster that
Speaker 1: allowed me to adequately evaluate how good the Calves core
Speaker 1: four guys are and how well they play together. I
Speaker 1: think their roster does that right this second, and until
Speaker 1: I have that data point in another postseason, I'm just
Speaker 1: not crazy interested in another wild swim.
Speaker 2: One D agree with you? All right, I've got I've
Speaker 2: got three rapid fire questions for you before we get
Speaker 2: out of here. Question number one, what and if you
Speaker 2: don't want to use specific player names, you can use archetypes.
Speaker 2: What do you think the core five man lineup looks
Speaker 2: like for the Calves in five years, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know exactly what it looks like, but I'll say
Speaker 1: what I would like to see. You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1: Uh this has been a running joke on our podcast,
Speaker 1: is that at the three I would really like, you know,
Speaker 1: a big playmaking wing, you know, like a guy like
Speaker 1: Utah Gordon Hayward or or even Boston Gordon Hayward. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe a step down, but like a guy who can
Speaker 1: run a secondary pick and roll, because one of the
Speaker 1: problems that Calves do have is most they're dribbling comes
Speaker 1: from guys that are six to one, you know, so
Speaker 1: so a shooty playmaker, you know, a guy who's like
Speaker 1: maybe a BB plus at shooting, playmaking and defending. But
Speaker 1: guess what, everyone wants those guys. They're the hardest guys
Speaker 1: to get in the whole NBA. So like, you know, like, man,
Speaker 1: if we can only find a great, big small forward
Speaker 1: who can shoot and defend, like duh.
Speaker 2: Who can do it?
Speaker 1: Like it's such a duh suggestion. I feel stupid making it,
Speaker 1: but so I always qualify with that. But that's the truth.
Speaker 1: But that is what I think. But I do think
Speaker 1: that the other four can work together at an elite level.
Speaker 1: You know, Jarrett is getting better every year, Evan is
Speaker 1: going to get better every year. I think Darius is
Speaker 1: going to get better every year, and Donovan has four
Speaker 1: or five years of prime in front of him still.
Speaker 1: So like what I hope is that it looks pretty similar,
Speaker 1: just with more optimized pieces around it. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to find those optimized pieces. To ask the great and
Speaker 1: grind grizzlies who spent eight years looking for the right
Speaker 1: small forward and never found one. So like, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's easy, but that is what I would like
Speaker 1: to see from them, because you know, the one thing
Speaker 1: about a guy like Jarrett that kind of kind of
Speaker 1: grinds my gears a little bit is he's he's paid
Speaker 1: like by in three years, he's going to be around
Speaker 1: the mid level exception for his salary, Like he's on
Speaker 1: a great deal and he's a guy that is a
Speaker 1: good dude. You don't need to He's not like he's
Speaker 1: not at the level where it's like, if we don't
Speaker 1: play Jarrett, forty minutes were screwed. Like he's a guy
Speaker 1: who like, and that's what I wanted to see from
Speaker 1: this offseason was like, hey, if we went into a
Speaker 1: matchup where the double bigs just aren't working, Like, it
Speaker 1: shouldn't be the end of the world to have your
Speaker 1: have a twenty million dollar player only play twenty to
Speaker 1: twenty five minutes in a postseason series. We see that
Speaker 1: all the time, you know, Like how different does it
Speaker 1: look if they can just split the minutes of the five,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty four to twenty four and Evan plays
Speaker 1: six more minutes at the four in a certain series.
Speaker 1: So I think they have a lot more flexibility with
Speaker 1: that core four than people think they do. And like,
Speaker 1: I think this idea that all four have to be
Speaker 1: like forty minutes, be able to play forty minutes in
Speaker 1: every series against every opponent. I just think it's like
Speaker 1: it's holding all four of those guys to a standard
Speaker 1: that no other team's top four guys are held to.
Speaker 1: You know, like if Michael Porter Junior has has a
Speaker 1: series that doesn't fit for the Denver, no one's like
Speaker 1: you gotta blow it up, Like they just go, oh,
Speaker 1: it's not NBJ series. We'll just see if the next
Speaker 1: series is serious. And that's kind of the way I
Speaker 1: feel about a guy like Jared.
Speaker 2: He he specifically is a player that you have to
Speaker 2: have on the roster. To your point, even it's like
Speaker 2: it's like Zubots for the Clippers. It's like, even though
Speaker 2: you may end up going small in big moments, you
Speaker 2: need to have a guy like that on the roster
Speaker 2: that has true imposing size at the five position. Like
Speaker 2: to me, it's it's like a fundamental part unless you're
Speaker 2: Draymond Green, like one of the weirdest players of this era.
Speaker 2: If you go back through NBA history, you win the title,
Speaker 2: you have a guy like that.
Speaker 1: Is a big, strong, physical, rugged dude that that does
Speaker 1: things for the Draymond doesn't do. Andrew Boget was that
Speaker 1: for them, Like, like you need good players, and Jared
Speaker 1: is a good player, Jared. Whether or not you think
Speaker 1: Evan's long term best fit is at the five, which
Speaker 1: I remain dubious of, by the way, you still still
Speaker 1: get forty eight minutes of elite rim protection with those
Speaker 1: two out there, and like not a lot of teams
Speaker 1: have that in their toolkit. So like, do not count
Speaker 1: me among Cavs fans who are earnestly trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how to not have forty eight minutes of elite
Speaker 1: rim protection and a league where that matters a whole lot.
Speaker 2: The two things that were recorded that are going to
Speaker 2: be required to get to that point you're talking about
Speaker 2: in like three to five years from now, where it's
Speaker 2: the same group with like a better three man. It's
Speaker 2: Donovan Mitchell continuing to work as hard as he's working
Speaker 2: on the details that's gonna be key, and then Evan
Speaker 2: Mobley's offensive development. Those are going to be the two
Speaker 2: things to keep an eye on. But I do agree
Speaker 2: with you that I feel a lot more optimistic about
Speaker 2: the team construct now than I did one year ago today,
Speaker 2: which I think is a testament to the hard work
Speaker 2: of those guys. All Right, I have two fun Lebron
Speaker 2: related questions before we got out of here. So Lebron
Speaker 2: was acting all passive aggressive last night. You know, he
Speaker 2: was about to go off, and then he did go home, Jason,
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna paint an imaginary scenario for you here
Speaker 2: where Lebron opts out of his team his player option
Speaker 2: this summer, and he calls Kobe Altman and he says,
Speaker 2: I want to come sign a veteran minimum contract in Cleveland.
Speaker 2: Would you take him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think people who's I would, you know,
Speaker 1: I like and by the way, we got the full
Speaker 1: med level. We don't have to cut him that much.
Speaker 1: We're not a team right now. Jason, Yeah, of course
Speaker 1: I would. I mean, I have you know, I you know,
Speaker 1: my co host Justin. I think it gets a little
Speaker 1: grumpier with Lebron's antics, and it finds it more exhausting
Speaker 1: than I do. I kind of think it's fun. It's
Speaker 1: kind of silly, you know, Like I joke that feels
Speaker 1: like almost like a like a coup of your mom's
Speaker 1: chicken noodle soup. When Lebron's getting a little passive aggressive,
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm just far enough away emotionally now where
Speaker 1: I can kind of just like see that for what
Speaker 1: it is. And the the narrative of, you know, him
Speaker 1: closing out in Cleveland is always super appealed to me.
Speaker 1: And also maybe this is this is some Napoleon complex stuff,
Speaker 1: but isn't it kind of nice the idea that the
Speaker 1: first two times Lebron was a cavalier, he was coming
Speaker 1: to save them and as like a present to him
Speaker 1: on the way out, they can be the safe haven
Speaker 1: for him you know, they can be the team that
Speaker 1: is ready made to plug him in and become a
Speaker 1: title contender and help send him off into the sunset.
Speaker 1: You know, Like, I think there's something kind of nice
Speaker 1: about that narratively, Like I care about stories as much
Speaker 1: as as much as anyone like, And doesn't that just
Speaker 1: feel like the way it's supposed to end, not just
Speaker 1: like fading away and you know on unhappy, odd fitting
Speaker 1: teams in LA I don't know if you know obviously
Speaker 1: you know, supposed to is probably overstepping. He's an adult
Speaker 1: with his own wants needs. You know, his kids still
Speaker 1: in one of his kids is still in heigh cool.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe like there's a billion reasons he shouldn't,
Speaker 1: But just as like a basketball narrative, isn't that kind
Speaker 1: of the coolest story to come back and win one more,
Speaker 1: but this time as the wise old man, not as
Speaker 1: the as the savior.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he's gonna believe I agree with
Speaker 2: you for the for those reasons. I but like, and
Speaker 2: I think this is all classic Lebron, just trying to
Speaker 2: leverage the front office into being more aggressive. But like
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of basketball sense about like big
Speaker 2: play yeah, Like it's like, oh, all they can do
Speaker 2: is run, pick and roll. They need another way to
Speaker 2: initiate offense. It's like, oh, well, Lebron's one of the
Speaker 2: best at that like kind of matchup attacking forward position.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, well, Lebron typically can't play the three
Speaker 2: because he can't chase guys around on the perimeter. It's
Speaker 2: like I just watched Evan Mobley chase kwhile Leonard around,
Speaker 2: Like like Evan Mobley can kind of take more of
Speaker 2: the perimeter oriented assignments at that position. It's like, oh well,
Speaker 2: they can struggle sometimes against really physical teams on the
Speaker 2: defensive class. It's like I just watched Lebron grab twenty
Speaker 2: defensive twenty rebound in a game against the Warriors the
Speaker 2: other night, Like it is a natural basketball fit. And
Speaker 2: and to your point, like you know, there's all these
Speaker 2: other basketball teams that make sense. Like it's he'd be
Speaker 2: really good in Oklahoma City, he'd be really good in Minnesota.
Speaker 2: But it's like he would never leave to go to
Speaker 2: a situation like that. If he was gonna leave, it
Speaker 2: would be for something like Cleveland. And I love the
Speaker 2: way you put that in terms of like Lebron came
Speaker 2: to save Cleveland, so to speak. But what if Cleveland
Speaker 2: got to save him? You know, that'd be that would be,
Speaker 2: that would be and I'm sure he'd hate lasting exactly.
Speaker 2: He'd pushed back that like crazy. Yeah, there's no Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's exactly what would happened. He would he would he
Speaker 2: would be gunning for stats in the NBA Finals to
Speaker 2: make sure he got that Finals MVP. All right, So
Speaker 2: what is your favorite Lebron moment with the calves that
Speaker 2: is not the twenty sixteen championship.
Speaker 1: I think I have to go back to when I
Speaker 1: was a kid and the you know, the explosion against Detroit,
Speaker 1: the twenty five straight uh in N seven. You know,
Speaker 1: I am of the opinion. So I did not grow
Speaker 1: up in a like a basketball obsessed household because like
Speaker 1: my dad doesn't really like sports. So like I loved
Speaker 1: basketball when I was a kid, Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: I watched it with my brother all the time, and
Speaker 1: we loved it. We loved you know, the Shaq Kobe Lakers.
Speaker 1: And you know, my first basketball memory is Lebron's I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: Jordan's last shot against Utah. You know, I was seven
Speaker 1: or eight years old, but I really strongly believe like
Speaker 1: you don't actually know what the hell you're watching until
Speaker 1: you're like sixteen or seventeen. I just think before that,
Speaker 1: you're just a dumb kid that doesn't really know how
Speaker 1: to interpret what's going on. So like, I feel like
Speaker 1: that push against the pistons where he just you know,
Speaker 1: went absolutely ballistic, was like it was like my basketball
Speaker 1: bar mitzvah. You know, I became a man watching that
Speaker 1: and like my obsession with the game. I feel like,
Speaker 1: win up another notch with that run, and it was
Speaker 1: just so fun. It was like it was like the
Speaker 1: first time I watched basketball majesty and had the frame
Speaker 1: of reference to understand it, you know, and really contextualize it.
Speaker 1: So that's got to be my favorite because you know,
Speaker 1: I remember exactly where I was. I remember calling my
Speaker 1: mom into the room to watch, like it was like
Speaker 1: a whole thing. So yeah, that's got to be my pick.
Speaker 2: I remember, like because that came at a much younger
Speaker 2: point in my life too, and I was just so
Speaker 2: much more emotional as a fan, Like I vividly remember
Speaker 2: Donielle Marshall missing the corner three and being completely devastated
Speaker 2: in game one, and then I vividly remember the news
Speaker 2: cycle about him passing out of the final shot, and
Speaker 2: then I vividly remember in game two when he drove
Speaker 2: down the lane and got fouled like three times on
Speaker 2: his way to on his way to the basket, and
Speaker 2: that being the whole thing. I remember in game three
Speaker 2: and four, like just the unbelievable momentum plays he made
Speaker 2: at home as they tied the series, and then I
Speaker 2: remember even game six, after the after Game five, when
Speaker 2: he was kind off and Daniel Gibson went off and
Speaker 2: they it was just like that whole series as a
Speaker 2: you know, it's funny because I'm sure you feel this
Speaker 2: way too, where like as we've become older, we've almost
Speaker 2: become jaded to the point where we're like we we
Speaker 2: almost underreact to everything, which is which is so much
Speaker 2: more boring than what it was like when we were kids.
Speaker 2: But dude, I remember, yeah, I remember those those Calves
Speaker 2: playoff runs as just being so such an emotional roller coaster,
Speaker 2: and like even some of the bad ones, like the
Speaker 2: the twenty ten run, it's like right before he was
Speaker 2: so bad and at the end of that series, remember
Speaker 2: Game three when he went in when it was one
Speaker 2: to one and he just completely obliterated them in Boston,
Speaker 2: like it just yeah, it's crazy, my my, Like foundational
Speaker 2: basketball moments as a fan are all like Lebron James
Speaker 2: playoff runs makes sense, it's.
Speaker 1: Crazy with like that's part of the reason like why
Speaker 1: I think anyone who says they don't want him back,
Speaker 1: I just don't believe them, because, like I just think
Speaker 1: he's kind of hard coded, especially for Cavs fans, like
Speaker 1: into our basketball DNA for good or for better. I
Speaker 1: mean I remember that first year he was in Miami
Speaker 1: and there was a big like running bit online calves
Speaker 1: for MAVs like, oh, let me tell you something, Jason.
Speaker 1: I have deleted so many humiliating Facebook statuses complaining about
Speaker 1: Lebron during the Miami era because you know, you get
Speaker 1: the memories and I'll see some like Lebron, this guy sucks,
Speaker 1: you know, like it was just such a like, you know,
Speaker 1: just like just a dumb kid angry. It's angry that
Speaker 1: you know, my basketball hero left me so like, you know,
Speaker 1: like he's just been such an important part of this
Speaker 1: this uh, this era of NBA history, and so anyone
Speaker 1: who's you know, my age, maybe a little bit older,
Speaker 1: a little bit younger, Like like he's been kind of
Speaker 1: at the core of it, so of course it's going
Speaker 1: to be interesting every time, you know, like he gets
Speaker 1: passive aggressive. Of course, people in my dms are like
Speaker 1: low return, you know, like it's just going to be
Speaker 1: part of it, and like that's kind of part of
Speaker 1: the fun. I don't expect it to ever happen, but
Speaker 1: like he's you know, I think he's the best player
Speaker 1: of all time, and like it's been really really fun
Speaker 1: to root for him root against him. He's never boring
Speaker 1: and that's what I think is really funny about him.
Speaker 1: And it's cool that the Calves ever bright future regardless
Speaker 1: with that decision. M M all right, Carter, can you
Speaker 1: tell us about where we can find your stuff? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can find me at Carter Underscore Shade on Twitter
Speaker 1: dot com, slash x or whatever. And you can follow
Speaker 1: our podcast at Chase Down Pod on the same site.
Speaker 1: You can we live stream after a lot of games.
Speaker 1: All of our pods are on the Calves official YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: so go ahead and check us out there. And and yeah,
Speaker 1: of course subscribe to the pod on whatever platform you prefer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carter and Justin do amazing work covering the calves. Carter,
Speaker 2: I sincerely appreciate you taking the time out of your day.
Speaker 2: I know how busy you are, and I appreciate you
Speaker 2: making this happen for us. This was a ton of fun.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have to have you on again sometimes A.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the time and I had
Speaker 1: a blast. Man, the volume