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Speaker 1: dot Ai. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curict and I'm Bomas
Speaker 1: st John and this is Back to Biz with Katie
Speaker 1: and Bose Bose. This week, we have a bit of
Speaker 1: a departure. You know. When you and I decided we
Speaker 1: wanted to do this podcast together, we were really talking
Speaker 1: about getting back to biz or how businesses would change
Speaker 1: in light of the pandemic. But of course everything has
Speaker 1: changed because of this huge cultural moment we're witnessing with
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter. Yes, that's right, Katie. I mean, right now,
Speaker 1: we're finding that there are so many narratives being told,
Speaker 1: not just about the pandemic, but you're right about Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter, and about so many things that are concerning
Speaker 1: us in our society, and so really interesting to talk
Speaker 1: to someone who is at the center of creating narratives
Speaker 1: and stories that we're all paying attention to. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: Judd Apatow is just that, a writer, producer, director. He's
Speaker 1: got a new movie out called The King of Staten
Speaker 1: Island starring Pete Davidson. It's really semi autobiographical because it's
Speaker 1: about Pete's own challenges and journey of losing his father.
Speaker 1: His mom is played by Marissa Tomay, and his little
Speaker 1: sister is actually played by Judd's daughter maud Right, except
Speaker 1: even the little sisters leaving the nest. She set it
Speaker 1: off to college, and she's leaving her twenties something year
Speaker 1: old brother behind. You gonna be okay without me here?
Speaker 1: You don't think I could five here without you? Okay,
Speaker 1: Just don't be a dick. Okay, it would be nice
Speaker 1: to mom. Okay, don't give her a hard time. She
Speaker 1: deserves a break. I always give her a break. When's
Speaker 1: what am I gonna get my break? Like? What are
Speaker 1: you talking about? All? Anyone ever does this worry about you?
Speaker 1: I was ignored my entire childhood because of you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I forgot that my childhood was so dandy. Okay, you
Speaker 1: don't get that crazy your whole life just because dad died. Okay,
Speaker 1: at least you've got to know him. Well, you're lucky
Speaker 1: you didn't get to know him, Okay, because that's why
Speaker 1: you're almost normal. If you got to know me, would
Speaker 1: have known that he was like the coolest guy ever,
Speaker 1: and that wouldn't ruin the rest of your life. Okay,
Speaker 1: But what are you gonna do? Or are you gonna
Speaker 1: get a job, or are you going to leave the house?
Speaker 1: I don't know I'm gonna open that tattoo restaurant. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that tattoo restaurant is the real winner.
Speaker 1: We know about business and that's not it. I don't
Speaker 1: think so either, right, But there really is so much
Speaker 1: to unpack in this movie. I mean, it's also dealing
Speaker 1: with trauma and mental health in a way that feels
Speaker 1: really direct and refreshing. I was really impressed with this
Speaker 1: movie Bows, But of course it was done a while ago,
Speaker 1: and we'll be talking to jud about the future not
Speaker 1: only of movie making but movie going. But we want
Speaker 1: to check in first with the present. How he's doing
Speaker 1: months into this pandemic hold up at home, one man
Speaker 1: among many women, his lovely wife Leslie Man, and his
Speaker 1: nearly grown daughters Iris and Maud. That might have been
Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts about the whole conversation, how
Speaker 1: he got the takeover. So let's start there, old Gramont
Speaker 1: and Iris. Now, Jud, there are twenty two and seventeen,
Speaker 1: and that's not the age where you want to hang
Speaker 1: out with your parents a lot. You know, that's the
Speaker 1: moment when you leave and you're so happy to get
Speaker 1: away from your parents. So it's a very weird moment
Speaker 1: for us all to be stuck together, because now we're
Speaker 1: not like a family, We are like weird roommates. Because
Speaker 1: when you spend this much time together and they're that old,
Speaker 1: I mean, Iris will be eighteen in October, you can't
Speaker 1: really even give them advice or tell them what to do.
Speaker 1: You can't ground them because we're all grounded together. And
Speaker 1: I think all people were five minutes from doing mushrooms
Speaker 1: together at this point. Well, the family dynamics are very
Speaker 1: interesting during these strange times. But we're all lucky and
Speaker 1: we're all surviving. And uh, I keep thinking about how
Speaker 1: fortunate I am because there's so many people who are
Speaker 1: really really hurting, so jud we have so much ground
Speaker 1: to cover. You've been so busy, and we're excited to
Speaker 1: talk to you about your new movie. But first I
Speaker 1: just want to go back in time quickly, because you
Speaker 1: were a bit of a late bloomer. You didn't direct
Speaker 1: your first movie until you were thirty five years old,
Speaker 1: because you had a hard time convincing studio executives that
Speaker 1: your ideas had potential. What was it about your form
Speaker 1: of comedy or your brand of comedy, Judd that studio
Speaker 1: had Studio exact same thanks, but no thanks. It's hard
Speaker 1: to know. I think that you know, for like Freaks
Speaker 1: and Geek, which was about high school kids, but it
Speaker 1: was you know, it was the weirdos. It was the
Speaker 1: potheads and the geeks, and there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 1: those on television, especially in the lead roles. Back then,
Speaker 1: it used to be that everyone was gorgeous and it
Speaker 1: was like a soap opera and it was very you know,
Speaker 1: Dawson's Creek style. And someone that wrote an article and
Speaker 1: they said, well, this is like independent film on television.
Speaker 1: And at that time, you know, before streaming, before cable,
Speaker 1: when in that direction we just seemed weird. I mean,
Speaker 1: freaksing Geeks right now would totally fit in on television.
Speaker 1: It might even be corny compared to what everyone is
Speaker 1: watching at this point. But back then it just seemed
Speaker 1: very odd to show the problems of teenagers where it
Speaker 1: didn't get solved, where it was just painful, and then
Speaker 1: sometimes things would go terribly wrong and then the episode
Speaker 1: would end and you realize, oh, this is about that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just hard, and sometimes you lean on your
Speaker 1: friends and it doesn't work out and you don't get
Speaker 1: the girl and you don't get the good position in
Speaker 1: in sports, and you're kind of humiliated by everyone, and
Speaker 1: you're just trying to hold it together to survive high school.
Speaker 1: And so I think some of the ideas I like
Speaker 1: that maybe they were they were so truthful that the
Speaker 1: culture wasn't doing a lot of that at the time.
Speaker 1: But then suddenly with everything that HBO was doing and
Speaker 1: uh whatever, all the all the shows, what what the
Speaker 1: Sopranos did and Leana done him? Did it? The culture changed.
Speaker 1: You have a new movie, The King of Staten Island,
Speaker 1: and it had to be released on demand instead of
Speaker 1: in theaters for obvious reasons, as we've been discussing, but
Speaker 1: you also said that you feel this movie somehow was
Speaker 1: destined to be seen right now. Why why is that?
Speaker 1: Why does it need to be seen right now? I
Speaker 1: think the movie is about, uh, you know, a family
Speaker 1: struggle to get over the death of the father who
Speaker 1: was a firefighter and in real life, Pete Davidson's father
Speaker 1: lost his life in nine eleven. In the movie, it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's a fabricated situation, but it's about a
Speaker 1: family who's frozen in their grief. They haven't really moved
Speaker 1: forward the way they should, in a healthy way. And
Speaker 1: only when Pete's character's mother starts dating another fireman played
Speaker 1: by Bill Burr his mom's played by Maarissa Tomay, does
Speaker 1: it force them to confront everything that has held them back,
Speaker 1: all the trauma that's prevented them from moving forward. And
Speaker 1: I felt like the movie is about sudden loss, it's
Speaker 1: about grief, it's about the ways it can impede our lives,
Speaker 1: and it's also about firefighters and heroes and nurses and
Speaker 1: first responders. So when I was asked, you know when
Speaker 1: you put it out on video on demand now versus
Speaker 1: releasing it in a year, I thought, well, this is
Speaker 1: kind of the subject that we're all dealing with. How
Speaker 1: do we deal with change and loss and grief and
Speaker 1: how do people come together and help each other and heal?
Speaker 1: So maybe it's supposed to come out right now. It
Speaker 1: felt weird to hold onto it to say that's his
Speaker 1: way to year so it can be in theaters, Like,
Speaker 1: why do I need it in theaters? Is that an
Speaker 1: ego trip for me? Is because I need the experience
Speaker 1: of the of the audience, or did I make the
Speaker 1: movie to make people happy to help them go through
Speaker 1: something emotionally that I think might be helpful. And then
Speaker 1: I thought, maybe it's supposed to come out now, maybe
Speaker 1: that's what it was destined to do. Yeah, but you're right.
Speaker 1: I feel like movies content in general is sort of
Speaker 1: a therapy, right. This probably brought up a lot of difficult,
Speaker 1: unresolved issues for Pete. Did you find that did Did
Speaker 1: it bring up anything even for yourself? It definitely did
Speaker 1: for for all of us. In terms of Pete, we
Speaker 1: sat around for years talking NonStop about how it felt to,
Speaker 1: you know, to lose a parent, and to lose a
Speaker 1: parent at seven when you don't even really understand what's
Speaker 1: going on. And then there's this added dimension, which is
Speaker 1: your father dies in nine eleven, and the entire world
Speaker 1: is talking about nine eleven for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: It doesn't really go away. And so I would what
Speaker 1: I would say to Pete is, you know, my mother
Speaker 1: died of cancer in two thousand and eight, and it
Speaker 1: was very traumatic, and how it happened was very traumatic,
Speaker 1: but no one talks about it. So I can go
Speaker 1: years and no one will mention my mother other than
Speaker 1: my sister, and and so in some ways it gives
Speaker 1: me some separation. It allows me to heal, It allows
Speaker 1: me to develop, you know, this life after losing her.
Speaker 1: For him, people talk to him about it every day
Speaker 1: of his life, multiple times a day, and it's connected
Speaker 1: to their grief and their loss, and so in a way,
Speaker 1: he's he's in a groundhog Day loop about it, and
Speaker 1: he has his own private grief. He just misses his dad.
Speaker 1: I mean, at the core of it, he just misses
Speaker 1: his dad. He and he missed out on a relationship
Speaker 1: that he really grieves for. How we don't really talk
Speaker 1: about it much fun Yeah I missed it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: let me too. And uh, I'm sorry that I been
Speaker 1: so difficult to deal with. I'll try and get it together.
Speaker 1: I'm just sorry, I think it. I mean, I talked
Speaker 1: a lot with Pete about how when he was a
Speaker 1: kid he was having a lot of mental health struggles
Speaker 1: and he used to listen to kids and Kid Cutty
Speaker 1: had all this amazing music about his anxiety and depression.
Speaker 1: And Pete said, that really got me through it. And
Speaker 1: in the last few years, a lot of what we've
Speaker 1: been working on is content about mental health. And Pete
Speaker 1: wanted to make a movie that was about his story,
Speaker 1: so that if you were home depressed or suicidal or
Speaker 1: had anxiety, you might watch this movie and relate to
Speaker 1: Pete and and see some hope in how he got better. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's just so remarkable that, um, we can
Speaker 1: use art in this way to find healing, you know,
Speaker 1: for a number of different things that happen in our lives.
Speaker 1: But I also think it's remarkable that you're able to
Speaker 1: sort of nurture that kind of storytelling, you know, and
Speaker 1: with talent that sometimes maybe would get lost otherwise. Um,
Speaker 1: and we know that you certainly mentored a lot of
Speaker 1: young talent and provided vehicles for people like Amy Schumer
Speaker 1: and Kristin Wigg and Seth Rogan. What is it that
Speaker 1: you see in town like that you know in their
Speaker 1: in their own storytelling, or how to nurture that type
Speaker 1: of vulnerability? I mean, I think that clearly through Gary Shandon,
Speaker 1: who I worked with the Larry Sander Show, I learned
Speaker 1: a lot about mining your life for your art. And
Speaker 1: I think as a fan of music, I always was
Speaker 1: drawn to people who would tell stories that were clearly
Speaker 1: from their lives. It could be James Taylor, could be
Speaker 1: the Beatles, you love those songs that you knew were real.
Speaker 1: I think as a kid that was very important to me.
Speaker 1: And then I think Richard Tryer in a way taught me, oh,
Speaker 1: you would just work it out on stage like he
Speaker 1: just told He told the stories of his life. Here's
Speaker 1: the things I've done, here's the thing things I've done
Speaker 1: which are terrible, Here's the mistakes I've made, Here's what
Speaker 1: I've learned. And there were a lot of artists like that, Nirvana,
Speaker 1: just just all these people where you thought, oh, they're
Speaker 1: not kidding, They're really showing you the raw, real stuff.
Speaker 1: And I learned with Gary that you could take your
Speaker 1: life as the raw materials for storytelling, and they blur
Speaker 1: the line. Some of it's totally made up, some of
Speaker 1: it is actually very close to the truth. And a
Speaker 1: writer's room at a TV show, everyone tells their stories.
Speaker 1: And then that led to me writing Knocked Up and
Speaker 1: Fortyal Virgin and um Photo Virgin with Steve and this
Speaker 1: is forty. And then I started trying to mind my stuff,
Speaker 1: which is always a combination of made up and and
Speaker 1: true things that you're thinking about. And then when I
Speaker 1: met Pete, I mean, that was as close to the
Speaker 1: bone as you can get. But he was as brave
Speaker 1: as anyone I've ever met in terms of I'm willing
Speaker 1: to go all the way, Jedd, There's no aspect of
Speaker 1: this that I'm going to hold back. Most people hold
Speaker 1: back something like no, I can't go that far, that's
Speaker 1: too darker, that that will make me look weird. And
Speaker 1: Pete's like, let's just show all of them when we
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Speaker 1: You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows
Speaker 1: and we're talking with Judd Apatow, who as I'm sure
Speaker 1: you're aware, a comedy powerhouse in Hollywood, but what about
Speaker 1: the responsibility that comes with that power. Here we are
Speaker 1: in a moment of national reckoning on race, so we
Speaker 1: wanted to explore what leaders like Judd can do to
Speaker 1: be the change that we want Hollywood to be. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting because Judd has actually faced criticism about the
Speaker 1: lack of diversity in his own work, So we started
Speaker 1: there asking him where his head was at with all
Speaker 1: of this and what he can do to better elevate
Speaker 1: black stories. You know, Yeah, it's and it's an ever
Speaker 1: evolving thing. You know, for me, princes with freaks and geeks.
Speaker 1: When I went to high school, there was one black
Speaker 1: person in thirteen years of high school on Long Island
Speaker 1: where I grew up. So if I did a high
Speaker 1: school show, and I said, well, let's make that you
Speaker 1: can do that, and I think in this era you
Speaker 1: would do that. But at the time, we just wrote
Speaker 1: about what our high schools looked like and that was
Speaker 1: not that uh, and maybe that was completely wrong at
Speaker 1: the time, but you know, we came from places that
Speaker 1: we're not diverse. Then when I worked with Lena Dunham
Speaker 1: on Girls, at the time, there weren't shows with female
Speaker 1: showrunners who were the lead and the producer and the director.
Speaker 1: And that became something that I think really was a
Speaker 1: game changer for women running their shows. And it led
Speaker 1: to shows like Fleabag and all these other programs where
Speaker 1: women could create a show for themselves and start it
Speaker 1: and direct it and produce it. And then some people
Speaker 1: were like, well, that should be more diverse, and you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: I I can see that that we need to keep
Speaker 1: broadening it. We're all figuring out like, well, what is truthful?
Speaker 1: How would you do it? And what I feel like
Speaker 1: the solution to it is it's like what we did
Speaker 1: with The Big Sick, which is I met fremail nine
Speaker 1: Johnny and Emily Gordon, and they wanted to write this
Speaker 1: story about how they met, and a lot of it
Speaker 1: was about, you know, a family of people from Pakistan
Speaker 1: and their experience in America and how their family worked.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you, no one wants it to make it.
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter how successful I've been, I
Speaker 1: couldn't sell that script. Uh and Emily and Kamil had
Speaker 1: an amazing story and they're brilliant, and Camail is an
Speaker 1: incredible actor and he's on television. No One, So we
Speaker 1: just developed it for years for free. No one paid them.
Speaker 1: And then we got film Nation to give us five
Speaker 1: million dollars to make the movie. Right, So we get
Speaker 1: five million dollars to make the movie. Now, normally my
Speaker 1: movies cost about thirty million dollars, So right there, you
Speaker 1: can say there's almost a systemic racism in the budget,
Speaker 1: right because there's a belief that no one will want
Speaker 1: to see a kid from Pakistan as the lead in
Speaker 1: a comedy in America. So the movie gets made. Film
Speaker 1: Nation stands behind us and gives it. They give us
Speaker 1: the money. They're great, but none of the studios did
Speaker 1: We show it at Sundance. It's a big hit. They
Speaker 1: sell it for a lot of money to Amazon and
Speaker 1: then lions Gate distributes it, and now you've got the
Speaker 1: corporations behind it because we've proven it's good, and then
Speaker 1: it makes a ton of money, right, it makes a
Speaker 1: ton of money, and it basically becomes an example that
Speaker 1: the racism which makes it hard to make this movie
Speaker 1: is all bullshit. It's completely unfair and it's not even
Speaker 1: accurate to what the audience wants. The audience wanted that movie.
Speaker 1: There's no reason why it should have been a five
Speaker 1: million dollar movie. It's could have been a thirty million
Speaker 1: dollar movie. And and that's how I've learned to deal
Speaker 1: with this, which is, can I give opportunities to diverse
Speaker 1: people to tell their stories and maybe I could use
Speaker 1: my wisdom to help them, And you know, that seems
Speaker 1: to be the best way forward. And the truth is,
Speaker 1: and you you always sound lame saying it. I can't
Speaker 1: tell you how many projects I've tried to make that
Speaker 1: didn't work, where we couldn't get the script right. You know,
Speaker 1: I did a pilot with Kevin Hart in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two. I was like the first guy to go.
Speaker 1: I think Kevin Hart's gonna be the biggest start in
Speaker 1: the world. And it took a long time after that
Speaker 1: for him to figure it out. But we were on
Speaker 1: that on that train from day one, like he was
Speaker 1: on undeclared he's in the four ye Old Virgin. But
Speaker 1: I personally was never good enough to crack the script
Speaker 1: to help Kevin make it. You know, he did that
Speaker 1: in his own work that had nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1: And so we try and sometimes we we just fail. Also,
Speaker 1: I think the brilliant thing, um that you just said
Speaker 1: was about even the example of your high school, right,
Speaker 1: and that if you were to write something about your
Speaker 1: high school experience, you would write about this big class
Speaker 1: with this one kid in it. And that is the
Speaker 1: that is the middle of the issue, right. It's not
Speaker 1: so much about having white people right black stories. It's
Speaker 1: about having black people right black stories, diversifying the storytelling.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's it's really quite important, and
Speaker 1: there's a responsibility of those who have the door open
Speaker 1: to find ways to extend it so that our storytelling
Speaker 1: can become more diverse too, because I also think it's
Speaker 1: about systemic racism, like why is Judd going to a
Speaker 1: school or me for that matter, where there's like a
Speaker 1: handful of black kids in the entire school. But I
Speaker 1: think that's a reflection of you know, so many issues
Speaker 1: that created this de facto segregation that Judd and I
Speaker 1: and Bose you to a certain extent too, even though
Speaker 1: you're a little younger than we are, and well I'm
Speaker 1: the old one of the group. We're all about ten
Speaker 1: years apart um. But I think it's it's a reflection
Speaker 1: of what was happening in society when jud and I
Speaker 1: were growing up. But one thing I wanted to ask you, Judd,
Speaker 1: to to build on something you said, why are these
Speaker 1: network executives or these studio executives so clueless? I think,
Speaker 1: what's so interesting? You said, they weren't reflecting what the
Speaker 1: audience wanted, right, you know, so they're saying no, and
Speaker 1: yet the audience is saying yes. So why is there
Speaker 1: such a disconnect? Is it because of the people who
Speaker 1: hold these positions of power to green light a project.
Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of theories that are
Speaker 1: just wrong, and it's not. It's it's about every aspect
Speaker 1: of diversity. When we made Bridesmaids, I didn't think we
Speaker 1: were doing anything to help women. I mean, I grew
Speaker 1: up on Gilder Radner and Tody Fields and Lucy Ball.
Speaker 1: There was never any part of me that thought that
Speaker 1: men were funnier than women. If anything, I think that
Speaker 1: my greatest heroes were women. So I just wanted to
Speaker 1: make a movie with Kristin Wig. I didn't think that
Speaker 1: this was symbolic. I didn't think it was about helping
Speaker 1: women prove they could be, you know, the leads of
Speaker 1: movies or female driven comedies. I just thought christ And
Speaker 1: Wiggs a genius. Let's make a movie with her. And
Speaker 1: then people started saying, you know, if the movie does well,
Speaker 1: maybe it'll help the studios realized they should make more
Speaker 1: movies with female comedic leads. I never thought of it
Speaker 1: as a test case, and then it turned out it
Speaker 1: did very well, and it did lead to a bunch
Speaker 1: of other movies happening for different people. But that was
Speaker 1: a theory, like the studios were not pursuing women to
Speaker 1: be the leads of comedies in the way they should have.
Speaker 1: It would happen here and there, but you know, they'd
Speaker 1: be a Goldie Hawn movie, or you know, every once
Speaker 1: in a while someone would get a shot. But it
Speaker 1: was still way less than man. And so for me,
Speaker 1: I've just tried to be more aware of it. I
Speaker 1: like being in terrain where no one is. So one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I do certain things, that's just because,
Speaker 1: oh this this community isn't getting a movie. It's fun
Speaker 1: to try to make a great one because it's not
Speaker 1: something that everyone has burnt out. But I realized I
Speaker 1: just need partners. I need to partner up with with
Speaker 1: these people. And we have a lot of projects that
Speaker 1: we hope get done. We're doing a gay romantic comedy
Speaker 1: with Billy Eichner, and there hasn't been a big studio
Speaker 1: romantic comedy like that. It's it's if it's been done.
Speaker 1: It's been done maybe once or twice ever. But he's
Speaker 1: got the big budget. He doesn't have the big sick budget.
Speaker 1: He's got the real budget from Universal Studios, and he
Speaker 1: wrote a hysterical script and it's And the truth is,
Speaker 1: it's kind of sad that it's a big deal to
Speaker 1: get it. It's very sad. But that's what we're trying
Speaker 1: to do. We're trying to tell great stories and partner
Speaker 1: up with people that we believe in, and hopefully that's
Speaker 1: the way we could make a big difference. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a short break, but when we come back,
Speaker 1: Jed tells us how he thinks the pandemic will change
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Speaker 1: You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows
Speaker 1: and as we wrap up with Judd Apataw, we asked
Speaker 1: him about the future of moviemaking, and if he's going
Speaker 1: to be one of the people dipping his toe back
Speaker 1: into filming in the middle of a pandemic, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm very scared, and I will be among the last
Speaker 1: people to say let's go, because I I really would
Speaker 1: never want to put anyone in danger. I know when
Speaker 1: when this time passes and things are safe, everyone will
Speaker 1: run back to the movie theaters, just like they're trying
Speaker 1: to run back to everything now before they should. But
Speaker 1: there's going to be a very painful pause for the industry.
Speaker 1: A lot of movie theaters are closing though. I mean,
Speaker 1: some people say saying this is just accelerating a trend
Speaker 1: that we were already witnessing, and and that is kind
Speaker 1: of the demise of movie theaters, which would really make
Speaker 1: me sad. But do you think that movie watching is
Speaker 1: going to come back? I do. I do, because people
Speaker 1: might just miss it. They can come back bigger because
Speaker 1: people are tired of being in their homes binging, and
Speaker 1: maybe it will make them appreciate the experience. I think
Speaker 1: it will always be there. The question is what will
Speaker 1: we make for the theater and what will we make
Speaker 1: for home viewing? So everyone wants to see spectacle, right,
Speaker 1: we want to see explosions and superheroes in a movie theater.
Speaker 1: People aren't really going to the theater to see what
Speaker 1: used to be the mid price drama. You don't see
Speaker 1: the studios spending million dollars on a drama the way
Speaker 1: they used to make a Meryl Street movie. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: less of that happening. It's still happening, it's but it's
Speaker 1: kind of lower budgeted and going straight to streaming a
Speaker 1: fair amount of the time. And so I think what's
Speaker 1: going to change is what goes in the theater. And
Speaker 1: it's hard to know, you know, what to make of that,
Speaker 1: because they're making some great movies that are meant for streaming,
Speaker 1: and maybe an independent filmmaker that used to make a
Speaker 1: movie for two million dollars in a theater might get
Speaker 1: ten million dollars to make it for Netflix, and so
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of trade offs. Yeah, well, we're seeing
Speaker 1: good Lord, we're seeing a lot of drama in our
Speaker 1: in our regular lives, right, not even in the theater.
Speaker 1: And clearly the election is oooming. Lord help us, all um.
Speaker 1: We just had this great conversation with Stacy Abrahams last week,
Speaker 1: who is just so impressive. I I really admire her
Speaker 1: um and I know that you share her concern about
Speaker 1: voter suppression in this country. What initially sparked your activism
Speaker 1: around this issue in particular, I mean generally, My act
Speaker 1: activism was set off by the fact that when Donald
Speaker 1: Trump started birtherism, I was just really disgusted. I wrote
Speaker 1: some jokes for the President for the Correspondence dinner that
Speaker 1: made fun of Trump. Now, I know that he's taken
Speaker 1: some flat lately, but no one is happier. No one
Speaker 1: is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest
Speaker 1: than the Donalds. And that's because he can finally get
Speaker 1: back to focusing on the issues that matter, like we
Speaker 1: fake the moon landing? What really happened in Roswell? And
Speaker 1: where are Biggie and Tupac. The reason why some of
Speaker 1: those jokes were harsh was because I was so annoyed
Speaker 1: and scared about his looming presence, and I even said
Speaker 1: to everybody, I think we should go harder at him.
Speaker 1: And this is a real destructive force in our country.
Speaker 1: And my worst nightmares have come true about what could happen,
Speaker 1: And I think the only way he stays in office
Speaker 1: is through voter suppression. That's the only way he does
Speaker 1: it is by setting up rules and working with local,
Speaker 1: uh you know, state governments to make it harder for
Speaker 1: people to vote in areas where he might not you know,
Speaker 1: be in favor. And that is something that is going
Speaker 1: to be handled in the courts. Obviously, I've always supported
Speaker 1: the A C l U because they do a lot
Speaker 1: of work fighting voter suppression. He's already saying that voting
Speaker 1: by mail will be filled with fraud when there is
Speaker 1: no fraud at all. There's no history of it. But
Speaker 1: that's why Stacy pointed out Judd Stacy pointed out that
Speaker 1: there is very little voter fraud and that is so misleading,
Speaker 1: and that's what they always fall back on when it
Speaker 1: comes to making voting more accessible to more people. Well, also,
Speaker 1: I don't know if people talk about it enough. When
Speaker 1: Donald Trump ran to president in two thousand and sixteen,
Speaker 1: he was saying it was rigged before he won. So
Speaker 1: this is his playbook, which is to set him itself
Speaker 1: up to always win. Even when he loses. He says
Speaker 1: it's unfair before it happens. They should pull out all
Speaker 1: the clips of him saying this in two thousand and sixteen,
Speaker 1: and it's happening while he's colluding with Russia. It's happening
Speaker 1: while he's doing all sorts of things which are unethical
Speaker 1: or illegal. So he sets himself up to have a
Speaker 1: grievance and to get people worked up. And then he's
Speaker 1: putting a lot of judges and he hopes that he
Speaker 1: could say the elections unfair and then maybe the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court supports some bizarre ruling that keeps him in office,
Speaker 1: or maybe there has to be a second election. And
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds crazy, but there are people on
Speaker 1: that court that are going to support anything that he says.
Speaker 1: And luckily, but we saw what happened with daka Uh.
Speaker 1: You know this week he's not winning everything at the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, but he's certainly gambling on it with this election.
Speaker 1: I would assume. I mean, you're in such a great position, judge.
Speaker 1: You have so much influence and power in Hollywood, and
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you plan to use it or what
Speaker 1: you're what you're thinking about and looking at in terms
Speaker 1: of projects right now, in terms of you know, my company,
Speaker 1: where we do a lot of development. I feel good
Speaker 1: because we were in this mindset for a while, you know,
Speaker 1: we we we have been looking to do diverse projects.
Speaker 1: We've been looking to do things which are more political.
Speaker 1: I feel like in all areas. It's not just you know,
Speaker 1: it's diversity of thought as well. There are so many
Speaker 1: things that we don't talk about, and when we do
Speaker 1: talk about it and people feel seen and less alone,
Speaker 1: it really helps them in their lives and inspires them
Speaker 1: in so many ways. So I hope that that's what
Speaker 1: comes of this this time. And kindness. You know, we
Speaker 1: need more kindness. We need to lift each other up
Speaker 1: and take care of each other and make that our
Speaker 1: our focus. That was Judd Apataw and his latest movie
Speaker 1: is The King of Staten Island available on demand. That
Speaker 1: does it. For this episode of Back to Biz with
Speaker 1: Katie and Bows and you know what's crazy, we're nearly
Speaker 1: at the halfway mark of this series. So are you
Speaker 1: having fun doing this? Bo No, I'm not. This is
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure. Well, you're doing a great job
Speaker 1: and I love having you as my partner. Well, thank you, Katie. No,
Speaker 1: I really I do love you and I'm having a blast.
Speaker 1: And of course, I mean we've been so inspired and
Speaker 1: I've been so inspired by our guests t D. Jake's
Speaker 1: Opal to, Matty, Mary Barro, Stacy Abrams. I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: Stacy Abrams, all of these goals. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: been awesome. I know, we've been really lucky that we've
Speaker 1: gotten so many people to talk with us, especially during
Speaker 1: this critically important time really in our nation's history. But
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you, dear listeners, So let
Speaker 1: us know what you think of our conversations and who
Speaker 1: you'd like us to speak with on one of these podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can leave a voicemail for back to Biz at
Speaker 1: eight four four or seven nine seven eight eight three.
Speaker 1: That's eight four four or seven nine seven eight eight three,
Speaker 1: or you can email us at info at Katie correct
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Speaker 1: And you can also go straight to Apple Podcasts and
Speaker 1: leave us a review. Katie, you know what, we already
Speaker 1: have one review. Really, Oh gosh, I hope it's nice. Bows,
Speaker 1: It's it's all right, it's good, it's good. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, keep up with the show on Apple
Speaker 1: podcast the I Heart Radio Apple, wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows and don't forget to follow us on
Speaker 1: social media, where you'll find clips of our favorite moments
Speaker 1: from the interviews until next time. I'm Bozema St. John
Speaker 1: and I'm Katie Curic and this is Back to Biz
Speaker 1: with Katie and Bows. Thanks so much for listening, guys.
Speaker 1: Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive
Speaker 1: producers are Katie Current, Bozema St. John, and Courtney Litz.
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are
Speaker 1: Derrek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derrek
Speaker 1: Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derek Klemon. It's special
Speaker 1: thanks to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode,
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