WEBVTT - The Future of Gender, Part 1 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota Let's Go Places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:15.720 Forward Thinking. Hello, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the podcasts 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.240 that looks at the future and says, I'm not a woman, 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.160 I'm not a man. I am something that you'll never understand. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.639 I'm Lauren Volgabon and I'm Joe McCormick. And our regular 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.319 host Jonathan Strickland is not with us this week. He 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.200 is off running around somewhere in Europe doing doing who 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.840 knows what. I certainly don't know, but Jonathan's place. Today, 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:40.000 we are joined by our excellent co worker Raquel. Raquel, 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.000 could you please introduce yourself to our listeners. Sure, Um, 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.440 my name is Raquel Willis. I am a digital publisher 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.600 here at how Stuff Works dot com and I'm also 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.600 a writer and activists. Yeah. We wanted to invite Raquel 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.280 onto the show today because we are talking, if you 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.480 perhaps cottoned onto our prince lyric about the future of 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.160 gender and this is a topic that we that we 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.160 had a listener request for, and so I kind of 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.800 wanted to to read this email. It is from Gemma. 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.640 She says, hi, and that said something really nice about 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:12.720 us that I'm not going to repeat because it's embarrassing. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.119 I am delighted to say that you guys have helped 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.399 influence my decision to study artificial intelligence at university next 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.840 year and to do further and to further do research 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.080 in the field. As well as being excited about the technology, 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:27.880 I try to think of how larger social issues will 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.160 be dealt with in the future, such as what impact 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:34.000 computers and AI could have on developing countries, possibly largely 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.679 through education, and if capitalism will ever crumble a bit 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.040 like the politics you talked about in the Star Trek 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.480 Economy episode. Yeah, yeah, that that's that's one of the 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.320 fan favorites I think. Yeah, we hear about that a lot. Yeah, yeah, 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.920 I enjoyed it. Um Gemma says, I try to fight 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.520 against all kinds of inequalities and am an enthusiastic feminist 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.240 us too. There are some interesting ideas about the future 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.320 of gender specifically, such as gender neutrality and genderism linked 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.680 with trans humanism. I think it would be really awesome 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.480 if you guys could touch on some of these ideas 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.120 sometime or just look into it. Thanks for your time 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:10.600 and awesomeness. And then there's a really cool, cute little 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.760 emoticon thing. Well, thank you, Jimma, because I think that 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.280 is a really interesting idea to talk about on this show. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.400 It's a fascinating topic to look at because it occurs 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.560 at the intersection of a bunch of different things that 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.400 we do talk about a lot and and touches all 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:31.280 of them kind of equally. It includes biology, technology, and culture. 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.640 And uh, now, there's obviously no way we can come 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.640 even close to saying everything there is to say about 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.360 a concept is huge and important as gender. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.240 we we we already delayed recording this podcast once because 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.320 we were like, oh, we have too many things to 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.119 say for this to occur today. Yeah, but I think 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:54.080 one thing that we can try to do is just 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.160 look at a few indications of trends in how humans 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.080 have been understanding gender, especially in our culture here in 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.920 the West, and how those trends might continue into the future, 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.280 and then touch on Jemma's idea of post genderism towards 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.360 the end, which is which is a really interesting concept 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.960 that frankly, I think we should have explored on this 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.160 show sometime before, given all the ways it interacts with 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.160 topics we talk about all the time, like trans humanism. Well, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.120 there's a lot of future out there, Joe, and we 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.520 only have two episodes a week. Umuh. And I did 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.080 want to put in here that, uh, of course gender 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.720 doesn't exist in a vacuum. Um, I mean by necessity, 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.560 because it's a cultural and social construct. So so, like 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.680 Joe said, and kind of in the in the interests 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.480 of our heads not exploding totally, we're going to be 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.920 talking mainly today about gender in the West and in 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.600 the United States specifically, and we're going to be speaking 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.400 in some generalized terms. But of course keep in mind 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.080 that you know, the United States is a multicultural society 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.560 and gender gender interconnects with like race and religious beliefs 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.360 and all of these other big, huge factors that certainly 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.640 cannot be ignored. But we might be glossing over a 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:06.839 tiny bit. But hey, speaking of generalized terms, let's lay 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.040 out some definitions because there seems to be some confusion 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.920 sometimes when people are talking about the terms sex and 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:19.080 gender and as a side note, sexuality. So yes, so 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.680 we're going to start off with some generalized terms, just 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.039 kind of breaking it down for you guys a little bit. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:29.080 These are concepts that we live with throughout our entire lives, 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.880 but of course, unless you really really have to, you 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.839 might not look at them too closely. So starting with sex, 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.880 So sex is generally what we think of biologically wise, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:43.320 it's what's going on with your body. So you may 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.400 have always heard that sex is binary, right, it's male 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.479 versus female, But of course we know with the rise 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.080 of genetics and the study of hormones and chromosomes and 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.200 all these different sex therapies, that there's a range. There's 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:03.960 male female, inter sex, and actually you can change your sex. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.320 Then we'll get into gender. So gender is socialized. It's 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.840 kind of the person's personalized version of your sex and 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.559 how you were present to the world. Right, So going 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.479 back to that binary, that's a little iffy because not 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.000 everyone identifies as masculine or feminine or either one of those. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.279 In a strict sense, you can transcend gender, right, You 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.080 can be anywhere on what we consider a continuum or 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.919 the gender spectrum. And then just at a side note, 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:40.400 a lot of times people conflate sexuality with the with 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.520 your biological sex or with your gender, but these are 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.559 all really independent factors. So if you want to break 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.839 it down, you can kind of think of it as 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.880 you know, sex is basically what you are signed with 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.680 at birth or what you are um said to be 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.640 born as. Gender is often how you feel. It's what 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.800 you go to bad as. And sex and sexuality can 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.839 be thought of as who you may want to go 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:13.440 to bad with. Putting it absolutely uh And historically all 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.560 of these definitions have have kind of slid and changed. 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.040 The concepts of sex and gender are not solid as 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.560 much as kind of like like. Tradition dictates that they 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.880 have to have been this way all of the time. Um, 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.920 they haven't been. Certainly, the medical definition has changed a 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.360 whole lot in the past hundred years or so. It 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.400 wasn't until the eighteen nineties that humanity first started figuring 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.920 out that there are chromosomes. The chromosomes exist um chromosomes, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.599 of course, being the winded up bits of DNA that 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.200 helped determine your biological sex. There was a German biologist 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.799 by the name Herman Hanking who was studying sperm formation 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:57.480 in wasps you know like you do and he u 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.839 He noticed that some of the sperm cells had a 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.520 even chromosomes while others had twelve. He called this X 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:09.440 chromosome the X element, hence eventually X chromosomes um the 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.000 X element and hypothesized that it had to do with 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.800 sex determination. His hypothesis was then later supported by two 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.760 American zoologists who are working with grasshoppers around nineteen o two. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.040 Not sure why it was all insects, but anyway, um uh. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.560 It was eventually the subject of of one paper that 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.320 that that I read caused a lively debate for a 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.960 few years. I'm not positive what in like Victorian ish 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.160 times like lively debate precisely means, but I'm but I'm 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.560 delighted by that, so okay. Prior to these studies, though, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.920 it was thought that environmental factors determined the sex of 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.440 an embryo. Oh like like fikeets warm while the embryo 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.960 embryo is developing or something exactly. Yeah. Uh. And eventually 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.720 we realize that there are a number of chromosome all 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.760 conditions and humans not just X X and X why 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.200 but extra xes or wise can be present or a 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.000 single X can exist all on its own and um, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.160 and and that's the the intersex category that that raquel 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.800 was talking about a second ago. And estimates of the 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.240 rate of inter sexuality and the population range from like 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.880 zero point zero two percent to about one point seven percent, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.640 depending on exactly how you define it. So so biologically speaking, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.200 there are not just dudes and ladies like that's that's 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.280 not that's not what's up. Um, And just the fun 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.400 fact you cannot always just assume what your chromosomes are. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.400 You know, there are a lot of different factors that 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.280 can go into your chromosome will makeup and you really 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.440 can only know if you get tested exactly. Yeah, I've 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.679 read stories about that where people so your your your phenotype, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:52.560 your your what what your genes have produced in your 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:57.040 body doesn't necessarily make a difference or it doesn't necessarily 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:02.360 indicate that you have an XX or an x y UM. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.040 And it happened to be around the same time that 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.560 that researchers began realizing the roles that hormones play in 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.160 our bodies. To um that there was some animal research 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.560 in the mid eighteen hundreds establishing the idea that organs 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.400 in the body can communicate with each other via chemicals 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:23.560 like communicate in like a big hilarious eighteen hundreds scare quotes, um. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.680 And and then uh, we got the word hormone. It 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.680 was coined in nineteen O five and of course, you know, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.920 since then, we've we've been able to synthesize hormones in 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.720 the lab and develop hormone therapies to help people who 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.840 were either born with um with a with a genetic disorder. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.199 I mean also technically like insulin is a hormone, so uh, 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.560 that's pretty great that we can synthesize that in labs, 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.560 or of course people who are choosing to change their 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.520 their bodies with hormone therapy. So we've come a long way, 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.599 but we're really still figuring out how individuals bodies regulate 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.480 their own hormones and for the more how those hormones 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.120 interact with with other bodily processes. Yeah, and so that's 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.240 getting us closer to where we are today in terms 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.720 of our understanding of biological sex and uh and intersex conditions. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.480 But there's also a sort of cultural history that we 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:19.960 should look at it in terms of received ideas about gender, 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.679 because with this distinction we made earlier, sex is biology, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:30.600 gender is identity, and identity involves culture, values, norms, expectations, behaviors, 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:32.959 and so I guess we should look at how those 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.079 things have changed in the past. I think a lot 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.479 of people would just assume that, you know, the traditional 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.160 position as they would see it in the West in 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.719 the twentieth century or something like that has always been 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.480 the case everywhere. Well, we just always believed that there 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.240 are men and women, and that men should be masculine 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.400 and women should be feminine, and that the definitions of 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.800 masculine and feminine have been the same. Yeah, but it 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.160 hasn't always been that way everywhere. So, yes, many of 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.240 the world's cultures, historically and even today recognize more than 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.320 just two genders. Um. The idea of a male or 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:13.360 female role as the only options really is in a 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.560 lot of way, it's very um, let's just say, a 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:22.079 lot of cultures have been very creative. Um. So, even 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.960 here in the United States, if we think historically among 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:29.000 Native Americans, the role or the idea of a third, fourth, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.360 or fifth gender, often called to spirit has been widely documented. 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.480 Children who may have been born physically male or female, 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:42.800 but showed an interest or proclivity for another gender role 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.520 within their societies were often encouraged to live out those 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.600 gender roles and and see what fit them best. So, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.640 you know, when you think about these roles and and 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.720 how they were regarded within a lot of Native American cultures, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.080 we won't say all um, these the roles were given 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.240 a lot of respect, and they were often thought of 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.920 as very spiritually powerful. So people who were two spirits 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:11.160 were often shamans and teachers and caretakers. And it's very 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.360 important to remember that there are many two spirit identified 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.480 people around today. And of course there are many cultures 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.080 still throughout the world to view gender in a different 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.880 way than we do here in the United States, and 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.720 the and the the history. I mean, like like we 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:30.200 could do an entire, ridiculously long episode about the changes 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.080 in in this kind of cultural perspective that have happened 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.200 over the past few centuries, let alone the past few millennia, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.440 and UH that it's it's it's really interesting, And that's 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.920 not what we got into today. But what we did 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:48.559 get into is, um, some of the modern attitudes and 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:53.400 definitions that we that we ascribe to gender and sex 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.199 here in the United States, like like like legally and 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.439 culturally speaking. Yeah, that's right, because I think looking at 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.200 law is a good way to sort of get a 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:09.040 gauge for the level of acceptance something UH is encountering 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.640 in the society at large. So you know, how does 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.640 the law treat gender? Does the law even recognize this 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:21.120 idea of gender identity as something different than just what 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.680 genitalia you have or what sex chromosomes you have? And 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:30.080 in US law, traditionally the answer was mostly no, until 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.360 more recently that there was a sex distinction in the law, 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.800 any laws that pertain to how men and women should 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.800 be treated or treated differently or not treated differently. Just 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:47.960 we're trying to use biological distinctions as understood at the time. Ay, yeah, exactly. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.120 They were reverting to the biological binary as they understood it. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.760 For example, in US law, Title seven of the Civil 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.040 Rights Act of nineteen sixty four prohibits, among other things, 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.080 employment discrimination on the basis of sex. So you're not 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:06.400 supposed to, under this law hire a man when there's 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.800 you know, a more qualified woman that really you you 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.880 should be hiring, but you just would rather have a 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:16.280 man working for you. So traditionally this was interpreted by 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:21.160 US courts to refer to biological sex, not gender identity. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.560 But this is changing and through the accumulation of many 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.320 changes in law and judicial interpretation over time. So I 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.440 want to talk about one example I read about in 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:36.040 two thousand twelve, the Federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, or 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.720 the e o C, set this important precedent relating to 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.360 the legal status of gender identity in a case called 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.920 Macy versus Holder, and the holder was Air Culture the 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.800 Attorney General suit being brought to the government about about 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.400 gender discrimination. And so the plaintiff was a police detective 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.600 as she was a ballistics expert who applied for a 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.840 job at a crime hi lab while still presenting as male, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.880 and she seems to have been offered the job pending 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.280 a background check, but then after she announced to change 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.960 in her listed name and gender, the tentative job offer 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:19.080 was retracted. And then she reported receiving contradictory explanations for 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.400 why this happened. One person told her budget cuts eliminated 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.400 the position, and a different person told her, you know, well, 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.680 we went with a different candidate who was farther along 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.120 in the process. According to the plaintiff, and in the end, 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.880 the equal point that the e s C ruled that 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.400 Title seven should apply to gender identity, that was one 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:40.280 of the things that was taken away from the ruling 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.040 in this case. So they wrote, quote, if Title seven 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.600 prescribed only discrimination on the basis of biological sex. Then 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.720 only prohibited gender based disparate treatment would be when an 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.840 employer prefers a man over a woman, or vice versa. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.440 But the statutes protections sweep far broader than that, in 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.440 part because the term gender encompasses not only a person's 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:08.120 biological sex, but also the cultural and social aspects associated 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:13.880 with masculinity and femininity and so yeah, so this is 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.480 one legal precedent for understanding there's a distinction here and 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.520 sort of recognizing that distinction. And of course when courts 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.640 recognize the distinction, it begins to to gain a level 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.080 of leverage essentially over what what can be done with 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.880 the law in the society. And UH, some jurisdictions have 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.880 actually tried to put gender identity into specific terms so that, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.520 for example, it can be demonstrated in the court in 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.640 the case of, for example, an employment discrimination suit on 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.640 the basis of gender identity. Just one example is a 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:50.400 two thousand eleven Massachusetts state law UH that tried to 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.880 offer one of these definitions, and it said, quote, gender 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.560 related identity may be shown by providing evidence, including but 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.000 not limited to, medical history, hair, or treatment of the 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.200 gender related identity consistent and uniform assertion of the gender 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.720 related identity, or any other evidence that the gender related 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.760 identity is sincerely held as part of the person's core identity, 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.000 which seems reasonable. Yeah, So I think legal definitions like 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.600 this provides sort of like additional bricks in the edifice 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.439 of mainstream acceptance of the idea of gender identity is 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.960 something distinct from biological sex and thus something that could 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.760 contribute to this post gender idea that we're going to 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:35.640 talk about eventually here. Right. So, one of the reasons 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.200 or one of the main reasons that gender identity is 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.440 kind of this term that we needed to to describe 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.800 um our experience as a gender is that there are 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.199 so many people who may not identify with the gender 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.200 that they were assigned at birth. Right, So we often 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:57.479 think of um people who may be transitioning from a 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.639 male gender to a female gender or vi versa. But 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.600 of course there are many ways in which people can 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.720 kind of trans egenter. People can identify with gender on 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.200 the spectrum or off of the spectrum, in the middle 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.840 of the spectrum, on different ends of the spectrum. There 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.439 are so many different ways to identify and and we 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:23.160 often associate this with transgender people. And so there actually 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.800 is a report that came out in two thousand eleven 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.879 from the Williams Institute in California. The estimated that there 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.360 are about seven hundred thousand transagender Americans. I would dare 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.800 to say that there are many, many more. Yeah, that 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.320 number sounds slow to me, it does, I mean, but 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:45.080 but maybe maybe I'm also including in my mental calculation, uh, 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.119 non gendered people like like people who do feel that 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.280 they fall outside of the spectrum and aren't necessarily in 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.440 our in our living just however they want to, but 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.440 wouldn't necessarily identify as trans right. And I would imagine, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.000 you know, since two thousand even there has been such 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:06.320 an upset invisibility and just understanding. I mean, there are 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.119 new ways in which people describe themselves, um, within the 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:16.320 transgender community. So there's definitely got to be more out there. Um. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:21.200 But going into uh recognition, right, so it's important that 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.359 people can get that legal recognition of how they identify. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.240 And so one of the things we're seeing lately is 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:33.720 an expansion of legal gender definitions and options. Recently, an 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:40.040 Oregan court ruled in favor of a person identifying as 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:45.400 neither sex option or or traditional sex option or traditional 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:50.320 gender option, and and so that they can really assert 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.120 their identity as a non binary individual. And so historically 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:59.160 oregan law. UM it didn't necessarily specifically limit gender options 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.040 to male or female, but that was kind of the 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:09.040 unspoken idea or rule. It's like the checkbox likes right. 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.240 When rules are unspoken, people sort of default to their prejudices. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.240 I suppose yeah, right. And then of course, so for 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:20.800 decades that legal process really only involved this idea of 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.360 changing from one sex to another or changing from one 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:28.240 gender to another UM. And so that process really was 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.280 very much like changing a name. You know, you submitted 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.840 papers and and and the petition and the petitioner would 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.480 submit that paperwork, you would pay a filing fee, and 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.320 then you know, get a notice of your proposed change. 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:46.280 And so this judge in particular was like, Okay, you know, 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.640 you've got all the paperwork here. If this is how 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.960 you identified, then this is valid. And so this is 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.000 really one of the first cases within the United States 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.600 of of legal representation of people who don't identify a 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.280 strictly male or strictly female. And of course there are 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.040 other countries around the world that have kind of tackled 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:10.040 this issue or have some kind of uh built in 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.840 mechanism legally that that encompasses people who identify with the 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:21.480 gender that isn't just male or female, places like Singapore, Nepal, Pakistan, Bangladesh, 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.879 and then of course there are other places like Australian 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:29.680 Germany that have stipulations on intersex children or people who 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:36.040 are born as intersex identifying um in different ways. Right, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.119 So there really does seem to be a trend, a 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.280 trend towards more recognition of of gender as a separate 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:49.760 category from sex and of non binary sex identification in 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.360 illegal framework. And it doesn't mean that there's not resistance 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.600 to this trend. It's obviously no surprise that people have 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.080 lots of opinions about gender and how things are supposed 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.800 to be when it comes to sex and sex related concepts. 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.600 But I have noticed that on the internet once or twice. Yeah, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.639 so so fairly stated. We all know that people have opinions. 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.119 But I would say, from a from as close to 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.119 we can get as a point of neutral observation, it 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.320 does seem undeniable that in the United States things are changing, 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.000 The law is moving toward a more general recognition of 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.240 gender identity as a category separate from sex and a 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.680 potentially protected class under laws like the sixty four Civil 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.399 Rights Act. UM just one more example in an article 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.960 for the American Bar Association, which mentions the things that 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.720 that I was talking about the last time I spoke 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.639 and more. Evan Schlack predicts that this trend of increasing 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:44.719 legal recognition for gender gender identity will continue into the future. 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.879 And to illustrate the sort of single directionality of the trend, uh, 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:52.600 he points out that only three states recognized and prohibited 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:57.120 employer discrimination based on gender identity between nineteen and two 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.280 thousand three, but that expanded to thirteens states plus the 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:05.280 District of Columbia during the next ten year period up 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.000 to So that does seem like a pretty strong trend 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.919 we can observe there. Uh. And the trend, of course 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.040 in law is mirrored in culture at large is something 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:20.040 that's probably less strictly codified and enforceable, but you can 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:25.040 kind of get a gist of generally how gender is 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:29.399 perceived among you know, in movies and on TV, and 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:32.680 what what people talk about on the internet. Absolutely absolutely 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:36.960 all of that that that fascinating pop culture stuff. Yes, yes, 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.000 So getting out of the kind of nitty gritty legal 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:44.360 world and we're gonna step into the culture. And if 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:46.800 you're like everyone in the world and you follow some 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.640 kind of entertainment and media, um, there has always kind 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:54.440 of been this playground of gender expression. You can think 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.520 about what a lot of who a lot of people 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:01.680 consider this kind of gender nonconformed any goddess, Grace Jones, 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.520 you can think of the late David Bowie, and of 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:11.400 course the also very very recently late Prints. But more 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:14.720 recently there have been a lot of young mouth celebrities 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:21.040 like Will Smith's son Jaden Smith and Magic Johnson's son E. J. Johnson. Um, 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.439 pushing the envelope for a new generation with closets that 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:28.280 are a bit more unabashedly feminine. And then, of course 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:32.280 women have transcended gender in fashion for a long time. 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.440 I mean you can just think of days long ago 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:40.040