1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,520
Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.

3
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 2: Michael Lichin's back with us. Editor, writer, researcher based in Colorado,

4
00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,119
Speaker 2: whose work has appeared in many spiritual publications. With a

5
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,760
Speaker 2: master's degree in divinity, Michael likes to explore the overlooked

6
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 2: and strange parts of Catholic in Christian history, especially local

7
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,320
Speaker 2: Catholic history. He's the former editor of the Catholic Exchange.

8
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 2: Has appeared on programs on Ewtnews, Our program and several

9
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,560
Speaker 2: other independent podcasts. His latest work is called The Weird

10
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 2: Catholic Handbook. And of course, Michael, you're not knocking the religion,

11
00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,480
Speaker 2: but you're talking about some strange stories. Welcome back.

12
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me back, George. It's

13
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:47,839
Speaker 3: always a joy to join you.

14
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 2: Have you been I've been very well.

15
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 3: Thank you for asking. It's been a joy to have

16
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 3: written this book and see some responses and I love

17
00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 3: sharing it.

18
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 2: And there are many weird things happening, aren't there.

19
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,400
Speaker 3: I think life is always a little strange, So yes,

20
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 3: there's always a few weird things happening in our ancestors

21
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:09,880
Speaker 3: saw it too.

22
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,760
Speaker 2: You look at demons, monsters, ghost saints. How did you

23
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,039
Speaker 2: go after these stories?

24
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 3: Well, I've always had an interest in the odd and

25
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 3: the unusual. I've been on the show before to talk

26
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 3: about Father of Moore, who I also talk about in

27
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 3: this book, and we I've always had a fascination with

28
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 3: especially the supernatural or what some might call macabre, like

29
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 3: bone churches and things like that. And I wanted to

30
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 3: write a book that was a bit of a love

31
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 3: letter to all these strange things when I was going

32
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 3: through a difficult period in my life, and that's the

33
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 3: result of this book.

34
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 2: Do Saints have much of a history of fighting demons

35
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 2: and monsters?

36
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 3: They absolutely do. Of course demons. Saints have been fighting

37
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 3: demons since the Apostolic times, many many famous saints. We

38
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 3: have Saint Nicholas. Of course, we're coming up on the

39
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 3: holiday season. He comes up December sixth and on the

40
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,799
Speaker 3: Eve of Saint Nicholas. You even see him teaming or

41
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,160
Speaker 3: fighting demons or monsters on the Eve of Saint Nicholas

42
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 3: to remind people of the various deeds he did. And

43
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 3: he was even also an exorcist. And then of course

44
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 3: There's also Saint Patrick, who fought both monsters demonic birds

45
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,280
Speaker 3: at one point, had many even a few sea serpents.

46
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 2: Why don't we hear any news stories of new saints, Michael,

47
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,360
Speaker 2: These are all older, older saints.

48
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 3: Oh, they very much are. I do actually cover some

49
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 3: newer saints. I talk about Padre Pio, who in many

50
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 3: ways kind of sums up what it is to be

51
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 3: that kind of strange mystical Catholicism. He was somebody who

52
00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,799
Speaker 3: had many great miracles, including by location where he could

53
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 3: be what I call him the saint who was in

54
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 3: two places at once. He could be praying in his

55
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 3: home on San Giovanni Rotundo, but meeting with his spiritual

56
00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,359
Speaker 3: children in New York. And this was something many people

57
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 3: witness so they still do happen, though I do write

58
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 3: about a lot of old miracles.

59
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,359
Speaker 2: Mostly he had the stigmata of Jesus too, did he not?

60
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 3: Did he did? He's probably one of the most besides

61
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,640
Speaker 3: Saint Francis of Assisi, the most famous person who received

62
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 3: the stigmata, which for the listeners, that's when you have

63
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 3: the five wounds of Christ bearing on your flesh.

64
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 2: Truly remarkable. The demons that are mentioned throughout the church.

65
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 2: What are they are? They are they devils? Are they

66
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,640
Speaker 2: humans who weren't bad? What are they?

67
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 3: No, they are angels. They are the angels. And from

68
00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 3: the Catholic perspective, we have Saint Michael, the kind of

69
00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 3: prototypical monster fighter. He cast down Lucifer and a third

70
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 3: of the angels from heaven down to the earth, and

71
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 3: these became known as the demons. They have many of

72
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 3: the same mobilities and the same potential as angels, but

73
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 3: they've turned their will and now instead of serving God

74
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 3: they say, non servio, I will not serve.

75
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,720
Speaker 2: These monsters and demons. How bad were they?

76
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 3: Some were impressively bad. Several times saints were called in

77
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 3: because no one could deal with the particular monster or

78
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 3: the spirit. And so this was something Saint Nicholas was

79
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 3: particularly known for. He, for example, rid a town of

80
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 3: a demonically possessed tree by blessing it and taking an

81
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,160
Speaker 3: axe to it. But this tree had been demanding, had

82
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 3: been like screeching at people, giving them nightmares. And then

83
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,799
Speaker 3: there's also Saint George, where we know from Christian tradition

84
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,160
Speaker 3: he fought a dragon, but before that dragon was fought

85
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 3: by Saint George. It demanded tribute up to and including

86
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 3: human sacrifice.

87
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 2: These demons, where do they come from? What do they want?

88
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 3: They seek? The best is probably Father More who said

89
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 3: that they seek the destruction of human souls. They hate

90
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,600
Speaker 3: God and his creation, and they seek to ultimately destroy us,

91
00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 3: and that destruction is to take us away from God

92
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 3: and his plans for us. And that's the simplest explanation.

93
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 3: I can have. What they want can vary from time

94
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 3: to time. And the worst part about them is their liars.

95
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 3: Some exorcists have reported that demons will often even try

96
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 3: to lie during the course of an exorcism.

97
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,479
Speaker 2: They don't stop. Now, the old saints, were they exorcists

98
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:06,400
Speaker 2: at the same time.

99
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 3: Yes, As a matter of fact, it developed over time,

100
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 3: but in the West it took a while before the

101
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,040
Speaker 3: exorcist was the official position it is now. Now every

102
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,159
Speaker 3: diocese is supposed to have an exorcist who answers to

103
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,640
Speaker 3: these calls. They're usually pretty secretive about it, or I

104
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,800
Speaker 3: should say discreet about everything, because this is a matter

105
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 3: of privacy for a lot of people.

106
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 1: And so.

107
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,039
Speaker 3: There are many ancient saints, all of the apostles. I

108
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 3: mentioned Saint Patrick, who not only was an exorcist for people,

109
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,680
Speaker 3: he also exercised the whole of Ireland from Propatrick where

110
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,640
Speaker 3: he did battle with these demonic birds that would even

111
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 3: block out the sun.

112
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,919
Speaker 2: Well, the Catholic Church sure takes a strong position with

113
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 2: exorcists and exorcis.

114
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 3: Oh yes, oh yes. A lot of people think it's

115
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 3: not still in existent, but it is still going on.

116
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 3: There's the International Association of Exus in Rome where they

117
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,400
Speaker 3: train priests from all over the world, and there's still

118
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 3: exorcists working in dioceses all across the world.

119
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,400
Speaker 2: Well with Michael Lichens's latest book is called The Weird

120
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 2: Catholic Canbook. Tell us about the title, Michael.

121
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, I kind of hit the idea of weird

122
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 3: from a couple of places, mostly just how people usually

123
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,880
Speaker 3: respond to these stories, you know, about saints fighting monsters,

124
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 3: tussling with demonic birds and things like that. They go, oh,

125
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 3: that's weird, that's strange. But there's also kind of a

126
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 3: play on it because weird is from its English Old

127
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 3: English root means fate, and it was also used by

128
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,280
Speaker 3: Christian monks in early England to talk about God's providence.

129
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 3: So the times that God was intervening in people's lives.

130
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 3: They would call it weird. So I'm kind of playing

131
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 3: around with it as well that I want to show

132
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 3: the strange and the unusual that might get misunderstood, but

133
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of beauty underneath.

134
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,120
Speaker 2: How much truth do you think there was to many

135
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 2: of these stories that are in your book.

136
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 3: I go back and forth on that. I'm a little

137
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,080
Speaker 3: more skeptical than some might be, but I'd like to

138
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,040
Speaker 3: say that our ancestors took these that to be true.

139
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 3: But they also understood that there was a metaphor a

140
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 3: meaning behind it, much like Christ's parables. They understood that

141
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,960
Speaker 3: when Saint George's defeating a dragon, it's like anytime Saint

142
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,439
Speaker 3: Michael defeating a dragon and things like that. It's symbolizing

143
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 3: God's power coming in and taking over disorder and moving

144
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 3: into grace and peace. And so they understood it both

145
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 3: in a literal and a metaphorical sense, and so I

146
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,160
Speaker 3: tried to think of it in both. Two.

147
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 2: Give us a story or two from the book.

148
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 3: Sure well, let me go ahead and talk about Saint Patrick,

149
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,559
Speaker 3: because he was we'll have a little bit of darkness time.

150
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,959
Speaker 3: But they will also come up soon we all celebrate it.

151
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,600
Speaker 3: There is this wonderful story on pro Patrick that I mentioned.

152
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 3: He went up there during lint, and this was around

153
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 3: four forty one AD. When he got to the top

154
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,199
Speaker 3: of it, he wanted a fast pray dependence and he

155
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 3: was suddenly assaulted by birds, and not just any birds.

156
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 3: These were blackbirds that also had human speech, and so

157
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 3: they would mock him and called out blasphemies to him,

158
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 3: and this they did constantly. He would throw his bishop's

159
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 3: crosier at them, they would puff into smoke and disappear.

160
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 3: He'd fling holy water at them. They dispersed, but come

161
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 3: right back. And it took him a long while, but

162
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,080
Speaker 3: finally he realized he had a sacred bell, and he

163
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 3: raised up that sacred bell reined out three times. Bells

164
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,440
Speaker 3: are really important in Christianity. This was a calling to prayer,

165
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 3: This was a calling to really take back what was

166
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 3: to be an assaulted him on. And so with the

167
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 3: ringing of the bell, the birds descended, the sun came out,

168
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 3: and suddenly there were doves that were singing God's praise.

169
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 3: And it's one of the most interesting stories. You can

170
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,080
Speaker 3: still see that bell, by the way, in the National

171
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 3: Museum in Dublin.

172
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 2: How do you become a saint in the Catholic Church.

173
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 3: Well, the saint is anyone who has attained friendship with

174
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 3: God and that's ultimately found when you're joined Him in

175
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 3: heaven and perfect unity with Him. And so there's a

176
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 3: number of saints we don't know, and they could be anyone.

177
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 3: They could be you or me, anyone listening. I'm sure

178
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 3: there's plenty of saints out there. I'm still a long

179
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 3: ways off, but it could be any one of us. However,

180
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 3: we know saints in the Catholic Church. The ones who

181
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,640
Speaker 3: are canonized, they get a church named after them, have pilgrimages,

182
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 3: things like that. It's usually when there are three verified

183
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 3: miracles posts mortem that can be attributed to the prayers

184
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:30,200
Speaker 3: of that saint.

185
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 2: Tell us Michael about the chapter on Christian werewolves.

186
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,600
Speaker 3: Thank you. I love that section. There's a couple of

187
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,839
Speaker 3: interesting werewolf stories. Of course, throughout history we've been telling

188
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 3: these kind of stories forever of people get turned into animals,

189
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 3: particularly wolves. There's some versions. It's not quite a were wolf,

190
00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 3: it's dog headedness of Saint Christopher. He often depicted as

191
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 3: a giant in the West, but in some places, particularly

192
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 3: an icon in Mount Athos and a few Russian icons.

193
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 3: He's depicted as having the head of a dog, and

194
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,120
Speaker 3: no one's quite sure why this is, but it's recorded

195
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 3: that he had this head of the dog and that

196
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:26,760
Speaker 3: he was soon baptized accepted his Christian name Christopher, meaning

197
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 3: Christ Bear, and depending on the story, he either helped

198
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 3: Christ through wilderness or across the river. And then there

199
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 3: is also the werewolves of Ossory, which are some Irish

200
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 3: werewolves from the tenth century and they are fascinating story.

201
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 3: It's a fascinating story of a priest who is traveling

202
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 3: a route and he encounters wolves who can speak, and

203
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 3: not only speak, they understand the Christian faith. And when

204
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 3: he asked these wolves, you know, how are you able

205
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,079
Speaker 3: to speak? Wolves can't speak? They answered that they were

206
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 3: transformed into wolves every seven years by a curse after

207
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 3: they had barkereses at a saint and abbot, and thus

208
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,920
Speaker 3: they were doomed to do this every seven years take

209
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,839
Speaker 3: the shape of wolves. But they asked the priest for blessings,

210
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 3: which he was able to do. And the wolves are

211
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 3: still found in manuscripts, especially illuminated manuscripts, and it's just

212
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,720
Speaker 3: one of those interesting stories from the Middle Ages.

213
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,079
Speaker 2: In terms of the saints, how many saints are they're

214
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 2: out there, Michael, We don't know.

215
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:40,280
Speaker 3: Officially, we don't know. We number somewhere like thirty nine

216
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 3: thousand in our visual calendar, but there's many, many more.

217
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:46,559
Speaker 3: We just don't know.

218
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,239
Speaker 2: How do they get certified.

219
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 3: They get certified initially by your local bishop who will

220
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 3: certify various things, including the miracle, and that gets passed

221
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,439
Speaker 3: down to Rome, who ultimately have to decide it. They

222
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 3: will often investigate any supposed miracles. They fully investigate the

223
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,840
Speaker 3: person's life, interview anyone who's surviving who might have known them,

224
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 3: read any biographies that are available, and after a thorough investigation,

225
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 3: if the miracles are found to be done, they're first

226
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 3: declared blessed and then they've become after a few years,

227
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 3: saints officially, and that's where you get the you know,

228
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 3: Saint Joseph, Saint Mary and things like that.

229
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 2: Do we have any living saints?

230
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 3: Now, yes, we absolutely do. I have no clue. No,

231
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 3: I think I know a few living saints. I can't.

232
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 3: I have to admit I know a few living saints,

233
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 3: especially among the hard working priests here in Denver. But

234
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,560
Speaker 3: I think we absolutely have saints hopefully listening to the show.

235
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 3: Like I said, I'm a long long ways off. I

236
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 3: have a lot to fix in my life. But I

237
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 3: have no doubt that there's a few people out there

238
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,479
Speaker 3: who are on the path of sainthood.

239
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 2: Maybe they'll call into the program tonight, please, It's amazing.

240
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 2: I mean, how come we don't hear too much about

241
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 2: saints today as opposed to those from the past.

242
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 3: That's a good question.

243
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,880
Speaker 2: And I think you would think they'd be heroes today they.

244
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,120
Speaker 3: You know, And I think they are absolutely out there,

245
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 3: especially recent ones. For example, the Catholic Church is going

246
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 3: to canonize the first millennial saint, the first saint from

247
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 3: a millennial generation, Carlo Acudas, and while not many people

248
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,800
Speaker 3: outside of Italy have heard of him, recently, a lot

249
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 3: more people have heard of him, especially once he gets

250
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 3: declared a saint. And this is someone he would be

251
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 3: if you were alive. He'd be about seven years younger

252
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,600
Speaker 3: than me. And that's just like, I think we are

253
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 3: still saints, and I think we'll still see, especially in

254
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 3: the world struggles. Saints tend to come when we're needing

255
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,600
Speaker 3: them the most.

256
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 2: Michael tell Us why your book concentrates a lot on exorcisms.

257
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's an important part of the Catholic

258
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,640
Speaker 3: Church that doesn't get a lot of focus. As we

259
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 3: talked about, many saints, especially the popular Saints, were exorcists.

260
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 3: It was part of their ministry. It was one of

261
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 3: Christ's miracles, and it was a blessing he passed on

262
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 3: to his apostles and so on, and so I think

263
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 3: it's a fascinating ministry that I've enjoyed reading and learning

264
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,840
Speaker 3: about over the years, and all my work on bout

265
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 3: Father and Moore and other exorcists, and so when I

266
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 3: was writing this book, I definitely wanted to include some

267
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 3: stories not only from their work and some of the

268
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 3: more famous exorcists out there, but I also included their

269
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,280
Speaker 3: learning and saints for protection against evil.

270
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 2: Did you see the Russell Crowe movie of him playing

271
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 2: the part of Gabriela morth I did.

272
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 3: I really liked how he did it. He got some

273
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,880
Speaker 3: parts of a morph because the mort had such an

274
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 3: interesting dichotomy between he was a jokester, but he could

275
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,879
Speaker 3: also be very solemn and serious, and Russel grow is

276
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 3: just so good at that.

277
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,880
Speaker 2: He's in touch with me every once in a while,

278
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 2: and I told him he did a great job of that.

279
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: He was thrilled to death.

280
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 3: Oh that's good. He did a fantastic job.

281
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 2: The Pope Sexorcist. Mm hm. Did you ever come across

282
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 2: any work by the late Father Malachi Martin?

283
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 3: I have. I first read him actually when I was

284
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 3: like twenty one, but it was The Hossage to the Devil,

285
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 3: and I've read a few things by him since. But

286
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 3: he is a very interesting figure in the history of

287
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church.

288
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,400
Speaker 2: What about ghost stories? How prevalent are they in Catholic history?

289
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 3: Well, as we know, ghost stories are kind of just

290
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 3: part of the human experience. It seems like we've been

291
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:15,080
Speaker 3: telling them since civilization. There's a great lecture by someone

292
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 3: from the British Museum on YouTube who talks about Assyrian

293
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 3: ghost stories. So we've been telling them forever, and sure enough,

294
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church does, and we have a long history

295
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 3: going back basically to the very early stages of Christianity

296
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,879
Speaker 3: with figures like Saint Augustine or Pope Gregory the Great

297
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 3: and then Thomas Aquinas in the Middle Ages also talked

298
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,879
Speaker 3: about ghosts, and we also have some folklore from the

299
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,000
Speaker 3: Middle Ages that's preserved, telling us just kind of the

300
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 3: roots of our modern ghost stories, but also a very

301
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 3: Catholic ghost story, and that they affirm the traditions and

302
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 3: faith of the Catholic Church.

303
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

304
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam

305
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 1: dot com for more