WEBVTT - Jim Kerr 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.280 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Said Podcast. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.919 My guest today is Jim Kerr of Simple Minds. Jim, 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.279 so great to have you on the podcast. A reel 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.840 thrill the Pleasure's main, Bob. I've been a follower for 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.680 a long time, as you may well know, the ratings 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.080 and then eventually the podcast. So I'm really looking forward 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.760 to the chat and thrilled that you invited me. So 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.920 how do you end up living in Sicily? It's a 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.279 heck of a long story. Well, but it's really a 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.360 love affair that began with Italy. I was very fortunate 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.519 in the sense that my parents sent me on a 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:49.280 school trip to Italy when I was thirteen, and even then, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.520 I mean compared to Glasgow, the city that I'm from, 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.240 growing up there in the sixties early seventies, I think 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.120 the best way to describe it is to see that 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:03.520 it was a monochrome existence. And as soon as I 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.480 got off on the plane in Italy, I discovered the 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:12.440 world was in color, and I said, well, you know what, 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.640 when I'm an old geezer, I'm gonna come and live 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.399 here in one day. I always had it in my mind. Um, however, 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.000 at the age of about twenty. We're very fortunate not 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:25.920 only to be in a band, but in a band 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.360 it was already getting quite a lot of traction throughout Europe. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.400 Italy was one of the first places that embraced my band, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.360 and I got to another country very well, north and south. Now, 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.440 the south is a different deal from the rest of 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:41.680 the country. Back then, everyone says, you don't want to 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.360 go be going down there. You don't want to be 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.600 playing down there. The Marfael steal your guitars and Marfa 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.440 will steal this. You live a horrible time. Well, we 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.280 went down at the time of our lives. And how 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.400 many years now, well, oh my gosh, thirty years more. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:00.960 Um So, still he has been a part of my 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:06.840 life lately. I mean I am now fully Italian resident. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.760 Brexit was a final straw for me there. I thought, no, 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.800 I'm not being dragged out of Europe by some buffoon, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:19.520 and so um I am. You could say I'm almost 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:24.359 Italian national, which not many people emigrate to Sicily. It's 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.600 usually a history of immigrating from Sicily. But I'm very 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.080 fortunate to people they had accepted me and the stories 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.360 within stories within stories, Okay, why Sicily as opposed to 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.639 shall we say the mainland? I think the best way 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:42.080 to say this. I mean it's a bit, a bit 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:47.440 of a vague word, but Sicily is cosmic. The history 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.679 of Sicily. I mean, that's what it all kicked off. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.040 That's going back to, you know, way before the Romans, 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.640 It's the Greeks. It's an It's an amazing place. I mean, 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.680 where I am in Sicily, you could say that Africa's 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:04.200 probably nearer than Rome. So you've got that continental drift, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.760 you've got all that history. I mean, it's mind boggling 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.799 and right in the middle of the island. And there's 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.440 a story there as well. Um, there's a huge volcano, 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.440 Mount Etna, that I see every day. Um my grandfather 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.520 used to talk about it. He was in the Highland Infantry. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.320 He was insicially during the war and I think he 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.760 had the time of his life. Yeah, I think he 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:30.440 had a story there as well, because every time he 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.640 had a couple of whiskeys, he would go on about 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.040 how beautiful the Italian women were and how great the 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:36.880 Italian people. When I would say you were there in 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.600 the war, what about the fighting? He said? He said, 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.840 I didn't fight with anyone. Um, it's the greatest place. 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.280 And he kind of planted the seed, you know when 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.880 your kids and people are talking about volcanoes and all 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.280 that stuff. I think he planted the seed. And all 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.400 these well, all these years later, Um, if only he 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.000 would know, if only he could have known how things 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.400 have ended up. So Um, there's a lot of thoughts 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.880 that I haven't quite joined them up. But that's only 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:10.800 the short answer. Now you own a hotel there, Well, 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:15.080 that's right, Um, I think let me see a run 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:21.000 about where am I? Twenty years ago? Um, things weren't 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.560 looking too great for simple minds. I mean, the wheels 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:30.000 had come off, A new generation had come along. Um, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.760 it's the expression you use. A lot or cheese had 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:42.360 been well and truly stolen. And to my songwriting partner Charlie, 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.560 he says, I only I only felt this way for 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:50.080 about two days, but I definitely felt plan bes needed now. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.400 As I already said to you, Sis, Italy was in 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.160 my heart and I thought it was the time when 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.800 the career was going down the tubes, divorces and all 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.839 that it happened. I thought I'm going to go down 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.040 there for a year. Get the language see what evolves, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.240 you know, And I thought, you know, we've been doing 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.080 this for ten twelve years. Even the Beatles couldn't make 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.040 it last more than ten years. I didn't want it 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.440 to the last moment. Ten years. I mean the other 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.320 thing we also felt, We didn't feel. We weren't embittered 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.919 or anything like. We felt no one knows is anything? 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:27.640 What a great time? Maybe that's it? So um all 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.200 that sounds very practical, but there is the other sage 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.400 you think, well, who am I? What am I going 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.640 to do? How do you be ex? Gim care? How 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.800 do you be how do you be ex simple? How 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.040 do you be an ex rock star? There's not really 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.119 a guidebook for that. But I thought, I'll go down 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.719 and I'll just maybe I was in my hemmingway face, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.320 I'll go down and I'll be I'll fish for tuna, 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.359 I'll get the language, I'll fall in love. Well I 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.120 didn't fish for tuna. I did get the language, and 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.880 inevitably I felt in love. Was all as a woman involved, 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.600 as I'm not, um so, there's always a lover involved. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.240 Um So, all of that came to be and I 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.440 was loving it. I was staying in this Uh, friends, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.400 apartment the basement of his place, and I felt so 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.120 full of vitality and I thought this, this is the 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:23.960 place for me. And just as I was thinking that, 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.039 a piece of land became available next to us, and 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:31.360 I thought, hmm, bed and breakfast. Maybe I could make 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.360 that work because it had a planning permission now, and 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.280 from a family of builders as well, back in Glasgow. 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.560 And I spent a few years in building sites just 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:45.279 before getting into music. And you can imagine when I 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.839 told the bank manager back in Scotland, and when I 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.400 told our accountant that I was going to buy land 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.640 in Sicily and I was going to build what has 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.840 become a hotel. They said I was crazy. They said 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.520 it is the worst place. Italy was the worst place 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.320 in Europe to invest. Sicily was the worst place in 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:11.240 um Italy to invest. And I said, okay, I hear you, 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.240 I hear you, I hear you. I won't do it. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.679 I got up pretty much the next day and signed 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:21.840 the papers and we haven't looked back. Okay, so why 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:28.720 build as opposed to just buy something? Well, the old 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.000 hotels they come with all these planning permisss. Sorry you 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.800 you can't get planning permissions you know, when you go 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:39.440 in those those old, ancient places, I mean, it's very 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.920 hard to make it work in terms of well, unless 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:47.600 you've got gazillions. This place was available with a certain 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.680 kind of planning permission for a certain kind of building. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.000 Is not the most beautiful building, but it has the 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.280 most beautiful views. And that was a big, big part 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:02.720 of it. And obviously I had friends there as well, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:07.160 a partner who shall we say, had all the right contacts, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:12.440 and you know, I mean there's a whole book in 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.800 in that. But it wasn't all plane sailing. I mean 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.040 some nights I woke up in the middle of the 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.440 night in the colts were thinking what the heck have 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.360 I done here? But as soon as the place opened, 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.560 it's been open now twenty years. People go there with 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.559 people who content fifteen years on the trot. They love 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.320 it as much as I do. And it goes without saying. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.400 I'm not involved in the running of it. Thank God 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.480 for that. It would be more like faulty Towers if 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.280 I was involved in the running of it. Um it's 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.679 run by professionals, and and we keep adding to it 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.200 as well. I have to say. During the two years 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:57.080 of pandemic. Obviously it was closed, and we keep adding 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.040 to it. I mean the futures calling though, I'll have 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.520 to decide the years to come. Just cause it's my 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.920 passion doesn't mean I says my kids passion, And you know, 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.679 I'm not going to be here forever, so there are 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.480 decisions to be made. But but it's been great for 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.560 me um as much as it's great at the end 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.640 of the night when people come to a concert and 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:25.040 you send them home, happy, revitalized, you can imagine that equally. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.920 So perhaps even more so the people that come on 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.439 holiday to a place and you you know, they came 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.800 in from London, or they come in from Stockholm, or 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.600 they came in from whatever, and you know they look 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.920 a bit gray and their shoulders are down, and a 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:44.320 week later they're full of color and revitalized. And uh, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.400 to be of service is a great thing. So how 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.440 many rooms does it have and how many people can 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:53.040 stay at one time? Well, we when we started it 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.640 was fourteen that was the original planning. We're up to 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:01.720 just just under fifty now, so yeah, mostly double rooms. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.439 And where do you live? I live nearby. I mean 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.280 it's that thing I don't go in every day because 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:10.840 you go in every day you just see things that 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.920 are wrong. People are having a whale of a time, 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.640 but you justly see things that are wrong, and you 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.560 think I told you to fix this last week or 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.719 you know, or haven't we got that together yet? I 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.839 mean that makes me sound like I'm a perfectionist. I'm not. 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.760 And then I look around and actually see people chilled 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.960 and having a great, great time, and I think, well, 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.199 maybe it's not so bad. I mean it's not. I've 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:37.719 gotta see. It's not some rock star seehy hotel. It's 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:41.760 a nice place. It's got sold. Um, people feel good 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:47.920 sitting there and um. So you know, sometimes I do 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.520 a blitz. I go in when they're at least expecting me. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.520 I don't tell them when I'm going in. Let's go 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.920 back to your inspiration for building it at the moment 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.000 you thought Simple Minds was reaching the end of its life. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.800 If Simple Minds had reached the end of its line, 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.280 how are you doing financially? Obviously need something to occupy 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.520 your time. But if you were, you set for life 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.400 when Simple Minds was, you know, up in the air. Well, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.360 we were very fortunate because we've been looked after I 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:23.839 have to see. I mean, um, we've done well, particularly 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:29.480 the last say that was twelve years up until that 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.400 time of thinking maybe the game's up here behalf of that. 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:39.240 It was very lucrative. Um but as you know, a 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.120 divorce here and a divorce there on a tax bell here, 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.400 an attax bill there. But since I was young, I'd 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.880 always made pretty good investments as well and properties, and um, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.880 we really had been looked after well. Good accountant. A 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.920 woman called Sandra Dodds who was probably more like miss 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.960 Jean Brodies you more like a headmistress to us, who 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.880 kept us on a straight and narrow you know. She 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:07.760 would tell you, what do you need two cars for? 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.920 Are you crazy? What are you talking about? A boat? 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.920 What's this? What's that? And she would basically kick her ass. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.640 And at the time she would talk about pensions. When 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.040 we were you know, we would only twenty two and 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.600 you think, penchion, I'll never be sixty five, Well I'll 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:31.240 be sixty three next month. Um. So um yeah, if 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.040 we would have been we would have been okay, had 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.720 we remained sensible. So we're in an era where people 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:44.000 are selling their rights. Do you still own all your rights? 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.559 Just recently up until just recently above UM, but no, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.920 we have now sold their rights very recently. So what 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.520 happened recently? It was time there was an offer there. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.120 It was time we looked at what the publishing had 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.400 been bringing in. We looked at the offer, We looked 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.000 at how we could be intelligent. UM. The way we 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.839 set that up over about a period of two years. 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:12.640 It was a lot of back and forth. We thought 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.080 about our kids, We thought about investments that we have 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:21.040 and how we could possibly do better. We considered everything. 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.120 It was time as basically the answer, and who did 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:28.319 you sell to? B MG? And did you sell a 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.960 hundred percent? Or do you still retain anything we sold? 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.680 And that's the publishing. What about the record royalties? The 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.360 records now they're they're still there, But of course we 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.960 don't own our records. We get the royalties, as you say, 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.640 but I don't own them. So what do you do 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.280 with the money. I haven't done anything yet, Bob. You 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.000 know about some training shoes last week. I guess what 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.600 I'm saying is, when you have publishing, they pay you 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.920 every six months. Probably your deal with be even though 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.440 they can not to pay of what your rode and 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.439 then then you get a check, you pay the taxes 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.120 and then you can put it in the stock market. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.120 You can leave it in cash. So you know, have 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.599 you just left it in cash waiting to see or 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.920 you invested it. It's so recent and we have conversations 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.320 about it every week about what's the next move. But 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.920 guarantee we won't be going and spending it on post cars, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.360 that's for sure. What Scotsman. So why does Scots have 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.400 the reputation of being cheap? Is that real? No, it's not. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.560 That's something to do with Walt Disney. I think one 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.600 of those cartoon things where you and um, I don't know, 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.480 but uh and my experience that is not. But we 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.280 like to play up to it. We like to have 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:58.000 fun with with that. Um. But it's certainly not real. Okay. So, 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:03.640 prior to Brexit, Scotland was constantly talking about seceding from 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.600 the UK. Now subsequent to Brexit they're talking again. What's 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.720 your take on that? I mean, it is a strange thing. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.040 We grew up to tell you, it was really we 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.240 grew up in a place industrial Britain and everyone in 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.600 Glasgow really there was only one party for us. It 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.760 was the Labor Party. But that was the industrial age, 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:30.640 and of course you could see the political figure who 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.480 presided over most of her my generation's career was none 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:39.560 other than Margaret Thatcher, who a lot of the working 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.640 class would say was a nemesis. I mean, my take 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:48.920 on it was that a lot of those old industries 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.440 people had stolen their cheese as well. Globalization came, shipbuilding 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.360 could be done elsewhere, iron could be done elsewhere, and 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.680 a lot of these places didn't move with the times. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:06.080 And then they were left the industries needing constant subsidies. 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.360 Margaret Thatcher comes along and said, no, no, no, those 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.320 days are gone. We're going to close all of this now. Again, 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.280 in a practical sense, comes to business, you would say, well, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.880 that's the way it goes. But there were communities left overnight. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.280 Not even any empathy. I mean, I know you have 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:27.400 that in the States as well. Just nothing. Um so 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:33.600 she everyone I grew up with in Glasgow. I don't 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.400 think hate is too strong a work to you. They 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.280 hated her and they couldn't wait for the dawning of 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:45.360 new labor. A new labor finally came with Tony Blair, 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.640 Gordon Brown and people in my generation thought okay, we'll 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.440 see a much more sympathetic, we'll see a much more 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.840 intelligent But I have to see from my perspective the 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:02.240 time they came in within weeks it looked like that 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.879 was a fallacy as well. Basically the right and left 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.240 they had all come into the center, into the middle, 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.080 and in the case of Scotland, in the case of Glasgow, 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.000 most of the population of Scotland's in the central belt. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.880 They turned their back on labor the war as well, 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:26.720 and this idea that Blair was bushes puddle didn't go 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.680 down well and the Scottish Nationals started to play a 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.399 card then and everyone almost as a protest vote, because 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.639 you know, no one was really thinking about what's the 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.720 currency going to be as the oil going to run out. 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.439 Everyone was just saying, we want nothing to do with 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.480 these people in ten Downing Street anymore. And to a 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:53.200 degree that's still the case. I mean, the true nationalists 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:58.240 will tell you that Scotland can exists in the same 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:03.400 way Denmark and Norway in Finland do. But let's be honest, Norway, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.399 Denmark and Finland have had a long time to practice 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.080 at in Norway, Denmark, in Finland, you can't just turn 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.320 it over night. I there would be a general look 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.359 at the upheaval with Brexit. I mean there would be 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:23.200 another colossal upheaval. Um. People would really have to think 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.600 about that. I don't know if they do. I mean 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.040 what we really wouldn't need. I think with respect to 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.800 the people that's in charge, they're just now you would 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.320 need a supervisionary to pull that off with some applume. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.480 I don't see that supervisionary from where I'm standing. But 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.400 you've got to remember I'm not there anymore. I'm in Italy. 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.200 So you talk about living in Italy. You know, we've 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.240 been exposed for a long time of people who are 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.600 tax exiles from the UK. The stones other acts are 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.440 their tax advantages? Do you live in Italy? I mean 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:03.520 a lot of the European countries now have incentives, but 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.920 but I would still pay a lot more tax in 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:11.840 itly than most Italian people. Okay, And just to be 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.919 very specific, irrelevant of Scotland's place in this, what do 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:23.520 you think of Brexit? Oh? Horrendous? I mean, no one 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.560 really took it serious. That's the problem. No one took 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:31.400 it serious. Um, And we woke up that day I mean, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.800 I think I think I'm rating seeing this. The biggest 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:39.800 disappointment I believe i'm rating seeing is the demograph young 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.439 kids didn't turn out to vote, ironically, and it was 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.800 their future that was a stake why they didn't turn 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:55.359 out to vote. Um, the anti Brexit movements they put together. 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.639 There was no campaign that she thought this is a joke, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.639 it'll go away. And and I think we heard that 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.480 about Trump as well, did we not leading up to it? 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.479 This is a joke, This isn't gonna happen, This is 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.239 not gonna be um. I mean, everyone seemed to be 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:15.800 against him, the media, tech, you name it. Everyone was 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:20.280 against him. It seemed apart from a lot of people 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.960 on the ground who wanted to kick out at something. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.320 That's what it looks like Brexit. And I would imagine 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.760 there'll be some parallels with the Trump voughte. Okay, now 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.960 you know there's all kinds of issues with visas and equipment. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.800 Now in terms of your being members and equipment, are 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.119 you sourcing that all from Europe? Or do you have 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.440 VC issues? Are you caught up in the Brexit world. 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:48.840 They tell me it's been a nightmare. They tell me 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.239 everything is ten times harder. Um, that's coming from you know, 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.280 our production guys. I mean even today I have to say, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.240 it's like a whole catalog and stuff you've got to 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.160 deal with. Um. I came off a bus today, fourteen 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.960 hour drive from Luzanne. Now you said, well do you 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.200 have to take the bus? No, normally we wouldn't with 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.680 that kind of drive. But traveling just now anywhere between 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.720 just as chaos. Some air travel and airports trying to 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.679 get their act together after the pandemic. But also I 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.879 mean even getting on a plane two weeks ago to Oslow. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.800 When we turned up in Oslo, people were UK passports. 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.080 We were in a queue with everyone else for about 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.240 fifty minutes just trying to get into Oslow on on 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:41.280 an otherwise quiet Wednesday afternoon. Whereas for the last well, 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:46.280 all my entire life you just walked through. Um, so 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:51.000 it's it's still um. It just seems a real message. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.520 It seemed like, um, well, as you know, the slogan 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.520 for Brexit was just get it done, and it sounds 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.000 like as though that was all that was going to count. 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.600 There was no thought about and what's next, and what's 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:09.000 next and what's next? So um, everyone's left, everyone who 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:14.280 was traveling, everyone who does business internationally with Europe um 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.480 as paying the cost right now, you know, and something, Yeah, 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.760 it'll get sorted, it'll get sorted. But I don't see 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:25.040 any rush towards that. I don't even know what it means. Um, 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.000 I have to see I spend my time in Europe. 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.159 Of course I live in Europe, most of our friends. 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.679 I find the whole thing embarrassing. So you talk about 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.639 this moment approximately twenty years ago we said, hey, is 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:43.600 there a future for simple minds? What turned you around? Said? 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:52.720 There is a future? Well, funny enough, probably probably about 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:59.040 two years after turning up in Sicily and thinking those thoughts, Um, 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.359 you know, nothing seemed to be on our side with 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:11.120 without a record deal, we're without a publishing deal, without management. Um. 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.480 I really felt this is this is going to be 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.720 a tough one. No one in the media was interested. 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.040 But there was a couple of things came along. An 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:25.520 amazing thing social network where if you were a band 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:30.560 and you would fans still in the world, you could 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:32.800 talk to them direct, so you could say there was 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.480 a glimmer of hope there. But actually what happened was 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.719 the phone started to ring if you're a good band, 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.399 if you're a great band, and I would like to 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:49.359 think we're certainly the former, and we challenged to be 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.840 the latter. Every night it seemed the phone would ring, 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:59.080 people started asking us to play. Now. The thing was, yeah, 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.280 but how are we going to play what kind of things? 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:04.639 I mean, I don't want to be disparaging, but we 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:09.560 didn't want to do those eighties kind of sad you 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.119 know what I mean, all these eighties acts bundled together. 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.560 We definitely didn't want to do that. Um, So we 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:18.480 turned a lot of things down. But what we did 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.280 do was we started to write songs again. I mean, 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:25.560 the big, the real big thing was at that point 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.240 you find out who you really are. And I'll say 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:30.959 to you like this, if you're in the back of 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:36.480 a van or mini boss driving past the stadium that 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:41.399 you once sold out, on route to a club that 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:45.200 is not sold out, you really find out a lot 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:49.360 about yourself. First thing you find out if you've got 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:52.960 the stomach to continue, you ask why you do it? 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.679 And he said, well, what's the answer to that. I 0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.120 remember when I was a kid looking at the old 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.359 blues guys. I think, you know, I mean, I mean, 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:06.480 those guys didn't even get paid initially for the longest time. 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.160 John Ley Hooker and Chuck Berry and those guys didn't 0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:14.720 eventually be be king. But you looked at them and 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:17.600 they were the only old guys then, and it was 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:21.000 written on their face why they did it. It's who 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:27.320 they are. Well, we found out then that that's also 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:30.040 who we were. We were by that time, twenty were 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.720 by that time fifteen years in. How do you stop 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:36.760 writing songs when that's what you've done since you were thirteen? 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:40.399 You somehow have to silence the voices that are telling 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:42.760 you this is pointless. It's never gonna be the same, 0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:49.399 It's never gonna be what it was. And you have 0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:53.080 to decide what are we gonna do here? Are we 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:56.159 gonna go around like just punch drunk boxers because we 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:59.320 don't know what else to do, or are we gonna 0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:02.600 recome it like we did when we were kids. Now, 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:04.360 when you're a kid and there's nothing else in your life, 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:07.200 you're eighteen, you're seventeen, you commit everything that nothing else 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:09.600 in your life. You can't believe you're getting the chance 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:12.000 to make music night. Indeed, that's all we ever wanted 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:15.000 to do we've got a record deal. Finally that was possible. 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:18.200 But then you know, you get older and you've got 0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.760 a room in your life or other kids, success comes along, 0:26:20.800 --> 0:26:24.119 you've got some money. You you know, you're living a 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:32.040 much softer um. Are you gonna You've gotta turn your 0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:34.000 back and all that and going to a crappy old 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:37.760 rehearsal room again and re engage and going there Monday, 0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:43.480 if Friday and work through. Back to the songs, back 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:47.040 to try and make the band great again, back to 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:49.960 finding a great manager, back to finding a great age 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.960 And are you really going to engage when you don't 0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:56.760 have to because you've got enough pastor you've got enough 0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:02.040 of I mean, you know there's billionaires out there, but 0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:06.879 I'm very fortunate as much that at the time in 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:11.960 my life. I've always felt rich because I always felt 0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:14.720 I had enough. And when I say I had enough, 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:20.439 it's more than people I want to school. So the 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.280 thing was, can we engage? Can we really try and 0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.960 draw something out of ourselves here? And that's what we 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:31.080 decided to do. We were flat lining. We had to 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:33.159 get up, we had to get off the table. We 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.720 had to we had to get the ignition going again. 0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:40.080 We had to we had to turn the cat around, 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:43.000 get it going in the right direction, and then we 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:45.440 had to find out how many miles we could take 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:50.520 it down the road. And well, here we are whatever 0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:54.640 fifteen eighteen years later, and it's gone down the road 0:27:54.680 --> 0:28:04.680 and it's gone great. Okay, Simple Minds has been through 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:11.320 many personnel changes and the two continuusing members of yourself 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:15.840 and Charlie Burchill. When you said you got an inspiration 0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:20.880 to write songs, was that something individually? Did you call 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.600 up Charlie? Did Charlie get ahold of you first? What 0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:27.399 actually happened? Well, I've known Charlie since we're eight years old. 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:33.879 We're both from Glasgow, we're both from southside of Glasgow. Um. 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:37.119 At the age of it, we moved into this new 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:40.760 housing ski well you call them housing projects, but as 0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:45.000 a housing scheme, a high rise, high rise apartment which 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:49.200 they just started building in the major cities and the 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:54.240 UK and particularly Glasgow. I mean those buildings quite soon 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.960 got a bad raw, but we loved them anyway. The 0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.680 first day literally moving in, my mother said, you know, 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.680 as you did at that time, only want one brother, 0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:08.160 she said, get out and play, going out and discover 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:12.840 the neighborhood. Now they were still building this housing project 0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:18.600 cement sand bricks, and we went down the street and 0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:21.480 there was these kids playing on this huge sand castle 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.200 and the kids sitting at the top. I later discovered 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.960 his name was Charlie Burchell, and we said, um, you know, 0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:32.000 can we play? Yeah, you can play, let's play. So 0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:34.200 that was the first time I met Charlie. But the 0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:37.400 real key moment with Charlie was, and I remember this 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:43.480 clearer than he does apparently, was but three years after that, 0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:47.800 at the age of eleven. Um, you remember this because 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:50.280 they I think it was an idea that came from 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:54.840 the States. Do you remember, Um remember with cigarette packs 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:58.560 you got coupons and if you if you saved them up, 0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:02.880 you could there was a g catalog. Well, Charlie's mom 0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:07.960 saved up a ton of Embassy coupons and she got 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:12.920 charlie six string Spanish guitar. And I still say to 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:15.280 this day, if Mrs Burshell hadn't done that, you know, 0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:19.760 I'd be driving a taxi. But I remember Charlie getting 0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:22.240 because he was the first kid I knew that had 0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:26.960 a guitar, and it was a summer's night he was 0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:32.320 in the street with that. Everyone was looking around um 0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:34.280 and it seemed like within a few months he could 0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:37.560 play t Rex songs, she could play boys songs. He 0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:41.960 could and you know, to me, it was just it 0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:46.720 was magical. And that's really how we how we started 0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.440 to hang out. I mean we were in the same 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.240 class at school. There was a few of it. Everyone 0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:54.240 was starting to get into music, but there was a 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:58.120 few of us who were really into it at that time, 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:02.920 the same time, age or twelve ago. My first job disgusting, really, 0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:06.280 but my mother got me a job cleaning the back 0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:09.719 store of a butcher's shop, amongst all the blood and crap. 0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:14.720 But here's the thing. The first week I got paid 0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:20.480 five pounds, well five pounds. Then to give you, they 0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:23.640 give you some perspective. I bought my first concert ticket 0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:29.600 sixty pence and it was for the matenee of David Bowie. 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:34.040 Ziggy started us tour. Now sixty pence had five pounds. 0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:37.040 I was Frank Sinatra. I could take you an album 0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:41.360 cost one twenty and pretty soon I had this huge 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:46.600 album collection that matched Charlie's Elder Brothers collection, and him 0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:49.080 and I would swap and we would be everything from 0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:55.120 Bowie to Roxy Lou Read, all the prog rock stuff, Um, 0:31:55.160 --> 0:31:59.000 Alice Cooper, the Doors just we're told a lot of 0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:03.440 people you've had on the show, Todd Rungren Sparks, Um, 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:07.360 on and on, and there was a few other guys 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.640 in class as well that had that same overwhelming passion 0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:16.120 and really simple minds grew out of that. Okay, let's 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:21.520 go back to the beginning. So what were the circuits dances? 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:23.800 Financially if you growing up, what did your parents do 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.920 for a living? How many kids in the family. Well, 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:30.600 my parents were my dad was he worked in construction. 0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:32.880 My dad or my uncles there were some of them 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:38.000 were tradesmen, some of them laborers. So it was building sites, 0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:42.520 cement and sometimes a Saturday if he was building a 0:32:42.560 --> 0:32:45.160 garage for someone or we would go and help and 0:32:45.240 --> 0:32:48.200 would get some extra pocket money. But we grew up 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:53.920 with those kind of physical guys. Um and Mom on 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.880 the other hand, she was from a family of nine. 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:02.040 All the interesting thing was being in Glasgow were obviously Scotts, 0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:07.560 but Glasgow is such a strong Irish community. Grandparents on 0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:10.440 both sides were Irish, so it was almost brought up 0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:14.080 with an Irish culture inside of Scotland, so we weren't 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:18.040 quite sure who we were. We knew that London seemed 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:22.360 the long place away. Um we weren't Irish because it 0:33:22.480 --> 0:33:25.959 was real Irish people, but we were definitely brought up 0:33:26.000 --> 0:33:29.600 with this culture. Mom she was a machinist. She was 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:38.160 she worked in the factories, heavy garmentree police uniforms, army uniforms, 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:41.920 hard working girls. And I was thinking today because you 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:44.440 know I was, I knew were going to speak. And 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:50.640 my earliest music memory was Mom would get paid once 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:52.760 a month and my aunt would take us up to 0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:57.440 meet her at lunchtime. And two things great about that 0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:01.640 was would go to this car where we had nicker 0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:06.840 Boker Glories which were just wow ice cream and fruits. 0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.279 And then she would go to the record shop and 0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:14.640 she would buy a single, usually the Beatles, um, sometimes 0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:18.160 the Rolling Stones, and we go home and she'd put 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:23.800 it on, she'd dance, and um, that was the first 0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:27.880 music I was conscious of. On that side, he was 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:31.640 also a big, big music fan. He liked people like 0:34:31.719 --> 0:34:35.000 fat Dominos. He liked a lot of the country stuff 0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:39.600 we called the country and Western then Patty Lane, Jim Reeves, 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:44.120 all of that stuff really big in Scotland, Johnny cash 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:47.480 Um and a lot of Irish rebel songs. So that 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:50.920 was that was the kind of music that that was 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:56.400 the background. People would work hard, they would enjoy themselves 0:34:56.400 --> 0:35:00.000 on a Friday and Saturday night singing and dancing. Glass 0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:04.040 was still like that. People Glass region spend their money. 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:08.359 Edinburgh's old money. Um, they hold on to it. That's 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:11.839 the cliche. But Glasgow, and it's the time I grew up, 0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:15.800 it had more dance halls than anywhere else in Britain. 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:20.320 People just love to have a ball. If probably Glasgow probably, 0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:22.200 I mean to your American audience, if you could imagine 0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:27.799 probably Detroit or New Jersey type of environment. Okay, so 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:32.799 how many kids in the family. Well, there's two brothers. Um. 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:37.120 I was the eldest. I am the oldest. UM. But 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:40.840 the interesting thing was you'll find this interesting because you 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.120 you mentioned the band. But at the age of five, 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.240 kid upstairs from us, because we lived in a tenement. 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:51.520 Then kid upstairs his parents split up and it was 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:53.640 kind of odd. It was very odd at that time, 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.440 it was unheard of, but it was his Motherhoo had 0:35:56.520 --> 0:35:58.400 left and he was left. He was loved with it 0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:01.520 dad and as dad remember his dad coming down. I 0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:03.759 remember clearly there was a bit of a commotion and 0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:07.600 basically my mom said his name was Joe Joseph was 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:10.240 going to be coming for lunch and dinner and and 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:14.560 he might be staying for us with us for a while, 0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:17.400 and which he started great. Another friend, Joe was already 0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:20.240 my my friend. Well, Joe stayed with us for about 0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:25.719 the next fourteen years. And Joe also was in a 0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:30.760 band called The Silences, who you mentioned just recently. Another 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:34.640 music fan. Another another one who wasn't prepared just to 0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:37.520 listen to records, wanted to actually get around to making them. 0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:41.040 So essentially it was like four boys eventually four boys 0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:44.759 and uh and the one one family. What kind of 0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:49.080 kid were you? Were you popular? Did you do well 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.560 in school? How did it end with school? I think, 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:54.799 going back, the first thing that really marked me out 0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:58.400 young I had a very quite pronounced speech impediment, a 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:01.800 stutter or stammer. There was no one else at school 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:08.200 had that, and I wasn't bullied or anything like like that, 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:12.640 So I'm not gonna go down that that road. But yeah, 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.920 you know, people got used to that. But whenever I 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:19.960 went outside of you could say my safety nead of 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:22.120 people who knew me, I would I would be quiet. 0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:25.480 I was very quiet, and I think I realized this 0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:32.359 later on. UM being being quiet forced me to have this. 0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:36.040 I think I also had a great inner dialogue. And 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:38.760 I also made me listen much more to people, because 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:41.600 if you're not talking, you're listening, or you should be, 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:45.319 or you're noticing. And only recently I thought, God, that's 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:48.000 that helped me a lot, you know, in terms of 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:52.120 being a writer or or UM. At the time, it 0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:55.880 didn't seem to be an advantage. But anyway, it was 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:57.960 super announced that, you know, they wanted to send me 0:37:58.000 --> 0:38:03.359 to UM, a different school, and my mother was having 0:38:03.440 --> 0:38:08.480 none of that. UM. But other than that, I was popular. 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:12.320 I was popular at school. I was kind of I 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:14.399 was pretty bright as well. I mean when I when 0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:17.719 I tried, I would I would get casual one year. 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:20.440 The pressure would be on to do well, and I 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:22.920 would do well, and then I'd get casual the next 0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:27.720 year and the results would go down. So I enjoyed school, 0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:31.400 I am. The teachers were great, as I said to 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.080 you earlier, even on a school trip to Italy. The 0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:38.319 age at thirteen. You know that teachers would take us 0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:44.279 there and show us the world um or begin what 0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:47.400 became a hunger to see the world. So I was 0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:54.480 I enjoyed. I I really enjoyed school, enjoyed the cameraderie. Um. 0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:57.719 But the big thing was going back to Dad. That 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:01.120 was a construction worker. As I said, you know, it 0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:05.120 was all about the pubs after work. And but the 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:08.920 one thing so different from Dad and all his mates 0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:14.320 was he was a reader, a real reader, educated himself. 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:17.520 And I remember him taking me to the first library 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.920 when I was six and getting me signed up and 0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:22.880 him telling me, you don't know what you've got in 0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:25.160 your hand. Well, the first thing you told me. He 0:39:25.239 --> 0:39:28.880 was so proud because the local library, the local library 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:34.040 was funded by Carnegie, who everyone in America, of course 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:37.880 is aware of Carnegie and what he did there. But 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:41.759 he was a Scotsman from dun Firm one. He told me, 0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:44.960 this man has done this, He's built these libraries. What 0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:48.880 you have in here, this is a golden ticket. Kids 0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:52.400 around the world would die or have this. And I 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:56.640 remember him, and boy was he right. I mean he 0:39:56.840 --> 0:40:00.719 was he was banging on there. So that's a kind 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:05.160 of that's the kind of background. Okay, I'm six years 0:40:05.200 --> 0:40:08.000 older than you, so what do I remember. I remember 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:12.399 we had transistor radios, we were listening to sports. We're 0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:17.080 kind of aware of the uh, you know, the popular music. 0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:20.760 Then the we all wanted to be athletes. The Beatles 0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:25.840 came along. Everything changed. Everybody bought a guitar, everybody wanted 0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:29.440 to be in a band. So when you grew up, 0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:33.520 you talked about meeting Charlie etcetera. Did you think you're 0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:36.319 gonna be a musician or did you think you're gonna 0:40:36.320 --> 0:40:38.879 be somebody else? And when did you say this is it? 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:41.120 This is what I'm gonna do. Well, no, I mean 0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:44.640 you've been six years older. You you remember the Beatles, 0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:47.759 you know, appear on TV. For the first thing, for me, 0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:51.320 the Beatles were more my mom's thing, even though because 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:53.800 you know, they were just your mom and dad danced 0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:58.239 to them, and so it wasn't until for me it 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.279 was seeing Mark Boling where that was the first thing 0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:05.040 that I thought, this is main Mark Bowland appeared on 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:08.560 top of the Pops and you know it was like 0:41:08.600 --> 0:41:10.800 the coming of Jesus. Well we thought it was Jesus, 0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:14.040 but it was probably more John the Baptist Jesus was 0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:18.440 still come. That was ziggy Stardust. But seeing Bowling, Uh, 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:22.120 that's when we started buying our own records, not our 0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:26.600 modern dad's records, are not our big big Brothers records. 0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:30.440 This was our thing and that was something. But it 0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:34.240 really began with a life thing because having the money 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:38.520 to go to concerts. Now, um I told you about 0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:41.360 you know the boy ticket that the the other great 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:44.920 memory was seeing um you know when you turned up 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:47.840 and for some reason, tours with start in Glasgow. I 0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:50.680 think the agents would say send them up there. You 0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:54.040 know whoever it is, the Glasgow audience is a great 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:56.440 one to get a start with. Well, I remember it 0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:59.799 would go like this. Let's say it was Genesis with 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:02.880 Sell in England by by the Pound. They would be 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:05.319 on the whistle Test. They agree whistle Test, which was 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:09.799 our rock program on a Tuesday night. The Wednesday, I 0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:14.000 think Enemy would come up on the train from London, 0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:16.600 so we had the New Musical Express talking about the 0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:21.520 tour coming. Thursday would be Sounds, the next magazine Friday 0:42:21.560 --> 0:42:24.360 would be Melody Maker. All this build up and tours 0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:28.239 would begin on a Friday night and usually I would 0:42:28.280 --> 0:42:32.200 be there in those years. But I like telling people 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:35.680 this story. This is I really looked out. There was 0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.799 a kid in my class who said to me, you 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:41.360 know you're gonna know all this muse all this weird stuff, 0:42:43.080 --> 0:42:44.799 gigs and all that. He said, I can get you 0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:47.080 into any gig you want to go to, which is 0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:50.600 quite a statement. And I said, how come? He said, 0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:54.080 my brothers the head of security at the was the 0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:58.399 Glasgow Greens. Then I can get into any gig. I said, 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:02.960 your kid, yeah, let's school. And indeed we went and 0:43:03.040 --> 0:43:05.960 his brother would open the door and we we got 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:10.640 to see the Stones come through, Bob Marley came through, 0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:18.400 you name it, um Zeppelin, the Who. And then eventually 0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:20.439 his brother took quite a shaming to me. He said, 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:24.520 you're really into this. I tell you what. Um, sometimes 0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:26.560 we need a few kids to run out and get 0:43:26.600 --> 0:43:29.399 beer and cigarettes and all this for the bands, and 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:33.000 you know, like a runner, you know, come up and 0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:37.120 you can do so. We then got to see sound 0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:39.520 checks and we got to watch on the side. We 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:42.040 were just just kids and my There's there's a lot 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.920 of stories that came from that, but the one I 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:48.160 like telling the best is that the band that I 0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:50.000 loved at that moment, I really loved them as a 0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:53.040 band called Mott the Hoople. I know you you. I 0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:56.160 think they're spoken to Ian and they were my band. 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:58.800 And he said, well, you know, Thursday night, Mott the 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.520 Hoople come up after school. I didn't even he didn't 0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:04.360 even go to school. I ran up. I remember getting 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:08.239 the bus into town and the head of the road 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:11.799 cruise said, no, not the Hoople aren't gonna sound check. Uh, 0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:13.840 they're doing Top of the Pops. They're not doing a 0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:18.320 sound check. Um, go over there and help the support band, 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:22.240 help the drummer. And I said, who's the support band? 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.080 And he shrugged and went, I don't know. A band 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:32.600 called Queen. And so I remember clearly being on the 0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:35.080 stage and then it just before Queen had come through 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:38.560 with seven seas Awry, Freddie was already in the suit, 0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:42.280 the black and white suit. I already knew on hearing 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:48.040 the guitar, what what is this? And so I stood 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:52.359 by that night and watched Queen Blowmat the Hoople off 0:44:52.400 --> 0:44:55.560 the stage like like there was no stage, that's just 0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:59.359 one and ignored. But in some ways it was like 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:03.600 this is getting to your question. And someone was like 0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:07.480 it was amazing education. Did I look at Freddie Mercury 0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:09.719 or David Bowie and think I could do that? Not 0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:13.120 at all. Did I look at that world and think 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:17.040 I've got to get involved with that world somehow? Yes 0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:19.000 I did. I would have been happy to be in 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:20.480 a roadie. I would have been happy to be in 0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:22.680 a tour manager. I've been happy to being a manager. 0:45:23.440 --> 0:45:27.480 And um, it didn't dawn on me someone with a stutter, 0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:31.120 a starmer who was afraid to stand up in reading class. 0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:33.880 Why would you throw yourself in at the front plane 0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:38.160 and make an absolute laughing stock yourself. No, that wasn't 0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:43.000 on the agenda. Okay, I've never been to Scotland. Actually 0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:47.400 is Scotland? I mean it's not wouldn't be identical to 0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:50.759 Kenna the United States, but some countries, even though they 0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:55.120 bud each other, it's like having a glass wall and 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:59.000 you look at the other side. Was Scotland fluid with 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:01.640 London and UK saying oh yeah, I know, to mere 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:03.719 Chest or wherever it was that like a big leap. 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:07.880 Well again, it's funny enough it was. It was a 0:46:07.880 --> 0:46:10.600 big leap. London was a hell of a leap, you know. 0:46:10.719 --> 0:46:13.960 And of course not so much in Scotland, but you 0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:16.960 became aware as you get older of a class system 0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:23.719 now already explained to you that this is a phenomenal figure. Um, 0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:29.400 we were from manual workers. The percentage of people in 0:46:29.480 --> 0:46:33.319 Glasgow who went to university that came from parents who 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:37.520 were manual workers is something like not point three percent. 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.239 So there was this feeling of oh, we just don't 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:44.000 do that stuff. That's the class system, that's the way 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:47.120 all above us. We're gonna have to find some other hustle. 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:52.799 And so there was we we you know, and then 0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:56.520 people with those plumbing accents and Eaton and Oxford and 0:46:56.600 --> 0:47:02.200 Cambridge and all of that stuff that could have been Mars. However, 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:08.279 there was a kinship with people in Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham 0:47:08.360 --> 0:47:11.080 who who were all in the same kind of industries. 0:47:11.600 --> 0:47:15.359 There was a kinship there. But the biggest thing, you know, 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:19.200 transformative events in my life, one of the greatest things. 0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:24.800 People don't do it anymore. We discovered at the age 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:29.799 of fourteen this thing called hitchhiking, where if you went 0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:34.400 down to the motorway and stuck out your thumb you 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:38.439 could go on some kind of adventure. And indeed both 0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:41.600 Charlie and I started to do that quite a lot. 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:44.160 Initially it was hit shaking too. There must have been 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:46.960 a year when the local venues in Glasgow we're getting 0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:50.040 re refurbished or something. So the bands we wanted to 0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:54.319 see where coming north that was stopping at Newcastle. Let's 0:47:54.360 --> 0:47:57.960 hit shake down to Newcastle and see aggy pop and 0:47:58.000 --> 0:48:01.480 we would hitch shakedown I mean lesson two hundred miles. 0:48:01.480 --> 0:48:04.279 But of course when you got there sometimes you didn't 0:48:04.280 --> 0:48:07.200 even see the gig, but you met someone that became friends, 0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:12.200 a whole other adventure. It it's um. It was almost 0:48:12.239 --> 0:48:14.600 like for a lot of people the world ends at 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:17.600 the bottom of your street, but for us, the world 0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:20.960 began at the bottom of our street. And I remember 0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:26.240 getting this is quite cute a letter from a friend 0:48:26.320 --> 0:48:29.759 who had moved to London, and he said, there's this 0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:33.480 thing called punk rock, the Sex Pistols, and it plays 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:35.920 every week. You've got to get down and see this 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:40.279 hitch hikedown. You can stay with me. Now, what year 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:43.479 woul dat have been? We already had were already sort 0:48:43.480 --> 0:48:47.480 of tuning into the ramons Paris Smith's first album. We 0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:50.120 knew about this punk thing, but up until then it 0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:52.680 was a New York thing. New York that was of 0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:56.759 course prior, but this English punk thing, the Stranglers. We 0:48:56.840 --> 0:49:00.279 heard John Peele was starting to play the Stranglers and 0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:07.400 we could really feel somehow the gates were opening something else. 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:10.879 So Charlie and I hitch hiked down all the way 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:14.879 to London and we started to see these bands at 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:20.600 the Marquee and and hoping anchor Elvis Crystello playing UM 0:49:21.000 --> 0:49:24.680 and Enemy was starting to rate about this stuff. And 0:49:26.000 --> 0:49:27.799 I remember, after going, I think I want to see 0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:30.759 Elvis Corstello in It was a tiny pub and it 0:49:30.840 --> 0:49:33.840 was it was electrifying, you know, he was just so wired. 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:36.520 The band was so wired. And then on the way 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:40.040 back it was the first ever festival I want Bob 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:43.880 Dylan was playing in Black Bush at the Clapton and 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:48.360 with the greatest respect, I couldn't relate to it anymore. 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:52.960 After seeing Elvis Costello pumped up and playing those I 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:56.080 just we that's where it is. After seeing the Stranglers, 0:49:56.560 --> 0:50:00.200 that's where it is. Um it's really m And of 0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:03.960 course before we knew it, this um let's call it 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:09.399 the punk Revolution had cutlet wildfire through the UK and 0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:14.840 for the first time. It really was the the lunatics 0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:17.920 had taken over the asylum in a way that I 0:50:17.920 --> 0:50:21.080 could never imagine before. Before we knew it, kids like 0:50:21.200 --> 0:50:25.240 us were starting bands. Kids like us, we're starting fashion labels, 0:50:25.440 --> 0:50:31.480 kids like us were making documentary, starting fanzines. Suddenly it 0:50:31.560 --> 0:50:38.920 felt like m It felt like the shackles were off. 0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:41.520 It didn't matter what school you went to. It didn't 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:44.360 matter if you had a rich daddy, it didn't matter 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:48.799 if if you had a manager in London. And the 0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:53.000 liberation of all that set certainly set me on course, 0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:55.080 and people are my A lot of artists from my 0:50:55.200 --> 0:50:59.279 generation set us on course to you know, still to 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:05.680 where we are today. Okay, it's unbelievably hard to make 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:10.919 it talented, is it? Most fifty percent? So needless to say, 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:15.120 you and Charlie made it. Who was the driving force? 0:51:15.719 --> 0:51:19.399 Was that you? Was it? Charlie was a third party? 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:22.760 Did you ever waiver say Okay, we've seen the future, 0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:31.160 We're gonna go, We're gonna get there. I mean, you 0:51:31.160 --> 0:51:34.640 could say it's all about music, and certainly Charlie plays 0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:36.880 the music. But I've got to give great credit also 0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:39.920 to the guys in the band Michael McNeil and keyboards. 0:51:40.000 --> 0:51:43.920 Denck Forbes was really a guitar player who played basslines 0:51:43.960 --> 0:51:47.839 as well as a guitar. The everyone was chipping in, 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:51.840 but as you know, there needs to be a vision 0:51:51.960 --> 0:51:54.359 of a writing. There needs to be a vision. What 0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:56.960 kind of band are we going to be? What's the 0:51:57.040 --> 0:52:00.600 ethics gonna be, what's the ideal is gonna be? Was 0:52:00.719 --> 0:52:04.120 the looks gonna be, Who's the producer we're gonna work with, 0:52:04.400 --> 0:52:09.239 who's the artwork? It was me and it still is me, 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:15.520 and um, Charlie's absolutely cool with that. I mean, on 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:17.880 top of the fact that I write lyrics and melodies. 0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:22.719 But it goes back to this thing and I just 0:52:22.760 --> 0:52:24.960 didn't want anything else in my life. I mean, in 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:26.760 those young years, I have to see now, I really 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:29.680 regret it. I was horrible with the girl friends and 0:52:29.680 --> 0:52:32.000 and and the wives and all when they when anyone came, 0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:36.560 when anything that caused work to stop. I was an 0:52:36.560 --> 0:52:40.920 anti social because I was just so into it. Um 0:52:41.080 --> 0:52:46.000 And I'm still so into it. Um. But I I 0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:50.680 I kind of well if if the people who knew 0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:53.360 me around and they say that when I whenever I 0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:56.840 turned up with my demo, cassette. Listen to this, this 0:52:56.920 --> 0:52:59.120 is what what we're gonna do. There was all there 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:01.680 was always some kind of plan there, There was always 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:04.560 some kind of vision there. Um. I don't know how 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:07.200 I was able to do that. I don't know, you know, 0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:10.239 because there was no there was no rock school, there 0:53:10.280 --> 0:53:11.920 was no there was no you couldn't go along to 0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:14.520 the guy along the road whose uncle was in a 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:17.200 band and could show you how to do There was nothing. 0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:24.040 So it was all on and sheer instinct. Um, but 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:29.320 I am. It's amazing thing. On Sunday there we played 0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:32.960 a gig in France and this time there was a 0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:38.400 lot of eighties bands playing playing there and names you'll know, Madness, 0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:43.480 the undertones um oh m D. And the amazing thing 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:46.279 was you talking to those guys. They all went to 0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:50.239 school together. Now, I'm not sure what other industries where 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:53.640 I guess it doesn't happen now. Bands really even happen now, 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:56.759 But they all went to school together. Now, I'm not 0:53:56.840 --> 0:54:00.319 even sure what other industries that ever happened. I mean, 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:03.200 of course we know about Bill Gates and you know 0:54:03.280 --> 0:54:09.120 the how Microsoft began and a rather Apple and and 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:12.799 those guys they were, but it is amazing. I mean, 0:54:12.800 --> 0:54:14.600 of course that goes back to the ly Beatles and 0:54:14.640 --> 0:54:19.840 the Rolling Stones and the Who and all of those bands. 0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:22.960 It was really it was a school thing and everyone 0:54:23.040 --> 0:54:27.560 has their part to play and it um fits together 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:32.360 to a point where it stops spitting together. Okay. You 0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:35.360 know when bands get together and they start to rehearse, 0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:38.800 and it's probably you. There's always someone say okay, we 0:54:38.920 --> 0:54:41.160 gotta get gigs, we gotta get an age, and we 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:46.279 gotta get a manager. How did that all come together? Well, 0:54:46.320 --> 0:54:49.000 I remember, you know people talk about, you know, in 0:54:49.040 --> 0:54:51.760 the early days was also thing of you know, selling 0:54:51.760 --> 0:54:55.040 out and you know you're treating this like it's a business. 0:54:55.120 --> 0:54:57.799 I'd be like, what are you talking about? It is 0:54:57.840 --> 0:55:03.200 a business? For example, business skilled business, lesson one or 0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:06.360 first over a gig playing in a pub in Glasgow 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:09.239 and we couldn't believe we're even getting the gig, but 0:55:09.360 --> 0:55:11.600 the owner gave us the gig a Monday night that 0:55:11.719 --> 0:55:16.520 would be otherwise empty. We filled it with our friends 0:55:17.760 --> 0:55:23.960 and I went down a storm and you know, we 0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:28.640 looked around. We get paid fifteen pounds. Basically it went 0:55:28.760 --> 0:55:31.479 something like it costs about five pounds to rent the van, 0:55:32.120 --> 0:55:36.960 five pounds to rent the p a, five pounds to 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.000 get a couple of guys to help us, a driver 0:55:39.160 --> 0:55:44.120 or whatever. Basically, it costs us twenty quid to put 0:55:44.160 --> 0:55:47.120 the gig on and we got paid fifteen. So we 0:55:47.120 --> 0:55:51.000 were bankrupt on the first night. That was us. Now, 0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:56.680 as soon as the gig finished, I just thought, how 0:55:56.719 --> 0:55:58.600 are we going to get to the next gig? You know, 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:01.920 we're five we're five it down. How is this going 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:06.719 to ever work? So I remember going upstairs and I 0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:09.160 got I got sent upstairs. He was upstairs the office 0:56:09.200 --> 0:56:13.399 to challenge him. It's pretty funny. It's a little Greek guy. 0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:17.439 And I said, listen. He said, you bands great, come back, 0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:19.960 you can play every Monday. I said, no, you this 0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:23.080 won't work. We're bankrupt. What are you talking about, I explained, 0:56:23.080 --> 0:56:26.000 and said, you have to pay us more more money. No, no, no, 0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:27.719 I'm not paying what I said. You have to pay 0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:30.160 us more. We'll fill This place would've been empty, and 0:56:30.239 --> 0:56:33.120 I've been here on Monday nights empty. You have to 0:56:33.239 --> 0:56:37.439 pay us more. We can't make it work. Finally he said, 0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:41.880 all right. It was a steakhouse that the seller was 0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:44.719 the music upstairs and we're reading steak and stuff. He said, 0:56:44.719 --> 0:56:47.239 I'll do you a deal. I'll give you twenty five 0:56:47.239 --> 0:56:52.280 pounds if you turn down. And I said, we can't 0:56:52.280 --> 0:56:55.160 turn down. We can't turn down. People have to feel it. 0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:58.400 We can't turn down. It's too loud. I said, what 0:56:58.520 --> 0:57:01.280 makes you say it's too loud? You're up, Pierre, He said, 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:09.400 the peas are bouncing off the plate. He said, people 0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:12.840 are complaining up here, the plates are rattling. Well, we 0:57:12.960 --> 0:57:15.719 played there for the next six months and every time 0:57:15.760 --> 0:57:18.120 I'd go back and hit him up for more because 0:57:18.200 --> 0:57:20.920 we were then wanting to spread, going playing Aberdeen, going 0:57:21.000 --> 0:57:25.080 playing Dundee, going playing, studdling, and it became a real lesson. 0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:29.280 It became a real you know, a real uh lesson. 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:33.000 It was. It was already a company. And that's a 0:57:33.080 --> 0:57:37.560 dirty secret, okay. The dream of a band is to 0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:41.200 get a record deal. So you had a manager. It 0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:43.400 was associated with the airs. Do you get a record deal? 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:46.640 How did that all come together? Well, that was an 0:57:46.680 --> 0:57:53.520 amazing thing. Um Our parents, they were great. Our parents 0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:56.600 chipped in to give us a hundred pounds to go 0:57:56.640 --> 0:57:59.960 into a studio in Glasgow to make a demo type 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:04.720 um about five or six songs, and I had a 0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:06.880 friend in the local record shop who said, I can 0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:08.760 get you the name of all the and our guys. 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:10.520 We didn't really we didn't know what in our guys. 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:12.160 We we came in you but he said, no, you 0:58:12.280 --> 0:58:14.439 just take it down. You give him your tape. He'll 0:58:14.480 --> 0:58:16.560 give it a listen. You know. We were so green, 0:58:17.280 --> 0:58:19.640 but at least being he worked in the record store, 0:58:19.720 --> 0:58:22.560 he was the cool guy. He gave us a name, 0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:27.800 you know, Island Records and whoever the CBS so we had. 0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:32.040 I had checked down with my friend David Henderson. Well 0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:34.640 go around there again. Can we see that in our guy? No, 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:37.760 are you crazy? You're an appointment? No, no, you've what 0:58:37.840 --> 0:58:41.960 are you crazy? So um usually be girls at the 0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:43.680 front desk, you know, and we would say, oh, that's 0:58:43.720 --> 0:58:48.280 a drug, you know, and maybe you'd like a cassette 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:51.760 and bob. It took me two weeks to hitchhake home. 0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:55.000 But believe it or not, but tell you my hedgehake home. 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:59.360 A couple of people had called that the girls had 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:02.920 been playing the music and the recess usually you know, 0:59:03.040 --> 0:59:06.280 the interns and the receptionists and stuff. They and our 0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:09.440 guys walking through on the way to lunch. What's that 0:59:09.560 --> 0:59:13.440 song called? Who's this? As? These Glasgow guys anyway? Big time? 0:59:13.640 --> 0:59:17.760 We had no manager. Obviously by time I had hedgehacked home. 0:59:18.360 --> 0:59:20.440 My mom said, oh, a couple of guys have called 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:23.760 for you, And I said, well, who was it? Oh, 0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:26.280 I don't know. I didn't have a pen at the time. 0:59:26.840 --> 0:59:29.680 I was making your dad's dinner, right and I would say, well, 0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:35.640 was it CBS? No, I don't think that was it? 0:59:35.760 --> 0:59:39.520 Was it? E M I No, that sounds familiar a 0:59:39.960 --> 0:59:43.400 christ you know. She said, if they like you, they'll 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:48.600 call back. Well they did, and don't ask me where 0:59:48.640 --> 0:59:54.320 we got the hootspa for this. But two or three 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:56.280 called back and they said, listen, we want to bring 0:59:56.320 --> 1:00:01.040 you down play a gig in London, do a showcase. Uh, 1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:03.040 we'll let the rest of the people in the company 1:00:03.080 --> 1:00:08.320 see now. To hear those words was so you know, 1:00:08.360 --> 1:00:10.600 people would have died. The local bands where we were 1:00:10.760 --> 1:00:12.520 would have died to hear the words. To every one 1:00:12.560 --> 1:00:14.280 of them. I said, no, no, no, no, you've got 1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:17.720 to come up here. What At that time people didn't 1:00:17.760 --> 1:00:20.560 travel the provinces. You had to go to London that's 1:00:20.560 --> 1:00:22.960 why a lot of Scottish bands failed. That we go 1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:25.920 to London sudden they would be broke and then they 1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:28.680 would fall out. They'd be living in a squad. I 1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:30.800 knew all that. I said, now you've got to come 1:00:30.880 --> 1:00:34.439 up here. Now we don't, We're not gonna. I said, well, 1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:36.880 you know, we play up here. I knew. We played 1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:39.240 every Sunday night in a place called the Mars Bar. 1:00:40.240 --> 1:00:42.880 And by that time, not only were we getting good, 1:00:43.720 --> 1:00:45.800 people would come and see it. They knew every word. 1:00:45.880 --> 1:00:48.520 So when they in our guys eventually made their way 1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:52.280 up and they did, it was like every song was 1:00:52.320 --> 1:00:55.520 a hit because the audiences knew all the choruses and 1:00:55.520 --> 1:00:58.880 and we had worked it out really so well. You know, 1:00:58.920 --> 1:01:00.640 we had our own little light show. I mean it 1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:03.400 was I'm talking about a tiny pub, but in our 1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:07.360 mind it was Madison Square Garden, and we already knew 1:01:07.800 --> 1:01:09.560 and you're gonna laugh at this, the I and he 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:12.960 we already knew the label we wanted. We wanted to 1:01:13.000 --> 1:01:19.600 be an arista why lou Reid, Patty Smith, iggy Pop, 1:01:20.080 --> 1:01:22.320 and it was an American and our guy there, you 1:01:22.320 --> 1:01:25.600 you may be known, guy called Ben Edmonds who who 1:01:26.640 --> 1:01:30.720 I really liked us, so we eventually saying and we thought, God, 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:33.440 we're in the coolest label out. I remember going down 1:01:33.720 --> 1:01:38.320 to the Plush Offices and Marble Arts thinking home of 1:01:38.400 --> 1:01:43.040 lou Reid, Patty Smith, Iggy Pop. They only have one 1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:47.880 huge portrait on the wall. When we walked in Barry Manilow, 1:01:50.720 --> 1:01:54.439 I thought, what is this and then I realized that's 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:57.680 Botty that's paying for all of this, because none of 1:01:57.680 --> 1:02:02.000 the other three were. Let's be honest, um, but yeah, 1:02:02.080 --> 1:02:04.960 that was It was a dream to get a record deal. 1:02:05.040 --> 1:02:08.240 It was a dream too for someone who hung out 1:02:08.280 --> 1:02:10.840 and record stores all my life. To the first day 1:02:10.880 --> 1:02:12.880 when you see your single in the window of the 1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:18.360 store and I can't tell you that thrill of that, 1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:21.919 it's something that will never leave me. Okay, Now, all 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:25.200 those early albums didn't come out in America. The first 1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:28.800 thing we saw was New Gold Dream, which was on 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:32.040 A and M Virgin through A and M. It was 1:02:32.080 --> 1:02:34.400 hard to follow what went on before, even though all 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:36.560 the press SAIDs I mean, so what was going on 1:02:36.640 --> 1:02:41.040 when you run Arista? Well, unfortunately not a lot in 1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:44.640 terms of sales. I mean, what happened was there was 1:02:44.920 --> 1:02:47.320 there was always a couple of says to simple means. 1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:51.160 I mean, we really started out wanting to be an 1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:53.800 art rock band for for lack of a better term, 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:56.120 and indeed we still do, to be honest with you, 1:02:57.040 --> 1:03:00.360 but we couldn't help ourselves in the sense it there 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:04.880 was always a few pop tunes in there that would 1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:07.880 make us different from Magazine, that would make us different 1:03:07.920 --> 1:03:10.920 from Wire, um, that would make us different from the 1:03:10.960 --> 1:03:16.360 early ultro box um. But there was always this what 1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:19.520 is it gonna be? And our first album came out 1:03:19.640 --> 1:03:22.400 and based on based on the live work. I mean 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:29.320 even before even before we played in England, our album 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:32.760 was out and in the chart just in Scottish sales alone. 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:36.440 But that was the life thing. The record came Now 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:40.760 radio weren't up for it. Um. We didn't like it either. 1:03:41.000 --> 1:03:44.200 The debut album I remember thinking, I mean, it was 1:03:44.240 --> 1:03:48.640 a great experience. We worked with legendary producer John Leckey 1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:51.800 and I remember when you think about this, well, but 1:03:51.920 --> 1:03:57.160 John in his well, it was a wisdom. Um. We 1:03:57.320 --> 1:04:03.200 recorded in this residential place with the Rolling Stones mobile 1:04:03.360 --> 1:04:06.080 truck and John thought we'll do that. That was a 1:04:06.120 --> 1:04:08.640 thrill to be inside the Rolling Stones mobile truck. But 1:04:09.040 --> 1:04:11.320 we'll save the budget and I'll take you to Abbey 1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:14.600 Road for ten days. Now. I guess he was thinking 1:04:14.600 --> 1:04:18.120 what an education that will be, and it certainly was, 1:04:18.200 --> 1:04:20.360 because as soon as we went into an Abbey Road 1:04:20.880 --> 1:04:25.240 I completely froze the magnitude of the whole the magnitude. 1:04:25.280 --> 1:04:28.320 I thought, who you know that you're walking past? Where 1:04:28.360 --> 1:04:31.320 you know the Beatles plugged in here and we're pink 1:04:31.320 --> 1:04:34.120 Floyd did? I thought, who the hell needs us? It 1:04:34.320 --> 1:04:37.160 just we should have stayed in Glasgow and stayed in 1:04:37.160 --> 1:04:39.760 the little studio and worked on a much raw sound. 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:41.880 I mean not all the guys thought that. Some of 1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:45.320 the other guys thought this is great, but I it 1:04:45.440 --> 1:04:48.200 was like being a rookie and you know you're already 1:04:48.280 --> 1:04:51.880 playing the World Series or something. You haven't even up 1:04:51.960 --> 1:04:54.320 until then. We've only been in a studio in Glasgow 1:04:54.360 --> 1:04:56.880 for one hour. I mean it was like, what is this? 1:04:57.560 --> 1:05:00.080 So when the records were making the record, thank so 1:05:00.160 --> 1:05:05.120 the engineers and the production, I realized, now it sounded good. 1:05:05.480 --> 1:05:11.240 What has sounded? It sounded professional, but it was hollow. 1:05:11.640 --> 1:05:15.600 It didn't have the vibe and I we weren't. I was. 1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:17.840 I seen me the only one with the problem, but 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:21.680 it just didn't make me feel as the demos were feeling. 1:05:21.680 --> 1:05:24.320 So it was the first case of demo whitis. We 1:05:24.360 --> 1:05:27.320 should have just worked on the demos, so we we 1:05:27.320 --> 1:05:31.840 didn't like the first record, but we always kept this 1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:35.000 thing of playing live, and even though we weren't getting 1:05:35.120 --> 1:05:37.240 radio play, we would go round and round, and at 1:05:37.280 --> 1:05:39.160 first there'd be two men and a dog, and then 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.080 you go back a month later and there'd be ten 1:05:41.120 --> 1:05:45.160 men and a dog, and then promoters were starting to say, listen, 1:05:47.240 --> 1:05:50.440 I haven't seen that reaction that you got tonight. So 1:05:50.480 --> 1:05:52.560 we always kept alife then going, even though the first 1:05:52.560 --> 1:05:55.680 two or three records. But by the third record, and 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:57.920 of course now this is insane, you wouldn't even get 1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:00.840 the chance to make one reagon. Now it the third record, 1:06:01.400 --> 1:06:03.240 we were in a heck of a lot of debt 1:06:04.040 --> 1:06:08.880 um and looked like we're gonna get dropped, and who 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:12.200 knows what was going to be. But just at that moment, 1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:18.600 this new romantic then came a lot where anyone that 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:21.560 had a synthesizer and a bit of a disco beat 1:06:22.560 --> 1:06:25.520 um in our guys, we're up for you know. Duran 1:06:25.600 --> 1:06:29.240 Duran we're coming out Spando Ballet, We're coming out these 1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:34.280 the dance charts and billboard. Um. And we had a 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:37.880 couple of songs that started to feature in that. And 1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:41.680 I have to say by that time our favorite record 1:06:41.880 --> 1:06:45.080 label had become Virgin. That's so much great stuff from 1:06:45.200 --> 1:06:51.520 sex Pistols, xtc um, so on and so forth. Um, 1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:55.160 Virgin started to kind of put out the feelers, well, 1:06:55.200 --> 1:07:01.080 if you get dropped, we're here. And we didn't get dropped. 1:07:01.160 --> 1:07:05.160 To be honest, we had to buy ourselves out. Um. 1:07:05.320 --> 1:07:08.040 That was a bit painful, but Virgin picked us up 1:07:08.160 --> 1:07:11.960 and they were the greatest label to be with, and 1:07:12.000 --> 1:07:15.800 then threw them eventually in Them, which was another great 1:07:15.960 --> 1:07:18.600 grit grit label to be with. But the thing with 1:07:18.800 --> 1:07:22.280 Simple Minds in Europe, UK and States, it was always 1:07:22.280 --> 1:07:25.080 out of kilter because as you you said, those for 1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:30.800 three records were released in America. So who bought you 1:07:30.840 --> 1:07:35.200 out of areas to yourselves or Virgin version brought us out? 1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:39.280 The the the bought us out I think for thirty 1:07:39.320 --> 1:07:45.160 five grand and the first record we did with them, 1:07:45.400 --> 1:07:50.320 Clear the Debts, and from then on in the next 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:54.120 four or five or number one albums, Okay, so as 1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:57.680 I say, from an American perspective, new Gold dream comes 1:07:57.720 --> 1:08:02.240 out comes out on Gold. Ye know, it really gotta push. 1:08:02.640 --> 1:08:06.480 What was the perspective from your end? It was exciting. 1:08:06.520 --> 1:08:10.120 I mean it's still you know, it gotta push college radio. 1:08:10.840 --> 1:08:14.720 Great friends of hers and especially the younger kids that 1:08:14.840 --> 1:08:20.040 ain't Karen Globear. Jeff Gold was a kid then when 1:08:20.120 --> 1:08:24.759 Isaac's people like that on our side, um starting to push. 1:08:24.840 --> 1:08:28.439 But even with that, Bob, it didn't make a dent 1:08:28.840 --> 1:08:32.720 like it did everywhere else, I mean American Canada and 1:08:32.760 --> 1:08:37.040 make sure we got played there and started to started 1:08:37.040 --> 1:08:40.759 to feel like what we're getting places, you know, selling 1:08:40.760 --> 1:08:45.880 out the Massy Hall, and and and Australia. We were 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:49.479 having hits, it seemed everywhere else. Let's just say we 1:08:49.479 --> 1:08:52.040 were at the door. We were at the door of 1:08:52.120 --> 1:08:55.960 going into the bigger league. Of course, there was this 1:08:56.000 --> 1:08:58.920 thing just about to come over the horizon called them TV, 1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:10.040 but no one knew about that. Then. Okay, how do 1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:13.200 you end up working with Steve will lily White? What's 1:09:13.200 --> 1:09:16.639 that experience like? And how do you end up with Waterfront? Well? 1:09:16.640 --> 1:09:19.719 That was I mean Steve at that time, that really 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:23.880 was not very many um not going to see young 1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:29.280 ish rock producers and Steve he had made a bit 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:34.080 of a name for himself, especially with Peter Gabriel's album, 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:37.519 that Third Album which blew all our minds. But then 1:09:37.600 --> 1:09:41.840 of course the YouTube records, Big Country. There was a 1:09:41.840 --> 1:09:44.080 point where it just seems Steve was the only guy 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:48.280 everyone was using drum machines. There was a point where 1:09:48.280 --> 1:09:50.240 it just seemed like Steve was the only guy that 1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:55.120 could make a rock record in the UK. M that's 1:09:55.120 --> 1:09:57.759 not quite true, but that's how it seemed. He everything 1:09:57.800 --> 1:10:05.400 he from XTC, you to UM so it was always 1:10:05.439 --> 1:10:08.320 imminent and then we ended up playing well, we ended 1:10:08.400 --> 1:10:11.320 up playing a few festivals. But this time when I 1:10:11.320 --> 1:10:14.240 said we're going through the big league, same same life, 1:10:14.720 --> 1:10:18.120 we started to get asked to beyond some of the 1:10:18.160 --> 1:10:21.679 bigger festivals in Germany, Holland, Belgium, and then you would 1:10:21.720 --> 1:10:24.040 get to meet really get to meet some of your 1:10:24.720 --> 1:10:28.320 contemporaries and people would hang out. One of the festivals, 1:10:28.360 --> 1:10:31.760 it was a two day festival where we finally caught 1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:34.920 up with you too, and Steve was there with them 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:38.320 the first day. UM, I gotta get this right. They 1:10:38.360 --> 1:10:41.160 went on before us and the second day we went 1:10:41.200 --> 1:10:47.560 on before them, and that was a heck of an experience. 1:10:47.600 --> 1:10:50.720 They had just come back from the States with a 1:10:50.760 --> 1:10:55.920 gold album with War and to say they were main 1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:58.360 blowing was I mean, there were I could I couldn't 1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:00.439 work out whether the noise were coming for it only 1:11:00.479 --> 1:11:02.880 looked like when you see now the huge show. Back then, 1:11:02.920 --> 1:11:06.280 it looked like there was just a vox ump um 1:11:06.640 --> 1:11:12.360 and they were mind blowingly good. Um so good. In fact, 1:11:12.400 --> 1:11:17.320 I remember someone said to me recently, Um, did you 1:11:18.240 --> 1:11:20.160 did you think then they would become the biggest band 1:11:20.240 --> 1:11:22.800 in the world. I said, well, I knew they would 1:11:22.840 --> 1:11:25.439 become the biggest band in the world. And she said, 1:11:25.600 --> 1:11:27.840 how did you know? And I said, because Bono told 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:32.040 me they would. Um with that level of self assuredness 1:11:32.080 --> 1:11:35.600 and confidence. Um. But anyway, Steve was there, He's a 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:40.280 charming guy, had made great, great records, and we were 1:11:40.840 --> 1:11:43.840 we were wanting to be for sound up. Were brought 1:11:43.840 --> 1:11:47.519 in a much heavier drama and it all seemed to 1:11:47.600 --> 1:11:51.080 be It all seemed to be right. So what was 1:11:51.120 --> 1:11:54.160 the experience like in how you know my favorite song 1:11:54.200 --> 1:11:57.000 from that album's Waterfront? How did that come together? But 1:11:57.120 --> 1:11:58.960 that's a song that was written. Really, I mean it's 1:11:59.000 --> 1:12:00.960 it's it's even hard to cause it's not a song 1:12:01.000 --> 1:12:08.680 in a traditional sense, but um lyrically, it's about the 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:12.200 rebirth of our city, or city Glasgow, as many cities, 1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:16.400 originally began as a fishing village and it goes through, 1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:19.840 it grows, the industrial age comes, the city grows, it 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:25.559 gets rich, the river dies all that pollution. Then the 1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:29.639 industrial age ends. There's rust everywhere, there's no more work. 1:12:30.240 --> 1:12:33.600 Guess what, the salmon's back now. I'm not saying the 1:12:33.640 --> 1:12:36.640 whole city could live in salmon, Bob, but there was 1:12:36.760 --> 1:12:42.800 something in this about renew, rebirth. Take me to the river. Um. 1:12:44.160 --> 1:12:46.320 When I got the music. Usually the way it works, 1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:50.679 as I get the music, and nine times out of ten, 1:12:50.720 --> 1:12:53.639 I'm blown away with it and I can just hear 1:12:53.640 --> 1:12:55.960 an atmosphere in it. I see a picture in it, 1:12:56.040 --> 1:12:58.240 and usually it's in sync with some words I've been 1:12:58.240 --> 1:13:02.719 thinking about or something. And the first time we played 1:13:02.760 --> 1:13:06.479 that song was at a festival and the song hadn't 1:13:06.520 --> 1:13:09.080 even a song. We hadn't even finished right in the song, 1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:12.160 but sonically it was so strong we thought we could 1:13:12.160 --> 1:13:15.240 just start with this as I kno with and see 1:13:15.240 --> 1:13:19.519 where the audience goes with it, and well they went mental. 1:13:20.400 --> 1:13:24.760 So we knew we were onto something and Steve brought 1:13:24.800 --> 1:13:26.880 a great, great focus to it. But it was the 1:13:26.920 --> 1:13:30.639 base players melody Derek Forbes. I've got to say that. Now, 1:13:30.640 --> 1:13:34.200 what else? You'll be on the phone to me tomorrow. Okay, 1:13:34.760 --> 1:13:38.439 So I have you right here. There's a lot been 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:42.800 written about tell me the story of Keith Forcey. Don't 1:13:42.800 --> 1:13:45.600 you forget about me? How it happened? Did you like 1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:47.640 it at the time? Did you not want to do it? 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:50.200 Word was that you resented? That was a hit? What 1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:54.720 was going on? And what are your feelings about it today? Well, 1:13:54.720 --> 1:13:58.360 everything you said there is true. There was, there was. 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:01.439 I can tell you our story, of course, I'll tell 1:14:01.479 --> 1:14:04.160 you our story. I now keep hearing everyone else's story, 1:14:04.160 --> 1:14:05.960 and I think I don't think that's true. You know, 1:14:06.000 --> 1:14:08.799 I keep hearing that it was offered to this person, 1:14:08.880 --> 1:14:12.559 and offered to that person, and offer this person. It 1:14:12.640 --> 1:14:15.559 may well have been, but I'm maintained if it was 1:14:15.640 --> 1:14:18.600 offered to them, it was offered while we were refusing 1:14:19.240 --> 1:14:24.080 and Deli dallow and you might say the whole approach 1:14:24.240 --> 1:14:28.280 was wrong. We you know, we're all we're young, we 1:14:28.400 --> 1:14:30.840 were brattish. We thought, why the heck would we do 1:14:31.000 --> 1:14:34.160 someone else's song, especially when we had just written this 1:14:34.240 --> 1:14:37.799 thing called Alive and Kicking, which wasn't out yet or recorded, 1:14:37.920 --> 1:14:41.000 but we thought it was the Bee's knees, and we thought, 1:14:41.000 --> 1:14:44.040 why would we do someone else's song? What's this about? Well, 1:14:44.120 --> 1:14:47.800 it turns out that Keith had come to see us play, 1:14:49.120 --> 1:14:51.840 had come backstage. There's a lot of people backstage. I 1:14:51.880 --> 1:14:54.640 didn't get to meet him, but he had given the 1:14:54.640 --> 1:14:57.040 cassette of the song and said, you know, the record 1:14:57.040 --> 1:14:58.519 company is going to be in touch with you soon. 1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:00.360 He had given it to the keyboard player who put 1:15:00.400 --> 1:15:03.320 in his pocket and didn't listen to it for weeks. 1:15:04.160 --> 1:15:06.439 So it was going nowhere, and we started getting this 1:15:07.320 --> 1:15:12.559 these calls UM basically in him, in him, we're kind 1:15:12.560 --> 1:15:15.880 of saying we should have pushed harder with New Gold Dream. 1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:18.960 They saw the success it hid everywhere else. We should 1:15:18.960 --> 1:15:24.040 have pushed harder. Um your next record. And you remember 1:15:24.080 --> 1:15:27.280 the great Charlie Minor. He was on the phone, you 1:15:27.360 --> 1:15:29.080 gotta do this, you gotta do this, this will set 1:15:29.160 --> 1:15:31.040 up your next record. Great. For those who don't know, 1:15:31.080 --> 1:15:35.120 he was one of the greatest promotion guys ever. Um, 1:15:35.200 --> 1:15:37.800 when Charlie got on the phone, it was like, oh, 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:41.160 this is serious. He said, this movie is gonna be great, 1:15:41.880 --> 1:15:44.880 and um, this will this will set you up so good. 1:15:45.400 --> 1:15:47.519 You'll love it and you'll love the song. And I 1:15:47.560 --> 1:15:51.400 said what song? And he said, UM, I thought you 1:15:51.439 --> 1:15:53.639 were I thought we were writing this song. None all 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:55.880 the songs there, they've got the song for the movie. 1:15:55.960 --> 1:15:59.599 It worked with the script. And that doesn't sound good. 1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:03.160 We're our own songs. We'd never the idea of doing 1:16:03.160 --> 1:16:07.479 someone else's song was alien to us. Anyway, we listened 1:16:07.520 --> 1:16:10.519 to the song, and we don't think it's a bad song. 1:16:10.600 --> 1:16:13.639 And I gotta say to you the other day talking 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:15.680 about the how the way songs turned up on the 1:16:15.720 --> 1:16:18.880 internet now that the original demos, I love to listen 1:16:18.920 --> 1:16:23.559 to the the Jerry Rafferty song and how that dispute was. 1:16:24.320 --> 1:16:26.360 What a great thing to hear that. I played that 1:16:26.400 --> 1:16:31.320 track actually about twenty times the demo. Um. Anyway, we 1:16:31.439 --> 1:16:34.679 listened to it and Keith was singing this song don't 1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:37.800 You Forget About Me, which to me sounded much more 1:16:37.880 --> 1:16:40.400 like the Psychedelic Force, who incidentally is a band we 1:16:40.439 --> 1:16:43.639 all liked it didn't sound like a simple main song. 1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:47.960 It didn't sound like a lyric I would write. Um, 1:16:48.160 --> 1:16:54.719 we just couldn't see, you know why. And we really 1:16:54.800 --> 1:16:57.759 dragged our feet. And I'm not sure about this, not sure, 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:01.280 not sure. And the way I remember it is that 1:17:04.240 --> 1:17:09.439 Keith eventually turned up, and the story was, you see, 1:17:09.439 --> 1:17:11.799 I already I know will come to him. I already 1:17:11.800 --> 1:17:13.960 had in my men. I wanted to work with Jimmy Iovine. 1:17:14.439 --> 1:17:17.679 I thought we needed someone really to pushes and writing 1:17:17.760 --> 1:17:21.880 better songs. But Keith turned up, and I see, I 1:17:21.920 --> 1:17:23.599 know you're not going to do the song, but maybe 1:17:23.600 --> 1:17:25.880 we'll work in future, and all that well alone, behold, 1:17:26.040 --> 1:17:29.400 we love Keith. Doesn't so much love his song, but 1:17:29.560 --> 1:17:33.240 loved him. And you know, you hung out a couple 1:17:33.280 --> 1:17:35.840 of days and they happen. Why not just try? He would, 1:17:35.920 --> 1:17:40.080 very he would, very shrewd kind of codjoulders. Let's goin 1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:43.280 for a couple of hours. If it works, who knows, 1:17:43.720 --> 1:17:46.000 If it doesn't work, you get the record company off 1:17:46.040 --> 1:17:51.519 your back. Shrewd. Well, we went in and you know, 1:17:51.600 --> 1:17:55.200 literally was about two hours, and we mocked up the 1:17:55.320 --> 1:17:58.280 start to their song with a he he has and 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:02.599 then we this whole breakdown thing. There was no words 1:18:02.680 --> 1:18:05.880 for that. So I started to sing the corneyst thing 1:18:05.920 --> 1:18:09.080 that came in my mind, La la la la, And 1:18:09.439 --> 1:18:12.240 before we knew it, it was there, and I'll kept 1:18:12.280 --> 1:18:14.160 saying no, no, I got it back. I can't leave 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:17.799 that quota like that. I have to sing meaningful worlds. 1:18:18.640 --> 1:18:23.439 But they weren't having none of it. And isn't it strange? 1:18:23.560 --> 1:18:26.160 You know? It's the way life throws up these things 1:18:26.200 --> 1:18:30.240 that were not You try, you're very hardest, it's something 1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:34.120 it doesn't work, and then something you couldn't care about. 1:18:34.400 --> 1:18:38.920 You just do it and it becomes, you know, kind 1:18:38.960 --> 1:18:42.880 of a song of his generation, and some might even 1:18:42.920 --> 1:18:49.640 say subsequent generations. So how do you feel about it now? Well, 1:18:49.680 --> 1:18:52.600 the first thing I feel is the first thing I 1:18:52.640 --> 1:18:55.920 feel is this is where it's childish to have any 1:18:56.000 --> 1:18:58.160 problems with it. What I feel about it now is 1:18:58.640 --> 1:19:00.439 when we went in that day, we put our heart 1:19:00.479 --> 1:19:03.320 and soul in it. That was the thing, and we 1:19:03.360 --> 1:19:05.760 put our heart and soul in it. Every night we 1:19:05.880 --> 1:19:11.840 played because that song has given the world over so 1:19:11.920 --> 1:19:15.840 much pleasure to people. Do we play it as sound checks? No? 1:19:16.320 --> 1:19:19.920 Do we played at rehearsals. No. Are we grateful for 1:19:20.040 --> 1:19:25.840 everything it brought to us, Yes, but I also think 1:19:25.920 --> 1:19:30.200 we had a problem. Is it's a stupid problem. We felt, God, 1:19:30.240 --> 1:19:31.880 We've got all that success with that thing, and we 1:19:31.920 --> 1:19:34.679 didn't We didn't deserve it. I think there's a feeling 1:19:34.680 --> 1:19:39.160 that we didn't deserve it. Um. Only therapists could work 1:19:39.240 --> 1:19:43.600 that out, Bob, but none of us go to therapy. Okay, 1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:46.600 so how do you end up working with Jimmy Ivy? 1:19:47.160 --> 1:19:51.519 You know, he just seemed again as a fan of music, 1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:55.000 so many great records. His name seemed to be there. 1:19:55.640 --> 1:19:59.040 I mean the obvious obviously born born a run and 1:19:59.080 --> 1:20:05.599 then a Smith's Tom Petty dire straits. Um. I mean 1:20:06.080 --> 1:20:09.280 that's not bad right there, I have induced I have 1:20:09.479 --> 1:20:12.920 his name kept popping up. The one thing I felt 1:20:12.960 --> 1:20:15.800 after working with Steve, which was the record prior to 1:20:15.840 --> 1:20:19.519 working with Jimmy and Bob Clear Mountain. We can't leave 1:20:19.600 --> 1:20:24.639 Bob out in this, um, I felt Steve. The record 1:20:24.720 --> 1:20:27.479 we did with Steve was a game of two halves. 1:20:28.720 --> 1:20:31.759 You know, the first half I think has got great tracks, 1:20:31.840 --> 1:20:35.560 but the second half not so. I mean one of 1:20:35.560 --> 1:20:37.960 the reasons was we were constantly touring, and we would 1:20:37.960 --> 1:20:40.360 take six weeks to do a record and we will 1:20:40.400 --> 1:20:43.240 be bluffing it. But you can only bluff it so far. 1:20:43.640 --> 1:20:46.560 And I thought, we need someone to really put his 1:20:46.760 --> 1:20:49.080 under pressure with the songs. And someone must have told 1:20:49.080 --> 1:20:52.240 me that that was Jimmy's thing, that he really beat 1:20:52.320 --> 1:20:56.640 you up before you got anywhere near the studio. And 1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:59.640 and I was up for that kind of I was 1:20:59.720 --> 1:21:04.880 up for that that kind of challenge. But unfortunately we 1:21:04.960 --> 1:21:09.040 couldn't get Jimmy to bait for the longest time. And 1:21:09.080 --> 1:21:12.440 he tells the story of he had gone down to Australia. 1:21:13.200 --> 1:21:14.880 I think you remember, well, I know, you know he's 1:21:14.920 --> 1:21:18.720 brilliant Colin hey men at work, who you know. I 1:21:18.800 --> 1:21:22.559 also had this kind of freakish success in the States 1:21:23.560 --> 1:21:26.680 um and I think they weren't playing ball with the 1:21:26.680 --> 1:21:29.519 American record Company as I held it, and they wanted 1:21:29.560 --> 1:21:33.240 to send someone down, and Jimmy got the offer. He 1:21:33.280 --> 1:21:35.240 went down. When he got to Australia, he found out 1:21:35.280 --> 1:21:38.760 that those Australians don't take anything from no one. So 1:21:38.880 --> 1:21:41.479 Jimmy told the story of he was making his way 1:21:41.479 --> 1:21:44.400 back to the airport and he was in the taxi 1:21:44.479 --> 1:21:48.040 with a kid Driver, what do you do? And Jimmy, 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:51.360 I'm a record producer. Really, who do you work with? Well? 1:21:51.439 --> 1:21:54.320 I worked with Springsteen and I work with you two 1:21:54.720 --> 1:21:57.640 and blah blah blah. Now we haven't been able to 1:21:57.680 --> 1:22:01.759 get Jimmy on the phone anyway. Taxi driver kids, sister, Jimmie, 1:22:01.840 --> 1:22:06.160 this is my band and he plays on Waterfront and 1:22:06.280 --> 1:22:12.000 Jimmy went, wow, that's that band. Um. And of course 1:22:12.240 --> 1:22:14.400 we met up at the time he was I remember 1:22:14.400 --> 1:22:18.360 going down to the studio he was working with Lawn 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:23.160 Justice and we were so keen, you know, and he said, so, 1:22:23.200 --> 1:22:25.760 what do you got to play me? I should I 1:22:25.800 --> 1:22:28.280 haven't got anything yet, you know, we're just Oh, you 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:31.439 haven't got anything. And he said, well, you know there's 1:22:31.560 --> 1:22:34.040 that song you've got that. Don't you forget about me? 1:22:34.160 --> 1:22:38.080 Song that's on fire. You better have stuff and I said, 1:22:38.080 --> 1:22:40.639 we will have stuff. We we will, We'll have stuff, 1:22:40.680 --> 1:22:43.280 will have good stuff. The bands and forum just now, 1:22:44.200 --> 1:22:47.160 h yeah, I've heard all that before. He said, I've 1:22:47.160 --> 1:22:50.040 heard it all beat before. I'm not going to near 1:22:50.080 --> 1:22:52.479 you until you have the songs that you can play 1:22:52.520 --> 1:22:56.360 me the songs. And I said, okay, I'll be back 1:22:56.640 --> 1:23:01.639 with songs. Um, he said one. I said, about six weeks. 1:23:02.920 --> 1:23:06.679 He said, he said, You're gonna have ten great songs 1:23:06.680 --> 1:23:09.600 in six weeks. I said yeah. He said, are you 1:23:09.680 --> 1:23:11.640 fucking Bob Dylan? I mean, I've been looking for you. 1:23:12.200 --> 1:23:15.240 I've been looking for you all my life. And I thought, 1:23:15.240 --> 1:23:19.639 oh God, I'm in with someone tough here. And that's 1:23:19.640 --> 1:23:25.120 the way it started. And and I have to say, um, 1:23:25.200 --> 1:23:27.360 at the time, Jimmy, we didn't know this because although 1:23:27.400 --> 1:23:30.880 his name was involved in those records, it seemed to 1:23:30.880 --> 1:23:33.800 be the jury was out. What he actually did. I 1:23:33.920 --> 1:23:38.680 later found out, Um, so what he's a vibe merchant, 1:23:38.960 --> 1:23:42.080 or he creates a culture or whatever. Well, all of 1:23:42.120 --> 1:23:46.040 that's hugely important. A Shelley Yakistas does it. It's Bob 1:23:46.080 --> 1:23:49.080 clear Mountain that does it. But I have to see, 1:23:49.840 --> 1:23:54.280 even to this day, I have been, by far has 1:23:54.320 --> 1:23:59.720 been the best motivator, coach, all around good guy I 1:24:00.200 --> 1:24:02.040 came across. And I'm not saying that just now because 1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:05.120 we're best friends. I haven't spoke to Jimmy for gazillions 1:24:05.160 --> 1:24:08.320 of years. But when I look back now, I mean 1:24:08.360 --> 1:24:12.200 what a coach Jimmy was, And and he knew the 1:24:12.280 --> 1:24:16.400 thing he knew was maybe technically he couldn't articulate it, 1:24:16.720 --> 1:24:19.920 but he knew when it felt right. And for me, 1:24:20.240 --> 1:24:24.240 whether it's movies, whether it's music, where there's books, whereas 1:24:24.240 --> 1:24:26.679 people you hang out with, whether it's food you eat, 1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:29.320 it's all about how it feels. It's all about how 1:24:29.320 --> 1:24:33.920 it makes you feel. And God, Jimmy was so great. 1:24:34.320 --> 1:24:36.880 So you had phenomenal success with that album. Why didn't 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:39.360 you work with Jimmy again? Because I think we we 1:24:39.800 --> 1:24:42.840 I think we were good at very few people did 1:24:42.840 --> 1:24:44.360 we work with again. I mean, you get a lot 1:24:44.400 --> 1:24:46.640 of bands that don't get wrong with the producers or 1:24:46.680 --> 1:24:50.040 the resenter producers are, or they see them as something 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:52.719 that's forced on them. Quite often, that's that's the case. 1:24:54.160 --> 1:24:56.519 We loved other producers we worked with, but I think 1:24:56.600 --> 1:24:58.920 we got the best out them on the one we 1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:02.920 we we got it. Okay, that songwriting thing, I got that. 1:25:03.000 --> 1:25:05.240 Now I'm never going to do that again. That that 1:25:05.360 --> 1:25:08.519 lessons learned? What else is out there? Well, you know, 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:12.439 Trevor Horn comes knocking. That's not bad. I mean when 1:25:12.439 --> 1:25:16.680 you think of the records he was making and so um, 1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:20.400 you know it was time for the new adventure. Okay, 1:25:20.439 --> 1:25:23.920 so that album with Trevor Horn has Belfast Child tell 1:25:24.000 --> 1:25:27.960 us the story there, Well, Trevor was. I mean the 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:29.960 thing about Trevor is when you think back then, you 1:25:29.960 --> 1:25:34.000 think of those record breaking I mean everything he did 1:25:34.120 --> 1:25:38.360 was epic um where it was yes, whether Frankie goes 1:25:38.439 --> 1:25:43.200 to Hollywood, whether it was ABC seal. And he came 1:25:43.280 --> 1:25:45.680 up at the time, we're working in this studio and 1:25:45.720 --> 1:25:48.600 the countryside. And as soon as he comes and he 1:25:48.640 --> 1:25:51.840 goes to his um, why have you never made some 1:25:51.920 --> 1:25:56.120 kind of Celtic sounding record or song? And I said, well, 1:25:56.160 --> 1:25:58.599 that's the stuff I grew up hating. UM. I mean 1:25:58.640 --> 1:26:00.639 I didn't want to know about all of that stuff 1:26:00.640 --> 1:26:02.639 when I grew up. I wanted to know about New York. 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:05.960 I wanted to know about Detroit, I wanted to know 1:26:06.040 --> 1:26:09.080 about Los Angeles, wanted to know about the doors. I 1:26:09.080 --> 1:26:12.120 don't want to know about my grandmother's highland home and 1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:16.000 her music and all that stuff. And he said, well, 1:26:17.200 --> 1:26:20.439 I think you're making a mistake there. So he planted 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:24.800 a seed. And we were working one night, took a 1:26:24.800 --> 1:26:28.000 break for dinner, and I came out in the base 1:26:28.040 --> 1:26:30.360 player we're working with at the time, A fellow called 1:26:31.080 --> 1:26:34.360 John Giblin, a bit older than us. John, and he 1:26:34.360 --> 1:26:37.400 he didn't know folk music, and he didn't know a 1:26:37.400 --> 1:26:40.840 lot of the Celtic stuff. As I came into the room, 1:26:40.840 --> 1:26:44.160 he was there alone and he had taken the base 1:26:44.240 --> 1:26:46.200 off he could play a bit of keys and he 1:26:46.280 --> 1:26:51.680 was playing the most hauntingly beautiful melody. And I just 1:26:51.720 --> 1:26:57.160 sat down listened and at the end I said to him, 1:26:57.160 --> 1:26:59.400 when did you write that? I assumed he had written it, 1:26:59.439 --> 1:27:02.280 because he had he had written a couple of things 1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:05.360 for us. I just assumed he had written it. And 1:27:05.360 --> 1:27:09.920 he said, oh, about two hundred years ago. What are 1:27:09.920 --> 1:27:12.320 you talking about? He said, no, I didn't write this. 1:27:12.320 --> 1:27:16.120 This is from a traditional Irish air called she Moved 1:27:16.120 --> 1:27:20.439 through the fair And I said, really, well, just that 1:27:20.520 --> 1:27:24.160 week there had been it was before the peace process 1:27:24.200 --> 1:27:28.680 in Belfast, there had been a horrendous incident and it 1:27:28.760 --> 1:27:31.120 was all over the news. Now, growing up in Glasgow 1:27:31.840 --> 1:27:34.120 on a clear day and just down the course from 1:27:34.120 --> 1:27:38.280 Glasgow you can actually see Ireland literally, so we grew 1:27:38.320 --> 1:27:42.000 up with all that on a doorstep, all that sadness 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:45.519 and tragedy of those years, we felt very close to it. 1:27:46.000 --> 1:27:48.760 And with that album, Street fading years. I guess I 1:27:48.840 --> 1:27:52.200 was better at thirty. Then. I guess at a certain time, 1:27:52.320 --> 1:27:54.679 you you kind of you feel the need, you want 1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:58.920 to write about the big themes, the big subjects, and 1:27:59.479 --> 1:28:07.599 at that I'm Mandela apartheid, human rights on a door 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:11.599 step Belfast. And when he came up with that Irish well, 1:28:11.640 --> 1:28:14.720 when he presented that Irish melody, he said, go and 1:28:14.800 --> 1:28:18.600 check out the song. Someone back and I got obsessed 1:28:18.600 --> 1:28:21.400 by the song. I I, of course, it's the days 1:28:21.439 --> 1:28:25.519 before the internet. But I I ended up with so 1:28:25.560 --> 1:28:29.800 many versions and I thought, I wonder if you can 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:32.519 just rap your own words to it? Because it was 1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:37.400 obviously public domain. I wasn't a publishing issue. And I thought, 1:28:37.400 --> 1:28:43.200 I wonder if that is I wonder how kosher that is? Um, 1:28:43.280 --> 1:28:45.600 Because for some people in the folk world it's a 1:28:45.680 --> 1:28:49.320 sacred cove, but for other people that's a very nature 1:28:49.360 --> 1:28:51.960 of folk music that they often changed the worlds, and 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:55.360 every generation came along and they adapted and they put 1:28:55.360 --> 1:28:59.480 their own things. So eventually I thought, fuck it, Um, 1:28:59.560 --> 1:29:02.920 I'm going to write my own story. I'm going to 1:29:02.960 --> 1:29:07.840 write my own song to this melody. Um. Trevor thought 1:29:07.840 --> 1:29:10.880 I was a great idea, and in a sense what 1:29:10.960 --> 1:29:15.360 we put together was it's almost the version of Stairway 1:29:15.520 --> 1:29:20.080 Heaven because that also begins very folk, and then the 1:29:20.120 --> 1:29:25.080 song expands, you know, the band, the solo, and then 1:29:25.120 --> 1:29:29.479 it well again it's a case of well, we'll do it, 1:29:29.520 --> 1:29:32.960 but it will never work. Well it goes to number one. 1:29:33.560 --> 1:29:35.800 I don't know how many countries I went to number one. 1:29:35.920 --> 1:29:41.360 Unfortunately it wasn't for America. But it was Trevor who 1:29:41.400 --> 1:29:44.639 pushed this into that and then for the longest time 1:29:44.640 --> 1:29:47.240 we didn't play it, who started playing it again. It 1:29:47.280 --> 1:29:50.520 seems to have found its time because even though thankfully 1:29:51.640 --> 1:29:56.160 situation in Northern Ireland has changed dramatically, the real lessons 1:29:56.200 --> 1:30:00.320 to the song is about the victims of Irelan somen 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:04.599 war and right now as we speak, certainly in Europe, 1:30:05.400 --> 1:30:10.000 um that's very prevalent. So whenever we play the song, yeah, 1:30:10.000 --> 1:30:12.960 it's about Belfast, but it's no longer about Belfast, It's 1:30:13.000 --> 1:30:18.160 about wherever war is going on. Okay, the next album 1:30:18.360 --> 1:30:22.800 you work with Trevor's guy, Stephen Lipson, um you do 1:30:23.000 --> 1:30:27.920 Let there Be Love, which is my favorite Simple Minds song. 1:30:28.000 --> 1:30:30.439 So I'm gonna ask you how that came together well. 1:30:30.520 --> 1:30:33.719 I mean Stephen was when we realized working with Trevor 1:30:33.760 --> 1:30:36.200 that Stephen was such a huge part of it. I mean, 1:30:36.640 --> 1:30:41.240 Trevor wouldn't deny that he was a brilliant programmer. He 1:30:41.320 --> 1:30:43.439 could play as well, Steve, you know something, he would 1:30:43.479 --> 1:30:44.920 just give me the guitar, you know, and he would 1:30:44.920 --> 1:30:47.360 play Elaine and other people you like, hang on a minute, 1:30:48.000 --> 1:30:49.720 but it would be a great idea. So he was 1:30:49.760 --> 1:30:54.439 also a collaborate or Um. We were under pressure, Bob, 1:30:54.479 --> 1:30:59.240 because after after Belfast Child and that Street Fighting year's 1:30:59.240 --> 1:31:04.080 record that didn't do anything in America thankfully did well elsewhere, 1:31:04.120 --> 1:31:06.519 we were under pressure to try and get back to 1:31:06.600 --> 1:31:11.320 a more classic Simple Minds song in relation to a 1:31:11.400 --> 1:31:13.640 sort of alive in kicking or something. So if I 1:31:13.760 --> 1:31:16.559 was being crude, I would say that we we threw 1:31:16.560 --> 1:31:20.559 ourselves and they're trying to get something in that vein 1:31:20.640 --> 1:31:26.760 again and it worked. I mean again, it's a song 1:31:26.800 --> 1:31:31.920 when we played live, very soulful verse, but big soaring chorus. 1:31:32.640 --> 1:31:36.880 I mean they say that writers only have one or 1:31:36.920 --> 1:31:41.040 two themes, whether you're Bob Dylan or whatever, and there's 1:31:41.040 --> 1:31:45.599 always been a great optimism simple Minds music I think 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:50.679 a great feeling of don't give up, keep the faith, 1:31:51.439 --> 1:31:55.680 and essentially under a lot of the lyrics to those songs, 1:31:55.720 --> 1:31:58.880 that's that's the message. Okay, you know I love the 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:04.920 next five good news. But if you look back at 1:32:04.960 --> 1:32:09.599 this period, which ultimately leads to your h the Danu 1:32:09.680 --> 1:32:15.240 mar In pulling away, would you do anything different? I 1:32:15.240 --> 1:32:17.600 mean what what we would have done different was not 1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:20.640 leave so much time between albums. I mean, you know, 1:32:20.680 --> 1:32:23.320 if you leave two or three years between albums, I mean, 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:28.000 you're asking for problems. But there was reasons for those 1:32:28.040 --> 1:32:30.200 gaps as well. I mean, we as a touring band, 1:32:30.240 --> 1:32:32.559 if you tour for a year and when we throwed, 1:32:32.600 --> 1:32:34.799 it would be the best part of a year because 1:32:34.840 --> 1:32:36.679 you know, that was still how we made our coin, 1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:39.760 and that's still the life we wanted to live. So 1:32:39.800 --> 1:32:43.120 if you tour for a year, m the time you 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:45.280 come off of that, and by this time, we're getting 1:32:45.280 --> 1:32:47.880 older and and and you know, you have other things 1:32:47.920 --> 1:32:54.200 in your life. Kids, wife's obligations, parents are getting older. Um, 1:32:54.240 --> 1:32:56.400 you've got to give time to that. Then you got 1:32:56.520 --> 1:32:58.960 to right and then it's you know, before you know it, 1:33:00.040 --> 1:33:08.480 three years is gone. Um, and a new generation comes along, so, UM, 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:11.000 that is it. But I but I don't know. You 1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:14.000 can't have it all. Maybe some people can, I don't think. 1:33:14.040 --> 1:33:16.760 So you can't have it all. Something has to give, 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:21.000 and you lose out in one area, you hope your 1:33:21.000 --> 1:33:26.160 life gets enriched in another area. Um, A spaces is made. 1:33:26.200 --> 1:33:30.120 So it's kind of hard to Um, it's hard. I 1:33:30.120 --> 1:33:32.759 mean I also think I also think we were running, 1:33:32.800 --> 1:33:34.960 you know, we were starting to run on fumes too. 1:33:35.000 --> 1:33:36.840 I mean, how many songs have you got in you? 1:33:37.400 --> 1:33:41.840 How much? You know? Sometimes you just have to head 1:33:41.840 --> 1:33:44.000 for the hills and give people a break. People have 1:33:44.080 --> 1:33:47.200 had enough for you, time to you know, time to 1:33:47.240 --> 1:33:50.639 move on and and see. I think the trick then 1:33:50.800 --> 1:33:53.360 is it's getting back to super talking. You've got ahead 1:33:53.360 --> 1:33:57.680 for the hills and try and not do anything too desperate, 1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:04.920 you know, because it's uh, be patient, get all the 1:34:04.960 --> 1:34:08.200 things in your life. Stock up the pool again, because 1:34:08.240 --> 1:34:10.439 what are you going to write from. You have to 1:34:11.760 --> 1:34:13.920 you have to fill up the well. You have to 1:34:13.960 --> 1:34:19.080 get hungry again. Um. Your question was what would we 1:34:20.000 --> 1:34:24.479 two different? What I would say is I'm glad. I'm 1:34:24.520 --> 1:34:27.360 glad of something that we didn't do. We didn't get 1:34:27.360 --> 1:34:32.479 embittered because you know, sometimes you meet people that can 1:34:32.520 --> 1:34:36.000 have had it and they lost it, and um, it's 1:34:36.040 --> 1:34:39.680 everyone else's fault, you know that what all those them 1:34:39.840 --> 1:34:43.080 something Although the record company didn't do this, oh the 1:34:43.200 --> 1:34:47.560 media wrote that all this. Sometimes you just got to 1:34:47.600 --> 1:34:49.080 take it on the chin. You know what, are you 1:34:49.080 --> 1:34:51.320 gonna run home your mommy? It is what it is. 1:34:52.760 --> 1:34:56.240 So you ultimately did get married and have kids. How 1:34:56.240 --> 1:34:58.880 did you keep that marriage going for so long as 1:34:58.920 --> 1:35:04.760 a road musician. What are your kids up to today? Well, 1:35:04.800 --> 1:35:06.679 I don't know if it was. I mean, of course 1:35:06.760 --> 1:35:10.960 it's subjective of what is long. But you know, one 1:35:11.000 --> 1:35:13.880 of the big stories in my life would always be 1:35:14.040 --> 1:35:18.160 was meeting Chrissy Haynd and marry and Chrissy Haynd. I mean, 1:35:18.200 --> 1:35:21.679 at the Chris, he's older than me. She she's she's 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:24.200 your age, Bob. I think maybe a couple of years older. 1:35:24.320 --> 1:35:31.439 She's eight years older than me. Um, meeting someone, I 1:35:31.439 --> 1:35:33.760 mean everyone has this image of Chrissy and I have 1:35:33.880 --> 1:35:36.280 to say it. You know, she she does live up 1:35:36.280 --> 1:35:39.760 to it most of the time, but there's a whole 1:35:39.760 --> 1:35:44.000 other side of our But she's a pussy cat and 1:35:44.800 --> 1:35:47.720 when I met her, I was twenty four. She was 1:35:47.760 --> 1:35:49.760 there too. I don't even think i'd even met. I 1:35:49.840 --> 1:35:53.040 don't think i'd ever even live with a girlfriend before that, 1:35:53.600 --> 1:35:56.760 or a woman. But my band was sailing, we were 1:35:56.800 --> 1:35:59.400 having hits. I was maybe there was a piece of 1:35:59.439 --> 1:36:01.200 me thinking this is a piece of cake. I need 1:36:01.200 --> 1:36:05.759 a real challenge. Well, believe me, I got one. And 1:36:07.560 --> 1:36:12.080 but looking back now, I mean, amazing girl from Ohio. 1:36:13.160 --> 1:36:16.000 I was such a fan as well. I mean, what 1:36:16.120 --> 1:36:21.280 an artist she is. But she'd been around the block, 1:36:22.680 --> 1:36:24.559 and kind of no one I hung out with had 1:36:24.600 --> 1:36:26.800 been around the block more than me. I need. I 1:36:26.800 --> 1:36:30.960 didn't have any older brothers or sisters. She was at 1:36:31.040 --> 1:36:34.200 Kent State. She had all that. She from Ohio. She 1:36:34.240 --> 1:36:36.400 knew all the Midway. She had an amazing taste in 1:36:36.560 --> 1:36:39.080 music through listening to the radio. She in New Country, 1:36:39.120 --> 1:36:43.200 she knew blues, she knew rock. She's the only person 1:36:43.240 --> 1:36:47.600 now with to this day who would say, Bruce Springsteen, 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:51.120 give me a break. It's Mitch Rider you want to see. Um. 1:36:51.840 --> 1:36:57.760 I mean she there was such an education there. Um 1:36:58.400 --> 1:37:02.320 really great, great woman. But mh. You find out that 1:37:05.000 --> 1:37:08.120 the thing that excites you the most quite often it's 1:37:08.160 --> 1:37:10.960 not the thing that's good for you. Um. That can 1:37:11.000 --> 1:37:13.559 be heroin, or it can be junk food, or it 1:37:13.640 --> 1:37:17.880 can be relationships or whatever. It wasn't meant to last long. 1:37:17.960 --> 1:37:22.960 To be honest, you see. Um hey, it makes sense, Maddie. 1:37:23.000 --> 1:37:26.400 Someone in the same industry, they'll understand. You know, if 1:37:26.439 --> 1:37:30.280 you work in a kick shop, Mary, whatever the other 1:37:30.320 --> 1:37:33.160 person work, you'll understand you're from the same line. But 1:37:34.000 --> 1:37:38.280 it's very hard to make it work together. Um. I 1:37:38.320 --> 1:37:40.559 didn't even know who I was then. I was still 1:37:40.600 --> 1:37:44.519 a kid. But we have not only a kid, we 1:37:44.560 --> 1:37:52.920 have grandkids and still in touch and still good good dialogue. 1:37:53.000 --> 1:37:55.759 And I'm still a fan. And how about Patsy Kensit 1:37:55.840 --> 1:38:02.840 after that, well, Patsy Patsy. I I was the elder one, 1:38:03.640 --> 1:38:07.160 and I think at the time, well, you know, I'm smitten. 1:38:07.360 --> 1:38:12.160 My kids loved her still do Um. I think I 1:38:12.200 --> 1:38:16.519 helped her out of a jam. Sometimes sometimes you love 1:38:16.560 --> 1:38:23.639 somebody because because you you think you can do something 1:38:23.720 --> 1:38:25.840 for them that makes you also feel good. And that 1:38:25.960 --> 1:38:29.400 was the case there. I'm still a fairly young young man, 1:38:30.200 --> 1:38:35.439 and I think a part of me felt it felt good. 1:38:36.439 --> 1:38:41.040 But you're right, then you're going tour and then you're 1:38:41.040 --> 1:38:43.000 not there for this, and you're not there for that, 1:38:43.160 --> 1:38:46.840 and then resentments begin and and I mean, and I 1:38:46.840 --> 1:38:50.400 I I mean, I have to see I'm I can't 1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:53.840 be very selfish. I really can. I'm very selfish with 1:38:53.840 --> 1:38:59.880 my time. I'm very selfish headspace, and I spend a 1:39:00.000 --> 1:39:04.880 lot of time alone. Um. I love my band and 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:06.719 I love being out in the road, I love playing. 1:39:07.680 --> 1:39:13.960 Um maybe it just wasn't for me, Okay, but you're 1:39:13.960 --> 1:39:17.280 in a long term relationship now, right, Yeah, for the 1:39:17.320 --> 1:39:20.160 longest time, I've been with a Japanese woman. And when 1:39:20.200 --> 1:39:22.840 I said a little both finding someone who's good for you, 1:39:22.840 --> 1:39:26.679 who can organize everything as well as make you feel good, 1:39:27.240 --> 1:39:30.240 and everyone loves And also, I mean, the other thing 1:39:30.360 --> 1:39:34.920 is it's so great to be with people from other cultures. 1:39:35.360 --> 1:39:37.040 A lot of people will tell you that's not the case. 1:39:37.120 --> 1:39:40.160 You should be with with your own only. But it's 1:39:40.200 --> 1:39:43.360 been so enriching, not only to live in places, but 1:39:43.400 --> 1:39:46.479 I mean, we are I'm so gladgo through and through 1:39:46.560 --> 1:39:49.040 the rock I made from his Glasgow, through and through. 1:39:49.400 --> 1:39:53.320 But it's been shaped by your experiences, by the people 1:39:53.360 --> 1:39:56.360 who have been with different cultures, to get a language 1:39:57.800 --> 1:40:00.920 to go to Japan to spend time there. I mean 1:40:02.840 --> 1:40:12.360 it's been sort of walting. Your band has a lot 1:40:12.439 --> 1:40:15.240 of live albums, and I gotta say, the one in 1:40:15.280 --> 1:40:21.000 the Silver Box just unbelievable. And of course it's different 1:40:21.000 --> 1:40:24.280 from what it was prior to the Internet. You know, 1:40:24.400 --> 1:40:26.920 when live album was something rare, was treated like a 1:40:26.960 --> 1:40:30.240 regular release. Now there's all this stuff on YouTube, you know, 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:32.880 And he thought, I mean, the Stones go on put 1:40:32.880 --> 1:40:35.080 on a live album from every tour, but most people 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:38.920 do not there any thought about how many live albums, 1:40:38.920 --> 1:40:41.280 whether to put it out, not to put it out. No, 1:40:41.479 --> 1:40:43.519 I think you should always put it out. If if 1:40:43.520 --> 1:40:45.599 if if, I mean if you go to hardcore, I'm 1:40:45.600 --> 1:40:48.519 in the Grid, the Grateful Dead, they're They're the ones 1:40:48.640 --> 1:40:51.959 where I think you should put as long as the quality. 1:40:52.040 --> 1:40:56.920 If you believe in the quality, um then and if 1:40:56.960 --> 1:40:59.519 you're a great live band and you're always adding stuff 1:40:59.640 --> 1:41:04.920 or you've different versions or or then it it merits it. 1:41:05.120 --> 1:41:09.080 I think every every couple of tours, let's let's say, 1:41:09.240 --> 1:41:11.720 and we're still from that thing. I mean, going back 1:41:11.760 --> 1:41:13.200 to it when I said to you as a kid 1:41:13.240 --> 1:41:17.679 at sound checks, what did I learn at that scene? Bands? 1:41:17.720 --> 1:41:22.400 I mean, you know, you got all these gigs, and 1:41:22.439 --> 1:41:25.080 you see people who are good, and then you see 1:41:25.160 --> 1:41:29.000 bands that are artists, bands whatever, who are great, and 1:41:29.040 --> 1:41:32.759 the difference between good and great is colossal. Some people 1:41:32.800 --> 1:41:35.360 can make the room jump up and down. Some people 1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:38.759 can make the walls reverby, some people can the gig finishes, 1:41:38.800 --> 1:41:42.040 you're still thinking about it two weeks later, and then 1:41:42.040 --> 1:41:43.640 there's other bands come in the plane. You think, oh, 1:41:43.720 --> 1:41:45.679 that was good, and you don't think about it again 1:41:45.720 --> 1:41:47.719 the next day. Well, we knew from the early days 1:41:49.280 --> 1:41:51.160 what kind of band we would like to be in, 1:41:52.040 --> 1:41:55.080 and and we still wrestle with that challenge, and we 1:41:55.160 --> 1:41:58.960 still documented, and that's where the live albums come in. Well, yeah, 1:41:59.000 --> 1:42:01.640 let's go back to your point about you can be selfish. 1:42:01.640 --> 1:42:04.640 Selfish has a bad connotation, but what you're saying is 1:42:04.720 --> 1:42:10.160 you need your alone time. Does your present girlfriend of 1:42:10.439 --> 1:42:16.719 long standing does she respect that or have you adjusted? Also, 1:42:17.040 --> 1:42:19.800 of course there's the conundrum of needing your alone time 1:42:19.840 --> 1:42:23.799 and then getting on stage two thousands. Well, first of all, 1:42:24.200 --> 1:42:26.719 the partner I've had for the longest time, we spend 1:42:26.760 --> 1:42:29.080 a lot of time apart. I'm in Sicily. She comes 1:42:29.080 --> 1:42:31.280 out a lot but we have a place also in Niece. 1:42:31.400 --> 1:42:34.360 She has her own life there, but of a business there, 1:42:35.160 --> 1:42:41.440 and never once has there been a complaint. She's busy. 1:42:41.600 --> 1:42:43.840 She does our thing and when we see each other 1:42:44.160 --> 1:42:47.040 as great. When we don't, when we're not with each other, 1:42:48.240 --> 1:42:54.960 we're doing our own things. We're growing up, we're adults. Um. 1:42:55.000 --> 1:42:57.720 I think we've at a certain age. You should get 1:42:57.800 --> 1:43:01.040 smart about things. There has to be space. There's got 1:43:01.040 --> 1:43:04.479 to be space, and certainly for for me, I spend 1:43:04.520 --> 1:43:08.639 I mean, I get up. It's the irony. I thought 1:43:08.680 --> 1:43:10.280 I'd get in a rock and roll band because I 1:43:10.280 --> 1:43:11.880 could lie in bed all day, and I find that 1:43:12.000 --> 1:43:15.080 I'm wide awake at five in the morning. Doesn't matter 1:43:15.160 --> 1:43:18.519 what it is. Um I never thought you would be 1:43:18.560 --> 1:43:21.120 able to listen to rock music or right rock song 1:43:21.200 --> 1:43:23.439 at five in the morning. Just doesn't seem the right thing. 1:43:24.360 --> 1:43:27.519 Believe me, you can. Your brain is sharp, it's clear. 1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:29.360 The rest of the world there's not up yet. You 1:43:29.400 --> 1:43:31.639 can get more done in those three or four hours 1:43:31.680 --> 1:43:36.400 than the rest of the day. Um So, And I'm 1:43:36.680 --> 1:43:41.560 I'm very I'm very protective now of that. I said selfish, 1:43:41.600 --> 1:43:45.120 But you know, this is the stuff that brings home 1:43:45.160 --> 1:43:47.080 the corn. This is the stuff that puts food on 1:43:47.120 --> 1:43:49.080 the table. This is the stuff that puts a roof 1:43:49.160 --> 1:43:52.680 over our heads. That's the way it works. There has 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:55.200 to be time. You've got to read, you've gotta listen, 1:43:55.560 --> 1:43:59.240 you've gotta think, you have to room or try things 1:43:59.240 --> 1:44:02.519 and get them wrong. It's a full on commitment. And 1:44:02.760 --> 1:44:05.320 Charlie's the same now his kids are grown up. Um, 1:44:05.600 --> 1:44:08.120 it's it's a full wee go there Monday Friday, we 1:44:08.240 --> 1:44:12.040 work Monday Friday. And and of course we don't have 1:44:12.120 --> 1:44:14.599 to do that. We don't have to in terms of 1:44:14.760 --> 1:44:16.439 being able to eat for the rest of our lives. 1:44:16.439 --> 1:44:19.559 Are We're into it. That's what it is. It's a 1:44:19.640 --> 1:44:22.280 sacred thing. If you have an art, it's it's sacred. 1:44:22.320 --> 1:44:25.280 And your archets jail. Your archet's jealous on you as 1:44:25.280 --> 1:44:30.160 well if you stop doing that. The muscles, the creative muscles, 1:44:30.160 --> 1:44:33.920 and I believe there's such a thing. You know, they're 1:44:33.920 --> 1:44:38.439 not long and this integrating. Um, it's hard to get 1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:41.640 back on a horse. So you you really have to 1:44:41.720 --> 1:44:46.080 keep it. You you can't do it half measures and 1:44:46.160 --> 1:44:51.360 anyone around you. That's the deal. Like certainly understand the 1:44:51.439 --> 1:44:54.599 selfish alone time. I mean, when I'm concentrate, I'm thinking 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:57.920 like a percent fair. I don't like to be interrupted, 1:44:58.240 --> 1:45:01.559 and the average person just can't understand it because they're 1:45:01.600 --> 1:45:06.160 just used to go out. I go for days whereout 1:45:06.200 --> 1:45:08.840 speaking to anyone. I mean, I just go for days 1:45:08.840 --> 1:45:11.040 whether they're speaking to anyone. I mean, I'm also very 1:45:11.160 --> 1:45:14.400 I'm also very lucky it there is people who put 1:45:14.520 --> 1:45:23.599 up with it um um. But I like a lot 1:45:23.600 --> 1:45:25.720 of time alone. I mean, in sicily, as soon as 1:45:25.760 --> 1:45:29.320 I've done my three or four um hours in the 1:45:29.360 --> 1:45:32.400 morning working, whether I'm up in the hills, well, I mean, 1:45:32.520 --> 1:45:34.559 so you come back to a biblical landscape. They only 1:45:34.600 --> 1:45:39.000 sound up. There's goatbells and crickets. But I don't meditate 1:45:39.080 --> 1:45:43.160 the way people conventional meditation. But that is my meditation. 1:45:43.640 --> 1:45:46.360 You go walking, you hill walk, and you get into 1:45:46.439 --> 1:45:53.080 a pace you're breathing. Problems come at the forefront before 1:45:53.120 --> 1:45:55.000 you know it. You've got to I've got an idea 1:45:55.000 --> 1:45:58.760 about that. Oh, I mean, I find all of that. 1:45:58.760 --> 1:46:02.760 That's the only way I know how a function. I mean, unfortunately, 1:46:02.760 --> 1:46:05.240 I've asked my my kids, you know, because every well, Dad, 1:46:05.280 --> 1:46:07.040 you were never there for us were there, you were 1:46:07.040 --> 1:46:10.880 all You're always there, you were always there somehow managed 1:46:10.920 --> 1:46:14.800 to make it work. Um. But certainly in that thing, 1:46:14.840 --> 1:46:18.040 I mean on the on tour, if it's a night off, 1:46:18.080 --> 1:46:21.360 I'll never go out with the band, or and I 1:46:21.400 --> 1:46:23.920 go on my own, I go walk around the city, 1:46:24.080 --> 1:46:28.240 or I go whatever. Um. At the gig between four 1:46:28.280 --> 1:46:32.599 o'clock and well after the sound check two eight o'clock, 1:46:33.000 --> 1:46:36.560 I don't speak to anyone. I don't see anyone. Um. 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:39.000 The great thing about of course, you get to save 1:46:39.080 --> 1:46:43.439 your voice. Um. And then when it comes time to 1:46:43.600 --> 1:46:47.479 spring into action and be present, whether it's on stage 1:46:47.560 --> 1:46:51.320 or whether it's the participating in life with your friends 1:46:51.400 --> 1:46:55.720 or whatever, I'm fully there. I'm never there, and I'm 1:46:55.760 --> 1:46:58.240 never there but not there, if you know what I mean. 1:46:58.760 --> 1:47:02.519 But that's the deal exactly. So a lot of you 1:47:02.560 --> 1:47:06.519 know their legendary stories that people become successful, they buy 1:47:06.520 --> 1:47:09.559 their parents a house, they buy them a car. Did 1:47:09.640 --> 1:47:13.280 you do anything like that all of that? And it 1:47:13.439 --> 1:47:16.160 was with the greatest pleasure. I mean, I'll tell your 1:47:16.160 --> 1:47:18.920 story here. That's pretty good because you know, Richard Brownson 1:47:18.920 --> 1:47:21.360 gets a bad rap. But I'll tell you this. So 1:47:22.439 --> 1:47:25.280 when I was living in Uh. I told you, I 1:47:25.280 --> 1:47:28.640 grew up in this high rise flat. And even when 1:47:28.680 --> 1:47:32.439 the band was still touring and just starting to break 1:47:32.479 --> 1:47:34.960 through and being in the newspaper, has been on TV, 1:47:35.479 --> 1:47:37.800 I think had their first hit, but we had all 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:40.719 that debt to pay off, so we didn't have money. 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:43.920 But I came back home and and I didn't have 1:47:43.960 --> 1:47:45.639 a place in my own lit because we were always 1:47:45.680 --> 1:47:48.400 in tour, so why would I So I'd come back 1:47:48.439 --> 1:47:53.760 home and crash mom and Dad's council apartment. Well, I 1:47:53.840 --> 1:47:59.200 came home and the irony because parents were always afraid 1:47:59.200 --> 1:48:01.559 when we get in this business, that would be drugs 1:48:01.640 --> 1:48:04.799 around and we would all end up. They saw heroin 1:48:04.960 --> 1:48:08.479 before I saw heroin because at that time it came 1:48:08.520 --> 1:48:11.000 into Glasgow and it was starting to come into the 1:48:11.080 --> 1:48:17.720 housing projects and schemes. Anyway, I turned up and a 1:48:17.760 --> 1:48:22.679 couple of houses you know, had become hangouts for drug 1:48:23.000 --> 1:48:26.320 drug addicts and stuff. So I thought, now, it's probably 1:48:26.439 --> 1:48:30.360 about fifty pounds a week then and I heard about 1:48:30.400 --> 1:48:33.880 this you can get a mortgage thing, and you know, 1:48:34.000 --> 1:48:38.600 and back then, of course, the bank managers before the 1:48:38.640 --> 1:48:42.280 computer says no, the bank managers were kind of allowed 1:48:42.840 --> 1:48:46.880 to um, go on a hunch, and my manager at 1:48:46.880 --> 1:48:49.639 the time said, go along in the bank manager, simple 1:48:49.720 --> 1:48:52.880 mains everyone in Glasgow No, simple mazer. He'll know you 1:48:53.320 --> 1:48:55.080 and he'll listen to you. So I saw this house. 1:48:55.320 --> 1:48:59.000 Mom and dad loved it. I couldn't see to my dad. Incidentally, 1:48:59.040 --> 1:49:01.000 I was buying it for them because you too too 1:49:01.080 --> 1:49:03.960 much prayed. I said it was for me and they 1:49:03.960 --> 1:49:06.760 would look after it while I wasn't tour because it 1:49:06.880 --> 1:49:10.160 just would have felt wrong. So we saw this house. 1:49:10.720 --> 1:49:16.320 I think it costs sixty grand. Great part of Glasgow Garden. 1:49:16.439 --> 1:49:19.200 All of this just beautiful. Can't believe that no one 1:49:19.320 --> 1:49:21.040 from our family has ever had a place like this. 1:49:22.080 --> 1:49:24.519 So I go along the bank manager and I think 1:49:24.560 --> 1:49:28.680 I'm all prepared, and he said, yep, yeah, my my 1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:31.479 daughter loves you and you know she's been at the gigs. 1:49:31.520 --> 1:49:35.600 I know you're doing well and blah blah blah. What 1:49:35.600 --> 1:49:38.679 what's going on? So I explained to him. I explained 1:49:38.680 --> 1:49:43.800 the situation and he listens to every word. Then he says, um. 1:49:43.880 --> 1:49:45.960 He says, well, that's great. I know that house. I 1:49:46.000 --> 1:49:48.719 live in the area. I know the house you're talking about. Great, 1:49:49.640 --> 1:49:52.080 so great, How are we going to do this, and 1:49:52.120 --> 1:49:55.360 I said, well, you know the mortgage, you're gonna we're 1:49:55.360 --> 1:49:57.280 gonna look at the mortgage and he said, yeah, what 1:49:57.320 --> 1:50:01.200 are you gonna give me? Meaning deposit? And I said, 1:50:01.240 --> 1:50:05.400 what do you mean is you had a guarantee. I 1:50:05.400 --> 1:50:08.320 think I was twenty two at the time. My guarantee, Bob. 1:50:08.360 --> 1:50:13.479 I tookout all these live reviews that that we're saying, 1:50:13.479 --> 1:50:16.200 you know, simple Mains, Band of the future, Simple Mains, 1:50:16.240 --> 1:50:19.240 They're gonna be huge. He looked at them and went, 1:50:19.720 --> 1:50:21.479 that's what you're gonna give me, these three or four 1:50:21.560 --> 1:50:25.200 bits of paper. I said, yeah, look, I mean it's 1:50:25.280 --> 1:50:30.679 it's we're happening. And he said, no, that's not how 1:50:30.720 --> 1:50:33.080 it works. You need to give me a deposit fift 1:50:35.439 --> 1:50:38.760 I said, well, I haven't got any money. He said, well, 1:50:39.320 --> 1:50:42.639 you know, I don't know what to say. And as 1:50:42.680 --> 1:50:45.320 I was getting up, he said, do you know anyone 1:50:45.360 --> 1:50:49.799 way any money? And I said no, no, I don't 1:50:50.320 --> 1:50:54.759 um anyway. Two days later I got a call from him. 1:50:54.840 --> 1:50:59.559 He says, I can't believe it. Richard Branson just phoned me. 1:51:00.479 --> 1:51:06.200 He's going to cover it. He's gonna cover it. We're 1:51:06.280 --> 1:51:09.160 on if Richard Branson is going to cover it. We're 1:51:09.200 --> 1:51:13.960 on and to this day I will always be thankful. 1:51:14.000 --> 1:51:15.960 I mean, you know, we have the whole thing with 1:51:16.040 --> 1:51:18.400 record industries, and we know the record deals where you 1:51:18.479 --> 1:51:20.920 get screwed for people say well, at least the bank 1:51:21.040 --> 1:51:24.479 when you pay them back. Well, you know, banks would 1:51:24.520 --> 1:51:27.479 never have given your money and make records, but Richard 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:33.000 Branson did and I will forever be grateful to him 1:51:33.040 --> 1:51:35.639 for that. So, yeah, all of the band looked after 1:51:35.680 --> 1:51:40.000 their parents and their stuff, and and you know now 1:51:40.439 --> 1:51:42.840 it's to do with the nieces and the nephews and 1:51:43.360 --> 1:51:47.280 the sons and daughters, and we try to help out 1:51:47.360 --> 1:51:51.160 there as well. So you have a new album in 1:51:51.200 --> 1:51:54.720 the pipeline, you obviously you're making the music because you're 1:51:54.800 --> 1:51:58.479 driven to do that. What are your expectations? Most of 1:51:58.520 --> 1:52:01.160 your contemporaries, if there's a together, don't even put out 1:52:01.160 --> 1:52:05.479 new music. So you're doing this. Are you saying, well, 1:52:05.479 --> 1:52:07.519 this is what I do, the fans will like it, 1:52:08.320 --> 1:52:10.840 or you know, there's the old paradigm of having a hit. 1:52:10.840 --> 1:52:13.080 Who even knows what it hit is? Today? Top forty 1:52:13.160 --> 1:52:16.040 is certainly in America does not play this kind of music. 1:52:16.040 --> 1:52:19.240 They're play popper hip hop. So I restate my point, 1:52:19.680 --> 1:52:22.960 what are your expectations? We'll go back if you have 1:52:23.040 --> 1:52:24.760 the music and you you just have to make it. 1:52:24.840 --> 1:52:26.880 That's it. If you've got songs, I mean, how are 1:52:26.880 --> 1:52:29.160 you gonna stop? If it's still in you and still 1:52:29.800 --> 1:52:32.880 wants you know, wants to be held. When I say 1:52:32.960 --> 1:52:35.799 wants to be held, I want to hear it, Charlie 1:52:35.880 --> 1:52:38.000 wants I wants to hear it. We want to test 1:52:38.080 --> 1:52:42.040 or say where artists. This isn't just a scam where artists. 1:52:42.040 --> 1:52:45.720 We've been doing this since we're fourteen sixty three. We've 1:52:45.760 --> 1:52:47.439 been writing songs out of the lace. What are we 1:52:47.520 --> 1:52:50.960 just gonna give that up? When you love it, when 1:52:51.000 --> 1:52:54.320 you enjoy it, when it's how you see the world. No, 1:52:54.760 --> 1:52:57.000 but we know the realities and you have just pointed 1:52:57.040 --> 1:52:59.719 out many of them. As it happens again with simple Mans. 1:52:59.720 --> 1:53:03.840 Were fortunate. Our records do break even. Okay, it's the 1:53:03.920 --> 1:53:07.360 hardcore and they buy them and all the formats, but 1:53:08.120 --> 1:53:12.120 they're made with budgets and it works. The biggest thing 1:53:12.240 --> 1:53:15.600 is it refreshes everything. Now, I know you're not going 1:53:15.640 --> 1:53:19.360 to go and tour and play the whole record, but 1:53:19.439 --> 1:53:23.160 if you two killer songs that can and think, you know, 1:53:23.200 --> 1:53:25.480 if it's got to live up with your whole catalog, 1:53:26.360 --> 1:53:33.479 and that's a great, great thing. It revitalizes everything, rejuvenates everything, 1:53:34.600 --> 1:53:36.680 and you get to feel that you're just not in 1:53:36.720 --> 1:53:40.000 a museum. You know that it's not just a museum. 1:53:40.080 --> 1:53:43.439 I mean, I know people do and affair on them, 1:53:44.040 --> 1:53:48.479 they go around. But we're artists, we're creative people. So 1:53:48.520 --> 1:53:51.880 that's how we express ourselves. That's how There's always this 1:53:51.880 --> 1:53:54.160 this thing of you know, one more swing at it, 1:53:54.800 --> 1:54:00.080 one more swing, maybe we'll write that song. Um, And 1:54:00.640 --> 1:54:05.479 for us it worked. So there's no way up until 1:54:05.520 --> 1:54:08.200 now we have ever thought of given that up. What 1:54:08.280 --> 1:54:11.760 about the issue of playing that music live? Well, as 1:54:11.760 --> 1:54:14.639 I said last night on this tour, I gotta tell 1:54:14.640 --> 1:54:20.920 you we were out for four months. No Um. During 1:54:20.960 --> 1:54:24.639 the week we played about anything between four or five people, 1:54:25.120 --> 1:54:27.720 and at the weekend it gives up to ten or fifteen. 1:54:29.040 --> 1:54:33.360 It's not bad. We played twenty three songs um. Right 1:54:33.400 --> 1:54:38.160 now the new album isn't coming out to October. We 1:54:38.240 --> 1:54:41.320 play a couple of songs now. The songs we play 1:54:41.360 --> 1:54:45.240 are not the slow, moody songs that the songs were 1:54:45.240 --> 1:54:49.480 the big chunky choruses that even if you don't know them, 1:54:49.640 --> 1:54:52.320 audiences go, I don't know this, but I I like it. 1:54:52.400 --> 1:54:55.879 I'm getting it. So we always we play those those songs. 1:54:55.960 --> 1:54:58.520 And we played one last night for the first time, 1:54:58.560 --> 1:55:02.560 a song called first You Jump, And today among all 1:55:02.600 --> 1:55:07.640 our social networks, everyone's talking about it. Within our gang, 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:11.280 everyone's talking about it, and oh, we had twenty seconds 1:55:11.280 --> 1:55:15.120 of the song. We had this it um it keeps 1:55:15.160 --> 1:55:19.760 the heartbeat going. So we've had this whole COVID situation, 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:25.000 but generally speaking, how much do you want to play live? 1:55:25.080 --> 1:55:28.080 How many dates in a year? And can you and 1:55:28.200 --> 1:55:31.520 where can you play? And where would you not have 1:55:31.560 --> 1:55:34.640 an audience that you wish you could play? Well, you know, 1:55:34.680 --> 1:55:36.880 it was great the last few years to get back 1:55:36.880 --> 1:55:39.240 to America because there was a point what I thought 1:55:40.800 --> 1:55:45.360 maybe that was not going to happen, and there was 1:55:45.400 --> 1:55:48.480 a tour book there. Obviously didn't happen with the COVID 1:55:48.520 --> 1:55:50.560 no that, but it had the radio cities in it 1:55:50.640 --> 1:55:53.400 and what simple amazing radio city. Wow. I didn't think 1:55:53.440 --> 1:55:58.440 that's something I would see again, and others, I mean, yeah, 1:55:58.600 --> 1:56:02.840 there is still something about is that I wish I 1:56:02.880 --> 1:56:07.520 wish at the time we had appreciated more, um working 1:56:07.560 --> 1:56:11.360 in America, really getting you know, so much of that 1:56:11.480 --> 1:56:13.720 stuff is kind of mythical to us. We grew up 1:56:13.760 --> 1:56:16.240 with the movies, we grew up with the music. I 1:56:16.280 --> 1:56:21.320 love going to those old halls now that are re refurbished, 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:23.280 and you look at the people who played them, not 1:56:23.400 --> 1:56:26.920 just musicians, actors and and and it's a guy in 1:56:26.960 --> 1:56:29.040 the band, a big, big Beatles fan. He'll go the 1:56:29.040 --> 1:56:31.960 Beatles played here in nine. I say, like, screw the Beatles, 1:56:32.280 --> 1:56:36.920 the Marks Brothers played here. I mean it just I 1:56:37.000 --> 1:56:40.960 wish we had worked more in America. Now, um we were, 1:56:41.040 --> 1:56:43.640 We are getting the chance to go again. We will 1:56:43.680 --> 1:56:46.400 go again, but probably for us it would be better 1:56:46.440 --> 1:56:49.240 to to to you know, hook up with another band 1:56:49.360 --> 1:56:52.000 and and if you're going there, you may as well 1:56:52.040 --> 1:56:56.000 try and get across to a bigger audience. That's about 1:56:56.040 --> 1:56:59.720 the only place that that I wish we had worked more. 1:57:00.520 --> 1:57:05.160 Tell me about two peak experiences. Whether it'd be meeting someone, 1:57:05.360 --> 1:57:09.520 hearing your song on the radio, playing a gig, Well, 1:57:09.520 --> 1:57:11.960 there's that great thing. I'm meeting your heroes and you 1:57:12.000 --> 1:57:17.520 should never meet your heroes, or meeting your heroes, and um, 1:57:17.680 --> 1:57:21.040 not only have I met many of my music heroes, 1:57:21.120 --> 1:57:24.320 I've I've got to even stand at a microphone with them. 1:57:24.920 --> 1:57:27.160 Are the ones that spring to mine is Peter Gabriel 1:57:27.720 --> 1:57:32.320 who took us on tour and and you know the 1:57:32.400 --> 1:57:36.040 humility and the sheer artistry of that guy, that was 1:57:36.080 --> 1:57:40.480 really something. Lou Reid, who we managed to do a 1:57:40.520 --> 1:57:44.080 cameo on one of our records, well, to me, that's 1:57:44.120 --> 1:57:46.720 the equivalent of having Picasso. I mean that was just 1:57:47.720 --> 1:57:52.400 mind blowing. But the story we tell a lot of 1:57:52.440 --> 1:57:54.880 a good, great story because for people our generation, David 1:57:54.920 --> 1:57:57.800 Boye was the guy, and I'll tell you a story 1:57:57.840 --> 1:58:01.800 of them. You have heard of the famous studio. It's 1:58:01.800 --> 1:58:07.440 actually in Wales called Rockfield Studios and it's a country studio. 1:58:08.480 --> 1:58:12.360 So um, we were booked in to go there and 1:58:12.400 --> 1:58:16.840 we turned up and it's really rural. There's two studios 1:58:17.360 --> 1:58:19.520 and we're booked into the little studio and as we're 1:58:19.560 --> 1:58:22.800 turning up we're thinking, I wonder who's in the big, 1:58:22.840 --> 1:58:26.240 big studio. I want to watch stars there. It was 1:58:26.280 --> 1:58:29.680 the most unlikely thing, but Iggy Pop was there? What 1:58:29.720 --> 1:58:34.000 Iggy Pop in the Welsh country side? This is eight, 1:58:34.400 --> 1:58:38.560 not seventy nine. Maybe, um, Iggy pops there. We're all 1:58:38.560 --> 1:58:42.400 Iggy fans. We can't believe it, but you know, um, 1:58:42.800 --> 1:58:44.960 it turns out one of the guys in the band, 1:58:45.120 --> 1:58:49.720 Barry Andrews, we had met him on tour. He was 1:58:49.760 --> 1:58:51.680 a bit of a fan. So when the Eggy sessions 1:58:52.760 --> 1:58:55.040 we're finished, he would come over and tell us what 1:58:55.080 --> 1:59:00.440 was going on. And at the time Iggy was always 1:59:00.440 --> 1:59:03.880 getting the confused on the wagon. He was clean and 1:59:03.920 --> 1:59:08.360 he wasn't drinking, and he wasn't anything well until we 1:59:08.520 --> 1:59:12.440 turned up. That was because at midnight every night, it 1:59:12.520 --> 1:59:16.000 was always like a a cat creeping over the wall. 1:59:16.880 --> 1:59:18.360 He would come out of our place. And we were 1:59:18.400 --> 1:59:20.600 young guys. We brought a lot of things with us 1:59:20.600 --> 1:59:26.200 to the countryside, including pretty girls and and all the 1:59:26.240 --> 1:59:29.040 other goodies. And then he would come in every day 1:59:29.040 --> 1:59:30.320 and we just canna be like, you know, we just 1:59:30.360 --> 1:59:33.880 sit at the feet of James Austerberg and it just 1:59:33.880 --> 1:59:37.480 just agreed it. And one lady says something about, oh, well, 1:59:37.600 --> 1:59:42.840 David's coming up on Saturday, and we're sure, what I 1:59:42.840 --> 1:59:45.400 wonder if it's the David we're all thinking of, But yeah, 1:59:45.480 --> 1:59:51.160 David's coming up David's coming up again Saturday afternoon, said 1:59:51.160 --> 1:59:54.880 that's you know, there's a limit? Does a Bentley pulling 1:59:54.960 --> 2:00:00.560 up outside this country? Lane? Boy gets out. I think 2:00:00.600 --> 2:00:05.000 the album was being produced by M James. I forget 2:00:05.000 --> 2:00:08.520 the other guy's name from the studges um um anyway, 2:00:09.920 --> 2:00:12.600 without hours or punt of this chaos boys taken over 2:00:13.960 --> 2:00:16.840 and all manner of breaknast. We're hearing as kind of 2:00:16.920 --> 2:00:19.360 through the wall, but we don't think we're going to 2:00:19.440 --> 2:00:24.680 be pretty to any of it. And run about midnight, 2:00:25.600 --> 2:00:29.280 Eggie walks in again, and I can't believe it's a vision. 2:00:29.320 --> 2:00:32.960 It just seems so unlikely. Boys with them. He's wearing 2:00:33.000 --> 2:00:36.600 this black we call him boilers suit, like a kind 2:00:36.640 --> 2:00:41.280 of industrial suit. He's got a ton of hy nicking 2:00:41.840 --> 2:00:45.960 in his hand and a huge bit of shedar cheese. 2:00:47.240 --> 2:00:50.600 It's the most unlikely. And they came in and they're 2:00:50.640 --> 2:00:53.480 looking for something to smoke, and they're looking for and 2:00:53.560 --> 2:00:58.400 her crew have got plenty of that. And then Boy said, 2:00:58.600 --> 2:01:01.320 tell you what, asking what are you doing? What's this? 2:01:01.400 --> 2:01:04.480 He said, listen, we're working in this song and we 2:01:04.560 --> 2:01:07.160 need a chorus. We need like a football courtus, we 2:01:07.200 --> 2:01:09.800 need a chance, we need ten people, Why don't you 2:01:09.840 --> 2:01:13.240 all come in so we get to trip through into 2:01:13.240 --> 2:01:16.920 the next studio. I mean, can you imagine Bob none, none, 2:01:17.000 --> 2:01:19.040 None of us had a camera. No one had a camera. 2:01:19.120 --> 2:01:21.840 Back then, no one walked around with a camera. So 2:01:21.880 --> 2:01:24.680 we go in and Boie is very much taken over. 2:01:25.080 --> 2:01:28.480 It's a song called play It's safe. I mean, unless 2:01:28.480 --> 2:01:30.240 the record was there, I would still be thinking I 2:01:30.320 --> 2:01:34.280 was imagining all of this is so unlikely. But he 2:01:34.360 --> 2:01:37.480 guesses around the microphone and it's the chortus, and every 2:01:37.520 --> 2:01:41.880 wants to jump in and sing this quotas and bit 2:01:41.960 --> 2:01:44.240 by bit, but we start saying like people who don't 2:01:44.280 --> 2:01:49.280 sing professionally step back, and at the point there was 2:01:49.320 --> 2:01:53.080 only iggy boy, I can't believe I'm seeing this, and 2:01:53.120 --> 2:02:00.640 myself standing at the microphone. And as I say, if 2:02:00.640 --> 2:02:03.240 that record hadn't been released with the credits on it, 2:02:04.080 --> 2:02:07.000 I could see people thinking that never happened. But it 2:02:07.000 --> 2:02:10.040 did did happen. So that was a particularly great moment. 2:02:10.080 --> 2:02:12.600 But I think the moment that really tops it all 2:02:13.640 --> 2:02:17.400 was when we played At the time it was called 2:02:17.440 --> 2:02:24.080 the Nelson Mandela Birthday Parties seventieth birthday were they were 2:02:24.080 --> 2:02:27.760 still calling for his freedom, and we had a big 2:02:27.800 --> 2:02:29.680 part of that. We wrote a song for it and 2:02:29.760 --> 2:02:35.040 Lo and behold again. Less than a year later, Mandela 2:02:36.120 --> 2:02:39.360 walked out and he came to London to thank all 2:02:39.400 --> 2:02:42.880 the artists who were involved. And that was a really 2:02:42.920 --> 2:02:47.320 special moment because little Stephen Bonsan was there. Gabriel every 2:02:47.480 --> 2:02:48.960 you know, when you do those events and when you 2:02:49.000 --> 2:02:51.960 write those songs, you're fully committed, but there is a 2:02:52.040 --> 2:02:54.920 voice in your head saying does it matter? Does it 2:02:55.040 --> 2:03:00.600 really matter? Does can music really change? Were old events 2:03:01.960 --> 2:03:04.520 and to him and delacy he explained to all. He said, 2:03:04.560 --> 2:03:06.440 listen when it was a great thing. He said, when 2:03:06.480 --> 2:03:10.320 there was no voice allowed, we somehow always held the 2:03:10.400 --> 2:03:12.760 voice of the artist. Now that may have been the writers, 2:03:12.800 --> 2:03:19.600 the poets, the painters, the songwriters, and that was quite 2:03:19.760 --> 2:03:26.320 an amazing thing, um to be in the presence of him. Well, 2:03:26.360 --> 2:03:28.480 on that note, I think we're gonna call it a 2:03:28.600 --> 2:03:32.560 day today. Man, Jim, you're unbelievable, You're intelligent, you tell 2:03:32.600 --> 2:03:35.720 a great story. I could talk for hours more. I 2:03:35.760 --> 2:03:39.200 want to thank you so much for doing this My pleasure, Bob, 2:03:39.760 --> 2:03:42.120 keep up with good work. Love listening to the podcast. 2:03:42.160 --> 2:03:46.360 So many of the people you talked to, people who 2:03:46.400 --> 2:03:50.560 influenced me, or it's it's it's just wonderful. And also 2:03:50.880 --> 2:03:54.040 a few places where we can listen to this kind 2:03:54.040 --> 2:03:56.040 of thing. So I say that really is a fan 2:03:56.120 --> 2:04:00.160 of the show and and of the writings. Well, I'm 2:04:00.200 --> 2:04:03.760 smiling broadly. People can't see that on an audio podcast 2:04:03.920 --> 2:04:28.360 until next time. This is Bob Left sets h