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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Said Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Jim Kerr of Simple Minds. Jim,

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Speaker 1: so great to have you on the podcast. A reel

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Speaker 1: thrill the Pleasure's main, Bob. I've been a follower for

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Speaker 1: a long time, as you may well know, the ratings

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Speaker 1: and then eventually the podcast. So I'm really looking forward

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Speaker 1: to the chat and thrilled that you invited me. So

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Speaker 1: how do you end up living in Sicily? It's a

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Speaker 1: heck of a long story. Well, but it's really a

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Speaker 1: love affair that began with Italy. I was very fortunate

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Speaker 1: in the sense that my parents sent me on a

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Speaker 1: school trip to Italy when I was thirteen, and even then,

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Speaker 1: I mean compared to Glasgow, the city that I'm from,

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Speaker 1: growing up there in the sixties early seventies, I think

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Speaker 1: the best way to describe it is to see that

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Speaker 1: it was a monochrome existence. And as soon as I

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Speaker 1: got off on the plane in Italy, I discovered the

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Speaker 1: world was in color, and I said, well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: when I'm an old geezer, I'm gonna come and live

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Speaker 1: here in one day. I always had it in my mind. Um, however,

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Speaker 1: at the age of about twenty. We're very fortunate not

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Speaker 1: only to be in a band, but in a band

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Speaker 1: it was already getting quite a lot of traction throughout Europe.

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Speaker 1: Italy was one of the first places that embraced my band,

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Speaker 1: and I got to another country very well, north and south. Now,

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Speaker 1: the south is a different deal from the rest of

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Speaker 1: the country. Back then, everyone says, you don't want to

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Speaker 1: go be going down there. You don't want to be

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Speaker 1: playing down there. The Marfael steal your guitars and Marfa

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Speaker 1: will steal this. You live a horrible time. Well, we

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Speaker 1: went down at the time of our lives. And how

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Speaker 1: many years now, well, oh my gosh, thirty years more.

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Speaker 1: Um So, still he has been a part of my

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Speaker 1: life lately. I mean I am now fully Italian resident.

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Speaker 1: Brexit was a final straw for me there. I thought, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not being dragged out of Europe by some buffoon,

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Speaker 1: and so um I am. You could say I'm almost

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Speaker 1: Italian national, which not many people emigrate to Sicily. It's

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Speaker 1: usually a history of immigrating from Sicily. But I'm very

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Speaker 1: fortunate to people they had accepted me and the stories

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Speaker 1: within stories within stories, Okay, why Sicily as opposed to

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Speaker 1: shall we say the mainland? I think the best way

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Speaker 1: to say this. I mean it's a bit, a bit

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Speaker 1: of a vague word, but Sicily is cosmic. The history

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Speaker 1: of Sicily. I mean, that's what it all kicked off.

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Speaker 1: That's going back to, you know, way before the Romans,

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Speaker 1: It's the Greeks. It's an It's an amazing place. I mean,

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Speaker 1: where I am in Sicily, you could say that Africa's

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Speaker 1: probably nearer than Rome. So you've got that continental drift,

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Speaker 1: you've got all that history. I mean, it's mind boggling

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Speaker 1: and right in the middle of the island. And there's

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Speaker 1: a story there as well. Um, there's a huge volcano,

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Speaker 1: Mount Etna, that I see every day. Um my grandfather

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Speaker 1: used to talk about it. He was in the Highland Infantry.

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Speaker 1: He was insicially during the war and I think he

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Speaker 1: had the time of his life. Yeah, I think he

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Speaker 1: had a story there as well, because every time he

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Speaker 1: had a couple of whiskeys, he would go on about

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Speaker 1: how beautiful the Italian women were and how great the

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Speaker 1: Italian people. When I would say you were there in

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Speaker 1: the war, what about the fighting? He said? He said,

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Speaker 1: I didn't fight with anyone. Um, it's the greatest place.

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Speaker 1: And he kind of planted the seed, you know when

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Speaker 1: your kids and people are talking about volcanoes and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. I think he planted the seed. And all

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Speaker 1: these well, all these years later, Um, if only he

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Speaker 1: would know, if only he could have known how things

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Speaker 1: have ended up. So Um, there's a lot of thoughts

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Speaker 1: that I haven't quite joined them up. But that's only

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Speaker 1: the short answer. Now you own a hotel there, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Um, I think let me see a run

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Speaker 1: about where am I? Twenty years ago? Um, things weren't

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Speaker 1: looking too great for simple minds. I mean, the wheels

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Speaker 1: had come off, A new generation had come along. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's the expression you use. A lot or cheese had

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Speaker 1: been well and truly stolen. And to my songwriting partner Charlie,

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Speaker 1: he says, I only I only felt this way for

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Speaker 1: about two days, but I definitely felt plan bes needed now.

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Speaker 1: As I already said to you, Sis, Italy was in

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Speaker 1: my heart and I thought it was the time when

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Speaker 1: the career was going down the tubes, divorces and all

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Speaker 1: that it happened. I thought I'm going to go down

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Speaker 1: there for a year. Get the language see what evolves,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I thought, you know, we've been doing

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Speaker 1: this for ten twelve years. Even the Beatles couldn't make

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Speaker 1: it last more than ten years. I didn't want it

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Speaker 1: to the last moment. Ten years. I mean the other

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Speaker 1: thing we also felt, We didn't feel. We weren't embittered

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Speaker 1: or anything like. We felt no one knows is anything?

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Speaker 1: What a great time? Maybe that's it? So um all

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Speaker 1: that sounds very practical, but there is the other sage

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Speaker 1: you think, well, who am I? What am I going

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Speaker 1: to do? How do you be ex? Gim care? How

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Speaker 1: do you be how do you be ex simple? How

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Speaker 1: do you be an ex rock star? There's not really

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Speaker 1: a guidebook for that. But I thought, I'll go down

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Speaker 1: and I'll just maybe I was in my hemmingway face,

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Speaker 1: I'll go down and I'll be I'll fish for tuna,

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Speaker 1: I'll get the language, I'll fall in love. Well I

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Speaker 1: didn't fish for tuna. I did get the language, and

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Speaker 1: inevitably I felt in love. Was all as a woman involved,

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Speaker 1: as I'm not, um so, there's always a lover involved.

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Speaker 1: Um So, all of that came to be and I

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Speaker 1: was loving it. I was staying in this Uh, friends,

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Speaker 1: apartment the basement of his place, and I felt so

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Speaker 1: full of vitality and I thought this, this is the

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Speaker 1: place for me. And just as I was thinking that,

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Speaker 1: a piece of land became available next to us, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, hmm, bed and breakfast. Maybe I could make

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Speaker 1: that work because it had a planning permission now, and

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Speaker 1: from a family of builders as well, back in Glasgow.

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Speaker 1: And I spent a few years in building sites just

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Speaker 1: before getting into music. And you can imagine when I

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Speaker 1: told the bank manager back in Scotland, and when I

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Speaker 1: told our accountant that I was going to buy land

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Speaker 1: in Sicily and I was going to build what has

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Speaker 1: become a hotel. They said I was crazy. They said

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Speaker 1: it is the worst place. Italy was the worst place

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Speaker 1: in Europe to invest. Sicily was the worst place in

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Speaker 1: um Italy to invest. And I said, okay, I hear you,

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Speaker 1: I hear you, I hear you. I won't do it.

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Speaker 1: I got up pretty much the next day and signed

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Speaker 1: the papers and we haven't looked back. Okay, so why

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Speaker 1: build as opposed to just buy something? Well, the old

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Speaker 1: hotels they come with all these planning permisss. Sorry you

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Speaker 1: you can't get planning permissions you know, when you go

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Speaker 1: in those those old, ancient places, I mean, it's very

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Speaker 1: hard to make it work in terms of well, unless

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Speaker 1: you've got gazillions. This place was available with a certain

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Speaker 1: kind of planning permission for a certain kind of building.

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Speaker 1: Is not the most beautiful building, but it has the

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Speaker 1: most beautiful views. And that was a big, big part

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Speaker 1: of it. And obviously I had friends there as well,

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Speaker 1: a partner who shall we say, had all the right contacts,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I mean there's a whole book in

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Speaker 1: in that. But it wasn't all plane sailing. I mean

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Speaker 1: some nights I woke up in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: night in the colts were thinking what the heck have

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Speaker 1: I done here? But as soon as the place opened,

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Speaker 1: it's been open now twenty years. People go there with

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Speaker 1: people who content fifteen years on the trot. They love

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Speaker 1: it as much as I do. And it goes without saying.

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Speaker 1: I'm not involved in the running of it. Thank God

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Speaker 1: for that. It would be more like faulty Towers if

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Speaker 1: I was involved in the running of it. Um it's

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Speaker 1: run by professionals, and and we keep adding to it

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Speaker 1: as well. I have to say. During the two years

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Speaker 1: of pandemic. Obviously it was closed, and we keep adding

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Speaker 1: to it. I mean the futures calling though, I'll have

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Speaker 1: to decide the years to come. Just cause it's my

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Speaker 1: passion doesn't mean I says my kids passion, And you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to be here forever, so there are

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Speaker 1: decisions to be made. But but it's been great for

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Speaker 1: me um as much as it's great at the end

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Speaker 1: of the night when people come to a concert and

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Speaker 1: you send them home, happy, revitalized, you can imagine that equally.

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Speaker 1: So perhaps even more so the people that come on

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Speaker 1: holiday to a place and you you know, they came

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Speaker 1: in from London, or they come in from Stockholm, or

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Speaker 1: they came in from whatever, and you know they look

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Speaker 1: a bit gray and their shoulders are down, and a

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Speaker 1: week later they're full of color and revitalized. And uh,

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Speaker 1: to be of service is a great thing. So how

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Speaker 1: many rooms does it have and how many people can

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Speaker 1: stay at one time? Well, we when we started it

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Speaker 1: was fourteen that was the original planning. We're up to

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Speaker 1: just just under fifty now, so yeah, mostly double rooms.

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Speaker 1: And where do you live? I live nearby. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's that thing I don't go in every day because

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Speaker 1: you go in every day you just see things that

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Speaker 1: are wrong. People are having a whale of a time,

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Speaker 1: but you justly see things that are wrong, and you

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Speaker 1: think I told you to fix this last week or

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Speaker 1: you know, or haven't we got that together yet? I

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Speaker 1: mean that makes me sound like I'm a perfectionist. I'm not.

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Speaker 1: And then I look around and actually see people chilled

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Speaker 1: and having a great, great time, and I think, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not so bad. I mean it's not. I've

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Speaker 1: gotta see. It's not some rock star seehy hotel. It's

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Speaker 1: a nice place. It's got sold. Um, people feel good

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Speaker 1: sitting there and um. So you know, sometimes I do

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Speaker 1: a blitz. I go in when they're at least expecting me.

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Speaker 1: I don't tell them when I'm going in. Let's go

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Speaker 1: back to your inspiration for building it at the moment

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Speaker 1: you thought Simple Minds was reaching the end of its life.

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Speaker 1: If Simple Minds had reached the end of its line,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing financially? Obviously need something to occupy

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Speaker 1: your time. But if you were, you set for life

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Speaker 1: when Simple Minds was, you know, up in the air. Well,

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Speaker 1: we were very fortunate because we've been looked after I

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Speaker 1: have to see. I mean, um, we've done well, particularly

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Speaker 1: the last say that was twelve years up until that

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Speaker 1: time of thinking maybe the game's up here behalf of that.

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Speaker 1: It was very lucrative. Um but as you know, a

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Speaker 1: divorce here and a divorce there on a tax bell here,

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Speaker 1: an attax bill there. But since I was young, I'd

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Speaker 1: always made pretty good investments as well and properties, and um,

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Speaker 1: we really had been looked after well. Good accountant. A

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Speaker 1: woman called Sandra Dodds who was probably more like miss

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Speaker 1: Jean Brodies you more like a headmistress to us, who

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Speaker 1: kept us on a straight and narrow you know. She

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Speaker 1: would tell you, what do you need two cars for?

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Speaker 1: Are you crazy? What are you talking about? A boat?

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Speaker 1: What's this? What's that? And she would basically kick her ass.

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Speaker 1: And at the time she would talk about pensions. When

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Speaker 1: we were you know, we would only twenty two and

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Speaker 1: you think, penchion, I'll never be sixty five, Well I'll

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Speaker 1: be sixty three next month. Um. So um yeah, if

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Speaker 1: we would have been we would have been okay, had

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Speaker 1: we remained sensible. So we're in an era where people

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Speaker 1: are selling their rights. Do you still own all your rights?

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Speaker 1: Just recently up until just recently above UM, but no,

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Speaker 1: we have now sold their rights very recently. So what

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Speaker 1: happened recently? It was time there was an offer there.

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Speaker 1: It was time we looked at what the publishing had

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Speaker 1: been bringing in. We looked at the offer, We looked

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Speaker 1: at how we could be intelligent. UM. The way we

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Speaker 1: set that up over about a period of two years.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot of back and forth. We thought

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Speaker 1: about our kids, We thought about investments that we have

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Speaker 1: and how we could possibly do better. We considered everything.

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Speaker 1: It was time as basically the answer, and who did

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Speaker 1: you sell to? B MG? And did you sell a

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Speaker 1: hundred percent? Or do you still retain anything we sold?

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Speaker 1: And that's the publishing. What about the record royalties? The

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Speaker 1: records now they're they're still there, But of course we

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Speaker 1: don't own our records. We get the royalties, as you say,

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Speaker 1: but I don't own them. So what do you do

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Speaker 1: with the money. I haven't done anything yet, Bob. You

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Speaker 1: know about some training shoes last week. I guess what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying is, when you have publishing, they pay you

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Speaker 1: every six months. Probably your deal with be even though

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Speaker 1: they can not to pay of what your rode and

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Speaker 1: then then you get a check, you pay the taxes

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Speaker 1: and then you can put it in the stock market.

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Speaker 1: You can leave it in cash. So you know, have

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Speaker 1: you just left it in cash waiting to see or

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Speaker 1: you invested it. It's so recent and we have conversations

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Speaker 1: about it every week about what's the next move. But

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Speaker 1: guarantee we won't be going and spending it on post cars,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. What Scotsman. So why does Scots have

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Speaker 1: the reputation of being cheap? Is that real? No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: That's something to do with Walt Disney. I think one

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Speaker 1: of those cartoon things where you and um, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but uh and my experience that is not. But we

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Speaker 1: like to play up to it. We like to have

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Speaker 1: fun with with that. Um. But it's certainly not real. Okay. So,

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Speaker 1: prior to Brexit, Scotland was constantly talking about seceding from

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Speaker 1: the UK. Now subsequent to Brexit they're talking again. What's

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Speaker 1: your take on that? I mean, it is a strange thing.

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Speaker 1: We grew up to tell you, it was really we

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Speaker 1: grew up in a place industrial Britain and everyone in

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Speaker 1: Glasgow really there was only one party for us. It

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Speaker 1: was the Labor Party. But that was the industrial age,

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Speaker 1: and of course you could see the political figure who

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Speaker 1: presided over most of her my generation's career was none

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Speaker 1: other than Margaret Thatcher, who a lot of the working

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Speaker 1: class would say was a nemesis. I mean, my take

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Speaker 1: on it was that a lot of those old industries

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Speaker 1: people had stolen their cheese as well. Globalization came, shipbuilding

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Speaker 1: could be done elsewhere, iron could be done elsewhere, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of these places didn't move with the times.

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Speaker 1: And then they were left the industries needing constant subsidies.

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Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher comes along and said, no, no, no, those

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Speaker 1: days are gone. We're going to close all of this now. Again,

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Speaker 1: in a practical sense, comes to business, you would say, well,

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Speaker 1: that's the way it goes. But there were communities left overnight.

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Speaker 1: Not even any empathy. I mean, I know you have

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Speaker 1: that in the States as well. Just nothing. Um so

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Speaker 1: she everyone I grew up with in Glasgow. I don't

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Speaker 1: think hate is too strong a work to you. They

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Speaker 1: hated her and they couldn't wait for the dawning of

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Speaker 1: new labor. A new labor finally came with Tony Blair,

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Speaker 1: Gordon Brown and people in my generation thought okay, we'll

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Speaker 1: see a much more sympathetic, we'll see a much more

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Speaker 1: intelligent But I have to see from my perspective the

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Speaker 1: time they came in within weeks it looked like that

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Speaker 1: was a fallacy as well. Basically the right and left

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Speaker 1: they had all come into the center, into the middle,

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Speaker 1: and in the case of Scotland, in the case of Glasgow,

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Speaker 1: most of the population of Scotland's in the central belt.

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Speaker 1: They turned their back on labor the war as well,

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Speaker 1: and this idea that Blair was bushes puddle didn't go

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Speaker 1: down well and the Scottish Nationals started to play a

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Speaker 1: card then and everyone almost as a protest vote, because

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Speaker 1: you know, no one was really thinking about what's the

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Speaker 1: currency going to be as the oil going to run out.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was just saying, we want nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: these people in ten Downing Street anymore. And to a

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Speaker 1: degree that's still the case. I mean, the true nationalists

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Speaker 1: will tell you that Scotland can exists in the same

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Speaker 1: way Denmark and Norway in Finland do. But let's be honest, Norway,

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Speaker 1: Denmark and Finland have had a long time to practice

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Speaker 1: at in Norway, Denmark, in Finland, you can't just turn

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Speaker 1: it over night. I there would be a general look

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Speaker 1: at the upheaval with Brexit. I mean there would be

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Speaker 1: another colossal upheaval. Um. People would really have to think

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Speaker 1: about that. I don't know if they do. I mean

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Speaker 1: what we really wouldn't need. I think with respect to

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Speaker 1: the people that's in charge, they're just now you would

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Speaker 1: need a supervisionary to pull that off with some applume.

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Speaker 1: I don't see that supervisionary from where I'm standing. But

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Speaker 1: you've got to remember I'm not there anymore. I'm in Italy.

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Speaker 1: So you talk about living in Italy. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: been exposed for a long time of people who are

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Speaker 1: tax exiles from the UK. The stones other acts are

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Speaker 1: their tax advantages? Do you live in Italy? I mean

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Speaker 1: a lot of the European countries now have incentives, but

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Speaker 1: but I would still pay a lot more tax in

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Speaker 1: itly than most Italian people. Okay, And just to be

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Speaker 1: very specific, irrelevant of Scotland's place in this, what do

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Speaker 1: you think of Brexit? Oh? Horrendous? I mean, no one

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Speaker 1: really took it serious. That's the problem. No one took

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Speaker 1: it serious. Um, And we woke up that day I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think I think I'm rating seeing this. The biggest

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Speaker 1: disappointment I believe i'm rating seeing is the demograph young

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Speaker 1: kids didn't turn out to vote, ironically, and it was

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Speaker 1: their future that was a stake why they didn't turn

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Speaker 1: out to vote. Um, the anti Brexit movements they put together.

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Speaker 1: There was no campaign that she thought this is a joke,

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Speaker 1: it'll go away. And and I think we heard that

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Speaker 1: about Trump as well, did we not leading up to it?

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Speaker 1: This is a joke, This isn't gonna happen, This is

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Speaker 1: not gonna be um. I mean, everyone seemed to be

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Speaker 1: against him, the media, tech, you name it. Everyone was

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Speaker 1: against him. It seemed apart from a lot of people

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Speaker 1: on the ground who wanted to kick out at something.

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Speaker 1: That's what it looks like Brexit. And I would imagine

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Speaker 1: there'll be some parallels with the Trump voughte. Okay, now

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Speaker 1: you know there's all kinds of issues with visas and equipment.

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Speaker 1: Now in terms of your being members and equipment, are

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Speaker 1: you sourcing that all from Europe? Or do you have

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Speaker 1: VC issues? Are you caught up in the Brexit world.

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Speaker 1: They tell me it's been a nightmare. They tell me

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Speaker 1: everything is ten times harder. Um, that's coming from you know,

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Speaker 1: our production guys. I mean even today I have to say,

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Speaker 1: it's like a whole catalog and stuff you've got to

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Speaker 1: deal with. Um. I came off a bus today, fourteen

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Speaker 1: hour drive from Luzanne. Now you said, well do you

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Speaker 1: have to take the bus? No, normally we wouldn't with

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Speaker 1: that kind of drive. But traveling just now anywhere between

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Speaker 1: just as chaos. Some air travel and airports trying to

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Speaker 1: get their act together after the pandemic. But also I

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Speaker 1: mean even getting on a plane two weeks ago to Oslow.

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Speaker 1: When we turned up in Oslo, people were UK passports.

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Speaker 1: We were in a queue with everyone else for about

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Speaker 1: fifty minutes just trying to get into Oslow on on

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Speaker 1: an otherwise quiet Wednesday afternoon. Whereas for the last well,

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Speaker 1: all my entire life you just walked through. Um, so

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Speaker 1: it's it's still um. It just seems a real message.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like, um, well, as you know, the slogan

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Speaker 1: for Brexit was just get it done, and it sounds

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Speaker 1: like as though that was all that was going to count.

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Speaker 1: There was no thought about and what's next, and what's

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Speaker 1: next and what's next? So um, everyone's left, everyone who

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Speaker 1: was traveling, everyone who does business internationally with Europe um

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Speaker 1: as paying the cost right now, you know, and something, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it'll get sorted, it'll get sorted. But I don't see

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Speaker 1: any rush towards that. I don't even know what it means. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have to see I spend my time in Europe.

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Speaker 1: Of course I live in Europe, most of our friends.

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Speaker 1: I find the whole thing embarrassing. So you talk about

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Speaker 1: this moment approximately twenty years ago we said, hey, is

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Speaker 1: there a future for simple minds? What turned you around? Said?

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Speaker 1: There is a future? Well, funny enough, probably probably about

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Speaker 1: two years after turning up in Sicily and thinking those thoughts, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, nothing seemed to be on our side with

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Speaker 1: without a record deal, we're without a publishing deal, without management. Um.

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Speaker 1: I really felt this is this is going to be

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Speaker 1: a tough one. No one in the media was interested.

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Speaker 1: But there was a couple of things came along. An

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Speaker 1: amazing thing social network where if you were a band

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Speaker 1: and you would fans still in the world, you could

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Speaker 1: talk to them direct, so you could say there was

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Speaker 1: a glimmer of hope there. But actually what happened was

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Speaker 1: the phone started to ring if you're a good band,

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Speaker 1: if you're a great band, and I would like to

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Speaker 1: think we're certainly the former, and we challenged to be

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Speaker 1: the latter. Every night it seemed the phone would ring,

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Speaker 1: people started asking us to play. Now. The thing was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but how are we going to play what kind of things?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to be disparaging, but we

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Speaker 1: didn't want to do those eighties kind of sad you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, all these eighties acts bundled together.

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Speaker 1: We definitely didn't want to do that. Um, So we

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Speaker 1: turned a lot of things down. But what we did

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Speaker 1: do was we started to write songs again. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the big, the real big thing was at that point

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Speaker 1: you find out who you really are. And I'll say

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Speaker 1: to you like this, if you're in the back of

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Speaker 1: a van or mini boss driving past the stadium that

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Speaker 1: you once sold out, on route to a club that

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Speaker 1: is not sold out, you really find out a lot

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Speaker 1: about yourself. First thing you find out if you've got

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Speaker 1: the stomach to continue, you ask why you do it?

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Speaker 1: And he said, well, what's the answer to that. I

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Speaker 1: remember when I was a kid looking at the old

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Speaker 1: blues guys. I think, you know, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: those guys didn't even get paid initially for the longest time.

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Speaker 1: John Ley Hooker and Chuck Berry and those guys didn't

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Speaker 1: eventually be be king. But you looked at them and

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Speaker 1: they were the only old guys then, and it was

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Speaker 1: written on their face why they did it. It's who

404
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: they are. Well, we found out then that that's also

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Speaker 1: who we were. We were by that time, twenty were

406
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Speaker 1: by that time fifteen years in. How do you stop

407
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Speaker 1: writing songs when that's what you've done since you were thirteen?

408
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: You somehow have to silence the voices that are telling

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Speaker 1: you this is pointless. It's never gonna be the same,

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Speaker 1: It's never gonna be what it was. And you have

411
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Speaker 1: to decide what are we gonna do here? Are we

412
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Speaker 1: gonna go around like just punch drunk boxers because we

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Speaker 1: don't know what else to do, or are we gonna

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Speaker 1: recome it like we did when we were kids. Now,

415
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Speaker 1: when you're a kid and there's nothing else in your life,

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Speaker 1: you're eighteen, you're seventeen, you commit everything that nothing else

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Speaker 1: in your life. You can't believe you're getting the chance

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Speaker 1: to make music night. Indeed, that's all we ever wanted

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Speaker 1: to do we've got a record deal. Finally that was possible.

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Speaker 1: But then you know, you get older and you've got

421
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Speaker 1: a room in your life or other kids, success comes along,

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Speaker 1: you've got some money. You you know, you're living a

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Speaker 1: much softer um. Are you gonna You've gotta turn your

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Speaker 1: back and all that and going to a crappy old

425
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: rehearsal room again and re engage and going there Monday,

426
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: if Friday and work through. Back to the songs, back

427
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: to try and make the band great again, back to

428
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: finding a great manager, back to finding a great age

429
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: And are you really going to engage when you don't

430
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: have to because you've got enough pastor you've got enough

431
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: of I mean, you know there's billionaires out there, but

432
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate as much that at the time in

433
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: my life. I've always felt rich because I always felt

434
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: I had enough. And when I say I had enough,

435
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: it's more than people I want to school. So the

436
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: thing was, can we engage? Can we really try and

437
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: draw something out of ourselves here? And that's what we

438
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: decided to do. We were flat lining. We had to

439
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: get up, we had to get off the table. We

440
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: had to we had to get the ignition going again.

441
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: We had to we had to turn the cat around,

442
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: get it going in the right direction, and then we

443
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: had to find out how many miles we could take

444
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: it down the road. And well, here we are whatever

445
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: fifteen eighteen years later, and it's gone down the road

446
00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: and it's gone great. Okay, Simple Minds has been through

447
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: many personnel changes and the two continuusing members of yourself

448
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: and Charlie Burchill. When you said you got an inspiration

449
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: to write songs, was that something individually? Did you call

450
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: up Charlie? Did Charlie get ahold of you first? What

451
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: actually happened? Well, I've known Charlie since we're eight years old.

452
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: We're both from Glasgow, we're both from southside of Glasgow. Um.

453
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: At the age of it, we moved into this new

454
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: housing ski well you call them housing projects, but as

455
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: a housing scheme, a high rise, high rise apartment which

456
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: they just started building in the major cities and the

457
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: UK and particularly Glasgow. I mean those buildings quite soon

458
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: got a bad raw, but we loved them anyway. The

459
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: first day literally moving in, my mother said, you know,

460
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: as you did at that time, only want one brother,

461
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: she said, get out and play, going out and discover

462
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. Now they were still building this housing project

463
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: cement sand bricks, and we went down the street and

464
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: there was these kids playing on this huge sand castle

465
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: and the kids sitting at the top. I later discovered

466
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: his name was Charlie Burchell, and we said, um, you know,

467
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: can we play? Yeah, you can play, let's play. So

468
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: that was the first time I met Charlie. But the

469
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: real key moment with Charlie was, and I remember this

470
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: clearer than he does apparently, was but three years after that,

471
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: at the age of eleven. Um, you remember this because

472
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: they I think it was an idea that came from

473
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: the States. Do you remember, Um remember with cigarette packs

474
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: you got coupons and if you if you saved them up,

475
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: you could there was a g catalog. Well, Charlie's mom

476
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: saved up a ton of Embassy coupons and she got

477
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: charlie six string Spanish guitar. And I still say to

478
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: this day, if Mrs Burshell hadn't done that, you know,

479
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: I'd be driving a taxi. But I remember Charlie getting

480
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: because he was the first kid I knew that had

481
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: a guitar, and it was a summer's night he was

482
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: in the street with that. Everyone was looking around um

483
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: and it seemed like within a few months he could

484
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: play t Rex songs, she could play boys songs. He

485
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: could and you know, to me, it was just it

486
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: was magical. And that's really how we how we started

487
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: to hang out. I mean we were in the same

488
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: class at school. There was a few of it. Everyone

489
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: was starting to get into music, but there was a

490
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: few of us who were really into it at that time,

491
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: the same time, age or twelve ago. My first job disgusting, really,

492
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: but my mother got me a job cleaning the back

493
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: store of a butcher's shop, amongst all the blood and crap.

494
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. The first week I got paid

495
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: five pounds, well five pounds. Then to give you, they

496
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: give you some perspective. I bought my first concert ticket

497
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: sixty pence and it was for the matenee of David Bowie.

498
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: Ziggy started us tour. Now sixty pence had five pounds.

499
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: I was Frank Sinatra. I could take you an album

500
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: cost one twenty and pretty soon I had this huge

501
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: album collection that matched Charlie's Elder Brothers collection, and him

502
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: and I would swap and we would be everything from

503
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: Bowie to Roxy Lou Read, all the prog rock stuff, Um,

504
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: Alice Cooper, the Doors just we're told a lot of

505
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: people you've had on the show, Todd Rungren Sparks, Um,

506
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: on and on, and there was a few other guys

507
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: in class as well that had that same overwhelming passion

508
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: and really simple minds grew out of that. Okay, let's

509
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. So what were the circuits dances?

510
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: Financially if you growing up, what did your parents do

511
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: for a living? How many kids in the family. Well,

512
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: my parents were my dad was he worked in construction.

513
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: My dad or my uncles there were some of them

514
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: were tradesmen, some of them laborers. So it was building sites,

515
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: cement and sometimes a Saturday if he was building a

516
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: garage for someone or we would go and help and

517
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: would get some extra pocket money. But we grew up

518
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: with those kind of physical guys. Um and Mom on

519
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: the other hand, she was from a family of nine.

520
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: All the interesting thing was being in Glasgow were obviously Scotts,

521
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: but Glasgow is such a strong Irish community. Grandparents on

522
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: both sides were Irish, so it was almost brought up

523
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: with an Irish culture inside of Scotland, so we weren't

524
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: quite sure who we were. We knew that London seemed

525
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: the long place away. Um we weren't Irish because it

526
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 1: was real Irish people, but we were definitely brought up

527
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: with this culture. Mom she was a machinist. She was

528
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: she worked in the factories, heavy garmentree police uniforms, army uniforms,

529
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: hard working girls. And I was thinking today because you

530
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: know I was, I knew were going to speak. And

531
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: my earliest music memory was Mom would get paid once

532
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: a month and my aunt would take us up to

533
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: meet her at lunchtime. And two things great about that

534
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: was would go to this car where we had nicker

535
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: Boker Glories which were just wow ice cream and fruits.

536
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: And then she would go to the record shop and

537
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: she would buy a single, usually the Beatles, um, sometimes

538
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones, and we go home and she'd put

539
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: it on, she'd dance, and um, that was the first

540
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: music I was conscious of. On that side, he was

541
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: also a big, big music fan. He liked people like

542
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: fat Dominos. He liked a lot of the country stuff

543
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: we called the country and Western then Patty Lane, Jim Reeves,

544
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: all of that stuff really big in Scotland, Johnny cash

545
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: Um and a lot of Irish rebel songs. So that

546
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: was that was the kind of music that that was

547
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: the background. People would work hard, they would enjoy themselves

548
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: on a Friday and Saturday night singing and dancing. Glass

549
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: was still like that. People Glass region spend their money.

550
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: Edinburgh's old money. Um, they hold on to it. That's

551
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: the cliche. But Glasgow, and it's the time I grew up,

552
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: it had more dance halls than anywhere else in Britain.

553
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: People just love to have a ball. If probably Glasgow probably,

554
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: I mean to your American audience, if you could imagine

555
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: probably Detroit or New Jersey type of environment. Okay, so

556
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: how many kids in the family. Well, there's two brothers. Um.

557
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: I was the eldest. I am the oldest. UM. But

558
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: the interesting thing was you'll find this interesting because you

559
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: you mentioned the band. But at the age of five,

560
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: kid upstairs from us, because we lived in a tenement.

561
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: Then kid upstairs his parents split up and it was

562
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: kind of odd. It was very odd at that time,

563
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: it was unheard of, but it was his Motherhoo had

564
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: left and he was left. He was loved with it

565
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: dad and as dad remember his dad coming down. I

566
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: remember clearly there was a bit of a commotion and

567
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: basically my mom said his name was Joe Joseph was

568
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 1: going to be coming for lunch and dinner and and

569
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: he might be staying for us with us for a while,

570
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: and which he started great. Another friend, Joe was already

571
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: my my friend. Well, Joe stayed with us for about

572
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: the next fourteen years. And Joe also was in a

573
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: band called The Silences, who you mentioned just recently. Another

574
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: music fan. Another another one who wasn't prepared just to

575
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: listen to records, wanted to actually get around to making them.

576
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: So essentially it was like four boys eventually four boys

577
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: and uh and the one one family. What kind of

578
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: kid were you? Were you popular? Did you do well

579
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: in school? How did it end with school? I think,

580
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: going back, the first thing that really marked me out

581
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: young I had a very quite pronounced speech impediment, a

582
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: stutter or stammer. There was no one else at school

583
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: had that, and I wasn't bullied or anything like like that,

584
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna go down that that road. But yeah,

585
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, people got used to that. But whenever I

586
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: went outside of you could say my safety nead of

587
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: people who knew me, I would I would be quiet.

588
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: I was very quiet, and I think I realized this

589
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: later on. UM being being quiet forced me to have this.

590
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: I think I also had a great inner dialogue. And

591
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: I also made me listen much more to people, because

592
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: if you're not talking, you're listening, or you should be,

593
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: or you're noticing. And only recently I thought, God, that's

594
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: that helped me a lot, you know, in terms of

595
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: being a writer or or UM. At the time, it

596
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: didn't seem to be an advantage. But anyway, it was

597
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: super announced that, you know, they wanted to send me

598
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: to UM, a different school, and my mother was having

599
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: none of that. UM. But other than that, I was popular.

600
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: I was popular at school. I was kind of I

601
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: was pretty bright as well. I mean when I when

602
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: I tried, I would I would get casual one year.

603
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: The pressure would be on to do well, and I

604
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: would do well, and then I'd get casual the next

605
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 1: year and the results would go down. So I enjoyed school,

606
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: I am. The teachers were great, as I said to

607
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: you earlier, even on a school trip to Italy. The

608
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: age at thirteen. You know that teachers would take us

609
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: there and show us the world um or begin what

610
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: became a hunger to see the world. So I was

611
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: I enjoyed. I I really enjoyed school, enjoyed the cameraderie. Um.

612
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: But the big thing was going back to Dad. That

613
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: was a construction worker. As I said, you know, it

614
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: was all about the pubs after work. And but the

615
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: one thing so different from Dad and all his mates

616
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: was he was a reader, a real reader, educated himself.

617
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: And I remember him taking me to the first library

618
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: when I was six and getting me signed up and

619
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: him telling me, you don't know what you've got in

620
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: your hand. Well, the first thing you told me. He

621
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: was so proud because the local library, the local library

622
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: was funded by Carnegie, who everyone in America, of course

623
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: is aware of Carnegie and what he did there. But

624
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: he was a Scotsman from dun Firm one. He told me,

625
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: this man has done this, He's built these libraries. What

626
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: you have in here, this is a golden ticket. Kids

627
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: around the world would die or have this. And I

628
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: remember him, and boy was he right. I mean he

629
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: was he was banging on there. So that's a kind

630
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: of that's the kind of background. Okay, I'm six years

631
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: older than you, so what do I remember. I remember

632
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: we had transistor radios, we were listening to sports. We're

633
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: kind of aware of the uh, you know, the popular music.

634
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 1: Then the we all wanted to be athletes. The Beatles

635
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: came along. Everything changed. Everybody bought a guitar, everybody wanted

636
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: to be in a band. So when you grew up,

637
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: you talked about meeting Charlie etcetera. Did you think you're

638
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: gonna be a musician or did you think you're gonna

639
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: be somebody else? And when did you say this is it?

640
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: This is what I'm gonna do. Well, no, I mean

641
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: you've been six years older. You you remember the Beatles,

642
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: you know, appear on TV. For the first thing, for me,

643
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: the Beatles were more my mom's thing, even though because

644
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, they were just your mom and dad danced

645
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: to them, and so it wasn't until for me it

646
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: was seeing Mark Boling where that was the first thing

647
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: that I thought, this is main Mark Bowland appeared on

648
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: top of the Pops and you know it was like

649
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: the coming of Jesus. Well we thought it was Jesus,

650
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: but it was probably more John the Baptist Jesus was

651
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: still come. That was ziggy Stardust. But seeing Bowling, Uh,

652
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: that's when we started buying our own records, not our

653
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: modern dad's records, are not our big big Brothers records.

654
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: This was our thing and that was something. But it

655
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: really began with a life thing because having the money

656
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: to go to concerts. Now, um I told you about

657
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: you know the boy ticket that the the other great

658
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: memory was seeing um you know when you turned up

659
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: and for some reason, tours with start in Glasgow. I

660
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: think the agents would say send them up there. You

661
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: know whoever it is, the Glasgow audience is a great

662
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: one to get a start with. Well, I remember it

663
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: would go like this. Let's say it was Genesis with

664
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: Sell in England by by the Pound. They would be

665
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: on the whistle Test. They agree whistle Test, which was

666
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: our rock program on a Tuesday night. The Wednesday, I

667
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: think Enemy would come up on the train from London,

668
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: so we had the New Musical Express talking about the

669
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: tour coming. Thursday would be Sounds, the next magazine Friday

670
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: would be Melody Maker. All this build up and tours

671
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: would begin on a Friday night and usually I would

672
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: be there in those years. But I like telling people

673
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: this story. This is I really looked out. There was

674
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: a kid in my class who said to me, you

675
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: know you're gonna know all this muse all this weird stuff,

676
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: gigs and all that. He said, I can get you

677
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: into any gig you want to go to, which is

678
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: quite a statement. And I said, how come? He said,

679
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: my brothers the head of security at the was the

680
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 1: Glasgow Greens. Then I can get into any gig. I said,

681
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: your kid, yeah, let's school. And indeed we went and

682
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: his brother would open the door and we we got

683
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: to see the Stones come through, Bob Marley came through,

684
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: you name it, um Zeppelin, the Who. And then eventually

685
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: his brother took quite a shaming to me. He said,

686
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: you're really into this. I tell you what. Um, sometimes

687
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: we need a few kids to run out and get

688
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 1: beer and cigarettes and all this for the bands, and

689
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: you know, like a runner, you know, come up and

690
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: you can do so. We then got to see sound

691
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: checks and we got to watch on the side. We

692
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: were just just kids and my There's there's a lot

693
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: of stories that came from that, but the one I

694
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: like telling the best is that the band that I

695
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: loved at that moment, I really loved them as a

696
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: band called Mott the Hoople. I know you you. I

697
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: think they're spoken to Ian and they were my band.

698
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: And he said, well, you know, Thursday night, Mott the

699
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: Hoople come up after school. I didn't even he didn't

700
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: even go to school. I ran up. I remember getting

701
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: the bus into town and the head of the road

702
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: cruise said, no, not the Hoople aren't gonna sound check. Uh,

703
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: they're doing Top of the Pops. They're not doing a

704
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: sound check. Um, go over there and help the support band,

705
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: help the drummer. And I said, who's the support band?

706
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: And he shrugged and went, I don't know. A band

707
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: called Queen. And so I remember clearly being on the

708
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: stage and then it just before Queen had come through

709
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: with seven seas Awry, Freddie was already in the suit,

710
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: the black and white suit. I already knew on hearing

711
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: the guitar, what what is this? And so I stood

712
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: by that night and watched Queen Blowmat the Hoople off

713
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: the stage like like there was no stage, that's just

714
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: one and ignored. But in some ways it was like

715
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: this is getting to your question. And someone was like

716
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: it was amazing education. Did I look at Freddie Mercury

717
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: or David Bowie and think I could do that? Not

718
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: at all. Did I look at that world and think

719
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: I've got to get involved with that world somehow? Yes

720
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: I did. I would have been happy to be in

721
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: a roadie. I would have been happy to be in

722
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: a tour manager. I've been happy to being a manager.

723
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: And um, it didn't dawn on me someone with a stutter,

724
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: a starmer who was afraid to stand up in reading class.

725
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: Why would you throw yourself in at the front plane

726
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: and make an absolute laughing stock yourself. No, that wasn't

727
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: on the agenda. Okay, I've never been to Scotland. Actually

728
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: is Scotland? I mean it's not wouldn't be identical to

729
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: Kenna the United States, but some countries, even though they

730
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: bud each other, it's like having a glass wall and

731
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: you look at the other side. Was Scotland fluid with

732
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: London and UK saying oh yeah, I know, to mere

733
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: Chest or wherever it was that like a big leap.

734
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: Well again, it's funny enough it was. It was a

735
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: big leap. London was a hell of a leap, you know.

736
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: And of course not so much in Scotland, but you

737
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: became aware as you get older of a class system

738
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: now already explained to you that this is a phenomenal figure. Um,

739
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: we were from manual workers. The percentage of people in

740
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: Glasgow who went to university that came from parents who

741
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: were manual workers is something like not point three percent.

742
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: So there was this feeling of oh, we just don't

743
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: do that stuff. That's the class system, that's the way

744
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: all above us. We're gonna have to find some other hustle.

745
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: And so there was we we you know, and then

746
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: people with those plumbing accents and Eaton and Oxford and

747
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: Cambridge and all of that stuff that could have been Mars. However,

748
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: there was a kinship with people in Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham

749
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: who who were all in the same kind of industries.

750
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 1: There was a kinship there. But the biggest thing, you know,

751
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: transformative events in my life, one of the greatest things.

752
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: People don't do it anymore. We discovered at the age

753
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: of fourteen this thing called hitchhiking, where if you went

754
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: down to the motorway and stuck out your thumb you

755
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 1: could go on some kind of adventure. And indeed both

756
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: Charlie and I started to do that quite a lot.

757
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: Initially it was hit shaking too. There must have been

758
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: a year when the local venues in Glasgow we're getting

759
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: re refurbished or something. So the bands we wanted to

760
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: see where coming north that was stopping at Newcastle. Let's

761
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: hit shake down to Newcastle and see aggy pop and

762
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: we would hitch shakedown I mean lesson two hundred miles.

763
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: But of course when you got there sometimes you didn't

764
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: even see the gig, but you met someone that became friends,

765
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: a whole other adventure. It it's um. It was almost

766
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: like for a lot of people the world ends at

767
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: the bottom of your street, but for us, the world

768
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: began at the bottom of our street. And I remember

769
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: getting this is quite cute a letter from a friend

770
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: who had moved to London, and he said, there's this

771
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: thing called punk rock, the Sex Pistols, and it plays

772
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: every week. You've got to get down and see this

773
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: hitch hikedown. You can stay with me. Now, what year

774
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,479
Speaker 1: woul dat have been? We already had were already sort

775
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: of tuning into the ramons Paris Smith's first album. We

776
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: knew about this punk thing, but up until then it

777
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: was a New York thing. New York that was of

778
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: course prior, but this English punk thing, the Stranglers. We

779
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: heard John Peele was starting to play the Stranglers and

780
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: we could really feel somehow the gates were opening something else.

781
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: So Charlie and I hitch hiked down all the way

782
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: to London and we started to see these bands at

783
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: the Marquee and and hoping anchor Elvis Crystello playing UM

784
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: and Enemy was starting to rate about this stuff. And

785
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: I remember, after going, I think I want to see

786
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: Elvis Corstello in It was a tiny pub and it

787
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: was it was electrifying, you know, he was just so wired.

788
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: The band was so wired. And then on the way

789
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: back it was the first ever festival I want Bob

790
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: Dylan was playing in Black Bush at the Clapton and

791
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: with the greatest respect, I couldn't relate to it anymore.

792
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: After seeing Elvis Costello pumped up and playing those I

793
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: just we that's where it is. After seeing the Stranglers,

794
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: that's where it is. Um it's really m And of

795
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: course before we knew it, this um let's call it

796
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 1: the punk Revolution had cutlet wildfire through the UK and

797
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: for the first time. It really was the the lunatics

798
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: had taken over the asylum in a way that I

799
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: could never imagine before. Before we knew it, kids like

800
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: us were starting bands. Kids like us, we're starting fashion labels,

801
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: kids like us were making documentary, starting fanzines. Suddenly it

802
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: felt like m It felt like the shackles were off.

803
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: It didn't matter what school you went to. It didn't

804
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: matter if you had a rich daddy, it didn't matter

805
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: if if you had a manager in London. And the

806
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: liberation of all that set certainly set me on course,

807
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: and people are my A lot of artists from my

808
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: generation set us on course to you know, still to

809
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: where we are today. Okay, it's unbelievably hard to make

810
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 1: it talented, is it? Most fifty percent? So needless to say,

811
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: you and Charlie made it. Who was the driving force?

812
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 1: Was that you? Was it? Charlie was a third party?

813
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: Did you ever waiver say Okay, we've seen the future,

814
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna go, We're gonna get there. I mean, you

815
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: could say it's all about music, and certainly Charlie plays

816
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: the music. But I've got to give great credit also

817
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: to the guys in the band Michael McNeil and keyboards.

818
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: Denck Forbes was really a guitar player who played basslines

819
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: as well as a guitar. The everyone was chipping in,

820
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: but as you know, there needs to be a vision

821
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: of a writing. There needs to be a vision. What

822
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of band are we going to be? What's the

823
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: ethics gonna be, what's the ideal is gonna be? Was

824
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: the looks gonna be, Who's the producer we're gonna work with,

825
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: who's the artwork? It was me and it still is me,

826
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: and um, Charlie's absolutely cool with that. I mean, on

827
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: top of the fact that I write lyrics and melodies.

828
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: But it goes back to this thing and I just

829
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: didn't want anything else in my life. I mean, in

830
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,760
Speaker 1: those young years, I have to see now, I really

831
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: regret it. I was horrible with the girl friends and

832
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: and and the wives and all when they when anyone came,

833
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: when anything that caused work to stop. I was an

834
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: anti social because I was just so into it. Um

835
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: And I'm still so into it. Um. But I I

836
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: I kind of well if if the people who knew

837
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 1: me around and they say that when I whenever I

838
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: turned up with my demo, cassette. Listen to this, this

839
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: is what what we're gonna do. There was all there

840
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: was always some kind of plan there, There was always

841
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: some kind of vision there. Um. I don't know how

842
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: I was able to do that. I don't know, you know,

843
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: because there was no there was no rock school, there

844
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: was no there was no you couldn't go along to

845
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: the guy along the road whose uncle was in a

846
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: band and could show you how to do There was nothing.

847
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: So it was all on and sheer instinct. Um, but

848
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 1: I am. It's amazing thing. On Sunday there we played

849
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: a gig in France and this time there was a

850
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: lot of eighties bands playing playing there and names you'll know, Madness,

851
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: the undertones um oh m D. And the amazing thing

852
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: was you talking to those guys. They all went to

853
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: school together. Now, I'm not sure what other industries where

854
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: I guess it doesn't happen now. Bands really even happen now,

855
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: But they all went to school together. Now, I'm not

856
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: even sure what other industries that ever happened. I mean,

857
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: of course we know about Bill Gates and you know

858
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: the how Microsoft began and a rather Apple and and

859
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: those guys they were, but it is amazing. I mean,

860
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: of course that goes back to the ly Beatles and

861
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones and the Who and all of those bands.

862
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: It was really it was a school thing and everyone

863
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: has their part to play and it um fits together

864
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: to a point where it stops spitting together. Okay. You

865
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: know when bands get together and they start to rehearse,

866
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: and it's probably you. There's always someone say okay, we

867
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: gotta get gigs, we gotta get an age, and we

868
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: gotta get a manager. How did that all come together? Well,

869
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: I remember, you know people talk about, you know, in

870
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 1: the early days was also thing of you know, selling

871
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: out and you know you're treating this like it's a business.

872
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what are you talking about? It is

873
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: a business? For example, business skilled business, lesson one or

874
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: first over a gig playing in a pub in Glasgow

875
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: and we couldn't believe we're even getting the gig, but

876
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: the owner gave us the gig a Monday night that

877
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: would be otherwise empty. We filled it with our friends

878
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: and I went down a storm and you know, we

879
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: looked around. We get paid fifteen pounds. Basically it went

880
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,479
Speaker 1: something like it costs about five pounds to rent the van,

881
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: five pounds to rent the p a, five pounds to

882
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: get a couple of guys to help us, a driver

883
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. Basically, it costs us twenty quid to put

884
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: the gig on and we got paid fifteen. So we

885
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: were bankrupt on the first night. That was us. Now,

886
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: as soon as the gig finished, I just thought, how

887
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: are we going to get to the next gig? You know,

888
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: we're five we're five it down. How is this going

889
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: to ever work? So I remember going upstairs and I

890
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: got I got sent upstairs. He was upstairs the office

891
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 1: to challenge him. It's pretty funny. It's a little Greek guy.

892
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: And I said, listen. He said, you bands great, come back,

893
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: you can play every Monday. I said, no, you this

894
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 1: won't work. We're bankrupt. What are you talking about, I explained,

895
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: and said, you have to pay us more more money. No, no, no,

896
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: I'm not paying what I said. You have to pay

897
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: us more. We'll fill This place would've been empty, and

898
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: I've been here on Monday nights empty. You have to

899
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,439
Speaker 1: pay us more. We can't make it work. Finally he said,

900
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: all right. It was a steakhouse that the seller was

901
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 1: the music upstairs and we're reading steak and stuff. He said,

902
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: I'll do you a deal. I'll give you twenty five

903
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: pounds if you turn down. And I said, we can't

904
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: turn down. We can't turn down. People have to feel it.

905
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: We can't turn down. It's too loud. I said, what

906
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 1: makes you say it's too loud? You're up, Pierre, He said,

907
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: the peas are bouncing off the plate. He said, people

908
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: are complaining up here, the plates are rattling. Well, we

909
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: played there for the next six months and every time

910
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: I'd go back and hit him up for more because

911
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: we were then wanting to spread, going playing Aberdeen, going

912
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: playing Dundee, going playing, studdling, and it became a real lesson.

913
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: It became a real you know, a real uh lesson.

914
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: It was. It was already a company. And that's a

915
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 1: dirty secret, okay. The dream of a band is to

916
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: get a record deal. So you had a manager. It

917
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: was associated with the airs. Do you get a record deal?

918
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: How did that all come together? Well, that was an

919
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: amazing thing. Um Our parents, they were great. Our parents

920
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: chipped in to give us a hundred pounds to go

921
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: into a studio in Glasgow to make a demo type

922
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: um about five or six songs, and I had a

923
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: friend in the local record shop who said, I can

924
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: get you the name of all the and our guys.

925
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: We didn't really we didn't know what in our guys.

926
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: We we came in you but he said, no, you

927
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,439
Speaker 1: just take it down. You give him your tape. He'll

928
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: give it a listen. You know. We were so green,

929
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: but at least being he worked in the record store,

930
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: he was the cool guy. He gave us a name,

931
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: you know, Island Records and whoever the CBS so we had.

932
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: I had checked down with my friend David Henderson. Well

933
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: go around there again. Can we see that in our guy? No,

934
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: are you crazy? You're an appointment? No, no, you've what

935
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: are you crazy? So um usually be girls at the

936
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: front desk, you know, and we would say, oh, that's

937
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: a drug, you know, and maybe you'd like a cassette

938
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: and bob. It took me two weeks to hitchhake home.

939
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: But believe it or not, but tell you my hedgehake home.

940
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: A couple of people had called that the girls had

941
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: been playing the music and the recess usually you know,

942
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: the interns and the receptionists and stuff. They and our

943
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: guys walking through on the way to lunch. What's that

944
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 1: song called? Who's this? As? These Glasgow guys anyway? Big time?

945
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: We had no manager. Obviously by time I had hedgehacked home.

946
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: My mom said, oh, a couple of guys have called

947
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: for you, And I said, well, who was it? Oh,

948
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't have a pen at the time.

949
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: I was making your dad's dinner, right and I would say, well,

950
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: was it CBS? No, I don't think that was it?

951
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: Was it? E M I No, that sounds familiar a

952
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: christ you know. She said, if they like you, they'll

953
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: call back. Well they did, and don't ask me where

954
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: we got the hootspa for this. But two or three

955
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: called back and they said, listen, we want to bring

956
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: you down play a gig in London, do a showcase. Uh,

957
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: we'll let the rest of the people in the company

958
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: see now. To hear those words was so you know,

959
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: people would have died. The local bands where we were

960
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: would have died to hear the words. To every one

961
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: of them. I said, no, no, no, no, you've got

962
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: to come up here. What At that time people didn't

963
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: travel the provinces. You had to go to London that's

964
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: why a lot of Scottish bands failed. That we go

965
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: to London sudden they would be broke and then they

966
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: would fall out. They'd be living in a squad. I

967
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: knew all that. I said, now you've got to come

968
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 1: up here. Now we don't, We're not gonna. I said, well,

969
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, we play up here. I knew. We played

970
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: every Sunday night in a place called the Mars Bar.

971
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: And by that time, not only were we getting good,

972
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: people would come and see it. They knew every word.

973
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: So when they in our guys eventually made their way

974
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: up and they did, it was like every song was

975
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: a hit because the audiences knew all the choruses and

976
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: and we had worked it out really so well. You know,

977
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: we had our own little light show. I mean it

978
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: was I'm talking about a tiny pub, but in our

979
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: mind it was Madison Square Garden, and we already knew

980
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: and you're gonna laugh at this, the I and he

981
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: we already knew the label we wanted. We wanted to

982
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: be an arista why lou Reid, Patty Smith, iggy Pop,

983
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: and it was an American and our guy there, you

984
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: you may be known, guy called Ben Edmonds who who

985
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: I really liked us, so we eventually saying and we thought, God,

986
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: we're in the coolest label out. I remember going down

987
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: to the Plush Offices and Marble Arts thinking home of

988
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: lou Reid, Patty Smith, Iggy Pop. They only have one

989
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: huge portrait on the wall. When we walked in Barry Manilow,

990
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 1: I thought, what is this and then I realized that's

991
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: Botty that's paying for all of this, because none of

992
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: the other three were. Let's be honest, um, but yeah,

993
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: that was It was a dream to get a record deal.

994
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: It was a dream too for someone who hung out

995
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: and record stores all my life. To the first day

996
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: when you see your single in the window of the

997
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: store and I can't tell you that thrill of that,

998
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 1: it's something that will never leave me. Okay, Now, all

999
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: those early albums didn't come out in America. The first

1000
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: thing we saw was New Gold Dream, which was on

1001
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: A and M Virgin through A and M. It was

1002
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: hard to follow what went on before, even though all

1003
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: the press SAIDs I mean, so what was going on

1004
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: when you run Arista? Well, unfortunately not a lot in

1005
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: terms of sales. I mean, what happened was there was

1006
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: there was always a couple of says to simple means.

1007
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we really started out wanting to be an

1008
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: art rock band for for lack of a better term,

1009
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: and indeed we still do, to be honest with you,

1010
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: but we couldn't help ourselves in the sense it there

1011
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 1: was always a few pop tunes in there that would

1012
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: make us different from Magazine, that would make us different

1013
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: from Wire, um, that would make us different from the

1014
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: early ultro box um. But there was always this what

1015
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: is it gonna be? And our first album came out

1016
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: and based on based on the live work. I mean

1017
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: even before even before we played in England, our album

1018
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: was out and in the chart just in Scottish sales alone.

1019
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: But that was the life thing. The record came Now

1020
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: radio weren't up for it. Um. We didn't like it either.

1021
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: The debut album I remember thinking, I mean, it was

1022
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: a great experience. We worked with legendary producer John Leckey

1023
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: and I remember when you think about this, well, but

1024
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 1: John in his well, it was a wisdom. Um. We

1025
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: recorded in this residential place with the Rolling Stones mobile

1026
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: truck and John thought we'll do that. That was a

1027
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: thrill to be inside the Rolling Stones mobile truck. But

1028
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: we'll save the budget and I'll take you to Abbey

1029
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: Road for ten days. Now. I guess he was thinking

1030
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: what an education that will be, and it certainly was,

1031
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: because as soon as we went into an Abbey Road

1032
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: I completely froze the magnitude of the whole the magnitude.

1033
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: I thought, who you know that you're walking past? Where

1034
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: you know the Beatles plugged in here and we're pink

1035
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: Floyd did? I thought, who the hell needs us? It

1036
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: just we should have stayed in Glasgow and stayed in

1037
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: the little studio and worked on a much raw sound.

1038
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: I mean not all the guys thought that. Some of

1039
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 1: the other guys thought this is great, but I it

1040
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: was like being a rookie and you know you're already

1041
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: playing the World Series or something. You haven't even up

1042
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: until then. We've only been in a studio in Glasgow

1043
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: for one hour. I mean it was like, what is this?

1044
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: So when the records were making the record, thank so

1045
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: the engineers and the production, I realized, now it sounded good.

1046
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: What has sounded? It sounded professional, but it was hollow.

1047
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: It didn't have the vibe and I we weren't. I was.

1048
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: I seen me the only one with the problem, but

1049
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: it just didn't make me feel as the demos were feeling.

1050
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: So it was the first case of demo whitis. We

1051
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: should have just worked on the demos, so we we

1052
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: didn't like the first record, but we always kept this

1053
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: thing of playing live, and even though we weren't getting

1054
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: radio play, we would go round and round, and at

1055
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: first there'd be two men and a dog, and then

1056
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: you go back a month later and there'd be ten

1057
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: men and a dog, and then promoters were starting to say, listen,

1058
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that reaction that you got tonight. So

1059
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: we always kept alife then going, even though the first

1060
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: two or three records. But by the third record, and

1061
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: of course now this is insane, you wouldn't even get

1062
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: the chance to make one reagon. Now it the third record,

1063
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: we were in a heck of a lot of debt

1064
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: um and looked like we're gonna get dropped, and who

1065
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: knows what was going to be. But just at that moment,

1066
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: this new romantic then came a lot where anyone that

1067
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: had a synthesizer and a bit of a disco beat

1068
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: um in our guys, we're up for you know. Duran

1069
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: Duran we're coming out Spando Ballet, We're coming out these

1070
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: the dance charts and billboard. Um. And we had a

1071
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: couple of songs that started to feature in that. And

1072
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: I have to say by that time our favorite record

1073
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: label had become Virgin. That's so much great stuff from

1074
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: sex Pistols, xtc um, so on and so forth. Um,

1075
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: Virgin started to kind of put out the feelers, well,

1076
01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: if you get dropped, we're here. And we didn't get dropped.

1077
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: To be honest, we had to buy ourselves out. Um.

1078
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: That was a bit painful, but Virgin picked us up

1079
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: and they were the greatest label to be with, and

1080
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: then threw them eventually in Them, which was another great

1081
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: grit grit label to be with. But the thing with

1082
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: Simple Minds in Europe, UK and States, it was always

1083
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: out of kilter because as you you said, those for

1084
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: three records were released in America. So who bought you

1085
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: out of areas to yourselves or Virgin version brought us out?

1086
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: The the the bought us out I think for thirty

1087
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: five grand and the first record we did with them,

1088
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: Clear the Debts, and from then on in the next

1089
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: four or five or number one albums, Okay, so as

1090
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: I say, from an American perspective, new Gold dream comes

1091
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: out comes out on Gold. Ye know, it really gotta push.

1092
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: What was the perspective from your end? It was exciting.

1093
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's still you know, it gotta push college radio.

1094
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: Great friends of hers and especially the younger kids that

1095
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: ain't Karen Globear. Jeff Gold was a kid then when

1096
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 1: Isaac's people like that on our side, um starting to push.

1097
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: But even with that, Bob, it didn't make a dent

1098
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: like it did everywhere else, I mean American Canada and

1099
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: make sure we got played there and started to started

1100
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,759
Speaker 1: to feel like what we're getting places, you know, selling

1101
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: out the Massy Hall, and and and Australia. We were

1102
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: having hits, it seemed everywhere else. Let's just say we

1103
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: were at the door. We were at the door of

1104
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: going into the bigger league. Of course, there was this

1105
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: thing just about to come over the horizon called them TV,

1106
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: but no one knew about that. Then. Okay, how do

1107
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: you end up working with Steve will lily White? What's

1108
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 1: that experience like? And how do you end up with Waterfront? Well?

1109
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,719
Speaker 1: That was I mean Steve at that time, that really

1110
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: was not very many um not going to see young

1111
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: ish rock producers and Steve he had made a bit

1112
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: of a name for himself, especially with Peter Gabriel's album,

1113
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: that Third Album which blew all our minds. But then

1114
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: of course the YouTube records, Big Country. There was a

1115
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: point where it just seems Steve was the only guy

1116
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: everyone was using drum machines. There was a point where

1117
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: it just seemed like Steve was the only guy that

1118
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: could make a rock record in the UK. M that's

1119
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,759
Speaker 1: not quite true, but that's how it seemed. He everything

1120
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: he from XTC, you to UM so it was always

1121
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: imminent and then we ended up playing well, we ended

1122
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: up playing a few festivals. But this time when I

1123
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: said we're going through the big league, same same life,

1124
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 1: we started to get asked to beyond some of the

1125
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 1: bigger festivals in Germany, Holland, Belgium, and then you would

1126
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: get to meet really get to meet some of your

1127
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: contemporaries and people would hang out. One of the festivals,

1128
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: it was a two day festival where we finally caught

1129
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 1: up with you too, and Steve was there with them

1130
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: the first day. UM, I gotta get this right. They

1131
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: went on before us and the second day we went

1132
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:47,560
Speaker 1: on before them, and that was a heck of an experience.

1133
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: They had just come back from the States with a

1134
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: gold album with War and to say they were main

1135
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: blowing was I mean, there were I could I couldn't

1136
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: work out whether the noise were coming for it only

1137
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: looked like when you see now the huge show. Back then,

1138
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: it looked like there was just a vox ump um

1139
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: and they were mind blowingly good. Um so good. In fact,

1140
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: I remember someone said to me recently, Um, did you

1141
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: did you think then they would become the biggest band

1142
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: in the world. I said, well, I knew they would

1143
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: become the biggest band in the world. And she said,

1144
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: how did you know? And I said, because Bono told

1145
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: me they would. Um with that level of self assuredness

1146
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,600
Speaker 1: and confidence. Um. But anyway, Steve was there, He's a

1147
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: charming guy, had made great, great records, and we were

1148
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: we were wanting to be for sound up. Were brought

1149
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 1: in a much heavier drama and it all seemed to

1150
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 1: be It all seemed to be right. So what was

1151
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: the experience like in how you know my favorite song

1152
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: from that album's Waterfront? How did that come together? But

1153
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 1: that's a song that was written. Really, I mean it's

1154
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: it's it's even hard to cause it's not a song

1155
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 1: in a traditional sense, but um lyrically, it's about the

1156
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: rebirth of our city, or city Glasgow, as many cities,

1157
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 1: originally began as a fishing village and it goes through,

1158
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 1: it grows, the industrial age comes, the city grows, it

1159
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: gets rich, the river dies all that pollution. Then the

1160
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: industrial age ends. There's rust everywhere, there's no more work.

1161
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,600
Speaker 1: Guess what, the salmon's back now. I'm not saying the

1162
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,640
Speaker 1: whole city could live in salmon, Bob, but there was

1163
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: something in this about renew, rebirth. Take me to the river. Um.

1164
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 1: When I got the music. Usually the way it works,

1165
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,679
Speaker 1: as I get the music, and nine times out of ten,

1166
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 1: I'm blown away with it and I can just hear

1167
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: an atmosphere in it. I see a picture in it,

1168
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: and usually it's in sync with some words I've been

1169
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:02,719
Speaker 1: thinking about or something. And the first time we played

1170
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: that song was at a festival and the song hadn't

1171
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 1: even a song. We hadn't even finished right in the song,

1172
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: but sonically it was so strong we thought we could

1173
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: just start with this as I kno with and see

1174
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: where the audience goes with it, and well they went mental.

1175
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: So we knew we were onto something and Steve brought

1176
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: a great, great focus to it. But it was the

1177
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,639
Speaker 1: base players melody Derek Forbes. I've got to say that. Now,

1178
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: what else? You'll be on the phone to me tomorrow. Okay,

1179
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: So I have you right here. There's a lot been

1180
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: written about tell me the story of Keith Forcey. Don't

1181
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,600
Speaker 1: you forget about me? How it happened? Did you like

1182
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,640
Speaker 1: it at the time? Did you not want to do it?

1183
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: Word was that you resented? That was a hit? What

1184
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 1: was going on? And what are your feelings about it today? Well,

1185
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 1: everything you said there is true. There was, there was.

1186
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: I can tell you our story, of course, I'll tell

1187
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: you our story. I now keep hearing everyone else's story,

1188
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: and I think I don't think that's true. You know,

1189
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,799
Speaker 1: I keep hearing that it was offered to this person,

1190
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: and offered to that person, and offer this person. It

1191
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: may well have been, but I'm maintained if it was

1192
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,600
Speaker 1: offered to them, it was offered while we were refusing

1193
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: and Deli dallow and you might say the whole approach

1194
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: was wrong. We you know, we're all we're young, we

1195
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 1: were brattish. We thought, why the heck would we do

1196
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,160
Speaker 1: someone else's song, especially when we had just written this

1197
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,799
Speaker 1: thing called Alive and Kicking, which wasn't out yet or recorded,

1198
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: but we thought it was the Bee's knees, and we thought,

1199
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 1: why would we do someone else's song? What's this about? Well,

1200
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: it turns out that Keith had come to see us play,

1201
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: had come backstage. There's a lot of people backstage. I

1202
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 1: didn't get to meet him, but he had given the

1203
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 1: cassette of the song and said, you know, the record

1204
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 1: company is going to be in touch with you soon.

1205
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: He had given it to the keyboard player who put

1206
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: in his pocket and didn't listen to it for weeks.

1207
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: So it was going nowhere, and we started getting this

1208
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: these calls UM basically in him, in him, we're kind

1209
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: of saying we should have pushed harder with New Gold Dream.

1210
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 1: They saw the success it hid everywhere else. We should

1211
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: have pushed harder. Um your next record. And you remember

1212
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 1: the great Charlie Minor. He was on the phone, you

1213
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 1: gotta do this, you gotta do this, this will set

1214
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: up your next record. Great. For those who don't know,

1215
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: he was one of the greatest promotion guys ever. Um,

1216
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: when Charlie got on the phone, it was like, oh,

1217
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: this is serious. He said, this movie is gonna be great,

1218
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: and um, this will this will set you up so good.

1219
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: You'll love it and you'll love the song. And I

1220
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 1: said what song? And he said, UM, I thought you

1221
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 1: were I thought we were writing this song. None all

1222
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 1: the songs there, they've got the song for the movie.

1223
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:59,599
Speaker 1: It worked with the script. And that doesn't sound good.

1224
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: We're our own songs. We'd never the idea of doing

1225
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: someone else's song was alien to us. Anyway, we listened

1226
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: to the song, and we don't think it's a bad song.

1227
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 1: And I gotta say to you the other day talking

1228
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 1: about the how the way songs turned up on the

1229
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: internet now that the original demos, I love to listen

1230
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:23,559
Speaker 1: to the the Jerry Rafferty song and how that dispute was.

1231
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: What a great thing to hear that. I played that

1232
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: track actually about twenty times the demo. Um. Anyway, we

1233
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,679
Speaker 1: listened to it and Keith was singing this song don't

1234
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: You Forget About Me, which to me sounded much more

1235
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: like the Psychedelic Force, who incidentally is a band we

1236
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,639
Speaker 1: all liked it didn't sound like a simple main song.

1237
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 1: It didn't sound like a lyric I would write. Um,

1238
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 1: we just couldn't see, you know why. And we really

1239
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,759
Speaker 1: dragged our feet. And I'm not sure about this, not sure,

1240
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 1: not sure. And the way I remember it is that

1241
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: Keith eventually turned up, and the story was, you see,

1242
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,799
Speaker 1: I already I know will come to him. I already

1243
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 1: had in my men. I wanted to work with Jimmy Iovine.

1244
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 1: I thought we needed someone really to pushes and writing

1245
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 1: better songs. But Keith turned up, and I see, I

1246
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 1: know you're not going to do the song, but maybe

1247
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: we'll work in future, and all that well alone, behold,

1248
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 1: we love Keith. Doesn't so much love his song, but

1249
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 1: loved him. And you know, you hung out a couple

1250
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: of days and they happen. Why not just try? He would,

1251
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: very he would, very shrewd kind of codjoulders. Let's goin

1252
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 1: for a couple of hours. If it works, who knows,

1253
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you get the record company off

1254
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: your back. Shrewd. Well, we went in and you know,

1255
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: literally was about two hours, and we mocked up the

1256
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 1: start to their song with a he he has and

1257
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 1: then we this whole breakdown thing. There was no words

1258
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 1: for that. So I started to sing the corneyst thing

1259
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: that came in my mind, La la la la, And

1260
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: before we knew it, it was there, and I'll kept

1261
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 1: saying no, no, I got it back. I can't leave

1262
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,799
Speaker 1: that quota like that. I have to sing meaningful worlds.

1263
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: But they weren't having none of it. And isn't it strange?

1264
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 1: You know? It's the way life throws up these things

1265
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: that were not You try, you're very hardest, it's something

1266
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, and then something you couldn't care about.

1267
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: You just do it and it becomes, you know, kind

1268
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 1: of a song of his generation, and some might even

1269
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 1: say subsequent generations. So how do you feel about it now? Well,

1270
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 1: the first thing I feel is the first thing I

1271
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 1: feel is this is where it's childish to have any

1272
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 1: problems with it. What I feel about it now is

1273
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: when we went in that day, we put our heart

1274
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 1: and soul in it. That was the thing, and we

1275
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 1: put our heart and soul in it. Every night we

1276
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 1: played because that song has given the world over so

1277
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 1: much pleasure to people. Do we play it as sound checks? No?

1278
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,920
Speaker 1: Do we played at rehearsals. No. Are we grateful for

1279
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 1: everything it brought to us, Yes, but I also think

1280
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: we had a problem. Is it's a stupid problem. We felt, God,

1281
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: We've got all that success with that thing, and we

1282
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 1: didn't We didn't deserve it. I think there's a feeling

1283
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: that we didn't deserve it. Um. Only therapists could work

1284
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:43,600
Speaker 1: that out, Bob, but none of us go to therapy. Okay,

1285
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,600
Speaker 1: so how do you end up working with Jimmy Ivy?

1286
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 1: You know, he just seemed again as a fan of music,

1287
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 1: so many great records. His name seemed to be there.

1288
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: I mean the obvious obviously born born a run and

1289
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:05,599
Speaker 1: then a Smith's Tom Petty dire straits. Um. I mean

1290
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: that's not bad right there, I have induced I have

1291
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: his name kept popping up. The one thing I felt

1292
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 1: after working with Steve, which was the record prior to

1293
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 1: working with Jimmy and Bob Clear Mountain. We can't leave

1294
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:24,639
Speaker 1: Bob out in this, um, I felt Steve. The record

1295
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 1: we did with Steve was a game of two halves.

1296
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,759
Speaker 1: You know, the first half I think has got great tracks,

1297
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,560
Speaker 1: but the second half not so. I mean one of

1298
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 1: the reasons was we were constantly touring, and we would

1299
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 1: take six weeks to do a record and we will

1300
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: be bluffing it. But you can only bluff it so far.

1301
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:46,560
Speaker 1: And I thought, we need someone to really put his

1302
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 1: under pressure with the songs. And someone must have told

1303
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: me that that was Jimmy's thing, that he really beat

1304
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 1: you up before you got anywhere near the studio. And

1305
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,640
Speaker 1: and I was up for that kind of I was

1306
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 1: up for that that kind of challenge. But unfortunately we

1307
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 1: couldn't get Jimmy to bait for the longest time. And

1308
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:12,440
Speaker 1: he tells the story of he had gone down to Australia.

1309
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 1: I think you remember, well, I know, you know he's

1310
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:18,720
Speaker 1: brilliant Colin hey men at work, who you know. I

1311
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 1: also had this kind of freakish success in the States

1312
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 1: um and I think they weren't playing ball with the

1313
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: American record Company as I held it, and they wanted

1314
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 1: to send someone down, and Jimmy got the offer. He

1315
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: went down. When he got to Australia, he found out

1316
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 1: that those Australians don't take anything from no one. So

1317
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 1: Jimmy told the story of he was making his way

1318
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 1: back to the airport and he was in the taxi

1319
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 1: with a kid Driver, what do you do? And Jimmy,

1320
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: I'm a record producer. Really, who do you work with? Well?

1321
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 1: I worked with Springsteen and I work with you two

1322
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. Now we haven't been able to

1323
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,759
Speaker 1: get Jimmy on the phone anyway. Taxi driver kids, sister, Jimmie,

1324
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: this is my band and he plays on Waterfront and

1325
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: Jimmy went, wow, that's that band. Um. And of course

1326
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 1: we met up at the time he was I remember

1327
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: going down to the studio he was working with Lawn

1328
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 1: Justice and we were so keen, you know, and he said, so,

1329
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 1: what do you got to play me? I should I

1330
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: haven't got anything yet, you know, we're just Oh, you

1331
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: haven't got anything. And he said, well, you know there's

1332
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: that song you've got that. Don't you forget about me?

1333
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 1: Song that's on fire. You better have stuff and I said,

1334
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:40,639
Speaker 1: we will have stuff. We we will, We'll have stuff,

1335
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 1: will have good stuff. The bands and forum just now,

1336
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: h yeah, I've heard all that before. He said, I've

1337
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 1: heard it all beat before. I'm not going to near

1338
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 1: you until you have the songs that you can play

1339
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:56,360
Speaker 1: me the songs. And I said, okay, I'll be back

1340
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:01,639
Speaker 1: with songs. Um, he said one. I said, about six weeks.

1341
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:06,679
Speaker 1: He said, he said, You're gonna have ten great songs

1342
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,600
Speaker 1: in six weeks. I said yeah. He said, are you

1343
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 1: fucking Bob Dylan? I mean, I've been looking for you.

1344
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 1: I've been looking for you all my life. And I thought,

1345
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 1: oh God, I'm in with someone tough here. And that's

1346
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: the way it started. And and I have to say, um,

1347
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: at the time, Jimmy, we didn't know this because although

1348
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 1: his name was involved in those records, it seemed to

1349
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 1: be the jury was out. What he actually did. I

1350
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 1: later found out, Um, so what he's a vibe merchant,

1351
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: or he creates a culture or whatever. Well, all of

1352
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: that's hugely important. A Shelley Yakistas does it. It's Bob

1353
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: clear Mountain that does it. But I have to see,

1354
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:54,280
Speaker 1: even to this day, I have been, by far has

1355
01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: been the best motivator, coach, all around good guy I

1356
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: came across. And I'm not saying that just now because

1357
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 1: we're best friends. I haven't spoke to Jimmy for gazillions

1358
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:08,320
Speaker 1: of years. But when I look back now, I mean

1359
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: what a coach Jimmy was, And and he knew the

1360
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: thing he knew was maybe technically he couldn't articulate it,

1361
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: but he knew when it felt right. And for me,

1362
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:24,240
Speaker 1: whether it's movies, whether it's music, where there's books, whereas

1363
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 1: people you hang out with, whether it's food you eat,

1364
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 1: it's all about how it feels. It's all about how

1365
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 1: it makes you feel. And God, Jimmy was so great.

1366
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: So you had phenomenal success with that album. Why didn't

1367
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,360
Speaker 1: you work with Jimmy again? Because I think we we

1368
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 1: I think we were good at very few people did

1369
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: we work with again. I mean, you get a lot

1370
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:46,640
Speaker 1: of bands that don't get wrong with the producers or

1371
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 1: the resenter producers are, or they see them as something

1372
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:52,719
Speaker 1: that's forced on them. Quite often, that's that's the case.

1373
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 1: We loved other producers we worked with, but I think

1374
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 1: we got the best out them on the one we

1375
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 1: we we got it. Okay, that songwriting thing, I got that.

1376
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 1: Now I'm never going to do that again. That that

1377
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 1: lessons learned? What else is out there? Well, you know,

1378
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: Trevor Horn comes knocking. That's not bad. I mean when

1379
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 1: you think of the records he was making and so um,

1380
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: you know it was time for the new adventure. Okay,

1381
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 1: so that album with Trevor Horn has Belfast Child tell

1382
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 1: us the story there, Well, Trevor was. I mean the

1383
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: thing about Trevor is when you think back then, you

1384
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 1: think of those record breaking I mean everything he did

1385
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: was epic um where it was yes, whether Frankie goes

1386
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 1: to Hollywood, whether it was ABC seal. And he came

1387
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,680
Speaker 1: up at the time, we're working in this studio and

1388
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,600
Speaker 1: the countryside. And as soon as he comes and he

1389
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: goes to his um, why have you never made some

1390
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 1: kind of Celtic sounding record or song? And I said, well,

1391
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 1: that's the stuff I grew up hating. UM. I mean

1392
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:00,639
Speaker 1: I didn't want to know about all of that stuff

1393
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:02,639
Speaker 1: when I grew up. I wanted to know about New York.

1394
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to know about Detroit, I wanted to know

1395
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 1: about Los Angeles, wanted to know about the doors. I

1396
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 1: don't want to know about my grandmother's highland home and

1397
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 1: her music and all that stuff. And he said, well,

1398
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 1: I think you're making a mistake there. So he planted

1399
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: a seed. And we were working one night, took a

1400
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 1: break for dinner, and I came out in the base

1401
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: player we're working with at the time, A fellow called

1402
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 1: John Giblin, a bit older than us. John, and he

1403
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: he didn't know folk music, and he didn't know a

1404
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: lot of the Celtic stuff. As I came into the room,

1405
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: he was there alone and he had taken the base

1406
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: off he could play a bit of keys and he

1407
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 1: was playing the most hauntingly beautiful melody. And I just

1408
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 1: sat down listened and at the end I said to him,

1409
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 1: when did you write that? I assumed he had written it,

1410
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 1: because he had he had written a couple of things

1411
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,360
Speaker 1: for us. I just assumed he had written it. And

1412
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: he said, oh, about two hundred years ago. What are

1413
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: you talking about? He said, no, I didn't write this.

1414
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: This is from a traditional Irish air called she Moved

1415
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:20,439
Speaker 1: through the fair And I said, really, well, just that

1416
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 1: week there had been it was before the peace process

1417
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 1: in Belfast, there had been a horrendous incident and it

1418
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: was all over the news. Now, growing up in Glasgow

1419
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: on a clear day and just down the course from

1420
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:38,280
Speaker 1: Glasgow you can actually see Ireland literally, so we grew

1421
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 1: up with all that on a doorstep, all that sadness

1422
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: and tragedy of those years, we felt very close to it.

1423
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 1: And with that album, Street fading years. I guess I

1424
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: was better at thirty. Then. I guess at a certain time,

1425
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:54,679
Speaker 1: you you kind of you feel the need, you want

1426
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: to write about the big themes, the big subjects, and

1427
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 1: at that I'm Mandela apartheid, human rights on a door

1428
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 1: step Belfast. And when he came up with that Irish well,

1429
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 1: when he presented that Irish melody, he said, go and

1430
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:18,600
Speaker 1: check out the song. Someone back and I got obsessed

1431
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 1: by the song. I I, of course, it's the days

1432
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 1: before the internet. But I I ended up with so

1433
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 1: many versions and I thought, I wonder if you can

1434
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 1: just rap your own words to it? Because it was

1435
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: obviously public domain. I wasn't a publishing issue. And I thought,

1436
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 1: I wonder if that is I wonder how kosher that is? Um,

1437
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 1: Because for some people in the folk world it's a

1438
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 1: sacred cove, but for other people that's a very nature

1439
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: of folk music that they often changed the worlds, and

1440
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:55,360
Speaker 1: every generation came along and they adapted and they put

1441
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:59,480
Speaker 1: their own things. So eventually I thought, fuck it, Um,

1442
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to write my own story. I'm going to

1443
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: write my own song to this melody. Um. Trevor thought

1444
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 1: I was a great idea, and in a sense what

1445
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: we put together was it's almost the version of Stairway

1446
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 1: Heaven because that also begins very folk, and then the

1447
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 1: song expands, you know, the band, the solo, and then

1448
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 1: it well again it's a case of well, we'll do it,

1449
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: but it will never work. Well it goes to number one.

1450
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how many countries I went to number one.

1451
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Unfortunately it wasn't for America. But it was Trevor who

1452
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:44,639
Speaker 1: pushed this into that and then for the longest time

1453
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,240
Speaker 1: we didn't play it, who started playing it again. It

1454
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:50,520
Speaker 1: seems to have found its time because even though thankfully

1455
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 1: situation in Northern Ireland has changed dramatically, the real lessons

1456
01:29:56,200 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: to the song is about the victims of Irelan somen

1457
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,599
Speaker 1: war and right now as we speak, certainly in Europe,

1458
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: um that's very prevalent. So whenever we play the song, yeah,

1459
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 1: it's about Belfast, but it's no longer about Belfast, It's

1460
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:18,160
Speaker 1: about wherever war is going on. Okay, the next album

1461
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:22,800
Speaker 1: you work with Trevor's guy, Stephen Lipson, um you do

1462
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 1: Let there Be Love, which is my favorite Simple Minds song.

1463
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna ask you how that came together well.

1464
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,719
Speaker 1: I mean Stephen was when we realized working with Trevor

1465
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: that Stephen was such a huge part of it. I mean,

1466
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: Trevor wouldn't deny that he was a brilliant programmer. He

1467
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 1: could play as well, Steve, you know something, he would

1468
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 1: just give me the guitar, you know, and he would

1469
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: play Elaine and other people you like, hang on a minute,

1470
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:49,720
Speaker 1: but it would be a great idea. So he was

1471
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 1: also a collaborate or Um. We were under pressure, Bob,

1472
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 1: because after after Belfast Child and that Street Fighting year's

1473
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 1: record that didn't do anything in America thankfully did well elsewhere,

1474
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:06,519
Speaker 1: we were under pressure to try and get back to

1475
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: a more classic Simple Minds song in relation to a

1476
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:13,640
Speaker 1: sort of alive in kicking or something. So if I

1477
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:16,559
Speaker 1: was being crude, I would say that we we threw

1478
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 1: ourselves and they're trying to get something in that vein

1479
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 1: again and it worked. I mean again, it's a song

1480
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 1: when we played live, very soulful verse, but big soaring chorus.

1481
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean they say that writers only have one or

1482
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 1: two themes, whether you're Bob Dylan or whatever, and there's

1483
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:45,599
Speaker 1: always been a great optimism simple Minds music I think

1484
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 1: a great feeling of don't give up, keep the faith,

1485
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:55,680
Speaker 1: and essentially under a lot of the lyrics to those songs,

1486
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 1: that's that's the message. Okay, you know I love the

1487
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:04,920
Speaker 1: next five good news. But if you look back at

1488
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 1: this period, which ultimately leads to your h the Danu

1489
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 1: mar In pulling away, would you do anything different? I

1490
01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:17,600
Speaker 1: mean what what we would have done different was not

1491
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 1: leave so much time between albums. I mean, you know,

1492
01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 1: if you leave two or three years between albums, I mean,

1493
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: you're asking for problems. But there was reasons for those

1494
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 1: gaps as well. I mean, we as a touring band,

1495
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,559
Speaker 1: if you tour for a year and when we throwed,

1496
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:34,799
Speaker 1: it would be the best part of a year because

1497
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:36,679
Speaker 1: you know, that was still how we made our coin,

1498
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,760
Speaker 1: and that's still the life we wanted to live. So

1499
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 1: if you tour for a year, m the time you

1500
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:45,280
Speaker 1: come off of that, and by this time, we're getting

1501
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 1: older and and and you know, you have other things

1502
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 1: in your life. Kids, wife's obligations, parents are getting older. Um,

1503
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 1: you've got to give time to that. Then you got

1504
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: to right and then it's you know, before you know it,

1505
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:08,480
Speaker 1: three years is gone. Um, and a new generation comes along, so, UM,

1506
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 1: that is it. But I but I don't know. You

1507
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: can't have it all. Maybe some people can, I don't think.

1508
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:16,760
Speaker 1: So you can't have it all. Something has to give,

1509
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 1: and you lose out in one area, you hope your

1510
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:26,160
Speaker 1: life gets enriched in another area. Um, A spaces is made.

1511
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 1: So it's kind of hard to Um, it's hard. I

1512
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:32,759
Speaker 1: mean I also think I also think we were running,

1513
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, we were starting to run on fumes too.

1514
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: I mean, how many songs have you got in you?

1515
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 1: How much? You know? Sometimes you just have to head

1516
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 1: for the hills and give people a break. People have

1517
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 1: had enough for you, time to you know, time to

1518
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:50,639
Speaker 1: move on and and see. I think the trick then

1519
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:53,360
Speaker 1: is it's getting back to super talking. You've got ahead

1520
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:57,680
Speaker 1: for the hills and try and not do anything too desperate,

1521
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, because it's uh, be patient, get all the

1522
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 1: things in your life. Stock up the pool again, because

1523
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 1: what are you going to write from. You have to

1524
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 1: you have to fill up the well. You have to

1525
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 1: get hungry again. Um. Your question was what would we

1526
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 1: two different? What I would say is I'm glad. I'm

1527
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: glad of something that we didn't do. We didn't get

1528
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 1: embittered because you know, sometimes you meet people that can

1529
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 1: have had it and they lost it, and um, it's

1530
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:39,680
Speaker 1: everyone else's fault, you know that what all those them

1531
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 1: something Although the record company didn't do this, oh the

1532
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:47,560
Speaker 1: media wrote that all this. Sometimes you just got to

1533
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 1: take it on the chin. You know what, are you

1534
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 1: gonna run home your mommy? It is what it is.

1535
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 1: So you ultimately did get married and have kids. How

1536
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:58,880
Speaker 1: did you keep that marriage going for so long as

1537
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 1: a road musician. What are your kids up to today? Well,

1538
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:06,679
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was. I mean, of course

1539
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 1: it's subjective of what is long. But you know, one

1540
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:13,880
Speaker 1: of the big stories in my life would always be

1541
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 1: was meeting Chrissy Haynd and marry and Chrissy Haynd. I mean,

1542
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:21,679
Speaker 1: at the Chris, he's older than me. She she's she's

1543
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:24,200
Speaker 1: your age, Bob. I think maybe a couple of years older.

1544
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 1: She's eight years older than me. Um, meeting someone, I

1545
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:33,760
Speaker 1: mean everyone has this image of Chrissy and I have

1546
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:36,280
Speaker 1: to say it. You know, she she does live up

1547
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:39,760
Speaker 1: to it most of the time, but there's a whole

1548
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 1: other side of our But she's a pussy cat and

1549
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 1: when I met her, I was twenty four. She was

1550
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:49,760
Speaker 1: there too. I don't even think i'd even met. I

1551
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 1: don't think i'd ever even live with a girlfriend before that,

1552
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:56,760
Speaker 1: or a woman. But my band was sailing, we were

1553
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 1: having hits. I was maybe there was a piece of

1554
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:01,200
Speaker 1: me thinking this is a piece of cake. I need

1555
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:05,759
Speaker 1: a real challenge. Well, believe me, I got one. And

1556
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 1: but looking back now, I mean, amazing girl from Ohio.

1557
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: I was such a fan as well. I mean, what

1558
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: an artist she is. But she'd been around the block,

1559
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:24,559
Speaker 1: and kind of no one I hung out with had

1560
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: been around the block more than me. I need. I

1561
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 1: didn't have any older brothers or sisters. She was at

1562
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 1: Kent State. She had all that. She from Ohio. She

1563
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 1: knew all the Midway. She had an amazing taste in

1564
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 1: music through listening to the radio. She in New Country,

1565
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,200
Speaker 1: she knew blues, she knew rock. She's the only person

1566
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:47,600
Speaker 1: now with to this day who would say, Bruce Springsteen,

1567
01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:51,120
Speaker 1: give me a break. It's Mitch Rider you want to see. Um.

1568
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:57,760
Speaker 1: I mean she there was such an education there. Um

1569
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 1: really great, great woman. But mh. You find out that

1570
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 1: the thing that excites you the most quite often it's

1571
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:10,960
Speaker 1: not the thing that's good for you. Um. That can

1572
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,559
Speaker 1: be heroin, or it can be junk food, or it

1573
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: can be relationships or whatever. It wasn't meant to last long.

1574
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:22,960
Speaker 1: To be honest, you see. Um hey, it makes sense, Maddie.

1575
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 1: Someone in the same industry, they'll understand. You know, if

1576
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 1: you work in a kick shop, Mary, whatever the other

1577
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: person work, you'll understand you're from the same line. But

1578
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 1: it's very hard to make it work together. Um. I

1579
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,559
Speaker 1: didn't even know who I was then. I was still

1580
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:44,519
Speaker 1: a kid. But we have not only a kid, we

1581
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 1: have grandkids and still in touch and still good good dialogue.

1582
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:55,759
Speaker 1: And I'm still a fan. And how about Patsy Kensit

1583
01:37:55,840 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 1: after that, well, Patsy Patsy. I I was the elder one,

1584
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: and I think at the time, well, you know, I'm smitten.

1585
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 1: My kids loved her still do Um. I think I

1586
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 1: helped her out of a jam. Sometimes sometimes you love

1587
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:23,639
Speaker 1: somebody because because you you think you can do something

1588
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 1: for them that makes you also feel good. And that

1589
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:29,400
Speaker 1: was the case there. I'm still a fairly young young man,

1590
01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:35,439
Speaker 1: and I think a part of me felt it felt good.

1591
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:41,040
Speaker 1: But you're right, then you're going tour and then you're

1592
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 1: not there for this, and you're not there for that,

1593
01:38:43,160 --> 01:38:46,840
Speaker 1: and then resentments begin and and I mean, and I

1594
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:50,400
Speaker 1: I I mean, I have to see I'm I can't

1595
01:38:50,439 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 1: be very selfish. I really can. I'm very selfish with

1596
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:59,880
Speaker 1: my time. I'm very selfish headspace, and I spend a

1597
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:04,880
Speaker 1: lot of time alone. Um. I love my band and

1598
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:06,719
Speaker 1: I love being out in the road, I love playing.

1599
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 1: Um maybe it just wasn't for me, Okay, but you're

1600
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 1: in a long term relationship now, right, Yeah, for the

1601
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 1: longest time, I've been with a Japanese woman. And when

1602
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 1: I said a little both finding someone who's good for you,

1603
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:26,679
Speaker 1: who can organize everything as well as make you feel good,

1604
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 1: and everyone loves And also, I mean, the other thing

1605
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 1: is it's so great to be with people from other cultures.

1606
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 1: A lot of people will tell you that's not the case.

1607
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:40,160
Speaker 1: You should be with with your own only. But it's

1608
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 1: been so enriching, not only to live in places, but

1609
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,479
Speaker 1: I mean, we are I'm so gladgo through and through

1610
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,040
Speaker 1: the rock I made from his Glasgow, through and through.

1611
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:53,320
Speaker 1: But it's been shaped by your experiences, by the people

1612
01:39:53,360 --> 01:39:56,360
Speaker 1: who have been with different cultures, to get a language

1613
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 1: to go to Japan to spend time there. I mean

1614
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:12,360
Speaker 1: it's been sort of walting. Your band has a lot

1615
01:40:12,439 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 1: of live albums, and I gotta say, the one in

1616
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:21,000
Speaker 1: the Silver Box just unbelievable. And of course it's different

1617
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:24,280
Speaker 1: from what it was prior to the Internet. You know,

1618
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: when live album was something rare, was treated like a

1619
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 1: regular release. Now there's all this stuff on YouTube, you know,

1620
01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:32,880
Speaker 1: And he thought, I mean, the Stones go on put

1621
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 1: on a live album from every tour, but most people

1622
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:38,920
Speaker 1: do not there any thought about how many live albums,

1623
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 1: whether to put it out, not to put it out. No,

1624
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:43,519
Speaker 1: I think you should always put it out. If if

1625
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:45,599
Speaker 1: if if, I mean if you go to hardcore, I'm

1626
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,519
Speaker 1: in the Grid, the Grateful Dead, they're They're the ones

1627
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,959
Speaker 1: where I think you should put as long as the quality.

1628
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 1: If you believe in the quality, um then and if

1629
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:59,519
Speaker 1: you're a great live band and you're always adding stuff

1630
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:04,920
Speaker 1: or you've different versions or or then it it merits it.

1631
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 1: I think every every couple of tours, let's let's say,

1632
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:11,720
Speaker 1: and we're still from that thing. I mean, going back

1633
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:13,200
Speaker 1: to it when I said to you as a kid

1634
01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:17,679
Speaker 1: at sound checks, what did I learn at that scene? Bands?

1635
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:22,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you got all these gigs, and

1636
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:25,080
Speaker 1: you see people who are good, and then you see

1637
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:29,000
Speaker 1: bands that are artists, bands whatever, who are great, and

1638
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:32,759
Speaker 1: the difference between good and great is colossal. Some people

1639
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:35,360
Speaker 1: can make the room jump up and down. Some people

1640
01:41:35,400 --> 01:41:38,759
Speaker 1: can make the walls reverby, some people can the gig finishes,

1641
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 1: you're still thinking about it two weeks later, and then

1642
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:43,640
Speaker 1: there's other bands come in the plane. You think, oh,

1643
01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:45,679
Speaker 1: that was good, and you don't think about it again

1644
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:47,719
Speaker 1: the next day. Well, we knew from the early days

1645
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,160
Speaker 1: what kind of band we would like to be in,

1646
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:55,080
Speaker 1: and and we still wrestle with that challenge, and we

1647
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:58,960
Speaker 1: still documented, and that's where the live albums come in. Well, yeah,

1648
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:01,640
Speaker 1: let's go back to your point about you can be selfish.

1649
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:04,640
Speaker 1: Selfish has a bad connotation, but what you're saying is

1650
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:10,160
Speaker 1: you need your alone time. Does your present girlfriend of

1651
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:16,719
Speaker 1: long standing does she respect that or have you adjusted? Also,

1652
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,800
Speaker 1: of course there's the conundrum of needing your alone time

1653
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:23,799
Speaker 1: and then getting on stage two thousands. Well, first of all,

1654
01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:26,719
Speaker 1: the partner I've had for the longest time, we spend

1655
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 1: a lot of time apart. I'm in Sicily. She comes

1656
01:42:29,080 --> 01:42:31,280
Speaker 1: out a lot but we have a place also in Niece.

1657
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 1: She has her own life there, but of a business there,

1658
01:42:35,160 --> 01:42:41,440
Speaker 1: and never once has there been a complaint. She's busy.

1659
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 1: She does our thing and when we see each other

1660
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:47,040
Speaker 1: as great. When we don't, when we're not with each other,

1661
01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:54,960
Speaker 1: we're doing our own things. We're growing up, we're adults. Um.

1662
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:57,720
Speaker 1: I think we've at a certain age. You should get

1663
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 1: smart about things. There has to be space. There's got

1664
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 1: to be space, and certainly for for me, I spend

1665
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:08,639
Speaker 1: I mean, I get up. It's the irony. I thought

1666
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:10,280
Speaker 1: I'd get in a rock and roll band because I

1667
01:43:10,280 --> 01:43:11,880
Speaker 1: could lie in bed all day, and I find that

1668
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:15,080
Speaker 1: I'm wide awake at five in the morning. Doesn't matter

1669
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:18,519
Speaker 1: what it is. Um I never thought you would be

1670
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:21,120
Speaker 1: able to listen to rock music or right rock song

1671
01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 1: at five in the morning. Just doesn't seem the right thing.

1672
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 1: Believe me, you can. Your brain is sharp, it's clear.

1673
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:29,360
Speaker 1: The rest of the world there's not up yet. You

1674
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:31,639
Speaker 1: can get more done in those three or four hours

1675
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 1: than the rest of the day. Um So, And I'm

1676
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm very I'm very protective now of that. I said selfish,

1677
01:43:41,600 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 1: But you know, this is the stuff that brings home

1678
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 1: the corn. This is the stuff that puts food on

1679
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 1: the table. This is the stuff that puts a roof

1680
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:52,680
Speaker 1: over our heads. That's the way it works. There has

1681
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:55,200
Speaker 1: to be time. You've got to read, you've gotta listen,

1682
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:59,240
Speaker 1: you've gotta think, you have to room or try things

1683
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:02,519
Speaker 1: and get them wrong. It's a full on commitment. And

1684
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:05,320
Speaker 1: Charlie's the same now his kids are grown up. Um,

1685
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:08,120
Speaker 1: it's it's a full wee go there Monday Friday, we

1686
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:12,040
Speaker 1: work Monday Friday. And and of course we don't have

1687
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:14,599
Speaker 1: to do that. We don't have to in terms of

1688
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 1: being able to eat for the rest of our lives.

1689
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:19,559
Speaker 1: Are We're into it. That's what it is. It's a

1690
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:22,280
Speaker 1: sacred thing. If you have an art, it's it's sacred.

1691
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 1: And your archets jail. Your archet's jealous on you as

1692
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:30,160
Speaker 1: well if you stop doing that. The muscles, the creative muscles,

1693
01:44:30,160 --> 01:44:33,920
Speaker 1: and I believe there's such a thing. You know, they're

1694
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:38,439
Speaker 1: not long and this integrating. Um, it's hard to get

1695
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:41,640
Speaker 1: back on a horse. So you you really have to

1696
01:44:41,720 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 1: keep it. You you can't do it half measures and

1697
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 1: anyone around you. That's the deal. Like certainly understand the

1698
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:54,599
Speaker 1: selfish alone time. I mean, when I'm concentrate, I'm thinking

1699
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 1: like a percent fair. I don't like to be interrupted,

1700
01:44:58,240 --> 01:45:01,559
Speaker 1: and the average person just can't understand it because they're

1701
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 1: just used to go out. I go for days whereout

1702
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:08,840
Speaker 1: speaking to anyone. I mean, I just go for days

1703
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:11,040
Speaker 1: whether they're speaking to anyone. I mean, I'm also very

1704
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 1: I'm also very lucky it there is people who put

1705
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:23,599
Speaker 1: up with it um um. But I like a lot

1706
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:25,720
Speaker 1: of time alone. I mean, in sicily, as soon as

1707
01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:29,320
Speaker 1: I've done my three or four um hours in the

1708
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 1: morning working, whether I'm up in the hills, well, I mean,

1709
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:34,559
Speaker 1: so you come back to a biblical landscape. They only

1710
01:45:34,600 --> 01:45:39,000
Speaker 1: sound up. There's goatbells and crickets. But I don't meditate

1711
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 1: the way people conventional meditation. But that is my meditation.

1712
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:46,360
Speaker 1: You go walking, you hill walk, and you get into

1713
01:45:46,439 --> 01:45:53,080
Speaker 1: a pace you're breathing. Problems come at the forefront before

1714
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:55,000
Speaker 1: you know it. You've got to I've got an idea

1715
01:45:55,000 --> 01:45:58,760
Speaker 1: about that. Oh, I mean, I find all of that.

1716
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:02,760
Speaker 1: That's the only way I know how a function. I mean, unfortunately,

1717
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 1: I've asked my my kids, you know, because every well, Dad,

1718
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:07,040
Speaker 1: you were never there for us were there, you were

1719
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 1: all You're always there, you were always there somehow managed

1720
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:14,800
Speaker 1: to make it work. Um. But certainly in that thing,

1721
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:18,040
Speaker 1: I mean on the on tour, if it's a night off,

1722
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:21,360
Speaker 1: I'll never go out with the band, or and I

1723
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 1: go on my own, I go walk around the city,

1724
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 1: or I go whatever. Um. At the gig between four

1725
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:32,599
Speaker 1: o'clock and well after the sound check two eight o'clock,

1726
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't speak to anyone. I don't see anyone. Um.

1727
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 1: The great thing about of course, you get to save

1728
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:43,439
Speaker 1: your voice. Um. And then when it comes time to

1729
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:47,479
Speaker 1: spring into action and be present, whether it's on stage

1730
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:51,320
Speaker 1: or whether it's the participating in life with your friends

1731
01:46:51,400 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 1: or whatever, I'm fully there. I'm never there, and I'm

1732
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 1: never there but not there, if you know what I mean.

1733
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:02,519
Speaker 1: But that's the deal exactly. So a lot of you

1734
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:06,519
Speaker 1: know their legendary stories that people become successful, they buy

1735
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 1: their parents a house, they buy them a car. Did

1736
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:13,280
Speaker 1: you do anything like that all of that? And it

1737
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:16,160
Speaker 1: was with the greatest pleasure. I mean, I'll tell your

1738
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:18,920
Speaker 1: story here. That's pretty good because you know, Richard Brownson

1739
01:47:18,920 --> 01:47:21,360
Speaker 1: gets a bad rap. But I'll tell you this. So

1740
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:25,280
Speaker 1: when I was living in Uh. I told you, I

1741
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,640
Speaker 1: grew up in this high rise flat. And even when

1742
01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:32,439
Speaker 1: the band was still touring and just starting to break

1743
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 1: through and being in the newspaper, has been on TV,

1744
01:47:35,479 --> 01:47:37,800
Speaker 1: I think had their first hit, but we had all

1745
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:40,719
Speaker 1: that debt to pay off, so we didn't have money.

1746
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:43,920
Speaker 1: But I came back home and and I didn't have

1747
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:45,639
Speaker 1: a place in my own lit because we were always

1748
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 1: in tour, so why would I So I'd come back

1749
01:47:48,439 --> 01:47:53,760
Speaker 1: home and crash mom and Dad's council apartment. Well, I

1750
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:59,200
Speaker 1: came home and the irony because parents were always afraid

1751
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 1: when we get in this business, that would be drugs

1752
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:04,799
Speaker 1: around and we would all end up. They saw heroin

1753
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:08,479
Speaker 1: before I saw heroin because at that time it came

1754
01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 1: into Glasgow and it was starting to come into the

1755
01:48:11,080 --> 01:48:17,720
Speaker 1: housing projects and schemes. Anyway, I turned up and a

1756
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:22,679
Speaker 1: couple of houses you know, had become hangouts for drug

1757
01:48:23,000 --> 01:48:26,320
Speaker 1: drug addicts and stuff. So I thought, now, it's probably

1758
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:30,360
Speaker 1: about fifty pounds a week then and I heard about

1759
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:33,880
Speaker 1: this you can get a mortgage thing, and you know,

1760
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:38,600
Speaker 1: and back then, of course, the bank managers before the

1761
01:48:38,640 --> 01:48:42,280
Speaker 1: computer says no, the bank managers were kind of allowed

1762
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:46,880
Speaker 1: to um, go on a hunch, and my manager at

1763
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:49,639
Speaker 1: the time said, go along in the bank manager, simple

1764
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:52,880
Speaker 1: mains everyone in Glasgow No, simple mazer. He'll know you

1765
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 1: and he'll listen to you. So I saw this house.

1766
01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:59,000
Speaker 1: Mom and dad loved it. I couldn't see to my dad. Incidentally,

1767
01:48:59,040 --> 01:49:01,000
Speaker 1: I was buying it for them because you too too

1768
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:03,960
Speaker 1: much prayed. I said it was for me and they

1769
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:06,760
Speaker 1: would look after it while I wasn't tour because it

1770
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:10,160
Speaker 1: just would have felt wrong. So we saw this house.

1771
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 1: I think it costs sixty grand. Great part of Glasgow Garden.

1772
01:49:16,439 --> 01:49:19,200
Speaker 1: All of this just beautiful. Can't believe that no one

1773
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:21,040
Speaker 1: from our family has ever had a place like this.

1774
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:24,519
Speaker 1: So I go along the bank manager and I think

1775
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,680
Speaker 1: I'm all prepared, and he said, yep, yeah, my my

1776
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:31,479
Speaker 1: daughter loves you and you know she's been at the gigs.

1777
01:49:31,520 --> 01:49:35,600
Speaker 1: I know you're doing well and blah blah blah. What

1778
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:38,679
Speaker 1: what's going on? So I explained to him. I explained

1779
01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:43,800
Speaker 1: the situation and he listens to every word. Then he says, um.

1780
01:49:43,880 --> 01:49:45,960
Speaker 1: He says, well, that's great. I know that house. I

1781
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:48,719
Speaker 1: live in the area. I know the house you're talking about. Great,

1782
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:52,080
Speaker 1: so great, How are we going to do this, and

1783
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:55,360
Speaker 1: I said, well, you know the mortgage, you're gonna we're

1784
01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 1: gonna look at the mortgage and he said, yeah, what

1785
01:49:57,320 --> 01:50:01,200
Speaker 1: are you gonna give me? Meaning deposit? And I said,

1786
01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 1: what do you mean is you had a guarantee. I

1787
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:08,320
Speaker 1: think I was twenty two at the time. My guarantee, Bob.

1788
01:50:08,360 --> 01:50:13,479
Speaker 1: I tookout all these live reviews that that we're saying,

1789
01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:16,200
Speaker 1: you know, simple Mains, Band of the future, Simple Mains,

1790
01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:19,240
Speaker 1: They're gonna be huge. He looked at them and went,

1791
01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:21,479
Speaker 1: that's what you're gonna give me, these three or four

1792
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:25,200
Speaker 1: bits of paper. I said, yeah, look, I mean it's

1793
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:30,679
Speaker 1: it's we're happening. And he said, no, that's not how

1794
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 1: it works. You need to give me a deposit fift

1795
01:50:35,439 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 1: I said, well, I haven't got any money. He said, well,

1796
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what to say. And as

1797
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:45,320
Speaker 1: I was getting up, he said, do you know anyone

1798
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:49,799
Speaker 1: way any money? And I said no, no, I don't

1799
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:54,759
Speaker 1: um anyway. Two days later I got a call from him.

1800
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:59,559
Speaker 1: He says, I can't believe it. Richard Branson just phoned me.

1801
01:51:00,479 --> 01:51:06,200
Speaker 1: He's going to cover it. He's gonna cover it. We're

1802
01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 1: on if Richard Branson is going to cover it. We're

1803
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:13,960
Speaker 1: on and to this day I will always be thankful.

1804
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:15,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we have the whole thing with

1805
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:18,400
Speaker 1: record industries, and we know the record deals where you

1806
01:51:18,479 --> 01:51:20,920
Speaker 1: get screwed for people say well, at least the bank

1807
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:24,479
Speaker 1: when you pay them back. Well, you know, banks would

1808
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:27,479
Speaker 1: never have given your money and make records, but Richard

1809
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 1: Branson did and I will forever be grateful to him

1810
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:35,639
Speaker 1: for that. So, yeah, all of the band looked after

1811
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:40,000
Speaker 1: their parents and their stuff, and and you know now

1812
01:51:40,439 --> 01:51:42,840
Speaker 1: it's to do with the nieces and the nephews and

1813
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:47,280
Speaker 1: the sons and daughters, and we try to help out

1814
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:51,160
Speaker 1: there as well. So you have a new album in

1815
01:51:51,200 --> 01:51:54,720
Speaker 1: the pipeline, you obviously you're making the music because you're

1816
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:58,479
Speaker 1: driven to do that. What are your expectations? Most of

1817
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:01,160
Speaker 1: your contemporaries, if there's a together, don't even put out

1818
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:05,479
Speaker 1: new music. So you're doing this. Are you saying, well,

1819
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:07,519
Speaker 1: this is what I do, the fans will like it,

1820
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:10,840
Speaker 1: or you know, there's the old paradigm of having a hit.

1821
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:13,080
Speaker 1: Who even knows what it hit is? Today? Top forty

1822
01:52:13,160 --> 01:52:16,040
Speaker 1: is certainly in America does not play this kind of music.

1823
01:52:16,040 --> 01:52:19,240
Speaker 1: They're play popper hip hop. So I restate my point,

1824
01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:22,960
Speaker 1: what are your expectations? We'll go back if you have

1825
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:24,760
Speaker 1: the music and you you just have to make it.

1826
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:26,880
Speaker 1: That's it. If you've got songs, I mean, how are

1827
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,160
Speaker 1: you gonna stop? If it's still in you and still

1828
01:52:29,800 --> 01:52:32,880
Speaker 1: wants you know, wants to be held. When I say

1829
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:35,799
Speaker 1: wants to be held, I want to hear it, Charlie

1830
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:38,000
Speaker 1: wants I wants to hear it. We want to test

1831
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:42,040
Speaker 1: or say where artists. This isn't just a scam where artists.

1832
01:52:42,040 --> 01:52:45,720
Speaker 1: We've been doing this since we're fourteen sixty three. We've

1833
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:47,439
Speaker 1: been writing songs out of the lace. What are we

1834
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:50,960
Speaker 1: just gonna give that up? When you love it, when

1835
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:54,320
Speaker 1: you enjoy it, when it's how you see the world. No,

1836
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:57,000
Speaker 1: but we know the realities and you have just pointed

1837
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:59,719
Speaker 1: out many of them. As it happens again with simple Mans.

1838
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:03,840
Speaker 1: Were fortunate. Our records do break even. Okay, it's the

1839
01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:07,360
Speaker 1: hardcore and they buy them and all the formats, but

1840
01:53:08,120 --> 01:53:12,120
Speaker 1: they're made with budgets and it works. The biggest thing

1841
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:15,600
Speaker 1: is it refreshes everything. Now, I know you're not going

1842
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 1: to go and tour and play the whole record, but

1843
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:23,160
Speaker 1: if you two killer songs that can and think, you know,

1844
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:25,480
Speaker 1: if it's got to live up with your whole catalog,

1845
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:33,479
Speaker 1: and that's a great, great thing. It revitalizes everything, rejuvenates everything,

1846
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:36,680
Speaker 1: and you get to feel that you're just not in

1847
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:40,000
Speaker 1: a museum. You know that it's not just a museum.

1848
01:53:40,080 --> 01:53:43,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I know people do and affair on them,

1849
01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:48,479
Speaker 1: they go around. But we're artists, we're creative people. So

1850
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:51,880
Speaker 1: that's how we express ourselves. That's how There's always this

1851
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:54,160
Speaker 1: this thing of you know, one more swing at it,

1852
01:53:54,800 --> 01:54:00,080
Speaker 1: one more swing, maybe we'll write that song. Um, And

1853
01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:05,479
Speaker 1: for us it worked. So there's no way up until

1854
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:08,200
Speaker 1: now we have ever thought of given that up. What

1855
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 1: about the issue of playing that music live? Well, as

1856
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:14,639
Speaker 1: I said last night on this tour, I gotta tell

1857
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:20,920
Speaker 1: you we were out for four months. No Um. During

1858
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:24,639
Speaker 1: the week we played about anything between four or five people,

1859
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:27,720
Speaker 1: and at the weekend it gives up to ten or fifteen.

1860
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 1: It's not bad. We played twenty three songs um. Right

1861
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:38,160
Speaker 1: now the new album isn't coming out to October. We

1862
01:54:38,240 --> 01:54:41,320
Speaker 1: play a couple of songs now. The songs we play

1863
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 1: are not the slow, moody songs that the songs were

1864
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:49,480
Speaker 1: the big chunky choruses that even if you don't know them,

1865
01:54:49,640 --> 01:54:52,320
Speaker 1: audiences go, I don't know this, but I I like it.

1866
01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:55,879
Speaker 1: I'm getting it. So we always we play those those songs.

1867
01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:58,520
Speaker 1: And we played one last night for the first time,

1868
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:02,560
Speaker 1: a song called first You Jump, And today among all

1869
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:07,640
Speaker 1: our social networks, everyone's talking about it. Within our gang,

1870
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,280
Speaker 1: everyone's talking about it, and oh, we had twenty seconds

1871
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:15,120
Speaker 1: of the song. We had this it um it keeps

1872
01:55:15,160 --> 01:55:19,760
Speaker 1: the heartbeat going. So we've had this whole COVID situation,

1873
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:25,000
Speaker 1: but generally speaking, how much do you want to play live?

1874
01:55:25,080 --> 01:55:28,080
Speaker 1: How many dates in a year? And can you and

1875
01:55:28,200 --> 01:55:31,520
Speaker 1: where can you play? And where would you not have

1876
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:34,640
Speaker 1: an audience that you wish you could play? Well, you know,

1877
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:36,880
Speaker 1: it was great the last few years to get back

1878
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:39,240
Speaker 1: to America because there was a point what I thought

1879
01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:45,360
Speaker 1: maybe that was not going to happen, and there was

1880
01:55:45,400 --> 01:55:48,480
Speaker 1: a tour book there. Obviously didn't happen with the COVID

1881
01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:50,560
Speaker 1: no that, but it had the radio cities in it

1882
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:53,400
Speaker 1: and what simple amazing radio city. Wow. I didn't think

1883
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:58,440
Speaker 1: that's something I would see again, and others, I mean, yeah,

1884
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 1: there is still something about is that I wish I

1885
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:07,520
Speaker 1: wish at the time we had appreciated more, um working

1886
01:56:07,560 --> 01:56:11,360
Speaker 1: in America, really getting you know, so much of that

1887
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:13,720
Speaker 1: stuff is kind of mythical to us. We grew up

1888
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:16,240
Speaker 1: with the movies, we grew up with the music. I

1889
01:56:16,280 --> 01:56:21,320
Speaker 1: love going to those old halls now that are re refurbished,

1890
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:23,280
Speaker 1: and you look at the people who played them, not

1891
01:56:23,400 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 1: just musicians, actors and and and it's a guy in

1892
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:29,040
Speaker 1: the band, a big, big Beatles fan. He'll go the

1893
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:31,960
Speaker 1: Beatles played here in nine. I say, like, screw the Beatles,

1894
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:36,920
Speaker 1: the Marks Brothers played here. I mean it just I

1895
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:40,960
Speaker 1: wish we had worked more in America. Now, um we were,

1896
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:43,640
Speaker 1: We are getting the chance to go again. We will

1897
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:46,400
Speaker 1: go again, but probably for us it would be better

1898
01:56:46,440 --> 01:56:49,240
Speaker 1: to to to you know, hook up with another band

1899
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,000
Speaker 1: and and if you're going there, you may as well

1900
01:56:52,040 --> 01:56:56,000
Speaker 1: try and get across to a bigger audience. That's about

1901
01:56:56,040 --> 01:56:59,720
Speaker 1: the only place that that I wish we had worked more.

1902
01:57:00,520 --> 01:57:05,160
Speaker 1: Tell me about two peak experiences. Whether it'd be meeting someone,

1903
01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:09,520
Speaker 1: hearing your song on the radio, playing a gig, Well,

1904
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 1: there's that great thing. I'm meeting your heroes and you

1905
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:17,520
Speaker 1: should never meet your heroes, or meeting your heroes, and um,

1906
01:57:17,680 --> 01:57:21,040
Speaker 1: not only have I met many of my music heroes,

1907
01:57:21,120 --> 01:57:24,320
Speaker 1: I've I've got to even stand at a microphone with them.

1908
01:57:24,920 --> 01:57:27,160
Speaker 1: Are the ones that spring to mine is Peter Gabriel

1909
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:32,320
Speaker 1: who took us on tour and and you know the

1910
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:36,040
Speaker 1: humility and the sheer artistry of that guy, that was

1911
01:57:36,080 --> 01:57:40,480
Speaker 1: really something. Lou Reid, who we managed to do a

1912
01:57:40,520 --> 01:57:44,080
Speaker 1: cameo on one of our records, well, to me, that's

1913
01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:46,720
Speaker 1: the equivalent of having Picasso. I mean that was just

1914
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:52,400
Speaker 1: mind blowing. But the story we tell a lot of

1915
01:57:52,440 --> 01:57:54,880
Speaker 1: a good, great story because for people our generation, David

1916
01:57:54,920 --> 01:57:57,800
Speaker 1: Boye was the guy, and I'll tell you a story

1917
01:57:57,840 --> 01:58:01,800
Speaker 1: of them. You have heard of the famous studio. It's

1918
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:07,440
Speaker 1: actually in Wales called Rockfield Studios and it's a country studio.

1919
01:58:08,480 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 1: So um, we were booked in to go there and

1920
01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 1: we turned up and it's really rural. There's two studios

1921
01:58:17,360 --> 01:58:19,520
Speaker 1: and we're booked into the little studio and as we're

1922
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:22,800
Speaker 1: turning up we're thinking, I wonder who's in the big,

1923
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:26,240
Speaker 1: big studio. I want to watch stars there. It was

1924
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:29,680
Speaker 1: the most unlikely thing, but Iggy Pop was there? What

1925
01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:34,000
Speaker 1: Iggy Pop in the Welsh country side? This is eight,

1926
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:38,560
Speaker 1: not seventy nine. Maybe, um, Iggy pops there. We're all

1927
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:42,400
Speaker 1: Iggy fans. We can't believe it, but you know, um,

1928
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:44,960
Speaker 1: it turns out one of the guys in the band,

1929
01:58:45,120 --> 01:58:49,720
Speaker 1: Barry Andrews, we had met him on tour. He was

1930
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:51,680
Speaker 1: a bit of a fan. So when the Eggy sessions

1931
01:58:52,760 --> 01:58:55,040
Speaker 1: we're finished, he would come over and tell us what

1932
01:58:55,080 --> 01:59:00,440
Speaker 1: was going on. And at the time Iggy was always

1933
01:59:00,440 --> 01:59:03,880
Speaker 1: getting the confused on the wagon. He was clean and

1934
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:08,360
Speaker 1: he wasn't drinking, and he wasn't anything well until we

1935
01:59:08,520 --> 01:59:12,440
Speaker 1: turned up. That was because at midnight every night, it

1936
01:59:12,520 --> 01:59:16,000
Speaker 1: was always like a a cat creeping over the wall.

1937
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:18,360
Speaker 1: He would come out of our place. And we were

1938
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:20,600
Speaker 1: young guys. We brought a lot of things with us

1939
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:26,200
Speaker 1: to the countryside, including pretty girls and and all the

1940
01:59:26,240 --> 01:59:29,040
Speaker 1: other goodies. And then he would come in every day

1941
01:59:29,040 --> 01:59:30,320
Speaker 1: and we just canna be like, you know, we just

1942
01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:33,880
Speaker 1: sit at the feet of James Austerberg and it just

1943
01:59:33,880 --> 01:59:37,480
Speaker 1: just agreed it. And one lady says something about, oh, well,

1944
01:59:37,600 --> 01:59:42,840
Speaker 1: David's coming up on Saturday, and we're sure, what I

1945
01:59:42,840 --> 01:59:45,400
Speaker 1: wonder if it's the David we're all thinking of, But yeah,

1946
01:59:45,480 --> 01:59:51,160
Speaker 1: David's coming up David's coming up again Saturday afternoon, said

1947
01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:54,880
Speaker 1: that's you know, there's a limit? Does a Bentley pulling

1948
01:59:54,960 --> 02:00:00,560
Speaker 1: up outside this country? Lane? Boy gets out. I think

1949
02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:05,000
Speaker 1: the album was being produced by M James. I forget

1950
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:08,520
Speaker 1: the other guy's name from the studges um um anyway,

1951
02:00:09,920 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 1: without hours or punt of this chaos boys taken over

1952
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:16,840
Speaker 1: and all manner of breaknast. We're hearing as kind of

1953
02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:19,360
Speaker 1: through the wall, but we don't think we're going to

1954
02:00:19,440 --> 02:00:24,680
Speaker 1: be pretty to any of it. And run about midnight,

1955
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:29,280
Speaker 1: Eggie walks in again, and I can't believe it's a vision.

1956
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:32,960
Speaker 1: It just seems so unlikely. Boys with them. He's wearing

1957
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:36,600
Speaker 1: this black we call him boilers suit, like a kind

1958
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:41,280
Speaker 1: of industrial suit. He's got a ton of hy nicking

1959
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:45,960
Speaker 1: in his hand and a huge bit of shedar cheese.

1960
02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 1: It's the most unlikely. And they came in and they're

1961
02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:53,480
Speaker 1: looking for something to smoke, and they're looking for and

1962
02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:58,400
Speaker 1: her crew have got plenty of that. And then Boy said,

1963
02:00:58,600 --> 02:01:01,320
Speaker 1: tell you what, asking what are you doing? What's this?

1964
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:04,480
Speaker 1: He said, listen, we're working in this song and we

1965
02:01:04,560 --> 02:01:07,160
Speaker 1: need a chorus. We need like a football courtus, we

1966
02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:09,800
Speaker 1: need a chance, we need ten people, Why don't you

1967
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:13,240
Speaker 1: all come in so we get to trip through into

1968
02:01:13,240 --> 02:01:16,920
Speaker 1: the next studio. I mean, can you imagine Bob none, none,

1969
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:19,040
Speaker 1: None of us had a camera. No one had a camera.

1970
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:21,840
Speaker 1: Back then, no one walked around with a camera. So

1971
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:24,680
Speaker 1: we go in and Boie is very much taken over.

1972
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:28,480
Speaker 1: It's a song called play It's safe. I mean, unless

1973
02:01:28,480 --> 02:01:30,240
Speaker 1: the record was there, I would still be thinking I

1974
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:34,280
Speaker 1: was imagining all of this is so unlikely. But he

1975
02:01:34,360 --> 02:01:37,480
Speaker 1: guesses around the microphone and it's the chortus, and every

1976
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:41,880
Speaker 1: wants to jump in and sing this quotas and bit

1977
02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:44,240
Speaker 1: by bit, but we start saying like people who don't

1978
02:01:44,280 --> 02:01:49,280
Speaker 1: sing professionally step back, and at the point there was

1979
02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:53,080
Speaker 1: only iggy boy, I can't believe I'm seeing this, and

1980
02:01:53,120 --> 02:02:00,640
Speaker 1: myself standing at the microphone. And as I say, if

1981
02:02:00,640 --> 02:02:03,240
Speaker 1: that record hadn't been released with the credits on it,

1982
02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:07,000
Speaker 1: I could see people thinking that never happened. But it

1983
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:10,040
Speaker 1: did did happen. So that was a particularly great moment.

1984
02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:12,600
Speaker 1: But I think the moment that really tops it all

1985
02:02:13,640 --> 02:02:17,400
Speaker 1: was when we played At the time it was called

1986
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:24,080
Speaker 1: the Nelson Mandela Birthday Parties seventieth birthday were they were

1987
02:02:24,080 --> 02:02:27,760
Speaker 1: still calling for his freedom, and we had a big

1988
02:02:27,800 --> 02:02:29,680
Speaker 1: part of that. We wrote a song for it and

1989
02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:35,040
Speaker 1: Lo and behold again. Less than a year later, Mandela

1990
02:02:36,120 --> 02:02:39,360
Speaker 1: walked out and he came to London to thank all

1991
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:42,880
Speaker 1: the artists who were involved. And that was a really

1992
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:47,320
Speaker 1: special moment because little Stephen Bonsan was there. Gabriel every

1993
02:02:47,480 --> 02:02:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you do those events and when you

1994
02:02:49,000 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 1: write those songs, you're fully committed, but there is a

1995
02:02:52,040 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 1: voice in your head saying does it matter? Does it

1996
02:02:55,040 --> 02:03:00,600
Speaker 1: really matter? Does can music really change? Were old events

1997
02:03:01,960 --> 02:03:04,520
Speaker 1: and to him and delacy he explained to all. He said,

1998
02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 1: listen when it was a great thing. He said, when

1999
02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:10,320
Speaker 1: there was no voice allowed, we somehow always held the

2000
02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:12,760
Speaker 1: voice of the artist. Now that may have been the writers,

2001
02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:19,600
Speaker 1: the poets, the painters, the songwriters, and that was quite

2002
02:03:19,760 --> 02:03:26,320
Speaker 1: an amazing thing, um to be in the presence of him. Well,

2003
02:03:26,360 --> 02:03:28,480
Speaker 1: on that note, I think we're gonna call it a

2004
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:32,560
Speaker 1: day today. Man, Jim, you're unbelievable, You're intelligent, you tell

2005
02:03:32,600 --> 02:03:35,720
Speaker 1: a great story. I could talk for hours more. I

2006
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:39,200
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for doing this My pleasure, Bob,

2007
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:42,120
Speaker 1: keep up with good work. Love listening to the podcast.

2008
02:03:42,160 --> 02:03:46,360
Speaker 1: So many of the people you talked to, people who

2009
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:50,560
Speaker 1: influenced me, or it's it's it's just wonderful. And also

2010
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:54,040
Speaker 1: a few places where we can listen to this kind

2011
02:03:54,040 --> 02:03:56,040
Speaker 1: of thing. So I say that really is a fan

2012
02:03:56,120 --> 02:04:00,160
Speaker 1: of the show and and of the writings. Well, I'm

2013
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:03,760
Speaker 1: smiling broadly. People can't see that on an audio podcast

2014
02:04:03,920 --> 02:04:28,360
Speaker 1: until next time. This is Bob Left sets h