1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Live and from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: The parties are divided in terms of the effect that 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: the stimulus is going to have. This inflation debate has 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: really been heating up the effect of what the Biden 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: administration is spending on political capital. Bloomberg Sound on the insiders, 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: the influencers, the insides, A group of centrists are the 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: key senators to watch Gill Biden get. Number one focus 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: in addition to the COVID health crisis is jobs. I 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: don't quickly have red roads and blue roads, and that's 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: the way we're looking at this. Schoomberg Sound On with 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg Radio signs to talk about China. 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: This says the United States leads the way with European 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: allies as well as the United Kingdom and Canada and 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: issuing targeted sanctions against Chinese officials for their wrongdoing against 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: wager Muslim minorities. Plus, we got the latest from Capitol Hill. 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: We check in with Congresswoman Caroline mal Anio. My name 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: is Kevin Surli. I'm the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: Television and for Bloomberg Radio, accompanied none other by my 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: colleague Bloomberg Politics contributor Jennie shawan Zano, as well as 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: Sarah Chamberlain. Sarah is the president and CEO of Republican 21 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: Main Street Partnership, which is a group that promotes centrist Republicans. 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: It's great to have both of you with us. We 23 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: begin tonight with the Big Story, a geopolitical story. The U, S, 24 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: UK and Canada joined the European Union to impose sanctions 25 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: against China over alleged human rights abuses on the Whiggers 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: in Shinjang, drawing an immediate reaction from Beijing. The EU 27 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: kick things off with sanctions the target for Chinese nationals 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: and one entity. The US, Canada and the UK sharing 29 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: the Group of Seven meetings this year, largely mirrored these 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: actions that are largely symbolic and unlikely to impact China's 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: economy or behavior. However, the U. S. Treasury said that 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: it had sanctioned to these officials in connection with serious 33 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: human rights abuses against ethnic minorities in Sinjang. Chinese authorities 34 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: will continue to face consequences as long as atrocities occur 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: in Sinjang, said Andrea Ghaki, who is the director of 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: the Office of Foreign Assets Control o FAK and a statement. 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: We begin tonight with sound on from White House Press 38 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: Secretary jen Saki regarding last week's meeting between Secretary of 39 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: State Tony B. Lincoln and National Security Advisor Director UH 40 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: Jake Sullivan in Alaska. Take a listen to the sound 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: on this. Regarding the meeting, I know there's been a 42 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: lot of focus on some of the public theatrics or um, 43 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, more dramatic public peace, but I can assure 44 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: you from talking to our national security team that it 45 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: was a substantive meeting. Coming up, we're going to check 46 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: in with her Garshamali, CEO of Greenwich Media Strategies and 47 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: a former Treasury Sanctions Department official in both the Republican 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: and Democratic administrations. But Jennie, it's just remarkable to see 49 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: the conversation that we were having on Friday with Keith Kroc, 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: formerly of the State's Apartment, and now just seeing the 51 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: the geopolitical rally that has occurred, so to speak, and 52 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: the first step I'm told against a broader strategy for 53 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: the actions of the Communist Party in shin Cheng. I 54 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: was thinking back to our conversation last week as well 55 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: and it is um you know, I think a good 56 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: first step that the administration with its allies, which has 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: been very important of course to the Biden administration to 58 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: work with allies not to go it alone, are taking 59 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: but even just in what you were just relating, of course, 60 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: these are not going to have much of an impact. 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: So I I think of this as the first step. 62 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: But we need to see how they are going to 63 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: address this going forward and whether they can continue to 64 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: have the support of their allies as they do that, 65 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: and oh, as we talked about last week, continue to 66 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: work with China on things we need to work with 67 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: them on like health and climate and other issues. So 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: it's a very very difficult line for the US and 69 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: it's allies to walk here visa of each China. So 70 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: the EU, this is what what caught my attention, Genie, 71 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: is the EU started first, and there's been a lot 72 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: of talk in Washington on both sides of the aisle 73 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: as to whether or not the EU would join the 74 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: United States and in some of the tactics and the 75 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: playbook in order to handle the Communist Party at China. 76 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: But clearly this show is that they're willing to work 77 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: with the United States, with the UK and with Canada 78 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: and broader set of allies. UH. On this particular issue, 79 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: they are and we were talking about that. You know, 80 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: can you know is has Beijing It seems like it 81 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: is really you know, as you described last week, got 82 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: in the wind at its at its back here feels 83 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: people say that, let me correct, Yes, yes, they present 84 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: as they're emboldened. And hence you know what those sort 85 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: of back and forth in Alaska last week, UM, in 86 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: part because they feel that the US is a bit 87 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: weekend and it's a bit like isolated from some of 88 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: its allies after four years of the Trump administration. But 89 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: to your point, the e use, you know, taking this 90 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: first step and leading the way on this does fly 91 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: in the face of that. So this question of whether 92 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: Beijing should feel as emboldened as it seems to I 93 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: think has got to be asked at this point. I 94 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: think that's a great point. Uh. And the Chinese Communist 95 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: Party responded, UH, And they said they said they will 96 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: sanction ten individuals and four entities on the EU side, 97 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: saying that the measures quote harm China's sovereignty and interest 98 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: end quote. UH. And they denied these the horrific allegations. Uh, Sarah, 99 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: just talk to me about the politics of China before 100 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: we head back to domestic economic issues. Especially, this seems 101 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: to be an issue that Republicans and Democrats agree on. 102 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: He sure does. I I will say that President Trump 103 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: started talking about China four years ago, and I agree 104 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: we should have done more with our allies around us. 105 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: And I like to see I like the fact that 106 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: President Mine is working with our allies on us. But 107 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: China is a huge problem. They're becoming a world problem, 108 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: and both parties, Repocans of Democrats have to understand that 109 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: and work with our allies. So yeah, this is an 110 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: area we agree. There aren't many, but this is definitely 111 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: one of them. You know, it's a nice day in spring. 112 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: There's agreement in the air. It's it's it feels here 113 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: in Washington, das. I don't know what the weather is 114 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: around the country. I don't get out much out of 115 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: DC these days because of the whole social distancing. But 116 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: the city did Genie enter into a new phase of 117 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: reopening today, So there seems to be some new energy 118 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: in the nation's capital. Speaking of energy, let's pivot now 119 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: to domestic economic Uh. Domestic economics everyone's talking about taxes 120 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: in the financial services world of Washington. Earlier today, um uh, 121 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: White House Council of Economic Advisors Member Heather Bouche discussed 122 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: the wealth tax, and she did it on Bloomberg Television 123 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: with my colleague Lisa A. Brandmon Witz. Take a listen 124 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: to this sound on taxes, uh from the White House 125 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: Council of Economic Advisors member how the brouchet here she is. 126 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: I think what's important here is that we really recognize 127 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: that folks at the top have done been able to 128 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: maintain their incomes for the most part, their jobs, assets 129 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: have been okay, so um so, they have been less hurt. 130 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: And really it's those folks in the bottom third, that 131 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: bottom part of the k that have been hardest hit 132 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: by the pandemic and are struggling the most in this recovery. So, Sarah, 133 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: you represent a group of centrist Republicans. The administration is 134 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: talking about increasing taxes on top income earners who earn 135 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: more than four hundred thous dollars annually and have been 136 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: less hurt. The administration argues by the economic impact of 137 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: the pandemic, while the poor in the middle class have 138 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: continued to struggle. Is this something that garners popularity amongst 139 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: Republicans because well, first, what do you what does the 140 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: data show you in terms of where Republicans are on 141 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: increasing taxes on the wealthy, that they do not want 142 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: their taxes increased. They think it's I mean, they knew 143 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: would Biden being elected, that it would probably become, Um, 144 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: you know the reality, but they're really opposed to it. 145 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,559 Speaker 1: You know, the upper percentage American people are spending money 146 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: which is triggering down and you know it's working. And 147 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: if without COVID, the tax cuts would have not have 148 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: been an issue because you know, the economy would have 149 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: been booming with COVID coming. You know, it has slowly 150 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: economy down obviously, Um, but it would be a real 151 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: shame if the taxes go up again. But they will, 152 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: I mean they're going to. I don't think there's much 153 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: you know, we can do to prevent that. Um, you know, 154 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: it just it is what it is. But I think 155 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: one of the reasons he got send me two million votes, 156 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: President drump is because people do not want their taxes 157 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: going back up. The people who are making over four 158 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year feel that they're paying a 159 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: great deal in taxes and they're paying their fair sure, Sarah, 160 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: your your your response, you nope, Nope, they don't want 161 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: their taxes raised. I think that's right across the were 162 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: true for all of us. But let me just ask 163 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: you because one of the things that struck me um, 164 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: and it was such a good interview that Lisa did 165 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: with Heather, and I was listening, and one thing I 166 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: did not hear Heather talk about, or I did not 167 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: hear them talk about as much as I would have liked, 168 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: UM is something that actually, Kevin, you talk a lot 169 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: about so Um, Sarah wanted to throw it to you. 170 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: Is this issue of retraining and job skills, right, you 171 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: know they're talking about the answer to I agree where 172 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: this k shape recovery. Taxes may need to be raised. 173 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: But what is your view on this idea that you 174 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: know I've been talking about that it can't stop there. 175 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: You've got to get these people retrained for new jobs 176 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: that have gone away in the pandemic. So my the 177 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: Republican Mainstream Partnership members on that we have to have training. Um. 178 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: There are jobs frankly in this country even before COVID 179 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: are going away. So we have to train our society 180 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: to take jobs they're being created, and and that's a huge, 181 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: huge issue. And the main street members are happy to 182 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: invest money into workforce training and retraining. So the headline 183 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: in the Bloomberg terminal, I don't know if you if 184 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: you saw this today, it's a great story by my colleagues, 185 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: by my colleague Nancy Cook. Biden determined to tax rich 186 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: after windfalls during crisis. Key AIDS have worked on proposals 187 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: to tax wealthy for years. The impetus for revamping tax 188 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: regime grew with the K shaped recovery. President Joe Biden's 189 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: economic team at the White House is determined to make 190 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: good on his campaign pledge to raise taxes on the rich, 191 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: emboldened by mounting data showing how well America's wealthy did 192 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: financially during the pandemic. This has Elizabeth Senator Elizabeth Warren 193 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: all over it. Sarah Chamberlain, I mean, we had her 194 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: on the the other week where she's calling on taxes, 195 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: for for raising taxes on billionaires, on the wealthy. But 196 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: politically for the Democrats, this is a very popular proposal, 197 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: is not. I mean, this is this is what's the 198 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: what's the opposite of red meat. I don't want to 199 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: say blue meat. I mean like, go ahead. My my 200 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: metaphors are a little rusty. It's Monday, go ahead, and 201 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: actually I don't even know what that is, but that's 202 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: what they're doing. They're throwing to their base and uh 203 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: and it is equivalent to the red meat. But you know, again, 204 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: there's only so much the top players that can pay 205 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: in taxes. I mean, we have to revamp and look 206 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: at a wide range of where the financial structure in 207 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: this country is and how we're spending our money. And 208 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: we can get into COVID and all of that, but 209 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: the reality is there's only so much you can text 210 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: the upper one percent. What about permits? Right, yeah, we'll 211 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: talk more about this coming up. What about permits you 212 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: want to create? You want to get rid of the 213 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: semiconductor shortage chip? About the permit process? That's what the 214 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: Republicans are saying. I'm Kevin, is really much more with 215 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: the All Star Policy Panel panel coming up. Because I 216 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: said red meat and now I want a cheese steak. 217 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. Sound on with Kevin 218 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. My name is Kevin, Sir. Really I 219 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: am the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for 220 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Coming up, Congresswoman Caroline Maloney, Democrat from New York. 221 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: What a interesting day to have a New York representative on. 222 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: I'm joined by the All Star Policy Panel, Jeanie shan 223 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: Zeno Bloomberg Politics contributor, and Sarah Chamberlain, President and CEO 224 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: of Republican for Main Street Partnership, which promotes centrist Republican Sarah, 225 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: did you hear about that? Congressman Tom read news he's 226 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: not going to run for governor to challenge well New 227 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: York politics right now as a mess, but he's not 228 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: gonna run because of some inappropriate alligator or inappropriate conduct allegations. 229 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: He released a statement said he's not going to run 230 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: for governor UM, but he'll finish out his term. So actually, 231 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: Kevin to be honest with them, very close with both 232 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: Tom and his family. UM. I think the whole thing 233 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: is sad. He has a drinking problem. He's been dry 234 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: for four years and don't condone what he did. He 235 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: truly doesn't remember doing it, but he believes the woman's 236 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: um take on it. He the only believes that what 237 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: she said, and then he owned it and announced he 238 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: will not speak any any office in UM. So I 239 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: think that's sad. I think it's a huge loss. And 240 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I give him a tenenace 241 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: amount of credit. And uh, you know, Como, I think 242 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: she'd foul the lead. I mean, they're not I think 243 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: Como has eight women that have come out and has 244 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: done nothing. UM. So you know, Tom, I I hope 245 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: he continues to UM, stay sober and and has a 246 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: great life with his family. Jennie come in here, you know, 247 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: living in New York. UM. And I and I agree, Sarah, 248 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: I think he deserves a lot of credit. UM. And 249 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: you know, obviously what happened is horrific, but he deserves 250 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: credit for coming out quickly and saying he's not going 251 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: to seek either re election or run for governor. M 252 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: As we talk about New York, a place where I live, UM, 253 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: we've long called it the most corrupt state in the Union. UM. 254 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: We go back and forth, we switch usually between us 255 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: in Illinois. UM, but it's we've got a lot of 256 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: host of issues here UM that are much much deeper. 257 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: And one of the unfortunate things I think about the 258 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: Cuomo and now read situation as much of that has 259 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: not been discussed, um, except when it comes out in 260 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: these sort of you know, horrific stories. But there's good 261 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: reason that we have such a corrupt system here that 262 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: needs to be addressed. It's everything from the parties to 263 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: the way that we run our elections. I mean you 264 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: can go right down the list. Um, and that allowed 265 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: things like the governor to um exert the power he 266 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: has over the last several years, and um, you know, 267 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. And the nursing home scandal got lost in this, 268 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: which is also unfortunate. The my colleague grind Seed back 269 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: with and Henry Goldman have a story out on the terminal. 270 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: Cuomo adopts campaign tactics to cling to job as probe proceeds. 271 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're both New Yorkers at what genie? 272 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, what what are you hearing from from your 273 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: colleagues in terms of just whether or not Governor Cuomo 274 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: can hang onto this. I am hearing. I'm hearing a 275 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: mixed message. His poll numbers in the last few polls 276 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: seemed to public. Polls seemed to be dropping a bit 277 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: of certainly New Yorkers do not want him to run again. 278 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: Um he is, you know, looking for support, particularly in 279 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: the African American community in New York. But let's not 280 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: forget this is somebody who all New Yorkers who have 281 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: paid attention have known, going back to the campaign against 282 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: against Ed Coach, which was horrific. Um has acted in 283 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: in a manner that can only be described as deplorable 284 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: and um so, and obviously I should say he denies 285 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: the allegations about Ed Coach. But you know, there are 286 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: so many stories that have come out that this cannot 287 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: be a surprise for anybody who's paid attention. But if 288 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: I could just bring in the media here. Part of 289 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: the issue is that as local media around the country 290 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: unfortunately dies off, a lot of what happens in our 291 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: state capitals and our local communities is lost. So these 292 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: things when they come out. Um, Karl Hyasin had a great, 293 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: great piece as he retired down in Florida about this. 294 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: It's a huge problem. Corruption rampant at the state and 295 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: local levels and uncovered because we don't have pressed there 296 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: to do it. Let's take that. Let's rip up the script. Sarah, 297 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: go ahead, because let's rip up the script. My friend 298 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: and mentor Tom ken You, by the way, is on 299 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: spring break this week and as off all week. Tom, 300 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: if you're listening, is he always listening? Go ahead? I know, Tom, 301 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: come on, go ahead. York as well. I'm actually from 302 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, Tom leads district, and you are absolutely right. 303 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: The also the local reporters and the local media has 304 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: been a huge crisis, especially in New York. And you know, 305 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: this should be talked about more um up home in 306 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: the district that I'm from, you know, Tom Reid is 307 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: people are all over. They have mixed opinions and whether 308 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: or not he should have, you know, announced he's not 309 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: seeking higher office, but they do not have mixed opinions 310 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: on Como. They think Como needs to go. And these 311 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: are even Democrats that I'm talking to a poem, and 312 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: they do not understand how he's continuing to survive. I mean, 313 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: it's shocking. Let's rip up, let's let's go a little 314 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: global on this. And Genie, you and I had interviewed 315 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: last week Congressman Ken Buck, a Republican from Colorado. Maybe 316 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: it was Rick Davis. I apologize, but uh just really 317 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: fascinating to see the deal that Facebook, uh struck with 318 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: news corps for content in Australia, just in terms of 319 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: the local news in Australia, and many people including Congressman 320 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: mbuck Is, a Republican from Colorado, or suggesting that could 321 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: be the foundation for the social media platforms here in 322 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: the United States to encourage there to be local news 323 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: in places like UH state halls and state capitals all 324 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: around around the country. But to your point, I mean, 325 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: it's just a fascinating it's it's where the geopolitics, the 326 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: policy as well as these local state level could UH scandals. 327 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: It's all right there and there's no local reporters to 328 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: cover it. It's just a harrowing sign of the times. 329 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Sirley. This is joining us on the line 330 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: and returned to the program. Congresswoman Caroline Maloney. She's a 331 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: Democrat from New York. She is a member of the 332 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: Financial Services Committee. I want to talk with you about 333 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: taxes before we get to another hearing that you had today. 334 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: The Biden administration corner Simon says that they want to 335 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: raise taxes on Americans who earn more than four hundred 336 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: thousand dollars annually. Republicans, as you know, they say we 337 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: should be lowering the corporate tax rate or keeping it 338 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: where it is to attract foreign investment. I mean I 339 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean where where's the Caucus on this? 340 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: And where are the Democrats on financial services on this? 341 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: This year, well, right now, we've been focused very much 342 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: on the American Recovery Act, which send and is sending 343 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: over one point nine trillion dollars back to people in 344 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: direct payments and hospitals, infrastructure, on loans for small businesses, 345 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: and to get our economy moving again. And then next 346 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: on the agenda is the Infrastructure Investment Plan that we've 347 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: been instructed to work on and to complete and and 348 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: then possibly we'll move to Texas. Right now, there hasn't 349 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: really been a discussion in the Caucus on taxes because 350 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: we've been so focused on getting in record time one 351 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: point nine trillion dollars back out to the American people. 352 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: And we UH have also prioritized vaccinations and getting everyone 353 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: vaccinated as quickly as possible, and we've been meeting our 354 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: deadlines and our goals, and that at first up he 355 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: wanted to get everybody vaccinated by the end of of 356 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: the first one days, to have a hundred million people vaccinated. 357 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: When we did, he did it in fifty eight days, 358 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: and and now he's saying that he wants to get 359 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: everybody vaccinated by the end of June, appointment by the 360 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: end of May. So we've been very focused on using 361 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: the Defense Production Act and every single resource we have 362 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: to get the vaccinations out to the American people were 363 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: in a race against the virus, and the virus is 364 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: winning as long as they we have an achieved heard 365 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: immunity and gotten the number of people vaccinated out there 366 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: ahead of the number of people that have been infected. 367 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: So that's been the priorities right now. We'll get to 368 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: taxes eventually. Right now, we're focused on on the other items, 369 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: most specifically getting everybody vaccinated. That's what I'm spending all 370 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: my time. Yeah, well, I think a lot of people 371 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: want all the shots to go out. It's just been 372 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: such a crazy newsday for New York politics. I know 373 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: you and your colleague Jerry Nadler, who uh you guys 374 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: have called on Governor Cuomo to resign. Do you have 375 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: any confidence that he's going to listen to his colleagues 376 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: in terms of resignation. Well, he's already said he's not 377 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: going to resist. And I think that uh, Speaker Hasty 378 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: has called for an investigation, actually three and investigations, and 379 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: our Attorney General Kiss James is conducting them now. Um. 380 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: One on sexual harassment and the allegations that have come forward, 381 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: another on the nursing home numbers, and another on the 382 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: tapan Zee bridge. So there are three different investigations, and uh, 383 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: we'll see what the I think the Assembly is going 384 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: to stay until you see the results of those investigations. 385 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: But if he's indicted or if the investigations come back 386 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: with proof, then uh, then I would expect that he 387 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: would be impeached by the by the Assembly, but who knows. 388 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: It's a separate body, and and they're conducting their review, 389 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: um and UM. And many believe he's totally entitled to 390 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: do process and that's taking place right now. You are 391 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: the chairwoman of the House Committee on Oversight and Reform. 392 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: And I got to be honest here, this issue has 393 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: gotten much more traction in recent months then I think 394 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: people realize. But you had a heated DC statehood hearing today, um. 395 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: And there's this re newed effort for Washington, d C. 396 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: To become the fifty first state Mayor Muriel Bowser Uh 397 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: testified on it. How realistic of a possibility is this? 398 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: Why what I don't understand. I live in d C. 399 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: I get the whole taxation without representation argument, but how 400 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: realistic is it to just stick another star on the flag? 401 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: Why not either break the district? Some go to Maryland, 402 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: some go to Virginia. Are there other things being discussed 403 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: other than just DC should be its own state? Well, 404 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: I we are really looking at this, at this bill, 405 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: and and last year we had a hearing on it. 406 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons people are discussing it more 407 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: is that it put a spotlight and sort of explained 408 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: it to people and it's it's uh. And that's why 409 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: we're going through regular order now for at least two reasons. First, 410 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: we want to build a legislative record for an inevitable 411 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: court challenge. And secondly, we want to use this hearing 412 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: and mark up and four vote to educate the American 413 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: people and the undecided Democratic senators on white statehood is 414 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: the right thing to do and constitutional. Now, there were 415 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about Democrats just want to power grab, 416 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: they want to steal two Senate seats, and this type 417 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: of talk, but the real power grab is denying seven 418 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: and twelve hundred thousand tax pain the right to vote. 419 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: And this isn't about politics. It's about fundamental voting and 420 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: civil rights issues. And I think it's outrageous that the 421 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: Republicans would play partisan politics just to block seven and 422 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: twelve thousand Americans from having full equality and democracy. But 423 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: what I don't understand is why, and maybe I don't 424 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: understand why there aren't other solutions or other policies or 425 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: maybe even compromise. You know, where there's seven hundred plus 426 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: thousand people who are tax without representation, I get that, 427 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: but still no talk about whether or not parts go 428 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: to Virginia or parts go to Maryland or or whatnot. 429 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. It just seems that there could be, uh, 430 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: some other solutions, but this this seems to be a 431 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: very part as an issue, as you just alluded to, 432 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: and not one where folks want to compromise. Well, the 433 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: Republicans did not put forward any other alternative, so it's 434 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: hard to discuss an alternative if it's not even on 435 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: the table. Right now. We have and I think when 436 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: you look at the at the statistics about it, DC 437 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: pays more in federal taxes than twenty one states, and 438 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: more per capita than any state in the nation. And 439 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: it has a larger population than two states Wyoming, Vermont. 440 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: I didn't realize. So that's that's really quite something. And 441 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: and they are states. And despite all our problems, I 442 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: know you gotta run Congress, someone, Caroline Maloney. I know 443 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: you gotta run. But I'm telling you, folks, that is 444 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: the sleeper issue right there, DC Statehood. It's fascinating, like 445 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: a nerd out on it. Thank you to the Chairwoman 446 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: Maloney of Oversight and Reform. I'm Kevin Surrey more. Next, 447 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg's Sound On with Kevin 448 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: Silly on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Kevin CEREALI Chief Washington correspondent 449 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio. Accompanied by none other 450 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: than Genie Shanzano. She is Bloomberg Politics contributor Genie. I 451 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: gotta say I feel like the pandemic the the end 452 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: is in sight for the pandemic era. A friend of 453 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: mine used that term over the weekend, and I'm gonna 454 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: steal it from her. Pandemic era is coming to a close. 455 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's over. Wear a mask, wash your hands, 456 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: don't touch your face, get the shot. But it does 457 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: feel that with this spring awakening, that things are some 458 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: The pandemic here is coming to an end. It does 459 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: from your lips, Kevin SURREALI I don't want to talk 460 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: about what's going on in Paris. That really frightens me. 461 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: So this makes me feel much better. And I feel, 462 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, as more people get vaccinated and the numbers increase, 463 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: you just I try not to look at what's happening 464 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: in Miami and Paris, and I feel better. And for me, 465 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: it's like the weather. The weather is good. I'm good 466 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: joining us on the line. She's always good on geopolitics. 467 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: Cigar Shamali, CEO of Greenwich Media Strategy, former Treasury Department officials. 468 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: She served in both UH Democratic and Republican administrations. Are 469 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: these China sanctions that have been dominating my world of 470 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: coverage for the day are fascinating? I think the biggest 471 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: question mark hetting into the Biden administration would be whether 472 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: or not the EU would follow the United States lead 473 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years in taking a harder 474 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: line stance against China. For the communist parties, human rights 475 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: abuses against the weaker Muslim minorities, and the Shinjeang province. Well, 476 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: they took the lead today after that frosty Alaska meeting 477 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: just last week. Yeah, that was a frosty meeting. I 478 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: mean it seemed awkward. Um, you know, on top of it, 479 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,479 Speaker 1: not only was it awkward because the Chinese, I think 480 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: the Chinese probably went in there thinking that you know, 481 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: we knew that they went in there that they wanted 482 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: to demand that the Biden administration removed UH several of 483 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: Trump's policies regarding trade restrictions, UH sanctions and so on. 484 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: And Lincoln basically said, fat chance. And not only did 485 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: he stay that, and he kind of seemed to have 486 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: read the Riot Act to his counterpart on a whole 487 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: host of issues, right, how they behave during the pandemic. Um. 488 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: There of course they're unfair trade practices, their stealing of 489 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: of I P and so on, but also their human 490 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: rights abuses UH and genocide against the weakers, the repression 491 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: of Tibet, their behavior in Hong Kong. I mean, he 492 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: really went through the list and um, one of the 493 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: key tenants of Biden's tactics in terms of approaching China 494 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: is to rally the allies in order to kind of 495 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: build the pressure together. And I think that that's so critical, 496 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: and we didn't really know how they were going to 497 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: turn out, but I think the coordinated action that happened 498 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: today in terms of sanctions really does speak volumes in 499 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: terms of doing this together with our international partners. Let 500 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: me follow up on this, because you've actually worked on sanctions, 501 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: you've worked in crafting them, and you know the rollout 502 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: is so incredibly intricate and detailed. How striking is it 503 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: to have such a coordinated effort? And a follow up 504 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: to that, is this just the first step in a 505 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: longer marathon? Well, so to answer backwards, yes, this is 506 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: absolutely I assume a first step, um and in two ways. 507 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: So on one hand, uh, usually when Treasury does sanctions, 508 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: they start they may have a numerous targets in mind, 509 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: but they're not going to unleash them all at once 510 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 1: because they want to just do them step by steps 511 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: and ratchet up the pressure further and further in order 512 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: to see, you know, how much more do we need 513 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: to squeeze in order to change behavior or exact what 514 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: what it is we're trying to exact, right, And of 515 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: course that needs to be coupled with a broader strategy, right, 516 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: a diplomatic strategy, humanitarian, military, whatever the whatever that strategy 517 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: were entails. Um. And so you're, uh, this is definitely 518 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: just the beginning. In fact, you saw they had imposed 519 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: sanctioned last week, the day before Blincoln's meeting on twenty 520 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: four Chinese government and Hong Kong officials for the repression 521 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: in Hong Kong specifically. So you have that last week, 522 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: you have this this week. And so not only even 523 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: to see more of these sanctions focused on human rights 524 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: and democracy, but the effort to do them in tandem 525 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: with other countries is also by going to be a 526 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: key feature. Um. You know now when today's action was 527 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: with the EU, uh, the United Kingdom and Canada. And 528 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: it's not I don't want to say it's easy to do, 529 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like a phone call. But it 530 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: does take work and certainly it takes a lot of 531 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: time to in coordinate it on the same day. UM. 532 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: I know, because I've done it before for a range 533 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: of our sanctions packages. But when you do it, it's 534 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: all the louder and and and and all the more effective. 535 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: But I do I do expect to see more of it. 536 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: This is Genie Z know, it's so good to talk 537 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: to you. I have been waiting to ask a sanctions 538 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: expert this, and I'm gonna do it in two parts. 539 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: Number one, has the United States become two sanctions happy? 540 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: This is something that we and my field think about 541 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: all the time. Um, are we imposing sanctions almost any 542 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: time we don't like an action of another country and 543 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: not using other tools at our disposal? And then the 544 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: second part of this is if we just look at 545 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: another you know, discussed sanctions on the nord stream too 546 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: as it you know, pertains to Russia and Germany ours 547 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: those kinds of secondary sanctions, of violation of international law. 548 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: So I'm sorry for the two parter, but I'm following 549 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: Kevin because he did one, I'm doing one. Um. Well, thanks, Genie. 550 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: It's so great to meet you, you know, over the radio, 551 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: over the radio waves, and you're asking a question. I 552 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: mean that could be answered in a dissertation, but I'll 553 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: try and be very brief. Sorry. So first is, for sure, 554 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: we've become sanctions happy, and that is not just the 555 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: trademark of the Trump administration. So it certainly grew under 556 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: the Trump administration significantly, but it was also towards the 557 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: end of the Obama administration. We you know, the White 558 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: House turned to us when I was at Treasury, they 559 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: turned to us for every issue around the world, and 560 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: us at Treasury and said, you know, hey, okay, what 561 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: options and tools you have at your disposal? Who could 562 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: we target? What could we do? Right? So, and it's 563 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: because sanctions are an easy tool to use. They are effective, um, 564 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: given the power of our dollar, um, so our currency 565 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: at our reserves of course, and the fact that people 566 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: hold the dollar in reserves. This is really what gives 567 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: us just such potency in this tool. Correct, So it is, 568 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: it is easy, and they can be very effective. And 569 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: so um we have gotten a little sanctions happy. But 570 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: I'm not personally, for example, I'm not against um a 571 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: lot of sanctions if they're used deliberately and strategically, right so, 572 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: when they are done, when they're just slapped for no 573 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: reason or not no reason, But when they're just slapped 574 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: and there isn't a broader strategy with a very clearly 575 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: articulated goal at hand, then that's where things get really risky. 576 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: That's where it just seems like the US has nothing 577 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: to do or doesn't know what to do, and so 578 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: we'll just sanction. And that's not a good look and 579 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: it's not a good place to be, because we don't 580 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: want collateral damage, right. We don't want people working outside 581 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: the dollar or or removing their reserves. We don't want 582 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: workarounds to be created, uh in terms of you know, 583 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: the the EU, for example, doing things only in you uh, 584 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: in the euro so UM. So that's that's the one 585 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: This administration has pledged to to look at sanctions more 586 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: broadly and make sure that they are more strategically used. 587 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: Um and uh. And I expect to see that, though 588 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: I will say the pace of sanctions has pretty much 589 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: remained the same in terms of the number of them 590 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: per week from the Trump administration to now and in 591 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: terms of your question on nord stream, so listen, most 592 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: Treasury people will tell you that they reject the notion 593 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: that our sanctions are extra territorial. I am not a 594 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: legal expert myself, so I don't want to pretend that 595 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: that I that I can go into the weeds of that. Um. 596 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: But the reason that that sentiment is there is because 597 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: the feeling is, you know, listen, if we see criminal behavior, 598 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: then no, we don't want you using the dollar. No 599 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: we don't want you access seeing reserves here. We don't 600 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: want you corresponding with New York. If you want to 601 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: do behave, If you want to engage with you know 602 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: whatever criminal whomever, criminal that might be, or supporting somebody 603 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: that you know by by doing business with them, you 604 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: are further rings their criminal activities or repressive behavior or 605 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Then no, we the United States, 606 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: we reserve the right to say that, you know what's sorry, 607 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: We're not gonna We're not gonna allow that. So that's 608 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: why it's not viewed from Treasury's angle as extra territorial. 609 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: How Gar, I gotta say, I was talking to Morgan 610 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: or take Us earlier today. She's find a somewhere and 611 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: she was saying that she wants to go on a 612 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: panel with you on this show. So we have to 613 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: arrange Morgan and herd are on together, be like a 614 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: geopolitical hour. And you've got this new show on YouTube 615 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: called Oh My World. Who do you have on the 616 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: show this week? You're so kind. Thank you so much, 617 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: Kevin Um for mentioning it. UM. I actually don't know 618 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: yet who I'm gonna happen on last week. Who was 619 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: on last week? It's okay, I don't know either. Last 620 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,439 Speaker 1: week was so amazing. So my show, by the way, 621 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: is I tape it on Thursdays and released on Fridays 622 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: where I don't know yet. But last week I was 623 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: so lucky. I had both Gretchen Carlson, who's if you 624 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: all know, American broadcaster uh co founder of list Our 625 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: Voices UM and she spoke in the wake of the 626 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: murder of Sarah Everard in London and the reaction of 627 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: the police at the vigil we spoke about I watched it. 628 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: Go watch it. I got I go watch on YouTube. 629 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: Oh my World, her Garsha Molly's program. I have to run, 630 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: but it was a great episode.