Speaker 1: You can go home again. It's one more thing I'm
Speaker 1: strong andy thing before we get to that. I don't
Speaker 1: know when you'll listen to this podcast. We were recording
Speaker 1: this on April the seventh, nineteen ninety six. But there's
Speaker 1: a rumor going around flying around the internet that Jimmy
Speaker 1: Carter has died and he has not. One US Senator
Speaker 1: Mike Lee put it out on his site, so that
Speaker 1: helped spread it. Obviously, if you saw it on a
Speaker 1: senator's site, you'd think it had to be true, but
Speaker 1: it's not. Yeah, yeah, anyway, So if you were listening
Speaker 1: last week when we were in Wisconsin for the Republican
Speaker 1: National Convention, we were in Milwaukee, which is about halfway
Speaker 1: up the state. I am from southwest Wisconsin, or at
Speaker 1: least that's one of my many many home states. Lived
Speaker 1: down there during my grade school years, and hadn't been
Speaker 1: to see the family home where I lived as a
Speaker 1: kid for half a century. Oh wow, not quite half
Speaker 1: a century, but dang there. And so I drove. I
Speaker 1: rented a car one day like Wednesday, when I was
Speaker 1: just so sick of the convention and I didn't need
Speaker 1: to see another speech, and I'm not a big city
Speaker 1: guy anyway, so I want to get out of town.
Speaker 1: I rented a car and I drove down to Little
Speaker 1: Cuba City, Wisconsin, where I lived from second through eighth grade,
Speaker 1: and then the year before that Hazel Green, which was
Speaker 1: only two miles away, and before that Glena, Illinois, which
Speaker 1: is only another seven miles away. Moved a number of
Speaker 1: times as a kid, but went saw my childhood home
Speaker 1: and my childhood grade school, which is not only still there,
Speaker 1: but looks exactly the same. I mean exactly the same
Speaker 1: as it did when I got on the school bus
Speaker 1: and left it in nineteen seventy eight or whatever year.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: Wow, which is strange that it hasn't changed a bit.
Speaker 1: The grade school looked exactly the same, The high school
Speaker 1: next door looked exactly the same. The house I lived
Speaker 1: in as a kid looked exactly the same. Was the
Speaker 1: same color, garage looked the same. Nothing to change. Really,
Speaker 1: town was the same size, roughly two thousand people.
Speaker 2: Well that's funny because the whole you can't go home
Speaker 2: refers to the fact that home isn't there anymore. The
Speaker 2: people have changed, the place has changed, the memories you have,
Speaker 2: this is just not there. Anymore. But your case, it
Speaker 2: was it.
Speaker 1: Was like exactly the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would almost be disconcerting in a way.
Speaker 1: It was a little bit cool. Yeah, But so my
Speaker 1: main takeaway was because it's a weird thing. Probably lots
Speaker 1: of people have done this. It's a weird thing, and
Speaker 1: it's like bittersweet in a weird sort of way. Because
Speaker 1: what's the bitter part that you wish? What do you
Speaker 1: wish you were a kid again? Or I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't actually ever wished I was a kid again.
Speaker 2: I don't, Thank god, I don't know. Care free times
Speaker 2: and yeah, exactly the joys of riding your bike and
Speaker 2: playing and not having to worry about adult stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, I found it just mostly sweet sweet, except
Speaker 1: for the fact that there are certain concrete things that
Speaker 1: were significantly docum easily documented better then than they are now.
Speaker 1: It's not just the rosy glow of history and you
Speaker 1: only remember the good things and not the bad things
Speaker 1: of that sort of stuff. I was looking at my
Speaker 1: grade school. The same playground structure is there is when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and I took pictures the same
Speaker 1: monkey bars, really tall, high dangerous monkey bars over really
Speaker 1: hard dirt were still there. So is the giant tall
Speaker 1: metal slide over hard dirt still there? I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: we call them climbing bars. Now monkey bars reinforce as
Speaker 1: unfortunate stereotypes about monkeys. They don't have the They didn't
Speaker 1: tear that down and put up these spongy soft low slide,
Speaker 1: no monkey bars. Like my park in Davis, California, they've
Speaker 1: got a little what do you call the merry ground?
Speaker 1: Is that what you call the things that you see
Speaker 1: on and you spend except it's got some sort of
Speaker 1: like governor on it. It's got something that causes friction.
Speaker 1: You can barely move it as an adult, and you
Speaker 1: can get it going a little bit and then it
Speaker 1: stops right away, so that doesn't spin too fast.
Speaker 2: Oh that is fun.
Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing? I mean, And we now know because
Speaker 1: Europe has done studies that the scary playerground equipment actually
Speaker 1: helps kids with their anxiety and learning to deal with fear.
Speaker 1: It's better for them in every way emotionally to climb
Speaker 1: up on a monkey bars, or go down a fast slide,
Speaker 1: or spin fast on the merry go round, then to.
Speaker 2: Not And I remember that landmark German study was the
Speaker 2: German insurance industry said that that the lack of that
Speaker 2: sort of thing suppresses kids' ability to develop a sense
Speaker 2: of risk assessment. They have no sense of what they
Speaker 2: can and can't do, what would be safe, what would
Speaker 2: be dangerous, and so they kind of careem through adulthood
Speaker 2: having not worked through this stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, So it it hurts my heart that my kids
Speaker 1: have never been up on really high rickety slide and
Speaker 1: had that feeling, or you know.
Speaker 3: A really hot day where it just burns you all
Speaker 3: the way down.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yes, hotske Bell's character you got to take
Speaker 2: in Mcuba City, Wisconsin, say climb up that slide, then
Speaker 2: slide down. If you fall off and land on your head,
Speaker 2: the hard heart DIBt, you'll have learned something.
Speaker 1: They'll go go, well, yeah, of course, there's all the
Speaker 1: gravestones around there from all my classmates that died by
Speaker 1: being on the Merry go Round going too fast or whatever.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you had to step over their bones on
Speaker 2: the way to the softball field.
Speaker 1: I don't know if my kids have ever been on
Speaker 1: a Merry go Round where you're spinning it super fast
Speaker 1: and you're going really really fast and you're hanging on
Speaker 1: and you're about to fly off. I don't think they've
Speaker 1: ever had that experience.
Speaker 2: We used to jump off of it, Oh yeah, of course,
Speaker 2: oh and go tumbling totally out of control across the
Speaker 2: dirt or grass or whatever's around. We all did.
Speaker 1: But the other part that bothered me even more was
Speaker 1: there's a steep hill there that's still there, right next
Speaker 1: to the playground and in the winter time because it's Wisconsin. Okay,
Speaker 1: now this part is not better. This part. I sent
Speaker 1: Joe a picture. There's like a on what you'd call
Speaker 1: it an entryway or whatever to the school where it's
Speaker 1: a recessed entryway about. And you won't believe this, Katie,
Speaker 1: because you're a native California where it doesn't get cold,
Speaker 1: but it's like twenty feet deep or whatever, and you
Speaker 1: could there's a name for that corridor something like that.
Speaker 1: The doors cove the doors to the school and then
Speaker 1: there's like a cement thing you walk into entryway or
Speaker 1: something like that. Anyway, on super cold days, as a
Speaker 1: kid in Wisconsin, they would let us have for recess,
Speaker 1: didn't matter what the weather was. I mean, my kids,
Speaker 1: if if it's misty outside, they cancel recess. Yes, somebody
Speaker 1: could get hurt and you will run on the slippery glass.
Speaker 1: It could be and I'm not exaggerating a bit. This
Speaker 1: is not a I walk two miles to school, up
Speaker 1: and down the hills both ways. Whatever. It would be
Speaker 1: thirty below zero outside with the life threatening cult. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was just too cold to go out on
Speaker 1: the playground. So we would huddle in the corridor, all
Speaker 1: up against each other like those Penguin movies for body
Speaker 1: warmp for the forty five minute recess and told me
Speaker 1: out there, babies, until they open the door and let
Speaker 1: us back in.
Speaker 2: We have h we have firmed up. Indeed, it is
Speaker 2: an alcove. You were You were hiding for your life
Speaker 2: in an outdoor alcove.
Speaker 1: Twenty says, time you'd go out, huddle limico against each other,
Speaker 1: help us.
Speaker 2: Hanson said he did the same thing in elementary school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in South Dakota, and you'd huddle against each other.
Speaker 1: And I just like count the minutes until recess was over,
Speaker 1: because it was as.
Speaker 2: An eight year old, you're saying to your friends, those
Speaker 2: who don't survive, I'll see you on the other sides, right, tell.
Speaker 1: My story, you would say, before you went into fifth
Speaker 1: grade math. Tell my mother, I love to.
Speaker 3: Gosh, yeah, you're right, because I remember recess. If it
Speaker 3: was raining hard enough, it was movie day or something.
Speaker 2: They would keep us in.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the theory was on that. That
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be, that doesn't need to hang around.
Speaker 1: I mean there's probably some benefits and toughening you up
Speaker 1: or whatever, but that was a little extreme. But the
Speaker 1: hill next to the playground really steep hill, and in
Speaker 1: the wintertime it would be snow and it would turn
Speaker 1: to ice and we would slide down that thing. And
Speaker 1: everybody would bring their sleds on the bus, So you'd
Speaker 1: get on the bus with your saucer or your sled
Speaker 1: or whatever, and we'd stack them in the corner. And
Speaker 1: at recess it was grab your sled, run outside and
Speaker 1: just fly down this hill and your saucer spinning around,
Speaker 1: or wreck your sled and go tumbling to the bottom. Whatever.
Speaker 1: And the fact that that can't happen at all, not
Speaker 1: even close anymore, is a bad thing objectively. That's not
Speaker 1: just the rosy looking at the past. That was a
Speaker 1: better it was more fun, it was better for you emotionally,
Speaker 1: and my kids just can't even believe that I got
Speaker 1: to do that at school.
Speaker 2: And it was so great, especially for the boys who
Speaker 2: could run off all their exssig so they could sit
Speaker 2: still unlearn. It's utterly necessary and it has been part
Speaker 2: of rules forever practically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my memory is it was almost entirely boys. Not
Speaker 1: all boys, but it was mostly boys. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: was so much freaking fun.
Speaker 3: I'd be interested to know what the policy is at
Speaker 3: your school now.
Speaker 1: I wonder, because they have the same playground. I wonder
Speaker 1: if they let them sled down that hill bring their
Speaker 1: own sledge. You know, you could never bring your own
Speaker 1: sled to school, even if it was a perfectly safe
Speaker 1: hill with like spotters and foam at the bottom. Well
Speaker 1: the sled you brought a sled, somebody got hurt and
Speaker 1: we didn't have a chance to check and see if
Speaker 1: it was defective.
Speaker 2: And there's just not a chart or not all kids
Speaker 2: have sleds. So there's the equity issue.
Speaker 1: That's why my son can't bring a football to school
Speaker 1: to play catch with because there aren't enough for everybody
Speaker 1: to play catch. He can't bring one because some kids
Speaker 1: wouldn't have one, and that wouldn't that's the most idiotic
Speaker 1: catching thing I've ever heard. It makes me militant. It
Speaker 1: makes me want to hurt people with my fists. I know.
Speaker 1: So that is the That is the taste that was
Speaker 1: left in my mouth. Was not just the like I said,
Speaker 1: rosy goal of the past where you emphasize the good.
Speaker 1: It was objectively better then modern society and the points
Speaker 1: I just laid out, I mean not even close. And
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any way to get back to it.
Speaker 1: I just think it's possible.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 1: It believes me. It hurts my heart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's bad.
Speaker 1: It's bad for the country in every kind of way,
Speaker 1: not just fun for kids. But it's just that, and
Speaker 1: all the tentacles of that attitude are so bad for
Speaker 1: freaking everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree we're a nation of eel calves,
Speaker 2: an Armstrong and getty saying that probably goes back twenty
Speaker 2: years and we have not been proven anywhere close to wrong. No.
Speaker 1: I got in conversation with a number of people from
Speaker 1: different places in Wisconsin about how my kids love it
Speaker 1: when we go out of state because then they can
Speaker 1: go to a swimming pool where you're allowed to do
Speaker 1: a cannonball into the water because they don't let them
Speaker 1: do that in my town. There's rules against the cannonball.
Speaker 2: Again. You see all the dead bodies floating there in
Speaker 2: municipal pools all over the country from kids who died
Speaker 2: of doing a cannon ball.
Speaker 3: There was this great swim hole in my hometown where
Speaker 3: I grew up, and we used to have this platform
Speaker 3: you could swim out to and it had this diving
Speaker 3: board on it that had it was spring loaded. It
Speaker 3: was so fun and I'll never forget the summer they
Speaker 3: took it out because they said, no, no, it's not
Speaker 3: You had to take a swimming test and everything to
Speaker 3: get out there. So I mean they you know, yet
Speaker 3: to make sure you could swim. But they they got
Speaker 3: rid of that thing because it was just too dangerous.
Speaker 1: Right, Nobody died, and I don't think hardly anybody likes this.
Speaker 1: That's the problem that I've always had with it as
Speaker 1: a free society democracy. I gotta believe eighty percent. There
Speaker 1: are people, I know people.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I gotta disagree, but go on,
Speaker 2: what do you what do you.
Speaker 1: Think the percentages are that that that are okay with?
Speaker 1: I W Well, I could use the ridiculous example of
Speaker 1: doing cannonballs in the pool.
Speaker 2: I gotta bright to start there. Well, it depends entire land,
Speaker 2: where you are, where you live, I'll bet, especially among women,
Speaker 2: it is six it's two thirds. I think that's a
Speaker 2: good idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I would guess. I know. I this
Speaker 1: woman who I really really like. I mean, she's just fantastic.
Speaker 1: But she told me about when the skateboard skateboard park
Speaker 1: opened up years ago. She and the other moms would
Speaker 1: go there and sit there and make sure all the
Speaker 1: kids had their helmets on before they would let them
Speaker 1: use it. And then you know, she wasn't able to
Speaker 1: keep doing that when her kids got older. I was like, really,
Speaker 1: you would go there and enforce these rules on other
Speaker 1: people's kids whether or not they wanted to wear a
Speaker 1: helmet skateboarding?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, safety last figure it out for yourself. Kids.
Speaker 2: You'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But so you think there are a number of
Speaker 1: people that want the diving board gone, Oh yeah, but
Speaker 1: it can't be the majority.
Speaker 2: There's no way it's the majority. Is it depends where
Speaker 2: we are?
Speaker 1: Wow, that's troubling.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: During COVID is when I learned how many people want
Speaker 3: to be led, and I was shocked by that. They
Speaker 3: really looked at the government and they want you.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a good, good point there, Michael, Right,
Speaker 2: look at COVID, Look at the experience. There the number
Speaker 2: who are utterly willing to shut off their own agency
Speaker 2: and just do whatever their overlord's told them.
Speaker 1: I tell this story about the time I was painting
Speaker 1: the whitewash fence and I started trading apples for people
Speaker 1: and I got other people to paint them. Did that
Speaker 1: happen to me or tell me more?
Speaker 2: It's a hazy memory, charming. Well, I guess that's it.