1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Native lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media. 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 2: Nobody knows. 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Let's turn our attention to the Supreme Court case Claire Thomas. 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 3: Let's start with. 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Him, you know, every now and then, not every now 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: and then Anyway, today Claire Thomas asked this question about 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: dres Scott, and that's not the question we have. But 9 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: I do want to roll the first Claire's Thomas question 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: we have. I just want to acknowledge Donald Trump, who 11 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: has been in the room for our arguments we're saying today. 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: But it's going to end tomorrow, obviously, but this is 13 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: still fresh, so we don't have it all together. I 14 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: do want to roll this claireence Thomas question. 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 4: Generally, you're getting a lot of questions about immigration, and 16 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 4: they harke it back, of course, to the citizenship, which 17 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 4: is defined in or set out in the fourteenth Amendment. 18 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 4: How much of the debates around the fourteenth Amendment had 19 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 4: anything to do with immigration. 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 5: I think that the principal focus of those debates has 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 5: to do really not with immigrants, but with the Indian tribes. 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 5: I mean, obviously the main goal that one pervading purpose 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 5: of this Court said in the Slaughterhouse cases was to 24 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 5: establish the citizenship of the freed slaves and their children. 25 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 5: But they were very concerned about the problem of something 26 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 5: that they all accepted as a given, which is that 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 5: the children of tribal Indians are not within the rule 28 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 5: of birthright citizenship. So I think that's what they focus 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 5: and we draw an analogy to that to the issue 30 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 5: of temporary sojourners. But there are mentions of temporary sojourneying 31 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 5: multiple places in the congressional debates, and all of those 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 5: quotes go in our direction. 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: So that's the first one. I don't know if y'all 34 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: want to get into another part of the orals here, 35 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: but what is I think really fascinating. The lead attorney 36 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: on our side of the issue is a child of 37 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: immigrants arguing birthright citizenship. And you see the blatant hypocrisy 38 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: not only of the Republican Party, the Trump administration, and 39 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: probably some of these justices when this ruling will eventually 40 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: come out, are on this particular issue, some of them 41 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: being children of immigrants themselves. 42 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 3: But I don't know, I wanted to if. 43 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 6: I could just back up a second to mention because 44 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 6: I know we've all been wiscons in this case, as 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 6: we've heard or arguments today before the you know, the 46 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 6: High Court. But what's that question here is that the 47 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 6: President has signed an executive order several months back that 48 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 6: basically says that redefines the fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, 49 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 6: which established, just for all of our knowledge, that an 50 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 6: individual born here in the United States is considered a 51 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 6: citizen of the United States of America, regardless of where 52 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 6: their parents originated. And there are a few exceptions to 53 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 6: that rule, usually having to deal with diplomats, foreign diplomats 54 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 6: and high ministers to respective country, and in the case 55 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 6: of foreign occupation that the law doesn't apply to those 56 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 6: individuals those individuals, but they're basically four exceptions to the law. 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 6: And it really even though you heard the mention of 58 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 6: dred Scott the Fourteenth Amendments, how it came into formation 59 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 6: in the first place in eighteen sixty eight, it was 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 6: part of what we now know as the sort of 61 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 6: reconstruction clauses of the Constitution, and those were the thirteenth, fourteenth, 62 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 6: and fifteenth Amendment, giving black folks in this country access 63 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 6: to the constitutional guarantees that we were denied at the 64 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 6: forming of this country, but it dates back to you know, 65 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 6: the early sixteen hundreds as part of Calvin's case in 66 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 6: Great Britain that established that anyone born under the jurisdiction 67 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 6: of the king had to be basically obedient and is 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 6: a subject of the king, regardless again of what their 69 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 6: parents did or where they came from. So, although it's 70 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 6: been the law of the land for one hundred and 71 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 6: fifty years coming into formation since the fourteenth Amendment, it 72 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 6: has been the practice of the United States, mostly for 73 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 6: white men, but the practice of the United States since 74 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 6: before the founding of the United States of America. So 75 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 6: this man has the audacity to challenge this constitutional amendment 76 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 6: that basically black people are responsible for it having come 77 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 6: into formation in the first place. And I just think 78 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 6: we are to as a community, really understand the import 79 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 6: of this debate today, this week, and in the weeks 80 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 6: ahead as the Supreme Court sort of deals with this. 81 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 6: I think a lot of people are assuming that it's 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 6: going to go one way. But I thought the same 83 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 6: thing about others settled pieces of law, that the court, 84 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 6: this court, this conservative court, would go one way, and 85 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 6: it ended up going a different one. So let's just 86 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 6: pay attention to what's happening here. The fourteenth Miendment exists 87 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 6: because of us, but as affirmed for in future cases, 88 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 6: it applies to everybody and anybody born here in the 89 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 6: United States on our soil. 90 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: And that's just the party. 91 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: I do think I appreciate you backing into context here, 92 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: Andrew's important. Donald Trump, moments after leaving the oral arguments, 93 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: went to truth Social number. By the way, this is 94 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: the only time in history documented that sitting president attended 95 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: oral arguments, so that's also a major We can argue 96 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: that he was there to try to intimidate the justices 97 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: in some way, but he posted on true Social shortly 98 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: after leaving, we are the only country in the world 99 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: stupid enough to allow birthright citizenship. He's wrong. Thirty other 100 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: countries at least also have birthright citizenship. The other piece 101 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: that I think is really important here, and I actually 102 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: want to at least commend John Roberts for this one 103 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: statement he made the Solicitor General General arguing that even 104 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: though the Framers didn't have in mind, which was John 105 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: Roberts question, that this is the type of situation that 106 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: would come up people coming here, you know, falling in 107 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: love with someone who was already a citizen here and 108 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: having a child, how do you determine whose parent is 109 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: that you know is responsible for the baby and where 110 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: their citizenship lay. And the Solicitor General Sours says, we're 111 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: in a new world now, and John Roberts, Chief Justice 112 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: John Roberts says, back, it's a new world, but it's 113 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: the same constitution. And so I think there are these 114 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: interesting pockets where you see their humanity. But to Andrew's point, 115 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: we are literally one Supreme Court decision away from the 116 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: dismantling and the gutting and the wrongful interpretation of the 117 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendment, of any amendment in any single case, in 118 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: any single case, they could decide not to rely on President. 119 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 3: They could they could decide to rely on. 120 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: Court president case President that is not in our favor, 121 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: right like it ain't always been. 122 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: The Supreme Court decision they're talking about dread Scott. 123 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: Dread Scott is not what established birthright citizenship. It was 124 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: the case that broke dread Scott's hard enough to cause 125 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: his death because they did not see him as a citizen, 126 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: as a human, because. 127 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: He was an en slave person right property, that's right. Chatto, 128 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 3: I can ask one question though. 129 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 7: One of the things, because I think both of you 130 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 7: and Andrew, you highlighted the importance Angela and Andrew gave 131 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 7: us the history. But one of the questions we haven't 132 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 7: answered for listeners, and I want to see what you 133 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 7: three think and and kind of just trim it down 134 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 7: is why, you know, what, why are they going through this? 135 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 7: Why are they going through this exercise? Practically like why? 136 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to I want bread to be 137 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: able to wait. 138 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a lawyer, but I have been black 139 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: my whole life, a Negro. 140 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 3: As those. 141 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: I'm from Saint Louis, which means every MLK day the 142 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: show me state period, y'all know, I put on for 143 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: Saint Louis, And every mlkday we marched from Pala Symphony 144 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: Hall to the old Courthouse in downtown Saint Louis where 145 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: Dread and Harriet Scott stood before the Missouri State Supreme Court. 146 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: They were also members of the church that my father 147 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: later passored, the second oldest church founded by freeing enslaved 148 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 2: black people in the state of Missouri. And thinking about 149 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: that history, what is clear to me is that what 150 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: they told Dread and Harriet about what they thought about 151 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: their dignity and humanity remains true. So they didn't recognize 152 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: their humanity and their dignity, then they don't. These folks 153 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: don't have any intent on recognizing our humanity or dignity now. 154 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: And just because they're using us as the cudgel to 155 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: try to make their argument doesn't mean that we're safe. 156 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: And I think it's really really important that those of 157 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: us who can trace our families back four and five 158 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: generations on this land, don't get comfortable and think that 159 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: this thing can apply to us, because it absolutely can. 160 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: I just think that they want the whole thing to themselves. 161 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: That's just what I think it comes down to. 162 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: I think brit is right. I do want to just 163 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: if I can drop in another clip. We have a 164 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: dissenter in chief in the Supreme Court. Her name is 165 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Katanji Brown Jackson, Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, and today she 166 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: demonstrates I think a great in her questioning Bikari an 167 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: answer suggested answer to your why, let's roll that. 168 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 8: Did I understand you to say that domicile is going 169 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 8: to be eventually or is controlled by Congress? Who is domiciled? 170 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 8: I'm struggling to figure out who is domiciled. 171 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 5: In your argument, the domiciliaries are people who are lawfully 172 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 5: present and have an intent to remain permanently. So that's 173 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 5: the kind of black letter understanding of domicile. Now, Congress 174 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 5: can't dictate the certain classes of people legal entrance and 175 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 5: so forth, cannot awfully lack of legal capacity to form 176 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 5: a legally binding Docit is that. 177 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 8: So then doesn't it make the domicile for the purpose 178 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 8: of the Fourteenth Amendment turned then ultimately on Congress's will 179 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 8: in a way that the framers did not intend. I mean, 180 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 8: my understanding was the Framers put this citizenship clause into 181 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 8: the Constitution to prevent future Congresses from being able to 182 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 8: affect citizenship in this way. 183 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 5: For sure, Very briefly, No, I don't think so, because 184 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 5: it is up to the alien whether or not they 185 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 5: want to be domiciled here. Now, there may be. 186 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 8: Said Congress can make determinations as to who counts as 187 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 8: being domiciled here. So that's true, Then it ultimately would 188 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 8: impact in your theory whether or not this person can 189 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 8: claim that they have citizenship for Fourteenth Amendment purposes based 190 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 8: on Congress's determination. I just thought that's what the Fourteenth 191 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 8: Amendment was trying to get away from. 192 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 5: Yes, very briefly, I just point you to the discussion 193 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 5: in Professor Worman's im GUS brief where he talks about 194 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 5: this is not a new problem, going back even to 195 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 5: the British common law. There's a situation of people who 196 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 5: lack a safe conduct and are passing through the King's 197 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 5: domains without permission. And he says, the best reading of 198 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 5: the common laws, they are not in the protection of 199 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 5: the King, and they're not covered by their royal birthright. 200 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 6: Citizenship passing through. He's been real colorful with the language there. 201 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 6: But I will tell you, first of all, I'll say 202 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 6: Justice Jackson and I would add to that Justice Soto 203 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 6: Mayor both have a way of making the High Court 204 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 6: accessible in their questions and the way in which they 205 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 6: summarize their questions. As a non lawyer, I feel like 206 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 6: I can access what it is that they're trying to 207 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 6: say and what the crux of the argument is about. 208 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 6: To Bakari's question, because I think it really it's a 209 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 6: great one and it's one that we all ought to consider, 210 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 6: Like why now, why after terms before the founding of 211 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 6: this nation, does it decide under Trump and his stooges 212 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 6: to redefine who a US citizen is. And although a 213 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 6: lot of us may think that this thing is powered 214 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 6: by the immigration of Latin Americans, I think into the US, 215 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 6: that's who they like to use as today's sort of boogeyman. 216 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 6: I think it has everything to do with what surfaces 217 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 6: in Donald Trump's voice. Every time he has the opportunity 218 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 6: to talk about the kinds of people he believes ought 219 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 6: to be in the United States, he talks about people 220 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 6: from shithole countries, places that we don't want. 221 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 7: Right. 222 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 6: He talks about South America at the whole continent of 223 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 6: Africa to forgive him. He doesn't know the demographic diversity 224 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 6: that exists on the continent, but whatever be that as 225 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 6: it may. And then when he talks about Europe, he 226 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 6: talks about Europe losing its authenticity, its identity because of 227 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 6: the immigration of brown peace. So lets none of us 228 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 6: get it confused that what this theme is about isn't 229 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 6: just about Latin American immigration in this country. They wish 230 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 6: to reverse the wheels of immigrant of the census of 231 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 6: this country going forward. They know that white folks have 232 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 6: a lower birth rate than any other group. They know 233 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 6: that the browning of America is real, that is here, 234 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 6: and that it will increase, and so to preserve their power, 235 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 6: they believe they need a more Eurocentric United States of America. 236 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 6: This is this is based in racism, as was of 237 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 6: the origination here, as was the Fourteenth Amendment which saved 238 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 6: us from it, as was the Southern States then implementing 239 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 6: their own discriminatory laws after the Fourteenth Amendment to keep 240 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 6: us from accessing power. So they're not talking about black people, 241 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 6: they're not name checking us right now as the problem. 242 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 6: They're using us and escapegoading us as part of the 243 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 6: solution through the fourteenth minis and on this argument. But 244 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 6: don't get it twisted. They see us as big a 245 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 6: threat as they see Latin American immigration. They don't want 246 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 6: us counted in the census, and they don't want us 247 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 6: being the majority. Ultimately, I think this is about what 248 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 6: you hear Donald Trump say, which is he wants a 249 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 6: whiter America and he wants an America that brings people 250 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 6: in from European countries who are also just European and 251 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 6: Dutch people from South Africa. Don't forget. 252 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 7: They going back. They don't even like it here. They 253 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 7: all go back. 254 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: They say this is a way, They say, we ain't 255 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: want to be in the ghetto. 256 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 7: I think that, you know, just summarily, it's two things, 257 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 7: and I think Andrew hit the nail on the head. 258 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 7: I mean, it's it's about power, and it's about fear. 259 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 7: It's the fear of losing what they believe to be theirs, 260 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 7: the browning of America, this inability to understand Angela rise 261 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 7: phrase that this joint for free right, and not acknowledging 262 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 7: that the equity of of of what diversity has put 263 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 7: into this country, not recognizing those contributions. And I think lastly, 264 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 7: it's about just not valuing diversity. You know, that power, 265 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 7: that that power talking point is so real because it 266 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 7: comes down to elections. They see themselves having a better 267 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 7: opportunity winning an election, maintaining power with the fewer black 268 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 7: and brown folk in this country, period, point blank, fullstop. 269 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 7: And I honestly don't think that that Donald Trump. I 270 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 7: find him to be a useful idiot for those of it, 271 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 7: those individuals who are around him, because I think that 272 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 7: we don't we talk about it a lot, but the 273 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 7: Stephen Millers and the Bannons of the world are the 274 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 7: ones who are orchestrating this. And then the sad part 275 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 7: is the the Cassidys and the Cottons of the world, 276 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 7: the Hallies of the world, the Vanceas of the world 277 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 7: don't have the testicular fortitude to be able to rise 278 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 7: up to this case, this occasion and actually recognize what 279 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 7: America is and or her value. So I think power 280 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 7: and I think fear are whatsdrivingness. 281 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: Power, though right, fear is how you maintain power. I 282 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: say this all the time, and I teach on this 283 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: every single conflict in the West, in America, in particular, 284 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: in white dominant culture, comes down to the desire to 285 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: hoard power. White dominant culture teaches us that power is 286 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: a pie and there are only so many slices to 287 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 2: go around. The idea that we are all born with 288 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: innate power and it is therefore abundant, and we can 289 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: share it and all be better when we share it 290 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: is foreign to a white the ideology of whiteness, right, 291 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 2: it is it is natural to our communities, It is 292 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: foreign to them. So they're going to maintain power by 293 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 2: any means necessary and at all costs, which means stoking fear, 294 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: which means stoking violence very intentionally, right, because that's always 295 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 2: a tool of power. Because they mean to, they intend 296 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: to ensure that they don't share power with anybody but themselves. 297 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: And if there are wealthy people of color who think 298 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: they're gonna get in on no pie, they are sadly mistaken. 299 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: Native Lampid is a production of iHeart Radio and partnership 300 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: with reisent Choice Media. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 301 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 302 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.