1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: The Team forty seven podcast is sponsored by Good Ranchers 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Making the American Farm Strong Again. Team forty seven with 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: Clay and Buck starts. 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: Now we are joined by our friend Selena Zito. Book 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: comes out today. I've got a copy because you know, 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: I know some people. Butler, The Untold Story of the 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: near assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Heartland. Selena, 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: you do great reporting. You're an excellent writer. You were 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 2: right there that day in Butler as those shots rang out. 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: Tell us what was it? 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 3: Like? 12 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 4: What happened? 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know when you're in report and you aren't, 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 3: your day starts out a certain way, like you're going 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: to do this, this and this, and nine times out 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 3: of ten, that's not what happens. And so at that day, 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 3: I was supposed to interview President Trump for five minutes 18 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 3: before the rally. That's just about two hours after I'm 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 3: in ad Butler and it's going to be five minutes 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: after the rally. And then they say, well, you want 21 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: to like fly to Bedminster with the President and do 22 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 3: the interview on the plane. I'm like, well, I never 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: get an invite like that. I'm in and then five 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: minutes before he's supposed to go on stage. They come 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 3: rushing back and say it's go time, and I just 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 3: assumed that they changed their mind and I was going 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,479 Speaker 3: to do it before the rally, so I raced through 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: it along with my daughter who's a photo journalist. She 29 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 3: did the cover of the book and race through the crowd. 30 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 3: We get to the behind the stage and I asked 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: the young man, like, where where are we doing this interview? 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 3: And the President's around the bend. He comes back and 33 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: he says, I'm not doing the interview right now. You're 34 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 3: still going to Bedminster. He just wanted to say hi 35 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,639 Speaker 3: to you. And so that moment of him just wanting 36 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: to say hi, he has about my grandchildren. I've interviewed 37 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 3: President Trump dozens of times, and at that moment, I'm 38 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 3: then now stuck because I can't get back to the 39 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 3: press riser and I'm supposed to leave with him to 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: go to Bedminster along with my daughter. So they put 41 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 3: me in the buffer area. The buffer is sort of 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 3: this well that goes around the stage, and they said 43 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 3: just follow them out and then get over on the 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: other side. Towards the end, you can just jump in 45 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: the motorcake That's why I ended up being just four 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 3: feet away from the president when he was shot, was right. 47 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: If you can see me and a lot of the 48 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: photos just to his that would have been his left. 49 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: Selena, this is I've got the book in front of 50 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: me right now, and I read the opening chapter already. 51 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: It's fabulously well done, and I'm actually looking forward to 52 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: reading it. And we get a lot of books, and 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm not able to read all of them. But we're 54 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: coming up on the one year anniversary. Do you find 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: it as hard as I do, as I think Buck does, 56 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: and as I imagine the vast majority of people out 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: there listening do that we still know almost nothing about 58 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: this guy who got onto the roof with that gun, 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: not much about his background, not much about his motivation 60 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: on that day, not even that much about how he 61 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: came to come as close as he did to killing 62 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: the President of the United States, which, by the grace 63 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: of God, he did not achieve. But we're in a 64 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: completely different universe. If that bullet is one quarter inch 65 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: closer to the president, what do you think now, having 66 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: been there, having witnessed it, does it still seem improbable 67 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: that all of this happened? 68 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 3: It does seem improbable that all of this happened. And 69 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: you'll find out in the book. The President calls me 70 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: the first thing the next morning, and he, you know, 71 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: President Trump is a little hilarious if you don't haven't 72 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: picked up on that. The first thing he says is, Hey, 73 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: this is President Trump, Like I don't know that, right, 74 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: And then and then he goes, I'm so I want 75 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: to make sure you are okay, your daughter's okay, and 76 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: I'm so sorry that we didn't get to do that interview. 77 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: And that's that's this moment with him, right that you 78 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: really understand, like like this is this is not the 79 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 3: person you always think he is. And we have we 80 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: go on that day and it's detailed in the book. 81 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 3: We go on that day. He calls me seven times 82 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: and and he really talks about the improbability that he 83 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 3: didn't die, and he questions about purpose and about God, 84 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 3: not in a fanatical, you know, religious way, but in 85 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: a way that is very thoughtful and you know, you know, 86 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 3: why didn't I die? 87 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 4: Do I know? 88 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: How do I have this new purpose? And I think 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 3: he answers that question every day, Whether you agree or 90 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 3: not with everything that he does. He answers a question 91 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 3: every day since he was sworn in in January. They 92 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 3: does have purpose. This is not the presidency of a 93 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: man going into his second term. This is a president'sy. 94 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: This is not a lame duck presidency. He is approaching 95 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 3: this as someone who who was spared by God, and 96 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: he says that many times to me, but also as 97 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 3: as someone that has a purpose and he is meant 98 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 3: to fulfill it and he's going to go head down 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: straight into it because you never know what's going to 100 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: happen to you. 101 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: I think that what you just said is so important, 102 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: and I think people are picking up on it now. 103 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: I think even Democrats are The biggest difference between Trump 104 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: one point zero and Trump two point zero is the 105 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: quality of the people he surrounded himself with. Yes, but 106 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: also Trump is making decisions that he thinks are generationally 107 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: in the interest of the country, and he's not concerned 108 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: at all with anyone who might disagree with him. And 109 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: I think that's partly because he feels spared based on 110 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: what happened that Dayan. 111 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: Butler, Yes, though, so. I had an interview coming out 112 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: with him this week on Friday in the Washington Post, 113 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: and he talks about that in a very meaningful and 114 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 3: profound way. And you know, part of who he surrounds 115 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 3: himself also has to do with Butler. Like Butler changed everything. 116 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: It didn't just change the American electorate. It didn't just 117 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 3: change our coalitions and galvanize people. And people will read 118 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: that detail as I continue to cover the election in 119 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: a way that none of you have sayus all because 120 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 3: the reporters were writing something completely different than what I 121 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 3: was reporting in that moment. But everything changed in that moment. 122 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 3: And I think this nugets important because it goes to 123 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: understanding Trump in a way that people don't understand, and 124 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 3: it goes to understanding why he's going to do what 125 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 3: he's going to do because God saved him. And that 126 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 3: is the moment that he says, by right fight. And 127 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 3: I asked him about it the next day, and I 128 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 3: asked him again about it two weeks ago, he said, 129 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 3: and I just wanted to revisit it with him, and 130 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: he had the same exact answer, because I didn't know 131 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 3: if you would remember that or not. 132 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 4: Right, that was a. 133 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: Pretty crazy day. The next day he said, I was 134 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: not Donald Trump in that moment. I had an obligation 135 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 3: to be someone who shows resolves and be a symbol 136 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: of the country, be a symbol of grit and exceptionalism, 137 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: and we will go undefeated. And that is what America 138 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: has always meant to me. And I had an obligation 139 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 3: as a former president and possibly the next president to 140 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 3: show that because in a lot of ways, because I 141 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 3: didn't want people to panic there and they didn't, by 142 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 3: the way, but also I didn't want people watching panicking 143 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 3: out in the streets. I had an obligation to be presidential, 144 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: not to be Donald Trump, to represent the office in 145 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: the country with results. 146 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: Selena, Honestly, wasn't that just the most amazing thing you've 147 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: ever seen a president do? Amazing even for President Trump, 148 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: who's done a lot of incredible stuff. Clay and I 149 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: still sit there and think, I can't. It's hard to 150 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: believe even when you watch the video, even when we 151 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: saw it the first time as it was happening, that 152 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: a president took a bullet through the year, was bleeding 153 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: on stage and turned to his people and raised a 154 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: fist and told them to fight. 155 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it was is that process and went through 156 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 3: his head that understanding that it was more he was 157 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: a man there, he was a president. He was America 158 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 3: in that moment, right, you know that symbol of our 159 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: country when you think about the American eagle, right, perseverance 160 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: and strength and grit. He knew that people needed to 161 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 3: know that he was fighting, that the country was fighting, 162 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: and that something as dark, as demonic as what Thomas 163 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 3: Matthew Crooks attempted to do and would have caused immense 164 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 3: chaos and unrest in this country was not succeeded. And 165 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: he wanted to show that America is resilient. I don't know, 166 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 3: and I remember him telling me that, and my reaction was, well, wow, 167 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 3: that's Steve, because it was it was, it was. It 168 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 3: was to think on your feet like that after you've 169 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 3: been shot. I mean, most people would be in the 170 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: fetal position, right. And I'm watching him he remember, I'm 171 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: only four feet away, and I'm watching him like struggle 172 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 3: with his secret service because he wants the shoes on, 173 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 3: and damn it, he's going to get his shoes on. 174 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 3: He is not walking off of that stage in his 175 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 3: stocking feet across gravel. He was able to be the 176 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: United States. 177 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: Were you able to go to slot. I'm just kind 178 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: of curious when something like that happens, were you able 179 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: to to immediately contextualize the historic moment of what had occurred, 180 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: And the fact that I think for hundreds of years 181 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: people are going to be watching that video and it's 182 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: going to become even more iconic after the passions of 183 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: the moment start to fade because Democrats have whatever they 184 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: think about Trump. But I think fifty one hundred years 185 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: from now, long after anyone who is listening to us 186 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: today is not here, that moment is going to become 187 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: so indelible and so iconic in American life. Did you 188 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: understand that or feel that immediately? And second part, did 189 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 1: you like, were you able to sleep that night? I'm 190 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: just kind of curious when you have that experience how 191 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: long it takes you to come down off the adrenaline rush, 192 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: just based on where you were to say nothing of him, I've. 193 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: Still not come down from it. And you know, I 194 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: knew exactly. You know, as a journalists, you know, part 195 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 3: of your job, even if it's a tiny thread, you're 196 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 3: always covering history every day. But I knew in that moment. 197 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: You know, and and he talks about purpose, but I 198 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 3: also talk about purpose. There is a reason I was there, right, 199 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 3: and there was a reason I was supposed to chronicle this, 200 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 3: and and I I knew that that was what my 201 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 3: purpose was, and to be able to tell this story. 202 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 3: And because I have a gift of total recall, right, 203 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 3: I can remember every smell, every like I think in color, right, 204 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: like I can smell and taste and feel everything in 205 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 3: that moment. And and when they when people say when 206 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: they've been in a in a in a tragic situation, 207 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: the time slows down, then that was very true for me. 208 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 3: And and I watched the entire thing in in in 209 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 3: these these very fine layers. And because I have the 210 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 3: you have to recall. And plus I have my recorder 211 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 3: on and I'm talking, I record everything that happens. I 212 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 3: can hear everything the president says. But also I'm talking 213 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 3: to my recorder, so I don't forget anything. And I 214 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: and I probably started the book. And I didn't even 215 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: think about a book. I just thought, well, I need 216 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 3: to write this story. 217 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 4: And I did. 218 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 3: But you know, people came to me and it's like, 219 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: you need do you have an obligation to write this book? 220 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 3: And so I immediately started writing it. While as I'm 221 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: writing it. I'm still continuing to cover an extraordinarily historic election. 222 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: That I believe is that I'm watching it. That other 223 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 3: people aren't covering what's happening. They're covering what they wish 224 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 3: was happening. They're covering what they hope happens. But I'm 225 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 3: on the ground there in Pennsylvania, in the middle of 226 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 3: somewhere in Pennsylvania, and I'm covering this and seeing this 227 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 3: entire country change, not just in the rural areas but 228 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 3: in the suburbs. I'm watching these young mothers who all 229 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 3: was who have never put a Trump hat on in 230 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 3: the next weekend, have them on at their kids' soccer 231 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: games because and there's interviews in the book, they say, Hey, 232 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: he can take a bullet for me. I can wear 233 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 3: a damn hat and not worry about what people say 234 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: to me. Everything changed in that moment. 235 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: Butler the untold story of the near assassination of Donald 236 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 2: Trump and the fight for America's heartland. Selena Zido's book 237 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: out today. Selena's great. We really love her work. Get 238 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: yourself a copy. Selena, Thank you so much. 239 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 3: Oh thanks you guys, have a great day. 240 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to Team forty seven with Clay and Buck. 241 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: We are joined by the Secretary of Energy the US 242 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 2: Department of Energy, Chris Wright. Mister Secretary, appreciate you being 243 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: with us. We know we were just you were just 244 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: in a marathon cabin meeting as a member of the cabinet, 245 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: a lot covered there. Wanted to just jump into what 246 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: is in the big beautiful bill that affects directly US 247 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 2: national energy policy, Like what do we need to know 248 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: about what's coming? 249 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 4: Actually quite a debt, but let me start out with 250 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 4: maybe the biggest thing is it's the ending of about 251 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 4: a half a trillion dollars of subsidies that would be 252 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 4: paid out in the next ten years, so you know, 253 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 4: roughly fifty billion a year. We've been paying these for 254 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 4: many years, and the biggest component to them is to 255 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 4: pay people to put wind and solar on our electricity grid, 256 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 4: and subsidies to help rich people by evs. And so 257 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 4: the problem of these subsidies is they not only cost 258 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 4: the taxpayers that half a trillion dollars, but at the 259 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: end they make our electricity grids more expensive and less stable, 260 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 4: so we have to pay twice. So I think reducing 261 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 4: the pressure the cost of these subsidies and the pressure 262 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 4: on the cost and stability of our grid is going 263 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 4: to be a big win for Americans. 264 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: When you look at at the price of gas, I 265 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: think that's a big story. Isn't being talked about enough. 266 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: It's at four year lows, summer lows, going all the 267 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: way back basically to when we were coming out of COVID. 268 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: What does affordable energy, particularly when it comes to gas 269 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: mean for the overall economic environment as you see it. 270 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 4: Oh, it's huge, And you made to four year lows, 271 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 4: which is true if we correct for inflation and ignore 272 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 4: the crazy year that was COVID, it's actually a twenty 273 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 4: year low in the price of gasoline and in affordability terms. 274 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: So it's just tremendous. That's a significant expense that all Americans, 275 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 4: all of us pay every week to get to our jobs, 276 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: to go on vacations, to visit our grandmothers, and travel 277 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 4: with our kids. If you make gasoline prices expensive, you 278 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 4: just shrink the life opportunities people have. People visit their 279 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 4: family and friends, last, they have less adventures, They've got 280 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 4: less money in their pocket for other expenditures. So I'm 281 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 4: very proud about the administration's record we have gasoline twenty 282 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 4: five to thirty cents a gallon cheaper today than it 283 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 4: was twelve months ago. And that's going through a period 284 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 4: of major conflict in the Middle East, but major productive 285 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: conflict in the Middle East, hopefully ending the forty six 286 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: years of Iran at the troublemaker in the Middle East, 287 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 4: and really the threat to global peace, probably the largest 288 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 4: global threat to peace over the last forty five years. 289 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: We're speaking to the Secretary of the US Department of Energy, 290 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: Chris Wright, and mister secretary, if you could lay out 291 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: for us what does a make energy great again? You know, 292 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: mega mega, What does a make energy great again policy 293 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 2: under Trump look like going forward? Does it include nuclear? 294 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 2: Is it new technology applied to fossil fuels? 295 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 4: Like? 296 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: What is the Trump administration trying to accomplish so that 297 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 2: not only are we doing as much as we can 298 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: with the technology we have and the resources we have 299 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: in the past, but that we do new things, innovative 300 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 2: things going forward. 301 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 4: Oh great, setting of that table. So I mentioned that 302 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 4: getting rid of a half a trillion dollars to make 303 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 4: energy expensive. There's also in the One Big Beautiful Bill. 304 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 4: Just returning to room of Law and allowing oil, gas 305 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 4: and coal producers to produce again on federal lands across 306 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 4: the country. This will lower baseline energy prices in the 307 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 4: coming years and decades in front of us. I squeezed 308 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 4: that one in there real quick. But there's also I'm 309 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 4: a free market guy, so I'm not a fan of subsidies, 310 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 4: But we do have tax credits in there for a 311 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 4: finite period of time for next generation nuclear and for 312 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 4: geothermal and for upbrads if we can get more power 313 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 4: out of hydro. But yeah, our administration is all on 314 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 4: trying to launch a new renaissance of nuclear energy. We 315 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 4: should be building these small, modular reactors. We should have 316 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 4: it cheaper to build big reactors. Yeah, go ahead. 317 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: No, I was going to ask, it's exactly what you 318 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: were going into, which is what does that look like? 319 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: Because nuclear unfortunately became a boogeyman of the environmentalist left 320 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 2: in this country, and so we're behind. I think where 321 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 2: we should be in nuclear development for energy purposes in 322 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: this country. What does it look like and what percentage 323 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: you think of our power could come from nuclear in 324 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: the years ahead. Given the Trump administration's willingness and your 325 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: willingness to promote the free market principles and technology principles 326 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 2: that can bring so much to the table. When it 327 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 2: comes to nuclear, well. 328 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 4: It's a little bit less than twenty percent of electricity today. 329 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 4: So after natural gas, which is by far and away 330 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 4: the leader, nuclear is second. But yeah, I mean that 331 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 4: could yeah, a couple decades from now, that could be 332 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 4: fifty forty or fifty percent of our electricity from nuclear. 333 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 4: We got to build a lot to do that. But 334 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 4: this is America. We can build a lot. The Nuclear 335 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 4: Regulatory Commission, the NRC has just made it so expensive, 336 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 4: so slow, and so risky to develop nuclear power in 337 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 4: the country. We basically stopped doing it for the last 338 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 4: few decades. So we need regulatory reform at the NRC. 339 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 4: We need regulatory reform from NEPA so that it's just 340 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 4: a check are we being smart about the environment, not 341 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 4: a weaponized thing. You could just have lawsuits and stop 342 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 4: anything from being built. We need to have a five 343 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 4: permit on federal lands. Department of Energy will be in 344 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 4: charge of that. We will have next generation test reactors 345 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: running twelve months from today at our Idaho National Lab facilities. 346 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 4: There like the technology is there at the private capital, 347 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 4: is there, the interest is there. We just need the 348 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 4: government to get out of the way and let capitalism 349 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 4: and free market forces bring us a very exciting few 350 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 4: decades with rapid growth in nuclear energy. 351 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: We're talking to Energy Secretary Chris right Buck just asked, 352 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: and you are hearing a lot of talk about the 353 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: need for nuclear power. Underscoring all of this based on 354 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: the people that I talk to, is there isn't enough 355 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: discussion about all of the power and energy that's going 356 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: to be necessary for AI. That the amount that this 357 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: is going to demand, the amount that it's going to 358 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: soak up, is just off the charts. That I imagine 359 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: is something you're spending a decent amount on as well, 360 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: for AI, for the AI revolution to take place and 361 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: for America to lead. What sort of energy do we 362 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: need to create that isn't being created now? Is that 363 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: accurate based on what you're seeing. 364 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 4: No, you're absolutely right, Leny give them numbers real quick. 365 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 4: We have so here we are twenty twenty five five 366 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 4: years from now, we're going to need be at least 367 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 4: another one hundred gigawatts of generation. A gigawatt is like 368 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 4: a big coal power plant, a big natural gas plant, 369 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 4: a nuclear plant, some nuclear plants are two or three gigawatts, 370 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 4: but one hundred gigawatts of additional power five years from now. 371 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: And in the current plan, there is a plan to 372 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 4: shut down one hundred gigawatts of mostly coal plants over 373 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 4: the next five years. If we did all that, we'd 374 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 4: have to build two hundred gigawatts of new power generation 375 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 4: to meet that projected demand. And what's in the queue 376 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 4: right now that's visible or applying for a permit or 377 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 4: acquiring land of firm capacity about twenty gigawatts, So a 378 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 4: gaping hole. Which is why this administration in my department 379 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 4: are going to be very carefully scrutinizing does it make 380 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 4: sense to shut down that coal power plant like the 381 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 4: one they tried to shut down in Michigan and over 382 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 4: one gigawatt power plant fifteen years left the plant life, 383 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 4: and for political reasons we want to get rid of cold, 384 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 4: we're going to shut that puppy down. I used emergency 385 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 4: powers to keep it open. Two days in that same 386 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 4: Midwest grid there was a blackout. Like, we've just got 387 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 4: to stop shooting ourselves in the foot by closing existing plants, 388 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 4: and we've got to make it much much easier for 389 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 4: American businesses, to build new natural gas plants, to build 390 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 4: new new parent plants, to build new geothermal and next 391 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 4: generation electricity generating capacity. Just wind and solar just is 392 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 4: simply not an answer. You know, it's really hot in 393 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 4: DC today, but the wind is still no wind power 394 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 4: at time of peak demand. And the winner it's really 395 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 4: cold at night, but we don't have any solar power. 396 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 4: And when you're in a cold of the huge cold front, 397 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 4: it's again a high pressure system, no wind. So we've 398 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 4: just got to get smart about energy in the United 399 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 4: States again. But it's business and private entrepreneurs that are 400 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 4: going to drive this. We just need the government to 401 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 4: be out of the way and a credible partner for 402 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 4: permitting and any other infrastructure that needs to be built 403 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 4: to support it. 404 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 5: But I'm up. 405 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 4: This is America. We can build things again. 406 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: One more for you, mister Secretary. Thank you for being 407 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 2: with us in terms of exports for particularly oil and 408 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: natural gas. I know we've been doing very well. And 409 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 2: America is really the world's fossil fuel the true fossil 410 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 2: fuel superpower. We don't necessarily think of ourselves that way, 411 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: but I think the numbers certainly bear that out. Is 412 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: there going to be would you expect it an increase 413 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 2: in that and how how do you see it affecting 414 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: global demand? 415 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 4: Yes, there's going to be a huge increase of that. 416 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 4: The United States is already by far the largest exporter 417 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 4: of natural gas in the world, and we will double 418 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 4: that in the next five years. In the five or 419 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 4: seven years after that, we could double it again, so. 420 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 6: America will just be the dominant supplier of natural gas 421 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 6: around the world. That's twenty five percent of global energy 422 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 6: comes from natural gas and it's the fastest growing source 423 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 6: of energy on the planet. So super excited about where 424 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 6: all this could go. 425 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 4: And I've got to jump on to you. 426 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: No, we know, we like the optimism. Thanks for joining 427 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: us right after cabinet meeting. Secretary of Energy Chris Wright, 428 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, sir. 429 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 6: Love to show you guys run keep up the great work. 430 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: The Team forty seven podcast is sponsored by Good Ranchers 431 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: Making the American Farm Strong Again. You're listening to Team 432 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: forty seven with Clay and Buck. 433 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: We are joined by doctor Marty McCarey. He is the 434 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. Doctor McCarey, we 435 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: appreciate you, sir. We remember your truth teller in the 436 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 2: dark days of COVID madness, and now you are at 437 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 2: the FDA and part of the mah H approach to 438 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: America make America healthy again. I saw your op ed 439 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 2: in the Washington Post on getting drugs approved much more 440 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 2: quickly and efficiently. That should be that would be helpful. 441 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 2: But let's just start with this is what is the 442 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: top of your agenda for MAHA. How are we going 443 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: to make America healthy again? Now that that is your portfolio. 444 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 5: Well, good to be with you guys. You know, we 445 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 5: are changing the entire approach to healthcare in the United 446 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 5: States under Secretary Kennedy. It's not just chemotherapy and insulin 447 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 5: and ozepic. We're now having research on root causes at 448 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 5: the NIH. We're investing in the food side of the FDA. 449 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 5: People forget that the f and FDA stands for food, 450 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 5: not federal and so we are focused on healthy food 451 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 5: for kids. We've got tremendous traction with the petroleum based 452 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 5: food died Baan. We're going a step further looking at 453 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 5: all the chemicals and the food supply that are banned 454 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 5: in other countries. We are focused on the drug side 455 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 5: and device side, more cures for the American people. We'd 456 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 5: love to see a cure for certain kinds of cancer, 457 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 5: stage four cancer, drugs that melt away cancer. We want 458 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 5: to see a cure for type one diabetes, for Alzheimer's, 459 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 5: we want to see meaningful treatments for als. And we 460 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 5: want to see a universal flu shot so we don't 461 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 5: have to play a guessing game each year. And one 462 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 5: of my personal missions is to make sure that our 463 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 5: veterans have a rapid decision on treatments for PTSD. 464 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on with us and the 465 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: fact doctor McCarey and I always want to go back 466 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: and re emphasize this that you were one of the 467 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: truth tellers during COVID, And I'm curious now as we 468 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: are working through the MAHA movement, you have RFK Junior, 469 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: and you have you and doctor Bodicharia, and I'm sure 470 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: there's many many more people that we don't even know 471 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: the names of. Do you feel in many ways like 472 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: all of the slings and arrows that you took and 473 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: that many of your colleagues took have been vindicated in 474 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: what you said? And feel as if hey this is 475 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: an opportunity to rectify a lot of the scientific wrongs 476 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: on a big picture that came from somebody like doctor 477 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: Fauci lecturing everyone and saying, I am the science. Don't 478 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: challenge science. It has to feel in some way vindicating 479 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: to be in the position that you are in now. 480 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 5: Well, I think this is a time for us to 481 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 5: demonstrate humility, the same humility we called for. When you 482 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 5: don't know something as a doctor, you just need to 483 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 5: say we don't know or we think this might be 484 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 5: the case. The absolutism that we saw during COVID, which 485 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 5: was not based on science, but it was under the 486 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 5: guise of listening to the experts and don't question us, 487 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 5: it did a lot of damage. I mean, ignoring natural immunity, 488 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 5: putting masks on toddlers for three years, insisting schools stay 489 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 5: shut for a year and a half. Somehow this became 490 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 5: partisan and it's really an ugly chapter. So we are 491 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 5: trying to demonstrate transparency and humility throughout our health agencies 492 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 5: and as role models, and I think, you know, we're 493 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 5: making a lot of progress in that way. We for example, 494 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 5: put out a strong warning on myocarditis with the COVID vaccines. 495 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 5: We're not approving COVID vaccines for healthy children without a 496 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 5: clinical trial first. We're getting back to gold standard science 497 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 5: and we're using common. 498 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: Sense, Doctor mcarey. What are some of the ways that 499 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: we can see improvements in the drug I mean, this 500 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: is what you wrote about in the Washington Post editorial 501 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: right getting faster approval because one thing I know right 502 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: now from the look people think Pharma and a lot 503 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: and a lot of people in the right in particular 504 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: get you know, they bristle a little bit, but Farma 505 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: does make things like statins which save a lot of lives. 506 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: Pharma has incredible drugs that are helping with andre with 507 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 2: rare types of cancer. We want there to be breakthroughs, 508 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: we want there to be cures. What are ways we 509 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: can get to those cures faster? And is artificial intelligence 510 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 2: something that you see helping just go through all the 511 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 2: data and get to cures faster for the diseases that 512 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 2: we want to see left in the past. 513 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 5: Absolutely. And look, as a doctor at Johns Hopkins for 514 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 5: most of my career, I saw how drugs would cure 515 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 5: people and people got terrible diagnoses and they would ask, 516 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 5: is there anything promising out there, I think we have 517 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 5: to ask a big question that really hasn't been asked before, 518 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 5: and that is, why does it take over ten years 519 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 5: for a new drug to come to market? We have 520 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 5: got to cut the red tape and these unnecessary delay 521 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 5: all of the bureaucratic processes and just get back to 522 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 5: our job of making a prompt decision on safety and efficacy. 523 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 5: And you know, if there's a drug where there's no 524 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 5: hope or there's a small population of affected, I believe 525 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 5: in both the spirit and the letter of right to 526 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 5: try that the President has put out there. 527 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: How much of what you deal with is fixable from 528 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: a cultural perspective, And let me build on that a 529 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: little bit, make the question a little bit maybe more understandable. 530 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: One of the things we worry about. I think if 531 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: you're out there and you're a parent like I am 532 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: and like Buck is, is so much guidance is constantly shifting. 533 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: And if Trump is in office right now, we're very 534 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: thankful that you're the FDA commissioner. But let's say that 535 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, god forbid, had won, or that she wins 536 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty nine, and we get a brand new 537 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: team of leadership at many of these agencies. If the 538 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: culture underneath is rotten, then it becomes very difficult to fix. 539 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: Can you fix the culture of the FDA? How would 540 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: you assess based on your time there so far, the 541 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 1: culture actually is. 542 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 5: I think it is a culture that can be influenced. 543 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: You know. 544 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 5: I spend essentially every day on campus at the FDA. 545 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 5: It's a beautiful campus. I meet with the reviewers and 546 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 5: the scientists and the inspectors, and the folks that are 547 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 5: working on childhood team, vaping reduction, and all of the people. 548 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 5: You know, the FDA regulates twenty percent of the US economy. 549 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 5: I'm on the ground, and I think when you're insulated 550 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 5: as a leader, you can become a villain. But when 551 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 5: you're on the ground and people see that, hey, I'm 552 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 5: a cancer surgeon from Johns Hopkins, and I've got scientific credentials. 553 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,239 Speaker 5: I've published over three hundred scientific peer review studies. All 554 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 5: of a sudden, now you're a scientific and you're not 555 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 5: some you know, caricature. And so I've been on the ground. 556 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 5: The culture at the FDA is strong and getting stronger. 557 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 5: The trains are running on time, and so the FDA 558 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 5: is going to continue to be strong. 559 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: What are some of the areas where you're hoping we 560 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 2: could see major breakthroughs I mean broadly speaking, right, not 561 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 2: not asking about any particular thing that's you know, in 562 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 2: trials or but you know, people are hearing about crisper technology. 563 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: Obviously I brought up AI and I do know there 564 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 2: are some people, doctor McCarey, in the biotechnology space who 565 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: think that we could be on the precipice of a 566 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 2: golden age of discoveries that will just help you know, 567 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: you said that you're changing the approach to healthcare overall. Right, 568 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: that's part of the mission. Where are some of the 569 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: likely discoveries in the near future, I mean over the 570 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: next four years. Do you think that we could see 571 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: some pretty amazing things happen that either extend lives, save lives, 572 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: improve lives thanks to technology and research that's going on 573 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: right now. 574 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 5: I do. I do. And let me tell you why, 575 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 5: I clay, because we're going to try to do everything 576 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 5: possible during my time at the FDA to cut the 577 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 5: unnecessary delays, the waiting around, the idle time, the time 578 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 5: that drug developers and inventors say where they're just doing 579 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 5: guest work because they can't talk to anyone at the 580 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 5: FDA to find out what they want in the application. 581 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,719 Speaker 5: We just announced yesterday that all of our decision letters 582 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 5: are going to be public information, so companies are not 583 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 5: going to have to do guestwork to figure out how 584 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 5: the FDA thinks or what they want in an application. 585 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 5: We're increasing communications so a company can call us and 586 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 5: ask a question instead of doing guest work for a year. 587 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 5: And we have now a powerful AI tool that we 588 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 5: just launched across the FDA all of the centers where 589 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 5: reviewers have incredible ductational power now to organize applications and 590 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 5: to summarize these giant, gnarly one hundred thousand page applications. 591 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 5: We're getting away from paper. We're doing a lot to 592 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 5: cut the waste. 593 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: What should people know, Doctor McCarey, and he's the head 594 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: of the FDA, came on the show for years before 595 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: he was the head of the FDA. What is the 596 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: absolute latest on the COVID shot. I know there's been 597 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: I think you came on right after the decision was 598 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: made not to recommend it necessarily for young people that 599 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: is very young. Where are we now? I don't even 600 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: know what booster people are on. But for people out 601 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: there who have kids, I know there's a lot of 602 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: concern about the number of shots that they're getting, a 603 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: lot of examination of what is necessary, what is not. 604 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 1: What would you say parents should know about that? 605 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 5: Well, eighty five percent of healthcare workers said no to 606 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 5: the last COVID booster last fall, and I should tell 607 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 5: you something. You know, maybe there's a high risk group 608 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 5: where it makes sense. We're gonna tell folks to talk 609 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 5: to their doctor. The government is not your doctor. But 610 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 5: are we going to just blindly rubber stamp COVID boosters 611 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 5: for young, healthy teenagers every year in perpetuity, such that 612 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 5: a ten year old girl today is going to get 613 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 5: sixty more COVID shots once every year for the rest 614 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 5: of our lifetime. No, we're not going to do that 615 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 5: without some clinical trials supporting that theory. So we're getting 616 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 5: back to gold standard science and I think people appreciate it. 617 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 5: We've outlined our whole framework for COVID vaccines in the 618 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 5: New England Journal of Medicine, and we're being very transparent 619 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 5: about it. It's not we're not doing deals with companies. 620 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 5: We're being very public and transparent about everything and I 621 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 5: think if we can do this everything well, if we 622 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 5: can cut the red tape, be transparent, show humility, we 623 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 5: can see cures for type one diabetes and neurodegenerative disorders, 624 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 5: and we can get to a universal flu shot for EXIS, 625 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 5: which is something in the works in early development, so 626 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 5: we don't have to guess every year what the strain 627 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 5: is going to be. 628 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: Dodger McCarey, we appreciate the time, and we appreciate all 629 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing. Have a fantastic weekend and 630 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: we'll have you on again soon. Don't hesitate to reach 631 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: out anytime. We can help get the message out that 632 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: you think is important. 633 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 5: Great. Good to be with you guys. Thanks so much,