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Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, Welcome to episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast.
Speaker 1: I am Devin, joined as always by Joe and Steve,
Speaker 1: who's being a little but today he's some more. I
Speaker 1: promised not to sabotage you anymore. We are ten minutes
Speaker 1: into recording already and we haven't recorded anything. This is
Speaker 1: so you're going to tell them about our So we're special. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we're in the month of October now, welcome. And
Speaker 1: historically what we do is we kind of pick a
Speaker 1: theme for the month of October because I don't know, Halloween,
Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries, it makes sense. This year we decided to
Speaker 1: Last year we did murders really really. This year we
Speaker 1: decided to do what we're calling Thinking Sideways is Most Wanted,
Speaker 1: where we actually did a poll for all of our
Speaker 1: social media users and they all voted. Um, we made
Speaker 1: a list of the fifteen most something like that, some
Speaker 1: number of the most requested unsolved mysteries that we get,
Speaker 1: and then we had people vote on the ones that
Speaker 1: they wanted the most. So we've taken the top I
Speaker 1: think five, five or six something. That depends on exactly
Speaker 1: how it susses out. We are still negotiating how long
Speaker 1: some of them are going to be. Don't don't bother
Speaker 1: to go find the Lincoln vote, guys. Voting is already
Speaker 1: closely comes out. Yeah, but we're going to do the
Speaker 1: fourth runner up today and then you know, Halloween Special
Speaker 1: will be the first most requested, most voted one twill indeed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So stay tuned. It's going to be fun series. This
Speaker 1: is our fourth runner up and today we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about the Springfield three. Indeed. Ready, Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 1: On June six, Susie Streeter and Stacy McCall were celebrating
Speaker 1: their high school graduation. One of them was eighteen, the
Speaker 1: other was nineteen. The school had offered a non drinking
Speaker 1: grad night. Did you guys have that? We did too? Yeah,
Speaker 1: where they well you're probably too old a underage, k Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was no such thing as underage drinking at that point.
Speaker 1: It um. So if you're unfamiliar with this concept, basically
Speaker 1: what it is is it's like a big old party
Speaker 1: night Ours was casino themed. We did it at a
Speaker 1: water park, but they didn't they wouldn't tell you where
Speaker 1: it was. They just it was just a surprise. The
Speaker 1: school put it on um for us. At least they didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't tell us where we were going. They just
Speaker 1: said pack a swimsuit and a change of clothes and
Speaker 1: a couple of the things, and you write it in
Speaker 1: a you know, in a bag, and you hand your
Speaker 1: bag over and they take you to the place and
Speaker 1: you're locked in all night. Shut in. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: shut in basically, and it's a fun party as long
Speaker 1: as you're lame like me and didn't drink in high
Speaker 1: school and like thought that hanging out was really fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It was. It was was just hanging
Speaker 1: out in the gymnasium. Yeah that sounds awful. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: the local water park that you guys know, the indoor
Speaker 1: water park very close to here. Um, And they also
Speaker 1: set up a bunch of casino tables and they had
Speaker 1: like a mechanical bowl and it was really fun, but
Speaker 1: also like there was yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the story
Speaker 1: not about that. The story is about the fact that
Speaker 1: Susie and Stacy decided that sounds lame, we don't want
Speaker 1: to do the shut in thing, because I think that
Speaker 1: was going to be in their jam, wasn't I think
Speaker 1: it was. It sounded like it was going to be
Speaker 1: a lame one, like like Steve's yeah we grat I
Speaker 1: graduated in this right around the same time as these two.
Speaker 1: So the shut ins were kind of a new idea,
Speaker 1: but nobody figure out how to make an enticing yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So they and a group of friends, it wasn't just
Speaker 1: these two girls decided they would not do the shut
Speaker 1: in and they would do their own party. And there
Speaker 1: were a series of parties involving alcohol that were half
Speaker 1: high school graduation. Of course there is of course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they decided water park theme apparently, So this group of
Speaker 1: friends decided that on Sunday, which was the next day,
Speaker 1: the seventh, they would all go to the water a
Speaker 1: water park that was kind of close, but it was
Speaker 1: kind of a longer drive, like a half hour drive
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, but they were Their plan was they
Speaker 1: were going to drive there and to a motel that
Speaker 1: was close to the water park that night. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the sixth and stay there. The whole group was going
Speaker 1: to do that and then they would just go to
Speaker 1: the water park the next morning. That was the plan,
Speaker 1: but the parents weren't too enthusiast. Yeah, well, as you
Speaker 1: can imagine, right, you're underage, it's late, you've been celebrating
Speaker 1: with drinks, whether we told you you could or not,
Speaker 1: and now you're gonna get into a bunch of cars
Speaker 1: and drive on the freeway. Yeah. And you know, none
Speaker 1: of I've listened to a fair number of interviews with
Speaker 1: parents that were involved in this whole situation, and none
Speaker 1: of them seemed to you know, they all kind of
Speaker 1: seemed to be understanding and okay with the fact that
Speaker 1: the kids were going to drink, and really their their
Speaker 1: concern was like, hey, maybe don't go drive for a
Speaker 1: long time after you've been drinking, not like, hey, don't drink.
Speaker 1: So they decided instead of going to the hotel, they
Speaker 1: would stay with their friend Janelle, who was also a
Speaker 1: part of this party. She was a senior. She was
Speaker 1: also a senior. Yeah, so they got to her house
Speaker 1: after one of the parties. But it turned out I
Speaker 1: don't know why Janelle didn't know this, but apparently she didn't.
Speaker 1: But it turned out that all of her extended family
Speaker 1: was staying for the graduation. They were all from some
Speaker 1: of the another yeah, so they were visiting, so they
Speaker 1: were all staying there. So the house was pretty full,
Speaker 1: and you know, the girls could have just slept on
Speaker 1: the floor, but Susie's mom lived pretty close by and
Speaker 1: she was a she was a single mom, so it
Speaker 1: was just her at the house, and you know, there
Speaker 1: was plenty of rooms. So Susie said, you know what,
Speaker 1: Stacy and I are going to go. We're going to
Speaker 1: drive back to my mom's house and we're gonna stay
Speaker 1: there tonight. And her mom's name was Cheryl, and her
Speaker 1: mom's name was Cheryl. So we've got Susie, Stacy, and Cheryl.
Speaker 1: This is You've got to kind of keep these straight, guys,
Speaker 1: because it is if you don't, if you're not reading
Speaker 1: it constantly, it will get a little confusing. Because we've
Speaker 1: got so it's it's Susie Streeter and her mom Cheryl,
Speaker 1: and then the other girl is Stacy Call and she's
Speaker 1: the friend. There's gonna be a lot of name dropping.
Speaker 1: So I just want to try and lay some I
Speaker 1: work for folk because I read two or three articles
Speaker 1: and then went, wait, what which one And especially when
Speaker 1: you get with the with the daughters, it was the
Speaker 1: daughter and the friend. I can they all have different
Speaker 1: last names? Yeah? That was the other part. Daughters in
Speaker 1: this story don't have the same last name, which makes
Speaker 1: it tough. Yeah, although SUSY's brother does have the same
Speaker 1: last name as herr. Yeah, that was the only consistent
Speaker 1: was the only one. So so I'm sorry I interrupted.
Speaker 1: So they're they're they're going to Cheryl's house. So they're
Speaker 1: going to Cheryl's house. Yeah, uh, And they drive separately.
Speaker 1: They have both have their cars wherever they were, so
Speaker 1: they decided to drive separately over to Cheryl's house. And
Speaker 1: they called Cheryl out about like ten thirty that night
Speaker 1: to say, hey, we actually decided we're going to come
Speaker 1: back there after we're done partying. Okay, but they continued
Speaker 1: to be out partying for a while after that. You
Speaker 1: look confused. Well, no, what I'm what, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: reconcile and maybe you can help me get a beat
Speaker 1: on this is I know that Stacy called her mom
Speaker 1: and told her mom that she was going to be
Speaker 1: staying at what's the Janelle's house, so she hadn't she
Speaker 1: didn't know about this change of plans. And so I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to figure out, did they all plan to
Speaker 1: do that and she just didn't call her mom or
Speaker 1: do you have a good sense of it? I think
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a plan necessarily, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't know. I think it just happened,
Speaker 1: and you know, and the reading that I saw it
Speaker 1: did say that Susie called her mom to discuss the plans,
Speaker 1: although I guess now that I think about it, didn't
Speaker 1: clarify what plans they were talking about. So it could
Speaker 1: have been the change of plans from the motel to
Speaker 1: Jannelle's house, and that she never they just showed up
Speaker 1: at Cheryl's house. At the teenage girls and the teenagers,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say girls are teenagers, they're they're prone to
Speaker 1: just erratically changing play and and everybody please do keep
Speaker 1: in mind this is pre cell phone. Yeah, two, So
Speaker 1: they weren't gonna just text mom and be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're coming over now. Act really just kidding. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't send her an email because it's you know, four
Speaker 1: K modem or whatever. They were. Yeah, and they actually
Speaker 1: and the girls didn't arrive at Cheryl's house until like
Speaker 1: to fifteen is what they guess, Am. So I would
Speaker 1: suspect that the plans kind of change. Everyone is asleep
Speaker 1: at Janelle's house and they didn't want to wake anybody
Speaker 1: up using the phone, so they just headed over there.
Speaker 1: But they drove separate cars. Cheryl had been home all evening.
Speaker 1: She was reportedly refinishing a dresser. That's according to a friend.
Speaker 1: She spoke to a friend on the phone at like
Speaker 1: eleven fifteen PM who said she was talking about the
Speaker 1: project she was working on, which was refinishing a dresser.
Speaker 1: And that's like the last confirmed anything we know about
Speaker 1: them at all. All three three, all three not a
Speaker 1: clue left behind. No. Essentially, sometime between two fifteen am
Speaker 1: and eight am, these three women just vanished, basically, I
Speaker 1: mean really the evaporated. Yeah, for for all anybody can tell,
Speaker 1: they were just raptured clothes and all. Seriously, I mean,
Speaker 1: like that's they just disappeared. So when when the raptor comes,
Speaker 1: you don't get to take your purse with you, I
Speaker 1: don't think so. Yeah, So Janelle, when Stacy and Susie
Speaker 1: left Janelle's house, she said, all right, you know what,
Speaker 1: just call me in the morning, like eight am. Like
Speaker 1: let's wake up at eight um. You know, I think
Speaker 1: the water park opened at like nine or something. So
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, you know what, call me at eight um.
Speaker 1: We'll figure out who's driving all of that stuff and
Speaker 1: then we'll just go from there. So she was expecting
Speaker 1: to hear from them at eight am sometime in the morning.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're teenage kids. They sleep in. They
Speaker 1: did until two in the morning. Yeah, I don't if
Speaker 1: I'm up till two in the morning, I don't get
Speaker 1: a bit eight am. But I think I did when
Speaker 1: I was eighteen, especially if I was excited about something. Okay. Yeah, Anyway,
Speaker 1: she doesn't hear from them, and she just calls the house,
Speaker 1: and I think it was reported to be pretty close
Speaker 1: to eight you know. She seemed she was kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, ready to go and a little annoyed that
Speaker 1: they hadn't called her yet. So she called them, and
Speaker 1: she called a couple of times and there was no answer,
Speaker 1: and so she called her boyfriend to come pick her
Speaker 1: up um and drive her over to Cheryl's house. When
Speaker 1: they got there, all three of the cars because Susie
Speaker 1: had her own car, Stacy had her own car, and
Speaker 1: then Cheryl had our car. Um. All three of the
Speaker 1: cars were parked outside when they walked onto the porch
Speaker 1: and they noticed there was broken glass on the porch.
Speaker 1: And now said that she noticed that the dome light
Speaker 1: on the porch, the globe glass globe, Yeah, that it
Speaker 1: was broken, Yeah, it was. It was it. I could
Speaker 1: never because you see the recreations and I've seen the
Speaker 1: picture of the house. It's actually a globe though, right.
Speaker 1: I know that sounds dumb to ask, but the domes
Speaker 1: or as we refer to him, the boob lights are
Speaker 1: always in the actual ceiling. So that makes a difference
Speaker 1: in terms of an actual globe. Okay, they know, I
Speaker 1: don't think they make the as you so absolutely put
Speaker 1: a boob lights as porch lights usually yeah. Much, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's too much wiring to have. I don't know
Speaker 1: I'm making that up. Nobody pleased. Yeah, we'll survey. So Janelle,
Speaker 1: being a good friend and neighbor, thinks, oh that's not good.
Speaker 1: I'll sweep that up. I think her boyfriend swept it up.
Speaker 1: I think her boyfriend did, but one of the two
Speaker 1: of them swept up. Yeah, they swept at the glass
Speaker 1: and threw in the trash, which is is really nice. Um,
Speaker 1: and later on the police were helpless to that in
Speaker 1: a second. So it was nice of them. And they
Speaker 1: just figured, oh, well, the girls are still asleep. They
Speaker 1: knocked or you know, Janelle and her boyfriend knocked a
Speaker 1: couple of times and they didn't hear response, and they figured, oh, well,
Speaker 1: they're just still asleep. Better going and you know, wake
Speaker 1: him up. And the door was unlocked. It was closed,
Speaker 1: but it was unlocked, and they went in and genuinely
Speaker 1: didn't think anything was wrong. Um, you know, all of
Speaker 1: their stuff was there, their purses, all three of the
Speaker 1: women had purses there, and then um, Susie and Cheryl
Speaker 1: both were smokers, and they both of their packs of
Speaker 1: cigarettes were there, and car keys everything. Uh, the dog
Speaker 1: named Cinnamon, which was reportedly agitated but not I mean,
Speaker 1: not harmed or anything and probably just hungry. Yeah, probably,
Speaker 1: So they went in and um, Janelle reported that it
Speaker 1: looked like um, both the beds, Susie and Cheryl's beds
Speaker 1: had been slept. In course, that doesn't necessarily mean anything,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people that's true. Yeah, so that
Speaker 1: doesn't really mean a whole lot um. But she didn't
Speaker 1: really know what was going on, so she just started
Speaker 1: to leave the house. They were like, all right, I
Speaker 1: guess they just went to the water park without us,
Speaker 1: without any of their stuff. Um. And right as Janelle
Speaker 1: was leaving, the phone rang and she answered it because
Speaker 1: I guess she thought maybe. I don't know why she answered,
Speaker 1: so would you answer somebody else's phone in their house,
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're not home, not actually, because
Speaker 1: I mean she's wondering what happened, and she's thinking maybe
Speaker 1: somebody's maybe it's Susie calling. Well, I don't know why
Speaker 1: Susie would call, because she wouldn't expect Janelle to be there.
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe it was like a brother saying like,
Speaker 1: you know, because she did have a brother, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it was the brother saying like, oh I just
Speaker 1: wanted to check. Oh yeah, and they were going to
Speaker 1: do this thing. You know, I get Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: know it is. I agree, it's weird to me too,
Speaker 1: but that's what happened. She answered the phone and on
Speaker 1: the other end was a male voice just saying lud
Speaker 1: pervy comments to her, And so she hung up the
Speaker 1: phone and it rang again and it was the same
Speaker 1: person saying the same sort of stuff. You know, the caller,
Speaker 1: I d has eliminated that one thing from our society
Speaker 1: of nothing else. Star star whatever it is are six
Speaker 1: nine is the like re dial. But yeah, there's the
Speaker 1: one to block your number. But they're good enough and
Speaker 1: picking those things up. That almost never happens anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is pretty great. I was getting all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was awful. No, so Janelle and her boyfriend laughed
Speaker 1: after the two weird creepy pervy calls. They didn't feed
Speaker 1: the dog, I don't. She didn't say anything about feeding
Speaker 1: the dog. She also didn't report them missing because yeah,
Speaker 1: she thought were Yeah, I mean, I guess on the
Speaker 1: one hand, right, but I would like I probably would
Speaker 1: have like told my mom or somebody. I would have
Speaker 1: told somebody, Oh, yeah, it was weird. They weren't there.
Speaker 1: They're like those mean girls. They left, but like it
Speaker 1: was weird. Their cars and their purses were there, So
Speaker 1: like she may very well have done that maybe and
Speaker 1: whoever she said it to just didn't you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a very innocuous thing. I went over to
Speaker 1: somebody's house. They weren't there, like they told me they
Speaker 1: were gonna be. How familiar to this? Yeah, it happens
Speaker 1: all the time, I guess, like for me, and probably
Speaker 1: it's because I come from this like unsolved mystery headspace.
Speaker 1: But like the glass was broken, the door was unlocked,
Speaker 1: the dog was mad, their stuff was all there, they weren't.
Speaker 1: I would be like, Wow, there's lots of weird little
Speaker 1: red flags here. Maybe you know you're from the cell
Speaker 1: phone generation where you're in contact all the time. I
Speaker 1: think Joe might be in the same boat. I've gone
Speaker 1: over to people's house pretty cell phone. I was supposed
Speaker 1: to meet him at two o'clock or whatever. Knock on
Speaker 1: the door and they're not there, And you sit in
Speaker 1: your car and you wait for five minutes. Then you
Speaker 1: wander around the house and you don't go into the
Speaker 1: house and see that all their stuff is there though, no, no,
Speaker 1: see that's but that's the thing is, I would never
Speaker 1: have just wandered unless it was a house that I
Speaker 1: went into on a regular basis, And maybe Janelle did maybe, yeah,
Speaker 1: she might have been very familiar with the mom and yeah, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I guess that brings up a bit of a point um,
Speaker 1: the fact that their cigarettes were there. Cheryl's son, Slash,
Speaker 1: Susie's brother, describes his mom as the kind of chain
Speaker 1: smoker who wouldn't leave a pack in a room when
Speaker 1: she left the room. She always had him with her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so if Janelle knew, she might not have known that.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, maybe i'd be hard to not know.
Speaker 1: Count mom ever were such a that's true, that's true. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So okay, after this, Janelle and her boyfriend go to
Speaker 1: the water park. The girls aren't there, but I guess
Speaker 1: she doesn't think anything of it. And Stacy McCall's mom
Speaker 1: was expecting a call from her daughter in the morning,
Speaker 1: and she knew that she was supposed to be a
Speaker 1: Janelle's house, so she called Janelle's house and Janelle's sister
Speaker 1: answered and said, oh no, no, they stayed at Susie's
Speaker 1: house last night, and she was kind of annoyed, but
Speaker 1: she believe she was going to buy like a wedding
Speaker 1: dress or something with her other daughter. There was some
Speaker 1: big appointment that she had to keep. So she thought,
Speaker 1: all right, well, I don't know the phone number over there,
Speaker 1: so I'll just swing by after. Did she know where
Speaker 1: they actually lived? She I think she got the address
Speaker 1: from Janelle Jane's sister because they knew she didn't have
Speaker 1: the phone number because they just recently moved into that house.
Speaker 1: She got the she got the address somewhere somehow because
Speaker 1: she later went by the house. This was like eight
Speaker 1: or nine. No, no, no no, I'm sorry. This was more
Speaker 1: than twelve hours after they had left. It was in
Speaker 1: the afternoon, and they don't know what time, to be honest.
Speaker 1: So she went to the house and she also found
Speaker 1: the door to be unlocked, and also found all the
Speaker 1: cars there. And she says that when she went in,
Speaker 1: the TV was turned on to like fuzzy white noise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just like white noise. And she said that she had
Speaker 1: a really weird, eerie feeling about the whole situation. She
Speaker 1: also saw that there were messages on the message machine.
Speaker 1: So she yeah, although at this point, like, if you
Speaker 1: haven't heard from your daughter in a really, really, really
Speaker 1: long time, that's a long time to not hear from
Speaker 1: your daughter after a night of drinking, I think, But
Speaker 1: so she listens to the messages, and I think there
Speaker 1: was just the one. There was several, but I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know that we have an exact number because
Speaker 1: she didn't remember. She didn't remember, she didn't remember what
Speaker 1: the content of the messages was. She didn't There was
Speaker 1: one message that she remembered being really really suspicious. It
Speaker 1: was a male voice who was saying, I think things again. Probably,
Speaker 1: she said she didn't remember, and also, oops, she deleted
Speaker 1: the message. Oops. So the cops just to like head
Speaker 1: all of your screaming nightmare sounds off. The cops are
Speaker 1: very sure that that was probably a pretty important clue.
Speaker 1: It could have been. Any clue that you lose is
Speaker 1: important because if it's not there anymore, you spend so
Speaker 1: many man hours trying to change sit down. So regardless
Speaker 1: of if it actually was worth a damn, it was important.
Speaker 1: It's it kind of just been just some some pranks
Speaker 1: there again, some jerk Stacy. Stacy McCall's mom was worried,
Speaker 1: so she decided to go to the the police. She hadn't
Speaker 1: heard from her daughter. She felt really weird in the house.
Speaker 1: She heard a weird message, so she went to the
Speaker 1: police and reported the missing, and the police of later
Speaker 1: since revealed kind of another big problem with this case
Speaker 1: is that apparently anywhere between ten and twenty people came
Speaker 1: to the house looking for Cheryl and Stacy and Susie
Speaker 1: and let themselves in and walked around contaminated, the contaminated
Speaker 1: the whole thing. It's it's little things like um in
Speaker 1: Susie's room, apparently the blinds the not the blinds, the
Speaker 1: curtains were open a little bit like somebody was peeking out,
Speaker 1: which I think would be a very interesting clue if
Speaker 1: we could know that Stacy had done it, or Susie
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, see I'm doing it already. If we knew that,
Speaker 1: if we knew that one of the three women had
Speaker 1: done that, it would be interesting to know because it
Speaker 1: would at least mean that, oh, there was something that
Speaker 1: had happened outside the house. But the other hard part
Speaker 1: here is that there's the dog. Yeah, it could have been.
Speaker 1: The sense that I had was that it was more
Speaker 1: than just a dog, like shoving his face into the
Speaker 1: you know, it parted a little at the top. Oh see,
Speaker 1: I got that when when I heard the way it
Speaker 1: was described, or read the way it was described, I
Speaker 1: got the idea that it was, you know, maybe a slit.
Speaker 1: It was about a foot or so tall. Interesting and
Speaker 1: just a little bit open, because to me that insinuates
Speaker 1: peaking when you're barely pushing them open so you can
Speaker 1: see out, but nobody realizes you're doing it, which is
Speaker 1: how cats and dogs leave curtains when they're done watching outside.
Speaker 1: That's fair. I hadn't thought of that. It could just
Speaker 1: be a case of sloppy curtain clothing, which is rampant
Speaker 1: in this country. Yeah, really, it's a problem. Also as Joeman,
Speaker 1: and the broken glass would have probably been a pretty
Speaker 1: important clue, you know, like well a brake pattern, was
Speaker 1: the bull broken as well? You know, so it's little
Speaker 1: things like that that would have been probably how was
Speaker 1: the grass glass broken? Was it like you know, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you can't tell things like that based
Speaker 1: on how big the pieces are. Did it look like
Speaker 1: and did it look like somebody had like whacked it
Speaker 1: with a bat or like hit it up or like
Speaker 1: or did it look like it just finally came loose,
Speaker 1: because they do that worthless, and those things are known
Speaker 1: to occasionally just drop to the ground. So that would
Speaker 1: have been a pretty interesting clue to have, but we
Speaker 1: don't have it. So so the police not fish the
Speaker 1: fragments out of the garbage. I guess not. I guess
Speaker 1: by that time they work one. So then I never
Speaker 1: right over on Sunday morning, huh, at like eight o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning, and the cops must have shown up
Speaker 1: sometime Monday morning. So because they didn't go right away,
Speaker 1: they did they went over pretty quick and left a
Speaker 1: note on the door that was like, hey, Cheryl, when
Speaker 1: you get home, can you let us know. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: they didn't hear anything for another day and they were like, alright, fine,
Speaker 1: I guess we'll go. So it's very possible that Monday
Speaker 1: was trash day and her garbage was already out, or
Speaker 1: maybe the Janelle's boyfriend just threw it in that and
Speaker 1: you know, wheeled it out there. Or maybe he didn't
Speaker 1: even throw it in a trash can. Maybe he just
Speaker 1: threw it in the street. I mean, you know, that
Speaker 1: is sadly quite possible. Yeah, I mean it's totally possible
Speaker 1: that he was. He was like, oh, yeah, i'll clean
Speaker 1: this up, no problem. Janelle. Okay, huh, what's going on? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What were you doing in here? Now? Yeah? I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pause here to mention before we move into the theories situation,
Speaker 1: that there have been more than five thousand tips regarding
Speaker 1: this case, and I am just going to briefly mention
Speaker 1: two of them because I think they're interesting and important.
Speaker 1: The first tip is that a server at one of
Speaker 1: Cheryl's favorite restaurants, I think it's called George's Steakhouse in
Speaker 1: Springfield said that the women came in sometime between one
Speaker 1: and three am, and was this all three women or yes,
Speaker 1: it was all three women. They all arrived together and
Speaker 1: departed together, and she said that Susie seemed to be
Speaker 1: really drunk and upset about something and Cheryl was trying
Speaker 1: to calm her down the whole time. But even that
Speaker 1: was a regular hang out of hers of Cheryl's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the police seemed to discount this a little bit. They say,
Speaker 1: you know, it's really popular and it was really busy,
Speaker 1: so it's possible she was mistaken it for a different night,
Speaker 1: which is fair. I mean, you know, if they could
Speaker 1: have gone there Friday night instead to celebrate graduation and
Speaker 1: that it just got a little mixed up and it's
Speaker 1: not on you know, at eighteen or nineteen when you're
Speaker 1: drunk and you know, emotional times of graduation are happening.
Speaker 1: The other thing is witness testimony is not all that reliable,
Speaker 1: as we talked about. Have you guys, I just watched
Speaker 1: the other day. Have you seen that movie Horns with
Speaker 1: um yeah, Daniel Daniel Redcliffe. I just watched that the
Speaker 1: other day. And that guy has been doing some weird
Speaker 1: movies and he's been doing a good job in him
Speaker 1: because I'm sure that after eight Harry Potter films he
Speaker 1: wants to do anything not normal. But there's a there's
Speaker 1: a scene where somebody is making a claim and it
Speaker 1: turns out there making this claim because they want to
Speaker 1: be the star in front and center and there's but
Speaker 1: people do that weird crap, you know. Oh well I
Speaker 1: want to be I want to be remembered forever. I
Speaker 1: want to help. Yeah, and yeah people, it is the
Speaker 1: attention thing. Yeah. Another tip is that a woman said
Speaker 1: that she saw a woman matching Susie's description driving an
Speaker 1: early modeled Dodge Van that was described as either moss
Speaker 1: or Celery Green, depending on where you read or hear
Speaker 1: about it. The witness that that Susie looked like she
Speaker 1: had been crying heavily and was turning the van around
Speaker 1: that she was driving, and uh said that a she
Speaker 1: heard a male voice say, don't do anything stupid as
Speaker 1: Susie was turning the van around. Because of this tip,
Speaker 1: the police got a van that matched to the description.
Speaker 1: It was the same year, make and model and painted
Speaker 1: it the color that was described and put it out
Speaker 1: in front of the police station with the sign that
Speaker 1: was like, hey, if you see a van like this,
Speaker 1: let us know of it. I love this fan. Do
Speaker 1: you know why I love this fan? Because it looks
Speaker 1: like the Scooby Doo Gang van kind of. It's kind
Speaker 1: of the right color, it's kind of the right make
Speaker 1: and model. It's really funny. But how do you think
Speaker 1: I think of Scooby Doo and Gang. No, but I
Speaker 1: really it's it's just I love whenever I can find
Speaker 1: a Scooby Doo reference to the story. You know the
Speaker 1: thing out that van. The only place I ever saw
Speaker 1: pictures of it was on Disappeared, that episode that they
Speaker 1: did on this they they're a picture of it is
Speaker 1: attached to all three of the Women's Charlie Project page. Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's it's accepted more than just the disappeared, because
Speaker 1: I I would have a problem if it was just
Speaker 1: the disappeared. Yeah, yeah, I have lots of problems with disappeared.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we want me to get
Speaker 1: on that shoapbox, I think gonna be long enough at this. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but no, I agreed. I did see it places. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was my thing. I was like foote But I
Speaker 1: don't know for sure. Yeah, it could have been recreation.
Speaker 1: Who knows. They recreate dramatic recreation, not just to recreate.
Speaker 1: The picture of that van um is on the Charlie
Speaker 1: Project website, So I I'm going to accept it as
Speaker 1: a real thing. Okay, so that a dramatic vein. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they ever after they got this van, they ever show
Speaker 1: it to their witness and say, hey, just look like
Speaker 1: actually yeah they it better still have a van lineup. No,
Speaker 1: that's why they matched the color was because they said
Speaker 1: it was this the color you were describing, And she said, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was the color um. But so she actually didn't
Speaker 1: know that this like man hunt was happening for a
Speaker 1: few days. Was this daytime, by the way, or nighttime?
Speaker 1: It was morning? But I thought she she didn't report
Speaker 1: this for week well, that was it. She didn't know
Speaker 1: it was happening, so she didn't report it. I think
Speaker 1: it was like a week and a half after something
Speaker 1: that um, and her story was um, I guess corroborated
Speaker 1: kind of by a newspaper boy who was delivering. So
Speaker 1: it was an it was in the early morning, Um,
Speaker 1: he was delivering what he said, the van was brown. Um.
Speaker 1: But that gives us a bit of a time frame
Speaker 1: as well, that it was kind of earlier in the morning,
Speaker 1: but it was light out. It wasn't It's June, so
Speaker 1: it's not like yeah. And then a man later told
Speaker 1: authorities that he had seen a van matching the description
Speaker 1: that we've just talked about that was being driven by
Speaker 1: a blonde woman. Well it was. It was parked in
Speaker 1: a grocery parking lot. Um. But the woman behind the
Speaker 1: wheel was a blonde woman. And he wrote down the
Speaker 1: license plate number because for some reason he thought it
Speaker 1: was suspicious. This was before he knew that it was
Speaker 1: tied up and missed disappearance. But he tossed the paper
Speaker 1: he wrote the license plate number down before he contacted
Speaker 1: the police. And then he contacted the police, and then
Speaker 1: the police said all right, well, we're going to hypnotize
Speaker 1: you then to find out what the license plate number was,
Speaker 1: and he was only able to recall three of the digits,
Speaker 1: the first three digits of the license plate. So those
Speaker 1: are some interesting, incredible tips. Why in the hell do
Speaker 1: they hypnotize people don't know? It's just suggestions. I know
Speaker 1: it's bad. It actually can introduce more unreliable Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: every time it's like, what was it the Catty murders?
Speaker 1: When they hypnotize that one kid, All this stuff comes out.
Speaker 1: But what was the question you asked? Like, we never
Speaker 1: get to hear what the questions were specifically, it's just
Speaker 1: what the answers were because they're leading you. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys have done it. I've gone to
Speaker 1: a hypnotist before and they are hugely leading. You didn't
Speaker 1: have managed to hypnotize me. Maybe that's because he sucked
Speaker 1: at that's why his questions were so leading. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But well, you're on a soapbox already again. It's okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about theories. Um, and I just want to
Speaker 1: quickly do a little bit of a disclaimer. Some of
Speaker 1: the people we're going to talk about did some pretty
Speaker 1: really horrible, and we're going to talk about it, not
Speaker 1: graphic detail. But some of our listeners are like under fifteen,
Speaker 1: so like maybe closer ears. Yeah, most of ours. Most
Speaker 1: of our listeners are pretty tough. Yeah, most of them.
Speaker 1: I just don't want you to you old girls nightmarage.
Speaker 1: I still feel bad about that. Yeah, yeah, I mean too.
Speaker 1: And there are literally no happy theories here. There's no
Speaker 1: run away and join the There's no one, I don't think,
Speaker 1: on this planet who believes that something good happened to
Speaker 1: these women. Extremely unlikely. Yeah, with that being said, let's
Speaker 1: go ahead and start into the theories. The brother our
Speaker 1: first suspect. Yeah, yeah, that brother. Yeah, we're doing We're
Speaker 1: doing suspects as theories. I guess I don't think he
Speaker 1: was ever really a suspect. That was I think he
Speaker 1: was a person of interest and as soon as they
Speaker 1: actually interviewed him, they decided or just kidding, he did
Speaker 1: have a drinking problem, But then again, he would he drank.
Speaker 1: I would say, I would say that he had a
Speaker 1: drinking problem in that he got really angry when he
Speaker 1: drank as much as he drank, So I would qualify
Speaker 1: that as a drinking problem versus somebody who drinks a lot,
Speaker 1: and it's still like you can hang out with him
Speaker 1: and that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so that and that's
Speaker 1: a sad thing about it, is that that guy's kind
Speaker 1: of a rift in the family. Yeah, it did. And
Speaker 1: he had recently gotten into a fight with his mother
Speaker 1: and sister. His sister used to his sister used to
Speaker 1: live with him, Um, and he got really angry and
Speaker 1: drunk one night and they got in a huge fight,
Speaker 1: and so she left and um, Susie and Cheryl had
Speaker 1: decided at that point that they would just no longer
Speaker 1: be in contact cut him off. Yeah, they were cutting
Speaker 1: him off basically. He's obviously I don't think he's real,
Speaker 1: like a real suspect at all. I think they looked
Speaker 1: into him because he was a male who was connected
Speaker 1: to the story, and he was an easy person to
Speaker 1: you know, say, well it wasn't that person and people
Speaker 1: you look at first family and you know and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, family, ex boyfriends, ex girlfriends. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So I saw an interview with him and yeah, he
Speaker 1: didn't do it. No, I don't think so it didn't. No.
Speaker 1: Next is the mafia. Apparently there are a lot of
Speaker 1: local rumors. I couldn't find anything to robberate anything, except
Speaker 1: for a bunch of people on either Reddit or web
Speaker 1: sleuth saying, well, I'm a local and I heard this.
Speaker 1: Apparently Sheryl's sister was involved in the mafia, and this
Speaker 1: was a mafia hit to hurt the sister. I don't Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I don't think so, because unless
Speaker 1: the mafia's changed that they used to have kind of
Speaker 1: a code of a code of ethics about stuff like this,
Speaker 1: about leaving leaving the family out of things. Yeah, especially
Speaker 1: female members of family members. And wait, what was Cheryl's
Speaker 1: last name? Love it? Well know her maiden name was.
Speaker 1: It's not a very Italian sound. No, that's true, I
Speaker 1: don't remember you. That's why I'm asking it is either
Speaker 1: because you never see it used. But I don't know
Speaker 1: that you're required to be to be Italian to be
Speaker 1: in the mob, though, No you're not. But I would
Speaker 1: think that to be somebody to be in a place
Speaker 1: where we're gonna whack your family, let will of hit,
Speaker 1: You've got to be really deep in the family and
Speaker 1: probably grew up in it. Yeah. Probably. I didn't get
Speaker 1: that impression at all from this single mom who's a hairdresser. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was a hairdresser. By the way, we didn't mention
Speaker 1: that she was a hairdresser. Oh yeah, No, she had
Speaker 1: totally had that birch blonde hair. All three of them.
Speaker 1: The hair was just three of them. The entire town
Speaker 1: that they call it the Kansas Clock Actually no, seriously,
Speaker 1: that's what it's called Kansas that anyway. Next, uh, I
Speaker 1: guess a group of people is um Dustin Recla or
Speaker 1: Michael Clay or Joseph Friedel or all three together some
Speaker 1: combination there. So Dustin was actually Susie's boyfriend, and tell
Speaker 1: about March. I'm guessing it was that. It's never like
Speaker 1: explicitly said, but she broke up with him after this
Speaker 1: thing that we're going to talk about. All three of
Speaker 1: these men were charged with the men they were young men.
Speaker 1: They were like eighteen seventeen nineteen. They were charged with
Speaker 1: felony institutional vandalism for breaking into a mausoleum on February
Speaker 1: twenty one. Classic guys, really classy. Oh Steve, pretty close though,
Speaker 1: But oh Steve, I'm marry. I have to worry about
Speaker 1: these things. I don't know how long you're going to
Speaker 1: be married for I have Google calendar tell me yeah, yeah, better. Um.
Speaker 1: So this was actually the reason that Susie broke up
Speaker 1: with Dustin. She apparently was hanging out with the boys
Speaker 1: and didn't know that that was the plan until suddenly
Speaker 1: she was there at a mausoleum and they were breaking
Speaker 1: into things, and you know, virtually I would I would
Speaker 1: not want to date a grave robber. No, me neither.
Speaker 1: So she broke up with him, and she provided at
Speaker 1: a statement to the police which was instrumental in the
Speaker 1: conviction of these three boys. Men. And they have just
Speaker 1: to describe their crime a little bit more. They are
Speaker 1: not only broke into the mausoleum, they took some skulls
Speaker 1: out of the mausoleum, a bunch of skulls, and some
Speaker 1: other skeleton bones, skeleton bones, skeletal remains um and Dustin
Speaker 1: actually sold twenty six grams of gold fillings from the
Speaker 1: skulls at a local pond shop. I believe that's where
Speaker 1: he sold it. And the dude who worked there was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll buy him from you, but then I'm going to
Speaker 1: call the cops. Yeah, because I'm sorry. You're pretty damn obvious.
Speaker 1: They were probably a few full on gold teeth in there.
Speaker 1: They look like teeth. They're very It's a little surprising
Speaker 1: because I thought that's what the people at the funeral
Speaker 1: homes did. Yeah, I thought, yeah, I thought they pulled
Speaker 1: those before they buried peoples. Oh no, in Springfield, get
Speaker 1: it gets some sort of specially pay fivefore we won't
Speaker 1: rob the corps. Maybe he who knows. So there's this
Speaker 1: little tidbit that gets thrown around a lot that I
Speaker 1: think is like blown way out of proportion. But apparently
Speaker 1: after the cops were called, they went to, uh question Dustin.
Speaker 1: His sister answered, um, she didn't let them in, but
Speaker 1: they were able to see behind her that there were
Speaker 1: a lot of occult things like am and according to
Speaker 1: the Disappeared episode, red candles. So that's I think that's
Speaker 1: so crazy, blown out of proportion, because especially because they say, oh,
Speaker 1: when they came back the next day, Dustin was there
Speaker 1: and all the things were gone, and it's just kind
Speaker 1: of like, oh my god. In the early nineties, you
Speaker 1: gotta remember there was such a weird devil worship panic
Speaker 1: in this country though people were specially Springfield is like
Speaker 1: you would you call it Central and West I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's in that Bible belt to me, And there
Speaker 1: were i mean even where I lived in in Oregon,
Speaker 1: there was a bit of that, oh my gosh, don't
Speaker 1: do this, it's safe. But also in the nineties, right,
Speaker 1: that was like the start of the hot topic generation.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you have both the goth hot
Speaker 1: topic kind of punk rocker kids growing up as well
Speaker 1: as the people who are really scared of most people.
Speaker 1: And to have some red candles really means that you're
Speaker 1: dumb and shop at Spencer's more than it does you're
Speaker 1: worshiping the devil. But okay, yeah, and it probably wasn't
Speaker 1: some giant tapestry. It was probably a damn poster held
Speaker 1: up with it. Probably was a poster of like a
Speaker 1: band that just happened to band post something. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: would make sense generally speaking, when you're if you're worshiping
Speaker 1: the devil, you don't actually put obvious signs where they
Speaker 1: can be seen right from your front door. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the other part, in the back room or something like that. Well,
Speaker 1: according to the local police, they always had signs with
Speaker 1: an air that's a devil worshiping this way. The way
Speaker 1: they made it out to me is when I was
Speaker 1: that age, So I don't think it was any of
Speaker 1: these boys, Although apparently Dustin gave an interview in which
Speaker 1: he said he hoped the women were dead. Well, he
Speaker 1: might have been upset with Susan. I'm sure he was.
Speaker 1: He had been charged at and that was a pretty
Speaker 1: dumb thing to do. When they're like, hey, we're going
Speaker 1: to question you in conjunction with the disappearance of three
Speaker 1: women who are probably dead. For you to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope they are, it's like, well, maybe that was
Speaker 1: a dumb choice, But I don't think anybody really thinks
Speaker 1: that he did it. Did he say that after they
Speaker 1: had disappeared? Is that when he said? I thought so? Okay,
Speaker 1: And I believe that too, But I thought he was
Speaker 1: being questioned in conjunction with I see. I know that
Speaker 1: he did it in front of her if I remember
Speaker 1: he was in front of a reporter, so I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure he was at the courthouse, probably had to go
Speaker 1: in for a hearing. He realizes he's gonna get the
Speaker 1: entire book thrown at him at his curious and has
Speaker 1: to take it out on somebody. So let's blame that
Speaker 1: bleep who turned me in. Let's say some really bad
Speaker 1: things about her. I think that's exactly what I think.
Speaker 1: That's what everybody thinks pretty much. But he's on the
Speaker 1: list of suspects. Yeah, but yeah again, great robbing is bad,
Speaker 1: but it's not quite like mass murder. Yeah. So next
Speaker 1: is um Larry Dwayne Hall. This guy is weird. It's
Speaker 1: kind of developmentally disabled, I think is the term. Well,
Speaker 1: but he's creepy looking. I don't mean like, you know
Speaker 1: his mental factor charge manson creepy looking. Yes, and he's
Speaker 1: got the big mutton chops and he was a civil
Speaker 1: warrior actually with his twin. Yes, he's a twin, Gary
Speaker 1: and Larry. Yeah, because because parents, if you have twins,
Speaker 1: don't be so freaking cute to name your kids with
Speaker 1: rhyming similar names when one of them ends up to
Speaker 1: be a psychopaa did you go do you know, making
Speaker 1: the normal one feel even weirder? But yeah, know it
Speaker 1: was because correct me if I'm wrong here. Joe Gary
Speaker 1: was the normal one and it was Larry who had
Speaker 1: it was born with an umbilical quarter on his neck
Speaker 1: because this is what I heard. Yeah, okay, because that's
Speaker 1: oxygen deprivation. As a child. Yeah, so he was a
Speaker 1: little what did you call it development? Yeah, that might
Speaker 1: be an offensive term by now, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: apologize my aggression, I know, but anyway, Yeah, so he
Speaker 1: was very low like you or is or is I
Speaker 1: should say, well, yeah, and Helogy is still alive about
Speaker 1: in prison of course. Okay, So Devin, what what's this guy?
Speaker 1: He was traveling in the area, right, yeah, right for
Speaker 1: a recreation, wasn't it. Well there was. There was like
Speaker 1: a bunch of happening. Well, yeah, his because it was
Speaker 1: going to keep screwing their names up. Way to go, parents,
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep complaining about this family of the
Speaker 1: noble One had gotten into Civil War reenactments, and he
Speaker 1: got Larry into it because Gary always had friends, and
Speaker 1: Larry was the one who sat in the corner by himself,
Speaker 1: and he brought him to those and he started making friends.
Speaker 1: And I know that like one of the reason he
Speaker 1: that Larry really liked it is because he could grow
Speaker 1: the big mutton chops and hide the fact that he
Speaker 1: had really bad acne, because if you see the pictures
Speaker 1: of him, they're massive mutton chops um like the size
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. But but I know that he he was.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously the guy had something wrong because he
Speaker 1: didn't shower all the time. Like that was one of
Speaker 1: the reasons that people wouldn't hang out with him is
Speaker 1: he didn't shower. But if you're going to do a
Speaker 1: really realistic civil war reenact, that's it's perfect right, But
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't show up to the month at
Speaker 1: a time meeting stinking of your own filth. Probably okay, well,
Speaker 1: but um, okay, you're right. What was I thinking? Obviously
Speaker 1: Larry needed a caretaker, but no, but he um. He
Speaker 1: got arrested in nineties three for the me I believe
Speaker 1: it's the murder of Lori to Peas and he drove
Speaker 1: a van like this. This guy. I really wanted to
Speaker 1: be this guy because it makes it so easy, except
Speaker 1: for the fact that his mental faculties make it so
Speaker 1: hard to pin him down. Because he had a van,
Speaker 1: he would pick up girls and by his own admission,
Speaker 1: sometimes nothing happened and he left them, you know, he
Speaker 1: took them somewhere, or sometimes they didn't like He covers
Speaker 1: one lady to come to his van so he could
Speaker 1: show her a photo album of antique cars. Girls don't
Speaker 1: be nice to the guy who gives you the creeps, Like,
Speaker 1: don't go to his van. Never, Like it doesn't even
Speaker 1: if he doesn't give you the creeps, because some of
Speaker 1: the people were going to talk to, like on the
Speaker 1: face value, if I didn't know their criminal history, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, me be, I'd go to your van
Speaker 1: with you. Don't ever go to somebody's van. Just don't
Speaker 1: do it. Don't do it. Yeah, as a child never, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really want to see a van bike though, bicycle,
Speaker 1: I really want to see that. Yeah. But so as
Speaker 1: as far as Hall goes, I I can't believe he
Speaker 1: did it himself. But if he had a partner, maybe
Speaker 1: somebody with a little more brains, then well that's he
Speaker 1: suspected of abducting and possibly killing up to what is it,
Speaker 1: forty women? Okay, but but those are all one offs,
Speaker 1: Like somebody caught his attention and he followed that person
Speaker 1: and then talked them into getting into the creepy van
Speaker 1: and everything was okay, and abducted them, yes, not like
Speaker 1: murdered and disappeared them forever. And they were one off,
Speaker 1: one at a time. That's why I really, I'd be
Speaker 1: so easy to paint it on this guy, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you can tell he's got problems. Yeah, but no, I
Speaker 1: mean I think three women as soon as as soon
Speaker 1: as they start to go bad. If you know, if
Speaker 1: you're not on top of it, there's going to be
Speaker 1: some fighting back, somebody's gonna get away. It's you know. Actually,
Speaker 1: I really kind of think that it would be it
Speaker 1: would be hard for one person to do this. I
Speaker 1: agree you two guys with guns could do it quite easily.
Speaker 1: One guy with a gun, I suppose. I suppose. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So let me let me ask you a question. Larry,
Speaker 1: I know, according to some sources on the internet, could
Speaker 1: have been working in cahoots with his brother Gary, because
Speaker 1: some people say Gary was probably the one that was
Speaker 1: doing it and he was the mastermind and just blaming it. Yes,
Speaker 1: And and Larry of course just went along with it,
Speaker 1: not knowing any better, just admitted to what his brother
Speaker 1: told him to admit to. But Joe brings up a
Speaker 1: good point. And I want to ask this, because I
Speaker 1: haven't seen this anywhere. Do any of our suspects, and
Speaker 1: I'm using air quotes on that, how are they have
Speaker 1: they ever been known to work with a second or
Speaker 1: third party no, except for if it were the three boys,
Speaker 1: that's the only where they could have been. We we've
Speaker 1: got a good idea of multiple Yeah, okay, yeah, next up,
Speaker 1: Stephen Eugene Garrison, Sarah killers always have a name. We
Speaker 1: always have three. Yeah. I don't understand that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand if it's three first names, because I've heard
Speaker 1: that before, but it's now they just used all of
Speaker 1: their names, not always Stephen Eugene Garrison. Those really aren't
Speaker 1: first names to me. I wonder if Larry Dwayne Hall
Speaker 1: not first names? All first names Larry and Dwayne are
Speaker 1: Hall is not a first name? Well, Dwayne the way
Speaker 1: he spells it as dumb Dwayne d Wayne. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: that's not unusual. Yea, not too terribly unusual. Okay, that's so.
Speaker 1: Garrison is currently serving forty years for raping, sodomizing, and
Speaker 1: terrorizing a female college student in the summer of Springfield.
Speaker 1: He apparently part evidently had air quote friend who was
Speaker 1: drunk at a already once and this air quote friend
Speaker 1: confessed to killing the Springfield three. And it's unclear if
Speaker 1: the police believed that this was an actual friend or
Speaker 1: if it was an air quote friend as I've been
Speaker 1: referring to it. As he gave testimony, he said, Hey,
Speaker 1: actually I know something about the Springfield Three. I know
Speaker 1: about those missing women. Did he was this in the
Speaker 1: context of he was already in prison or he was yeah,
Speaker 1: and and friend? Is this in the context of I'm
Speaker 1: calling the radio or I'm going to the doctor to
Speaker 1: ask about this thing that my friend quote friend? And
Speaker 1: I don't know if the police believe that it was
Speaker 1: a friend that told him all this stuff or if
Speaker 1: he was just he's only serving forty years somehow for raping, sodomizing,
Speaker 1: and terrorizing a female. But hey, cool, he's going to
Speaker 1: get out sometime in his life. So if he admitted
Speaker 1: to doing the Springfield Three, obviously he would never get out.
Speaker 1: Um he was able to provide information that was unknown
Speaker 1: to the public, and um. Some of the formation led
Speaker 1: investigators to serve three search warrants on a property that
Speaker 1: had been owned by a name man named Francis Lee
Speaker 1: rob sr Is that the farm one of the places
Speaker 1: I think I seem to remember them going to was,
Speaker 1: you know, doing multiple checks on was a farm. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember what are we talking about?
Speaker 1: The farm that was owned by the concrete guys, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about Okay, this is a different parcel of land. Um.
Speaker 1: And it turns out Francis Lee Rob Senior, because he's
Speaker 1: got three names too, is also a convicted murderer. No
Speaker 1: seniors on a name, it's a suffix. He pled guilty
Speaker 1: to a second degree murder in conjunction with a drug
Speaker 1: deal gone awry. Uh. And apparently police initially thought Garrison
Speaker 1: might have been responsible, and then they kind of backed
Speaker 1: off that he's just a person of interest now because
Speaker 1: he was able to provide so many details that weren't well,
Speaker 1: so they thought he was potentially the murderer. But they
Speaker 1: but they also I presume, got a name of the friend,
Speaker 1: Lee Rob. Yeah, well that was the friend who owned
Speaker 1: the property that I mean, I don't know that it
Speaker 1: was the friend. This is the guy who owned the
Speaker 1: property that um. Garrison statements led the police to search
Speaker 1: who also happens to be a murderer. I'm so glad
Speaker 1: I'm not a cop and have to deal with that
Speaker 1: cat and mouse game of Well, I don't want to
Speaker 1: tell you who the friend is, but if you go
Speaker 1: to such and such address, oh, well that's where Mr
Speaker 1: Rob lifts. Yeah, well is it Mr Rob your friend? Well, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to run out of my friends, but
Speaker 1: it's such a weird time to get ubber hose. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So next up is Gerald Carnahan. So it turns out
Speaker 1: Springfield not a great place to be. Carnahan is serving
Speaker 1: a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the
Speaker 1: murder and rape of Jackie John's in five, which actually
Speaker 1: happened not in Springfield. It was not a He was
Speaker 1: just living in Springfield in in the early nineties and
Speaker 1: he didn't actually get a convicted of this. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: He got away with it, but it was pretty awful murder.
Speaker 1: He beat her up really bad. And he was actually
Speaker 1: on vacation with his family in a motel room and
Speaker 1: came back to the motel room and his mom was like,
Speaker 1: what happened to you? He was like, I got in
Speaker 1: a fight. So she took him to the hospital because
Speaker 1: he was covered in blood, and he told the people
Speaker 1: in the er that he had bit his own tongue
Speaker 1: in a fight, but the nurse was like, nah, somebody
Speaker 1: tried to bite your tongue out of your mouth, like
Speaker 1: while you were doing something back because it's just the
Speaker 1: way that the direction of the crescent. Yeah. Um so
Speaker 1: uh they actually found Jackie's body like like a hundred
Speaker 1: yards away from the motel that he was staying at.
Speaker 1: His criminal record is pretty long. I'm just going to
Speaker 1: read some. In January. On January he was charged with
Speaker 1: second degree burglary of a business um. On the same date,
Speaker 1: he was convicted of stealing from that business and arson
Speaker 1: to the same business. Apparently he wasn't He had some
Speaker 1: sort of a business himself and this was a competing
Speaker 1: con business business. Yeah. Yeah. On January tenth of that
Speaker 1: same year, he was charged with the attempted kidnapping of
Speaker 1: a girl uh in Springfield. In uh June one same year,
Speaker 1: he was charged with the assault of a law enforcement
Speaker 1: officer and lost unlawful use of a weapon. So I
Speaker 1: guess spent a lot of time in jail. Yeah, he did, so,
Speaker 1: I guess for me. His murder of of Jackie John's
Speaker 1: was really really brutal, and he did not clean himself
Speaker 1: up well. Granted it was in eighty five and the
Speaker 1: Springfield three went missing in two so he could have
Speaker 1: perfected perfected his art. God, I hate that said that,
Speaker 1: but he could have he could evolved, is the word
Speaker 1: I'm really looking for. Certainly abducting and murdering three people, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be beyond this guy. No, I
Speaker 1: don't think so. But interesting fact, I don't think the
Speaker 1: police have ever questioned him in conjunction with this case.
Speaker 1: Why not? I don't know. I think they don't think
Speaker 1: that he's a suspect. I don't know why. I was
Speaker 1: going to say. His m O doesn't seem to match.
Speaker 1: He's a messy, bloody, sloppy killer, which doesn't match up
Speaker 1: with a physical evidence that we have, right, which is
Speaker 1: no physical evidence exactly. Next is Robert Cox. I don't
Speaker 1: like this guy. I'm sorry, I've started. Every single one
Speaker 1: of these was just a huge sigh because, oh my god, like,
Speaker 1: how many horrible people in the early of in Springfield
Speaker 1: for real? Though? Yeah, but actually there's there's probably you know,
Speaker 1: it's probably every major sity is there's probably just I
Speaker 1: have to walk in the car tonight, So that's not well.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you know, if you ever really
Speaker 1: want to delve into the depths, God, what is it?
Speaker 1: Murder PDA? That is the list of serial killers and
Speaker 1: their alphabetical by state. That's a lot of them, and
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, I've done it. I've combed through
Speaker 1: it for different stories saying okay, well who was kind
Speaker 1: of active at that time? And it always takes about
Speaker 1: a dozen or so before I go, okay, stop reading it,
Speaker 1: look at the active date because it is such a
Speaker 1: horrible thing to read, like, I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: how people can look into these kind of cases all
Speaker 1: the time. I know that's why we mix it up,
Speaker 1: because I would go bunkers, Yeah, absolutely there, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I've got it. Some some FBI asant said
Speaker 1: at one time there's anywhere from like seven to ten
Speaker 1: active serial killers in the US at any given time. Great,
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Yeah, you're walking, so we're going
Speaker 1: to turn to the porch light and we'll watch from
Speaker 1: the window as long as it's yeah, yeah, something bad happens.
Speaker 1: We promised to send a text to the police. Thank you. So.
Speaker 1: Robert Cox is serving a life life sentence plus a
Speaker 1: consecutive fifteen year federal sentence for a robbery in which
Speaker 1: he held a gun to a twelve year old girl
Speaker 1: human shield. Yep. He was previously incarcerated on death row
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety for the brutal murder of a nineteen
Speaker 1: year old woman, but the Florida Supreme Court set him
Speaker 1: free after they determined there wasn't actually enough evidence to
Speaker 1: convict him, even though he had a trial of his
Speaker 1: peers and which they thought that he was guilty. Apparently
Speaker 1: that wasn't enough. Sometimes you know, you connect sleep convict
Speaker 1: a guy on on bad and I'm bad or skippy out,
Speaker 1: and it's just because you know that they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: well he wouldn't be here if it wasn't guilty of something.
Speaker 1: So well. In fact, so he had been extradited from
Speaker 1: California because he who's serving a jail sentence in California,
Speaker 1: and then in Florida they were like, oh, actually we
Speaker 1: have this thing we want to charge him for. And
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, it's a bigger sentence, no problem, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I put him on death row. Fine. Uh. And so
Speaker 1: once the Florida Supreme Court overturned his like his death
Speaker 1: row sentence he had, he went back to California to
Speaker 1: finish serving his sentence there. But I think it probably
Speaker 1: didn't help his case to be in there and for
Speaker 1: them to say like Okay, so where did you come from?
Speaker 1: And he was like, jail in California for doing a
Speaker 1: crime that probably didn't help help we extradited you from
Speaker 1: another state. That's actually one of the reasons that a
Speaker 1: lot of these, uh, these guys that have killed so many,
Speaker 1: they'll never admit to all of them because they will
Speaker 1: either in mean two ones that are in states that
Speaker 1: don't have the death penalty, or not admit to them
Speaker 1: if it is a state with the death penalty. Because
Speaker 1: I know that Larry Dwayne Hall, that's one of the
Speaker 1: things he won't admit to everybody. He won't even talk
Speaker 1: about him because he knows that some of those states
Speaker 1: have the death penalty. And I'm sure that Cox was
Speaker 1: probably you know, looking at the same thing Cox wasn't
Speaker 1: is he's still alive. Is a very terrifying man. He's
Speaker 1: the one you look at Did you look at pictures
Speaker 1: of him? Oh? Yeah, he's like a fairly attractive, charismatic
Speaker 1: guy who like doesn't necessarily look creepy, Like it's creepy
Speaker 1: to know what he did and think about the fact
Speaker 1: that like if he if I were his agent, he
Speaker 1: approached me in a bar, I would probably be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're cute, no problem, which is scary things to admit,
Speaker 1: right that, Like sometimes Serio would look like that. Sometimes
Speaker 1: they're not culture creepy. Sometimes that's true. So until later
Speaker 1: in life they at that tattoo between their eyes on
Speaker 1: the forehead with the yeah. So the zelo um I
Speaker 1: forgot to mention. So after after he finished his his
Speaker 1: term term sentence sentence in California, he was released and
Speaker 1: returned to his childhood home of Springfield, Missouri. Yea, Springfield, yea,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a weird Springfield's a weird little nexus point.
Speaker 1: Did you either of you notice that if you look
Speaker 1: at it on the map, there is a lot of
Speaker 1: major arterials, freeways and highways and stuff that kind of
Speaker 1: cut through it. Like the border of it. It almost
Speaker 1: looks like a triangle on its side, you know, like
Speaker 1: to play symbol on your DVD player. It's that shape.
Speaker 1: And that's because those three sides are created by major roads.
Speaker 1: And so it's one of those places that we've talked
Speaker 1: about these kind of places before. They're dangerous to live
Speaker 1: in because every creep drifts through them. Yeah, it's uh,
Speaker 1: it's true. It's it's a fairly large spread out town
Speaker 1: and and yeah, lots of highways. So yeah, you're getting
Speaker 1: all the all the worst of the worst driving through
Speaker 1: town any given time. Well, the thing is is, you
Speaker 1: know it's hard to track down, but did you actually
Speaker 1: find where their house was on the map? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I looked at the hospital. Well I found
Speaker 1: their house because if you dig deep enough you can
Speaker 1: find their address. It's not so deep. Yeah, well but
Speaker 1: it's not a lot of the places just ignore it.
Speaker 1: But the point is I found the house. It's actually
Speaker 1: on a main four lane road. It's like a block
Speaker 1: off of it actually makes it super easy to get
Speaker 1: it out. An interesting thing about where that witness saw
Speaker 1: maybe Susie driving the van was that it would have
Speaker 1: been if she had just taken a wrong turn instead
Speaker 1: of going to the highway, if she had taken a
Speaker 1: wrong turn, like maybe she was trying to stall or something,
Speaker 1: because it was apparently pretty quick to get the highway
Speaker 1: from their house. Yeah, it was right there, and then
Speaker 1: you were with the main business route. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: was like kind of the area. I got the impression
Speaker 1: it was like a cult det act like NEIGHBORHOODI area
Speaker 1: that would have been very clear that she wasn't going
Speaker 1: where she was supposed to if she was supposed to
Speaker 1: be driving on the highway anyway, Cox the woman that
Speaker 1: the family of the woman that he was on death
Speaker 1: row for killing Um. The Zeller family, Uh, they never
Speaker 1: doubted that it was Cox that murdered Um their daughter.
Speaker 1: And so they actually did a creepy, kind of horrible thing,
Speaker 1: but in this case, awesome thing. And they tracked him.
Speaker 1: They they made note of every time he moved, because
Speaker 1: this was before they actually kept those lists public. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a creepy thing at all. I
Speaker 1: think it was probably good for them, yea. So they
Speaker 1: actually Yeah, and when they found out that the Springfield
Speaker 1: three and gone missing and that Cox was in fact
Speaker 1: in the area at the time, they called the police
Speaker 1: and said, hey, just you know, this dude who's like
Speaker 1: a couple of times convicted murderer and abductor and overall
Speaker 1: horrible human being was in the area. This is kind
Speaker 1: of like his m O. You should check him out. Um.
Speaker 1: And the police have question Cox a number of times.
Speaker 1: He's currently in jail in Texas. They've questioned him like
Speaker 1: three times, I think, and every single time it's very
Speaker 1: clear that he's toying with them. Whether he did it
Speaker 1: or not, he's getting off on toying with them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's probably so, probably good entertainment for him. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot to do in prison. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: Did he gave an interview with a reporter once. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's the one that we all get to watch.
Speaker 1: I hate that interview. Oh he is so horrible, he
Speaker 1: says um. He stated multiple times, like dead pan to camera.
Speaker 1: Well I know they're dead, and I know they're buried
Speaker 1: somewhere near the city. I just know, he says, I
Speaker 1: just I just know. Actually, and they probably are dead
Speaker 1: and buried somewhere near the city. It's highly likely. And
Speaker 1: that maybe he maybe, you know, pulling the same card
Speaker 1: that all those drug store psychics do, but he's pulling
Speaker 1: it off in a way creepier way because he doesn't
Speaker 1: have the turbine and he doesn't have the globe. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: so that there are some other really big problems with
Speaker 1: the Cox. Thing is that they did they questioned him
Speaker 1: because the Zeller. It was it was quick. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like months and months after the women went missing. They
Speaker 1: heard about this once it hit the national news and
Speaker 1: they called the police. Um, and so within a week
Speaker 1: they were they were questioning Cox and he said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, um, it couldn't possibly been me because I
Speaker 1: was with my girlfriend. Yes, he had a girlfriend and
Speaker 1: her horrible and we were actually at church early on
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, so I couldn't have been involved at all.
Speaker 1: You know. I was at home asleep and then we
Speaker 1: woke up and went to church. And his girlfriend corroborated
Speaker 1: that story. She said, oh, yeah, no, he we went
Speaker 1: to church that morning, everything was normal, he was there. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until later after they broke up and
Speaker 1: he was convicted of another crime that they requestioned her
Speaker 1: and she said, oh no, no, I was lying. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: he wasn't home. I don't know where he was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here's a question, you know, I think we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before, maybe not, but I just always wonder how
Speaker 1: far is it routine to go to check a witness alibi.
Speaker 1: In other words, when the girlfriend says, yeah, we were
Speaker 1: at church, Oh really, okay, great, what church did you
Speaker 1: go to? What's the name of the pastor, And then
Speaker 1: go to the damned church and asked the people were
Speaker 1: there That's what makes this kind of a weak alibis
Speaker 1: because it's pretty easy to break. Yeah, so I just
Speaker 1: don't know. It depends on how big the church community is.
Speaker 1: I mean, really, you know, if it's a really big community,
Speaker 1: it's totally reasonable to expect that nobody would be able
Speaker 1: to remember if you know, one man was missing from
Speaker 1: a group. I don't know they should have You're right,
Speaker 1: they have. The parish knows if oh, yeah, she always
Speaker 1: comes by herself. He he works late, she says, or yeah,
Speaker 1: it was weird he wasn't there at that time. Like that,
Speaker 1: those things come out. People love to talk about each other,
Speaker 1: but it's less than less. So if it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he comes with her, sometimes he doesn't. Other times, I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened. But anyway, it turns out he
Speaker 1: had he had another alibi, which was turns out he
Speaker 1: after that one fell through. He he's swore uping down
Speaker 1: if he was as he stayed the night at his
Speaker 1: parents place, and his parents his parents corroborated that the
Speaker 1: girlfriend backed out. Yeah yeah, then he said no, no no,
Speaker 1: I was at my parents house. But at that point
Speaker 1: I would just not be believing the guy. Although even
Speaker 1: if he didn't have a good alibi. It doesn't mean
Speaker 1: he killed anybody. True. Well, actually I guess he did
Speaker 1: kill somebody, but yeah, not maybe maybe not, So he
Speaker 1: actually did. He worked with Stacy his father um for
Speaker 1: a while, not when they went went missing, but he
Speaker 1: did work with her father and would have met her
Speaker 1: when she brought dinners to her father at work. Her
Speaker 1: father was in the service department. Okay, yeah, service department
Speaker 1: of what I think it was like a mechanic shop
Speaker 1: where it was a dealership, Yeah, dealership, So he was
Speaker 1: working on cars there and then uh, Cox didn't have
Speaker 1: that job anymore. And actually when the women went missing,
Speaker 1: he was employed as a utility locator, which means that
Speaker 1: he was the guy who would knock on your door
Speaker 1: and say, hey, there's a problem with your gas line.
Speaker 1: You got to get out at two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: It would help to have an official van, an official uniform, Yeah,
Speaker 1: sure would. Well, the green van didn't seem to have
Speaker 1: gas company printing on the side of it. Didn't know,
Speaker 1: But if you've got a dude with the uniform, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe he had a magnet they make those.
Speaker 1: Well I was gonna say is. You know, the magnets
Speaker 1: weren't that common at that time. I remember them kind
Speaker 1: of coming out in the early nineties. But I also
Speaker 1: I don't think personally that I look or the gas
Speaker 1: company van because you look to see if the guys
Speaker 1: in his uniform, because the gas company has so many
Speaker 1: people in so many vehicles, god knows what the Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially if your porchlight is out, you're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to see if there's writing on the side
Speaker 1: of the van. Probably as much. Um the guy just
Speaker 1: showed up at the gun and didn't bother with the uniform. Possible, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And actually Cox had abducted a woman in five that
Speaker 1: seemed to be a big gear for getting abducted. Um.
Speaker 1: She was in an airport parking lot. Um. And he
Speaker 1: pulled a duffel bag full of automatic weapons and survival
Speaker 1: gear out of his trunk and threw it in her
Speaker 1: car and instructed her to drive to the mountains. She
Speaker 1: managed to escape by somehow convincing Cox that they should
Speaker 1: stop by her friend's house. He's an idiot, um yeah um.
Speaker 1: And then Cox held the friend hostage at gunpoint until
Speaker 1: the survived and arrested him. He's still an idiot and
Speaker 1: he had it. Turns out the way he had he
Speaker 1: had just forced her to drive by sticking a gun
Speaker 1: in her side, which I think is an important note
Speaker 1: because he could have been forcing Stacy to drive. Absolutely well, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very easy. He could have pulled a gun on
Speaker 1: one the other two. Okay, you kneel down her, I
Speaker 1: shoot her in the side. Okay, now you tie her up.
Speaker 1: Now you tie her up, now you drive. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's a very easy order to guess how it
Speaker 1: might have happened. Yeah, absolutely so, I think I I
Speaker 1: think he's a strong contender. I don't know people who
Speaker 1: could have done it. I still why not? It's um,
Speaker 1: it's another one of those too easy. He's made so
Speaker 1: many grandstanding attempts or not attempts, but he just stood
Speaker 1: up and he shouted at the world so many times
Speaker 1: I know something about this case when at the same
Speaker 1: time it's I'm locked in prison forever and nobody cares
Speaker 1: like he just wants something to be to people to
Speaker 1: look at him, because it's not uncommon for these guys
Speaker 1: to have this goal of I'm gonna go down in
Speaker 1: history as this, and then when that whole thing falls apart, crap,
Speaker 1: What else will I be remembered for? I got to
Speaker 1: do something, and so they you know, they kind of
Speaker 1: spitball something else together. I just he just he begs
Speaker 1: for attention. He begs for it too much for me
Speaker 1: to buy him. Now he hasn't. He said that he
Speaker 1: knows what happened, but he's not going to tell until
Speaker 1: after his mother dies. Yeah. Okay, that right there, that's
Speaker 1: a total crap line, absolute garbage. You know what, you
Speaker 1: just don't want to tell. You want people to to
Speaker 1: to root for your mom to die. Why Why did
Speaker 1: somebody kill his mother? Okay, okay, your mom just happened
Speaker 1: to have a little accident in the parking lot. You
Speaker 1: know they do of this crap on TV. Is they say,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry your mom died. Mom is totally in on it,
Speaker 1: families totally in on it. Called dad dad, Yes, she died.
Speaker 1: It was so tragic, it was so sudden. And then
Speaker 1: the cops are like, hey, so they remember us. I
Speaker 1: could totally totally be done and I'm sure it's been
Speaker 1: done before. I don't think it could in his case
Speaker 1: because his parents have provided his alibi for him, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, like at some point it's like they are
Speaker 1: supporting him. Either he was at their house and so
Speaker 1: they are confident that he didn't do it, so they
Speaker 1: don't need to fake the death because he has nothing
Speaker 1: to say or he wasn't and they know he wasn't
Speaker 1: and they know he did something, and they're not going
Speaker 1: to fake the death because why they're backing him up
Speaker 1: already and makes some liars. Maybe it's simplest thing to
Speaker 1: do is just kill her. This is okay, So we've
Speaker 1: got we've got in the wrong direction of trying to
Speaker 1: get the other really big question is where are their remains? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there's a hospital in Springfield called Cox Hospital. I
Speaker 1: think it's isn't it Cox Memorial South Hospital or something
Speaker 1: like that. It's a very low name. Yeah, there's no
Speaker 1: relation yeah to the six Yeah okay, um, and they
Speaker 1: were in the process of building a new parking garage
Speaker 1: that was poured concrete. A lot of people believe that
Speaker 1: their remains are actually the Springfield three remains are in
Speaker 1: the body of all three women? Are there? Who did
Speaker 1: they originally get a tip about this? There's actually got
Speaker 1: a lot of tips about it. Um, like a lot
Speaker 1: of tips. I don't remember how many it was, I
Speaker 1: would say it was more than fifty, and said, I
Speaker 1: think their remains are probably there. And the garage has
Speaker 1: been surveyed by a engineer of some kind of can't
Speaker 1: remember what kind of engineer he is, but he they
Speaker 1: have like he's like the sonar technology that yeah, training
Speaker 1: radar exactly, So yeah that thing. Um, and he actually
Speaker 1: worked with the government after nine eleven to help recover
Speaker 1: the body bodies after all of that stuff, so he's
Speaker 1: got a pretty solid track record. He came out and
Speaker 1: scanned the garage and um, they didn't say really anything.
Speaker 1: They just said, we're we want to see if there
Speaker 1: are some anomalies here. And he did the little And
Speaker 1: that's a reporter who brought him out, right, she is
Speaker 1: an investigative reporter. Yeah, yeah, she's when he started. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just trained. I think she actually even even hired him.
Speaker 1: She did. It's what's her name, Kathy something, Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: and she hired him to come out and I you know,
Speaker 1: the story is presented that she said, but we don't.
Speaker 1: We just want to know if there's some anomalies here.
Speaker 1: And he scanned the whole thing and he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's three right here. Uh, to our parallel and one
Speaker 1: it's perpendicular to them. And you know, it's not a
Speaker 1: perfect picture, but if I had to guess, it would
Speaker 1: be kind of what we would see at a grave site. Yep.
Speaker 1: He said it was about three feet down and she said, cool,
Speaker 1: let's dig this thing up. And the police said, Nah.
Speaker 1: Doesn't have the best relationship with the Springfield Police for
Speaker 1: being an investigative reporter. She seems to have really wrapped
Speaker 1: up the wrong way. And I think that most of
Speaker 1: these murmurs come from her. But there are murmurs out
Speaker 1: there that there's been kind of a willful slowing down
Speaker 1: or something similar of this case. I don't buy it.
Speaker 1: But there are some people out there who say, like
Speaker 1: the police aren't doing everything they could, which in this
Speaker 1: one instance, I will agree, Like, it wouldn't be so
Speaker 1: hard to get a freaking core sample, don't You don't
Speaker 1: have to start the whole thing up. Just take a
Speaker 1: core sample, like near are one of the anomalies and
Speaker 1: stick a camera down there. That's what they're gonna do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: two hole, Yeah, stick a camera. Or you get one
Speaker 1: of those body sniffing dogs and just let them loosen
Speaker 1: nearby and see if he makes a bee line for
Speaker 1: the whole Yeah, there's a check on that. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that would be well, you know, I've actually I've thought
Speaker 1: about this a lot. Okay, So the hospital doesn't want
Speaker 1: to do it unless they have to write. So of
Speaker 1: course their statement is we will comply with any request
Speaker 1: from law enforcement. That they say law enforcement in this
Speaker 1: case enthusiastic and law enforcements not enthusiastic. And I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you, I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that at this
Speaker 1: point law enforcement is not enthusiastic because they know they're
Speaker 1: gonna get nowhere. Like they've been dealing with it for
Speaker 1: over twenty years. They are tired of people bringing it
Speaker 1: up because they've gone to every length and if they look,
Speaker 1: they're going to open up another cannon worms because if
Speaker 1: they find something, they're gonna have to dig it up,
Speaker 1: and then it's gonna be, well, we found the bodies,
Speaker 1: but we don't know jack squat or look the body
Speaker 1: down't there, and people are just gonna bring the whole
Speaker 1: thing up. And I think it's total bad publicity for
Speaker 1: that police department. I think it's I think it's actually
Speaker 1: worse for them to just be sitting on their hands
Speaker 1: and not not taking taking advantage of this, because I
Speaker 1: don't disagree with that at all. Not cost much of
Speaker 1: anything to do some core samples. Actually you don't even
Speaker 1: do to do three, you just do one. But you
Speaker 1: know what, the guy in charge, he says, I don't
Speaker 1: want us to go through this, uh, this guano storm
Speaker 1: that's about to erupt if we open this up, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna push it aside and do nothing. He doesn't
Speaker 1: think about it that way. He just thinks, I don't
Speaker 1: have to do We don't we we're not going to
Speaker 1: deal with it. We're just done. We're done. I'm finished.
Speaker 1: That's all they're doing. I know that's what they're thinking.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the farm real quick? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: yea ya yah yah yah yea yeah yeah. So this
Speaker 1: is my my interesting little bit about this theory. I
Speaker 1: guess that they're buried there. Um. The police have searched
Speaker 1: this area in Webster County twice, once in and then
Speaker 1: again in two thousand two. The first time they refused
Speaker 1: to disclose what they found there. So they could have
Speaker 1: found absolutely nothing whatsoever. Could have found absolutely nothing whatsoever,
Speaker 1: but they the way they refused to disclose it is
Speaker 1: they said that there were private details pertaining to the
Speaker 1: case that they discovered, so they weren't going to release
Speaker 1: any of the details. Um, which is a suspicious way
Speaker 1: to say we didn't find anything, But it's a way
Speaker 1: that you could say, but they might have found something
Speaker 1: that was unrelated to the case that led them to
Speaker 1: a completely different case. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Hey, look it
Speaker 1: turns out the guy's got a giant pot farm. The
Speaker 1: second time they went, it was because two women called
Speaker 1: in a tip. The specifics of said tip are hazy
Speaker 1: at best, UM, but they did say that two men
Speaker 1: who were employed at the local concrete company owned this
Speaker 1: property in the nineteen nineties um, and that the men
Speaker 1: owned a van that was very similar to the one
Speaker 1: described vibed. And also that the men left the area
Speaker 1: the Springfield area, like within two weeks of the Springfield
Speaker 1: three disappearing. And I think it's interesting just just on
Speaker 1: pure coincidence, I guess, since with this it's easy to
Speaker 1: just go on pure coincidence that two dudes who own
Speaker 1: a van that's similar to this, that their their land
Speaker 1: was searched really soon after that who happened to work
Speaker 1: for the local concrete company, which likely provided the poured
Speaker 1: concrete for said therefore, they've known the site. They've known
Speaker 1: the site and would have been able to go and
Speaker 1: like lay some concrete and probably people wouldn't be like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's an extra layer of concrete there. This tip from
Speaker 1: those two women came like ten years after the fact. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why West, What did it take him so long to
Speaker 1: remember this? I don't know if it took him so long,
Speaker 1: they'll remember it. If they didn't come for I don't
Speaker 1: know what. And it may have been in conjunction with
Speaker 1: because that's about the time and I can't remember exactly
Speaker 1: when they did them search for the anomalies penetrating gradar,
Speaker 1: but it could have been the It was similar, It
Speaker 1: was close to that. As soon as they started saying,
Speaker 1: you know, they might be in the concrete that these
Speaker 1: women were like, oh, actually that would that's weird. So
Speaker 1: there would therefore have The names of these two men
Speaker 1: are correct, I presume, but I've never seen them released anywhere.
Speaker 1: The names. I am really intrigued, and I agree with
Speaker 1: both of you that just take this core sample, see
Speaker 1: what the hell is down there. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I've worked on enough construction sites to know that holes
Speaker 1: in the ground because ground penetrating radar is not perfect.
Speaker 1: It's not what you see on the TV. Doesn't give
Speaker 1: you this crystal clear image. It's just this weird black
Speaker 1: and white lines thing. I mean, there's nothing great about it.
Speaker 1: And I worked on enough construction sites where the dumb
Speaker 1: guy with the shovel or the baco kept digging more
Speaker 1: than he needed to and the boss yelled at i mean,
Speaker 1: told him to stop, and so he smoothed it out
Speaker 1: and then they poured stuff on top of it. It
Speaker 1: could be as simple as that. It could They're kind
Speaker 1: of suspiciously laid out for it to be that, But
Speaker 1: it could be that. I'm not willing to rule anything else.
Speaker 1: Well that's what I'm saying. Like the guy with the backo,
Speaker 1: he takes a grab, he takes another grab, he's goofing around. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I've been in site where the guy in charge
Speaker 1: who shouldn't have been in charge, Like, hey, he would
Speaker 1: have run a little backo. It's really fun. And then
Speaker 1: I watched some idiot like whales somebody's house with a bucket.
Speaker 1: That reminds me of a story. Yeah, it's the thing
Speaker 1: that was that you know it doesn't isn't necessarily corpses.
Speaker 1: But we are looking for three bodies. There are three
Speaker 1: anomalies which are all side by side down there. All
Speaker 1: we know is that the plane of this is the
Speaker 1: plane of the soil, the profile, the horizons have been disturbed.
Speaker 1: They're at the same compaction. That's what it's. It's figuring out, yea,
Speaker 1: and they're different. It would mean prey dug worth checking out,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it just seems like just do it
Speaker 1: easier anyway. And as my last thought, Cox seems like
Speaker 1: a cocky enough kind of dude that if there were
Speaker 1: some way to dispose of somebody's in some way that
Speaker 1: would be like his name, if he did it, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't It wouldn't shock me to find out that he
Speaker 1: managed to somehow bury them in a construction site next
Speaker 1: to the Cox Hospital, just because he was kind of
Speaker 1: a jerk like that. Yeah, it would be kind of
Speaker 1: like an in your face kind of thing. Yeah, remember me,
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, that's this I don't have I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't. It's not solved. I have nothing else, but oh,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that they're on Vesuvius two five seven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the only happy. Those are your happy places that
Speaker 1: you go there. They were abducted by cute, cuddly kitten
Speaker 1: aliens and spend their days petting kittens and feeding them.
Speaker 1: Happy kitten. That's really the only way to go with this.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean it's
Speaker 1: possible they're alive. I mean maybe they were sold into slavery.
Speaker 1: Another happy way to go. That's and I don't that
Speaker 1: seems strange because people getting sold into slavery are usually
Speaker 1: very young and individuals who are very They are in
Speaker 1: that really risky lifestyle and they're very vulnerable. Three adult women. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like, oh we got a cash drop
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, No, I wasn't being too serious there, Okay,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. I don't think they were sold in slavery.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, no signs of a struggle,
Speaker 1: nothing really out of the ordinary. There shouldn't have been
Speaker 1: a struggle. And that's one one good thing about the
Speaker 1: whole contamination of the house is that if the guy
Speaker 1: just basically walks in with a gun or guys walks in,
Speaker 1: says you're coming with us, and leads them out again,
Speaker 1: that really would have been much of any way anything
Speaker 1: in the world in terms of evidence anyway. Yeah yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and you know they're the neighbors aren't particularly far away,
Speaker 1: and they didn't hear any sign any struggles or anything
Speaker 1: like that, so that I mean, at least we know
Speaker 1: nobody cleaned that up. Yeah. Yeah, So there you go.
Speaker 1: There's a happy mystery. You guys asked for this one,
Speaker 1: You've got more, are really happy, all of them. Like
Speaker 1: I am going to have to spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time meditating on our walls because this is going to
Speaker 1: be a fun month. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: anything else to add cool, Well, if you want to
Speaker 1: read some of the links that we used to research,
Speaker 1: or you want to download the episode, or you already
Speaker 1: know where to download it, you don't need that, awesome, Um,
Speaker 1: you can go ahead and check out our website. That
Speaker 1: website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. We're on iTunes,
Speaker 1: as you know, leave us a comment, ratings, subscribe, stream
Speaker 1: us anywhere, leave us comments there. I guess too, that's
Speaker 1: a thing, right cool. We're on social media. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at Thinking Sideways. We've got Facebook,
Speaker 1: the group and the page, and we have a subreddit. Um,
Speaker 1: forget about that thing. Yeah, I know, I know you do.
Speaker 1: Everybody does. It's really really, it's very sad. You can
Speaker 1: send us an email if you have something to add
Speaker 1: or suggestions, or I just want to say, hey, just
Speaker 1: want to tell us how awesome we are. Yep. That
Speaker 1: email addresses Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com, and
Speaker 1: we're on Patreon. If you feel like uh supporting the show,
Speaker 1: you should head over to Patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways.
Speaker 1: Um and thanks. That having been said, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get out of here with three of us are going
Speaker 1: to disappear. How many weeks we're in the month of
Speaker 1: October four plus? I just realized we screwed up. There
Speaker 1: are five Thursdays in this month, alright, five episodes, five
Speaker 1: episodes of Most Wanted. That's fine, Bye everybody, By guys,