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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a dry

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Speaker 1: Hammond Cheese croissant. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations

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Speaker 1: of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash

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Speaker 1: thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I

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Speaker 1: don't I'm not going to do it. You never know

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Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Welcome to episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am Devin, joined as always by Joe and Steve,

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Speaker 1: who's being a little but today he's some more. I

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Speaker 1: promised not to sabotage you anymore. We are ten minutes

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Speaker 1: into recording already and we haven't recorded anything. This is

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Speaker 1: so you're going to tell them about our So we're special. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're in the month of October now, welcome. And

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Speaker 1: historically what we do is we kind of pick a

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Speaker 1: theme for the month of October because I don't know, Halloween,

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Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries, it makes sense. This year we decided to

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Speaker 1: Last year we did murders really really. This year we

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Speaker 1: decided to do what we're calling Thinking Sideways is Most Wanted,

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Speaker 1: where we actually did a poll for all of our

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Speaker 1: social media users and they all voted. Um, we made

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Speaker 1: a list of the fifteen most something like that, some

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Speaker 1: number of the most requested unsolved mysteries that we get,

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Speaker 1: and then we had people vote on the ones that

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Speaker 1: they wanted the most. So we've taken the top I

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Speaker 1: think five, five or six something. That depends on exactly

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Speaker 1: how it susses out. We are still negotiating how long

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Speaker 1: some of them are going to be. Don't don't bother

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Speaker 1: to go find the Lincoln vote, guys. Voting is already

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Speaker 1: closely comes out. Yeah, but we're going to do the

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Speaker 1: fourth runner up today and then you know, Halloween Special

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Speaker 1: will be the first most requested, most voted one twill indeed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So stay tuned. It's going to be fun series. This

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Speaker 1: is our fourth runner up and today we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the Springfield three. Indeed. Ready, Okay, I'm ready.

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Speaker 1: On June six, Susie Streeter and Stacy McCall were celebrating

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Speaker 1: their high school graduation. One of them was eighteen, the

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Speaker 1: other was nineteen. The school had offered a non drinking

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Speaker 1: grad night. Did you guys have that? We did too? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where they well you're probably too old a underage, k Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was no such thing as underage drinking at that point.

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Speaker 1: It um. So if you're unfamiliar with this concept, basically

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Speaker 1: what it is is it's like a big old party

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Speaker 1: night Ours was casino themed. We did it at a

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Speaker 1: water park, but they didn't they wouldn't tell you where

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Speaker 1: it was. They just it was just a surprise. The

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Speaker 1: school put it on um for us. At least they didn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't tell us where we were going. They just

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Speaker 1: said pack a swimsuit and a change of clothes and

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Speaker 1: a couple of the things, and you write it in

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Speaker 1: a you know, in a bag, and you hand your

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Speaker 1: bag over and they take you to the place and

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Speaker 1: you're locked in all night. Shut in. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: shut in basically, and it's a fun party as long

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Speaker 1: as you're lame like me and didn't drink in high

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Speaker 1: school and like thought that hanging out was really fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It was. It was was just hanging

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Speaker 1: out in the gymnasium. Yeah that sounds awful. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: the local water park that you guys know, the indoor

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Speaker 1: water park very close to here. Um, And they also

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Speaker 1: set up a bunch of casino tables and they had

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Speaker 1: like a mechanical bowl and it was really fun, but

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Speaker 1: also like there was yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the story

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Speaker 1: not about that. The story is about the fact that

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Speaker 1: Susie and Stacy decided that sounds lame, we don't want

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Speaker 1: to do the shut in thing, because I think that

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Speaker 1: was going to be in their jam, wasn't I think

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Speaker 1: it was. It sounded like it was going to be

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Speaker 1: a lame one, like like Steve's yeah we grat I

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Speaker 1: graduated in this right around the same time as these two.

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Speaker 1: So the shut ins were kind of a new idea,

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Speaker 1: but nobody figure out how to make an enticing yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So they and a group of friends, it wasn't just

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Speaker 1: these two girls decided they would not do the shut

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Speaker 1: in and they would do their own party. And there

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Speaker 1: were a series of parties involving alcohol that were half

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Speaker 1: high school graduation. Of course there is of course. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they decided water park theme apparently, So this group of

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Speaker 1: friends decided that on Sunday, which was the next day,

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Speaker 1: the seventh, they would all go to the water a

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Speaker 1: water park that was kind of close, but it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a longer drive, like a half hour drive

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Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, but they were Their plan was they

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Speaker 1: were going to drive there and to a motel that

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Speaker 1: was close to the water park that night. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the sixth and stay there. The whole group was going

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Speaker 1: to do that and then they would just go to

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Speaker 1: the water park the next morning. That was the plan,

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Speaker 1: but the parents weren't too enthusiast. Yeah, well, as you

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Speaker 1: can imagine, right, you're underage, it's late, you've been celebrating

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Speaker 1: with drinks, whether we told you you could or not,

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Speaker 1: and now you're gonna get into a bunch of cars

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Speaker 1: and drive on the freeway. Yeah. And you know, none

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Speaker 1: of I've listened to a fair number of interviews with

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Speaker 1: parents that were involved in this whole situation, and none

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Speaker 1: of them seemed to you know, they all kind of

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Speaker 1: seemed to be understanding and okay with the fact that

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Speaker 1: the kids were going to drink, and really their their

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Speaker 1: concern was like, hey, maybe don't go drive for a

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Speaker 1: long time after you've been drinking, not like, hey, don't drink.

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Speaker 1: So they decided instead of going to the hotel, they

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Speaker 1: would stay with their friend Janelle, who was also a

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Speaker 1: part of this party. She was a senior. She was

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Speaker 1: also a senior. Yeah, so they got to her house

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Speaker 1: after one of the parties. But it turned out I

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Speaker 1: don't know why Janelle didn't know this, but apparently she didn't.

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Speaker 1: But it turned out that all of her extended family

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Speaker 1: was staying for the graduation. They were all from some

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Speaker 1: of the another yeah, so they were visiting, so they

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Speaker 1: were all staying there. So the house was pretty full,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the girls could have just slept on

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Speaker 1: the floor, but Susie's mom lived pretty close by and

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Speaker 1: she was a she was a single mom, so it

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Speaker 1: was just her at the house, and you know, there

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Speaker 1: was plenty of rooms. So Susie said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: Stacy and I are going to go. We're going to

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Speaker 1: drive back to my mom's house and we're gonna stay

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Speaker 1: there tonight. And her mom's name was Cheryl, and her

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Speaker 1: mom's name was Cheryl. So we've got Susie, Stacy, and Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: This is You've got to kind of keep these straight, guys,

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Speaker 1: because it is if you don't, if you're not reading

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Speaker 1: it constantly, it will get a little confusing. Because we've

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Speaker 1: got so it's it's Susie Streeter and her mom Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: and then the other girl is Stacy Call and she's

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Speaker 1: the friend. There's gonna be a lot of name dropping.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to try and lay some I

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Speaker 1: work for folk because I read two or three articles

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Speaker 1: and then went, wait, what which one And especially when

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Speaker 1: you get with the with the daughters, it was the

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Speaker 1: daughter and the friend. I can they all have different

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Speaker 1: last names? Yeah? That was the other part. Daughters in

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Speaker 1: this story don't have the same last name, which makes

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Speaker 1: it tough. Yeah, although SUSY's brother does have the same

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Speaker 1: last name as herr. Yeah, that was the only consistent

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Speaker 1: was the only one. So so I'm sorry I interrupted.

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Speaker 1: So they're they're they're going to Cheryl's house. So they're

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Speaker 1: going to Cheryl's house. Yeah, uh, And they drive separately.

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Speaker 1: They have both have their cars wherever they were, so

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Speaker 1: they decided to drive separately over to Cheryl's house. And

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Speaker 1: they called Cheryl out about like ten thirty that night

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, we actually decided we're going to come

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Speaker 1: back there after we're done partying. Okay, but they continued

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Speaker 1: to be out partying for a while after that. You

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Speaker 1: look confused. Well, no, what I'm what, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: reconcile and maybe you can help me get a beat

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Speaker 1: on this is I know that Stacy called her mom

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Speaker 1: and told her mom that she was going to be

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Speaker 1: staying at what's the Janelle's house, so she hadn't she

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Speaker 1: didn't know about this change of plans. And so I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to figure out, did they all plan to

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Speaker 1: do that and she just didn't call her mom or

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Speaker 1: do you have a good sense of it? I think

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was a plan necessarily, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I don't know. I think it just happened,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and the reading that I saw it

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Speaker 1: did say that Susie called her mom to discuss the plans,

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Speaker 1: although I guess now that I think about it, didn't

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Speaker 1: clarify what plans they were talking about. So it could

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Speaker 1: have been the change of plans from the motel to

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Speaker 1: Jannelle's house, and that she never they just showed up

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Speaker 1: at Cheryl's house. At the teenage girls and the teenagers,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say girls are teenagers, they're they're prone to

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Speaker 1: just erratically changing play and and everybody please do keep

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Speaker 1: in mind this is pre cell phone. Yeah, two, So

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Speaker 1: they weren't gonna just text mom and be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're coming over now. Act really just kidding. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't send her an email because it's you know, four

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Speaker 1: K modem or whatever. They were. Yeah, and they actually

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Speaker 1: and the girls didn't arrive at Cheryl's house until like

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Speaker 1: to fifteen is what they guess, Am. So I would

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Speaker 1: suspect that the plans kind of change. Everyone is asleep

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Speaker 1: at Janelle's house and they didn't want to wake anybody

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Speaker 1: up using the phone, so they just headed over there.

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Speaker 1: But they drove separate cars. Cheryl had been home all evening.

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Speaker 1: She was reportedly refinishing a dresser. That's according to a friend.

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Speaker 1: She spoke to a friend on the phone at like

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Speaker 1: eleven fifteen PM who said she was talking about the

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Speaker 1: project she was working on, which was refinishing a dresser.

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Speaker 1: And that's like the last confirmed anything we know about

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Speaker 1: them at all. All three three, all three not a

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Speaker 1: clue left behind. No. Essentially, sometime between two fifteen am

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Speaker 1: and eight am, these three women just vanished, basically, I

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Speaker 1: mean really the evaporated. Yeah, for for all anybody can tell,

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Speaker 1: they were just raptured clothes and all. Seriously, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like that's they just disappeared. So when when the raptor comes,

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Speaker 1: you don't get to take your purse with you, I

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Speaker 1: don't think so. Yeah, So Janelle, when Stacy and Susie

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Speaker 1: left Janelle's house, she said, all right, you know what,

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Speaker 1: just call me in the morning, like eight am. Like

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Speaker 1: let's wake up at eight um. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: the water park opened at like nine or something. So

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, you know what, call me at eight um.

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Speaker 1: We'll figure out who's driving all of that stuff and

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Speaker 1: then we'll just go from there. So she was expecting

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Speaker 1: to hear from them at eight am sometime in the morning.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're teenage kids. They sleep in. They

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Speaker 1: did until two in the morning. Yeah, I don't if

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Speaker 1: I'm up till two in the morning, I don't get

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Speaker 1: a bit eight am. But I think I did when

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Speaker 1: I was eighteen, especially if I was excited about something. Okay. Yeah, Anyway,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't hear from them, and she just calls the house,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was reported to be pretty close

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Speaker 1: to eight you know. She seemed she was kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, ready to go and a little annoyed that

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Speaker 1: they hadn't called her yet. So she called them, and

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Speaker 1: she called a couple of times and there was no answer,

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Speaker 1: and so she called her boyfriend to come pick her

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Speaker 1: up um and drive her over to Cheryl's house. When

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Speaker 1: they got there, all three of the cars because Susie

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Speaker 1: had her own car, Stacy had her own car, and

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Speaker 1: then Cheryl had our car. Um. All three of the

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Speaker 1: cars were parked outside when they walked onto the porch

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Speaker 1: and they noticed there was broken glass on the porch.

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Speaker 1: And now said that she noticed that the dome light

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Speaker 1: on the porch, the globe glass globe, Yeah, that it

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Speaker 1: was broken, Yeah, it was. It was it. I could

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Speaker 1: never because you see the recreations and I've seen the

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Speaker 1: picture of the house. It's actually a globe though, right.

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Speaker 1: I know that sounds dumb to ask, but the domes

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Speaker 1: or as we refer to him, the boob lights are

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Speaker 1: always in the actual ceiling. So that makes a difference

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Speaker 1: in terms of an actual globe. Okay, they know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they make the as you so absolutely put

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Speaker 1: a boob lights as porch lights usually yeah. Much, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's too much wiring to have. I don't know

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Speaker 1: I'm making that up. Nobody pleased. Yeah, we'll survey. So Janelle,

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Speaker 1: being a good friend and neighbor, thinks, oh that's not good.

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Speaker 1: I'll sweep that up. I think her boyfriend swept it up.

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Speaker 1: I think her boyfriend did, but one of the two

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Speaker 1: of them swept up. Yeah, they swept at the glass

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Speaker 1: and threw in the trash, which is is really nice. Um,

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Speaker 1: and later on the police were helpless to that in

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Speaker 1: a second. So it was nice of them. And they

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Speaker 1: just figured, oh, well, the girls are still asleep. They

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Speaker 1: knocked or you know, Janelle and her boyfriend knocked a

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Speaker 1: couple of times and they didn't hear response, and they figured, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: they're just still asleep. Better going and you know, wake

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Speaker 1: him up. And the door was unlocked. It was closed,

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Speaker 1: but it was unlocked, and they went in and genuinely

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Speaker 1: didn't think anything was wrong. Um, you know, all of

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Speaker 1: their stuff was there, their purses, all three of the

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Speaker 1: women had purses there, and then um, Susie and Cheryl

242
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Speaker 1: both were smokers, and they both of their packs of

243
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Speaker 1: cigarettes were there, and car keys everything. Uh, the dog

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Speaker 1: named Cinnamon, which was reportedly agitated but not I mean,

245
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Speaker 1: not harmed or anything and probably just hungry. Yeah, probably,

246
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Speaker 1: So they went in and um, Janelle reported that it

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Speaker 1: looked like um, both the beds, Susie and Cheryl's beds

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Speaker 1: had been slept. In course, that doesn't necessarily mean anything,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people that's true. Yeah, so that

250
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Speaker 1: doesn't really mean a whole lot um. But she didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what was going on, so she just started

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Speaker 1: to leave the house. They were like, all right, I

253
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Speaker 1: guess they just went to the water park without us,

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Speaker 1: without any of their stuff. Um. And right as Janelle

255
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Speaker 1: was leaving, the phone rang and she answered it because

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Speaker 1: I guess she thought maybe. I don't know why she answered,

257
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Speaker 1: so would you answer somebody else's phone in their house,

258
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Speaker 1: I don't know if they're not home, not actually, because

259
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Speaker 1: I mean she's wondering what happened, and she's thinking maybe

260
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Speaker 1: somebody's maybe it's Susie calling. Well, I don't know why

261
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Speaker 1: Susie would call, because she wouldn't expect Janelle to be there.

262
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Speaker 1: But you know, maybe it was like a brother saying like,

263
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Speaker 1: you know, because she did have a brother, you know,

264
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Speaker 1: maybe it was the brother saying like, oh I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to check. Oh yeah, and they were going to

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Speaker 1: do this thing. You know, I get Okay, I don't

267
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Speaker 1: know it is. I agree, it's weird to me too,

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Speaker 1: but that's what happened. She answered the phone and on

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Speaker 1: the other end was a male voice just saying lud

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Speaker 1: pervy comments to her, And so she hung up the

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Speaker 1: phone and it rang again and it was the same

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Speaker 1: person saying the same sort of stuff. You know, the caller,

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Speaker 1: I d has eliminated that one thing from our society

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Speaker 1: of nothing else. Star star whatever it is are six

275
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 1: nine is the like re dial. But yeah, there's the

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Speaker 1: one to block your number. But they're good enough and

277
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Speaker 1: picking those things up. That almost never happens anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty great. I was getting all the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was awful. No, so Janelle and her boyfriend laughed

280
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Speaker 1: after the two weird creepy pervy calls. They didn't feed

281
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Speaker 1: the dog, I don't. She didn't say anything about feeding

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Speaker 1: the dog. She also didn't report them missing because yeah,

283
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Speaker 1: she thought were Yeah, I mean, I guess on the

284
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Speaker 1: one hand, right, but I would like I probably would

285
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Speaker 1: have like told my mom or somebody. I would have

286
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Speaker 1: told somebody, Oh, yeah, it was weird. They weren't there.

287
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Speaker 1: They're like those mean girls. They left, but like it

288
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: was weird. Their cars and their purses were there, So

289
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Speaker 1: like she may very well have done that maybe and

290
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Speaker 1: whoever she said it to just didn't you know. I mean,

291
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Speaker 1: this is a very innocuous thing. I went over to

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Speaker 1: somebody's house. They weren't there, like they told me they

293
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Speaker 1: were gonna be. How familiar to this? Yeah, it happens

294
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Speaker 1: all the time, I guess, like for me, and probably

295
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,479
Speaker 1: it's because I come from this like unsolved mystery headspace.

296
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 1: But like the glass was broken, the door was unlocked,

297
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: the dog was mad, their stuff was all there, they weren't.

298
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Speaker 1: I would be like, Wow, there's lots of weird little

299
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Speaker 1: red flags here. Maybe you know you're from the cell

300
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 1: phone generation where you're in contact all the time. I

301
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 1: think Joe might be in the same boat. I've gone

302
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 1: over to people's house pretty cell phone. I was supposed

303
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 1: to meet him at two o'clock or whatever. Knock on

304
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Speaker 1: the door and they're not there, And you sit in

305
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 1: your car and you wait for five minutes. Then you

306
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 1: wander around the house and you don't go into the

307
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Speaker 1: house and see that all their stuff is there though, no, no,

308
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 1: see that's but that's the thing is, I would never

309
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,840
Speaker 1: have just wandered unless it was a house that I

310
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Speaker 1: went into on a regular basis, And maybe Janelle did maybe, yeah,

311
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Speaker 1: she might have been very familiar with the mom and yeah, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess that brings up a bit of a point um,

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Speaker 1: the fact that their cigarettes were there. Cheryl's son, Slash,

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Speaker 1: Susie's brother, describes his mom as the kind of chain

315
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Speaker 1: smoker who wouldn't leave a pack in a room when

316
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Speaker 1: she left the room. She always had him with her. Yeah,

317
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 1: so if Janelle knew, she might not have known that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, maybe i'd be hard to not know.

319
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Speaker 1: Count mom ever were such a that's true, that's true. Yeah, yeah,

320
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Speaker 1: So okay, after this, Janelle and her boyfriend go to

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Speaker 1: the water park. The girls aren't there, but I guess

322
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Speaker 1: she doesn't think anything of it. And Stacy McCall's mom

323
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Speaker 1: was expecting a call from her daughter in the morning,

324
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Speaker 1: and she knew that she was supposed to be a

325
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Speaker 1: Janelle's house, so she called Janelle's house and Janelle's sister

326
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Speaker 1: answered and said, oh no, no, they stayed at Susie's

327
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Speaker 1: house last night, and she was kind of annoyed, but

328
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 1: she believe she was going to buy like a wedding

329
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,679
Speaker 1: dress or something with her other daughter. There was some

330
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,080
Speaker 1: big appointment that she had to keep. So she thought,

331
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Speaker 1: all right, well, I don't know the phone number over there,

332
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Speaker 1: so I'll just swing by after. Did she know where

333
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: they actually lived? She I think she got the address

334
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 1: from Janelle Jane's sister because they knew she didn't have

335
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 1: the phone number because they just recently moved into that house.

336
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 1: She got the she got the address somewhere somehow because

337
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 1: she later went by the house. This was like eight

338
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: or nine. No, no, no no, I'm sorry. This was more

339
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 1: than twelve hours after they had left. It was in

340
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: the afternoon, and they don't know what time, to be honest.

341
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 1: So she went to the house and she also found

342
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 1: the door to be unlocked, and also found all the

343
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 1: cars there. And she says that when she went in,

344
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 1: the TV was turned on to like fuzzy white noise. Yeah,

345
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: just like white noise. And she said that she had

346
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 1: a really weird, eerie feeling about the whole situation. She

347
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 1: also saw that there were messages on the message machine.

348
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: So she yeah, although at this point, like, if you

349
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: haven't heard from your daughter in a really, really, really

350
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: long time, that's a long time to not hear from

351
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: your daughter after a night of drinking, I think, But

352
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: so she listens to the messages, and I think there

353
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: was just the one. There was several, but I don't

354
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: I don't know that we have an exact number because

355
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: she didn't remember. She didn't remember, she didn't remember what

356
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: the content of the messages was. She didn't There was

357
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: one message that she remembered being really really suspicious. It

358
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: was a male voice who was saying, I think things again. Probably,

359
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 1: she said she didn't remember, and also, oops, she deleted

360
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: the message. Oops. So the cops just to like head

361
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,640
Speaker 1: all of your screaming nightmare sounds off. The cops are

362
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 1: very sure that that was probably a pretty important clue.

363
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: It could have been. Any clue that you lose is

364
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 1: important because if it's not there anymore, you spend so

365
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: many man hours trying to change sit down. So regardless

366
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: of if it actually was worth a damn, it was important.

367
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: It's it kind of just been just some some pranks

368
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 1: there again, some jerk Stacy. Stacy McCall's mom was worried,

369
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: so she decided to go to the the police. She hadn't

370
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: heard from her daughter. She felt really weird in the house.

371
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: She heard a weird message, so she went to the

372
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: police and reported the missing, and the police of later

373
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: since revealed kind of another big problem with this case

374
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 1: is that apparently anywhere between ten and twenty people came

375
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 1: to the house looking for Cheryl and Stacy and Susie

376
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: and let themselves in and walked around contaminated, the contaminated

377
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,479
Speaker 1: the whole thing. It's it's little things like um in

378
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: Susie's room, apparently the blinds the not the blinds, the

379
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: curtains were open a little bit like somebody was peeking out,

380
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: which I think would be a very interesting clue if

381
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: we could know that Stacy had done it, or Susie

382
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, see I'm doing it already. If we knew that,

383
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 1: if we knew that one of the three women had

384
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: done that, it would be interesting to know because it

385
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 1: would at least mean that, oh, there was something that

386
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: had happened outside the house. But the other hard part

387
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: here is that there's the dog. Yeah, it could have been.

388
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: The sense that I had was that it was more

389
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: than just a dog, like shoving his face into the

390
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 1: you know, it parted a little at the top. Oh see,

391
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 1: I got that when when I heard the way it

392
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 1: was described, or read the way it was described, I

393
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: got the idea that it was, you know, maybe a slit.

394
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: It was about a foot or so tall. Interesting and

395
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: just a little bit open, because to me that insinuates

396
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: peaking when you're barely pushing them open so you can

397
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: see out, but nobody realizes you're doing it, which is

398
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: how cats and dogs leave curtains when they're done watching outside.

399
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: That's fair. I hadn't thought of that. It could just

400
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: be a case of sloppy curtain clothing, which is rampant

401
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 1: in this country. Yeah, really, it's a problem. Also as Joeman,

402
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: and the broken glass would have probably been a pretty

403
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: important clue, you know, like well a brake pattern, was

404
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: the bull broken as well? You know, so it's little

405
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: things like that that would have been probably how was

406
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 1: the grass glass broken? Was it like you know, well,

407
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you can't tell things like that based

408
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: on how big the pieces are. Did it look like

409
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: and did it look like somebody had like whacked it

410
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 1: with a bat or like hit it up or like

411
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 1: or did it look like it just finally came loose,

412
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: because they do that worthless, and those things are known

413
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: to occasionally just drop to the ground. So that would

414
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: have been a pretty interesting clue to have, but we

415
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: don't have it. So so the police not fish the

416
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: fragments out of the garbage. I guess not. I guess

417
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: by that time they work one. So then I never

418
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: right over on Sunday morning, huh, at like eight o'clock

419
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: in the morning, and the cops must have shown up

420
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: sometime Monday morning. So because they didn't go right away,

421
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: they did they went over pretty quick and left a

422
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: note on the door that was like, hey, Cheryl, when

423
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: you get home, can you let us know. Yeah, And

424
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: they didn't hear anything for another day and they were like, alright, fine,

425
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: I guess we'll go. So it's very possible that Monday

426
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: was trash day and her garbage was already out, or

427
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: maybe the Janelle's boyfriend just threw it in that and

428
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, wheeled it out there. Or maybe he didn't

429
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: even throw it in a trash can. Maybe he just

430
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: threw it in the street. I mean, you know, that

431
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: is sadly quite possible. Yeah, I mean it's totally possible

432
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: that he was. He was like, oh, yeah, i'll clean

433
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: this up, no problem. Janelle. Okay, huh, what's going on? Yeah?

434
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: What were you doing in here? Now? Yeah? I'm gonna

435
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: pause here to mention before we move into the theories situation,

436
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: that there have been more than five thousand tips regarding

437
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: this case, and I am just going to briefly mention

438
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: two of them because I think they're interesting and important.

439
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: The first tip is that a server at one of

440
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: Cheryl's favorite restaurants, I think it's called George's Steakhouse in

441
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: Springfield said that the women came in sometime between one

442
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: and three am, and was this all three women or yes,

443
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: it was all three women. They all arrived together and

444
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: departed together, and she said that Susie seemed to be

445
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: really drunk and upset about something and Cheryl was trying

446
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: to calm her down the whole time. But even that

447
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 1: was a regular hang out of hers of Cheryl's. Yeah,

448
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: the police seemed to discount this a little bit. They say,

449
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: you know, it's really popular and it was really busy,

450
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 1: so it's possible she was mistaken it for a different night,

451
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: which is fair. I mean, you know, if they could

452
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: have gone there Friday night instead to celebrate graduation and

453
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: that it just got a little mixed up and it's

454
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 1: not on you know, at eighteen or nineteen when you're

455
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: drunk and you know, emotional times of graduation are happening.

456
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: The other thing is witness testimony is not all that reliable,

457
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: as we talked about. Have you guys, I just watched

458
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: the other day. Have you seen that movie Horns with

459
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: um yeah, Daniel Daniel Redcliffe. I just watched that the

460
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: other day. And that guy has been doing some weird

461
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: movies and he's been doing a good job in him

462
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: because I'm sure that after eight Harry Potter films he

463
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: wants to do anything not normal. But there's a there's

464
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: a scene where somebody is making a claim and it

465
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: turns out there making this claim because they want to

466
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: be the star in front and center and there's but

467
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: people do that weird crap, you know. Oh well I

468
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: want to be I want to be remembered forever. I

469
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: want to help. Yeah, and yeah people, it is the

470
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: attention thing. Yeah. Another tip is that a woman said

471
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: that she saw a woman matching Susie's description driving an

472
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: early modeled Dodge Van that was described as either moss

473
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: or Celery Green, depending on where you read or hear

474
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: about it. The witness that that Susie looked like she

475
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: had been crying heavily and was turning the van around

476
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: that she was driving, and uh said that a she

477
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: heard a male voice say, don't do anything stupid as

478
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: Susie was turning the van around. Because of this tip,

479
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: the police got a van that matched to the description.

480
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: It was the same year, make and model and painted

481
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: it the color that was described and put it out

482
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: in front of the police station with the sign that

483
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: was like, hey, if you see a van like this,

484
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: let us know of it. I love this fan. Do

485
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: you know why I love this fan? Because it looks

486
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: like the Scooby Doo Gang van kind of. It's kind

487
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: of the right color, it's kind of the right make

488
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: and model. It's really funny. But how do you think

489
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: I think of Scooby Doo and Gang. No, but I

490
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: really it's it's just I love whenever I can find

491
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: a Scooby Doo reference to the story. You know the

492
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: thing out that van. The only place I ever saw

493
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: pictures of it was on Disappeared, that episode that they

494
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: did on this they they're a picture of it is

495
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: attached to all three of the Women's Charlie Project page. Okay,

496
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: so it's it's accepted more than just the disappeared, because

497
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: I I would have a problem if it was just

498
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: the disappeared. Yeah, yeah, I have lots of problems with disappeared.

499
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we want me to get

500
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: on that shoapbox, I think gonna be long enough at this. Yeah, yeah,

501
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: but no, I agreed. I did see it places. Yeah,

502
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: that was my thing. I was like foote But I

503
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: don't know for sure. Yeah, it could have been recreation.

504
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: Who knows. They recreate dramatic recreation, not just to recreate.

505
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: The picture of that van um is on the Charlie

506
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: Project website, So I I'm going to accept it as

507
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: a real thing. Okay, so that a dramatic vein. Yeah,

508
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: they ever after they got this van, they ever show

509
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: it to their witness and say, hey, just look like

510
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: actually yeah they it better still have a van lineup. No,

511
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: that's why they matched the color was because they said

512
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: it was this the color you were describing, And she said, yeah,

513
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: it was the color um. But so she actually didn't

514
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: know that this like man hunt was happening for a

515
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: few days. Was this daytime, by the way, or nighttime?

516
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: It was morning? But I thought she she didn't report

517
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: this for week well, that was it. She didn't know

518
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: it was happening, so she didn't report it. I think

519
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: it was like a week and a half after something

520
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: that um, and her story was um, I guess corroborated

521
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: kind of by a newspaper boy who was delivering. So

522
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: it was an it was in the early morning, Um,

523
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: he was delivering what he said, the van was brown. Um.

524
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: But that gives us a bit of a time frame

525
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: as well, that it was kind of earlier in the morning,

526
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: but it was light out. It wasn't It's June, so

527
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: it's not like yeah. And then a man later told

528
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: authorities that he had seen a van matching the description

529
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: that we've just talked about that was being driven by

530
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: a blonde woman. Well it was. It was parked in

531
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: a grocery parking lot. Um. But the woman behind the

532
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: wheel was a blonde woman. And he wrote down the

533
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: license plate number because for some reason he thought it

534
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: was suspicious. This was before he knew that it was

535
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: tied up and missed disappearance. But he tossed the paper

536
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: he wrote the license plate number down before he contacted

537
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: the police. And then he contacted the police, and then

538
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: the police said all right, well, we're going to hypnotize

539
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: you then to find out what the license plate number was,

540
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: and he was only able to recall three of the digits,

541
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: the first three digits of the license plate. So those

542
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: are some interesting, incredible tips. Why in the hell do

543
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: they hypnotize people don't know? It's just suggestions. I know

544
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: it's bad. It actually can introduce more unreliable Oh yeah,

545
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: every time it's like, what was it the Catty murders?

546
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: When they hypnotize that one kid, All this stuff comes out.

547
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: But what was the question you asked? Like, we never

548
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: get to hear what the questions were specifically, it's just

549
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: what the answers were because they're leading you. I don't

550
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: know if you guys have done it. I've gone to

551
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: a hypnotist before and they are hugely leading. You didn't

552
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: have managed to hypnotize me. Maybe that's because he sucked

553
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: at that's why his questions were so leading. I don't know.

554
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: But well, you're on a soapbox already again. It's okay,

555
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: let's talk about theories. Um, and I just want to

556
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: quickly do a little bit of a disclaimer. Some of

557
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: the people we're going to talk about did some pretty

558
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: really horrible, and we're going to talk about it, not

559
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: graphic detail. But some of our listeners are like under fifteen,

560
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: so like maybe closer ears. Yeah, most of ours. Most

561
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: of our listeners are pretty tough. Yeah, most of them.

562
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: I just don't want you to you old girls nightmarage.

563
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: I still feel bad about that. Yeah, yeah, I mean too.

564
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: And there are literally no happy theories here. There's no

565
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: run away and join the There's no one, I don't think,

566
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: on this planet who believes that something good happened to

567
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: these women. Extremely unlikely. Yeah, with that being said, let's

568
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: go ahead and start into the theories. The brother our

569
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: first suspect. Yeah, yeah, that brother. Yeah, we're doing We're

570
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: doing suspects as theories. I guess I don't think he

571
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: was ever really a suspect. That was I think he

572
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: was a person of interest and as soon as they

573
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: actually interviewed him, they decided or just kidding, he did

574
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: have a drinking problem, But then again, he would he drank.

575
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: I would say, I would say that he had a

576
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: drinking problem in that he got really angry when he

577
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: drank as much as he drank, So I would qualify

578
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: that as a drinking problem versus somebody who drinks a lot,

579
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: and it's still like you can hang out with him

580
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: and that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so that and that's

581
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 1: a sad thing about it, is that that guy's kind

582
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: of a rift in the family. Yeah, it did. And

583
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: he had recently gotten into a fight with his mother

584
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: and sister. His sister used to his sister used to

585
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: live with him, Um, and he got really angry and

586
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: drunk one night and they got in a huge fight,

587
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: and so she left and um, Susie and Cheryl had

588
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: decided at that point that they would just no longer

589
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: be in contact cut him off. Yeah, they were cutting

590
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: him off basically. He's obviously I don't think he's real,

591
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: like a real suspect at all. I think they looked

592
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: into him because he was a male who was connected

593
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: to the story, and he was an easy person to

594
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, say, well it wasn't that person and people

595
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: you look at first family and you know and stuff

596
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: like that, family, ex boyfriends, ex girlfriends. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

597
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: So I saw an interview with him and yeah, he

598
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: didn't do it. No, I don't think so it didn't. No.

599
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: Next is the mafia. Apparently there are a lot of

600
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: local rumors. I couldn't find anything to robberate anything, except

601
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: for a bunch of people on either Reddit or web

602
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: sleuth saying, well, I'm a local and I heard this.

603
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: Apparently Sheryl's sister was involved in the mafia, and this

604
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: was a mafia hit to hurt the sister. I don't Yeah,

605
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: so I don't know. I don't think so, because unless

606
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: the mafia's changed that they used to have kind of

607
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: a code of a code of ethics about stuff like this,

608
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: about leaving leaving the family out of things. Yeah, especially

609
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,719
Speaker 1: female members of family members. And wait, what was Cheryl's

610
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: last name? Love it? Well know her maiden name was.

611
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: It's not a very Italian sound. No, that's true, I

612
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: don't remember you. That's why I'm asking it is either

613
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: because you never see it used. But I don't know

614
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: that you're required to be to be Italian to be

615
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: in the mob, though, No you're not. But I would

616
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: think that to be somebody to be in a place

617
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: where we're gonna whack your family, let will of hit,

618
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: You've got to be really deep in the family and

619
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: probably grew up in it. Yeah. Probably. I didn't get

620
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 1: that impression at all from this single mom who's a hairdresser. Yeah,

621
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: she was a hairdresser. By the way, we didn't mention

622
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: that she was a hairdresser. Oh yeah, No, she had

623
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: totally had that birch blonde hair. All three of them.

624
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: The hair was just three of them. The entire town

625
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: that they call it the Kansas Clock Actually no, seriously,

626
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: that's what it's called Kansas that anyway. Next, uh, I

627
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: guess a group of people is um Dustin Recla or

628
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: Michael Clay or Joseph Friedel or all three together some

629
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: combination there. So Dustin was actually Susie's boyfriend, and tell

630
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: about March. I'm guessing it was that. It's never like

631
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: explicitly said, but she broke up with him after this

632
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: thing that we're going to talk about. All three of

633
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: these men were charged with the men they were young men.

634
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: They were like eighteen seventeen nineteen. They were charged with

635
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: felony institutional vandalism for breaking into a mausoleum on February

636
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: twenty one. Classic guys, really classy. Oh Steve, pretty close though,

637
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: But oh Steve, I'm marry. I have to worry about

638
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: these things. I don't know how long you're going to

639
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: be married for I have Google calendar tell me yeah, yeah, better. Um.

640
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: So this was actually the reason that Susie broke up

641
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 1: with Dustin. She apparently was hanging out with the boys

642
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: and didn't know that that was the plan until suddenly

643
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: she was there at a mausoleum and they were breaking

644
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: into things, and you know, virtually I would I would

645
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: not want to date a grave robber. No, me neither.

646
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: So she broke up with him, and she provided at

647
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: a statement to the police which was instrumental in the

648
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: conviction of these three boys. Men. And they have just

649
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: to describe their crime a little bit more. They are

650
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: not only broke into the mausoleum, they took some skulls

651
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: out of the mausoleum, a bunch of skulls, and some

652
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: other skeleton bones, skeleton bones, skeletal remains um and Dustin

653
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: actually sold twenty six grams of gold fillings from the

654
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: skulls at a local pond shop. I believe that's where

655
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: he sold it. And the dude who worked there was like, yeah,

656
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: I'll buy him from you, but then I'm going to

657
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: call the cops. Yeah, because I'm sorry. You're pretty damn obvious.

658
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: They were probably a few full on gold teeth in there.

659
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: They look like teeth. They're very It's a little surprising

660
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: because I thought that's what the people at the funeral

661
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: homes did. Yeah, I thought, yeah, I thought they pulled

662
00:36:51,680 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: those before they buried peoples. Oh no, in Springfield, get

663
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: it gets some sort of specially pay fivefore we won't

664
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: rob the corps. Maybe he who knows. So there's this

665
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: little tidbit that gets thrown around a lot that I

666
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: think is like blown way out of proportion. But apparently

667
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: after the cops were called, they went to, uh question Dustin.

668
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: His sister answered, um, she didn't let them in, but

669
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: they were able to see behind her that there were

670
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: a lot of occult things like am and according to

671
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: the Disappeared episode, red candles. So that's I think that's

672
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: so crazy, blown out of proportion, because especially because they say, oh,

673
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: when they came back the next day, Dustin was there

674
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: and all the things were gone, and it's just kind

675
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: of like, oh my god. In the early nineties, you

676
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: gotta remember there was such a weird devil worship panic

677
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: in this country though people were specially Springfield is like

678
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: you would you call it Central and West I mean,

679
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: it's it's in that Bible belt to me, And there

680
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: were i mean even where I lived in in Oregon,

681
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: there was a bit of that, oh my gosh, don't

682
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: do this, it's safe. But also in the nineties, right,

683
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: that was like the start of the hot topic generation.

684
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you have both the goth hot

685
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 1: topic kind of punk rocker kids growing up as well

686
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: as the people who are really scared of most people.

687
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: And to have some red candles really means that you're

688
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: dumb and shop at Spencer's more than it does you're

689
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 1: worshiping the devil. But okay, yeah, and it probably wasn't

690
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: some giant tapestry. It was probably a damn poster held

691
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: up with it. Probably was a poster of like a

692
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: band that just happened to band post something. Yeah, that

693
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: would make sense generally speaking, when you're if you're worshiping

694
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: the devil, you don't actually put obvious signs where they

695
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: can be seen right from your front door. Yeah, that's

696
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: the other part, in the back room or something like that. Well,

697
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: according to the local police, they always had signs with

698
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: an air that's a devil worshiping this way. The way

699
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: they made it out to me is when I was

700
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: that age, So I don't think it was any of

701
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: these boys, Although apparently Dustin gave an interview in which

702
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: he said he hoped the women were dead. Well, he

703
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: might have been upset with Susan. I'm sure he was.

704
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: He had been charged at and that was a pretty

705
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: dumb thing to do. When they're like, hey, we're going

706
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 1: to question you in conjunction with the disappearance of three

707
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: women who are probably dead. For you to say, yeah,

708
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: I hope they are, it's like, well, maybe that was

709
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: a dumb choice, But I don't think anybody really thinks

710
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: that he did it. Did he say that after they

711
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: had disappeared? Is that when he said? I thought so? Okay,

712
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: And I believe that too, But I thought he was

713
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: being questioned in conjunction with I see. I know that

714
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: he did it in front of her if I remember

715
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: he was in front of a reporter, so I'm pretty

716
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: sure he was at the courthouse, probably had to go

717
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: in for a hearing. He realizes he's gonna get the

718
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: entire book thrown at him at his curious and has

719
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 1: to take it out on somebody. So let's blame that

720
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: bleep who turned me in. Let's say some really bad

721
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: things about her. I think that's exactly what I think.

722
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: That's what everybody thinks pretty much. But he's on the

723
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: list of suspects. Yeah, but yeah again, great robbing is bad,

724
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: but it's not quite like mass murder. Yeah. So next

725
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: is um Larry Dwayne Hall. This guy is weird. It's

726
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: kind of developmentally disabled, I think is the term. Well,

727
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: but he's creepy looking. I don't mean like, you know

728
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: his mental factor charge manson creepy looking. Yes, and he's

729
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: got the big mutton chops and he was a civil

730
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 1: warrior actually with his twin. Yes, he's a twin, Gary

731
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: and Larry. Yeah, because because parents, if you have twins,

732
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: don't be so freaking cute to name your kids with

733
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: rhyming similar names when one of them ends up to

734
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: be a psychopaa did you go do you know, making

735
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: the normal one feel even weirder? But yeah, know it

736
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: was because correct me if I'm wrong here. Joe Gary

737
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: was the normal one and it was Larry who had

738
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: it was born with an umbilical quarter on his neck

739
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: because this is what I heard. Yeah, okay, because that's

740
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: oxygen deprivation. As a child. Yeah, so he was a

741
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: little what did you call it development? Yeah, that might

742
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: be an offensive term by now, I don't know. I

743
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: apologize my aggression, I know, but anyway, Yeah, so he

744
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: was very low like you or is or is I

745
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: should say, well, yeah, and Helogy is still alive about

746
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: in prison of course. Okay, So Devin, what what's this guy?

747
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: He was traveling in the area, right, yeah, right for

748
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: a recreation, wasn't it. Well there was. There was like

749
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: a bunch of happening. Well, yeah, his because it was

750
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: going to keep screwing their names up. Way to go, parents,

751
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep complaining about this family of the

752
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: noble One had gotten into Civil War reenactments, and he

753
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: got Larry into it because Gary always had friends, and

754
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: Larry was the one who sat in the corner by himself,

755
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: and he brought him to those and he started making friends.

756
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: And I know that like one of the reason he

757
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: that Larry really liked it is because he could grow

758
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: the big mutton chops and hide the fact that he

759
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 1: had really bad acne, because if you see the pictures

760
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: of him, they're massive mutton chops um like the size

761
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. But but I know that he he was.

762
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: You know, obviously the guy had something wrong because he

763
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: didn't shower all the time. Like that was one of

764
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: the reasons that people wouldn't hang out with him is

765
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: he didn't shower. But if you're going to do a

766
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: really realistic civil war reenact, that's it's perfect right, But

767
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't show up to the month at

768
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: a time meeting stinking of your own filth. Probably okay, well,

769
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: but um, okay, you're right. What was I thinking? Obviously

770
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: Larry needed a caretaker, but no, but he um. He

771
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: got arrested in nineties three for the me I believe

772
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: it's the murder of Lori to Peas and he drove

773
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: a van like this. This guy. I really wanted to

774
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: be this guy because it makes it so easy, except

775
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 1: for the fact that his mental faculties make it so

776
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: hard to pin him down. Because he had a van,

777
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 1: he would pick up girls and by his own admission,

778
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: sometimes nothing happened and he left them, you know, he

779
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: took them somewhere, or sometimes they didn't like He covers

780
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: one lady to come to his van so he could

781
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: show her a photo album of antique cars. Girls don't

782
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: be nice to the guy who gives you the creeps, Like,

783
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: don't go to his van. Never, Like it doesn't even

784
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: if he doesn't give you the creeps, because some of

785
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: the people were going to talk to, like on the

786
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 1: face value, if I didn't know their criminal history, I'd

787
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, me be, I'd go to your van

788
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: with you. Don't ever go to somebody's van. Just don't

789
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: do it. Don't do it. Yeah, as a child never, Yeah,

790
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: I really want to see a van bike though, bicycle,

791
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: I really want to see that. Yeah. But so as

792
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: as far as Hall goes, I I can't believe he

793
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: did it himself. But if he had a partner, maybe

794
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: somebody with a little more brains, then well that's he

795
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: suspected of abducting and possibly killing up to what is it,

796
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: forty women? Okay, but but those are all one offs,

797
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: Like somebody caught his attention and he followed that person

798
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: and then talked them into getting into the creepy van

799
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: and everything was okay, and abducted them, yes, not like

800
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: murdered and disappeared them forever. And they were one off,

801
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: one at a time. That's why I really, I'd be

802
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: so easy to paint it on this guy, yeah, because

803
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: you can tell he's got problems. Yeah, but no, I

804
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: mean I think three women as soon as as soon

805
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: as they start to go bad. If you know, if

806
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: you're not on top of it, there's going to be

807
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: some fighting back, somebody's gonna get away. It's you know. Actually,

808
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: I really kind of think that it would be it

809
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: would be hard for one person to do this. I

810
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: agree you two guys with guns could do it quite easily.

811
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: One guy with a gun, I suppose. I suppose. Yeah,

812
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 1: So let me let me ask you a question. Larry,

813
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 1: I know, according to some sources on the internet, could

814
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: have been working in cahoots with his brother Gary, because

815
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: some people say Gary was probably the one that was

816
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: doing it and he was the mastermind and just blaming it. Yes,

817
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: And and Larry of course just went along with it,

818
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,959
Speaker 1: not knowing any better, just admitted to what his brother

819
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: told him to admit to. But Joe brings up a

820
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: good point. And I want to ask this, because I

821
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: haven't seen this anywhere. Do any of our suspects, and

822
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: I'm using air quotes on that, how are they have

823
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: they ever been known to work with a second or

824
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: third party no, except for if it were the three boys,

825
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: that's the only where they could have been. We we've

826
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: got a good idea of multiple Yeah, okay, yeah, next up,

827
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: Stephen Eugene Garrison, Sarah killers always have a name. We

828
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: always have three. Yeah. I don't understand that. I mean,

829
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: I understand if it's three first names, because I've heard

830
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: that before, but it's now they just used all of

831
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: their names, not always Stephen Eugene Garrison. Those really aren't

832
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: first names to me. I wonder if Larry Dwayne Hall

833
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 1: not first names? All first names Larry and Dwayne are

834
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: Hall is not a first name? Well, Dwayne the way

835
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: he spells it as dumb Dwayne d Wayne. Yeah, but

836
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: that's not unusual. Yea, not too terribly unusual. Okay, that's so.

837
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: Garrison is currently serving forty years for raping, sodomizing, and

838
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: terrorizing a female college student in the summer of Springfield.

839
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: He apparently part evidently had air quote friend who was

840
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: drunk at a already once and this air quote friend

841
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: confessed to killing the Springfield three. And it's unclear if

842
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: the police believed that this was an actual friend or

843
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: if it was an air quote friend as I've been

844
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: referring to it. As he gave testimony, he said, Hey,

845
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: actually I know something about the Springfield Three. I know

846
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: about those missing women. Did he was this in the

847
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: context of he was already in prison or he was yeah,

848
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: and and friend? Is this in the context of I'm

849
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: calling the radio or I'm going to the doctor to

850
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: ask about this thing that my friend quote friend? And

851
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if the police believe that it was

852
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: a friend that told him all this stuff or if

853
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 1: he was just he's only serving forty years somehow for raping, sodomizing,

854
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: and terrorizing a female. But hey, cool, he's going to

855
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: get out sometime in his life. So if he admitted

856
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: to doing the Springfield Three, obviously he would never get out.

857
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 1: Um he was able to provide information that was unknown

858
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: to the public, and um. Some of the formation led

859
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: investigators to serve three search warrants on a property that

860
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: had been owned by a name man named Francis Lee

861
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: rob sr Is that the farm one of the places

862
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: I think I seem to remember them going to was,

863
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: you know, doing multiple checks on was a farm. I

864
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: don't know if you remember what are we talking about?

865
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: The farm that was owned by the concrete guys, we'll

866
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: talk about Okay, this is a different parcel of land. Um.

867
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: And it turns out Francis Lee Rob Senior, because he's

868
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: got three names too, is also a convicted murderer. No

869
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: seniors on a name, it's a suffix. He pled guilty

870
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: to a second degree murder in conjunction with a drug

871
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: deal gone awry. Uh. And apparently police initially thought Garrison

872
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: might have been responsible, and then they kind of backed

873
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 1: off that he's just a person of interest now because

874
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: he was able to provide so many details that weren't well,

875
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: so they thought he was potentially the murderer. But they

876
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: but they also I presume, got a name of the friend,

877
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: Lee Rob. Yeah, well that was the friend who owned

878
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: the property that I mean, I don't know that it

879
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: was the friend. This is the guy who owned the

880
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: property that um. Garrison statements led the police to search

881
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: who also happens to be a murderer. I'm so glad

882
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm not a cop and have to deal with that

883
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: cat and mouse game of Well, I don't want to

884
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: tell you who the friend is, but if you go

885
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: to such and such address, oh, well that's where Mr

886
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: Rob lifts. Yeah, well is it Mr Rob your friend? Well, no,

887
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: I don't want to run out of my friends, but

888
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: it's such a weird time to get ubber hose. Yeah. Yeah.

889
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: So next up is Gerald Carnahan. So it turns out

890
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: Springfield not a great place to be. Carnahan is serving

891
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the

892
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 1: murder and rape of Jackie John's in five, which actually

893
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: happened not in Springfield. It was not a He was

894
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: just living in Springfield in in the early nineties and

895
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: he didn't actually get a convicted of this. Yeah exactly.

896
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: He got away with it, but it was pretty awful murder.

897
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: He beat her up really bad. And he was actually

898
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: on vacation with his family in a motel room and

899
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: came back to the motel room and his mom was like,

900
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: what happened to you? He was like, I got in

901
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: a fight. So she took him to the hospital because

902
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: he was covered in blood, and he told the people

903
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: in the er that he had bit his own tongue

904
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: in a fight, but the nurse was like, nah, somebody

905
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 1: tried to bite your tongue out of your mouth, like

906
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: while you were doing something back because it's just the

907
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: way that the direction of the crescent. Yeah. Um so

908
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: uh they actually found Jackie's body like like a hundred

909
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: yards away from the motel that he was staying at.

910
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: His criminal record is pretty long. I'm just going to

911
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: read some. In January. On January he was charged with

912
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: second degree burglary of a business um. On the same date,

913
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: he was convicted of stealing from that business and arson

914
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: to the same business. Apparently he wasn't He had some

915
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: sort of a business himself and this was a competing

916
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: con business business. Yeah. Yeah. On January tenth of that

917
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: same year, he was charged with the attempted kidnapping of

918
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: a girl uh in Springfield. In uh June one same year,

919
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: he was charged with the assault of a law enforcement

920
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: officer and lost unlawful use of a weapon. So I

921
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: guess spent a lot of time in jail. Yeah, he did, so,

922
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: I guess for me. His murder of of Jackie John's

923
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: was really really brutal, and he did not clean himself

924
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: up well. Granted it was in eighty five and the

925
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: Springfield three went missing in two so he could have

926
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: perfected perfected his art. God, I hate that said that,

927
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: but he could have he could evolved, is the word

928
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: I'm really looking for. Certainly abducting and murdering three people, Yeah,

929
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be beyond this guy. No, I

930
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: don't think so. But interesting fact, I don't think the

931
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,959
Speaker 1: police have ever questioned him in conjunction with this case.

932
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: Why not? I don't know. I think they don't think

933
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: that he's a suspect. I don't know why. I was

934
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: going to say. His m O doesn't seem to match.

935
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:41,399
Speaker 1: He's a messy, bloody, sloppy killer, which doesn't match up

936
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: with a physical evidence that we have, right, which is

937
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: no physical evidence exactly. Next is Robert Cox. I don't

938
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: like this guy. I'm sorry, I've started. Every single one

939
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: of these was just a huge sigh because, oh my god, like,

940
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: how many horrible people in the early of in Springfield

941
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: for real? Though? Yeah, but actually there's there's probably you know,

942
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: it's probably every major sity is there's probably just I

943
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: have to walk in the car tonight, So that's not well.

944
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you know, if you ever really

945
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: want to delve into the depths, God, what is it?

946
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: Murder PDA? That is the list of serial killers and

947
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: their alphabetical by state. That's a lot of them, and

948
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, I've done it. I've combed through

949
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: it for different stories saying okay, well who was kind

950
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: of active at that time? And it always takes about

951
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: a dozen or so before I go, okay, stop reading it,

952
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: look at the active date because it is such a

953
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: horrible thing to read, like, I don't I don't know

954
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: how people can look into these kind of cases all

955
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: the time. I know that's why we mix it up,

956
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: because I would go bunkers, Yeah, absolutely there, Yeah, I

957
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: don't know, I've got it. Some some FBI asant said

958
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: at one time there's anywhere from like seven to ten

959
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: active serial killers in the US at any given time. Great,

960
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: thank you for that. Yeah, you're walking, so we're going

961
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: to turn to the porch light and we'll watch from

962
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: the window as long as it's yeah, yeah, something bad happens.

963
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: We promised to send a text to the police. Thank you. So.

964
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: Robert Cox is serving a life life sentence plus a

965
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 1: consecutive fifteen year federal sentence for a robbery in which

966
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: he held a gun to a twelve year old girl

967
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: human shield. Yep. He was previously incarcerated on death row

968
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety for the brutal murder of a nineteen

969
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: year old woman, but the Florida Supreme Court set him

970
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: free after they determined there wasn't actually enough evidence to

971
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: convict him, even though he had a trial of his

972
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: peers and which they thought that he was guilty. Apparently

973
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: that wasn't enough. Sometimes you know, you connect sleep convict

974
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: a guy on on bad and I'm bad or skippy out,

975
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: and it's just because you know that they're like, you know,

976
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: well he wouldn't be here if it wasn't guilty of something.

977
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:14,359
Speaker 1: So well. In fact, so he had been extradited from

978
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: California because he who's serving a jail sentence in California,

979
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: and then in Florida they were like, oh, actually we

980
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: have this thing we want to charge him for. And

981
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, it's a bigger sentence, no problem, Yeah,

982
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: I put him on death row. Fine. Uh. And so

983
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: once the Florida Supreme Court overturned his like his death

984
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: row sentence he had, he went back to California to

985
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: finish serving his sentence there. But I think it probably

986
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: didn't help his case to be in there and for

987
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: them to say like Okay, so where did you come from?

988
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: And he was like, jail in California for doing a

989
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: crime that probably didn't help help we extradited you from

990
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: another state. That's actually one of the reasons that a

991
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: lot of these, uh, these guys that have killed so many,

992
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: they'll never admit to all of them because they will

993
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: either in mean two ones that are in states that

994
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: don't have the death penalty, or not admit to them

995
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: if it is a state with the death penalty. Because

996
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: I know that Larry Dwayne Hall, that's one of the

997
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: things he won't admit to everybody. He won't even talk

998
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: about him because he knows that some of those states

999
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: have the death penalty. And I'm sure that Cox was

1000
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: probably you know, looking at the same thing Cox wasn't

1001
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: is he's still alive. Is a very terrifying man. He's

1002
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: the one you look at Did you look at pictures

1003
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: of him? Oh? Yeah, he's like a fairly attractive, charismatic

1004
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: guy who like doesn't necessarily look creepy, Like it's creepy

1005
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: to know what he did and think about the fact

1006
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: that like if he if I were his agent, he

1007
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: approached me in a bar, I would probably be like, yeah,

1008
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: you're cute, no problem, which is scary things to admit,

1009
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: right that, Like sometimes Serio would look like that. Sometimes

1010
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: they're not culture creepy. Sometimes that's true. So until later

1011
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: in life they at that tattoo between their eyes on

1012
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: the forehead with the yeah. So the zelo um I

1013
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: forgot to mention. So after after he finished his his

1014
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: term term sentence sentence in California, he was released and

1015
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: returned to his childhood home of Springfield, Missouri. Yea, Springfield, yea,

1016
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of a weird Springfield's a weird little nexus point.

1017
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: Did you either of you notice that if you look

1018
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: at it on the map, there is a lot of

1019
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: major arterials, freeways and highways and stuff that kind of

1020
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: cut through it. Like the border of it. It almost

1021
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: looks like a triangle on its side, you know, like

1022
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: to play symbol on your DVD player. It's that shape.

1023
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: And that's because those three sides are created by major roads.

1024
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: And so it's one of those places that we've talked

1025
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: about these kind of places before. They're dangerous to live

1026
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: in because every creep drifts through them. Yeah, it's uh,

1027
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: it's true. It's it's a fairly large spread out town

1028
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: and and yeah, lots of highways. So yeah, you're getting

1029
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: all the all the worst of the worst driving through

1030
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: town any given time. Well, the thing is is, you

1031
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: know it's hard to track down, but did you actually

1032
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: find where their house was on the map? Yeah, you know,

1033
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: I didn't. I looked at the hospital. Well I found

1034
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: their house because if you dig deep enough you can

1035
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: find their address. It's not so deep. Yeah, well but

1036
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: it's not a lot of the places just ignore it.

1037
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: But the point is I found the house. It's actually

1038
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: on a main four lane road. It's like a block

1039
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: off of it actually makes it super easy to get

1040
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: it out. An interesting thing about where that witness saw

1041
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: maybe Susie driving the van was that it would have

1042
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: been if she had just taken a wrong turn instead

1043
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: of going to the highway, if she had taken a

1044
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: wrong turn, like maybe she was trying to stall or something,

1045
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: because it was apparently pretty quick to get the highway

1046
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: from their house. Yeah, it was right there, and then

1047
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: you were with the main business route. Yeah, so it

1048
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: was like kind of the area. I got the impression

1049
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: it was like a cult det act like NEIGHBORHOODI area

1050
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: that would have been very clear that she wasn't going

1051
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: where she was supposed to if she was supposed to

1052
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: be driving on the highway anyway, Cox the woman that

1053
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: the family of the woman that he was on death

1054
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: row for killing Um. The Zeller family, Uh, they never

1055
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: doubted that it was Cox that murdered Um their daughter.

1056
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: And so they actually did a creepy, kind of horrible thing,

1057
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: but in this case, awesome thing. And they tracked him.

1058
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: They they made note of every time he moved, because

1059
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: this was before they actually kept those lists public. Yeah.

1060
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a creepy thing at all. I

1061
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: think it was probably good for them, yea. So they

1062
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: actually Yeah, and when they found out that the Springfield

1063
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: three and gone missing and that Cox was in fact

1064
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: in the area at the time, they called the police

1065
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: and said, hey, just you know, this dude who's like

1066
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: a couple of times convicted murderer and abductor and overall

1067
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: horrible human being was in the area. This is kind

1068
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: of like his m O. You should check him out. Um.

1069
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: And the police have question Cox a number of times.

1070
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: He's currently in jail in Texas. They've questioned him like

1071
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: three times, I think, and every single time it's very

1072
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: clear that he's toying with them. Whether he did it

1073
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: or not, he's getting off on toying with them. Yeah,

1074
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: that's probably so, probably good entertainment for him. I mean,

1075
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: there's not a lot to do in prison. Yeah, that's true.

1076
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: Did he gave an interview with a reporter once. Yeah,

1077
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: and that's the one that we all get to watch.

1078
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: I hate that interview. Oh he is so horrible, he

1079
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: says um. He stated multiple times, like dead pan to camera.

1080
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: Well I know they're dead, and I know they're buried

1081
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: somewhere near the city. I just know, he says, I

1082
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: just I just know. Actually, and they probably are dead

1083
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: and buried somewhere near the city. It's highly likely. And

1084
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: that maybe he maybe, you know, pulling the same card

1085
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: that all those drug store psychics do, but he's pulling

1086
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: it off in a way creepier way because he doesn't

1087
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: have the turbine and he doesn't have the globe. Yeah. Well,

1088
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: so that there are some other really big problems with

1089
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: the Cox. Thing is that they did they questioned him

1090
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: because the Zeller. It was it was quick. It wasn't

1091
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: like months and months after the women went missing. They

1092
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: heard about this once it hit the national news and

1093
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: they called the police. Um, and so within a week

1094
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: they were they were questioning Cox and he said, oh,

1095
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, um, it couldn't possibly been me because I

1096
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: was with my girlfriend. Yes, he had a girlfriend and

1097
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: her horrible and we were actually at church early on

1098
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, so I couldn't have been involved at all.

1099
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 1: You know. I was at home asleep and then we

1100
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: woke up and went to church. And his girlfriend corroborated

1101
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: that story. She said, oh, yeah, no, he we went

1102
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: to church that morning, everything was normal, he was there. Uh.

1103
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until later after they broke up and

1104
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: he was convicted of another crime that they requestioned her

1105
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: and she said, oh no, no, I was lying. Yeah, No,

1106
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: he wasn't home. I don't know where he was. Yeah,

1107
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 1: here's a question, you know, I think we've talked about

1108
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: this before, maybe not, but I just always wonder how

1109
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: far is it routine to go to check a witness alibi.

1110
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: In other words, when the girlfriend says, yeah, we were

1111
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: at church, Oh really, okay, great, what church did you

1112
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: go to? What's the name of the pastor, And then

1113
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: go to the damned church and asked the people were

1114
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: there That's what makes this kind of a weak alibis

1115
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: because it's pretty easy to break. Yeah, so I just

1116
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: don't know. It depends on how big the church community is.

1117
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: I mean, really, you know, if it's a really big community,

1118
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: it's totally reasonable to expect that nobody would be able

1119
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: to remember if you know, one man was missing from

1120
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: a group. I don't know they should have You're right,

1121
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: they have. The parish knows if oh, yeah, she always

1122
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: comes by herself. He he works late, she says, or yeah,

1123
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: it was weird he wasn't there at that time. Like that,

1124
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: those things come out. People love to talk about each other,

1125
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,919
Speaker 1: but it's less than less. So if it's like, yeah,

1126
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: he comes with her, sometimes he doesn't. Other times, I

1127
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: don't know what happened. But anyway, it turns out he

1128
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: had he had another alibi, which was turns out he

1129
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: after that one fell through. He he's swore uping down

1130
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: if he was as he stayed the night at his

1131
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: parents place, and his parents his parents corroborated that the

1132
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: girlfriend backed out. Yeah yeah, then he said no, no no,

1133
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: I was at my parents house. But at that point

1134
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: I would just not be believing the guy. Although even

1135
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: if he didn't have a good alibi. It doesn't mean

1136
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: he killed anybody. True. Well, actually I guess he did

1137
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: kill somebody, but yeah, not maybe maybe not, So he

1138
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: actually did. He worked with Stacy his father um for

1139
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: a while, not when they went went missing, but he

1140
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: did work with her father and would have met her

1141
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: when she brought dinners to her father at work. Her

1142
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: father was in the service department. Okay, yeah, service department

1143
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: of what I think it was like a mechanic shop

1144
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: where it was a dealership, Yeah, dealership, So he was

1145
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: working on cars there and then uh, Cox didn't have

1146
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: that job anymore. And actually when the women went missing,

1147
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: he was employed as a utility locator, which means that

1148
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: he was the guy who would knock on your door

1149
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: and say, hey, there's a problem with your gas line.

1150
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: You got to get out at two o'clock in the morning.

1151
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: It would help to have an official van, an official uniform, Yeah,

1152
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: sure would. Well, the green van didn't seem to have

1153
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: gas company printing on the side of it. Didn't know,

1154
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: But if you've got a dude with the uniform, I mean,

1155
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe he had a magnet they make those.

1156
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: Well I was gonna say is. You know, the magnets

1157
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: weren't that common at that time. I remember them kind

1158
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: of coming out in the early nineties. But I also

1159
01:04:56,320 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: I don't think personally that I look or the gas

1160
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 1: company van because you look to see if the guys

1161
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,439
Speaker 1: in his uniform, because the gas company has so many

1162
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: people in so many vehicles, god knows what the Yeah,

1163
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: especially if your porchlight is out, you're not going to

1164
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: be able to see if there's writing on the side

1165
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: of the van. Probably as much. Um the guy just

1166
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: showed up at the gun and didn't bother with the uniform. Possible, yeah, yeah.

1167
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 1: And actually Cox had abducted a woman in five that

1168
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: seemed to be a big gear for getting abducted. Um.

1169
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: She was in an airport parking lot. Um. And he

1170
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: pulled a duffel bag full of automatic weapons and survival

1171
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: gear out of his trunk and threw it in her

1172
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: car and instructed her to drive to the mountains. She

1173
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: managed to escape by somehow convincing Cox that they should

1174
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 1: stop by her friend's house. He's an idiot, um yeah um.

1175
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: And then Cox held the friend hostage at gunpoint until

1176
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: the survived and arrested him. He's still an idiot and

1177
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: he had it. Turns out the way he had he

1178
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: had just forced her to drive by sticking a gun

1179
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: in her side, which I think is an important note

1180
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 1: because he could have been forcing Stacy to drive. Absolutely well, Yeah,

1181
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: it's very easy. He could have pulled a gun on

1182
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: one the other two. Okay, you kneel down her, I

1183
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: shoot her in the side. Okay, now you tie her up.

1184
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: Now you tie her up, now you drive. Yeah, I

1185
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: mean it's a very easy order to guess how it

1186
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: might have happened. Yeah, absolutely so, I think I I

1187
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: think he's a strong contender. I don't know people who

1188
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: could have done it. I still why not? It's um,

1189
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: it's another one of those too easy. He's made so

1190
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: many grandstanding attempts or not attempts, but he just stood

1191
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: up and he shouted at the world so many times

1192
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,479
Speaker 1: I know something about this case when at the same

1193
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: time it's I'm locked in prison forever and nobody cares

1194
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: like he just wants something to be to people to

1195
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: look at him, because it's not uncommon for these guys

1196
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 1: to have this goal of I'm gonna go down in

1197
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: history as this, and then when that whole thing falls apart, crap,

1198
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: What else will I be remembered for? I got to

1199
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,919
Speaker 1: do something, and so they you know, they kind of

1200
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 1: spitball something else together. I just he just he begs

1201
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: for attention. He begs for it too much for me

1202
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: to buy him. Now he hasn't. He said that he

1203
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: knows what happened, but he's not going to tell until

1204
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: after his mother dies. Yeah. Okay, that right there, that's

1205
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: a total crap line, absolute garbage. You know what, you

1206
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: just don't want to tell. You want people to to

1207
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: to root for your mom to die. Why Why did

1208
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: somebody kill his mother? Okay, okay, your mom just happened

1209
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: to have a little accident in the parking lot. You

1210
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: know they do of this crap on TV. Is they say,

1211
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm sorry your mom died. Mom is totally in on it,

1212
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: families totally in on it. Called dad dad, Yes, she died.

1213
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,320
Speaker 1: It was so tragic, it was so sudden. And then

1214
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 1: the cops are like, hey, so they remember us. I

1215
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 1: could totally totally be done and I'm sure it's been

1216
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: done before. I don't think it could in his case

1217
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: because his parents have provided his alibi for him, right,

1218
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: I mean, like at some point it's like they are

1219
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: supporting him. Either he was at their house and so

1220
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: they are confident that he didn't do it, so they

1221
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: don't need to fake the death because he has nothing

1222
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: to say or he wasn't and they know he wasn't

1223
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: and they know he did something, and they're not going

1224
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: to fake the death because why they're backing him up

1225
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: already and makes some liars. Maybe it's simplest thing to

1226
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 1: do is just kill her. This is okay, So we've

1227
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 1: got we've got in the wrong direction of trying to

1228
01:08:54,960 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: get the other really big question is where are their remains? Right? Yeah,

1229
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: So there's a hospital in Springfield called Cox Hospital. I

1230
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 1: think it's isn't it Cox Memorial South Hospital or something

1231
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: like that. It's a very low name. Yeah, there's no

1232
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: relation yeah to the six Yeah okay, um, and they

1233
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: were in the process of building a new parking garage

1234
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: that was poured concrete. A lot of people believe that

1235
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 1: their remains are actually the Springfield three remains are in

1236
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 1: the body of all three women? Are there? Who did

1237
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: they originally get a tip about this? There's actually got

1238
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 1: a lot of tips about it. Um, like a lot

1239
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 1: of tips. I don't remember how many it was, I

1240
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: would say it was more than fifty, and said, I

1241
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: think their remains are probably there. And the garage has

1242
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: been surveyed by a engineer of some kind of can't

1243
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: remember what kind of engineer he is, but he they

1244
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 1: have like he's like the sonar technology that yeah, training

1245
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: radar exactly, So yeah that thing. Um, and he actually

1246
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,719
Speaker 1: worked with the government after nine eleven to help recover

1247
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 1: the body bodies after all of that stuff, so he's

1248
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: got a pretty solid track record. He came out and

1249
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:22,679
Speaker 1: scanned the garage and um, they didn't say really anything.

1250
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: They just said, we're we want to see if there

1251
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: are some anomalies here. And he did the little And

1252
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: that's a reporter who brought him out, right, she is

1253
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: an investigative reporter. Yeah, yeah, she's when he started. Yeah,

1254
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: I just trained. I think she actually even even hired him.

1255
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: She did. It's what's her name, Kathy something, Yeah, um,

1256
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: and she hired him to come out and I you know,

1257
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: the story is presented that she said, but we don't.

1258
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 1: We just want to know if there's some anomalies here.

1259
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: And he scanned the whole thing and he said, yeah,

1260
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 1: there's three right here. Uh, to our parallel and one

1261
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: it's perpendicular to them. And you know, it's not a

1262
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: perfect picture, but if I had to guess, it would

1263
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: be kind of what we would see at a grave site. Yep.

1264
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,719
Speaker 1: He said it was about three feet down and she said, cool,

1265
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: let's dig this thing up. And the police said, Nah.

1266
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: Doesn't have the best relationship with the Springfield Police for

1267
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: being an investigative reporter. She seems to have really wrapped

1268
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: up the wrong way. And I think that most of

1269
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: these murmurs come from her. But there are murmurs out

1270
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 1: there that there's been kind of a willful slowing down

1271
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 1: or something similar of this case. I don't buy it.

1272
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: But there are some people out there who say, like

1273
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,679
Speaker 1: the police aren't doing everything they could, which in this

1274
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: one instance, I will agree, Like, it wouldn't be so

1275
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: hard to get a freaking core sample, don't You don't

1276
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: have to start the whole thing up. Just take a

1277
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: core sample, like near are one of the anomalies and

1278
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: stick a camera down there. That's what they're gonna do. Yeah,

1279
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: two hole, Yeah, stick a camera. Or you get one

1280
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: of those body sniffing dogs and just let them loosen

1281
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: nearby and see if he makes a bee line for

1282
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: the whole Yeah, there's a check on that. Yeah, so

1283
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 1: that would be well, you know, I've actually I've thought

1284
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 1: about this a lot. Okay, So the hospital doesn't want

1285
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: to do it unless they have to write. So of

1286
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:27,719
Speaker 1: course their statement is we will comply with any request

1287
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: from law enforcement. That they say law enforcement in this

1288
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 1: case enthusiastic and law enforcements not enthusiastic. And I gotta

1289
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: tell you, I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that at this

1290
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: point law enforcement is not enthusiastic because they know they're

1291
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: gonna get nowhere. Like they've been dealing with it for

1292
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: over twenty years. They are tired of people bringing it

1293
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: up because they've gone to every length and if they look,

1294
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: they're going to open up another cannon worms because if

1295
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: they find something, they're gonna have to dig it up,

1296
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: and then it's gonna be, well, we found the bodies,

1297
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 1: but we don't know jack squat or look the body

1298
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: down't there, and people are just gonna bring the whole

1299
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: thing up. And I think it's total bad publicity for

1300
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,679
Speaker 1: that police department. I think it's I think it's actually

1301
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,559
Speaker 1: worse for them to just be sitting on their hands

1302
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: and not not taking taking advantage of this, because I

1303
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: don't disagree with that at all. Not cost much of

1304
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 1: anything to do some core samples. Actually you don't even

1305
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: do to do three, you just do one. But you

1306
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: know what, the guy in charge, he says, I don't

1307
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: want us to go through this, uh, this guano storm

1308
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: that's about to erupt if we open this up, we're

1309
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: just gonna push it aside and do nothing. He doesn't

1310
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: think about it that way. He just thinks, I don't

1311
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:43,640
Speaker 1: have to do We don't we we're not going to

1312
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 1: deal with it. We're just done. We're done. I'm finished.

1313
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:48,759
Speaker 1: That's all they're doing. I know that's what they're thinking.

1314
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the farm real quick? Oh? Yeah,

1315
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 1: yea ya yah yah yah yea yeah yeah. So this

1316
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: is my my interesting little bit about this theory. I

1317
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 1: guess that they're buried there. Um. The police have searched

1318
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 1: this area in Webster County twice, once in and then

1319
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,879
Speaker 1: again in two thousand two. The first time they refused

1320
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: to disclose what they found there. So they could have

1321
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: found absolutely nothing whatsoever. Could have found absolutely nothing whatsoever,

1322
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: but they the way they refused to disclose it is

1323
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: they said that there were private details pertaining to the

1324
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: case that they discovered, so they weren't going to release

1325
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 1: any of the details. Um, which is a suspicious way

1326
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,559
Speaker 1: to say we didn't find anything, But it's a way

1327
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: that you could say, but they might have found something

1328
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 1: that was unrelated to the case that led them to

1329
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: a completely different case. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Hey, look it

1330
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: turns out the guy's got a giant pot farm. The

1331
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 1: second time they went, it was because two women called

1332
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: in a tip. The specifics of said tip are hazy

1333
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: at best, UM, but they did say that two men

1334
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: who were employed at the local concrete company owned this

1335
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: property in the nineteen nineties um, and that the men

1336
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 1: owned a van that was very similar to the one

1337
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: described vibed. And also that the men left the area

1338
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,680
Speaker 1: the Springfield area, like within two weeks of the Springfield

1339
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,560
Speaker 1: three disappearing. And I think it's interesting just just on

1340
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: pure coincidence, I guess, since with this it's easy to

1341
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: just go on pure coincidence that two dudes who own

1342
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 1: a van that's similar to this, that their their land

1343
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: was searched really soon after that who happened to work

1344
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: for the local concrete company, which likely provided the poured

1345
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: concrete for said therefore, they've known the site. They've known

1346
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: the site and would have been able to go and

1347
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 1: like lay some concrete and probably people wouldn't be like, oh,

1348
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 1: there's an extra layer of concrete there. This tip from

1349
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 1: those two women came like ten years after the fact. Yeah,

1350
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 1: why West, What did it take him so long to

1351
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: remember this? I don't know if it took him so long,

1352
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 1: they'll remember it. If they didn't come for I don't

1353
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,560
Speaker 1: know what. And it may have been in conjunction with

1354
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: because that's about the time and I can't remember exactly

1355
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: when they did them search for the anomalies penetrating gradar,

1356
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 1: but it could have been the It was similar, It

1357
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: was close to that. As soon as they started saying,

1358
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: you know, they might be in the concrete that these

1359
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 1: women were like, oh, actually that would that's weird. So

1360
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: there would therefore have The names of these two men

1361
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: are correct, I presume, but I've never seen them released anywhere.

1362
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 1: The names. I am really intrigued, and I agree with

1363
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,679
Speaker 1: both of you that just take this core sample, see

1364
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 1: what the hell is down there. But at the same time,

1365
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:36,639
Speaker 1: I've worked on enough construction sites to know that holes

1366
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 1: in the ground because ground penetrating radar is not perfect.

1367
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: It's not what you see on the TV. Doesn't give

1368
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: you this crystal clear image. It's just this weird black

1369
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 1: and white lines thing. I mean, there's nothing great about it.

1370
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: And I worked on enough construction sites where the dumb

1371
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: guy with the shovel or the baco kept digging more

1372
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 1: than he needed to and the boss yelled at i mean,

1373
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:03,760
Speaker 1: told him to stop, and so he smoothed it out

1374
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: and then they poured stuff on top of it. It

1375
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 1: could be as simple as that. It could They're kind

1376
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: of suspiciously laid out for it to be that, But

1377
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: it could be that. I'm not willing to rule anything else.

1378
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 1: Well that's what I'm saying. Like the guy with the backo,

1379
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:22,639
Speaker 1: he takes a grab, he takes another grab, he's goofing around. Yeah,

1380
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,799
Speaker 1: Like I've been in site where the guy in charge

1381
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 1: who shouldn't have been in charge, Like, hey, he would

1382
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: have run a little backo. It's really fun. And then

1383
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 1: I watched some idiot like whales somebody's house with a bucket.

1384
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 1: That reminds me of a story. Yeah, it's the thing

1385
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: that was that you know it doesn't isn't necessarily corpses.

1386
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: But we are looking for three bodies. There are three

1387
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: anomalies which are all side by side down there. All

1388
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: we know is that the plane of this is the

1389
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: plane of the soil, the profile, the horizons have been disturbed.

1390
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: They're at the same compaction. That's what it's. It's figuring out, yea,

1391
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 1: and they're different. It would mean prey dug worth checking out,

1392
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it just seems like just do it

1393
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:14,560
Speaker 1: easier anyway. And as my last thought, Cox seems like

1394
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,599
Speaker 1: a cocky enough kind of dude that if there were

1395
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: some way to dispose of somebody's in some way that

1396
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,560
Speaker 1: would be like his name, if he did it, I

1397
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: wouldn't It wouldn't shock me to find out that he

1398
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 1: managed to somehow bury them in a construction site next

1399
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: to the Cox Hospital, just because he was kind of

1400
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: a jerk like that. Yeah, it would be kind of

1401
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: like an in your face kind of thing. Yeah, remember me,

1402
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, that's this I don't have I'm sorry,

1403
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 1: I don't. It's not solved. I have nothing else, but oh,

1404
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:50,160
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that they're on Vesuvius two five seven. Yeah,

1405
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: that's the only happy. Those are your happy places that

1406
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,799
Speaker 1: you go there. They were abducted by cute, cuddly kitten

1407
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: aliens and spend their days petting kittens and feeding them.

1408
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: Happy kitten. That's really the only way to go with this.

1409
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean it's

1410
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: possible they're alive. I mean maybe they were sold into slavery.

1411
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 1: Another happy way to go. That's and I don't that

1412
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 1: seems strange because people getting sold into slavery are usually

1413
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 1: very young and individuals who are very They are in

1414
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:40,559
Speaker 1: that really risky lifestyle and they're very vulnerable. Three adult women. Yeah,

1415
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like, oh we got a cash drop

1416
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 1: right there. Yeah, No, I wasn't being too serious there, Okay,

1417
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: it wasn't. I don't think they were sold in slavery.

1418
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, no signs of a struggle,

1419
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 1: nothing really out of the ordinary. There shouldn't have been

1420
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 1: a struggle. And that's one one good thing about the

1421
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: whole contamination of the house is that if the guy

1422
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 1: just basically walks in with a gun or guys walks in,

1423
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: says you're coming with us, and leads them out again,

1424
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: that really would have been much of any way anything

1425
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:15,760
Speaker 1: in the world in terms of evidence anyway. Yeah yeah, well,

1426
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 1: and you know they're the neighbors aren't particularly far away,

1427
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: and they didn't hear any sign any struggles or anything

1428
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 1: like that, so that I mean, at least we know

1429
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,560
Speaker 1: nobody cleaned that up. Yeah. Yeah, So there you go.

1430
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 1: There's a happy mystery. You guys asked for this one,

1431
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: You've got more, are really happy, all of them. Like

1432
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: I am going to have to spend a lot of

1433
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 1: time meditating on our walls because this is going to

1434
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 1: be a fun month. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah yeah,

1435
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: anything else to add cool, Well, if you want to

1436
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: read some of the links that we used to research,

1437
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 1: or you want to download the episode, or you already

1438
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: know where to download it, you don't need that, awesome, Um,

1439
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 1: you can go ahead and check out our website. That

1440
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 1: website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. We're on iTunes,

1441
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 1: as you know, leave us a comment, ratings, subscribe, stream

1442
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: us anywhere, leave us comments there. I guess too, that's

1443
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,720
Speaker 1: a thing, right cool. We're on social media. You can

1444
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at Thinking Sideways. We've got Facebook,

1445
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 1: the group and the page, and we have a subreddit. Um,

1446
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 1: forget about that thing. Yeah, I know, I know you do.

1447
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 1: Everybody does. It's really really, it's very sad. You can

1448
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 1: send us an email if you have something to add

1449
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 1: or suggestions, or I just want to say, hey, just

1450
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 1: want to tell us how awesome we are. Yep. That

1451
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: email addresses Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com, and

1452
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: we're on Patreon. If you feel like uh supporting the show,

1453
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: you should head over to Patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways.

1454
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 1: Um and thanks. That having been said, I'm going to

1455
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 1: get out of here with three of us are going

1456
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 1: to disappear. How many weeks we're in the month of

1457
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:05,800
Speaker 1: October four plus? I just realized we screwed up. There

1458
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 1: are five Thursdays in this month, alright, five episodes, five

1459
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: episodes of Most Wanted. That's fine, Bye everybody, By guys,