1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: so great to have you here, back for another episode. 7 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: As we, of course break down the psychology of our twenties. 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: Sometimes we have these episodes where I just go I 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: cannot believe we have never spoken about this before. We 10 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: are like three hundred, maybe even four hundred episodes in 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: and we have never spoken about this topic. Today, we're 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: going to talk about friendship trios we know from countless 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: studies and even so many episodes that we've done, and 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: just how important our friends are, not just for our 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: mental health but for our physical longevity even But what 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: kind of happens, what changes when it's not just you 17 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: and another best friend and it's not a huge friendship 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: group either. It's like this weird middle ground three people 19 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: the trio that can get And I know we've seen 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: examples of this, like really complicated, not just because friendships 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: are in themselves complicated, but because of this unique platonic 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: triangle dynamic, it can be a beautiful one. You know, 23 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: you get to call two people your best friend. It 24 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: can also get really really messy. One person always kind 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: of made me feel slightly left behind or distant or 26 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: like despare. There are moments of jealousy and resentment, and 27 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: I guess it's really easy to see why. It's not 28 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: just two people navigating and bouncing their emotions between each other. Suddenly, 29 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: it's like almost a bit of a project to keep 30 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: three different bonds going at once, plus the entire friendship 31 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: of the three of you at a hole. This is 32 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: a perfect segue into a story that inspired this episode 33 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: from a listener who wrote in with an experience exactly 34 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: like this looking for some advice, and I asked her 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: can I share this story for this episode and she 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: said yes please. So this was her message, I need 37 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: some advice on whether it's time for me to leave 38 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: my toxic friendship trio. Some context, Me and my best 39 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: friends have known each other since we were eight years old. 40 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: We're twenty four now. We all went to college together, 41 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: and we've obviously had our ups and downs, but always 42 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: remained thick friends. Throughout it all, we even dated best friends. 43 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: My friends were bridesmaids at my sister's wedding. It has 44 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: kind of been a fairy tale friend situation in many 45 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: respects until last month. Last month, me and one of 46 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: my friends had a small falling out after she showed 47 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: up two hours late to my birthday dinner to go 48 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: on a date with a guy, A second date, might 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: I add. I expressed I was angry, and then she 50 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: proceeded to not talk to me for three days, but 51 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: did speak to our other friend. We semi made up, 52 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: but she didn't exactly apologize. And then flash forward to 53 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: last weekend. I call up the girls to see what 54 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: their Saturday plans are, and the friend who remained neutral 55 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: tells me that they are on a trip together with 56 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: two of our other friends in New York City and 57 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: they had simply forgotten to tell me. I was devastated. 58 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: We do literally everything together and they know that going 59 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: to New York was a dream of mine since even 60 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: before we met they said they made the plans. In 61 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: the three days, me and my other friend were fighting. 62 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: I hate to admit it, but I lost my call 63 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: and we haven't spoken since. I can tell I've been 64 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: blocked from seeing their Instagram stories and I'm feeling so lost, angry, devastated, 65 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: and hurt. Please any advice? Am I in the wrong? 66 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: Or how do I salvage this friendship? I think this 67 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: dynamic is the perfect example of what we're going to 68 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: talk about today, and I think to give this listen 69 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of advice to begin with, like your 70 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: reaction to both those situations of firstly your friend not 71 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: showing up to dinner and then this trip, like that's 72 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: fair to me? The exclusion, like, honestly at this point 73 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: feels deliberate, especially since you said you'd made up in 74 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: the meantime, you said you'd been talking to them in 75 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: the meantime, and you are the one who was originally 76 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: offended or I guess like wronged. I think it's also 77 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: hard because listening to that, like your friend saying, we 78 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: just forgot to tell you. How can you forget to 79 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: tell someone, let alone your best friend, that you're on 80 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: a plane to their dream city without them when you 81 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: otherwise talk like every single day. I think your frustration 82 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: is totally justified, and you need to probably seriously consider 83 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: what kind of apology you want that you need that 84 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: you deserve and whether you are willing to be the 85 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: one who instigates that and reaches out or who waits. 86 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 1: And I definitely think that at the very bare minimum, 87 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: you need to send like a full kind of dear John, 88 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: like hard on your sleeve message of like I'm really hurt. 89 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: And yes, my reaction may not have been neat and tidy, 90 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: but it's because of how deeply I feel about you guys, 91 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: and about our bond and our friendship, and also about 92 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: the situation. I do feel like, you know, you need 93 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: a proper apology, and can those people give you that 94 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: We're going to talk through. We're going to talk through 95 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: that in this episode. Like that is my most basic, 96 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: in like very very minor advice to you. But I 97 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: think the concepts in the psychology we're going to discuss 98 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: as we go further into this episode are probably going 99 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: to answer this question for you. Are you going to 100 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: be able to move forward? What is the dynamic of 101 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: the friendship so far or as it is now? And 102 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: is it worth salvaging. We're going to discuss what it 103 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: really means to be in a friendship trio, the role 104 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: of the third wheel, how people often choose a specific 105 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: role in a friendship trio, and how those roles evolve 106 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: over time, and most importantly, how to avoid and how 107 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: to deal with conflict when it inevitably comes up. So, 108 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: without further ado, let's get into it. Honestly, friendship trios, 109 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: I think they're pretty special. And I know, like that 110 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 1: probably doesn't sound honest given the story we just heard. 111 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: But when we look at the pros just for a second, 112 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: you know, you basically get two best friends. It works 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: really nicely on a practical level, Like if one friend 114 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: is burnt out out or if one friend is busy 115 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 1: or going through it, there's double the support, but also 116 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: double the options, double like the people to hang out with. 117 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: Arguably it's more fun. There's more personality, strengths, perspectives, more 118 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: things to kind of contribute to your worldview. The in 119 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: jokes are also, like, arguably a lot better as well, 120 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: because there's more shared And something I don't hear people 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,119 Speaker 1: talk about a lot is there's something uniquely affirming about 122 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: watching your two best friends love each other the way 123 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: that you love them. You know, it's one thing to 124 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: know that you think somebody else is wonderful, and it's 125 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: another thing to see that mirrored back by someone else 126 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: you also deeply care about. So they do have the 127 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: potential to be these amazing like ecosystems of friendship, but 128 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: I think they are sabotaged by a few basic things. 129 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: I will say, most of the psychological research on close 130 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: friendships or close relationships that you will come across is 131 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: about diads, so pairs of people, best friends, romantic partners, 132 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: you and one other. The sociologist George Simmel in the 133 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, he was actually one of the first 134 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: to say, like, hang on, what about a triad? What 135 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: about a group of three? That isn't the same dynamic 136 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: as a diad plus an extra person thrown in there? 137 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: The relationship behaves very differently because there are three people. 138 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: And symbol focused a lot on how the exact number 139 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: of people within a relationship and a friendship just completely 140 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: changes the dynamic of the relationship itself in a really 141 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: unique way, like a chemical reaction in a diad. You know, 142 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: this is the most intimate kind of relationship or friendship 143 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: you can have. It's also the most fragile. You know, 144 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: if one person walks away, the relationship simply ceases to exist. 145 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: You know, it is reliant on both of you choosing 146 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: to be in the friendship and to show up and 147 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: to make it work. All the attention, all the conflicts, 148 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: the repair, the reassurance moves directly between the two of you, 149 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: So there's kind of nowhere to hide. There's no buffer 150 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: in a diad. Also, there is no majority, like it's 151 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: just two individuals who need to work things out as 152 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: people in a triad. However, a group of three, the 153 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: group can actually survive the partial withdrawal of one member, 154 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: like the relationship between any two people is supported by 155 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: the third person, but can exist by itself. And this 156 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: makes the entire group kind of stable and supposedly, according 157 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: to the research, a lot harder to break. You know, 158 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: if two friends argue, the third person can step in 159 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: and be a mediator, or if one person leaves, the 160 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: remaining two can continue the group. Social network researchers, particularly 161 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: two researchers, Canneth Go and David Crackhart, they explore this 162 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: with their idea of Surmelian ties. And this is basically 163 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: a close social tie that is embedded completely within a 164 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: three person network. We form a Similian tie when two 165 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: people have a strong and mutual relationship with each other, 166 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: and they also have a strong and mutual relationship with 167 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: a third person who they have in common. What comes 168 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: out of that is actually four relationships, not just one. 169 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: When you have two people in a relationship, you have 170 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: one relationship. When you have three people in a friendship, 171 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: you actually have four. So you might be very close 172 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: to friend A, who is friends with friend B, who 173 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: then becomes your friend your C. This creates an AB 174 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: BC and C A relationship, but also an ABC relationship 175 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: within one small group. Four relationships for three people and 176 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: for one larger relationship, and that's incredibly complex. Something in 177 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: interesting that actually occurs in friendship trios is that every 178 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 1: member typically takes on their own unique role. I think 179 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: there are three main roles in every friendship trio. This 180 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily scientific, it's just something I've noticed by talking 181 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: to people in my own life and with my researcher. 182 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: The first is the bridge builder. Every single friendship trio 183 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: has an organizer, has the center of command. They have 184 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: this one person whose kind of calendar is like the 185 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: guiding force of the friendship. They start the group chats, 186 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: they remember the birthdays, they buy the football tickets, they 187 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: book dinner. They tend to do a lot of like 188 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: the practical maintenance that keeps these really intimate ties active 189 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: and sustained. Then there is the emotional anchor. This is 190 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: the person who everyone seems to turn to when things 191 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: are tricky. They are very emotive, They're a deep feeler, 192 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: They're an advice giver. They also offer end up being 193 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: the mediator, the group mediator. I've noticed that the one 194 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: who manages the emotions of the group is normally the 195 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: one that's most likely to fall between the other two 196 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: parties and is most likely to have to really deal 197 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: with other people snarkling about the other person and dealing 198 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: with the other people venting about the other person in 199 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: the group. They might not do a lot of the 200 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: practical load, they do a lot of the emotional loads. 201 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: So there's upsides and downsides with each role. The third 202 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: role I often see is what I call the wild 203 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: card or the energy bringer. These are the people that 204 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: are just essentially the chaos like. They always have an 205 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: outrageous story, they always make the last minute plans, they 206 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: always have the unhinged voice. Notes. They might be less 207 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: practically consistent, less emotionally consistent, but they are a source 208 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: of what I would say is a huge amount of 209 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: the groups on spontaneity, maybe even entertainment. Now, of course, 210 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: these roles can overlap. The organizer might also be the 211 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: emotional anchor. The wild card might also be the bridge 212 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: builder or the organizer. In a healthy trio, these roles 213 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: are actually shared around, so there isn't one person doing 214 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: all the emotional work all the time or all the 215 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: planning all the time. But we tend to kind of 216 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: fall into if you're in a friendship trio, one of 217 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: these three groups. And this dynamic can explain why trios 218 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: can actually feel so comforting when they are working, because 219 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: you know everybody is kind of playing their part. It 220 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: also kind of explains why small changes can feel really impactful, 221 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: because you know, this entire social equilibrium will start to 222 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: feel imbalanced if one person is angry or frustrated and 223 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: stops playing their role. You know, if the planner suddenly 224 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: stops planning, things are gonna fall apart. If the energy 225 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: giver gives too much chaos, everybody else is gonna be frustrated. 226 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: If the emotional anchor feels exhausted and doesn't feel supported, themselves. 227 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: They're gonna stop wanting to be somebody that the other 228 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: people can come to. The hardest part and the thing 229 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: I think damages friendship trios the most is that dynamic 230 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: when a minor like frustration emerges and it starts to 231 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: impact how every single member starts to see each other. Specifically, 232 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: when two people start to hang out without a third 233 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: like the story we heard at the beginning, This is 234 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: like the thing that I think destroys most friendship trios. 235 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: That's where the feeling of being the third wheel starts 236 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: to creep in. And this is like make or break. 237 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: This is when I think we see them collapse. I'm 238 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: gonna explain exactly why stick around to hear about it 239 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: will be right back after this short break. Third wheel. 240 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: The term third wheel, it's honestly such a brutal phrase, 241 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: but it captures a feeling I think most people recognize. 242 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: It is this sense of being there but not actually 243 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: feeling wanted, not feeling needed in a situation like the 244 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: third wheel of a bike, Like we all know the 245 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: bike can function just with two. The third wheel knows 246 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: the bike doesn't need it. What we're really describing, though, 247 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: is social ostracism. That feeling of being ignored, excluded, or 248 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: kind of sidelined out of a social group. There has 249 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: been actual research on what this does to us psychologically, 250 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: mainly by one American researcher called Kipling Williams. He and 251 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: his colleagues based created this experimental condition called cyberball. It's 252 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: become very well known. This is what cyberball is. It's 253 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: an experiment or experimental condition where participants are put into 254 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: a group and they're told to throw the ball back 255 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: and forth with two or three other people, either online 256 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: or in person. They could be in a room. They 257 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: could also be doing it as like a video game. 258 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: At first, they toss it to you, and you toss 259 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: it back to them, and everybody's getting a bit of 260 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: the ball. Then in this experimental condition, without explanation, all 261 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: the other players just stop throwing to you, the other 262 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: two people, the other three people. What you don't know 263 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: is that they're impostors. The game carries on. You are 264 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: never thrown the ball again. Like even talking about that 265 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: feels like a school sports typemare. But this study is 266 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: really important in seeing the effects of being left out. 267 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: And there was a meta analysis of I think like 268 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty specific cyberball studies. I think there 269 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: was like twelve thousand participants in these studies overall, which 270 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: found that even this small artificial exclusion created a really 271 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: large mental effect. Participants felt panicked, they got angry, they 272 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: started crying, they got confused. Sometimes they even reported like 273 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: literal physical pain. And this effect, this deeply psychological effect. 274 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: This happens even though there was no big drama, nobody 275 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: was hurt, there was no insults. Just quietly being left 276 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: out was enough to have a significant impact on these people. 277 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: Let's bring that back to the trio to our friend 278 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode. If this reaction in 279 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: this cyberball game happens with strangers who you don't know 280 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: at all, no wonder you're feeling so upset when it's 281 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: your best friends and they metaphorically stopped past the ball 282 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: to you. The initial pain of exclusion, like, that's just 283 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: the first layer, right. The second layer is the self 284 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: interrogation that comes with that. You could also call this 285 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: like social specific rumination. But it's when you've been excluded 286 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: and then you start to look for an explanation within 287 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: your own behavior, so you start to replay conversations, you 288 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: blame yourself, You're scanning all your memories for what went wrong. 289 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: You're hyper analyzing your behavior. From an evolutionary standpoint, this 290 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: might make perfect sense, even though it's really frustrating. You 291 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: basically want to know where you went wrong and how 292 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: you can fix it. For most of human history, your 293 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: survival depended on being part of a small group of food, 294 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: for protection, childcare information. Being socially excluded meant you would 295 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: have less access to those resources, less protection, and a 296 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: higher chance of literally dying. So it makes sense for 297 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: natural selection to kind of build a brain that is 298 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: hyper sensitive to any signs of rejection, especially in a group, 299 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: and even long before actual abandonment happens. In the nineteen 300 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: ninety five paper titled need to Belong It's one of 301 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: our Essential Readings, the authors argue that belonging and feeling 302 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: seen and included is just as fundamental as shelter, as security, 303 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: as warmth. A lack of belonging is linked to literal 304 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: health problems, increased risk of getting dementia, increased risk of 305 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: getting sick more often, virus susceptibility. So researchers later took 306 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: this further, and they argued that social exclusion is process 307 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: using the same systems in our brain that handle physical pain. Basically, 308 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: evolution has co opted the pain system to ensure that 309 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: we pay attention to threats to our sense of belonging 310 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: and to being excluded. Feeling like the third wheel and 311 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: having a deeply painful reaction to that is not stupid. 312 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: You are not overreacting. There is scientific evidence here that 313 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: this is like, this sucks like Biologically your body is 314 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: primed to push back against this, and it really does, 315 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: like it hurts us on a physical level. I think 316 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: it gets even more complicated with three people rather than 317 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: with the big group, because you now have the minimum 318 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: number you need for alliances. In conflict situations, there is 319 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: always going to be an odd one out, or when 320 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: people are disagreeing, there's always going to be somebody who's 321 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: left out. You can't split three evenly simple maths. Either 322 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: the group splits three ways or more often two pair off. 323 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: And this is when the fact that there are three 324 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: of you and there is an quote unquote spare or 325 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: inn for a bonus member at any given time, that 326 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: is when this becomes a deeper unraveling. For dynamics like 327 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: this There is a twenty twenty one paper literally called 328 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: Friendship Jealousy Tools for Maintaining Friendships in the face of 329 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: Third Party Threats that was published in I think it 330 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: was the Journal of must have been the Journal of 331 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: Social Psychology. And what this paper shows so well is 332 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: how when there is a third person, when you can 333 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: see the threat of you being replaced, you act differently. 334 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: Across eleven studies, research has found that often friendship jealousy 335 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 1: is uniquely triggered not just by the idea that your 336 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: friend might not like you anymore, could be taken away, 337 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: but by third party threats. So not just the idea 338 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: of losing your friend, but losing them to someone else 339 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: is more painful, and it makes us especially sensitive to 340 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: cues of being replaced by the third person. In the frenchhip, 341 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: it because we can see this person. We can literally 342 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: we know that this person is a nice person, we 343 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: know that these people have a good bond. It's very 344 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: easy for us to imagine them existing and going on 345 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: without us. Friendship triers, they just make this so apparent, 346 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: and so there is this additional level of competition around 347 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: who is getting the most contact time, who is getting 348 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: the most enthusiasm. Who is everybody hanging out with more 349 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: or less? That kind of lingers, and it motivates what 350 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: we call friendship guarding behaviors, these efforts to protect or 351 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: keep the friendship between you and the one other person 352 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: safe when you perceive that the other person, the third person, 353 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: is trying to take them from you. And how this 354 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: manifests is again back to those behaviors. Suddenly that you're 355 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: in Now that you're insecure, you stop telling the other 356 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: person about your plans, You stop including them, you stop 357 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: talking to them even though you know what's wrong, even 358 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: though you love them, when you feel a sense of threat. 359 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just how we naturally behave. And underneath all 360 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: of this is this like quieter I think, running calculation 361 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: about fairness. Here's where I'm going to introduce one final 362 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: framework here to show why friendship triers can be so difficult. 363 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: It is called the equity framework of relationships. This framework 364 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: was developed by the researchers Elaine Hatfield and Susan Spretcher, 365 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: and they suggested that in close relationships, we care a 366 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: lot about the balance between what we give so time, care, love, money, 367 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: even and what we get support, appreciation, reliability, gratitude back, 368 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: especially when there are other people involved in that same relationship. 369 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: When that balance feels off, So when you feel like 370 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: you're not getting the same amount of that person who's 371 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: not getting the same matter as this person who's giving 372 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: that person more, This ultimately leads to that fear about 373 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: again being replaced. It leads to relationship guarding behaviors, It 374 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: leads to ostracism. That is what contributes to friendship breakdown. 375 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: It's all interconnected and it all comes back to this 376 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: deep human desire. We want to feel important, we want 377 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: to feel seen, we want to feel like we matter 378 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: in relationships. Is that just harder when you have a 379 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: friendship trio? Is it just impossible to ever equally balance 380 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: that just because of the nature or maybe the number 381 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: of the friendship? Is that the outcome here? Like, do 382 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: we just need to kill off the friendship tri or 383 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: do we just like not have social technology yet to 384 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: have friendship triers? Personally? I actually don't think so. I 385 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: know I've been quite pessimistic. I don't think so. I 386 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: want to be optimistic here myself here, Like I'm in 387 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: a really healthy, fun fulfilling friendship trio. I have been 388 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: for like almost four years, so I want to believe 389 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: that it's possible. But I think some of the reasons 390 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: I do think it works come down to how that 391 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: friendship operates and what I've kind of learned from also 392 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: some of the mistakes we've made and the ways that 393 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: we've kind of made the trio as healthy as possible, 394 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: and I want to kind of share what those are 395 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: with you guys who are in a friendship trio and 396 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: wanting to make sure that like you've still got your 397 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: friends in five years, or that you guys don't have 398 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: some like awful, heinous friendship breakup. So my first tip 399 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: or way that I think friendship trios work is when 400 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: you are able to acknowledge that sometimes you are just 401 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: going to be jealous, and sometimes what's worse is that 402 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: jealousy is maybe going to be justified. A healthy trio 403 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: is not one where nobody ever feels left out. You know, 404 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: hopefully you feel that way ninety five percent of the time, 405 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: but there are gonna be times where it's just unavoidable. 406 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: Even if it is not true, somebody might just perceive 407 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: that they are being left out, or that they weren't invited, 408 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: or that there was some hidden conversation happening even if 409 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: it's not true, and a healthy trio is one where 410 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: those feelings are survivable because you a feel a deep 411 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: sense of trust in the other people that they're not 412 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: doing that to you, and b because you maintain direct 413 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: communication rather than simply relying on the mediator to manage communication, 414 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: or rather than just not saying anything at all and 415 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: expecting it to be okay and for somebody to read 416 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: your mind. You know what I think is a huge 417 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: sign of true emotional maturity and frontal lobe development, especially 418 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: in our twenties, It is not being afraid of conflict 419 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: because you know that avoiding it hurts everybody more. Through 420 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: a practical level, maybe you've even learned that lesson the 421 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: hard way a few times. One of the easiest traps 422 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: that trios slide into is that they have side conversations 423 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: rather than shared ones. It definitely feels safer in the 424 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: moment to be like, oh my god, this person is 425 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: really annoying me. She really pissed me off when she 426 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: did that. But over time, little alliances do start to form. 427 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: People start second guessing what's being said about them when 428 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: they're not there. You start to think, like, if I'm 429 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: having those conversations with that person, they're probably having those 430 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: conversations about me, and so there's like this low level paranoia. Basically, 431 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: what we are describing here is the stage right before resentment, 432 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,239 Speaker 1: and we know from many key leading relationship institutes and 433 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: experts that resentment erodes relationships faster than probably nothing else. 434 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: Whatever your impulse is to shove it down, to ignore it, 435 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: you have to fight against that impulse. You have to 436 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: swallow your pride, and you have to say something because 437 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: two options come out of that. A you get through 438 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: it unharmed, You patch it up, you understand each other better. 439 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: Now I really don't think you know somebody, especially a friend, 440 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: until you've had a first fight. And so it's kind 441 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: of a rite of passage. You guys get through it 442 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: and it's amazing. Or B you say something and you realize, 443 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,959 Speaker 1: like this person was never going to be able to 444 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: survive tough times with me anyways, And I can stop 445 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: tiptoeing like this was never gonna work because here is 446 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: this opportunity we have to work through it, and they're 447 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: not taking it. So I think, if nothing else, and 448 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: this is going to sound so barbaric. But if nothing else, 449 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: it's efficient. It's just purely efficient to talk to people 450 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: about your problems. Okay, so we are going to take 451 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: one more short break here before we get into my 452 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: final three tips for maintaining friendship trios. The next one, 453 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: by the way, is probably the most important of them all. 454 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: To stay with us. The next tip I have that 455 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: I really recommend for flourishing friendship trios. It's like a 456 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: tongue twister. Flourishing friendship trios. That's not that bad. It's 457 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: allowing the central or core person to change over time. 458 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: Trios are naturally dynamically. We've talked about these roles. There 459 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: will be phases when one person is more central, whether 460 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: that is because they are I don't know, going through 461 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: a breakup, or because they're, you know, the ones who 462 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: are organizing everything, or I don't know, like maybe they're 463 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: like they're getting married, or they're the ones with like 464 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: the most energy at the time. Transitioning this over time 465 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: and letting people flow into different roles and flow into 466 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: like different seasons and be the one that takes on 467 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: more and be the one that takes on less, I 468 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: think prevents the resentment creeping in when you feel like 469 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: you always have to show up in a certain way. 470 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: If you feel like this is kind of weird and 471 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: you're like, wait, things are changing. Wait this person is 472 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: just making isn't making as many plans like blah blah blah, 473 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: maybe it is your time to step into that role yourself. 474 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: It is easy to see change as this thing that 475 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: is like life ending threatening is going to ruin the friendship. 476 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: But if nothing major or dramatic has happened, it may 477 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: be that, like you're just resettling into a new a 478 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: new way of leading to each other, or just your 479 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: new roles. So accept that change in your friendship is 480 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: going to happen and just see how things fit. It's 481 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: like romantic relationships. People need to take turns being different 482 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: versions of themselves in the relationship. It is super normal, 483 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: So you have to accept that, just like you have 484 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: to accept jealousy. My third tip might sound a little 485 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: bit counterintuitive at first, but I cannot also stress the 486 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: importance enough of investing in the individual friendships. First, you 487 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: might hear me say that and be like, wait, hold up, 488 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: aren't we talking about how friendship trios always collapse because 489 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: people feel left out? Yes, sometimes. But if we think 490 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: back to the concept of Similian ties, the trio was 491 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: built on three strong connections plus the fourth big one. 492 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: If these individual cans aren't well maintained, if you and 493 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: the other person separately don't know each other or aren't 494 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: really hanging out with each other well enough, the trio 495 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,719 Speaker 1: is going to start to weaken simply because the ties 496 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: that make it up are weak as well. Obviously, don't 497 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: take a private, bloody trip to New York and not 498 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: tell the other person, because that's insane. But like go 499 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: and grab coffee just with one friend sometimes, or go 500 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: for long walks just with the other friend. It also 501 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: stops you from becoming dependent on one person to carry 502 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: the dynamic. If you're close to both people and the group, 503 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: then this is good practice. It's not weird. It shouldn't 504 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: be uncomfortable when one of you is anavailable or when 505 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: one of you just wants to do something with the 506 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: other person. What it does mean, though, is that you've 507 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: also you've got to be okay with your friends doing 508 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: stuff without you from time to time. Because back to 509 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: that big TA word, like you trust that you also 510 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: have spaces where you are central to and each relationship 511 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: is equally as strong as the next one. Really like 512 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: it's a trust exercise. We're coming back to this again 513 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: and again. At the end of the day, you have 514 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: to know in your deepestive hearts that these people love you. 515 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: They're not going to leave you out. Your friendship can 516 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: survive change. Now, to wrap up this episode, let's return 517 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: to the dilemma at the beginning and what happens if 518 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: none of this is working. Your friendship is just falling apart. 519 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: It is in like a tail spin, like it is 520 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: going down. What do we do then? What do we do? 521 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: And we're I'm sure if we want to continue the 522 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: friendship trio or the friendship singular. My advice is for 523 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: this person again, but also for all situations like this 524 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: in general. When you find yourself in a dynamic like 525 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: this where something is happened, as situation has occurred, please 526 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: talk about it as quickly as possible. Do not ignore 527 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: that advice. Do not let an emotional owned fester if 528 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: it has gotten to that point where, like you, guys 529 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 1: are rowed a stalemate. Be the bigger person and reach out. 530 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: And I know you probably don't want to hear that. 531 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: You probably hate hearing that. But really the question is 532 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: this Is this friendship worth it to you? Is it 533 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: worth saving? How long have you been friends? Have you 534 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: made similar mistakes in the past and been forgiven. Is 535 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: this something I think that we can recover from. It 536 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a mutual decision, but if you decide, like, hey, yeah, 537 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: I actually love this person, I'm gonna regret not trying 538 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: to fix this. I care about them enough to do 539 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: the hard thing. You've got to follow that instinct, and 540 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: you've got to do it. Prepare to be honest, go 541 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: in it with like your heart on your sleeve. But 542 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: I think you cannot fix and you cannot get out 543 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: of this if things aren't in the open. You need 544 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: to seriously be like, this sucked and I am really upset, 545 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna let you guys also deal with the 546 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: consequences of your action through my emotions. I do want 547 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: some kind of apology, I do want some kind of acknowledgment, 548 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that we can't get over this. 549 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: Everybody in this situation, and I think this is what 550 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: friendship truths and friendships in general, every single one of 551 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: them will require this. At some point, somebody needs to 552 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: swallow their pride. And if they do acknowledge it and 553 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: they sincerely apologize, don't forgive them straight away. Go away 554 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: for a few days. See how you feel. Has that 555 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: apology helped, What kind of changes are you expecting? What 556 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: is going to be the line you don't want crossed? 557 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: And move on from there. If they don't apologize, if 558 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: the radio silence continues, if they don't take accountability, I'm sorry, 559 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: but I just don't think it's in your hands anymore. 560 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: And I think that's nice that you know you tried. 561 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: You were the one who was the bigger person. Maybe 562 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: you just need to let the friendship rest for a bit. 563 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: Nobody else can draw that line for you. But I 564 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: think some red flags that often signal that the trio 565 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: is doing more harm than good are when you do 566 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: feel chronically left out. You do feel really anxious rather 567 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: than excited or happy before seeing them after spending time together. 568 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: As well, you know you regularly leave feeling smaller than 569 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: when you arrived. You feel ganged up on, you feel belittled, 570 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: you feel isolated. You might also feel kind of ashamed 571 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: or over stimulated, like you really have to put a 572 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,240 Speaker 1: lot of energy into this rather than just seeing your friends. 573 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: And I think the biggest sign that the friendship is 574 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: done is when you just don't like who you are 575 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: when you shop up with the group, maybe because it 576 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: is making you feel defensive or jealous or needy. I 577 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: think a lot of this is because often when we 578 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,959 Speaker 1: know something is wrong, we can sense it. Know people 579 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: are trying to exclude us, We can sense it, and 580 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: so we become very hyper vigilant out of fear, and 581 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: that just makes us feel all these kinds of really 582 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: irritated emotions to do with the friendship trio that just 583 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: like bleeds in and destroys everything. If this friendship is 584 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: making you feel exhausted rather than later, it's simply not 585 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: worth it. And there will be more people out there 586 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: who value you and value your time and will be 587 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: receptive to you now that you have more time for them, 588 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: rather than for these people that might not care about you. 589 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: The practical side of leaving can be really difficult. You know, 590 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: you often feel like you're losing two friendships at once, 591 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: plus the friendship of the three of you, and I 592 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: feel for you and I'm really sorry. It doesn't mean 593 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: the door is closed forever. What I would say is, 594 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: if you find yourself in this situation, try not to ghost. 595 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: Don't just disappear and stop replying to your friends, Like 596 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: it sounds like our listener's friends are doing to her. 597 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: I know that that might be tempting, and I think 598 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: throughout this conversation there's been obvious easy roots that we 599 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: can take. But you don't want to give people ammunition 600 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: to say that you didn't try, or say that it 601 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: was your fault. You don't want to give people ammunition 602 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: to justify shitty behavior. The best you can do now 603 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: is focus on leaving with the knowledge I did what 604 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: I could. I tried. There are no good and bad guys, 605 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: but I'm definitely trying my hardest to be good in 606 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: this situation. To the people I love, don't be too 607 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: hard on yourself, Like again, you did your best. I 608 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: will also say this one final word of advice. Their 609 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: decisions and their actions will not be without remorse. If 610 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: you've found a deeply important friendship tree or otherwise exploding. 611 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: Like not to sound threatening, but they will regret it. 612 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: They will someday in the future. They are going to 613 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: think about you, and they're going to think about the 614 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: memories you're You're like, you're probably contemplating as well right now, 615 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: and they're going to say to themselves like, oh my god, 616 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: I really missed that person. I think I really screwed 617 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: that up. Sometimes what makes these situations hard is because 618 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: we start to drive ourselves crazy thinking like did they 619 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: ever even care about me? Did I waste all this time? 620 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: Kind of like we do with an X, And they do, 621 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: and they did, and they will continue to care about you. 622 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: It's up to you whether you want to leave the 623 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: door open. I think that you should. I think there's 624 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: always chances for redemption in even if it's not tomorrow, 625 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: if it's in ten years, or at least for reminiscing. 626 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope that 627 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: it was informative and is helping you if you're in 628 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: a hard time or situation like this. Our question for today, 629 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: If you have made it this far, thank you for listening, 630 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for being a loyal listener. In the comments below, 631 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: what is your favorite depiction of good friendship in a 632 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 1: movie or TV show? I'll go first minus Goodwill Hunting 633 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: for sure, all time favorite movie depicting friendship, but drop 634 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 1: yours below make sure you're also following us on Instagram 635 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you are listening. If you're subscribed, that's amazing. 636 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: If you're not, what are you doing? Give us a 637 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: five star review if you feel called to do so, 638 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: and thank you, as always to our research of Libby 639 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: Colbert for her contributions to this episode. She is marvelous. 640 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what we would do without her. Until 641 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, 642 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: and we will talk very very soon