1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Hey, Bessie's Hello Sunshine Today on the bright Side. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 2: It's an all new shelf Life we're diving into. Isila, 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: the February pick for Ese's Book Club, written by acclaimed 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,159 Speaker 2: author Allegra Goodman. This gripping feminist survival story, set in 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 2: the sixteenth century on a remote island in Quebec, is 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: one you don't want to miss. 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 3: It's Thursday, February twenty seven. 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 2: I'm Simone Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 2: bright Side from Hello. 10 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: Sunshine Today on shelf Life. Y'all, we are talking to 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 3: author Allegra Goodman. Her novel Isla is Reese's book Club 12 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 3: selection for February. Allegra is a best selling author whose 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 3: other books include Sam the Chalk Artist, Intuition, The Cookbook Collector, 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 3: Paradise Park, and Catterskill Falls, which was a finalist for 15 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 3: the National Book Award. 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: Her latest book, is Isla, is her first foray into 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: historical fiction. It's actually based on a true story of 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: a woman in sixteenth century France, Marguerite de la Roque. 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: She's a real person who sailed to New France now 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: Canada in fifteen forty two. She was marooned on a 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: Subarctic island in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence. And then 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: the author, Aligra Goodman, took her story and just ran 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: with it, creating a fictional account of what happened to 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: her and how she survived. 25 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 3: And honestly, what amazes me about this whole story is 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 3: that this book has been twenty years in the making. 27 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: I mean that's when she first discovered Marguerite and her 28 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: story and it kind of planted the seed of an 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 3: idea in her mind. And now we get to talk 30 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: to her all about the finished product Isila. So let's 31 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 3: bring her in. Allegra, Welcome to the bright Side. Oh, 32 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 3: thank you, We're so happy to have you. So, Isla, 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 3: is this impressive work of historical fiction. And I'm so 34 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 3: curious about the inspiration for this book, especially your protagonist Marguerite. 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: So how did you originally come across her? And will 36 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 3: you tell us a little bit about what fastd you 37 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 3: about Marguerite's life? 38 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 4: Yes, of course, So I came across her more than 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 4: twenty years ago on a road trip that my family 40 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 4: took up from Cambridge up to Montreal. And we have 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 4: four kids and at the time they were ten, seven, three, 42 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 4: and zero. We have three boys, and then the zero 43 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 4: year old was our newborn daughter. I'm still not sure 44 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 4: why I agreed to go on this trip. Our baby 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 4: was literally six weeks old. I went to the library 46 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 4: and took out a whole stack of books for children 47 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 4: about Canadian history because we were going to Canada, which 48 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 4: I thought I was going to read with the boys. 49 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 4: So we start driving. Needless to say, my sons have 50 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 4: zero interest in the books about Canadian history and they 51 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 4: read none of them. But I ended up reading all 52 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 4: of them because I was up all night nursing the baby. 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 4: So I would be like sitting up in bed, like 54 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 4: one after another reading these books. And one night in 55 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 4: bed in this hotel room, I was reading a book 56 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 4: about Jacques Cartier, the French explorer who sailed three times 57 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 4: to what they called New France in those days. And 58 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 4: this book was about his explorations, and it was like 59 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 4: his third exploration was in fifteen forty two, and there 60 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 4: was this discussion of his exploration, and then it said 61 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: accompanying him was a ship full of colonists who were 62 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 4: going to settle in the New World. And on this 63 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 4: ship was a young noblewoman named Marguerite Delaroche de Roberval, 64 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 4: who annoyed the commander so much that he marooned her 65 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 4: on an island and the Gulf of Saint Lawrence and 66 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 4: left her there. I should add this was in parentheses, 67 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 4: so it was like then it was like closed parentheses, 68 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 4: and then we went back to talking about Jacques Cartier's expedition. 69 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 3: So it was just this little afterthought, like, no big deal, 70 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: this girl got marooned on an island exactly, yeah, what so. 71 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 4: Often happens to women's history, I think literally in the parentheses. 72 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 4: So I was like, wait, wait, who is Marguerite? 73 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: Wait? 74 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 4: Why was she on the ship? What do you mean 75 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 4: annoyed the commander? What does she do to deserve getting 76 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 4: stuck on this deserted island in what I knew was 77 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 4: a subarctic climate? Did she survive? What happened to her? 78 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 4: And then but the author didn't come back to her. 79 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 4: He just went on. And at the time I thought, 80 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 4: I'm sitting there like holding this baby in bed with 81 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 4: this book, and I thought, this is such a great 82 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 4: topic or subject for a novel. This is fascinating. Did 83 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 4: this really happen? Then I thought, wait, that would be 84 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 4: really hard to write as historical novels in the sixteenth century, 85 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 4: I write contemporary stuff. This isn't me. This is stressing 86 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 4: me out. This whole idea is stressing me out. So 87 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 4: I put the idea aside for many years, and my 88 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 4: kids grew older, and I wrote a lot of other 89 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 4: books set in mostly the twentieth century and the twenty 90 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 4: first century. And then as my kids grew older, my 91 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 4: daughter the newborn, finally went off to college and I 92 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 4: finally had a lot more time. So I was working 93 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 4: on this contemporary novel, well called Sam, about this young 94 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 4: girl who's a boulderer in the twenty first century. And 95 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 4: I kept writing about her trying to solve problems on 96 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 4: these boulders where she was on the rock face, clawing 97 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 4: her way up to the top. And I started thinking 98 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 4: about Marguerite and how she was alone on this rocky 99 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,679 Speaker 4: island and trying to survive, and writing about Sam actually 100 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 4: brought me back to my interest in Marguerite, and I 101 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 4: started to try experimenting with telling her story at that point. 102 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: Okay, so what happens next, because I know you dive 103 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,239 Speaker 3: headfirst into research on Marguerite, right, what did you find 104 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: in that research. 105 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 4: So she was fairly well known in her lifetime in 106 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 4: France as a survivor. There are two accounts of her 107 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 4: while she was alive, contemporary accounts. One is by the 108 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 4: Queen of Navarre, who collected what she said were true 109 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: stories about people in a book which was published after 110 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 4: she died, called the Heptamerin. And these are like many stories, 111 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 4: and they're all pretty short. And the story of Marguerite 112 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 4: on her island is this, I think the sixty ninth 113 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 4: story in the collection, and she writes her account of 114 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 4: what she thinks, how she thinks Marguerite prevailed in the 115 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 4: wilderness and everything. But it's only about two pages long, 116 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 4: I should say, so it's very very short. And then 117 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 4: there's another account from her lifetime by a priest who 118 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 4: said that he interviewed her, but his account conflicts with 119 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 4: the Queen's story, and his is also very short. So 120 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 4: we got these two versions that don't match up, that 121 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 4: are all, but they're both very short. So in some 122 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 4: ways that's very challenging because there isn't a lot to 123 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 4: go on, But in other ways it's really an opportunity 124 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 4: for a novelist to just get in there and imagine 125 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 4: exactly what happened. So that's what I did well, Igrad. 126 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: The first line of any book is so important. It's 127 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: what draws people in. And I saw this great video 128 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 2: of you on the Reese's Book Club Instagram account where 129 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: you talked about writing thirty plus first sentences of this 130 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: book before landing on this one. So your first line 131 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: is I never knew my mother. She died the night 132 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: that I was born, and so we passed each other 133 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: in the dark. She left me her name Marguerite and 134 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: her ruby ring, but no memory of her. In that video, 135 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: you said, once you landed on that perfect first sentence, 136 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: you could hear the main character's voice in your head. 137 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: I'm dying to know how crafting that one line helped 138 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: with the character development. What did that set the stage for? 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 4: So actually, I have my notebook here that I used 140 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 4: to write these sentences, and they started out really clunky 141 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 4: and really wordy. You can I crossed out a ton 142 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 4: and there's pages of this. When I got to that sentence, 143 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 4: it was sort of distilled, and the thing that I 144 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 4: heard was the way she spoke. It was like the 145 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 4: cadence and the rhythm of her speech. So that at 146 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 4: the time, I was writing about this young girl who 147 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 4: lives now, and she talks like us, and her diction 148 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 4: is like us. Her word choice, her rhythms are like ours, right, 149 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 4: And in that sentence, I came upon this ever so 150 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 4: slightly more formal way of talking. It's a tiny, tiny 151 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: bit archaic. She would say upon the ground instead of 152 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 4: on the ground, just but very very subtle. And when 153 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 4: I heard those rhythms and those details that you just read, 154 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 4: I really heard her voice in my head, and I 155 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 4: knew from there it was sort of like getting that 156 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 4: tiny handhold on the rock that I could sort of 157 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 4: keep pulling myself up. 158 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: What do you think we learn about Marguerite through that 159 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: first line? To me, it's more than just the formality. 160 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, so we learn that she's an orphan, that she's 161 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 4: really alone, that she's on the one hand, incredibly privileged 162 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 4: she has she's left this jewel from her mother, she's 163 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 4: left this aristocratic name, but she has no parents to 164 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 4: protect her. She has no family around her. And then 165 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 4: she goes on to say in that paragraph, you know 166 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 4: she was surrounded by servants, but she doesn't have brothers 167 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 4: to protect her, which is much needed at that time 168 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 4: a young girl or a little girl, so you get 169 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: a sense of her situation. 170 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. 171 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: We'll be right back with Allegra Goodman. And we're back 172 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: with Allegra Goodman. I am still thinking about something that 173 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: Allegra said at the beginning of the conversation that I 174 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: cannot get out of my head, which is this idea 175 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 3: that this little girl was just written off by the 176 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 3: captain of the ship and was called annoying. And I 177 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 3: think about all the other women throughout history who were 178 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: written off and whose voices were silenced because they were 179 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 3: reduced down to one stereotype or one aspect of their personality. Allegra, 180 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: you took pieces of Marguerite's truth and you build on that, 181 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: and you crafted this entire story around her. We never 182 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: got a chance to hear her truth. What do you 183 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 3: think her truth is? 184 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 4: I think her truth is that she is the complex 185 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 4: survivor who is making her way in an incredibly difficult world. 186 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 4: And what we understand as readers when we're following her story, 187 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 4: it's an adventure story on the one hand, where she's 188 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 4: like just trying to physically survive. But it's also a 189 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 4: story of self discovery where she's discovering her power. When 190 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: she's on the island, she is in some ways in 191 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 4: a lot of danger. She could freeze to death, she 192 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 4: could be attacked by animals, Nobody could help her if 193 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 4: she got sick or wounded. But what she realizes on 194 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 4: the island is that she wasn't safe at home and 195 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 4: that in some ways on the island she's free as 196 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 4: she was not at home. It's not really till she 197 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 4: gets on the island that she starts to remake herself 198 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 4: and think about all of these things. So it's my 199 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 4: version of Robinson Crusoe, only with this woman. She's in 200 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 4: double jeopardy because she's a woman on the island has 201 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 4: to get back. 202 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 3: Will you bring up Robinson Crusoe. I have to ask 203 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: a bit further about your own relationship to this genre 204 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 3: of castaway stories. I know that you were raised in 205 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: Hawaii and you talked about being fascinated by novels like 206 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 3: Robinson Crusoe and Kidnapped growing up. 207 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 4: So how did your own identity. 208 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 3: As someone who grew up on an island shape your 209 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: desire to tell these kinds of stories. Yeah. 210 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 4: Ever since I was little, I was fascinated by stories 211 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 4: on islands because I lived on an island, and I 212 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: was also fascinated by stories. Of course, I grew up 213 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 4: in Honolulu, which is a fairly big city and a 214 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 4: populated island, and a beautiful island to boot and a 215 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 4: warm one. But I was fascinated by people who were 216 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 4: sort of castaway alone on an island, or you know, 217 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 4: really had to dig deep and figure everything out for themselves. 218 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 4: And the reason I was fascinated is because the island 219 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 4: was a little world of their own where they have 220 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 4: to create their own society. At some point, she says, 221 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 4: we were the rulers of our island and the subjects too. 222 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 4: We had to govern ourselves, and so they have to 223 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 4: remake their own society and rethink everything that they might 224 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 4: have learned before, and that process is exciting, and that 225 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 4: was what drew me to this. 226 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: It was pretty amazed to learn that this novel took 227 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: decades from the moment you first found Marguerite's name in 228 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: a book to completion. What was it about her in 229 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 2: this story that kept you engaged for so long? 230 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 4: I really saw it as kind of a classic epic, 231 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 4: only not an epic about a man, but an epic 232 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 4: about a woman, like an odyssey of a woman. And 233 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 4: that really tempted me as a writer. And also, just 234 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 4: as I said, the idea that she could be sort 235 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 4: of broken by her experience but then remake herself. That 236 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 4: to write about survival in this way, to write a 237 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 4: book that's an adventure story and a spiritual journey all 238 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 4: at once, that in the end, I couldn't resist doing that. 239 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 4: And you know, sometimes you pick a subject and sometimes 240 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 4: a subject picks you, and so I couldn't avoid writing 241 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 4: about it. So I will say the writing itself didn't 242 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 4: take twenty years. It just germinated in my imagination for 243 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 4: you know, twenty years. And it took me about three 244 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 4: years to write the book. 245 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: Did you ever come close to and excuse my bad 246 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: pun jumping ship, did you ever come close to abandoning 247 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: the project? 248 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 3: No? 249 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: Actually no, I always had faith that I was gonna 250 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 4: get her home. 251 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 2: We love it, you know, only think of these canonical 252 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 2: Castaway stories, so many of them focus on male protagonists 253 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: in the wilderness. Obviously, I think everybody is thinking of 254 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: the movie Castaway right now, and they're thinking of Tom 255 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 2: Hanks as we're talking as you thought about a castaway 256 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: story with a woman at the center. What choices did 257 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: you make to distinguish this as her experience different from 258 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: what we see with men. 259 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, first of all, I before she gets to 260 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 4: the island, and the first third of the book is 261 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 4: really we see where she comes from. We see that 262 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 4: she's a person who probably never even dressed herself at home. 263 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 4: She always was waited on by other people. She says, 264 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 4: I never touched a broom when she gets to the island, 265 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 4: and let alone use a knife or fired a gun, 266 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 4: or when hunting for food or any of those things. 267 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 4: So I was really interested in the contrast of this 268 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 4: very sheltered woman who is now on this island having 269 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 4: to learn to fend for herself and discovering that she 270 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 4: can do that. But even more crucially, the last third 271 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 4: of the book is in terms of her getting home, 272 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 4: and I hope this isn't a spoiler for people who 273 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 4: haven't finished. But when she gets home, she's not out 274 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 4: of danger. She's still in danger because she is a 275 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 4: woman in that society, and she's coming back and rags 276 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 4: with no money and no male protection. And that was 277 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 4: very interesting for me. To write. And that's a big 278 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 4: difference between her and somebody like Robinson Crusoe, who when 279 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 4: he gets home, he's fine, he can go back into 280 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 4: the import export business or whatever he was doing before, 281 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 4: because he's a white male who and everybody knows who 282 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 4: he is, and he will just finish off his life. 283 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 4: She comes back and she's in mortal danger and she 284 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 4: could easily have died just trying to get home once 285 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 4: she's in France, so she has to use all of 286 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 4: what she learned on the island in order to get 287 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 4: back to her house. 288 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: Every castaway movie or book that I read with a 289 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: male at the helm, I think a woman wouldn't make 290 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: that choice, or what would she do if she had 291 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: her period? Or like I just think of all of 292 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: these what ifs, Right, did all of these what ifs 293 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: come up for you? Like sort of these primal what ifs. 294 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 4: I mean, for one thing, she has to go through 295 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 4: a pregnancy and childbirth. Certainly a male castaway wouldn't have 296 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 4: to deal with that, and so arguably she goes through 297 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 4: much more than somebody like Robinson Cruso went through. When 298 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 4: she's on that island, no medical care. It's terrible nursing 299 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 4: a baby on the island. It's tough. 300 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 3: Well, it's so exciting to have a work of historical 301 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: fiction like this now in the canon, because I just 302 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: think there's so much opportunity to talk about female explorers 303 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: throughout history that we never read about, never grew up 304 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: reading about. I mean, we all know about Amelia Earhart, 305 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: but there are so many other women like Harriet Chalmers, Adams, 306 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: Gertrude Bell, like, there are so many stories that need 307 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: to be told. And I know that you spend a 308 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: lot of time in your career working in the contemporary 309 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: literary space, but has this what your appetite to tell 310 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 3: more historical fiction tales. 311 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 4: Totally, especially about women. I think that they're just as 312 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 4: you said, there's so many sort of untold stories or 313 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 4: overshadowed stories, or women in parentheses like the one like 314 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 4: Marguerite was in that book, And I think there's just 315 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 4: huge opportunity and I hope to do more. 316 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 3: It's like we have tomb Raider, we have Laura Craft, 317 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 3: but there's so many other women we just we need 318 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: to know more about them. And I feel like we 319 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: still haven't gotten our true like female Indiana Jones story, 320 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: like both cinematic perspective and also from a literary perspective. 321 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 3: That's something that I'm really looking forward to me too. Actually, 322 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 3: while on that topic, have you had any conversations about 323 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 3: being realized in cinematic form? 324 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 4: Not yet, No, no, no, not yet. But the writer's 325 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 4: always the last to hear, so maybe someday. I think 326 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: it would be very beautiful cinematically, because the island itself 327 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 4: is so gorgeous, like so haunting, the and just the 328 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 4: ocean over there. If you've ever seen that that kind 329 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 4: of landscape, the light, the ice, the waves, it could 330 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 4: be really stunning. 331 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 3: The title Isola is so sexy and alluring and interesting. 332 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 3: Can you talk about the process of landing on that 333 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: word as the title and also the significance of that 334 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 3: word in the context of Marguerite's story. 335 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so. I didn't come upon the word till 336 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 4: I was towards the of writing the book, and basically 337 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 4: Marguerite's looking at a map of this world, and I 338 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 4: based this map that she and the secretary look at 339 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 4: in her guardian's house on a real map from the 340 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 4: sixteenth century, which is sort of the first real map 341 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 4: of that era. And it was done by an Italian 342 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 4: map maker, so all the labels on the map are 343 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 4: in Italian, and where there were islands in this Gulf 344 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 4: of Saint Lawrence area, he wrote easila, which is the 345 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: Italian word for island. And he also has a big 346 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 4: white space in this map which is part incognita, like 347 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 4: literally parts unknown, because they didn't know what was in there. 348 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 4: And it was my editor's idea actually to reproduce that 349 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 4: map in the first pages of the book so the 350 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 4: reader can see what I'm talking about. But in the ocean, 351 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 4: in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence, he has these different 352 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 4: rocky islands called easila. And I was just really struck 353 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 4: by that word. I thought it was so evocative because 354 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 4: when I looked at it, it looked like I sola, 355 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 4: I alone, or I solo yes, And when you put 356 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 4: that so to me, it captured the island, but also 357 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 4: her isolation, Marguerite's isolation on the island. And so that's 358 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 4: why I chose the word, because I thought it encompassed 359 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 4: her experience there. 360 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 3: And also the word in and of itself has this 361 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 3: feminine connotation because in the Romance languages, if it ends 362 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: in an a, it tends to be the feminine version 363 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 3: of it. So that's exactly fitting. 364 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 4: In exactly, that's exactly what I was thinking. Yes, yes, 365 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 4: thank you. 366 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: It's time for another short break, but stay with us. 367 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 2: We'll be right back with Allegra Goodman. And we're back 368 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: with Allegra Goodman. I want to give our listeners a 369 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: peek into Isla. Will you do us the great honor 370 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: of reading us an excerpt? 371 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 4: So I have the book here, I'm going to I 372 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 4: read you the prologue, which is super short, but gives 373 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 4: you a sense of how she feels or how she 374 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 4: remembers feeling on the island, and gives you a sense 375 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 4: of the place. Okay, here goes prolog. I still dream 376 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 4: of birds. I watch them circle, dive into rough waves, 377 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 4: and fly up to the sun. I call to them, 378 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 4: but hear no answer. Alone, I stand on a stone island. 379 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 4: I watch for ships and see three coming tall ships 380 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 4: close enough to hail. I load my musket and shoot 381 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 4: into the air. I see penance close enough to touch. 382 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 4: As I run barefoot to the shore. Rocks cut my 383 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 4: feet and I leave a trail of blood. Brambles tear 384 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 4: my sleeves and score my arms as I shout wait, stop, 385 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 4: save me. The ship's commander hears my voice and gun. 386 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 4: Dressed in black, he stands on deck to see me. 387 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 4: Beg as I for help. He smiles when I shoot. 388 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 4: Ten thousand birds rise, screaming. Their wings beat against the wind. 389 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 4: All the sailors here and see, but their commander orders 390 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 4: them to sail on. I reach, but cannot stop the ships. 391 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 4: I wade after them into the sea in vain. I 392 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 4: struggle as wet skirts drag me down. I cry out, 393 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 4: but water fills my throat. I cannot fly, I cannot swim. 394 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 4: I cannot escape my island. 395 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, of course, So one of our 396 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 3: listeners has a question about love and loss and how 397 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 3: they're interwoven throughout the narrative of the book. 398 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: Here's Sam Hey Elegra. I loved Eslas so much. It 399 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: felt like the most hauntingly, lonely yet enchanting love story 400 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: there was. There's this element of love of things that 401 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: you don't want to lose, and the love of things 402 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: that you don't need yet, the love of people that 403 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: you collect along the way, and the loss of the 404 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: people that you love the most. What did you feel 405 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: during this book and did you feel a sense of loneliness, 406 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: and how did you keep yourself into the spirit of 407 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: writing this haunting story. 408 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 4: Oh, that's such a beautiful question. Yes that I think 409 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 4: you really put your finger on it. There's all different 410 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 4: kinds of love in this book. And even when she's 411 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 4: most alone, she remembers being loved and she feels the 412 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 4: love of the people that she's with. So she's suffered 413 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 4: a lot, and she has suffered some injustice. I would 414 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 4: say as a woman felt the love of August, She's 415 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 4: felt the love of her loyal nurse who has been 416 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 4: a mother to her and taking care of her. And 417 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 4: she comes to feel a love for nature, and she 418 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 4: feels the love of God as she grows in this book, 419 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 4: and she comes to love herself as she matures. And 420 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 4: I think that when she does suffer a lot of loss, 421 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 4: and then she tries to remember the people that she 422 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 4: has lost and live for them and in their honor. 423 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 4: That's a big theme in the book. And that's a 424 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 4: different kind of love and a love in memory of people, 425 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 4: and all of that is very important to Marguerite's journey. 426 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 4: How did I keep going when I was writing the book? 427 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 4: I would say that Marguerite herself really sustained me, and 428 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 4: this materials to see me. I wanted so much to 429 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,239 Speaker 4: do her justice, and I kept in my mind this 430 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 4: idea that someday, when I finished it, other people would 431 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 4: be able to read and share her story, just like 432 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 4: she was on the island, hoping that she would then 433 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 4: return to the people she loved and the people she remembered. 434 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 4: I was hoping for the readers at the end of 435 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 4: this process, so I kept that hope alive. And it 436 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 4: does feel like a reunion now. To hear people say 437 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 4: that they've read the book, that they were touched by 438 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 4: or they enjoyed it, it feels like I've returned home 439 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 4: to them. 440 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: We have another question, let's hear it. 441 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 4: Her name is Nicole Hi. My name is Nicole. 442 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 5: I live in Richmond, Virginia, and I adored this novel. 443 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 5: I found it to be exquisite and engaging and also 444 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 5: really painful to read. You explore a historical period in 445 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 5: which women are culturally engaged and essentially taught from births 446 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 5: to try to be invisible, don't be curious, don't be brave, 447 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 5: don't be energetic, and yet you also show us through 448 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 5: the character Marguerite, that of course, girls and women back 449 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 5: then were complex human beings. They were all of those things, curious, creative, 450 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 5: and in the case of Marguerite, braver than most. So 451 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 5: my question for you is, as you were immersing yourself 452 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 5: in the research and in the writing, how did you 453 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 5: process that emotionally? How much time did you spend thinking 454 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 5: about what your life would have been like as a writer, 455 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 5: a woman, as an artist if you had been born 456 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 5: into this world. 457 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 4: Oh, that's a great question. It made me feel grateful 458 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 4: that I live now in the twenty first century, as 459 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 4: we have so many problems now, of course, and so 460 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 4: much injustice still. But I am able to write, I 461 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 4: am able to express myself, and I'm able to be 462 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 4: educated in a way that most women in that time 463 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 4: were not even to be able to read and write. 464 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 4: Marguerite's nurse can even read, so she was privileged even 465 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 4: to learn at all. So I thought a lot about that, 466 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 4: And actually, you're right. One of the reasons that I 467 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 4: use thus little passages from the Lessons to My Daughter 468 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 4: at the beginning of each section. Those are from a 469 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 4: book that was written at the time by a queen 470 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 4: about how to be a good princess or how to 471 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 4: be a good, noble woman, and she gives all this advice. 472 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 4: Never venture your opinion, never take a step without permission, 473 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 4: be very careful, never talk to anyone alone. And what 474 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 4: I enjoyed doing about putting those lessons in the front 475 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 4: of each section of my book is that Marguerite does 476 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 4: the opposite in every single instance. So it was my 477 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 4: way of trying to show what her life is framed 478 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 4: by the constraints that she has to deal with, and 479 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 4: how unusual her experience and her spirit are. 480 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 3: This has been an incredibly inspiring conversation. You know, I 481 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 3: think whenever one book inspires you to read more and 482 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: read other books, that's a really beautiful thing. And you've 483 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 3: inspired me to read from the Heptamerm and read more 484 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 3: about women like Marguerite who are no longer a parenthesis. 485 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 4: Thanks to you. 486 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 3: Thank you, Alegra. 487 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. 488 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Alegra, and thank you for your passion. 489 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 3: Allegra Goodman is the author of Isesila, the February pick 490 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 3: for Reese's Book Club. It's available wherever you get your books. 491 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: Tomorrow, we're popping off on all the biggest stories in 492 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 2: pop culture, including the Oscars, this weekend. 493 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 4: You don't want to miss it. 494 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: I'm the Conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 495 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 496 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 3: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and 497 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 3: feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at 498 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: Danielle Robe. 499 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 500 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 501 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 3: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.