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Speaker 3: to Magical Rewind on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by State

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Speaker 3: Farm like a good neighbor.

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Speaker 5: State Farm is there, hey, or Hey, I have a

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Speaker 5: food engineering question for you.

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Speaker 6: Food engineering they're trying to melt ice cream with a

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Speaker 6: particle collider.

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Speaker 1: Not yet, but now I'm gonna go try that. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering how they engineer foods with a liquid center inside.

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Speaker 6: Okay, now you're trying to make part candy with liquid inside?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Or like, how do they make peanut butter veilled pretzels?

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Speaker 6: That's a billion dollar secret. I can't just reveal it.

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Speaker 1: We might get sued, all right, I guess we should

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Speaker 1: stick to revealing big science secrets.

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Speaker 6: Hey, yeah, I don't think we'll get sued for those.

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Speaker 1: They're usually free and maybe also useless.

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Speaker 6: You said it not mean. Hi am horehammy cartoonists and

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Speaker 6: the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 4: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I do enjoy

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Speaker 1: me a peanut butter field pretzel.

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Speaker 6: Really, why can't you just put the peanut butter on

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Speaker 6: the outside.

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Speaker 1: It's a totally different taste experience, man, I mean this

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Speaker 1: can't be compared. Plus, I admire the engineering. Somehow they

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Speaker 1: bake this pretzel around the peanut butter is incredible.

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Speaker 6: You think that's how they do it? They formed the

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Speaker 6: bread around the peanut butter.

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Speaker 1: I actually did some research about this. It's the basis

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Speaker 1: of a big lawsuit. And there's a fancy co extrusion

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Speaker 1: process where they have the pretzel dough around the peanut

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Speaker 1: butter and then they bake it.

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Speaker 6: Co extrusion. Wow, that sounds like a heavy duty physics term.

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Speaker 1: You should google it. They used to find some really

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Speaker 1: fun YouTube videos about the interior of these factories. Pretty

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Speaker 1: fascinating food engineering.

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Speaker 6: And by experiments, you mean you tried it at home

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Speaker 6: a bunch of times, or you ate a bunch of

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Speaker 6: pretzel with peanut butter.

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Speaker 1: I ate a bunch of pretzels. I tried the chocolate

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Speaker 1: covered versions, the non chocolate cover versions. I mean, in

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Speaker 1: the name of science, have.

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Speaker 6: You tried coke swinging butter and pretzels. That's the next

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Speaker 6: level heart attack recipe.

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Speaker 1: You should sell that idea to Ben and Jerry's.

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Speaker 6: But anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 6: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we extrude ideas about the universe into your

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Speaker 1: head without breaking your skull. Somehow, we wrap your mind

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Speaker 1: around the peanut butter filled delicious secrets of the universe.

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Speaker 1: We talk about all the crazy stuff happening deep out

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Speaker 1: in crazy space, and all the tiny stuff happening in

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Speaker 1: between your toes and the smallest particles. We break down

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, we talk about astrophysics and everything in between.

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Speaker 6: Wait, I thought that the science secrets that we reveal

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Speaker 6: are the pretzel part that surrounds the yummy peanut butter

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Speaker 6: inside of our punts.

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Speaker 1: It could be I was thinking of my brain as

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Speaker 1: the peanut butter and my skull is the pretzel.

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Speaker 6: You just ruined that vision of deliciousness for me.

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Speaker 1: Every time you buy into one of those from now on,

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Speaker 1: just think I'm eating Daniel's head.

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Speaker 6: Noam like goodness. Let's please hitit that out. But anyways,

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Speaker 6: we do like to talk about the universe and all

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Speaker 6: of its amazing goodness inside and everything that you can

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Speaker 6: quote through it, inside of it, and all the things

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Speaker 6: that you can discover because it's the big cosmos and

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Speaker 6: there are wonderful things out there hiding in plain sight.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And the more we look out into the universe,

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Speaker 1: the more we discover these surprises, the more questions we

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Speaker 1: have about exactly how things work, what layers they're in,

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Speaker 1: and how they're organized and how they got that way.

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Speaker 6: Right, because we can see the universe and touch it

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Speaker 6: and probe it, but who knows what's lying underneath the surface,

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Speaker 6: what is at the core of the universe and how

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Speaker 6: it works.

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Speaker 1: And everything that's out there has a history. The Moon,

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Speaker 1: the Earth, Mars, every planet, every star has a sometimes

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Speaker 1: billion years long history, a crazy story that tells us

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Speaker 1: how it got to be the way it is today.

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Speaker 1: And unraveling that story is like the big, most delicious

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Speaker 1: detective mystery in the universe. Figuring out what exactly happened

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Speaker 1: to this object. Can we tell just by looking on

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Speaker 1: the outside or just by looking through a telescope exactly

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Speaker 1: what the story is of this heavenly body?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, because we want to know, right the species is

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Speaker 6: human beings. We're curious about where things came from and

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Speaker 6: how they got to be the way they got to be,

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Speaker 6: and that's all part of their history, and it's all

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Speaker 6: there inside of the things we're looking at.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we showed up in this universe basically the last minute,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of stuff happened before we got here.

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Speaker 1: So it's fun to unravel those stories and figure out

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Speaker 1: have things looked this way for a long time? The

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Speaker 1: things used to be really different. Does that mean things

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Speaker 1: are going to change. It's all just part of like

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Speaker 1: becoming conscious beings and exploring the world that we find

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Speaker 1: around us.

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Speaker 6: So today we'll be talking about one of these mysteries

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Speaker 6: lyned underneath the surface of our own neighborhood. It's something

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Speaker 6: that we can see almost every night, but that is

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Speaker 6: kind of hidden from us, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We have questions about what's beneath our feet,

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Speaker 1: and we have questions what's beneath the feet of potential neighbors.

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Speaker 6: You mean their actual neighbors, Like is your neighbor sitting

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Speaker 6: on top of a giant oil well or something?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe there's like a huge peanut butter deposit under

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Speaker 1: my neighbor's house and I could sell that to that factory.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, instead liquid gold, that's liquid saturated fats.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's peanut butter technically a liquid or is it

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Speaker 1: a solid?

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Speaker 6: I guess it depends if it's smooth or what's the

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Speaker 6: other one crunching?

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Speaker 1: What is the phase diagram of peanut butter? Can it

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Speaker 1: sublimate into a gas?

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Speaker 7: I wonder?

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Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's ever done that experiment.

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Speaker 6: You mean, like go straight into a gas form of

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Speaker 6: peanut butter, like you can can vade peanut butter.

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Speaker 1: Not recommended, folks, not recommended. Our lawyers have not vetted

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Speaker 1: that statement. Please do not vape peanut butter.

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Speaker 6: You could clog through your lungs directly with peanut butter.

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Speaker 1: But if you do vape peanut butter, tell us about it,

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Speaker 1: because we're curious.

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Speaker 6: That may it'll be another billion dollar industry who knows.

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Speaker 1: Or a billion dollar lawsuit we're about to get hit with.

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Speaker 6: People use it to cure their pretzel addiction, and then

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Speaker 6: they'll need some patches, some peanut butter patches, right. Anyways, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: we'll be tackling one such mystery in our own solar system.

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Speaker 6: So today on the podcast, we'll be asking the question,

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Speaker 6: does Mars have a solid or liquid core? I guess

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Speaker 6: the question is Mars hardcore or softcore?

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Speaker 1: Is it a hard boiled egg or a soft boiled egg? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: I think it's a super fascinating question, and it's fun

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Speaker 1: for me because I think about like when people were

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Speaker 1: asking this question about the Earth. You know, for a

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Speaker 1: long time we didn't really know, like, hey, what's the

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Speaker 1: Earth made out of? It's just one big rock or

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Speaker 1: is there something crazy going on under our own feet?

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Speaker 1: And now that we have a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: sense of what's going on inside the Earth, we can

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Speaker 1: ask similar questions about other planets, and so it's fascinating

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Speaker 1: to wonder, like, are they different, are they the same?

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 6: I guess just to verify, the Earth has a softcore. Right,

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Speaker 6: The inside of our planet is molten, right, it's like

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Speaker 6: melted rock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some melted rock and a lot of melted metal,

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Speaker 1: melted iron, liquid nickel, all this kind of stuff flowing

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Speaker 1: underneath our feet. And it's part of why we have,

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Speaker 1: for example, a magnetic field.

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Speaker 6: I see. Now, I guess, is it possible for a

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Speaker 6: planet of our size to have a solid core? Like,

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Speaker 6: wouldn't all that pressure, gravity pressure eventually kind of I

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Speaker 6: don't know, melt the stuff inside.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The reason that we do have a liquid core is

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Speaker 1: because of all that temperature and pressure, and that comes

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Speaker 1: from both the gravitational pressure and also the decay of

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Speaker 1: the isotopes inside the Earth that helped keep it hot.

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Speaker 1: But it's not going to be that way forever.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 1: We got a certain spoonful of Earth and eventually it's

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Speaker 1: gonna cool off. I think we estimated once on this

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Speaker 1: podcast that it is going to take more than one

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Speaker 1: hundred billion years before the Earth cools, So we got

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Speaker 1: some time, and you know, the Sun is going to

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Speaker 1: go red super giant before that, so it's not going

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Speaker 1: to be our number one problem. But other planets are

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Speaker 1: different sizes, and so they will have different cooling off times.

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Speaker 6: It's going to be a while before we're cool. I

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Speaker 6: can relate to that.

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Speaker 1: Hey, we're going to be young and hot for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Think about it that way.

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Speaker 6: That sounds very hardcore, all right, But today we're asking

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Speaker 6: a question about Mars. Does Mars have a solid or

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Speaker 6: liquid core? And it's kind of a big deal, right

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Speaker 6: because it might tell us whether or not Mars is still,

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Speaker 6: you know, sort of young and active, and it might

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Speaker 6: tell us also what our future might be for Earth.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And I think it's just a question that

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Speaker 1: people have when they look up into the sky and

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Speaker 1: they wonder, you know, is that planet over there a

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Speaker 1: lot like our planet or is it totally different? And

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Speaker 1: what does that mean about the nature of planets and

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Speaker 1: planets in other Solar systems? And it's to me just

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Speaker 1: really connects with this basic, simple, initial curiosity we have

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Speaker 1: when we look up at the sky, we wonder what

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Speaker 1: those things are like.

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Speaker 6: Hey, but before we answer this question, we wanted to

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Speaker 6: answer a question from one of our listeners, perhaps our

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Speaker 6: youngest listener.

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Speaker 1: That's right. You may remember last week we talked about Hannah,

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Speaker 1: who was home sick from school. She's two and a

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Speaker 1: half years old. She lives in Australia and she wanted

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Speaker 1: to hear Daniel and Jorge. So I reached out to

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Speaker 1: her dad and asked him, Hey, does Hannah have any

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Speaker 1: questions wants us to answer while she's homesick? And he

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Speaker 1: asked her what questions she had for Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: and she said, monkey?

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Speaker 7: Wait?

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Speaker 6: Monkey is her question?

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Speaker 1: Monkey was her first question or her.

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Speaker 6: Answer to the universe and everything in it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's hard to get in the mind

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Speaker 1: of a two and a half year old sometimes. But

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Speaker 1: then he asked her again, and so here's Hannah's real question.

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Speaker 4: Why, Daniel, how my line's Hannah?

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Speaker 8: Why is the mind shine?

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Speaker 6: Oh? That's adorable. It's like a little, tiny, little nerd.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she has the same curiosity. Today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about Mars and what's in it. But you know, she's

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Speaker 1: looking up in the sky and she's wondering, hmm, why

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Speaker 1: is that thing up there glowing at me? It has

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Speaker 1: the same root of curiosity.

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Speaker 6: I see you're saying that it taps into that same

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Speaker 6: like looking up at the sky and wondering what's going

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Speaker 6: on out there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly why is that thing up there doing that

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Speaker 1: thing that it's doing?

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Speaker 6: Well? Really quickly, then what is the answer for Hannah?

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Speaker 6: Why does the moon shine?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Hannah, the reason and the moon shines, especially at night,

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Speaker 1: is that it's actually reflecting light from the sun. Even

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Speaker 1: though you can't see the sun at night, the sun

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Speaker 1: can see the moon, and so the Sun's light bounces

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Speaker 1: off the moon and down to your eyeball. So at

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Speaker 1: night you're kind of seeing the sun by seeing it

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Speaker 1: reflect off the moon. So moonlight is all just reflected sunlight.

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Speaker 6: Right. Do you think she's asking about moonshine as well?

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Speaker 1: Why does my dad drink so much moonshine? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a question for.

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Speaker 6: Her dad, and she's tuned Hannah's father.

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Speaker 1: There nothing wrong with moonshine, nothing wrong with the little moonshine.

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Speaker 6: All right, well, Hannah, that's to your answer. The moon

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Speaker 6: shines because it bounces light from the sun, so it

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Speaker 6: looks like it glows, but really it's just kind of

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Speaker 6: like a mirror, just reflecting and getting lit up by

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Speaker 6: the sun.

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Speaker 1: That's right, all right.

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Speaker 6: Well back to our question, does Mars have a solid

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Speaker 6: or liquid core? This is a pretty interesting question, and

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Speaker 6: we were wondering, as usual, if people out there in

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Speaker 6: you the answer to this billion year question.

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Speaker 1: So thanks to everybody who volunteered to answer this question

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Speaker 1: as you. If you'd like to participate for future episodes,

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Speaker 1: please write to me two questions at Daniel and Jorge

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 6: Think about it for a second. Do you think Mars

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Speaker 6: is solid or liquid on the inside. Here's what people

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Speaker 6: had to say.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they might be a big diamond inside it.

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Speaker 7: Now I think Mars has a hot, liquid core.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it does, completely solid because Mars doesn't have any

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Speaker 1: radioactive isotopes inside the core. Keep it hot and keep

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Speaker 1: it liquid.

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Speaker 9: I'm going to say, yes, Mars has a solid core

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Speaker 9: of iron or nickel or some other heavy element, just

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Speaker 9: like Earth.

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Speaker 10: Yes, Mars has a solid core. It has no obvious

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Speaker 10: plate tectonics going on. It obviously had some sort of

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Speaker 10: tectonic activity going on at some time, and the magnetic

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Speaker 10: field is almost non existent. So I think if we

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Speaker 10: were to dig deep, I think we'd find it does

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Speaker 10: have a solid core.

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Speaker 7: I don't think Mars has a significant magnetic field because

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Speaker 7: solar radiation is a concern for explorers. I would say

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Speaker 7: it cooled down at least a billion years ago to

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Speaker 7: a solid all the way through to its core.

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Speaker 11: Yes, I think it has and used to be more

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Speaker 11: powerful and active, but judging by the strength of the

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Speaker 11: magnetic field and the atmosphere, it weakened in time. Probably

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Speaker 11: that will happen to Earth too. I don't know for sure,

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Speaker 11: but kind of this is the way I think.

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Speaker 1: It would go. Mars does have a solid core. End

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Speaker 1: of story.

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Speaker 12: I seem to remember you saying in an earlier podcast

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Speaker 12: that Mars does not have an electromagnetic fuel protecting it

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Speaker 12: because it doesn't have a solid So I'm going to

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Speaker 12: say no.

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Speaker 6: All right, some pretty definitive answers here. I feel like

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Speaker 6: people were pretty confident about their answers here. They're like, yes, definitely, this, definitely, that, definitely.

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Speaker 6: Peanut butter a.

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Speaker 1: Big hot diamond. I like that one.

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Speaker 6: Why do you think people are so confident this time?

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people have heard that

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Speaker 1: Mars is smaller and cooled faster, doesn't have volcanoes on

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Speaker 1: the surface or magnetic field, and so I think that

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Speaker 1: leads people to suspect that it might just be a

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Speaker 1: big lump of hard rock, unlike the Earth.

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Speaker 6: End of story. All right, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 1: But there's more.

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Speaker 6: I see, there's more to the story.

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Speaker 1: There is more to the story, Yes, exactly. I think

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Speaker 1: there's some really interesting nuances here that these listeners will learn.

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Speaker 6: All right, well, let's dig into it. First of all, Daniel,

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Speaker 6: why is this question interesting to you, I guess and

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Speaker 6: to physicists and generally to the public. Why should we

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Speaker 6: care whether Mars is hardcore or soft and squishy on

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Speaker 6: the inside.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well, for me, there's sort of two levels there.

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Speaker 1: One is just inherent curiosity, Like I have questions about

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Speaker 1: what's inside stuff. You know, you ever get a rock

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Speaker 1: and you crack it open, you find a crystal inside.

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Speaker 1: There's like a joy there discovering something you didn't expect,

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Speaker 1: and so you always want to like look inside stuff

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Speaker 1: to see what's there, maybe there's something hidden, maybe there's

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Speaker 1: a mystery. You know, that's why we explore the universe.

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Speaker 1: We don't just sit back and think about it in

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Speaker 1: our minds the way the Greeks do. So we sort

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Speaker 1: of want to know what's out there because we could

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Speaker 1: be shocked, we could be surprised. Mars could be like

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Speaker 1: hollow on the inside and filled with aliens or something.

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Speaker 1: So we definitely want to go look and see what's

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Speaker 1: inside this stuff. But also I think there's a question

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Speaker 1: about just sort of the nature of planets, Like we

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Speaker 1: have an interest in how many planets are out there,

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Speaker 1: how do they form, what do they look like? Are

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Speaker 1: there potential homes for humanity out there? And to get

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Speaker 1: answers to that, we really need to know like how

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Speaker 1: planets form and what they're made out of. It that'll

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Speaker 1: give us an answer to like what they're like on

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Speaker 1: the surface. So we got to know how the insides

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Speaker 1: work if we want to figure out how the outsides look.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, because you know, it's still a kind of a

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Speaker 6: big mystery in astrophysics and in science is how did

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Speaker 6: the Solar System form and how do these planets specifically form.

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Speaker 6: In an early version of the Solar system, right, and

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Speaker 6: it's still kind of a big question. We're still running

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Speaker 6: simulations and trying to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about on this podcast we don't even

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Speaker 1: really understand how our solar system came to be, Like

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Speaker 1: we run models about our solar system doesn't really quite

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Speaker 1: make sense, like why is Mars so small? And why

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Speaker 1: do we have very few planets close to our Sun

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Speaker 1: whereas many other solar systems have lots and lots of

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Speaker 1: planets in between the distance between our Sun and Mercury.

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Speaker 1: So we want to know the answer to that question,

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Speaker 1: like what is the story of our solar system? For me,

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Speaker 1: it drives me crazy to think that there's an exciting,

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Speaker 1: dramatic story something that happened here and we just don't

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Speaker 1: know it.

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Speaker 6: Maybe we were co extruded by the great planet factoring

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Speaker 6: the sky.

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Speaker 1: A new creation myth folks born here today on the podcast.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, co extrusion sounds like a good novel name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, there are folk folks who do

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Speaker 1: that kind of study, like look for other planets in

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Speaker 1: other solar systems, They look for exoplanets, and then there's

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Speaker 1: a whole community people who just study like the planets

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Speaker 1: in our Solar system and what's in them. People who

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Speaker 1: dedicate their entire research careers to like this question what's inside.

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Speaker 6: Mars, And you're saying that there might be parallels with

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Speaker 6: the Earth as well, Like knowing what happened to Mars

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Speaker 6: might help us understand what's happening here on Earth and

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Speaker 6: let us study things like earthquakes and what we can

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Speaker 6: expect in the future.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, you never want to just have ND equals one, right.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to base all of your conclusions about

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Speaker 1: how planets work from one example. You want to look

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Speaker 1: at a bunch of them. You want a population so

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Speaker 1: you can get a sense for what's typical, and you

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Speaker 1: can also see the future, Like if Mars is smaller

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Speaker 1: and colder than Earth, then in some sense, it might

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Speaker 1: be what the future of Earth looks like, you know,

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Speaker 1: in millions and billions of years. But it'd be good

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Speaker 1: to get an understanding of how these processes work because

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Speaker 1: we rely on the Earth to have these layers in

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Speaker 1: order to like have our civilization and our society function.

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Speaker 1: So it'd be good to know, like the factors that

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Speaker 1: control that, what are the forces at play? Are things

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Speaker 1: rising or sinking? Or cooling or heating, or what's going

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Speaker 1: on inside. So absolutely we want to get a better

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Speaker 1: handle on the interior mechanisms of our planet.

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Speaker 6: And it's all right there, hidden under the surface, bubbling

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Speaker 6: up or maybe just chilling out. Let's get into whether

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Speaker 6: or not Mars has a solid or liquid core, and

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Speaker 6: whether we'll ever know, but first let's take a quick freak.

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467
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469
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Speaker 1: sustainability goals, including being greenhouse gas neutral by twenty to fifty.

470
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,760
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471
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472
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,760
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473
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474
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn, and irrigates the crops.

475
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: How is US dairy tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use

476
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,320
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478
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479
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480
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481
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,000
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482
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: with less of an impact. Visit usdairy dot com slash

483
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: sustainability to learn more.

484
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 6: All right, we're talking about whether Mars the planet right,

485
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 6: not the Mars bars because we know those have a nugad.

486
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: Center, right, But is nugad a liquid or a solid?

487
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 6: Oh no, another, you have a whole episode on strange

488
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 6: matter from in candies.

489
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: Daniel vapes various candies. That's in my new podcast series,

490
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: maybe one episode long.

491
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 6: You just blew my mind vaping nugid? What does that

492
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 6: even mean?

493
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, How could it be possible that nobody's

494
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,959
Speaker 1: ever tried that before? You know, after vaping other substances.

495
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: Somebody must have had that idea.

496
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 6: Oh man, I think you're in the wrong business, Daniel.

497
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 6: All right, So we're trying to figure out whether Mars

498
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 6: has a solid or liquid cored not just for curiosity

499
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 6: about what's going on there, but I might tell us

500
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 6: about the history of our planet and the whole Solar system.

501
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 6: And so, Daniel, you actually went out there and talked

502
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 6: to an expert on this topic, right.

503
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: That's right. I called up a colleague of mine, Catherine Johnson.

504
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: She's at the University of British Columbia, and I asked

505
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: her why she was so excited about this particular question.

506
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 6: Here's what she had to say.

507
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: So, then it's my pleasure to introduce to the program

508
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: professor Katherine Johnson. Catherine, say hello to our listeners and

509
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: tell them a little bit about yourselves.

510
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 10: Hi.

511
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 14: So it's pleasure to be here. And I'm a faculty

512
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 14: member at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver and

513
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 14: also a scientist at the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson,

514
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 14: and I work in geophysics in a sort of planetary science.

515
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 14: So I'm interested in understanding the interior state and evolution

516
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 14: of some of the planets, moons, and asteroids in our

517
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 14: Solar System.

518
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: And tell me why that's exciting for you. What is

519
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 1: it about the interior of Mars, for example, that makes

520
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: you curious? It makes you wonder what's going on inside there.

521
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 14: So you know, one of the reasons that I like

522
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 14: to think about other planets is really to try to

523
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 14: understand our own planet better. I think, you know, for me,

524
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 14: that's one of the major motivations to try to understand

525
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 14: planets in our own solace system, especially in the inner

526
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 14: Solar System, right where we have Mercury, Venus, the Earth, Mars,

527
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 14: our own Moon, and they're all completely different from each other,

528
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 14: even though they started in somewhat similar at least with

529
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 14: the exception of the Moon, started in somewhat similar ways.

530
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 14: And so a lot of this really has to do

531
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 14: with their interiors and how their interiors have like shaped

532
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 14: their histories.

533
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 6: All right, thank you, Catherine. And so you went and

534
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 6: chatted with her about this topic.

535
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did. We had a really fun conversation after

536
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: all about it. Learned a lot of gory details about

537
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: how the project works and the politics of getting her

538
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: instrument up and on Mars and how that all works.

539
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: So it was a lot of fun. Thanks Catherine very

540
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: much for educating me about your research.

541
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 6: Oh, she has an instrument on Mars.

542
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: She does exactly. She helped design and build this seismometer

543
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: that they have on Mars, which is one of the

544
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: ways they figure out what's inside.

545
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 6: Interesting because that is sort of a way they do

546
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 6: it here on Earth. Right, we haven't actually like dug

547
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 6: a hole or of little people to the center of

548
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 6: the Earth. We have just models and kind of sound

549
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 6: and sound wave detections on the surface, right.

550
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: That's right. We have dug in only very shallow holes

551
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: relatively speaking, into the earth, and so we have not

552
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: actually probed physically the center of the Earth. But we

553
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: do have a pretty good picture of what's going on

554
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: inside the Earth because of earthquakes. Every time there's an earthquake,

555
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: it's like the earth rings sort of like a bell,

556
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: and the waves they don't just like shake the outer crust.

557
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: They propagate all the way through the interior. And when

558
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: waves cross a threshold, like when you go from solid

559
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: to liquid, or liquid to solid, or one kind of

560
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: metal or to another, you get reflections. Just like when

561
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: light hits a piece of glass, most of it goes through,

562
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: but some of it reflects. So these reflections and the

563
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: interior of the earth make for really complicated patterns. But

564
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: if you have a bunch of seismometers all over the

565
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: Earth that measure the shaking, you can get a really

566
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: nice picture of exactly how this wave propagated through the earth.

567
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: And then from that you can back out like, oh,

568
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: there must have been a layer here, and there must

569
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: have been a layer there, and you can make really

570
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 1: detailed measurements about the composition and the density and the

571
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: flow of those layers.

572
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 6: And so she has some instruments on Mars, and are

573
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 6: their earthquakes on Mars? She is she can measure.

574
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: There are no earthquakes on Mars. There are Mars quakes,

575
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: Martian quakes. Yeah, they actually only have one size mometer

576
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: on Mars, so it's a little trickier, but we'll dig

577
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: into it in detail in a few.

578
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 6: Minutes, all right, And I like how she talked about

579
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 6: how every planet is different and how like the insights

580
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 6: tell you a lot about your history. I guess that's

581
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 6: true for people too, rite like you can look at

582
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 6: my veins and be like, oh, this guy hit a

583
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 6: lot of peanut butter.

584
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes our interiors do reveal our history exactly,

585
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: and every planet has a very different story. And the

586
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: thing that always surprises me is to realize that these

587
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: stories change with time. You know. It's not like Venus

588
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: has always looked the way it does today and Mars

589
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: has always looked the way it does today. You know,

590
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: right now, the surface of Mars is very cool and inactive,

591
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: but scientists think that Mars had volcanoes active on its

592
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: surface up to maybe like a million years ago, which

593
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: is basically no time at all in the billions of

594
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: years history of Mars. So like, this is an active

595
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: story that's still developing.

596
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 6: We're in the middle of history.

597
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: We are history is being made exactly all.

598
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 6: Right, Well, maybe step us through here. Why do we

599
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 6: think Mars might have a solid core? Like where did

600
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 6: this idea first come from? And why do we need

601
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 6: to assume that.

602
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we just didn't know for a long time.

603
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: I think the popular conception is that Mars has a

604
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: solid core just because it's smaller and colder. Right, Mars

605
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: is really weird and small. People might not realize, but

606
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: it has like a tenth of the mass of the Earth,

607
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: so it's really a much smaller chunk of stuff than

608
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: the Earth.

609
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 6: Is what, really a tenth I knew it was smaller,

610
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 6: but it didn't know it was ten times smaller, lighter.

611
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, maybe ten fifteen percent, but it's

612
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: just like not really that much stuff. And people think

613
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: that it might be Jupiter's fault. You know, Jupiter might

614
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: have come into the inner Solar System earlier on, like

615
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: millions and billions of years ago and sort of pushed

616
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: away a lot of the stuff that might have helped

617
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: make Mars bigger, and that might be one reason why

618
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: Mars is small. But that's you know, just a mystery.

619
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: But in the end, Mars is a smaller chunk of stuff,

620
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: and a smaller chunk of stuff doesn't have as much gravity,

621
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: so it doesn't have as much pressure and high temperature

622
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: stuff in its interior, and it cools faster. So there's

623
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: this sense that Mars is like being a smaller rock,

624
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: has a less chance to have a molten core than

625
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: Earth does. Like you know, asteroids out there don't have

626
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: molten cores. They're not big enough to generate that pressure

627
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: and temperate in their interiors.

628
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 14: Oh.

629
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 6: I see. So that's where I guess you might first

630
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 6: assume that Mars has a solid core, and we also

631
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 6: know it doesn't have a magnetic field, right, I mean,

632
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 6: I guess if that sat this, like they took a

633
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 6: compass to Mars and it didn't work.

634
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's lots of satellites orbiting Mars looking for magnetic

635
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: fields and they don't have one. But if you look

636
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: at some of the rocks on Mars you can see

637
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: fossil evidence for a magnetic field. That means that we

638
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: know that Mars used to have a magnetic field. So

639
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: that sort of adds to the narrative, like maybe Mars

640
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: when it was young and hot, literally had a flowing

641
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: interior core that generated this magnetic field. But it's gone now,

642
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: and so maybe that like locked up and there's no

643
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: longer any motion in the core.

644
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I used to be a lot more magnetic when

645
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 6: I was younger and odder too, but I know I'm

646
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 6: just cool.

647
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, back when you had a better interior flow.

648
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 6: Huh yeah, bat were for as clog with candy swings.

649
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 6: All right, So then where did this idea that it

650
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 6: could be liquid? And I mean, it seems pretty reasonable

651
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 6: for it to be solid and likely, but what makes

652
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 6: this thing it could have a liquid core?

653
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we just don't know, and so one

654
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: question is like, maybe we think it has a solid core,

655
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: but let's go check. Remember, lots of the amazing discoveries

656
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: we've made in history come from just sort of checking

657
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: off things where we didn't expect to find anything interesting. Like,

658
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: let's check to see how quickly galaxies rotate. Oh my gosh,

659
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: they're rotating way too fast. That's how we discovered dark matter.

660
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: Let's check to see what happens when we shoot photons

661
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: at this metal that seems boring. Oh my gosh, we

662
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: discover quantum mechanics. So there's lots of wonderful opportunities to

663
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: discover things when you just sort of do basic checks.

664
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: So that's number one.

665
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 6: I guess you don't want to go around the university's

666
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 6: assuming things, right, do you want to actually make sure.

667
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we do experiments, right, because often the

668
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: results are a surprise, and those are the most delicious

669
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: times in science, right when you get a result that

670
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: surprises you, that doesn't make sense, it conflicts with your

671
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: idea of the universe, and that's how you learn, right,

672
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: that's what science is. But then people also realize that

673
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,719
Speaker 1: we didn't actually have conclusive evidence that Mars had a

674
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: solid core, that you could build a model of Mars

675
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: with a liquid core that was still consistent with everything

676
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: we saw and we knew about Mars.

677
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 6: But I guess maybe the question is could it be liquid?

678
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 6: I mean, if it doesn't have a magnetic field, wouldn't

679
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 6: that tell us that it has a solid core.

680
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: Not necessarily, because a magnetic field actually requires two different things.

681
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: It requires some liquid, but it also requires flow, like

682
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: that liquid has to be in motion. There needs to

683
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: be some sort of like circulation of that liquid. Because remember,

684
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: the dynamo effect that gives you a magnetic field doesn't

685
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: just from having liquid sitting around. It comes from currents

686
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: right ionized particles in motion. So it's possible that Mars

687
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: has a liquid, but that liquid isn't flowing in the

688
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: right way to give you a magnetic field.

689
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 6: Oh, I see. It could just be like a liquid

690
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 6: center just sitting there.

691
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or you could have a liquid layer between two

692
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: other solid layers and it could just be sort of

693
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: like too thin to have the right kind of rotating currents.

694
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: Or it might just be like the heat difference between

695
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: that liquid layer and the next layer isn't great enough

696
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: to get like the convection you need to have.

697
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 6: Flow, don't You also need like to have special metals

698
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 6: in that you know, liquid layer for you to get

699
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 6: the magnetic field, Like, isn't iron in our molten core

700
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 6: a big part of why we have a magnetic field.

701
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And so you need to be open to

702
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: those possibilities. We do think, based on density estimates, that

703
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: there is a big iron nickel core to Mars, so

704
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: that the question is really is some of it liquid

705
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: or is it all solid? But you're right, you need

706
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: some metal. If you had just like a core of

707
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, ceramic or whatever, something that was totally insulating,

708
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: then you couldn't get a magnetic feel from that. It

709
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: has to conduct electricity.

710
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 6: So it could have a liquid core. Mars could look

711
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 6: sort of small and cold, but it could be inside,

712
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 6: you know, frothing or seating, or you know, have a soft,

713
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 6: squishy center or layer.

714
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's a really exciting moment in science when

715
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: you realize, hold on a second, you know, everything we

716
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: thought was true could be different. This other theory is

717
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: actually totally consistent with everything we know. And that's exciting

718
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: because it gives you like two possibilities to explore. It

719
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: gives you an opportunity to be surprised.

720
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 6: Then, I guess the big question then is if it

721
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 6: could be liquid inside, how could we ever know? I mean,

722
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 6: we're sitting here, thousands and thousands of miles away, sending

723
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 6: small robots one at a time. How are we going

724
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 6: to find out what's inside? Daniel?

725
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it turns out we have lots of different

726
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: ways to propose this question, some of which we can

727
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: do without actually going to the surface of Mars. One

728
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: of them is really cool is that they measure basically

729
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: how squishy Mars is. They have a satellite which rotates

730
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: around Mars and basically it is imaging its surface and

731
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: making a picture of like the shape of Mars, how

732
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: spherical is it? Because Mars, like everything else, is getting

733
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: squeezed by the Sun. Remember we talked about tidal forces,

734
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: how the gravitational force on an object is stronger on

735
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: the side that's closer to the Sun than further from

736
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 1: the Sun. Or for example, this is why Jupiter's moon

737
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: Io has a hot interior because it's getting squeezed by

738
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: these tidal forces. Well, Mars is getting squeezed by the Sun,

739
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: and it would get squeezed differently if it had a

740
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: liquid center or some liquid layers than if it was

741
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: totally solid. Basically it would get squished more. So by

742
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: measuring really precisely the shape of Mars as it spins

743
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: and goes around the Sun, you can get a sense

744
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: for whether or not it has a liquid layer, you.

745
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 6: Mean, like as it goes around the Sun or as

746
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 6: it spins around its axis.

747
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Basically the important thing is which side of it

748
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: is facing the Sun, because that's the part that's getting

749
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: sort of pulled towards the Sun.

750
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 6: Really, and so.

751
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: As it spins and as it moves around the Sun,

752
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: a different part of it is facing the Sun, and

753
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: so it's getting squeezed.

754
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 6: So if it was a solid rock, then it wouldn't

755
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 6: get deformed by the gravity of the Sun much as

756
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 6: it goes around. But if it was liquid inside, it

757
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 6: might you know, kind of guisch, kind of like a

758
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 6: drop of water in space.

759
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's exactly what happens, and so we can

760
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: measure that, and that gives us some clue about whether

761
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: or not there's a liquid or solid layer inside Mars.

762
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 6: All right, well, let's get into some of the other

763
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 6: ways we can tell if Mars is soft and squishy

764
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 6: on the inside or if it's hardcore. So let's get

765
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 6: into that. But first, let's take another quick break.

766
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

767
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,200
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768
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,280
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769
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,920
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770
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771
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772
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773
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,520
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774
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775
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776
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,040
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777
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,799
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778
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779
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,840
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780
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

781
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782
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,200
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783
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784
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,919
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785
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786
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798
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799
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800
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801
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802
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804
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806
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807
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810
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811
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812
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813
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814
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815
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 6: All right, is Mars hardcore or is it just a

816
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 6: big squishy fellah or person inside? Now? We talked about

817
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 6: how we can tell, and we can tell sometimes by

818
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 6: the tidal effects of the Sun on its shape. So

819
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 6: that's one way, and that's happening to us here on

820
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 6: Earth too, Daniel. Our Earth is getting squished.

821
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, our Earth gets squished by the Sun and by

822
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: the Moon. Right, the reason that we have tides in

823
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: our ocean is that the Moon is having exactly that

824
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: same effect on our liquid exterior, and then the Sun

825
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: has that effect on our liquid interior because it squeezes

826
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: the whole planet.

827
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 6: All right, Well, what are some of the other ways

828
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 6: we could tell if Mars is soft or are inside.

829
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: Another way they do it is by measuring its wobble.

830
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: So Mars is spinning and it's going around the Sun,

831
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: and they measure its orbit very very precisely. And something

832
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: with a liquid center will spin a little bit differently

833
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: than something with a solid center, because the liquid center,

834
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: for example, might not be keeping up with the rest

835
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: of the object, right, it might be flowing at a

836
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: different rate, and this will affect how Mars sort of

837
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: wobbles as it goes around the Sun and changes its orbit.

838
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 6: Really because of like conservation of angular momentum, or is

839
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 6: it just like you know, like moving around a water

840
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 6: bottle with water in it? It just creates a lot

841
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 6: of kind of interforces that kind of throw you off.

842
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, there is definitely a different moment of inertia

843
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: for an object that has liquid inside of it, because

844
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: it's distributed differently, Like the density is different, right, So

845
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: you can get a sense for the sort of interior density.

846
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: But then also, as you say, you're going to get

847
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: like flows and it's not necessarily going to catch up

848
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: to the rest of Mars. And so you can tell

849
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: sort of, like you know, the difference between having a

850
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: liquid and solid based on how sort of the angle

851
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: of Mars spin changes as it goes around. I think

852
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: of it sort of like a top. You know, a

853
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: top that has a liquid center will spin differently than

854
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: the top that doesn't have a liquid center.

855
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 6: Right, Well, at top of the liquid center would slow

856
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 6: down faster, wouldn't it.

857
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: It depends if the liquid is initially spinning, I guess.

858
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 6: So that's another way we can tell we can very

859
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 6: carefully kind of study the orbit of Mars.

860
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then the most precise way, of course is

861
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: to get down to the surface and actually measure Mars

862
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: quakes and use those to get an internal picture of

863
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: what's going on inside Mars.

864
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 6: Oh, I see, like, get on the Mars surface and

865
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 6: measure how you know, sound waste travel through the planet precisely.

866
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: And they did this originally on the Viking Landers. They

867
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: actually had seismometers on the first two Viking Landers, but

868
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: it didn't really work. Like one of them it didn't deploy,

869
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: so it didn't get onto the surface, and the other

870
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: one only ever heard one Mars quake, but it was

871
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: before it was actually touching the surface, and so it

872
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: was this very sort of controversial event in planetary science community.

873
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: Had Viking heard a Mars quake or not? And so

874
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: before inside landed on Mars fairly recently, nobody knew if

875
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: there actually were Mars quakes or if it was just

876
00:40:58,520 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: totally quiet.

877
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 6: I guess, well, maybe first of all, let's take a

878
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 6: step back and maybe mentioned briefly how you can use

879
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 6: sound waves to tell what the core looks like, like

880
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 6: the sound waves travel differently through was liquid or solid?

881
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like we do for the Earth, as we

882
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: talked about earlier. If there are Mars quakes, then they

883
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: generate these compression waves, and those compression waves will bounce

884
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: off of interior layers, and so if there's an interface

885
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: between the layers, like a solid mantle and then a

886
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: liquid layer. Then you'll have the sound waves bounce off differently.

887
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: Then it's just all solid, just like light going through

888
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: a glass or hitting water. When you transfer from one

889
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: medium to another or from one density to another, you're

890
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: going to get all sorts of complicated reflections. And if

891
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: you measure the sound waves on the surface, then you

892
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: can get a picture of that. It can give you

893
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: a map of the interior of the planet.

894
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 6: I see, and then from the density map you can

895
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 6: maybe infer like, oh, this part's less dense, it must

896
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 6: be liquid.

897
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: But also those transition points are really important. You can

898
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: tell where the transition points are by telling when the

899
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: reflection happened and exactly the direction that the wave went.

900
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 6: And we actually have confirmation that there are Mars quakes,

901
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 6: like we've seen them or felt them, or do we

902
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 6: know for sure?

903
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually do have now. So the inside lander

904
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: that's sitting on Mars, it has a seismometer on it.

905
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: And so the lander landed and then put out this

906
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: cute little bubble which sits on the surface of Mars,

907
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: and it's shielded from the sun and from the wind,

908
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: and it just listens to the surface of Mars. So

909
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: before they landed, they had all these theories about how

910
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: you might get Mars quakes even without any tectonic activity. Right,

911
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: there's no like plates on Mars. You don't have like

912
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: earthquakes on Mars the same way you have on Earth

913
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: because you don't have tectonic activity. But they thought that

914
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: you would still have little Mars quakes. So they landed

915
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: this thing on Mars and they saw like four hundred

916
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: and fifty Mars quakes in twenty nineteen.

917
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 6: Wait, what four hundred marsquakes a year?

918
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so more than one every day. And these are

919
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: pretty small little quakes or like you know, things that

920
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: a seize momometer could pick up but you wouldn't necessarily notice.

921
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 6: Could it be the Mars inside their caves kind of

922
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 6: partying or something jumping up and down.

923
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: It's actually really fascinating. In order to understand whether they

924
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: could be quakes on Mars without tectonic activity, right, without

925
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: these tectonic plates smashing into each other, they look to

926
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 1: see if there are earthquakes on Earth far away from

927
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: the plate boundaries, and it turns out that there are,

928
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: So you can get earthquakes even where you don't have

929
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: plates that can come from like the sun heating up

930
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: big slabs of rock which then expand, or things happening

931
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: underneath that affect you know, how the crust is moving.

932
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: And so from those models, they expected there to be

933
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: a bunch of Mars quakes, and then they put this

934
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: thing on Mars and they actually see these.

935
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 6: Quakes interesting, like, even if there are no liquid core

936
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 6: and there aren't any like big giant plates of rock

937
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 6: floating and crashing into each other, you can still get

938
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 6: earthquakes just from a rock just sitting there getting keated

939
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 6: up by the sun.

940
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's not something that we understand very very well,

941
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: and so it's something they're curious about. They were really

942
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: curious when they landed this thing, like what we see

943
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: with the level of quakes we expected, or they'd be

944
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: a lot more than we expected, or will be a

945
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: lot quieter than we expected. They had some pretty good arguments,

946
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: but they just weren't sure. You know, that's why we

947
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: go explore the Solar system.

948
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 6: And so we measured four hundred and fifty Mars quakes

949
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 6: in twenty nineteen, and then in twenty to twenty they

950
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 6: stopped because of the pandemic also or.

951
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: No, that's just the latest data that they've released, So

952
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: that's the latest result. But you know, they're still analyzing data.

953
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: This is an active area of research. They're still collecting data,

954
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: and they're still waiting for a really big quake. So far,

955
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: they've seen sort of a lot of small quakes, and

956
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: I think they're a little bit disappointed. They were hoping

957
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: for like a bunch of big ones because the big

958
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: ones are the ones that carry a lot of energy

959
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: and really help them see the interior. With the smaller quakes,

960
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 1: it doesn't penetrate as deeply, so you can't really tell

961
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: what's going on. So they're sort of hanging out waiting

962
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: to get lucky.

963
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 6: So they have detected Mars quakes, but there aren't big

964
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 6: enough for them to sort of be able to see

965
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 6: much about the intercore.

966
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: They're not as big as they hoped, but you know,

967
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: they are clever scientists and so they've developed fancy new

968
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: ideas is for how to use these to see the

969
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: interior anyway, and it's not as powerful as they would

970
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: have hoped until they get like a really big one

971
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: in all of Mars' rings like a bell. But they

972
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: have been able to get a pretty good picture for

973
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: what's going on.

974
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 6: All right, Well, then that's out there on Mars, and

975
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 6: Catherine Johnson is one of the scientists on it. So

976
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 6: what did she say that we found so far?

977
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: So I asked her to give me the insight on

978
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: Mars and tell me what's going on in the interior.

979
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: And here's what she had to say.

980
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 14: So, we've had a good idea for quite a while now,

981
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 14: a decade or so, that the deepest interior of Mars

982
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 14: is at least partly fluid, but we haven't been able

983
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 14: to confirm it with seismology, and that's something that we're

984
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 14: hoping to do with the Insight mission that's currently on Mars.

985
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 14: And the other thing that we really haven't known is

986
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 14: how big its core is. This is really important because

987
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 14: we don't know exactly how big it is. The trade

988
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 14: off is it could be smaller and pure metal or

989
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 14: a bit bigger with some light stuff mixed in with it.

990
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: It seems like Mars does have liquid in its core.

991
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 6: Really they can tell.

992
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's at least partly fluid. That's what she said.

993
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: And all these different methods that we've been using the

994
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: Whibble method, the Wobble method, and these seismic methods all

995
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: sort of tell the same story that there is some

996
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: liquid in the interior of Mars.

997
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 6: Interesting like at the core or as a layer, probably

998
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 6: as a layer on the outer core, just like with

999
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 6: the Earth.

1000
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: You know, in the Earth, as you go into the Earth,

1001
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: you have the mantle, and then you have sort of

1002
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: an outer core and an inner core, and there you

1003
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: have like increasing temperature and pressure, and first temperature winds

1004
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: and things are like hot and melty, and then as

1005
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: you get to the very center pressure winds. Even though

1006
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: things are still really hot, pressure takes over and you

1007
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: have a solid core. So they think that's probably what's

1008
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: happening on Mars. Also, you have this core that's like

1009
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred kilometers in radius and the outer layers of

1010
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: it probably liquid.

1011
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 6: So they feel pretty confident. Then they know the answer.

1012
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 6: So all of our listeners were wrong, or most of

1013
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 6: them were, as I would have been. But that's pretty surprising.

1014
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 6: So they found that Mars does have a liquid center.

1015
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Mars is still hot and young, and I

1016
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: was surprised as well. You know, I also expected Mars

1017
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: to be solid because it seems cold and it's small,

1018
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: and I expected things will have cooled off, and for

1019
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: all the reasons that we gave before, it seemed like

1020
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: a reasonable guess. But you never know until you actually

1021
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: go out there and measure it. There are surprises out

1022
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: there waiting for us, and so we are still learning

1023
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: a lot about how planets form and how they develop

1024
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: into their middle age.

1025
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 6: Can you still call it lava or magma or would

1026
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 6: it be like marma.

1027
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the name of it would be,

1028
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 1: but this is stuff much much deeper than the outer layers, right,

1029
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: Magma is actually part of the crust that's become liquid

1030
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: because it's become really hot. We're talking about stuff that's

1031
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: below the crust, below the mantle, down into the core itself,

1032
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: like the real interior Mars. This other question of like

1033
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: is there magma still on Mars is another fascinating question

1034
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: because vulcanism on Mars seems to have ended fairly recently,

1035
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: so it could be that inside the cus of Mars

1036
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: there is still some sort of hot magma.

1037
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 6: Interesting, that's cool. Maybe when we get there we could

1038
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 6: use that for energy. Is that possible?

1039
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it's possible, you know, I guess it wouldn't

1040
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: be called geo thermal energy, be called like marshow thermal energy?

1041
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 6: Interesting, yeah, meo thermal energy.

1042
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: But Mars has a thicker crust we think than the

1043
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: Earth does. We think the crust is like fifty to

1044
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: one hundred kilometers thick, so it's probably colder and thicker.

1045
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: So it might be harder to find a spot where

1046
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: there is still like you know, active magma. We don't

1047
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: even know if there is still, but you know, Mars

1048
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: had this like volcanic history for billions of years, which

1049
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: seems to have ended kind of recently, so it'd be

1050
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: a surprise if there was totally cold and quiet in

1051
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: the interior.

1052
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 6: In terms of the crust, so it's just another flavor

1053
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 6: of peanut butter maybe crusty, smooth, crunchy and crusty.

1054
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: Mars is very multifasted. It is not just two layers, man,

1055
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 1: There are layers and layers and layers. Mars was Coco

1056
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: co co extruded?

1057
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 6: All right, Well that's a pretty surprising, sir, And thank

1058
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 6: you to Catherine Johnson for helping us out.

1059
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: And it just goes to show you how many surprises

1060
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: are out there waiting in our own backyard or in

1061
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: our neighbor's backyard.

1062
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 6: And you just have to go out there and check,

1063
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 6: or at least, you know, spend a few billion dollars

1064
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 6: billing a little robot that does.

1065
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 14: It for you.

1066
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, build a big robot and use it to

1067
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: investigate your neighbor's backyard.

1068
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 6: See how that goes, See how that works out. You

1069
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 6: might call these solar system police on.

1070
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: You use it to steal their peanut butterfield pretzels.

1071
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 6: Or their vapen so you can do some experiments at home.

1072
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 6: All right, Well, we hope you enjoyed that and came

1073
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 6: away thinking that maybe the even our own backyard is

1074
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 6: not what it seems sometimes.

1075
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: So keep exploring, keep asking questions, and thanks for tuning in.

1076
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 6: See you next time.

1077
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1078
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1079
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

1080
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:15,160
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1081
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,480
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1092
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 8: including a free checked bag, two times the miles on

1093
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 8: United purchases and two times the miles on dining and

1094
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 8: at hotels. Become an Explorer and seek out unforgettable places

1095
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 8: while in jowing rewards everywhere you travel. Cards issued by

1096
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 8: JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC subject to credit

1097
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 8: approval offer, subject to change.

1098
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: Terms apply.

1099
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 15: Hear that pumpkin that's fall calling, and the pumpkin spice

1100
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 15: latte is back at Starbucks. From that first sweater to

1101
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 15: late autumn weather, it's all a fall in just one sip.

1102
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 15: Order ahead on the Starbucks app