WEBVTT - How No-fly Zones Work 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome to you stuff you should know front House Stuffworks 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:12.920 dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.560 Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant mad as heck 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.200 and he's not gonna take it anymore. I said heck. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:25.440 I revised a classic movie quote in the heck Yeah, network, Man, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.320 have you ever seen that? Have you seen that recently? 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.400 I've never seen it. It was on Netflix streaming and 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.760 I hadn't mind. Some human passed it up. Well you 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.440 should watch it again because you'll watch it now and go. Man, 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.000 when was this made so far ahead of its time 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.120 as far as like how things are in the media, like, uh, 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.520 coma yeah, but when you watch network back then people 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.919 said things like how ridiculous, like stuff like this could 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.800 never happen. Oh, I see it's prescient, right, very much. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.520 So yeah, I'll have to watch it then. Yeah, it's 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.120 a good one. That's uh is it? Like? Um, what 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.640 is it? What's that Aaron Sorkin show? I don't like 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.960 antwork news Hour? Yeah that just thinks? Is that what 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.200 it's called? News? News Room? Yeah? I didn't care for 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.280 it other than the fact that it stars our guest 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.000 starred Mr Paul Schneider, who's one of my one of 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.000 my boys. So uh, sometimes people accuse that show being preachy. 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:18.720 What do you think? I just I'm not a sworking guy, 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.960 so he's a little worthy for me. I liked west Twink, 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.760 I didn't watch it. You never watched West Wing, not 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.240 one episode. Guarantee you you would like it. You think 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.200 it was he I hate to say this, but it 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.720 was like his his masterpiece from beginning. I'm not kidding, Chuck. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.520 I'm telling you, this is somebody who didn't like Studio sixty, 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.360 who doesn't like Newsroom. West Wing from beginning to end 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.360 was just really great. I'll try it, but I swear 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.240 the way that guy writes, I'm always just like nobody talks. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.520 I'm with you, I'm totally with you. But this cast 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.880 of characters, the characters that he wrote, the actors, they 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.920 pulled it off. I've never seen a shot Paul Schneider 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.400 is not on it. I'm coming to your house this 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.880 afternoon and we're gonna watch them. Okay, okay, uh So 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.960 I guess that's the segue for no flies on. Not 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.360 a bad setup because this is political and presidential. I 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.120 have something, actually, I have a bit of an intro. Okay, well, 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.680 let's let's hear it. You've heard of the Wright brothers 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:22.000 Dayton's Pride, Orville and Wilbur Wright. Oh yeah, can joined twins? Yes, no, 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.600 they weren't. But they did fly. They did build the 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.520 first airplane that flew, and they flew it out at 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.280 Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. And after they had that flight, 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.040 actually I think before they undertook that flight, while they 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.840 were still in the development stage. Uh, they went to 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.080 the United States government and said, hey, War Department, you 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.320 want in on this action. Not once, not twice, but 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.359 thrice did the War Department turn the right brothers down, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.240 say what good our planes in the warfare? Exactly? Luckily 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.840 there was a very smart person heading the Post Office 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.320 Department who said, Okay, maybe you shouldn't drop bricks out 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.200 of airplane down to people's heads, but we could use 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:07.560 this to deliver the mail. Martin ben Ostrin, right, to 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.080 heck with the auto gyro, We're gonna start using this 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.160 Wright Brothers plane to deliver mail. And for three years 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.720 the only aircraft that were in service under the United 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.000 States government was for delivering mail, and then a postal 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:24.360 carrier and as a pilot accidentally dropped a mail bomb 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.080 and they went, wow, that's a good idea, works very well. Yeah, 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:29.760 it didn't take very long for the War Department and 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.639 be like, oh, okay, maybe we should use this. And 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.360 then by nineteen fourteen the aviation section of the Signal 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.120 Corps was set up and all of a sudden, planes 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:42.000 were militarized. Within just years of their invention, they were 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.200 being used to murder people. Yeah, and this article points 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:50.240 out in seven Spanish Fastest dropped a bunch of bombs 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.400 on the town of Guernica. A hundred thousand pounds of 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.960 explosives killed sixteen hundred people. And yeah, well, not only 0:03:58.000 --> 0:03:59.960 was it the explosive, people were running on a town 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.040 and they were gunning them down civilis. Yeah, so that's 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.640 what fascists do. As outrageous and horrible as that is, 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.320 it was definitely the beginning of what would be a 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.080 long romance in warfare with the plane. Yeah, you had 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:18.000 the red baron Eddie Rick and Backer. Uh. They're a 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:23.040 very long, bloody history associated with planes and war. Um, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.800 When the fascists in Spain used planes to take out 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:34.919 a lot of civilians, the world was, you know, appropriately disgusted. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.760 It wasn't a whole lot that could be done, And 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.479 it actually wasn't until the very early nineteen nineties that 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.440 people figured out a way to use planes to thwart 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.039 planes from being used against civilian populations by their own government. Yeah. 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.560 I thought no fly zones had been around long before that, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:53.680 so this was very eye opening. I had no idea 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.640 that it was in the nineteen nineties when they first 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.240 did this. Right, no fly zones are new. They've only 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.599 been used three times. Yeah, I didn't know. Like it 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.720 just seems like there's it's something that they just commonly do, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:05.800 but it's kind of a big deal to issue and 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:07.880 no flies one. And the reason why is because what 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.839 you're doing is intervening in a sovereign nation, undermining the 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.880 power of the ruler of that nation, choosing sides in 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.800 a way you're saying, at the very least, I'm not 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.520 gonna let you just slaughter these civilians. I'm not going 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.599 to cast my lot one way or the other, really, 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.760 but I'm going to protect these civilians. And uh, it 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:31.120 takes a United Nations mandate to to even get started, 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.600 that's right. So, um, you want to talk about the 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.840 first one, yes. Uh, let's harken back to the spring 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.800 of nine. I'm in college drinking a lot of beer. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.080 That's where I first discovered beer. I was drinking a 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.080 lot of beer too, and I wasn't in college. Well, 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.840 I'm just kidding. I was. Um So I remember sitting 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.800 around and watching like this stuff on CNN for the 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.039 first time, like being interested in politics really for the 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.120 first time. Oh yeah, yeah, that's kind of when I 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.400 got into stuff like that. Well, that was the first 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.480 war that was really televised. I mean, Vietnam was, but 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.360 this was the one that This is the first one 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.240 that had like twenty four hour coverage. Was the was 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.160 the first goal four and it was spectacular to watch. Uh, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.000 it was pretty enthralling, especially when you're, you know, twenty 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.640 years old and you're sitting around with your friends drinking beer. Yeah, 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.760 look at that's good. Safe in Athens, Georgia. Um. So, 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.120 what happened There was a guy named Saddam Hussein he 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.320 um was not doing very nice things to the people 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.280 in Kuwait. Well, we'll put and the Curtish minority in 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:42.080 northern Iraq was encouraged by American radio broadcast to two 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:47.520 revolt like take a stand, and so they did, and 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.440 Sadam Hussein Um sent gunships and with napalm and chemical 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.279 weapons and helicopters, because that's that's what you do. That's 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.680 what he does when you have a civilian population that's 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.680 unhappy with your rule. Yeah, and so they fled, basically 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.799 hun the thousands of them, uh Curtish civilians fled Um 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.440 and sort of got wedged there at the Turkish border 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.800 because the turch were like, yeah, we feel for you, 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.520 but stay there, so don't cross over here. They didn't 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.400 have food and water. And H W. Bush President George H. W. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:20.080 Bush and allies in Europe said, you know what, oh boy, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:21.520 I don't know what to do here because we kind 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.720 of encourage these people to do this and now they're 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:25.920 stuck in a between a rock and a hard place. 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.160 And but we really don't think we should invade and 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.640 remove Sadam Hussein like with all of our Mike, yeah, 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:37.200 let's get another ten twelve years exactly. Or we could 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.840 go to the U N in NTE and say, hey, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.200 how about passing a resolution against this guy? Right, they did, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.480 but they did they said, Okay, we're gonna um deliver 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.560 humanitarian aid to these Kurds who are trapped along the 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.640 Turkish border, and Hussain, if you do anything to interfere, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.600 we're going to bomb you. We're going to take on 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.560 your guys that you send an inner fear at the 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.960 very least, right. Um. And not only that, we're establishing 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.880 a safe zone for these people. It's above the thirty 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.320 six parallel. And uh, if you send any planes over there, 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.240 we're gonna take them on. So this is what we're 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.000 going to call a no fly zone. It was the 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.480 first one, and Saddam Hussein went, no fly zone. I've 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.520 never heard of such a thing. That's stupid, And the 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.320 UN said that's because this brand new jerk, right, And 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.640 he's like, oh, I'm the first one. He went first. First, 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.880 he's so um, they did this, and then second no 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.840 fly zone. Um. South of the thirty second parallel was 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.440 established to protect the Shiite Muslims, who also rose up 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.040 under the encouragement of the United States. If you're interested 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.959 in this kind of thing, check out three Kings. It 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.120 was a lot to do about that. It was after 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.959 the uprisings had started, and also after the time the 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.640 United States didn't support them. Remember the one scene where 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.760 when the guy made Markey Mark drink the oil. That 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.440 was hardcore man, a little over the ham fisted of 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.280 David O. Russey. Yeah, you don't like that guy that 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.920 you get problems with him. I like Three Kings a Lot. Okay, 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:05.800 what else has he done? The next thing Silver li 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.440 Ex Playbook he didn't like. I thought it was okay. Yeah, see, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.480 you don't love him, but I like Three Kings a Lot. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.120 I thought that was a good movie. Yeah, me too. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.880 Uh So no fly zone is going on. Sidom Hussein 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.240 violates said no fly zone. He's like, yeah, well, what's 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.800 gonna happen? Let me send some jets up there. And 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.960 we responded by or the coalition I should say, responded 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.760 by shooting down these aircraft or destroying just you know, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.880 military targets on the ground. Because that's, as we found out, 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.480 one of the parts of a no fly zone to 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.439 be effective is to also bomb like radar equipment stuff 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.640 on the ground that can get jets up in the 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.560 air and guide them disabled. Their force can also find 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.720 your jets, So you want to disable their force, like 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.720 you said, but you also want to protect your own force. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.280 The thing was this is very new. Uh The U 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.960 N was a little squeamish at the idea of undermining 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.760 again a sab and ruler, a jerk, everyone agreed, but 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.240 still a sovereign ruler and kind of one of the 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.000 stabilizing forces of the Middle East, whether the US liked 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:12.200 it or not. Um So they just kind of said, yeah, 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.120 protect these people, but just really you got to take 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.520 it all in a case by case basis. Can't be 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.040 the least bit aggressive. You have to be completely reactive. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.480 And even then maybe we should just kind of chase 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.120 him out of the note flies him rather than shoot 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:29.000 him down over time after sortie after sortie after shorty. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:34.600 They started just by attrition, wearing down Hussain's defenses and 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.840 his um, his air force, just because he kept sting 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:39.960 a man and we kept shooting him down until two 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.840 thousand three when we, you know, went in in full 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.160 force and took out something using right, the northern part 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.280 and the southern part of Iraq was off limits to 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.719 Sadam Hussein for twelve years his own country. There is 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.679 a wide swath in the middle that he could move 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.440 around him, but anything else he wasn't allowed. Okay, so 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.880 those are the that's the first use of the not 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:02.199 fly zone ever. Uh. In the early nineteen nineties, when 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:06.880 Yugoslavia broke up, UM, NATO forces said, all right, how 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.679 about another no fly zone. We're gonna authorize this one. 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:15.319 It's nine over the breakaway region of Bosnia and Herzegovina. 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.199 It was called Operation Denied Flight, which is terrible little 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:20.880 on the nose. I just want to talk about on 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:26.200 the David R. Russell named said mission and it was 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:30.160 gonna block Bosnian Serbs who controlled all the military aircraft 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.400 in that region, right, and who were using it against 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.880 all of their neighbors that they were um going to 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:41.160 war against, specifically the um Muslims, Yeah, Serbian Muslims, right, yeah, 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.720 in a big way. Yeah. Um. So the I guess 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.840 NATO undertook that no fly zone was number two. Yeah, um, 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.960 and uh that was a little more aggressive. I believe 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.079 they went after they'd learned from you know, I guess 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.360 about eight years of the Iraqi no fly zone that 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.959 you really and I have to go after like military 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.720 installations and anything that can be used to violate the 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.800 no fly zone, and maybe even go a little step 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:12.280 further as punishment, like not only is is, are we 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.040 gonna shoot down your plane, We're gonna maybe blow up 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.880 your base and pants you right in front of everyone. Right. 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.200 So that was the second no fly zone. The third 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.160 was even more aggressive, Yeah, against Kadafi just a couple 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.040 of years ago, in two thousand eleven, that's right, and 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.160 it lasted about six months, I believe. Yeah, it was 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.560 extremely effective. Yeah. Well that's because they authorized, um quote, 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.840 all necessary measures to protect the Libyan civilians. And that 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.040 was uh, you know, that meant a lot of a 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.720 lot of bombs being dropped, a lot of cruise missiles 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.000 taking out bases on land. And this one was named 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.400 by Angle. It was called Operation Odyssey Dawn. It was 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:58.520 the result of U N Security Council Resolution nine three, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.319 which is confusing because it was carried out in two 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.480 thousand eleven, that's right. But basically it said, you guys, 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:11.360 we think Kadafi is totally not so um and he's 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.760 gonna kill a lot of his own people. Go in 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.480 there and declare all of Libya no fly zone. And 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.400 NATO said, okay, let's do it, right, So US and 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:27.080 British lad NATO coalition kind of took the reins and 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:31.400 turned this six hundred and eighty thousand square mile country, 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:38.439 which is about one point seven million square kilometers UH 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.480 into a no fly zone. All of Libya was a 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.200 no fly zone, all right. So since this is a 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.320 new thing, it's there is no as this article says playbook, 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:51.000 there's not like a exact way that these go into effect. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:52.520 It sort of depends on what you're dealing with, what 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.920 countries you're dealing with. But the first thing that you 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.840 have to do, according to Chapter seven, Article forty two 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.439 of the UN Charter, is UH get the fifteen member 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.400 UN Security Council on board, right, which sounds easy, but 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.679 it's not necessarily because you have five permanent members the UK, France, 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.319 the US, China and Russia. And China Russia loved to 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.720 veto anything that the US, the UK, and UM, France 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.320 are all about UM, which is good, it's called a 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:24.640 balance of power. But UM specifically with Libya, France, or 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.360 Russia and China, they were against it, but they were 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.640 persuaded to abstain from the vote because all it takes 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.840 is one one permanent member nation on the Security Council 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:36.800 of veto and it's done. Yeah. I wonder what that 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.280 persuasion entailed. I don't know. You know, looking the other 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.920 way on human rights violations. Maybe I have no idea, 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.640 but I'm sure it wasn't just as easy as hey, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.040 you might sitting this one out. Sure, no problem, right, 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:53.320 I'm drunk anyway. So, UM, the the UN resolution for 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.280 the Libyan uh no fly zone. UM, it's a pretty 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.560 good example of how this kind of thing can work. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.960 So no flights in Libyan airspace bands all flying unless 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.200 it's a humanitarian mission carrying food or water or getting 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.200 out um for nationals who are in like bad places. Yeah, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.840 you're allowed to do that. Other than that, no fly, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.640 no fly, and um, it's not you don't just shoot 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.240 down any plane on site when you're patrolling the no 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.800 fly zone. If a if a plane is flying in 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.640 Libyan airspace, you want to first figure out if it 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.080 was there accidentally or if it's hostile. And if it's hostile, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:30.960 you go back to the ground and say, hey, man, 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.160 can I shoot this thing down? Yeah? Well, first you 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.640 go figure out who's who's doing the shooting. You know, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.200 you gotta set it all up. Who's gonna be enforcing 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.880 all this I was just jumping ahead of Okay, you 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.280 gotta figure out who's who's in charge of the operation 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.800 basically in the live in the case of Libya, it 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:51.640 was NATO. And um, then you established the rules of engagement, 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.080 which is partially has to do with hey, do we 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.120 shoot first and ask questions later? Do we check passports? 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.600 How's this gonna work? Right? And and like you said, Olivia, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.760 it was pretty aggressive. Um. The first thing that happened 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.640 on day one was the US and I believe the 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:14.120 UK sailed warships off the coast Olibya and started shooting 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:20.640 missiles into Libya's interior, knocking out military installations, radar installations, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.480 as much of the Libyan military is or at least 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.520 air force as could be destroyed. Hundred twelve Tomahawk cruise 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.800 missiles boom, Yeah, each one precisely shot. That's right. And uh, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:35.640 I love the article says the goal is to shape 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.640 the battle space in quotes. Yeah, that's the euphemism. Huh yeah, 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.000 big time. So um, after this, they send in the 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.960 drone surveillance aircraft to check things out. You see what's 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.840 going on? And did you get the impression the US 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.360 is kind of showing off a little bit like we well, 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.800 we've got some missiles we can use. And then after 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.200 we're we'll send in our unmanned drones and make sure 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.520 everything's bombed. And then after that we're going to send 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.600 in radar jamming equipment just in case you have anything 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.240 left on the ground, we'll take care of that too. Yeah, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.080 that was the first like two days. Yeah, and getafis 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.360 his air force was you know, they call them vintage 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.239 jets in this uh in this article, and that's in 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.399 that case, vintage is not a good thing. You know, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.720 it's from the nineteen sixties. It's old gear. Basically, it's vintage, 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:25.560 not retro um. So it's it's still it was effective. 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.440 It worked even beyond the fact that, um, the jets 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.480 were vintage and we crippled the his radar system, his 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:38.600 air force, military installations. Um, there was still a lot 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:44.560 of shoulder launched rockets in Libya and estimated six hundred. 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.440 I believe that like during this time, Kadafi was handing 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.879 out to people who were on his side. Yeah, and 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:55.160 Sadam Hussein famously offered a bounty on any aircraft shotdown 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.760 of like fourteen grand which I thought, why not fifteen? 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.480 You know, Yeah, that was a weird number. I wonder 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.720 if that if that makes like a significant round number 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:09.720 in Iraqi money. You know, it's a lot of yes, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.439 thank you. You shouldn't invest in those, by the way, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.560 that's a big scam invest in denari. You have you 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.680 heard of people doing that? No, it's a thing where 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.080 people buy up Iraqi denari and thinking you're like, they're 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.480 gonna hit it big one day. You shouldn't do that. Why, Yeah, 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.399 it's just you do a little research and it's it's 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.840 sort of one of those scams, is it. Yeah, So 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.000 like if you bought denari from a legitimate currency broker, 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.640 it's still not a good investment. Huh. I know someone 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.240 who did. Oh no, is it possible it's going to 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.159 come back in ten years? A doubt it. Are they 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.200 going to go euro? I don't know. Huh. But yeah, 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.639 that's just a sidebar. Okay, that was a nice one. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.040 Save your money, folks. So we were talking about the 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:56.199 possibility that a NATO jet or any jet patrolling a 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.359 no fly zone could get shot down by some dude 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.480 on the ground. Yeah it hasn't happened, No, but it 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.840 couldn't have to be one lucky shot. It raises one 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.600 of the concerns. Uh, actually it has happened. It hasn't 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.600 happened from somebody on the ground, but it raises a concern, 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:15.680 a risk that, um, we're sending in people again into 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.439 a sovereign nation that maybe he has to deal with 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:23.280 his own problems, and um, we're putting our people in 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:28.159 danger for that. Most people, I think myself included side 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.960 on the idea of going in and protecting civilians from 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.080 certain slaughter. Um, but I do agree that there is 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:41.119 a risk as well in um. Scott McGrady remember him, Yeah, Yeah, 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:45.000 during the Balkan War. Uh, during that no fly zone 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.199 he was shot down I guess by a Serbian plane. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.159 Uh it was a surface to air missile. But okay, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.560 so somebody has shot down somebody from the ground. Well 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:56.560 I don't know if it was a person. Okay, Well 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.359 he was shot down patrolling a no fly zone and 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.040 h he was in very big trouble for a little while. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.520 Had he not been quite the survivalist, who knows what 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.439 would have happened. Because the Serbs were hot on his 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.600 trail and he spent six days evading them. Yeah, he 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.760 did a really good job and hero. Yeah, he ate 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.720 ants and lived on collected rainwater and avoided the bad 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:22.119 guys and eventually got through uh A radio signal and 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.879 Gene Hackman picked up Gene Haman was like, we're going 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.200 to get you out of there. Yeah, uncommon Valor. Man. 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.679 That was the Gene Hackman was in the Ohen Wilson 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:33.840 movie too, Was he really? I'm pretty sure he was 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.360 the one that was in charge of saving him. Oh man, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.880 well he's he's always going in and save him an 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:41.440 uncommon Valor. It was his son who was a Yeah, 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.640 Vietnam Pio w Right. That's good, Randall tex Cob Yeah, 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.240 what was his name in it? I don't remember that. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:50.840 That movie came out at a great time for me though. 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.160 It was the perfect age. He wore like a live 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.440 grenade around his remember, yeah, that's the second time we 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.800 talked about Uncommon Valor and like two months When was 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.480 the other one? I remember? I don't remember. I remember 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:06.840 talking about it and probably when what happens if the 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:12.480 earth stops spinning? Yeah? Probably so. Um, so you got 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.920 anything else? I guess. We had the opportunity to to 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.560 really invade Libya, and in President Obama said, you know what, 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.840 let's not do that. Um, let's not do the regime 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.639 change game. Well, a lot of people are like, we 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.800 shouldn't be there in the first place. A lot of 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:30.919 other people are like, this is a half measure. If 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.840 you're gonna go do that and just wipe out somebody's military, 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:35.800 you might as well do a ground invasion and take 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.200 over and top all the regime. Like you said. Obama 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.080 was like, no, let's give it a shot. And he 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.720 was proven right in Libya at least, because even if 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:46.679 you take out their air defenses and their air offenses, 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.399 I guess they still have way better weaponry and stuff 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.520 on the ground than these uprising forces do. And it 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.159 worked in Libya. It didn't necessarily work in the Balkans. 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.600 A lot of people point to Um the slaughter at 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:11.760 um Sribrenica. Yeah, seven thousand Muslim U boys and men 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:18.040 were killed yea by the Bosnians being Yeah, who are 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.439 being tried for war crimes because of it. But the 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.880 no FLI zone didn't do anything to prison prevent it. 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.960