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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always as

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuckers Bryant, thank you, and Jerry of course

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Speaker 1: Hi Jerry. She's waving at omni President Jerry and Omniscient.

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Speaker 1: Scarily enough, Josh, before we get going, can I just

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Speaker 1: mentioned a little TV show coming up? I thought we were,

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Speaker 1: as you going, No, we're not quite going. Oh, there's

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Speaker 1: a TV show that our parent company, Discovery, specifically the

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Speaker 1: Science Channel has about a great fall tradition in Delaware

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Speaker 1: where they chunk punkins, punkin chunking, punkin chunking and actually

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Speaker 1: hurl these things through the air with a catapult and

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Speaker 1: it's fun and that they've done a TV show on it,

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Speaker 1: and it's on They did two TV shows, Buddy two, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: say it's say the names. Well at eight o'clock on

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Speaker 1: the Science Channel, it's Eastern time. There's going to be

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Speaker 1: the road to punkin Chunking and where does that road

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Speaker 1: lead to punkin chunk in itself? At nine and that

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Speaker 1: is Thanksgiving Night on the Science Channel and Science Channel HD. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we just wanted to say watch it, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: we like Chunking Punkin's Punkin Chunking. And now we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about whatever. You're gonna cleverly set it up as

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Speaker 1: all right, you ready? Yes, Hey, Chuck, Hey Josh. Have

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Speaker 1: you have you ever heard the phrase the low man

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Speaker 1: on the totem pole? I have, and you know what,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. So it's usually too it's it's usually somebody

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Speaker 1: who's the grunt. They're at the bottom, they're they're just

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Speaker 1: it's us. Okay, there you get lowman on the totem pole.

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Speaker 1: Not true if you're suggesting that you and I are

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Speaker 1: at the bottom of the heap. True, I had I

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Speaker 1: know what you mean. It's actually on totem poles, the

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Speaker 1: lower uh carvings were actually of the most high esteem. Right.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. You do now and I do too,

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Speaker 1: because we read an article called how totem poles will work.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I think we should start using the

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Speaker 1: correct version of that, just to confuse people. I get

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Speaker 1: on the elevator like house work. Oh well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm the lowman on the totem pole Like, sorry, you're like,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Them? The VP? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Things are great? Right? Or when one of the higher

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Speaker 1: ups walks by, go, there goes the lowman on the

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Speaker 1: totem pole. Exactly, give me some skin. What happened? Did

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Speaker 1: they get fired? So? Yeah? Okay, well, Chuck and I

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Speaker 1: are going to start confusing people after this, But let's

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Speaker 1: talk about total poles first. Okay, let's do. I learned

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in this one that I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: Everything I read in here I learned because I knew

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Speaker 1: nothing about totem poles. Really, have you ever seen him? Well,

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Speaker 1: I've seen him, but I didn't know anything aside from

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Speaker 1: you know, to pole. All right, well, let's talk. Let's

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Speaker 1: share this information that we've we've learned, let's impart it.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things I learned, besides lowman on

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Speaker 1: the totem pole being actually important, um, is that the uh,

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Speaker 1: the natives Native Americans actually had socioeconomic strata. Yeah, stratum.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that either, strata one of the two. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I did, And I know what you're talking about here,

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Speaker 1: because totem poles were typically commissioned by people of esteem

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Speaker 1: and people had money, right, people who wanted to show

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Speaker 1: off basically uh, And what they would do would be

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Speaker 1: to commission a totem carver who was a person of

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Speaker 1: very high authority a littlement on the totem pole and

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Speaker 1: might say uh. And the head carver would basically be

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Speaker 1: treated with tons of esteem and respect uh and was

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Speaker 1: housed at the home of the person who had commissioned them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and basically retreated like royalty. Because I guess this guy

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Speaker 1: could be like, once you've commissioned this, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do it, and if you mistreat me or I am

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Speaker 1: not amused at any point in time him, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to carve you naked on this and you have to

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Speaker 1: put it up. Yeah, I got this. That is the

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Speaker 1: law of the Pacific Northwest. I got this from this

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Speaker 1: that totem pole carvers were like many temperamental artists. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of funny how they had that same attitude, like

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Speaker 1: it's cross culture. If you don't make me happy, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna ruin your commission work and shame you right with

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Speaker 1: a shame pole right, well, not necessarily boiler. So the

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Speaker 1: other thing I learned is that, um, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: introduce every point with that for this whole podcast. Another

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Speaker 1: thing I learned is that um totem poles haven't been

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Speaker 1: around that long. No, I did not know that either,

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Speaker 1: And I will say that at the end of every

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Speaker 1: time you mentioned that that I didn't realize that they

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Speaker 1: have just started in the seventeen hundreds. Late seventeen hundred

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Speaker 1: and when the Europeans came over is when they really

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Speaker 1: really started booming. They think the Hida tribe h a

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Speaker 1: i d a tribe of south eastern Alaska were the

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Speaker 1: first to start carving totem poles, and I guess it

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Speaker 1: was kind of slow going at first, but really picked

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Speaker 1: up once UM settlers colonists started hitting the Pacific Northwest

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Speaker 1: and more and more numbers because they brought with them tools. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but they were a little frightened by them. They were,

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Speaker 1: which is funny because from what I understand, UM European

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Speaker 1: settlers were among the most superstitious, easily frightened, and most

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Speaker 1: suspicious people ever to populate the earth. Seriously. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: they saw totem poles and I think Captain James Cook

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Speaker 1: had a famous quote, right, Yeah, he said that they

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Speaker 1: were truly monstrous figures, yes, and he was wrong. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then you also have the superstition or myth that

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Speaker 1: totem poles were used to ward off or worship evil spirits,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you felt towards your native neighbors. No,

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Speaker 1: what is a totem pole, Chuck, Well, a totem pole? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And totem, by the way, is an ojibwa a word?

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Speaker 1: Is it really? Josh actually winked at me, by the way.

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Speaker 1: Just then for reels a totem pole, Josh. Many times

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Speaker 1: it's used to commemorate an event, like Um, I looked

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Speaker 1: some of these up. What it might commemorate a funeral,

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Speaker 1: sometimes childbirth, marriage, and even monarchy. No, yes, no, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I read that that is true. And Uh. They could

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Speaker 1: range in size initially, and I didn't know this either.

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Speaker 1: They could be as small as like a walking cane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: way smaller than I thought I thought they were. They

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Speaker 1: were all like extremely large. No, they definitely vary inside

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Speaker 1: as I've seen some that are like kneehigh to a grasshoppers,

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Speaker 1: you like to say. And then there's others that are,

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Speaker 1: you know, a hundred and seventy ft tall, which we'll

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Speaker 1: get into the world records here shortly too, and not

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Speaker 1: just any No, no jackass can come along and carve

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Speaker 1: some wood up and say I just made me a

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Speaker 1: total pole. There are some very specific, um, I guess

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Speaker 1: details that have to be followed for a total pole

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Speaker 1: to truly be considered a total pole. Yeah, to be authentic, Josh,

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Speaker 1: it needs to be the work of a trained Pacific

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Speaker 1: Coast carver Pacific Northwest Pacific normally more specific and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: no San Diego carvers up there, forget them. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: must be raised according to the specific American Indian traditions

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Speaker 1: and ceremonies. There's a ceremony that goes along with it,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to. And it must be blessed by

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Speaker 1: natives of the Northwest specific coast. Plus also, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: hurt your case if you want to prove that you

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Speaker 1: have a an authentic totem pole, that it be made

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Speaker 1: from your redd or yellow cedar. Ah. Well, sure you

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Speaker 1: can't use you can't use power tools or chainsaws. Well

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Speaker 1: they do now, but if you really you didn't, You

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Speaker 1: just wasted your time if you were trying to make

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Speaker 1: an authentic totem pole. Um. And there are certain colors

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Speaker 1: they're traditionally followed red, black, yellow, blue, green, white, um,

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Speaker 1: which I find to be an unappealing color combination. Those

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Speaker 1: those four or five. Yeah, you know it said they

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Speaker 1: did not need to be painted. And I've never seen

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Speaker 1: a natural totem pole, but I think that would be

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Speaker 1: my preference. Yes, and you can't preserve it in any way.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that either, which means that total poles

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Speaker 1: ain't gonna be around all that long. An authentic total

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Speaker 1: pole has a lifespan of about a hundred years, especially

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Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest where it's wet, rainy, muggy, not

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Speaker 1: good on on carved wood. Yeah, that's not bad. Tho

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Speaker 1: hundred years is pretty good. And did I also say

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Speaker 1: it has to be from one single piece? Oh no,

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Speaker 1: you didn't say that. It's important too, Yeah, of course. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so Chuck, Basically, we've established that totem poles are there's authentic,

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Speaker 1: and there's an authentic ones. You can't just be some

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Speaker 1: jackass with a chainsaw. Um. They are the bar or

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Speaker 1: bob mitzvah of the Native American culture, with the ceremony

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Speaker 1: and the shore and um that they are commissioned, usually

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Speaker 1: by a wealthy Native American by a head carver. So

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Speaker 1: you've got the head carver, he's got a couple of

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Speaker 1: junior carvers, and they get to work. And here we

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Speaker 1: reach why the low man on the total pole is

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Speaker 1: actually the most prominent figure. Why because the head carver

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Speaker 1: carves the lower parts of the totem pole. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: first ten feet. And I would and it's just a guess,

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Speaker 1: but I would say probably because they don't want to

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Speaker 1: stand on whatever you need to stand on. That's part

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Speaker 1: of it. It's also that's also the most visible and scrutinizeable. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good point. Okay, So the carver finishes and and probably

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Speaker 1: some of the stuff that he's put on there, there's

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Speaker 1: some uh basically uh, he'll say, tell me about your

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Speaker 1: family history? Yeah, yeah, what kind of birds are you

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Speaker 1: fond of? Right? Do you have any ancestor who has

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Speaker 1: ever shape shifted into an animal? And the the carver

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Speaker 1: is going to take all this into account. The person

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Speaker 1: who commissioned it will probably have some ideas and then

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Speaker 1: they combine them and you have things like eagles, thunderbirds, bears, owls, wolves, ravens, frogs,

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Speaker 1: and each one kind of has a different meaning in

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Speaker 1: Native American culture. Sure should we go with those briefly? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: the eagle obviously flies higher than any other bird, and

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Speaker 1: it can spot trouble, so that's a good thing. And um,

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Speaker 1: the thunderbird is a mythological creature and it can create

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Speaker 1: lightning and thunder by beating its wings and blinking, which

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Speaker 1: is why it's mythological. Yes, bear obviously teaches natives certain

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Speaker 1: things like, um, how to hunt salmon and how to

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Speaker 1: forge for barry, So that's probably good luck to have

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Speaker 1: on your pole. Um. Owls are represent souls of the deceased.

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Speaker 1: So that might be a mortuary pole. Oh, actually, no,

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Speaker 1: that is when the ashes are actually in the pole, correct, right,

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Speaker 1: that's the type of poll. There's a there's a entry

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Speaker 1: way totem pole, which is kind of like a coat

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Speaker 1: of arms. Um, and that's what that's what A lot

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Speaker 1: of the early settlers of the Pacific Northwest took these

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Speaker 1: ass as a coat of arms, like family coat of arms. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you've got entry way totem poles, mortuary poles, which

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Speaker 1: actually do have a hollow cavity to put the ashes

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Speaker 1: of a dead person in. Yeah, it's like an urn basically.

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Speaker 1: Yet a very cool urn, a very tall urn. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then there's ridicular shame poles like you mentioned, right.

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Speaker 1: That's what I want to bring back, the shame pole. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Chuck, talk about the most famous when the Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Pole in sex Men, Alaska. Yeah, this is when um

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know to see this. Here's another thing.

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Speaker 1: I learned Native Americans had slaves. The the the Lincoln

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Speaker 1: poll was actually uh to shame the US government because

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Speaker 1: of the Emancipation Proclamation in eighteen sixty three. And many

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Speaker 1: members of the is that Lingott is that I was

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Speaker 1: pronounced the Lynott tribe Lingot. I think the team might

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Speaker 1: be silent, but they're they're slaves were freed. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that Native Americans had slaves. I know, That's what

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Speaker 1: I just said. Neither did I. And so they got

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Speaker 1: all mad and said, you know what, we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: a Lincoln poll and it's gonna shame President Lincoln for

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Speaker 1: the Emancipation proclamation. Actually that's not true. I guess I

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Speaker 1: did know that they would capture other people in battle

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Speaker 1: and force him into slavery. I didn't know that. Okay, So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: we've got the type of pole established what we know

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Speaker 1: what's on the pole and it has to be raised. Now, well,

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Speaker 1: this is when the fund starts, the rowdy fund. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the potlatch. And a potlatch is basically

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Speaker 1: a big whopping party that you raise the pole. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you put it near the ground and you have the

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Speaker 1: ropes and you pull it up and sink it into

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Speaker 1: the ground and then it's it sounds like from what

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Speaker 1: I researched on potlatches, it's just a big freaking party.

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Speaker 1: So now we've reached a the Native American equivalent of

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Speaker 1: a bot mitzvah and an Amish barn raising put together.

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Speaker 1: How did they do the same thing? Well, the Amish

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Speaker 1: raised barns is a big communical event. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen witness? Yeah? But they have a big party, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well an Amish party. Everyone eats sandwiches and drinks lemonade. Sure.

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Speaker 1: And the reason we can get away with that is

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Speaker 1: because no Amish person will ever hear this podcast, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And if you write in and say your finding because

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Speaker 1: you're Amish, then you're a liar. Liar alright, So chuck um.

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Speaker 1: They have a great party, and apparently it does get

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Speaker 1: rowdy as I alluded to before, because the Canadian government

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Speaker 1: actually banned potlatches at some point in time, UM, and

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Speaker 1: they that had a really deletrious effect on the number

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Speaker 1: of totem poles that were carved and raised in North

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Speaker 1: America and then in the twentieth century, because a totem

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Speaker 1: pole without a potlatch is like a donut without a hole,

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Speaker 1: very much so it's like a jelly donut. UM. And

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Speaker 1: that's not the only reason that that totem pole carving

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Speaker 1: declined in the twentieth century, and actually it came close,

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Speaker 1: very close to the point of extinction. UM. The Native

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Speaker 1: American children were not being educated in traditional means any

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Speaker 1: longer in the traditional ways, UM, so they were losing

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Speaker 1: that knowledge of how to carve a decent thunderbird. There

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Speaker 1: were in a lot of head carvers that were being

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Speaker 1: trained any longer. UM. Atari is a huge is generally

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Speaker 1: pointed to is one of the biggest reasons the total

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Speaker 1: pole raisings declined. UM. And there was also a ton

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Speaker 1: of theft by museums and private people. I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: about it, but just go steal totem poles for their

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Speaker 1: own collections. It's how do you hide a totem pole.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you're really trying to. You just say

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Speaker 1: you've been exploited by my people a really long time.

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Speaker 1: I'll just take this and get away with me. Go.

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Speaker 1: It was so rampant, in fact, that in President George H. W. Bush,

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Speaker 1: Herbert Walker, yeah, Herbert Right Bush signed the Native American

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Speaker 1: Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, and it basically said, if

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Speaker 1: you've ever stolen a totem pole, take it back. And

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Speaker 1: people did. And as a result of this kind of

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Speaker 1: renewed enthusiasm for totem poles, we lost our puritanical fear

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Speaker 1: of them. People started carving him again. You know what

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Speaker 1: else is in that bill? What wire tappings? Bad? Total

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Speaker 1: poles back and talk openly on your phone? Right? Um? So, okay,

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Speaker 1: So there's a resurgence in totem pole creation, right, in

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Speaker 1: native and non native. Right. So let's say, Chuck, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I want an authentic totem pole to talk about my

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Speaker 1: daughter's monarchy. Well, then, like anything else, Josh, you would

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Speaker 1: get on the internet and search totem pole carving, and

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Speaker 1: you would find some people that do that for a living, right,

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Speaker 1: some Native and some non native. Yeah, depending on So

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Speaker 1: if I wanted an authentic one, how much am I

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Speaker 1: going to show out? Josh? You would have to pay

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Speaker 1: about grand to a hundred grand rageous? Yes, I won't

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Speaker 1: pay more than ten thousand dollars you sa, Charlatan Minachia,

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Speaker 1: No Minachi. Uh so yeah, that's and I think, um, like,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty bucks is the low end of

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Speaker 1: a non authentic three foot pole, right in about fifteen

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Speaker 1: grand for twenty ft right, non authentic, non authentic? Right?

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Speaker 1: But you know who knows? No one knows. Yeah, Josh,

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about the records. Yes, this is

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Speaker 1: that heavy, Chuck, and that heavy each Everything that comes

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Speaker 1: out of Chuck's mouth right now is a statistic, right,

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Speaker 1: Chuck Richard and South Korea, Good luck here, buddy, um

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Speaker 1: Albert Babe British Columbia had a has a hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy ft tall, hundred seventy three foot tall totem. It's

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Speaker 1: got to be the world's tallest totem pole. Right, No

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Speaker 1: think again, sir, because uh there was one that the

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Speaker 1: Guinness Book certified at one hundred and eighty five ft.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be the world's tallest totem Victoria, British Columbia.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, it was torn down because of controversy.

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Speaker 1: The town evidently got really upset about all the grief

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Speaker 1: about the Guinness Book record and was it authentic and

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Speaker 1: was it the really the tallest one. So an angry mob,

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Speaker 1: from what I gather, led by motabatd tear down this

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Speaker 1: totem pole and cut it up into pieces and burn it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the record holder. There goes the grief. I mean, how

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Speaker 1: much grief could it have caused? I don't I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's gotta be Um. I've been to Victoria.

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Speaker 1: It's not exactly like a rough and tumble town. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty peaceful. Um, so I imagine there must have been

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Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of grief. I guess so, or they

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Speaker 1: hadn't put their chainsaws to you slately and we're looking.

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Speaker 1: You know, Betty was hungry, right. But the thickest pole

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Speaker 1: Josh is not disputed. That is in British Columbia as well,

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Speaker 1: and that was carved by Richard hunt In and it

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Speaker 1: has a diameter of six feet. That is one thick pole. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I'd like to say Richard hunt. If you listen

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Speaker 1: to this podcast, I would like to see a picture

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Speaker 1: of your totem pole. Yeah, seriously, so email, it's conture.

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Speaker 1: We'll give the email address at the end. Right now,

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Speaker 1: Is that the end? I think? So you got any

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Speaker 1: more on totem poles and I got nothing else. I

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Speaker 1: like the ones with the wings. I'll just say that.

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Speaker 1: I like at the top, like a thunderbird with the

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Speaker 1: wings coming off the side. It makes sense to have

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Speaker 1: them at the top. But that's at least important. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So well, if you want to know more about totem poles,

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Speaker 1: and I kid you not, Chuck and I learned a

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Speaker 1: lot of surprising facts that we're just kind of in

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Speaker 1: between the lines of this article. It happens a lot

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Speaker 1: on how stuff works dot com. You can type totem

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Speaker 1: poles into the handy search bar of our venerated site.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I guess it's time for a listener mail,

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Speaker 1: right Yes, Josh, I'm just gonna call this. I like

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Speaker 1: to read these um funny emails from time to time. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this guy is really funny. He's a good writer, he's clever,

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Speaker 1: so he gets on the air. This is uh, this

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Speaker 1: says Hey, guys, I've been traveling backwards in time, and

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Speaker 1: I'm writing you from February two thousand nine, where Haiku

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Speaker 1: Theater ends abruptly with refrigerator and sayings like the Germans

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Speaker 1: compass head and it's a poncy scheme haven't even been

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Speaker 1: uttered yet by some strange quirk. When I load your

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Speaker 1: podcasts into my iPod, they play back in reverse chronological order,

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Speaker 1: giving me side effects like hearing listener mail for episodes

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Speaker 1: that haven't even mentioned or haven't happened yet. However, unless

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Speaker 1: I start tattooing myself like the guy Memento, I'll probably

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Speaker 1: just keep things the same, as it makes listening even

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Speaker 1: more fun. And we've heard this before. The people listen

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Speaker 1: out of order and they liked that better. I'm no

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Speaker 1: stranger to self imposed odd circumstance. For instance, I've purposely

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Speaker 1: used my mouse left handed, even though I'm right handed.

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Speaker 1: I sometimes reason things out while I'm dreaming. I often

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Speaker 1: balance on one leg while brushing my teeth. Like this guy,

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Speaker 1: I learned to read things upside down, and he has

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Speaker 1: also run into some groovy things, like when I was

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Speaker 1: in the army, I knew a guy who saw things

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Speaker 1: upside down and backwards, and he learned to cope by

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Speaker 1: writing things upside down and forwards, or I guess right

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Speaker 1: side up upside down. I once dated a girl whose

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Speaker 1: mother would eat the same thing for every meal for

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Speaker 1: a period of time. Two weeks of hard boiled eggs

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Speaker 1: for every meal, black licorice for three days straight, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And I once worked with a guy who owned a

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Speaker 1: car that wouldn't make left hand turns. He's my favorite dude,

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Speaker 1: uh and basically he's leading up to a request. All

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Speaker 1: of this makes me wonder if you should do a

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Speaker 1: podcast on something like how living Strangely works, an explanation

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Speaker 1: of odd things that people choose to do which may

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Speaker 1: or may not actually provide tangible benefit to their lives.

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Speaker 1: We'll get Fuller to pitch it. Maybe. So so that

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Speaker 1: is from Michael Mack. You're not gonna say my last

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Speaker 1: name on the air anyway. Cracking from Colorado. Nice, thank you, Michael. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very funny. Yeah. If you have a funny email you'd

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Speaker 1: like to send Chuck and I, there are a favorite

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Speaker 1: you can send it to. Oh wait, or if your

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Speaker 1: name is Richard Hunt and you've created the world's thickest

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Speaker 1: totem pole. You can send it to stuff podcast at

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Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com For more on this and

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Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Want more how stuff works, check out our blogs on

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Speaker 1: the house. Stuff works dot Com home page brought to

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Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready,

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Speaker 1: are you