1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Stuffworks dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: am Tracy Vie Wilson and I'm Holly fry So, Holly, 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: when I say Hindenburgh, what do you think of the 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: first time I saw the footage when I was a 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: kid and just being sort of a dog at the 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: things on fire falling from the sky. Yeah, it's pretty dramatic, 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: it is. I feel like that that's a lot of 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: people's some knowledge of the Handenburg is fiery explosion, all 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: the humanity, and really none of the before or after 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: kind of sticks with people quite that much. Yeah. I 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: think that one chunk of footage is shown so much 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: that it's really what imprints on people. Even if there 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: is discussion pre role or post roll of the footage, 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: that's not what's getting into your brain at that point. 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: You're just remembering those really stark back and white images. 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: It's drowned out by the fiery descent of this huge zeppelin. 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: So this podcast is publishing on the seventy six anniversary 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: of the Hindenburg disaster. It's one of those things everybody 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: has seen and heard the footage and you know, they've 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: heard all the humanity and like the meme that all 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: the humanity has become in American culture. Uh. During the 23 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, people were really trying to find an 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: efficient and reliable way to travel across oceans, and for 25 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: a while it looked like airships were going to be 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: the way to go. You could do it by boat, 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: but it would take you a week basically of your 28 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: life to go across the Atlantic Ocean by ship. Um 29 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: and passenger planes. They hadn't developed pressurization technology for commercial 30 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: aircraft yet, so airplanes had to fly lower in the sky. 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: It was not very efficient, and it was really dependent 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: upon the weather because planes couldn't fly higher than the 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: weather system. So it was really looking like airships were 34 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: going to be the way that people were going to 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: get back and forth between continents. Basically, well, they were faster. 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: They were also much faster yesh than water by a 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: long shot, and they could carry people in pretty posh 38 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: surroundings like it was a relatively comfortable ride. Um. But 39 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: of course, as we know, the airship as the luxury 40 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: travel icon was very very brief because there were multiple disasters. Yes, 41 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: the the Hemmenberg was kind of the capstone of the 42 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: long disaster history. It was huge and gramatic and captured 43 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: on film, which all factored into it kind of signaling 44 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: the end of airship travel. Yes, so the Hemdenberg was 45 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: designed and built by the Zeppelin Company or if you 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: are in German and please pardon my terrible German pronunciation, 47 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: left ship Bow Zeppelin g mbH. Its interior was designed 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: by German architect Fritz August brow House the Grout and 49 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: it was actually named after Field Marshal and President Paul 50 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: von Hendenberg, who was actually the man that appointed Hitler 51 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: the Chancellor of Germany. And at one point the German 52 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: propaganda minister attempted to have it named the Hitler instead 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 1: of the Hendenburg. Uh. And it did have giant swastikas 54 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: on the tail. Yeah, I think a lot of people 55 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: kind of forget that this was a Nazi aircraft pretty 56 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: much through and through. You know, it was used in 57 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: Germany before it started its transcontinental flights. It was used 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: in Germany on propaganda flights around Germany for four days, 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: emblazoned with giants, watts, swastikas, um. They were internal strifes 60 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: between the Zeppelin Company and the Nazi government. UM. And 61 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons that the investigation, which we'll 62 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: talk about in a bit went on for so long. UH. 63 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: The Zeppelin Company started construction of the Hendenburg in friedrich Schaffen, 64 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: Germany in one It was the largest rigid airship that 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: was ever built. It was eight hundred feet long more 66 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: than eight hundred feet long, which almost as long as 67 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: three football fields American football fields for the those of 68 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: you who live elsewhere. UM. It was powered by four 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: diesel engines and the frame was filled with seven million 70 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: cubic feet of hydrogen gas contained in sixteen shells inside 71 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: the ship. UM. These like cells. They were like big bags, 72 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: and they were coated with gelatin so that the gas 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: would be less likely to escape. And they also the 74 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: these rigid airships, including the Hennenberg, also used water as 75 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: ballast when trying to negotiate exactly how high it was flying. 76 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: And just so people have a sense of the kind 77 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: of modern differences, because there are still some air ships 78 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: we see, like the Goodyear Blunt flying over sports events. UM. 79 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: Today's blimps are really balloons. But the Mburg was truly 80 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: a Zeppelin because it had the rigid interior frame UM 81 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: that gave it that characteristic shape, and that frame was 82 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: made of Dura lumen, which is an alloy of aluminum, 83 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: copper and other metals. It's possible that this dr lumin 84 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: that was used in the Hennenberg came from the wreckage 85 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: of a previously crashed zeppelin, the British R one oh one, 86 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: that had been destroyed in its own fiery crash in 87 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: It's on the record that the Zeppelin company bought the 88 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: Dura lumen, but it's a little unclear as to whether 89 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: that particular der allumin wound up being used in the 90 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: skeleton of the Hennenburg. And regardless of whether parts from 91 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: UH the R one oh one crash made their way 92 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: into the Hindenburg, UH, that R one oh one vessel 93 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: is actually the reason the Hendenburg was so very big, 94 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: because the crash of that previous vessel was actually pretty smooth. 95 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: Um survivors didn't feel a lot of impact, but almost 96 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: everyone on board died after it caught fire. It wasn't 97 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: the impact but the fire that actually got them. Everyone 98 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: reached the logical conclusion that using highly flammable hydrogen to 99 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: keep an airship afloat was a terrible idea. Hydrogen was 100 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: to be replaced with helium, but helium is of course 101 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: heavier than hydrogen, so helium airships consequently had to be 102 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: bigger to hold more of the gas to compensate and 103 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: have lift. The problem arose when Germany didn't have its 104 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: own supply of helium to be filling up these airships. 105 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: The United States had plenty of helium but was really 106 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: just not inclined to hand over lots of helium to 107 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: the Nazi government. So since the Germans couldn't get enough 108 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: helium to fill the Hendenberg, they had to go back 109 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: to using hydrogen instead. So the Germans couldn't get enough 110 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: helium to fill the Hendenburg, so they had to go 111 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: back to using hydrogen instead, and extreme care was taken 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: inside of the Hindenburg to prevent sparks from igniting the hydrogen. 113 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: There were ventilation systems on the inside to to vent 114 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: any any hydrogen that did escape if inspections would be 115 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,559 Speaker 1: performed by people who were wearing asbestos suits and little 116 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: felt shoes that they didn't make sparks. All of this 117 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: to try to cut down on the risk of a 118 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: giant explosion, and the outside of the ship was covered 119 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: in a skin that was made of cotton that had 120 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: been coated with a paint which was also called dope 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: at the time to make it waterproof, and that dope 122 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: contained iron oxide and aluminum powder, which combined will form thermite. 123 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: Thermite burns really really well and at a very high temperature. 124 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: So it was not really the best planning and thought 125 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: process to cover an entire dirigible that is containing highly 126 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: flammable gas with it. Let's have a highly flammable gas 127 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: contained in something that is also highly flama highly flammable. 128 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: There are lots of measures taken to try to make 129 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: things safer, but obviously that they could not account for 130 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: anything for everything. So if you look at pictures of 131 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: the Handenburg pre disaster, you'll see little slits near the 132 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: bottom of it. These are windows that we're looking out 133 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: from the passenger areas, and they were in the belly 134 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: of the zeppelin with the passengers on the upper of 135 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: two decks that were in the bottom of the craft. 136 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: And then the little cabin that you can see near 137 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: the flour of the Hindenburgh, which is on the underside, 138 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: is the control cabin, and that contained the bridge, the 139 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: navigation room, and another observation area, traveling by zeppelin was 140 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: supposed to be the height of luxury, and in this case, 141 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: the height of luxury means that you had a windowless 142 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: interior stateroom that measured seventy eight by sixty six inches, 143 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: that contained a couple of bunks, a wash basin with 144 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: hot and cold running water, a writing desk, and the 145 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: service of a room steward who would come and help 146 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: take care of you. So really, the passenger accommodations in 147 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: a big ocean liner probably would have been more comfortable 148 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: and more spacious and better outfitted, but that trip would 149 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: have taken a whole lot longer, so comparatively speaking, so 150 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: it would only take you two days to get across 151 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: the ocean instead of an entire week. That relatively austere, 152 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: tiny space, it was not too bad. It was the 153 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: trade off that you made, saving you a lot of time. Uh. 154 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: And in addition to the cabins, passengers also had access 155 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: to several common areas, so they weren't stuck in those. 156 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: And this is really that these are the things that 157 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: you would see photos of as as the luxury experience. 158 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: For these common areas, there was a lounge room with 159 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: a grand piano, and that piano was actually made of 160 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: the same aluminum alloy as the ship's frame uh and 161 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: covered with a pig skin to be lighter than a 162 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: traditional grand piano, although that piano was not part of 163 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: the historic and tragic Final Voy, apparently not h The 164 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: ship also had a reading and writing room, a dining room, 165 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: and a promenade with slanted windows where you could get 166 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: a view of the world below. There was also, and 167 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: this one kind of befuddles me, a smoking room. Uh. 168 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 1: So you have all of these explosive, dangerous things, which 169 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: you've taken great care to prevent any sparking happening adjacent 170 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: to you. And then you're like, oh, but you can 171 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: light up. We have a lounge for you. Put some 172 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: put some active fire there in the hands of the 173 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: passengers who theoretically were not trained to handle flammable substances. 174 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: So here's the care that was taken in the smoking room, 175 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: so that the smoking room was not the undoing of 176 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: the entire craft. It was a pressure ized room, so 177 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: it was maintained pressure inside the room so that when 178 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: you opened the door, any hydrogen that was around would 179 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: not get in there. Um. There was one electric lighter 180 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: that was used to light all things that were going 181 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: to be smoked in the room, and passengers were required 182 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: to hand over any matches or lighters that they had 183 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: on their person before they embarked. So there was this 184 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: one place where people could smoke if they chose, but 185 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: pretty strict requirements of keeping that room a safe place 186 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: that was not going to light the whole ship on fire. 187 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: I'm still the fuddled by it. I really have such 188 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: a hard time wrapping my brain around why you would 189 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: be like that's cool. Well, and it's it's just cultural, 190 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: like you would not have a traveling vessel without a 191 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: space for that, right. Well, when you think about how 192 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: still on aircraft, uh, there's the no smoking sign. We're 193 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: still having the no smoking sign on airplanes, which for 194 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: those of us who have been flying mostly in recent years, 195 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: that seems weird. But there was ever smoking on airplane. 196 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: I remember smoking on airplanes when I was a kid 197 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: because it was like a similarly terrible idea, yeah, but 198 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: again not filled with hydrogen. My mother smoked, and I 199 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: remember her like when I was traveling when I was 200 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: quite young, you know, lighting up on the plane. And 201 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: now it's just so bizarre to me to even come 202 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: contemplate that we did that. But so yes, the whole 203 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: room with extreme safety precautions set aside for set aside 204 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: for smoking. So along with the crew quarters, which were 205 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: very small bunks like you would see on an aircraft carrier. 206 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: The lower deck, which was basically in the belly of 207 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: the Zeppelin, contained the galley, the cruise mess washrooms, and 208 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: other necessary facilities. So while everyone remembers the final flight 209 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: the service, the Hannenberg had a service history prior to 210 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: that that was not its first flight, which some people 211 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: I have found when talking to them, they think it 212 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: only flew once, right, But it really had a lot 213 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: of air hours, yes, a lot of safe air hours 214 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: without incident before this happened. Um so Apart from the 215 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: four day propaganda flight in Germany and lots of test 216 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: flights in Germany, the Hndenburg made its first transatlantic voyage 217 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: in ninety six. It flew from Germany to Rio da 218 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: Narrow and this was a round trip that departed on 219 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: March thirty one and returned on April tenth, and Commander S. E. 220 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: Peck was on board as an official observer from the U. S. 221 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: Government UH since the plan was for the Hindenburg to 222 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: potentially provide service between Germany and the naval air station 223 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: in lake Hurst, New Jersey, with connecting service through American Airlines, 224 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: which I did not know prior to prepping for this. Yeah, 225 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: it was a commercial service that that was, you know, 226 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: meant to carry passengers. That's pretty much what it was 227 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: built for, was to carry passengers between Germany and the US. 228 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: Lake Hurst was the United States main airship station. It's 229 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: where America's first airship, the Shenandoah, took off on its 230 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: maiden for voyage, and it's also where a really famous Zeppelin, 231 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: the graph Zeppelin, started and ended a trip around the 232 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: world in um In addition to that round the world flight, 233 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: the graph Zeppelin was in service for nine years and 234 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: in that time it made five and ninety flight including 235 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: a hundred and forty four ocean crossings. Also on board 236 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: was a doctor Hugo Eckner, who was a German aeronautical 237 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: engineer that had worked with Ferdinand Count von Zeppelin on 238 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: the development of airships. Echner was director of the Zeppelin 239 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: Company at the time, so people would knowledge about Zeppelin's 240 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: were there, Yes, So this cann end out. This first 241 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: trip across the ocean wound up being the subject of 242 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: kind of an f li I memo to the Secretary 243 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: of State. Um Peck reported to Hugh Gibson, who passed 244 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: it up to the Secretary of State, but he had 245 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: had several conversations with Eckner about the Nazi government's decisions 246 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: surrounding the Hindenburg while crossing the ocean. Essentially, what Peck 247 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: was letting everybody know was sort of the history of 248 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: of why uh Eckner seems to be falling out of 249 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: favor with the Nazi government, and it had to do 250 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: with basically his trying to put the safety and quality 251 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: of airships ahead of the Nazi government's desire for propaganda. 252 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: There's much bigger story there that maybe will be a 253 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: subject for a future podcast, but it really could be. 254 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: It's a whole intrigue, yeah, a lot of gossipy drama 255 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: about the about about the Nazi government and the various 256 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: people involved with airship design. So the Hendenburgh's first journey 257 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: to Lakehurst, which was the trip it had really been 258 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: designed for, took place h in May of ninety six, 259 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: from May six to May nine, and aboard it were dignitaries, aviators, 260 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: famous people, the media. I mean it was a big 261 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: publicity event in many ways, right it was. It was 262 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: one of those things where you had a carefully selected 263 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: passenger list of notable people and this kind of big 264 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: media event. Before the final tragic journey, the Hendenberg had 265 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: made ten round trips between Germany and the United States, 266 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: carrying one thousand and two passengers along with mail and 267 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: other cargo. Safely, it had traveled for more than two 268 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: hundred thousand miles. But of course we know it did 269 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: have a short life release and then we come upon 270 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:14,479 Speaker 1: the final voyage. Yes, on May third seven, the Hendenberg 271 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: left Frankfurt at seven sixteen am. This was the ship's 272 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: return to flight after being refitted over the winter, which 273 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: is why there were media waiting for it to arrive 274 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: in lake Hurst. There were ninety seven people on board, 275 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: thirty six of those were passengers and sixty one of 276 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: those were crew. The Hyndenburg was running more than ten 277 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: hours late because of thunderstorms. The weather at lake Hurst 278 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: had been bad enough that the ship had flown to 279 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: New York City to give passengers a nicer view while 280 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: waiting for the weather to clear up. So they could land. 281 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,359 Speaker 1: So landing the airship required the captain to very precisely 282 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: balance the ship's hydrogen with its ballast to level it 283 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: off at the right distance from the ground, and then 284 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: two hundred very strong men had to grab mooring lines 285 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: to bring it the rest of the way in. So 286 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: this would have been challenging. Even in great weather, airships 287 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: had been known to catch a gust of wind and 288 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: sail upward, leaving the ground crew to either choose between 289 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: hanging on and hoping for the best, or letting go 290 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: and possibly falling to their deaths. So, uh, it's very 291 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: tricky to land an airship, is the bottom line there. Yeah, 292 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: as much promise as people thought these had for transoc 293 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: oceanic flight, as they were pretty dangerous. Yeah, they had 294 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: a lot of big obstacles that you had to overcome 295 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: with each flight. So at PM, as it reached its 296 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: mooring mast and its mooring lines touched the ground, a 297 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: fire started near the rear of the Hendenburg. It was 298 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: still high off the ground at the time, around um 299 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: or about two feet up, and some people aboard knocked 300 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: out windows and jumped off catwalks in the hope of 301 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: avoiding the fire, so they knew they were trapped and 302 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: they wanted to just take their chance on jumping right. 303 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: The entire airship burned in thirty four seconds. The ground crew, 304 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: which was made of both civilians and navy men, first 305 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: rushed away from the falling wreckage, and then as the 306 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: as the Hendenburg made it to the ground, they ran 307 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: back in to try to pull survivors away, and in 308 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: the end thirty six people were killed, including one member 309 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: of the ground crew. That was one of the things 310 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,719 Speaker 1: that that had never stuck with me, that there were 311 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: actually a lot of survivorsburg me too. I think again, 312 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that we see that brief 313 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: piece of footage and we hear the oh the humanity, 314 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: and it's always counted as a huge tragedy, which it was, 315 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: but it kind of leads to the conclusion that everyone parish. 316 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't look like something that people would survive, but 317 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: there were really a lot of albeit very badly injured, 318 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: but there were a lot of survivors of the of 319 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: the disaster. Herb Morrison was recording radio coverage of the 320 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: landing for the Chicago station w LS, and he is 321 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: the person who uttered the famous All the Humanity, which 322 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: became part of the first radio report ever to be 323 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: nationally broadcast by NBC. There's always been a little bit 324 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: of mystery about what caused the fire, and it was 325 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: an inherently difficult disaster to investigate, since the whole thing 326 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: burned down to the skeleton and the ground crew, the survivors, 327 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: the media and others had really trampled the entire scene 328 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: trying to get people out of there and also get 329 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: away before the military could really establish a perimeter for investigation. 330 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: There was a pretty extensive investigation at the time, which 331 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: was driven both by the disaster itself and the fact 332 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: that the airship belonged to Germany. There was a lot 333 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: of speculation about whether it had been sabotaged or a 334 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: deliberate attack by either people who sympathized with the Jews 335 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: who were living in Germany or anti Nazi groups. There 336 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: were a lot of people who would have had cause 337 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: to make a Nazi ship a target, and so there 338 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of an investigation into whether it had 339 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: been a deliberate act. There were hundreds of pages of 340 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: FBI documents that were declassified in the eighties through the 341 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act, and you can read them all online. 342 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: The general agreement is that a spark from somewhere ignited 343 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: the hydrogen gas, and that the Zeppelin skin, which we've 344 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: already said was also highly flammable, accelerated then the burn 345 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: and that's why it just kind of went up in 346 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: a pretty quick flash. One of the most recent refinements 347 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: of this static discharge theory came about in March. Jim Stansfield, 348 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: who was a Britick British aeronautical engineer, theorized that the 349 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: ship had become charged during the electrical storm, that it 350 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: was sort of skirting the edges of and that when 351 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: the ship got to its moorings it became grounded, and 352 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: that's the spark that resulted ignited a leak of hydrogen 353 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: um that's kind of different from the other. Or maybe 354 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: it was a spark of some kind of machinery on board, 355 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: or a loose wire or some kind of short circuit somewhere. 356 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: That the general consensus is a spark from somewhere. We 357 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: know it's a spark of something, but they've never uh 358 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: conclusively identified what or found clear evidence that it was sabotage. 359 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: So I think this will probably be a mystery with 360 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: many theories forever. Yeah, there's also a MythBusters episode where 361 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: they make a model of the Hindenburg to try to 362 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: recreate it, and it burns much like the real airship 363 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: did when covered in the same paint mixture and when 364 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: it's filled with hydrogen. But when they did the same 365 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: experiment without filling it with hydrogen, it did not go 366 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: up quickly. The question was kind of was it really 367 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: the paint that was the problem? And that the answer 368 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: and that experiment was now that the paint by itself 369 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: does not burn nearly as quickly as the paint with 370 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: this huge source of hydrogen fuel underneath it, and that 371 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: really Uh, that tragedy put an end to the concept 372 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: of commercial airship travel. It really shut on that potential industry. Yeah, 373 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: it had already had a pretty a pretty rocky history 374 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: before that point. While Germany had been using Zeppelin's pretty 375 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: successfully for a long time. UM it had used Zeppelin's 376 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: for military purposes during World War One, although the Treaty 377 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: of Versailles put a stop to that. UM, the German 378 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: government had been using it for commercial purposes after the war, 379 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: and without a lot of horrible things happening, but other 380 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: nations were not quite as fortunate. Um. Some of the 381 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: disasters that happened prior to the Hendenburg were that in 382 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one, the U. S. Navy's z R two 383 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: broke apart and burned and sixty two people died, and 384 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty three the French airship Dixmud disappeared on 385 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: its way to Africa. In nineteen five, the Shenandoah, which 386 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: we talked about a little earlier, broke up during a 387 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: storm and fourteen people were killed. In nineteen thirty, the 388 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: R one one of Britain, which we discussed earlier, the 389 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: one who's dr Lumen may have been used in the Hendenburg, 390 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: caught fire after an emergency crash landing and killed forty 391 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: seven people, including many British airship experts, so they really 392 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: lost like a brain trust of knowledge about airships. In 393 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: NT three, the USS Akron, which was a military airship 394 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: of the U. S. Navy, crashed into the Atlantic Ocean 395 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: and seventy three people died, and the akron sister ship, 396 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: the Makon, crashed into the Pacific in killing two people. 397 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: So there had been pretty much an airship disaster every 398 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: couple of years before the Hendenburg, and the Hendenburg, with 399 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: its dramatic news coverage that was just so startling to 400 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: look at, was really the final straw and the public's 401 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: mind about whether they were going to ever get up 402 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: in one of those things. The U. S. Navy continued 403 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: to use the station at lake Hurst as an airship 404 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: station for anti submarine blimps right up until the end 405 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: of World War Two, and Germany continued to use Zeppelin's 406 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: for propaganda and transport through World War Two. But the 407 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: Zeppelin airship works in Germany were destroyed by the Allies 408 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: during the war and they weren't really rebuilt, so that 409 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: ended German development of Zeppelin's for many many years. Zeppelins 410 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: aren't completely gone though. Zeppelin started being manufactured in Friedrichschaffen 411 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: at German company z lt Zeppelin lu Shift Technique in 412 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: and these Zeppelins are semi rigid and they use helium, 413 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: unlike their rigid and hydrogen filled Hindenburg. We mentioned a 414 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: Good Year blimp at the start of this podcast that's 415 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: actually going to become the Good Year Zeppelin in following 416 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: an announcement in eleven. So we will see things that 417 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: may visually resemble a little bit the Handenberg flying through 418 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: the sky, but no longer potentially fiery catastrophes waiting to happen. Yes, 419 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: hopefully history has taught us enough that modern engineering has 420 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: found safe ways. We're not putting hydrogen in things that 421 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: are going to fly through the sky. It sounds like 422 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: a good plan to me. Ye had it struck me 423 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: as I was researching this, that the Hindenburg and the 424 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: Titanic are stuck together in people's minds as these disasters 425 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: that happened in kind of the same era of history, 426 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: like not immediately next each other, but reasonably goes close 427 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: to a twenty year gap. There's like a twenty year 428 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: gap between them, but they're both They have both this 429 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: air of in hindsight. Of course, you would not want 430 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: to go through iceberg infested waters in this giant ocean liner, 431 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: and of course you would not want to fill something 432 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: flammable with hydrogen and then fled across the ocean. And 433 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: then add to that the fact that both of these 434 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: were supposed to be pretty luxurious experiences unless unless you 435 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: were in steerage on the Titanic. I think that's a 436 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: lot of why they get looped together as because they 437 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: were both kind of going to be the new era 438 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: of travel for the times that they were launching. So 439 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: that's the story of the Himpenburg and I believe you 440 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: also have listener mail for us. Two more pieces of 441 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: listener mail for us. Both of them are about our 442 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: recent episodes on Loving Versus Virginia, which we have gotten 443 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: a lot of great mail about and a lot of 444 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: great feedback on. So thank you everyone for all of that. Um. 445 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: This first one is from Cameron and uh. Cameron says, 446 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to write in since I just listened to 447 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: your awesome podcasts on Loving versus Virginia. I recently went 448 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: over some of this case with my students i'd teach 449 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: high school history. It came up when I was also 450 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: reviewing the thirteenth, fourteenth, and fifteenth Amendments with them when 451 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: we wrapped up reconstruction. Though the language of the fourteenth 452 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: Amendment states, quote, no State shall make or enforce any 453 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens 454 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: of the United States. To reinforce the equal status of 455 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: African Americans, including recently freed slaves, it's important to note 456 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: that section two of this amendment also states representatives shall 457 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: be apportioned among the step real states according to their 458 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: referverse their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons 459 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. The mention of 460 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: Indians is important because the fourteenth Amendment, while making allowances 461 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: for four million plus new citizens I eat freed slaves, 462 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: does not take Native Americans under the same protection. This 463 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: is clear when the country expands westward in the late 464 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and reservations are assigned to people with no 465 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: apparent claim on the land. Native Americans are conveniently not 466 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: considered citizens, which makes it much easier to quote ask 467 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: them to move off their land so pioneers can have it. 468 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to bring this up because I teach high 469 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: school in an area that is classified as the urban core. 470 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: The majority of my students are definitely under the minority 471 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: classification on the Census. I was so proud of my 472 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: students were immediately taking note that forcing tribes off their 473 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: land was just as unfair as telling blacks they don't 474 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: count as people. That in both cases, an entire group 475 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: of people are being judged and persecuted based on being 476 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: different than the whites in charge. So thank you Cameron. 477 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: Such a good letter. Now it's a great letter. So 478 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: number one, it's a great letter. Number two. It was 479 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: pretty startling to me that zero of the things that 480 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: I read while researching that podcast referenced the incongruity between 481 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: section one in section two of the fourteenth Amendment. Like, 482 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: none of them got into it. I feel like that's 483 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: how American history works. Often. You're like, I don't think 484 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: that's exclusive to American history, but it does happen a lot. 485 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: You know. It's kind of um compartmentalized, right, it's totally 486 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: and it's sort of like, and then we gave rights 487 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: to these people, sort of leaving out everyone else who 488 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: did not get right the other we got several so 489 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: we may have other Loving Versus Virginia letters later. But 490 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: the other one that I wanted to read today is 491 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: from James. He says, I've listened to your most recent 492 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: podcast about Loving Versus Virginia as a story buff who 493 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: lives in Virginia, I was surprised that I have never 494 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: learned about this landmark decision back in school, despite the 495 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: fact of at least one year of public schooling is 496 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: dedicated to Virginia history. What makes this even more surprising 497 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: is that I actually actually live in the Northern Virginia area, which, 498 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: in part due to its close proximity to d C, 499 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: is one of the most racially diverse areas in the country. Now, 500 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it would be like if inter 501 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: racial marriage was still outlawed. Also, when I was listening 502 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: to the second part of the episode, I realized that 503 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: the title of the case reminded me of the old 504 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: tourism slogan Virginia Is for Lovers. I was curious if 505 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: you knew if the decision had any bearing on the 506 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: creation of the slogan. The phrase was created and first 507 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: used in advertising by a Richmond based advertising company called 508 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: Martin and Waltz. The slogan was first used in advertising 509 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, two years after the court decision, 510 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: so it would still be fresh in people's minds. I 511 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: did some quick Internet research and the only thing I 512 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: could find that directly referenced the connection was an article 513 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: from last year that when over the history of a slogan, 514 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: and according to the current president of the ad agency, 515 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: there is no connection. Still, it wouldn't surprise me if 516 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: there was a connection, and the ad agency just didn't 517 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: want to advertise it for fear of creating controversy. Still, 518 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: it does seem like other people have noticed the connection since. 519 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: When I was checking the history, I found a book 520 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: about the trial from two thousand four titled Virginia Hasn't 521 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: Always Been for Lovers? So I did some research on this. Also. 522 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: I was hoping to go look back through newspaper articles 523 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: from the sixties to see how much coverage there really 524 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: was of it, like is this a name that would 525 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: be in people's minds the way like Delma is in 526 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: people's minds currently because of the cases that are before 527 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Unfortunately, my newspaper database did not go 528 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: back that far, but I found a couple of other 529 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: articles that were about that particular slogan on various anniversaries 530 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: of its creation. UM And the story that I have 531 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: found several times from several different sources is that a 532 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: copywriter named Robin McLaughlin came up with a concept that 533 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: had lots of different ads that was Virginia, like Virginia 534 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: is for history lovers, Virginia is for beach lovers, Virginia 535 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: is for mountain lovers. UM. And everybody sort of decided 536 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: that was too complicated and too narrow for each ad 537 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: to have a different Virginia is for bloody blah lovers. Um. 538 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: And then somebody said, what if we just said Virginia 539 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: is for lovers and everybody loved that, and the first 540 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: ad mentioning the slogan ran in the nineteen sixty nine issue. 541 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: March nineteen sixty nine issue of Modern Bride was the 542 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: first place that was ever used. Uh. Yeah, it was 543 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: tobitably pitching it as a honeymoon destination. Yeah, well it was. 544 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: It was because the state had done some research and 545 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: realized that most of the travelers vacationing in Virginia were 546 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: fifty years old or older, and the state was like, 547 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: if we were going to make tourism money, we need 548 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: to bring some younger people here, and so this was 549 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: part of an effort to attract younger people. UM. A 550 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: lot of people who worked on the pain have pointed 551 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: out that it was kind of racy at the time, 552 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: but I didn't find any that were from people specifically 553 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: saying oh and then also the Supreme Court case, Yeah, 554 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: so I think it's going to be probably not UM 555 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: if it was intentional on the part of a copywriter. Uh. 556 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: That I think was something that flew under the radar. 557 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: We don't have a record of that being an intent. Yeah, 558 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: and the people making the approvals of it did not 559 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: have that in the forefront of their minds, or I 560 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: think they probably would have said no, giving that Virginia 561 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: was on the losing side of that case. One last thing, yea, 562 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: we have lots of new YouTube channels from many of 563 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: our sister and brother colleagues here. There's been a lot 564 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: of dizziness. Yes, So if you go to YouTube, you 565 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: can see all kinds of awesome new videos from stuff 566 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: mom never told you, stuff you should know, stuff to 567 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: blow your mind, and stuff they don't want you to know. 568 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: So you'll be seeing links from us to those things. Uh. 569 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: And they're fun and they're very fun. Really, I watched 570 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: stuff now, mo. I've never told you at lunch every day, 571 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: but I have to finish eating first so I don't 572 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: choke on my food or spin on the screen. Yes 573 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: while laughing. If you would like to write to us, 574 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: you can. We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. 575 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: We're also on Twitter at mist in history and on 576 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: Facebook at Facebook dot com slash history Class stuff. You 577 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: can find our tumbler at mist in history dot tumbler 578 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: dot com, and we're on Pinterest too. If you would 579 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: like to see some photos of the Hindenberg before and 580 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: during and after it's horrible disaster, we have a brand 581 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: new image gallery on our website, but is of Hindenberg pictures, 582 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: so you can search for that at our website and 583 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: find that in a lot more at our site, which 584 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: is how stuff works dot com. For more on this 585 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works 586 00:33:54,080 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Stuff you Missed in History 587 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: Class is brought to you by Audible