Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: Everybody?
Speaker 1: Welcome to move the sticks? DJ Buck with you Buck.
Speaker 1: First of all, Man, it's been a minute. It's great
Speaker 1: to see you, dude.
Speaker 2: No, it's been a minute. It's been a minutes. This
Speaker 2: has been a two man show when she and I.
Speaker 2: So this is great, man. We get a chance to
Speaker 2: kind of empty the bucket a little bit, have some
Speaker 2: thoughts on a bunch of different things that I haven't
Speaker 2: had a chance to run by you. So it should
Speaker 2: be fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking forward to to getting some notes from
Speaker 1: you too on on the East West on a couple
Speaker 1: of guys that pop down there. So we'll do that
Speaker 1: a little bit later on in the show. I want
Speaker 1: to start, though, with something that I read this morning
Speaker 1: and it echoed what I had heard at the Senior bowls.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's always talking and there's whispers and all
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. But Joe Burrows making the rounds
Speaker 1: today and said, look, I think you know we all
Speaker 1: want to stay together, and that's with T Higgins and
Speaker 1: Gasicki as free agents, you know, including getting the deal
Speaker 1: done that they need to get done. You know, with
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase. So that was something I had heard a
Speaker 1: while back when I was talking about t Higgins with
Speaker 1: the team, and you know, hey, would this makes sense
Speaker 1: for you guys like Jiggins ain't going anywhere. It's like, look,
Speaker 1: he got the same agent. They ended up getting together.
Speaker 1: Him and Jamar have the same representation now because they
Speaker 1: want to stay together in Cincinnati, and Cincinnati has the
Speaker 1: cap for him to do it.
Speaker 2: So it's funny that you said. I was with Donald
Speaker 2: Penn doing some stuff and Donald Penn s there's a
Speaker 2: shame representation as Jamar Chase and Ti Higgins, and he
Speaker 2: told me that they were all together, and so I
Speaker 2: thought that was interesting because when you have guys that
Speaker 2: played the same position on the same team, there's no
Speaker 2: hidden negotiation, Like everyone knows exactly what is being done.
Speaker 2: And if you're gonna split the baby, as they would say, like,
Speaker 2: you now know how to make it equitable for both
Speaker 2: parties because as an agent, you want to make sure
Speaker 2: that both of you guys are happy. And also if
Speaker 2: they share representation, they probably have a good relationship anyway,
Speaker 2: and they want to make sure that their fella person
Speaker 2: is taken care of. But they also want to make
Speaker 2: sure they get fair market value. That is something that
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Bengals would have to negotiate. But let's be
Speaker 2: real when it comes to this thing about Cincinnati and
Speaker 2: what they could do, you and I and you really
Speaker 2: have been kind of leading this this thought. You've always
Speaker 2: said that I would rather be great on one side
Speaker 2: of the ball and figured it out on the other
Speaker 2: side of the ball. And so if you're the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 2: The one thing that we know, despite all their issues
Speaker 2: last year, they were good enough to get into the postseason,
Speaker 2: but they got off to a slow start. But offensively,
Speaker 2: there are few teams that can match up with what
Speaker 2: they have on the offense. When you talk about Higgins,
Speaker 2: Chase Burrow, even if you throw Gaseki in there, I
Speaker 2: would say that they were better when they had a
Speaker 2: Marquee running back in place with Joe Mixon. But that's
Speaker 2: something that they can find. Whatever Chase round is serviceable,
Speaker 2: but they could get an upgraded that spot. But yeah,
Speaker 2: offensively their playoff ready. Now it's about finding a defense
Speaker 2: that's good enough to get you there. Not that you
Speaker 2: have to be a top ten defense, but a middle
Speaker 2: of the pack defense. That plays a certain way. I
Speaker 2: would say if they look towards the Kansas City Chiefs,
Speaker 2: that might be a way to look at how they
Speaker 2: do it. Because before Kansas City loaded up on defense,
Speaker 2: Seespeg Newlah was a big play, splash play defensive coordinator.
Speaker 2: He's playing for a big play, a turnover, a stop
Speaker 2: to throw you off your rhythm, to make you kick three,
Speaker 2: while they had the confidence that their offense were always
Speaker 2: going to put up seven. So yeah, look, I like
Speaker 2: the plan. I like the approach if you have the
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Bengals because in that division, you're gonna have to
Speaker 2: be able to outscore people because it's gonna be hard
Speaker 2: to get into a rocking SoC and robot match with
Speaker 2: the Steelers, the Ravens, those teams, I don't know if
Speaker 2: you're going to beat them the way that they try
Speaker 2: and play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it also brings up a bigger
Speaker 1: point as well, that, man, if you're hoping that free
Speaker 1: agency is going to solve all your problems nowadays, man,
Speaker 1: guys just aren't getting there. You know, you're just not
Speaker 1: going to get guys to the market. And you look
Speaker 1: at you know, you look at the receiver class in
Speaker 1: this free agency group not great. The draft class of
Speaker 1: receiver position is not great. It's one of the first
Speaker 1: years I can ever remember where, Man, that's not a
Speaker 1: good year to need a receiver. No, man, they find
Speaker 1: one under a flat rock.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's different. And I mean we went through
Speaker 2: this run. DJ had to be about a seven eight
Speaker 2: year run of wide receivers at the top of the
Speaker 2: board that we were just excited about. I mean, four
Speaker 2: to five receivers coming off the board in the first round,
Speaker 2: and they not only came there, they hit rate was
Speaker 2: so great on these top receivers. There was only a
Speaker 2: handful of guys that didn't live up to pre drafted expectations.
Speaker 2: Now we've kind of hit that lull and a plateau
Speaker 2: where if you haven't developed and groomed your guys for
Speaker 2: significant minutes or a bigger role, it's gonna be hard
Speaker 2: to find that guy on the streets. That's why the
Speaker 2: developmental model is so great. It's also why it's so
Speaker 2: interesting to see the La Rams put Cooper Cup on
Speaker 2: the market because he's the embodiment of the developmental process
Speaker 2: where you take someone in the third he becomes an
Speaker 2: all world playmaker. You get him and then as he's
Speaker 2: this ending, you have another one that you can put there.
Speaker 2: The money prohibits it, but in a perfect world, as
Speaker 2: he's coming down and Puku's going up, you find a
Speaker 2: way to keep both of them because they are interchangeable weapons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we haven't, we haven't been together on that. So
Speaker 1: what's your what's your take on this situation near a
Speaker 1: Cooper cup a. Do you think somebody would take on
Speaker 1: the contract and actually make that trade?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the injuries the last couple years, so
Speaker 2: the last three years he's only played in thirty three games.
Speaker 2: The money is significant. I think you're talking about twenty
Speaker 2: six or twenty seven on.
Speaker 1: Like a one year guaranteed that I think they're like
Speaker 1: five minion guarantee, but there's no none guarantee. But it's
Speaker 1: a big number overall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just a big number because he signed a
Speaker 2: three year, eighty million dollar extension. But here's what, there's
Speaker 2: so many teams that he would be a perfect fit for.
Speaker 2: I think about the Pittsburgh still is in how they
Speaker 2: may need some maturity in that wide receiver room. What
Speaker 2: he could do for them, the dependability and reliability that
Speaker 2: he would give them, I think he fits the brand
Speaker 2: and the culture that they have. I can see him
Speaker 2: going to Kansas City much like they used Andre Hopkins
Speaker 2: and Juju Smith Schuster. I would say that Cooper Cup
Speaker 2: is a better player at this stage of his career
Speaker 2: than those guys are, Like what he could be as
Speaker 2: a security blanket a team like the Raiders that doesn't
Speaker 2: have a true number one but needs someone to pair
Speaker 2: up with a Brock Bowers, a mature player. Pete Carroll
Speaker 2: has seen him in those things. There's a place for
Speaker 2: him to be able to get down and play. I'm
Speaker 2: just surprised he won't be in LA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's He's very synonymous with the success they've had there,
Speaker 1: including just a Super Bowl where he took over the
Speaker 1: game with Matthew Stafford when everybody knew where it was
Speaker 1: going and they couldn't stop him. I mean that was
Speaker 1: right with the big time, big time performance by Cooper
Speaker 1: Cup in that ballgame. Another item that we've haven't had
Speaker 1: a chance to catch up on. We've talked about it
Speaker 1: on here. I think we talked about with rhet but
Speaker 1: I always love getting your perspective on it, s Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1: I know it's prohibitive from a salary cap standpoint, it's
Speaker 1: going to be tricky for Cleveland if they were to
Speaker 1: do that, and maybe that's why they've just come flat
Speaker 1: out and said that they won't do it. But your
Speaker 1: thoughts on him asking for it and do you think
Speaker 1: he eventually gets what he wants?
Speaker 2: I felt like when I first heard about it, when
Speaker 2: I was surprised. But two, you brought this up on
Speaker 2: multiple occasions on the podcast. I was like, man, DJ
Speaker 2: know something about this mouse coming down to pipe because
Speaker 2: I was like, he has brought this up about like, hey,
Speaker 2: maybe you should get rid of him. This is the
Speaker 2: perfect time I'll say this. I understand, like because he
Speaker 2: used Andrew Berry's words against him, like I didn't want
Speaker 2: to take a straight pass from Cleveland to Canon. I
Speaker 2: want to go and win some Super Bowls and those things.
Speaker 2: And he's a foundational piece. When we talked about the
Speaker 2: marquee pieces that you have to have in a championship puzzle,
Speaker 2: like you look for a dominant pass rusher, and what
Speaker 2: it shows is like man, one wrong move and a
Speaker 2: bad move that they made with de seauan Weser. We
Speaker 2: have to call it what it is, like it was
Speaker 2: a bad move. It is completely not only wrecked the
Speaker 2: salary cap, but I would say it probably wrecked the
Speaker 2: chemistry in the locker room when you kind of hear
Speaker 2: the buzz and the lay of the land. How can
Speaker 2: they fix that, Like he's not in the building now
Speaker 2: the injury. Is there a way that you can go
Speaker 2: back to Miles Garrett and find a way to get
Speaker 2: him to kind of recommit to being with the Cleveland Browns. Normally,
Speaker 2: I would say money kind of fixes all things. I'm
Speaker 2: looking at this deal. He has two years left on
Speaker 2: his deal five year one twenty five that he signed.
Speaker 2: Joey Bosa is now the guy that you're chasing at
Speaker 2: thirty four million annually? Is there a way to sweeten
Speaker 2: the spot, sweeten the pot a little bit to kind
Speaker 2: of get him to buy in and recommit. I would
Speaker 2: be reluctant to get rid of someone who has four
Speaker 2: straight seasons with fourteen sacks. I'll be reluctant to get
Speaker 2: rid of a four time All pro even though he's thirty.
Speaker 2: He hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. It would
Speaker 2: be hard for me to part ways with him. And
Speaker 2: even when we've done this in the past, like Khalil
Speaker 2: Mack is the comp that you would do. Like the
Speaker 2: Raiders got back two number ones and a three and
Speaker 2: some other stuff, they still were never able to replace
Speaker 2: the player. It's hard to replace a player like that.
Speaker 2: I just if I'm Cleveland, Yeah, an none started for me.
Speaker 1: I think the I think the challenges, you know, But
Speaker 1: when the Khalil Mack trade happened, they still had car right,
Speaker 1: so they had who they had as their quarterback they
Speaker 1: were committed to and comfortable with. I think what happens,
Speaker 1: Buck is when you don't have the quarterback, you start
Speaker 1: getting to the point where you're like, okay, we've had
Speaker 1: We've got this Hall of Fame defensive end. We can't win.
Speaker 1: So we got to do whatever we got to do
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get the quarterback. And
Speaker 1: I personally, I think the Browns quarterback of the future
Speaker 1: is not going to be acquired this year. I think
Speaker 1: he's in twenty six or twenty seven, like one or
Speaker 1: two years down the line. So the argument on the
Speaker 1: other side of it is, man, that's just a mass
Speaker 1: as many resources as we possibly can in twenty six
Speaker 1: and twenty seven, so we can strike when we get
Speaker 1: an opportunity to get the quarterback because even with the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame player like that, if we don't have
Speaker 1: a quarterback, we're gonna have a hard time winning in
Speaker 1: this league. And I also think there's the AFC thing
Speaker 1: is real, man, Like there's a that's a shadow when
Speaker 1: you got shadow of Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes and
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow and Josh and Justin Josh Allen. I mean, Buck,
Speaker 1: that's a You're sitting there like, man, I'm bringing a
Speaker 1: knife to a gunfight here, you know, Like I don't
Speaker 1: want to be in the business of trading, you know,
Speaker 1: first ballot, Hall of Fame players, cornerstone players. But man,
Speaker 1: how are we ever going to get over that mountain
Speaker 1: with all those quarterbacks, with what we're bringing to the table?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it depends on how you look at it, right,
Speaker 2: because if you look at it in the rear view
Speaker 2: where you just are coming off to three and fourteen year,
Speaker 2: I could see that. But the year before they were
Speaker 2: a playoffs like they were in the mix. Joe Flacco
Speaker 2: had let them and put them in a position where
Speaker 2: they could do some things. Is there a way that
Speaker 2: you can patch work that part? But fortify the defense,
Speaker 2: because I'll say this, the defense didn't play to the
Speaker 2: level that they played previously. And it's hard when you're
Speaker 2: not getting the offensive support. I just wondered when you're
Speaker 2: Kevin Stefanski, because Kevin Stefanski gave up the play calling
Speaker 2: in Ken Dorsey came in. Ken Dorsey came in specifically
Speaker 2: to help Deshaun Watson. Dorsey's out. Fanski's back is the
Speaker 2: play caller. Can't he say, like, hold on, let's just
Speaker 2: reset and see if we can run this back? Because
Speaker 2: it's Afanski. I think what two time coach of the
Speaker 2: Year got them to playoff appearances without having the marquee?
Speaker 2: Did it with Baker Mayfield, He did with Joe Flacco
Speaker 2: and others? Why not pause and see? I know, like
Speaker 2: the money is twenty million this year, twenty five million
Speaker 2: the following year. I just I don't know, man, I
Speaker 2: hate giving up good players just for like what could
Speaker 2: be behind doing number two and three? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also again it's just as we go
Speaker 1: around in circles on this one. That's also what is
Speaker 1: it the the uh uh the definition of insanity? Right,
Speaker 1: same thing, expect different results, like Nope, Nope, We're gonna
Speaker 1: do it this year with our defense. We're gonna defense
Speaker 1: is gonna take us. We don't have quarterback.
Speaker 2: It's funny. So then I'm saying, so I'm using the
Speaker 2: Khalil macdial as whatever. So if you are able to
Speaker 2: get two number ones, right, so you get another number
Speaker 2: one this year, a number one next year.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even ask for another number one this year.
Speaker 1: I want all my picks in twenty six and twenty seven,
Speaker 1: all of them. I don't want an extra picks in
Speaker 1: this draft. I don't. I mean, if I'm them, I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there and saying, my ultimate goal is to get
Speaker 1: the quarterback, and I don't. I don't love my options
Speaker 1: in this draft. So load me up with twenty six
Speaker 1: and twenty seven picks.
Speaker 2: So here's here's the crazy thing, right, Like, so we're
Speaker 2: having college football fans and we love the draft, DJ
Speaker 2: who's the quarterback on the horizon that we're pining for?
Speaker 2: Normally there would be buzz over a quarterback or whatever?
Speaker 2: Like are we buzzing over arch Manning even though we've
Speaker 2: only seen that much of them? Like, I'm trying to
Speaker 2: figure out who is the guy that we began to
Speaker 2: speculate on.
Speaker 1: There guys with loud tools, and I'll give you our
Speaker 1: arch who we just seen a little bit of. But
Speaker 1: you know, you're talking about the prototypical stuff that he has.
Speaker 1: The kid at South Carolina is Oh Sellers standing. He
Speaker 1: is fun like, he's He's one that I've kind of
Speaker 1: keeping an eye on. I haven't seen time. What I've seen,
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, and I think he's a red
Speaker 1: shirt sophomore next year, so I think he'd be draft eligible.
Speaker 1: But again, twenty six or twenty seven Clubnick has shown
Speaker 1: some good things at Clemson. Drew Owlers had his moments
Speaker 1: at Penn State. Who's another prototypical, big, strong dude. He
Speaker 1: needs to, you know, keep getting better. But there's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is there's there's some prototypes out there, whereas
Speaker 1: I feel like we're kind of trying and hoping and
Speaker 1: wishing a little bit with this year's group.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a conviction. And as
Speaker 2: we would say, a good front office, like your college
Speaker 2: scut and director, your area scouts have bird dogs. Some
Speaker 2: guys you know, like if you're worth of sawt, you've
Speaker 2: already taken a look not only at disclass, but you
Speaker 2: look ahead to see who's coming down the pipeline. And
Speaker 2: so if we're talking about like true franchise quarterbacks on
Speaker 2: the horizon, yeah, if you can have that conversation with
Speaker 2: ownership as to why it makes sense, it can go.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I'll rule out nothing. Coming off a
Speaker 2: weekend in which we saw Luka Dancis traded and in
Speaker 2: his prime one of the best players in the NBA
Speaker 2: at twenty five years of age, anybody can be you got.
Speaker 2: So that's just that's the world we're living in now.
Speaker 2: When it comes to sports. The things that used to
Speaker 2: be the norm are no longer to norm when it
Speaker 2: comes to marque players.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's a fact. All right, let's take a break.
Speaker 1: A couple of things we want to get to. After
Speaker 1: the break, we'll hit on some defensive coordinator thoughts as
Speaker 1: well as we'll get some updates on Buck on a
Speaker 1: couple of guys that popped at the East West right
Speaker 1: after this. All right, but before we get to some
Speaker 1: college guys, one last pro topic here. I was just
Speaker 1: looking at this, thinking about this this Super Bowl with
Speaker 1: Vic Fangio calling the defense for the Eagles and Spags
Speaker 1: once again calling the defense for the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 1: I started thinking about the value of having that wisdom
Speaker 1: in that game on the defensive side of the ball,
Speaker 1: and I thought, you know what, let me go back
Speaker 1: and look at some of these. So if you look
Speaker 1: at the last winners Kansas City, you know, they won
Speaker 1: last year with Spags, won the year before with Spags.
Speaker 1: Then you had the Rams that won that one.
Speaker 2: That was.
Speaker 1: Gosh, why am I drawing a blank here? That was
Speaker 1: Who's who was a d C? No? No, no, not in
Speaker 1: that one. Not in the most recent one. It was Raheem.
Speaker 1: Wasn't Raheem?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Raheem is the one that won it?
Speaker 1: He yea this last year, yep. And so that was Raheem.
Speaker 1: And then you so you know, Rahem had been around
Speaker 1: for for a long time, around a few times, yes,
Speaker 1: And then you go back Chiefs again, Spags. Then you
Speaker 1: get the Belichick with with the Patriots. Then you get
Speaker 1: Shorts with the Eagles, Belichick with the Patriots, Wade Phillips
Speaker 1: with the Broncos Belichick, and then you get Pete Carroll.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like holy cow, like you go all
Speaker 1: the way back and it's uh there's a lot of
Speaker 1: value in having a a guy who's been around the
Speaker 1: block a few times and had some experiences and understands
Speaker 1: how to coach in that game.
Speaker 2: Well, I think so, DJ It is a game that
Speaker 2: until you're in it, you don't really know what all
Speaker 2: goes into it in terms of not only the preparation,
Speaker 2: but how different it is than any other game that
Speaker 2: you've been in. People can talk about the two weeks
Speaker 2: that you normally have to prepare, but it's not only
Speaker 2: the two weeks that you have to prepare where you
Speaker 2: don't want to overload your players with a bunch of stuff,
Speaker 2: but it's managing all of the distractions that comes with it.
Speaker 2: And then when it comes to the game, it's the
Speaker 2: game that I would say it has the biggest emotional
Speaker 2: swings in any game that you're ever coaching because of
Speaker 2: the finality of it and because of the stakes that
Speaker 2: are on the line. The big plays are magnified to
Speaker 2: a higher degree, so your calls have more significance than
Speaker 2: they've ever had. So how can you calm yourself down
Speaker 2: and not become distracted by the potential outcomes and really
Speaker 2: focus on the process to putting your team and the
Speaker 2: best thing. I believe it takes experience in having done
Speaker 2: that to be comfortable in that environment, which is why
Speaker 2: Steve Spagnola is so comfortable in the environment, which is
Speaker 2: why some of these other guys being comfortable when you've
Speaker 2: done it a few times and Spags has done it.
Speaker 2: My gosh, how many times, like twice with the Johnson
Speaker 2: this will beat the fifth time with the Cheese. Yah,
Speaker 2: seven times you've been in the game, and then I
Speaker 2: think he's been in the game before with the Eagles
Speaker 2: as an assistant with Jim Johns. I mean, the more
Speaker 2: you're in the game, the more the game slows down
Speaker 2: and you understand what the how, the major on the
Speaker 2: mages and not worry about all the other stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went back one extra year or two and
Speaker 1: that was the Ravens. That was Dean P's who you know,
Speaker 1: been around forever when they were This is kind of
Speaker 1: funny that, like, think about all these new we have
Speaker 1: some of young coordinators, right, and it's like, well, the
Speaker 1: guys who are in these games that win it, they've
Speaker 1: they're they're calm and comfortable, they've they've been in these
Speaker 1: types of situations before. And I was thinking about this
Speaker 1: with with the fangio. And there's so many articles written
Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl, so I'm sure this has been written,
Speaker 1: but I haven't seen it. But I was thinking of
Speaker 1: the irony there. I believe they're practicing at the Saints facility, right.
Speaker 2: The old school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you think about that, he's walking in there.
Speaker 1: You think you want some confidence. How about just walking
Speaker 1: in and seeing all the statues of all the dudes
Speaker 1: you coach that don't patrol back in the day, man,
Speaker 1: all those dudes forever. Vic has been around forever.
Speaker 2: He has been around forever, and I do believe and
Speaker 2: it's easier maybe for people to buy into the experienced
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator where you want kind of like the young
Speaker 2: hot shot offense of mind and those things. But I
Speaker 2: mean there is something to experience and expertise and wisdom
Speaker 2: and being able to have seen a lot and had
Speaker 2: to deal with a lot in heaven and encyclopedia of
Speaker 2: knowledge when you're dealing with stuff, so you're able to
Speaker 2: recall that. But like, oh, I remember this, back in
Speaker 2: the eighties, they used to run this. We used to
Speaker 2: have this answer and that answer or whatever. And let's
Speaker 2: think about what some of the things that we've seen
Speaker 2: in Super Bowls that have taken place, Bill Belichick using
Speaker 2: an old school defense against the Rams, the stim of
Speaker 2: the Rams and like a thirteen to ten win to
Speaker 2: get it done. Being able to see what Wade Phillips
Speaker 2: was able to throw out to kind of mess up
Speaker 2: Cam Newton in Super Bowl fifty. Like we have seen
Speaker 2: these old guys throw nice knuckleballs at the opposition.
Speaker 1: Remember the Giants adult taking the ends and putting them
Speaker 1: in over the guards, and I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just just just doing different stuff. Because man, every
Speaker 2: time every year you just learned so much and you're
Speaker 2: able to apply that. There's something to watching this. This
Speaker 2: year we actually get the luxury watching to experienced defensive
Speaker 2: coordinators go back and forth and how they're going to
Speaker 2: navigate it. I would say the difference with Fangio is
Speaker 2: he has a younger team. But to me, that's the
Speaker 2: quality of the coaching because the coach, how can you
Speaker 2: get younger players to buy into maybe something that is complex.
Speaker 2: We saw Spags do it a couple of years ago
Speaker 2: with the kN City Chiefs when they had all those
Speaker 2: young hoppers running around on defense. So it's the same
Speaker 2: thing to me, there is something about that which is look, man,
Speaker 2: maybe that's why we saw a little bit of a
Speaker 2: renaissance with Pete Carroll and some of the older guys
Speaker 2: getting significant opportunities.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I think it's an interesting point. All right, Buck,
Speaker 1: We are going to switch gears though real quick. Going
Speaker 1: to get into some college stuff here because it's time
Speaker 1: for Hot or Not, brought to you by Wasabi Hot
Speaker 1: Cloud Storage. Haven't had a chance to catch up with
Speaker 1: you since East West, and I know, talking to some
Speaker 1: other buddies that had made the trek from East West
Speaker 1: to Senior, heard some names of some guys who popped.
Speaker 1: But just you your experience down there, can you give
Speaker 1: me a couple of dudes that I need to put
Speaker 1: towards the top of the list I need to get watched.
Speaker 2: Well, guys that you want to watch. And obviously we
Speaker 2: started at quarterback. Everyone to talk about Shadrew Sander's but
Speaker 2: Shadrius Sandas didn't work out. He just interviewed cal McCord.
Speaker 2: Was the guy Calvi McCord from Syracuse who had transferred
Speaker 2: from Ohio State. Has a phenomenal final season in Syracuse,
Speaker 2: like he lit it up doing practices. What you saw
Speaker 2: was a guy who came out as a four star,
Speaker 2: five star quarterback. You saw the tools, you saw the talent,
Speaker 2: you saw the touch, timing, anticipation. You saw him make
Speaker 2: big boy throws. And what you also saw was someone
Speaker 2: who you could squint and close your eyes and see
Speaker 2: a top one hundred player in a game in which
Speaker 2: we've seen Brock Purdy and Aidan O'Connell use that game
Speaker 2: to step up. Cal McCord didn't play in the game,
Speaker 2: but the week of practices should make him a very
Speaker 2: interesting guy as like a mid round selection. You know,
Speaker 2: I would say DJ stand on offense at running back
Speaker 2: Todds Brooks from Texas Tech with someone that kind of
Speaker 2: stood out five nine, two hundred and thirty pounds stop
Speaker 2: start quickness. Burst can kind of run it like a pounder,
Speaker 2: but has some speed to get to the outside. Like
Speaker 2: he was interesting. There were some other guys that you
Speaker 2: liked on offense. There was a bunch of wide receivers,
Speaker 2: but like Aaronde Gatson, his son of Aronn Gason played
Speaker 2: stood out at tight end. Those things. But I would
Speaker 2: say the best players on the defense side of the
Speaker 2: ball and Kansas cornerback Kobe Bryant was someone that they
Speaker 2: talked about. And it's funny, Kobe Bryant, if he had
Speaker 2: more size on him, you would really like him. But
Speaker 2: he's only one hundred and seventy five pounds, and so
Speaker 2: people worry about the Emanuel Forbes thing. But what I
Speaker 2: saw is someone who could do some of the Jalen Ramsey,
Speaker 2: the physical stuff or whatever. You just worry about his
Speaker 2: size and then I would stay up front. Jordan Phillis
Speaker 2: from Maryland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one that I heard the most about
Speaker 1: the whole week.
Speaker 2: He's the guy man like, he's the guy three hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty pounds. I got a chance to stand with
Speaker 2: Mike Loxley like the entire practice day, and he just
Speaker 2: talked about the dude is wired right, great effort, great motor,
Speaker 2: yes or noser type, just loves ball. And when you
Speaker 2: saw him, man, you just don't see guys built like that.
Speaker 2: Like he was a well put together three hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty pounds. He was playing the three technique, but you
Speaker 2: could see him being a very active nose tackle if
Speaker 2: you had to use him there. He was just really
Speaker 2: good man, really good with his hands, all of that.
Speaker 2: He was outstanding the entire week.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's the that was the name that just came
Speaker 1: up a bunch of times. Out of there guy said, Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: you need to you need to watch him. He's a really,
Speaker 1: really good football player. I heard just through the grape
Speaker 1: vine that the interviews with Shooter Or went well. Everybody
Speaker 1: that I talked to that you know, had visited with
Speaker 1: him enjoyed their time with him. So, I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: didn't do anything at the at the game, which I
Speaker 1: don't think anyboy anticipated he would, but they did. They
Speaker 1: said they got the vibe from visiting with him as
Speaker 1: somebody that really really loved football.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, so it was interesting, right, and maybe this
Speaker 2: is just a coach putting chum in the water. I
Speaker 2: thought about Brian Callahan, who had coached Joe Burrow doing Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: made loose comparisons between Shadur Sanders and Joe Burrow, And
Speaker 2: if you want to read about it, there's an article
Speaker 2: on ESPN to Ron Davin Fork kind of outlines what
Speaker 2: Brian Callahan said, but insummation, he basically said, like, look,
Speaker 2: he's a touch time and an anticipation quarterback, and much
Speaker 2: like Joe Burrow, who may not have the strongest arm.
Speaker 2: When you have touch, timing and anticipation, it allows you
Speaker 2: to kind of mask some of those deficiencies. And he
Speaker 2: basically alluded to the fact that like Burrow, he can
Speaker 2: be a point guard in the right system where if
Speaker 2: you're just like, hey, ball out, he can play when
Speaker 2: it comes to that, get the ball out of his hands,
Speaker 2: let him go to work and operate and doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2: It might have been one of those things that when
Speaker 2: you're holding the number one pick, you're trying to entice
Speaker 2: conversation in people to get up. But Brian Callahan put
Speaker 2: it out there, and I thought it was an interesting thought.
Speaker 2: When we think about quarterbacks and the things that are necessary,
Speaker 2: it always comes down to decision making, accuracy, and ball placement.
Speaker 2: And he's really raving about Shahdur Sanders' things, and he
Speaker 2: made those loose comparisons to Joe Burrow, which I think
Speaker 2: is a very interesting thing to just kind of put
Speaker 2: it in our back pocket as we get ready to watch
Speaker 2: him throw potentially at the combine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you kind of squint and you can
Speaker 1: see that the anticipation accuracy part one thousand percent, like
Speaker 1: or that's what he does really really well. He's especially
Speaker 1: when he's clean in the pocket, feet in the ground, anticipation, accuracy, outstanding, which,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, are key key elements playing the position.
Speaker 1: Now he's smaller than Burrow, I don't think he's as
Speaker 1: twitchy as Burrow.
Speaker 2: Definite, he doesn't have He doesn't have a diference this. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: because Burrow was All state high school basketball player. The
Speaker 2: athleticism go out. You also see the basketball skills come
Speaker 2: out when he's he's destriying, but he likes to go empty.
Speaker 2: He is a pass first point guard. He gets into
Speaker 2: his playmakers and let them go to work. Not quite
Speaker 2: as quick or as distinct when it comes to chadur Uh.
Speaker 2: I just thought it was interesting when we talked about talent,
Speaker 2: because everyone is going to have the conversation, Hey, Kim
Speaker 2: Wore's tools. Yeah, the charts, the tools are legit, they're real.
Speaker 2: The decision making is more of a gunslinger than someone
Speaker 2: that's gonna kind of play and manage the game maybe
Speaker 2: the way that you you want consistently, But I'm which
Speaker 2: are you willing to bank on being able to refine
Speaker 2: it and harness that versus someone who doesn't have the
Speaker 2: arm talent, but maybe he has the decision making and
Speaker 2: the anticipation in time and that you wanted the offense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's a debate that's gonna take place
Speaker 1: in the draft room, is can we can we rein
Speaker 1: in cam Ward a little bit and still get the
Speaker 1: benefit to reap the rewards of all the arm talent
Speaker 1: and the you know, the suddenness and the way that
Speaker 1: he can, you know, make some special things happen. Can
Speaker 1: we rain that in or then on the should or side, well,
Speaker 1: can we can we get him a little stronger? You know?
Speaker 1: Can we you know it's like that's the conversation that's
Speaker 1: going to be gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And another thing that's gonna be going because we
Speaker 2: haven't had a had we haven't had the conversation, but
Speaker 2: I guess we can say this, like Jackson Dart had
Speaker 2: been the building, so we had a chance to talk
Speaker 2: to him and those things. And there's been a lot
Speaker 2: of conversation about QB two, QB three, Jackson Dart or
Speaker 2: whoever the field because everyone has always talked about cam
Speaker 2: Wood and Shaduer Sanders. But we've been in this long
Speaker 2: enough to know, Yeah, who's the dark horse that we're
Speaker 2: not paying attention to. Yeah, one day can get into conversation.
Speaker 2: So studying Jackson Dart, you were there at the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 2: he is intriguing. Talking to Jackson Dart, the intrigue grows.
Speaker 2: What was your like take on what he did down
Speaker 2: in Mobile and how does he just kind of loosely
Speaker 2: factor into the conversation as we're talking about quarterbacks in
Speaker 2: his class.
Speaker 1: I would say it was like a solid week. He
Speaker 1: you know, he got a little bit better every day.
Speaker 1: I didn't come out of that with a hot or
Speaker 1: cold take on it. You know, I didn't come out
Speaker 1: of there saying, man, he lit it up like we've seen,
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of guys light it up. And
Speaker 1: I didn't come out of there saying, man, he really
Speaker 1: hurt himself with the way he's performed. I just thought
Speaker 1: he got a little bit better every week. He's he's big,
Speaker 1: he's sturdy, he can move around. He moved around the game,
Speaker 1: had a rushing touchdown something He's done a lot there
Speaker 1: at Old Mess and everybody seemed to enjoy their time
Speaker 1: with him, like we enjoyed, you know, getting a chance
Speaker 1: to visit with him. He's a really good dude. So
Speaker 1: I was doing an interview of the day with the
Speaker 1: Seattle Radio and like that name's discussion there they're picking eighteen.
Speaker 1: Now he's my forty first player. But again in this draft,
Speaker 1: I don't know there's much difference between eighteen and fifty.
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, I got the same. Like
Speaker 1: our grade system is like a six to three. I've
Speaker 1: got six threes basically starting it around that range, and
Speaker 1: it goes all the way in the fifties. So it's
Speaker 1: just you're stacking them however you prefer them. But grade wise,
Speaker 1: talent wise, they're all in one big pile together. So
Speaker 1: that's why I think you're gonna see one of these
Speaker 1: other quarterbacks is going to emerge. You're right, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be him you're talking, or it's gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: Will Howard's got some sponsors for the way he finished
Speaker 1: up winning a national championship. No, Roe's got some loud tools.
Speaker 1: But you know, he was all kind of all over
Speaker 1: the place down there at the Senior Bowl. Dylan Gabriel
Speaker 1: is kind of I mean, everybody's like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: is he going to get drafted? I'm like, guys like
Speaker 1: if you put him in a dome, like you put
Speaker 1: him in the NFC South, He's not that much different
Speaker 1: than Tua. Like there, you can you can see a
Speaker 1: lot of similarities there. I know if I was Miami
Speaker 1: and if he was hanging around there in the middle rounds, shoot,
Speaker 1: I'd take him just as my two insurance because I
Speaker 1: don't have to change anything on my offense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean so it's look, man, beauty is
Speaker 2: always an eye of the beholder. And when you're talking
Speaker 2: about quarterbacks and the number of teams that need quarterbacks
Speaker 2: and the number teams that are gonna be boxed out
Speaker 2: when it comes to free agency, those guys are going
Speaker 2: to be in the conversation, maybe a little sooner than
Speaker 2: many people think. And when you're talking about like the
Speaker 2: next tier of quarterbacks, right like if we just say
Speaker 2: that Kim Ward and Shoulder centers in a different tier.
Speaker 2: But like those guys vying for three or maybe even two,
Speaker 2: some names are gonna come up. And Jackson Dart to me,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it's the safest, but he's the most
Speaker 2: logical that would come up. And the reason why I
Speaker 2: would say is like he goes from sc to ole
Speaker 2: Miss and even though the system is not a pro
Speaker 2: style system, it marries a bunch of things that we
Speaker 2: see on Sundays. You think about the level of experience,
Speaker 2: You think about like I think now we are all
Speaker 2: looking for the guy who's had to kind of go
Speaker 2: through some stuff from almost side. He has some of that,
Speaker 2: And to me, he's not as big of a project
Speaker 2: as Jalen mill Roe could be in certain offenses. So
Speaker 2: to me, he's kind of like a natural and logical
Speaker 2: fit as the third or whatever. Will Howard certainly got
Speaker 2: hot down to stretch with man. I still have like
Speaker 2: the Michigan game where he didn't play rate and that
Speaker 2: hanging like they're gonna be people to try and push
Speaker 2: cal McCord into the thing, But then I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: the whole year of Ohio State, the last year where
Speaker 2: they pushed him out. He goes so there. Look, they're
Speaker 2: gonna be things on every quarterback, even the ward and
Speaker 2: to do so, it's going to be fascinating to have
Speaker 2: the conversations as we get into the combine and then
Speaker 2: the workouts, and then as what I would say is
Speaker 2: a bad thing when when when think tank takes over,
Speaker 2: who is going to be able to stand on conviction
Speaker 2: and say, hey man, I feel really good about this
Speaker 2: quarterback and we can build something out for him to
Speaker 2: thrive in because I still remember there weren't a whole
Speaker 2: lot of people that were had on bonnecks and bownicks
Speaker 2: gets into the league and they're like, oh man, well
Speaker 2: pay I'm like yeah, yeah, for everybody. It's so many
Speaker 2: factors that go with where the guy can succeed a
Speaker 2: fill in the league. Yep.
Speaker 1: It's going to be part of the discussion here for
Speaker 1: the next several months as we get towards the draft.
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it for us. Today, we
Speaker 1: will have a short one. We got a short podcoming
Speaker 1: your way tomorrow as we head towards Super Bowl Sunday,
Speaker 1: and we'll have all the recap stuff for you beginning
Speaker 1: early next week as we full on transition into the offseason, draft,
Speaker 1: free agency, all that good stuff. So appreciate you guys
Speaker 1: hanging with U. See next time right here on with
Speaker 1: the sticks