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Speaker 1: March thirtieth, twenty twenty four, Veronica Butler, twenty seven years old,

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Speaker 1: a mother of four, and her friend Julian Kelly, thirty nine,

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Speaker 1: from Kansas. We're traveling together to pick up Veronica's children

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Speaker 1: to go to a birthday party. They never arrived. Now, y'all,

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Speaker 1: we have got somebody boots on the ground. Literally, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't there last week. She wasn't there, you know, two

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Speaker 1: days ago. She's there right this minute. Laura Ingle, you

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Speaker 1: can find her at Laura Ingle on x and Laura

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Speaker 1: Ingle TV on Instagram. Please follow her. She is doing

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Speaker 1: some live feeds that are a money tree for us

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Speaker 1: to understand this scene out of Oklahoma, what it looks like,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps what the scene looks like can tell us

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Speaker 1: who did it. Laura, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Now I got to ask him. The two women were

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Speaker 1: driving from Kansas to Oklahoma and they just vanished. And

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Speaker 1: then law enforcement was able to locate the abandoned car

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Speaker 1: off a desolate road three miles from where they were

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Speaker 1: supposed to meet up and get the children.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Cheryl, when we first heard that, when

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Speaker 2: I first heard I should say that the vehicle that

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Speaker 2: Veronica Butler was driving in that she was it was

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Speaker 2: her vehicle. She was the driver from what we've learned.

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Speaker 2: And I thought it was going to be on the

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Speaker 2: side of the highway, you know, like you pull over

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Speaker 2: you have car trouble, maybe you ran out of gas,

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Speaker 2: maybe you pulled over to check the directions on your phone.

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Speaker 2: But this was Road L and Highway ninety five, and

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Speaker 2: I thought it was just an innerce But where the

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Speaker 2: vehicle was found was a thousand feet in on this

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Speaker 2: dirt road. And when we had dropped a pin to

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Speaker 2: the location where we knew the car was, and as

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Speaker 2: we were driving, I thought, wow, you know, we were

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Speaker 2: going down the road and it's like this is much

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Speaker 2: further off the beaten path literally than we thought. And

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Speaker 2: this was a dirt road county roads. If you've ever

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Speaker 2: been in the country, you know what these look like.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's just a dirt road with some tall

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Speaker 2: grass on each side. And then we came upon a

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Speaker 2: yellow marker with like pretty yellow ribbon on a stick.

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Speaker 2: And then right near there there was a white cross

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Speaker 2: with the women's name written on it with yellow ribbons

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Speaker 2: and some bumblebees and some decorations on it, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure who left it there, but it was not

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Speaker 2: right off the road. It was down the road a bit.

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Speaker 1: So it would appear to you that whoever drove that

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Speaker 1: did so deliberately for that distance. Yes, okay, because.

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Speaker 2: That's not it's not something that you would somebody who said, well,

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Speaker 2: do you mean like it was far enough, Well, maybe

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Speaker 2: they were turning around. No, there's no way you could

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Speaker 2: turn around easily right off the side of the road.

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Speaker 2: This was one thousand and my GPS told me that

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Speaker 2: I have it on recording as we were turning left,

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Speaker 2: that your destination is one thousand feet as we were

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Speaker 2: turning off of the road onto road L off of

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Speaker 2: Highway ninety five.

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Speaker 1: And to our knowledge, as the car didn't have a

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Speaker 1: flat tire, it wasn't at of gas, the hood wasn't up,

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Speaker 1: So even if you were having trouble, you would be

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Speaker 1: on the side of ninety five. You wouldn't be one

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Speaker 1: thousand feet in the middle of nowhere where they're not

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Speaker 1: going to see you from the what would we consider

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Speaker 1: in this situation the main road.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: So even on ninety five when you did one of

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Speaker 1: your live feeds, which was so good, if you did

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Speaker 1: a three sixty. You can see for one hundred miles

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Speaker 1: and there's nothing.

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Speaker 2: And what's so interesting to me This is actually my

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Speaker 2: first time, I think in Oklahoma, the first time I've

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Speaker 2: been here, especially in the Panhandle when we have roads

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Speaker 2: in California where I'm from and my cousin is a

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Speaker 2: cattle rancher. Sure there's a lot of open space, but

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Speaker 2: you've got hills. They're not super mountainous in the Sacramento area,

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Speaker 2: but you know you've got some hills. You're going up

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Speaker 2: and down the oak trees. This is flat, is flat

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Speaker 2: as flat can be. And we put a We've actually

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Speaker 2: put a drone up so we could show our viewers

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Speaker 2: on News Nation and you know, everybody on social what

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Speaker 2: things look like. Because not only do you see the

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Speaker 2: wide open space of the farmland, you see the direction

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Speaker 2: of the asphalt of Highway ninety five and the other

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Speaker 2: connecting highways, but you also can see the industrial pig farms.

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Speaker 2: And when I heard pig farms that were in the

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Speaker 2: area that I was, I don't know. In my mind,

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Speaker 2: I was thinking, you know, fences and pigs and mud,

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Speaker 2: but they're actually like silver roofs, metal roofs, that you

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Speaker 2: that's a long row. That's really actually a massive area

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Speaker 2: that is the industrial pig farm, with big large pools

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Speaker 2: of water right and back. So the drone gave us

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Speaker 2: the ability to see what that nearest industrial pig farm

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Speaker 2: look like. Then if you're going down the road from

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Speaker 2: where the car was found, you've got the pig farm.

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Speaker 2: Then you keep going three miles and you've got that

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Speaker 2: abandoned gas station at four corners, which is I mean,

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Speaker 2: it looks like something out of Central Casting. It's you know,

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Speaker 2: tumble weeds, and you know, the windows look like they

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Speaker 2: are just darkened and dusty and dirty, and the gas

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Speaker 2: pump is all dilapidated, and that that was supposed to

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Speaker 2: be the meeting spot, And.

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Speaker 1: Did it, you know, strike you as odd that that

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Speaker 1: would be a matin spot to exchange children, especially if

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Speaker 1: you're having custody issues.

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Speaker 2: I'll say, yeah, well I think that if you you know,

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Speaker 2: we've been talking so much about the terrain and the desolation,

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Speaker 2: it's really I guess it's you know, it's the it's

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Speaker 2: the point where there's some actual concrete to stand on

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Speaker 2: a little bit or hardened dirt to stand and pull

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Speaker 2: over off of the path that the big rigs are

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Speaker 2: flying down, and this is an area where you could

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Speaker 2: have a meetup because there's just we keep saying this,

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Speaker 2: there's not a lot out there. There's just barber wire

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Speaker 2: fences and tall grass and cows. And here's a spot

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Speaker 2: that's halfway. It is supposed to be the middle ground

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Speaker 2: of where Veronica Butler lived in Kansas and where the

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Speaker 2: grandmother lived in Oklahoma. That was the idea of meet

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Speaker 2: in the middle.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about where they

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Speaker 1: came from and where they were going. So Elkhart, Kansas

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Speaker 1: has a population of less than two thousand people about

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundred and some change. Eva, Oklahoma has a population

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Speaker 1: of two hundred and sixty one. So they went from

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Speaker 1: a small town to an Eddy Betty town. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to say your suspect pool shrinks because I would

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Speaker 1: think between those two small populated towns is nothing.

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Speaker 2: That's right, there's absolutely nothing. And you know that's when

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Speaker 2: you're and that's when your heart beats fast. I mean

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Speaker 2: it didn't for me when we when we we'll get

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Speaker 2: to that in a minute. But like when you realize

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Speaker 2: if I have car trouble and if my cell phone

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Speaker 2: stops working, which is the case for many reporters that

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Speaker 2: have been out here, and we've all been telling each other,

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Speaker 2: make sure you have a lot of gas. Don't go

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Speaker 2: out there with a half tank. Ye make sure that

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Speaker 2: your phone is charged, make sure that you've got to

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, obviously we're going into a situation

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Speaker 2: where things have happened. But I was given the advice

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Speaker 2: to make sure I essentially filed a flight plan is

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Speaker 2: what I've been calling it, where I had to tell

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Speaker 2: people where I was going. I actually went so far

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Speaker 2: as to tell my boss what my license plate number

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Speaker 2: of my rental car was. That is just just out

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Speaker 2: of an abundance of caution because of what we were

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Speaker 2: dealing with. But if you're a local, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: just you're just driving down the road. You want to

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Speaker 2: make sure you take those precautions. But between A and

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Speaker 2: B and C there's nothing.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing. So again, your suspect is going to either

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Speaker 1: be somebody that knows that you were going to be

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Speaker 1: on that road on that day, during that time, or

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Speaker 1: a trucker somebody that just happened upon you and thinks, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is an easy mark. Even though there's two people

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Speaker 1: in the car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've talked to people who know the area

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Speaker 2: well and they said, everybody is, you know, going with

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Speaker 2: the direction of it's probably look if something that bad happens.

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Speaker 2: If you're talking about finding a car that's abandoned with

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Speaker 2: two women, the wife of a local pastor and this

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Speaker 2: young woman going to meet her six and eight year

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Speaker 2: old child, and these people just vanish and there's a

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Speaker 2: sign of, you know, there's foul play. And we've heard

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Speaker 2: that there was possibly a hammer that was found in

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Speaker 2: the car. It sounds like there was blood. They're not

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Speaker 2: they're saying it was suspicious and foul play, but that's

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Speaker 2: kind of the word on the street. You're you're thinking

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Speaker 2: to yourself when like this happen, it sounds like it's personal.

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Speaker 2: But the locals that know the area say, hold on

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Speaker 2: a second. You should also know that there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of human trafficking in this area. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: unsolved murders in this area because of the remoteness, because

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Speaker 2: there are not the only witnesses are the cattle. So

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Speaker 2: there's just kind of a confluence of different things that

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Speaker 2: we need to look at. It's easy, it is easy

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Speaker 2: because you know, this custody battle was so bitter. But

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Speaker 2: there are other factors to look at. The trucker, which

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Speaker 2: is right on the money. You've got to bring that

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Speaker 2: up because those truckers are going up and down those

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Speaker 2: highways the whole time that we were there. And then

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Speaker 2: the human trafficking angle and the gun running and the drugs.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of that going on. Maybe it's all combined,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's a little bit of all of it.

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Speaker 2: We just don't know because the OSBI isn't saying much

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 1: Let's just go with there is a hammer, and there

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Speaker 1: was other evidence in the car that they were in

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Speaker 1: grave danger, So let's just assume there was blood in that.

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Speaker 1: If there's a hammer, you're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: have touch DNA. You could possibly have a bloody fingerprint

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Speaker 1: on it. The fact that the person left it behind

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Speaker 1: they may not be a pro. The fact that they

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Speaker 1: used a hammer at all may indicate they're not a pro.

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Speaker 1: Because if you're trying to traffic somebody, the last thing

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Speaker 1: you want is then bleeding from the head because you

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Speaker 1: just bash them with a hammer. You know, it's going

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Speaker 1: to make things more complicated. Also, if this is a

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Speaker 1: pro or one person in a truck, they're not going

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Speaker 1: to drive three miles and then go one thousand feet

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Speaker 1: off the roadway to hide a car and then run

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Speaker 1: back to their truck. They risk being seen, and then

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Speaker 1: that leaves you where are the victims? Usually, if it's

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Speaker 1: a stranger, they don't have to take two victims and

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Speaker 1: drive them a long distance and then dispose of them. Normally,

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Speaker 1: these truckers, as you know, oh get somebody, do what

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Speaker 1: they do and throw them on the side of the

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Speaker 1: road and keep moving right.

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Speaker 2: You know. I was talking to one of the friends

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Speaker 2: that I met in the women's hometown of Hugoton, and

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Speaker 2: I said, can your mind go to somewhere that they're

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Speaker 2: somewhere that we haven't thought of? You know, is there

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Speaker 2: a scenario where they were abducted, that they are being

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Speaker 2: held somewhere in one of these barns or silos that

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Speaker 2: are everywhere, Because if that's me, if this is my

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Speaker 2: friend that I'm worried about, that's what I'm hoping for.

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Speaker 2: We're hoping that they've been taken and kidnapped. But I

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Speaker 2: haven't come across one person loved, one close or just

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Speaker 2: a neighbor in this town that thinks that there's any

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Speaker 2: other scenario other than this probably is not going to

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Speaker 2: turn out. Well.

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Speaker 1: I would have to agree with everybody in town, because

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Speaker 1: that's what I was going to ask you, Like, what

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Speaker 1: the vibe is of the town. I mean, they're not

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Speaker 1: to me, operating like there's a crazy person on the loose.

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Speaker 1: They're not operating like this person could come back or

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Speaker 1: is living among us. They're acting like we kind of

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Speaker 1: have an idea. And that's how I feel. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've kind of got an idea. But you almost

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Speaker 1: have to start with family. You have to do that.

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Speaker 1: You've got to rule them out because again, I want

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Speaker 1: to know who's set up this meet and date on

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Speaker 1: this time and that location, because that narrows down. You

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Speaker 1: ain't talking about a handful of people that would know

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Speaker 1: that was going to happen. If there's grandma, if there's

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Speaker 1: a babysitter by, you know, the biological father, the two husbands.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about six people max that, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're going to exchange it whatever time and at this location.

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Speaker 1: So the fact that some stranger would intersect these two

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Speaker 1: women three miles from their destination not unheard of, but

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Speaker 1: still pretty astronomic.

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Speaker 2: And you know what else we have to look at,

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Speaker 2: and I've brought this up before on air, is this

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Speaker 2: court document I'm holding in my hand right now. It

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Speaker 2: was filed, it stamped from the court clerk on March twentieth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. And this is the defendant's Veronica Butler's

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Speaker 2: amended motion for increased visitation with the subject minor children.

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Speaker 2: And what this paperwork tells us is that she was

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Speaker 2: fighting tooth and nail to get more visitation with her children,

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Speaker 2: unsupervised visitation with her children. And there was a court

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Speaker 2: hearing scheduled for the middle of April on this and

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Speaker 2: in this court filing, when you flip through the pages,

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Speaker 2: it describes, from the point of view from Veronica Butler's attorney,

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Speaker 2: all of the different times that Grandma Tiffany Adams has

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Speaker 2: not followed the corpse rules on bringing the children to

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Speaker 2: a location where she could visit with her mother, and

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Speaker 2: it details, you know, she says that she was sick

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Speaker 2: and she you know, you have to give the there's

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Speaker 2: rules with child custody. If you're not going to make

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Speaker 2: a visitation, you have to tell somebody. If you're not

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Speaker 2: going to make the visitation on Saturday. You have to

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Speaker 2: tell somebody by Wednesday. And there's a list of all

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Speaker 2: these different times that they say that the grandmother did

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Speaker 2: not abide by the court order. And it missed week

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Speaker 2: after week after week of Veronica trying to see her children. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talked to a friend who saw Veronica

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Speaker 2: the day before she went missing, and she told me

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Speaker 2: that she was so excited it was her daughter's you know,

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Speaker 2: they were going to celebrate the birthday. And you know what, Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: I keep thinking about that, if you're a mom and

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Speaker 2: you're going to go celebrate your kid's birthday and pick

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Speaker 2: them up for a birthday party, what's in your car? Yes,

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Speaker 2: maybe a cake, yep, maybe balloons, maybe a present, maybe

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Speaker 2: something fun, maybe a Levey, maybe a little stuffed animal,

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Speaker 2: Like I know what it's you know, I know what

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Speaker 2: it's like to be a mom and have stuff for

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Speaker 2: your kids. Like I just keep thinking about what was

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Speaker 2: in the car for those children. But anyway, looking at

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Speaker 2: the court documents, this was heating up. This is the point,

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Speaker 2: this was heating up. These court documents that we have

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Speaker 2: found from this county in Oklahoma go back. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we were looking at court documents back to twenty fifteen

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Speaker 2: on the child custody issue, and with each court filing

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Speaker 2: it's more and more contentious.

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Speaker 1: Nine years of fighting. So now you're getting into motive, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you and I were prosecutors and we're

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Speaker 1: building a case, this sounds like motive.

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Speaker 2: When I look at the very first page of this

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Speaker 2: court filing, I my heart sinks because there was another

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Speaker 2: court approved supervisor that was supposed to be the person

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Speaker 2: that did the majority of these visits with Veronica and

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Speaker 2: her children. Her name is Cheryl, and so Cheryl is

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Speaker 2: the main person who's supposed to be doing all this.

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Speaker 2: Then it lists three other names right under Cheryl's approved

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Speaker 2: supervisor's name. One is and I Leave, the other is Robin,

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Speaker 2: and the other is Jillian. Those are the three alternates.

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Speaker 2: So there's four people here that were court approved supervisors

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Speaker 2: for this, and Jillian Kelly is the last one on

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Speaker 2: the list.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why she was in the car. So

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Speaker 1: Veronica was doing the right thing what the court asked

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Speaker 1: her to do. Jillian was doing the right thing what

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Speaker 1: her friend in the court asked her to do for

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Speaker 1: these children. Laura let me ask you something. Who alerted

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Speaker 1: the police? Do we know?

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Speaker 2: That is such a great question. I asked the OSBI

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Speaker 2: Pio public information officer, who is it that called? Did

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Speaker 2: somebody call nine one one? We don't that somebody called

305
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 2: nine long one. They might have just said we need

306
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Speaker 2: a welfare check. Whatever, it's my understanding that it was

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Speaker 2: Veronica's fiance who was worried and took the drive and

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Speaker 2: found the car. That is what we are hearing. It's

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Speaker 2: not what's been confirmed. But the other thing that I

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Speaker 2: said to the attorney for Veronica, who I'm in touch with,

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Speaker 2: and to the OSBI, I said, am I to believe

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Speaker 2: that there was a grandmother standing at that abandoned gas

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Speaker 2: station holding the hands of two little kids? Is that

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Speaker 2: what I'm supposed to you know? Is that what I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to be imagining right now? There are people that

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Speaker 2: told me that they don't This is hearsay, it's hearsay,

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Speaker 2: But there are people that told me that they don't

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Speaker 2: believe that grandma ever left the house.

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Speaker 1: So you've done again some boots on the ground investigating,

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Speaker 1: and you went to Veronica's house. Did you see anything

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Speaker 1: that struck you as hey that could be helpful, or Hey,

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Speaker 1: A wonder if low Enforce that knows this, or somebody

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Speaker 1: told me a and I checked it out and it

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Speaker 1: looked accurate. Anything that you can tell us about where

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Speaker 1: Veronica started from?

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Speaker 2: Right, So we were in her hometown and I did

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Speaker 2: meet up with her friend in a park, and I say,

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Speaker 2: can you just show me where she lives so that

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Speaker 2: I can get an eyeball because there's been so much

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Speaker 2: talk about you know, obviously there's no cameras on the

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Speaker 2: route she was taking in the middle of nowhere. But

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Speaker 2: were their cameras in town on the route she took

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Speaker 2: out of town or where their cameras on her street?

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Speaker 2: And so I took a drive with a respectful distance

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Speaker 2: down her street and was able to observe her house.

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Speaker 2: And there were two that I could see cameras on

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Speaker 2: the outside of her house, one on the left and

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Speaker 2: one on the right by the driveway. And then yeah,

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Speaker 2: so I'm hoping that they were I'm hoping that I

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Speaker 2: don't know, you know, they pick up everything, right, So,

341
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Speaker 2: was she talking about something that may have happened. I've

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Speaker 2: heard that she I heard that she got a phone

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Speaker 2: call before she took that drive that wasn't a good one.

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Speaker 2: So was she You know, when you're going out to

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Speaker 2: your car, you're talking to your friend, you're talking to whoever.

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Speaker 2: So what could that camera have picked up not just

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Speaker 2: of her getting in her car, but what was she

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Speaker 2: saying walking from her front door, possibly holding things for

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Speaker 2: her kids, going to her vehicle and the driveway or

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Speaker 2: out on the street. Was there anything that was picked

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Speaker 2: up in terms of a clue, because there are two

352
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Speaker 2: cameras on the front of her house. Around the back

353
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Speaker 2: of the house, the fence is gone, but that's just

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Speaker 2: the nature of that neighborhood, I think, and some of

355
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Speaker 2: the some of the fence line that they have, the

356
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Speaker 2: fence was down and I could see that, you know.

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Speaker 2: The friend had told me that she had planned on

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Speaker 2: taking her children out on a boat that weekend, on

359
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Speaker 2: that Easter weekend, and there was a boat in the

360
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Speaker 2: backyard that I could see from the eye. So I

361
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Speaker 2: didn't see any cameras in the back I saw a trampoline,

362
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Speaker 2: I saw a basketball hoop, and the boat and a

363
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,719
Speaker 2: it looked like a trailer. So the clear signs of

364
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Speaker 2: just you know, life interrupted and what she was hoping

365
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Speaker 2: to do with her kids that weekend.

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Speaker 1: Were there any sections of roadway where you lost complete service?

367
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Speaker 1: There was no sale service at all any of the

368
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Speaker 1: pertinent locations regarding this case.

369
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Speaker 2: There was one section between where the vehicle was found

370
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Speaker 2: and the gas station where I was having trouble, and

371
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Speaker 2: my bars on my phone were dwindling down, you know,

372
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Speaker 2: as you as you drive down these roads and you're

373
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Speaker 2: looking saying, please please keep give me my three bars,

374
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Speaker 2: don't go down to one. And there was one point

375
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Speaker 2: where I got down to one bar. I have pretty

376
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,719
Speaker 2: strong sell service, but it did go down to one,

377
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Speaker 2: and it made me really nervous.

378
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Speaker 1: So let's just say there's two people involved. Two strangers

379
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Speaker 1: in a truck. The women get to the deserted gas

380
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Speaker 1: station and pull in. Somebody pulls in behind them, gets

381
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Speaker 1: in their car, drives them three miles back and then

382
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Speaker 1: down roade l then gets them in the other vehicle,

383
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Speaker 1: and the four of them take off after some exchange

384
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Speaker 1: of something with a hammer. You're talking about a quick exchange, right,

385
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Speaker 1: and you're talking about again somebody risk being seen. So

386
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Speaker 1: here's the deal. Did Grandma do we know if she

387
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Speaker 1: were there waiting, or the babysitter or whoever, was taking

388
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Speaker 1: the children to meet up. Did she start texting her?

389
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Speaker 1: Because let's just say she's the ex mother in law

390
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Speaker 1: that doesn't think she's any good for these children. And

391
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Speaker 1: when she's a no show, it seems like she would

392
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Speaker 1: immediately notify the court. It seems like she would immediately

393
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Speaker 1: start texting Jillian. It seems like she would immediately start

394
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Speaker 1: getting in touch with a guardian, a lightem or whoever.

395
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Speaker 1: To say. I told y'all she was no good and

396
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: she didn't show up today. You won't return my calls

397
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: or text messages. Did that happen? Do we know?

398
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Speaker 2: We just don't know. I mean, the the OSBI hasn't

399
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: told us anything. I will say that I talked to

400
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 2: another friend today who didn't want to go on camera,

401
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: and she told me that, you know, the question has

402
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: been where the phones found? Where the purse is found?

403
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: And you know that's that's been you know the OSB.

404
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: I just they're doing a very good job of keeping

405
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 2: the information under wraps.

406
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: Right. Oh No, I think they should play this close

407
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: to the vast I think they shouldn't.

408
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: Be telling us, right, But everybody wants to know because

409
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: and for us, for news reporters, we want to help.

410
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: We want to shine a light. You know, I came

411
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Speaker 2: marching in here into Oklahoma thinking that, you know, I

412
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: was going to stumble upon a grid search, a K

413
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: nine search, a command post is ZIP. There's nothing. It

414
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 2: was quiet, There is nothing, nothing going on except for

415
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 2: two people that are volunteers that are out there on

416
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: horseback and driving around, you know, talking to ranchers and

417
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: trying to help. And that's what we're here to do,

418
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 2: you know what. We show their pictures, we give the

419
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: descriptions we are trying. We talk to the family members,

420
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 2: keeping the story alive, brings out tips, brings out people

421
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: that can give us a clue. It's part of what

422
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: we do. And we just have been stonewalled with this

423
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: particular case. But to your point, I just we just

424
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 2: don't know if the phones were in the in the car.

425
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 2: I heard that somebody said that they were missing Veronica,

426
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 2: and this is, you know, five days in and sent

427
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 2: her a Facebook message, you know, just like a DM

428
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: and just to say, hey, I hope you're okay. And

429
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: the this is you know, what somebody told me. I

430
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: don't have this verified, but this is one of the

431
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 2: stories that we've been told and that they looked at

432
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 2: the message and it said read like the message bubble changed.

433
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: Now is it Is it Veronica checking her message? Maybe not?

434
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 2: It could be the police, right, It could be the

435
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: police that have her phone.

436
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: Sure, they could have the phone.

437
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: They're watching to see, they're looking where, they're looking at

438
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 2: the digital footprint, they're looking at the messages that she had.

439
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: They're looking to see all over social media. But it

440
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: was just one of those you know, it's just one

441
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 2: of those things that happens that makes your heart stop

442
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: when you're hoping that your friend is going to be found. Okay.

443
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 2: But those are the types of little nuggets, little stories

444
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: that we're hearing with so many people so frustrated that

445
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: just want to know where are they? Are they okay?

446
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: If they're not okay, please tell us so that we

447
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: can help the family.

448
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: Again, understanding that this is a small town and lots

449
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: of wide open spaces between buildings and stores and that

450
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But you and I both on multiple occasions,

451
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 1: have been to Delphi and I could not go anywhere.

452
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: They're what a flywer? Are there? Flyers up? Has there

453
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: been a vigil? I know the churches have gotten together

454
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: to pray but is there any organization about putting their

455
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: faces out there?

456
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: There was a flyer I put that on my Instagram.

457
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 2: There was a flyer at a gas station, but it

458
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 2: was just it was on the door and it was

459
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: on the counter. And I asked the young lady that

460
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: was working as a cashier, I said, you know, have

461
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: you has anybody come in with tips? She said no,

462
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: we were just asked to put this out. And the

463
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 2: flyer was actually put out by Because I've asked the

464
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: OSBI for a copy of the flyer, they said it

465
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: didn't come from us, it came from the highway patrol.

466
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: So I've only seen two flyers. I haven't seen their

467
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: faces splashed everywhere, but again it's desolate. But in town,

468
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: I haven't even really seen them. But what I have

469
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: seen is yellow ribbons everywhere, yellow ribbons of hope on

470
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: the trees and the telephone polls. That's what you see everywhere.

471
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: You know, there's not a lot of information being shared,

472
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: which is the right call. But in any case like this,

473
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: when you have got a UG custody battle, the suspects

474
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: are going to be the ex, the ex mother in law.

475
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: Is it possibly a murder for hire? Who wanted her gone,

476
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: Who would benefit the most from her being gone? And

477
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: then who's most likely to help. Does the biological father

478
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: have siblings or cousins or a best friend it might

479
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: help get rid of them. Is it a trucker, is

480
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: it a stranger? And so this needs to be a

481
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: parallel investigation. I believe the electronics are going to be key.

482
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: I believe what was left in that car is going

483
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: to be key. The hammer and the cell phone would

484
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: be the money tree.

485
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 2: In my opinion, that's what we're hoping for. We're hoping

486
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: for information, We're hoping for anything, and just you know,

487
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: the desperation of the people that we spoke to. And again, no,

488
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 2: it's incredible the people that will not go on camera,

489
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: but people are really afraid, really a real sense of

490
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 2: fear here. This isn't like the other missing person's cases

491
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: I've covered, but the sense of fear, the talk of

492
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 2: sovereign citizens, and that's I keep hearing that over and

493
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: over again. I keep hearing about God's misfits. I keep

494
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: hearing about different groups that are out here in the country,

495
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: and people are just whatever connections there could be, and

496
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: I'm not saying there is, I'm just saying that these

497
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: are the types of words that are being spoken and

498
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: whispered because people are saying, I don't want to say anything,

499
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: because you know sovereign citizens that are out here, and

500
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 2: you know, these are people that don't believe that they're

501
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: you know, they don't adhere to the law, they don't

502
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: adhere to God's laws. They are they feel that they

503
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: can do what they want. And that's where the sense

504
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: of fear is coming from. That I can it's a

505
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: tangible sense that I can feel.

506
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: We do not know what happened to them, but I

507
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: will say for the record how lucky that sovereign citizen

508
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: would be that they came along and the victim that

509
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: they chose had a meet and date, time and location

510
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: that they were three miles away from when they were

511
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: stopped by this sovereign citizen. They were going to miss

512
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: a critical court date. They had somebody with means, motive,

513
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: an opportunity, especially the motive warning these children, basically trying

514
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: to raise them right now, not sharing them, not showing

515
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: up even though the court has directed them to do so.

516
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: They have an ex they've been fighting with for nine years.

517
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean, that's literally the entire life of the two

518
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: younger children. It was her car, which somebody in the

519
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: family would recognize from a distance. That's a lot for

520
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: me to absorb to say, yeah, none of that's got

521
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: anything to do with it. It's probably this person who's never

522
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: met her, never seen her, and took the risk to say, hey,

523
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to kidnap two women and leave enough evidences

524
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: in the car that OSBI thinks something terrible has happened.

525
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 2: And just again, I can't help, but I'm just staring.

526
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here staring at this court document. How are

527
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: how are these other three women? They're all women who

528
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: are the court approved supervisors of this exchange and visitation?

529
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: How are you feeling right now? If your name is Cheryl, Nileen, Robin,

530
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 2: Jillian was the last time? It was Easter weekend, right,

531
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: so a lot of people might have been out of town.

532
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: I don't have any knowledge of that, but I'm just

533
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: thinking of you know, they probably ticked down the list

534
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: and it was the pastor's wife who on a Saturday

535
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: before Easter said I can do it.

536
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: And so again, I would love to talk to the

537
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: other women on that list. What was Grandma like to

538
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: work with? Was she difficult? Was she kind? Was she easygoing?

539
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Y'all dealt with her? Y'all showed up to visitations. They

540
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: need to be interviewed immediately. Laura, I cannot thank you enough.

541
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: And again, y'all, I've just got to direct y'all to

542
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: Laura Ingle TV on Instagram and Laura Ingle on X

543
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: Her stuff is top drawer. She's a pro. You've heard her.

544
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: You know. She won't even let me get too far

545
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: out of bounds without bringing it back correctly. So, Laura,

546
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You stay safe out there and

547
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: we will talk to you again soon. And if anything breaks, honey,

548
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: let me know.

549
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

550
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I

551
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: always do with a quote. Narcissists don't co parent, They

552
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: counter parent. They don't care about the collateral damage done

553
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: to the children as long as it hurts you unknown.

554
00:30:48,960 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone seven, the FA