Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: Back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guys, what's up with your Brodie with
Speaker 1: the virtual handshake, I'm gonna tell you that I never
Speaker 1: told no back. I want to smoke. Welcome back season
Speaker 1: two All the Smoke with our new partner I Heart.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure for me to introduce strictly just one
Speaker 1: of my favorite humans. Former teammate of mine, good friend
Speaker 1: of mine, big fan of what he's doing off the
Speaker 1: court as well. Welcome JJ Reddick. Guys, thank you for
Speaker 1: having me, Appreciate you for coming on man, appreciate you.
Speaker 1: I feel the same way back. A funny story like
Speaker 1: and and it really made me change my thinking period
Speaker 1: when I because I just you know, JJ, you and
Speaker 1: most do guys have this like there's that stigma duke guy,
Speaker 1: and you were the ultimate duke guy. You know, all
Speaker 1: time leading score, accolade, a list of accolades, budget. I
Speaker 1: looked at him like, he just seems like he'd be
Speaker 1: an asshole, and that's just what I thought. I didn't
Speaker 1: know anything about you. I never met you teammates, you know,
Speaker 1: ended up being teammates with you in Orlando, and it
Speaker 1: just completely flipped my thinking on literally pre judging someone
Speaker 1: before I met him. I tell you, like, in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine, that was really my wake up call because
Speaker 1: I thought, O, this guy is probably whatever met you,
Speaker 1: one of the nicest, most humble, hardest working people I've
Speaker 1: ever met. Man, in this honor to call you a friend,
Speaker 1: and like I said, have you on the show today?
Speaker 1: We appreciate you. I appreciate that. Man. I remember when
Speaker 1: we met too, because it was we were doing Jamir
Speaker 1: Nelson's Week in Philadelphia. He would have everybody in August
Speaker 1: come to come to a Philly and you had just
Speaker 1: signed with us, and I probably had some preconceived notions
Speaker 1: of you too, honest. Let's be honest. Talking about first
Speaker 1: the first night I roll in and I was probably
Speaker 1: a couple of days late. I'll rolled in and uh.
Speaker 1: We went to the sushi place in Philly and I
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, Matt is the coolest dude I've ever met. Like,
Speaker 1: I was like, right away, I do. I knew. I
Speaker 1: knew we'd be Frances and stuff. Man, hey for life.
Speaker 1: There you go. Well, let's jump right into it. You
Speaker 1: got a chance to experience the NBA bubble. Um. I
Speaker 1: liked the safe environment they built. I like that you
Speaker 1: guys continued to keep the social justice message going and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know other things that apply to that.
Speaker 1: But talk to me about that. Because you were someone
Speaker 1: you know who obviously were stuck in the bubble for
Speaker 1: a while, didn't have your kids, didn't have your wife,
Speaker 1: how did all that kind of mix with going and
Speaker 1: playing and being away from your family. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: being away from the family was the hardest part. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not it's not really normal to be
Speaker 1: away from your wife and kids for basically seven weeks,
Speaker 1: because you know, we had a quarantine for two weeks
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. I lived Withdrew holiday when his family
Speaker 1: stayed in California. So we were together for like two
Speaker 1: weeks in New Orleans, and then we went to the
Speaker 1: bubble for five weeks. Just being away from them was
Speaker 1: really hard. But if you look, I mean, if you
Speaker 1: look at the at the bubble, it's been an overwhelming success. Look,
Speaker 1: we've had high level basketball, We've gotten all the way
Speaker 1: to the finals. There's been no COVID outbreak, not one whatsoever.
Speaker 1: You know, we had we had some COVID positives on arrival.
Speaker 1: Since then, we've had zero knock on wood. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think the players have shown that we
Speaker 1: are going to be relentless with our social justice messaging.
Speaker 1: Some of it I think has been really powerful. Um.
Speaker 1: And and I'm again I've said this a bunch of times. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm proud of my peers. I'm proud of
Speaker 1: our league and what we've been able to do over
Speaker 1: the last few months. The conversation that was going on,
Speaker 1: you know, inside the bubble, I no UK tell is everything,
Speaker 1: but with with with me. I see that some people
Speaker 1: actually didn't want to play at all and some did
Speaker 1: like was it was it more on the side of
Speaker 1: just of and not to play off boys, and more
Speaker 1: on the side of saying, you know what, hey, we
Speaker 1: gotta go out and play because I message is being
Speaker 1: heard more while we're playing. There was a few phone
Speaker 1: calls prior to us going down to Orlando that I
Speaker 1: was on. I was on one call on like a
Speaker 1: Friday or Saturday night in June with with about ninety guys. Um.
Speaker 1: There were definitely a few media members on the phone too.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they ended up getting a call
Speaker 1: in for that, for that zoom call. But you know,
Speaker 1: we we we talked about this, and there was definitely
Speaker 1: a group of guys who felt like we shouldn't play, uh,
Speaker 1: and then there was an overwhelming part of the league
Speaker 1: felt like this was an opportunity to further messaging, to
Speaker 1: to bring more awareness. Look, if we hadn't My my
Speaker 1: argument to that is like, if we hadn't played, what
Speaker 1: what is taking over the news cycle? You know, nobody's
Speaker 1: talking about NBA players if we're not playing. That's not
Speaker 1: how it works. That's not how it works at all.
Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna talk about Trump being an idiot
Speaker 1: the election, and as soon as football starts, that's all
Speaker 1: anybody cares about. So we're gonna we're gonna have two
Speaker 1: months in July and August where we control the news cycle.
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, the messaging early on was great.
Speaker 1: I thought some of the announcements were really really important.
Speaker 1: You know, the Social Action Fund that that d Wade
Speaker 1: and Mellow and CPS started, Malcolm Brockden started a family foundation.
Speaker 1: Um the league announced the partnership with the p A
Speaker 1: to to basically invest three hundred million dollars in black communities,
Speaker 1: Like those are real things. Those are things beyond just
Speaker 1: wearing a T shirt or kneeling, you know, in front
Speaker 1: of the flag for the national anthem. Those are real things.
Speaker 1: Those are things that are gonna have legitimate impacts impact
Speaker 1: in communities. UM. And then the stuff with voting, I
Speaker 1: think has been great. I had no prediction for for
Speaker 1: November three, UM, but I think the messaging that the
Speaker 1: league has had, that the p A has had, our
Speaker 1: players have had about just participating in this electoral process
Speaker 1: has been really important. And I think, as we saw
Speaker 1: with the Brianna Taylor case, are elected officials are the
Speaker 1: people that are making the loss. So we need to
Speaker 1: get the right elected officials in office to make the
Speaker 1: laws that reflect what the majority of Americans want. And
Speaker 1: that's what I talk about. Two When I tell people voting,
Speaker 1: it's just not on the federal level, because just as
Speaker 1: you said, it's on the local and state level. You know,
Speaker 1: the the a G, the the a D, the judges,
Speaker 1: the mayor, all these are elected positions that you know,
Speaker 1: come November three, we have an opportunity to vote on.
Speaker 1: So that's why I've been so adamant about voting, Like
Speaker 1: I said, not just on the federal level, but on
Speaker 1: your local and state level. Hey, can I just interject
Speaker 1: real quick? I just want to interject real quick, because
Speaker 1: I think people have a ton of questions about voting,
Speaker 1: and and I was literally having this conversation with my
Speaker 1: friend last night in my kitchen. It's it's one of
Speaker 1: the fucking most complicated things in the world. And there's
Speaker 1: so much uncertainty on clarity about all these issues, and
Speaker 1: that the rules are different state to state. I know
Speaker 1: you guys are doing a lot of stuff with voting.
Speaker 1: I just want to plug one thing real quick. I
Speaker 1: want to plug votes Save America votes Save America dot
Speaker 1: com slash registered. There's information on all fifty states. It's
Speaker 1: a two to three minute process to answer any questions
Speaker 1: you have about voting and to get yourself registered. It's
Speaker 1: the easiest thing. My my wife hadn't been registered since
Speaker 1: we moved to New York a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I wanted to switch where I was registered New York.
Speaker 1: I did it the other day. It took two minutes. Like, please,
Speaker 1: just go vote Save America dot com slash register it's
Speaker 1: the easiest thing, and we'll definitely put that up to
Speaker 1: when we air this episode so everyone will know that
Speaker 1: we appreciate that. With the NBA Playoffs being what they were, UM,
Speaker 1: very entertaining, very exciting, We're to the finals. Now. You
Speaker 1: got a chance to play with Jimmy. UM. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about what it was like playing with him and
Speaker 1: then when he left Philly to Miami. Your thoughts, Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: so I love playing with Jimmy. He's an interesting personality,
Speaker 1: and I think oftentimes with Jimmy it can rub certain
Speaker 1: people the wrong way. And and Matt you you and
Speaker 1: I play with CP, and and they're different personalities. But
Speaker 1: CP was similar in that way, Like if you didn't
Speaker 1: get CP, I can see where he would rub you
Speaker 1: the wrong way. I fucking love playing with CP. I
Speaker 1: love playing with Jimmy. UM. You know, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: I wish we had just ran it back in Philly. UM,
Speaker 1: But it was clear that they felt like they had
Speaker 1: to go in a different direction with both you know
Speaker 1: him and with me. And you know, I don't have
Speaker 1: horrible moves, both horrible moves, both horrib regrets about my
Speaker 1: decision last summer. I didn't have regrets. I had an
Speaker 1: unbelievable time in New Orleans. Clearly, Jimmy has no regrets
Speaker 1: about you know, his decision, Like it's working. He ended
Speaker 1: up in the perfect situation for him. You know, He's
Speaker 1: an environment that just like promotes everything that he's about
Speaker 1: and and he can just be himself and become pfortable
Speaker 1: and and that rubs off because he does have an
Speaker 1: amazing personality and that just rubs off on everyone else.
Speaker 1: It's it's been it's been awesome to watch. I give
Speaker 1: so much love to the Heat on my podcast Everything
Speaker 1: is I'm going to Miami Heat in one Like. It's
Speaker 1: not about that, It's just about as a fan, like,
Speaker 1: I just appreciate what they've been able to to do.
Speaker 1: They never tanked, They've always been able to just pivot
Speaker 1: very quickly and maintain this this winning environment and this
Speaker 1: winning culture. And when you get the right mix of
Speaker 1: players and the right mix of personalities that leads to
Speaker 1: being a championship contender, which they are this year. That's
Speaker 1: an interesting the way you put that too. Because Jack
Speaker 1: has a relationship with Jimmy Butler, and I've only known
Speaker 1: him as an opponent. I would ask Jack, like what
Speaker 1: Jimmy was like, because I always kind of wondered sometimes
Speaker 1: he'd say some crazy ship and I'd see him say
Speaker 1: some amazing things, and all I've know that he played
Speaker 1: hard and I he to me, he's probably the most
Speaker 1: blue collar superstar we have in this league. Jack, what
Speaker 1: what what is your like? What's your relationship with Jimmy?
Speaker 1: That goes back to Houston? Yeah, you know, meet me
Speaker 1: being a little old and him watching me and me
Speaker 1: making it. You know, he kind of looked up to
Speaker 1: me a little bit to the point where we got
Speaker 1: to the league and I was I was kind of
Speaker 1: mentor to him because our attitudes and what we approached
Speaker 1: the game is the same. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: people didn't understand me. They said I was this and
Speaker 1: I was that, you know, but one thing they couldn't
Speaker 1: say is I couldn't play basketball. And that was what
Speaker 1: what me and Jimmy had it had it had it?
Speaker 1: Uh what's said? We had similar We both loved the game.
Speaker 1: We both played with a lot of passion, and uh,
Speaker 1: I see a lot of myself and Jimmy. Jimmy just
Speaker 1: a lot of way more stronger, way more athletic than me.
Speaker 1: But you know, the way we proached the game was
Speaker 1: what we had in common, and it brought us to
Speaker 1: the point where we have like a brotherhood. Now we
Speaker 1: talk all the time and I'm one of his biggest fans. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you with just just a player's reputation. And you guys
Speaker 1: know this because because we've all switched teams a number
Speaker 1: of times, and so you're going into a locker room
Speaker 1: or a guy gets traded into your locker room, and
Speaker 1: that guy carries with him whatever whatever the book says
Speaker 1: that he is right. Yeah, right, And I think as
Speaker 1: as teammates in the NBA, it's our responsibility to give
Speaker 1: every guy sort of a fair shot and give every
Speaker 1: guy a clean slate. And I've tried to do that
Speaker 1: throughout my career. I'm glad Matt gave me a chance
Speaker 1: back at O nine. Glad that gave me a chance.
Speaker 1: You know, It's funny because, like you know, Jimmy carried
Speaker 1: with him this reputation from Chicago and from Minnesota, and
Speaker 1: within two weeks of him being in Philly, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I'm gonna go hang with this guy,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna go to every meal on the road.
Speaker 1: I'm with Jimmy like it's so it's it's interesting how
Speaker 1: reputation isn't always reality, right, And I think both together,
Speaker 1: both of you guys. Because I played with Jack two
Speaker 1: in in in in l A with the Clippers a
Speaker 1: quick stop with us for a ten day. I told
Speaker 1: him about that. You made me say, you made me sell.
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with you by the watch. I
Speaker 1: remember walking in the locker room one Dad's men a
Speaker 1: new diamond watch. Matt, you know I'm I'm hang too,
Speaker 1: because I won't everybody he ship my guys j J.
Speaker 1: He just quietly sits on the side of me and
Speaker 1: gets explained to me about my watch, what kind of
Speaker 1: watches I need to have, on how much they cast,
Speaker 1: on how much my watch I had on one ship
Speaker 1: I wouldn't sold them all real Shortly after that he's
Speaker 1: a watch student. It made me feel good because I
Speaker 1: had I had a watch that he really liked, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't sell it to him, and I ended up
Speaker 1: losing that bitch. I should have just sold it to him,
Speaker 1: but he really liked it and I wouldn't sell it
Speaker 1: to him. I wearing around him all the time and
Speaker 1: he wanted to buy and I wouldn't sell to him.
Speaker 1: Then I lost that fucking thing. What you got rid
Speaker 1: of all your watches though? J J Yeah I did
Speaker 1: hold on it was Matt. Was that the that was
Speaker 1: the watch that C Webb gave you? Yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: that was when I tried to get that watch you
Speaker 1: a few times. Yeah, Jack, I sold everything. Man. You
Speaker 1: ever heard that You ever heard the phrase your possessions
Speaker 1: shouldn't possess you? Yes? Yes, I got your man with
Speaker 1: with watches where it was like it was like an
Speaker 1: all consuming thing. And I mean you guys have both
Speaker 1: been around me, like I have an obsessive and an
Speaker 1: addictive personality. When I'm really into something, I just go
Speaker 1: all out on it. And and it's one of the
Speaker 1: reasons you know, I've I've had a long basketball career
Speaker 1: because that is my my first love. But you know,
Speaker 1: I got into watch it so hard, man. It was
Speaker 1: just it was taken up too much of my time,
Speaker 1: and it got to the point where I'm like, Yo,
Speaker 1: this is such a this is such a selfish pursuit.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like no one's getting any enjoyment out
Speaker 1: of this except me, Like my my wife's not benefiting
Speaker 1: from this. My kids aren't like my friends aren't like
Speaker 1: I'm the only person wearing the watches. Yeah, j J
Speaker 1: J J j J was sleeping with the motherfucker's he
Speaker 1: had to get rid of him. Left to him is
Speaker 1: either her or the watches. Growing up in Rowan, Over, Virginia,
Speaker 1: when did basketball kick in for you? I would say
Speaker 1: I became obsessed with it and and like loved it
Speaker 1: when I was twelve twelve thirteen, so like basically seventh grade,
Speaker 1: and that was a year that I quit baseball. And
Speaker 1: I was probably better at baseball truthfully, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: basketball at the time, but um my dad kind of
Speaker 1: was just like, you don't have time to do both.
Speaker 1: And so growing up like I was, my idols were
Speaker 1: my older sisters. I've older twin sisters. So when while
Speaker 1: I was super young, they rode horses competitively, so I
Speaker 1: taught my you know, I learned how to ride a horse.
Speaker 1: Then they started playing softball, so I started playing baseball.
Speaker 1: And then when they were thirteen, they were like six one,
Speaker 1: so they started playing basketball. They ended up getting a
Speaker 1: D one ride to a small school in North Carolina
Speaker 1: called Campbell. So when they started playing basketball, thirteen. That's
Speaker 1: why I started playing at eight. And by the time
Speaker 1: I was twelve or thirteen, I was pretty good. And
Speaker 1: then I hit a grosbur I broke my wrist three
Speaker 1: times in six months. And when I my my wrist
Speaker 1: was broken, I just shot one handed. And from that
Speaker 1: point on, you know, I was I was a great shooter,
Speaker 1: and I was I was addicted. And the shooting part
Speaker 1: of basketball for me is is the drug. I mean,
Speaker 1: seeing that ball go through the hoops, it's the drug. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Obviously a very decadated high school career, McDonald's All American
Speaker 1: UH State champions scored forty three points in the championship game.
Speaker 1: Those are your album Bundy Days recruited you ended up
Speaker 1: choosing Duke Um. What was it about Duke that that
Speaker 1: spoke right to you? Buy out Bundy Days? You know
Speaker 1: you when when he reminisces about his Polk High days.
Speaker 1: I used to do this in high school and do
Speaker 1: that in high school. But you really had the accolades. Yeah, honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean I I was a Duke fan since I
Speaker 1: was like eight, since I first started playing basketball, and
Speaker 1: my first year of basketball was when they had had
Speaker 1: won their second national championship against UM against UH. I
Speaker 1: guess it was Michigan that year, Yeah, because they beat Kansas.
Speaker 1: So they beat Michigan in two And I probably watched
Speaker 1: that game like twenty times. Somebody had had taped it
Speaker 1: on VHS at our house and then it ended up
Speaker 1: getting taped over by the sound of music. I was
Speaker 1: fucking passed. I had that game memorized for like two
Speaker 1: years UM and so it was like by the time
Speaker 1: I got to high school, man, like, I was getting
Speaker 1: recruited by a lot of teams, you know, like uv
Speaker 1: A and and I was from Virginia's UVA was on
Speaker 1: the hard and UH Texas, Stanford, Billy Donovan. It was
Speaker 1: a Florida at the time, and I was really interested
Speaker 1: in going there, but it was always a situation where
Speaker 1: if coach k and Duke had made me an offer,
Speaker 1: like I was gonna go there, you know it was.
Speaker 1: It was the hardest part for me was saying no
Speaker 1: to uv A because I did feel some sense of loyalty.
Speaker 1: My family had lived in Charlottesville for a few years
Speaker 1: before we moved to run Oake, and you know, I
Speaker 1: had some friends that were going to go to UVA.
Speaker 1: My my best friend in high school was gonna go
Speaker 1: play baseball and football there. So it was that was
Speaker 1: the hardest part, was just saying no to them. But
Speaker 1: going to Duke was it was the dream come true.
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't really, I
Speaker 1: didn't really bad and I it was like, you have
Speaker 1: a chance to come. Here's your you know, here's your offer.
Speaker 1: And then like three days later I called Coach K
Speaker 1: and I said, all right, I'm coming mess dope. I mean,
Speaker 1: with a rich history at Duke, with all the All
Speaker 1: Americans and NBA players, they turned out, you know, two
Speaker 1: time a c C Player of the Year, all time
Speaker 1: Duke leading score. What was your experience like there, and
Speaker 1: and tell us about Coach K? What was like playing
Speaker 1: with him? And what did you learn from him? I
Speaker 1: feel like I had I had two chapters of my
Speaker 1: due career and it was, you know, my freshman sophomore
Speaker 1: year and my junior and senior year. And my first
Speaker 1: chapter was really hard. Um. This was the chapter that
Speaker 1: made Matt Barnes think I was an asshole, and most
Speaker 1: of America thought I was an asshole. You know, I
Speaker 1: I you're you're eighteen years old as a freshman and I,
Speaker 1: you know, I played in at that point, I played
Speaker 1: in a lot of big games, but it's never in
Speaker 1: front of fans. And you go on your first road
Speaker 1: game and it's at Clemson. You're like twelve games into
Speaker 1: your freshman year, and the entire student section is yelling
Speaker 1: profanities at you. I had in college my first two years,
Speaker 1: I had this like bad acne and shoulder acne. And
Speaker 1: so you see kids like wearing these mock duke four
Speaker 1: number four jerseys and they've painted these red dots all
Speaker 1: over their shoulders and there's signs about your family, and
Speaker 1: You're like, holy sh it, what did I just sign
Speaker 1: up for? And you know, I'm not. I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: somebody that's gonna like back down from that. So then
Speaker 1: I sort of started creating this persona on the court,
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of head bobbing, a lot
Speaker 1: of trash talking. It was. It was a lot like
Speaker 1: how Jack played in the NBA UM only I was
Speaker 1: just it was just a fucking cocky white kid, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So everybody hated me, and you know,
Speaker 1: by the end of my sophomore year, I was so
Speaker 1: distraught about it, and I had gone to a really
Speaker 1: bad place and had had misbehaved, I would say misbehaved.
Speaker 1: My sophomore year, I tried to quit. I told my
Speaker 1: sisters I wanted to quit, like this was December of
Speaker 1: my sophomore year two because like this, this is not
Speaker 1: for me. It is not what I signed up for.
Speaker 1: And I had basically a come to Jesus moment with
Speaker 1: coach k In in late May of my sophomore year.
Speaker 1: I guess it was after my sophomore years, sommer between
Speaker 1: sophomore junior year, and he sat me down the office
Speaker 1: and he just said, look, man, he's like, you've been good,
Speaker 1: like you you know, you were all a sec last
Speaker 1: year and you were a third team All American, we
Speaker 1: made the final four. It's like you've been good, but
Speaker 1: what you're doing isn't good enough. And coach Collins who's
Speaker 1: now at Northwestern, Chris Collins, Duck collins Son, he said,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. He said, the sad thing is we'll
Speaker 1: never know how good you can be. And I was like, fuck,
Speaker 1: that hurts. That hurts. And that summer I had them
Speaker 1: make me a schedule to the hour. I still have
Speaker 1: the fucking spreadsheet a in a notebook in my house.
Speaker 1: They have me to the hour, you know, eight am,
Speaker 1: wake up, eight thirty, breakfast, nine am, checking with coach Collins,
Speaker 1: ten am class And it was down the line, you know, lifting, conditioning, basketball, courtwork, study, hall,
Speaker 1: lights out, ten pm, and oh I and I had
Speaker 1: to carry a jug of water around the entire summer.
Speaker 1: I had to have like a gallon jug of water
Speaker 1: with me at all times. Was that to replace the beer? Yes,
Speaker 1: it was to replace the beer. If you guys want
Speaker 1: to know stories, I feel like this is the type
Speaker 1: of podcast where I tell stories my sophomore year but
Speaker 1: as a walking around campus with the jug of water.
Speaker 1: So I did that all summer. They didn't let me
Speaker 1: play USA basketball. They're like, we want you here, we
Speaker 1: want you in our environment, and man it was. It
Speaker 1: was the best thing that ever happened for me. I
Speaker 1: lost like twenty three pounds I was. I was over
Speaker 1: two fifteen at that time in May of my my
Speaker 1: sophomore year. I started my junior year at like one
Speaker 1: nine two. I was an unbelievable shape. I won every
Speaker 1: preseason conditioning thing our team had that year, and I
Speaker 1: got National Player of the Year of my junior year
Speaker 1: and a CC Player of the Year. We were we
Speaker 1: were underman squad. We ended up getting a number one
Speaker 1: seed in the NC Doubly Tournament with won ACC Championship,
Speaker 1: lost in the sweet sixteen. Like it was. It was
Speaker 1: absolutely that year was the turning point in my life.
Speaker 1: And it was all that that jugga fucking water, That's
Speaker 1: all it was. Hey, what what? What was the n
Speaker 1: C n C and Duke Robber was like, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna mix two stories here. I'm gonna miss mix
Speaker 1: two topics. I know Matt wants to hear some stories.
Speaker 1: So the n C n C double, the Duke QUNC
Speaker 1: rivalry was was was crazy. There was not nothing else
Speaker 1: like it. And you know, growing up a Duke fan,
Speaker 1: you have such an appreciation for that rivalry. And my
Speaker 1: first time playing and it was a Duke game at
Speaker 1: home against UNC my freshman year and the crowd was
Speaker 1: just different. The buzz, the energy was just different. And
Speaker 1: you know, looking back, it feels like a Game seven
Speaker 1: of a playoff game, and that's what a Duke UNC
Speaker 1: game feels like. My sophomore year, we're playing, We're we're winning,
Speaker 1: We're gonna win the a CC regular season where the
Speaker 1: number one team in the country US in Yukon, we're
Speaker 1: basically number one or number two the whole season. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna win the a C C. And it's the
Speaker 1: night before the Duke qu n C game and it's
Speaker 1: game days there, so they got like the whole set
Speaker 1: up out in villets out there. Oh it's popping. So
Speaker 1: I've been my I'm in my dorm room on West
Speaker 1: Campus and I have a few friends over. We we
Speaker 1: have a few beers or whatever, and so we get
Speaker 1: the idea that we should go down to ski Ville
Speaker 1: because that's where the party is tonight. It was a
Speaker 1: Friday night, it was a Saturday night game. So we
Speaker 1: go down the air and like I ended up playing
Speaker 1: beer pong with you and C fans, my roommates running
Speaker 1: through ski Ville screaming at people, waking them up, making
Speaker 1: them take shots of Captain Morgan's This is pre cell
Speaker 1: phones with cameras, you know, this is pre social media,
Speaker 1: like wet like looking back, like I have got kicked
Speaker 1: off the team. I would have been a rap. It
Speaker 1: would have been a rap. How did you play in
Speaker 1: that game though? How did you play in that game
Speaker 1: that night next night. Not great in the first half,
Speaker 1: not great in the first half, but I had a
Speaker 1: good second half. I ended up with fifteen points, uh
Speaker 1: and and made the made the made the game winning
Speaker 1: defensive play, believe it or not, shot mccannson the dove
Speaker 1: on a loose ball, got fouled, and and hit the
Speaker 1: game clinching free throws. Before we transition to the NBA,
Speaker 1: I wanted to touch on something because you faced it,
Speaker 1: you know, starting in college. And that's just the heckling
Speaker 1: you received, um and I'm sure some of it. You
Speaker 1: heard white boy this, white boy that, and I know
Speaker 1: you heard in a lot in the n b A.
Speaker 1: And you were someone when I talked about when this
Speaker 1: Montrez Herald and Luca thing came up, when he said
Speaker 1: something about bitch ass white boy. And I was one
Speaker 1: to say that that's very commonly said. It's said a lot.
Speaker 1: You've probably been called worse. What was your thought when
Speaker 1: um that happened, Because I I know you're someone that
Speaker 1: took a lot of it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And you we used to mess around with you in
Speaker 1: the locker room, and you know, say you had black
Speaker 1: in you and all kinds of different things. So I
Speaker 1: just wanted to get a perspective, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: your perspective on that, because there were so many different
Speaker 1: takes and obviously we're in a heightened sense of awareness
Speaker 1: of what's going on in the culture, in the country
Speaker 1: or now. But what was your take on that JJ
Speaker 1: wanted that ship, he wanted this ship. Yeah, I told you,
Speaker 1: JJ's got black. No. Look, when you play high level
Speaker 1: basketball and you go back to a AU when I
Speaker 1: was twelve years old, I'm a white guy playing a
Speaker 1: black guys sport, Like, that's just the best reality. There's
Speaker 1: nothing like, there's nothing racist about that. The majority of
Speaker 1: great players in the NBA are black, Okay, majority of
Speaker 1: great players, and you were black. I was one of
Speaker 1: the few white dudes on my AU teams being called
Speaker 1: a bitch as white boys something that I've heard since
Speaker 1: I was like twelve or thirteen. I laughed when Montress said,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, ship, you know, and I thought
Speaker 1: it was hilarious. But also get we are in a time,
Speaker 1: it's a different time at a time right now where
Speaker 1: everything is exposed and you know, every little thing that's
Speaker 1: said is just so raw, and the emotions are so high,
Speaker 1: so you know, you take out the timing and I
Speaker 1: don't think it's that big of a deal. But I understand.
Speaker 1: I understood the reaction to it, whether it was talking
Speaker 1: heads or people on social media making a big deal
Speaker 1: of it. I understand. But like, I just don't think
Speaker 1: there's reverse racism. I just don't think that exists. Um,
Speaker 1: you can't say there's reverse racism towards white people, like
Speaker 1: white people in this country have controlled and dominated this
Speaker 1: country for four hundred years. There's no like, there's no
Speaker 1: reverse rate. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. So I
Speaker 1: I just I would say it's just normal on a
Speaker 1: basketball court, like to tell somebody a white you know,
Speaker 1: stupid white boy or bitch ass white boy or punkast
Speaker 1: white boy, Like it's just normal. I've heard someone call
Speaker 1: you a bitch ass niggas, So I was one. Like
Speaker 1: I wondered, like if that's what he would have heard it.
Speaker 1: I wondered if if that's what Montrez would have said,
Speaker 1: what people have tripped out if he said that to
Speaker 1: Luca instead of calling him a bit chass white Because
Speaker 1: like I said, I used JJ in this example when
Speaker 1: I was art because I didn't heard j J called everything.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? In JJ sru that off,
Speaker 1: whether bot or not, I never knew it. He shrugged
Speaker 1: it off. We always had jokes, you know, running jokes
Speaker 1: that j J had black and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I I was interesting for me. I knew when
Speaker 1: we finally got his hands to have a conversation about it.
Speaker 1: I wanted your perspective because as I thought, just like
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: But obviously that the time and everything is about timing,
Speaker 1: I think, and you guys have dealt with this too
Speaker 1: in your life, like words definitely have power. Um, I
Speaker 1: would say, as athletes, we we live in a high
Speaker 1: pressure environment constantly, Like we we we deal with performance
Speaker 1: anxiety constantly, We deal with ridicule and critique constantly, and
Speaker 1: so we're constantly barraged with words. And you do you
Speaker 1: do grow like a like an insensitivity in some ways
Speaker 1: to the words that are being said to you. And
Speaker 1: so the Duke experience for me, like you can't say
Speaker 1: you could someone has said something to me or one
Speaker 1: of my family members. You can't say anything else. There's
Speaker 1: no other words you can use to talk to me. Um.
Speaker 1: Now when you talk about specifically the N word, right,
Speaker 1: and the use of that. That's where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's all kind of off limits to white people. Let's
Speaker 1: let's be honest, like that's not a word that ever
Speaker 1: should come out of any white person's mouth. You know.
Speaker 1: That's that's not a that's not a word in an
Speaker 1: end of vocabulary, you know. So that's where it's like,
Speaker 1: there's certain words that carry more weight, and that's that's
Speaker 1: one of those words. Hey, but I have to say
Speaker 1: this though, and me being a real one where I
Speaker 1: grew up in some of the places I hang around,
Speaker 1: it's some white people that grew up and have the
Speaker 1: same struggles, grow up with the same problems that black
Speaker 1: people grow up in where they become family. And I've
Speaker 1: heard some white people address black people like that because
Speaker 1: they're comfortable like that and the same they've they've they've
Speaker 1: been doing the same struggles growing up, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And some of those black people rely on
Speaker 1: some white people that they grew up with more than
Speaker 1: they can rely on their whole family. So I've heard
Speaker 1: some white people say, what's something my nigga to people
Speaker 1: that they are related to. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: but you have to come from these areas to understand
Speaker 1: that without thinking it's some racist ship. I think, to me,
Speaker 1: that's a case by case, situation by situation um experience,
Speaker 1: because you know, in some of the ways, I've heard
Speaker 1: white people say it didn't get a past and be
Speaker 1: okay with it. But you know, overall, I definitely agree
Speaker 1: with you, j J. It's not something that you know
Speaker 1: should be in a white person's vocabulary. But you and I.
Speaker 1: We had a teammate with the Clippers who used to
Speaker 1: try to get me to say it to him, like nah, man,
Speaker 1: like nah that ship nah because like yo, like we're brothers. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: me and you were cool, But I say that I
Speaker 1: say that to you around the wrong person that that
Speaker 1: word carries. J A. DeAndre was trying to set him up.
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised who that was either, j J. Eleventh
Speaker 1: pick in the draft in two thousand and six, someone
Speaker 1: who was a college star comes into the league, scrapping
Speaker 1: and fighting for every minute possible. You're three. You guys
Speaker 1: run into Lebron. Uh. You guys knock out the Celtics
Speaker 1: minus KG, knock out the reigning m v P Lebron
Speaker 1: James and faced Kobe and the Lakers in the finals.
Speaker 1: What was that like being on that stage and only
Speaker 1: your third year removed from college, Man, some of the
Speaker 1: some of the best memories of my career, to be
Speaker 1: honest with you. And and that playoff run was really
Speaker 1: the turning point in my career because I came out
Speaker 1: of college with a lot of confidence and I got
Speaker 1: punched in the mouth my first two years. I really
Speaker 1: got punched in the mouth, and to the point where,
Speaker 1: you know, that summer between my second and third year,
Speaker 1: I had to read like reshape my body. I had
Speaker 1: to I had to basically redo my my sophomore to
Speaker 1: junior year back at Duke all over again. And at
Speaker 1: that point, it was about survival and it was about
Speaker 1: sticking in the league. And I remember having conversations with
Speaker 1: my agent that summer like what would what would be
Speaker 1: options in Europe? Like how does how to work in Russia?
Speaker 1: A three year um So that playoff run, you know,
Speaker 1: I was finally like a rotation player, but there were
Speaker 1: still some nights where I got those d NP coaches decisions,
Speaker 1: you know, And that playoff run, Corny League broke his
Speaker 1: face in game five against Philly in the first round.
Speaker 1: So I started Game six, which was a closeout game
Speaker 1: in Philly on the road, and I hit five threes,
Speaker 1: played really well. Then I started the whole Boston series.
Speaker 1: I guarded Ray Allen the whole series and then got
Speaker 1: to you know, we beat Cleveland, I got to play
Speaker 1: against Kobe in the finals. So you know that that
Speaker 1: to me gave me all the confidence like I belonged
Speaker 1: to the NBA um. You know. I remember distinctly like
Speaker 1: feeling in the Boston series like okay, like this is it,
Speaker 1: Like this is what I've been after for three years.
Speaker 1: You know, We're we're in Boston and KG was hurt
Speaker 1: and he's fucking screaming at me the whole game, you know,
Speaker 1: just obscenities from the bench, and I'm like, this is
Speaker 1: what I want. This is what I want, you know,
Speaker 1: all the way over there on the other bench, you know,
Speaker 1: and a suit like I was for most of my
Speaker 1: first two years. So that playoff run was was like
Speaker 1: changing for me. And truthfully, like we all have Kobe stories,
Speaker 1: and I have I have a couple, like more personal ones,
Speaker 1: but but I'm like eighty hopefully I'm still alive. But
Speaker 1: when I'm like eighty, I'm gonna tell my grandkids, like
Speaker 1: I guarded Kobe Bryant in the SPA Finals, and yes
Speaker 1: he got the best of me, but I had some stops.
Speaker 1: I had some stops. Checking are now are you counting
Speaker 1: stuffs when you when when he passed the ball or
Speaker 1: you actually stopped him? Come on, man, come on man,
Speaker 1: don't do that. So the following year, you guys, you
Speaker 1: guys battle l A, fall short to l A. The
Speaker 1: next season, myself and Vince come, we have a you know,
Speaker 1: a great season. You play all eighty two games. You know,
Speaker 1: you were one of our consistent guys night and night out.
Speaker 1: I've always kind of had a feeling of what happened
Speaker 1: because you remember, if you remember J j As when
Speaker 1: we beat this ship out of Jack in Charlotte. We
Speaker 1: swept him and beat him, but like thirty a game,
Speaker 1: and although Jack had a couple of games where you
Speaker 1: got some points, we just beat the ship out of
Speaker 1: his team, beat the breaks off and then we destroyed
Speaker 1: Atlanta and then correct me if I'm wrong it didn't.
Speaker 1: We go into the West Eastern Conference finals and stand
Speaker 1: was on some ship like that. You know this is
Speaker 1: a very you know, veteran driven team. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: to switch a little bit of the offense something completely
Speaker 1: fucking give our offensive facelift, or am I was I
Speaker 1: just smoking too much weed back then? I think you've
Speaker 1: always been spoken too much weed. Um. First of all,
Speaker 1: Game four of the Charlotte series, we're up three. Oh,
Speaker 1: keep in mind, and it's like the second quarter and
Speaker 1: Jack makes it three and he's like, I'm still here.
Speaker 1: I'm still fucking here, going back down the court. I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: you asked about to get swept. Man, shut up, Jack,
Speaker 1: Come on, man, you guys had no change anyway. He's right, right,
Speaker 1: I thought, Matt. I thought two ten truthfully was the
Speaker 1: best team that that was the best team I played
Speaker 1: on the NBA. Even though we made the finals of No. Nine,
Speaker 1: Our two thousand and ten team was the best team
Speaker 1: I played on most games up one in the NBA.
Speaker 1: We had a stretch where we were thirty three and
Speaker 1: eight to end this season, and then we went eight
Speaker 1: know in the playoffs. So we're going to that Boston
Speaker 1: series on at eight run beating the ship out of people.
Speaker 1: And I think, as often times happened with really really
Speaker 1: smart coaches and really detail oriented coaches is that they
Speaker 1: can get ahead of themselves. So they it was almost
Speaker 1: like stand adjusted before they had to because then we
Speaker 1: we beat them. We were in the season series. We
Speaker 1: beat them three one, right if I'm not mistaken, and
Speaker 1: so they you know, it was you know, TIBs was
Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator. It was all that strong side stuff,
Speaker 1: guy at the nail week side, pulling all the way
Speaker 1: over and Stan just felt like it wasn't in our
Speaker 1: best interest to run like a steady diet of of
Speaker 1: high picking rolls. So it was what we wanted, like motion,
Speaker 1: but it was just more like side to side stuff
Speaker 1: and looking back like that's how everybody plays now. But
Speaker 1: it was like an adjustment on the fly we had
Speaker 1: to make, and it just, you know it, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think that it it fit all of our personnel,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Like for me, it was great
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, I don't want to get
Speaker 1: in a wrestling match with Tony Allen, you know, in
Speaker 1: a half court setting, but if you get me on
Speaker 1: the move and the balls movement, okay, now I can
Speaker 1: attack a club and make a play. So it was
Speaker 1: a great series for me. But I think for a
Speaker 1: lot of our guys, they we hadn't played that way
Speaker 1: the whole year. So we get down three. Oh, we
Speaker 1: win a couple of games and then were losing game six,
Speaker 1: and you know, Matt, I mean, I know you ended
Speaker 1: up winning one in uh in Golden State, but it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, for me, I didn't realize that was gonna
Speaker 1: be my like, you know, ten years later, that was
Speaker 1: my last chance, you know, the last real chance that
Speaker 1: I've had. You know, I'm under the assumption, like I know,
Speaker 1: we'll be back next year. We had I think we
Speaker 1: had the best team in the league this year. We'll
Speaker 1: be back next year. And then Lebron and Chris Bosh
Speaker 1: and d Way go to Miami and and then as
Speaker 1: they're transitioning out, so the Warriors come along. And so
Speaker 1: it's like those two years in Orlando where we had
Speaker 1: a legit chance to win, like that was our window.
Speaker 1: Close that window it closed fast, closed, really fast. You
Speaker 1: know that that I always say that was one of
Speaker 1: the most talented teams. We had a legit ten guys
Speaker 1: that were ready to go to battle the war anytime
Speaker 1: we were too deep at every position. Stan was one
Speaker 1: of the best X and those coaches I ever had.
Speaker 1: But I always felt like, and I remember when Shack
Speaker 1: would say he would panic and get nervous, and I
Speaker 1: think you put it more elegantly, obviously, I think he
Speaker 1: overthought the situation we were adjusting before we even got
Speaker 1: into the situation, you know. I mean, we had success
Speaker 1: against him in the regular season, and we overthought our situation.
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, you know the word would say though
Speaker 1: like st stand like there's no there's no perfect coach.
Speaker 1: I think Stan probably had a bigger impact on my
Speaker 1: career than any coach I played for Doc as well,
Speaker 1: because Doc was the first coach who who let me be,
Speaker 1: you know, who looked at me as a starter and
Speaker 1: gave me more of a role in an offense. Um.
Speaker 1: But but staying, you know, probably the best coach that
Speaker 1: I played for in the NBA, you know, And and
Speaker 1: and I hate that I hate that Shaq had to
Speaker 1: say that about him or you know that we have
Speaker 1: to sit here and talk about this, because I always did.
Speaker 1: I always felt like in a playoff series, I felt
Speaker 1: like Stan was gonna get us a win, like he
Speaker 1: was going for smart, he was gonna make an adjustment
Speaker 1: or come up with a game playing in game three,
Speaker 1: year game four, or even steal one in game one,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna do this and they're not expecting it.
Speaker 1: Um And and it worked a lot of time, and
Speaker 1: and he he would always get us a game just
Speaker 1: because you know, he was so prepared and he worked
Speaker 1: so hard. He took such responsibility on what he could control,
Speaker 1: and and he was great for that. His attention to detail,
Speaker 1: I've second to none as far as coaches. He was
Speaker 1: the Only thing I didn't like about Staying was our
Speaker 1: fucking tape tape shoot arounds with kneepads. I'm like, damn Staying,
Speaker 1: we can't cruise like we had real Like, bro, we
Speaker 1: were taped with kneepad didn't shoot around. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: What was Matt like as a teammate. I mean, Matt's
Speaker 1: just the same guy I'm talking to right now. You know,
Speaker 1: this is what I was talking earlier about your reputation.
Speaker 1: Like when people ask me, like, who are the best
Speaker 1: teammates you've had in your career, I'm like, Matt Barnes
Speaker 1: is definitely one of them. He was a great teammate.
Speaker 1: I think you know, I saw this in Orlando but
Speaker 1: it was a different group when I got to l A,
Speaker 1: the way that him and DJ brought everybody together, Like
Speaker 1: if you were the fifteenth guy on that team, you
Speaker 1: felt like you were part of that team. It did
Speaker 1: there there was no there was no like status on
Speaker 1: the team plane or status in the locker room. Like
Speaker 1: they just had an amazing way of making every guy
Speaker 1: on that team, uh feel feel special. And that was
Speaker 1: I mean that that was best rare man that that
Speaker 1: just doesn't happen a ton in the NBA. And truthfully,
Speaker 1: like that was a lesson that I learned, and I've
Speaker 1: taken that with me now as I've gotten older, and
Speaker 1: you know, then the mentor thing like it's important to
Speaker 1: just involve everybody because you know, we get so caught
Speaker 1: up throughout a season, like about what's going on with me,
Speaker 1: what's going on with me, I'm playing well, I'm playing bad, whatever,
Speaker 1: And you gotta keep in mind, like there's there's three
Speaker 1: or four guys every night that leave that arena pissed, Yeah,
Speaker 1: pissed because they didn't play or they were they were
Speaker 1: in a suit or um, you know, they got their
Speaker 1: run in the first half, but didn't get their run
Speaker 1: in the second half, and so you know, doing the
Speaker 1: checking with those guys man is important, and I think
Speaker 1: DJ and Matt were always were always great about that.
Speaker 1: We've seen the how important Dwight Howard has been um along,
Speaker 1: you know, throughout these playoffs for the Lake. I think
Speaker 1: for the whole season. I said at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the season when the Lakers signed to White, I think
Speaker 1: this was his make or break season. He could be
Speaker 1: done after this season if he didn't come with the
Speaker 1: right mindset. But I thought if he came with the
Speaker 1: right mindset, he'd be a huge asset for the Lakers.
Speaker 1: And he's Kim with the right mindset. What if you've
Speaker 1: seen from Dwight now? And can you just remind people,
Speaker 1: because how fast they forget how fucking amazing Dwight Hard
Speaker 1: was when you played with him in Orlando. First ballot
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer, Yes, no questions. Should have should have
Speaker 1: won the m v P in two thousand eleven, of
Speaker 1: the year after you left Matt, But he should have
Speaker 1: won the year Derek Rose won it. Great story and
Speaker 1: they were the number one seed. Great story, but Dwight
Speaker 1: was the most valuable person in basketball the year he
Speaker 1: should have won m VP. What I've seen this year
Speaker 1: is just embracing a role that so many people wanted
Speaker 1: him to embrace for the last four or five years,
Speaker 1: and I think it's really hard. We all had good
Speaker 1: offensive seasons, you know, the three of us, But when
Speaker 1: you're a superstar and you're used to the ball going
Speaker 1: through you, I think it's really hard to make that
Speaker 1: adjustment to being a role player. It's just it's unnatural.
Speaker 1: And most of us had to deal with that at
Speaker 1: an earlier age, right either in college or earlier in
Speaker 1: our NBA career, and it became about fitting in and
Speaker 1: maximizing a role and carving out a niche for yourself
Speaker 1: in the league. But when you start out as the
Speaker 1: number one guy and then ten twelve years later they're like,
Speaker 1: we need you to dial it back a little bit,
Speaker 1: that's hard to do. And so you you've seen it
Speaker 1: this year. He's just completely embraced, like I'm gonna defend
Speaker 1: my ass off, I'm gonna grab every single rebound, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna set lacious screens. How strong and strong it would
Speaker 1: be a great teammate. He's been a great How strong
Speaker 1: is he? People don't understand. That's probably the strongest dude
Speaker 1: I ran across in my career. Unlike a switch Matt,
Speaker 1: It's it's impossible to box him out. Yeah, it's impossible.
Speaker 1: And he literally will toss people aside like a ragdoll. Intridiculous.
Speaker 1: I remember one time Quick in Toronto, I think me
Speaker 1: Vince Jamir and was shot. He was shooting ball from
Speaker 1: half court like it was nothing on it. He was
Speaker 1: sitting down and we all he was just doing something.
Speaker 1: We tried to jump and when I tell you, he
Speaker 1: threw all of us off like I throw the twins
Speaker 1: in Ashton off me. I was like, you know, this
Speaker 1: is crazy. This dude school to He's been built like Superman.
Speaker 1: Strong Jack had a family emergency he had to tend
Speaker 1: to j J. It's me and you for the rest
Speaker 1: of the way. Um let's pick off where we left off.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read some stuff to you, just kind of
Speaker 1: about your career up to going from Milwaukee to the Clippers.
Speaker 1: So two thousand nine NBA Finals lost to the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Two thousand ten loose to Boston in the Eastern Finals
Speaker 1: first round. Two thousand eleven, who had lost to Atlanta
Speaker 1: second round, excuse me. Two thousand twelve loose to Indiana thirteen,
Speaker 1: Orlando goes into a rebuilding mode. You get traded to Milwaukee.
Speaker 1: What was it like for the first time in your
Speaker 1: career being traded? It was an eye opening experience. I
Speaker 1: think every player when they get drafted, they think they're
Speaker 1: going to be in one place their whole career, but
Speaker 1: that that works out for like less than one percent
Speaker 1: of all players. There's the rare Nick Collison or Udonis
Speaker 1: has them of the world, but for the most part,
Speaker 1: even superstars move on. Lebron's played for you know, basically
Speaker 1: four four teams, so it's like it's really it was unrealistic.
Speaker 1: So I look back and I'm like, man, I was
Speaker 1: there seven years. That's a long time to be in
Speaker 1: one place. It's run. And when that rebuild first happened,
Speaker 1: like I was, it was hard for me because you know,
Speaker 1: I was so used to winning and so used to
Speaker 1: a certain way that that Stan had done things. And
Speaker 1: with the young coach, with jacque Von who by the way,
Speaker 1: let me play like it was the greatest thing that
Speaker 1: happened to me. Looking back, and and and a young
Speaker 1: team were you know, we weren't going anywhere. And but
Speaker 1: I had said to Rob Hennigan. I had said, like, look,
Speaker 1: I'm happy. I'm comfortable in Orlando. My wife's happy in Orlando.
Speaker 1: She you know, she grew up in Florida, her family
Speaker 1: lives here. So like, I'm cool being being you know,
Speaker 1: resigning and coming back for the rebuild. I was a
Speaker 1: little shocked that I got traded um and I knew
Speaker 1: that it was a possibility, but like there were multiple
Speaker 1: times where like my agent had been like, yo, you're
Speaker 1: good man. Deals off like this deals off, Like you're
Speaker 1: not You're not gonna get traded um And and so
Speaker 1: you know, it was a situation where we're in Dallas
Speaker 1: the day of the deadline. We're flying to Memphis, and
Speaker 1: we pull up to the airport, to the tarmac. Everybody
Speaker 1: starts getting off the bus and Jacques was like, hang back,
Speaker 1: and he was like me, gustavoy on Ish Smith, Josh
Speaker 1: mc roberts, and I think there was one other guy
Speaker 1: that was in a separate deal. So it's like five
Speaker 1: of us just hanging in the back. So I'm like
Speaker 1: trying to call my agent and he's like you, I think,
Speaker 1: I think maybe this Milwaukee thing is back on. And
Speaker 1: then Rob Hennigan called me at like two fifty nine.
Speaker 1: Deadline was at three pm. He called me like two nine.
Speaker 1: It was like, hey, man, you know, I just I
Speaker 1: just want to keep you the loop, you know, we
Speaker 1: we've traded in Milwaukee or whatever. And I was I was, truthfully,
Speaker 1: I was emotional, man, because you know, Jamir was up
Speaker 1: there on the playing and and and so many people,
Speaker 1: all the support staff, everybody I'd spent seven years with,
Speaker 1: Joe Rogowski and all these people that I'd spent seven
Speaker 1: years with, and it was a really it was. It
Speaker 1: was a tough day. But you know, I woke up
Speaker 1: the next day, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: the most of the Milwaukee situation. I had no idea
Speaker 1: what what I was walking into in that Milwaukee in
Speaker 1: that Milwaukee situation, but it all ended up working out because,
Speaker 1: you know, because of that trade, I I got a
Speaker 1: chance to really be a free agent, and um Doc
Speaker 1: ended up getting traded as well to to l A.
Speaker 1: And it was just a perfect, you know, confluence of
Speaker 1: events that allowed me to get to you know, at
Speaker 1: the time, just a perfect spot for me, Like it
Speaker 1: worked out perfectly. So after leaving Milwaukee, um you had
Speaker 1: to the Clippers. I get there a year before you.
Speaker 1: We have a very talented bunch. Dot comes in. You
Speaker 1: come in. You came in the same year as Doc, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: about two weeks after him. Right, So we have it
Speaker 1: to me. Now, this is another team that I felt
Speaker 1: had the talent to win a championship. UM. Several reasons
Speaker 1: why we didn't. But what was it like coming to
Speaker 1: l A. So seven years in with Orlando, which you
Speaker 1: felt like what could be home for the rest of
Speaker 1: your career? Out of the blue? Go to Milwaukee, which
Speaker 1: is tough place to go, and Nolwaukee it's not even
Speaker 1: close to the top five worst NBA cities, don't It's
Speaker 1: not who would you put in for let's talk about
Speaker 1: the trip. Who would you put what cities or worst
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee? I'm confused because they're to me, they're up there.
Speaker 1: I will put you on the spot like that. Anyway, Man,
Speaker 1: you land in l A. And, like you said, Doc
Speaker 1: was someone who empowered you as a player, like you
Speaker 1: were one of our key pieces. UM on the offensive end,
Speaker 1: what was it like being a part of obviously the
Speaker 1: Clipper franchise that hadn't had much success up to that,
Speaker 1: point in coming in establishing yourself as a go to
Speaker 1: guy for our team. No, it was amazing. It was
Speaker 1: It was like an amazing part of my career because
Speaker 1: I was in my prime athletically. I was still I
Speaker 1: was still able to move all the ways I wanted
Speaker 1: to move, and and you know I was, I was
Speaker 1: playing with other great players. And the thing that I
Speaker 1: think it's overlooked about our group in l A was
Speaker 1: just how smart everybody was. Like we we got to
Speaker 1: the point where we didn't really even ever call plays,
Speaker 1: like even set plays. It was all like hand signals.
Speaker 1: And I went to y'all would bullshit with me about
Speaker 1: different ways to call twenty one when we were called
Speaker 1: twenty one, and we'd call it, you know whatever, we
Speaker 1: call it Chester after Chester Author they on President. We
Speaker 1: call it Dion our prime Time after Dion Sanders. And
Speaker 1: then one time you all started calling it savage and
Speaker 1: I had no idea what you were talking about, and
Speaker 1: you were like, one savage, who the fund is twenty
Speaker 1: one savage? But no, And it was like so like
Speaker 1: the part about that, like the basketball was just great
Speaker 1: and off the court, you know, I had I had
Speaker 1: both my kids in l A. I grew up a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean I went from like a kid to a
Speaker 1: man in those four years, and it was it was
Speaker 1: the best. I mean, it was the best four years
Speaker 1: that I could have had. I looked back with that
Speaker 1: with you know, a ton of a ton of love,
Speaker 1: and my my regret, man, is like we should have won,
Speaker 1: like one of those first two years, my first two
Speaker 1: years there, like you know that your last two years there,
Speaker 1: we should have won. We should have won, like we
Speaker 1: we we should have won. There's no we were. I
Speaker 1: think we were probably as good as anyone in fourteen.
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance we could have beat Golden
Speaker 1: State in fifteen, you know, as good as they were,
Speaker 1: and they were young and coming up like they were
Speaker 1: kind of before the play. Yeah, we you know, we were.
Speaker 1: We saw them in our rear view. But we felt
Speaker 1: like that was our window still. We had maybe your
Speaker 1: two or three year window. We felt before it was
Speaker 1: Golden State's term because we knew Golden State was coming.
Speaker 1: We had a badly battled in seven games in the
Speaker 1: fourteen season, um, and we knew they were on our way.
Speaker 1: In your opinion, what was it, because, like you said,
Speaker 1: our chemistry on the court was incredible at times. Our
Speaker 1: chemistry off the court was even better, you know, the
Speaker 1: way we all hung out, Our wives hung out, our
Speaker 1: kids hung out, We did stuff as teammates off the court,
Speaker 1: like we really bonded as not only teammates but friends
Speaker 1: and brothers. But there was something in there that we
Speaker 1: couldn't get over that hump. In your opinion, what do
Speaker 1: you think it was? Well, I think there's a couple
Speaker 1: of things. And look, I've talked about this before, and
Speaker 1: I've used the word pettiness before, petty. You know, there
Speaker 1: was some pettiness between some of us, probably if you
Speaker 1: look back, and I've talked to enough of the guys now,
Speaker 1: like we've all matured even more since then, and we've
Speaker 1: we all sort of realize what we squandered by being
Speaker 1: immature and petty at times. Um. The other part of
Speaker 1: that is, you know, for whatever reason, I know you've
Speaker 1: said this before too, but the mental toughness, Um, we
Speaker 1: just we we would lose that at times. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't make it didn't It doesn't still make sense to
Speaker 1: me because I think the makeup of all our guys,
Speaker 1: like I think CPS a champion. I don't know if
Speaker 1: CP is gonna win an NBA championship. But in my
Speaker 1: in my mind, he's a fucking champion. He deserves a championship.
Speaker 1: He's that caliber player, he's that caliber of competitor. He's
Speaker 1: a champion um. And so you know, it's still looking back,
Speaker 1: it's like it's probably those two things where like you know,
Speaker 1: if you look at the Okay c series the first
Speaker 1: year where we're up eleven in Game five, I okay
Speaker 1: see and and we make some bone headed plays down
Speaker 1: the stretch and and don't really execute, and and we
Speaker 1: didn't bounce back from that. You know, we go back
Speaker 1: to Game six, we're up like nineteen the second quarter,
Speaker 1: and and and Kevin Durant goes on a run. We
Speaker 1: don't bounce back from that. Like you know, the next
Speaker 1: year when we're when we're in that free fall with Houston,
Speaker 1: it was just like you could you could feel it happening,
Speaker 1: you know. But for us to beat but for us
Speaker 1: to beat the defending champs, you know, I mean, we
Speaker 1: knocked San Antonio in the first round, like this is
Speaker 1: our year. I think Clipper fans had the same feeling
Speaker 1: that year as they had this year, Like Okay, well, ship,
Speaker 1: this is this is Clipper, this is the year that
Speaker 1: we're going to do it, you know. And I really
Speaker 1: felt like that. And we get up three one against
Speaker 1: Houston and not really looking ahead, but we know Golden
Speaker 1: State is waiting on us, and those have kind of
Speaker 1: been like I don't want to say little brothers because
Speaker 1: it was never that kind of situation, but they were
Speaker 1: on the rise and we were kind of the last
Speaker 1: team to knock them out of the playoffs. So we
Speaker 1: get to that situation, Houston sits James and they make
Speaker 1: a miraculous come back, and like I said, it was
Speaker 1: just a dominant effect after that that game. How many
Speaker 1: times have you thought about the fourth quarter of that game? Um,
Speaker 1: and just a different different plays that have that happened,
Speaker 1: Josh Smith hitting three threes and Corey Burr hitting a
Speaker 1: couple of threes and the other thing to think about that,
Speaker 1: And Blake and I talked about this one time. I
Speaker 1: remember that Game seven. I was so tired. I think
Speaker 1: we underestimate how much that San Antonio series took out
Speaker 1: of the physical and yeah, exactly, and we didn't have
Speaker 1: we weren't that deep. So like you look back at
Speaker 1: those box scores from the Houston series, and it's like
Speaker 1: thirty nine minutes, forty five minutes, forty two minutes. Our
Speaker 1: starters were playing heavy minutes. And I just remember that
Speaker 1: Game seven. I don't ever get tired, and I remember
Speaker 1: feeling just exhausted, exhausted coming out of time outs, coming
Speaker 1: walking back on the floor, and Blake said the same
Speaker 1: thing to me, Um, But I mean, look, there's no
Speaker 1: guarant I mean, look it was the Eastern Conference Center
Speaker 1: or Western Conference. Sent means there's no guarantee we beat
Speaker 1: Golden State, or there's no guarantee we beat Um. I
Speaker 1: guess it was Cleveland in the in the finals. But
Speaker 1: I certainly think those first two years that I was
Speaker 1: in l A like those were those were squandered opportunities.
Speaker 1: And I think we had the personnel. I think we
Speaker 1: had the right coaches, um to get it done, and
Speaker 1: it just didn't happen. Man, it just didn't happen. Were
Speaker 1: you surprised to see that the Clippers decided to go
Speaker 1: a different direction with Doctors recently? I was. I was
Speaker 1: in some ways, Matt, like I would have been. Really
Speaker 1: as much as much as you're you're like jealous of
Speaker 1: your your old team's success. At times, you know, you
Speaker 1: leave a team and there's this period where you're like, man,
Speaker 1: I really don't want that team to win. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want I don't want the Clippers
Speaker 1: to win. You know that this year for me and Philly,
Speaker 1: I was conflicted at times because I love I love
Speaker 1: Joe and Ben, and I love Tobias and I love Brett.
Speaker 1: But it was like, how do do I want them
Speaker 1: to win a championship without me? No, I'd be pissed.
Speaker 1: But I got to the point with l A where
Speaker 1: I'm like, yo, like Doc's the last person there from
Speaker 1: our group, and you know, I think it would have
Speaker 1: been really cool. And I know Clipper fans like Clipper
Speaker 1: fans need a championship, like they deserve a championship. They've
Speaker 1: been so much, And you know, I would have been
Speaker 1: really truth. I would have been really happen for Doc
Speaker 1: and for Steve had that happened. And you know, in
Speaker 1: many ways, it's it's look, it's it's a results space business.
Speaker 1: And you know, I thought they were going to at
Speaker 1: least give Doc one more year and uh and just
Speaker 1: you know, play next year with with p G and
Speaker 1: Kauaid and again coming back. Man, it's it's tough for him.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you know. I know, I've been on
Speaker 1: hoopsite the last two days. I know he's got he's
Speaker 1: got suitors and you know, getting somewhere and one option
Speaker 1: is your former team. What was it like? Because I
Speaker 1: love Philly, I think they I think through management they've
Speaker 1: taken steps back, starting when they went, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: decided to give to Bias with all due respect, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, pick to Bias over Jimmy. If that was
Speaker 1: the case, I don't know. Let go of you. To me,
Speaker 1: they had a lot of talent and surrounded you with
Speaker 1: some dead eye shooters and that's normally the recipe in
Speaker 1: the NBA to win a championship. What was it like
Speaker 1: playing with those two young stars? It was awesome because
Speaker 1: both of them are are so intelligent and competitive. You know,
Speaker 1: if you look back at how you were night tonight
Speaker 1: at twenty three, like they just those guys, to me,
Speaker 1: like bring it on a consistent basis and they're fun
Speaker 1: to be around. I've said this before, but the one
Speaker 1: consistent in Philly has been personnel in and out, Like
Speaker 1: they just have a ton of players that come through
Speaker 1: there and so I think and Joe Joe talked, Joel
Speaker 1: talked about this on my podcast, Like for him, he's
Speaker 1: played with I don't even know at this point, hundreds
Speaker 1: of teammates, you know how, it's just a it's a
Speaker 1: rotating cast. And so I think in the NBA, we
Speaker 1: we don't really value continuity as much as we should.
Speaker 1: There's no two man, you know, game like Stockton Malone
Speaker 1: that goes on for fifteen sixteen years, Like we just
Speaker 1: don't see that anymore. Um, I would love to see them.
Speaker 1: Those are two young guys, they're both all NBA players,
Speaker 1: Like I would love to see them figure out a
Speaker 1: way to bring in a coach that that can get
Speaker 1: the best out of them and to surround them with
Speaker 1: with great personnel. Can they win together? Can they win together?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like those two not bring me back? Man,
Speaker 1: they've sucked up? I agree, I completely agree. I agree
Speaker 1: one percent. And that's what people are like, Like, you're
Speaker 1: not a star, but you are a glue, consistent guy
Speaker 1: that knocks down shots, and you need that, especially with
Speaker 1: those type of with those two players, like you need
Speaker 1: someone that's going to give some spacing to the floor,
Speaker 1: someone that comes in and just does his job, not
Speaker 1: in night out. And that's why I say I blame
Speaker 1: a lot of that. It was that Elton Brand that
Speaker 1: took over as the GM, and he has been making
Speaker 1: these moves that have kind of been like, hold on, bro,
Speaker 1: you were a player. What do you Why are you
Speaker 1: trading away all your shooting? What are you doing? You're
Speaker 1: you're an inactive player. I'm an active player. So I
Speaker 1: you know, I think I would just say I think
Speaker 1: they they probably realized they needed a little more shooting.
Speaker 1: The thing with me and Philly though, Like it wasn't
Speaker 1: it wasn't just about the shooting, you know, it was
Speaker 1: a leadership. Have you look like that you need you
Speaker 1: need people in the locker room like you just need
Speaker 1: those guys and U and I'm I'm looking I'm friends
Speaker 1: Like I literally was texting with with with Ben and
Speaker 1: Joe the other day, so like that, there's so much
Speaker 1: of this is you know, we don't consider the relationship
Speaker 1: part of it as much as we should and we need.
Speaker 1: It's unfortunate, man, And I've said this before, you know,
Speaker 1: and talking about our days of the Clippers, like it
Speaker 1: changed after you left, you know, you left after two fifteen,
Speaker 1: Like our team. Our team wasn't the same, the chemistry
Speaker 1: wasn't the same, the locker room wasn't the same. And
Speaker 1: I know, look, I know you were older at the time,
Speaker 1: and you you got you got you know, some coin
Speaker 1: or whatever. So it's not like one thing or another.
Speaker 1: But it hurts to lose, like the vocal president, the leadership,
Speaker 1: your friend, like those things. Those things hurt in this business.
Speaker 1: And not enough people talk about that. Man, Like the
Speaker 1: makeup of a team on the court on paper, with
Speaker 1: this guy at this position, this guy, that's one thing.
Speaker 1: But the makeup of the team and how everybody you
Speaker 1: know coincides and works together, that's that's a whole another thing.
Speaker 1: And you've got to have the right personalities. Like you said,
Speaker 1: that's definitely not talked about enough in today's game. But
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, you signed a two year deal with
Speaker 1: a new with an up and coming, wanted to me
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting teams in the game. Um,
Speaker 1: you get a young obviously young zion fresh out of
Speaker 1: college and someone who I love, the guy that one
Speaker 1: most improved brandon Ingram and also get uh, you know
Speaker 1: Alonzo Ball, what has that experience been like, now you're
Speaker 1: the old man in the locker room. What is it?
Speaker 1: What's that obviously kind of looking not necessarily looking back
Speaker 1: at your career, but it goes by so fast. Now
Speaker 1: you're the voice of reason, You're the old man with
Speaker 1: all the ice on you. What has it been like
Speaker 1: in that locker room with that team? Man, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's been great to be honest with you, this year,
Speaker 1: other than COVID and the bubble, my my actual time
Speaker 1: in New Orleans was was one of the least stressful,
Speaker 1: at least drama filled teams I've ever been on. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just a bunch of good dudes, man, And when
Speaker 1: there's when they're good dudes already at one or twenty two,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like if if you get the right
Speaker 1: vets around them, you can really have an impact on
Speaker 1: their career. And look, that's that's what happened to me. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was very fortunate that I was in
Speaker 1: great locker rooms in Orlando and we had guys like
Speaker 1: key On Dueling and Richard Lewis and you like, we
Speaker 1: had we had Vince, like we had good We had
Speaker 1: good dudes. Man. So I think you think you think
Speaker 1: a lot about like your own legacy when you get
Speaker 1: towards the end of your career, and like what it means,
Speaker 1: and like how people are gonna remember you, And like
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope I was a good teammate. I truthfully,
Speaker 1: like I hope Nequiel Alexander Walkers, like, yo, that's my
Speaker 1: guy hoping fifteen years where he's you know, he's finishing
Speaker 1: up his career and he's doing the same thing to
Speaker 1: a twenty two year old. He can say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, j J took care of me when I
Speaker 1: was a rookie. And and those are the things that
Speaker 1: you really think about when you get older. Um. And
Speaker 1: I would say this to like man as a visiting player.
Speaker 1: You know, you go to New Orleans. You you go,
Speaker 1: you fly in, you stay at the rich You might
Speaker 1: walk like a block or two to dinner. You don't
Speaker 1: ever get to experience what New Orleans really is. New
Speaker 1: Orleans is a special place, man, It's one of It's
Speaker 1: one of the most amazing places I've ever been in
Speaker 1: this country. It's so unique. The people they are just
Speaker 1: insanely nice and insanely great. And I think that was
Speaker 1: eye opening to me. It was so because I didn't
Speaker 1: know what to expect, because again I had experienced one
Speaker 1: hotel and like two restaurants and the arena for thirteen years.
Speaker 1: That's it. And then you, oh, man, they got they
Speaker 1: got a jazz hall that's opened almost every night. You
Speaker 1: can go see a brass band play at a random
Speaker 1: dive bar on Monday. You know, Marty Gros My six
Speaker 1: year old is like still talking about Marty Grow. That
Speaker 1: was in February. Knox, what was your favorite thing about
Speaker 1: New Orleans? Marty Gras My best day, best day of
Speaker 1: my life, that best day of my life. Hopefully he
Speaker 1: didn't get to see some girls doing wild things for beats.
Speaker 1: There's hold On, there's the Bourbon street party, Grow, and
Speaker 1: then there's the family or Marty Grow. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You gotta you gotta school of me. I didn't know what.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what you're showing. Not somewhere town is like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a different part of New Orleans. That
Speaker 1: that what we're talking about with, you know Knox, who
Speaker 1: was not out in the streets. Man, Come on, he
Speaker 1: wasn't throwing beads. Uh drew Holiday one of the most
Speaker 1: underrated two way players in the game. Uh, talk to
Speaker 1: me a little bit about him, because he's someone that
Speaker 1: you just don't hear much of out but he's put
Speaker 1: together a very solid, solid and one of the most
Speaker 1: respected players in the game. Drew doesn't ask for or
Speaker 1: enjoy adulation and attention. He's totally cool, just flying under
Speaker 1: the radar. He and his family are just incredible people.
Speaker 1: His wife, Lauren is is a phenomenal woman. Um, they're
Speaker 1: they're just you know, his brothers, him, his parents, like
Speaker 1: they're just they're just leaders. There's just great people. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think my biggest my two biggest takeaways
Speaker 1: from my from my year in New Orleans was thank
Speaker 1: god I got to experience New Orleans and what a
Speaker 1: special place it was, And thank god I get to
Speaker 1: be friends with Drew Holiday because like, like you man,
Speaker 1: like he's somebody in ten years, fifteen years, whatever may be,
Speaker 1: like we're still gonna be friends. Manny. He is, He's
Speaker 1: just an incredible human. He's an incredible human, you know,
Speaker 1: on the court, like he does so much and he
Speaker 1: does so much well. And I've talked about this a
Speaker 1: ton on my podcast. I've talked about with the guests
Speaker 1: on my podcast, but seeing him guard the ball up close,
Speaker 1: one on one in person, there's no one that can
Speaker 1: do what he does. I don't know how he is
Speaker 1: able to just stay in front of people at the
Speaker 1: at the level that he can. And it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: like you want to put him on Dame Lillard. Great, great,
Speaker 1: and like matter like we'll switch from my your kitchen.
Speaker 1: He'll be like, nah, don't give me help, don't get
Speaker 1: like he wants that action, and um, yeah, he's just
Speaker 1: he's just great man. And like again, like another guy
Speaker 1: like we talked about, you know, having the right mix
Speaker 1: of guys in the locker room. Like he's just a
Speaker 1: special dude in the locker room. And he's he's he's
Speaker 1: just a great teammate. What do you see? Um, god
Speaker 1: willing Zion stays healthy? Um, is there a is there
Speaker 1: a limit you can put on him? Because I don't
Speaker 1: think we've ever seen anything like him. No, there's not,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's all NBA All Star Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: that's that's his ceiling. Like it's it's he. The thing
Speaker 1: with Zion is that he is naturally obviously athletic, but
Speaker 1: naturally skilled, and so when he learns sort of how
Speaker 1: to play the NBA game, and it's he's gonna adopt
Speaker 1: like he he doesn't naturally without even really putting the
Speaker 1: thought and the sort of the preparation that we all learned.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't do either when I was nineteens. Dude,
Speaker 1: this guy year five and year six, looking at right now,
Speaker 1: he's twenty he's twenty ten, and like you said, he's
Speaker 1: just playing enough raw instinct and ability and athleticism. It
Speaker 1: tastes a good four or five years until you understand
Speaker 1: the NBA game. So once he understands the NBA game,
Speaker 1: like I said, as long as he stays healthy. And
Speaker 1: I saw that this year with b I and Brandon,
Speaker 1: you know, uh to b I in his fourth year,
Speaker 1: Lonzo in his third year, and you could see that
Speaker 1: development like where they're thinking the game and where they're
Speaker 1: they're they're learning like, oh, this is where my advantages.
Speaker 1: I can get away with this almost every night and
Speaker 1: and let me keep going to that. And and so
Speaker 1: that's like to me, as much as we talk about
Speaker 1: skill development, that's where really great players, that's where the
Speaker 1: development happens is in thinking the game. And that's what
Speaker 1: makes one of our teammates. Chris so great, Like, that's
Speaker 1: why he can play at the level he can at
Speaker 1: thirty five is an undersized point guard. It's because he's
Speaker 1: so smart and he thinks the game. Old man in
Speaker 1: the three point podcast, Um, what has that experience been like?
Speaker 1: Because you started that, you started doing steps in the
Speaker 1: podcast game in two thousand fifteen, and I don't even
Speaker 1: know what a podcast was. I remember you interviewed me,
Speaker 1: I think right after I left the Clippers, and I
Speaker 1: just like, what what what is this? J J? It's
Speaker 1: a podcast? And like you've kind of say, you're almost
Speaker 1: a veteran in the game now obviously just stepping away
Speaker 1: and starting your own platform on the way. Congratulations, Like
Speaker 1: after a good run with The Ringer, what has that
Speaker 1: experience been like for you? It's been awesome? Man? Um,
Speaker 1: you know I I I started, uh, I guess like
Speaker 1: almost five years ago, you know, with with my first
Speaker 1: podcast with Yahoo, and did three years with The Ringer. Um.
Speaker 1: Obviously I left on good terms with the Ringer and
Speaker 1: with Bill. I was very transparent about what we were
Speaker 1: trying to do in terms of just owning the podcast
Speaker 1: and owning the I P and owning the platform. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, so much of what we're trying to do
Speaker 1: as players now is is just ownership, you know. It's
Speaker 1: it's about it's about owning what we do and um.
Speaker 1: And so it's been fun, but it's been it's been
Speaker 1: a lot of work. And we're we've been on a
Speaker 1: two episode streak now for over two months, like where
Speaker 1: we're doing two episodes a week, and you know, we're
Speaker 1: doing calls on on IP stuff, on trademarks, on merch
Speaker 1: you know, so your hands in on all that, all
Speaker 1: of it. Man and Tommy, Tommy my my co host
Speaker 1: and and my partner on this on this venture, uh
Speaker 1: is obviously on it with me. We're hopefully getting ready
Speaker 1: to hire someone to help us just with logistics or whatever.
Speaker 1: But it's fun, man, And like look, we we talk
Speaker 1: about like you know, being basketball players and and and
Speaker 1: and simultaneously like being content creators. Like we're I'm doing
Speaker 1: three hours of content a week, like I never thought
Speaker 1: I'd be in this situation. The thing with Old Man
Speaker 1: in the Three Are Are our new podcast. It's been amazing.
Speaker 1: It's just the guests that we've gotten and so much
Speaker 1: of what makes a podcast great, you've got to be
Speaker 1: a good host or whatever, but you need great guests.
Speaker 1: And I think because I'm like, I'm not traditional media,
Speaker 1: and this is how you you and Jack operate to
Speaker 1: like because y'all are not traditional media. Like Alan Iverson
Speaker 1: will come on your show, d Way will come on
Speaker 1: my show, Kevin Durant will come on my show. You know,
Speaker 1: left their walls down, left their guards down. We were
Speaker 1: you know, we're releasing an episode tomorrow with Mellow, So
Speaker 1: like these are these are people that, like guys don't
Speaker 1: necessarily get to hear from other than the post game
Speaker 1: quote or the stuff that they're putting out on their own,
Speaker 1: which is all you know, whatever. This is, This is
Speaker 1: like a real conversation, like we just have just now,
Speaker 1: and and that's I think what is the most enjoyable
Speaker 1: thing about podcasting for me is just a long form
Speaker 1: content you can really dive deep on stuff and uh
Speaker 1: and get a glimpse into into somebody's psyche, into their
Speaker 1: inner workings. Like it's it's just fascinating to me. I
Speaker 1: tell people, like, we've as athletes, we've been trained our
Speaker 1: whole life to give it all physically and obviously some
Speaker 1: mental comes with that. But I think my transition to
Speaker 1: my post career, having an opportunity to work with ESPN,
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to work with Showtime, and my heart,
Speaker 1: this mental exhaustion is a fucking monster, Like I'm finished
Speaker 1: after you know, I have to host a few podcasts
Speaker 1: or I have to do a bunch of stuff on ESPN,
Speaker 1: and it's a whole different kind of tire than On
Speaker 1: top of that, I still got to chase my kids around.
Speaker 1: You have to do the same thing, but it's different.
Speaker 1: And I have a whole new respect for this lay
Speaker 1: because I got to do it at the highest level
Speaker 1: and physically exhaust every think I had in my body
Speaker 1: as a professional athlete, and now transitioning into this media space,
Speaker 1: this mental were down in mental exhaustion is just different,
Speaker 1: and it's like it will literally put you to sleep,
Speaker 1: Like it's I'm there's some days I'm with you. There's
Speaker 1: some days I'm i'm I'm like, I'm like grasping for air.
Speaker 1: I'm like trying to come up out of the dirt
Speaker 1: just to get a breath, and and some of that too.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're a parent and you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're an active, involved day to day like I'm with
Speaker 1: my kids and we're doing stuff. I'm taking them to school,
Speaker 1: I'm picking up from school, and you're sort of managing that,
Speaker 1: and then you're managing, you know, for me as as
Speaker 1: as still an active player, Like you're managing that part
Speaker 1: of playing. And then you're also there's this mental factory
Speaker 1: that happens every day where you're like, all right, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't anticipate having to answer twenty emails every single
Speaker 1: day NonStop for the last two months. Like I didn't
Speaker 1: anticipate that three four conference calls a week, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't anticipate that. I thought I was just gonna all right,
Speaker 1: you know, just give me the gap, I'll do the interview.
Speaker 1: And so that part of it actually, as exhausting as
Speaker 1: it's been, has been super fun because you do feel
Speaker 1: like becauld you enjoy it, you still enjoy it in
Speaker 1: your living. You're learning, you're owning it, and you're building it,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's it's a total learning process, totally.
Speaker 1: I've never knew some of this stuff before, and so
Speaker 1: it's been it's been really awesome. How do you feel
Speaker 1: like this this side of obviously podcasting has kind of
Speaker 1: help you find your footing in your voice, because you
Speaker 1: know it's no secret you have maybe a couple of
Speaker 1: years left in the game until you feel like you
Speaker 1: want to step away, but find your voice post career.
Speaker 1: But then also find your voice in this social justice
Speaker 1: space because you've been very adamant and spoken very eloquently
Speaker 1: about things that are going on in this country. There's
Speaker 1: only so much that you can express in a coherent
Speaker 1: way on Twitter, um and so allowing are using the podcast.
Speaker 1: You know, even going back to two thousand sixteen, when
Speaker 1: I talked about uh, Colin Kaepernick, I had Williams he
Speaker 1: wrote on who was a longtime sports columnist for The
Speaker 1: New York Times who wrote the book The Forty Million
Speaker 1: Dollar Slave talking about professional athletes. Like talked about Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant leaving the Warriors, then said there was some a
Speaker 1: little bit of the visc or reaction was tinged in
Speaker 1: in some form of anger at a black person taking
Speaker 1: control and ownership of his career. Still stand by that today,
Speaker 1: Like I've used this platform, I think in a good
Speaker 1: way because I like my my podcast is not about
Speaker 1: silly jokes and ship like I'm gonna I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: dry and sarcastic and we'll probably have a laugh or two.
Speaker 1: But like, I want this to be something that you
Speaker 1: get something out of it. It provides some insight behind
Speaker 1: the curtain. And absolutely and when all this stuff started
Speaker 1: happening with whether it was COVID initially, you know, we
Speaker 1: were we talked a ton about COVID, We talked about
Speaker 1: some of the mandates and and being serious about that.
Speaker 1: Now we're on voting, you know it, so were you
Speaker 1: And so it gives you an opportunity to speak out
Speaker 1: and and and and talk in a coherent way where
Speaker 1: Twitter is just a bunch of people shouting at each
Speaker 1: other and it's it's not a real platform and it's
Speaker 1: just an echo chamber. Um. And so you know, I
Speaker 1: think too, it's like when we had Cuban on the podcast,
Speaker 1: like I asked them things that he's an independent, he
Speaker 1: has no party affiliation, and to get his perspective on things.
Speaker 1: It was it was great to hear. It was eye opening.
Speaker 1: I think. I think that's the thing with the podcast
Speaker 1: is you can constantly learn. Um. When we had Taylor
Speaker 1: Rooks on the podcast, she said a couple of things
Speaker 1: that were like I never heard that before. Great I'm
Speaker 1: believable in something. Uh yeah, so that's that's That's what
Speaker 1: I think I've enjoyed the most about it is just
Speaker 1: you know, as as basketball players, the best basketball players
Speaker 1: are are students of the game that they're constantly learning,
Speaker 1: and so as human beings, like, why would we not
Speaker 1: have the same responsibility, you know, we should be lifelong
Speaker 1: learners and and the podcast is a great platform to
Speaker 1: do that. Absolutely, top five shooters of all time? You
Speaker 1: can include yourself where you cannot include yourself Jeff Clay Ray, Reggie,
Speaker 1: Kyle Korver or where are you do you put yourself?
Speaker 1: And I don't even like talking about yourself? Where do
Speaker 1: you put your Are you top ten in your opinion? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you talk about efficiency and volume. I'm
Speaker 1: top ten, Yes, I'm top ten. I like that your
Speaker 1: dreams starting line up with players you've played with over
Speaker 1: your career. Tough. I'm gonna so all prime, like Prime,
Speaker 1: Chris p Prime, Prime, everybody, Okay, so Prime, Chris Paul Prime,
Speaker 1: Vince Carter, oh, Prime, Blake Griffin, Prime, Dwight h Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's tough. The Dwighter Joe arguments tough. Um. Then it's
Speaker 1: like because Chris is so good, I'll just throw Ben
Speaker 1: Simmons in there. Man. Honestly, I was gonna say Prime Charter,
Speaker 1: he do, but I'll throw Ben in there. So Ben,
Speaker 1: Chris Prime, Vince Prime, Blake Prime, Dwight and six man,
Speaker 1: no doubt. J. J. Reddick. We appreciate your time, man,
Speaker 1: Thank you, continued success, Give my best to your family.
Speaker 1: Good luck next season man. Looking forward to you guys
Speaker 1: making your your introduction to the playoffs with that young team.
Speaker 1: And uh, I'll catch up with you my man. Thanks guys,
Speaker 1: all right, all right, all right, good to see you.
Speaker 1: All right, that's a wrap all the smoke with our
Speaker 1: guest JJ Reddick. You can catch this on Showtime Basketball
Speaker 1: YouTube and My Heart see you guys next week. This
Speaker 1: is all a Smoke, a production of The Black Effect
Speaker 1: and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime