1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. Ahead of the two 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: hundred and fiftieth Anniversity United States, the Heritage Foundation has 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: launched a new website and interactive experience, the Heritage Guide 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: to Historic Sites. The website is historic Sites dot Heritage 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: dot org. They profile historic sites in the first thirteen colonies. 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: And I am really pleased to say that I help 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: with this project with a focus on Gettisberg here to 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: talk about the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. I am 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guest, Brendan Hafera. She is 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: the Assistant director and research fellow for the Simon Center 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: for American Studies at the Heritage Foundation. Brenda, welcome and 12 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me in this world. 13 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: It's a real pleasure to be here. 14 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Before we get into the Heritage Guide, I just have 15 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: to ask you, Remema, how did you get involved with 16 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: this and what's your background? 17 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: So my background is an American political thought. I got 18 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 2: to study primarily the American founding George Washington, James Madison, 19 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: with a fair dose of history, of course, because those 20 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: two things go hand in hand. So I studied the 21 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: American founding and that's my first and great love. As 22 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: I tell people. So it really came out of that 23 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: my personal experience of going to historic sites and like 24 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 2: a lot of people, seeing that sometimes things had gone awry. 25 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: I think this is an important project, and I should 26 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: mention that the Heritage Foundation is probably the pre eminent 27 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: conservative intellectual center in the United States, a remarkable institution 28 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: which I've been involved with almost from the very beginning. 29 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: It's totally appropriate that Heriage would tackle this project. Describe 30 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: for us the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. Sure. 31 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: So it's an online interactive map that's geared towards tourists specifically, 32 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: and most importantly parents and grandparents and teachers thinking about 33 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: leading class trips to historic sites across the country. So 34 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: the main web page is an interactive map that pinpoints 35 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: notable significant historic sites. We've just launched sites in the 36 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: thirteen original colonies. We'll be launching sites in every state 37 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: plus the District of Columbia in early twenty twenty six, 38 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: so people have time to plan your summer vacations and 39 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: figure out where you're going to go to commemorate America 40 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: to fifty this summer. So that's the main page, and 41 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 2: then each site as an individual page that offers book recommendations, 42 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: that explains why the site is significant, That gives people 43 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: a sense of what to expect. You know, what are 44 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: the main toures, what are the main exhibits there, So 45 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: you're kind of giving some help with navigating the site. 46 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: And then considerations for families, because it's really geared towards parents. 47 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: Parents with young children. You know, you might not consider 48 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: going to this exhibit, not because it's inaccurate, but because 49 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: it might not be age appropriate if you have young kids. 50 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: So drawing attention to that, and then also unfortunately the 51 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: ideological problems that are sometimes occurring of sites that teach 52 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: LGBTQ plus history and alerting parents and families to that content. 53 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: So that's the positive side of it, I would say. 54 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: And then there's the accountability piece that each site is 55 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: given a grade of historical accuracy a B or C 56 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: based on accuracy and comprehension, iological bias, and proportionality. So 57 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: the evaluations the individual site page also alert if there 58 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: are historical distortions going on at the sites. 59 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: I think that's particularly important because under Obama and Biden 60 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: there was a real effort to rewrite American history. If 61 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: you will take just a minute talk about the challenges 62 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: you faced in dealing with that. 63 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: Yes, so this big project was a bit of an 64 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: extension of other works. So in twenty twenty two I 65 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: released a report on Mount Vernon, Monticello, and Montpelier called 66 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, with Mount Vernon 67 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 2: being the good, Monticello being the bad, and Montpelier being 68 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: the ugly. So very sadly, today, if you go to 69 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: Montpelier there are no exhibits aimed at James Madison and 70 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: explaining his contributions and accomplishments to the American experiment. And 71 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: that's a problem. 72 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: I would say, well, I would the board of Montpelier 73 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: not be describing the person whose house it was. 74 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: So part of this story, I think is what's happened 75 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: in the country overall that you mentioned. Since twenty twenty two. 76 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: It's been described as the great awokening right of movements 77 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: towards critical race theory, towards DEI revisionist history, and sites 78 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: of museums have gotten swept up in that movement. And 79 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: then there's the individual story of what had happened at 80 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: sites like Montpelier and Montpelier invited associates of the Southern 81 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: Poverty Law Center in helping with the exhibits, and if 82 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: you look at the curriculum of the SPLC and the 83 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: exhibits at Montpelier, they're very similar. And then there was 84 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: a change in leadership where what was called the Montpailier 85 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: Descendants Committee argued that descendants of those who were enslaved 86 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: should have half the seats on the board. But if 87 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: you look at their guidelines, how they'd find descendants is 88 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: those who are genealogical descendants, but anyone who feels connected 89 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: to the institution, whether they know of a genealogical connection 90 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: or not. So it was really politically motivated, and they 91 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: put together the s rubric a few years back on 92 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: how to teach slavery engage with descendants at historic sites, 93 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: and they say things like it's not enough to discuss 94 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: the humanity and contributions of the enslaved, you also have 95 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: to unpack and interrogate white supremacy. So it's really the 96 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: shift of we're going to tell history the full story 97 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: to we're going to engage in political activism and use 98 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: museums and historic sites. 99 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: To do so. If a parent or grandparent taking their 100 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: children around, if they turn to heritage, do you sort 101 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: of help describe each of these in a way that 102 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: gets them back to the original American meaning. 103 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. So one of the advantages of this 104 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: guide is we have sent evaluators whose background matches the 105 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: particular site. So, for example, a poet reviewed Edgar Allan 106 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: Poe's house, and that's really lovely because it brings a 107 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: unique perspective, a really valuable perspective. But it also helps 108 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: with that accountability piece, because when you go to historic sites, 109 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: there are sometimes obvious distortions, like Montpelier puts forth that 110 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: the Constitution is a pro slavery document and you might 111 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: be aware of that, or other sites like Monticello claim 112 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: that all men are created equal meant white property owning men, 113 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: and so a casual visitor might say that's inaccurate and 114 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: be aware of it, But then they're the unknown unknowns, 115 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 2: right of No one can be an expert in all 116 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: areas of history, and you're going to this historic site 117 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: to learn, and you might not even be aware that 118 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: things are a muck. So, to give one example, at Montpelier, 119 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: in their Constitution exhibit, they point to the domestic and 120 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: Insurrection clause and say that's primarily about slaver volts, and 121 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 2: it certainly would have applied to slaver volts, but the 122 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: impetus for that was Shay's rebellion, right, because the founders 123 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: realized that the Articles of Confederation were too weak. They 124 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: didn't have those basic police powers, and that was something 125 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: they needed to include. So there's that historical context. And 126 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: then Montpelier also lists five slaver volts to try and 127 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: back up their thesis, and three of them happened after 128 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: the Constitution was written, so they're those sorts of distortions 129 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: were pointing out in the guide. 130 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: I should say along that line that the first real 131 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: use of the Insurration Act actually involved Western Pennsylvania whiskey distillers, 132 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with slavery, and was an effort 133 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: to challenge the authority of George Wallis Washington and the 134 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: federal government, and Washington as a result, I think, called 135 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: out thirteen thousand militia in order to convince them that 136 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: they had to back down, which they did at that point. 137 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: But it had nothing to do with slavery. 138 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 2: That's right. 139 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever considered taking everything you've 140 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: already learned and really producing a book that says, this 141 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: is what the woke left says, this is what historically happened. 142 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: I think that's part of what this project does. The 143 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: advantage of doing it online is it's easier to update, right. 144 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: There is a form at the bottom of each page 145 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: that allows people to indicate if a site has changed 146 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: since we were last there, so we can update it regularly. 147 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: We can keep up to date with things. They can 148 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: recommend another site that we should go to, or they 149 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: can voice disagreement. So that allows us to actually crowdsource 150 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: some of this work to the American public, which I 151 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: think is an advantage. 152 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: Part of what you mean by interactive is literally they 153 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: can interact with the Heritage Foundation. 154 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, as. 155 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: Well as interacting with the website. Yep. 156 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: That's a good point you can reach us. 157 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: One of the great breakthroughs of Heritage over the last 158 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: twenty five years is how much it's now a grassroots 159 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: organization not just an intellectual organization when you go through 160 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: this process. In your opinion, how much is the two 161 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the desclosure deependence, how much 162 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: will that increase public curiosity about American history? And about 163 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: how we became the country that we are. 164 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: Anniversaries are times to reflect and we all know the 165 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: state of civic education. Were aware of the statistics of 166 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: For example, three out of four members of gen Z 167 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 2: believe the founding Fathers could be more aptly described as 168 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: villains rather than heroes. So I think America two fifty 169 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: is a unique opportunity to rediscover the American story, to 170 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: rediscover our history, to revisit the principles that were dedicated 171 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: to Calvin Coolidge gave a superb speech on the occasion 172 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: of our one hundred and fiftieth anniversary, and he said 173 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: something to the effect of, you know, there's no progress 174 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: beyond the proposition that all men are created equal. If 175 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: anyone wants to deny the truth of that claim, they're 176 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: not going to proceed forward. They're going to proceed backward 177 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 2: historically to a time where there's no individual rights, no 178 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: consent of the people. And I think that's a tremendous point, 179 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: that these are eternal principles, that they're true, and they're 180 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: true for all men at all times at Abraham Lincoln 181 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: sets So returning to that history, I think is so 182 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: incredibly important for us as a people. 183 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: It's really vital in a free society for citizens to 184 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: have a sense of the core values that make up 185 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: their country, because in dictatorships it doesn't matter much because 186 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: the dictator doesn't care what you think. But in a 187 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: free society, having an informed citizenry is really really important 188 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: because ultimately, if you're going to have government of the people, 189 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: by the people, and for the people in Lincoln's formula, 190 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: the people had better be pretty knowledgeable because they're going 191 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: to have a dramatically bigger impact on their country's future 192 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: than they would if they were in a dictatorship. And 193 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: I think what you're doing in that sense is really important. 194 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: Do you hope to see families actually sort of take 195 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: this site and then use it to plan out a 196 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: summer trip and be able to go around from historic 197 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: site to historic site. 198 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: Yes, that's the goal. So right now we have about 199 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: forty five sites available on the website in those thirteen 200 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 2: original colonies. We're aiming to release the full map around 201 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: February of next year, so the timing is good so 202 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: families will be able to plan those summer vacations and 203 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: figure out where they're going to go to celebrate America 204 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: two fifty and there'll be about one hundred and thirty 205 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 2: five sites at that time. So this is a state 206 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 2: driven project, and that's particularly because you know, we believe 207 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: in federalism here at the Heritage Foundation. We believe that 208 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 2: there are a lot of sites, especially the local and 209 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: state sites, that are still doing a very good job 210 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: and stewarding our history well, and we want to recognize 211 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: those sites. And our hope is also that in doing 212 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 2: it this way, that there'll be at least one site 213 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: in every state. Families will be able to find one 214 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: that's within driving distance, right, because most families can't afford 215 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 2: airline tickets to come to DC and go to the Smithsonians. 216 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: And also there's real value and going to the places 217 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: where history really happened, right. I like the Smithsonians. They 218 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: bring together history that occurred elsewhere. But there's something about 219 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 2: going to Mount Vernon, right, there's only one Mount Vernon. 220 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: This is where Washington really lived, and you get a 221 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: sense of his character as you're walking through there and 222 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: you see the paintings of the Potomac for example, and 223 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: Washington really took up the Potomac River project, which was 224 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: having waterways and roads that connected the country because he 225 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: thought that was really important for national unity and to 226 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,479 Speaker 2: be able to converse and interact with your fellow citizens. 227 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: So these sites teach you things that you don't know. 228 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: They teach you things about the character of the American people. 229 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: Every time I'm there and I think about Washington literally 230 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: physically being them, and this was his home, this was 231 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: where he was a farmer. You can actually stand where 232 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: they stood, and I think it brings to life history 233 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: in a way that just reading in the book doesn't 234 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: have the same impact. 235 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: I completely agree there's something humbling about it. To be 236 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: in those locations. It helps give you a sense of 237 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 2: gratitude for the sacrifice of these men and women who 238 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: built this country. My personal experience, and this is again 239 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: why I think this project is so important. I remember 240 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: going to Gettysburg when I was a kid. Good things 241 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: come from Pennsylvania. I grew up in Pennsylvania and that 242 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: was our historic site that I went to. So thank 243 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: you for reviewing that. And I remembered seeing the cyclorama 244 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: and how cool that was, and my dad thought it 245 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: was the best thing in the world world, And he said, 246 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: you know, we have to come back, and we have 247 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: to spend six days here, so we can trace three 248 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: days of the battle from the Union side and three 249 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: days of the battle from the Confederate side. It explains 250 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 2: so much of how I am today. But it sticks 251 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: in your mind, right, Those things stick in your mind 252 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: as a child, and you remember that experience. 253 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: Gettisburg, I think is just in terms of learning, one 254 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: of the most amazing places to go and to see 255 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: how the battle unfolded. It's all physically right there. You 256 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: really can get pretty good sense of what happened on 257 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: those three days, which were in many ways decisive about 258 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: whether or not the Union would survive or whether we 259 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: would break into two different countries. To go to a 260 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: place like Gettysburg, to realize the sacrifices that people made, 261 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: their willingness to put their lives on the line for 262 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: an idea, for the idea of freedom, the idea that 263 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: our rights come from God. It's I think, an amazing experience, 264 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: and I think that the ability to go to the 265 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: heritage website then think about what you want to do 266 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,239 Speaker 1: this summer or some future summer, and where you want 267 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: to take your children or your friends to go and 268 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: experience history is a very important public service by the 269 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation, you are a key part of public education 270 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: in a different way than we mean by bureaucratic school 271 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: based education. How do you see that as part of 272 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation mission? 273 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: So I think that's such an important point. You know, 274 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: civic education doesn't just happen in the classroom, and sadly 275 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 2: these days happens in the classroom less and less so 276 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: historic sites. This is why they're so important. There are 277 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: places of public education where we go with our families 278 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: to learn the American story. And so this map as 279 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 2: a whole is telling the American story through place. It 280 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: includes things like Gettysburg, Antietam, the battlefields. It includes things 281 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: like Edgar Allan Poe's house and Mark Twain's house, these 282 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 2: notable figures, so literature and art. It includes the spirit 283 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 2: of American enterprise because they're the Right Brothers Memorial and 284 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: we carry that forward to the Challenger and that's part 285 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 2: of our DNA as Americans and what that says about us. 286 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: And I think that's incredibly important one for families because 287 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: it's a touch grass opportunity that is coming increasingly rare 288 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 2: that grandparents, parents and children can all do together and 289 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: those real world activities are very very important, and it's 290 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: important for the individual in that showing our children these 291 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: heroes of something to aspire to it motivates them, right 292 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: as opposed to always saying that you're a victim or 293 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: that this country is not good. And then it's important 294 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 2: for our civic component. Part of the reason these places 295 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: are a target is that transforming them is a way 296 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: to transform America. It's not simply that Madison's home is 297 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 2: about Madison and he deserves our gratitude. He was a 298 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: remarkable American who did a great deal. But his home 299 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: also stands for the Constitution, and that's part of why 300 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: it's so important and part of why it's a target. 301 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: I do think in that sense that there's been a 302 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: real effort on the left to undermine and deliberately distored 303 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: and weaken the whole sense of being American. Do you 304 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: have that same feeling. 305 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: I do, sadly, a certain segment I think it is. 306 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: I'm still hopeful that it's a very loud and active minority. 307 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 2: But I do believe that it's a deliberate effort. It's 308 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: not simply a lack of conscientiousness. 309 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: I don't think it's just a random effort to get 310 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: to a quote more accurate understanding. I think it's an 311 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: effort to replace the accurate understanding with a deliberately ideological 312 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: bias that would basically create a false history and profoundly 313 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: mislead us about how the world works. And that's why 314 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is fundamental to the survival 315 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: of free society. If we don't have some kind of 316 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: grounded truth, we can't function in the long run. And 317 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: I think what Heritage is trying to do is reassert 318 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: historic facts and historic truths at a time when there 319 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: has been an astonishingly large effort by our elites to 320 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: convince us about a false history and a false narrative 321 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: as a country. And that's why I think what you're 322 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: doing is historically very important. 323 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: I completely agree we can't let go of the truth 324 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: of equal human dignity. If we let go of that, 325 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: if we let go of natural law, I think we 326 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 2: fundamentally change who we are as a people. And I 327 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: think it's absolutely correct that this is a deliberate effort. 328 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 2: One example of this is the Andrew Mellon Foundation is 329 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: the largest donor to arts and humanities in the country, 330 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: and they've dedicated five hundred million dollars to transforming our 331 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: monuments landscape. And they say it's very much from a 332 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 2: postmodernist lens that we need to take down monuments because 333 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: there are no LGBTQ plus individuals in the list of 334 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: the top fifty people most often commemorated, So the top 335 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: two are Washington and Lincoln. And so what that would 336 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: involve is removing statues of Washington and Lincoln to replace 337 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: them with other people, which is not historically accurate at 338 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 2: a certain point, actually inclusivity and historical accuracy, but against 339 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 2: one another, and you have to make a choice of 340 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: we can't bend history to make it match inclusivity. That's 341 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: not accurate, right, Lincoln and Washington did great things for 342 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: this country, and so I think it is a movement. 343 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: And they say also in their guide, you know, we 344 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: have a history of a people as taking down monuments, 345 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: and the example they note is taking down the statue 346 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: of King George during the American Revolution. But I think 347 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: it's important to point out that was a regime change, right, 348 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: that meant a fun fundamentally different country. And I think 349 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 2: there are people that's what they're after, right, they want 350 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: to transform the country. 351 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: No. I think that's right. And that's why Heritage and 352 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: its effort to create a guide which allows people to 353 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: see accurate history, is directly engaged in the survival of 354 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: the United States as a country and as a culture 355 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: and as a set of values. And I think what 356 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: you're doing in that sense is amazing. Let me ask 357 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 1: you one last thing, which is, if you look back, say, 358 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: ten years from now, how will you know if the 359 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: Heritage Guide to Historic Sites has been a worthwhile and 360 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: effective project. 361 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: This is a very good question. I think my hope 362 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: is maybe to illustrate this. I have three different visions 363 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: in my mind of what could happen. So there's the 364 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 2: negative experience, which is parents take their children to Montpellier 365 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: and the only exhibit for kids is one on race 366 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 2: and Slavery. To teach children about race and slavery with books, 367 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 2: all of which were recommended by the Southern Poverty Law Center, 368 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: and one of those books encourages children to imagine themselves 369 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 2: not as the victim, but as the aggressor, whipping a 370 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 2: slave into a quote his flesh cried blood, with a 371 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: picture of a man hanging from a rope with his 372 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 2: back bloodied from whip marks, and that's the experience that 373 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: children have when they go to Montpelier, and it doesn't 374 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: inculcate gravititude, it doesn't inspire them, it doesn't make them 375 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: want to be strong and gracious individuals. That's one vision. 376 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: The other vision is a vision where those things are 377 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: simply lost. Our historic sites are gone and there's no 378 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 2: opportunity for families to go to them and learn. And 379 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 2: then there's the positive vision, right of being able to 380 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 2: go to Mount Vernon and learn about how Washington formed 381 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: an American national character, and being able to go to 382 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: Monticello and learn about how Jefferson gave expression to the 383 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: American mind, and how, in Lincoln's words, we owe all 384 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: honor to Jefferson for introducing into a merely revolutionary document 385 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 2: a principle applicable to all men and all times. And 386 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 2: then to go to Montbailier and learn how this Virginia 387 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 2: scholar was first and foremost an American patriot and he 388 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 2: became the father of the Constitution and made possible the 389 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 2: miracle of Philadelphia. That's what I want, and if we're 390 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: able to do that for America's children, for the next generation, 391 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 2: I will consider what or this guy to success. 392 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: Let me commend you because you have described a life 393 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: of moral purpose which all of us can be impressed 394 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: by and can aspire to. And I should remind everybody 395 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: everybody listening can go to historic Sites dot Heritage dot 396 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: org and see the remarkable work that Brenda has launched, 397 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: and can take their families and their friends and go 398 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: to these historic sites and know that they have an 399 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: introduction to them that is historically accurate, faithful to the 400 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: American culture, and an important contribution to an informed, educated patriotism. 401 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: And Brenda, I just want to thank you personally for 402 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: dedicating so much of your life to working to sustain 403 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: America and help pursue the truth so every American can 404 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: have a chance to learn what made a sense of 405 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: remarkable country. 406 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for being part of it. It would 407 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: not have been possible without evaluators like you who were 408 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 2: willing to go out and defend the principle and the 409 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: history and the country that we all love. 410 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Brenda Hafera. Newtsworld is produced 411 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: by Gingrish Sweet sixty in iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 412 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: Guarncie Sloane. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for 413 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to 414 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: the team at Gingrish sweet sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, 415 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate 416 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 417 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Join me on 418 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: substack at Gingrich three sixty dot net. I'm Newt Gingrich. 419 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.