WEBVTT - How Lobbying Works 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to Stuff you should know from house stuff Works 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:13.880 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:19.200 Clark and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant and Crickets. So weird. Yeah, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.560 we're doing this um ghost style. Yeah, So what happened 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.920 was and I didn't you explain to me? But I 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:28.920 don't know. Maybe my mind was elsewhere and I didn't 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.240 fully understand. But what happened is guest producer Noel got 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.440 the record, He put them mouse on the hamster wheel, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.760 got the computer running and left And now you're a 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.000 little freaked out. Well, it's this is out of close 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.279 to eight shows, this is literally the first time it's 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.280 ever just been you and me in a room. Yeah, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.319 isn't that crazy? Yeah? It really is, isn't it. It's 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.800 I feel like I don't know, I feel like there 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:58.800 with no one in here, even though no one ever 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.840 guides us that we should just I don't know that 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.640 we're gonna cut up and curse. And it's like when 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.560 the teacher has left the room, it feels like there's 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.560 a vast field, a portal to another dimension to my 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.320 right where Jerry usually said. So I had no idea 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.160 what that extra silent human three ft from this meant 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.200 I think now, this means that we've been put out 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.560 to pastor Wow, this is disconcerting. Alright, I feel like 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.319 you're gonna like knife me or something. I could right 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.640 now and no one whatever now until we published the episode. Nope, 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.920 no one would ever know. Wow. Man, that's gruesome. All right, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.240 this is just weird. Let's let's do it. Are you ready? Yeah? 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.679 Good choice. By the way, Yeah, I don't remember what 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.760 episode we picked this in. We were talking about something 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.920 and lobbying came up, where like, we should just do 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.360 one on lobbying. Well, here it is. Yeah, it's it's 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.840 I'm glad we're doing this because we'll clear up some misconceptions. Uh, 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:57.040 it's not always evil, just the time maybe more. Yeah, 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.200 um yeah, I remember when we said we were going 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:00.920 to do a lobbying one. We got a lot of 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.360 emails from lobbyists who were like, please, please, please, don't 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.000 just trash our profession like we ever would. Um, they're 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.120 they were like, lobbyings, actually, it can be a really 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.919 good thing, and sure, that's why. So we got a 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.880 lot of feedback before this thing even came out, which 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.320 hopefully will help us. Well, they're understandably a very defensive group. Yes, 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:26.880 everyone thinks it's just rotten and corrupt across all channels, 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:33.040 rotten to the core. Um. And the reason I and 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:37.320 just about everyone else walking the planet thinks that lobbyists 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.000 are rotten, it's because of some very high profile cases 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.400 like remember Jack Abramoff, who can forget what a and 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.880 I usually don't publicly trash people, but that guy was 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.520 a pile of garbage. You know, there's really no I 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.480 was trying to find some other way around it. It 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.760 was like, no, he was awful and just ripped people off, unabashedly, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.320 ripped off Indian tribe, bribed officials, bribe people, pocketed money. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.680 And he was a highly highly successful, obvious people he 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.680 was working for, he was He's not a good fellow, no, 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.720 but again, he was a successful lobbyist. He was at 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.399 the top of his field for many years actually, um. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.440 And it wasn't until two thousand and six when he 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.120 was convicted of I believe, like bribery and corruption and 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.519 all sorts of stuff, all kinds of stuff. Yeah, um, 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:29.919 And I ended up serving three three years. I think 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.200 he did three three years in the Pokey yeah, and 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.120 supposedly had to pay a lot of restitution and tax fines. Yeah, 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:37.960 but who knows how that stuff works out. No one 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.960 ever follows up to see, you know, we just say, oh, 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.320 he got a he's supposed to pay all these people back. 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.720 Sure it happened. Yeah, who knows. He probably found a 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.360 loophole to work on. He's probably working on a lawsuit 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.880 against us right this moment. Chuck, Oh, can you not 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:57.560 publicly call someone garbage? I think you can. Okay, can 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.760 we find out? Can we read this opening statement from 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.320 eighteen sixty nine, Yeah, because I think it makes a 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:08.520 pretty good point that Jack Abramoff wasn't the first despised lobbyist. No, 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.640 this is written by Emily Edson Briggs, who was a 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.520 Washington D c. Newspaper correspondent um at a time where 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:17.960 there weren't a lot of women doing that, which is 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:19.559 kind of cool. And I think she was the first 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.480 allowed into the congressional press room. Yeah, they said let her, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.480 and she'll never say anything bad because we gave her 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.039 this job, and she's like, he fell from my big 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:33.200 cookies plan. So she wrote a column talk called the 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.159 Dragons of the Lobby. So you probably know where this 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.760 is headed. And the opening line of the column said, 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.160 winding in and out through the long, devious basement passage, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.800 crawling through the corridors, trailing at slimy length from gallery 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.120 to committee room. At last it lies stretched at full 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.040 length on the floor of the Congress, this dazzling reptile, 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.640 this huge scaly serpent of the lobby. That could have 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.000 been our Halloween episode. You really could have. Maybe we 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.720 should gus see that up increas with a little bit 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.720 of sound effects. Yeah, that was in eighteen sixty nine. Yeah, 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.440 not very flattering. Um. And it was actually I think 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.839 it did come um at a time when lobbying and 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:17.560 lobbyists were really getting a chokehold on um on Congress, 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:22.520 on legislation, on sweetheart deals from the federal government. Um. 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.719 But lobbying goes further back than that, and lobbyists have 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.000 been despised even further back than that as a matter 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.800 of fact. Yeah, and it's uh again, it's something this 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.640 article makes. I thought, this is a really well written article. Actually, yeah, 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.680 this was the day US article and he did a 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.320 good job. Um. He points out that the knee drug 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.520 reaction for your average person might be to say just 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.039 make it all illegal, get rid of the lobby because 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.839 it's awful. But he makes a good point that it 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.159 is it is necessary. The First Amendment in our own 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.279 Constitution says the right of the people to petition the 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.960 government for a redress of grievances. Is that necessary and 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:07.560 constitutional and mandatory. Yeah, and that's what lobbyists do, is Uh. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:09.960 It's not always a huge corporation. A lot of times 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.080 they'll speak for the Girl Scouts or the Boy Scouts 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.599 or you know, all kinds of special interest groups, and 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.479 we all have them, so you me, everyone listening in 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.760 America has a constitutional right to go and petition Congress 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.280 to say, hey, guys, you guys aren't paying enough attention 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:31.680 to government waste, or NASA deserves way more funding than 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.360 you're giving it. Whatever, you can go do that. That's 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:40.280 lobbying technically, but unfortunately, almost from the beginning, UH, corporate 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.800 and big business special interest groups figured out a way 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.920 to basically exploit that to their to their own benefit. Yeah, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.440 and it's uh. Ruz also points out, and we'll get 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.200 to this later, uh, which is one of the big problems. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.839 It's necessary because Congress and their staff don't have time 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.279 to Uh, that's well again, we'll get to that later. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.159 I don't want to spoil it, but they don't have 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:08.720 time to go through the myriad request and and uh information, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.880 deluge of information that's necessary to make an educated decision, 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:18.520 and so much so that Senator John F. Kennedy in said, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:23.280 uh that we are in many cases expert technicians capable 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:28.400 of exact not we are, I'm sorry. Lobbyists are in 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.720 many cases, I'm sorry, are in many cases expert technicians 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.760 capable of examining complex and difficult subjects and a clear, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.800 understandable fashion. So that's the reason we need them in 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.720 many cases is to literally explain stuff too congress people 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.840 and staff strapped for time and resources. It should be said, though, 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.360 that um when Kennedy wrote that in the mid fifties, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.280 lobbying was not much of a thing. It had like 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.960 it was established, had been established for a couple hundred years. 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.560 People hated lobbyists. There were huge um lobbyists scandals in 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.760 the Gilded Age from the Civil War to the nineteenth century. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.680 But in the mid fifties, lobbying was not a huge thing. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.600 It wasn't so um. What he said, though, is accurate 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.320 and it's still is accurate today. If you are an 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:23.480 incoming congress person, Um, you make your name both to 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.800 your constituency and in your party by getting bills passed, 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.040 by coming up with bills and passing them. Right, look 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.000 at all the work I accomplished. And then if you 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.679 um get enough, you may end up on a nice committee, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.640 maybe even a committee chair, and then eventually a party leader. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.080 And all that is because you introduced legislation that was 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.320 favored and got passed. The thing is, you don't have 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.719 the time or the staff to research and write legislation, 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.600 so you have to you have to turn to lobbyists 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.800 lobbying groups and say, hey, you guys are literally experts 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.320 on this topic. I need your help, uh educate me, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.160 help me write this, and then um, we'll we'll be friends. 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.840 The problem is is there's not a there's not a 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:13.880 special interest group like you said, whether it's the Girl 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:19.080 Scouts or whether it's uh the Chamber of Commerce that 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.160 doesn't have a slamt that isn't going to try to 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:25.199 slamp that legislation in their favor. So that means that 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.200 the laws that are written in this country today are 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.120 the legislative equivalents of avertorials, you know, kind of thin 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.960 on actual content and really heavy on stuff that benefits 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.400 the corporations running the show. You know, who would make 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.760 good lobbyists? Who they're in this room right now? Oh 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:48.199 you think so? I was just thinking, like generally unbiased 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.120 research presented so someone can make a decision. Yeah, that's 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.400 kind of what we do, except we're not paid like 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:59.120 lobbyists just make a lot of dough. Uh. In fact, 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.600 and to thousand fourteen lobbyists and these are people that 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.360 are officially registered as lobbyists, which we'll get to. There 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.320 are a lot more people doing lobby esque work that 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.720 aren't officially registered, but official registered lobbyists. Uh, we're paid 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.000 out to three point two four billion dollars in two 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:22.520 thousand fourteen, and that is only divided among how many people? 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:29.199 Was it about ten thousand, six hundred people? What are 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.960 you kidding? That's how many registered lobbyists there were and 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:37.080 this year and that's but again just the registered one 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.480 from a high of about fourteen and change. And when 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.160 was that two thousand six or seven? And two two 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.480 thousand seven changes came along, and it's not because there 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.840 are fewer lobbyists there there that just gave rise to people, 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.040 or gave people the ability to be like, oh, I'm 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.720 not a lobbyists anymore. Because here's the thing. If you 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.000 are a registered lobbyist, you are subject to some very 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:04.160 strict i think old guidelines, legal guidelines, scrutiny of your 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.400 business practices, and there's a lot of stuff you can't do. 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:12.000 You just you're just completely outlawed from doing certain things. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.560 If if you can just skirt the definition of a lobbyist, 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.000 it's like open season. Man, it's the wild West on 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.840 Capitol Hill for you, and you can make as much 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.520 money as you possibly can while doing the same things 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.160 just not having to register as a lobbyist. All right, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.559 But that's a lot of teasing. This is the like. 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.800 But this is the current state of the American legislative process. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:39.200 Our legislators rely on special interest groups almost entirely to 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.760 tell them what they need to know from their slant 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.920 and then actually writing the legislation for them to go 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.200 take the Congress and be like, God, I got I'm 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:52.040 gonna make my name with this. All right. There's one 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.360 other thing too that we should say, and this is 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.280 a this is one reason why lobbying is so pernicious. Um, 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:04.960 lobbyists also as major fundraisers for the very politicians that 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.480 they're lobbying. Yeah, Like, I didn't give them money. I 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.040 just called a fundraiser that raised four and a half 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.120 million dollars at you know, three thousand dollars a plate. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.640 But hey, they they gave him the money. Right, they 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.319 don't know me anything. I'm just doing this because I'm 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.880 a patriotic citizen of the United States and I'll see 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.160 you Monday, and I like to overcharge for salmon. Yeah, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.520 isn't that crazy? So that's the current state, everybody. Let's 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.840 go back to the beginning, because lobbyists have been around 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.760 basically as long as America has. Yeah, let's take a 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.760 little break and then we'll we'll get to the tease 0:12:38.880 --> 0:13:00.439 stuff and start off with a little bit of history. Yeah, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.400 all right. Uh, there's some misconceptions about the history of 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.720 the word itself. Laure says that it was invented uh 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.520 in the Willard Hotel in Washington, d C. In that 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:18.600 lobby when uh Ulystas Grant would kick back and have 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.360 a drink like he so like to do, uh and 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.199 would get disgusted by what he called those damn lobbyists 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:31.160 that we're hanging out there, Yeah, asking him for stuff. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Yeah. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.680 And while that may have, um, that may have given 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.960 rise to the term popularity wise here, but you can 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.120 trace it back to England, uh in the sixteen forties, 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.600 when they talked about the lobby in the House of Commons, 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.320 where you could go right up to your representatives and 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.920 in your cute little wig and say, here's what I 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.400 think you should do, right, and here's some here's some 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.480 good old fashioned English pounds in your pocket. And I 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.000 mean that's always just gone with it, part and parcel. Yeah, 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.360 you know, if not outright bribery, at least favors or 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.960 quid pro quo or tip for tad or it's the 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.360 jackal and hide Beyonce tickets, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.440 first class or not first class. No one flies first class. 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.920 Talking about the lear jet, the true first class, the 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.360 private jet. Didn't they do away with first class? Announcesis 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.760 called business class because of class resentment in the United States. Yeah, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.640 and now they've well depends on the airline. There's all 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.320 sorts of new rules and special things. You can pay 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.400 for alright. So uh, in the United States, from the 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.200 very first session of Congress, there were lobbying efforts and 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:45.320 people treating congress. Uh. I'm gonna say congressmen for this one, 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.680 because this was in We're gonna say congress person for 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.880 later on. The women were at home brewing beer in 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.320 their households, but they were applying congressmen with treats and dinners. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.520 And that was a direct quote from Pennsylvania Senator William 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.160 maclay from the very first session of Congress. He was saying, Yeah, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:09.600 they're lobbyists here. They're basically trying to bribe people. They're 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.600 trying to install the terrifact of nine, which established um 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:19.720 Congress's ability to basically extract duties and taxes on goods 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.720 in the United States in order to support the government. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.560 Let's go out to dinner instead. And the New York 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.200 merchants were like, you don't want to do that. Let 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.320 me get you hammered three ways from Sunday. What are 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.000 you doing later? Yeah, I'll tell you what you're doing. 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.840 You're gonna finish. It. Can't get wrong in one sitting. Uh. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.200 Then apparently the Bank of the United States was one 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:45.920 of the first big corrupt organizations as far as literally 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.119 having politicians in their pocket paying the money. Yeah, like, um, 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.760 the United States used to have things like like an 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.920 actual centralized bank. And Andrew Jackson came along. It's like, 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.720 this thing is just way too corrupt. We need to 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.720 get it of it and put me on your money. Yeah, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.960 but the the scandals associated with it where things like, um, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.320 the National Bank had on its board as board members 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.880 who are being paid by the bank, sitting congressman who 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.000 were writing legislation in favor of the bank. Yeah, this 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:24.560 quote is the best. Massachusetts Senator Daniel Webster sent a 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.680 letter to the Bank of the United States that said this, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.680 among other things. Since I arrived here, I have had 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.360 an application to be concerned professionally against the bank, which 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.000 I've declined. Of course, although I believe my retainer has 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.600 not been renewed or refreshed as usual. Uh, if it 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.600 be wished that my relation to the bank should be continued, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.160 it may be well to send me the usual retainer. 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.520 In other words, I've noticed that you're not paying me. 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.800 Now people are telling me to write legislation against you. 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.280 I'm turning them down for now. You may want to 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.720 send that money again if you would like this, love Daniel. Yeah, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.119 like he flat out said, the bribes have sort of 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.320 dried up. I've noticed, so why don't you start sending 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:13.800 this again? Unbelievable history. So you talked about the Gilded 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.040 Age post Civil War, it's all the close of the 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.360 nineteenth century. We like to think that America's railroads were 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.159 built on grit and determination, but in fact it was 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:28.679 rife with insider deals and uh scandal, what was it 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.680 called the credit mobil your scandal? Yeah, I looked into 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:36.280 this a little bit. It's mind boggling. Basically, Um, Union 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.880 Pacific bogging. How overt it was, Yeah, you know. But 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.480 but even just like, it was not just crooked in 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.679 one way. It was crooked in a number of ways 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.080 that formed one big, huge, crooked thing that Congress was 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:53.040 involved in. The Union Pacific Railroad started a company that 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.920 served as the soul agent of building and managing the 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:02.960 Union Pacific Railroad. Okay, um, And then they issued stock 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:07.960 in this stuff, and they used the Credit Mobile Mobilier 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:14.520 and um, Union Pacific itself to basically over charge and 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:19.639 overpay one another so that the value of the stock 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.159 went through the roof Okay, so it's a stock massaging 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.480 scheme to begin with, like an insider deal with yourself 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.040 to raise the value artificially of your stock. Right. And 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.959 then they took these these shares in this company and 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.080 started handing them out to Congress at a discounted price. 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.040 It's all Congress did it was go sell them on 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.400 the market for their face value, which was again artificially inflated, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.680 and they made a bunch of cash. And they were 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.600 taking these as bribes for giving like um land grants 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.320 or breaking treaties with Native Americans so that the Union 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:56.800 Pacific Railroad could build their railroad across the Western States. Yeah, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.520 and this was they did this because, believe it or not, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.800 at the time, there wasn't a lot of private investors 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.920 ponying up money for this railroad because it was sort 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.800 of a new thing. And yeah, they didn't know although 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.600 it was a great idea, they didn't know. Like all investors, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:13.679 what they care about is getting their money back in 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.080 quick fashion, and they just didn't know if that was 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.080 going to be possible. And I mean, there's definitely something 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.119 to be said for the federal government to step in 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.200 and be like, look, we think that this is really 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.600 going to help things out. We really want to fund it, 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.120 But does it have to be totally fought with corruption 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:34.320 while that happens, you know, no is the answer. Not yet. Uh. 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.720 And then there was the famous Gilded Age lobby is 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:41.240 Sam Ward, who um, he basically invented the social lobby. 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.480 So while he wouldn't we'll get into direct lobby versus 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.600 social lobby, but social lobby is basically in Sam Ward's case, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.040 he was a great chef, and he was like, I'm 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.280 gonna throw these great parties. I'm gonna have great food 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.479 and fine wine. I'm gonna invite uh, special interest groups 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.639 and corporation heads and politicians and get him in the 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:02.679 same room. But we're not going to talk about that 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.159 stuff directly. We're just all gonna get hammered together and 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.840 have a great time, become friends. That was that was 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.280 his job, friends do things for one another. Right. Yeah, Well, 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.159 I don't think we ever even said what K Street was. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.960 By the way, K Street is literally K the letter 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.399 K Street where all just about every lobby in the 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.280 country has an office. So that explains that if people 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.680 are other ones, Yeah, you're right, but it's like saying, um, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.280 Madison Avenue when you refer to advertising or Wall Street. Yeah. Um, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.400 so lobbying just kind of after the guilded, Asia America 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.680 was sick to death of lobbying and lobbyists and didn't 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.679 want to have anything to do with it. Um. So 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:42.800 lobbying went. Didn't go away, but it fell to the 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.240 wayside a little bit. It was still a thing, um 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:48.359 throughout the twentieth century, it just kind of waxed. And 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.159 Wayne in the mid forties, I believe Congress was like, 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.320 we actually kind of need these guys, so let's set 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.840 up some rules for dealing with them. Um. Because at 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.040 this time already what John Kennedy was writing about was true. 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.480 You had a brain drain going on from Capitol Hill 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:09.080 to K Street where people would go and um, become 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.160 an aid to a senator or a congress person and 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.840 make contacts, get a little bit of experience, and then 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.560 after a couple of years they would move on over 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.760 to K Street to a lobbying firm, make anywhere between 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.200 five to ten times what they were as the congressional aid. 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.240 And um, K Street was sucking the talent away from Congress. 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:37.280 And so these congress people in the forties said, hey, um, 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.959 we need to work with these people because we need them, 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.480 so let's make up some rules. Even still, lobbying was 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.040 nothing like you would recognize it today. It wasn't until 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.920 the seventies and eighties when business did an about face 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.879 of dealing with the government. Up to that point, it 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.040 was like, government, stay, just stay out of our business. 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.600 That's the lobbying we want to do, is to keep 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.359 you off of our backs, keep you from regulating our stuff, 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.360 to stay out of our business. And then at some point, 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.280 and I'm not exactly sure who figured this out, but 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.159 some lobbyists convinced corporations like, hey, guys, you're doing this 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:15.280 all wrong. You guys could get mind boggling amounts of 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.840 money from the government in the form of subsidies or 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.600 great contracts or sweetheart deals just by using our services 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:28.080 and lobbying exploded and would just take comparatively a tiny 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.560 bit of that. Right, even though it's a ton of 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.639 money for individual lobbyists, it's nothing to these corporations, right exactly. 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:36.919 And I yeah, like the the Dave Ruse gave a 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.960 really great example of um Northrop Gumman Grumman in uh 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.199 in two thousand and twelve or something like that, I 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:47.120 believe under Mifflin. Yeah, they spent a hundred and seventies 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:52.680 six million dollars from from in fourteen years from twelve, 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:56.159 which that's nothing to them because in that time, in 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.960 two thousand and twelve itself, Northrop Grumman got a hundreds 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.520 have any six million dollar or or no, a hundred 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.960 and eighty nine million dollar contract for a cybersecurity system 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.560 for the d O D. So that that one contract 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:11.720 paid for fourteen years of lobbying expenses, right, Yeah, and 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.840 then they got a one point seven billion dollar contract 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:20.359 to build five drones and that's just Northrop Growman. Like, 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.800 you can't really pick on them. The reason why we 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.880 we called them out is because during twelve they were 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.439 the ninth biggest spender on lobbying, not just corporations but 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:35.879 industry as well. UM. General Electric was the the single 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.840 entity that spent the most. Yeah this um as far 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:41.960 as the corporation goes. Uh, there's a great website if 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.320 you want just good information and stats called open secrets 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:49.960 dot org. And this past year two thou fourteen, the 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.040 top ten spenders were the US Chamber of Commerce, which 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.320 is always number one by a long shot because they 0:23:56.359 --> 0:24:00.720 represent a lot of businesses. The nash On Association of 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.639 Realtors was number two, Blue Cross Blue Shield was number three. 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:10.119