1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: and welcome to the show. My name is Noel, and 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,319 Speaker 1: our compatriot Matt is actually on vacation but will be 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: returning soon. In the meantime they call being Ben. We 7 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: are joined with our super producer, Paul mission controlled decant. 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that 9 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know Today 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: is one of those the more you know kind of episodes. 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: It really, it really is on the surface, on the 12 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: on the non stick frictionalist surface. It may sound a 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: little bit mundane, but we have unco covered a tail 14 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: that UH is decades in the making and pretty disturbing. 15 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: The story starts in UH in the time of the 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: ancient Greeks. Really, if you think about it, yes, that's correct. 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: Back in the old days. For most of human history, 18 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: anybody who cooked something struggled to make cook wear that 19 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: wasn't a huge pain in the key star to clean. 20 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's no secret even today that certain food 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: stuffs can be pretty messy and leave difficult stains or 22 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: residue on pots or pants. Like for instance, have you 23 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: ever roasted something and then realized, you know, I have 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: to make this taste great, because I'm going to spend 25 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: some time afterwards just scrubbing the heck out of this. 26 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: That's what tinfoil is for, my man, It's not only 27 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: for hats. Right there, we go, that's well, yeah, tinfoil 28 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: is an excellent example of how we have evolved strategies 29 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: and technologies to combat this. You know, it's not even unfortunate, 30 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: it's just an inconvenient reality of cooking. I'm glad you 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: brought up the ancient mice, Snee and Greeks because they 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: were aware of this residue problem, and more than three 33 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, they appear to have invented a very 34 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: clever type of ceramic grittle that functioned kind of like 35 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: non stick cooking surfaces, but not through chemistry. It was 36 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: through texture and craftsmanship. Right yeah, how so, so here's 37 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: the deal. Uh, These grittles that they invented had a 38 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: smooth side and a side that was kind of porous, 39 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: covered with these tiny holes, and they were using it 40 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: to grill bread, and bread was probably placed on the 41 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: side with the holes because the dough would stick if 42 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: it was a completely flat surface, and they were doomed 43 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: to spend hours scrubbing away this bread residue. But if 44 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: they had the little pores, then it would kind of 45 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: vent a little bit and it would create a surface 46 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: bread was less likely to stick to. Yeah, right, it's 47 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: it's some pretty cool mcgivering there, and sadly it didn't 48 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: really catch on. The rest of the world was stuck 49 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: spending hours and hours scrubbing away on ordinary pots, pans, 50 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: and other cooking surfaces. So in your mind, conspiracy realist, 51 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: go ahead and queue the image of a scullery made 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: scraping out the bottom of a huge soup pot. That 53 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: was me last night. That was you last night. I 54 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: made some rice and rice if you let it go 55 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: a little too longer, you let it simmer a little 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: too long, and there becomes this like sticky, kind of 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: crusty layer on the bottom that you then have to 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: soak and and get it of. But the bottom, the 59 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: rice crust, tastes delicious, and the huge fan of it better. Yet, 60 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: let's cut past that image of a scullery made and 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: go to a despairing TV infomercial host. Let's imagine. Let's 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: imagine this scullery made at the beginning of an infomercial 63 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: if they had those in the Middle Ages throwing up 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: their hands and wailing. There's got to be a better way. 65 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: There has to be right. Here are the facts. This 66 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: situation began to change in nineteen thirty eight when a 67 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: chepists named Roy Plunkett invented something called poly tetrafluoroethylene or PTFE. 68 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: Ptf E is a type of thing, a genre of 69 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: thing known as per and polyfluoroalkal substances or pf A S. 70 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: Without going too far into the weeds on the chemistry here, 71 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: p f A S encompass an entire family of synthetic 72 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: chemicals that have one thing in common. They contain a 73 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: carbon and fluorine atom backbone. There are hundreds of these 74 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: things out there, hundreds of known p f A compounds, 75 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: and they have varying functional groups. They can include other 76 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: elements as well, such as oxygen, hydrogen, or sulfur. Today 77 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: we call the stuff that Roy discovered teflon. Roy accidentally 78 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: invented this substance, but he quickly realized at an number 79 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: of unique properties. First, it had high corrosion resistance, meaning 80 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: it's less likely to degrade to rust so on, which 81 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: is important because when you're repeatedly using this cookware, uh 82 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: and you're washing it, rust is likely to develop exactly, 83 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: very important that you have some kind of safeguard against it, 84 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: or else you're gonna have to keep switching out your 85 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: your pots. And this stuff also had the lowest coefficient 86 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: of friction of any substance that had ever been manufactured before. 87 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: Now why is this important? Band This is interesting to 88 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: me because it makes it slick, you know what I mean, 89 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: Things just tend not to stick to it. This this 90 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: is something that we associate with cooking today. But originally 91 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: it had a much different use. Yeah. Initially it was 92 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: used to strengthen seals that would be not seals like 93 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: but seals like you know, seals like like a jar. 94 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: To tighten strengthen these seals that would be specifically exposed 95 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: to uranium hexafluoride gas during the development of the A 96 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: bomb in World War two UM and interestingly enough, it 97 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: was considered a military secret, so teflon before it was 98 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: called teflon, the actual substance was top secret. It was 99 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: classified the US government. Uncle Sam and uh DuPont didn't 100 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: want the rest of the world to know about this technology. 101 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: DuPont actually didn't register the Teflon trademark until when they 102 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: began planning for commercial applications after the end of the war. 103 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: They said, you know, we we paid our dues helping 104 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 1: build the atom bomb, but that's kind of a niche market, 105 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: so we probably want to diversify. Yeah. Well, that's what 106 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: happens all the time with this government stuff. It starts 107 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: out for a very specific use, and then they realize, okay, 108 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: we can now let this out to the public and 109 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: make a little make a little cash, make a little scratch. Yeah, so, well, 110 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: scratch is probably a poor trace of words. Weren't talking teflon, 111 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: It's true. By nine one, DuPont had figured out uses 112 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: for teflon in large scale bread and cookie making. And 113 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: we say large scale bread and cookie making, what we 114 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: mean is the industrial level stuff, you know, not not 115 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: mom and pop shop big big bread. Yeah, big cookie, 116 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: big bread and big cookie exactly. But they initially avoided 117 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: marketing teflon in consumer cookwear because they were concerned internally 118 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: over a possible health risk. They didn't really publicize this. 119 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: They just said, let's not do it yet. The credit 120 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: for the teflon revolution belongs mostly to a guy named 121 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: John Gilbert. While John Gilbert was working at DuPont, he realized, hey, 122 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: teflon can be used to coat the average pot and pan, 123 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: And just one year later there was a French engineer 124 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: who was experimenting with using teflon to coat his fishing 125 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: gear because it was so frictionless that it reduced the 126 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: likelihood of the gear tangling up. Interesting, and that that's 127 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: all he thought about. But his wife said, hey, that 128 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: looks like it worked for fishing gear. Why don't we 129 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: coat our pots and pants in the same stuff. The 130 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: idea was a success. In nineteen fifty four, they were 131 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: granted a patent from the French government and they formed 132 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: a company called tef all T E f A l. 133 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty six. And so nowadays there are other 134 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: types of nonstick coding, but teflon remains the most well known. 135 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a household name and it has tons 136 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: of applications from coding cables to providing corrosion resistance to 137 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: industrial equipment. But the still most widely known um use 138 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: the public is aware of is that this is the 139 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: stuff that helps you keep from having to scrub your 140 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: pots and pants for hours at a time. There is 141 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: one small problem. Not only can this stuff be dangerous, 142 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: surprisingly so, but it turns out that the manufacturers of 143 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: teflon and related substances and the ingredients of teflon knew 144 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: about the dangers. They decided the profits outweighed the risk, 145 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: and they covered up these dangers four at the very 146 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: least decades. We'll be right back after a word from 147 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. So, writing for 148 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: The Intercept, journalist by the name of Sharon Learner exposed 149 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: DuPont's multidecade cover up of what she refers to as 150 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: quote the severe harms of health associated with a chemical 151 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: known as pfo A or C eight and associated compounds 152 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: which as PFOS and gen X. Wow, that's a serious name. Well, 153 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: there also used to be a pretty good comic series 154 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: might still be out called Generation X. Do you remember? 155 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: I don't? Okay, well check it out if you're a 156 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: Marvel fan. For a long long time, few people in 157 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: the public had ever heard of C eight. C eight 158 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: is one of the essential ingredients in teflon. This stuff 159 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: is everywhere. It's called a surficant because it reduces the 160 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: surface tension of water. It's a slippery, very stable compound, 161 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: and it was eventually used in hundreds of products. It's 162 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: in gortex, it's another waterproof clothing, it's coding for eyeglasses, 163 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: for tennis rackets, it's a stainproof coating for carpets and furniture, 164 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: firefighting foam, fast food rappers, microwave popcorn bags, bicycle lubricants, 165 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: satellite components, communication cables, ski wax, even pizza boxes, and 166 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: concerns about the safety of teflon. C eight and other 167 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: things were called long chain per fluorinated chemicals first came 168 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: to the public attention more than a decade ago. But 169 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: there's a long, often untold story about DuPont's involvement with 170 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: C eight, and until Sharon Learner investigated this in like 171 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: a nineteen part series that you can read for free online, 172 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: no one had really told this story. Over the past 173 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: fifteen years, lawyers have been waging an epic legal battle 174 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: against C A and its manufacturers. Are people who use 175 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: it in products, including DuPont and three M, which manufactures 176 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: some of the substances that DuPont buys to create teflon. 177 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: This stuff culminated in a class action lawsuit that was 178 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: it's about three thousand five personal injury claims that went 179 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: to trial in September of But before we get to that, 180 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: and before we get to the e p a s 181 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: involvement in Uncle Sam's involvement or collusion in this uh 182 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: in this sort of tail, let's look at the kind 183 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: of health effects this stuff can cause. It's pretty nasty. 184 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: Exposure to these long chain per fluorinated chemicals can cause 185 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: things like ultrative colitis, high cholesterol hypertension, thyroid disease, testicular cancer, 186 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: kidney cancer, and more. We know these aren't just rumors. Yeah, 187 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: and how come you don't hear that in the fine 188 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: print for non stick pan commercials? Right? You're just here, 189 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: don't use a metal spatula's right. And that's that's part 190 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: of the reason, because you know that teflon stuff can 191 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: flake off and into your body. In two thousand and 192 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: eleven two thousand twelve, after years of research, scientists published 193 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: more than three dozen peer reviewed articles on these effects, 194 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: and one of the most troubling parts of their findings 195 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: was that the chemicals had. They affected your entire body, 196 00:12:53,640 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: not just a particular organ or system. Even very low 197 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: exposure could impact a person's health. And this stuff builds 198 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: up in your body sort of like how, um, remember 199 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: when people concerned about eating too many specific types of 200 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: fish because of mercury. Of course, right, and that's that's 201 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: still a thing that should be concerning to people. This 202 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: stuff was the same way. It could build up in 203 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: your body, and it could build up in wildlife. But 204 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: this was also very old news, old beans to Depont 205 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: because their scientists had studied this chemical and related chemicals 206 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: for decades and decades, and they were very well informed 207 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: about the dangers. But instead of informing the public, instead 208 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: of informing government agencies like the e p A, instead 209 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: of informing communities living near the plants where teflon was manufactured, 210 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: instead of informing their own employees, they kept the finding 211 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: secret and they perpetrated up remarkably successful cover up. They 212 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: absolutely did. Um. Sadly, we can rate the cover up 213 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: success in one absolutely frightening statistic. Um, and is this 214 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: C eight is a man made compound, did not exist 215 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: one years ago, and now it is in the blood 216 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: of point seven percent of Americans, and this is from 217 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: a two thousand seven analysis of data from the c 218 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: d C C eight is present in newborns, breast milk, 219 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: and blood from umbilical cords. It's also in a wide 220 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: range of wildlife, including loggerheads, sea turtles, bottlenose dolphins, harbor seals, 221 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: polar bears, cariboo, Wallace's bald eagles, lions, tigers, an arctic birds. 222 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: Apparently not bears. Yeah, apparently. I'm sure a lot of 223 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: people were waiting to hear the bears. So you could say, 224 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: if you wanted to be a little more optimistic about it, 225 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: you could say, maybe there was something wrong with the 226 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: methodology of the test, Maybe the data was analyzed incorrectly. 227 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: Maybe the c d C for some reason is screwing up, 228 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: but we can assure you the odds of that are 229 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: pret be low. You could also be optimistic and say, well, hey, 230 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: I don't eat loggerhead, sea turtles, bottlenose dolphins, harbor seals, 231 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: polar bears, and so on. But this is still indicative 232 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: of a widespread problem because if it's if it's existing, 233 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: if it's found existing in those animals that are, you know, 234 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: maybe not even directly part of the human food chain, 235 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: then you can only imagine it likely exists in animals 236 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: that are part of the human food chain or more 237 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: commonly found in it. In their defense, DuPont no longer 238 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: uses C eight. But at this point, removing it from 239 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: Earth's environment is impossible because remember we mentioned that it's 240 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: a very chemically stable compound. As far as we know, 241 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: this stuff does not break down. This means that it 242 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: will be on the planet for a long time. It 243 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: may even outlast humanity, so millions, millions of years in 244 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: the future US. If some extraterrestrial civilization exists and for 245 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: some reason visits our planet, they may not find us, 246 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: but they will find traces of our of our time here, 247 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: and one of the things they will find will be 248 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: teflon in everything. Am I gonna die bend? I cook 249 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: with teflon pans all the time? Well, life is a 250 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: one way ridinal. Ok. That was a broad question. Is 251 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: taflon killing me softly? Uh? It does pose significant health risk. 252 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: And now that the public is more aware of this situation, 253 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: this epidemic, the government has started to take action and 254 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: private litigation has also escalated. We'll tell you a little 255 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: more about the current situation, as well as DuPont's internal battles. 256 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsor and we're back, eight 257 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: companies are responsible for C eight contamination in the US. 258 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: DuPont is far and away the leader here of these 259 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: eight companies in terms of both the use of C 260 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: A and emissions of it, but seven others were found 261 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: to have a role, including three M. Because three M, 262 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: as you said, actually manufactured C eight or produced it 263 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: and sold it to DuPont for years. While they were 264 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: also very likely aware of the dangers from the very beginning. 265 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: DuPont scientists approached cates potential dangers with a pretty high 266 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: bar of rigor, and they studied it closely. Way back 267 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four, there was a DuPont employee named R. A. 268 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: Dickinson who noted that he had received an inquiry regarding 269 00:17:55,359 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: C quote possible toxicity. Yeah, and then in one just 270 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: seven years later, in house researchers already had the short 271 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: answer to Dickinson's question, um C eight was indeed toxic 272 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: and should be quote handled with extreme care, like not 273 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: slathered on household goods. Right by the next year, what 274 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: do we say there? Sixty one by by nineteen sixty 275 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: two experiments had um whittled down these broad concerns into 276 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: some red flags, and they found some specific conditions caused 277 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: by C A. Exposure to SEE eight was linked to 278 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: the enlargement of rat testicles, adrenal glands, and kidneys. The 279 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: company even, at least in one instance that we know of, 280 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: the company even conducted human experimentation with C eight. In 281 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, scientists asked volunteers to smoke cigarettes laced 282 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: with C eight and they found that well, at least 283 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: they asked him to do it. Uh. They found that 284 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: nine out of ten people in the highest dost group 285 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: were noticeably significantly ill for an average of nine hours, 286 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: so as much as eighteen you know, uh, And they 287 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: have flu like symptoms that included chills, backache, fever, and coughing. 288 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: We don't know if they did a follow up study 289 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: years later to see the rates of cancer, but we 290 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: do know that this cover up then encompasses more than 291 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: just teflon, because remember, Teflon is a brand name for 292 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: something that is a type of p F A, and 293 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: p f A s are used in so many things. 294 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: We mentioned the microwave popcorn, the firefighting foam, fast food rappers, 295 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: industrial processes. They have been proven to have clear and 296 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: harmful effects on human beings and wildlife, and as we 297 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: record this episode, scientists, attorneys, and public interest groups are 298 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: still working to figure out the sheer scale of the contamination, 299 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: as well as the extent of danger this poses to 300 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: humans and wildlife. Like here's the example. The DuPont used 301 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: to get rid of these substances by putting them in 302 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: barrels and putting rocks, uh, putting rocks in the barrels, 303 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: or waiting the barrels somehow, and then just dropping them 304 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: in the ocean or dropping them in water sources. So 305 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: that means that there are, um there are areas of 306 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: the world where the groundwater has been contaminated with this stuff. 307 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: And we don't. When I say we, I don't just 308 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: mean DuPont or the US or anything. I mean our 309 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: species hasn't figured out how to get this stuff out. Yeah, 310 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: so even if that seems to be a kind of 311 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: a common issue, doesn't We were real good at putting 312 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: stuff in, haven't quite figared to have to put stuff out. 313 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: We're all Mickey Mouse. At the beginning of Fantasia, remember 314 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: when he figures out that excellent way to mop up 315 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: when he's the source of user prinice and he starts 316 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: making mops, but they make mops and then the flood begins, 317 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: you know. But I never that ever occurred to me. 318 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: That is a very good, uh analogy, metaphor what have 319 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: you for the exact kind of stuff we're talking about. 320 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: You can't put the magic back in the bucket, right exactly. 321 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: I actually went to a talk recently. It was it 322 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: was a weird pairing. It was Jaden Smith interviewing al 323 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: Gore about climate change, and something came up at the 324 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: end where Jaden asked al Gore, like, so, what technology 325 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: in the future is there to pull uh these emissions 326 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: out of the atmosphere. And the fact of the matter 327 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: is that there's something that sort of exists, but it 328 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: requires so much energy to do it that it makes 329 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: it not really cost effective or just practical at all. So, 330 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess people are thinking about this kind 331 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: of stuff, but it's like it usually is so much 332 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: more of a of a to do then just to 333 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: maybe do a better job of not putting the stuff 334 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: in there in the first place, right, right. And this 335 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: goes beyond This goes beyond politics. This is just a 336 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: health concern. And I know some of us in the 337 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: audience may may object to the alarmism that gets so commonly, 338 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, spread about in the public sphere when we 339 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: talk about these global or macro level human threats. But 340 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: the reality of the situation now, at least, and just 341 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: just my opinion, the reality of situation now is the following. 342 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: The Earth does not need humanity. Life Unearth in some 343 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: form will likely continue for a long long time. Human 344 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: life on Earth is not a sure thing, and you know, 345 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: it's it's not as if Earth itself really has an 346 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: opinion or cares. We are just one in a long 347 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: line of dominant species that have come and gone on 348 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: this little rock orbiting the Sun, and the third one 349 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: right right, And this means that the most significant race 350 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: or challenge for the human species now is going to 351 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: be technological innovation versus uh increasingly inhospitable natural environments. So 352 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: are we going to survive as a species, um you know, 353 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: off planet living in domes there? There are a lot 354 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: of optimistic futurists who would say, yet, like that poly 355 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: shore movie biodome, biodome wasn't a Baldwin into that. There 356 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: was definitely a Baldwin in that. I you know, that's 357 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: one of those films that I think I enjoyed when 358 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: I was a kid, and I think I'm just going 359 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: to leave it there. I don't know if I don't 360 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: know if I should rewatch it. I think not. I 361 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: don't know if it's aged well, I doubt that it has. 362 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: What was the other one, um, with the Caveman, Brenda 363 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: and Fraser. I don't know if I watched that one, No, 364 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: you shouldn't. You know what I did the other night, Um, 365 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: I watched Phantom Menace again for the first time in 366 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: a long time. That movie is problematic on many levels. 367 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: Let me tell you that one. That is a racial caricature, 368 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: but there's a bunch of other ones. There's like the 369 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: Trade Federation guys. We're kind of like these very cliche 370 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: almost like Asian caricatures, and there's just tons of them. 371 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: Not to mention the writing is quite hackneyed. It's yeah, 372 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 1: it's it's strange. I read this has nothing to do 373 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: with anything, certainly not the fate of the planet, but 374 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: uh have been a menace kind of had to do 375 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: with the fate of the planet a planet. Yeah, but 376 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: but there is a very interesting fan theory that initially 377 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: I dismissed. Uh and it argues that in the initial 378 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: stages of planning for Phantom Menace and the movies at 379 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: that would come after, George R. Binks was supposed to 380 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: be like a low key sith lord and then later 381 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: exposed as a sith Lord. It's again, it's a fan theory. 382 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: I haven't in anything that made that counted as smoking 383 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: gun level evidence. Was his evil sith power just to 384 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: like annoy you to death. Well, it's interesting because he 385 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: shows remarkable agility in some areas I don't. You'll have 386 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: you'll have to read. I'm sure it's available on Cracked 387 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: or one or the other one of the other popular 388 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: fan theory analysis sites. But back to the back to 389 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: the Tethlon Menace. For lack of a better term. In 390 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: February of this year of two thousand eighteen, three M 391 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: settled a lawsuit with Minnesota for eight hundred and fifty 392 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: million dollars in essence admitting, according to Shannon Learner, that 393 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: they acted with a deliberate disregard for the high risk 394 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: of injury to the citizens and wildlife. Of Minnesota, and 395 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: they they went for this settlement fifty million dollars. It's 396 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: not gonna it's not gonna put them in the poorhouse, 397 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: but it is a significant chunk of change. They went 398 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: for the settlement because the minnesoter To Attorney General's office 399 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: released a huge set of documents, internal studies by scientists 400 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: at three M memos, emails, and research reports. The detailed 401 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: what three m knew about the harmful potential of these 402 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: chemicals right now, Right now, there's probably already, at least 403 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: according to the CDC, some kind of p f A 404 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: in your in your system, in your body as you 405 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: hear this, unless what point three of the population. And 406 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: one of the one of the most widely acknowledged possible 407 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: dangers of teflon, and this was acknowledged publicly way before 408 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: the lawsuits began, is that if you have a teflon 409 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: pan and you overheat it to about six hundred degrees fahrenheit, 410 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: it will it could release toxic gases. But again that 411 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: didn't seem like too much of a concern because very 412 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: few people cook stuff at six hundred degrees. That's true. 413 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: Here's a question for you have to leave us with 414 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: what's the alternative is I you know, I have some 415 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: non non stick pans. They are a bit of a 416 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: pain in the butt when you cook certain things on them. 417 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: But typically when you're watching like cooking shows and like 418 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: chefs and stuff and high level cooks, they're not really 419 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: using non stick pans all the time. They're all they're 420 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: using like copper pans and like nicer stainless steel pans 421 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: right le Cruse exactly. So what's the what's the difference 422 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: and what and is it? Is it literally just a 423 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: matter of well you might have to pre soak them 424 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: a little longer, take better care of them. Yeah, there 425 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: are some manufacturers of non stick pans that are advertised 426 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: as non toxic. So one example would be something like Willing, 427 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: which is just the word Willing with a Z. They're 428 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: a German company that made that made their name, I 429 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: believe in knives, but they use a lot of They 430 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: also manufacture a lot of ceramic non stick cookwear. And 431 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: then there's a thing called green pan. They use some 432 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: thing called thermalon. It's a patented ceramic nonstick layer that's 433 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: made out of sand. Essentially, it doesn't have lead or 434 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: cadmium or p f A S or p f O 435 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: A or all the other stuff. And the problem with 436 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: that stuff is its heat resistant up to four and 437 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: fifty degrees celsius, meaning that it won't release toxic fumes 438 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: unless you heat it past that. You can find other alternatives, 439 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: several of them are higher end, so they're going to 440 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: be more of an investment. But for their part, DuPont 441 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: has um instituted some other other substances to replace C 442 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: eight because as we said, they no longer use that. 443 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: And the e p A has been involved, it says 444 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: it remains committed to evaluating PFOA and p fos under 445 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: the regulatory determination process using the best available science. As 446 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: part of their evaluation, they are going to be reviewing 447 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: all newly available scientific info uh and including the report 448 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: by the a t s DR, the Agency for Toxic 449 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: Substances and Disease Registry. They also said they are taking 450 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: steps to accelerate quote the determination process before the existing 451 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: statutory deadline, which is so in a few years this 452 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: stuff will change. But maybe the last thing we should 453 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: end on here is as of November, the e p 454 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: A also found that the chemicals manufacturers used to replace 455 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: these original toxic substances like C eight were themselves toxic, 456 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: so they replaced it with a different with a different 457 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: dangerous chemical. That's where we're at now. Cool is it 458 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: slightly lesser of the two evils? It's I believe it's 459 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: gen x is one of the ones that they said 460 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: was still dangerous. But hopefully yea, it is. It is 461 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: slightly lesser. And look, we're not saying that if you 462 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: you is a non stick pan, you are going to die. 463 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: We're saying that um exposure to the substances used to 464 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: make teflon are are quite dangerous and a lot of 465 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: the a lot of the lawsuits came about from former 466 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: DuPont employees or employees of the manufacturers of these substances, 467 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: or people living near the plants or disposal sites. So 468 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: it's not cooking with a non stick pan is not 469 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: the same thing as just huffing straight p F O 470 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: A S. So there's that, right, that's comforting. And if 471 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: you would like to read the full series on the Intercept, 472 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: I want to tell you that it is excellent. It 473 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: is very thorough. It's quite long. It's a long read, 474 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: but it's worth your time. If you would like to 475 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: learn more about how this successful cover up, this successful 476 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: corporate conspiracy to disguise the health risk of these substances 477 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: actually evolved and developed over time, as well as where 478 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: it is at currently. Thank you so much for checking 479 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: out our show. Let us know what you think is 480 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: this is this situation where in a large company just 481 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: wasn't aware of the science. Is this being exaggerated by 482 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: alarmistum interest groups or is there a real and genuine 483 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: threat and if so, why or why not? You can 484 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram. You can find us on Facebook. 485 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter. We especially like to 486 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: recommend Here's where it Gets Crazy, our community Facebook page 487 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: where you can hang out with your fellow conspiracy realist 488 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: and you know, see some funny means. We've been known 489 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,719 Speaker 1: to a lerk we have. Indeed, yes, so do all 490 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: those things. And if you don't want to do any 491 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: of those things, you don't have to. We just recommending it. 492 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: It's not required. You can also just send us a 493 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email where we are conspiracy at how 494 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.