Speaker 1: Hi, It's Nancy Glass. I want to introduce you to
Speaker 1: an award winning filmmaker and executive producer, John Hirsch. He
Speaker 1: has created documentaries that have aired on CNN. He did Pope,
Speaker 1: he did Lincoln, he did Jefferson on History, he did
Speaker 1: Betrayal on Hulu, and he is executive producer with me
Speaker 1: A Burden of Guilt and that's why you're here.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is. It is so thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: You and I we put together the documentary for A
Speaker 1: Burden of Guilt on Paramount Plus. What did you think
Speaker 1: when I first told you that we were going to
Speaker 1: do audio documentary and a video documentary on a woman
Speaker 1: who was accused of murdering her baby brother.
Speaker 2: Well, I will never forget when you called me to
Speaker 2: tell me about this story. You sent me a text actually,
Speaker 2: and he said, you got a minute. I got an
Speaker 2: incredible story to share, And so I called you a
Speaker 2: couple minutes later and he said, Johnny's sitting down. I've
Speaker 2: found a story that I think is one of the
Speaker 2: best I've ever come across. And you know you and
Speaker 2: I have worked together long enough, and you know how
Speaker 2: much I trust your instincts when it comes to story,
Speaker 2: and I said, all right, lay it on me. What
Speaker 2: do you got. And you know, at this point, we've
Speaker 2: worked on serial killer documentaries and cold cases, and you know,
Speaker 2: we've seen a lot, we've heard a lot. It's hard
Speaker 2: to be shocked anymore. And Nancy, you started telling me
Speaker 2: about the story and telling me about Tracy Urkel's journey
Speaker 2: from what she knew growing up, about her baby brother,
Speaker 2: you know, passing away, and sort of the questions that existed.
Speaker 2: And then you started hitting me with one thing after
Speaker 2: the next, after the next, after the next, and I
Speaker 2: was like, this can't be true, because no true crime
Speaker 2: story reads or sounds the way this one does, which
Speaker 2: sounded almost like a scripted movie, like you couldn't make
Speaker 2: up these twists and turns, and I so it's really
Speaker 2: taken aback. I almost didn't believe the story at first.
Speaker 2: And I think the part of it that I couldn't
Speaker 2: get over was having worked on so many cases that
Speaker 2: had gone cold that you had a little spark that
Speaker 2: got an investigation restarted. Never had I seen one where
Speaker 2: it was over two decades had passed since law enforcement
Speaker 2: had made a determination about what happened, and in that case,
Speaker 2: actually getting not only reopened but solved. I mean, that
Speaker 2: just doesn't happen. It's such an incredible amount of time
Speaker 2: to pass, and so many things can happen, and the
Speaker 2: way in which this case gets reopened and then solved
Speaker 2: is just remarkable.
Speaker 1: It is remarkable. And I have to tell you my
Speaker 1: only I guess hesitation was the way I personally feel
Speaker 1: about Tracy Rouquel, because I don't get involved that way,
Speaker 1: but I care so much for her as a person.
Speaker 1: I admire her so much. I mean, here's somebody who
Speaker 1: grows up and as is horrible. I mean some of
Speaker 1: the stories we weren't even allowed to use about this horrible,
Speaker 1: horrible childhood, and she grows up and really becomes a hero.
Speaker 1: You know. She solves her baby brother's murder, she gets
Speaker 1: the murderer convicted, She becomes an incredible mother. She cares
Speaker 1: so much about people. She is one of the strongest
Speaker 1: people I've ever known.
Speaker 2: When I first met her, when you and I went
Speaker 2: out to Colorado that first time to meet her in person,
Speaker 2: I was taken aback right away by her warmth. She's
Speaker 2: incredibly warm and genuine to everybody that she meets, whether
Speaker 2: it was you know, us coming to meet her to
Speaker 2: talk about potentially telling her story, or just the waiter
Speaker 2: who was telling us the specials that night when we
Speaker 2: all went out to dinner. She just has a kindness
Speaker 2: about her that it's endearing, but it's also a little
Speaker 2: surprising when you start to know about some of the
Speaker 2: incredible hardship. It's true that she's been through. It's amazing,
Speaker 2: and it's ever to see.
Speaker 1: It that way though. That's the whole thing. You know.
Speaker 1: She talked about being an opening of a center for
Speaker 1: abused women or children, and they were calling her a victim,
Speaker 1: and she thought, oh my god, I'm not a victim.
Speaker 1: She didn't even think of it that way, thought herself,
Speaker 1: not a victim.
Speaker 2: A crusader, is what she Yes, yeah, absolutely, this case
Speaker 2: was dead in the water. I mean, law enforcement had
Speaker 2: made a determination the day that Matthew tragically passed away
Speaker 2: that you know, unfortunately, could have buried this crime forever.
Speaker 2: And Tracy's the reason this case got looked into again.
Speaker 2: It's the reason the case got reopened. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to share too many spoilers,
Speaker 2: but the efforts that she put in that triggered the
Speaker 2: reopening of this case are unprecedented. I've never seen it
Speaker 2: from a private citizen to do what they did twenty
Speaker 2: five years after a crime took place, to spark this
Speaker 2: kind of you know, reinterest and then actually getting the
Speaker 2: case reopened is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And she also risked her life, she was threatened. I
Speaker 1: really admire her for it. I am, you know, so
Speaker 1: proud to call her my friend.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. That's as important to me as you know a
Speaker 2: lot of people tuning in. I mean, this relationship is
Speaker 2: one that you know, means a lot to us right now,
Speaker 2: and it's going to mean a lot to us ten
Speaker 2: years from now.
Speaker 1: So John as the executive producer of Burden of Guilt,
Speaker 1: which you can see on Paramount Plus starting February fourth,
Speaker 1: what is it that people will see on the documentary
Speaker 1: that they didn't hear in the podcast. Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, the biggest thing is an interview with the murderer himself.
Speaker 2: You're going to hear it from him, his version of
Speaker 2: what happened that day and the aftermath, and it is
Speaker 2: pretty wild and not often that you when the dust
Speaker 2: settles on a story that's just as extreme as this
Speaker 2: one is, and a documentary that is as heartfelt is
Speaker 2: this one is you don't often get to hear that
Speaker 2: side from the murder's out himself, and that that is
Speaker 2: something I think viewers are really going to be interested
Speaker 2: in and surprise by.
Speaker 1: We actually had to put up a warning on the
Speaker 1: screen saying this man looks very different from the way
Speaker 1: he looked in his youth, and I didn't even want
Speaker 1: to do that because I think he looks like the
Speaker 1: person he is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I thought that was
Speaker 2: a tricky situation, and I look at it this way.
Speaker 2: You know, having worked in prisons on prison shows and
Speaker 2: being around people who are living that life. Prison is
Speaker 2: a really really tough place, right and it'll aid you quickly,
Speaker 2: But it's an even tougher place when you murdered a
Speaker 2: kid and it shows on his face and in his body.
Speaker 2: What the toll of decades behind bars for doing what
Speaker 2: he did.
Speaker 1: I agree. I also think that we've heard from all
Speaker 1: these people, but seeing them makes a difference. We all
Speaker 1: imagine what these people look like, but I think you'll
Speaker 1: be impressed when you see what Terracy ur Kell looks like.
Speaker 1: When you see the prosecutors, you hear how they've reacted
Speaker 1: to things, and it's very moving.
Speaker 2: Look, it is a three part documentary that I know
Speaker 2: you and I are both incredibly proud of. I think
Speaker 2: we've done the story justice. But it is a story
Speaker 2: that is hard to believe at times, with the twists
Speaker 2: and turns and the things that happen. You know, after
Speaker 2: the truth comes out and you get into the legal
Speaker 2: process of the trial and the trials in this case,
Speaker 2: you see the ways in which, you know, our legal
Speaker 2: system kind of can converge with facts of a case
Speaker 2: and feelings towards a case, and the little nuances of
Speaker 2: the rules of law and how those end up inflating
Speaker 2: this case. Tracy or Kell doesn't just fight to clear
Speaker 2: her name and find out who actually committed the murder,
Speaker 2: but she's also up against a justice system that, twenty
Speaker 2: five plus years later, you know, is set up in
Speaker 2: a way that makes it really, really difficult to navigate.
Speaker 2: And she navigates it, I don't want to say flawlessly,
Speaker 2: because she doesn't, and it makes it even more dramatic
Speaker 2: on the back end to finally get to that conclusion
Speaker 2: after all the twists and turns and this saga that
Speaker 2: we're on. It's so incredibly satisfying when you get to
Speaker 2: the end, because you're rooting so hard for Tracy Raqual
Speaker 2: that when you finally get to the end, it's like, Ah,
Speaker 2: she did it, we did it. And I really hope
Speaker 2: the audience, you know, feels that way as well, and
Speaker 2: I'm confident they will.
Speaker 1: So I hope that people will watch Burden of Guilt,
Speaker 1: and I hope they walk away from it feeling like
Speaker 1: there is justice in this world.
Speaker 2: I hope so too.
Speaker 1: Burden of Guilt premiere is February fourth on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 1: I hope you'll tune in and watch