WEBVTT - The List

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<v Speaker 1>Oh. This is a story about land and oil, about family,

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<v Speaker 1>about wealth, about the stories we passed down and the

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<v Speaker 1>stories we don't. It's about a Native American reservation and

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<v Speaker 1>the people who own the land today. This story took

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<v Speaker 1>me to northern Oklahoma, to os Age County on the

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<v Speaker 1>border with Kansas, one and a half million acres covered

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<v Speaker 1>in blue stem grass with pools of oil below the ground,

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<v Speaker 1>and that oil a century ago it brought tremendous wealth

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<v Speaker 1>to some of the people who lived here, at least

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<v Speaker 1>for a while. Hello, this is Tara Dameron. She's a

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<v Speaker 1>citizen of the os Age Nation. Tears in charge of

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<v Speaker 1>an oth Age history center called the White Hair Memorial

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<v Speaker 1>outside of a small town called Hominy. The building is

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<v Speaker 1>an old house shrouded by trees, tucked away from the

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<v Speaker 1>miles and miles of blue stem grass you see from

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<v Speaker 1>the highway. And I'm here because I wanted Tear to

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<v Speaker 1>tell me what she remembers from June of two thousand nine.

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<v Speaker 1>It is hot. I just remember just having to, let

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<v Speaker 1>you know, get myself prepared for the heat. And June

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<v Speaker 1>for o s Ages is a really busy month. That's

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<v Speaker 1>when we have our Ilanshka our ceremonies, and it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like a reunion because you know, you get to

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<v Speaker 1>see a lot of your family members, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people will come home for that and

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<v Speaker 1>come back to that and make a point to be there.

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<v Speaker 1>Tara has been going to the June ceremonies, the big

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<v Speaker 1>meals and traditional dances since she was a kid. But

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to know what she remembered about one specific

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<v Speaker 1>day from that month, June. It was a Thursday. It

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<v Speaker 1>was the start of the Homedy dances. You know, everybody's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of keyed up and excited. Everybody was talking about

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<v Speaker 1>the list and his names were on it the list.

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<v Speaker 1>This is why I wanted to talk to Tara. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a reporter. I'd gotten a tip about one of the

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<v Speaker 1>names on that list. She mentioned the name of a

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<v Speaker 1>prominent family you might have heard of. We'll get to that,

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<v Speaker 1>but first you should know that this list, when it

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<v Speaker 1>came out, it was a big deal. Tara had been

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<v Speaker 1>hearing about it all day at lunch her parents house

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<v Speaker 1>earlier while her dad read the paper. The first time

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<v Speaker 1>she heard was from her uncle, Charles Pratt. He called

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<v Speaker 1>her that morning. Excited, baby was his term of affection

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<v Speaker 1>and he's like maybe the list came out, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>like what, But he was like a little kid. Charles

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<v Speaker 1>was in the middle of a lawsuit, and his lawsuit

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<v Speaker 1>is the reason this list became public. Charles and his

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<v Speaker 1>co plaintiffs were suing the United States government over how

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<v Speaker 1>it is managing something called the O Sage Mineral Estate.

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<v Speaker 1>The mineral of state dates back more than a hundred years.

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<v Speaker 1>The US had been breaking up Native reservations, trying to

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<v Speaker 1>privatize the land and take it out of the control

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<v Speaker 1>of tribal nations. But when it came to the O

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<v Speaker 1>s Age Reservation, everything underground, the mineral rights the oil,

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<v Speaker 1>the O s Age Nation fought to hold onto it,

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<v Speaker 1>and they succeeded. Congress passed a law in nineteen o six,

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<v Speaker 1>and the mineral rights to the reservation were put into

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<v Speaker 1>one big pot that was divided into shares like a corporation.

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<v Speaker 1>The shareholders were two thousand, two hundred nine citizens. Each

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<v Speaker 1>share would come to be called a head right, and

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<v Speaker 1>everyone who had a head right was entitled to some

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<v Speaker 1>of the money from oil and gas drilling in the area.

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<v Speaker 1>It's money from the mineral estate set aside for the

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<v Speaker 1>O s Age Indians that our leaders set up to

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<v Speaker 1>help us provide a financial foundation. The government paid out

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<v Speaker 1>royalties to head right holders each quarter. Over the years,

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<v Speaker 1>most shares have been divided into smaller and smaller fractions.

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<v Speaker 1>Pasta descendants, head rights are a lot more than just

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<v Speaker 1>a check in the mail for oil money. For a

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<v Speaker 1>long time, the federal government didn't even consider someone a

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<v Speaker 1>citizen of the os Age nation unless they had a

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<v Speaker 1>head right or a fraction of one. They couldn't vote

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<v Speaker 1>in O s Age elections without them. When Charles Pratt

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<v Speaker 1>and his co plaintiffs filed that lawsuit, they were arguing

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<v Speaker 1>the government was doing a bad job of managing all

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<v Speaker 1>the money that belonged to os Age head right holders.

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<v Speaker 1>They wanted the US to provide an accounting where all

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<v Speaker 1>this money oh Stage money was going and had gone

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<v Speaker 1>over the last hundred years. For a long time, the

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<v Speaker 1>way the US government managed this trust has been wrapped

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<v Speaker 1>in secrecy. Even the people who were meant to benefit

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<v Speaker 1>from the trust couldn't see the financial details. The government

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<v Speaker 1>had long kept the names of head right holders private too,

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<v Speaker 1>but as part of that lawsuit, a court ordered the

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<v Speaker 1>government to produce a list the names of people, churches,

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<v Speaker 1>oil companies and other groups that were not oth age,

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<v Speaker 1>but it somehow ended up with the share of the

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<v Speaker 1>mineral estate. Nearly two thousand names made public because of

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<v Speaker 1>a surprise decision by the court that all those non

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<v Speaker 1>sages would need to be sued too. This was the

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<v Speaker 1>first time in over a hundred years that we use

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<v Speaker 1>O sages were able to see in black and white

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<v Speaker 1>an official list, you know, from the government, of all

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<v Speaker 1>these NONO sages that had head rights. M let's see yea.

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<v Speaker 1>A local paper had published the list in full that morning.

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<v Speaker 1>The paper was The Big Heart Times. It's tagline reads

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<v Speaker 1>the only newspaper in the world that really gives the deadly.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is dated Thursday, June eight, two thousand and nine,

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<v Speaker 1>the Big Heart Times, and the headline raids suit names,

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<v Speaker 1>not O stage shareholders. The list of defendants is vast,

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<v Speaker 1>one thousand, seven nine people and entities. That includes ranchers, lawyers, churches, schools,

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<v Speaker 1>and even a former Library of Congress who wants to

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<v Speaker 1>join the Communist Party. That's an amazing So in addition

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<v Speaker 1>to individuals, there were corporations, there were a number of churches,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of trust. You see that a lot. Jean Harlowe,

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<v Speaker 1>the hiss And Memorial Center, University of Oklahoma, the University

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<v Speaker 1>of Texas as several oil companies are on there. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>the Drummonds were on there. Um they're a big ranch family.

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<v Speaker 1>Hand O Sage County. Some of these names Tera told

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<v Speaker 1>me we're pretty surprising. The family of Jean Harlowe, a

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<v Speaker 1>famous Hollywood actress in the nineteen thirties. The his Some

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<v Speaker 1>Memorial Center, an institution that was forced to shut down

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<v Speaker 1>decades ago because staff were accused of abusing the intellectually

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<v Speaker 1>disabled patients who lived there. Like, how in the world

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<v Speaker 1>did they get ahold of os Age head rights? Which

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<v Speaker 1>is the next logical question. You know, anyone looking at

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<v Speaker 1>that lift would ask, we do know how some non

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<v Speaker 1>oth ages would have ended up with head rights for

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<v Speaker 1>a long time. They could be sold to no oth ages.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes oth ages use their head right share as an

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<v Speaker 1>investment for a stake in a company. If you scan

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<v Speaker 1>through the list with all the churches and nonprofits, it

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<v Speaker 1>seems likely that a lot of them received head rights

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<v Speaker 1>from oz Age citizens who died and left them as

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<v Speaker 1>a charitable donation. But there was another way non oth

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<v Speaker 1>Ages got head rights. For a long time, someone outside

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<v Speaker 1>the Osage Nation could inherit one if they married an

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<v Speaker 1>oth s Age man or woman and that person died.

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<v Speaker 1>And when oil was discovered in Osage County and head

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<v Speaker 1>rights became incredibly valuable, os Ages who had them became targets.

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<v Speaker 1>Often you'll hear that time the referred to as the

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<v Speaker 1>Reign of Terror, when dozens of Osages were targeted and

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<v Speaker 1>widespread violent schemes. These weren't just one off crimes. It

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<v Speaker 1>was an entire criminal conspiracy led by white people who

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<v Speaker 1>would marry Osages for their head rights and then kill them.

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<v Speaker 1>And what I hope you'll see as we get into

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<v Speaker 1>this is that the Reign of Terror left a profound

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<v Speaker 1>impact on the Osage Nation. It devastated the community at

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<v Speaker 1>family's apart, and the effects are still present today. Terra says,

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time, the Rain of Terror just wasn't discussed.

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<v Speaker 1>It was too painful and the risk of becoming a

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<v Speaker 1>target again seemed too high. So when this lift came out,

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<v Speaker 1>people started asking questions. They were asking family members, So

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<v Speaker 1>it started sort of this unearthing of this sort of big, huge,

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<v Speaker 1>giant secret that you know O Stages or local people

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<v Speaker 1>that you know grew up in a Toronto Stage County

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<v Speaker 1>sort of always knew or suspected it was huge. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a significant moment. Think about that nineteen sixty, two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and nine. Imagine being defrauded all those years. I

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<v Speaker 1>think you're going to be pissed, right, Yeah. Yeah. Para

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<v Speaker 1>laughed sometimes when she talks about the but I don't

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<v Speaker 1>get the sense she thinks it's funny. There's this outrageousness

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<v Speaker 1>to it all that the Osage Nations Trustee, the US

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<v Speaker 1>federal government is keeping this information from the very people

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<v Speaker 1>this trust is for, even after that system created one

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<v Speaker 1>of the worst tragedies in the O s Age Nation's history.

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<v Speaker 1>Terris says when the list came out and people started

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<v Speaker 1>talking about where those head rights ended up, it gave

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<v Speaker 1>more momentum to what her uncle Charles was saying in

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<v Speaker 1>his lawsuit that the federal government wasn't doing a good

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<v Speaker 1>job managing OH Sage money. It absolutely made made us

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<v Speaker 1>start to question and wonder and ask, and you know

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<v Speaker 1>all these things that someone like in a shareholder of corporation,

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<v Speaker 1>those would be normal things, financial reports, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we have a right to know where our money is going.

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<v Speaker 1>Just so you know. I've asked the government agency that

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<v Speaker 1>manages the mineral estate, the Bureau of Indian Affair, about

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<v Speaker 1>some of the names on that list, like his him,

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<v Speaker 1>where those checks are going and who's getting paid, especially

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<v Speaker 1>if the organization literally doesn't exist anymore. A spokesman said

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<v Speaker 1>they don't comment on issues involving ongoing litigation. When it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to head rights, the federal government tends to say

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<v Speaker 1>it's a matter of privacy that the protections in place

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<v Speaker 1>for o s Age head right holders are the same

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<v Speaker 1>ones in place for non os Age ones. It's important

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<v Speaker 1>to remember that when it comes to the os Age

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<v Speaker 1>nation and tribal nations across the country, the United States

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<v Speaker 1>isn't just a bureaucrat. It's a trustee, a relationship born

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<v Speaker 1>from the treaties that were signed and often forced more

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<v Speaker 1>than the century ago. It means the federal government has

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<v Speaker 1>a fiduciary obligation to tribal nations and tribal citizens whose money, land,

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<v Speaker 1>and mineral rights are held in trust by the US

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<v Speaker 1>on their behalf. And that fiduciary obligation it's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>Consider er. The highest degree of duty that exists in

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<v Speaker 1>the American legal system. What I always tell people is

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<v Speaker 1>that that government that relationship can't end. Like we can't

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<v Speaker 1>divorce each other, you know what I mean, Like it's

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<v Speaker 1>it is what it is. We can't just say, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, we really don't like you, um and we

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<v Speaker 1>want we want someone else to manage our money. It

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't it doesn't work like that. So we're sort of

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<v Speaker 1>we are stuck with each other for better or worse.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the last several decades, the US has settled multiple

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<v Speaker 1>lawsuits for falling short of its trust duty when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to managing Native American assets. That includes a case

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<v Speaker 1>the Osage Nation brought more than twenty years ago that

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<v Speaker 1>the U s settled in twenty eleven for three d

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<v Speaker 1>eighty million dollars. The settlement paid out to all head

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<v Speaker 1>right holders sage or not, meaning someone with one head

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<v Speaker 1>right received a little over a hundred fifty thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>But Terra says the fact that NONO Sages continue to

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<v Speaker 1>get head right money shows the US is still falling

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<v Speaker 1>short of its obligation to the O s Age Nation.

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<v Speaker 1>When Terra's uncle Charles died, she took his spot as

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<v Speaker 1>one of the plaintiffs on the case. They've been successful

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<v Speaker 1>in getting a partial accounting, but the lawsuit is still ongoing. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 1>the os Age Nation has been working to get federal

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<v Speaker 1>legislation passed so that some of those head rights can

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<v Speaker 1>be returned. Today, a little over a quarter of all

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<v Speaker 1>head rights are owned by people or groups that are

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<v Speaker 1>not O s Age. When you account for inflation, head

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<v Speaker 1>rights owned by non os Ages have paid out half

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<v Speaker 1>a billion dollars over the last few decades. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>their money, it's our money. It's not Gane Hardlo's money,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not his a memorial center. It's it's our money.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, those those original lattas and their descendants. The

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<v Speaker 1>story starts with head rights, but it brought me far

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<v Speaker 1>beyond that, because when I started asking about how a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of non os ages ended up on that list,

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<v Speaker 1>I found another story too, a story about a whole

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<v Speaker 1>system that worked to move oc age wealth into the

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<v Speaker 1>hands of white people, A system that shapes to his

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<v Speaker 1>land and influence here today, a system set up by

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<v Speaker 1>the federal government. You're listening to in trust, I'm Rachel

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<v Speaker 1>Adams heard. I want to tell you more about that

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<v Speaker 1>list of non os Age head right holders. But to

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<v Speaker 1>really understand what it meant for that list to go public,

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>you have to know how the os Age Nation got

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>to its reservation and how the head right system was created.

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 1>For a long time, o s Age Territory stretched across

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 1>the land that would eventually make up Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri,

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 1>and Arkansas. But the US government pressured the os Age

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Nation into a series of treaties until it was left

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 1>with just a small fraction of that land, a reservation

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 1>in Kansas. But after a conflict with white settlers on

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 1>that reservation, the os Age Nation went south to what

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>would later become os Age County. The tribe had soldier

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.000
<v Speaker 1>lands in Kansas use that money to buy this reservation.

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>This is Jim Gray. He was chief of the os

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Age Nation from two thousand to two thousand. We didn't

0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:44.040
<v Speaker 1>just get moved here by treaty. We bought it. We

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 1>had a property title to it. The os Age Nation

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 1>purchased its new reservation from the Cherokee Nation in the seventies.

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Jim told me that property title would prove to be

0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 1>massively important because not long after the os Age Nation

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 1>moved the US government wanted to change things again. The

0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.480
<v Speaker 1>government wanted to take the Sage Reservation, which the nation

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.440
<v Speaker 1>as a whole, health the title too, and parceled out

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to individuals Age citizens instead. This was called allotment. This

0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 1>individual o Sage receiving an individual allotment. That was new.

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 1>We never went down that road of individual landowners, even

0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.480
<v Speaker 1>in Missouri or Arkansas. It was all everyone benefited from

0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.920
<v Speaker 1>the collective ownership of this land, and they whatever bounty

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 1>came from it was spread with all the people. Allotment

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.760
<v Speaker 1>started on a lot of Native land after Congress passed

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 1>the DAWs General Allotman Act in seven. This was part

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 1>of a broader, deliberate and violent strategy to try and

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 1>assimilate Native communities, kill off their traditions and lifestyles, and

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 1>make their land available for white settlement. According to the book,

0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Uneven ground At reduced Native American controlled land from two

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:08.400
<v Speaker 1>billion acres to one fifty million acres. But the oth

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.280
<v Speaker 1>Age Nation was initially exempt from the DAWs Act and

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:16.480
<v Speaker 1>allotment because of that property title Jim mentioned. So when

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.760
<v Speaker 1>they tried to a lot the oth Sage lands, they

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.919
<v Speaker 1>couldn't do it without our consent. Where they could just

0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.159
<v Speaker 1>do whatever they wanted with everyone else's land. That was

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 1>an Indian territory they had. The tribe had some political

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:36.720
<v Speaker 1>rights that protected their property interest, negotiating power, but not

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 1>not enough to stop it all together. Statehood was coming.

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>There's no way you can stop that. And the tribal

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 1>leader at that time, James Bigheart, who was a brilliant

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:52.200
<v Speaker 1>man and way ahead of his time, did what he thought.

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:54.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, what he thought was the right thing to do.

0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Is so we cut a deal. Okay, a lot to

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 1>surface lay, but the subsurface remains as a mineral state.

0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.920
<v Speaker 1>This was a savvy and unique deal that O s

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Age leaders negotiated. It's all laid out in a law

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.480
<v Speaker 1>called the nineteen o six os Age Allotment Act, and

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.360
<v Speaker 1>that law is where head rates come from, all those

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.040
<v Speaker 1>shares of all the oil and gas rights beneath the land.

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.919
<v Speaker 1>The year after that law, Oklahoma became a state and

0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.080
<v Speaker 1>it established O Sage County directly on top of the

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.479
<v Speaker 1>O s Age Reservation. There were already some white families

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.639
<v Speaker 1>living there, traders and cattlemen, but after allotment, more and

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 1>more settlers moved there and started trying to get land

0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:43.440
<v Speaker 1>and head rights for themselves. Starting in the nineteen teens,

0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:48.439
<v Speaker 1>head rights became incredibly valuable. Oil production took off and

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.680
<v Speaker 1>money was pouring in. A lot of os Age families

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.600
<v Speaker 1>could afford the finest cars, the nicest furniture. There were

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.919
<v Speaker 1>tales of this wealth across the country, many of them exaggerated.

0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.880
<v Speaker 1>In June, the os Age Nation made the New York

0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Times the headline os Age our richest people in all

0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 1>caps and then greatest per capital wealth in world results

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.600
<v Speaker 1>from oil deal. But that wealth and all that attention

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:25.200
<v Speaker 1>it brought tragedy. There was the dominant society's view that

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:34.000
<v Speaker 1>these savages weren't entitled to anything, and if they got something,

0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 1>then it was within your right as a white person

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 1>to take it. And that mentality spilled out into the

0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:47.200
<v Speaker 1>entire society. In an inspector from the Department of Interior

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.919
<v Speaker 1>was sent to oth Age County to report on the

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:54.560
<v Speaker 1>explosion of wealth. Two years later, that inspector, a man

0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 1>named hs Trailer, submitted to Congress of racist tirade against

0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.439
<v Speaker 1>os Age is and how they spent their money. He

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.200
<v Speaker 1>called it sinful, and he said if something wasn't done

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 1>about o s Age wealth, then quote their everlasting damnation

0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.760
<v Speaker 1>is as sure and certain as the daily sinking of

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 1>the sun in the West. He neglected to mention the

0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 1>uptick and crime against O. S Age head right holders.

0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.400
<v Speaker 1>No acknowledgment that this money belonged to O. S Age

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.120
<v Speaker 1>citizens and they could do whatever they wanted with it,

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 1>or that OH Stage spending was largely in line with

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 1>that of white Americans in the same income bracket. These

0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:37.359
<v Speaker 1>guys were friends of the Native American community. And the

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>fact that these particular Native Americans ended up with a

0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:46.719
<v Speaker 1>credibly wealthy something something's wrong with the system, you know.

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.840
<v Speaker 1>And if one of them got killed and someone sought

0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 1>justice in the state courts, they didn't get it. Do

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.680
<v Speaker 1>you think these guys lost any sleep over it. It's

0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.919
<v Speaker 1>hard to communicate the full breadth and impact of the

0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 1>reign of terror, but you can't understand the importance of

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.760
<v Speaker 1>the list without knowing that this was a tragedy that

0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:12.120
<v Speaker 1>many white people in Osage County were complicit in. Groups

0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.320
<v Speaker 1>of white people conspired to manipulate and murder O s

0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.439
<v Speaker 1>Age citizens. The FBI confirmed as much nearly a hundred

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.920
<v Speaker 1>years ago. O Stages were shot, they were poisoned, their

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 1>cars were run off the road. One couple's house was

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.320
<v Speaker 1>blown up, and it was just like a cottage industry

0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.719
<v Speaker 1>of finding different ways to off O Sages. And in

0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.120
<v Speaker 1>all those cases there was always some non Indian benefiting

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:43.679
<v Speaker 1>from that, whether it was a guardian or spouse, creditor, whatever.

0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>We don't have exact numbers on how many people were

0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.879
<v Speaker 1>targeted then, because what researchers have found is that a

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.800
<v Speaker 1>lot of these cases were investigated, a lot of times

0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.560
<v Speaker 1>they were covered up. Official figures put it somewhere between

0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty four and six oth Ages who were killed in

0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen twenties, but at least one federal investigator

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 1>thought it could be in the hundreds. Corruption was rampant

0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and local officials often couldn't be trusted, but the reign

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:18.440
<v Speaker 1>of terror wasn't limited to murderer. It was shady financial

0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:23.080
<v Speaker 1>maneuvering on behalf of bankers and lawyers, intricate schemes involving

0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 1>probates and powers of attorney. Sometimes it was more blunt,

0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:31.160
<v Speaker 1>getting someone drunk and tricking them into signing away their land.

0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 1>It was like every institution that existed in O Sage

0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:39.879
<v Speaker 1>Nation at the time, or OUs Age County, whoever you

0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>want to call it was not there for any other

0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:45.640
<v Speaker 1>purpose but to separate the O Sages from their land

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:50.359
<v Speaker 1>and their money. That's how O Sages fell. It's worth

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.760
<v Speaker 1>remembering the US legal system, the English language, This was

0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.480
<v Speaker 1>all almost totally new to a lot of oth Ages

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:02.400
<v Speaker 1>at the time. The government, specifically the Department of Interior's

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Office of Indian Affairs, they were supposed to make sure

0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:09.119
<v Speaker 1>that didn't lead to exploitation, but they didn't do a

0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:13.000
<v Speaker 1>very good job. What the government chose to do was

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.040
<v Speaker 1>label O Stage citizens incompetent, that was the official word

0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.600
<v Speaker 1>they used, incompetent, and put white people in charge of

0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 1>their finances. This was an official system. At one point,

0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of Stages and other Native Americans were by default

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:35.200
<v Speaker 1>appointed a guardian, an educated white person, usually a lawyer

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 1>or a businessman, who had managed their money for them,

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:44.200
<v Speaker 1>a paternalistic policy steeped in racism that white politicians justified

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.680
<v Speaker 1>as a way to protect Native Americans from getting swindled

0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:51.879
<v Speaker 1>and stolen from But often those guardians were in on

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.960
<v Speaker 1>the very schemes the government said it was trying to prevent.

0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 1>We don't really see them as incompetent. Full rules who

0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 1>lost everything. We see him more as a horrible victim

0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 1>of an of a greedy society that while they were

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.119
<v Speaker 1>trying to learn to walk in both worlds, this world

0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.639
<v Speaker 1>just came and stomped on them. You know. Some of

0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 1>them survived, some of them didn't, you know. But it's

0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 1>a difficult, difficult chapter in our tribe's history that unfortunately

0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:30.159
<v Speaker 1>has created a form of generational trauma, and and not

0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 1>so much in the way that you think, but that

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:38.200
<v Speaker 1>it robbed us of a generational wealth. A single head

0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:41.920
<v Speaker 1>right today, adjusted for inflation, would have paid out about

0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.800
<v Speaker 1>four million dollars over the last hundred years. Could you

0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 1>imagine if if we were able to hang on to

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:50.360
<v Speaker 1>that fourth of the head rights that have gone out

0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.000
<v Speaker 1>of the tribe, and those dollars got reinvested in our

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 1>children's education or buying land, or building the land up,

0:24:57.000 --> 0:25:01.480
<v Speaker 1>or protecting our tribal community and in ways that we

0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:05.200
<v Speaker 1>can imagine, and have the children raised in that environment

0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 1>do the same in their lives and have those head

0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:12.040
<v Speaker 1>right moneyies coming in and they're building wealth. But that

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:15.840
<v Speaker 1>was never gonna happen to us because of all these

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:20.359
<v Speaker 1>different interests from the outside that were bent on either

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>exploiting the laws, or bending the law or ignoring the

0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:27.679
<v Speaker 1>law to get away with whatever they would needed to

0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:30.960
<v Speaker 1>do to get their hands on the money. It's hard

0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.360
<v Speaker 1>to know how many head rights left oh s Age

0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 1>ownership because of the reign of terror. A big part

0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.600
<v Speaker 1>of that is because very few people were investigated back then,

0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:44.040
<v Speaker 1>much less convicted. The most famous conviction from that time

0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.320
<v Speaker 1>was of a rancher named William K. Hale, who was

0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 1>accused of masterminding the murders of several oh s Ages.

0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 1>He only got caught because the oth Age Nation hired

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:58.040
<v Speaker 1>the FBI to look into the murders dollars out of

0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>pocket to get federal authority used to investigate. Yeah, this

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:05.000
<v Speaker 1>took a long time to get this guy behind bars.

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.600
<v Speaker 1>He had vast resources at his disposal that you know,

0:26:10.320 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 1>manipulated the media that influenced the judges, influenced juries, influenced

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:19.879
<v Speaker 1>the prosecutors, and public sentiment was all in his favor

0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 1>at the time. Eventually, Hale was found guilty of just

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:28.160
<v Speaker 1>one of the murderers he allegedly ordered. He was convicted

0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:30.399
<v Speaker 1>for eating and abetting the killing of an O s

0:26:30.440 --> 0:26:33.879
<v Speaker 1>Age man named Henry Ron Ron was shot in the

0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 1>head in his car. He was Jim's great grandfather, being

0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the last of seven kids. I guess mom was running

0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:46.199
<v Speaker 1>out of names to give us. I don't know, but

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:50.680
<v Speaker 1>she named me James Brown Gray. I think it was

0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:55.800
<v Speaker 1>her way of making me aware of that past. The

0:26:55.880 --> 0:27:00.159
<v Speaker 1>mayor of Fairfax said Ron considered Hale a friend of

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:03.760
<v Speaker 1>his best friends. But there isn't much surviving knowledge about

0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Henry Brown's life outside of the FBI files. Looking back,

0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:14.719
<v Speaker 1>and I think about how many O sage families just

0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:19.639
<v Speaker 1>stopped talking about the Rain of Terror for fear it

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 1>would bring about some tragic consequences to their lives. People

0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:27.240
<v Speaker 1>just stopped talking about it. Mom grew up in environment,

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 1>and since she didn't really talk about it that much,

0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:38.080
<v Speaker 1>you could see this generational trauma that it cost. My

0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 1>education is whatever I read, it wasn't any oral stories

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:46.680
<v Speaker 1>that were passed town. It wasn't until the nineties, when

0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Jim was a young adult that he would ask his

0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:52.280
<v Speaker 1>mom about the Reign of Terror. Jim had just read

0:27:52.320 --> 0:27:56.360
<v Speaker 1>a new book from Washington Post journalist Dennis mccauliffe Jr.

0:27:56.880 --> 0:28:00.439
<v Speaker 1>It's called The Deaths of Simple Bolton. I talked to

0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.880
<v Speaker 1>her about it we had one conversation. In the book mccaulliffe,

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:09.199
<v Speaker 1>whose osage himself, investigates the murder of his grandmother, a

0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:12.960
<v Speaker 1>woman named Sybil Bolton. Mccauliffe had grown up believing his

0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:17.520
<v Speaker 1>grandmother died from kidney disease, but what mcculloff found was

0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.240
<v Speaker 1>that she was murdered, shot in front of her home,

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 1>likely by her guardian, her white stepfather. While the FBI

0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 1>was focused on getting hail, her stepfather was after her

0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 1>head right. One of the things that startled me about

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:37.480
<v Speaker 1>reading Dennis's book was that he was writing about killings

0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:41.080
<v Speaker 1>in his own family, but also scenarios that he could

0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 1>tell through his research that there was a lot of

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 1>unsolved murders going on, you know. And he explained how

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:54.040
<v Speaker 1>the the mortuaries would right the death certificates in such

0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 1>a way where they would not draw any attention. Henry

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Rowne is mentioned in that book, and that got Jim

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:04.960
<v Speaker 1>curious about other members of his family. So one day,

0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 1>when he was visiting his mom back home, he decided

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>to ask her about it. She was in living room

0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:11.960
<v Speaker 1>and I was in the kitchen, and I was just

0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 1>shouting questions at her because I was reading the book.

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:15.720
<v Speaker 1>I said, have you read the book? Have you read

0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:20.240
<v Speaker 1>what Jujiah read? And you know, so, how did Grandpa

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Gray die? You had a heart attack. How did Grandma

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Gray die? She died giving birth to your your uncle Clarence.

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:30.719
<v Speaker 1>How did your mom die? She died in a car,

0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:35.040
<v Speaker 1>right as did your uncle when he was an infant.

0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 1>So you read the book, you have this conversation with

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>your mom and next thing, you know, what Dennis was

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:52.400
<v Speaker 1>writing was arguably could be happening in this family, but

0:29:52.480 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 1>we just didn't talk about it. What did you think

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 1>after that conversation. She's way too smart to be naive,

0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:21.120
<v Speaker 1>but she was that. She was trying to pretend she was.

0:30:22.200 --> 0:30:26.480
<v Speaker 1>That's what I thought. I'm trying to put myself in

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:30.880
<v Speaker 1>my mom's place right now. She lived through all that

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:34.000
<v Speaker 1>as a child, and here she is, you know, under

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 1>late sixties in the trying to explain it to her

0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:44.560
<v Speaker 1>young son who's in his twenties, and how much do

0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 1>you share? Whatever? More she knew she it went to

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:54.360
<v Speaker 1>her grave, you know. But just that one little conversation

0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 1>we had about how everyone passed away, she acknowledged in

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:04.840
<v Speaker 1>that ten year span, my grandfather, my grandmother, my grandmother

0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:08.880
<v Speaker 1>on my other side, and my uncle on that same side,

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:15.200
<v Speaker 1>and my great grandfather all. But what were those ten

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:26.520
<v Speaker 1>years from the reason that this is important is that

0:31:26.600 --> 0:31:29.400
<v Speaker 1>it has not gone away with our tribe. Our people

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 1>have not made peace with this yet. We were forced

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:37.560
<v Speaker 1>into silence out of fear and fear It is probably

0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:41.360
<v Speaker 1>not the right word, because fear is something that you

0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:46.160
<v Speaker 1>imagine in your mind that's not really happening. No, it

0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:49.400
<v Speaker 1>was happening. You know, it's not fear if it's really happening. Right,

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Jim Gray is not the only oc Age citizen who's

0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 1>had to piece together parts of his family history with

0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:01.760
<v Speaker 1>books and research that generation their elders, they just didn't

0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 1>talk about it. What I took from that conversation with

0:32:05.520 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Jim and the many other phone calls and sit downs

0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 1>we've had over the last several months, is that it's

0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:14.360
<v Speaker 1>not just the Bureau of Indian Affairs that's keeping details

0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:17.800
<v Speaker 1>about non os Age head right holders a secret. There's

0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:20.600
<v Speaker 1>this big gap and a lot of Osage famili's history

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:23.480
<v Speaker 1>when it comes to that time period, and that's made

0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.120
<v Speaker 1>it difficult for even the os Age nation to piece

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:30.840
<v Speaker 1>together which outsiders have shares of their mineral estate. Jim says,

0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 1>people have tried. We got a list that was handwritten.

0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>It was copied and copied and copied and handed out

0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:42.840
<v Speaker 1>at different meetings. There was just a list of names,

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:47.640
<v Speaker 1>organizations and individuals, but no value next to each one

0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:49.680
<v Speaker 1>of them where they owned one head ride or ten

0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:54.120
<v Speaker 1>head rights or fraction of one. When Jim became chief,

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 1>he says that handwritten list had already been circulating within

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:00.920
<v Speaker 1>the os Age Nation's government. That list that I had,

0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:04.840
<v Speaker 1>that all wrinkled up over copied list, It wasn't actual.

0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:06.640
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't attribute it to anybody at the b I

0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:10.360
<v Speaker 1>as an official list. The b I would never go

0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:12.959
<v Speaker 1>on the record and say these are the people who

0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 1>got head rights and who wrote the list. We don't know.

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>No one at the b I would ever acknowledge who

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:32.200
<v Speaker 1>authored that list. They've been protecting. Those names are over

0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 1>a hundred years. You know, names of non no stages

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.160
<v Speaker 1>who have our money and get our money. You know

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 1>that today. Yeah, when the official list came out, the

0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.240
<v Speaker 1>one Tara Damon saw in the paper with all the

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.280
<v Speaker 1>nonoc ages who had head rights. It wasn't just o

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:55.239
<v Speaker 1>s Age citizens who noticed a lot of people, a

0:33:55.240 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 1>lot of namely that probably those people that were on

0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 1>that list, Um, we're not happy, you know. And they

0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.720
<v Speaker 1>were very vocal and I know that from you personal

0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:07.120
<v Speaker 1>communication with Charles Pratt, and they came up to him

0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and we're just so angry that this list had come out.

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:13.439
<v Speaker 1>This had all been kept under wraps for so long.

0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Now it was out there in the open. You should

0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:19.000
<v Speaker 1>have seen the amount of attorneys that showed up to

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:22.320
<v Speaker 1>represent the white people. Kara told me about one time

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:25.120
<v Speaker 1>when her uncle Charles brought her to court with him.

0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:28.319
<v Speaker 1>I had driven him and you know, we went to

0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 1>court and I said, who were those people? And he said, oh,

0:34:30.640 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 1>those are the Chorneese for the white people. You know,

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 1>they're all here. One attorney told me after the list

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:39.960
<v Speaker 1>came out, the courtroom was like an Oklahoma Bar Association meeting.

0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:42.680
<v Speaker 1>A bunch of people on that list got a lawyer.

0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:45.520
<v Speaker 1>But in the end they didn't really need the lawyers.

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:48.799
<v Speaker 1>After all that, the court said it wasn't necessary for

0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 1>all these people to be at it as defendants for

0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 1>the case to go forward. But the list. They couldn't

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:59.720
<v Speaker 1>undo the list. It was just out there, lingering, no explanations,

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:04.000
<v Speaker 1>no amounts just names, and for the last thirteen years,

0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:07.279
<v Speaker 1>lots and lots of questions about how on earth they

0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:10.920
<v Speaker 1>ended up with. Os Age had rights Worker is underway

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:14.280
<v Speaker 1>in Pajuska, or director Martin Scorsese will make his next movie,

0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Killers of the Flower Movie. People talk more than ever

0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:21.200
<v Speaker 1>about the Reign of Terror now, maybe partly because of

0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:24.440
<v Speaker 1>that list, but mostly because of a movie about it

0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:26.359
<v Speaker 1>said to come out within the next year or so.

0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:29.360
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the movie was filmed in Osage County

0:35:29.560 --> 0:35:34.280
<v Speaker 1>and features Osage citizens crews recreating the nineteen twenties tearing

0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:36.880
<v Speaker 1>out metal to restore what the streets of a Huska

0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:42.239
<v Speaker 1>wants looked like. It's directed by Martin Scorsese. Leonardo DiCaprio

0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and Robert de Niro are starring in it. So is

0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Lily Gladstone, who grew up on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation

0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:51.719
<v Speaker 1>in Montana. As filming started, o s Age leaders met

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.720
<v Speaker 1>with Scorsese. If the story was going to be told,

0:35:54.960 --> 0:35:58.520
<v Speaker 1>they wanted it told right. The movie is based on

0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:01.680
<v Speaker 1>a book also called Killers of the Flower Moon. It's

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.480
<v Speaker 1>from a few years ago by a journalist named David Grant.

0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:07.520
<v Speaker 1>The book focuses a lot on the murders William Hale

0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 1>was behind, including Henry Rownes. There have been a few

0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:13.680
<v Speaker 1>books about the Reign of Terror, but none of them

0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 1>took off quite like Grands. The book's success has met

0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:19.399
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people across the country are now learning

0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.759
<v Speaker 1>about this history for the first time, and as that

0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:26.560
<v Speaker 1>history becomes more widely known, people have even started traveling

0:36:26.600 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 1>to Osage County to see where it all happened. An

0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 1>o s Age News article from June of counted four

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.799
<v Speaker 1>tours being offered in the county at the cemetery where

0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:39.680
<v Speaker 1>many of the victims are buried. The Osage Nation had

0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:43.720
<v Speaker 1>to put up offense to keep tourists out. This history

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:47.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't end a hundred years ago. It still shaped Osage

0:36:47.200 --> 0:36:50.720
<v Speaker 1>County today, and not just its tourism. It's left behind

0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:55.759
<v Speaker 1>questions about who gained wealth back then and how, questions

0:36:55.960 --> 0:37:00.279
<v Speaker 1>that could have painful answers. I asked Tara, would it

0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:03.239
<v Speaker 1>be better to leave that past alone? I don't want

0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:12.359
<v Speaker 1>it to be like unnecessarily opening old wounds. You know,

0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:17.920
<v Speaker 1>It's there's never been any closure, So the truth has

0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:20.799
<v Speaker 1>got to come out, you know, and it and it's

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:24.880
<v Speaker 1>it's not always pretty and it's not always flattering. Um,

0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:27.760
<v Speaker 1>but I think that's one thing that as O sages

0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 1>were we as if people have to acknowledge that and

0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:34.520
<v Speaker 1>and go through that, and then the same thing for

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.799
<v Speaker 1>everyone else that was involved. You know that that is involved.

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:40.120
<v Speaker 1>And it's probably gonna depend on who you talked to,

0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:43.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, because some people will feel differently about it. Um.

0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:47.080
<v Speaker 1>And then I was just you know, they're too powerful

0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:52.760
<v Speaker 1>or just stop or you know, um, they they being

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 1>like you know, like the Drummonds or someone that has

0:37:56.320 --> 0:38:01.759
<v Speaker 1>so much property, Oh, sage property. How did you get it?

0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:08.680
<v Speaker 1>How they get it? I haven't fully told you yet.

0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Why I'm telling you this story, why I first called

0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Tara more than a year ago. Why we're talking about

0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:18.480
<v Speaker 1>this list. I'm telling you all this because on that list,

0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:22.480
<v Speaker 1>alongside the Catholic church oil companies, the family of a

0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:32.920
<v Speaker 1>movie star is another name Drummond. I'm read Drummond. I

0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:35.120
<v Speaker 1>live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere, and

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:38.800
<v Speaker 1>all my recipes have to be approved by cowboys, hungry kids,

0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.960
<v Speaker 1>and Nate. Here's what's happening on the ranch. If you

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.960
<v Speaker 1>know the name Drummond, it's probably because of the pioneer

0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:49.120
<v Speaker 1>woman read Drummond. She's another reason Pahaska is getting so

0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:51.680
<v Speaker 1>much attention right now. We told you last night at ten.

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Read Drummond, also known as The Pioneer Woman and for

0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:58.200
<v Speaker 1>her hit show on the Food Network, How the Job

0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Fair in Tulsa Today for or the Pioneer Woman Mercantile

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:06.239
<v Speaker 1>store opening in Pasco. Reads a Food Network star. She's

0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:09.720
<v Speaker 1>become famous for her down home cooking recipes for chicken

0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:13.080
<v Speaker 1>fried steak and chocolate peanut butter pies and not You

0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:17.239
<v Speaker 1>Naked Brownies. Her restaurants in downtown Pahaska bring a bunch

0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 1>of tourists. You can shop at her store called The

0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Mercantile and stay at her hotel, The Pioneer Woman Boarding House.

0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Re started out as a blogger, but over the last

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.040
<v Speaker 1>ten years or so, her brand is kind of exploded.

0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:33.720
<v Speaker 1>She has a lifestyle website published by Hearst and Walmart.

0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Carries a line of dishes and fro towels and clothing,

0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:41.480
<v Speaker 1>all with her trademark floral design. Refashions herself as a

0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:44.920
<v Speaker 1>city girl turned branchwife. She married into the Drummond family.

0:39:45.320 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Her brand sells a lifestyle call it Upmarket Pioneer and

0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:52.319
<v Speaker 1>her books and blog posts. She calls her husband Lad

0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Drummond the Marlborough Man. He runs a massive ranching operation

0:39:56.840 --> 0:40:00.080
<v Speaker 1>alongside his brother Tim. His family has been her and

0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 1>cattle for four generations here in Pawhuska, Oklahoma, near Tulsa.

0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I've asked for an interview with her and Lad, but

0:40:10.600 --> 0:40:13.600
<v Speaker 1>so far she hasn't responded. And I want to be

0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:16.399
<v Speaker 1>clear that while she's built her brand around the drum

0:40:16.480 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 1>and ranching legacy, a lot of what I'm going to

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:21.719
<v Speaker 1>tell you about in this series happened long before Re

0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:24.919
<v Speaker 1>or any other present day members of the family were

0:40:24.960 --> 0:40:28.520
<v Speaker 1>even born today. When you look at a map of

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:32.040
<v Speaker 1>os Age County, a place that was once owned entirely

0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:35.200
<v Speaker 1>by the OCGE Nation, a huge chunk of it is

0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:38.359
<v Speaker 1>now owned by the Drummond family and other large non

0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:42.319
<v Speaker 1>o s Age ranching incorporations. A lot of Drummonds are

0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:45.920
<v Speaker 1>still ranchers. Some are lawyers all right. The following segment

0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:48.880
<v Speaker 1>is sponsored by a Blue Sky Bank. One of them

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:52.239
<v Speaker 1>runs a bank like this is a bank has been

0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:54.880
<v Speaker 1>around for a long long time. We are one of

0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:59.080
<v Speaker 1>the last remaining true community owned banks. Began in Pahuska

0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:01.960
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen o four or the Drummond in this interview.

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:05.240
<v Speaker 1>The one who owns Blue Sky Bank is named getting A. Drummond.

0:41:05.640 --> 0:41:09.520
<v Speaker 1>He's also the Republican nominee for Oklahoma Attorney General. The

0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.000
<v Speaker 1>election is this November, and it comes out a pretty

0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:15.520
<v Speaker 1>critical time for the state and tribal nations in Oklahoma.

0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:18.920
<v Speaker 1>If Gettinger wins, he'll be leading the way Oklahoma responds

0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:22.040
<v Speaker 1>to a series of Supreme Court decisions that have huge

0:41:22.080 --> 0:41:25.839
<v Speaker 1>impacts on tribal sovereignty. No Democratic candidates filed the run

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:28.319
<v Speaker 1>for a g in this race. The victory comes as

0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:30.319
<v Speaker 1>a big relief for Drummond, who lost in a close

0:41:30.360 --> 0:41:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Republican primary runoff. I could go on about the various

0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:38.040
<v Speaker 1>ways the Drummonds are deeply rooted in Oklahoma. The family

0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:40.719
<v Speaker 1>has been here since before it was a state. They

0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:42.400
<v Speaker 1>were some of the first white people on the O.

0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:46.360
<v Speaker 1>S H. Reservation. The first Drumman who came here, named Frederick,

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:49.279
<v Speaker 1>was a Scottish immigrant. He moved to the O. S H.

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:53.359
<v Speaker 1>Reservation in the late eighteen hundreds. But the reason I'm

0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:55.680
<v Speaker 1>telling you all this is that a hundred years ago,

0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:59.560
<v Speaker 1>members of the Drummond family were intertwined with the financial

0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:03.479
<v Speaker 1>affair of generations of o s Age families. They owned

0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a store that almost the whole town of Hominy shopped at.

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:09.400
<v Speaker 1>They ran the town bank, helped oversee the publisher of

0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:13.160
<v Speaker 1>the local paper, owned part of a funeral home. They

0:42:13.160 --> 0:42:18.480
<v Speaker 1>were financial guardians, administered estates, and they bought land, lots

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:21.720
<v Speaker 1>of it. Today, a bunch of members of the extended

0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Drummond family have land in ranching businesses in os Age County.

0:42:26.520 --> 0:42:30.160
<v Speaker 1>When you put the dozens of Drummond individuals and entities together,

0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the broader family owns more land there than anyone else,

0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.440
<v Speaker 1>almost nine of the county. In fact, there's some of

0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the biggest landowners in the state. The name Drummonds on

0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:43.280
<v Speaker 1>that list of non os Age head right holders too.

0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:47.239
<v Speaker 1>It's right there in black and white. The Alfred Alexander

0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 1>Drummond Trust, Frederick Drummond, someone named Jeane Drummond. Those last

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:55.000
<v Speaker 1>two have died since the list was published, meaning those

0:42:55.040 --> 0:43:00.640
<v Speaker 1>head right shares have passed down to someone else. I've

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:03.239
<v Speaker 1>been reporting on energy, oil and gas for the most

0:43:03.280 --> 0:43:06.880
<v Speaker 1>part for a few years now, and one day I

0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 1>got a call from a source, an Oklahoma oil guy.

0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:13.759
<v Speaker 1>He had a tip. The source told me there was

0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:16.719
<v Speaker 1>more to the Drummonds than people outside Osage County knew.

0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:19.879
<v Speaker 1>He told me the Drummonds had head rights, maybe even

0:43:19.960 --> 0:43:23.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot. This was just a rumor, but knowing the

0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:26.840
<v Speaker 1>history of the place, all the tragedy surrounding head rights,

0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:32.880
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to know if it was true. We'll be

0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:39.959
<v Speaker 1>right back. The list in the Big Heart Times told

0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:42.200
<v Speaker 1>me some of the Drummonds had head rights, or at

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.879
<v Speaker 1>least pieces of them, But I wanted to know if

0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:47.960
<v Speaker 1>this was the name that stood out to folks. There

0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:51.880
<v Speaker 1>are so many people out there that have access to

0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:56.040
<v Speaker 1>head right payments that are nono sage. They have no

0:43:56.120 --> 0:44:00.359
<v Speaker 1>business whatsoever with them. I started asking around at head

0:44:00.440 --> 0:44:03.200
<v Speaker 1>rights and then on oath ages who had them, and

0:44:03.280 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 1>I learned that Drummond is one of the first names

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:08.880
<v Speaker 1>people bring up. There's always, you know, the tales that

0:44:08.960 --> 0:44:12.960
<v Speaker 1>you hear that the Grummans have head rights, Conico Phillips

0:44:12.960 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 1>has some, the Drummonds have some. I asked everyone who

0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:19.319
<v Speaker 1>would talked to me what they had heard about the

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Drummonds history, what they might be holding onto today. And

0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:25.640
<v Speaker 1>the more people I talked to, the more I started

0:44:25.680 --> 0:44:32.480
<v Speaker 1>to hear a lot of different numbers. Anywhere seven there

0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 1>was a number in the nights that i've you know,

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:39.240
<v Speaker 1>because people talk to you so like all the checks

0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:42.120
<v Speaker 1>go through this thing called the b I A. Someone

0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:45.839
<v Speaker 1>told me you were in a meeting one time and

0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:53.440
<v Speaker 1>you said that the Drummonds have two head rights approximately.

0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:57.680
<v Speaker 1>What's the exact quote. I don't know the real answer.

0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:01.000
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen the list. Sometimes times the numbers were

0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:10.279
<v Speaker 1>lower more. I thought it was like dat, I don't

0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:13.920
<v Speaker 1>see any you have. Do you think that the number

0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:15.919
<v Speaker 1>is a lot lower? I think it's a lot lower,

0:45:15.920 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 1>probably two three. I've talked to members of the Drummond

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:24.480
<v Speaker 1>family for the story. You'll hear from some of them

0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:27.000
<v Speaker 1>later in this series, and I want to note that

0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:32.279
<v Speaker 1>their family history, Oklahoma history, it's complicated. One member of

0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the Drummond family told me he's a citizen at the

0:45:34.600 --> 0:45:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Choctaw Nation that his mother's side has its own history

0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:41.000
<v Speaker 1>with the fallout of white settlement. We'll get to that,

0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:43.520
<v Speaker 1>but for now, just know that when I asked some

0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:46.399
<v Speaker 1>of the Drummond family about head rights, they also said

0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:50.239
<v Speaker 1>the numbers a lot lower. My name is Jason Ahmat

0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:53.400
<v Speaker 1>and an attorney at a law firm called the Indian

0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:58.000
<v Speaker 1>and Environmental law group here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Jason Ahmat

0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:01.359
<v Speaker 1>has seen the list, the one with numbers. Jason spent

0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:04.360
<v Speaker 1>the past twenty years working on the mismanagement case that

0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:08.320
<v Speaker 1>made the list public. He represented Charles pratt Ter, his uncle.

0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:11.840
<v Speaker 1>At the heart of the lawsuit is this idea that

0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:15.399
<v Speaker 1>the government has mismanaged the mineral estate and never had

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:18.839
<v Speaker 1>to fully account for where all the money's gone. You said, look,

0:46:18.840 --> 0:46:21.200
<v Speaker 1>not only are the is the fellow government failing to

0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:24.680
<v Speaker 1>account for these things, but when they're failing to account

0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:27.840
<v Speaker 1>for them, they're also paying some people too much money,

0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:31.120
<v Speaker 1>not paying other people enough money, not paying some people

0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:34.080
<v Speaker 1>who are entitled any money at all. And when Jason

0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:37.120
<v Speaker 1>and his co council made that argument to get an accounting,

0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:40.200
<v Speaker 1>the government turned around and said, it's not just us

0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:42.799
<v Speaker 1>you should be suing. There's all these other people who

0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:45.440
<v Speaker 1>are out here who are non Indians. And if the

0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:49.000
<v Speaker 1>if the planeffs are saying that we're paying those people money,

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:52.880
<v Speaker 1>right then um, and we shouldn't that you should have

0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:56.480
<v Speaker 1>they should have to name them as defendant. And initially

0:46:56.520 --> 0:47:03.319
<v Speaker 1>the court bought that really crappy argument right um, and

0:47:03.520 --> 0:47:06.120
<v Speaker 1>ordered us to do that. The court's order got the

0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:09.760
<v Speaker 1>government to turn over the list to Jason. That version

0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:13.680
<v Speaker 1>has numbers, but Jason's bound by a protective order. The

0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:16.040
<v Speaker 1>court has limited how much he can talk about this,

0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:18.560
<v Speaker 1>so we have to be careful what he says. And

0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:22.600
<v Speaker 1>while we complied with very carefully with the court's protective order,

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:26.319
<v Speaker 1>we were required to name each of those entities and

0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:29.840
<v Speaker 1>people in the complaint that was filed in the case,

0:47:29.920 --> 0:47:32.360
<v Speaker 1>and so they're all named in the caption of the case.

0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:36.800
<v Speaker 1>So that's how the names without numbers ended up in

0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:39.879
<v Speaker 1>the big Heart times. All of them were listed as

0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:43.280
<v Speaker 1>defendants in this case, which was public and not bound

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:46.719
<v Speaker 1>by the protective order. That's the list that tear us saw.

0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:50.719
<v Speaker 1>So even though the court changed its mind and said

0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:53.920
<v Speaker 1>all those nonoth age head right holders didn't actually need

0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:56.799
<v Speaker 1>to be involved in the case, the list is out there.

0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Jason still has the original list, the one with head

0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:04.840
<v Speaker 1>right amounts, alongside the names. I've tried to get Jason

0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:07.759
<v Speaker 1>to give me his list over the phone in his

0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:12.240
<v Speaker 1>office at lunch. I've asked specifically about the Drummonds too.

0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:16.000
<v Speaker 1>If I if I could tell you, I might try to,

0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:21.000
<v Speaker 1>But I don't really know. I just don't know that number.

0:48:21.880 --> 0:48:24.000
<v Speaker 1>I've got it out of c D wrong, which is

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:29.840
<v Speaker 1>back in the day. UM, but I don't know the answer.

0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:33.800
<v Speaker 1>What happens if if you share that information, I'll probably

0:48:33.840 --> 0:48:36.440
<v Speaker 1>lose my bar lescens I asked if the Drummonds had

0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:39.319
<v Speaker 1>a lot. He wouldn't say. I asked if the number

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.760
<v Speaker 1>was only a few. No answer, And it did seem

0:48:42.800 --> 0:48:45.160
<v Speaker 1>like Jason wanted to tell me. I don't get it.

0:48:45.200 --> 0:48:49.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand why the management of these resources is

0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:55.960
<v Speaker 1>kept a secret from the people who are the beneficiaries. Right,

0:48:56.600 --> 0:49:00.600
<v Speaker 1>every other trust situation in the world. Right, your family trust. Right,

0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.680
<v Speaker 1>if you have a family trust, there'll be a trustee

0:49:04.360 --> 0:49:08.920
<v Speaker 1>who provides on demand and regularly and accounting for what

0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:11.440
<v Speaker 1>it is that they've been doing. Right, We've got here's

0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:14.160
<v Speaker 1>your money, this is your land. These are the other

0:49:14.239 --> 0:49:18.320
<v Speaker 1>things that we've been managing for you as your trustee, UM,

0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:22.799
<v Speaker 1>your stocks or whatever it is. This is how they've performed. Right.

0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Beneficiary is entitled to know that. This is the only

0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:33.120
<v Speaker 1>trust I know of where that information is a secret,

0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:37.520
<v Speaker 1>even from the beneficiary. Around the time I first started

0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:41.200
<v Speaker 1>asking about this, I filed the public records request. I

0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:43.480
<v Speaker 1>asked the Bureau of the Need Affairs for a list

0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:46.439
<v Speaker 1>of all the nonos head right holders and how many

0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:49.160
<v Speaker 1>shares each of them had. When I met with Jason,

0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:53.279
<v Speaker 1>that request had just been denied. The government said it

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:56.360
<v Speaker 1>would violate the privacy of non O head right holders

0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:59.560
<v Speaker 1>to disclose how many they had in the government, the

0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:02.480
<v Speaker 1>federal and it's great at this if they've got a

0:50:02.520 --> 0:50:05.680
<v Speaker 1>situation and there's lots of them in Indian country where

0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:10.360
<v Speaker 1>there's a resource that benefits the individuals but is managed

0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:13.719
<v Speaker 1>by the tribe. The federal government plays this game of well,

0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:15.920
<v Speaker 1>you're not the tribe, we can't talk to you. Well,

0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:18.120
<v Speaker 1>you're not the individuals, we can't talk to you. We

0:50:18.200 --> 0:50:20.880
<v Speaker 1>have this Privacy Act concern. Therefore, we can't give you

0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:23.200
<v Speaker 1>any information about this. This is what they're doing to

0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:25.279
<v Speaker 1>you and your FO. Your request for that information is

0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:34.839
<v Speaker 1>their m o. That's the way. That's the way they play.

0:50:35.760 --> 0:50:38.840
<v Speaker 1>I wasn't surprised when the government denied that for our request.

0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Everyone told me this would happen. I'm not the first

0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:44.520
<v Speaker 1>person to ask, but each time someone presses the b

0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:49.400
<v Speaker 1>i A, this privacy argument comes up. The Bureau of

0:50:49.400 --> 0:50:52.120
<v Speaker 1>Indian Affairs is the only one able to answer this

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:54.560
<v Speaker 1>for sure, but I want to let you know I

0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:57.799
<v Speaker 1>have found records about the Drummonds head rights. I've had

0:50:57.840 --> 0:51:00.359
<v Speaker 1>to go by what I've seen in old documents deep

0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:03.359
<v Speaker 1>in the National Archives. What I've found is a much

0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:06.719
<v Speaker 1>smaller number than those I originally heard. I've been able

0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:09.919
<v Speaker 1>to confirm only three fourths of one head right owned

0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:11.960
<v Speaker 1>across a couple of branches of the drum And family.

0:51:12.640 --> 0:51:16.880
<v Speaker 1>I haven't found any indication there may be more. But still,

0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:22.239
<v Speaker 1>when I started asking around, I've realized this feeling, this suspicion,

0:51:22.760 --> 0:51:26.560
<v Speaker 1>has been lurking for decades in Osage County, a deep

0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:29.480
<v Speaker 1>sense of distrust over the origins of the drum And

0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:32.959
<v Speaker 1>family's wealth. That a big cache of head rights must

0:51:32.960 --> 0:51:35.240
<v Speaker 1>be in the hands of the extended drumm And family,

0:51:35.800 --> 0:51:39.120
<v Speaker 1>a family that owns so much land, land once owned

0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:42.560
<v Speaker 1>by o Sage families. What was the source of that wealth?

0:51:43.320 --> 0:51:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Was it head rights or something else? This question it

0:51:54.120 --> 0:51:59.840
<v Speaker 1>took me across Oklahoma, across Texas, into people's homes, courthouse faults,

0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.880
<v Speaker 1>warehouses of records, to a sea of grass in the

0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:07.920
<v Speaker 1>middle of the prairie, through over a hundred years of history,

0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:10.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to tell you the story of the Drummonds

0:52:10.680 --> 0:52:13.239
<v Speaker 1>head right share, but I'm also going to tell you

0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:16.759
<v Speaker 1>about something else, Because once I started looking into head

0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.960
<v Speaker 1>rights and what I heard might be an unknown oil dynasty,

0:52:20.080 --> 0:52:23.279
<v Speaker 1>I realized this story wasn't what I thought. What I

0:52:23.360 --> 0:52:27.040
<v Speaker 1>found was another chapter of this country's history of white settlement.

0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:31.399
<v Speaker 1>After the forced removals and the land runs, something more

0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:34.680
<v Speaker 1>gradual than the murders of the Reign of Terror still

0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:38.239
<v Speaker 1>resulted in a massive transfer of wealth and land from

0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Native Americans to white people. It was an entire system

0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:45.920
<v Speaker 1>that puts certain people in positions of power, power that

0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:49.880
<v Speaker 1>could be used to gain wealth and influence for future generations,

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:52.560
<v Speaker 1>a system that some of the earliest Drummonds in Osage

0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:57.320
<v Speaker 1>County learned to operate and build businesses around. This story

0:52:57.560 --> 0:53:00.280
<v Speaker 1>is about that system in the place that she aped,

0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:04.360
<v Speaker 1>a place that's reckoning with that history today. It's a

0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:07.879
<v Speaker 1>story about the Drummonds and the Osage Nation, but it's

0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:11.520
<v Speaker 1>also a story about America, about the land and the

0:53:11.600 --> 0:53:16.360
<v Speaker 1>people who ended up with it. Next time on in Trust,

0:53:17.080 --> 0:53:20.120
<v Speaker 1>a clue left behind by one of the first Drummonds

0:53:20.120 --> 0:53:23.480
<v Speaker 1>in Osage County and what it reveals about their head right.

0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Share in Trust is a production of Bloomberg and I

0:53:29.480 --> 0:53:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Heart Media. It's reported and hosted by me Rachel Adams

0:53:33.719 --> 0:53:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Heard Additional reporting by Alison Edita Davis Land is our

0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:43.920
<v Speaker 1>senior producer. Samantha Story is our executive producer. Jeff Grocott

0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:49.080
<v Speaker 1>is our senior editor. Additional production by Victor Evayez, Production

0:53:49.160 --> 0:53:53.560
<v Speaker 1>support from Hilda de Carly. Sound engineering is by Blake Naples,

0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Additional editing by Francesca Leavy and Daniel Ferrara, fact checking

0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:01.840
<v Speaker 1>by Molly Nugent. Our theme music is by Laura Wortman.

0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Photography by Shane Brown. Bloomberg Digital is run by Jared

0:54:06.640 --> 0:54:10.719
<v Speaker 1>Standberg and Katie Boyce. This story wouldn't have been possible

0:54:10.800 --> 0:54:13.760
<v Speaker 1>without the research and reporting of a long list of others.

0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:18.200
<v Speaker 1>They include Shannon Shaw Duty and Louise Redcorn, The Osage News,

0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Jean Dennison in her book Colonial Entangleman, The Underground Reservation

0:54:23.680 --> 0:54:28.160
<v Speaker 1>by Terry P. Wilson, A Pipe for February by Charles H. Redcorn,

0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:32.279
<v Speaker 1>The Deaths of Sybil Bolton by Dennis mccaulloff Jr. And

0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Killers of the Flower Moon by David Grant. Additional thanks

0:54:36.760 --> 0:54:43.000
<v Speaker 1>to Linley Lynn, David Ingold, Evan Applegate, Devin Pendleton, Ariel Brown,

0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Jane Yeoman's, Eugene Resnick, Cynthia Hoffman, Frank Coleshaw, Jackie Kessler,

0:54:49.400 --> 0:54:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Bernadette Walker, Emily Ingleman, Michael Fraser, Thomas Houston, Stephanie Davidson, McKinnon,

0:54:55.960 --> 0:55:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Da Kaeper, Carly Snyder, Melissa Shadrick, Rakheetas, Luca Flynn mc roberts,

0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:05.799
<v Speaker 1>Robert Blow and Margaret Sutherland. You can email us at

0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:09.560
<v Speaker 1>podcasts at bloomberg dot net for a map, photos and

0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:13.680
<v Speaker 1>other information about this episode. Visit bloomberg dot com slash

0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:17.839
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