1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine your father, your brother, 2 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: your son dying in a ditch on the side of 3 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: the road, and somebody out there knows he's there but 4 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: does nothing. Those are allegations right now, But the alleged 5 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: perp is the well respected Attorney General South Dakota on 6 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: his way home from a political fundraiser. So what's justice? 7 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: Where is it? Will it ever happen? Beaver's cousin, Nick Nemick, 8 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: also identified the body. It just seems like the whole 9 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: the whole process was just put on the back burner, 10 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: and they could have got Victor up there a heck 11 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: of a lot sooner to take a statement or identify 12 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: a body or something. Beaver's wife also has concerns. How 13 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: can you not see someone walking down the road and 14 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: for no sirens to go off around here? Is highly 15 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: unusual because anytime there's an accident or anything. Why did 16 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: my husband lie in a ditch for twenty two hours? 17 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: Why were no alarms sounded off over here when the 18 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: accident happened. I mean, we have no answers yet, and 19 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: right now I'm just raw and I just lost the 20 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: man of my life. I can really stand even hearing it, Todd, 21 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: you were just hearing our friend at Kilo Land. Yes, 22 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: that was Dan Santilla speaking with that victor's widow. With 23 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of it all. 24 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: First of all, James Shelnutt, twenty seven years Metro major 25 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: case detective squad officer, now lawyer at Shelnutt Law Firm 26 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: dot com renounced like hijras joining me out of the 27 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: Atlanta Jurisdiction. Doctor Angela Arnold and Angela Arnold, MD dot com. 28 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: Greg Smith, special Deputy Sheriff Johnson County Sheriff's Office in 29 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,559 Speaker 1: Kansas and the executive director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation 30 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: at Keltse's Army dot com. Please check that out. It's critical. 31 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of 32 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Now he's the star 33 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. Joe Scott 34 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: has covered literally thousands of death scenes. I don't mean 35 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: covered them, I mean investigated them. He is a death investigator. 36 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: But first to Sierra Gillespie, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter, 37 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: I don't understand exactly what they're saying happened the attorney general, 38 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: who is essentially the top cop in the state. Every 39 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: state has one, the federal government has one. So the 40 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: top cop for South Dakota, it's on his way home 41 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: from a political fundraiser. And what's the allegation, Sierra, what happened? 42 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: So what hes happened is he tended to Pier that's 43 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: the state capital. And you've headed along US Highway fourteen 44 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: east of Highmore, South Dakota, which is a very small town. Well, 45 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something, Sarah, I gotta tell you something. 46 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: You know, I just took an RV trip with the 47 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: twins and my husband. We went from Atlanta all the 48 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: way across the country to Mount Rushmore, which is you know, 49 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: is in the Dakotas, all the way to Yellowstone, the 50 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: Titas and back. So we went exactly where we're talking about. 51 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: And there are really long stretches where you don't see 52 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: anybody or anything. There's not a pullover on the interstate nothing. 53 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to tell you that, not for the 54 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: RV trip purposes, Sierra, but when you're out there, there 55 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: may be a long stretch road where you don't see anybody. 56 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: For a while. Okay, now I'm sorry. What were you saying? Yeah, 57 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So I even went on Google Maps 58 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: yesterday to kind of look at me. I love it 59 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: when you do that, by the way, so I can 60 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: understand the time. It's actually pretty important because I don't 61 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: know how this got laid in a ditch for a day, 62 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: twenty two hours and nobody noticed. So what did you learn, Sierra? Exactly. 63 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: So the area that I was looking at, there aren't 64 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: even very many homes. I mean occasionally you'll pass like 65 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: a farm or something along the way, but it's not 66 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: a very populated area. So at the time the Attorney 67 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: General says that he was driving, it's ten thirty at night. 68 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: There aren't street lights or anything in that area, so 69 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: it's probably pretty dark. And let me let me just 70 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: hold that in, hold on, let me hold that thought, 71 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: you know. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. 72 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: I remember when I was at cnnh Lynn for so 73 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: many years, we were investigating the death of a little 74 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: boy and we went down to Florida. Well, he disappeared. 75 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: His body's never been found, but we went to Florida 76 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: to cover it live, and one of my New York 77 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: producers was totally freaked out because there were not street lights. 78 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: And I remember saying, Norm, this is the way most 79 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: of the country lives. You live in New York City. 80 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: It's not like that. Once you get out of Manhattan 81 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: and you leave the city of New York, it's not 82 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: like that. There's not street lights. He thought something was 83 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: actually wrong. He thought, why aren't the street lights working? 84 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: I said, Norm, there are no street lights. You're in 85 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: the middle of a country. But when you're out there 86 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: like that, I'm not making an excuse for the hit 87 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: and run. But what I'm saying is I wondered to 88 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: have anything to do with the fact that no one 89 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: saw the body of this father and husband for so long. Yeah. Yeah, 90 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: it could very well be Nancy. And these are long, 91 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: as you had mentioned in Sierra had mentioned, these are 92 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: long stretches of rural road. And he was this actually 93 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: occurred on US Highway fourteen and looking at a picture 94 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: of it right now that Jack pulled up for me, Yeah, 95 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: I don't see anything but green fields way in the distance. 96 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: I think it's see a war tower and uh, telephone 97 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: poles go ahead, Yeah, And this is farming country, Nancy. 98 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: And these roads are kind of built up, if you will, 99 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: all right, and on either side there are ditches. If 100 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: if you look at some of these images, all you 101 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: have are kind of agricultural fields where they probably grow 102 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: things like wheat and barley and all that sort of thing. Well, 103 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: they have to they have to have those ditches right 104 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: there in order to drain for you know, for water runoff. 105 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: And this is word thinks. So if you hit an 106 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: object on that road, whether it be a human or 107 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: an animal or something, it's gonna get kicked off road 108 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: and it will be beneath your field of view by 109 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: probably three to four feet. So you're just driving down 110 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: the road, you're not gonna see anything downe on that ditch. 111 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: Does that confirm what you learned? Sierra Gillespie, Yes, it does. So. 112 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: Basically what he said is that he was driving along 113 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: the road and he hits something. The Attorney General, right, 114 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: Jason Roundsburg, forty four years old, big, big, big in politics, 115 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: on his way home from a big time political fundraiser. 116 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: All right, So he's on his way home from that 117 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: en route to Pierre, the capitol, And what time and 118 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: night was it Sierrah. So it was about ten thirty 119 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: at night when this crash happened. Have he been drinking? 120 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: For Pete's sake? He didn't know he hit a man. 121 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: He says he had not been drinking before. He was 122 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: not drinking and driving. He did not drink after. Huh. Well, 123 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: I guess we'll never know because it wasn't called in. Okay, 124 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to jump the gun. Go ahead, Okay, 125 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: So technically he did call in, but he reported that 126 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: he hit a deer. He says he got out and 127 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: used like the flashlight on his phone to look around 128 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: in the area to see like what it was, but 129 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: he says he wasn't able to find anything at all. 130 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: So he actually was in contact with the local sheriff 131 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: and borrowed his vehicle to drive back to Pierre. Okay, 132 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. So this guy, 133 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: the top cop of South Dakota, is coming home from 134 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: a fancy fundraiser and you're telling me nobody it was dry, 135 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: nobody had a drink. Okay, I'll just go with that. 136 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: And he hits a person and doesn't know what a hit. 137 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: He calls sheriffs and says he hit a deer and 138 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: then what happen and yep, so he says he hit 139 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: the deer. He says he got out and looked for it, 140 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: didn't find anything, and the sheriff came to that area. 141 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: His vehicle was no longer drive a bull, so the 142 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: sheriff allowed him to borrow his vehicle. Did the sheriff 143 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: look for the deer? I guess, but I apparently nothing 144 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: was found at that time. I don't know that the 145 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: sheriff looked. I don't know that. Fact Climb Stories with 146 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the top cop, 147 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: the Attorney General for the state of South Dakota, who 148 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: is coming home from a big time fundraiser. I'm being 149 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: told by Sierra Gillespie that nobody had a drop. It 150 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: was dry. I find that really hard to believe, but 151 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: I'll go with it, Siara, just for now. And he 152 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: rides over smashes into the victim, Joe Beever, but calls 153 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: nine one one and says he hit a deer or 154 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: he thinks he hit a deer. I don't know how 155 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: you could head on collide with somebody and you don't 156 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: know what you hit. Take a listen to this. My 157 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: fears that the authorities were trying to get their ducts 158 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: in a roll before they putting that as a priority 159 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: over identifying positively identifying the victim. Approximately twenty two hours 160 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: from the time of the accident, for the time were 161 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: identified of the body, and ten hours from the time 162 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: my brother gave him the heads up on who the 163 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: dead pedestrian the dead out on the highway probably was. 164 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: It seemed like it just took him a done long 165 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: time to follow up on anything. You were hearing our 166 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: friends at drg Inn and they're speaking to Nicknamic, relative 167 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: of the dead victim. You know what I hate, James 168 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: Shelnup twenty seven years Metro major case now lawyer, When 169 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: regular people like my family are doing battle with those 170 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: more powerful, more wealthy, or more influential than they are, 171 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: and you can't get answers and you get the run around. 172 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my dad, you know, James. My husband 173 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: travels a lot for his work, and he was just 174 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: in Florida working and I thought, when I hadn't heard 175 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: from him for like seven or eight hours, I thought, 176 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: what if he's been in a crash, and how would 177 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: they even know to call me or contact me. I 178 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: got so worried, and I think about this guy, Joe Beaver, 179 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: and did the pain in that woman's voice talking about 180 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: he was the love of her life and he laid 181 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: there in a ditch for twenty two hours. And now 182 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: nothing's happening with the ag that ran them down and 183 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: said it was a deer. I mean, the power, the 184 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: power dichotomy here is very upsetting to me. What do 185 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: you think, Yeah, it's bothersome, you know, And in South Dakota, 186 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: with it being less populated, it's a lot more of 187 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: a closely knit communities. And say where you may have 188 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: four or five times the number of law enforcement officers 189 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: or prosecutors or other people in law enforcement. You know, 190 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: this is even a smaller community out and I've been 191 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: out that way and it is a much smaller area, 192 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: much less populated area. You know, I don't buy what 193 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: this guy's saying. You know, I've worked for the past 194 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: twenty years, you know, in our practice investigating autostrophic accidents, 195 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: fatality accidents, pedestrian accidents, and we've had several times where 196 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: someone who has killed one of our clients said, hey, 197 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: I thought ahead a deer or I thought ahead a dog. 198 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: And when you go back and look at it, and 199 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: you start looking at the stretch of roadway where this 200 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: was a long stretch of roadway, you start looking at 201 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: the factors as far as you know, nothing impeding view. 202 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 1: You know there's it starts to add up to me, 203 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 1: you know, looking at it from an investigative standpoint, that 204 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: he had plenty of time to perceive what he had hit. 205 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: And even if he wasn't sure, the reports say that 206 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: there was only eight inch tall grass on the side 207 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: of the roadway four ways, and it should have been 208 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: fairly easy to locate a dead victim being on the 209 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: side of the road. To Greg Smith joining me, a 210 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: special Deputy Sheriff Johnson County Sheriff's Office in Kansas, and 211 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: he's the executive director of the Kelsey Smith Foundation Kelsey's 212 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: Army dot com, And I really urge you to go 213 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: to that website, Kelsey's Army dot Com. Hey, Greg, just 214 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: thinking about when I've hit something, and I've covered so 215 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: many the hic and or homicide cases, I'm actually slow 216 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: down when I drive, believe it or not, because usually 217 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: I'm flying like a bat out of h double el 218 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: No matter where I'm going, But when I'm in the car, 219 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: I really take it easy. I hit a dog once 220 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: I was coming off the Interstate. I turned so I 221 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: was going fairly slowly. I was come out of a 222 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: red light, turned left off the interstate, and a dog 223 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: ran out. He belonged to a service station gas station owner, 224 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: and he usually stayed at the gas station and ran 225 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: across the street. I was so upset, and I saw 226 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: the dog, but it was too late. It's like he 227 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: ran straight into my car and I got out. I 228 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: went running to try to find somebody to help me 229 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: save the dog, and I happened to find the gas 230 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: station owner. It was his dog, and okay. Then another 231 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: time I hit a squirrel that out in front of me. 232 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: But both times I saw what happened both times. How 233 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: can you hit a person and you're hitting in front, 234 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: You've got your lights on, probably your bright How can 235 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: you not see it was a person? Help me? You're 236 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: the deputy sheriff, for Pete's sake. Well, it depends. I mean, 237 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: there's so much that we don't know about what happened here. 238 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: I mean, reportedly mister Beaver was walking. I've heard reports 239 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: he was on the side of the road. I've heard 240 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: reports he was in the road. We don't know if 241 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: what his condition was, had he been drinking. Why do 242 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: I care? He's not driving drunk. Why would I even 243 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: think be concerned about whether he was drinking. He's dead. 244 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with drinking and walking as as far 245 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: as I know, Greg Smith, Well, it is against the wall. 246 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: But if there is, I'm telling my husband to sit 247 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: down right now, quit walking because the point is I'm 248 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: not I'm not blaming mister beaver, but what it kind 249 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: of sounds like you are what it's his actions caused him? 250 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: What if he stepped in front of the car unexpectedly 251 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: rather than what is being reported here. We just don't know. 252 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: We don't have enough infant, Greg Smith, I like you. 253 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: You and I go way, way, way back. But are 254 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: you actually trying to tell me they could be the 255 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: victim's fault. He got mowed down by this guy and 256 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: then laid in the ditch twenty two hours. For all 257 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: I know, he could have been saved, Greg, How do 258 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: I know he died immediately he laid in that ditch 259 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: and die. That's a heck of a way to go. 260 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: I don't disagree with what you're saying, Nancy. I'm just 261 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: saying there are so many factors that we have to 262 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: consider before we can save with absolute conviction that this 263 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: is a crime, that this needs to be a conviction. 264 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. I'm okay. Let me ask you 265 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: a lightning round of questions. Let's pretend you're on cross examination, 266 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: Greg Smith, you poor thing. Okay. Number one, isn't it 267 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: true that this was a public road? Yes? No, ye? 268 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: And isn't it true that on public roads, Greg Smith, 269 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: people in general have the right to walk as a pedestrian. 270 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: It may not be as a general rule, yes, okay. 271 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: And isn't it true, Greg Smith that generally speaking, pedestrians 272 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: have the right away? Yes? Okay, Greg Smith. Have you 273 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: ever got behind a jogger or a bicyclist and being 274 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: irritated because they're going so slow? Yep? Okay? Did you 275 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: run them down? Greg Smith? I'll leave him to dine 276 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: in the ditch. Nope? Okay, that's good to know. Now. 277 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: Isn't it true, Greg Smith that the victim in this 278 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: case was hit by the front of the suspect's car. 279 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: The ag the top cop Jason Rounsberg, and isn't it 280 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: also true that he would have had his lights on 281 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 1: as he was driving at night. I don't know. Okay, 282 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: let's assume he had his lights on because he was 283 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: driving at night. Are you telling me that you think 284 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: he didn't see he hit a person? I don't know 285 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: that either. Very wise, ma'am. Okay, Joe Skuy Morgan, wait, 286 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: hold on, Joe skuy before I get to you on 287 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: the whether he could have lived and died in that 288 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: ditch after surviving for several hours. James shell Nutt. Greg 289 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: Smith is being very circumspect, and I respect that I do, 290 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: but it's gonna be a cold day in Hubl that 291 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't think this guy saw he hit a person. No, 292 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: look at Nancy. If you just go back just to 293 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: some basics time and speak calculations. I'm not about to 294 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: put on a math class because I think you want 295 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: your listeners to stay awake. Yeah, please don't start math. 296 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: I'm having hard enough time with pre algebra with the twins. 297 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: But let's just talk about some basics. Okay. A car 298 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: travels about two Hope you're listening, Greg Smith, go ahead, 299 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: James shell Nutt. First of all, you want to look 300 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: at a human human factor reaction time, and you know 301 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: most acts that reconstruction to shoes somewhere between one point 302 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: five and three seconds as the amount of time it 303 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: takes for someone to perceive something and then react in 304 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: a car wrex, So let's just say that we've got 305 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 1: three seconds there, it takes another two seconds. At sixty 306 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: nine seventy miles an hour, which is what this guy 307 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: was calculated as traveling, he would have had four or 308 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: five seconds looking at this object to tell whether or 309 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: not sa deer one one thousand two, one thousand three, 310 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: one thousand four, one thousand five, one thousand. I just 311 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: can't fathom that within four to five seconds I'm staring 312 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: at this object, he wouldn't know the difference between a 313 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: fear and a human thing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 314 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: Guys against thank you for being with us here at 315 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: Fox Nation in Serious X one eleven. I do have 316 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: to agree with Greg Smith joining us at Kelsey's Army 317 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: dot com. This is not about convicting anybody, It's really not. 318 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: This is about finding the truth. And in my mind, 319 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: there's no way he could have not seen what he hit. 320 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: There's absolutely no way if he had on his lights. Now, 321 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: it's my understanding. Sierra Gillespie Roundsberg was driving from a 322 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: fundraiser in Redfield to his home one hundred and ten 323 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: miles away on Saturday night, and he did have on 324 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: his lights. At the very worst. The victim was walking 325 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: in the road. How do you not see that at 326 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: a distance or even up close? And how do you 327 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: think you hit a dear Jackie, I want to before 328 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: I go to Siera, I want to circle back to 329 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: our salt one listen to Dan Santella with Kilo Landis. 330 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: Beaver's cousin, Nicknamic, also identified the body. It just seems 331 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: like the whole the whole process was just put on 332 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 1: the back burner, and they could have got Victor up 333 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: there a heck of a lot sooner to take a 334 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: statement or identify a body or something. Beaver's wife also 335 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: has concerns. How can you not see someone walking down 336 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: the road and for no sirens to go off around 337 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: here is highly unusual because anytime there's an accident or anything. 338 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: Why did my husband lie in a ditch for twenty 339 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: two hours? Why were no alarms sounded off over here 340 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: when the accident happened? I mean, we have no answers yet, 341 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: And right now I'm just raw and I just lost 342 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: the of my life. That hurts me so bad to 343 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: hear her, to hear her speak about the pain she's suffering. 344 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: To think of her husband lying in a ditch for 345 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: twenty two hours. What if he was alive for half 346 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: that time, or any of that time, it could have 347 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: been saved. But he lied that he lay there and died. 348 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: What was he thinking about? Was he unconscious? I don't know, guys. 349 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: We are hearing more about the attorney general. It is 350 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: said that he does drink occasionally, but makes it a 351 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: practice not to drink at political events, according to another 352 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: state senator. Now you know how I feel about politicians. 353 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: You can take that with a box of salt. I 354 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: did not see him with anything but a coke. The 355 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: worst he's got is a traffic ticket for speeding, seat 356 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: about violation and proper exhaust and muffler system. That's means 357 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: nothing to me. That he does not have a prior conviction, 358 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: that means nothing to me. All that matters to me 359 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: is what happened that night. Back to Cierre Gillespie, Crime 360 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, what else do we know. 361 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: So after all of this happens and he reports the 362 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: situation that he claims he hit a deer, he heads 363 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: back to Pierre. Everything is relatively fine, I guess he 364 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: arrives at midnight. But the next day, the Attorney General, 365 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: Jason Raunsberg, says he heads back to the scene, hopefully 366 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: to gather his vehicle all of that, and that's when 367 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: he says he discovers that there is a body there. 368 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: That's also when he says he reports it right away 369 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: and says this person was clearly deceased. I'm calling the 370 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: authorities to Joseph Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 371 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: Joe Scott based on what we know right now, what 372 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: happened to the victim when he was hit. Well, if 373 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: you take a look at the vehicle, which I've seen 374 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: the images of the vehicle to day, damage to the vehicle, 375 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: as you had mentioned, it is on the front of 376 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: the vehicle and on the right side. Uh, it appears 377 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: as though that we have we have an incident where 378 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: he was struck by the leading right bumper of the 379 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: vehicle and then cast up onto the windshield, which is 380 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: very common. Uh. And then he rolls off of the 381 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: of the vehicle into this ditch, you know, where he 382 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: came to rest. Now, there's a variety of different types 383 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: of injuries that we can talk about relative to this, 384 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: but at you know, at autopsy, you know, one of 385 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: the things that we're going to be looking for something 386 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: that that that our listeners can remember, something called bumper marks. 387 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: And you'll see these on the shins and knees and 388 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: sometimes the upper legs, depended upon how the victim reacts. 389 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: The pedestrian victim reacts to an oncoming vehicle. If they're 390 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: standing erect, there's a high probability that you'll have what 391 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: are referred to as bilateral or twin fractures in the 392 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: lower extremities. And then you're gonna have shoulder injuries and also, 393 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: and this is the big one, you're gonna have closed 394 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: head injuries. So I think, going back to what you 395 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: had said, one of the things I'm interested in is 396 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: at autopsy, did this guy die immediately upon impact or 397 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: did he kind of languish there where he's literally bleeding out, 398 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: And that's something that we can determine it autopsy, you know, 399 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: after the results are in and find out also if 400 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: he's impaired in any way, you know what does his 401 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: toxicology show? And of course with the Attorney General, we're 402 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: not going to know what his toxicology showed because he 403 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: didn't get tested for almost twenty four hours after listen, Nancy, 404 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: anything he may have had on board we're talking about 405 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: going to this party and whatnot, it's already metabolized, it's 406 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: already gone through his system. So there's no you can't 407 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: unring the bell at that point. So you have to 408 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: think about was he impaired in some other way and 409 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: one other thing? And I'll shut my mouth, but i 410 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, he's on a long trip. You had 411 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: mentioned this. This is a long way to drive. He's 412 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere. I'm not so much 413 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: worried if he consumed alcohol at that party. You know 414 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about, was he distracted by his phone 415 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: in any way? And that is something they can go 416 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: back and take a look at, Nancy. They need to 417 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: get their hands on that phone and see what this 418 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: guy was doing at precisely that time when he was 419 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: supposed to be in transit in this vehicle. Was he 420 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: distracted in any way and listening to everything you're saying 421 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: and to you Greg Smith's Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County 422 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office in Kansas. It's going to be hard to 423 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: pinpoint the exact time of the crash because we only 424 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: have his word for it when he called nine one one. 425 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: But I heard Joscott Morgan say, typically with a case 426 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: like this, based on where the damage is to the 427 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: Attorney General's car, the victim would have gone up on 428 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: his windshield. How could you think that was a deer. Yeah, 429 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: there's obviously an impact on the windshield, so that would 430 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: be one thing. And I have some of the same 431 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: concerns that were just mentioned. My first thought was, was 432 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: he distracted by his cell phone? It's very common anymore 433 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: in accidents, much more common. It's become as common as 434 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: alcohol or drug involvement, and as far as the means 435 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: of impairment. The other thing. He ten thirty at night, 436 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: he had a day at work, he went to a fundraiser. 437 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 1: He's on his way back. It's one hundred and ten 438 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: mile drive. Did he goes off and that may be 439 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 1: why he didn't see what he hit until it was hit. 440 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: That's a good point. He may not have seen it 441 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: if he was sleepy. There's just so much that we 442 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: don't know, which makes the whole thing frustrating. I mean, 443 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: I played around just a little bit with the skid 444 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: marks that they reported, some two hundred feet of skid 445 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: marks in that. Now there's a lot of factors I 446 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know the drag factor on the road. 447 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 1: I don't know breaking efficiency. I want board or your 448 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: listeners with all the board. I love every word you're saying. 449 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: Did you say there are two hundred feet of skid marks? 450 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: That's what I read in one report. But on an 451 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 1: average road, two hundred feet of skid marks calculates out 452 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: to about sixty four, sixty five, sixty six miles an hour. 453 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: So we're not talking the concessive rate of speed here, 454 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: but two one hundred feet of skid marks. That tells 455 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: me he either saw the victim for two hundred feet 456 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 1: and was hitting the brakes, or he hit the victim 457 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: and hit the brakes for two hundred feet one or 458 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: the other. And that's what we don't know because the 459 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: report doesn't say were they before the impact site? And 460 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: again we may never know where the impact side. Or 461 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: there are some things you can look for. It's It's 462 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: not uncommon for pedestrian the tip by a car to 463 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: literally come out of their shoes near the impact point. 464 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: That happens a lot. I don't can't really explain the 465 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: math behind it, but it happens a lot. I've seen 466 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: it a lot in my career, so that would be 467 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: one thing. You know, there may be there may be 468 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: some kind of blood trace or blood remains that were 469 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: on the road at the point of it back where 470 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: there may not, you know, I just I don't know. 471 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: I just don't have enoughing form crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 472 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: we are bringing you the latest on a very very 473 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: troubling death. Dad husband Joe Beaver, found dead on the 474 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: side of the road. Apparently the top cop, the Attorney 475 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: General for the state of South Dakota, was driving about 476 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: one hundred and ten mile drive that night and plowed down. 477 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: Beaver called him on one said he hit a deer, 478 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: and it wasn't until nearly a day later that mister 479 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: Beaver's body was found. Sierra Gillespie correct me if I'm wrong. 480 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: From what I have learned, the body of Joseph Beaver 481 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: was discovered in the grass next to the crash site. 482 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: How could you miss that? Is that correct? Yes, Nancy, 483 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: that is correct. It was discovered in the ditch, so 484 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure how far from the actual crash 485 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: that was, but relatively close in that area. Again, we 486 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: are hearing that the Attorney General had not been drinking, 487 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: but as Joe Scott Morgan pointed out, we'll never know 488 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: because it took a full day for the body to 489 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: be found and for him to be tested for alcohol 490 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: or anything else. Was he texting? Was he asleep? You know? 491 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta 492 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. When I hear 493 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: the widow speaking, the power dynamic is very upsetting to me. 494 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: Here she is this woman and she's basically taking on 495 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: the South Dakota government, the very highest echelons of government. 496 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: I don't like it. Well, and Nancy, look at all 497 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: of it, Look at all of the experts you have 498 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: on your show today, and everyone has set there's not 499 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: enough evidence. There are so many holes in this story, 500 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: so we can't even imagine what she's going through. She doesn't, 501 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, she doesn't have a chance 502 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: of ever knowing the whole truth. Guys, take a listen 503 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: to the governor. Last night, at about ten thirty pm 504 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: in Hyde County, the Attorney General was involved in a 505 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: crash while driving on US Highway fourteen just west of Hymore. 506 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: There was a fatality and law enforcement is working on 507 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: identifying the deceased and notifying the family. South Dakota Highway 508 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: Patrol will run the investigation, and the Department of Public 509 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: Safety Secretary Craig Price will oversee that and report directly 510 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: to me. You are hearing the governor speak out, Christy 511 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: Nome right there. They claim that they are appointing an 512 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: independent investigator. Investigator, what is that, Sierra Gillespie, please explain. 513 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: So I also saw in a different report too that 514 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: they're bringing in some investigators from North Dakota. And occasionally 515 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: they'll do this because obviously the Attorney General of South 516 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: Dakota has a lot of connections within South Dakota. So 517 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: sometimes that there's a high profile case like this, I'm 518 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: sure some of your experts can speak better to this 519 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: than I can, but they'll bring in like outside investigators 520 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: or things like that, just to make sure that it's 521 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: not biased in any way. Well, we're learning that the 522 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: Attorney general there Roundsburg Sandy discovered Beaver's body in the 523 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: grass just off the shoulder of the road, just off 524 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: the shoulder of the road. This is reminding me of 525 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: a case that I watched live, every minute of it. 526 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: It was one of the very first death by vehicle 527 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: cases that hit hit the headlines. Anyway, the defendant's name 528 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: was Shauntey Mallard. Listen or seth any further inside of 529 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: the commission or attempt or an immediate flight from the 530 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: commission or attempt she committed or attempted to commit and 531 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: act clearly dangerous to human life to it transported grad 532 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: Vias to her home, who who was seriously injured and 533 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: lodged in her car, were lodged in the wind shoulder car, 534 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: and she seated to him in her gage, which prevented 535 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: him from receiving medical care, which caused the death of 536 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: grave basis paragraph two. And it started to present again 537 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: in two say forth to the defended in the county 538 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: tier and state of courseetn on or about the twenty 539 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: sixth day of October two thousand and one, and then 540 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: and there intentionally and normally commit or attempt to commit 541 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: a malony. Now, in that case, Shaunte Mallard from Fort Worth, 542 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: Texas was convicted and sentenced to fifty years behind bars 543 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: because of her role on the death of thirty seven 544 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: year old man Gregory Glenn Biggs. Chante Mallard was driving 545 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: along she hit Biggs. He was lodged on her windowshill. 546 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: She didn't claim she didn't know what to do, think 547 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 1: about it, just call nine one one on your cell phone. Instead, 548 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: she drives home over a mile with him on the windowshill, 549 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: parks at her closed garage while he dies. Now, it 550 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: has been said that she had been drinking, but so 551 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: much time past, we don't really know, you know, in 552 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: that case. Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, I'm just having 553 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: a really hard time understanding why the Attorney General did 554 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: not see a man on his windshield or at the 555 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: very front of his vehicle. Why did he say he 556 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: thought it was a deer, you know, again, absent more information. 557 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: What I'm thinking is is that you know, when you 558 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: think about striking, I've hit many deer, you know, out 559 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: here in the rural South where I live. There like cockroaches, 560 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: they're everywhere, and so you hit this deer, you don't 561 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: expect to see a human being in the road. So 562 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: I think that one of the things your mind immediately 563 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: flies to in this is, well, I hit a deer, 564 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: you know, and in a flash. Maybe that's what happens. 565 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: There are a lot of deer in South Dakota. Maybe 566 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: that's what he was thinking at the time. Right in 567 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: front of your car. You can't see to your headlight. 568 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: You can't see that far, Joe Scott. You can't see 569 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: a person at your headlight of your car. Well, this 570 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: goes back to what we were saying. Was he distracted 571 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: in some way or did this guy just step out 572 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: of the shadows and into the path of the oncoming car, 573 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: Because I think that your reaction time is going to 574 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: be diminished greatly if the guy kind of stepped. We've 575 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: already said there's no street lights out there. It's a rural, 576 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: farming community. So if this guy is just standing on 577 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: the edge of the road, maybe it's going to how 578 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: to flag this guy down. I'd like to know why 579 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: he was out there in this kind of desolate region. 580 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why he had a problem with his car. 581 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: That's why he was on foot. That's what happened. That's 582 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,439 Speaker 1: why the victim was on foot. Guys, take a listen 583 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: to Alicia Garcia. Kota. South Dakota Attorney General Jason Rounsberg 584 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: issued a statement late tonight about the car accident he 585 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: was involved in this past Saturday, where he apparently struck 586 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: and killed a man. According to Rounsburg, after the collision, 587 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: he called nine to one one immediately telling the High 588 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office that he had hit a deer. But 589 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: the next morning, fifty five year old Joseph Beaver of 590 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: Hymore was found dead at the scene. Rounsberg said tonight 591 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: that after the collision, he immediately stopped to his vehicle 592 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: to investigate. He said he could not see what he 593 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: had hit, but saw pieces of his vehicle laying on 594 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: the roadway. Rounsberg remained at the scene while the sheriff 595 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: surveyed the area. Rounsberg's car was towed from the scene, 596 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: and he drove the sheriff's car back to Pier. The 597 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: next day, Roundsberg returned to the scene of the accident 598 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: and found mister Beaver's body in the grass just off 599 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 1: the roadway. According to him, on the night of the crash, 600 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: Roundsberg had been in Redfield for the Spink County Lincoln 601 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: Day Dinner. Rounsberg says he did not consume any alcohol. 602 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: Jo Scott, what do we know about the condition of 603 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: the Attorney General Jason Roundsberg's vehicle? Yeah, just you know, 604 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: to kind of reiterate this, when they examined the vehicle 605 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: and our listeners can go in and see this vehicle. 606 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: Their significant damage to the right side of the windshield 607 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: and also to the front right aspect of the vehicle, 608 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: you know, where the headlights. What did you say about 609 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: the windshield? The windshield is actually kind of caved in, 610 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: if you will. And when just think about this, Nancy, 611 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: you're traveling, do I need to think anymore? Seriously? His 612 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: windshield is caved in and he didn't know it was 613 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: a person. Okay, well it's there any way around that. 614 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: The windshield is caved in, and he's saying he thought 615 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: it was a deer. Yes, okay, Shellnutt. Nancy, you know, 616 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: if you look at whether or not this acts that happened, 617 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, and he hit this victim and then hit 618 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: the brakes, or whether or not he hit the brakes 619 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: and hit the victim. If you go back and look 620 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: at the reports. The victim has a cousin named Nick Niemeck, 621 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: and Nick is a state lawmaker out in South Dakota. 622 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: Nick says that he went to the scene and that 623 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: there were two hundred feet of skid marks, and at 624 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: the end of those two hundred feet of skid marks 625 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: there was blood That would have been consistent with the 626 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: Attorney General hitting the brakes, then hitting the victim, and 627 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: then the victim flying off the car and landing on 628 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: the side of the roadway. If what he is saying 629 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: is accurate, it's clear that he hit the brakes and 630 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: then hit the victim. And did you read did you 631 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: learn also that the relatives of the victim told they 632 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: could not take pictures of the scene. I did, and 633 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: they were told they couldn't take pictures of the scene. 634 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: And then he Nick Nemick then went to the toeyard 635 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: where the Attorney General's carl was being stored and was 636 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: told he couldn't see it. Now, that's not abnormal, but 637 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: in the same token, it appears that after things got 638 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,720 Speaker 1: looked at that next day, they actually shut the roadway 639 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 1: authority shut the roadway down and then went back into 640 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: a lot more thorough investigation, and so I look for 641 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: there to be a lot of information coming out of 642 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: that investigation by the time of decisions made whether or 643 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: not to prosecute. Okay, I'm just gonna drop it right there. 644 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,439 Speaker 1: Let's see if justice un falls. Nancy Grace Crime Story, 645 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye, fro