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Speaker 1: Well, Hello Angels fans, and welcome back to Halo Territory,

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Speaker 1: where we'll be discussing all things Angels. On today's show,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the Tyler Skaggs wrongful

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Speaker 1: death suit against the Angels. Joining me is my co

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Speaker 1: host Mark Trumbo. Welcome back. And we're also joined by

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Speaker 1: Sam Blum, the fine young writer for The Athletic who

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Speaker 1: will be a regular contributor to the podcast. And as

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Speaker 1: many of you know, Sam covered this trial for a

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Speaker 1: solid three months in the Santa Ana Courthouse. Sam, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, and yeah, congrats on this new

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Speaker 2: venture for you guys. I think be really cool for

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Speaker 2: ancheles Man. So yeah, I'm excited to chip in when

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Speaker 2: I can thank you.

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Speaker 1: Well, we all know Tyler Skaggs died in a Texas

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Speaker 1: hotel room on July first, twenty nineteen. I was with

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Speaker 1: the Angels in Texas when that happened, and that day,

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Speaker 1: along with the day Nick Adenhart died, we're two of

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Speaker 1: the darkest days I've had on this feat and very

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Speaker 1: challenging just covering that whole story in the wake of

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Speaker 1: Tyler's death. But you know, we had a three month trial,

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Speaker 1: tons of testimony, often contentious at times, and right at

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Speaker 1: the end of three months, literally hours before a verdict

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Speaker 1: was going to come down and favor of the Skagg's family,

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Speaker 1: we had a settlement. First of all, say that what

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Speaker 1: was it like being inside the courtroom for for almost

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Speaker 1: three months?

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Speaker 3: Is this your experience?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like in some ways, you know, when

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Speaker 2: you kind of subtract this actual subject matter and the

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Speaker 2: reason you're there for me, it was like it was

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Speaker 2: almost exciting to be a part of it because it's

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Speaker 2: it feels like it's it's really important. Mean, it's really

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Speaker 2: important stuff. I mean, you know, you're you are, you know,

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Speaker 2: navigating a very very delicate situation. You're also you know,

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Speaker 2: trying to be fair. You're trying to you know, not

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Speaker 2: take a pre to one side or the other. But

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Speaker 2: you're also kind of like a juror in some ways

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Speaker 2: where you're sitting and listening to everything and you're making

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Speaker 2: your own judgments about what you're hearing. So it's kind

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Speaker 2: of that balance. And so, you know, sitting and hearing

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Speaker 2: about the details that led up to Tyler's death.

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Speaker 3: It was it was difficult because it's.

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Speaker 2: You realize how many chances along the way this organization

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Speaker 2: maybe had to to stop this, and you know how

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Speaker 2: many chances maybe Tyler had along the way too, So it's.

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Speaker 3: There's nuance to it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, my biggest takeaway was this was just

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Speaker 2: a failure by the organization time and again to to

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Speaker 2: you know, put people in the position where this eventually

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Speaker 2: did happen. And you know, ultimately, when there's a settlement,

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Speaker 2: there's no liability. The Angels won't face liability for this.

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Speaker 2: That was because they settled. I think they recognized they

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Speaker 2: were about to lose. But you know, the jury came out,

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Speaker 2: the jurors came out and said that they would have

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Speaker 2: found for the Skag's family. I think, you know, maybe

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Speaker 2: not to the extent that it seemed like right before

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Speaker 2: they did settle, But you know, a judgment is a judgment,

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Speaker 2: and I think was going to you know, go against

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Speaker 2: the Angels, and you know, having sat there for three months,

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Speaker 2: I felt like that that made sense to me.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: Eric Kay, the former media relations official with the Angels,

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Speaker 1: was sentenced to twenty two years in federal prison for

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Speaker 1: providing the ventno lace pill that sure is ruled in

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Speaker 1: Texas that killed Tyler Skaggs. What did this case boil

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Speaker 1: down to? Sam?

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Speaker 2: I mean it just, I mean it came down to

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Speaker 2: who do you think was that fault here? Right? Is

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Speaker 2: it Tyler Skaggs for putting a pill in his body?

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Speaker 2: Is it Eric Kay for providing that pill? Is it

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Speaker 2: the Angels for employing Eric Kay time and again through

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Speaker 2: numerous examples of wildly unprofessional behavior, and you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of never really following their own policies. And I think

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Speaker 2: that was it kind of depends on which side.

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Speaker 3: You look at.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the Angels spent all this time trying to

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Speaker 2: denigrate the character of Tyler Skeggs, paint him as a

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Speaker 2: drug abuser. You know, he was with him and his

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Speaker 2: wife as drug dealers. I mean, this is which were

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Speaker 2: not just it wasn't really based in reality. As far

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Speaker 2: as my opinion, having sat there for it, I feel

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Speaker 2: a bit more comfortable sharing.

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Speaker 3: My opinion now that it's Oh.

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Speaker 2: But you know that that's really what it came down to,

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Speaker 2: is which version of events do you believe? And also

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Speaker 2: which who Who's who's ultimately responsible for this? And I

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Speaker 2: think there was responsibility to go around, you know, ultimately

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Speaker 2: the jurors would have had to come in decide what

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Speaker 2: percentage of fault each of those three entities were at.

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Speaker 2: So but you know, it just you know, in the story,

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Speaker 2: I think it transcends, you know, one player and one

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Speaker 2: team in one one situation. To me, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're looking at at real issues that are facing Americans

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Speaker 2: across the country, and you know, real things that come up.

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Speaker 2: I mean, fentanyl at the time especially, you know twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen was just becoming something that was wide recognized is

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Speaker 2: very dangerous. You're also talking about things like federal mandatory minimums.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned Eric Kay's in prison for twenty two years.

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Speaker 3: For as poorly as I feel like he.

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Speaker 2: Handled things and as the Angels handled things, twenty two

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Speaker 2: years was a very long time to send him in

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Speaker 2: prison for an accident and for an addict who ultimately

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Speaker 2: was probably operating within the scope of his addiction. So

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Speaker 2: it's really tough to kind of ultimately put down a

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Speaker 2: single judgment on one person or one thing. But you know,

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Speaker 2: there's just a lot of mistakes made by a lot

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Speaker 2: of people over the course of a long time. And

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Speaker 2: you know, I think this trial painted kind of how

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Speaker 2: this all happened in a way that you know, his

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Speaker 2: criminal trial just didn't.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners may not know, but Mark Trumpell was actually

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Speaker 1: traded for Tyler Skaggs in the three TM deal before

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Speaker 1: the twenty fourteen seasons, so he never played with Tyler

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Speaker 1: at the big league level. But Mark, when you when

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Speaker 1: you when you see what's going on in this trial

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Speaker 1: from afar, when you've been in that clubhouse for as

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Speaker 1: long as you were, I don't know if there was

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Speaker 1: any indications of the kind of culture where players are

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Speaker 1: trading pills and you know, dealing with pain management and

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Speaker 1: trying to get through injuries. Did you see anything like

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Speaker 1: that when you were playing with the Angels around the league?

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Speaker 1: Was there an awareness among players that you know, these

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Speaker 1: types of things are going on.

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Speaker 4: Well, in my experience there, no, I didn't see anybody

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Speaker 4: trading medications, especially prescription medications. Well, you know, I started

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Speaker 4: to read about the trial and some of the names involved,

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Speaker 4: and it really was a foreign thing to me because

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Speaker 4: you know, someone who played you know, parts ten years

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Speaker 4: or well ten years. It's it's strange that I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: have noticed this going on. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: probably like in real life, not everyone wants to share

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Speaker 4: some of their habits that they'd rather you know, keep secret,

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Speaker 4: quite frankly, and I think that that's kind of one

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Speaker 4: of the what happened here. I don't think that there's

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Speaker 4: any cool factor or otherwise where guys are going around

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Speaker 4: bragging about, hey, you know, look at these, you know,

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Speaker 4: opioid based painkillers that I got. You know, I'll give

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Speaker 4: you this for this, and and that's not the way

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Speaker 4: it is at all, you know, with the Angels. As

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Speaker 4: a young player there, I think, you know, every team

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Speaker 4: you go to, I played for four, you're going to

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Speaker 4: have athletic trainers that you know, you get to know.

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Speaker 4: And then there's team doctors that are part of it too.

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Speaker 4: And some teams are on the stricter side of i'm

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Speaker 4: gonna say, doling out medication. But I never saw a

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Speaker 4: single team that was reckless or totally unprofessional. And I

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Speaker 4: think one of the conflicts are One of the hard

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Speaker 4: things for me is, you know, all parties involved, it's

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Speaker 4: a terrible tragedy, but I know Eric very well, you know,

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Speaker 4: and and that it's a very tough thing because he

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Speaker 4: treated me well. I found him to be professional, you know,

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Speaker 4: in the time I was there, which was up until

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Speaker 4: twenty thirteen, and then reading about some of the we're

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Speaker 4: going to call it horseplay stuff that transpired later, I

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Speaker 4: never saw anything like that. You know. It seemed like,

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Speaker 4: like Sam said, I think things had really kind of

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Speaker 4: spiraled on him, and you know, he had clearly lost

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Speaker 4: his way and the pranks and stuff. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: that was tough to digest.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, because it's like, you know, you don't see

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Speaker 2: like I wasn't sure if that was like you know,

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Speaker 2: you say horseplay, like it almost like that was the

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Speaker 2: way they described it. But I don't know if that's

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Speaker 2: the kind of thing that happens in big the club

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Speaker 2: as is beyond you know, stuff that comes out in court,

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Speaker 2: you know filings that we learn about it so many

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Speaker 2: you know, we've learned about so many secrets over the.

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Speaker 3: Course of this, you know, three months out.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure if that's the kind of thing that is

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Speaker 2: happening in twenty one other clubhouses or if it's like

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Speaker 2: a no.

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Speaker 4: To me, honest, it was incredibly juvenile. I mean, it

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Speaker 4: sounded like some college stuff and some of the names involved.

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Speaker 4: Quite frankly, I was I was caught off guard. I

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Speaker 4: didn't expect that, and you know, I'm not here to

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Speaker 4: put anybody on blast. I think that at the time,

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe maybe it just seemed like harmless fun

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Speaker 4: horse plays an interesting word, but you know, looking back,

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Speaker 4: I don't think any of it looks all that fun.

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Speaker 4: And it clearly looks like somebody, you know, Eric that

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Speaker 4: was all over the place. You know, my time with him,

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Speaker 4: he was professional and you know, sure he had and

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Speaker 4: I think it's been covered pretty accurately. He had some

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Speaker 4: good days, most good days, i'd say, and and some

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Speaker 4: occasional ones that you know, he seemed a little bit moody.

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Speaker 4: But I'm sure we've all met plenty of people in

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Speaker 4: real life that might fit that mold. We all might

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Speaker 4: fit that mold at times. But I never saw a

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Speaker 4: guy that was, you know, high on the job or

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Speaker 4: unable to perform. So my experience is very different than

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Speaker 4: you know, what seems like game later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was twenty thirteen was like kind of

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Speaker 2: the first reported incident with him, and obviously just got

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Speaker 2: worse after that.

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Speaker 3: You know that at least that was what came out

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Speaker 3: in the trial.

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Speaker 2: Right. The twenty thirteen was in August, was his first

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Speaker 2: time where he kind of expressed that he had had

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Speaker 2: an issue. But you know, it's it's very very when

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Speaker 2: you're not really when you're really kind of hearing the

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Speaker 2: versions in court, it's it's hard to know what's one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent true, but we're not hearing, you know, things

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Speaker 2: that the judge says aren't relevant. So there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of your weighing as you're kind of evaluating what really happened.

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Speaker 2: But it seems to me that Eric kind of had

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Speaker 2: had you know, especially when you get to twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Twenty eighteen got to a point where it was people

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Speaker 2: were aware of it and you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: you know, DG obviously was around Eric lat too, So

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's it's it's maybe not something everyone saw

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Speaker 2: every day, but it certainly seemed like it was growing

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Speaker 2: and becoming a problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the weirdest thing for me, just having

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Speaker 1: known Eric literally since nineteen ninety six when he was

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Speaker 1: a kid in the PR department, just starting out, and

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Speaker 1: you know, being in Texas was surreal, just that whole

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Speaker 1: experience and seeing a team just devastated by, you know,

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Speaker 1: the death of a teammate. But I'll never forget the

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Speaker 1: first night. I think it was Tuesday night when they

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Speaker 1: resumed play. We're in the press box and Eric Kaye

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Speaker 1: tells me to look at his computer and he shows

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Speaker 1: me a video of Tyler Skaggs's wedding and Tyler's giving

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Speaker 1: his grooms groomsmen a bunch of pills. And I knew

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Speaker 1: right then something was going to be very weird here

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Speaker 1: that he's trying to tip me off to something, saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, Tyler Skaggs is not everything he appears, and

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Speaker 1: that of.

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Speaker 3: Course is sort of the video is playing at the truck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not surprised, just weird. So, Sam, you described

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Speaker 1: the sides in this trial as being very contentious or

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Speaker 1: the trial being very contentious at times? How did that

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Speaker 1: sort of pan out? And what sort of stood out

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Speaker 1: to you along those lines when.

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Speaker 3: People ask me about kind of like the actual trial.

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Speaker 3: I think there's like two ways to look at it.

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Speaker 2: I think the facts of the case are you can

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Speaker 2: litigate it on both ends, right, Like, you can make

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Speaker 2: a very strong case about Tyler's responsibility. I think, I

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Speaker 2: mean reasonable people and I think reasonable people on that jury,

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Speaker 2: you know, ultimately felt like Tyler was all very responsible

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Speaker 2: for this what I will say is when it came

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Speaker 2: to the actual litigating in court, I felt like the

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Speaker 2: Scaggs lawyers just wipe the floor with them. I felt

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Speaker 2: like it was not a close matchup in terms of

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Speaker 2: just like trying the case, and you know, just it

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Speaker 2: came down to just credibility. I mean, there were there

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Speaker 2: were plenty of times where I felt like the Angel's

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Speaker 2: lawyers were portraying acts that were or you know, what

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Speaker 2: they said were facts that just weren't. Like at one point,

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Speaker 2: you know, Deborah Johnston, the top HR person with the Angels,

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Speaker 2: testify that MLB that the Angels had basically notified MLB

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Speaker 2: and we're working with Major League Baseball as a part

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Speaker 2: of MLB's Drug Policy Oversight Committee in addressing Ara Kai's addiction,

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Speaker 2: which was was not even remotely accurate. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: went to Major League Baseball immediately after Cork got out

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Speaker 2: that day and I sent them what was said, and

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Speaker 2: I said, is this accurate? And they actually sent back

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Speaker 2: an on the record statement refuting it, which you don't

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Speaker 2: usually see from Major League Baseball, especially against one of

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Speaker 2: their own thirty clubs. I think they felt it was

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Speaker 2: that important to correct the record.

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Speaker 3: And I you know, stuff like that. You know, It's

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Speaker 3: just it felt like that.

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Speaker 2: We were getting almost gas lit at times about what

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Speaker 2: was true what was not. And as someone that you

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Speaker 2: know was hearing all the sidebars from the judge and

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Speaker 2: like kind of hearing the way that the lawyers would

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Speaker 2: talk to the Jude compared to what they'd say in

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Speaker 2: front of the jury, I was just like, this isn't

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Speaker 2: this isn't a good way of going about it. Now,

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Speaker 2: that might be good lawyering in some ways. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 2: if you don't have the facts on your side, you

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Speaker 2: need to win a case in some capacity.

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Speaker 3: But I just.

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Speaker 2: You know, I didn't buy this idea that Tyler had

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Speaker 2: thirteen beers on the plane heading to Texas, all on

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Speaker 2: the plane. I mean, that's just that doesn't really line

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Speaker 2: up for me as even remotely possible.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: So there's there were just and there were things that

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Speaker 2: had been litigated at the criminal trial that were being

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Speaker 2: trying to be reopened that just, you know, stuff that

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Speaker 2: had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury

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Speaker 2: that you're just so I maybe I'm kind of rambling

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Speaker 2: a little bit, but it's all just to say that

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Speaker 2: I don't really think that it was a I think

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Speaker 2: the reason why the Angels were going to lose that

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Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't solely based on the actual facts of

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Speaker 2: the case, but based on, you know, the cases that

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Speaker 2: were being made by the legal teams that was you know,

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Speaker 2: Russy Harden's legal team. You know, that's a that's a

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Speaker 2: good firm obviously, and they I thought they did a

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Speaker 2: good job trying their case in ways that I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, sometimes confused about the way that the Angels

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Speaker 2: were trying their case. And you know, either of these

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Speaker 2: are things I've said out loud, so and it's not

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Speaker 2: like it's I'm not trying to you know, put anyone

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Speaker 2: on last year. It's just the way I saw it

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Speaker 2: as someone that's out there every day.

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Speaker 1: One of the terms you use in your coverage was

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Speaker 1: you described it as being a kind of a dark

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Speaker 1: arbitration case. Yeah, and it had to be weird to

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Speaker 1: sit there and see Dan du Kit on one side

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Speaker 1: and I forget the name of the other guy. Basically

307
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Speaker 1: basically like doing an arbitration case about a kid who

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Speaker 1: passed away six years ago. How strange was that and

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Speaker 1: how big of a role did that play in this strug.

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Speaker 2: That goes back to my last point where you know

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Speaker 2: the Angels whole, they put up all the slide in

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Speaker 2: their own closing arguments and when Dan Dukett testified saying

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Speaker 2: that Tyler Scaggs was declining as a pitcher. Now both

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Speaker 2: of you guys can go to a Baseball Reference and

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Speaker 2: see that his twenty eighteen season and the first after

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Speaker 2: of the twenty nineteen season were by far the best

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Speaker 2: that he had had in his career at that point.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he was on pace to have I think

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Speaker 2: like a two point two war season in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: He's not an.

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Speaker 2: Elite star by amy, but he wasn't declining at that time.

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Speaker 2: So it just you know, when you're when you're realizing,

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Speaker 2: like the arguments they're making, they're saying, well, his era

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen was wasn't good or twenty thirteen wasn't good,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, well, he also made like four appearances

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Speaker 2: that year. You know, I think they were trying to

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Speaker 2: rely on a jury that maybe didn't understand baseball statistics

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Speaker 2: and you know, had fancy grafts and things like that.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately, I definitely think Tyler Skaggs was going to

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Speaker 2: be making more than thirty million dollars the rest of

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Speaker 2: his career if he had stayed healthy. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think their best argument is, you could you can

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Speaker 2: make as well. He would have gotten caught and he

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Speaker 2: would have gotten in trouble and that would have impacted things.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's a there's a legit, legit argument

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Speaker 2: there potentially, But in terms of what he was doing

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Speaker 2: on the field, he was having a good year and

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Speaker 2: he was their best pitcher at the time, which maybe

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Speaker 2: isn't saying much, but he was the race. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: when you talk about dark arv, it's just like that.

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Speaker 2: That is exactly what this was. It was two sides

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Speaker 2: arguing what his value would be. And I mean they

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Speaker 2: had an arbitration lawyer in there for the Skag's family,

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Speaker 2: so it's, uh, you know. The Ultimately, I think that

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Speaker 2: the Angels were trying to say, we have someone who

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Speaker 2: actually draws up these contracts. We have someone that you know,

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Speaker 2: knows what a team is looking for, can speak to that.

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Speaker 2: You have someone that's more of a player advocate, and

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Speaker 2: it's sort of true, sort of not, but I don't

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Speaker 2: I didn't really buy that argument at all and ultimately

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Speaker 2: understanding how these contracts work. I think kind of maybe

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Speaker 2: colored my perspective wanted and you know, there are other

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Speaker 2: factors that play there. I mean that he would have

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Speaker 2: hit free agency at COVID, right, so you're, you know,

355
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Speaker 2: you're you're ultimately looking at a you know, his his

356
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Speaker 2: arbitrary His last arbitration year would have been that twenty

357
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Speaker 2: twenty season, which would have obviously cut through the salary.

358
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Speaker 2: But I you know, I go back to the Angels

359
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Speaker 2: did not pay out his twenty nineteen contract. I mean,

360
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Speaker 2: he was owed half that contract, which is about one

361
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Speaker 2: point eight million dollars. And I understand he wasn't pitching, right,

362
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Speaker 2: he wasn't alive, But at the same time, I mean,

363
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Speaker 2: it just seemed like the right thing to do. Ultimately,

364
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Speaker 2: when then you then consider the fact that the Angels

365
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Speaker 2: were paying eric ka sefernce package and they continue to

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Speaker 2: fund his legal defense to this day. So you know,

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Speaker 2: those are the things I have trouble squaring sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Now, this case took a major turn in the final week,

369
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Speaker 1: right after the jury asked the judge a question about

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Speaker 1: punitive damages. Until that point, Sam, did you get many

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Speaker 1: or any indications that this case would settle.

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Speaker 2: No. I mean, listen, it had been like an ongoing

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Speaker 2: I think conversation to some extent, but this came down

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Speaker 2: to insurance companies.

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Speaker 3: I don't think people fully realized this.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't to some extent already could have just settled it

377
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Speaker 2: and paid paid out of pocket. I mean, which you know,

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people could argue maybe would

379
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Speaker 2: have been the pre to move and maybe more would

380
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 2: have been costly at the time, but you know, probably

381
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Speaker 2: would have saved them a lot of reputational damage. I

382
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Speaker 2: think you could argue they lost millions in reputational damage.

383
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to quantify it, but that's why

384
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Speaker 2: it didn't settle, right, Like, the insurance companies weren't authorizing

385
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Speaker 2: payment up until that punit of damages question came in,

386
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Speaker 2: where I think some of the dominoes started to fall,

387
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 2: and you know, the settlement, which you know, the number

388
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Speaker 2: of that payment has yet to be disclosed, but you know,

389
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Speaker 2: I think punitive damages are not covered by insurance, right,

390
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Speaker 2: so I think part of this was, you know, any

391
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Speaker 2: sort of other damages would have been probably covered by

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Speaker 2: insurance regardless of hot HW I win I think maybe

393
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Speaker 2: even up to close to like five hundred million or

394
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Speaker 2: something like that. But any there have been any punitive

395
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Speaker 2: damages that comes out of Artie Braino's pocket, essentially it

396
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 2: comes out of the Angel's pocket, and there would have

397
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,680
Speaker 2: been a whole separate hearing on what those punitive damages

398
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Speaker 2: would have been based on the actual value of the Angels,

399
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 2: which would have been fascinating for I think a lot

400
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Speaker 2: of Angels fans to learn what the team is actually worth.

401
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 2: It could have impacted any future sales. There were a

402
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 2: lot of implications of getting to a point where there

403
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: were punitive damages, which heavily incentivized the team to settle.

404
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 2: After that, After that question and came in and you know,

405
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 2: I talked with like the Jerry Foreman who was the

406
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 2: one that asked that question. You know, I think he

407
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 2: was far more on the plaintiff side than some of

408
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 2: the other jurs. Some of the jurors I think were

409
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 2: split and we're having a hard time kind of reconciling

410
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,719
Speaker 2: some of the facts. So you know, it's ultimately they

411
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 2: would have had nine people agree on liability for the Angels,

412
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Speaker 2: but the dollar value maybe wouldn't have been as high

413
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Speaker 2: as I thought it was going to be.

414
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Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly the dollar value of what the jury said

415
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: the verdict would have been indicates that they put a

416
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: fair share of the blame on Tyler Skaggs. Even though

417
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Speaker 1: Tyler Skagg's family didn't quote unquote win the case. I

418
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Speaker 1: don't think it was as huge a win as maybe

419
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Speaker 1: some thought it might be.

420
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, and I don't know, you know,

421
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Speaker 2: sometimes like I don't think Orange County is known for

422
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 2: giving out you know, just jurys in Orange County aren't

423
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Speaker 2: give that huge settlements or jury awards things like that.

424
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Speaker 2: And you're also I also felt like at times this

425
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 2: case could have fallen along political lines, and so you're

426
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 2: maybe dealing with, you know, a split in that way

427
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 2: of conservative versus more liberal. So there's you know, these

428
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: are all calculations that you're making during your wardier process

429
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 2: or jury selection process. And I was a little surprised

430
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: what the jury said, but you know it also that

431
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 2: is how this process works, and it is you know,

432
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 2: it's fair. At the end of the day, you got

433
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: to accept it. And you know, we don't know if

434
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 2: the Angels made a good deal.

435
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 3: Or a bad deal.

436
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 2: So to speak, but I think ultimately they wanted to

437
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: avoid having any punitive damages which the jury was going

438
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 2: to award.

439
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 3: Those.

440
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 2: I'll just we just don't know the actual dollar value

441
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: they would have been.

442
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: Well, they could have avoided a lot of the bad,

443
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: bad publicity that certainly came out during this trial. Why

444
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: do you think the case didn't settle beforehand?

445
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 2: I think insurance companies. I mean I think, you know,

446
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 2: they probably one insurance company in particular was looking at

447
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: this and saying, the facts are good for the Angels here.

448
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 2: You know, they felt like they had a chance to

449
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: win this trial. Now, you know, also it comes down

450
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 2: to Artie, right, like I think, you know, I think

451
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 2: that there is a we aren't responsible element to this.

452
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: That is how they felt, you know, internally, and you know,

453
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: I get it to some extent. I do I really

454
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: that part of it. I you know, I think that

455
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: there is nuance, and I think that that may be

456
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 2: where the Angels lacked is nuance, Like Molly Jolly is,

457
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: there's you know, a very important person with the Angels

458
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: there at CFO, I believe, high ranking executive was asked

459
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 2: on the last day of testimony if there's anything she

460
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 2: would have done differently learning because she was at the

461
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 2: defense table. The Angels were entitled to have a you know,

462
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 2: non lawyer representative like executive at the defense table for

463
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: the whole trial, and Molly was the person there, and

464
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: so she was asked, well, you sat here this whole time,

465
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: what would you do differently?

466
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 3: And she said, I might like look.

467
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 2: Over you know, policy manual or something, and I'm just like,

468
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: you know, again, it's like you're sitting in the courtroom.

469
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: You're kind of like that, and I'm like, that could learned?

470
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: Is your policy manual meets an update? I just I

471
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 2: felt like that was tough for me to hear because

472
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: there were a lot of things. You know, you could

473
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 2: sit here and say Tyler Scaggs is responsible for everything,

474
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 2: and even that separate from this idea we need to

475
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,479
Speaker 2: be better, and I I strongly think the Angels need

476
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: to look in the mirror and say to themselves, what

477
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: do we need to do differently here? Beyond beyond everything

478
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 2: that you know they might feel about Tyler and his

479
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: role in this, they made mistakes along the way here.

480
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: Erica should not have been on that trip, He shouldn't

481
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 2: have been employed by the Angels, at that point. I

482
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 2: think it's pretty clear that came in. That was how

483
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 2: I felt, and you know, just there were a lot

484
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: of mistakes made.

485
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was the defense. Eric case lawyer

486
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: used a trial in Texas and he told me several

487
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: times Tyler Skaggs is a drug addict. That was his defense,

488
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, and it didn't work out for him either.

489
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: So it's crazy. Ultimately what swung this case in the

490
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: favor of the Skaggs family.

491
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you asked the jurors afterwards, it

492
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: was the HR failures.

493
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 3: I think that's really what a lot of them kind

494
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: of points to.

495
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: Even some of the people that were, you know, more

496
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: in favor of the Skags or more in favor of

497
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: the Angels writ large, were like, the Angels didn't do

498
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 2: their due diligence on the HR department. They didn't find

499
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 2: Debora Johnston credible. From the things I was talking about

500
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: earlier with Major League Baseball, you know this there's a

501
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: doctor's note that was obviously just like an extension of

502
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 2: leave note that you know that brought Eric back to work,

503
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, ultimately before Tyler, right before Tyler's death. I

504
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: just think there was a lot of inconsistencies with how

505
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: the HR department handled other cases.

506
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 3: I mean, it was it was.

507
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: Anybody that was actually listening to the testimony would tell

508
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: you that their HR department just messed up a lot,

509
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: and that I think was what you're is, at least

510
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: from my conversations with them afterward, said that they felt

511
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: like was the strongest, you know, case against the team.

512
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: Well, with the settlement, the Angels don't have any liability,

513
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: they don't have to invent any guilt, but there's obviously

514
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: some reaper cushions to this whole trial. First of all,

515
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: where do the Angels go from here? And Mark, maybe

516
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: you can weigh in on just, you know, the public

517
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: perception of this franchise right now and how it was

518
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: impacted by this trial.

519
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, Sam, so go ahead.

520
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I was.

521
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 2: I'm very curious to kind of hear your thoughts on that.

522
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: But I mean it's, you know, in terms of where

523
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: it goes next. I would just say that I think

524
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: Major League Baseball is looking at this, and they should

525
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: look at this. They should read every I'm surprised they

526
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: didn't have a lawyer in the courtroom every day. I mean,

527
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: to be honest, with you is one of their thirty teams.

528
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: The Major League Baseball should have been very involved in this. Ultimately,

529
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: a lot of what was being litigated was did was

530
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: MLB's policies followed at a point And so I mean,

531
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: you know, I think that a settlement allows everybody to

532
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: be like, well, you know, the two sides figured it

533
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: out on their own, and.

534
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: We don't need to get involved.

535
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: But if you're Major League Baseball, they have a duty

536
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: to very least investigate the claims that came out in

537
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: this trial and to figure out exactly what happened here.

538
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 2: And you know, as there was conduct that I think

539
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: needs to be looked into, and if you're the Angels,

540
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: that should be proactive process. I mean, we talked about

541
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: you know, trumb we talked about like the you know,

542
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: pill prescription.

543
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: Stuff like that.

544
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: I mean, Eric k was prescribed six hundred pills maybe

545
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 2: by Craig Milhouse, the team doctor. You know, over the

546
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: course of four years. It's like, somebody needs to look

547
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 2: into the way every a lot of these things are

548
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 2: handled and are these people that are currently running some

549
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: of these departments and charge of some very important things

550
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: still to this day, are they are they doing the

551
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: jobs they need to be doing correctly.

552
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: Mark, what do you think the fallout from this case?

553
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: I mean there's there are no winners, and I think,

554
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 4: you know, reputations have been damaged. It's almost you know,

555
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 4: try and separate things to some degree. The people that

556
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 4: are involved, especially the ones that I know and have

557
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 4: a lot of respect for. Some of them had to

558
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 4: you know, appear in the trial and putting some very

559
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 4: awkward positions. I'm not sure you know what the strategy

560
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 4: was one of the earlier witnesses. I think you can

561
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 4: probably decipher who I'm talking about, but you know, I

562
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 4: think that they were kind of left out in the cold.

563
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: And you know, truly genuine, you know, great people that care.

564
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 4: I think their peer department as a whole is excellent.

565
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 4: They're very sam you deal with them all the time,

566
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 4: so do you might, you know, and they treated the

567
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 4: players really well. And Eric was somewhat of an anomaly,

568
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 4: but for a long time he was very functional and

569
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 4: he's That role is very tough at times because you

570
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 4: have to rely on the players to you know, acquiesce

571
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 4: and say yes to do in some of these interviews,

572
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: and you're constantly asking for things and it's got to

573
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 4: wear on you. And you know, at times the players

574
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 4: have you know, a decent amount of leverage they can

575
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 4: tell you to you know, no thanks or worse, and

576
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 4: then you have to go back and you know you're

577
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 4: not able to effectively do your job because you're the

578
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 4: conduit between the media and and the players, and the

579
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 4: media is you know, a necessary part of the game.

580
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 4: And I think the Angels have done an incredibly poor

581
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 4: job of communicating with the media from the top down.

582
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 4: Very few interviews, sometimes no availability at all, no transparency,

583
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 4: and I don't really get it, and I haven't gotten

584
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 4: it for a while. As somebody who's no longer playing,

585
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 4: I follow the team, I watch the games, and you know,

586
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: it seems like a couple times a year somebody will

587
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 4: pop their head up, maybe with the writer they feel

588
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 4: comfortable talking to, but you know, you don't. You have

589
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: to fill in the blanks on your own, and that

590
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: can be kind of, you know, not so great. If

591
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: they're not they're not doing a good job of controlling

592
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 4: the image of the team and trying to you know,

593
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: I don't know what image there is right now, to

594
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: be honest, I think that you know, they're drafting a

595
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 4: lot on the success of a world championship that was

596
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: over two decades ago. That's still a big deal. And

597
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 4: you know, opening Day bringing out the you know, and

598
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: that is a big deal, don't get me wrong, incredible achievement.

599
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 4: But in recent history, there's you know, there's just not

600
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 4: much and this is just another thing that kind of

601
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 4: is dragging, kind of a boat anchor. And when you

602
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 4: talk about a franchise, No, I'm.

603
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: Just curious, how do you think players internalize this? Because

604
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: we're in a free agency now, and like I wondered,

605
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: like when you see this trial playing out, like I

606
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: don't know how many how much players really care about,

607
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: you know, litigating some six seven.

608
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: Year old case.

609
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: But like if you're a player, like you understand the

610
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: way that the agents work, the way that players think,

611
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: I mean, would this be something that would impact their

612
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: perspectives this trial?

613
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 4: It's hard to not at least if you if you

614
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: don't know anything about it, then then no. But you know,

615
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: if you're somewhat interested and you read a couple of

616
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 4: the articles maybe maybe you put out or some of

617
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 4: the things you it paints a picture of you know,

618
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 4: if they're a team that's after a player and the

619
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 4: players weigh in the options. It's I don't think this

620
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 4: is a selling point.

621
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't.

622
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 4: I don't see any upside to it. You know, they're

623
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 4: in a legal battle, that you know, and they had

624
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: to fight their case at the end of the day.

625
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 4: If they're you know, you're going to go into court

626
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 4: and do it. That's what it looks like to some degree.

627
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 4: There were some interesting things that you know, while you

628
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 4: were talking that I think that one day was cut

629
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 4: short due to a holiday party. Yeah, that seemed quite

630
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 4: odd to me. I you know, you're fighting for keeps here,

631
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,239
Speaker 4: and I don't know, it seemed you know, this is

632
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 4: you know, just simply my observation that the job of

633
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 4: the the lawyers seemed odd on one of the sides. So,

634
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: but you know, that's that's all partly because I'm left

635
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: filling in the same gaps I'm talking about. You know,

636
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 4: is there any kind of statement released. You didn't see anything,

637
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: so you you know, it's everyone else around you just

638
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 4: filling in the blanks on your own, and it's you

639
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 4: don't get any information that says otherwise. It looks very

640
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: bad and as a you know, a free agent coming here,

641
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 4: it's just, you know, amongst all the other things, the

642
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: on field play being the biggest factor. I think this

643
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 4: is just a kind of another negative that you know,

644
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 4: they're gonna have to work pretty hard to overcome and rebrand.

645
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 4: I think in some way to make this a desirable

646
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 4: place for players to come. Living near the beach is awesome,

647
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: but that can't be the only reason that you're playing

648
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: for a ball club. For one of those.

649
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: I just wanted to reiterate one thing that you said,

650
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: which is, you know this, One of the things was

651
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: tough for me about this was all these people going

652
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: up there that I know, getting, you know, having to

653
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: be under the gun and testify.

654
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: And I really agree with you.

655
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: Like the Angel's PR staff, they get maligned for this

656
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: particular case, but also just for how bad the team

657
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: is and for a lot of the lack of transparency

658
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: from that are those are decisions that are being made

659
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: at the very top. You look at the Angels PR staff,

660
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: I think that from the top down, it's as good

661
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: as you get major League Baseball. I firmly believe that,

662
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: and it sucks for them, so as you know, I

663
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: feel like any Angels fan that is processing all the

664
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: information about this should understand that part of it, you know,

665
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: this is this is not a rotten.

666
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: To the core organization.

667
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: There are a lot of really good people who had

668
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: to go up there and testify and who who you know,

669
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: probably for the sake of their jobs, felt like they

670
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: needed to. And that's that part of it is tough too.

671
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I felt like you're letting Mike

672
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: Trout go up there and testify and this, I mean,

673
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: that's why you need to talk about settlement. I mean,

674
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: they you know, they they announced Kurtuzuki as the manager

675
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: in the middle of Mike Traft testifying to try and

676
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, what kind of organization is this, I mean,

677
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: where all these things are happening, and it's just that's

678
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: the tough part. But I do I really feel like

679
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: there are good people there and a lot of those

680
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: people got dragged through this in a tough way. And

681
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: you know, like you said to me, you know, I'm

682
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: sure you were alluding to Timmy, the first, uh.

683
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: First witness of the whole trial.

684
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: It was, you know, spent forty years with the Angels

685
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: and you know, in the front office in PR and

686
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: a lot of different capacity who's as respected as anybody

687
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: is in the game who went to work at the

688
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame after working with the Ages around the

689
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: same time Tyler's death. And he's you know, as good

690
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: as they come. But you know, you get brought in

691
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: the middle of this, and I thought it was a

692
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: really tough spot for him. And you know, there were

693
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: things he testified too that I just you know, I

694
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: didn't fully believe at times, like not necessarily remembering if

695
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: you found bags of drugs at Eric K's home, Like

696
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: how do you not remember that?

697
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 3: So that's you know, these are things you're weighing as

698
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: it plays out.

699
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: But I think it sucks that, you know, people are

700
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: getting put in the middle of this and you know,

701
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: being forced to kind of make decisions about you know,

702
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: what you test by to or or you know, do

703
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: you want to keep your job type stuff. It's it's

704
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: that that's probably a calculation in the back of certain

705
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: people's minds when you're when you're going up there and testify.

706
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: But there's a lot of good people there, including that

707
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 3: PR staff. They do a great job.

708
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: Before closing the show with one final question for Sam,

709
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: I want to thank Mark Trumbull for referring to the

710
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: media as a necessary part of the game and not

711
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: a necessary evil. Thank you Mark Well, I mean thank

712
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: you Anthony wren Doon.

713
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: Sam.

714
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: What do you think the fallout is going to be

715
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: from this trial?

716
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: I don't know.

717
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: I mean, it could it could be nothing. I mean,

718
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: it could just be reputation was damaged, and you know,

719
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: they just keep playing baseball and keep losing baseball.

720
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: Games, and that's just what happens. Uh. So, I don't know.

721
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 3: I I I think.

722
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: That there should be uh the like lead should.

723
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: Look into this.

724
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: I just I you know, I don't know if that

725
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that should punish. I'm saying should look

726
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: into it, and they should address some of these things

727
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: that came out if they feel like, you know, it

728
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: was true and it's worth it because and that's not

729
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: against the Angels or against it's just like that's what

730
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 2: needs to happen in these in these in these situations,

731
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: Like I think what you saw was that a lack

732
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: of that throughout years of employing Eric k where there

733
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: probably should have been someone looking into his behavior. I

734
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: mean he was sending emails on his work computer and

735
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: his work email address to purchase drugs off the street.

736
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: I mean, it's that's the kind of stuff where if

737
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: that's it's getting to that point, he either felt way

738
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: too comfortable in that in his job. It was just

739
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: there was nobody ever looking into it. There was nobody

740
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 2: ever that was, you know, holding him accountable, and ultimately,

741
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: like I think Eric K would have rather been fired

742
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: than be where he is now. So you know, I

743
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 2: just I think that there needs to be somebody looking

744
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: at at what happened here and making sure it never

745
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: happens again.

746
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: Oh that will close this episode of Halo Territory thing.

747
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, thanks for listening, Please like and subscribe,

748
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time on Helo Territory