WEBVTT - Japanese Breakfast's Michelle Zauner 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.760 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.880 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Dog, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.239 But enough about me. My guest today released but I 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:15.920 believe to be among the best music. The Recording Academy agrees. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.880 They've nominated her and her musical collective for a pair 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.439 of Grammys Best New Artist and Best Alternative Record for 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.079 her album Jubilee. I won't even try to describe its beauty. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.360 Firstly because the intricate, dreamy soundscapes must be heard to 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.680 be believed, but also, as a newly minted New York 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:36.360 Times bestselling author, she's demonstrably a better writer than I am, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.559 and I don't want to embarrass myself. The album Jubilee 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.840 is inextricably linked with her recent memoir Crying in h Mart. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.879 It's an arresting account of her days as a caregiver 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:48.320 for her Korean mother during the end of her battle 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:52.559 with cancer. This loss looms large over her first two albums, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.360 but on Jubilee, she sings a different tune. In short, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.200 it's an album about joy. That's not to say it's 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.520 an album about being happy, but it's something a little 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.679 more nuanced and a little more ephemeral. It's the choice 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.160 to move towards joy, to search for it, recognize it, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.920 and preserve it. Jubilee is less about overwhelming technicolor ecstasy 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.800 and more about eking out pleasure in the every day. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.840 Heard in context with her previous music and book, which 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.200 is currently adapting into a feature film, these little victories 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.399 resonate as major triumphs, and even out of context, Jubilee 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.559 triumphs as a stunning piece of art. I'm so happy 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.959 to welcome the singer, songwriter and guiding force of Japanese 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:47.000 Breakfast Michelle's honor. I hope you enjoy our conversation. In 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.200 the last year, you've released two absolutely stunning pieces of work, 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.320 the book Crying in h Martin and the album Jubilee, 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.280 and I'm so struck by the juxtaposition of writing a 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.280 book processing grief while making music about moving towards joy. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.840 Was it difficult to veer between those two, you know, 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:09.720 extreme emotional landscapes, or was it a nice counterbalance? Um? 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.840 I think that they just go so hand in hand. 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.080 Crying in h Mar was written before turning to this 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:22.200 album Jubilee, and I think that in a way, writing 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.920 Crying in H Mark made me finally feel like I 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.440 had said everything I wanted to say about this, this 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:34.280 really intense experience, this this life changing experience, and um, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.000 I felt really ready to begin a new chapter. And 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.120 I think that writing Jubilee really felt like I was 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.400 starting a new in this in this way. And I 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.080 think maybe there's a kind of like self mythologizing in 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.400 in the process of making that record too, of just like, okay, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.040 this it's time for you to allow this new emotion 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.840 into your life creatively and personally. It was really cool 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.960 to see moments when the book and the album were 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.639 in conversation with each other and there's a beautiful line 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:02.520 and crying an h part. It felt like the world 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.240 had divided into two different types of people, those who 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.720 felt pain and those who had yet to. And you 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.600 sing similar words in posing in Bondage, and I thought 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.720 that in many cases the book added a whole dude 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.680 dimension to the lyrics. Thank you for noticing that. Yeah, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.760 I think there's a lot of borrowed lines, you know, 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:20.760 a lot of the times, I mean, there's just so 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.080 much space in a book, and so I think that 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.400 with music, you're looking for lines that really distill a 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:32.400 certain type of emotion or thought, and it was fun 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:34.760 to kind of, you know, that was the feeling that 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.160 I had, and it exists on its own and song, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.040 but then to unpack that and what it looked like 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.640 around it and when that thought came to me and 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.600 how I processed it was a whole new kind of 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.320 freedom that I had in writing this book. And it 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.200 was really fun to get to steal certain lines from 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.920 other songs that I've written a long time ago and 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.200 put them into the book because it was very much wow. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:58.920 I felt in that moment I already had this kind 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.680 of archive of that type of processing. Now, the pandemic 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.280 delayed the release of Jubilee by a year, which meant 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.680 Crying and h Mark came out within a few weeks 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.720 of Jubilee, which I know wasn't ideal for you initially, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.720 but at least from a fan perspective, it really to me. 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:16.680 It made the song seems so much more important to 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.600 see where you come through, and that made the exuberance 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.440 enjoy seem all the more triumphant. Are you happy with 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.000 the way that the release shook out? Now? Yeah, I 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.880 can't complain. You know, I definitely feel like it was 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:34.040 both releases were went as great as they could have gone. Um. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.159 I definitely went into that year thinking one of these 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.640 is going to fail or one of these is all 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.480 short and at least you have the other as like 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.960 a kind of lifeboat. Uh, and then both of that, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.800 you know what. I really felt like the book was 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.560 like taking off more than the record in a way. 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:53.600 And then we were nominated for Drew Grammys and it 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.360 kind of just like, oh, I think they're actually like 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.279 really neck and neck here. Um, so yeah, I'm really delighted. 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.800 I honestly was just I had no idea how either 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.440 of them were going to be taken in and so 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.280 I really I was so worried, um that I was 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.960 going to like get captle or something. But it ended 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.200 up only like lifting a figh which was which is nice. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.039 So now I'm very grateful that had happened with There's 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.760 this kind of common notion among creative people, and I 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.880 don't know, maybe even non creative people. I suppose that 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.839 the best art comes from pain. You need to be 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.320 an anguish in order to be productive as an artist, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.200 and you've you've spoken about this in the past about 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.800 feeling that way yourself at points I was wondering, has 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.839 the experience of making Jubilee and coming out the other 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.600 side of this Catharsis of writing the book, has that 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.760 changed that that notion for you? Oh yeah, definitely, I 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:49.719 mean I think that, Um yeah, I think that that 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.080 was part of the challenge. Um that was exciting about 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.120 writing an album about joy was that parts of it 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.960 We're going to have to lean into fiction. And also, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.479 as you get older, to you like all of the 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.840 real like meat and potatoes of great songwriting, the yearning 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:09.320 and the jealousy and you know, like heartbreak are not 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.960 really things that I go through in my life anymore. 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.720 And so I was really worried going into it that 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.159 it would lose some like real feeling by not having 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.720 that in song. And so it was really comforting after 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.240 writing this album, and also I wrote a couple of 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.599 songs for this video game soundtrack called Sable, where was 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.359 also having to like write in this very different type 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.760 of way that wasn't so much about like my own 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.440 personal trauma. Um that it was a real relief that 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.440 that I think that some of my most compelling music 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.560 is music that has nothing to do with me personally 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.640 at all. Jubilees your your third album, and you've talked 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.600 a lot about the myth of the third album and 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.240 being sort of a crucial point in an artist discography. 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.080 I want to ask you more about that, that this 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:57.280 sort of the third album, Uh Ethos, Yeah, I mean 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.240 for me, I just think it's the first time as 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.640 an artist you can really start to think about your 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.680 records in context of one another. You know, for the 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.279 first two it's like your debut, and then there's this 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.880 fear of the sophomore slump, and by three, I feel 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.840 like you're kind of thinking, Okay, where does this, how 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:15.880 do these work with my previous work? When am I 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.760 trying to move away from one? Am I just trying 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.200 to strengthen UM? And for me, I just feel like 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.000 the third album you should really just know who you are, like, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.640 what your strengths are is as an artist, and and 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.480 and how to put that forward, how to showcase that 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.680 UM And I feel like a lot of times the 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:39.160 third album is like a real um bombastic, theatrical like 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.160 culmination of all of the work that you've done up 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.080 until that point. And I was thinking a lot about 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:49.320 records like UM New York's Homogenic and Well Coast Summer 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.320 Teeth and Beach House's Teen Dream. Like, all these third 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.120 albums are just feel like real thesis statements I think 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.120 in an artist's career, and so I was going in 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.880 with that in mind. The arrangements on this record are 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.440 just absolutely stunning. I mean, I love one of my 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:06.920 favorites of the strings on Tactics. I can totally hear 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.240 like the early Randy Newman vibe on that It's so good. 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.440 Now you've recently started studying music theory, which to me 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.520 is amazing considering how much you've accomplished prior to studying 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.320 music theory. Um. You hear stories of people like Paul 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.360 McCartney saying that they can't read music and they're almost 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.440 reluctant to try because they're worried that that's gonna, you know, 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.559 take some of the spontaneity out of what they do. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.320 Did did you encounter that? Like what went into your 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.440 decision to start um studying music theory? Yeah, I mean 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.280 I just felt like I had sort of plateaued musically, UM, 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.600 and you know, I was worried about writing too many 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.760 songs in the key of D or the same chord 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:48.120 progression or um the same Yeah. Like I have a 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.160 lot of like chord ships that I, you know, just 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.840 tend to fall too because they're comfortable for me. And 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.920 that was part of it. And their part was Craig Hendricks, 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.679 who was drums in our bands the produced with me 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.480 on Off Sounds from Another Planet and Jubilee like comes 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.920 from Perpolic school music and I've always been like exceptionally 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.640 jealous of him and his talents, and so much of 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.720 that comes from that sort of education. So I've always 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.360 felt a little insecure about that in a good way 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.520 that I just wanting to challenge myself to to learn more. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.880 And I feel like, especially now, I've just gotten so 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.319 far not really knowing or not writing that way that 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.480 I think that, um, it's a really it's a very 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:33.400 easy way, um to kind of incorporate more interesting ways 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.880 to write a song and uh, just learning when you 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.280 hear a moment in a song like why why that 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.960 mathematically is like interesting to you? And and and to 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.559 learn that about my own songs and actually start from 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.760 there when I go into writing things I think will 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.440 be really helpful. So I think that Kokomo was an 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.520 example where I was like the first TIMI incorporated like 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.920 a minor fourth chord and was like learning, you know, 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.080 like from Beatles songs, how to how to do do 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:04.160 things like that and what made it interesting. How do 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.360 you know when a song is done? Is there a 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.400 temptation to tinker for you a lot or or do 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:15.000 you kind of know immediately when you have it? Um? 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:16.520 I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.640 so much of making music is rooted in intuition where 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.880 it just feels like you're you're for me. I always 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.320 I always talk about how, Um, I'm always searching for 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.840 a lift in music emotionally, like in a chorus, like 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.280 I want to feel like my heart is like being 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.720 lifted into a new place. Um. I think a song 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:37.679 always needs to have that for me, and so I'm 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:43.880 always like trying to support lifts in music sonically. Um. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.880 And when I feel like that's really there and a 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.160 song travels in that way, it's just a very like 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:53.880 almost physical feeling that it is done. Um. Sometimes it's 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.600 it's harder than than others finding that, but I do 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:58.680 think that it is it's like really ingrained in me 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.880 when when it's not there. Yeah, do you find that 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:08.280 that your favorite songs kind of come the quickest. Um, 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.559 that's a great question. Uh some sometimes, yeah, I mean 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.640 I think that uh yeah, there are certain I'm trying 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.160 to think of, like specific songs that I love. I mean, Boyish, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.440 like that's off of the last album, Soft Sounds, was 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.640 something that took years to figure out how to get right, 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.400 and I think is one of my favorite songs because 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.440 it took so long to get there in a way 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.679 and I went through so many iterations. But then there 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.000 are songs like you know, Kokomo is one of my 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.319 favorite songs off of this record, and that song did 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:54.480 come together pretty pretty quickly. Early in your your time 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.800 making music as Japanese Breakfast you uh you involved with 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.240 the project where you a song every day for the 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.920 month of June, and you've talked about how so much 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.080 of the work of being an artist is showing up 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.680 and putting yourself out there, which is so interesting to 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.040 me as a music lover who loves music and plays instruments. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.440 But I've never been able to write a song my 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.520 entire life, and I just sort of assumed that you 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.240 kind of had it, or you don't, you were touched 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.959 with this fire or you weren't. Um, So it was 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.880 really refreshing to hear you say that. Do you still 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.200 approach songwriting in the same way as it's still like 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.640 a daily practice for you, like some people do yoga 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:36.559 or jog Yeah, I mean definitely not. I I um, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.440 it's a very like on and off thing for me. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:44.680 I feel like, uh, if I'm entering the song writing, 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:48.280 like if it's time for me to write a new record, um, 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:52.080 I like pull, like pull on the tap and then 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.840 and then that's when I start getting regimented about showing 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.960 up every day. But until then, I don't. I don't. 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.440 I don't pick up a guitar. Honestly, I never like 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.640 tried to write unless I'm like setting out to write 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.600 an album. I don't know if that's a good thing 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.959 or bad thing. But yeah, it used to be when 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.640 I was younger, I would like it would inspiration would strike, 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.080 and then you would go and do it. But now 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.000 it's more of just like, if I'm ready to write 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.440 an album, I'll spend I'll turn on the top for 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.480 like a week and write every day for a week, 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.920 and then I have to go and do something else 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.600 and turn it off for a while. You're gonna hang 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:29.520 up on me for this question, But I was curious 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.520 if there's a flip side to the showing up every day. 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.200 Is there is there a supernatural element to the songwriting 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.800 at all? They believe, I think so, yeah, I do. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.240 I mean I think that in a way. I think 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.040 you're like chasing a voice in your head, you know, 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.760 I mean there is kind of something magical and uh 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.000 hunting about that feeling like I don't know where that 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.120 sound comes from, what I hear it in my head? 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.160 And you're creating, you know, you're chasing after it. Is 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.200 there an element of superstition for you when you right? 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.200 Is there a certain time of day that you feel 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.560 is better, or a lucky instrument, or a room or 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.839 even just a ritual like okay, I need my cup 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.640 of tea before I begin this or not. Really I 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.920 think for me, it's just creating that space. Um I do, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.360 Like I think, I just so badly want to be 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.560 this regimented morning person, even though I'm maybe you want 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.240 and and and that is how I kind of right now. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.080 It's like if I think, if I think about going 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.280 into the to start writing this next record, I probably 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.720 will be like in a room for a week, like 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:36.120 writing every day, But I really like creating, uh like 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.120 weird guidelines and rules for myself because I find that 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.760 like having those weird restrictions or limitations is actually really 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.320 helpful for me, Like something like June, where it's like 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.320 you have you have to write a song every day. 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.440 It doesn't matter, like if you have three jobs that day, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.560 it doesn't matter if you have ten minutes, Like you're 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.280 leaving here with a song. And I think that creating 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.600 that opportunity for like Ross unapologetic, like Ross source material 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.280 is really helpful for me to return to edit and 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.120 jump off of when I when I talk to people 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.440 who are are blessed with the ability to to write music, 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.280 I'm always so curious about what what compels them to do. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.440 So if is it a desire to connect with other 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.880 people and share or is it more of a need 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:20.520 to just get these feelings out of you and you 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.320 would write just as much if you were in a 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.680 cabin in the woods alone or on a desert island somewhere, 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:26.880 or is I imagine there's probably an element of both, 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.560 but the one went out over the other. I never 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.920 think about other people, Yeah, I never. I never think 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.640 about other people because I think that I need to 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.080 just write what I'm interested in and hopefully people will 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.440 like it and maybe they won't. But I never have 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:50.240 thought about anyone else when I'm ready the Have you 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:55.040 ever learn something about yourself after after writing a song? 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.960 You know? They say like every character and a dream 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.040 is you is when you listen to a song back 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.720 that you've just written. Uh do you is? It almost 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.320 like getting a really good dream reading? That's a great question. 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:12.560 Um have I learned? Um? I don't. I don't know. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:14.680 I don't know if I mean. I think a lot 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.040 of my songs honestly, and I kind of like caught 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.800 myself because that's like, you can't keep doing this. But 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.160 a lot of my songs will start with something like 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.320 I want uh. And I've noticed that I was doing 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.480 that too often, where it's like I want to be 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.920 a woman of regimen or I wanna be good, I 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.280 wanna do this thing. And I was like, oh, this 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:36.880 is like a thing that you're doing a lot, And 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.440 so I do think I noticed, like, yeah, I think 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.520 in a way it reveals like where your psyche is 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.520 because there are certain things that are like um, dogging 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.760 you that you can escape from from writing about or 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.680 like is something that you want to impact. Uh yeah, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.120 I think that that that pattern and looking back at 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.240 like something that you always kind of like are writing 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.640 and grappling with. This is clearly like a reflection of 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.720 your psyche in some way, even if it is a 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.600 song that's like kind of rooted in fiction. I mean, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:10.320 I want ambition, forward thinking. Yeah. The visuals I meant 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.159 to mention this earlier for this record are just absolutely stunning. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.520 I mean from the bright yellow color palette of the 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.840 cover and the promos to the amazing videos. I mean 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.879 that the Spike Jones does X Files be Sweet? I 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.840 mean posing a bondage savage good boy, It's they're so incredible. 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.480 How how are you inspired for the visual components of music? 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.200 Are you're aware of them as you're writing the song. 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.560 Do you get the visuals in your head almost like synesthesia? 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.399 Or you sit down and think about it after the fact. Um, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.360 I'm not going to be an artist that since, but 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.760 I don't really think about the visuals at all until 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.440 the song is done, because the song changes so much 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.840 in arrangement and production from when it first starts, you know, 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.280 so once the album is done. Um. And also it's 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.879 so frustrating because sometimes you have a really good idea 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.800 and the label or or you even don't want it 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.879 to be a single, and so if you know, you 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:05.640 have to like if even if you have an idea, 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:06.879 you have to like kind of get it out of 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.439 your head. Um. But yeah, I think it's become just 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.359 like a delightful part of the process. Um. Adam Clodney 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.000 is the director of photography on on all of my 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.840 music videos and it's such a at this point, it 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.919 doesn't feel complete unless I direct three music videos to 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.119 accompany an album, and it's such a big part of 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.520 the process and and something that I really enjoy. But yeah, 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.120 usually the ideas don't really come until after the song's completely. 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.240 You've you've said in interviews that, Um, making music gave 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.480 you the confidence to write this book. I was wondering, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:19:00.320 what is the book given you confidence to do? Oh? Um, gosh, 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.000 I mean, I guess it's given me confidence to write 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.639 again and know that I it's okay to to work 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.000 in multiple mediums and and you know, it's just done 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.360 so well and so I think it's just encouraged me, um, 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.760 that that that's the path that I can continue to take. 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.520 It as writing albums and writing books. I think it's 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.879 those that taught me. I mean, you know, honestly, the 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.920 book taught me so so much about myself. I think 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.800 I was able to find a lot of forgiveness uh 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.240 in the book for for all of the characters, you know, 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:35.400 the characters of my life and UM, myself included, UM. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.439 I had. I used to have so much shame and 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.040 guilt about UM being a difficult teenager, uh and and 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.560 putting my mom through, you know, a difficult time. And 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:48.679 I think that through writing this book, I came to 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:53.040 realize that, you know, we were up against um such 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:58.199 challenging odds. We had no representation in the media, and 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.080 we had no peers that we're going through being a 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.520 mother and daughter raised from different cultures with very different 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.639 upbringings and values that in retrospect, of course, we were 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.480 going to have that type of friction. And I think 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.560 that I didn't really understand that or really even think 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.240 about our relationship in that context until I started writing 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.200 this book. And that was really freeing for me, uh, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.119 to forgive myself for putting my mom through you know, 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.440 these sort of like rotten teenage moments. Because I think 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.960 I was coming from a place where you know, it 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:34.040 was just difficult. I had no um, I had no 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.720 reference points. Uh, And I think that, Yeah, that was 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.960 really comforting to me that that wasn't a big moment 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:44.080 for me to learn from. I imagine the revision process 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.520 of this book must have been so interesting because you know, 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.200 as a narrator, it's your job to be fair to people. 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.920 I imagine that the when that's tough to do when 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.080 these are personal stories with a lot of emotion tied 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.479 into it. First draft, you put it down as you 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:58.760 remember it, and then I imagine reading it back and 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:00.359 seeing it, I mean black and white it on the 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.600 page must have almost neutralized it in a way. I 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.800 don't know if that's a word at all or the 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:07.639 way to use that word, but made it something more 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:09.760 neutral that you could objectively see and kind of see 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.520 the situation maybe for closer to what it actually was 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.280 and not how you remembered it. Yeah, I mean the 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:20.200 revision was really where I feel like the the writing 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.199 really began in a way that makes sense. Like I 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.400 think that the first draft of this book was a disaster, 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.040 but it needed to be. It like needed to be 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.000