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Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and

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Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on.

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Speaker 3: This is rad your host for soft Rep Radio and

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Speaker 3: I have a really awesome episode today. As always, I

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Speaker 3: have to talk about the merch store. So let's go

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Speaker 3: check out softwarep dot softwap dot com Forward Slash Merch

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Speaker 3: Store and go check out the latest from Brandon Webb

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Speaker 3: and the guys behind the scenes who are making cool

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Speaker 3: branded merch like soft Rep shirts. And we love being

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Speaker 3: tagged in those pictures on the Internet, so keep it up.

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Speaker 3: The other thing that we love talking about, and if

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Speaker 3: you're new to the program, welcome, But that's our book

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Speaker 3: club and we have soft rep dot Com Forward Slash

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Speaker 3: book hyphen Club and you can go in there and

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Speaker 3: just peruse the library of books that have been put

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Speaker 3: together by the operators behind the scenes here at soft

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Speaker 3: Rep for you so you can enjoy it. And if

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Speaker 3: you've already been a part of the book club, continue

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Speaker 3: reading books and using that gym for your mind, which

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Speaker 3: is a book.

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Speaker 2: Now today we have.

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Speaker 3: A very distinguished guest, I should say okay, many titles

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Speaker 3: from American patriot to general, to secretary to probably father

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Speaker 3: and son. We have former retired Major General William M.

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Speaker 3: Katz also current Secretary at the American Battle Monuments Commission

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Speaker 3: on the show welcome.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, it's nice to be here. I'm not

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Speaker 4: currently the secretary, though, I'm the former secretary.

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Speaker 3: Former secretary, Ah, distinguished. Okay, excuse me, former second. We're

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Speaker 3: cool with that.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to read I'm gonna drop your bio. We're

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Speaker 3: going to read this here, okay, and then get to

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Speaker 3: know you a little bit and then just go from there.

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Speaker 2: All right, Is that cool with you, William?

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Speaker 4: That's fine.

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Speaker 3: Major General William M. Katz, US Army, retired, was a

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Speaker 3: Secretary of ABMC, appointed by President Donald Trump in January

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. Matts is a highly decorated combat veteran with

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Speaker 3: a distinguished military career spanning five decades. As an infantryman,

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Speaker 3: he served in Korea and Panama, and as a company

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Speaker 3: commander with the ninth Division in Vietnam, where he was

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Speaker 3: wounded in action in the nineteen sixty eight offense. He

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Speaker 3: served in the eighty second and one hundred and first

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Speaker 3: Airborne Divisions and was executive secretary to two Secretaries of Defense,

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Speaker 3: Casper Weinberger and Frank Carlucci. Matt served two years with

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Speaker 3: the Navy Marine Corps Amphibious Forces in the Pacific during

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Speaker 3: a second tour in Vietnam, and deployed with the seventh

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Speaker 3: Ftry Division to Panama during Operation Just Cause in nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty nine. Upon retirement from the Army, Matts worked for

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Speaker 3: Raithian Company as Vice President Army Programs, followed by General

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Speaker 3: Manager of Vinyl North Grummans Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization

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Speaker 3: program in Riad. Saudi Arabia. President George W. Bush appointed

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Speaker 3: him to the Veterans Disability Benefits Commission. He is also

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Speaker 3: past president of the National Association for Uniformed Services. He

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Speaker 3: is on the Eisenhower Institute National Advisory Council Council and

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Speaker 3: a member of the Board of Directors of the American

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Speaker 3: Armed Forces Mutual Laid Association. He received a Bachelor's of

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Speaker 3: Arts degree in political science from Gettysburg College and a

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Speaker 3: master's degree in political science from the University of San Diego.

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Speaker 3: He is also a graduate of Harvard University's Senior Executives

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Speaker 3: and Government management course. His military service awards and decorations

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Speaker 3: include the Distinguished Service Cross, Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star,

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Speaker 3: Legion of Merit, Bronze Star for Valor, Purple Heart, and

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Speaker 3: the Combat Infantry Infantry Badge. Mats was born in drex Hill, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: He and his wife Linda reside in Great Falls, Virginia,

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Speaker 3: and are the parents of three children. Welcome again to

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Speaker 3: the show, sir.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you. It's nice to be with you, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And you know, Daniel said, hey, Rad, I've got

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Speaker 3: someone that would like to be on your show.

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Speaker 2: Let's get them on and here we are. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, Rod, you know you mentioned about the many titles. Yes,

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Speaker 4: the best title I ever have is Grandpa.

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Speaker 2: Grandpa another title, right, see there's another title.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, seven grandsons.

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Speaker 3: Seven grandsons. Wow, they've got some lineage to look up

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Speaker 3: to there, don't they.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know that's one reason Rad I sat down

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Speaker 4: and actually wrote the book. I was penning out notes

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Speaker 4: to leave to my grandsons. Oh yeah, as sort of

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Speaker 4: a written legacy. I wish my dad had done that

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Speaker 4: for me as a World War Two vet, but he

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Speaker 4: left all too early and he didn't do it. So

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Speaker 4: when I left the Trump administration, I told my wife,

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Speaker 4: this is a good time to start to write out

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Speaker 4: something and lead to the grandsons of the kids. So

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Speaker 4: so anyway, that's how I got there. I got one grandson,

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Speaker 4: Rad that still thinks I fought in the Civil.

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Speaker 2: War, So because you fought so many Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I thought i'd better leave him a written legacy.

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Speaker 2: Your classic. That's great, you know. And and where did

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Speaker 2: you come up with the title of your book? Uh?

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Speaker 4: You know, I came up with that because really, as

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Speaker 4: you can see in my book, it's really a soldier's

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Speaker 4: lifelong struggle with polio. It's overcoming polio as a young child.

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Speaker 4: So my toughest battle, Rad has been overcoming paralysis as

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Speaker 4: a young boy and then coping with and fighting with

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Speaker 4: the with the after effects of polio my entire life

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Speaker 4: as an infantryman in the army, which which really wasn't easy.

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Speaker 4: So I titled the book my toughest battle.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: When I went into Air Force, Uh, as young man,

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Speaker 3: they made me drink some polio as the vaccination, just

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Speaker 3: to make sure that I had that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that was the liquid vaccination.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got that, you know, me, So you had

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Speaker 3: to overcome it, just like some great presidents had to

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Speaker 3: overcome it as well.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, no, no, you're you're exactly right. I was

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Speaker 4: stricken with polio as a young boy. I wasn't quite

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Speaker 4: six years old in nineteen forty four, living outside of

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Speaker 4: Philadelphia with my mother and my sister. My dad was

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Speaker 4: in the Pacific overseas in the war, and I came

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Speaker 4: down with polio.

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Speaker 2: One day.

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Speaker 4: I couldn't get up and walk. I fell down. I

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Speaker 4: tried to get up again and fell down. They took

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Speaker 4: me to the hospital, gave me a spinal tap, and

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Speaker 4: diagnosed me with polio myolitis another name for polio rad is.

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Speaker 4: And I say this because this generation living today, thank god,

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Speaker 4: they haven't had to deal with polio, right, they don't

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Speaker 4: know much about it. But it was also called infantile paralysis,

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Speaker 4: that's right, and my leg was parallels. My right leg

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Speaker 4: was paralyzed from hip to toe. And the doctor said

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Speaker 4: at that time that I would never be able to

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Speaker 4: walk again without the use of a crutch or a brace.

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Speaker 4: So obviously, as the story goes, I proved them wrong.

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Speaker 2: You did. Airborne had a.

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Speaker 4: Lot of wonderful medical help, and it was my father.

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Speaker 4: But he came home from the service, got out of

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Speaker 4: the service at Christmas was it Christmas Eve? Nineteen forty five?

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Speaker 4: He didn't want that crutch or that brace anywhere around.

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Speaker 4: One day he told me, he said, Bill, you take

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Speaker 4: that crutch and brace, you throw it under the bed.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to see it again. I don't want

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Speaker 4: you to be a cripple. And of course my mother

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Speaker 4: was very upset. She said the doctor said he needed it, etc.

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Speaker 4: But a couple of days of arguing why he wanted

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Speaker 4: a brace went under the bed. That was probably a

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Speaker 4: seminal moment for me in my recovery because it did

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Speaker 4: get me up and having to push and walk following

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Speaker 4: many times, but getting up on my own two feet.

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Speaker 4: I just tell that because that's part of the story

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Speaker 4: in the book.

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Speaker 3: No, it's and it's amazing, right because you've gone on

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Speaker 3: to get into the military. So so, so here you

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Speaker 3: are as a young man with polio, right, okay, and

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Speaker 3: then what was your favorite sport that you like to

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Speaker 3: be a part of. Were you a scout growing up

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Speaker 3: as a young man and you know, dealing with this,

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Speaker 3: were you trying to be in boy Scouts and you

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Speaker 3: know how did you how did you get to the

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Speaker 3: run face?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well yeah, so yeah, you can retill call your

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Speaker 4: days as a young boy. You know, young boys want

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Speaker 4: to do everything. You want to keep up with your friends.

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Speaker 4: And I had a very difficult time doing that. Once

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Speaker 4: I was released from the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was still on.

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Speaker 4: An outpatient protocol, but I tried to keep up with them.

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Speaker 4: My one leg was after feed so to this day,

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Speaker 4: I were a size twelve on my left foot and

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Speaker 4: size nine. I had a I had a permanent lib

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Speaker 4: but but all the time, my my, uh my anterior

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Speaker 4: horn cells which are destroyed by the polio virus. They

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Speaker 4: were starting to grow and reinvigorate as I grew as

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Speaker 4: a boy. But it was tough. I mean, I couldn't

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Speaker 4: ride a two wheeler when all my buddies were I

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Speaker 4: was still on a three wheeler. Can you imagine?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's yeah, right, you want to.

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Speaker 4: They would make fun of me, rat you know, and

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Speaker 4: laugh and so forth, and yeah, no, I would fall

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Speaker 4: down every once in a while trip, but I'd get

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Speaker 4: back up, hould in and get back up. I wanted

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Speaker 4: to be with them and I wanted to play football

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Speaker 4: in uh in grade school.

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Speaker 2: So, uh, I think you get a call.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I worked real hard to make the football

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Speaker 4: team uh in uh in our junior high school football team.

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Speaker 4: So that that's a partial answer to your question on

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Speaker 4: what sport did I want to do? But I just

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Speaker 4: wanted to push myself and make sure I could do

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Speaker 4: everything a normal boy would do.

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Speaker 3: I get that from you. That's why I was asking

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Speaker 3: that question. You know, it's because you've gone on to

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Speaker 3: do those things. You've gone on to exceed that I

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Speaker 3: already know, you know with just your your titles.

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Speaker 2: Right. I mean, let's talk about the general.

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Speaker 3: Right, you had to get in the military, and being

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Speaker 3: in the military, you had to do pt and physical

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Speaker 3: training against everybody who didn't deal with the pole.

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Speaker 2: Well not everybody.

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Speaker 3: Some people probably had to deal with polio in their

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Speaker 3: life like you did, right, you know, and get through

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Speaker 3: and so I mean you had to run, did you

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Speaker 3: have to? I mean, what was your what was your

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Speaker 3: enlistment like, because it's Korea, right, are you enlisting in Korea?

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Speaker 4: No? No, I went through Army ro OTC at Gettysburg College, Right.

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Speaker 4: I was commissioned to second lieutenant through the college. And

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Speaker 4: when you filled out the questionaire to go into ROTC.

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Speaker 4: Why I wanted the disqualifiers was was polil and of

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Speaker 4: course I had to check that I had to be

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Speaker 4: honest and to get into the program though, they sent

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Speaker 4: a neurosurgeon up from Walter Reed Army Medical Hospital in

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Speaker 4: d C to give me a final examination, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: and he reluctant me past me. Had he had he

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Speaker 4: failed me, my life would have been different. So just

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Speaker 4: a series of how there's a little bit of luck

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Speaker 4: in everybody's life. So so yeah, I got into the

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Speaker 4: RTC program. I managed to play lacrosse in Gettysburg College.

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Speaker 4: I had a lot of wonderful coaches and mentors that

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Speaker 4: pushed me and helped me along. And I think having

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Speaker 4: at Pollio was a young man and just driving myself

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Speaker 4: and not wanting to be a cripple, not wanting to

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Speaker 4: be embraces or a wheelchair gave me that grit and

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Speaker 4: that perseverance and that personality that I have to day

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Speaker 4: that I'm not gonna quit, I'm gonna I'm gonna make it,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to get through. And so that's what got

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Speaker 4: me through some very difficult times in the Armies. You

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Speaker 4: can imagine I went into UH Airborne School, I went

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Speaker 4: into UH ranger training. I had had a very difficult

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Speaker 4: time in ranger training. If it wasn't for one of

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Speaker 4: my ranger buddies, I probably wouldn't have gotten through that.

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Speaker 2: But why why why? What was the what was the

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Speaker 2: difficult training?

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Speaker 4: Ranger training RAT is the toughest training the Army has.

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Speaker 4: It's a nine nine and a half week course. The

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Speaker 4: last phase of the course by and I describe all

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Speaker 4: this in my book by Toughest Battle. Yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I I tripped tripped on a on a we were

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Speaker 4: on a night reconnaissance uh missig uh on Santa Rosa

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Speaker 4: Island in the Florida phase of ranger training, and I

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Speaker 4: tripped and uh uh really had a difficult time getting up.

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Speaker 4: So this big ranger buddy of mine, Paul Stanley, picked

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Speaker 4: me up, put me over his shoulders and carried me

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Speaker 4: through the rest of that course. Had I not, had

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Speaker 4: I not made that last phase, why I may not

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Speaker 4: have gotten a ranger table. It's another, you know, another

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Speaker 4: simple full example there of somebody helping me. But also

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Speaker 4: I think of my ability and wanting to get through it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just just to push yourself through just to

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Speaker 2: say you can do it.

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Speaker 3: I feel that just comes right out of you as

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Speaker 3: a young man. It's like, you know, to lose something

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Speaker 3: and then to regain it, you just want to run

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Speaker 3: with it.

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Speaker 4: Well you're exactly right right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yes, one hundred percent. Am inspired by that.

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Speaker 3: And I think that people going out to get your

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Speaker 3: book or checking that out would also find a lot

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Speaker 3: of the same kind of goosebumps.

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Speaker 2: Really, you're giving me goosebumps. Yeah, well, just how cool

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Speaker 2: it is because you push through.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I also I also elected you into the infantry.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how familiar are with the army, but

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Speaker 4: there's about eighteen branches within the army itself. So I

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Speaker 4: could have taken an easier track, you know. I could

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Speaker 4: have could have gone into one of the combat support

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Speaker 4: or combat service support units. But I chose the infantry,

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Speaker 4: which is the tip of the spear. They're the guys

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Speaker 4: on the ground that winning the last one hundred yards

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Speaker 4: of any fight. So I went in the infantry. I

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Speaker 4: was intury officer all my life, and in that role,

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Speaker 4: while you you're out with UH with the infantry units, companies, battalions, brigades,

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Speaker 4: they run do pet every morning up I went and

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Speaker 4: did it with him, and it was very, very painful

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Speaker 4: on some mornings because a lot of times as you

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Speaker 4: listed soldiers, they wanted to outrun the old man.

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Speaker 3: You know, of course, Well it's a pir right pa,

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Speaker 3: just like a parachute infantry regiment.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: You guys are like airborne. You guys are always staying

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Speaker 3: keeping your legs. Your legs have to be toned. My

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Speaker 3: father was My dad was a Green Beret, so yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so his legs look like like really horse stable,

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Speaker 3: like horse racing legs, like a horse, you know, just

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Speaker 3: nice and tapered and just like bam. But that was Dad,

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Speaker 3: and now I'm trying to chase that in my forties.

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Speaker 3: I'm like going to the gym every day, boxing, doing

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Speaker 3: flutterkicks and just trying to push myself to get those

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Speaker 3: same type of like you know, I know Dad had it.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I can get there. Come on.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I mean, that's interesting you say that, rat,

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Speaker 4: because the good bit of my career in the Army

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Speaker 4: was with the airborne units, the eighty second and one

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Speaker 4: hundred and first Airborne units. I mean, I wanted to again,

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Speaker 4: I wanted to prove myself that I could do that,

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Speaker 4: I could do everything the West Point officer could do, right,

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Speaker 4: everything everybody else did. So I kept pushing myself wanting

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Speaker 4: to get into the elite units, and that took a

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Speaker 4: toll on my leg over the years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and going in through rangers and just so much running.

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Speaker 3: And then just winding up in this like what the

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Speaker 3: All American AA, the eighty second Airborne, the.

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Speaker 4: Eighty second Airborn Division, right, the All American and the Screaming

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Speaker 4: Eagles is one hundred and first.

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Speaker 3: So what, of course, were you like a brigade commander

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Speaker 3: over the eighty second at one point or is it

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Speaker 3: a division? How did your command over in eighty second work?

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Speaker 2: How did that work?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, first of in one hundred and first Airborne Division,

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Speaker 4: I was a battalion commander and you have about six

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Speaker 4: hundred and six hundred and fifty men under you there

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Speaker 4: in the eighty second. And I actually had two tours.

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Speaker 4: I started out there as a young lieutenant back with

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Speaker 4: sixty two and went through the Cuban Missile Crisis for

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Speaker 4: them and some very other very interesting events that happened

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Speaker 4: during the Cold War, and then I came back to

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Speaker 4: the eighty second in nineteen eighty and I was the

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Speaker 4: G three or the operations officer of the eighty second.

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Speaker 4: So boy, that really kept me busy. He kept me running.

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Speaker 4: And you know, a lot of parachute jumping, a lot

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Speaker 4: of exercises, operations and so forth.

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Speaker 2: How many theaters did you jump into theaters of operation that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? How many different theaters?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Did you get the stars on your jump on

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Speaker 2: your jump wings? Do you have different stars?

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Speaker 4: No? No, no, I don't have any stars on my

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Speaker 4: jump wings. I am a master.

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Speaker 2: Umper ago right, so you have the main star on

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Speaker 2: the top of it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I got the mains right, right, I'm a master jumper.

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Speaker 4: But no, I jumped into the deserts of Egypt on

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Speaker 4: a bright star operation back in nineteen eighty one, eighty two.

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Speaker 2: Static line all the way, dude.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, it was quite an operation. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So but you know, with an atrophy leg and a

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Speaker 4: bad leg, you're you're constantly right, you're constantly protecting it,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Sure, So jumping out of

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Speaker 4: an airplane is easy, it's the landing that stuck.

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Speaker 2: Right. Knees together, right, that's what Yeah, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Knees together and toes on the ground. But I always

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Speaker 4: you know, it's funny how you compensate when you know

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Speaker 4: you have a weak member of your body, right, So

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Speaker 4: I was very careful always to try and not land

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Speaker 4: on that right leg at all, and I always favored that,

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Speaker 4: and so the left leg took all the eating and

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Speaker 4: so forth.

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Speaker 2: So you kind of had a different kind of gait

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Speaker 2: when you walked as well. Is that is that what

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Speaker 2: I'm understanding or did you you know?

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Speaker 4: I did know you're understanding, is right. I always had

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Speaker 4: a limb and uh, of course, when I was a

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Speaker 4: young boy growing up and having this atrophied leg which

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Speaker 4: is thinner than the other and the foot shorter than

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Speaker 4: the other, and I had dropped foot, I always disguised

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Speaker 4: that lint, you know, I was. I was ashamed of it.

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Speaker 4: I didn't want other people to know that I had

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Speaker 4: that right. So so it was a difficult time for

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Speaker 4: me growing up and getting getting through and a lot

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Speaker 4: of people that I had been friends with all my life, Uh,

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Speaker 4: they never really realized I had polio until I wrote

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Speaker 4: my book and they started reading about it. I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's how I was sort of able to disguise it

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Speaker 4: and get through life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure some shininess on your shoulders made

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Speaker 2: everybody look kind of face forward, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe.

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Speaker 2: My eyes are up here, yes, right.

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Speaker 4: Here, looking at my feet, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they should be looking at your straight ahead,

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Speaker 3: at the shininess whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: I just see shiny. That's great.

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Speaker 3: And so you achieved the rank for my listener that

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Speaker 3: may not be familiar of major general and if I may,

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Speaker 3: that's two stars?

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Two star?

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Speaker 2: Right? That first star?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 4: Two star general is the right guy achieved before I

377
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Speaker 4: retired from the army in what September of nineteen ninety five,

378
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Speaker 4: So yeah.

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Speaker 3: Just after a Blackhawk down operation Gothip Serpent and ninety

380
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Speaker 3: three was in that timeframe, and just after all of

381
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Speaker 3: the ninety five So you've.

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Speaker 2: Served under multiple presidents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I did, right, And you always seem to transition

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Speaker 3: with the different presidents that were coming in with you

385
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Speaker 3: as an officer. And you know, do you mind giving

386
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Speaker 3: a little feedback on what your mental toughness is about,

387
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 3: you know, maintaining your bearing when there's a transition of

388
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Speaker 3: presidencies in this modern day?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, as I say, I served on active duty

390
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Speaker 4: from what was at sixty nineteen sixty two to nineteen

391
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Speaker 4: ninety five. As you know, Arad, that was the ultimate

392
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Speaker 4: period of the Cold War. Sure was, so I went

393
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Speaker 4: through a lot of operations and exercises as a young lieutenant.

394
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Speaker 4: The eighty second was alerted to go down to Cuba.

395
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Speaker 4: When krush Cheff put those missiles in Cuba, I'll tell

396
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Speaker 4: you we were all set to go. That was thirteen

397
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Speaker 4: thirteen very tough days there. In October sixty two, we

398
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Speaker 4: were all set to go. They broke out ammunitiative plane side.

399
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Speaker 4: They sent some airborne units to forward air bases down

400
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Speaker 4: in Florida. We were ready to fly in and jump in.

401
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Speaker 4: I can remember this day. He drop zone I was

402
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Speaker 4: going to jump into, moved north across the Almendares River

403
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 4: link up with the Marines that were coming across the beach.

404
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 4: But thank god, we never had to do that. As

405
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 4: you know, Kennedy, the young President Kennedy back crushed off

406
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 4: and he pulled the missiles out. So that was one

407
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Speaker 4: major major event that I was involved in. And then

408
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 4: I was also involved in, of course, the Vietnam War. Vietnam, Yeah,

409
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Speaker 4: was the big one. I was a rifle company commander

410
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Speaker 4: in the Mekong Delta in the ninth Infantry Division sixty

411
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Speaker 4: seven sixty eight. The period sixty seven sixty eight RAD

412
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Speaker 4: was probably the toughest ground fighting that took place in

413
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Speaker 4: Vietnam with during those two years. They were the two

414
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 4: years I was there. I went through the Tet Offensive

415
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Speaker 4: in January sixty eight and then came home in what

416
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Speaker 4: November sixty eight. Then I was also involved when I

417
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Speaker 4: was with the seventh infit Treaty of Vision in nineteen

418
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Speaker 4: eighty nine. You may remember Operation just Cause that was

419
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 4: the US invasion of Panama. Yes, we went down and

420
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 4: got Oreega, that's right. Yeah, he was threatening Americans down there,

421
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: and his pdf Panamanian Defense Force really one day killed

422
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 4: one of the Americans down there, and that's sort of

423
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Speaker 4: what precipitated the first President Bush to launch that operation.

424
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Speaker 4: If you'll recall, during that operation, a Chairman of Joint

425
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Speaker 4: Chiefs was Colon Powell, and so I was with the

426
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Speaker 4: seventh Infantry Division at that time, stationed at Fort Ord.

427
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Speaker 4: We got the alert it was three or four days

428
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Speaker 4: before Christmas nineteen eighty nine, that we were going down

429
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Speaker 4: and we got eight infantry battalions down there. The air

430
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Speaker 4: Force did a tremendous job bringing the aircraft in and

431
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Speaker 4: we flew out of two departure airfields Travis Air Force Base, Monter.

432
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Speaker 2: Ray out of California. Yeah.

433
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Speaker 4: Yeah, civilian based at California, and we got our infantry

434
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 4: down there very quickly. They joined up with the paratroopers

435
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 4: that had jumped in and uh right, that was That

436
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 4: was one of the best operations I think the Army

437
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 4: in recent years. Uh well, all services executed. It was

438
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 4: well planned, well executed, and we took down a PDF

439
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 4: very quickly and eventually captured Noriega, set him in handcuffs

440
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 4: back to the States, and we reinvigorated the Panamanian government

441
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 4: and uh you know, the story goes from there exactly.

442
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 4: So that was so that was quite an operation that

443
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 4: I was involved in.

444
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I have a friend who was involved

445
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 3: in that operation. Maybe I could say Nightingale. Yah, yeah,

446
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: is it Colonel Nightingale?

447
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, colonel is he? Is it Keith Nightingale?

448
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

449
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever met him, but he and

450
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 4: I are sort of about the same year group, you know.

451
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, because I had him on the show. Sure,

452
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: I know he.

453
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 4: Writes a lot of books at all, So please tell him.

454
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: I said, hello, I will, I will.

455
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: And so it's just it's just cool to hear your

456
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 3: perspective of it, and you know, the way that you're

457
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 3: approaching it, just so deliberate, direct, just concise about the

458
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: situation and you know, and he was like, he's a

459
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: part of all that South America stuff going on in

460
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 3: Panama and you know, you guys have just you know,

461
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 3: you mind me and my dad. I'm not gonna lie, Okay, Right,

462
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: he was in Vietnam, green beret and nothing but love

463
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 3: for you. And I don't know if you've ever been

464
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 3: welcomed home officially from nom but let me be someone

465
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 3: to say, welcome home from there.

466
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: Okay, so welcome back.

467
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 4: Well I appreciate, yeah, I you know, there's a lot

468
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 4: of there's a lot of stories rat about the troops

469
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 4: from Vietnam not being properly welcomed home.

470
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

471
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 4: I actually I hate to use the words, but being

472
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: spit on and things like that. You know, when I

473
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 4: came home for my first tour in Vietnam, I didn't

474
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 4: experience any of that. I mean I got off the

475
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 4: airplane in Philadelphia, my family was there to meet me.

476
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 4: I had a young wife and our son was what

477
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 4: I forget, he was like maybe twelve thirteen months old

478
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: at the time. But we were very well received by

479
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 4: the people there in Philadelphia in nineteen sixty eight, no

480
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 4: vendor sixty eight when I got off that airplane. But

481
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 4: things started to turn really bad then in the sixties,

482
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 4: as you know, and during the latter part of the

483
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 4: Vietnam War, I mean it got bad, man, and yeah,

484
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 4: a lot of our troops they received very unpleasant welcomings,

485
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 4: I guess when I got back, and even after they

486
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 4: were back.

487
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: You know.

488
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: I've had my experience with some veterans from Vietnam who

489
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: have talked about that same exact thing what you just said,

490
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: and some have said, hey, you know, I didn't experience it,

491
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: but friends did in different demographics of the country. Yeah,

492
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: more in the cities it was more, you know, but

493
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 3: in the Midwest where he was from, he didn't really

494
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 3: receive any you know, pushback during that time. But you know,

495
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: we in today's modern media, it's just everything so quick.

496
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 3: We just are like, if we're not seeing the war

497
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 3: as a civilian, is it even happening?

498
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: You know? And in Vietnam.

499
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 3: It took maybe two weeks to get the article of

500
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 3: the ambush that went wrong or went right.

501
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: To the States.

502
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 3: You know, the reporters would have to you know, truck

503
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: it and get it back, you know, send their papers.

504
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: Fax machines weren't really a thing, you know, and computers

505
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: and cell phones. What we're using starlight, you know, to

506
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: try to use night vision in Vietnam, trying to use

507
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: billows to capture the light.

508
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 2: You know, it's nothing like.

509
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: Today's modern technology of PVS fourteen's where it's just like

510
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: you're just.

511
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: Like right into green eye mode.

512
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: I mean, so much technology has you know, come and

513
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: and put itself into the military. And one of my

514
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: veterans that I was talking to just the other day,

515
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: he said, you know, well in Vietnam, rat they did

516
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: try to drop ground sensors you know, into the bush

517
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 3: to try to you know, get movement of enemy movement

518
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: in there. So they were trying to use technology back

519
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 3: in that timeframe, you know. And I guess to just

520
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 3: bring that full circle with the news media coming back

521
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 3: to telling the people on TV, you know, the stuff quicker, faster,

522
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: that's worse, you know, and so that probably you know,

523
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 3: the sixty sixty nine, seventy seventy one. You know, at

524
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: that time when everybody's like, you know, trying to say

525
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: in the war, they were getting faster and faster media

526
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 3: brought to them, I think, is what it was.

527
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, well you're absolutely right there. I mean,

528
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 4: you know, there were no cell phones, there were no computers,

529
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 4: but you did have the woller cronkite to the world

530
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 4: and the news media who got their cameras there and

531
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: then brought it right back and throw it into the

532
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 4: living rooms of every American and right they did it

533
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 4: in such a way as to sort of turn America

534
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 4: against the Vietnam War. Yet our soldiers over there were

535
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 4: fighting your ass off doing a damn good job. Believe me,

536
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 4: I was there.

537
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: I know you were.

538
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 3: And and to see that Korea and Vietnam were to

539
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: help thwart communism from you know, seeping itself is really

540
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: good versus evil. The situation was just still, you know,

541
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 3: the thirty eighth parallel in Korea, where they decided, you know,

542
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: if I understand that correctly, is like a circle over

543
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: the area of a longitude latitude that dictates the South

544
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 3: and the North Korea. You know, de Militarized Zone right

545
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: the thirty eighth parallel, and so you know that's still

546
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 3: going on today. These guys are still stuck in North

547
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: Korea has never conceded.

548
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: Right, No, no, no, that's right. And a chapter in

549
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 4: my book that sort of skipped over right before I

550
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 4: went to Vietnam and after the eighty second the Army

551
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: sent me to Korea for a year. This was nineteen

552
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 4: ninety five, and I was assigned right up on the DMZ.

553
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: It's called the demilitarized Zone. It's one hundred and fifty

554
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 4: one miles across across the Korea. On the north side

555
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: is you've got the North Koreans. In the south side,

556
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: you get the South Koreans. And I was right up

557
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: there on the DMZ and our mission at that time,

558
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: this is even before Vietnam really started to really seriously escalate,

559
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 4: but our mission at that time was to capture, capture,

560
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 4: or kill North Koreans who were infiltrating South they were

561
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 4: tunneling under coming through the wire, et cetera. So that

562
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 4: was quite experience for me as a young officer.

563
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: How old were you doing that? How old? How old?

564
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 4: I was probably twenty four, twenty five years.

565
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: Old, probably a first lieutenant.

566
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: I was a first lieutenant and actually I was promoted

567
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 4: the captain during my tour over there. Oh wow, I

568
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 4: was in the first cave up in the DMZ. It

569
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: was it was a great experience for young officer who

570
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 4: was still not quite sure he was going to make

571
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 4: the army a career. But yeah, we we lived with

572
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: live ammunition as at at a bunk every night. Uh.

573
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 4: It was a real live mission. It opened my eyes. Uh.

574
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 4: And then I came back and went to Infantry Officer

575
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 4: Advanced Course at Betting and then over to Vietnam.

576
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: What do you think about the current situation there where

577
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: they are digging the roads out around the Did you

578
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: hear about this in the media or you know in

579
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: the national in the international news where they started digging

580
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: out the roads and like taking the roads away from

581
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 3: the DMZ in the north?

582
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: Is that is? This?

583
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 4: Is this in Korea?

584
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? Yeah?

585
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 4: Uh, you know I haven't seen that. No, No, I

586
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 4: haven't read that one.

587
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, They're they're like bulldozing the roads so that no

588
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: one can drive on them. North Korea is bulldozing like

589
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: their own roads.

590
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 4: Oh, I see.

591
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: Within the DMZ area, like so that no one could.

592
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 4: Even well, you know, get to get back to your point.

593
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: We still theoretically, as you know, we are at war

594
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: with still in North Korea the South because there was

595
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: never a treaty. There was only there was only an armistice.

596
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 4: So we have signed an armistice, and an armistice was

597
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: across the thirty eighth parallel, and the South Koreans face

598
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: the North Koreans every day. And we still have about

599
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 4: thirty thousand American troops over there in.

600
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: Korea right now, right just you know, training.

601
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, just as we talk, Well, they're actually training,

602
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 4: but they actually have operational duties too. I think I

603
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 4: think our troops still have part of the DMZ that

604
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 4: they're responsible for in terms of surveillance and anti infiltration.

605
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: Operations holding it down. Yeah, exactly like what you were doing.

606
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: Exactly And in fact, I guess you would say they'd

607
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: be a trip wire if anything happened there.

608
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, then then if it goes off, they're the

609
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: first line that's going to go off, and then everything

610
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: goes from there. M No, if it's gonna be if

611
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: it's gonna.

612
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: Be so guerrilla style or something coming through the wire there,

613
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I can only imagine the battles in Korea,

614
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 3: the feet and everything from all our soldiers. You know,

615
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: today we have at least boots that have better installation,

616
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: you know.

617
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'll tell you some of the coldest nights

618
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 4: I ever spent was up there in the DMZ in Korea.

619
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: Oh boy, cold yeah, cold, yeah.

620
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: You know, elect of the Korean War in nineteen fifty

621
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: through fifty three. Talk to the Marines and the army

622
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 4: guys who fought there the elements. The winter was as

623
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 4: bad as fighting the fighting the Chinese communists in the

624
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 4: North Koreans.

625
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: Right, it was like I think we got involved in

626
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: forty five to fifty and then in fifty to fifty

627
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 3: three is when we got action in Korea, right, And

628
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: I think Armstice was signing fifty three, yeah.

629
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: July fifty three exactly.

630
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. See, that's it's not toped enough. There's not

631
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: enough about that.

632
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: You know, there's not enough like movies put out there

633
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 3: about Korea. You know that we have all the other conflicts,

634
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: but a lot of folks forget that. You know, a

635
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: lot of our troops like yourself went over there to

636
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: you know, protect them from communism.

637
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: Yet again.

638
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: So that's why I asked, how many times have you

639
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: jumped into a different theater? Right, because you've been in Korea,

640
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: You've been in you know, Vietnam, you've been in Panama.

641
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, I was just curious about that

642
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: for my own self at the beginning of our conversation.

643
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well there are the theaters that I operated in. Yeah, exactly.

644
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: And did you ever you got your Combat Infantry Badge.

645
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 4: I got my Combat INFANTRYW Badge after thirty days in

646
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 4: combat in Vietnam.

647
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: In Vietnam. Yeah.

648
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 4: The requirement back then when we were fighting in Vietnam,

649
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 4: as I recall, you had to have thirty days combat

650
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 4: time in Vietnam and you had to be in an

651
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: infantry unit at the time. So yeah, that's where I

652
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 4: got my CIB.

653
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 3: Dang thirty days. It's like, I mean, you probably can

654
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: get action on day one. Yeah, you're like yeah, You're

655
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: like yeah, rad, Yeah, Yeah.

656
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Look at your smile. Yeah, I love

657
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: that smile. There's so much going on there.

658
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: Those thirty days. I mean, you know, you're just so busy.

659
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 4: I mean my units, I was in the field almost

660
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 4: the entire time in the meat Cong Delta, trying to

661
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: flush out the enemy, meet meet the v C those

662
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 4: days when by pretty quickly though.

663
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you're just but that's your constant. You

664
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 3: were just constant. You were just like, yeah, and is

665
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: it is it? Can you just give me a little

666
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: bit of insight. Is it more rice field warfare that

667
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 3: you were dealing with, like rice patties and trench foot

668
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 3: or was it jungle warfare with trench foot?

669
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 4: No, rod. I was in the Delta uh So, which

670
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 4: is south of Vietnam all the way to the tip

671
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 4: of the southern part of Vietnam. And that's what they

672
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 4: call the meat Cong Delta, one of the one of

673
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 4: the world's biggest rice producing areas, and it's laced with

674
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:03,479
Speaker 4: rivers and and uh and canals and things like that.

675
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 4: It's all rice patties. So we were almost every day

676
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 4: we were trudging through at least a foot foot and

677
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 4: a half maybe two feet of water. If you got

678
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 4: up on the dikes, the dry land dikes, the VC

679
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: would booby trap them, you'd lose a soldier, you know.

680
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: So you were you.

681
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 4: Were constantly one search and destroy operations, moving out based

682
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: on based on intel. They gave you to try and

683
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 4: flush out and find the VC. But you were, yeah,

684
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 4: you were constantly at water. Your your your your second enemy.

685
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: There was.

686
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 4: There were terrible fungal and dermatology diseases that our troops

687
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 4: picked up there. In fact, I write about it in

688
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 4: the book Again, I got one that was diagnosed that

689
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 4: it took years to actually finally get rid of it,

690
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 4: so that if you got it too bad, you couldn't

691
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 4: stay out too long. You had to get back and

692
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 4: dry out. That's the only way you could take care

693
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 4: of it.

694
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

695
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 4: But we had a lot of soldiers often on sick

696
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 4: call because of these derbatology diseases that went up their

697
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 4: legs as a result of being in that filthy, putrid

698
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 4: delta water.

699
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: Right and and not being acclimated to it.

700
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and you weren't. I mean, you know we were.

701
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 4: We were white skinned, black skin guys weren't acclimated like

702
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 4: the leathery skin of the of the local inhabitants.

703
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: Exactly.

704
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 4: They knew how to handle it. They're they're they were

705
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 4: immune to those kinds of things.

706
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: I mean, they'd wear sandals.

707
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 4: Carried the feed out. We couldn't wear sands. We were

708
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 4: in combat booth. So yeah, yeah, yeah, the Delta. The

709
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: Delta was very tough. I'll tell you it was very

710
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 4: tough on an infantryment. Not only were you fighting fighting

711
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 4: the enemy, the VC, and not only were they trying

712
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 4: to kill you, but you were fighting the terrible elements

713
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 4: of the delta. Uh, the putrid waters and the right

714
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 4: and the leeches that would get up into your skin

715
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: and you have to either burn them out the next

716
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 4: night or dig them out.

717
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 2: A little bit.

718
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Delta was tough.

719
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: Delta was tough. It was tough, It was.

720
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 4: Not friendly, and it was roaring hot too down there.

721
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: Why do I just envision like mortar fire in the water,

722
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: hitting and all that kind of combat is what you

723
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: had to go through.

724
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well, I'll tell you. We fought mainly the

725
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 4: main force VC units. They were well armed with Chinese

726
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 4: communists and Russia weapons and ammunition. They were indigenous to

727
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 4: the area. They operated in sandpans at night, and they

728
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 4: could move at night. They were wiry, tough, battle hardened

729
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: troops that we had to fight and dig out. It

730
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 4: was not easy in that they were a tough enemy.

731
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 4: I learned to respect him, as did my men early on,

732
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 4: and they they booby trapped the hell out of everything.

733
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 4: They knew the American soldiers' weaknesses. They knew we couldn't

734
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 4: operate in that delta too long. Eventually you'd get up

735
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 4: and walk on a road or the hard stand or

736
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 4: a dyke. So they booby trapped all that. As soon

737
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 4: as you did that, you lost the soldier or two.

738
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 3: And then that just affects the whole entire element that's

739
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: moving along in that area to have to fix a casualty,

740
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: take care of somebody that just got wounded. So they're

741
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: trying to take the whole the whole platoon that's moving

742
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 3: out out of the line, out of the fight.

743
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 4: You know right, You're exactly right. You get a wounded

744
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 4: man like that, you have to stop operations and bring

745
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 4: in metavacs.

746
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: You know right. And then they're like waiting for that.

747
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they're waiting for a yellow smoke to

748
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: be called out so they could throw a yellow smoke.

749
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 4: Yep, no, no, no, you've got it. Yeah, you're exactly right, yep.

750
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 2: Yep, it's it's it's wild.

751
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: So were you wearing solid green odes olive drab ods

752
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: that was at your uniform one of the things.

753
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it was solid, it was solid, drab, a

754
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 4: very light, a very light fabric because of the heat

755
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 4: in the water. And then we wore we wore the

756
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 4: Delta combat boot, which was more porous than the others, uh,

757
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 4: you know, to allow the air to get in and

758
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 4: out as much as possible.

759
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: Of course the water drainage holes.

760
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And we didn't we didn't travel with heavy rucks.

761
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,919
Speaker 4: We didn't need to. We had a small delta pack.

762
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 4: We mostly just carried ammunition, uh, as much ammunition as

763
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 4: you could, and many canteens of water ye uh and

764
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 4: also as h many pouches of first aid equipment things

765
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 4: like that is what we carried. We didn't have the

766
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 4: heavy rucks. At night they would bring in your food, mortar, ammunition,

767
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 4: things like that. So we had to travel light because

768
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 4: just trudging through that delta and that mud, it was

769
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 4: a sucking mud, you know, you can just imagine.

770
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 2: And that was law rockets you were.

771
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were using law rockets right, and the whole

772
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: kit and kaboodle, I mean whatever you could. What was

773
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: your main weapon? Was it an x M one seven

774
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 3: seven car being? What were you using?

775
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 4: Well, no, our main weapon was the M sixteen, and

776
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 4: I carried the AR fifteen as a rifle company commander.

777
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 4: I was a captain at the time. The troops had

778
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 4: an M six and then we had the M sixty

779
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 4: machine gun, and we had the M forty nine grenade launcher,

780
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 4: and we also carried with us on operations a crew

781
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: served ninety millimeters rocket rocket launcher which was shoulder fired,

782
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 4: and each platoon had at least one of them, and

783
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: that was a two or three man team that would

784
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 4: take turns carrying that. That weapon came in handled handy,

785
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 4: often blowing up bunkers and things like that, and then

786
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 4: at night they would bring in heavier weapons. As you

787
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 4: set up your perimeter at night, they bring the mortars in,

788
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 4: set them up, base plates, tubes, eightml watars, and occasionally,

789
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 4: if we had the fields of fire with they bring

790
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: in a fifty caliber machine gun which you could set

791
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 4: up on a tripod. But they came in at night

792
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 4: with the with the helicopters bringing your chowl and things

793
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 4: like that. That's essentially how we operated. Some nights sometimes

794
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 4: they couldn't get those choppers in, so you just went

795
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 4: into a perimeter defense out there pretty much naked with

796
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 4: what you had.

797
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 3: That's what I was just gonna say, because I'm listening

798
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 3: to what you're saying, and you're basically just creating these

799
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 3: quick fobs here and there, just setting up a perimeter

800
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 3: and then they're flying in, and then you're just setting

801
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: up a perimeter around where you guys are at a

802
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 3: defensive perimeter.

803
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 2: And like you said, if they.

804
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 3: Can't fly in, then it's just you guys with the

805
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 3: amo that you took and the canteens of water because

806
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 3: you can't drink the muck that your friends in.

807
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, no, that's right. And they gave you

808
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 4: pills to disinfect the water, but hey, let me tell

809
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 4: you those didn't work, and we were we were not

810
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 4: going to drink the water where they just didn't work.

811
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 4: So water was very key and essential. Ammunition obviously obviously,

812
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 4: and then having enough medical uh uh raps to stop

813
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 4: the bleeding when a soldier, you know, you.

814
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: Probably gus uh you know, chest chest chest packs, you know.

815
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: Uh those kind things.

816
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, those types of things is what you guys

817
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 3: would be carrying because you're seriously just going up against

818
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: the enemy, right and man like tunnels have to just

819
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: been something you weren't prepared for either, right, was there's

820
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: a lot of tunnels in that area.

821
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 4: Uh well, uh, you know, as I say, it.

822
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 2: Was most there was low light lying huh, low light.

823
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 4: The towns and villages were all along these stuees and

824
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 4: canals and the Mekong River and the Basic River which

825
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: flowed into it. Uh so there was some hard stand

826
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 4: where that was. That's where the villages, yeah, were et cetera.

827
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 4: And they dig they did dig some tunnels down in

828
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 4: there where they could, and uh that was another whole operation.

829
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: When you came across the village where there were tunnels,

830
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 4: then you got your guys who were tunnel rats. These

831
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 4: were usually my uh my Puerto Rican soldiers, young, you know,

832
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 4: not real big framed, wiry, and they would get down

833
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 4: in the tunnels with a flashlight and a pistol and

834
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 4: some concussion grenades and flush out what was down there.

835
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: That's incredible, just the spirit of a human being to

836
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 2: go into the unknown of an abyss of a tunnel. Yeah.

837
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I couldn't fit down one.

838
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: You know, I would write, well, I'm six foot four

839
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 2: to seventy the military two thirty. I'm not the tunnel guy.

840
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, you're right, but I had some good

841
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 4: tunnel rats and believe me. And walking point, Brad, walking

842
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: point and going down into the tunnels of the two

843
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 4: most difficult jobs. And if you have manhad in the delta.

844
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: Man, why the point? Why do you think walking point?

845
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: Don't you get to see it first?

846
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: Well, walking the point, you're the first one out there,

847
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 4: and you got one hundred anywhere from one hundred and

848
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 4: forty to one hundred and fifty men in tune formations

849
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 4: behind you spreading out the point. Guy is the first

850
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 4: element up the trail or on the dyke, et cetera.

851
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 4: And he's going to trip the wire. You know, the

852
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 4: enemy's going to see him first, shoot at him first.

853
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 4: So he's very vulnerable, Yeah, very vulnerable.

854
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 3: And then also he's got everybody behind him that he's

855
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: worrying about returning fire over him. So he is basically

856
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: just maybe even laying down flat trying to return fire.

857
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 4: Well, that's another point. You're exactly right. You know you

858
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 4: had to be careful then, you know, not to hit

859
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 4: your own men. Sometimes when you're in a firefight.

860
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: You have to try not to do that, you know,

861
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 2: like I understand it.

862
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's well, I mean, you really tried terribly hard

863
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 4: not to do that, and just like you try not

864
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 4: to hit the civilian population, the innocent civilians. Right, but

865
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 4: war war rob is terrible, I mean battle, battle on ground, battle, infantry,

866
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 4: battle is terrible. I mean, you're going to there's always

867
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 4: going to be some fratricide. There's always going to be

868
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 4: some innocent people who are who were wounded or killed

869
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 4: in the casualties of war. And believe me, it happened

870
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 4: in Vietnam too.

871
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 2: I did you know. It's not like that's the goal.

872
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: It's just that how do you start differentiating when you know,

873
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: you go into a village and there's hooches everywhere and

874
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 3: it's just the consistency, and you're like, you know, you

875
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 3: don't have to wear just a black pajama to be identified.

876
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: You know, could be right.

877
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 3: And they could take off their uniform and blend in

878
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 3: just like a native and you'd be like, yeah.

879
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you don't speak the language they got

880
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: you that that's it. It's like they came here.

881
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 4: No, you're absolutely right. It was an irregular war we

882
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 4: fought in Vietnam, and your US Army was not prepared

883
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 4: to fight that war.

884
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 2: In the nineteenies.

885
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 4: We got better at it as time went on. But no,

886
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 4: it's tough now. I had some two Hoys with me.

887
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 4: I read about this in the book. Two Hoys were

888
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 4: Vietnamese who defected from the VC or the North Vietnamese,

889
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 4: and they came over, were captured by the Americans or

890
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 4: the South Vietnamese, and they were sent to a schooling

891
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 4: of about eight or nine weeks. Uh, and they actually

892
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 4: they actually turned and then they joined US units or

893
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 4: South Vietnamese units. I had three or four. We called

894
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 4: them two hoys, uh, which means open arms, you know,

895
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 4: come over to us. It was quite a great program

896
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 4: they had there. Marines had them up north, we had

897
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 4: them in the South.

898
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: Uh.

899
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 4: And they were they were a big help to you

900
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 4: because they knew the area. Uh. And they could tell

901
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 4: you when you picked up or captured a few, even

902
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: captured a few women, whether or not they were trustworthy,

903
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 4: whether or not they were VC, or whether or not

904
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: they were actually friendly. So you use them an awful lot.

905
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 4: They were. They were real force multiplier for me, even

906
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 4: out at my my level.

907
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because they would just tell you right away.

908
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: They would know, they just know.

909
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 4: And they and they believe me. They hated they hated

910
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 4: the the North Vietnamese and the v C. They saw

911
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 4: what they did to their families. They saw what they did.

912
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 4: They knew they were the communists, and uh uh we

913
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 4: paid them. They were actually on the on the American payrolls,

914
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 4: the most most infantry units in the army atys with them,

915
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 4: at least in the Delta.

916
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 3: Delt That's incredible. I hadn't heard about the Chew hoys,

917
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 3: you know, in that respect, you know, but it makes

918
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 3: total sense because they're also being you know, brutally killed

919
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 3: in the war, you know, and seeing their families die,

920
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: even by the hands of their own countrymen, and so

921
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 3: they're like, you know, I'm over this. I'm not gonna

922
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 3: Communism is not for me. I'm not cool with this.

923
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 4: So no, that's right. I've got a photo, one of

924
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 4: the photos in my book is me with a couple

925
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 4: of my Chwo hoys there.

926
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: That's so cool.

927
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so cool that you're telling us

928
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: about it. We're just going to capture this, you know,

929
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 3: so it's out there. So as you mentioned, one of

930
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: your kids can maybe hit it, hit play, you know,

931
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 3: and be like, what did dad say? To this guy

932
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 3: on this podcast. What are we listening to right now?

933
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 3: He just call him dude. Isn't he a sir? A secretary?

934
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 2: Oh man?

935
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, right, it's an excellent podcast. I feel very comfortable,

936
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 4: and so do you. We're discussing back and forth, yet

937
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 4: you're learning and the facts are getting now for your

938
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 4: radio audience, you know.

939
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's just it's just the best way for

940
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: me to go, right. I like, I want to get

941
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 3: to know you, like my listener or viewer wants to

942
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: get to know you. And this is exactly it. You know,

943
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: your stories are so genuine and captivating the way that

944
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: you present them, and I know there's so much that

945
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: goes on in here. I know you've been privy to

946
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 3: so much in your life and that you're taking things

947
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 3: with you like my father took with him no matter

948
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: how much I pestered him.

949
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dad, Dad, Dad, Dad Dad. He's like some things

950
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 2: just go with me. You know what I'm saying.

951
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 3: I'm just like, okay, So, you know, on behalf of

952
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 3: being a selfless person yourself, you know, and just doing

953
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 3: all these things for the nation, you just seem, you know,

954
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 3: to persevere when someone says you know you can't. You're like, no,

955
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 3: I can't, you know, And and I think that that's

956
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 3: what's inspiring about your book. And you have every right

957
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 3: to call it my toughest battle, and the fact that

958
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 3: your toughest battle was just getting away from polio.

959
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, to prove that you could do.

960
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: Anything you want, you know, and that it's all just

961
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 3: a matter It seems like of mind is what you're saying.

962
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: You know, you just have to put one foot literally

963
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 3: in front of the other and chase your dream or

964
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: your life, right.

965
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, I'm glad you said that rad

966
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 4: for your viewers too, and for me because yeah, my publisher, Casemate,

967
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 4: they were looking at maybe different titles for me, et cetera.

968
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 4: But I selected the title and I hung with it

969
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:46,439
Speaker 4: and kept put it the entire time, and it yeah, yeah,

970
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 4: it does ring true. This has been my toughest battle.

971
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 4: And of course I'm suffering with what they call post

972
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 4: polio syndrome now and being treated at the National Rehabilitation

973
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 4: Hospital in Washington, DC. The polio patients these are kids

974
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 4: like myself in the forties, fifties, and sixties who had

975
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 4: polio and have survived it and are still living many

976
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 4: of us are being diagnosed with what they call post

977
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 4: polio syndrome, where after all these years, your interior horn

978
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 4: cells start to disintegrate again. Your leg GE's weaker and weaker.

979
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 4: So I've got to wear a brace and use a

980
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 4: cane right now. But it really is amazing what I

981
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 4: was able to do in the army all those years

982
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 4: before this hit me. And I'm not complaining, believe me,

983
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 4: because some of my troops have a couple of their

984
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 4: legs off, you know, So I'm splaining about it. But

985
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 4: that is all part of what went into my title.

986
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 4: It's been my toughest battle fighting these debilitating effects of polio.

987
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just did, you know?

988
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 3: And I think that's what probably gives your soldiers the

989
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: confidence to follow you into battle, is because they probably

990
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 3: picked up on some of these things. Maybe you didn't

991
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 3: talk about it, maybe you just kept moving on and

992
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 3: no one needed to know anything about your personal history

993
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: with your medical condition. But people can pick up on things,

994
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 3: and there's probably people chattering and they're just like, you.

995
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: Know what, if he can do it, I can do it. Yeah,

996
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: And if he's going to go, I'm gonna go. Yeah.

997
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 4: Well that's a good point. I mean, no, I never

998
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 4: talked about it, right, I never I never talked about

999
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 4: having polio. I mean, my father wanted to hide it

1000
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 4: from day one, you know. And even when I was

1001
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 4: in the locker room changing, when I was on the

1002
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 4: football or lacrosse teams, I always tried to hide that

1003
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 4: right leg because people could see it was a little thinner,

1004
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. But you're right, the soldiers

1005
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 4: the bet are smart. Some people could pick up on it.

1006
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 4: A lot of people picked up on my limp. I'd

1007
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 4: be walking along and they say, hey, so you got

1008
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 4: a little bit of a limp there, you know. I

1009
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 4: didn't even answer it.

1010
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, up here right right here, right.

1011
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 4: And so uh and I always had a special boot

1012
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 4: and a special limp in my boot. But but they

1013
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 4: didn't see that. And you know, yeah, it's just just

1014
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 4: just one of those things.

1015
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 3: Maybe it's such an entered determination and just your overall

1016
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 3: uh you are in the life you're supposed to lead,

1017
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 3: how about that?

1018
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, well uh uh right, I'll tell you, the

1019
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 4: life you live is the life that you make for yourself,

1020
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 4: you know. And I wrote it afterward in my book.

1021
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've seen that It's just a

1022
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 4: two page afterwards where I wanted to for the reader.

1023
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 4: I wanted to compare the years that I grew up

1024
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 4: to what America is like today. When I grew up

1025
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 4: and you, when your dad grew up, rad there were

1026
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 4: no safe spaces to run to. No nobody lowered the bar,

1027
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 4: nobody felt sorry for you. People worked worked with you,

1028
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 4: helped you, tested you, mentored you. But you were on

1029
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 4: your own. And I'm glad I was brought up that way.

1030
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 4: I had a tough German father, uh And I mean

1031
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 4: he was air for me when I needed him, but

1032
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 4: he didn't baby me. He didn't coddle me like you

1033
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 4: see today, particularly in our academic institutions. It was just

1034
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,919
Speaker 4: it was just a different world. I mean I grew

1035
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 4: up at a time when you were accountable for things. Yeah,

1036
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 4: you screwed up, You got your hand slapped, got your

1037
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 4: ass kicked, where you were thrown in jail for three

1038
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 4: or four days. Yeah, so you were accountable. I also

1039
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 4: grew up in a meritocracy. You were tested, you know.

1040
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 4: I mean I got where I was. I guess because

1041
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 4: either I failed to test or I didn't fail to test.

1042
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: Uh.

1043
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 4: So I grew up at a time of accountability and meritocracy. Hopefully,

1044
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 4: hopefully rad that we're seeing some of this come back

1045
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 4: today in America, but totally different time.

1046
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 3: When I grew up, you know, I got a friend

1047
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 3: that's a recruiter and he said that, you know, he

1048
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 3: he seems to be talking to kids still and they're

1049
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 3: still you know, he thinks that the people that he's

1050
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: enlisting are battle ready, you know. And we've had that conversation,

1051
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 3: you because there's a lot of the speculation that, like,

1052
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 3: our people aren't you know, physically fit or capable. But no,

1053
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 3: I feel that he's doing the right thing to enlist

1054
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 3: these young men and women, you know, and making sure

1055
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 3: that they're capable. And as long as we have these

1056
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 3: career counselors out there in the military who are talking

1057
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 3: to the youth and just making sure that they're able

1058
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 3: to go and talk to them and say, hey, you

1059
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 3: interested in the Marine Corps, you're interested in the army,

1060
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: You want to see what you can do, you like skydiving,

1061
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 3: you know, things like that. It's just you know, give

1062
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 3: him a talk to because you know, they are a

1063
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 3: career counselor. And now, as I learned with like blended retirement.

1064
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 3: These days, there's options in the military that people have

1065
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 3: to enlist in. You know, it's you know, that's why

1066
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 3: I kind of brought up, you know, how did you

1067
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 3: transition from like one president who was say, you know,

1068
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 3: Republican through another president who came in as a Democrat

1069
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 3: and you still maintain age yourself without politicizing you know,

1070
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 3: the military, right and so you know.

1071
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 4: You know, as you get as you're a soldier there

1072
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 4: going through the ranks, major captain, major, lieutenant, colonel, colonel,

1073
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 4: the general officer, Rob, you don't get involved in the politics,

1074
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 4: you know that, you know, I mean each one was

1075
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 4: my commander in chief, whether it was Bush, Obama, Reagan, Trump, Clinton,

1076
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 4: you know whoever. I was down in the lower grade.

1077
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I never never got too involved with them

1078
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 4: except where I except where I did work a little

1079
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 4: bit closer in some organizations where I did get a

1080
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 4: little bit closer, say to the White House. When I

1081
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 4: joined to Reagan administration, as you cited in my bio,

1082
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 4: I was the executive secretary to the Secretary of Defense

1083
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 4: Casper Weinberger and Frank Carlucci in the late eighties. That

1084
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,919
Speaker 4: was a period of time when America was rebuilding from

1085
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 4: those terrible Carter years when he gave away the Panama Canal,

1086
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 4: when he when he sort of demolished the military services.

1087
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 4: We had to rebuild from those four years. And so

1088
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 4: that was a very interesting time working for Carlucci and Weinberger,

1089
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 4: two great men. I had great respect for him. Weinberger

1090
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 4: had been an infantryman in World War Two in the Pacific.

1091
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 4: And yeah, so so, uh, you didn't you didn't really,

1092
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 4: as I say again, as a career officer, you didn't

1093
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 4: get you didn't get involved in the politics. Some administrations

1094
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 4: I would say, probably were more fun to work work

1095
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 4: in than others, you know what I mean.

1096
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 2: Sure, sure you could say that that's fair. You can

1097
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 2: have that.

1098
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 3: You know, maybe there's a pizza party more than the other.

1099
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 3: But you know, yeah, I respect that, you know, I

1100
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 3: respect that you put the US first in front of

1101
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: your name. You know, US Army, US Marines, US name,

1102
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 3: US Air Force. You know all of the men and

1103
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 3: women who serve currently with the US in front of

1104
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 3: their name tape. You know, they took on the US

1105
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 3: oath and I'm grateful for that one percent. You know,

1106
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 3: I just want you to know, so that's positive.

1107
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 4: That's interesting. You said you talked to your friend who

1108
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 4: was a a what a military career counselor, Right.

1109
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: That's what they like to go by. Yes, well it.

1110
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 4: Sounds like, you know, it sounds like he's got a

1111
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 4: good attitude that there are some great young Americans out

1112
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 4: there something that's right. I'm seventeen, eighteen, twenty year old

1113
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 4: kids today that are fit, uh and can serve in

1114
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 4: the military, because you know, you you only get your

1115
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 4: news from what the what they broadcast, right, a lot

1116
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 4: of it, a lot of it. They say sixty or

1117
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,919
Speaker 4: seventy percent of today's youth are not fit to serve

1118
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 4: in the military. Well that really bothers me as an

1119
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 4: American because it wasn't that way when I grew up.

1120
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 4: But right, I hope that's not true, you know.

1121
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: Right.

1122
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 3: And when I'm talking to these guys they come into

1123
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: my you know, I talk to them, I really do, sir,

1124
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: and it's like they seem to just say not us,

1125
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, cool, as long as I'm hearing

1126
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: it from you guys, and you know, friends with them,

1127
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 3: and and you know, if you're someone out there that's

1128
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 3: thinking about joining and uh, you know, you listen to

1129
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 3: this conversation, which is not regular media. I am like

1130
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 3: a soft I am a radio podcast, Jock okay, And

1131
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 3: we are talking and having a normal conversation, and I

1132
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 3: talk to these people like you, and I can say, hey,

1133
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 3: you know, I talk to you the other day and

1134
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 3: this is what you had to say about Vietnam, you know,

1135
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 3: And so it's just it's it's a it's a it

1136
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 3: could be a small world, and it could be a

1137
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 3: good world if we all just you know, stop evil

1138
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 3: men from doing bad things and not just standing by idle.

1139
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 3: And so I guess the youth need to step up

1140
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 3: on that as well. And just know that it's on

1141
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 3: your shoulders.

1142
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 4: Well, it's good that in your podcast, in your radio

1143
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 4: shows like this, you bring these things out for you listeners.

1144
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I do, and I just want to

1145
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 3: hear it here real takes. You know, we all hear

1146
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 3: the straight gut shot. You know, what was it like

1147
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 3: taking your first shot at somebody, or what was it

1148
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 3: like doing this or that?

1149
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 2: But it's different to.

1150
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 3: Actually just have a casual conversation with someone whom you've

1151
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 3: never met, show that you don't have to get to

1152
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 3: each other's throats in this day and age, and you

1153
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 3: can gracefully say it's been great to see you today.

1154
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: Have a nice day, you know, And that's what we

1155
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 3: just did. Ye right, And I blame my parents. I

1156
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 3: blame my parents for raising.

1157
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 2: Me that way.

1158
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 4: Where were you raised, Rod?

1159
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: Oh? So?

1160
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 3: I was raised here in salt in Salt Lake City,

1161
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 3: just outside Hill Air Force Base. So my dad was

1162
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: with the nineteenth Special Forces Group here at Camp Williams.

1163
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I know Hill Air Force Base real well yeah.

1164
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so through the eighties.

1165
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 3: So I transitioned with him when I was seven, I

1166
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 3: moved he was already here in eighty one, and then

1167
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 3: we came in eighty three to Utah from California.

1168
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 2: So I was born in Cali, California.

1169
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: Kid, I was transplanted to Utah. I'm the California they

1170
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 3: fear here California moved here, Yeah, from eighty three.

1171
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 2: Bro.

1172
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you right. No, keep having these veterans

1173
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 4: like myself, thank you and listening to their stories and

1174
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 4: asking them the right questions like you're doing. That's great.

1175
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much, And I just want to

1176
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 3: say that it's been a privilege to talk with you

1177
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: and to get to know you, and you know your

1178
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 3: six boys and your kids, and your grandkids and their grandkids.

1179
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 3: Just like your grandpa and his grandpa. Somebody had to

1180
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 3: fight to get you here today, to get them here today.

1181
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 3: It's just some type of a lineage that we all

1182
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 3: have in our bloodline. We're not here by chance. We're

1183
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 3: here because somebody fought to make sure that we could

1184
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 3: be here. So we have to continue to just be

1185
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 3: the best stewards of what we have at our disposal

1186
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 3: in our lives. And that's what I am is just

1187
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 3: a steward of what I'm available with around me. That's

1188
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 3: what I could do the best with. So I hope

1189
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 3: that my listener enjoyed this show. I hope that they

1190
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 3: go out and pick up My Toughest Battle, written by

1191
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 3: General William Matts legitimately.

1192
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Rod, you can get that. You can get

1193
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: that on Amazon real quick, you know, or you can

1194
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 4: buy it in a Barnes and Noble store.

1195
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 3: Get it on if you get it on the big River,

1196
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 3: leave a review for the general because that helps.

1197
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 2: That helps, leave a review where you.

1198
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 3: Buy your book, all right, if you're going to one

1199
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 3: hundred percent and you know, I've had your time for

1200
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 3: an hour. You still seem vibrant, as if you're ready

1201
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 3: to just get right back into the me Kong. I

1202
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 3: don't think you want to, but.

1203
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 4: I think, hey, Rod, I got my kne right here ready.

1204
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 3: You know, I always want to go visit Vietnam, just

1205
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: so I can say that back. And Nom, I just

1206
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 3: want you know, I want to go there today, just

1207
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 3: to go visit, check it out, see the beach, have

1208
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: a beach party Vietnam, just so I can say back

1209
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 3: when I was at the beach. Okay, a lot of

1210
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 3: respect for you, and a lot of respect for everything

1211
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 3: that you had to go through and everything that you

1212
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 3: had to lead. And I'm not gonna cry. I was

1213
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: gonna have chills and goosebumps and I want my list. Yeah, dude, yeah,

1214
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 3: I know it's real. It's really You're very I know.

1215
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 2: I know.

1216
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 3: Okay, it was just you gave us just a tip

1217
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 3: of the snowflake of the iceberg of what you dealt with,

1218
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 3: and My.

1219
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 2: Toughest Battle talks about it.

1220
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 3: More So, go check out My Toughest Battle, written by

1221
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 3: my new friend Bill Mattz. So thank you so much

1222
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 3: for being on the show.

1223
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 4: No, thank you, Thank you for all you're doing.

1224
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 3: Thank you all right, thank you and again. Check out

1225
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 3: the merch store and check out the book club which

1226
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 3: is soft rep dot com Forward Slash Book hyphen Club.

1227
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 3: And my name is rad On behalf of Bill Say

1228
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 3: in Peace Ye.

1229
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 2: Use them.

1230
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: Listening to self red Radia