1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: all mission control decads. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: you to know. Here's a question. Who doesn't want to 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: belong to something bigger than themselves, Whether it's feeling like 11 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: you belong to a family, to a an organization, to 12 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: a religion of some sort. Uh. For most people, this 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: is a fundamental, primal drive, and there's a bonus. It's 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: cool to be a member of something bigger than yourself, 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: but it's even cooler too many people if the thing 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: that you are a member of is exclusive, if not, 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: everybody can be as special whereas enlightened as you. It's 18 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: actually it's that drive is a huge problem with the 19 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: world today. The intrigue of it. It makes you feel alive. 20 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: It's the basis of so many works of fiction, including 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: things like Obviously, as as you'll see when we uh 22 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: when explore today's topic, folks, obviously the game film with 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: Michael Douglas, and of course the fantastic for Co's Pendulum 24 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: by Umberto Echo. Today's story is a story of curated conspiracy, 25 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: part performance art and part Silicon Valley startup, part push 26 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: for genuine adventure, and part push for cold hard cash. 27 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: We're talking about something called the Latitude Society. Here are 28 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: the facts, here's here's what happens when you join this. 29 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Just put as we explore this, put yourself in the 30 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: mind of a person experiencing this, and you'll get a 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: sense of how cool it is at the beginning. Well, yeah, 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: I think the first thing you have to do is 33 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: imagine that you are yourself doing whatever mundane things it 34 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: is that you do every day, no matter how much 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: you even enjoy. Like we enjoy our jobs. We we 36 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: like doing this, but we have to. We have a 37 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: regimented schedule where we do this over and over and 38 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: over again. This is what we do. We take care 39 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: of our families. We you know, eat, we blah blah 40 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, all the things you do. Imagine that, 41 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: and now imagine that you get an invitation to this 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: thing called the Latitude society. And the way you get 43 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: the invitation is very important, and it generates so much 44 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: intrigue in someone like you, like me doing their everyday 45 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: things that it is there's there's almost no way to 46 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: say no. Yeah, I mean, you know it, because it 47 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: comes in the form of a friend who is essentially 48 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: inviting you into this kind of shared experience with an invitation, 49 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: a actual physical invitation that takes the form of a 50 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: blank credit card in a sleeve like you might get 51 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: at a fancy hotel or maybe even not a fancy 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: hotel for your key card. They're slid into those little 53 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: paper sleeves or the WiFi code has written on only 54 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: this sleeve has a strange kind of geometric symbol on 55 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,839 Speaker 1: it that's embossed and kind of a little shiny and 56 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: and uh and you know, bespoke looking. So it's already 57 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: like reeks of entry. When you pull out the actual 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: card and it looks like a blank credit card, there's 59 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: a website. There's an invitation code where you flip. When 60 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: you flip it over to the part where there would 61 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: normally be like the signature, it says absolute discretion, which 62 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: is sort of a buzz phrase that we're gonna hear 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: repeatedly in this story. It's almost a monstra absolute discretion. 64 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Once you go to the website, you into your code, 65 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: you get a selection of different appointment times, and you 66 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: lock yours in. Then you show up to an address 67 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: in the Mission neighborhood of San Francisco. At this point 68 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: you will have an experience that feels very through the 69 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: looking glass, very Alice in Wonderland. And if you have 70 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: not had this spoiled for you, warning spoilers ahead. What 71 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: happens when you open the door. The website for this 72 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: organization has a has a kind of decadent description of this, 73 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: saying through the door and behind a thick curtain was 74 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: the flux chamber and automated hallway with only one way 75 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: through down a wooden slide at the base of in 76 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: ornate Victorian fireplace mantle, awaiting the visitor. At the bottom 77 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: of the slide was a lobby area with one red 78 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: neonce side reading s and then three doors. So you 79 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: have you know, you already have this really this really cool, 80 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: almost David Lynchy and vibe. Whatever door you choose, you'll 81 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: go through an increasingly narrow passage surrounded by all the 82 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: walls are padded with black carpet, and this is called 83 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: the dark Maze. You hear music, you hear us suscerous 84 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: whispering voices, whispering voices, and that's what guides you through 85 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: this completely dark labyrinth. Your monitored by cameras the whole time, 86 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: which is important later. Uh. And then finally you go 87 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: through this crawl space and find yourself in what they 88 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: call the library chamber. Uh. This is surrounded. This is 89 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: really cool if you see it. It's surrounded by all 90 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: these bookshelves. And then there's one book on a pedestal, 91 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: and it's called the Book of the Latitude. First, this 92 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: book appears to be blank. It doesn't. It's important to 93 00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: note that all of the books in the room are 94 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: the same book. It's the same book that is open 95 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: with blank pages sitting there in front of you. Um. 96 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: And you know, you just curiosity is going to lead 97 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: you to, like Ben said, open it up and you 98 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: find that the pages are blank. But then almost out 99 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: of nowhere, you'll hear a voice. And then these pages, 100 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: or at least the pages that are that the book 101 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: is open to begin filling up with the words that 102 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: are being spoken to you. So it's almost as if 103 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: the book is being written in your presence in that moment, 104 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: and that's on on the left hand side, you'll get 105 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: the words being written out, and then on the right 106 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: hand side you'll actually see an illustration start to form 107 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: a video of sorts playing somehow within this book. Yeah, 108 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it really is sort of an interactive theater experience. 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: If anyone is familiar with the company Punch Drunk who 110 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: did the will continues to do I think probably during COVID. 111 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: It's on hiatus, but hopefully we've back soon. Uh. Incredibly 112 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: beautifully curated kind of theatrical experience in New York, and 113 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: I think there's other versions, but it's called Sleep No More. 114 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: And it's essentially like an interactive theatrical experience whereas you're 115 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: progressing through this actual physical space, you can choose your 116 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: path and things happen based on which path you choose, etcetera. Uh. 117 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: This this really reminds me of that. But the using 118 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: whatever theatrical projection technology uh that they use, essentially what's 119 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: formed before your very eyes. Is this like mythos, this 120 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: sort of like base kind of fable that is at 121 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: the center of the Latitude Society's kind of lore. Uh. 122 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: And you can actually witness this for yourself, um, in 123 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: a couple of places. There's a really good article on 124 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: Vice about it called My Year in San Francisco's two 125 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: million dollar Startup, and also the documentary Bright Axiom, where 126 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: you can actually see it visually. It's it's very much 127 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: worth a watch. Yeah. In Bright Axiom is uh the 128 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: name documentary. You may also be interested in the institute 129 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: uh be worn. They are they they're somewhere between documentary 130 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: and long form infomercial. But this fable is important to 131 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: the Latitude Society. It's when the first pieces of literature 132 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: that people experience when they interact with this society. It's 133 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: often recited before new adventures or new society meetings, which 134 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: they call practice. I want to point this out just 135 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: before we go any further, and I just want to 136 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: make sure everyone understands everything we're describing to you here. 137 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: These are physical experiences. This is not some virtual reality thing. 138 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: This is not some web based experience that you're going 139 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: through your physically, going through those doors down the slide, 140 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: looking at this book filling up with pages, hearing this 141 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: fable for the first time. It's all real, real time, 142 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: you just experiencing it. And then after you have experienced 143 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: this fable, you are sent off on something similar to 144 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: a scavenger hunt. You're you're on a should in the mission, uh, 145 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: you go, you do things like go to a bar 146 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: and have a coded conversation with a bartender, and you 147 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: get this special coin and you end up using it 148 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: to participate in an arcade game which leads you onto 149 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: another to another experience. It's all very just. So this 150 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: entire thing is an introduction to the Latitude Society. Was 151 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: the Latitude Society, Well, it is self described secret order 152 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: dedicating itself to expanding human consciousness, and it's uh vaguely 153 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: locked in a conflict with forces of darkness who are 154 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: trying to stop the society from growing and expanding and 155 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: sending their message out. Pretty exciting, right, pretty exciting way 156 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: to moonlight. So what happens once you pass this first 157 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: adventure You are inducted as a full time member and 158 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: you get access to something called the Night Book. The 159 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: Night Book is like a social network platform, and this 160 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: is where people get together and they tried to decipher 161 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: the various mysteries of practices and philosophy. Uh. They also 162 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: have Like you said that the emphasis here is on 163 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: in person experience. So they also had town hall events. 164 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: You can you can see various video of this. Uh. 165 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: They also had dedicated talks and meetings. This was throughout 166 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: the San Francisco area and active members of the community 167 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: could mingle and they could openly talk about the future 168 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: of society with one another. Because the thing is there's 169 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: there's a fight club vibe here that helps with the exclusivity. 170 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: The society has four kind of guiding principles. Number one, 171 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: by far is absolutely discretion, meaning you're not supposed to 172 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: talk about latitude in front of people who are not 173 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: evolved with latitude unless you want to invite them, in 174 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: which case you give them one of those little cards. 175 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: And really, you know, it feels like it's very secretive, 176 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: but it also it makes sense logically to avoid spoilers. Right, 177 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: is a all about surprise, And as Noll said that 178 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: that phrase absolute discretion was embossed on the slip that 179 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: you would get that the card was inserted into. So 180 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: that's your first your first interaction with the Latitude Society 181 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: after someone you know quietly says, hey, can you keep 182 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: a secret? Is the phrase absolute discretion. And here's the 183 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: thing about that phrase. The people or the creators of 184 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: the Latitude Society took great pains to make sure that 185 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: the member, the user understood that that phrase has two 186 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: different meanings, and one of them was was essentially saying 187 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: that you will be able to have good judgment in 188 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: what you decide to share, what information you decided to 189 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: give out. The other one is essentially just implying secrecy. 190 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: So it's both of those things, right, That's that's what 191 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: Ben is talking about. You get to choose is as 192 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: a member. Who else becomes a member? And they had 193 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: and like, like we're saying, there are several other tenants 194 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: that were very important to Latitude Society. Yeah, value, we 195 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: value experiences over things is that's the second tenant. And 196 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: I think that's something a lot of people can agree with, 197 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: especially you'll find uh this belief common in people who 198 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: have lived a long time. People are at the end 199 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: of their lives tend to enjoy the experiences they had 200 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: or the memories of those, more so than the gadgets 201 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: they accrue. So I get that one third tenant we 202 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: give in order to become part of a story greater 203 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: than ourselves. Think about it. What is giving me there? 204 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: We'll get to it, uh. And the fourth is freedom 205 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: from dogma. So the person who invites you is thereafter 206 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: referred to as your ascendant and you are their descendant. 207 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: It's it's a bit like a less sinister version of 208 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: an upline or down line, a multi level marketing scheme. 209 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: And I want to be very clear, the Latitude Society 210 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: is not multi marketing, and it's also not nexium. And 211 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: it's also not nexium. Anybody who is a member of 212 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: this they don't, for instance, have a quota of other 213 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: people they had to invite or anything like that. But 214 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: you want people to be in known of this adventure. 215 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: So after you've finished this first mission they call it 216 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: book one, then you are given a code word that 217 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: gets you further access on the website, and then you 218 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: get the opportunity to invite other people, theoretically as many 219 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: as you would like. So, just like for COO's Pendulum, 220 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: the majority of people involved knew this was a game, 221 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: but felt it was more fun and more immersive if 222 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: you took it seriously. So many people did, and it 223 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: did not hurt that the group responsible for creating the 224 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: Latitude Society named Nonchalance was staffed by very talented creatives. 225 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: They made it compelling, you know what I mean. It 226 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: didn't seem it seemed real. It felt real, and in 227 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: a way it was. I also wanted to point out 228 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: one tiny detail from the experiential part, the first kind 229 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: of down the rabbit hole visit to that mission, uh, 230 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, facility, I guess we call it. There is 231 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: a part when you go to that window where it 232 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: says the neon, there's like kind of like a shrouded 233 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: figure behind sort of um, I guess, frosted glass. You're 234 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: not quite sure if it's even a real person or not. Um. 235 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: And like a drawer pops out and you're instructed to 236 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: place all of your personal possessions in that drawer. So 237 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: it's got this like inherent kind of decoupling from like 238 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: you know, the hum drum day to day of of 239 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: of existence and identity, not to mention things like you know, 240 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: your phone and all of that, and it's actually taking 241 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: you out, especially like a place like San Francisco Silicon 242 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: Valley that's the epicenter of this type of like decoupling 243 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, from real real life uh and and thrusting 244 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: you into this place where you have to separate yourself 245 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: from all of that those trappings and literally, you know, 246 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: go down a rabbit hole of actual physical experience as 247 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: opposed to virtual. And then at some point, while you're 248 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: experiencing this or while you're hearing this show, you have 249 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: to ask yourself, what exactly is this thing? I would 250 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: say it's immersive theater. It's there are a lot of 251 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: things like this. It's similar to projects from places like 252 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: Sembi Playhouse in the Atlanta area, multiple haunted houses in 253 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: the US around the world, various theater projects in New York. 254 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: It's also a networking opportunity. Liked mentioned this on an 255 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: earlier listener male segment. People tend to want to be Promethean, 256 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: whether or not they have like earned that feeling. We 257 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: want to be the bringers of knowledge often rather than 258 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: the receivers. So this became a way of looking very 259 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: cool too. Friends where colleagues met somebody at a business lunch, 260 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: I think they're dope. You want them to feel the 261 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: same way about you. Slide in one of those little 262 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: black cards. I can't tell you anymore absolute discretion, right, 263 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: and then maybe it leads to better things in your 264 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: working life. But what what else was the point? What 265 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: was actually going on here behind the scenes of this 266 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: behind the scenes underground endeavor. Yeah, it's not like this 267 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: was a cheap thing to produce. You're talking about physical elements, 268 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: like you said, with people working very hard to create 269 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: a story and things, and then going to various places 270 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: throughout the city and planting a bartender, making sure that 271 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: bartender is going to give out the information, making coins 272 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: that have to go. I mean, it's a production. This 273 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: is expensive stuff. Why would you spend all that money 274 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: to do this in multiple locations too? We mentioned going 275 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: to an ark that's another physical location with all of 276 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: these kind of like bespoke sort of psychedelic looking arcade 277 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: machines um, one of which when you put that coin in, 278 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: like you're mentioning Ben, a deity appears to you, which 279 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: is a is a theme that we're gonna see throughout 280 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: the story. Sort of looks almost like the creepy rabbit 281 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: from Donnie Darko, only it's more of like a half 282 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: man's face with these weird eye stocks that don't have eyes. Uh, 283 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: And and and he in sort of like again like 284 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: serial killer voice disguise or voice gives you instructions on 285 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: where to go next, and you know, starts feeding you 286 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: these kind of philosophical lines about the practice and all 287 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: of that good stuff. So what was the point at 288 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: expensive production, multiple rented locations in the city with the 289 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: highest cost of living in the country. It's not a 290 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a small amount of overhead here. 291 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: What else was the Latitude Society and what were the 292 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: motivations for creating it? Will explore this afterword from our sponsor. 293 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. To understand the Latitude Society, 294 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: we have to understand the organization I mentioned earlier, Nonchalance, 295 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: along with two people, Jeff Holl and Cat Miller. Jeff 296 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Hall is the company's founder. He started Nonchalance in the 297 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: early two thousand's. Cat Miller as one was one of 298 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: the primary employees, and there were other people there were 299 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: it takes a village right to make a conspiracy. There 300 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: were artists, community engagement experts, various engineers. The money for 301 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: this came from Jeff Hall directly. He gave He gave 302 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: two million dollars. We came to find out or that's 303 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: that's what's believed that he gave two million dollars to 304 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: get this thing started. How does one end up with 305 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: two billion dollars such that you say, I want to 306 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: weird conspiracy. A good way to make two million dollars 307 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: is to, you know, have money given to you through 308 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: your family. We we've talked about wealth in the United 309 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: States and countries throughout the world that have a long history, 310 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: and how one of the best ways to just become 311 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: filthy rich is to get it from people who came 312 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: before you in your family. So, um, there's something that 313 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: happened with Jeff Hall his father. Uh, he created an 314 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: incredible company that was valued just under five hundred million 315 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: dollars and it was sold to Goldman Sacks five hundred 316 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: and thirty one million dollars. And maybe that's how he 317 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: got that two million dollars. But at least according to 318 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: Jeff in response to that Vice article that we mentioned before, 319 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: he states that he actually made his wealth or it 320 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: began his wealth working for his father's company before it 321 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: was sold to Golden Sacks, and that he became a 322 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: partner when the firm was acquired by Golden Sacks. So mainly, 323 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,239 Speaker 1: and he wrote to the st Fist and you know, 324 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: he wrote the same message device as you said where 325 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: where he was taking issue primarily with the implication that 326 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: he was a trust fund kid. And he said he 327 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: found it but littally, which is understandable. It's not it's 328 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,959 Speaker 1: not a phrase. Uh. I don't think it's a phrase 329 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: a lot of people use to self identify, you know what. 330 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: It's also inherently dismissive and unfair people that are fortunate 331 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: enough to be in that situation. It's one thing if 332 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: you just lean on that money and do nothing, or 333 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: just you know, live some opulent life of privilege where 334 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: you don't actually contribute anything. But I would argue this 335 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: as an example of taking that privilege and converting it 336 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: into something interesting, which I think is uh, you know, 337 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: should be applauded. Mm hm. Well, the Latitude Society is 338 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: not the first generation of this that Nonchalance has done. 339 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: They tried something earlier called the Jed June Institute, which 340 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: I think is a cool name. That's what that other 341 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: documentary in the Institute is about. This was another a 342 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: similar theme. You're crossing through the city of San Francisco 343 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: on kind of a scavenger hunt immersive adventure game. But 344 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: here's the here's the secret. Here's the secret to this 345 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: secret society. And it's something that some of the ascendants 346 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: and descendants did not care for when they learned about this. 347 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: The Latitude Society was not just an artistic statement. It 348 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: was a business and in theory was a very smart one. 349 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: The whole was thinking in terms of a theme park 350 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: of the mind. I would say, is a fair description. 351 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that's a fair description, guys? I think 352 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: it absolutely is. Um And Also, this like this push 353 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: pull between artistic pure artistic expression and creativity and making 354 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: money is like tail as old as time, right, and 355 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: so many are brilliant artists are very bad business people. 356 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: Um And and it's interesting when you see that kind 357 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: of like that I guess, I don't know, conflict. There's 358 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: another interesting kind of group that reminds me of this 359 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: called Mia Wolf and there's a fabulous documentary about them. 360 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: And it started off as this collective of just like 361 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: minded weirdos in Santa Fe, which has kind of a 362 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: stuffy art scene that's like very you know, like uh 363 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: exclusive in the everything is very expensive, you know, and 364 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: kind of boring and like these kind of like seen 365 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: kids like who were into like d I y punk 366 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: type shows and weird music. Started this group to kind 367 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: of be a counterbalance to that. But it became so 368 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: successful they started getting investments from folks like George rr 369 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: Martin uh and essentially turned it into this giant business. 370 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: Some people were less enthused about that direction than others, 371 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: and I think that's what we're seeing here. Yeah. The 372 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: weird thing is there's this intense dichotomy between what was 373 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: presented internally at nonchalance what was presented to people who 374 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: are participating in this in this artistic endeavor. Uh. The 375 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: idea is that they would one day be able to 376 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: like like uh, it was startup thinking right like, let's 377 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: get it going, Let's prime the pump as much as 378 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: we can, Let's go hard on the paint, and eventually 379 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: we will monetize this. We will make it self sustaining. 380 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: Hold said. The vision was to create an immersive narrative 381 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: experience that rivaled at theme park ride and production value, 382 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: but was embedded into the urban landscape of San Francisco. 383 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: And they had a deck or a power point and 384 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: when the when it was presented internally. It was a 385 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: quote growth oriented business model with an identifiable product and service, 386 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: So they were definitely talking turkey behind the scenes. It 387 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: would not be easy to monetize this. It would be 388 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: a tall milkshake because the society was, as you said, Matt, 389 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: a hugely expensive endeavor. We're talking about even even not 390 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: talking about renting multiple properties in a very expensive urban area. 391 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: We're talking about technical design, hours of work I d 392 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: aighting and assembling this stuff, these elaborate, ornate spaces. It 393 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: took three years to build that first place, which really 394 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: does have like this wooden slide. It's crazy. And when 395 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: they finally opened it to members, people weren't sure how 396 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: to react. And it's pretty impressive too that they did 397 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: this for three years without spilling the beans. But again, 398 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: the price tag on that, according to employee former employees 399 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: of the organization, was a cool to mill um. And 400 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: here's why a lot of people got turned off. We 401 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: were talking about money that was started as investment, But 402 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: how did they plan to monetize the user experience. If 403 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: we want to just keep being soul as in corporate 404 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: about it. Once you've got to invited, once you were in, 405 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: and you know you did the you did the book 406 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: law in the first mission, First Adventure. Then we said 407 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: you could theoretically invite as many people as you wish. 408 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: That's because the invitations were sold to you on a 409 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: per card basis. So let's say your Paul Mission Controled decade. 410 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: You want to invite some friends, you want to invite 411 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: your pals Matt Nolan Ben to to this to this adventure. 412 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: Then you pay twenty five dollars a card, but later 413 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: that was raised to thirty two dollars card. And then 414 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: you look around and you see on this website there's 415 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff you can buy very very weirdly specific. Oh. Absolutely, 416 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: And that's why I think it's interesting that people didn't 417 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: kind of the people like got some about of shape, 418 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: because this was like, this is the deal from the beginning. 419 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: You know, you you it's a closed website where you 420 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: can't even log into it until you get that card 421 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: with that unique code. And then once you go through, 422 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, that book experience, that's when you 423 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: get access to what's called the marketplace um and you 424 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: can buy shirts with that slogan absolute discretion, which the 425 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: author of the Vice article found very ironic, which I 426 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: think is sort of the point. It's it's in like 427 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: it's fun, the idea of buying a T shirt that 428 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: says absolute discretion, Um, and yeah, that's right. You buy 429 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: these cards, Uh, you can distribute them to whomever you wish, 430 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: and then it doesn't that make it kind of like 431 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: a I don't know, like a pyramid thing where you 432 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 1: kind of like you you buy one, you get it, 433 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: and then you buy more and then give it others 434 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: and then they give it more and it branches off. 435 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: I guess not not really, it's not. Yeah, it's it's 436 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: it's it's a little different. It's not certainly not taking 437 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: advantage of folks in the same way. Yeah, because you're not. 438 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: You're not making money from the cards that are sold 439 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: after you. And like you know, like I was saying earlier, 440 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: even though they have some some language that's reminiscent of 441 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: m l M S, there's not a baked in quota. No, 442 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: you you don't get in trouble. You don't get twenty 443 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: people per month or something like that. So it's not 444 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: it's not ponzi is. It's not MLM. But they do 445 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: want to make it profitable. Uh. The thing is, when 446 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: you're talking two million dollars, uh, and you're you're trying 447 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: to recoup that based on the sale of T shirts, 448 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: impendance and invitation cards. You're looking at a very large, 449 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: a nearly Sissiffian hill to climb. It would be very 450 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: difficult to cover that initial investment in a reasonable amount 451 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: of time. Some journalists estimated the math and they said, okay, 452 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: we think over the part over the span of the 453 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: Latitude Society during its heyday, maybe two thousand people were 454 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: giving cards and participated in some part of the initiation. 455 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: They went to the website, they never showed up to 456 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: the place, and they showed up to the place and 457 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: then they left and just didn't pursue the rest of 458 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: book one, or they did the whole first book and 459 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: then they said, okay, that's it. It was a great weekend, 460 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: but I'm done. If two thousand people did this, they 461 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: participate in some way, then that means the most revenue 462 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: from that part of the part of the business that 463 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: Latitude could make was about sixty tho dollars, which is cool, 464 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: but it's not two million. And so later they did 465 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: something that teed off a lot of the members a 466 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: lot of the existing members who were very into this 467 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: adventure in society, they instituted an annual membership fee is 468 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: over three d bucks. Uh, it's still less than a 469 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: burning Man ticket, people are quick to point out. Uh. 470 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: But people were like, what is the mission of this 471 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: changing And to the you know, to the participants, it 472 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: felt like maybe it was, but to the creators, no, 473 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: this was just a further pursuing the original plan. I 474 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: think it's almost like the they started, you know, the 475 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: members started taking things upon themselves because they like, really, 476 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: the Vice article is I think the most straightforward, Like 477 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: the film is interesting, but it almost has an agenda 478 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: a little bit like it it really like you said 479 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: at the top end and almost feels like a weird 480 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: kind of commercial for the thing, and it feels like 481 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: it has a little bit of a of an agenda. 482 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: But the Vice article is from the perspective of someone 483 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: that goes through the whole process, and what ends up 484 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: happening is, you know, this person starts wearing that absolutely 485 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: Discretion T shirt and using it to identify other people 486 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: who have done the experience in the wild, and then 487 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: those people start connecting with each other on like forums. 488 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Then they start actually doing kind of little you know, gatherings, 489 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: uh that are sort of I guess I'm not sanctioned 490 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: or whatever they need it to be sanctioned, but they 491 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: really do start to form a community around the lore 492 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: and around the whole experience of this thing, you know, again, 493 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: because it's almost like a religion at that point, or 494 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: it starts to at least have the sense of community 495 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: that a religion can have it its best. And so 496 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: I think those people who really start to get a 497 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: real value out of this in their lives start to 498 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: see it becoming quote unquote becoming more commercial. Maybe that's 499 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: where they start not digging that because they feel like 500 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: it's taking something that's very special and personal to them, 501 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: uh and you know, bastardizing it in some way. But again, 502 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: to the creators, this is what they had planned all along. 503 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: So is it really them doing anything but what they 504 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: already kind of set out to do. Yeah. And the 505 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: writer for Vice, Lydia Lawrenson, she she had quotes from 506 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: several members, Um, I don't want to spoil the things. 507 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: She had several quotes from members who were talking about 508 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: this very thing, like why the money, why is this happening? 509 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: And one of the big takeaways is that this felt 510 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: to them like a gift that they had been given, 511 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: like someone handed them a free card. Then they got 512 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: to go through this experience, and then they got to 513 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: choose whether or not they paid for anything. Right now, 514 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: they were being told that they had to pay, and 515 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: it was like a gift became a burden essentially. But 516 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry what had to pay in order to continue 517 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: doing what going to these things like they were doing 518 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: real world events, so they those were official events that 519 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: there were official events, but then also just little little 520 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: gatherings of of members privately right right, similar to a 521 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: less citister version of squirreling in scienceologies, which we can 522 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: talk about a little bit later, but squirreling is UH 523 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: scientology term for when someone takes what they describe as 524 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: l Ron Hubbard's technology or tech and they use it 525 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: in an unsanctioned way. It's it's similar to maybe the 526 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: way that the UH Catholic Church in days of old 527 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: looked at Protestants, you know what I mean, like, hey, 528 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: you're taking you're taking stuff that we both know is true, 529 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: but you're doing the wrong doing it the wrong way. 530 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: You're doing it the way like the film industry looks 531 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: at pirrating movies, you know what I mean, maybe, yeah, 532 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's like you're stealing. You're basically saying you're 533 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: taking our stuff and you're using it, you know, and 534 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: and and you're not like giving us our due or 535 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: like yeah, mad, I don't know, like the paying part 536 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: certainly is at the heart of it. But yeah, you're 537 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: exactly right now. I think squirreling is a perfect comparison. 538 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: Let's think too about social media in the Internet. One 539 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: thing that the Internet has made abundantly clear in every 540 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: every culture, in every iteration, is that if people have 541 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: something for free, there's something deeply offensive to people if 542 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: that changes to a paid service. You know what New 543 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: York Times, right, I say that as a guy with 544 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: a subscription uh really really quickly, just slightly slightly off 545 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: off the subject. But it's sort of like what you know, 546 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: Apple is talking about potentially putting podcast siloing podcast behind paywalls, 547 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: are making it a subscription thing, or it's a little 548 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: vague what they're talking about doing, but that would be 549 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: the exactly what you're talking about. Because Apple is sort 550 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: of the arbiter of like this industry of like free content, 551 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, add supported free content, and if all of 552 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: a sudden that change, I think people would like lose 553 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: their minds m. And the reason I mentioned social media 554 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: is because we can see clear parallels here, Right, social media, 555 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the platforms thrive on exclusivity in the beginning, Right, 556 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: I can only have a Facebook page if I go 557 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: to this school, or then if later if I go 558 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: to a school. Um. We we see this time and 559 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: time again. People want to be promethea, they want to 560 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: be in the know. And then as it grows and 561 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: more people are involved, more people are aware of this 562 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: this fight club, then the problems grow as well. It's 563 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: a symptom of al if I wanted to be all 564 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: ted talky and pop say about it symptoms. Yeah, because 565 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: they're they're they're doing testing on those early users. You know, 566 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: they're like they're literally beta testing everything, including that experience 567 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: that we described to you at the top of this episode, 568 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: like going in and checking out that book, down the slide, 569 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: all that stuff. They're testing to see how people react. 570 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: And it's very very helpful to keep it low low 571 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: number and how effective like it is in like making 572 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: people want to continue on you know what I mean, 573 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: Like that experience that first pop is what really gets you, 574 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: you know, kind of converted almost right where you're either like, wow, 575 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: this is something really special. I was given this gift. 576 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: They had to really tailor that experience to to get 577 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: the exact right kind of you know, punch to make 578 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: people feel that way, and imagine how cool it is, 579 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: just objectively, how cool it is if you're say a 580 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: a at a at a bar somewhere it's called the Sycamore, 581 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: and you're rocking, you're absolute discretion t and then you 582 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, you're just hanging out and you see somebody 583 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: come in like furtively and have a weird whispered conversation 584 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: with the bartender and they get this coin and they 585 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: turn around and they see you and their jaw drops 586 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm one of them. Like people love 587 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: that stuff. That's why you have all these coded signals 588 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: that like the when we did our episode on secret languages, 589 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,240 Speaker 1: right you, a city in a society speaks to itself 590 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: in an ecosystem, and I guarantee you that on any 591 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: given day in a city, there are people who are 592 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: subtly communicating to one another right under your nose in 593 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: one method or another, a signal by something, signal by 594 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: a piece of jewelry, a particular piece of clothing, et cetera. 595 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's so cool, But you 596 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: guys are right. People had people have problems with this, 597 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: Like a guy named Thomas Loads who was speaking with 598 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: Lydia Lawrence and over Advice, objected because he felt the 599 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: monetization was a blow to the things about the society 600 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,479 Speaker 1: that were important to him and his colleagues. It gave 601 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: them meaning. It seemed like there was a space where 602 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: they were coming together as a community in a non 603 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: performative way. He felt like there was a genuine connection 604 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: and they were taking taking dedicated time to reflect on ideas. 605 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: And a lot of these people were in, you know, 606 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: very stressful day jobs. They're they're very go go go, 607 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: you know, with high stakes and stuff. So the the 608 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: idea that you're hanging out with people and it's not 609 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: about a work thing, it's just hanging out with people 610 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: because you like hanging out and you like the stuff 611 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: you do together, that that's a beautiful feeling, uh. And 612 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: that seemed very meaningful to people, and they liked being 613 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: in a secret Society. There was a story. We're part 614 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: of the story where the audience and we're the author. 615 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: That's amazing. But you'll notice the student listeners, we've been 616 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: talking about the Latitude Society and past tense. Why I'll 617 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: tell you after a word from our sponsor. So latitude problems. 618 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 1: We're pretty I think we're pretty clear about that. And 619 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: the thing is people agree on what they like about it, 620 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 1: but then they disagree on what they didn't like. As 621 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: Jeff Hole put it, his number one problem that he 622 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: saw people having is that people weren't sure how to 623 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: interpret this, how to digest it. He said, the Latitude 624 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: Society may have served multiple purposes, but ultimately it could 625 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: not be all things to all people. So maybe everybody 626 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: just wasn't on the same page. Maybe that's where the 627 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: issues began. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Uh. And 628 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: there's a there's a quote here again from that Vice 629 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: article from Matt Weinberger. He's a person who you know, 630 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: took part in in the Latitude Society, and here's this quote. 631 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: Some people treated it as a game. That makes sense, right, 632 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: Some people as a social club and a networking opportunity, 633 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: and some treated it as a religion, and he mentions 634 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: that at some point there was a Reddit thread created 635 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: by you know, someone who had heard about the society, 636 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: uh and then joined. And then this person who created 637 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: this thread believed they joined a cult. So they took 638 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: it very, very seriously and laid out a lot of 639 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: the things that were not supposed to be spoken to 640 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: non members. And this person, Matt is saying that it 641 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: kind of spoiled the fun of the society itself after 642 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: everybody knew what it was, or at least a certain 643 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: number of people. And here's the other Latitude wasn't just 644 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: a business. It was a genre of business that we 645 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: will call a startup. Startups have different rules. Startups have 646 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: a very high rate of attrition. Startups can do enormously 647 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: wonderful and disruptive things. They can also fall flat. They're risky. 648 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: Like a lot of startups, Nonchalance did not seem to 649 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: have a very clear focus, in the opinion of observers um, 650 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: and they just ran out of money for the Latitude 651 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: Society before they could finish the overall arc of the 652 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: story they wanted to tell. The founder himself estimates that 653 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: the daily cost of the Latitude Society just keeping the 654 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: lights on, keeping the rent paid, keeping the weird coins 655 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: in circulation that was three grand a day. Uh. And 656 00:39:54,560 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: apparently they didn't even have a very let's say developed 657 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: business plan or well not business plan, but they weren't 658 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: keeping books particularly well. They didn't have, um, some of 659 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: the most basic kind of book keeping sheets that you 660 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: would have to have, especially with an operation that's expensive 661 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: in a city as expensive as San Francisco. Um. You know, 662 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: any business startup or otherwise keeps something called a profit 663 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: and loss uh ledger um, which allows you to keep 664 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: track of the comings and goings of money. You got 665 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: to spend money to make money, but if your losses 666 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: outweigh your profits, that's not a good look. Um. And 667 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: this could well be an example of, you know, one 668 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,399 Speaker 1: of the I guess luxuries or privileges of being independently 669 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: wealthy and sort of doing this like as a personal project, um, 670 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: not being super meticulous about the bigger picture of the 671 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: of the finances. Yeah. Yeah, there's something a little bit 672 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: aristocratic about it. I could see critic taking that stance. 673 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: I'm always reminded of there's an Italian publishing house that 674 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: I really I really love, I respect the books they 675 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: put up and they're called RESOLTI and I believe it's 676 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: RESULTI the owner is this old or was this old 677 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: school Italian aristocrat, And I was reading an interview with 678 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: him where one day he just decided to build a 679 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: hedge maze, like a huge hedge maze and invite his 680 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: friends over. That's the kind of stuff that most people 681 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: can't do, you know what I mean? And now we 682 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: have to ask ourselves to your point, noal is is 683 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: the perspective then for this person? Are they just thinking 684 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: I am, I am creating this thing that I want 685 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: to give to you, and the only reason money becomes 686 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: involved is because I want to make it a thing 687 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 1: that can stay around, you know, instead of something ephemeral. 688 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: But at nine dollars a month, Uh, this these conversations 689 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: have to happen. Um. So there were a couple of 690 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: ideas and how to how to stem the financial hemorrhaging, 691 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: and one of those was, let's stop emphasizing physicality. Let's 692 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: move entirely to virtual reality. And that's that's a bummer. 693 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: That also makes me love your New York Times example, Matt, 694 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: because we've seen so many print publications say okay, we're 695 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: gonna go entirely online. We're going to keep a subscription fee. 696 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 1: And so for people who have subscribed to a paper 697 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: and received a physical copy for years and years and years, 698 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,720 Speaker 1: they feel like they feel like they're getting robbed because 699 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: they don't have the thing. And this is more extreme example, 700 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: I would argue, because the entirety of the focus of 701 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: the Latitude Society was in person adventure, a type of 702 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: a very clever type of augmented reality. That's really what's happening. 703 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,280 Speaker 1: So of course folks are are going to push back 704 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: against this. And there's another article by a former member 705 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 1: UH called The author's name is Caveat Magister, and Caveat 706 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: compares compares this again to burning Man and says that 707 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: the exclusivity of the Latitude Society may have gone too far, 708 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: leading to that practice that scientology would call squirreling, and 709 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: the there was a really i would say, inspiring organic 710 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 1: thing to happen. Active members were like, you know, I 711 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: don't really need to do the official experience, and I 712 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: don't really need to worry about my ascendant or whatever. 713 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: I've met some people. We can just hang out, we 714 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: can do our own thing. Inspired by this, I don't 715 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: think there's anything wrong with that. It's kind of like, 716 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, at some point if you're a fan of Legos, 717 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: at some point you don't worry about what you're supposed 718 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,800 Speaker 1: to build from a box you buy and just build 719 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: your own stuff. They're still Legos and you're still having 720 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: a heck of a time. UM. I just say, I 721 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 1: don't see anything wrong with what these folks are doing. 722 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,399 Speaker 1: And by this point, of course, yes, they're paying three 723 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: hundred something UM a year for a membership, and of 724 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: course that the push to then have a membership whittled 725 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: away at the membership very quickly immediately, UM. And you 726 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,359 Speaker 1: know that that's that's obviously a problem if you're trying 727 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: to build a user base essentially like a startup does 728 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,120 Speaker 1: want to do. Now, we've got some other criticisms from 729 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,879 Speaker 1: people here about the Latitude Society and what was happening there, 730 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: and a big criticism comes from someone named Rebecca Power, 731 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: who was known by the writer of that Vice article 732 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: that we discussed there, and she didn't have a great 733 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: experience essentially going through it. Um. And it started on 734 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 1: that book. One experience where you know, she looked at 735 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: the book and everything, because she was contacted almost immediately 736 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: after that by the person that invited her to the society, 737 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,880 Speaker 1: and he stated something a little strange, Uh, something we 738 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: didn't know it before. This is that in many of 739 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: the rooms there, the physical space that you enter, there 740 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: were cameras with you know, lights as cameras generally do have, 741 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 1: like a CCTV camera has a light that lets you 742 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: know you're being watched, or that the cameras on at 743 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,719 Speaker 1: least or recording. And he mentioned her that, oh, I 744 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,720 Speaker 1: was watching you when you when you went through the fable, 745 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: when you know, you sat down and you got that 746 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: book read to you. Um, And that kind of creeped 747 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: her out a lot, just the thought that someone was 748 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: there actually watching her the whole time, not interacting with her, 749 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: just surveilling her and observing her. So that was the 750 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,759 Speaker 1: first little thing that happened. But then she felt it 751 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: got weirder from there. Yeah, she saw an imbalance in 752 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 1: the agreement, some kind of information as symmetry would be 753 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 1: a dry phrase for it. Uh, you do have to 754 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: sign this terms of service thing, right, But as Rebecca 755 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: Power found out, uh, there wasn't a formal procedure for 756 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: releasing yourself from it, and she said, I know the 757 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 1: employees are monitoring us, but who is monitoring them? And 758 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: there's another good point, and you I totally forgot about this. 759 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 1: That's before you even set up your appointment, right when 760 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: you sign that, so you know you have no idea 761 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,359 Speaker 1: what you're signing up for, and you're just gonna put 762 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,840 Speaker 1: all your info in there exactly exactly. And there's that 763 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: that detail you mentioned about being observed is so creepy 764 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,400 Speaker 1: because she found out this Facebook message that the person 765 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,879 Speaker 1: who invited her I've been watching it the whole time. 766 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,240 Speaker 1: So she got spooped and she asked that the group 767 00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: deactivate her membership. So this is where we get like 768 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: to the Coe pendulum, has the performance become real? Point? 769 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,439 Speaker 1: She says, when I left, I became a security risk. 770 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,240 Speaker 1: People I knew made vague threats that I would regret 771 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 1: leaving or talking about it. A roommate of mine stopped 772 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,520 Speaker 1: telling me where he was going when he left the house. 773 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: Friends I trusted contacted me and played stupid about their 774 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: own involvement in order to suss out what I knew. 775 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 1: That's wild, Like imagine imagine you can't like imagine you 776 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: go to Disney World and you're supposed to spend a 777 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: week there, and you go for a day and you're like, 778 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: all right, I'm not gonna go and then you like, 779 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: you go home early, and the next day you get 780 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 1: these weird calls and messages from your friends who are like, 781 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: better not talk about disney World. Keep keep The first 782 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: rule of Disney World is you don't talk about Disney World. Yeah. 783 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: I don't think that those parks would function that way 784 00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: if that was. I love it, though, it's like the 785 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: uh think in my head, it calls you late at night. 786 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: Come on. Although, isn't there that secret members only club 787 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,359 Speaker 1: at Disney World. Yeah, that's my secret, you know. But yeah, 788 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be nice. The menu seems cool. I 789 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: want to stay on Rebecca Power, just for a moment. 790 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,399 Speaker 1: So one of the other things that she really didn't 791 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: like there is that she went to an actual gathering, 792 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,320 Speaker 1: one of these things they called practice or a practis praxi, 793 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:39,640 Speaker 1: and someone there essentially Dockster, not really but just you know, 794 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: mentioned they knew what she did and knew who she was, 795 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: but it was said aloud. That's one of the main 796 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 1: reasons that she left and the really interesting thing about 797 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 1: Rebecca is that she continued this kind of work afterwards. 798 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: She started a thing that had a different name at 799 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: the time. It's changed names, but now it is called 800 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 1: Hoax h O a X. It is in it's in 801 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and it's the same kind of thing. It's 802 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: a company that creates experiences. They're they're an interactive design 803 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: studio and they like to create quote novel situations and 804 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: powerful experiences. So the same kind of thing. She continued 805 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,479 Speaker 1: on to do that stuff, just outside of this other 806 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 1: group Nonchalance. That's a very good point, man. Uh So, 807 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: now we're reaching the end, and we talked in past tense. 808 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: You see some of the problems. Some people are worried 809 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 1: about their own privacy. Uh some people have what they 810 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 1: feel are ethical objections to the business model. And then 811 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: also you can understand this from the perspective of the 812 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: employees of Nonchalance and the people responsible for making these experiences. 813 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 1: They might feel kind of underappreciated, like, hey, man, I 814 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: gave you a thing. I'm just trying to I'm trying 815 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: to keep it going, you know, And I mean you 816 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,240 Speaker 1: can't be like you can't go to the sandwich shop, 817 00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: get a get a free sandwich every day and expect 818 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,759 Speaker 1: those sandwiches to just appear. Um, we have to. It's 819 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: a terrible comparison, but you get it. So after the 820 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: membership fee roll out, there's internal division within nonchalance. Employees resign, 821 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 1: and then Jeff Holl sanctions and article about the society 822 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,000 Speaker 1: where he says various critical things or various not you know, 823 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: super happy fun times, holding hands, singing Kumbaya things about 824 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: the organization. And this itself is a violation of that 825 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: absolute discretion policy, is it not. In less than a 826 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,239 Speaker 1: week after that article publishes, Jeff shuts down the website. 827 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: He leaves a note that the San Francisco House of 828 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:05,479 Speaker 1: Latitude is closed and the Society closes down on Monday, September. Uh. 829 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: This was news reportedly to several of the employees involved. 830 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 1: Has happened, you know, recently in the days of the pandemic. 831 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: Some people just showed up to a job that no 832 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,759 Speaker 1: longer existed, which is a massive bummer, It really is. 833 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: I do just want to point out too. I think 834 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: we've made it pretty clear, but a lot of these things, 835 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,760 Speaker 1: this idea, of these rules quote unquote, are very loose, 836 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,280 Speaker 1: and it's not like there's a set like a code 837 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,319 Speaker 1: of ethics or conduct, you know. I mean, even their 838 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,000 Speaker 1: whole idea of of discretion uh is ironic in a 839 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,040 Speaker 1: lot of ways because like it's a secret, but it's 840 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,319 Speaker 1: also tell your friends. So it's it's very loose, all 841 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,840 Speaker 1: of this stuff, and and and to the point where 842 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: it's clearly meant to be a bit of an ironic 843 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,759 Speaker 1: performance art thing, almost commenting on the types of the 844 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: way social media works, uh. And and the kind of 845 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,480 Speaker 1: you know what you're what you're saying then about how 846 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: exclusivity in and of itself makes things more attractive. And 847 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: now we've got things like this new social media platform, 848 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:15,400 Speaker 1: uh Clubhouse that's once again based entirely on exclusivity, and 849 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 1: it's very much a Silicon Valley thing that's about networking 850 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,279 Speaker 1: and being more anonymous, less tied to your persona, and 851 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,400 Speaker 1: more just based on the worth of the things that 852 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: you say to other members. UM. So I think there's 853 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of that that's sort of some of 854 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,880 Speaker 1: the folks that really started taking this seriously seemed to 855 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: have maybe maybe have been lost on them a little bit, 856 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:41,319 Speaker 1: which is interesting to me because again, it's the definition 857 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,919 Speaker 1: of what this is changes based on the perspective of 858 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 1: the people and their degree of involvement. So after Jeff 859 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,960 Speaker 1: Hole closes down Latitude Society egoes on Facebook and you 860 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:03,640 Speaker 1: post an update. Uh. Some people copied and pasted it, 861 00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,319 Speaker 1: and then the reactions were mixed. Some folks were like, 862 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,239 Speaker 1: you know, I get it, um, and I sympathized with you. 863 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: Some people were angry, don't you're ruining the game or 864 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,000 Speaker 1: you're ruining the community that I've come to love. Uh. 865 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,520 Speaker 1: The whole rights the following He says, I've been rolling 866 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,920 Speaker 1: a boulder up a hill for four years and it 867 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:28,440 Speaker 1: kept getting heavier. It was my most audacious undertaking besides parenthood, 868 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 1: and getting to the top meant success. Recently, as my 869 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,360 Speaker 1: shoulders began to give out under the weight, I looked 870 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 1: around and seeing no relief in sight, I decided to 871 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,680 Speaker 1: do the most healthy thing I could possibly do. Let go, 872 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,440 Speaker 1: Oh man, where do you think that boulder went? I 873 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 1: wonder what's on the other side? You know, to the 874 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:56,800 Speaker 1: third game? Right, that's right. You go throughout the cities 875 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,520 Speaker 1: of the United States that you're you're searching for. It's 876 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:04,920 Speaker 1: what a twenty foot tall boulder that's just rolling downhill somewhere. Yeah, 877 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,800 Speaker 1: randomized locations, the pieces are there, will workshop it. Yeah. 878 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,680 Speaker 1: So he writes this thing on Facebook, and then he 879 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 1: also writes a large post on the website, which is 880 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: the latitude dot com And if you go to the 881 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: way back machine at archive dot org you can find it. 882 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 1: It's https called slash slash, the Latitude dot Com slash 883 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: book Slash one. And if you but then in you 884 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,759 Speaker 1: can find this thing that he wrote called Epilogue from 885 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,120 Speaker 1: the San Francisco House, and you can get a lot 886 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,880 Speaker 1: of the info in there, and you can really read 887 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 1: at least Jeff's version of events and how how the 888 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: whole thing ended and why, And you know, he said, 889 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,279 Speaker 1: it'll be an enduring, an escapable mystery. How a game 890 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: built to offer shared whimsy inspiration play can result in 891 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,520 Speaker 1: trauma for the people most closely involved would feels like 892 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: an acknowledgement of the of the conflicts that the employees had. 893 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,160 Speaker 1: On the night the society closed, about a hundred people 894 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,080 Speaker 1: went to to a local bar that's important during that 895 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,880 Speaker 1: first mission, the Sycamore, which I mentioned earlier, uh, and 896 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,920 Speaker 1: they got together they commiserated. Um I believe many of 897 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 1: the former members or people who have met one another 898 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,919 Speaker 1: through this remain friends today, which is awesome. Uh, It's 899 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 1: sad it was an abrupt end to such a bold endeavor, 900 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:39,400 Speaker 1: but again, people still remember their times. Their experiences in 901 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,960 Speaker 1: the group left an impression. And you know, like your 902 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,279 Speaker 1: to your point about Rebecca Power, this is likely not 903 00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,840 Speaker 1: going to be the last thing of its sort, because 904 00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,239 Speaker 1: I don't. This is just my opinion here. I think 905 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,320 Speaker 1: this stuff is cool. I would I like the idea 906 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,640 Speaker 1: as long as no one's getting hurt, you know, full 907 00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,239 Speaker 1: speed ahead. But what do you think? What what you 908 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,000 Speaker 1: guys glean from this? Would you participate in something like this? 909 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,880 Speaker 1: If you got a mysterious on the loop or no, 910 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: it needs to be better than an envelope? What would 911 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,240 Speaker 1: it be? Dude? If I get like that, I'm I'm going, 912 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm there, Please break me out of the 913 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 1: thing a little bit. Uh. In on non chalance dot 914 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,200 Speaker 1: com n O n C H A L A n 915 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,200 Speaker 1: c E dot com slash about, you can read the 916 00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:32,279 Speaker 1: mission mission statement essentially of Nonchalance and this is the 917 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,840 Speaker 1: way it starts. Picture in your mind a cartoon character 918 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: sleep walking. Now it goes on to talk about this 919 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,240 Speaker 1: thing that they call divine nonchalance. This is this concept 920 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:47,160 Speaker 1: that the sleepwalking character somehow moves on through the city 921 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,320 Speaker 1: without ever getting hurt somehow because if they're just casually 922 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,160 Speaker 1: walking even though they're asleep, and nothing has hurt them 923 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,440 Speaker 1: just by chance. Really, what this is speaking to me, 924 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,600 Speaker 1: whether they're saying saying it or not, is imagine that 925 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,680 Speaker 1: we are all just sleepwalking in our day to day lives, 926 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,959 Speaker 1: and the what they are going to do is break 927 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,200 Speaker 1: us out of that, if only momentarily, with these kinds 928 00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,040 Speaker 1: of experiences that they're creating, like the j June Institute. 929 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 1: I think the thing they created, which is a whole 930 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: could be a whole other episode or just you know, 931 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: something for you to check out on your own that 932 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: we won't spoil here. Um, it's worth your time. It's 933 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:29,680 Speaker 1: fascinating because we definitely spoiled the latitude society. Yeah, heavily 934 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 1: spoiled that part. But this the efforts put in too 935 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,840 Speaker 1: changing people's minds slightly, to getting us to think a 936 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,240 Speaker 1: little differently by placing us in what they call a 937 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,880 Speaker 1: genuine space and giving us us a user and experience 938 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:53,959 Speaker 1: like this. I think that is genuinely worthwhile. I think 939 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,960 Speaker 1: you can you can create great change in an individual 940 00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,600 Speaker 1: in a group of people that way. Uh, And it 941 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,920 Speaker 1: could be highly positive, but it could also but it 942 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,200 Speaker 1: could also be really dangerous because it feels like the 943 00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:11,560 Speaker 1: same thing that Nexium did, but with the nefarious goals 944 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,400 Speaker 1: at the center of it, right, and with any cult 945 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,520 Speaker 1: that started, it's the same kind of thing. You're going 946 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,960 Speaker 1: to give somebody a little different experience and you're going 947 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,160 Speaker 1: to try and change the way they're thinking a little bit, 948 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,840 Speaker 1: remove part of that identity that's kind of weighing them 949 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,160 Speaker 1: down every day, and in this case, instead of shaping 950 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:33,080 Speaker 1: them too, then just constantly fund money, which they kind 951 00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,400 Speaker 1: of did at the end there, right, like a startup. Um, 952 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't that crazy, right, I don't know that. 953 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,040 Speaker 1: To me, this feels positive. Yeah, I think we're all 954 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 1: kind of on the same page there. Like it does 955 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: feel like overall and principle, these are cool things to 956 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,080 Speaker 1: have in the world. Bust out of the matrix, you 957 00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,320 Speaker 1: know what I mean, hack your cognition in your perspective. 958 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:59,640 Speaker 1: What's what's not to love? But it is so fascinating 959 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,200 Speaker 1: because these things are possible and they're worth doing. We'd 960 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: love to hear your opinions or your experiences with things 961 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,760 Speaker 1: like this, because I'm sure there are more examples of 962 00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:15,520 Speaker 1: this phenomenon out there. And also question folks listening today, Uh, 963 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,440 Speaker 1: if you were creating something like this, what sort of 964 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,200 Speaker 1: experience would you give people? And maybe the maybe the 965 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:26,240 Speaker 1: other question, the other side of the coin here is 966 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:31,920 Speaker 1: when do endeavors like this go too far? Let us know. 967 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,360 Speaker 1: You can find us on the internet. Where on Facebook? 968 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,160 Speaker 1: Or on Twitter? Where on Instagram? Uh, we'd like to 969 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,560 Speaker 1: recommend here's where it gets crazy on Facebook if you 970 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,800 Speaker 1: are a Facebook user. We also have a phone number. 971 00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,400 Speaker 1: If you do not sip the social meeds, you can 972 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,000 Speaker 1: dial lists directly. That's right. We are one eight three 973 00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,520 Speaker 1: three st d w I t K three minutes is 974 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,880 Speaker 1: the time you shall have to leave your message. Please 975 00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:58,880 Speaker 1: let us know if it is okay to use your 976 00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,720 Speaker 1: message on one of our are weekly listener male episodes, 977 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,560 Speaker 1: and let us know what to call you are are 978 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,600 Speaker 1: not call you or if you want to be completely anonymous, 979 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,040 Speaker 1: we are absolutely cool with that. That's right. Call us 980 01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,280 Speaker 1: and let us know the kind of experience you want 981 01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,600 Speaker 1: to give people. I think I told you guys about 982 01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: the interactive cannabis slash hallucinogen facility I want to create, right, yeah, yeah, 983 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,280 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. I have elaborate plans for that, and one 984 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,120 Speaker 1: day it's gonna happen. So if you're a Jeff Hole 985 01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,160 Speaker 1: like individual and you've just got two million, eight million 986 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:35,320 Speaker 1: dollars lying around, hit us up. If you don't want 987 01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 1: to do that stuff, please check out our show on 988 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,439 Speaker 1: YouTube YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. You can watch 989 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,320 Speaker 1: videos of all of these episodes that are coming out, 990 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,440 Speaker 1: especially are strange news and listener male episodes. You'll find 991 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,120 Speaker 1: stuff there. Um check it out like and subscribe as 992 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 1: you do if you're down with it. And if you 993 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,680 Speaker 1: don't want to do oh and also, hey, why not 994 01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,800 Speaker 1: leave a review on whatever podcatcher you us to listen 995 01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 1: to this show. It would be great just to see 996 01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,400 Speaker 1: any and all of those It helps the show more 997 01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,840 Speaker 1: than you know. If you don't want to do any 998 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,080 Speaker 1: of that stuff, you can always reach us the good 999 01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,440 Speaker 1: old fashioned way. We are conspiracy at i heeart radio 1000 01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:35,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is 1001 01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,600 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 1002 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,720 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 1003 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.