1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Part two of Reading is Magic. It's one more thing. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 2: I'm th. 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 3: I love reading practically more than just about anything on earth, 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 3: and at this point in my life and I came 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: across a good thing on why literature is good for 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 3: your brain. 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 4: I haven't brought it on the air because I don't 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 4: know if anybody cares, but there are claims and it 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 4: kind of fits in with what you were talking about 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 4: yesterday and today that literature does things to your brain 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 4: that are good for you overall. But most people don't 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 4: read literature, and they do fine in the world and 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 4: did before literature came along, and well after it's gone. 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 4: So I don't know, I don't know what any think 15 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 4: of that. 16 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 2: You got to define your terms, do fine and stuff. Well, 17 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: it depends on your personality type of thing. But anyway, 18 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: if you missed yesterday is One More Thing podcast, just 19 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: grab it and listen to it now and then this 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: is part two of that discussion. Long story short, absolutely 21 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: brilliant piece of writing by a fellow by the name 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: of Sam Chris with a KKR I SS who's talking 23 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: about scientists from the Soviet Union who went into a 24 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 2: remote village that was completely illiterate and found to his 25 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: shock that the people had a tremendous problem thinking abstractly 26 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: at all. And again we covered that the last time around, 27 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: meaning abstractly, Oh my gosh, well they Well, we gave 28 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: a bunch of examples yesterday, and presumably people have just 29 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: listened to that. So I don't want to go through 30 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: it again, anything outside of their direct personal experience, the 31 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: ability to imagine other things and other ways of approaching whatever. 32 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: But I want to start with this note from Mike 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: Lawyer from Chicago, longtime friend of mine and of the shows. 34 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: He really enjoyed it, He said, I wanted to share 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: something I learned as an undergrad as a chemistry major. 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: Most of us thought very literally, using mathematics and science 37 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: and not really thinking outside the box because we were 38 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: looking for an absolute answer. My favorite chemistry professor, Steven Zumdahl, 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: pointed out that the great scientists also could think abstractly. 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: Michael Faraday, for instance, discovered benzene, which is a ring 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: shaped organic compound. Nobody could figure out scientifically what the 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: structure was because the number of carbons and hydrogen didn't 43 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: add up properly. Faraday had a dream of a snake 44 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: circling around and grabbing its tail, and then he thought, wow, 45 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: maybe it's ring shaped, and he took a look, and 46 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: sure enough. The professor then explained how an appreciation for 47 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: art in music helps us advance our scientific knowledge. 48 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: So that's a good professor. 49 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 4: My son's good at one of my kids, and predicators 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 4: really good at that abstract thinking where I will do 51 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 4: something and it's embarrassing. Why do you do it that way? 52 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 4: I said, what if you did this first, then that 53 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 4: that would be a lot better, And I just never 54 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 4: thought of it. 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, funny might go to a consultant for that, as 56 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: my wife. So anyway, we ended up the last yesterday 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: is one more thing with a discussion of how in 58 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: these remote, completely illiterate areas, there were formerly scientists, astronomers, mathematicians, poets, 59 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 2: et cetera, but those folks had vanished from the world 60 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: along with these sophisticated literary culture, et cetera. So anyway, 61 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: Chris writes today, the same thing seems to be happening 62 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: to us. The kids can't read. I don't mean they're 63 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: incapable of sounding out letters and forming them into words, 64 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: although an increasing proportion of them can't do that either. 65 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: In the US, literacy peaked around twenty fourteen has been 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: sliding since. Forty percent of fourth graders have below basic 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: reading abilities, which means they struggle to extract any means 68 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: from a written text. The number of illiterate students has 69 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: been rising every year since twenty fourteen. Part of that 70 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: is rampant illegal immigration, but anyway, don't want to get 71 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: hung up on that. But even when students can perform 72 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: the mechanics of reading, it no longer seems to make 73 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: their minds start working in text like ways. It's an 74 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: entirely different set of technologies producing their mental processes. And 75 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: when they come to the written word, they come to 76 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: it from the outside. And he gets into how professors 77 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: at elite universities increasingly report their students are no longer 78 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: capable of reading an entire novel or even a thirty 79 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: page extract. Some of them have difficulty making it through 80 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: a single sentence. Instead of reading and understanding anything, they're 81 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: willing to pay three hundred thousand dollars for the privilege 82 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: of dumping an entire text into chat GPT and submitting 83 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: its response as an essay. Probably the most alarming index 84 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: of this was a study in which a group of 85 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: English majors holy cow at two well regarded public universities 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: in Kansas. 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: I think we can guess what they are. 88 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: It's not like they're se The Kennes were expected to 89 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: read the first seven paragraphs of Bleak House by Charles 90 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: Dickens and explain after every sentence what they thought was happening. 91 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: Only five percent of the students could produce a detailed 92 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: literal understanding of the text one out of twenty. The 93 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: rest were either patching together vague impressions from a bunch 94 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: of half understood phrases, or could not comprehend. 95 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: Anything at all. Yipes in specifico. 96 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: One particular stumbling block was the novel's third sentence, which 97 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: describes London in December. 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: I will read that sentence to you now. 99 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: As much mud in the streets as if the waters 100 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,799 Speaker 2: had but newly retired from the face of the earth, 101 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: and it would not be wonderful to meet a megalosaurus 102 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: forty feet long or so, waddling like an elephantine lizard 103 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: Upholburn Hill. The students found this figure of language impossible. 104 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: They can only read the sentence with the assumption that 105 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: Dickens was described the presence of an actual prehistoric reptile 106 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 2: in Victorian London. You know, in their defense, and boy, 107 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: I love kicking the young. But in their defense, words 108 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: like fantastic or in this case wonderful had a different 109 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: meaning at the time. 110 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: And you can get hung up on that. 111 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: A little bit, because he means wonderful as in, like 112 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: we would use the word astounding, it would not be 113 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: astounding to meet a megalosaurus forty feet long or so, 114 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: waddling like an elephant teen lizard up Holburn Hill. 115 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: I think they might get that more. 116 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: But anyway, they couldn't get that. 117 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: It was a metaphor. 118 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 2: One respondent glossed it like this quote, it's probably some 119 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: kind of an animal or something or another. So yep, 120 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: I think we've encountered some kind of an animal these 121 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: characters have met in the street. The study assessed this 122 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: person is a competent rather than a problematic reader, because 123 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 2: they did at least managed to form an idea of 124 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: what the text meant, even if it was wrong. 125 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: Wow. 126 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: And then he gets closer to his point. He points 127 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: out that Bleak House is not an elitest text. It 128 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: was mass entertainment at the time and When Dickens visited 129 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: America in eighteen sixty seven eighteen sixty seven, over one 130 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: hundred thousand people paid to see him. 131 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 4: Speak, often called the world's first worldwide celebrity. 132 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: Dickens, Yeah, yeah, anyway. Today, a person studying English literature 133 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: at a degree level responds to his work in essentially 134 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: the same way as an illiterate Uzbek peasant in the 135 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, incapable of thinking outside of immediate sensory reality. 136 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 4: I'm going to say to my kids the next time 137 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 4: I'm disappointed in them, You're like an illiterate Huzbek peasant 138 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 4: from the whenever the eighteenth century. 139 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: Your face isn't. 140 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 2: Illiterate, but ho'sbek peasant in the nineteen thirties, they'd replied, 141 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: And here it comes. The situation is not likely to 142 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: get better. Every advance in communications technology creates a new 143 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: generation of people, progressively more divorced from the abstractions of writing. 144 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: In the late twentieth century, television was bad enough to 145 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: inspire jeremiads like Neil Postman's Entertaining Ourselves to Death excellent 146 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: book I read at the time. Now it seems almost benign. 147 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 2: Our supposed cultural elites keep congratulating themselves on their ability 148 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: to watch an entire episode of a prestige drama without 149 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: distractedly poking at their phones, as if mad Men were 150 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: a kind of penitential mental gruel. 151 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: Wow, that's some good writing. 152 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: I'm old enough to remember the first time I ever 153 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 2: went online, and a lot of my contemporaries seem to 154 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: have the same story. They love to read as children, 155 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: but mysteriously lost interest in books around the time that 156 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 2: permanent broadband connections started appearing in every home. Interestingly, You're 157 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: kind of the opposite, aren't you. 158 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 4: I've had to work at it, though, Yeah, true, Yeah, 159 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 4: I had to make it. It had to be a goal 160 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 4: was to reintroduce myself to reading and long form reading 161 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 4: and do it on a regular basis, because when I 162 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 4: first started back up again a couple of years ago, 163 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 4: it is hard, really hard. 164 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: And I think, to mister Chris's point, I'm reading Tim 165 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: Sanderfer's fabulous new book Proclaiming Liberty. I want to say 166 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: declaring Liberty because Liberty Proclaire. I finally got a right 167 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: proclaiming liberty, and it was a bit of a struggle 168 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: at first. After about five ten minutes, I get into 169 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 2: the groove and I'm really good at it. 170 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, you got to break through that first few minutes. 171 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 4: That's because I was a voracious reader. 172 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: Like for my entire life, a kid, a youngster, a 173 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: college student who's all you know, most of their intellectual 174 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: consciousness has been post internet and god help them post smartphone. 175 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 4: And you've probably never had. Reading is an enjoyable experience 176 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: ever once in your life. So what would draw you 177 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 4: to it? 178 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: So they're not waking up an old muscle like I am, 179 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: They're trying to develop a completely new one. 180 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 4: I'm so excited my son finding a book that can 181 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 4: grab people, you know, getting them into reading is the 182 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 4: challenge really, to get started, I think. And my son, 183 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 4: who's super into dinosaurs, is reading the original Jurassic Park book, 184 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 4: which is supposed to be really good. I've never read it, 185 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 4: the actual book, Michael Crichton. Anyway, he loves it. He 186 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 4: can't he can't stop reading it. I'm just so happy 187 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 4: thenk God, he's reading an actual. 188 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: Book, all right. Here's the Wyatt matters. 189 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 4: And also their eyesight so good that they can sit 190 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: down with those paperbacks with those tiny little print in 191 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 4: a dimly lit room and read them, which I can't 192 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 4: do anymore. 193 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: Oh please, no, no speaking of torture. 194 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 2: Um bar Okay, here's why it matters, And I wish 195 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: we had. I suppose we have time to read the 196 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: whole thing, but I don't know if anybody wants to 197 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 2: hear it. But he points out that this is not 198 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: a world we're prepared for. Oh, he says, he talks 199 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: about what we just talked about kids who don't have 200 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 2: those muscles. Uh what about the cohorts? Uh, they can't 201 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: parse complex sentences. At least they can identify words. But 202 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: what about the cohorts who don't have a gaping hole 203 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: in their education at twelve? 204 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: But at six? 205 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: What happens when the baby's currently being raised by AI 206 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: power dolls grow up when it's their turn to govern 207 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: the world. This is not a world we're prepared for. 208 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: All democratic politics assume a literate population, people who are 209 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: willing to think in abstract terms about the kind of 210 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: world they want to live in. And I would add 211 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: in the ability to shape the future too, even if 212 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: they're not going to be in it. Without that, democracy 213 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: becomes a kind of tribal headcount or a struggle for 214 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: state resources between competing patronage networks. This is what lies 215 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: behind a lot of the growing liberal panic over the 216 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: decline of literacy. For a growing course of people who 217 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: are in the Atlantic, we're recoiling into pre Enlightenment conditions. 218 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: Of absolute domination. 219 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: A population that can no longer think for itself will 220 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: end up voluntarily seeding power to strongmen or demagogues. The 221 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: end of literacy is the end of public reason. A 222 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: postliterate world will be unreasonable, irrational, full of anger and madness, 223 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: and people eating each other in the streets. 224 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 4: They um don't know if I'm sir, that that second 225 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 4: half will happen in a post literate world. 226 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: What to cannibalism? 227 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 4: If I had to bet, I'd bet probably we're going 228 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: to go that direction. Will we be a postliterate world? 229 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 4: One hundred percent? One hundred percent? Where if not? Basically, 230 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 4: they're already the age of reading lasted three hundred years 231 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 4: and it's over and it will never return. 232 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: There are many paragraphs to this, We'll post the entire 233 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: thing at Armstrong and Getty dot com. 234 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm just going to hit you with his conclusion. 235 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: Getting back to Marshall McLuhan, I think McLuhan was right 236 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: that the postlitter age will have more in common with 237 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: primitive society than it does with the industrial modernity that 238 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: produced it. After writing, we will once again live in 239 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: a world defined entirely by our direct sensory experience. But 240 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: now our direct sensory experience won't be of the things 241 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: that physically surround us, but the images streaming through our phones. 242 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: It's likely that before very long, absolutely all those images 243 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 2: will be generated by AI. In the same way that 244 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: Tolstovian peasant has a deep spiritual knowledge of the land, 245 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: we will have a deep spiritual knowledge of tungue, tungue, tongue, sahor. 246 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 2: I don't even know what that is. I hope I'm 247 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: allowed to say that on a podcast. I have a 248 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: feeling it's something very interneting. The politics of the future 249 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 2: will be cautious, conservative, pragmatic, and unadventurous, grounded an empirical, 250 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: empirical experience instead of fanatical ideologies. We will no longer 251 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 2: try to think outside of the things we can see. 252 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: It's just that absolutely nothing we see will be real. 253 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 4: Oh why, I don't see how this doesn't happen. 254 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: Therefore, those who control what we see are in control 255 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 2: of our entire perception of reality, which is kind of obvious. 256 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 4: I was watching an ad yesterday for some minor clothing outlet. 257 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: They couldn't have they're an upstart, they couldn't have a 258 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 4: ton of money to spend. They had this unbelievable ad 259 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 4: that was obviously AI, with the AI rugged man modeled 260 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 4: wearing their stuff and all that that I'm sure they 261 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 4: put together for free. And I thought, this is clearly 262 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 4: there'll be no human beings and practically anything soon, because 263 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 4: why would there be Why would you even have the 264 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 4: time to have somebody drive across town to film something 265 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 4: when you can just pick the man or woman, put 266 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 4: them in the clothes you want, have them say what 267 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 4: you want, and you're done. Yeah, this is much less 268 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 4: important than the discussion. But I heard a jingle on 269 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 4: the radio the other day and it was like not 270 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 4: a good one, like where did you get those singers? 271 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: And who wrote that? Like do you not read the papers? 272 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: I mean, do you not have access to the internet. 273 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 4: There's a Oh, you're thinking that humans made it, and 274 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 4: you're thinking, A I could have done a much better job. 275 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 2: It was like if a hardware store with two locations 276 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: in a very small city in America, had like hired 277 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: a couple of gals from the church choir and dashed 278 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: off a quick jingle. 279 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: It was just not good, dude. 280 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 4: Meanwhile, you heard of AI handsome crafts sounds like it 281 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 4: came out of a La studio songs for our end 282 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 4: of our show every single day. Oh yeah yeah, but yeah, 283 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 4: with all that going on, no, nobody's going to read. 284 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 4: I'm one hundred people aren't going to read. They just aren't. 285 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 4: And that's never coming back. I can't even imagine the 286 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 4: scenario where that's ever going to come back. 287 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: And all they'll have is a deep spiritual knowledge of 288 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: tongue tongue tongue. 289 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: Sohre, are you gonna look that up real quick? 290 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 4: I'm going to look that up us something obscenehing compelling. 291 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 4: It's a sexual act in which you get a dog 292 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 4: and a woman and you can't say this. 293 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: Oh thank you. I like dogs and women, but I 294 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: like to keep them separate. 295 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: Oh it appears to be an AI cartoon. 296 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 4: Character that's popular. Yeah, it's kind of funky looking. I 297 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 4: feel like I've seen that. Okay, my house be really popular. Yeah, Okay. 298 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 4: The point is something young people. 299 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: Like speaking of being online. 300 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: Tungue tungue tongue SO who are sometimes shortened a tongue 301 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: tongue sho a or triple T, is a viral internet meme. 302 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: It was introduced blah blah blah. 303 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: The character has since been featured in many songs and 304 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: video games, including Steal a Brain, Rotten Fortnight. 305 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 4: I gotta throw that at my kids today, like just offhand, 306 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 4: like I know what it is. 307 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: What would play? It was tripled what would. 308 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 4: Tungue tungue tongue so? That's so. Think of this I 309 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 4: do with triple T. You'll never remember the name. Think 310 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 4: of this, That's what I'll say. See if my high 311 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 4: school son rolls his eyes at me so hard to 312 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 4: get stuck in the back of his head, and then happens. 313 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 5: Sixty seven records that shit, it's six seven, he would 314 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 5: jump on the car, throw himself into traffic. 315 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: No, get it wrong, say seven six. That's what my 316 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: parents were doing. Yeah. 317 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 5: Anyway, as a young kid, I remember the school library 318 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 5: and teaching us the Dewey decimal system and the difference 319 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 5: between fiction and nonfiction books. 320 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: Those days are gone. 321 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 4: Well, I guess that's it.