Speaker 1: Carol, She's a queen. She's getting not afraid of Just
Speaker 1: let flue Ca learn this sounds learn. This episode of
Speaker 1: get re podcast was so much fun. I did it
Speaker 1: with one of my best friends of all time, gin Wayne.
Speaker 1: We have been friends for over a decade. We have
Speaker 1: done so much stuff together, from writing songs. We were
Speaker 1: in a trio stealing angels together. We did The Amazing
Speaker 1: Race twice together season twenty two, where we got fourth place.
Speaker 1: Season twenty four we went back for All Stars and
Speaker 1: we got second place. We talk all about all of
Speaker 1: our our journey together. We talked about stories from the
Speaker 1: Amazing Race. We talked about music, We talked about failing, succeeding,
Speaker 1: how you overcome, how you keep going. And now Jen
Speaker 1: is in the hit trio Runaway June. It's an all
Speaker 1: female trio and they have a top ten song. By
Speaker 1: the time you hear this podcast, though, it's probably going
Speaker 1: to be a top five song because it's killing the charts.
Speaker 1: It's called By my Own, Buy My Own Drinks, and
Speaker 1: jin It's just all about perseverance, staying strong, not giving up.
Speaker 1: And it's so inspiring and so much fun to have
Speaker 1: this conversation. So get excited. Here's Jen Wayne. Hello, Hello,
Speaker 1: I'm here with gin Wayne. What's going on? Jin? I'm
Speaker 1: just staring at your baby bump. Listen all. I mean
Speaker 1: it's big. I mean it's beautiful. By the time this
Speaker 1: episode airs, I will probably have a child. Isn't that crazy? Yes?
Speaker 1: That is crazy. And for all the listeners, Caroline and
Speaker 1: I haven't known each other forever, so to the babies
Speaker 1: have we don each other like fourteen or fifteen maybe
Speaker 1: a long time. I mean I've known you since the
Speaker 1: day you moved to Nashville pretty much because yes, because
Speaker 1: you moved into the house that you remember list Oh
Speaker 1: my god, and Beth wait, Beth Cooper Potter, and you
Speaker 1: were driving you were going to Forever twenty one, still
Speaker 1: my favorite store, and you were like about to break
Speaker 1: up with your boyfriend. You didn't know how to breake
Speaker 1: up with them. I'll never forget that was about right,
Speaker 1: hot mess. I mean I think we met and I
Speaker 1: was like twenty three and you were like twenty four.
Speaker 1: And now I'm actually when I was twenty three and
Speaker 1: you were twenty two. Do you speak your agelong? Yes? Okay, great,
Speaker 1: just a grand old thirty seven. I'm a grand old
Speaker 1: thirty six, So we have known each other for like
Speaker 1: thirteen years. Yeah, because I remember hearing through the Great
Speaker 1: One because I had moved here to Nashville from Texas,
Speaker 1: small town girl to be a country music singer. And
Speaker 1: my friend from college, Beth, was like, got this house
Speaker 1: on Craigslist, just like, yeah, John Wayne's granddaughter is moving
Speaker 1: from California and she with her Chihuahua and she's going
Speaker 1: to live with me. And I'm like at that point,
Speaker 1: I was like, why aren't you going to live in
Speaker 1: a mansion, Like, you know, you're John Wayne's granddaughter, you
Speaker 1: should be living somewhere, Like don't you have like a
Speaker 1: mansion in a limousine service and all sorts stuff. Wish
Speaker 1: that would have been cool. Instead, he moved into the
Speaker 1: house with like six girls and you lived in a
Speaker 1: closet basically. One girl lived in a tent in the backyard. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I had a room. So what happened was everyone listening. Um,
Speaker 1: I rented from this girl who said it was going
Speaker 1: to be me and her and my one dog and
Speaker 1: I get there and she had literally rented every crevice
Speaker 1: of the house out. She rented the sunroom out, the
Speaker 1: closet out the attict out. There was a girl living
Speaker 1: in a tent in the backyard, like aigon cord, so
Speaker 1: she had a fan in there or something like a
Speaker 1: TV or think or something. It was so crazy and
Speaker 1: like all these dogs, remember Rebecca and her dog to
Speaker 1: her dog was so scared of everything. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: was my first Nashville experience. So I met you like
Speaker 1: literally right when you moved to town. Yeah, the day
Speaker 1: I think it was the day. I remember you were
Speaker 1: driving in that car and we were both kind of shy,
Speaker 1: and so we sort of started like linking up trying
Speaker 1: to do music together, like kind of almost instantly. Ish Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: instantly we started writing together. But you had a deal,
Speaker 1: you had a record deal, you moved to town. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, more a Griffin Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: listen if you don't know more. Griffins started like Will
Speaker 1: of Fortune, right, yes, Jeopardy and we all of Fortune.
Speaker 1: He was like the first late night talk show guy.
Speaker 1: He was like before Johnny Carson, and he's your Griffin
Speaker 1: show godfather. He was like like a godfather. He wasn't
Speaker 1: my godfather, but he just like was like a grandpat
Speaker 1: to me. You know, he was so sweet and he
Speaker 1: wrote the theme song for Jeopardy and he had a
Speaker 1: number one song in the country with like lovely bunch
Speaker 1: of coconuts. You wrote that, Yeah, I've got a lovely
Speaker 1: bunch of coconuts lazy. No he did not. Yes, No,
Speaker 1: that was too was what crazy? Yeah, he was like
Speaker 1: so talented with creative brain to write that strange song.
Speaker 1: I know, I love that in the Jeopardy theme song. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he was pretty awesome. It's a saying. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you moved to town because you were in California, and
Speaker 1: then how did you decided to move to Nashville. Well,
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be a songwriter, and so I
Speaker 1: just knew that the best songwriters in the world were here.
Speaker 1: And I kind of like tried to do it a
Speaker 1: little bit in l A and I would write with
Speaker 1: people you know here and there. But I just knew
Speaker 1: that if I wanted to be the best, I had
Speaker 1: to be around people that were the best. And I
Speaker 1: was definitely not even close being the best. So um,
Speaker 1: I moved here. And if I would have known how
Speaker 1: hard it was, then I would have never moved. I Mean,
Speaker 1: I was so naive I had no idea. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I was just and I should have quit probably so
Speaker 1: many times. I don't know why I kept going, but
Speaker 1: I just kept going. No, seriously, you know, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that happens to this musical
Speaker 1: entertainment journey is it doesn't happen right away, and you've
Speaker 1: really got to want it, because if you don't want it,
Speaker 1: you're not going to get it. Because this town can
Speaker 1: swallow you love, even though it will we wade you out.
Speaker 1: Everyone's kind and loving and it's amazing community. But you've
Speaker 1: got to want it. You gotta kick butt and you
Speaker 1: gotta stay with it. Yeah. Well it's so weird because sorry,
Speaker 1: if you guys hear like a hard breathing, that's my job. Blue.
Speaker 1: Last time I saw him, he was this tiny little
Speaker 1: thing and he is so big. He's had a few
Speaker 1: dog bones in his life. So um. But you know
Speaker 1: it's really weird is some people moved to town and
Speaker 1: it happens like that. Like some people it just happened
Speaker 1: so fast, and then some people it takes forever. And
Speaker 1: I think you have to like not get caught up
Speaker 1: and worrying about the people that made it so fast
Speaker 1: because I feel like I got I had a little
Speaker 1: bit of that for like five years. I'm like, all
Speaker 1: my friends are making it, All the people have grown
Speaker 1: up with are all successful now, and I'm still at
Speaker 1: the very beginning, you know. And it's hard to like
Speaker 1: not compare yourself to that or not look at that
Speaker 1: and be like, shoot, you know myron either you just
Speaker 1: kind of have to focus on yourself and just keep going.
Speaker 1: And comparison is the joy? Is that what that quotas
Speaker 1: comparison with joy or something like, oh, I've never heard that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, So tell me a little bit about your journey.
Speaker 1: So tell me how it all went. Break it down
Speaker 1: for me, tell me and also for everyone listening. Jin
Speaker 1: was a professional tennis player being the key word before
Speaker 1: she became a hit singer songwriter. She was a professional
Speaker 1: tennis player before, so you have many talents. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you was definitely the key word. You still got a
Speaker 1: girl of Um. Well, so I moved to town with
Speaker 1: that deal and we made a record with Carl Jackson
Speaker 1: and blue Grass blue Grass. I loved it and it
Speaker 1: was kind of a bluegrass record. Um, but unfortunately we've
Speaker 1: passed away before it was done. So the deal kind
Speaker 1: of just faded, and um I so I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I've got to figure something else out. And I remember
Speaker 1: I got this manager and she was Madonna's manager, and
Speaker 1: she was awesome, but yes, Greece, but she lived in
Speaker 1: l A. And she didn't really know Nashville. And she's like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's just do a showcase. And I had played like
Speaker 1: five live shows in my life. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: I was doing. And so she set up this huge
Speaker 1: showcase at the Quarter. Every label in town was there.
Speaker 1: There were news crews, they're like people were waiting outside
Speaker 1: the door, and I was so green because you're John
Speaker 1: Wayne's granddaughter and you're gorgeous, and so everyone was curious,
Speaker 1: like what is this going to be like? And it
Speaker 1: was very bad. It was very bad. And it was
Speaker 1: crazy though, because you have to fall sometimes. Like I
Speaker 1: felt so hard that night, like I thought I did
Speaker 1: well and then I got passed by every single label
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god. And I just
Speaker 1: remember like wanting to just move home, and I thought
Speaker 1: like I could never show my face in this town again,
Speaker 1: like everybody knows I failed, had everybody passed on me,
Speaker 1: Like I can't I can't stay here, And I don't
Speaker 1: know why I did stay here. I think I just
Speaker 1: was so stubborn. How do you deal with moments like
Speaker 1: that when you feel like you've really put yourself out there,
Speaker 1: You're super vulnerable and exposed, and like you said, you
Speaker 1: felt like you had failed. Obviously, it's not a failure
Speaker 1: because it all led to where you are now, but
Speaker 1: at the time it felt like and it was a
Speaker 1: failure at the time, which is okay, it's okay. How
Speaker 1: do you decide that you're going to show your face again? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you tell yourself in those moments? Don't honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just remember going home and just bawling, crying.
Speaker 1: My best friend Dre was with me, and we like
Speaker 1: went out and had sushi, and I think I drank
Speaker 1: all the sake in the world that night, but I
Speaker 1: think I like cried for probably a week of just like,
Speaker 1: how am I gonna show my face again? And I
Speaker 1: don't really remember what the moment was, but I do
Speaker 1: remember my mom calling me and saying that my grandpa,
Speaker 1: who's John Wayne, and you know, one of the most
Speaker 1: famous people in the world, and he didn't really become
Speaker 1: a star till he was in his fifties. He over
Speaker 1: two D seventy movies, and he really didn't come into
Speaker 1: his you know, huge stardom until later in life. She
Speaker 1: was like, so, don't give up, like you're you're just
Speaker 1: doing it the hard way, and so I just stayed.
Speaker 1: And that's when, honestly, you and I started writing a lot,
Speaker 1: and you were kind of in a position where you
Speaker 1: were super talented, but you were kind of afraid to
Speaker 1: put yourself out, and so I think it was just
Speaker 1: easier to do it together, you know. I think that's
Speaker 1: like for me, always been super helpful to have friends
Speaker 1: and support and like doing something together with someone, it's
Speaker 1: like you give each other the strength. So I think
Speaker 1: that's what we did for each other. We locked in
Speaker 1: and it was fun too. It was awesome. And then Taylor,
Speaker 1: we had a little wild children's granddaughter, hopped on board,
Speaker 1: kept everything spicy, and she taught I feel like both
Speaker 1: of us a lot because she just had no inhibition.
Speaker 1: She'd get on stage and she was just the less
Speaker 1: fearless and I was all fear So I think she,
Speaker 1: you're like, really taught us how to be a performer
Speaker 1: in respect of it to get out of our shell
Speaker 1: because in interviews she was so sometimes too real and
Speaker 1: too wrong. But it taught us how to be honest
Speaker 1: and how to activate that part of ourselves instead of
Speaker 1: just being so nervous that everything how to be perfect,
Speaker 1: because I think we saw with her that people really
Speaker 1: responded to her outrageous realness. Yeah, and putting herself out there,
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there. Yeah. Yeah. It was like boot camp,
Speaker 1: I feel and our band was called Stealing Angels. I
Speaker 1: feel like, even though it didn't pan out, it was
Speaker 1: the greatest thing that could have happened for all three
Speaker 1: of us. Yeah, just to prepare us for this entertainment
Speaker 1: journey totally. And that's like looking back now seven, it
Speaker 1: took a long time to get here, but like every
Speaker 1: single moment, every single failure, every single thing you did,
Speaker 1: leads up to where you are now, Like you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have the tools to be where you are now if
Speaker 1: you hadn't have done that, you know, and you really
Speaker 1: believe that with Stealing Angels, I mean I learned some
Speaker 1: from you girls being on stage and then radio, like
Speaker 1: met so many radio people which got you and I
Speaker 1: are next job being on the other side of the
Speaker 1: music business about that. Well, so Caroline and I we
Speaker 1: just don't we just don't give up. But we there
Speaker 1: was a label and they hired us to be promotion
Speaker 1: a promotion team together a duo which they promotion is
Speaker 1: the one that goes around promoting artists to radio people
Speaker 1: across the country. And he hired us. Yeah, switch sides.
Speaker 1: We got on the other side, which is so important
Speaker 1: to learn the other side of the music business. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they hired us because Caroline and I knew radio
Speaker 1: from being in a band. They were like, this is interesting.
Speaker 1: We've never no one's ever really done this before. They've
Speaker 1: never heard it, hired an artist to be on this side,
Speaker 1: and we did really well. Disclaimer for everyone listening, there's
Speaker 1: only always one regional per region. But j and I
Speaker 1: were like, we're not doing it if you don't hire
Speaker 1: us together. We're like, we're not going to go on
Speaker 1: the road and talk to all these radio pds who
Speaker 1: we love. But like we've been used to being together
Speaker 1: in a trio or like us just working together, Like
Speaker 1: we're not doing this solo too lowly out there on
Speaker 1: the road. It's too hard, it's too hard. And also
Speaker 1: we knew we were good, so we're like, we knew
Speaker 1: we wanted to hire us, and we're like, this is
Speaker 1: the deal or not. And that was when we got
Speaker 1: a company card. That company card that was that was
Speaker 1: the real deal. I've never had a company car before.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, that's so funny. I know,
Speaker 1: and Jin you the responsible one. So Jin was always
Speaker 1: one like super organized and like playing everything out, and
Speaker 1: I felt like I was always like the little sister.
Speaker 1: But we had such a good dynamic. I know we
Speaker 1: did because you brought me out of my show, like
Speaker 1: you made me kind of more exciting where I would
Speaker 1: be the boring one, like, but we totally passed a
Speaker 1: whole nothing a world that you and I did Big World,
Speaker 1: which was amazing. Race that was a defining moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, all this is a fining moment, but that
Speaker 1: was like that was crazy because it took us to
Speaker 1: a whole another stratosphere. And also when our band broke up,
Speaker 1: Stealing Angels broke up because Taylor got knocked up and
Speaker 1: she wanted to be a mommy, and yeah, I was
Speaker 1: kind of like came to a screeching Hall and Caroline
Speaker 1: and they were like what are we going to do
Speaker 1: with our lives? Like Taylor got pregnant, moved to Seattle,
Speaker 1: She's still married to her husband John, and that was
Speaker 1: the two cutest boys. And now she's like doing a
Speaker 1: tribute Bandeche Loretta and she had in Conway. Twitty's grandson's
Speaker 1: doing it with her, and she's like on cloud nine,
Speaker 1: loves her life, found her niche Like it's awesome, she
Speaker 1: found her spot. Yeah, but yeah, it came to a
Speaker 1: screeching hot halt, and you and I were like, what
Speaker 1: are we going to do with our lives? Yeah, we
Speaker 1: felt like the same way. I think my showcase felt
Speaker 1: like we're like it all just came crashing down, like
Speaker 1: we failed, like one day to the next. We lost
Speaker 1: a deal, we lost I lost my publishing. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you last year and you still had your
Speaker 1: but like lost everything. Yeah, it was crazy and amazing.
Speaker 1: Race just happened out of the blue, I think like
Speaker 1: a month later some crazy and it's just so weird.
Speaker 1: But they were looking for two country singers. That's Caroline
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what we were going to do
Speaker 1: when that came to us, just fell into our lapside
Speaker 1: of the blue yes, Like, oh my gosh, We're like, yes,
Speaker 1: little did we know what we were getting into. They
Speaker 1: were like, oh, it's a traveling show. Because I had
Speaker 1: never seen it. You just travel around the world and
Speaker 1: do fun things. I'm like, yeah, great, we had no idea.
Speaker 1: How difficult. Tell me your take on Amazing Race. What
Speaker 1: was your experience like and what did you think about that?
Speaker 1: I mean, it was unbelievable. It was amazing for lack
Speaker 1: of a better word, um, but just being able to
Speaker 1: travel the world and see it the way we did,
Speaker 1: Like there's so many things that we would have never
Speaker 1: done on our own, Like I would never go to
Speaker 1: Sri Lanka or you know, Malaysia or wherever, and so
Speaker 1: I just felt like we got an experience that we
Speaker 1: would have never gotten without that show. But Sri Lanka
Speaker 1: where you made an outfit in the sweatshop that was Malaysia,
Speaker 1: Malaysia or China. How crazy is that? Like we went
Speaker 1: to a sweatshop and you made an outfit. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you got to see like what that really looks like,
Speaker 1: like what a sweatshop in Asia and a third world
Speaker 1: country looks like. And it's crazy. That was what was
Speaker 1: so cool about amazing race is it puts you in
Speaker 1: the environment, like you're not just like a tourist, you
Speaker 1: are like in real life environments that are happening in
Speaker 1: that culture. And you know, also for you guys listening,
Speaker 1: you don't have any money, like you just have the
Speaker 1: money that they give you per leg and so to
Speaker 1: like be at an airport and not be able to
Speaker 1: just buy a bottle of water, just simple things that
Speaker 1: you would normally not even think about. It's not even
Speaker 1: about being rich, it's just being able to buy a
Speaker 1: bottle of water. To not be able to do that
Speaker 1: is like it just really kind of put things in
Speaker 1: perspective of how how lucky we are. That That was
Speaker 1: a lot of my take on it. What were some
Speaker 1: of your favorite places we went to and some of
Speaker 1: your favorite experiences and favorite teams? Well, okay, favorite teams.
Speaker 1: We love the Cowboys, loved the Globe Chatter's um David
Speaker 1: Connor were the best, and they were the father's son
Speaker 1: duo who beat us at the end four seconds second place.
Speaker 1: We should we should have beat them. Signed if we're
Speaker 1: gonna lose anyone. Yeah, they're both cancer survivors, which was awesome.
Speaker 1: They're awesome. They're amazing. I think those are my those
Speaker 1: are my favorite teams, Um, my favorite experiences. Well, Switzerland
Speaker 1: I think was just so beautiful. Like that cheese thing
Speaker 1: was just not my favorite experience. So what that but
Speaker 1: that one was was I would always call myself the
Speaker 1: man of our relationship was le bron. Jin was my damsel.
Speaker 1: And we had these like l of cheese that we
Speaker 1: had to haul up a mountain of snow. It's here
Speaker 1: Jin and I two girls, not huge girls at all,
Speaker 1: and there's these big guys that they're doing the exact
Speaker 1: same challenges us. It's the same way of cheese. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's like you get no advantages. It's all the same
Speaker 1: for everybody. The physical part we get. It's tougher for women,
Speaker 1: I feel like. So we had haul these bales of
Speaker 1: cheese up to the snow filled mountain, load them up
Speaker 1: on a sled, and then get them to down the
Speaker 1: mountain and they're like falling, the bales of falling and
Speaker 1: when the cheese falls off, it sinks into the snow,
Speaker 1: like it's not like it just falls off on grass,
Speaker 1: Like you have to like dig down in the snow
Speaker 1: to get out. And it's like she carolines like, come on, chin,
Speaker 1: come on chin, you can do it. Why I want
Speaker 1: to eat the cheese. Oh? We hung in there and
Speaker 1: thought we were going to hang in there, and I
Speaker 1: think that was our greatest advantage. Yeah do you think so? Oh?
Speaker 1: And no one thought we could do it. Everyone was like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's keep Gin and Caroline around because we can beat
Speaker 1: them at the end, so let's keep them, and they
Speaker 1: get kind of worked her totally. We worked it, and
Speaker 1: then it was that I don't know which because we
Speaker 1: did two seasons, season twenty four and then All Stars
Speaker 1: season twenty two and then All Starts twenty four, so
Speaker 1: I might be mixing up the seasons. But one time
Speaker 1: the Cowboys had an express pass, and how did you
Speaker 1: sweet talking me into? That? Was my theory. I'm like, listen,
Speaker 1: so an express pass? Telling the challenge because I was
Speaker 1: losing my mind. Oh my gosh. Caroline was having to
Speaker 1: put together a car, a big, big, like toy car,
Speaker 1: and it was the directions were in Chinese and she
Speaker 1: doesn't like putting stuff together to begin with. Was like, no,
Speaker 1: you love this. I thought you did, and I realized
Speaker 1: that was my mom simply, what are you talking about? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god, and I'm terrible too, so, oh my poor Caroline.
Speaker 1: It was that was that challenge was a nightmare. And
Speaker 1: so Caroline is just breaking down. She's like crying, and
Speaker 1: I'm just watching her and everyone's breezing through it, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, we're gonna lose, Like we're gonna get eliminated.
Speaker 1: She's having a breakdown, and I'm like, I have to
Speaker 1: get the express pass or we lose. And the Express
Speaker 1: Passe needs you get to bypass that challenge. And the
Speaker 1: Cowboys had one for themselves and then they had to
Speaker 1: give one to another team. Yeah, and they could give
Speaker 1: it to whoever they want at any time, And so
Speaker 1: I just went there and I just started working at
Speaker 1: But my my reasoning was, I'm like, listen, we are
Speaker 1: not a threat. You know, we're going to use it
Speaker 1: right here, so it will never be a threat to
Speaker 1: you in the future. They're already done, they're already done,
Speaker 1: they were already going to win the leg. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: we're going to waste it right now. And we're the
Speaker 1: worst team, so if we're not a competition for anybody,
Speaker 1: so you might as well give it to us rather
Speaker 1: than one of the good teams that could beat you guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually not a lot. No, I know, that's very
Speaker 1: that was very honest work got it. I'll never forgetting
Speaker 1: your face when I gave it to you. We were
Speaker 1: just so thankful to put that thing together. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: because I was like, this is where it's over. That's
Speaker 1: where we die. I know I knew it too, I
Speaker 1: saw it. Oh, but that's one thing when you get
Speaker 1: in the zone. You can get in the zone, like
Speaker 1: when you know you gotta get something done and drop
Speaker 1: the hammer. I'll drop it, You'll drop it. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were a good team because I don't I'm not really
Speaker 1: as good at dropping the hammer. Like I'm kind of
Speaker 1: a little more started. It feels like in life sometimes
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, but you're sort of in the beginning, yes,
Speaker 1: but then I'm like the slowest snail, but like I
Speaker 1: just won't stop. And then when you really got to
Speaker 1: lay it down, you get a look in your eyes.
Speaker 1: I mean you get focused, it is happening. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: that's so funny. And we got it and we kept
Speaker 1: going what we're here, like, what was one of your favorite? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, I loved getting to see the different cultures,
Speaker 1: like you're saying it was so cool to go to
Speaker 1: Sri Lanka and like writing those little tub tucks which
Speaker 1: are like little crazy cars that are going everywhere, and
Speaker 1: I don't know how people don't get their lanes off.
Speaker 1: People are sticking their heads out and cars are running
Speaker 1: right next to them and there's no like no lanes
Speaker 1: or no um pattern, like there's just a wild I
Speaker 1: don't know how they don't wreck every day. I know,
Speaker 1: to see that culture was amazing. I loved going to Africa.
Speaker 1: I loved going to Africa. We got to stay in
Speaker 1: a cool place and that night when we got to
Speaker 1: the bushman asked us to do their little ritual with
Speaker 1: the dance by the fire and their babies and stuff.
Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. I remember thinking to myself after amazing race,
Speaker 1: like it changed me in the way that just seeing
Speaker 1: so much of the world and getting to have so
Speaker 1: much intimate, so many intimate experiences with cultures and the
Speaker 1: people in those cultures, it opened my eyes so much
Speaker 1: to realizing that there are so many ways to live life,
Speaker 1: in so many ways to be happy, and like ours
Speaker 1: isn't the only way or the right way. You know,
Speaker 1: gets stuck in your life here sometimes, which we have.
Speaker 1: It's amazing and it's awesome to live in America. It's
Speaker 1: the greatest country, I think, and I know you feel
Speaker 1: the same. But it's like it was just so it
Speaker 1: opened me up so much. I'm like, there's so many
Speaker 1: ways to go through this life, all the colors. Like
Speaker 1: even the dance that we learned, and was it so
Speaker 1: long one? I think that was Sri Lanka, right, was
Speaker 1: that Spain? No, that's another dance. But the dance where
Speaker 1: we had to like twirl or I was having on
Speaker 1: your head. Yeah, one person had a role two plates
Speaker 1: on the head and and dance and the other one
Speaker 1: had to do one. And so I took the I
Speaker 1: took that for the team. But like all the colors,
Speaker 1: there's so many beautiful colors in the world, you know,
Speaker 1: like all that just outfits and the different cultures is amazing.
Speaker 1: We were really good teammates. I have to say. We
Speaker 1: never like obviously we got so frustrated with each other
Speaker 1: because it's impossible not too, but we never like went
Speaker 1: below the belt. We never really fought. We just got
Speaker 1: frustrator sometimes. Yeah, like other teams would break down and
Speaker 1: they would fight and yell and we just like yeah,
Speaker 1: and we held it together the whole time. All that
Speaker 1: one story when we're running like it's towards the pit stop.
Speaker 1: I think it's like in Berlin or it's in Ireland,
Speaker 1: and we're both running and I'm telling you in those
Speaker 1: cobblestone streets and I'm telling you to go one direction
Speaker 1: and you're telling me to go the other. And I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: we're wrong, and I'm like, you're wrong, this is the
Speaker 1: wrong way. Wait what did I say that we're both wrong?
Speaker 1: We're both wrong and we're both going the wrong way.
Speaker 1: To drop it? And we started laughing because you were
Speaker 1: convinced you're right. I was convinced our rose right. And
Speaker 1: I was trying and I get stubborn to and I
Speaker 1: was like trying to like beat in your head that
Speaker 1: I was right. You're like, we're both wrong. But that
Speaker 1: got you. You finally were like, yep, we are, We're
Speaker 1: both wrong, but we I will say. Remember when we
Speaker 1: were in oh, gosh, I don't know where it was.
Speaker 1: I think it was England actually, and we were driving
Speaker 1: and you like the car kind of broke down because
Speaker 1: I had the parking brake on driving on the highway
Speaker 1: and she was driving a stick shift on the left
Speaker 1: side of the road, just learned how to drive a
Speaker 1: month before we get and the stick is on your
Speaker 1: left hand, so it's not even just the other side,
Speaker 1: the whole thing is different. And I just remember thinking,
Speaker 1: oh my god, if you ever want to know if
Speaker 1: you should marry a person, just go drive a stick
Speaker 1: shift in traffic in London lost and see if you
Speaker 1: guys can still get along out there, Because if you
Speaker 1: can pass the test, I think he could like pass
Speaker 1: anything barely. But like to me, doing the directions you're driving,
Speaker 1: we were both like it was impossible and to be
Speaker 1: able to still communicate and like not totally lose it
Speaker 1: on each other. That in that stressful of a situation
Speaker 1: is like I thought, Okay, that's got to be the test.
Speaker 1: That's the marriage test. We did really good. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like because you and I decided ahead of
Speaker 1: time that we were always going to assume the best
Speaker 1: in each other, because I knew you wanted to win
Speaker 1: just as much as I did. But we have our
Speaker 1: physical limitations that are going to pop up and circumstances,
Speaker 1: and we always just assumed even like if we were
Speaker 1: really mad inside and wanted to lose it, we never
Speaker 1: did because we're like, Okay, I know that person. I
Speaker 1: know she's doing the best she can, and then next
Speaker 1: time it's going to be me, he's going to need
Speaker 1: the grace. Yeah, And I felt like we both did
Speaker 1: really well with like keeping each other lifted, like when
Speaker 1: we were stressed at or having a bad like when
Speaker 1: I was the very first episode when I was stuck
Speaker 1: in the sand for eight hundred hours, You're just so nice,
Speaker 1: You're just like, it's okay, Jane, you can do it,
Speaker 1: like you're so positive, and I just because you couldn't
Speaker 1: find the ticket, it was so hot, and it was
Speaker 1: just a lucky thing. And then by the time they
Speaker 1: started rebuilding the sand castles, they were building it on
Speaker 1: different putting it back on a different place, so it's
Speaker 1: impossible where basically it was in board bar. And the
Speaker 1: first challenge was there was all of these sand castles
Speaker 1: in five hundred and there was a few net clues
Speaker 1: under them, so you had a dig each one up
Speaker 1: and if you didn't find a clue, had to rebuild it.
Speaker 1: And so you were and it was hot, the sand
Speaker 1: was not you had to pack the sand, and it
Speaker 1: was hot and dry, so I had to go to
Speaker 1: the ocean and get like water to pack the sand.
Speaker 1: I mean, each building, each sand castle took five minutes
Speaker 1: right at at least hours. Finally we got down to
Speaker 1: three teams and then it was us, Max and Katie
Speaker 1: and then firefighters firefighters, and we did something that had
Speaker 1: never really happened, an amazing race history we called We
Speaker 1: all decided that we were gonna, what was it, take
Speaker 1: a penalty. And so because all of us knew it
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be impossible to find the ticket, the
Speaker 1: sand castles were put on different places, so we couldn't
Speaker 1: it was impossible and everyone had been out there for hours,
Speaker 1: and so okay, then explain what happened next. So we
Speaker 1: agreed to take a penalty, and from that point on,
Speaker 1: it was just like a race to the to the
Speaker 1: finish line, and whoever loses is out. It was eliminated.
Speaker 1: It was the first episode of our entire like the
Speaker 1: first show. We're like, oh, great, we're gonna first, We're
Speaker 1: going to be and if you don't make it, that's
Speaker 1: the only time you're ever aired on TV. And so
Speaker 1: we were like, I cannot believe this is happening. And
Speaker 1: you had to go to any other countries, you missed,
Speaker 1: the missed everything. And so we from that sand castle
Speaker 1: on we had to sprint to make a canoe by ourselves,
Speaker 1: two girls. Everyone else had guys on their team, and
Speaker 1: like tie it together and get the bamboo and make
Speaker 1: the canoe yourself and then canoe a mile and a
Speaker 1: half to the finish line. And we're against men firefighters
Speaker 1: and I've never canoed before. Yeah, And I was so
Speaker 1: tired because I've been in the stand for like eleven hours.
Speaker 1: I had nothing left. And so the fact that we
Speaker 1: out canoe the firefighters because they felt they tipped, they
Speaker 1: took thank god they Yeah, and we balanced and stayed
Speaker 1: up and you just you carried us until the end
Speaker 1: because I had nothing left. Well, I found something in
Speaker 1: me that I never have had since Amazing Race and
Speaker 1: might not ever have again, which is a sense of
Speaker 1: a reserve energy that I didn't know I had, and
Speaker 1: I hadn't been building for eleven hours. But like when
Speaker 1: it came to Amazing Race and it came to like
Speaker 1: getting stuff done, you were just I wanted. I didn't
Speaker 1: I was not going to let a physical tiredness. Stop me,
Speaker 1: And that is not how I am in real life,
Speaker 1: because I will stop in real life, you know. But
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, we gotta go, We gotta get there,
Speaker 1: like we got to sit. I think I want I
Speaker 1: haven't wanted something that badly. Yeah. Well, and it's a competition,
Speaker 1: like you feel like you're kind of in the Hunger
Speaker 1: Games out there, like when it comes home. Yeah no, never.
Speaker 1: That was the most torturous fate that could have happened.
Speaker 1: But you just you stayed with it to Jim too,
Speaker 1: but you really powered us through that and we somehow
Speaker 1: out canoed the firefighters and a mile and a half
Speaker 1: long can you ride? After building a hundred degree heat
Speaker 1: for eight hours? And we lived to see another day
Speaker 1: and we made it all the way to the final
Speaker 1: season finale. We got to every country. But how good
Speaker 1: this food taste after you work so hard like that
Speaker 1: in a physical challenge and sleep and sleep like I don't.
Speaker 1: I never had a problem falling asleep. I could sleep
Speaker 1: for I could just close my eyes and I'd fall asleep.
Speaker 1: And today it takes me like an hour to fall asleep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was being that exhausted. Help so I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: for that experience me too, you know what a blessing
Speaker 1: And it came out of the perfect time of our
Speaker 1: life because we both kind of thought everything was over
Speaker 1: and it gave us kind of like a new um
Speaker 1: sense of ourselves, like we can do anything. We can
Speaker 1: literally do anything we put our mind to. What did
Speaker 1: you take away from it all? Like, what was your
Speaker 1: big what was your gathering from all of it? I mean,
Speaker 1: I just thought two girls that should have been eliminated
Speaker 1: on the first episode of the first time, they did
Speaker 1: it and they ended up going all the way both times,
Speaker 1: losing the second time by four seconds. All these other
Speaker 1: teams are so much stronger than us. We beat and
Speaker 1: it was just awesome. We was like mental, we like
Speaker 1: mentally persevered and we did it and it was awesome.
Speaker 1: What did you learn about mental being? What did you
Speaker 1: learn mentally? Like, what what did you take away from that?
Speaker 1: Because there were teams that were stronger than us and
Speaker 1: there were teams that were better than us, so but
Speaker 1: being a mental game, what did you realize with all that?
Speaker 1: That's everything? Yeah, I mean it really is. You can
Speaker 1: either you can make or break yourself with your mind,
Speaker 1: you know, you can keep yourself going. Your minds the
Speaker 1: thing that's telling your body to keep going. It's not
Speaker 1: your physical thing. First, you know, you just gotta keep
Speaker 1: keep at it. And I feel like that just showed
Speaker 1: you so much, like mind over matter, mind over matter,
Speaker 1: and we did it. You're really good at not getting flustered.
Speaker 1: Like even if you get flustered for a second, you're
Speaker 1: really good at pulling it back together. Do you think
Speaker 1: that's from being an athlete or what do you think
Speaker 1: that's from? Is it just your personality? I think all
Speaker 1: my parents divorces, how many divorces e something? No? I
Speaker 1: do think like I always have had to be the
Speaker 1: one to keep it together, and just like even in
Speaker 1: every situation, and I find myself and I'm always kind
Speaker 1: of like, did you don't really let yourself fall apart? No?
Speaker 1: But ever right now and then you'll have a moment.
Speaker 1: But it is hair. Yeah, it's I think I'm mentally
Speaker 1: pretty tough. But I do drink wine that he do.
Speaker 1: Do you think it started as a kid, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think just like being tossed around and families like that.
Speaker 1: And I was the oldest, so I had to take
Speaker 1: care of my brother and sister, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: and they my brother kind of had struggled with it.
Speaker 1: So if I didn't keep it together, who would he have?
Speaker 1: So I just kind of had to. And I think
Speaker 1: that's how it just was my whole life. And then
Speaker 1: like moving to Nashville, I had nobody, no family here,
Speaker 1: and so I just had to kind of be my
Speaker 1: own my own strength. But what has your mind wanted
Speaker 1: to do, because like what has made your mind be strong?
Speaker 1: What is the goal that your mind says be strong
Speaker 1: for I guess I've never thought about that. That's a
Speaker 1: really good question, probably for myself, like believing in myself.
Speaker 1: And I think because you've had things that you you
Speaker 1: have known that you've wanted to become and achieve things
Speaker 1: your whole life. Yeah, you've always had high expectations for yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I always know I can do it, But there's
Speaker 1: also that kind of thing in the back of your
Speaker 1: head that's like, no, you can't do it, like youn't know,
Speaker 1: you're not good enough. And so that's a battle of
Speaker 1: like battling that going No, actually I can do it,
Speaker 1: and I can work hard and I can do it,
Speaker 1: and I can do anything I put my mind to
Speaker 1: and so I think that that's um something for myself.
Speaker 1: I just know, work hard, be nice to people, and
Speaker 1: you just persevered, don't give up. You know when you
Speaker 1: could you could be not the most talented person, which
Speaker 1: is me and but seriously, you could, like you could
Speaker 1: be the most talented person in the world and never
Speaker 1: make it because you're not mentally strong and you and
Speaker 1: you give up maybe one day before you get the
Speaker 1: record deal the next day. You know, I just feel
Speaker 1: like people give up too soon. When did you realize
Speaker 1: that being mentally strong and working hard with the answer? Well,
Speaker 1: all my life and tennis to that, Like your dad's
Speaker 1: a professional tennis coach. Who did he He's like Jimmy
Speaker 1: Connors and he's amazing. He was Jimmy Jimmy Connor's coach. Yeah, um, tennis,
Speaker 1: Because even if I was losing, and even if the
Speaker 1: girl was a better player, I knew that if I
Speaker 1: stuck in there, I mentally beat so many people. And
Speaker 1: I'm not even kidding. That's how I won a lot
Speaker 1: of my matches. Would you do in your head? What
Speaker 1: is there? Like I wouldn't give up and like I
Speaker 1: would change my game. A lot of people don't like slices.
Speaker 1: This is all kind of stuck. But I just figured
Speaker 1: out what would make the other person fall apart, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't give up. And so there I really feel
Speaker 1: like a mentally won a lot of my matches because
Speaker 1: I just wouldn't give up. So that's kind of so
Speaker 1: when you started self spiraling or or hearing that voice
Speaker 1: in your head saying you're not good enough, you can't
Speaker 1: do this, what do you do to flip it? Because
Speaker 1: you obviously flip it? How do you flip it? I
Speaker 1: think having faith in God for me is like the
Speaker 1: main thing. How do you that you're good enough to
Speaker 1: flip it? Like for people who don't like you, don't
Speaker 1: I mean, you know you're good enough inside your guts
Speaker 1: telling you you're good enough. You're all everybody's good enough,
Speaker 1: we all have you're good enough believe that, yes, you
Speaker 1: trust your gut. And but I do think that there's
Speaker 1: so many, you know, people that are telling you you're
Speaker 1: not or you're failing, or you haven't made it yet
Speaker 1: or whatever. And for me, like having faith in God
Speaker 1: just going okay, I wouldn't be on this path if
Speaker 1: God didn't want me here, you know, And if there
Speaker 1: were all these blocks, like if I feel like I
Speaker 1: would feel like I'm going down the wrong path if
Speaker 1: I was, and I never did. I just felt like
Speaker 1: it wasn't happening yet, but like you'd be hitting roadblock
Speaker 1: after roadblock after roadblock, resistance, Yeah, just not feeling like
Speaker 1: it's right. Yeah, and I've failed failed, But then one
Speaker 1: more door would open or this thing led to this,
Speaker 1: and so I just kept hanging in there, whether it
Speaker 1: was following it, yeah, being working at a label, working
Speaker 1: at a publishing company, being whatever. It was just like
Speaker 1: staying in music. There was just always a door that
Speaker 1: was open. So I've all like, if God wanted me
Speaker 1: to not be doing this, he would have closed all
Speaker 1: the doors and I would have known. So it's just
Speaker 1: like trusting him, going, Okay, you you want me here,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to do it for myself and for you,
Speaker 1: you know, and if if you don't want me here,
Speaker 1: I will know it. And do you believe that he
Speaker 1: would have opened another door somewhere else? Do you believe
Speaker 1: in your heart that he will guide you with the
Speaker 1: doors if you trust him? And sometimes those doors closing
Speaker 1: are it's like a pain horrible, Yeah, painful road, yes,
Speaker 1: and it's not like he makes it all shiny and pretty.
Speaker 1: And sometimes sometimes a lot of times I fight it,
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm like, no, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do this, you know, but I just feel like you
Speaker 1: you have a gut feeling that's always right. And sometimes
Speaker 1: we have that gut feeling and we know it, but
Speaker 1: then our mind talks you into something else, and so
Speaker 1: you just have to have faith that that's the right decision,
Speaker 1: you know, in the right path. So what has always
Speaker 1: been your goal? Ultimate goal? Because all these career journeys
Speaker 1: that you've been on that have been so amazing, like
Speaker 1: in have ultimately like it's been, they've all led to
Speaker 1: where you are now. But what was your goal always
Speaker 1: from the beginning, I've always wanted to be a songwriter.
Speaker 1: That was it. Not even not even singer, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a singer, but if I like,
Speaker 1: my heart was songwriting, and I wanted to make music
Speaker 1: that people would hear and be affected by because music's
Speaker 1: helped me so much in my life going through whatever
Speaker 1: you go through, there's always music, and so I just thought, God,
Speaker 1: if I could do that, you know, if I could
Speaker 1: make music that touches people that would just be everything
Speaker 1: I want. How did it feel when you were nominated
Speaker 1: for Song of the Year with she Don't Love You
Speaker 1: She's Just Lonely with Eric Paslay Crazy? But that like
Speaker 1: all your dreams coming true? Yeah, it really was. That's
Speaker 1: so personal for you. Yeah, And I think to the
Speaker 1: same thing, like with your mind, you struggle with like
Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't deserve this, or like how
Speaker 1: why am I here? How you? But then you're like, wait, no,
Speaker 1: I do I do deserve this. It's the same thing
Speaker 1: where you kind of second guess yourself, and I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of a probably a struggle for a lot
Speaker 1: of people. It's like even when stuff comes to you're
Speaker 1: kind of like, ah, do I deserve this? Am I
Speaker 1: really that good? I'm not, No, I can't be it.
Speaker 1: That was just luck, or you know, you just kind
Speaker 1: of always second guess yourself, so you kind of have
Speaker 1: to sometimes just enjoy the moment and say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I do deserve myself. I mean, I do deserve this.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny. I heard a um An interview
Speaker 1: that Shania did, and they were interviewing her in this big,
Speaker 1: beautiful house that she got and the interviewer was like,
Speaker 1: do you ever just like look around and think, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, how did I get this you know house?
Speaker 1: How how did this all happen to me? And she goes, no,
Speaker 1: I know exactly how I got this house, Like I
Speaker 1: know exactly all the work that it took to get
Speaker 1: me this house, you know. And I love that because
Speaker 1: it's probably not the answer that you want, but it's like, no,
Speaker 1: I worked for this. You know, this didn't just fall
Speaker 1: into place, like I worked so hard for this. I
Speaker 1: love that. I thought that was struggle, Like I struggle
Speaker 1: with just feeling like I'm I mean, I think you're
Speaker 1: way more confident than I am, because you've got that
Speaker 1: iron trap mine. But I struggle with not feeling like
Speaker 1: I'm worthy of things. And I don't know what that
Speaker 1: is because it's I just feel like I always second
Speaker 1: guess myself that I'm not good enough, Someone's better, and
Speaker 1: there's always someone Like some people are just so confident
Speaker 1: and they're just like, this is me. I've always meant
Speaker 1: to be here, this is my role, and I don't care.
Speaker 1: I'll do whatever it takes. But me, I'm always like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, did they know I'm here. This isn't
Speaker 1: the mistake. They're going to find me out and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get kicked out. Oh my gosh. I seriously feel
Speaker 1: the same way. I think it's I honestly think because
Speaker 1: you have empathy or an empathy for me too, and
Speaker 1: like we're always we care so much, you know, and
Speaker 1: we're worried about other people, and we're like, do I
Speaker 1: deserve this? But there's people out there that don't have it,
Speaker 1: and like why am I getting it? You know? And
Speaker 1: I think that that's a lot part of it, too,
Speaker 1: is that you really feel like you're you're not just
Speaker 1: taking it going, Yeah, I deserve to be here, Like
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my gosh, you're working for it, and
Speaker 1: you feel you feel for other people, you know. I
Speaker 1: wish I didn't like that sometimes do you me too?
Speaker 1: I wish I hated animals. Jane and her mom story.
Speaker 1: One time, Jane and her mom were in a grocery
Speaker 1: store and they spent like two hours chasing a bird
Speaker 1: out of the store because they didn't want it to
Speaker 1: be trapped in there. I probably shouldn't be telling this
Speaker 1: story because it's documented, But the other night, it's like
Speaker 1: animals find me because I know you'll save it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm driving down my street to get home, and
Speaker 1: I went to meet Jackie out for drinks, and I
Speaker 1: had had two drinks. And I normally never drink and drive.
Speaker 1: I only uber, like I will uber everywhere, but this
Speaker 1: was so close. I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: drive home. I've had two drinks and I'm driving home
Speaker 1: and there's a baby raccoon in the middle of the
Speaker 1: street and it's not moving, and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: here and this has happened to me with possums. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm the one that stops and saves them. And so
Speaker 1: I'm stopped on the side of the road and these
Speaker 1: cars are like rushing by, and I'm like stopping traffic
Speaker 1: to save this baby raccoon. And I'm like if a
Speaker 1: cop comes, like I'm going to get a d I
Speaker 1: could either go home right now and leave the raccoon
Speaker 1: and not get a d Y, or I could stay
Speaker 1: here with the rab coon and like risk getting a
Speaker 1: d U. I even though I really don't think I
Speaker 1: had enough, but I remember having that thought where I'm like,
Speaker 1: screw it, I'm gonna get going to get a d
Speaker 1: what would you do? Oh god, it was I called
Speaker 1: every animal thing. No one was answering, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: moving even when you walked up to it. No. And
Speaker 1: then I did something dumb and pet it because I
Speaker 1: was like, maybe it will let me take it, And
Speaker 1: so I pet it and it hissed, but it didn't bite.
Speaker 1: So I got hit by a car, I think so.
Speaker 1: And so I've read on all these like um websites
Speaker 1: that you go back and you get a box and
Speaker 1: you cover it with a blanket and pick it up
Speaker 1: and um. Then I could take it to an animal
Speaker 1: place the next morning. But by the time I went back,
Speaker 1: I went and got my box from a wine that
Speaker 1: I bought, had a big old box of Camus perfect.
Speaker 1: The raccoon was going to go into camus box. And
Speaker 1: by the time I got back at the head, I
Speaker 1: don't know, walked away. I don't I don't know. I
Speaker 1: wasn't there anymore. That's good, you know, hopefully hopefully it's okay.
Speaker 1: Maybe you woke him up. Yeah, maybe I woke him out.
Speaker 1: But that happens to me all the time. It happened
Speaker 1: to with the possum too. On that same street and
Speaker 1: I waited there in the rain. It was when we
Speaker 1: were having an ice storm and it was just happening,
Speaker 1: and I was just getting poured on and I just
Speaker 1: sat with the possum until the animal control came and
Speaker 1: got him. So that's how crazy I am. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's really sweet. You like chase stray dogs around
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. They still waking up looking at the sites
Speaker 1: to see which strays are missing, and like chasing him down. No, luckily,
Speaker 1: because I'm not home enough to do that anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but my mom has taken one. Oh she's the same way.
Speaker 1: But bo, Now it's like I rescued a pit bull
Speaker 1: and somehow we got him to California on a plane
Speaker 1: when they wouldn't allow pit bulls. I'm covered in mange.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my gosh. And so we got home
Speaker 1: to Malbou and now he's living the life on the beach.
Speaker 1: Yeah God, okay, So tell me how you've gotten to
Speaker 1: where you are now. So after start off tennis, he
Speaker 1: started off moving doing solo things. We got together, we
Speaker 1: formed a band, an Amazing Race. Then you also, after
Speaker 1: Amazing Race, you were pursuing another band for a little
Speaker 1: while too Yeah, I wasn't. It was called Darling to
Speaker 1: Nappy with Josh and he's an incredible double player. But Um,
Speaker 1: I just kind of, I guess, just kept writing was
Speaker 1: like the main thing. And then that Eric Passley song
Speaker 1: really kept me going because my publishers signed me again
Speaker 1: because of that, and so UM and then Benny Brown,
Speaker 1: who was head of Broken Bow at the time, he
Speaker 1: saw Naomi sing and he had heard about my songwriting
Speaker 1: and you, and that's kind of how it all happened. Really, songwriting.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of what Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: Um joined that band which has been away June, and
Speaker 1: that was five years ago. Five years six years ago,
Speaker 1: I think five years ago. That's crazy. But even that,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been a long road for us. I
Speaker 1: mean we have this is our third single, and girls
Speaker 1: that kept Maren came after us, So many girls came
Speaker 1: after us, such as Skyrocketed, and we just have been
Speaker 1: like waiting for waiting for the moment that we're gonna
Speaker 1: make it. And uh, finally this year we've had We
Speaker 1: just had our first top ten. We did break history
Speaker 1: with your first single, which we wrote together. So I
Speaker 1: was still lucky and grateful to be a part of that.
Speaker 1: And so Caroline and I wrote Lipstick, our first single together,
Speaker 1: and also our title track of our albums Roses. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite song on the album. So y'all were
Speaker 1: breaking history though, even though you didn't have like a
Speaker 1: number one or top ten or whatever. You a trio,
Speaker 1: a female trio hadn't had a top twenty five, and
Speaker 1: it was crazy. So that was like, Okay, you're already
Speaker 1: getting some cred then, and we were. We were getting awesome,
Speaker 1: Like we got nominated for UM a c M New
Speaker 1: Vocal Group with a year or two times. We were
Speaker 1: getting you know, recognition, Yeah, recognition UM. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think for us just being out there grinding it
Speaker 1: out on the road and figuring out like what we
Speaker 1: like to play live, what people like to hear live,
Speaker 1: it just took a lot of growth on the road
Speaker 1: for us to get to where we are now. And
Speaker 1: I feel like now you could just put us in
Speaker 1: any situation and we're like, we've been there, done that.
Speaker 1: We could play anything. We could have any sound problem,
Speaker 1: any whatever problem could happen, and that nice to be
Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah, and it feels good because you're like,
Speaker 1: you know what I worked for this, you know, I
Speaker 1: feel I feel confident and comfortable. Comfortable because I've been
Speaker 1: in this situation a thousand times before, three now know
Speaker 1: how to work together in all situations. And also like
Speaker 1: having people like Carrie who Underwood. I forget that You've
Speaker 1: been on tours Carrie Underwood all year. It's been amazing,
Speaker 1: But having people like her, she just kind of give
Speaker 1: you credit, like her stamp of approval that just means everything.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that all the people John Party
Speaker 1: that did it, all the people that have helped us
Speaker 1: in our career, it's just kind of like little things
Speaker 1: that have gotten us to this point, and it's just
Speaker 1: it's a crazy feeling. Feel very grateful for the community
Speaker 1: and like the people that have reached out and helped.
Speaker 1: And I feel like we could do that too, you know,
Speaker 1: like every every female too, especially that kind of breaks through.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're breaking down doors for people up
Speaker 1: and coming new artists behind us. You know, is it
Speaker 1: hard being a female Encountain reason? Do you feel that?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it's hard because we're kind
Speaker 1: of in our own world and we just go play,
Speaker 1: you know, we do what we do. But I think
Speaker 1: when you look at the charts, you definitely see like
Speaker 1: this is there's a definite lack of females on I
Speaker 1: think there's three females right now in the top thirty.
Speaker 1: It's Us, Carrie and Miranda, and it's just like it's
Speaker 1: that's not enough, you know. So I don't think I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily feel like it's hard. I just feel like
Speaker 1: there's an obvious lack of um female airplay and also
Speaker 1: not just radio but unfairs and festivals, you know, and
Speaker 1: and tours, and I just feel like, um, we all
Speaker 1: have been talking about it so long, but like we
Speaker 1: need to just start doing stuff. Like Carrie, she just
Speaker 1: did it. She's like, I'm taking two female acts out
Speaker 1: on tour, you know. And I feel like that's the
Speaker 1: next step. I feel like for this year and next year,
Speaker 1: just everybody like starting. Yeah. So the conversation has been
Speaker 1: had and it's it's tired, so now let's just do Yeah.
Speaker 1: Speaking of top thirty, though, has it feel to have
Speaker 1: that top ten single? It feels amazing. I mean I
Speaker 1: will say, when y'all came out and buy my own drinks,
Speaker 1: I was like, if this song does not go all
Speaker 1: the way. Then I'm shocked. I have your voicemails saved
Speaker 1: because I have, I have deleted all my voicemails, but
Speaker 1: I specifically saved that one because it was one of
Speaker 1: the coolest voice male voice messages I've ever gotten. And
Speaker 1: she called and she was like, Jen, this is the one.
Speaker 1: This is the it's the one, and I haven't I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep it forever. And you were right,
Speaker 1: you well, it just felt so good. It's so positive
Speaker 1: and it's women empowerment, but it's not male bashing. We
Speaker 1: love our men, you love your men, but you also
Speaker 1: freaking love yourself. And it's like you're just able to
Speaker 1: have a great time and do your own thing as
Speaker 1: as you are with or without a man and friends.
Speaker 1: Like the beginning of the line, it was like I
Speaker 1: called my friends, they can't go out. Like it's like,
Speaker 1: you don't need your friends, you don't need a man,
Speaker 1: you don't need anyone to make yourself happy. You can
Speaker 1: make your own self happy. And it's saying just for
Speaker 1: the night, like you know what, I'm still not over
Speaker 1: this guy. I'm just gonna be by myself tonight. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to just jump into something else. You know.
Speaker 1: It's just like I think you said it best. You
Speaker 1: said it's self love. It is self long about self love.
Speaker 1: My favorite line that could be my own boyfriend. I
Speaker 1: was like, I can be my own boyfriends. Like, yes,
Speaker 1: you can't be your own boyfriend's and you should be
Speaker 1: your own boyfriend. Seriously, just die. Every time we sing
Speaker 1: that line, we just know what's going to happen in
Speaker 1: the crowd and it's so and the guys love it too.
Speaker 1: They're like, heck, yeah, yes, everybody left it. It's so good. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's so I'm so happy for you and just like
Speaker 1: your whole journey to get here and to have stuck
Speaker 1: with it and to never give up, to stay mentally strong.
Speaker 1: It's just a testament to don't give up. It is
Speaker 1: if I can do it, because you made that you
Speaker 1: were twenty three, twenty three years old. So how many
Speaker 1: record deals have you had? Three? Three record deals mixed
Speaker 1: with a million jobs and song pucker radio rep. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've done it all you too, But it's just like
Speaker 1: you could have easily quit any of those times and
Speaker 1: just been like this is too hard, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do this. I wanted to. But what kept you
Speaker 1: going because you knew that you would get here? Did
Speaker 1: you know you'd get here? I did, and I didn't. Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, you have to know, Like
Speaker 1: I said, it's in your gut. You have to know
Speaker 1: that you can do it, but your mind will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: but you really can't, but you're like, no, I can.
Speaker 1: But you had to know a lot. At least you
Speaker 1: had to know pretty strongly, because this is a hard
Speaker 1: thing to keep going for if you don't strongly feel it.
Speaker 1: I think I'm just stubborn. I think I'm very sor
Speaker 1: But I really truly believed to that, like I was
Speaker 1: telling about my faith and God, if if my journey
Speaker 1: was going to change, even if I wasn't going to
Speaker 1: make it how I wanted to make it, it was
Speaker 1: going to lead me to what I was supposed to
Speaker 1: be doing. And that's really what I believed. Even still
Speaker 1: to this day, it's like, whatever I'm doing now is
Speaker 1: for a reason. I'm here for a reason and I'm
Speaker 1: on the right path, So you trust it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like you have to or else it's impossible. Do
Speaker 1: you kind of like being in an industry that forces
Speaker 1: you to trust that much in God. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: for me, that's everything. And I feel like, especially country music,
Speaker 1: were like a family and that's what's so special about it.
Speaker 1: And we talk about God, you know where in this
Speaker 1: day sometimes it's not the coolest thing to talk about,
Speaker 1: but yeah, faith is so important and I've like this
Speaker 1: whole community kind of embraces that, and I think it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: What's one of the moments that you think about back
Speaker 1: on your life that just makes you smile from ear
Speaker 1: to ear and brings you so much joy when you
Speaker 1: think back on it. My dogs, every time I rescued
Speaker 1: a dog. That's really, honestly the truth. I like that's
Speaker 1: also a songwriting is what I love. But I really
Speaker 1: want to make a change for animals, and I would
Speaker 1: love to start a sanctuary for old dogs that get
Speaker 1: kind of thrown out when they're older, and I just
Speaker 1: want them to have like a good life at the end,
Speaker 1: you know, and be loved at the end, because I
Speaker 1: think that's everyone adopts new dogs and new peppies, but
Speaker 1: all the old ones kind of get left behind. So
Speaker 1: that's what I want to do that. I got to
Speaker 1: make some make some money to do that, So that's
Speaker 1: like yours, that's your charity want to and it's always
Speaker 1: been dogs. Yeah, And I love kids obviously, I mean kids,
Speaker 1: kids and dogs are everything. But I feel like God
Speaker 1: definitely put dogs dogs in my heart for a reason
Speaker 1: because probably so many people have kids on their heart,
Speaker 1: you know. I think you definitely put that on my
Speaker 1: heart for a reason. What does success mean to you?
Speaker 1: After everything you've seen growing up with John Wyn as
Speaker 1: your grandfather, Like, you have seen success and you have
Speaker 1: been on your own journey of major highs, major lows.
Speaker 1: What is success for you at this point? Not giving up? Seriously?
Speaker 1: Like to me, when I look back, I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of myself for that. Obviously there's all these accomplishments that
Speaker 1: you create that you've that happened. But for me, I'm like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I never gave up. And that success you know you
Speaker 1: could have to fail, is to not get up when
Speaker 1: you do fail, you know, and failing is a part
Speaker 1: of success. All those things lead to it. So I
Speaker 1: feel like not giving up, it's like, that's that's the
Speaker 1: coolest part. If you had to pick a song for
Speaker 1: your theme song of life, what would it be? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god, well, my favorite song of all time is
Speaker 1: Don't Worry Baby by the Beach Voice, And I'm a
Speaker 1: worry word everything you do everything? No, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess it's crazy, but you don't seem like you were.
Speaker 1: Youre's an internal warrior. You don't speak your worries. No,
Speaker 1: I just in my brain just think about every single
Speaker 1: thing that could ever happen. What like natural disasters like dogs,
Speaker 1: your career, Yeah, what everything, dogs, career, my mom, every friends,
Speaker 1: I mean, just is everything? Are you on constant replay
Speaker 1: with worry? Yes? Jin your faith is so strong. I
Speaker 1: know when I battle with God, I have battle with
Speaker 1: that the most. That's my wine really helps me. But
Speaker 1: it's so funny that song William I was engagement and
Speaker 1: he asked me to marry him during that song, and
Speaker 1: so now I'm like, yeah, so it kind of ruined
Speaker 1: my favorite song. So my goal is to now find
Speaker 1: a moment with that song that can change that memory.
Speaker 1: So I think that's what I got to figure that out.
Speaker 1: What is love to you now at this point after
Speaker 1: all the things, because you've had you're so loving and
Speaker 1: you've had a lot of love and friendships men, I
Speaker 1: mean you've you know, you've you're a loving person. What
Speaker 1: does love mean to you obviously been engaged? Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess love means being kind and caring,
Speaker 1: and um, I think I think like you. Like how
Speaker 1: I was saying you're in empathy, I think I am too.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, I'm always wanting to help, wanting
Speaker 1: to help people, and I think sometimes that's gotten me
Speaker 1: in trouble because I find people that I want to
Speaker 1: help save, and yeah, you have to save them exactly, Like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I see you deep down underneath all these terrible, terrible traits. Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but it must be something because
Speaker 1: you see the best in everyone. Yeah, but it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful thing. But I just work on saving dogs now
Speaker 1: instead of men and save myself for a year or two. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I do think love is like, um, the first
Speaker 1: thing I can think of, its kindness. I think it's
Speaker 1: love is so much, but being kind to one another
Speaker 1: and caring for people and animals. Okay, so what's on
Speaker 1: your bucket list? Now that you are in a hit trio,
Speaker 1: breaking records on tour, carry you're writing songs are in
Speaker 1: the top ten. I mean, you're doing the deal. So
Speaker 1: what's left well bucket list. Music wise, it would be
Speaker 1: unbelievable to be nominated for a Grammy and win and
Speaker 1: when let's just win it totally. But I just think
Speaker 1: having that honor would be just unbelievable. Um. And then
Speaker 1: non music wise, I really want to go to India.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go to India. I want to
Speaker 1: do a mission trip there and I just haven't been
Speaker 1: able to do it. But that's like I've been on
Speaker 1: my heart since I was a kid and I have
Speaker 1: no idea why. Um that, and I want to go
Speaker 1: see Machu Picchu, which you've done. That's all those are
Speaker 1: my bucket list. What's the great advice you've ever gotten?
Speaker 1: My aunt basically saying don't give up. But she was like, listen,
Speaker 1: you're moving to Nashville. You want to be a solo singer.
Speaker 1: She was like, just a little advice for you. Take
Speaker 1: any opportunity that comes with music. She's like, don't not
Speaker 1: take it because it's not exactly what you want. She
Speaker 1: was like, if you get a red bike and you
Speaker 1: wanted a black bike, you can still ride a bike,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I never forgot that because it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe I wanted to moved here to
Speaker 1: be a solo singer, but maybe that wasn't my path.
Speaker 1: Maybe I was supposed to be in a trio, or
Speaker 1: maybe it was a song writ or maybe it was
Speaker 1: working for a record label, like whatever it was in music.
Speaker 1: She just said, be open to it, maybe not being
Speaker 1: exactly what you wanted, but be open to those opportunities.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I could have said no to
Speaker 1: so many because it wasn't perfect you had put together
Speaker 1: in your mind. Yeah, and it was tough, you know,
Speaker 1: And but we said you and me said yes to
Speaker 1: everything that we did, say yes to everything, and my
Speaker 1: being here, all that stuff got both of us here,
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that was probably the best
Speaker 1: advice I've gotten. Okay, So I would like to keep
Speaker 1: talking to you, but I mean it's time to wrap up.
Speaker 1: I always end with leave your Light. So just all
Speaker 1: your journey that you've been on, everything you've gone through.
Speaker 1: Obviously you've been inspiring us this whole hour. But what
Speaker 1: is something that you just want to share with people
Speaker 1: listening who maybe are lost right now, or who maybe
Speaker 1: are trying to find their dream, or who maybe feel like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, just they don't know what's next, or
Speaker 1: they're just looking for inspiration. What is something that you
Speaker 1: want to share that you have just that you think
Speaker 1: could help inspire people. I thought it's okay, Like it's
Speaker 1: okay to feel that way, because I feel like that's
Speaker 1: a struggle for me. Is I feel like I have
Speaker 1: to be perfect all the time and that's just not reality,
Speaker 1: and that it's okay to feel that way. We all
Speaker 1: feel that way, and like, don't wallow in it, you know,
Speaker 1: just let yourself feel that way and and trust yourself,
Speaker 1: trust your gut, just keep moving forward. But I feel
Speaker 1: like we beat ourselves up when things aren't okay and
Speaker 1: when it's not perfect and we're not you know, feeling
Speaker 1: like things are exactly what we want. I just think
Speaker 1: to tell yourself it's okay, like we've all been there,
Speaker 1: and love yourself. I don't beat yourself up. Love yourself.
Speaker 1: That's hard to do sometimes, it's really hard to do, yeah,
Speaker 1: because we see all the flaws when like I look
Speaker 1: at you and I'm like, what could you not love
Speaker 1: about yourself? The same? I feel like, and I feel
Speaker 1: like women, especially men too, but like we really do
Speaker 1: look at ourselves so differently than how we really are.
Speaker 1: So I think it's a good thing to kind of
Speaker 1: practice loving yourself, and for me, I have to do it.
Speaker 1: It has to be like an intentional thing. Of course,
Speaker 1: I love myself. What do you do like intentionally if
Speaker 1: you look in the mirror and you're like, oh I
Speaker 1: look fat or whatever, I'm like, Wow, my legs, I
Speaker 1: can walk, I can run, I can my legs are beautiful,
Speaker 1: they're strong, they get me places instead of thinking that
Speaker 1: they're fat. Like, I intentionally change my feeling towards myself,
Speaker 1: and and I have to. It has to be intentional
Speaker 1: because my brain will just go there, It'll just go
Speaker 1: to the negative about yourself. So every single day I
Speaker 1: just try to be intentional with loving myself. And like,
Speaker 1: would I tell that to my best friend? Like, no,
Speaker 1: what I think that about my What I think that
Speaker 1: about my mom or whatever? No, you just but yourself.
Speaker 1: You're so hot in yourself, So kind of being intentional
Speaker 1: about that? Why are we so hard on ourselves? I
Speaker 1: have no idea. I don't know. I hope it gets
Speaker 1: better as we get older. I do actually do feel
Speaker 1: like it's for me gotten better. I feel like when
Speaker 1: I was younger, I just totally picked myself apart so much,
Speaker 1: and now I'm kind of like, you know what extra
Speaker 1: five pounds? Like the extra five pounds that Brittany Aldine
Speaker 1: posted did you see that? Was? That was my favorite?
Speaker 1: I'm like, those are extra five pounds at the moments
Speaker 1: you're having ice cream with your husband or pizza or
Speaker 1: have wine, it's like, don't be so hard on yourself.
Speaker 1: And when you get older. As I've gotten older, I
Speaker 1: feel like it has gotten better. Like it's okay, we're
Speaker 1: not perfect. Nobody's perfect. I know, I know, yeah, mine is.
Speaker 1: I'm always scared that people don't like me really and
Speaker 1: everyone loves you, but I'm always scared that I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is that people just don't like me.
Speaker 1: That there's like they're like, oh, we don't really like Caroline.
Speaker 1: Isn't that weird? Yeah, because everybody loves you such a
Speaker 1: light and you're like what you're doing, you're spreading light.
Speaker 1: You even end it with that, you know, spreading light.
Speaker 1: I think it's because I know my insecurities, and my
Speaker 1: insecurities feel ugly to me, so I feel like everyone
Speaker 1: must know them, and so like I'm like, oh, everyone
Speaker 1: must know my insecurities, and so since they know and
Speaker 1: they don't like me, but really everyone has insecurities. We
Speaker 1: all do. It's crazy because I actually wrote a song
Speaker 1: yesterday with um My Man and and Well it's called
Speaker 1: pretty Beautiful, and it's saying like all these things that
Speaker 1: are beautiful are not on the outside. It's like, you're
Speaker 1: pretty strong, you're pretty heart, you're everything that's that's beautiful
Speaker 1: is on the inside, and we look so much on
Speaker 1: the outside. And so it's crazy. I we all pick
Speaker 1: ourselves apart, and what you're seeing is ugly is not
Speaker 1: you're You're you. It's beautiful, you know. But you're looking
Speaker 1: at yourself going, oh my gosh, that's ugly, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's you know. So we just gotta we gotta give
Speaker 1: ourselves grace. Don't be so hard on ourselves. I love that, Yeah, yourself,
Speaker 1: ourselves and for me being intentional with it, because it's
Speaker 1: like a practice every day, like be intentional with loving yourself.
Speaker 1: Gin Winne for president of being a worry word, Oh god, no,
Speaker 1: you'd be a great president. You'd save all the an,
Speaker 1: most of the kids. We'd have world peace because you
Speaker 1: can lay that hammer down to I'm telling you it's good.
Speaker 1: Move over Trump, You're coming in well. I love you, Jenn,
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on my podcast. I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of you. It's fun. It has it has been. This
Speaker 1: live journey with he has been great. It has been okay.
Speaker 1: I love you. Bye.