1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. I don't know if you 4 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: guys have noticed on the zoom calls, but what I'm 5 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 1: actually doing for some reason, I've got this happen. Now, 6 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: let me lean back so you can see what I'm doing. 7 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: What I'm when I'm introing the show, I'm going like this, 8 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: like I'm I'm dabbing for some reason. I don't know why, 9 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: but I hope that. I hope you guys are okay 10 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: with it. That's our super producer, Mr Max Williams. I'm 11 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: ben uh that, Noel Brown. Thank you for approving of 12 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: my dad more ovaltine. Please, you're actually drinking I'm flagging, bro, 13 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: I need pet man. It's actually not ovaltine. It's adult ovaltine. 14 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: It's iced coffee. Oh okay, I'm drinking. I'm drinking iced 15 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: coffee as well. You know it would be good. The 16 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: ovaltine and iced coffee make it like a mocha. Yeah, 17 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: malted ice coffee. You know what. I think You're onto something, 18 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: my friend. And that is a perfect segue to our 19 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: continuing conversation. This is part two of the Sinister Influence 20 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: of Little Orphan Annie, and we've already learned some weird stuff. 21 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this radio show was 22 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: before our time. I don't know if the modern world 23 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: is aware of just like how corporate that show was. 24 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: The radio show. We're gonna learn a little bit about that, right, yeah, 25 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: especially considering it's like highly controversial political roots as a 26 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: comic strip. Uh. And then also some of that bled 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: into the radio show too, very very odd dichotomy. And 28 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: by the way, it was something we didn't mention in 29 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: the episode, and I think we buried the lead here. 30 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: I had forgotten until I was looking up some images 31 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: from the comic strip that like all of the characters 32 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: have these weird, soulless, vacant button eyes, Like, what's that about? Well, 33 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: it's it could be just a stylistic choice. But also 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if maybe it was something that was just 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: cleaner when it was a comic strip. But those eyes 36 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: are off putting, right, Maybe it would be too busy 37 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: or too much ink, too much detail. But that doesn't 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: make sense because you have other comics like dag Would 39 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: that don't have a problem with having normal eyes. Yes, definitely, 40 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 1: still its a choice. It's a super odd one because 41 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: when I look at them, I just see just nothingness 42 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: staring back at me. Especially the one cover of one 43 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: of the collections of all of the Little or Nanni comics, 44 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: or one of many, because there were probably hundreds hundreds 45 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: of them, it's got Annie and her dog Sandy, both 46 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: with these kind of rarely rictus kind of creepy grins 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: and just staring at you through these vacant white eyes. 48 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: Creepy stuff. Uh, and we're gonna get into some more 49 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: creepy stuff in terms of like advertising and targeting kids, 50 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: and also the super sinister bizarro world that Little Orphan 51 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: Annie occupy that potentially could have caused some some wrinkles 52 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 1: in the the daily lives of the youth of the 53 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. Yeah, yeah, and uh, light spoilers here, perhaps 54 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: most importantly will be exploring how similar conversations continue in 55 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: the modern day. So without further ado, we we proudly 56 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: present or hopefully endearingly present part two of the sinister 57 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: influence of Little Orphan Any. One of the big themes 58 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: about Annie as a character is that she is self reliant. 59 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: The creator himself said that she lives in a vaguely 60 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: sinister world without comfort. She's controversial, but she's tougher than hell, 61 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: and she has a heart like you said in a 62 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Heart of Gold, a fast left, and she takes care 63 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: of herself because she has to. The radio series did 64 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: cut some of the or sanded down some of the 65 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: comic strips more sharp tones, like it dropped the super 66 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: anti Roosevelt politics. At times, the strip reads as just 67 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: a way for this guy to let everyone know, through 68 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: the power of cartoons that he hates FDR, but they 69 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: kept the idea of danger. The episodes ending cliffhangers, and 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: the cliff hangers are a big reason kids tuned in 71 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: for the next episodes. They're also the reason parents didn't 72 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: like this. They didn't like their kid thinking um like 73 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: there was one episode where Annie is kidnapped at the 74 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: end of the show and parents were ticked off at this. 75 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: They were calling in. They were like, you guys are 76 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: being real pills. My kid is going to spend the 77 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: next the next who knows how long, freaking out trying 78 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: to figure out what happens to Annie if she survives. 79 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: Because in these kids imaginations in their minds. For many 80 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: of them, Annie is a real person. I was saying 81 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: that I was thinking the same thing, man, Like, with 82 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: this being so new, it's almost like it would be 83 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: hard for them to differentiate between or even understand the 84 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: nature of fiction. Like it's to them it's so real 85 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: that they would, you know, honestly respond with real emotion 86 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and a real attachment, And they would wonder about their 87 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: friend Annie and if she was gonna be okay, you know, 88 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: all this time leading up to the next episode, which 89 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: surely would distract them, and they're thinking from school, you know, 90 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: and it happens. Yeah, you're you're right that, Like, I 91 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: love these said that, because that gets us to a 92 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: valid point. Parents have legit concerns now like this, their 93 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: friend has gone missing. They're gonna suck at their math 94 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: homework for a while, and it's your fault, traumatised. Yeah, 95 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: and it happens today with um, you know, to go 96 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: back to a Game of Thrones example, I can't believe 97 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: this is appropriate again, but the inability of audiences to 98 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: distinguish fact from fiction remains with us. For an example, 99 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: one need look no further than the unfortunate and very 100 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: talented actor who played King Joffrey in Game of Thrones. 101 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: People hated the actor and like, who was a child 102 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: by the way at the time, and would say terrible 103 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: things about him and to him. And now he quit acting. 104 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: What's his what's his name? Oh, it's something Gleason. He 105 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: has a very old man kind of name. I think 106 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, oh yeah, I was. I wasn't too far. 107 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: It's it's literally Jackie Gleason. Well not Jackie but Jackie. 108 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: Very old man name goes along with the period that 109 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about. But you're right. I mean he quit 110 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: acting and I think went into like philanthropy or something 111 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: because he was just sick of getting dragged on the 112 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: internet because people had a hard time separating the art 113 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: from the artist. Yeah. Yeah, and Max, he said, you 114 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: have another example, Yeah, I do. Um. Obviously, you guys 115 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: know who Malcolm McDowell is, right, obviously very famous from 116 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: a clockwork Orange, but he was in Star Trek Generations 117 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: as the villain and he is just hated by Star 118 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: Trek community because he is spoiling right here at the 119 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: guy who killed Captain Kirk cannot discern the fact that 120 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: he is not that guy. And he didn't kill William Shatner. 121 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: But they're like, you know you killed Kirk. You are 122 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: a terrible person, Malcolm McDowell. No, William shatter is fine. 123 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: He went to space with Jeff Bezos, if I'm not mistaken. 124 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: He did a cover of Rocket Man. He made a 125 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: film in Esperanto, I think as well. Esperanto infamous. Yeah, 126 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: it's it's infamously bad, but also you know, an infamously 127 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: big swing, Esperanto being what kind of like a like 128 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: a an invented language, right then, yes, yeah, it is 129 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: a manufactured language with the idea of becoming a global, 130 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: one world language. We could do an episode on one 131 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: world languages, if that's interesting to anybody. So far, the 132 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,559 Speaker 1: majority other than Math have failed at one point or another. 133 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: Language continues to kind of I don't want to say balkanized, 134 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: but specie in a way. That's why so many different 135 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: versions of English exists. I have a very good friend 136 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: of mine, Um you may have met briefly and only. 137 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: He's an author, a wonderful author named Tim Westover. And 138 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure he's fine with me saying saying his name 139 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: on the air. Uh. Tim is in addition to his 140 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: many many accolades. He is a polyglott and he's the 141 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: kind of guy who studied Esperanto for fun. So I 142 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: asked him about the Shatner movie. He's like vice president 143 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: of Esperanto Publishing in America or something, and I asked 144 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: him about the Esperanto movie and Shatter was in and 145 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: he immediately told me it's like a cult classic in 146 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: the Esperanto community because the pronunciation is that bad. I 147 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: don't know how he got on this tangent, but it's uh, 148 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: but hopefully it's a worthwhile one. Okay, thrones to Esperanto, yes, 149 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: and and it's a little or fan any so, so 150 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: like uh, because everybody was very close to this show, 151 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: in part because parents were concerned and their children may 152 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: not understand that Annie is a fictional character. The writers 153 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: eventually had a list of what they called the mustn'ts, 154 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: which were things that could not happen in the plot 155 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: of any episode. So and he can't be kidnapped, right, 156 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: and he can't. You can find the list online, but 157 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty interesting. And why did they do this? 158 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: We know the comic strip author was out there to 159 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: propagate his own political viewpoints, but when this moved to radio, 160 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: it's a new era, baby. We got money coming in 161 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: the door totally. And we also know that Gray the 162 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: the the author of the comic strip, Harold Gray. Um, 163 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: there are plenty of instances where the syndicated you know, 164 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: printings of the comic strip were pulled due to complaints. 165 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: So oh, you know, but he was maybe a little 166 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: less concerned with that. I don't know that he was like, 167 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: I don't know how the syndication pay worked, but uh 168 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: did He didn't seem too concerned. But now we've got 169 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: a centralized production that's going out over the wire, and 170 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: that sponsored by a marketing megal if in Ovaltine. Back 171 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: to Christmas story, you'll remember that that plays a huge 172 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: part of the whole Ovaltine thing. And there were literal, 173 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: you know kind of tie ins you know with um 174 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: little little things, you little prizes you could win similar 175 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: to the old Man's major reward that I believe you 176 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: went from some some other kind of like you know, 177 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: the sweepstakes for adults. But um, Ralphie was just absolutely 178 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: obsessed with getting this little or fan andy Dakota ring. 179 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: So you get the Dakota Ring and then you listen 180 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: along and then in an advertisement that's disguised as like 181 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: the Stirring Moments, he earns the dials always in the 182 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 1: bathroom on his Dakota ring, only to realize that the 183 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: message that it spells out is drink more ovaltine. Uh 184 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: dun due done. Indeed, he felt betrayed. He was so upset. 185 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: He was absolutely understandably because you know, he had to 186 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: power through tons of advertisements just to even get the 187 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: thing that ultimately became an advertisement and of itself. Yeah, 188 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: and he not's just the not just the advertisements he 189 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: had to power through. He had to physically power through ovaltine. 190 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: That's because he had you had to send in the 191 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: box stops, right, So imagine the physical tool that's not 192 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: ding on ovaltine. It's not like bad for you. It's 193 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: a multi drink mix well, and it has like vitamins 194 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: and minerals and stuff, and it's still widely available. It's 195 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: quite delicious. You know, I'm a fan of al um. 196 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: He was funny though that not to not to get 197 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: another tangent, just a really quick one. There is a 198 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: lot in common between the early days of radio and 199 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: like the single advertiser that requires what's called direct risk 200 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: bonts advertisements like where you have to send in your 201 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: box top or your code or whatever to where we 202 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: are in podcasting, or at least the very beginnings of podcasting, 203 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: because podcasting in the early days there were like a 204 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: handful of advertisers, all of whom required you to enter 205 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: some kind of code to get a prize, to get 206 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: a discount, to get something. So it really is kind 207 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 1: of like media going full circle in an interesting way. Yeah, yeah, no, 208 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: let's stay on this tangent for a while, because it's 209 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. It happened when Hulu came out too. 210 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: There would be a very there'd be relatively little diversity 211 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: in the world of advertisers, right like, uh, in the 212 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: world of podcasting. You know, there was a time where 213 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: if you heard a commercial on a podcast, it was 214 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: a high chance it was going to be one of 215 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: like four companies, you know, the Blue Aprons, the Casper Mattresses, 216 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: Casper Mattresses, of course, Great Courses, yeah and yeah, all 217 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: the hits, all the good ones, and this is this 218 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: is something that could be a weird experience for people 219 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: who were listening. It was certainly, it was certainly surreal 220 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: for us at times on the other side of the microphone. 221 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: But overall this stuff ended up being good for our shows, 222 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: and we didn't We weren't in a Ovaltine position to 223 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: have just one entity doing the underwriting because they had 224 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: tremendous they had a creative control. Yeah. Ovaltee not only 225 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: did the underwriting, and underwriting just literally means that you 226 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: are a primary sponsor underwrite. It's a weird term. It 227 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: just means that you, you know, have a stake in 228 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: the show and you're responsible to the show partially underwritten 229 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: by etcetera. They were doing the writing properly. The advertising 230 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: agency that was responsible for marketing ovaltein they actually wrote 231 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: the Little Orphan Annie Radio Hour. Yeah, and then they 232 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: were adding stuff in all to sell Ovaltine. They were 233 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: making plot decisions. They said, okay, how do we this 234 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: very Edward Bernese approach. They were thinking, okay, you know, 235 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: how do we, uh, how do we make this attracted 236 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: the boys? We want boys drinking Ovaltine too. We got 237 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: so much oval team, we gotta move all ovaltea. Uh. 238 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: And then someone else is like, well, I don't know, boss, 239 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: let's go, let's get her sidekick let's say a sidekick. 240 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: We'll call him Joe. That's a name, and Joe corn Tassel, 241 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: He's he's a sidekick. Boys like hearing about themselves, so uh, 242 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: they'll buy Ovaltine too, and this Uh. Radio historians think 243 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: that the big success of this for the Ovaltine company 244 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: and for the story of Little or Financy was that 245 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: this was one of the first shows of its kind 246 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: in this medium that had a child as a lead character. 247 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: So it's almost like taking a Christmas Carol and now 248 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: now it's from tiny Thim's, you know, and that's something 249 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: kids can relate to. It's a brilliant idea and it 250 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: spoke directly to kids who are also trying to navigate 251 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: the weird stuff about the world of adults, which adults 252 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: often keep hidden from children or attempt to. I mean, 253 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: if you think about it, when your kid growing up, 254 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: the world of adulthood is somewhat cryptic, is it not. 255 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: Not only is it cryptic, I mean it's pretty depressing. 256 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: I mean this is in fact the Depression era in 257 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: the United States. Parents were struggling to pay the bills, 258 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: you know. I mean it was it was a really 259 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: tough time and there was a lot of strife and anxiety, 260 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: and this gave the kids something to latch onto or 261 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: sort of a protagonist that they could understand. But he 262 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: was ultimately written by adults, so that filtered in all 263 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: of these Like again we were talking about in the 264 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: comic strip, it was much less politicized are political in 265 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: the radio show, but there were adult issues that were 266 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: kind of like woven into the narrative. The producers understood, 267 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: the little or fancy preus understood. They had to kind of, 268 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: you know, really tread lightly on this stuff though, because 269 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: they wanted to make sure that the kids were signing 270 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: on because they were thrilled and enticed, but also that 271 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't offending their parents, and the parents didn't think 272 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: that they were being given too much information or it 273 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: was too adults, because after all, it was the parents 274 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: that were buying the Oval Team for the kids, it 275 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: wasn't the kids that were buying it for themselves. So 276 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: it was very much a delicate balancing act they had 277 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: to do once they realized what the stakes were, especially 278 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: considering that the show itself, each episode was only about 279 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes long, and so you can tell what they're 280 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: prioritizing here. Just for an example, let's go back to 281 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: that clip from the episode we played earlier, and let's 282 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: play something for you at the very beginning here. It 283 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: is now I have time to hear more about the 284 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: big new adventure that's starting for Orphanani and Simmons Corners. 285 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: But first, if there are any few boys and girls 286 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: who don't like to drink milk and your mother's scored 287 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: you because you don't drink enough, don't forget what a 288 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: wonderful help Oval team can be to you. Here's what 289 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: you do, instead of drinking your milk plain, ask your 290 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: mother to let you have ovaltine after this, because ovaltine 291 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: turns plain milk into the keenest kind of a treat, 292 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: so chocolately looking and good. It tastes even better than 293 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: it looks. What's more, your mother will be glad to 294 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: let you have all you want to drink because when 295 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: you add ovaltine, it greatly increases the food energy value 296 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: of your milk. So we're several minutes into the program 297 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: at this point, and what we just heard was a 298 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: an announcer who is not part of the story extolling 299 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 1: the virtues of ovaltine, promising that it would give them 300 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: pep just so and uh. And the thing is that 301 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: if you look at a breakdown of how much time 302 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: is spent telling a story versus telling people to buy ovaltine, 303 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: as much as one third, like as much of five 304 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: minutes of every fifteen minutes was all about ovaltine. And 305 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: then some stuff went down with this orphan named Annie 306 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: and her side kicked Joe and maybe a word of episodes, 307 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: So what is that? TRANDL And that's like, yeah, it's 308 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: like five minutes, so it's really only ten minute episode. 309 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: That kind of tracks to roughly where we ended up 310 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: in the proper golden age of like prime time television, 311 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, thirty minute episode of a show would really 312 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: only end up being about twenty minutes, so maybe a 313 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: little less than a third, but I think it was okay, yeah, yeah, 314 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: but still right. They're definitely cutting into the time. And 315 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: you could hear that on AM radio too. For example, 316 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: AM radio will often save its commercials for like a 317 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: block that that feels very long. So this is clearly 318 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: an advertising thing. It doesn't matter who the president is 319 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: right now, unless the president says something really cool or 320 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: really mean about oval team. If they did, then I'm 321 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: sure that the writers would have Little Annie rediscover her 322 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: political um colleciousness. Because even though, like we said, they 323 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: definitely scaled back the political stuff from that clip we 324 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: heard again they're talking about buying stock. You know, they're 325 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: talking about like all of this kind of adults, you know, 326 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: financial stuff that kids would never in a million years 327 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: probably be privy to. So very very interesting that some 328 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: of that still carried over. And let's not forget that 329 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: we are still in and around the depression era, and 330 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: so most families don't have unlimited, you know, expendable income 331 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: to buy like suits and treats. So they had to 332 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: market this as something that was like, you know, good 333 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: for your health. You know, it would give the kids 334 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: the PAP, you know, and like you say things like 335 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: and do little over financy a favor and and tell 336 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: your mom and dad to buy more ovaltine, and so 337 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: they you know, you could argue that it was, in 338 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: some small ways like a supplement. I mean, that is 339 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: how it's marketed. Now. If you look at the front 340 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: of ovaltine, it really leans into how many vitamins and 341 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: minerals in it and all that good stuff. But we 342 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: also know that milk itself already has a lot of 343 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: vitamins and minerals and and you know, calcium and all 344 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: of that um, and you know, to add something to 345 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: milk that was costly probably would have been a tough 346 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 1: sell to some parents if it wasn't for their kids 347 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: just haranguing them about this, you know, and making it 348 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: absolutely just not an option to not buy the stuff. 349 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: There is, in fact, a really great anecdote in the 350 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: book The Psychology of Radio by Hadley Cantrill and Gordon Allport, 351 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: where they talk about a seven year old kid named 352 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: Andrew who loved and then in the context of the book, 353 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: they say whose favorite radio show unnamed with a little 354 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: heroine who almost certainly was anny, and was sponsored by 355 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: a chocolate flavoring to be added to milk, which is 356 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: again unquestionably opaltine. This is from a Smithsonian magazine article 357 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: about American children facing great dangers in the nineteen thirties. 358 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: I believe the one they're referring to, hear is marketing, 359 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: and apparently the kid got so obsessed with this chocolate 360 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: flavoring not to be named, that he insisted that mother 361 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: buy and after she refused to buy it. He wouldn't 362 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: drink milk anymore at all after she decided that it 363 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: wasn't worth the price. Um. And then there's the quote 364 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: from the book in vain. Does she suggest that Andrew 365 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: derived his pep from ordinary cuco or at least from 366 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: one of the less expensive preparations. Uh. Andrew wins his 367 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: point by refusing to drink milk at all without the 368 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: costly addition. So again, parents do have an ax to 369 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: grind here. This is some serious arm twisting that's going 370 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: on on the part of their kids who are potentially 371 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: being so stubborn that they could put their own health 372 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: at risk. If you are to believe it is to 373 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: be believed that milk, you know, was such an important 374 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: facet of kids growing up, which we now know isn't 375 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: quite true either. Well yeah, yeah, and shout out to 376 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: the concerted, ongoing conspiracies of the dairy industry. Um, maybe 377 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: not so much the dairy industry. Big cheese, there was 378 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: a real thing. Check out cheese spiracy on stuff they 379 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 1: don't want you to know, available wherever you find your 380 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: favorite podcast. Always be closing, gentlemen. So you you nailed it. Yeah, 381 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: there's another thing they do. This is incredibly clever and 382 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: again this is the dark shadow of berness. It's it 383 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: would be described as a giveaway, so giveaway. An Air 384 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 1: quotes the announcer Pierre Andre, that's the guy you heard 385 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: do the ovaltine add just a few minutes ago. Would 386 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: always tell these kids about giveaways. All you had to 387 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: do was send in one dime and it would had 388 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: to be wrapped in the metal foil from under the 389 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: lid of an ovaltine. Can you know, like the sealed 390 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,959 Speaker 1: for freshness kind of thing. You wrapped the dime up 391 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: in that, and if you sent it in you could 392 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: get things like mugs or buttons or booklets or badges 393 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: and masks and blah blah blah all this other or 394 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: Dakota Rings Right, Merchants, swag Right and a lot of 395 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: other radio shows. To be fair, we're doing this. They 396 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: were offering quote unquote free items. The deal is that 397 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: they weren't really free because you're proving that you've bought 398 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: this product. When you're sending this stuff in. It's just 399 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: like sending in a rapper or a box top. An 400 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: oval team by far. According to Bruce Smith in History 401 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: of Little or fananity. Gave away more items connected to 402 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: this radio show than anyone else, any other radio show. 403 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: Children would have to get box tops labels, this happens 404 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: in um, this happens in a Christmas story, and they 405 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: would have to mail them in for like you said, 406 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: these Dakota rings, these toys, these tis it does and 407 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: and you know, the Christmas story twist being that the 408 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: message that he dcoded ended up being itself an advertisement, 409 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: wasn't really the way it would usually go, thankfully, to 410 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: give them a little bit of credit, the idea was 411 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: that this it was actually a pin. It was a 412 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: Dakota pin, and it was their most popular giveaway item. 413 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: But in the show it was almost like this way 414 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: of having like an interactive element in the show. It 415 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: would be little things where if you had to have 416 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: the dacoder pin to you know, decodeed so you felt 417 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: like you were in the know, you know, but it 418 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: would be little clues about what would happen on next 419 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 1: week's episode, right, things like send help or Sandy is safe, 420 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, things like that, and it would be you know, 421 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: it would give you this sense of like inclusion and 422 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: like feeling like you were part of the adventure or 423 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: like you know, on her team. Yeah, you were in 424 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: on it. You had knowledge that other folks, maybe even 425 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: your parents, did not possess. And this dacoder, Yeah, you're right, 426 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: it is technically a badge. This was used pretty often. 427 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Another very clever thing they did was to conduct acts 428 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: of planned obsolescence. This is planned obsolescence is when something 429 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: is purposely made to not last forever, such that a 430 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: company can sell you the same thing product or service again. 431 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: So these decoder devices, these badges weren't good forever. You 432 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: couldn't just get one. You had to get a new 433 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: when like every year or so, because if you would 434 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: try to decode stuff with last year's badge, it wouldn't work. 435 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 1: The labels had changed. So this is brilliant because everything 436 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: is centered on getting kids to sort of hold their 437 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: parents emotionally hostage for more ovalteen and uh, it's a 438 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: true story. What happens to Ralphie is based on a 439 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: true story and his desire for this to be a 440 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: member of Annie's Mystery Radio Club or the Secret Circle. 441 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: There's something that really happened to kids, maybe to some 442 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: folks who were listening or were alive at the same time. 443 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this, like the kids needed to 444 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: get their parents to move ovaltee. Kids were also the 445 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: kids are just little human beings, right, They needed to 446 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: keep up with the joneses of the playground. You didn't 447 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: want to be that last kid who got the Dakota 448 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: ring or got the Dakota badge and was late. You 449 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: know what I mean. You wanted to be in the 450 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: zeit guys. You wanted your finger on that malted milk pulse. 451 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: So parents had to battle their kids over the grocery 452 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: list and there would be more and more giveaways, but 453 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: you had to buy more and more ovaltine to get 454 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: them because they weren't really giveaways. And so parents thought, well, 455 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: what if we start boycotting ovaltine, or what if we 456 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: just boycott any company that is evolved with a show 457 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: that we don't like, maybe we can influence its content. 458 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: And that's why those advertising exacts had that list of 459 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: mustn'ts for the plots, right, They didn't want to do 460 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: things that parents objected to content wise, and broadcasters would 461 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: listen to this and they would they would fall in 462 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: line the little orphan any ovaltine overlords, that's a tongue twister, 463 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: orphan anie, ovaltine overlords. They would they would ultimately comp 464 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: chulate to the parents because they needed to keep that sweet, 465 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: sweet guilty kid money coming in, you know, you know, 466 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: and in the same way that it was kind of 467 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: up to the parents to maybe shield their kids from 468 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: some of this you know, influence from these radio shows 469 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: and make sure that they, you know, stuck to their 470 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: their school work and that they you know, give like 471 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: like like you think today, like you can have X 472 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: number of hours of TV a week and that's it, 473 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: and blah bla, blah blah. There was a certain amount 474 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: of like weak willed parenting that was going on, as 475 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: evidenced by the anecdote about the kid who essentially brow 476 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: beat his mother into you know, getting him ovaltine or 477 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: else he refused to I'll starve before I don't drink 478 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: my chocolate flavored milk, And clearly the advertisers capitalized on that. 479 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: There's an article in Newsweek on December of nineteen thirty 480 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: four saying if a weak willed mother should buy all 481 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: these prize box tops, her grocery budget would swell to 482 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: at least two dollars a week, or about thirty five 483 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents today and this boycott that you mentioned, 484 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: and I think you know, they took note. Right at 485 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: the very least, they decided, Okay, maybe if we're gonna 486 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: we're in this for the long haul, maybe we should 487 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: tone down the rhetoric a little bit and give these 488 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: parents a break, because they're really starting to hate us. 489 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we need them to 490 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: be on our side. So by the end of the thirties, 491 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: all those cliffhangers that caused kids to be like just 492 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, out of their minds with a worry until 493 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: the next episode came, well, those were toned down quite 494 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: a bit. And this actually might have kind of begun 495 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: the end of the beginning of this era of of 496 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, ubiquitous uh child directed advertising. Yeah. But that's 497 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: the thing though, because by toning down those cliffhangers and 498 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: those dark, mysterious, sinister events, they were also removing some 499 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: of the appeal that I had to children to this 500 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: young audience. The style of advertising, though, as you're pointed out, 501 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: still remained and it hasn't gone away since. So what 502 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: we see here is a precedent set just like young 503 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: Ralphie in a Christmas story, we learned the true cost 504 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: of a free giveaway, and we've got a I don't know, 505 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: there's so much to impact here, because it's like the 506 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: story of Little Orphan Any is much more than what 507 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: you find in the musical, especially when you get backstage 508 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: and you see that she is a political metaphor and 509 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: in a way she's a defire of gender stereotypes. She's 510 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: also a corporate mascot through the puppet strings of the 511 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: folks over oval team. You're always thinking about was trying 512 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: to have a modern what if and we can probably 513 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: find it better when. But my first thought is what 514 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: if Wendy from Wendy's had like the most popular weekly 515 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: show on HBO and a third of it, a third 516 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: of the plot. Every every episode, no matter what, involved 517 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: having to go to Wendy's and be knowledge bull of 518 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: the newest stuff on the menu. Also, Wendy's released a 519 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: mixtape and I'm gonna be honest with you, if you 520 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: like hip hop, it slaps. I did not want it 521 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: to be good. It is good. Wendy has been doing 522 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: a pretty good job on their like social media game 523 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: for quite some time. All a lot of those fast 524 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: food brands have They even have like feuds from time 525 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: to time. You gotta wonder if they are manufactured. But 526 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: they Oh my god, I got I got Ovalteine as 527 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: soon as we in the episode. I'm gonna listen to 528 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: the Wendy's mixtape again rest in Greece also known as 529 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: We beef in It dis track for I think McDonald's 530 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: I can what to check it out? No, it's true, 531 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, a lot of the cues 532 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: as we know, um from marketing. Uh, the lessons learned, 533 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: you know from this era. Uh, you can't be you 534 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: can't overplay your hands when it comes to marketing, and 535 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: I think Ovalteine realized that. But it's also still around. 536 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, they clearly did an okay job and pivoting 537 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: and bobbing and weaving with the times, you know, and 538 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: the comic strip itself went on until That's wild to me. 539 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: But this what a what a strange what a strange ride. 540 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: We also know that there is a new I believe 541 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: there's a new Ani musical adaptation that's either out now 542 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: or yeah have you have you guys seen it? Is 543 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: it out yet? I thought commercial for it? Either last 544 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: night or night before. I think it's coming up. I 545 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: don't think it's okay, okay, Well, with that in mind, 546 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, everybody, you think the point of this two 547 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: part series, as we draw to a close here is simply, 548 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 1: this ridiculous history is brought to you by Ovaltine. Collect 549 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: your Ovaltine box tops and send us stuff. I might 550 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: have missed the larger point. I wish I wish we 551 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: had prepared a little more. We could have given you 552 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: some sort of cryptic message to the code. How do 553 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: they do it? Wasn't it just like B three like 554 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: bingo results, kind of like X seven, you know, like 555 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: that would make sense because it would have to be 556 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: something that you couldn't solve unless you had a codex 557 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: with you, you know, because if they tried pick Latin, 558 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: people would have broke it. If they tried some like 559 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: um alphabet based cryptographical approach, somebody could have broken it. 560 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: It would have to be something where you had just 561 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: the It depended on the cipher that the audience possessed. Right, 562 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: I'm trying to awaid getting two into the idea of cryptography, 563 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: because that that itself is a whole another message, spaghetti 564 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: whole another bag of badgers. But and there's so many, 565 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: they made so many of them, ben that you can 566 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: you can buy yourself one on eBay today for just 567 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,239 Speaker 1: around thirty five to fifty bucks. They are they are 568 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: looking a little sheriff's badge almost. And the most pricey 569 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: one that I see right up front is one that 570 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: includes the actual mailer that it came in with, the 571 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: actual envelope and the addresses on it in the stamps. 572 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: That one fifty bucks. But in general, uh, and appears 573 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: you can get you can get you one of these. 574 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: And it is exactly as we describe. Ban's just a circle. 575 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: That's the codex with like a ring of letters and 576 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: then an interior ring with numbers, crazy crazy stuff, you know. 577 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: And and just for if we could get a quick 578 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: inflation calculator, let's do this. It's a reverse inflation calculator. 579 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: Clips up. Wonderful, wonderful work, gentlemen. Uh, fifty dollars in 580 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six. By the way, it would be the 581 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: equivalent of nine d and nine four dollars two cents today, right. Well, 582 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: I think Uh, Daddy Warbucks would be proud. Daddy Warbucks 583 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: would be proud. Yes, And we are as always super 584 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: grateful and proud for the opportunity to explore these ridiculous 585 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: stories with you today, folks. Also, this one was a 586 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: two parter to us because it it's on so many 587 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: themes that are applicable in the modern day. Dare I 588 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: say it maybe to some parents who are feeling some 589 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of stress from their kids 590 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: who need to have the thing. And it can't be 591 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: a thing like the thing. It has to be that 592 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: thing specifically that you know, it can't be It can't 593 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: be a cuddle meat grover tickle meal. No, no, that's 594 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: not gonna fly. Let us know what you're coveted childhood 595 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: item was and do you like opal zane? Do you 596 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: do you cream of wheat? That was another big one. 597 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: Remember we wouldn't even get into it but around this time, 598 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 1: or I guess a little later. That's when we got 599 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: into things like the craft you know, television, you know 600 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: hour or whatever, craft like the cool Gate Hour, cool 601 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: Gate Hour exactly, you know. But all of those that 602 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: they were always a single sponsor. A lot of them 603 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: were done live, and they you know, constantly bounced back 604 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: to whoever the spokesperson was and a separate little shooting 605 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: scenario in the studio with like boxes of the thing 606 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: behind them. So let us know if you're from that 607 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: air what you remember fondly, because honestly, nowadays we just 608 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: wouldn't put up with that. It's us a little much. 609 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: Even though with the streaming and the podcasting, like we're 610 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, we are in a weird new space 611 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: where advertising has kind of gotten clunky and weird again, 612 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, the same as it 613 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: ever was, and it is sort of a renaissance in 614 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: that way. You're right, because a new technology has entered 615 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: the playing field. And what will the future bring Well, 616 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: hopefully we'll be with you to explore it together. Thanks 617 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer, Mr Max Williams, Thanks 618 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: to Casey Pegram, Thanks to our own little orphan Annie 619 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, a k a. The Quister Or is he 620 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: more of a Daddy warbox? You think he is quite 621 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: bald um as his daddy warbox, But if you were 622 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: a little orphan anti figure, I mean he's got his 623 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: dog Timbolt, which would be his trusty companion for solving mysteries. Yeah, 624 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,479 Speaker 1: and and I'll say it, he has a lovely singing voice. 625 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: He does, it's very true. I don't know. I feel 626 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: like he's more of a sidekick though fair enough. Joe 627 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: corn Tassel, Yeah, he's a drawing corant task completely. He 628 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: would he would uh, he would wrinkle at at that 629 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: second second fiddle status. But we'll see, we'll we'll get 630 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: with his agents. We'll see what he we'll see what 631 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: he prefers. Um. Also, it's always huge. Thanks to Alex 632 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,800 Speaker 1: Williams who composed our theme, Christopher Hastiods Neaves, Jeff Coates 633 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: here in spirit and to you Ben. I'm not sure 634 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: which of us is which, but between the two thos 635 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: who make a hell of a team for solving you know, 636 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: ridiculous history mysteries and you know, beating down the man. 637 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 1: Let's do a hearty boys. Oh, we'll do a hardly boys, 638 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: so we don't get super love it. We'll see you 639 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: next time. Books. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, 640 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,240 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 641 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.