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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along

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Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day

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Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,

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Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Well So nost they reported

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Speaker 1: better than expected numbers last night after the closed raised

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Speaker 1: their forward guidance. The stock market like it's likes it.

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Speaker 1: It's up seventeen percent today, s O n O on

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Speaker 1: your Bloomberg terminal stocks up seventeen percent today, fifty seven

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Speaker 1: percent year to date, and about a hundred sixty seven

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Speaker 1: percent on a trailing twelve month basis. So this story

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Speaker 1: is absolutely working for shareholders. To give us the latest.

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Speaker 1: We welcome so to CEO of Patrick Spence. Patrick talked

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Speaker 1: to us first about your earnings last night. Big numbers,

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Speaker 1: the street like some what are the key takeaways? Yeah, thanks, Paul. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have really capitalized on the system that

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Speaker 1: we've built over the last nineteen years. And know I

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Speaker 1: mentioned last quarter we'd hit an inflection point. I feel

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Speaker 1: like we're just you know, continuing to go from strength

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Speaker 1: to strength on the back of that, and certainly you're

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Speaker 1: one of the big trends here is just the explosion

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Speaker 1: in audio, right, so you see it with podcasts, the

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Speaker 1: streaming music, take up audio, books, and now social audio.

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Speaker 1: So audio is booming and we are a huge beneficiary

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Speaker 1: of that. Patrick, I'm going to ask them one question

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Speaker 1: that's been on everyone's minds for a long time. You

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Speaker 1: know what that is? Are we getting headphones? You know?

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Speaker 1: And you know we don't talk about a product roadmap,

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Speaker 1: but look, but you said we would. We are a

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Speaker 1: small player in the whole audio category. Today, we see

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Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity in a number of categories that

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Speaker 1: we're not in today. So, uh, stay tuned because I

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Speaker 1: think over time, uh, you know, you can expect to

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Speaker 1: see us play in every category of audio. All right, Patrick,

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Speaker 1: give us a sense of how your business. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of rewind back to early March of last year, kind

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Speaker 1: of just give us a sense of how you our

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Speaker 1: business changed in March of Yeah, it was you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a shock. Obviously, our first focus was on

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Speaker 1: the health and safety of our people. So March thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: we all headed home and we've been working from home

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Speaker 1: ever since, UH, and I just have been astounded by

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Speaker 1: you know, I knew we had the best team in

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Speaker 1: the world. I might be a little bit biased, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, to see the way

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Speaker 1: that everybody has adapted, UH, and how resilient they've been

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Speaker 1: in the face of all the challenges that we've had

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Speaker 1: this year. And you you guys know, supply chain has

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Speaker 1: been a massive issue this year, right with all these shortages,

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Speaker 1: everything that's been happening, and our team has just done

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Speaker 1: a phenomenal job, like you know, end to end in

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Speaker 1: terms of being able to manage our business, create new products,

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Speaker 1: launched new products, sell our products. I mean, our DTC

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Speaker 1: sales have been off the charts, UH, in the midst

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Speaker 1: of a pandemic and working from home, and so I

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Speaker 1: am just so proud of the team and grateful. But

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Speaker 1: it's really been a team effort, UH, and the adaptability

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Speaker 1: and resilience has been incredible. Patrick, how do you sell sons?

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Speaker 1: So the sense of you know, high end audio is

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Speaker 1: such a specialized field and it's so particular, and at

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Speaker 1: the same time, if you walk into a store and

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Speaker 1: you don't know enowful lot about the back brands, backgrounds

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Speaker 1: or what have you. What's to stop somebody buying a

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Speaker 1: Bows over a Sun Nos. Yeah, well, I think the

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Speaker 1: you know, you can get started with sas for So

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Speaker 1: we've really democratized that and democratized and brought kind of

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Speaker 1: high end audio um to the masses, if you will.

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Speaker 1: And the best place I would want you to experience

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Speaker 1: so Nos is someone else's home and that's where that's

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Speaker 1: the number one driver of our new customers is actually

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Speaker 1: hearing about Sons from a friend or family member, and

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Speaker 1: that's how they come into the Sons ecosystem. And that

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Speaker 1: is huge, right, It's a huge testament to the power

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Speaker 1: of the brand, a huge testament to the customer experience

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Speaker 1: that we deliver today. And the nice thing about Sons

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Speaker 1: and what's different than all the traditional audio brands is

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Speaker 1: that you can start with one, you can start with many,

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Speaker 1: and then you add more over time. So one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest things that we we talked about in this

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Speaker 1: last quarter is that we had a record percentage of

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Speaker 1: our existing customers coming back in the quarter and adding

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Speaker 1: another product to their Sonos system, not replacing, but rather

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Speaker 1: adding another Sonos product into their home which um is

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Speaker 1: just a testament to the kind of products we build

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Speaker 1: in the brand We've built your where again in Santa

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Speaker 1: Barbara because me and Paul will come right over and

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Speaker 1: and tast that out. I tried. You know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Toronto, so I I think I've paid my

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Speaker 1: dues when it comes to snow and the cold and

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Speaker 1: all of those things. But you're welcome any time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting. So, um, Patrick, I'm a former investment banker.

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Speaker 1: When I see a stock up as much as yours is,

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Speaker 1: I know you don't necessarily need the cash. Any thoughts

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Speaker 1: of raising equity here and take advantage of your strong

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Speaker 1: stock price. Uh No. We we reported record cash levels

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Speaker 1: and we paid off a little bit of debt that

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Speaker 1: we had, so debt free we bout six hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: million on the balance sheet. We are fully focused on

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Speaker 1: how do we invest that to drive more growth and

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Speaker 1: build on this momentum through you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: acquisitions or organic efforts. But um, we are just uh,

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Speaker 1: we feel like we have great momentum. There's a massive

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Speaker 1: opportunity in front of us. It's all about investing. Patrick.

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Speaker 1: It's an absolute pleasure to speak with you when should

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Speaker 1: we expect maybe another product updates? Briefly, Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: we actually I mentioned last night that we have a product,

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Speaker 1: new product coming next month, so we're excited about that.

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Speaker 1: And we also have our first investor event on March nine,

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Speaker 1: so uh, stay tuned for that one. Well, that is exciting.

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Speaker 1: sUAS of course US based and just a wonderful audio

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Speaker 1: product maker, charging cradles, adapters, controller as well as speakers,

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Speaker 1: you know, loudspeakers, amps, anything that you could possibly think of,

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Speaker 1: and they are based in Santa Barbara, California with about

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred employees. Patrick Spence is CEO of Well, it's

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Speaker 1: our pleasure now to bring in Dr lucas A Jumpa,

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Speaker 1: who's chief environmental officer for Microsoft. No less, it's the

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Speaker 1: first time that there husband the chief environmental officers. So basically,

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Speaker 1: Dr Joppa is leading the development and execution of any

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Speaker 1: sustainability strategy that Microsoft comes up with across its worldwide business.

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Speaker 1: So Dr Joppa, thanks for joining. What have you decided

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Speaker 1: Microsoft needs to do in terms of sustainability, Well, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me on the show. Really a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: talk about sustainability, particularly now in UM in today's climate

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Speaker 1: in today's administration here in the United States. I think

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Speaker 1: a little bit ago, about a year ago, Microsoft stepped

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Speaker 1: back and asked itself if we thought we were doing

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Speaker 1: enough on sustainability. I think the clear answer was no,

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Speaker 1: everybody needs to do more. We put in place an

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Speaker 1: acceleration of our ambition really to see a set industry

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Speaker 1: leading commitments across four key areas, carbon, water, waste, and ecosystems.

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Speaker 1: And we spent the last year setting those commitments, which

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Speaker 1: were designed to address what's the best available science says

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Speaker 1: every individual organization and ultimately our global economy needs to do.

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Speaker 1: And we culminated the year with a set of commitments

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Speaker 1: to see us by committing to be a carbon negative,

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Speaker 1: water positive, zero waste company that's also protecting more land

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Speaker 1: than we use and building out the computational infrastructure of

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Speaker 1: what we call a planetary computer to help society better

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Speaker 1: manage natural resources. So I think those that set of

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Speaker 1: commitments really does concisely represent what we think needs to

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Speaker 1: be done. And about two weeks ago we issued our

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Speaker 1: first annual report that was kind of a a progress

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Speaker 1: report on how we've done in the first year of

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Speaker 1: not just commitment setting, but also working towards achieving our

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Speaker 1: commitments in saw some great progress. We reduced our emissions

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Speaker 1: by six percent, a little over six percent. We managed

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Speaker 1: to complete a pretty historic removal of carbon purchase of

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Speaker 1: carbon move all of about one point three million metric tons.

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Speaker 1: Both of those things put us well on our way

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Speaker 1: to being a carbon negative company by so, Dr Choppa,

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Speaker 1: how do we uh, you know e s G investing

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Speaker 1: environmental sustainability, social governance. I mean it's becoming a big,

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Speaker 1: big part of the investment community investment process. How do

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Speaker 1: we hold senior managers, board members accountable for these goals?

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Speaker 1: Tell us how Microsoft does that? Because a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks are just concerned that this is rhetoric from corporate

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Speaker 1: America and not net's say, something that's measured, uh and

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Speaker 1: maybe reflecting compensation for for example, Well, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that we thought was important was to represent it

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Speaker 1: in compensation for our senior leaders. So after a lot

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Speaker 1: of thinking about this, this is exact question that you pose,

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Speaker 1: how do you hold senior leaders accountable? We um We

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Speaker 1: announced as as part of our one year and the

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Speaker 1: Anniversary announcement, that we would be tying executive compensation of

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Speaker 1: our CEO, our president, our CFO, and the senior leadership

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Speaker 1: team more broadly to meeting our sustainability goals. And I

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Speaker 1: think that is just absolutely critical in the corporate context

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Speaker 1: to really tie it directly to the core compensation incentivization

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Speaker 1: measures that any company holds. So what does that specifically

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Speaker 1: mean for our products? Will we notice any difference? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: I hope so, um, But in many respects, we don't

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Speaker 1: really want you to notice a lot of difference. We

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Speaker 1: want your products that UM that you consume from Microsoft

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Speaker 1: to you know, be as as as helpful as as

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Speaker 1: they possibly can be, but we want them to do

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Speaker 1: that in a way that's increasingly environmentally sustainable. So should

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Speaker 1: you notice that your products are being powered by renewable

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Speaker 1: energy um, like they will be by for all of

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Speaker 1: our cloud customers. I wouldn't expect you to notice that,

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Speaker 1: but I would expect you to just by default receive

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Speaker 1: those benefits by just being a customer of Microsoft. Would

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Speaker 1: I expect you to notice that, you know, all of

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Speaker 1: the hardware and componentry of our data centers, for instance,

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Speaker 1: are part of a new circular cloud initiatives that where

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Speaker 1: we have behind our secure private perimeter of our data centers,

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Speaker 1: increasing our reusability and recycling of all of our componentry

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Speaker 1: by up You probably won't notice that either, but all

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Speaker 1: of our customers are going to receive those sustainability benefits

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Speaker 1: by default. It's been up to us to be able

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Speaker 1: to provide those reporting platforms so that those who care

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Speaker 1: do have access to that information, so that they can

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Speaker 1: included in their external third party reporting into their stakeholders

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Speaker 1: and shareholders. Dr Choppic spent twenty seconds here just give

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Speaker 1: us a sense of the governments that you work with

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Speaker 1: around the world. How cooperative have they been? Well? You

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Speaker 1: just I think everybody is seeing the tide shift here

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Speaker 1: and governments all around the world. We have a new

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Speaker 1: administration here in the United States, we saw some extremely

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Speaker 1: interesting executive orders putting the full weight of government into

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Speaker 1: um clean climate procurement decisions, putting science at the at

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Speaker 1: the center of decision making. UH. In the EU we

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Speaker 1: see just you know, rapid progress on this. I think

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Speaker 1: this is the We're starting to see the dominoes fall

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Speaker 1: all across the world on progressive policy. UM right, progressive

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Speaker 1: climate policy very good. We will certainly be paying attention

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Speaker 1: going for Dr Lucas job a Chief Environmental Officer for Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: based of course in Redmond, Washington, as a company accelerates

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Speaker 1: its plans for to go green, to become even more green. Well,

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Speaker 1: New York City restaurants they will be open their indoor

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Speaker 1: dining too about capacity beginning tomorrow, just in time for

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Speaker 1: the Valentine's Day rush. This is good news for restaurants.

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Speaker 1: A question is how good? Uh is this news? Let's

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Speaker 1: check with Kate Creator. She's a food editor for Bloomberg Pursuits,

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Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from New York City. So, Kate,

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Speaker 1: it's good news for the restaurants, I think, but I'm

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Speaker 1: just not sure how good? What do you think? That's

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Speaker 1: exactly right. It's good news and the optics of it

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Speaker 1: are good, and it gets restaurants names out there. You

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Speaker 1: get to think about it, you know, get the gears going.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of financial like windfall, it's nowhere near that.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it's a lost for a lot of them

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Speaker 1: to open. Will they be able to access more p

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Speaker 1: P P if we get I mean at the moment

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Speaker 1: it's eight million dollars in the proposal by the administration

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Speaker 1: and may not end up at eight hundred plus billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: but that's where it is at now. Would these restaurants

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Speaker 1: that have managed to stay open or to close and

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Speaker 1: reopen be able to access more of that? Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: should on the new loans are definitely geared more left

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Speaker 1: prochained and more towards independent restaurants. And there's a news

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Speaker 1: there's a cent five billion dollar federally built for restaurants

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Speaker 1: that is getting some attention and everyone is very hopeful

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Speaker 1: about that. That that's the kind of thing that makes

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Speaker 1: it different. You know, not not opening for tables on

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Speaker 1: you know, right before Valentine's Day, that's not that's not

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Speaker 1: sustaining restaurant. So it kind of just you know, reading

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Speaker 1: your story on the Bloomberg terminal with you and your team,

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Speaker 1: lots of great reporting in there. So I guess one

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Speaker 1: of the issues is I got a lot of restaurants

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Speaker 1: laid off staff when they were forced to close. Can

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Speaker 1: they even get that staff back and be ready to go?

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Speaker 1: It seems like kind of a rush here. It's a

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Speaker 1: great question. And yeah, I think even geting up towards

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Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, um that that in itself was its talents.

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Speaker 1: But when Cuomo made a relatively last minute call to

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Speaker 1: open on Friday the twelfth instead of Sunday the fourteenth.

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Speaker 1: It gives it gives restaurants a couple more days to

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Speaker 1: celebrate Valentine's Day, but it's really short notice because a

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Speaker 1: lot of restaurant workers can afford a New York City

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Speaker 1: rent and have moved away. So it's been a scramble

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Speaker 1: for a lot of them to staff their dining rooms. Okay,

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Speaker 1: in your story, there's this sentence, and it's just so sad. Already,

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Speaker 1: more than one hundreds and thousand restaurants have closed permanently

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Speaker 1: or for the long term across the country, with New

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Speaker 1: York City seeing more than four thousand closures according to

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Speaker 1: the New York State Restaurant Association. These closures. Any hope

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Speaker 1: that these these chefs and these managers and so on,

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Speaker 1: that they'll reopen maybe once rent goes down in certain areas. Yeah, Bunny,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I really want to be hopeful about that.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, there's so much talent, and you can

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Speaker 1: see from the way so many restaurants activity there, you know,

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Speaker 1: their models to do take out and Neil kids. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of opportunity for them. But there's

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Speaker 1: also a fear. This is another story we're working on that. UM.

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Speaker 1: For all the real estate opportunities out there, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be the changes that are going to sweep in

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Speaker 1: and take advantage of it. UM. So, to go back

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Speaker 1: to what Paul was saying, hopefully, when the loans come through,

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Speaker 1: UM some good enterprising steps and UM restaurant people will

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Speaker 1: be able to take advantage of that. Okay, My understanding

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Speaker 1: of the economics of the restaurant business is it's very

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Speaker 1: very thin margins and you have to be at or near,

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Speaker 1: you know, full capacity and turn over the tables and

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Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, and it just seems like

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Speaker 1: an unsustainable level. What are some of these restaurant owners

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Speaker 1: hoping for the hoping to get back to full capacity

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Speaker 1: by the spring, by the summer. What are they saying? Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: there's a big UM, there's a big place some New

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Speaker 1: York City. UM restaurateurs are lobbying hard UM. The blog

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Speaker 1: you and Cuomo too quickly open at I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: a hundred percent is I wouldn't even guess when that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. But when outdoor dining can come back

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Speaker 1: strong or been fantastic innovations on that front. I think

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Speaker 1: with indoor dining and outdoor dining like nice Weather and

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Speaker 1: all those accommodations of the NATE, that's starting to be

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Speaker 1: a much more sustainable model for restaurants. But like Daniel

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Speaker 1: Ballut is the great TEP. Daniel Blues said, another another

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Speaker 1: hard factor for them is that there's a mandated closure

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Speaker 1: at ten PM, and that means a lot of these

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Speaker 1: restaurants at only twenty percent, can only do one service

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Speaker 1: at night. If it was extended to eleven, they might

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Speaker 1: be able to do two services. And that is you

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Speaker 1: can imagine double the amount of people you can bring in.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny places where there are more people, like

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Speaker 1: New Jersey have higher capacity. So right now it's it's

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Speaker 1: a thirty five present capacity and Westchester is operating at

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Speaker 1: half capacity. And apparently that's where everybody went. You would

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Speaker 1: have thought that New York City, which is empti or

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Speaker 1: would be able to you know, here in New Jersey

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Speaker 1: at the restaurants, they are at capacity. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you cool, the demand is there, yeah, absolutely, Kate. Finally,

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Speaker 1: our landlords giving any concessions and totally I have heard

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Speaker 1: that they are absolutely not giving any concessions, which really

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Speaker 1: surprises me. Yeah, and ectotally I've heard to say saying,

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Speaker 1: although actually I've heard that they're starting to there's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's there's so much empty store front now, so many

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Speaker 1: of them. Um, I think they are starting to realize

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Speaker 1: or make or instead of doing like long term leases,

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Speaker 1: doing short leases, which um I think convenitate of combetit

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Speaker 1: at restaurants who might want to try and experiment and

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Speaker 1: do something, but now it's not happening. It's fast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean literally Midtown Manhattan. You're talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: ninety dollars per square foot. You know, it's it's an

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Speaker 1: insane amount of rent. But that's because there are normally

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Speaker 1: tourists all over the place and every place is always full,

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Speaker 1: and you know it can withstand that. But I can

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Speaker 1: tell you Midtown Manhattan is absolutely empty. Kate Craters, thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's a great story. On the Bloomberg Wall Street. Time

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Opinion today we are joined by Ferdinando Giuliano,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion editor. His column is entitled Who's booking their

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Speaker 1: beach holiday? Are Ready? And it really goes to the

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Speaker 1: issue of as more and more people get shots how

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Speaker 1: much freedom should they have for the NANDO Thanks much

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Speaker 1: for joining us here. Give us a key takeaways here.

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Speaker 1: How do you think this is going to play out

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Speaker 1: as more and more people begin to get jobs. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to become a very important issue

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Speaker 1: at the moment um. You know, the data collected shows

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Speaker 1: that we've got around nine at least nineteen million people

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Speaker 1: in the ward who have been fully vaccinated. That means

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Speaker 1: two jobs because the existing vaccines required to thoses as

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Speaker 1: we know, uh and half of them are in the

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Speaker 1: United States. But as the rollout continues, this number is

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Speaker 1: going to grow, so governments will face demands to give

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Speaker 1: more freedom to people who have been fully fully immunized. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I think there are both medical and ethical issues

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Speaker 1: with giving these people, uh the sports back. You know,

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Speaker 1: we can call them passports if you want to detail

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Speaker 1: some of those medical issues if you will. I think

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Speaker 1: the artical issues we can probably imagine a little easier,

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Speaker 1: but the medical the main medical issues that we are

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Speaker 1: still not quite sure whether people who have been immunized

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Speaker 1: are infectious or not. In other words, we know that

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Speaker 1: vaccines are very effective in preventing, especially the world forms

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Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen. But we don't know yet with certainty

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Speaker 1: whether you can still spread the virus to other individuals.

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Speaker 1: And these issue is key. If you think, for example,

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Speaker 1: about doctors. I mean, doctors have been vaccinated first partly

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Speaker 1: to protect them, but mainly to um, you know, make

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Speaker 1: sure that they don't spread the virus to the people

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Speaker 1: who are in hospital are very fragile. Now imagine we

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Speaker 1: give we tell officers that we can they can just

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Speaker 1: roll around freely because you know, we want to give

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Speaker 1: them this passport, but they could become dangerous. Now there

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Speaker 1: is mounting evidence that perhaps these facts do protect from infection.

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Speaker 1: Once we have certainty that you know, their protection from

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Speaker 1: infection is very high, then we can set these medical

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Speaker 1: issues aside. But for now we just can't. Well, it

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Speaker 1: seems like there's also an economic argument here that we

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Speaker 1: all know on a global scale, um that you know,

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Speaker 1: the economic disruption and impact from closing down is just

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Speaker 1: too great. And it seems to me that you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess the argument could be made that hey, if

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Speaker 1: you're fully inoculated, go out and start living your life,

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Speaker 1: go to restaurants, go to Disney World. What are the

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Speaker 1: ethical issues associated with that that seems kind of straightforward

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people. But the issues that at

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Speaker 1: the moment, the distribution of back the supply of vaccines

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Speaker 1: is constrained, and the distribution of vaccine is tightly enforced

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Speaker 1: by politicians and the public health authorities. In other words,

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Speaker 1: if you're not vaccinated, it's not your choice, is because

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Speaker 1: the state has decided that you're not a priority group,

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Speaker 1: and for good reasons. I mean, I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: debating that. I think it's absolutely right that we are

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Speaker 1: take care first of all of the people who are

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Speaker 1: most at risk. But should then you know the fact

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Speaker 1: that the government is taking care of you by giving you, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know this um priority treatment allow you to go

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Speaker 1: and live your life, you know, better than those who

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Speaker 1: are further down the queue just because they're younger or um,

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Speaker 1: you know, they they don't have an underlying condition. I

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Speaker 1: think this is a real question and it could put

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Speaker 1: a lot more pressure on government to make different forms

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Speaker 1: of choice is from the ones they are making, again

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Speaker 1: for very good reasons. And one final point I think

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Speaker 1: is a generational issue. Let's remember a lot of young

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Speaker 1: people have been foured to stay at home. Maybe I've

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Speaker 1: lost their jobs, maybe couldn't attend schools because we were here.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were really trying to protect the elderly.

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Speaker 1: Now imagine a society where youngsters have been you know,

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Speaker 1: really been at home to protect the elderly and are

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Speaker 1: now fourced at home again, while the elderly can roam

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Speaker 1: around freely. I think they would feel very agreed. Do

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Speaker 1: we need all or most countries to get on the

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Speaker 1: same board or is it possible for each country to

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Speaker 1: sort of treat their citizens a different way and for

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Speaker 1: the world to go back to normal somehow well, I

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Speaker 1: think you know on many issues, like you know what

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Speaker 1: happens to your social life, your habits, whether you can

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Speaker 1: go to a restaurant and stadium or a concert, each

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Speaker 1: country can go alone. Obviously, on traveling, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be very different and there needs to be some coordination,

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Speaker 1: which is why the Greek Prime Minister Carya mits attack

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Speaker 1: is is very worried about the risk of another wasted

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Speaker 1: summer or a tourist dependents is asking the you to

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Speaker 1: adopt a joint position on this very issue. I think

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Speaker 1: where it comes to traveling that will need to be

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Speaker 1: co ordination. But I think at the moment um. Governments

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Speaker 1: are still grappling, even just domestically, with what the answer

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Speaker 1: they should give to this question. So for an under way,

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Speaker 1: what really think we should be focusing on to get

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Speaker 1: a sense of how this might play out. Is it

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Speaker 1: you know, some of the policies and the travel companies

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Speaker 1: um or from governments per se. I'm just not sure

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Speaker 1: what's going to be the driving forces about how we reopen.

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Speaker 1: Is it going to be driven by the government or

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Speaker 1: is it gonna be driven by the market. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think on the governments. Are governments are going to

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Speaker 1: be key because as we as we know, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're being able to enforce their draconian rules over time.

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Speaker 1: So if they just are you know, companies from doing something,

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Speaker 1: companies will simply have to obey. But we also know

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Speaker 1: that you know, there's gonna be once you know, I

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Speaker 1: think the vaccine becomes more widely widespread, I think companies

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Speaker 1: will say some very important questions and governments will need

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Speaker 1: to provide answers. I think an obvious question issue is

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Speaker 1: whether where the companies will be able to dismiss workers

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Speaker 1: who do not want to get vaccinated. And I think

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Speaker 1: this is something which is going to be a very

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Speaker 1: big question, which I think legal scholars should already start

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Speaker 1: thinking about. Yeah, I mean I presently court cases to

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Speaker 1: that effect, right absolutely, And you know, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: all in favor of personal freedom, but when you start

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Speaker 1: thinking about some jobs, like people work in care homes,

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Speaker 1: you realize that having someone who doesn't to get vaccinated

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Speaker 1: is going to be a major, major issue, and not

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Speaker 1: just getting your personal It's not just an issue of

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Speaker 1: your own personal freedom, but it's an issue of the

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Speaker 1: safety of the people you work for. It is just

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Speaker 1: mind boggling the amount of people that are going to

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Speaker 1: have to get vaccinated in order for a workforce and

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Speaker 1: its entirety to go back to work. And again today

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Speaker 1: we saw initial droll these claims, a big disappointment. So

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Speaker 1: people aren't going back to work for many reasons right now,

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Speaker 1: so it's not as urgent question, Ferdinando, it is a

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Speaker 1: very thought provoking column. Thanks for joining us today. Ferdinando

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Speaker 1: Giugliano is Bloomberg Opinion editor. In the column, if you

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Speaker 1: want to look it up, is who's booking their beach

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Speaker 1: holiday already? Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Markets podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or

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Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on

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00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: Twitter at Bonny Quinn. And I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always

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Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio. Well oh,