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Speaker 1: Okay, we're back with a classic for today. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the interest of full disclosure, I often refer to

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Speaker 1: this as one of my favorite titles of any episode.

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Speaker 1: Was Benjamin Franklin a serial killer?

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Speaker 2: Yes? End of episode. Well, okay, it's more complicated than that.

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Speaker 2: Lots going on with this fella.

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Speaker 3: He was a lot of things, an inventor, a statesman,

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Speaker 3: a bit of a perv.

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Speaker 2: You know, and possibly a serial killer. You be the judge.

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Speaker 1: Let's find out. From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back

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Speaker 1: now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 4: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 4: my name is Noble.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined, of course, as

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Speaker 1: always with our long suffering super producer Paul Decant. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. You guys, I'm gonna set us

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Speaker 1: up with a with a pretty much gimme question. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever been to d.

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Speaker 4: C d C Comics. I know it was a place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I went to Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, hold on one.

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Speaker 3: I was there on the day of the Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: inauguration and that town was on fire and felt like

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Speaker 3: a third world country.

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Speaker 2: It was very strange.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever been to Philadelphia?

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I've seen the Liberty Bell, my friends.

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Speaker 2: That's what everyone says.

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Speaker 1: Is it as true?

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Speaker 2: I thought, that's literally my Philadelphia story too, That's all.

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Speaker 2: That's why I said that.

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Speaker 1: So is is it impressive in person?

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Speaker 4: It's definitely a bell with a crack in a big

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Speaker 4: old crack yep.

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Speaker 1: So uh, mass this because today, folks, our episode centers

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Speaker 1: on the formation of the United States in a way,

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Speaker 1: the founding Fathers in a way, and eccentricity in a

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Speaker 1: very real way. We're exploring the strange life and the

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Speaker 1: unknown facets of Benjamin Franklin. But who is Benjamin Franklin?

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Speaker 1: First off, since we already know so much about Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: Oh, how do you? I haven't been able to get tickets.

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Speaker 2: I don't know jack about Hamilton.

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Speaker 4: That soundtrack never stops at my house. You can get

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Speaker 4: the soundtrack, yeah, you can spotify baby. So Benjamin Franklin

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Speaker 4: was born on January eleventh, seventeen oh six, in a

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Speaker 4: house in Milk Street in Boston. Milk Street, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 4: very very white. Milky Street in Boston. Over the course

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Speaker 4: of two marriages, his father, Josiah Franklin, had seventeen children,

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Speaker 4: how irresponsible.

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Speaker 1: And Benjamin, who was a child of the second marriage,

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Speaker 1: was the fifteenth kid and the youngest son.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I bet he got his ass kicked.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, just wait yeah. Unlike some founding fathers,

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin was born and what would later become the

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Speaker 1: United States, but at the time this area was known

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Speaker 1: as the Massachusetts Bay Colony. His father, Josiah was a

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Speaker 1: soap and candlemaker, and he was raised Presbyterian. Although his

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Speaker 1: father intended Ben to serve in the church since he

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Speaker 1: was the youngest son, Benjamin Franklin was not, as you

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Speaker 1: might imagine, super into this idea.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a story that occurs a lot. Father has

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Speaker 4: aspirations for the oldest or the youngest a lot of

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Speaker 4: times to become essentially the father, like to continue on

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Speaker 4: the life of the father.

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Speaker 1: Right to follow in the footsteps. Right. At age ten,

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Speaker 1: Benjamin became an apprentice at his father's shop, and Franklin,

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Speaker 1: the elder, was very concerned that ben might decide to

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Speaker 1: become a sailor like one of his older brothers, a

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Speaker 1: guy named Josiah Junior. So Franklin the elder had Ben

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Speaker 1: join one of his other older brothers, because again there's

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Speaker 1: a whole litter of these, these guys as an indentured

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Speaker 1: apprentice at the printing press. And what does this mean exactly?

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Speaker 2: An indentured apprentice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't it sort of like an indentured servant, but

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Speaker 3: you get like work experience.

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Speaker 2: It's like being an intern kind Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great description though, because it means that

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Speaker 1: Benjamin couldn't earn wages that he could keep until he

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Speaker 1: was twenty one. And go into your earlier question about

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Speaker 1: ass kicking. It turns out Ben's brother, James was a nightmare.

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Speaker 1: He was abusive, he was resentful, I think physically abusive.

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Speaker 1: And part of it, pro Franklin historians will tell you

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Speaker 1: is because James was very mad that Benjamin was already

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Speaker 1: better at printing than he was.

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Speaker 2: Probably better at like everything. It's Benjamin Franklin we're talking about.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you know anything about him, you know

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Speaker 3: he was a jack of all trades, a renaissance man.

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Speaker 4: Oh yes, it's very true. And then pretty soon after

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Speaker 4: all of this was going down, James the brother founded

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Speaker 4: this thing called the New England Current. It was the

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Speaker 4: second newspaper in America. And Ben was still, you know,

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Speaker 4: doing his indentured workitude thing, and he was relegated to

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Speaker 4: setting letters, which is a laborious task takes forever. It's

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Speaker 4: very difficult and it's mostly just time consuming and exacting.

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Speaker 4: Then he had to sell papers door to door. But

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Speaker 4: he wanted to actually get in on writing stuff that

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Speaker 4: went into the paper rather than just doing the mechanical

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Speaker 4: labor of making it happen.

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Speaker 1: And his brother hated that idea.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he was not into it either. So he, like

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Speaker 4: a lot of writers or aspiring writers, came up with

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Speaker 4: a pseudonym Silence do good or dogged good, Silence de good.

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Speaker 3: I think that sounds like the name of, like the

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Speaker 3: real life name of of a superhero character, like a

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Speaker 3: Marvel character from the you know, seventies.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, maybe it was Selence do go perhaps, perhaps,

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Speaker 5: but Silence if we go with Silence had a backstory, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So Silence is allegedly a widow, and Silence had

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Speaker 4: strong objections to arbitrary government and the unlimited power welded

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Speaker 4: by these arbitrary governments.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, Benjamin Franklin gets an opportunity to travel to the

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Speaker 1: United Kingdom. Being like almost anyone his age, he says

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Speaker 1: his Times version of hell yes yeah, and travels to England.

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Speaker 1: He returns from London into what will later become the

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Speaker 1: United States and found his own print shop.

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Speaker 3: So Franklin continued to work in Philadelphia as a printer,

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Speaker 3: also an inventor and an activist. And Ben, I just

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Speaker 3: want to real quickly aside, We did an episode in

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Speaker 3: our podcast other podcast side podcast, Ridiculous History, about how

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Speaker 3: Ben Franklin invented a phonetic alphabets, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: that was rooted in his love of type setting and

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Speaker 3: fascination with the written language and how you know it

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Speaker 3: was different than the spoken language.

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Speaker 2: So that was a big foundation for his.

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Speaker 1: Work absolutely, and eventually by seventeen seventy five he is

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Speaker 1: elected to represent the state of Pennsylvania in the Second

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Speaker 1: Continental Congress. We're skipping over a lot of his early

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Speaker 1: life here because we want to get to the strange stuff.

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Speaker 1: But we should at least talk about the Revolutionary War.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, which which happened almost immediately after that. A

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Speaker 4: year later, in seventeen seventy six, Franklin is appointed as

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Speaker 4: a member of the Committee of Five. And these are

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Speaker 4: the people you may have heard about early on in

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Speaker 4: your childhood education. These are the people that drafted the

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Speaker 4: Declaration of Independence, the people who really, I mean, if

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Speaker 4: you want to say founding fathers, you gotta throw them

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Speaker 4: in there, because they made the.

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Speaker 3: Document, which was another thing that I saw in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 3: It's all coming back to me, flooding back Independence Hall.

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Speaker 3: You can go and see that storied document preserved in glass,

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Speaker 3: and you're not supposed to even touch the glass.

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Speaker 4: So go to Philadelphia. A tour of the United States

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Speaker 4: before it was and as it became.

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Speaker 2: You should work for the Pennsylvania Tourism Boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Math's secret life. So this was a difficult

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Speaker 1: time for Franklin because he was temporarily disabled by gout.

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Speaker 1: He was unable to attend most meetings of the Committee

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Speaker 1: as a consequence, but he reportedly made several small, crucial

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Speaker 1: changes to the draft of the Declaration that was sent

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Speaker 1: to him by Thomas Jefferson.

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Speaker 4: Very nice. So he's like the editor that makes those

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Speaker 4: last little changes, and then the other writers are like,

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Speaker 4: oh darn.

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Speaker 1: You, yeah, you know I think that's accurate in many ways.

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Speaker 1: This this time is when you'll also hear one of

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Speaker 1: his most famous real quotes, as opposed to all the

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Speaker 1: fake stuff you can find on the internet. He says

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Speaker 1: at the signing, John Hancock said they all have to

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Speaker 1: hang together, and then Benjamin Franklin reportedly said, yes.

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Speaker 4: We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly, we

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Speaker 4: shall all hang separately.

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Speaker 2: Let's hang together like we're doing right now.

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Speaker 1: That's the way I like to picture it. I like

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Speaker 1: to picture like after they signed, John Hancock was doing

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Speaker 1: the version of you know what, let's go get a drink.

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Speaker 1: We should all hang out more often. We should hang together.

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Speaker 2: Can either hang together or hang alone.

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Speaker 4: But most assuredly we will be hanged.

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Speaker 2: I think that's now not quite right.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that's what he's saying here.

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Speaker 1: Well, be that as it may. Benjamin Franklin was never

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Speaker 1: a soldier. In the lead up to the war and

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Speaker 1: the push for independence, often functioned as a diplomat. In

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Speaker 1: December of seventeen seventy six, he was dispatched to France

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Speaker 1: as Commissioner for the United States, which was, you know,

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Speaker 1: a diplomatic role. There he remained in France until seventeen

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Speaker 1: eighty five. Who's there for quite a while?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, nine years. He loved it there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and his long suffering wife was not too pleased,

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Speaker 1: but you know, agreed with him that he was doing

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Speaker 1: important stuff, you know what I mean. It's like the

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Speaker 1: most extreme version of I know, I'm staying late at

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Speaker 1: work tonight, hunt, but I'm making.

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Speaker 4: Moves in France.

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Speaker 1: In France, I'm making moves in France.

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Speaker 2: He was a bit of a heel though, wasn't he.

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Speaker 2: I mean he was he was a ladies man.

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Speaker 3: He probably wasn't the most faithful, doting husband that there

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Speaker 3: ever could be, right.

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Speaker 1: And that's good foreshadowing there Noel in France. He made

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Speaker 1: vital progress in garnering support for the US, even if

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Speaker 1: it's only because they really hated England, they really hated Britain.

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Speaker 1: He secured a critical military alliance at seventeen seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: He also negotiated the Treaty of Paris, And we cannot

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Speaker 1: emphasize this enough. Without French support, the Revolutionary War could

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Speaker 1: have had vastly different results.

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Speaker 4: I'd venture to say definitely would have different results without

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Speaker 4: the military might of France.

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Speaker 1: So what happens afterward.

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Speaker 4: So we discussed it. In seventeen eighty five, Franklin returns

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Speaker 4: to Philadelphia, That's when he left France. In seventeen eighty

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Speaker 4: seven he became a delegate to the Philadelphia Convention. And

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Speaker 4: this is this is one of those things that Benjamin Franklin,

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Speaker 4: because of his positions that he's held up to this point,

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Speaker 4: he gets this as kind of an honorary position. You,

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Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin, are appointed to the Philadelphia Convention.

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Speaker 1: Sort of like an emeritus position.

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Speaker 4: You know, Yeah, you've been around, you've done enough stuff,

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Speaker 4: you can be a.

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Speaker 2: Part of this.

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Speaker 1: And he was, you know, a living legend at this time, right,

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Speaker 1: And he also became a staunch abolitionist, eventually leading abolitionist

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Speaker 1: movements in Philadelphia. But it wasn't all trumpets and angel

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Speaker 1: farts and happy endings, because Franklin struggled with obesity and

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Speaker 1: gout throughout his middle age and especially his later years.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he was rarely seen in public after seventeen

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Speaker 1: eighty seven, sort.

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Speaker 2: Of a Marlon Brando kind of figure.

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Speaker 1: But without island of Doctor Moreau and more gout and

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Speaker 1: perhaps more couts. Yes, he died from what is known

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Speaker 1: as a pluretic attack. That's the inflammation of the membranes

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Speaker 1: or ploure that surround the lungs in line the chess

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Speaker 1: cavity at his home in Philadelphia on April seventeenth, seventeen,

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Speaker 1: age eighty four.

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Speaker 4: And today, Benjamin Franklin is remembered as the only founding

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Speaker 4: father who is a signatory of all four of the

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Speaker 4: major documents of the founding of the United States. We're

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Speaker 4: talking the Declaration of Independence, the Treaty of Alliance with France,

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Speaker 4: the Treaty of Paris, as well as the official United

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Speaker 4: States Constitution. That's a pretty big deal. You know.

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Speaker 1: The thing about the Constitution is, for something that gets

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Speaker 1: brought up so often in discourse today, I'm always surprised

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Speaker 1: by how few people have actually read it.

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Speaker 4: Is there a Constitution app? I feel like if somebody

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Speaker 4: puts out an official Constitution app, a lot more people

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Speaker 4: will read it. Or maybe a game.

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Speaker 1: If they gamify the Constitution. There are also a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of organizations that will send you a

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Speaker 1: free pocket constitution. You know, if you ever want to

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Speaker 1: look like an incredible nerd in front of your friends just.

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Speaker 4: At the bar, actually particle two.

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Speaker 3: Which you know, any listeners out there that have a

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Speaker 3: pocket constitution, we mean you no harm?

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Speaker 4: Oh, no, good on you. I think it's actually a

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Speaker 4: really cool thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have one. I just don't want to take

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Speaker 1: it out.

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Speaker 2: You know, whip it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I don't. I mean, hopefully I'm not ever going

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Speaker 1: to be in a situation where I have to take

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Speaker 1: out the Constitution and say, you know, pardon me, officer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the pen is my hero. Then the gun.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that'll end well.

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Speaker 2: But not only was he an incredible politician and statesmanough

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Speaker 2: I don't believe he ever officially held elected office, did he.

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Speaker 1: He did serve in a position was very much like

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Speaker 1: the governor of Philadelphia, but he was not, you know,

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Speaker 1: a senator.

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Speaker 3: Right, And I think a lot of people, because he's

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Speaker 3: on you know, the Big Bill, the hundred, the hundo,

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Speaker 3: people assume that he, you know, had some sort of

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Speaker 3: elected capacity.

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Speaker 1: Never president as we know, yea exactly, or vice president.

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Speaker 3: Hugely innovative, though an event a sort of a Willy

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Speaker 3: Wonka type figure, only you know, with functional stuff, not

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Speaker 3: just stuff that gives you diabetes.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he invented and improved a lot of things

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Speaker 4: that were massively important at the time and continue to

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Speaker 4: be in a way. Bifocals, being able to see up

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Speaker 4: close with your glasses as well as far away, depending

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Speaker 4: on how your eyes are functioning. The flexible catheter. Now

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Speaker 4: you may say to yourself, wow, these catheters that are

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Speaker 4: so flexible are terribly annoying and hurt and it stinks

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Speaker 4: using these catheters.

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Speaker 1: But just imagine if they were.

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Speaker 4: Glass or just stiff thing as they couldn't move. Nope,

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine it. Thank you, Ben Franklin. Again, as

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Speaker 4: a person who's never used a catheter besides on my dog,

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Speaker 4: that's a whole other story we can get into later. Also,

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Speaker 4: the glass harmonica. I'm not sure how important that one

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Speaker 4: truly is. I'm sure some music historian could explain and.

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Speaker 1: To us it has a booky story. Oh yeah, a

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Speaker 1: grizzly rumor about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The glass harmonica, which would be really interesting to you

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Speaker 1: guys as musicians if you've ever seen it. It's a

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Speaker 1: series essentially of nested glass bowls that rotate and such

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Speaker 1: that you can wet your finger and slide it across

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Speaker 1: you know, how you hear the sound when you slide

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Speaker 1: a finger around a rim of glass and it makes

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Speaker 1: that into a musical instrument. So it's got a noise

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Speaker 1: that would sometimes be described as eerie, sometimes as irritating.

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Speaker 1: But the weird part is then it fell out of

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Speaker 1: favor because, as you know, all glass can take well,

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of glass contained lead at the time,

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Speaker 1: and so there was this urban legend or this rumor

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Speaker 1: that using a glass harmonica would be very bad for

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Speaker 1: your health, could drive you crazy. Yeah, it could be

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Speaker 1: lead poisoning. So it well, it fell to the wayside.

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Speaker 1: But this guy, as as we had said, was so

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Speaker 1: prolific that, you know, you just got to accept, if

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Speaker 1: you're the Tony Stark of your time, that not everything

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Speaker 1: is going to be the Iron Man suit, you know,

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Speaker 1: not every invention.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he even had his own stove, the Franklin Stove YEP.

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Speaker 3: Which is sort of the portable cast eye. I say portable,

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Speaker 3: I mean just very heavy. But it's the kind of

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Speaker 3: like old timey cast iron stove that you think of

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Speaker 3: maybe being in a cabin that you're renting in the

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Speaker 3: mountains or something like that. It as a oven type

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Speaker 3: door where the fire would be and a stove pipe

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Speaker 3: on top to ventilate the smoke and it would heat.

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Speaker 2: It was basically like a space.

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Speaker 1: Heater and also known as the Pennsylvania Fireplace, which sounds

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Speaker 1: like euphemism or something. One thing that's I don't want

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Speaker 1: to speak for everybody. For me, it's personally admirable. This

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Speaker 1: this following note about Franklin's inventions. Of all the mentions

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Speaker 1: he made, and we just listed a few quickly, he

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Speaker 1: refused to patent a single one because his argument was

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Speaker 1: that he living in the time he lived, was already

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Speaker 1: benefiting from so many other inventions by earlier people, and

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Speaker 1: he felt it was only fair and just that he

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Speaker 1: provided the same benefits in turn. You know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 1: he's not giving somebody money every time he uses something

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Speaker 1: that has wheels, so why should he charge someone just

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Speaker 1: for wanting a catheter that is flexible.

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Speaker 4: I yeah, I completely agree with your thoughts, man. I

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Speaker 4: think that is extremely admirable. He went open source in

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Speaker 4: the seventeen hundreds.

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Speaker 3: I was about to say, like our Duena, the company

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Speaker 3: that makes those little microprocessors that you can use to

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Speaker 3: program robotics for using in like maker type competitions and stuff,

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Speaker 3: they open source all their stuff. You can get the

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Speaker 3: schematics for those, and there are third parties that improve

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Speaker 3: upon them or make different versions of them.

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Speaker 2: And that's par for the course. I think that's pretty cool,

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Speaker 2: forward thinking fellow that Benjamin Franklin.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's mirroring today's Tony Stark Ellen Musk who's

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Speaker 4: doing some of that same stuff with Tesla.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that's a very admirable thing. But there

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Speaker 1: are also quite a few strange aspects to the life

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Speaker 1: of Benjamin Franklin. There are myths, rumors, and legends about

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Speaker 1: this America's most eccentric founding father. We found some that

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Speaker 1: are amusing and some that are, you know, pretty out there.

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Speaker 1: A true story. He made up around two hundred terms

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Speaker 1: for getting wasted.

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Speaker 4: Wow, two hundred words for getting wasted. This is a

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Speaker 4: known thing. This is true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because why am I not?

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Speaker 4: Why am I only using like three of them?

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe because you don't have a copy of The

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Speaker 1: Drinker's Dictionary, published in seventeen thirty seven, with a list

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Speaker 1: of over two hundred alternative terms for drunkenness that Ben

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Speaker 1: Franklin had overheard in taverns over the years. In his

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Speaker 1: newspaper the Pennsylvania Gazette.

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Speaker 4: Ah phrases such as he's drank more than he has bled,

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Speaker 4: He's bungy bungy, he sees the bears pissed in the brook.

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Speaker 4: These are just the bees too loaded his cot Oh,

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Speaker 4: he is chapfallen, Chap.

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Speaker 3: Falling, He's biggie bewitched, block and block boozy, bousd been

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Speaker 3: at the Barbados.

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Speaker 1: At the Barbados. Yeah, these are great, you guys, maybe

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Speaker 1: we should take a take a page from his life

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Speaker 1: and start making up our own terms. Although I guess

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Speaker 1: we already do that on this show. Mister is right

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Speaker 1: in and let let us know which of those was

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Speaker 1: your favorite that we should use.

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Speaker 2: He's had a thump over the head with Samson's jawbone.

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Speaker 1: Yep, see, I feel like if somebody can say that

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Speaker 1: they're describing someone else who's drunk. If I were drunk

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Speaker 1: and I was trying to say I've had a thump

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Speaker 1: over the head with Samson's jawbone, I feel like I

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Speaker 1: would stumbling.

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Speaker 4: Though. You know that Benjamin Bowland he owes no man

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Speaker 4: a farthing.

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Speaker 3: And to go back to my characterization of him as

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Speaker 3: sort of a Willy Wonka esque figure.

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Speaker 2: He's wamble cropped.

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Speaker 1: Wamble crop wamble cropped is the winner for me. And

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Speaker 1: also when he wasn't, when he wasn't compiling these very

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Speaker 1: humorous things, he was, as as Matt Nole mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: a bit of a lothario, A bit of a ladies

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Speaker 1: man lothario right, a man who behaves selfishly and irresponsibly

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Speaker 1: in his sexual relationships with women, particularly so sort of

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Speaker 1: a don Juan.

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Speaker 4: And that's your new word for the day.

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Speaker 2: Is a pewey Herman style.

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Speaker 1: It will be now. So he was notorious for sleeping

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Speaker 1: around whenever the opportunity presented itself. He had a child

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Speaker 1: out of wedlock, and you know what, to his credit,

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Speaker 1: which was unusual at the time, he admitted to whomever

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Speaker 1: the mother was that it probably was his kid, and

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Speaker 1: he said he would take care of the kid. And

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Speaker 1: he never revealed the mom's identity.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: He also, as Noel pointed out, abandoned his wife for

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Speaker 1: years and lived the high high life of hedonism in France.

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Speaker 1: In his own correspondence, Benjamin Franklin laments his uncontrollable libido.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he was a sex addict, which one of the

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Speaker 4: first yep.

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Speaker 2: The next one was David d'covney.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and you know there are even tales of

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Speaker 4: him outright hitting on his friend's wives and is the

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Speaker 4: you know, the marriages of his friends, just just in

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Speaker 4: casual conversation with you know, the men present.

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Speaker 2: Like my, you are a saucy lass, all.

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Speaker 4: Right, dude, bend ben getting a bungy. Oh god, he's

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Speaker 4: eating a toad and a half for breakfast.

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Speaker 1: That's another one. So he had several, you know, views

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Speaker 1: we would consider eccentric, if not controversial today as well.

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Speaker 1: He was a huge proponent of air baths. That's where

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Speaker 1: you you just sit around naked regardless of the temperature.

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Speaker 2: He just hanged on.

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Speaker 1: He just hanged on.

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Speaker 4: That's all.

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Speaker 2: That's always sunny thing. I just love it. That's one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite expressions for being nude.

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Speaker 1: Never does he hanged on? Really, I remember that. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And he also we talked about this a little bit.

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Speaker 4: But they're reinventing of the alphabet, coming up with the

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Speaker 4: phonetic stuff. That's that's pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's right, Matt. He did he did attempt that.

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Speaker 1: It didn't catch on.

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Speaker 3: No, we're not here to talk about his drunken revelry

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Speaker 3: and inventing. Are we we're talking, We're here to talk

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Speaker 3: about some some darkness.

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Speaker 4: There is some darkness within this one.

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Speaker 1: And we'll explore it after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 4: There is a massive amount of conspiracies out there about

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Speaker 4: the Founding Fathers. They range all over the place. But

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Speaker 4: we really should just do Have we done a Founding

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Speaker 4: Father's conspiracies?

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Speaker 1: We think we have not yet. And that's something that

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Speaker 1: Paul brought up when we asked if we asked if

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Speaker 1: there was an episode that he thinks we should do

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Speaker 1: in the future.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, all right, Paul, Well, guess what. We're gonna

441
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 4: get to that one, and we're gonna start with this

442
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 4: one because there are several specific conspiracy theories surrounding mister

443
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin. And the first one is one that is

444
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 4: common to several other Founding Fathers, including mister George Washington,

445
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 4: was that Franklin was a member of the Freemasons, the

446
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 4: Illuminati of the Bavarian sort, or you know, some other

447
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 4: secret society. And here's the crazy thing. It's partially true.

448
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: It's true.

449
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like Matt said, Benjamin Franklin, like many Founding fathers,

450
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: was definitely a Freemason.

451
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: That's right.

452
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: In seventeen thirty one, Franklin joined the Masonic Lodge of

453
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: Saint John in Philadelphia. Then in thirty two he helped

454
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 3: create the bylaws of his lodge. Then two years later

455
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: he became a grand master. That same year, seventeen thirty four,

456
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 3: Franklin also published the first Masonic book printed in America

457
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 3: that was called The Constitutions of the Freemasons.

458
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 4: So it's very interesting to me because he's a fairly

459
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 4: young man. Well, I guess at the time, twenty something

460
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 4: isn't that young. But when he joined the lodge for

461
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 4: the first time and he grew in the ranks very

462
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 4: quickly and then started writing inside that world of freemasonry,

463
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 4: you know, and then just to get up there to

464
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 4: become the grand master of the Nine Sisters Lodge in Paris,

465
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 4: that's that's pretty big, right.

466
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

467
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: He remained an active member for over sixty years until

468
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: seventeen ninety when he passed away, and when he was

469
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: serving as America's diplomat to France. As Matt said, he

470
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: became a grand master. So what about the Illuminati we

471
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: have a series on the Illuminati. If you have not

472
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 1: heard it yet or watch the videos, we invite you

473
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: to check them out. The Illuminati historically will refer to

474
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: the Bavarian Illuminati as formed by a fellow named Adam

475
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: Wi Shopped in May of seventeen seventy six. Again, yeah,

476
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: I know, all right, right, this is the closest thing

477
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: there is to a quote unquote verified Illuminati, and they

478
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: would have been around on the continent while Franklin was

479
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: in Europe. But there's no solid proof that ben and

480
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: Adam came into direct contact. Now that does not mean

481
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: it didn't happen, and it is. It's true that Franklin's

482
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: philosophical viewpoint probably would have jibbed why Shop like they

483
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: would have been feeling it. Yeah, they would have hit

484
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: it off. It's more possible those still not proven, that

485
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: Franklin could have encountered ideas or concepts in Europe they

486
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: came from Bishop's group or inspired that group. But back

487
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: to the actual Illuminati membership thing. If Benjamin Franklin was

488
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: active in this regard, the guy probably would have talked

489
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: about it.

490
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 4: Why Well, that's because mister Benjamin Franklin, well, he was

491
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 4: in this other little secret society. It's one called espionage,

492
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 4: one where there are a lot of secrets. But here's

493
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: the problem. Ben wasn't very good at it.

494
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Benjamin Franklin was a shitty spy.

495
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I would venture to say it's because of

496
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: the lifestyle that he kept, that he was used to,

497
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 4: and there was a lot of revelry I'm assuming in

498
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 4: Franklin's life, in the truth serum that he would take

499
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: on his own I'm assuming didn't.

500
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: Help, right, right, I believe you're referring to alcohol.

501
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, So.

502
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: According to a CIA piece that was published internally and

503
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: later declassified called quote British Penetration of America's first diplomatic mission,

504
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin was just terrible at this. Like, he was

505
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: very good at making connections, very persuasive, and a brilliant thinker,

506
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: but not the most talented when it came to security.

507
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: One of his closest acquaintances blew up his spycraft operation

508
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: continually as he was sending clandestine cries for support to France.

509
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: The mole was a guy named Edward Bancroft, who who

510
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: knew Ben Franklin from the United States, was one of

511
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: his most trusted friends. Franklin trusted him so much he

512
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: made the guy his secretary at the US Commission to France,

513
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: which means Bancroft had access to everything. And furthermore, the

514
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: British Empire paid him one thousand pounds a year for

515
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: his assistance, which was nothing to sneeze at. No, that's

516
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: smack a donkey money. I don't know what that means.

517
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: Yep, I'm gonna steal that.

518
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: You've got smack a donkey money. So, as Commissioner of France,

519
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: Franklin was running all kinds of clandestine operations with Tacit.

520
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: French aid. They were at the very least turning, turning

521
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: their eyes away, but in most cases they were attempting

522
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: to help when they could. But what kind of stuff

523
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: were they doing.

524
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 4: We're talking about procuring weapons, all kinds of different supplies

525
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 4: for the war effort or the in preparation of war,

526
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 4: the money for the American Army, just straight up giving

527
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 4: money to the American Army. Sabotaging the Portsmouth Royal Navy dockyard.

528
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 4: Sabotage is a big thing. And if you know, you

529
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 4: can prove prove that there's money coming for in a

530
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 4: clandestine way to do something like that, it's not good

531
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 4: for your cause. And of course they negotiated a secret

532
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: treaty between the United States or America and France. But

533
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 4: here's the thing. While all that's going on, Britain pretty

534
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: much knew everything that was happening. Minute by minute. They're like, Okay,

535
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: this is about to happen. Okay, this is about to happen,

536
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: this is going down. Here's where this money is going.

537
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly. There was no OPSEEC or operational security.

538
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: The public had access to the estate. Sensitive papers, documents

539
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: were strewn everywhere. Apparently, secret conversations were held, sometimes as

540
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: loud arguments in public places.

541
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 4: Again, it's that sauce, it's that's us.

542
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the way our president takes meetings at

543
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 3: you know, this is his club, surrounded by diners.

544
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was controversial.

545
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: Leader.

546
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're talking about mar A Lago.

547
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 3: Meetings, right, Yes, yes, I'm saying like that doesn't doesn't

548
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: It seems historical president would would make that.

549
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: A teachable moment.

550
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: Oh, there you go.

551
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: There's one more macabb's story here. All right, so far

552
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: we have Freemasonry, true Illuminati, difficult to prove spi noaje spycraft. True,

553
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: but he was bad at it, like really bad at it.

554
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: But there's one more story here, one more conspiracy, and

555
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: it's macabre and it's grizzly and it's graphic. Forget the

556
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: idea of skeletons in the closet. What about bodies in

557
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: the basement.

558
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,239
Speaker 4: You're saying bodies in a basement that Benjamin Franklin like

559
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 4: of a home that Benjamin Franklin owned?

560
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: Was it a murder dungeon? So yeah, okay, so maybe not,

561
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: maybe not.

562
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 3: A full fledged murder dungeon, but definitely we'll start off

563
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: with a creepy house. So for almost twenty years leading

564
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: up to the signing of that fable Declaration of Independence,

565
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: Franklin lived in London at thirty six Craven Street.

566
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: He just has a talent for choosing terrible street names.

567
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: Just creepy street names. Cravens. I don't know why that

568
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 2: sounds creepy to me. Milk streets creepy too.

569
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 4: Thirty six Craven the street right off Milk Street.

570
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: Yes, wes crey Elm Street was one block over. So

571
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 3: in seventeen seventy six, as we mentioned earlier, he came

572
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: back to the States. Let's do a little fast forward

573
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: action to several centuries to nineteen ninety eight.

574
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: Why not that house was in quite horrible disrepair.

575
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: So there was like a preservation organization called the Friends

576
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: of Vegement Franklin House, who decided to make some innovations

577
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: to the four story townhouse. It was on the verge

578
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 3: of collapse, just total structural damage caused by time and inattention,

579
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: so extensive work had to be done.

580
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: It's like on the foundation, like you know, pulling out

581
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: the studs.

582
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: They had to do some repairs to make it safe

583
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: enough for construction crews to go back and do repairs.

584
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 4: And it's this historical thing, so you have to be

585
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 4: very careful about what you're preserving as you're doing this.

586
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: And by this time, this was the last structure around

587
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: in which Benjamin Franklin actually lived.

588
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so hugely important. It's this, it's this piece of history.

589
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: And can you imagine being there working on this team,

590
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 4: trying to make sure everything is functional so that you

591
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 4: can work on it, and then also you know, trying

592
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 4: to get the house to a place where you can

593
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 4: have people come in and use it as a museum

594
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: or something, and then you stumble upon this windowless secret

595
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 4: room below the house's garden.

596
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: There was a murder dungeon.

597
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this group, the friends of Benjamin Franklin house,

598
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: found this thing, and they discovered something in there. Fifteen

599
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: bodies in the basement.

600
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: Bet they weren't feeling so friendly then, were they would?

601
00:33:59,120 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 4: I would not be.

602
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: I imagine there might have been somebody in the group who said, look, technically,

603
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm a friend of Benjamin Franklin's house, not Benjamin Franklin.

604
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: Here's what they found. The room, or this pit was

605
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: about a meter wide and a meter deep. All in all,

606
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: there were over twelve hundred pieces of human bones hidden inside.

607
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: Experts believe five of the skeletons came from children. The

608
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: oldest skeleton was that of an elderly male, and the

609
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: youngest was a baby, like a not quite an infant.

610
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 4: Baby.

611
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: Bones were disturbed and damaged, showing limbs that have been

612
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: cut or completely hewn through. Some of the skulls showed

613
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: evidence of trepanation, which is a let's call it a

614
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: controversial medical procedure wherein the back base of the skull

615
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 1: is drilled to ostensibly well in hopes of relieving pressure

616
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: or you know, letting the demon imens. Yeah.

617
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And some of them even had the tops, the

618
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 4: entire top of the skull removed.

619
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. And these were not ancient skeletons from some

620
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: ill fated massacre of the past, you know, some ancient

621
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Roman army or invading force. These were contemporary roughly with Franklin,

622
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: meaning they most likely died and passed from the mortal

623
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: veil while he was alive.

624
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: So was this guy, Benjamin Franklin a serial killer?

625
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: We'll find out after a word from our sponsor. Really,

626
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: and we're back. For people with anti Masonic leanings, this

627
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: is often This discovery of bodies is often presented as

628
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: evidence that Franklin either condoned or participated in a series

629
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: of murders, because these take place over time. You know,

630
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: it's clearly on his property, and you know, people who

631
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: hate Freemasons would naturally jump to that conclusion. As morbidly

632
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: fascinating as this sounds, it's likely not true. I don't

633
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: know if that's a letdown to you guys, or if

634
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: it's a if it's a relief.

635
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: It certainly would make me judge him a little bit

636
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: just for not being very good at hiding bodies.

637
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: He's a smart man.

638
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: If he was really wanted to be a murderer, you

639
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 3: think he'd be more creative and not put them all

640
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 3: in one place.

641
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. He probably invents some sort

642
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: of machine.

643
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, or at least not put him in his

644
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 4: own house. I mean that alone is insane.

645
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: So sure, it is possible that Franklin was killing people

646
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: for one reason or another. But given his prolific confessional

647
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: nature in the way he loved to talk about himself

648
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: and what he was doing and what he thought, so

649
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: experts likely would have learned something more about this before

650
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: the discovery the nineteen ninety eight.

651
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 4: Especially given his pensiant for you know, eating a toad

652
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 4: and a half at breakfast time, and you know his

653
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 4: inability to keep his espionage under wraps.

654
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: Are you saying he ate the baby?

655
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 4: No, that that was another one that was the same.

656
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: You're still on the drinking expressions.

657
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 4: Because we we've we've already discussed and learned that he

658
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: couldn't keep uh things that are hugely important but not

659
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 4: as important as I am a murderer. He was unable

660
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 4: to keep his espionage actions under wraps. If he was

661
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 4: a murderer, you'd think something would slip out at some

662
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 4: point in one of these debaucherous nights, and maybe just no,

663
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 4: but maybe he did and nobody reported it, but because

664
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 4: of his stature and his power, But I highly doubt.

665
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: That, you know what, the only counterpoint we would have

666
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: for that is that he kept the secret of his

667
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: illegitimate son's identity. But that's the only thing we could

668
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: find that he really kept secret. And then also I

669
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: think so was total and a half a reference to

670
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: belching or something by somebody drinks a lot. Anyway, that's

671
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: a different episode, right, So, yeah, could he have kept

672
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: his secret? I don't know. I don't know. So where

673
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: did these bodies come from? If Benjamin Franklin is not

674
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: some sort of super elite evil James Bond spymaster serial killer.

675
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: Historians trace the bones to the activities of one of

676
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 3: Franklin's proteges, whose name was William Heuston.

677
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: And this man was known as the.

678
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 3: Father of hematology and was a pupil of the famous

679
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: anatomist William Hunter. But these two men had irreconcilable differences.

680
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: Houston appears to have started his own secret underground anatomy school,

681
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: because that's the thing that you do.

682
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: Sure, it's like fight club, but with corpses.

683
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And.

684
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 4: We're gonna yeah, and we're gonna get into like why

685
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 4: there would be all those bodies and you how you

686
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 4: could even do that, How you could start an amateur

687
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 4: school of anatomy.

688
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: And yours whoa whoa amateur?

689
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 3: I mean yes, But this guy Houston started this underground

690
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 3: school at his mother in law's house, a woman by

691
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 3: the name of Margaret Stevenson, which you know, if I

692
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 3: was his mother in law and I found out that

693
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 3: he was doing that, I might be a little miffed.

694
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: I might get awkward at Sunday supper.

695
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: And this is interesting because here's where the strings start

696
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: to connect. Stevenson was the landlord of the house on

697
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: Craven Street where Franklin lived for years and years. And

698
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: notice how Nol calls this an underground anatomy school. That's

699
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: because the school was most likely illegal, or at the

700
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: very very least in an incredibly gray area of the law.

701
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: And that leads us to the store worry of when Matt,

702
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: I know you love this story. It's the story of

703
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: resurrection men.

704
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah. So today, if you go to

705
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 4: your school bookstore and you're in college, you're gonna find

706
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 4: your anatomy text books and you're gonna see inside them

707
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 4: all sorts of super helpful information about how the human

708
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 4: body functions, what each tiny little bit can do, what

709
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: the cells do, the what your muscles and your bone

710
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 4: structure and everything, how your lungs function. Well, here's the thing.

711
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 4: People had to go into the human body to find

712
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 4: out how all of that stuff works and to make

713
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 4: the illustrations of the venus system going throughout your body

714
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 4: and your respiratory system. And for a long time, the

715
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 4: let's see, let's say, the practice or the knowledge of

716
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 4: anatomy was considered almost a dark art because of the

717
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 4: grizzly stuff you had to do to gain the knowledge.

718
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: The desecration of the dead, you know, one of the

719
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: oldest taboos in many cultures. So cadavers were so difficult

720
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 1: to legally obtain that anatomists, even well respected and promising

721
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: ones like Houston Hunter, had to resort to other means,

722
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: by which, yes, ladies and gentlemen, we mean grave robbing.

723
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: Sort of like Mary Shelley's character doctor Victor Frankenstein who

724
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 3: dug up bodies for scientific research and did horrible, terrible

725
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: things to them and reanimated them. This idea of the

726
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 3: resurrection man, it's sort of an interesting hyperbole because they're

727
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 3: being dug up, but they are in fact still dead,

728
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: and that's a very important part of this kind of experimentation.

729
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: It's this behavior is not moral per se, certainly more

730
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 3: moral than doing it on somebody who's alive, right, killing

731
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 3: somebody for the purposes of doing these things.

732
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: Right, vivisection, right, So it's still not as bad as

733
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: vivia section. But people were strongly against those very controversial

734
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: So these anatomists would have to go digging for graves themselves,

735
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: or they could hire shadowy individuals known as resurrection men,

736
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: which is a little bit of false advertising, because they

737
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: were just digging them up. They were not, as we said,

738
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: bringing them back to life.

739
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 4: Well, they were giving them new life in the form

740
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 4: of a textbook. They became a textbook.

741
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: That's saying they made the textbooks out of the bodies.

742
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 4: No, I'm saying they gave new life to these bodies

743
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 4: by turning them into knowledge.

744
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: By immortalizing them. In the field of medicine, that's the

745
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: Henrietta Lax argument, isn't it?

746
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 4: Yes, it is so.

747
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 1: Thirty six Craven Street, it turns out, was a fantastic

748
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: location for an illegal anatomy school. Resurrection men could deliver

749
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: bodies stolen from graveyards to the times wharf at the

750
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: bottom of the street, very close to the house, or

751
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: there was a weekly public execution at the gallows that

752
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: was on the other side of the garden wall. Jeez,

753
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: just you know, hey, toss them over this way and

754
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 1: to avoid scrutiny. To go back to that question about

755
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: why they didn't dispose of the bodies in a better way.

756
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: To avoid scrutiny, Houston would just discard the bodies on

757
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: the property when he was done. No need in his mind,

758
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: apparently to rebury them in original or respectful graves.

759
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 2: I have a question.

760
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: We were talking about how this was in a gray area,

761
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 3: all of this, and how it was difficult to legally

762
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 3: obtain corpses to work on. Was there statute at the

763
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: time that expressly prohibited this kind of behavior, like were

764
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 3: bodies buried protected? Were there certain cemeteries that had certain laws?

765
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 3: Would you be more likely to be able to get

766
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: a good one in like a less prestigious cemetery. Like

767
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 3: I was wondering, was this a universal thing or was

768
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 3: it sort of a case by case base.

769
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a good question. There was inequality even

770
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: in death. A lot of cemeteries were separated along religious line,

771
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: so you know there would be a Jewish cemetary separate

772
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: from say a Catholic or Protestant cemetary. The one of

773
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: the things that was fascinating is course of our research

774
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: we found a mental floss a Mental Floss article that

775
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: said originally it was illegal. It was for all intents

776
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: and purposes illegal to take a body. But there wasn't

777
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: a statute there was. It was more like a very

778
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: complex series of hoops you would have to jump through

779
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: to legally procure a body for dissection. And that's why

780
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: these anatomy classes and diction exhibitions were so crowded all

781
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: the time. So you think about every historical film we

782
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: see where there's the really steep angled circular room, it's like.

783
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: It's literally like a theater. It's probably where the term

784
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 3: operating theater came from, right.

785
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: Who could call? I bet you're right. So it was

786
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: it was much much, much faster and less expensive too, unfortunately,

787
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 1: steal the bodies of the poor and the disadvantaged.

788
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and for the people who were advantaged and wealthy.

789
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,479
Speaker 4: There was technology that was coming out that you could

790
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 4: set up essentially traps around your gravesite and with your

791
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 4: coffin that would shoot projectiles out at people that tried

792
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 4: to open your coffin. There was all kinds of you know,

793
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's in practice. Yeah, in practice, it

794
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 4: doesn't look as awesome as it sounds. It would be

795
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 4: essentially like a bolt of like if you had a

796
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 4: crossbow or something that would fire out.

797
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: Like a booby trap in an ancient tomb or something.

798
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

799
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 1: So that's why resurrection men travel in groups.

800
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 4: That makes a lot of sense.

801
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: Well that's a rough, rough industry to intern in, isn't it. Oh,

802
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: Because if you die trying to rob the grave.

803
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 4: Then you just become the product.

804
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, Oh that's spooky. Well, the good news

805
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: is that it turns out Benjamin Franklin most likely was

806
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: not some sort of bloodthirsty original version of the American Psycho.

807
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: The same year he left to return to America, heuston

808
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 1: the anatomist accidentally cut himself while dissecting a rotting corpse

809
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: and died of infection. Or did Benjamin Franklin.

810
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 4: Find him in the basement with some bodies and Benjamin

811
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 4: Franklin himself put a stop to it, and then he

812
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 4: became He became Benjamin Franklin, the serial killer hunter.

813
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I would watch it.

814
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: You're saying you don't think Ben Franklin like co signed

815
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 2: on this.

816
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: I think he had to to a degree because he

817
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: was living in the same house. And it's as difficult

818
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: as it is for us to say that he would

819
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: be a serial killer, I would argue it's equally difficult

820
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: to say that he was somehow completely clueless.

821
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the spell alone, there we go. Yeah, you'd

822
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 2: know something was up, something was rotten in the cellar.

823
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: Who are these strange men stopping by the house with

824
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: corpse sized bags? You know? I just for a fellow,

825
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: who is that clever and that intelligent. I have a

826
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: hard time believing that this wouldn't occur to him. But

827
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: there ends our examination today of the dark side of

828
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: one of America's most eccentric founding fathers. But not our show.

829
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: We will return very soon, and we'd like you to

830
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 1: tune in as we delve into a strange question. Could

831
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: a thought be alive?

832
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: A thought like a T H O T.

833
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: Add a couple more letters and you'll get there.

834
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:49,879
Speaker 2: Got it like a thinky brain thought?

835
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 4: Not that thought over there, that that train over there.

836
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: There we go. In the meantime, you can find us

837
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: on the internet. We're all over the place.

838
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, you can find myself, Noel, Ben and Paul

839
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 4: on stuff they don't want you to know. Dot Com.

840
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 4: That's our website. You can find every episode we've ever

841
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 4: produced there. You can even find videos. There's all kinds

842
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 4: of stuff. It's a treasure trove. If you don't want

843
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 4: to do that, you can go to Twitter. You can

844
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 4: tweet at us. We are Conspiracy Stuff. Also on Facebook

845
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 4: Conspiracy Stuff, and on Instagram we're Conspiracy Stuff show.

846
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: And do check out our new Facebook community page. Here's

847
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. This is where you can learn

848
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: firsthand what your fellow listeners are thinking about and hint, hint,

849
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: wink wink, nudge nudge cough cough, maybe get some insight

850
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: into upcoming episodes before they hit the airwaves.

851
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 4: That's right, and we'll also be mining that sucker for

852
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 4: any and all ideas you've got, so throw them in there,

853
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 4: and we're listening and watching, and that's the end of

854
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 4: this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions

855
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 4: about this episode, you can get into content with us

856
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 4: in a number of different ways. One of the best

857
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 4: is to give us a call. Our number is one

858
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,960
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859
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 4: to do that, you can send us a good old

860
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 4: fashioned email.

861
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,080
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862
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,320
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863
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,960
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864
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,920
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