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Speaker 1: Warning.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for Pluribus episode oneh eight.

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Speaker 3: Be warned.

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Speaker 2: Oh it is Jason Concepcion and I'm by myself.

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Speaker 3: That's because Rosie is not feeling today.

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Speaker 2: Get well soon, Rosie, She'll be fun. That's just under

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Speaker 2: the weather today. And our super producer, Ian, who is

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Speaker 2: our other Pluribus expert, is currently under active cyber attack,

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Speaker 2: possibly by an enemy nation state. That's Carmen's theory. Cannot

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Speaker 2: connect to the Internet and we've all been there, haven't we.

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Speaker 2: So welcome back the x ray vision of the podcast,

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Speaker 2: where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics

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Speaker 2: of pop culture from my Heart. We're'll bring you three

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Speaker 2: episodes a week, plus neis on Saturday. Before we jump

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Speaker 2: in a quick product note. This holiday season, we'll be

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Speaker 2: shouting a couple of short stopping Steppa episodes. With so

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Speaker 2: many great shows and movies coming out this next few months,

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Speaker 2: these episodes will help us cover some extra content we

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to get on our normal episode, so

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Speaker 2: keep an eye out for those. But first, I'm not

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Speaker 2: to solo this purvious episode. Episode eight of season one.

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Speaker 2: We open with what I think is going to be

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Speaker 2: a important, very short detail that we see in this

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Speaker 2: cold open of this episode, which is Manusos, who recently

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Speaker 2: impaled himself on a spiny tree in the Darien Gap

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Speaker 2: and is now clearly suffering from a very serious bacterial infection,

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Speaker 2: among other things, dehydration, et cetera. Is in the hospital

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Speaker 2: and we see his blood dripping on the floor. I

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Speaker 2: think you've heard us talk about the ian stem cell theory.

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Speaker 2: I think the hive mind is going to collect this

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Speaker 2: blood and be able and other material as we've talked

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Speaker 2: about in our previous Curvous episode, and I think they're

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Speaker 2: going to be able to reverse DNA engineer the infection.

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Speaker 2: Wait and see. His surgeon greets him and is like, hey,

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Speaker 2: how you doing? You passed out? Do you remember anything about?

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Speaker 2: Like why you're here?

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Speaker 3: Good news.

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Speaker 2: You've got a very serious infection, but it's responding well

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Speaker 2: to the antibacterials, and you're in bad shape, but.

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Speaker 3: We got you on the mend. Just hank tight.

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Speaker 2: You got to rest, don't worry about it. Well, Menusless

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Speaker 2: is in no state of mind to rest. He pops up,

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Speaker 2: grabs a scalpel, presses it to the surgeon's throat and

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Speaker 2: is like, I demand to pay for my medical care.

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Speaker 3: All the hive mind is like no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: it's on us. Like really, we love to do this.

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Speaker 2: Ask Carol about it, Ask any of the other survivors.

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Speaker 2: We love to just you know, be here to serve.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, no, absolutely not, Like I'm paying for

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Speaker 2: this shit. There were real people before you guys got here.

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Speaker 2: You guys are not real people. I'm not stealing goods

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Speaker 2: and services from the real people who you are currently

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Speaker 2: holding in your hive mind prison. So the hive mind

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Speaker 2: are like, okay, so it's like eight thousand and changed, basically,

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Speaker 2: can we write your receipt? And he's like yeah, great.

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Speaker 2: He also learns that he's in Panama. In other words,

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Speaker 2: he's made it to the other side of the Darien

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Speaker 2: Gap and can basically drive all the way up to Albertquerque,

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Speaker 2: New Mexico to meet Carol. Carol is at home hosting Zosia.

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Speaker 2: She's very nervous. It's quite it's quite charming, it's quite cute.

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Speaker 2: She makes some lemonade. Zosha compliments the the authentic Georgia

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Speaker 2: o'kee on the wall, and Carol tries to be like, oh, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know I'm just keeping it here, you know, for

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Speaker 2: safe keeping, and I'm thinking about collecting other art because

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Speaker 2: of She goes on to say, like wild animal attacks

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Speaker 2: could be the reason, like that she's gonna collect priceless art.

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Speaker 2: But Zosha's like, yeah, don't worry about it, you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't care about that. I think it looks great here.

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Speaker 2: And then there's like an awkward silence because Carol, you know,

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Speaker 2: is still feeling things out. I think it's clearly developing

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Speaker 2: feelings for Zosha, but doesn't know how to grapple with

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Speaker 2: the reality of that. So Zosha suggests a board game,

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Speaker 2: which clearly she knows Carol loves board games. But they

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Speaker 2: come up against the problem, or at least Carol does,

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Speaker 2: which is, how do you play a game, a game

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Speaker 2: of strategy against all of the smartest people currently in

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Speaker 2: the world, which the hive mine are. You can't play

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Speaker 2: chess because the hive mind is like, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't know how many great masters there are in the world,

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Speaker 2: but they're all of them, and et cetera, and so on.

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Speaker 2: Risk is going to be difficult. And I think this

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Speaker 2: is a really interesting metaphor actually for the for the

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Speaker 2: challenge that Carol and Manuso's face in trying to rest

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Speaker 2: the world back from the Hive mind, if indeed they

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Speaker 2: want to do that, because they are up against the

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Speaker 2: greatest living human strategists. So they end up playing spit,

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Speaker 2: which is a card game kind of akin to war

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Speaker 2: that I used to play as a kid, and now

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Speaker 2: I can't remember how it's played at all, but it's

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Speaker 2: going kind of, you know, it's back and forth game.

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Speaker 2: Sosha ask Carol, just kind of making small talk, Hey,

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Speaker 2: would you want to see your cousin. Your cousin's part

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Speaker 2: of us, you know, and you haven't seen him in

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Speaker 2: a while. And Carol's like, no, you know, if he

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Speaker 2: didn't ever come to see me before this.

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Speaker 4: Why would I want that to happen now?

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Speaker 2: And they're having a lot of fun playing this game.

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Speaker 2: Carol learns that all the people in Albuquerque will be

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Speaker 2: back soon. They they're you know, currently coming back in

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Speaker 2: waves and they'll be back in you know, like twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours or something like that. And she also puts

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Speaker 2: in a request, is oh to powerwash the white letters

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Speaker 2: off of her street, and it's again, it's very awkward.

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Speaker 2: It's clearly there's a feeling out process here where Carol is,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's cute in a way. Zosha tells

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Speaker 2: Carol that, you know, everything is community space now. It's

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Speaker 2: basically like the best version of the most idealistic version

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Speaker 2: of communism that like Marx and Angles like absolutely dreamed

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Speaker 2: about when they were in the throes of imagination. Everybody

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Speaker 2: sleeps in the same few locations in order to you know,

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Speaker 2: make everything energy efficient and such. Zosha takes them to

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Speaker 2: the local sports arena, where Carol sees, you know, a

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Speaker 2: bunch of people's sleeping on the arena floor, all kind

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Speaker 2: of cuddling together, setting up their blankets. It's all very actually,

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Speaker 2: all very nice. There's a dog there. Zosia tells Carol

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Speaker 2: that they don't control the dogs, but when the dogs

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Speaker 2: a lot of times will stay bonded to the form

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Speaker 2: of their former owner, and then the hive mind takes

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Speaker 2: care of them, which is all very sweet. So Sha

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Speaker 2: asks Carol if she would like to stay overnight at

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Speaker 2: the sports arena. Carol is like, no, I think I'm good,

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Speaker 2: but then she does end up spending the night. She

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Speaker 2: kind of just dozes off in the warmth and acceptance

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Speaker 2: of the hive mind. Cuddling with Zoshia, and it's clear

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Speaker 2: that Carol is beginning to see different perspectives on the

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Speaker 2: Hive mind situation. Yes, it's troubling on many levels, like

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Speaker 2: this is an alien invasion, full stop. They're eating people

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Speaker 2: like soil it green, full stop. That's really bad. But

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Speaker 2: there is something about the warmth, the acceptance, and like

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Speaker 2: the overall community that she's seeing that adds a different

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Speaker 2: dimension to this experience.

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Speaker 4: In Carol is.

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Speaker 2: Clearly trying to process all of that, and she goes

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Speaker 2: home by herself, opens up her whiteboard, stares for a

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Speaker 2: long time at the outline of her latest waikaro novel,

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Speaker 2: which you know she may or may not start, but

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Speaker 2: then eventually moves the whiteboard aside and writes on her

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Speaker 2: list of Hive Mind facts. They eat people underline, underline, underline,

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Speaker 2: as if to remind herself, like, yes, this is I

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Speaker 2: can see, I can see a different side of it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I'm developing feelings for Zosia. Yes, like peace and the

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Speaker 2: lack of any kind of strife is actually quite nice

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Speaker 2: to see.

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Speaker 3: They eat people.

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Speaker 4: Later, Zosha and Carol.

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Speaker 2: Go hiking, and Zosha is just like drinking up every

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Speaker 2: fact about Carol that Carol shares, and Carol they see

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Speaker 2: a train, you know, moving in the distance at the

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Speaker 2: at the bottom of the valley there it's an incredible vista.

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Speaker 2: And Carol's like, oh, you know, I love trains, and Zosha's.

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Speaker 3: Like, what, tell me, tell me more about this?

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Speaker 2: What And Carol's like, oh, do you don't know about

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Speaker 2: Like I must have told someone at some point during

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Speaker 2: my life that I love trains?

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Speaker 4: Did I not do that?

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Speaker 2: And Zosha in the hive mind don't know this fact,

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Speaker 2: And they're clearly there's this one interesting thing where they're

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Speaker 2: they know everything right, they have the totality of human experience,

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Speaker 2: but they can't really develop any new experiences or new perspectives,

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Speaker 2: and they're clearly hungry for it. Like when Carol begins

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Speaker 2: to share that, Zosha is like wrapped and and loves

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Speaker 2: hearing about this, and Carol basically says, like, part of

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Speaker 2: it is because the horn of a train, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the distance is the loneliest sound in the world,

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Speaker 2: and something about that resonates with her.

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Speaker 3: And then a.

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Speaker 2: Second later, the train in the distance sounds its horn

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Speaker 2: and Carol asks, okay, so like how do you do that?

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Speaker 2: Like how does the hive mind? How are you all connected?

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Speaker 4: Like what is it?

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Speaker 2: And Zosha's basically like, it's kind of like electromagnetic waves

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Speaker 2: that the human body gives off and receives but that

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Speaker 2: you don't know how to access right now, but like

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Speaker 2: the infection has allowed us to access it, so they

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Speaker 2: kind of share this wavelength. They then go to get

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Speaker 2: massages and Carol is like, how do you experience this massage?

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Speaker 2: Because it's like you're giving it, but you're also receiving it,

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Speaker 2: and you're giving it to me, but you're receiving it too.

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Speaker 2: And Zosha tries to kind of explain what it's like

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Speaker 2: to be the hive mind and know at that very moment,

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Speaker 2: like how many people were just born and how many

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Speaker 2: people have died, and she she's like, there's this guy,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I forget where it was, like Bulgaria

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Speaker 2: or something, who just was impaled. He'll be fine. But

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Speaker 2: like all of this like granular understanding of the outer

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Speaker 2: reaches of the hive mind, as if like they were

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Speaker 2: fingers and toes on a single body, really freaks Carol out.

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Speaker 4: So Zosha kind of sensing that brings it back.

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Speaker 2: To the massage, like but basically like the massage feels

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Speaker 2: really really good, feels great. Later, Zosha shows Carol where

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Speaker 2: the message, the alien invasion message originally came from, and

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Speaker 2: she tells her that they think, because again they don't know,

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Speaker 2: they have not received any actual information from the hive

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Speaker 2: mind message, it's just activated them.

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Speaker 4: As a hive mind.

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Speaker 2: They think that the original planet where the single came

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Speaker 2: from is like one huge ocean. So they all live

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Speaker 2: together in like this huge ocean. And Carol finally manages

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Speaker 2: to dial in the planet. It's Kepler twenty two B.

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Speaker 2: And the hive mind we learn on this planet are

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Speaker 2: so and this is what we were, right, folks, so

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Speaker 2: taken by the message and so thankful and grateful for

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Speaker 2: the unity and love and acceptance that it is given

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Speaker 2: them access to that they are they want to pass

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Speaker 2: it along. In Zosia's words, they are driven clearly to

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Speaker 2: at some point muster the world's resources to build and

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Speaker 2: other continent size antenna and spread the message. That's what

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Speaker 2: they want to do. Carol is a little chilled by that, clearly.

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Speaker 2: She then asks for more pens from Zosia, and so

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Speaker 2: she's like, oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Because you're writing, we can't wait, like a new way, Cara,

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Speaker 3: that would be amazing.

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Speaker 2: Carol lies and says, yeah, yeah, yeah, a new wi

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Speaker 2: Caral for sure, you know, Carol, And she again she

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Speaker 2: does spend a lot of time looking at the white

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Speaker 2: Carol board, but then she goes directly to her save

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Speaker 2: the world from the hive mind board to write stuff. Later,

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Speaker 2: Carol and Zosha played croquet and Zosha is absolutely fucking

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Speaker 2: crushing Carol because she is every croquet world champion that

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Speaker 2: was alive at the time of the invasion. She talks

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Speaker 2: a little bit of trash to Carol, which I found

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Speaker 2: quite charming, and I think Carol did as well. Zosha

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Speaker 2: asks Carol what was your best writing day?

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Speaker 3: Like, like what was that like?

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Speaker 1: And why?

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Speaker 2: And then Carol's like, I don't know, it's hard to explain,

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Speaker 2: and you know, do you really want to know about this?

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Speaker 2: And then Zosha's like, I have some place to take you.

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Speaker 2: It takes her to a diner that had been closed

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Speaker 2: for years but is now back in business and just

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Speaker 2: the way that Carol remembered it. And this is the

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Speaker 2: place where Carol began her writing journey, trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out how to write while having a day job. And

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Speaker 2: you know, spending all her days at work and then

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Speaker 2: finding a place to write. And this diner was a

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Speaker 2: lot about that place. And she talks about that, the

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Speaker 2: hive minds eating it up. And then she looks up

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Speaker 2: and she's like, yeah, because she's talking about this waitress

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Speaker 2: that she remembered, who is so kind and like, without

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Speaker 2: knowing it helped her on her journey. And she looks

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Speaker 2: up and that there's the waitress. And then she's like, wait,

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Speaker 2: holy shit, that's the waitress. And this place burned down,

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Speaker 2: didn't it. You You built it from scratch, did you not?

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Speaker 2: And Zosha's like, yeah, we built it from scratch. And

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Speaker 2: Carol's like, God, I miss those days. But the more

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Speaker 2: she thinks about it, and the more she thinks about

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Speaker 2: this incredible expenditure of resources that they put into creating

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Speaker 2: this experience and bringing back the original waitress, Carol becomes

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Speaker 2: disturbed and she immediately she just like leaves with Soosha's

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Speaker 2: very confused. The hive mind is like what happened. Sosha

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Speaker 2: comes to see Carol at her house and Carol is

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Speaker 2: drinking and she's clearly in a weird mood, and she

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Speaker 2: wants Zosha to use I as a pronoun, not we,

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Speaker 2: and Zosha really has trouble with that, like that's a

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Speaker 2: hard thing for the hive mind to grapple with. And

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Speaker 2: then Carol begins to interrogate social about the waitress. Where

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Speaker 2: was she before all this? What was her life like

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Speaker 2: before the invasion? Where was she living when you made

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Speaker 2: her come all the way to Albuquerque and do this.

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Speaker 2: Zosha doesn't deny that there's a weirdness to this, and

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Speaker 2: there's a question of agency and all of this, and

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Speaker 2: there's a kind of like chess master moving people around

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Speaker 2: as pieces kind of aspect to this, and she doesn't

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Speaker 2: deny Carol's charge that actually, you're trying to distract me

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Speaker 2: from my mission to stop this infection, to roll it back,

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Speaker 2: aren't you, Like that's really what you want to do.

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Speaker 2: You're presenting me with all of these nostalgic things that

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Speaker 2: make me think of writing, because you want me to

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Speaker 2: write a new waikaru and not save the world. And

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Speaker 2: Zosha's basically like, yeah, but also like a lot of

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Speaker 2: the many people that are part of us love why

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Speaker 2: Kara and they can't wait for a new wayikaro. Carol

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Speaker 2: basically says listen, I'm never going to give up trying

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Speaker 2: to save the world. Okay, are you okay with that?

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Speaker 2: Zosh and Zosha answers by going in for a kiss,

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Speaker 2: which is like super weird, big big gamble on the

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Speaker 2: Hive Mind's part, but it works and they get together physically,

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Speaker 2: there's a physical joining. Later, the Hive Mind wakes up

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Speaker 2: to find Carol printing stuff out in her office, writing

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Speaker 2: and printing stuff out, and Carol asks Oosha to read

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Speaker 2: chapter one of the New Wayko and it's ten minutes

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Speaker 2: while Carol is waiting for Zosha to finish it. But

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Speaker 2: then Zosha comes down and she's like, I'm blown away

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Speaker 2: by this.

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Speaker 3: Raban is a woman. Now, oh my god, this makes

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Speaker 3: so much sense.

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Speaker 2: And then they have like such a nerdy and fun

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Speaker 2: conversation about, well, how are you going to do it?

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Speaker 2: Are you just gonna retck on it where it's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, rebooting the series, and Carol insists and this

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Speaker 2: is so good that no, like, actually, I can do

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Speaker 2: it canonically, I can do it in world using this

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Speaker 2: and that mechanism, and they and they're both nerding out

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Speaker 2: about the way it could work and how it could

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Speaker 2: actually happen.

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Speaker 4: And make sense.

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Speaker 2: Carol then ask Zosha in the singular, like you as

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Speaker 2: the person you as Zosha, what did you what did

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Speaker 2: you like to do?

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Speaker 3: Like, what were your likes and dislikes? What was what

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Speaker 3: were your favorite things?

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Speaker 2: And Zosha again kind of like stumbles on the Wei

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Speaker 2: versus I, but she manages to share that she loved

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Speaker 2: mango ice cream and that there was a guy in

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Speaker 2: her city that sold it, and that when she was

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Speaker 2: a kid, she would go up to the hill overlooking

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Speaker 2: the harbor and she would watch all these ships coming

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Speaker 2: in and out, and she was like fascinated with the ships,

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Speaker 2: like and fascinated with the idea of who built them

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Speaker 2: and where are they going and who lives on them,

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Speaker 2: and where are all these places where they're coming to

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Speaker 2: and going from. And it's a really beautiful and very

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Speaker 2: human kind of remembrance. And in the middle of that

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Speaker 2: she freezes, and Carol's like, what's wrong, And then Zosha's like,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna have a visitor. And we know now that

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Speaker 2: Manusos is coming and we see him crossing the border.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and be back with super

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Speaker 2: producer Ian, who has figured out his Internet let's talk

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Speaker 2: about this episode that I think is one of the

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Speaker 2: best of the season and just incredible.

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Speaker 4: I mean the turn.

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Speaker 2: I think what I most appreciate about it is you

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Speaker 2: so vividly understand what Carol is struggling with. It's like

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Speaker 2: the loneliness, the depression, the sadness, it's too much. She

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Speaker 2: hasn't she's fully cognizant that what's going on with the

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Speaker 2: Hive Mind is bad, but she's also seeing new perspectives

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Speaker 2: on it that haven't fully convinced her that it's worth

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Speaker 2: just forgetting about it and going with the flow.

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Speaker 4: But right, there's different levels to it.

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Speaker 2: Now, there's this kind of clear warmth and community of

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Speaker 2: the Hive Mind, even if it's clearly marshaling itself toward

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Speaker 2: the goal of building some other huge antenna, right and

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Speaker 2: infecting another world, But there's like a warmth to it,

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Speaker 2: there's a community to it. There's the lack of violence,

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Speaker 2: the lack of you know, any kind of class race strife.

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Speaker 2: All the wars have stopped, and Soosha's really cool and charming,

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Speaker 2: Like there is that aspect to it, and it's the

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Speaker 2: episode does such a great job of bringing you along

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Speaker 2: and making you feel like, Okay, this is fucked up,

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Speaker 2: but also like let's just yeah, why not like rest

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Speaker 2: and just gather your thoughts in this kind of feeling

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Speaker 2: for a while. And that's contrasted with the figure Who's coming,

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Speaker 2: and I feel.

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Speaker 1: Like the blooming threat of Manuso's and.

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Speaker 2: I feel very, very concerned that Manuso's is coming and

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Speaker 2: he's gonna kill Zosha. I yes, feel like that's where

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Speaker 2: it's going. What are your thoughts about this episode.

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Speaker 5: I love the episode for a lot of the reasons

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Speaker 5: you laid out, and I think, yeah, that seeing that

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Speaker 5: conflict brew within Carol throughout the whole episode is just

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Speaker 5: so fascinating and like super relatable, and like, I think

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Speaker 5: if I was in a similar situation, I would probably

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Speaker 5: be battling with a lot of the same feelings, you know.

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Speaker 5: I thought it was interesting because when the episode started,

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Speaker 5: I was like, Oh, maybe she really is kind of

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Speaker 5: coming around, you know, and is kind of embracing the

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Speaker 5: positives of the situation that she found herself in. You know,

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Speaker 5: she realizes she doesn't want to be alone, she doesn't

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Speaker 5: want to be isolated like that. But then as the

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Speaker 5: episode progressed, I was like, oh, Okay, No, she's like

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Speaker 5: hitting them with like a little bit of a reverse

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Speaker 5: Uno card. You know, she's actually just doing this to

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Speaker 5: serve her ultimate goal of still trying to stop them.

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Speaker 4: I agree.

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Speaker 2: And it's also like she is doing that because clearly

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Speaker 2: she's going back and she's you know, writing all the stuff,

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Speaker 2: the new intel that she's learned. You know that they're

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Speaker 2: bent on spreading the infection that you know, the underlining

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Speaker 2: of the fact that they eat people, as in as

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Speaker 2: if to say like, don't forget don't forget about that all,

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Speaker 2: don't forget about this. Right At the same time, you

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Speaker 2: get the sense that the hive mind, I mean, they're

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Speaker 2: not just like the greatest chess players, the greatest croquet players,

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Speaker 2: they are the most charming people.

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Speaker 1: Right. They rizzed her up in this episode. It was crazy,

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Speaker 1: and there.

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Speaker 2: Is there is this there is this like charming transparency

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Speaker 2: to them where they're like, listen, you know, are we

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Speaker 2: trying to disharpt you, Yes, but also.

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Speaker 3: We love Woycaro and like.

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Speaker 2: This is like we're loving this, you know, like the

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Speaker 2: way they are hanging on every word when she's talking

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Speaker 2: about the trains, and you know that sense that the

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Speaker 2: Hive mind. Though they have all the experiences that humanity

385
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Speaker 2: can offer, they can't really generate new ones, right, They

386
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: can't generate other new perspectives, and so they were so

387
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 2: hungry for this new perspective from Carol. That was I

388
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Speaker 2: think that that is there's something intoxicating about that. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that Carol is going to forge get

390
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Speaker 2: about her mission, but there is also the sense that

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Speaker 2: maybe it's working a little bit, like they can slow

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Speaker 2: her down for sure.

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Speaker 5: So when I was watching that scene, what I read was,

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Speaker 5: you know, obviously, when Carol explicitly calls out like you're

395
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Speaker 5: trying to distract me from my mission, Zosha goes in

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Speaker 5: for the kiss, and I'm like, oh shit, it's like

397
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 5: low key working. And then all of a sudden she's

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Speaker 5: inspired to start writing again. But then after I've sat

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Speaker 5: with the episode for a little bit, I was like,

400
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Speaker 5: what she genuinely inspired to start writing in from that moment?

401
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Speaker 5: Or is this again Carol trying to play for d

402
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 5: Chess and his in turn trying to distract the Hive

403
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Speaker 5: mind again by giving them this new book to put

404
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 5: focus their attention on, you know, because I think maybe

405
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Speaker 5: that's what Carol is doing is she's trying to like

406
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Speaker 5: one up them with an even bigger distraction.

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Speaker 4: I think you're right. I think you're right.

408
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Speaker 2: I think she's playing the game for them, playing the

409
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: game back at them and saying, yes, yeah, it's working,

410
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: it's working. I also think that, like human nature tells

411
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: me that people can one of the most amazing things,

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00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: like I feel like people can do is rationalize what

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00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: they're doing to make it so actually I meant to

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00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: do this. I think that there's a world in which

415
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: Carol gets so wrapped up in the writing that the

416
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: Hive Mind actually succeeds. I mean that kiss huge gamble, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think that there's a world in which you

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00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: can imagine Carol being actually.

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Speaker 1: Disgusted, Oh for sure.

420
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Speaker 4: But I think it's a.

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Speaker 3: Measure of how cunning and.

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Speaker 2: Good the Hive Mind are at their Ris game that

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00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: they took the gamble, probably with the idea that like

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Speaker 2: this is.

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Speaker 4: Actually going to work.

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Speaker 2: And it also made me think that maybe they're buying

427
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: time for your theory to start doing something with the

428
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Speaker 2: stem cells from the eggs.

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Speaker 4: Like I was, I found the.

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Speaker 2: Cold open of this episode it felt very important to

431
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: me seeing that blood Menusus's blood hit the floor because

432
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, that bloo. I think they're going to

433
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: collect that and any material that they got from Manusa's

434
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: because I think it's important to me, right, and it's

435
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: important detail I think that they don't. I think if

436
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 2: Manuso's could have said don't operate on me and save

437
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: my life, he would have. And I think they could

438
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: have meaningly inferred that from everything he had done up

439
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: to that point, and yet they went against that to

440
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: save his life.

441
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 4: So I do kind of feel like they can immediately.

442
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: Jump to using his genetic material in order to, I

443
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe stop this looming threat that they clearly

444
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 2: see coming. Like Zosha was ye troubled by his approach

445
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: in a way that the Hive mind who told Diabate

446
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: about Carol's approach were not, like they were a little

447
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: like put off, But it wasn't like like Zosha seems.

448
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 5: She seems scared your thoughts Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean

449
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 5: I think this is kind of ties back into what

450
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 5: we were discussing on the previous episode. This is clearly

451
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 5: setting us up for a major confrontation when Manusos arrives,

452
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 5: and I think it's either gonna end with Zosia getting

453
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 5: seriously injured or dying, or Carol might have to fend

454
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 5: Manuso's off and end up maybe killing him. But I

455
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 5: think someone is not going to make it out of

456
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 5: this finale. I think it's gonna be like what you

457
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 5: said last week, it's going to be a careful what

458
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 5: you wish for situation because as we saw in this episode,

459
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 5: Manuso's clearly has a pensiant or a tolerance for violence

460
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 5: and physical harm against the Hive mind. You know, he

461
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 5: had the scalpel to the surgeon's neck in a way

462
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 5: that Carol to this point we have not seen her have.

463
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 5: So I think that's going to be a part of

464
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 5: the a central part of the conflict when they do meet.

465
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 5: I think he's gonna be willing to, you know, get

466
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 5: the job done through violent means, whereas.

467
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: That Carol may balk at that.

468
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 5: So I think it'll be really interesting to see how

469
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 5: it plays out.

470
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am very very nervous about his appearance on

471
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 2: the scene, and that hostage taking scene made me think,

472
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 2: you know, we've wondered, like Manuso's like, what's his background,

473
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 2: I'm now wondering like soldier, here's the thing. Imagine yourself

474
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: for the first time coming to a place where your

475
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: decision making tells you, you know what I should do

476
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: is grab this scalpel and put it to this person's

477
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: neck to get out of here. That would never occur

478
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: to me. That's not a thing like, that's not the

479
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: first time he's done something like that. That's what that

480
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: tells me that this is a person who is used

481
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: to making these kind of extreme decisions.

482
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 3: And to your point, I do. I think he's.

483
00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: Gonna have a very militaristic idea about how to roll

484
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: this whole thing back. And I wonder if the choice

485
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: to infect him, potentially using the genetic material that they

486
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: collected during his surgery. I wonder if it's going to

487
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: be put into Carol's hands somehow, Like I wonder if,

488
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: like here's what I think might happen. There's an initial

489
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: meeting Zosha, I'm Carol and.

490
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 4: Manusos. Carol realizes.

491
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 2: How one dedicated to the cause Manuslas is, but also

492
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: how scary and maybe there's something that threatens Zosha's life

493
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: and maybe she's injured. And then Zosha says, hey, I know,

494
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: we kind of have a solution, but we can't do

495
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: it because of consent or whatever. But we made the infection,

496
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: and if you infect him with this, because I don't

497
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: think they can do it, Like, I don't think that

498
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: they could, like even if they make the thing.

499
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: They can't like inject him with it or whatever.

500
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think they can do that.

501
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: So I think they would need Carol to do it,

502
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: and Carol will be faced with this dilemma.

503
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 4: That's what I think could happen.

504
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: That would be really wild. Yeah, Oh that's good. Hmmm.

505
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I think this episode really explored the sense

506
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 5: of like duty versus connection, and particularly with Carol. You know,

507
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: she has not given up on her mission to save

508
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 5: the world, as we discussed, but at the same time,

509
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 5: she really is connecting with Zosha and seeing the beauty

510
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 5: in the hive mind like you said, and I think

511
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: she's she's torn because she's like, on the surface like

512
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 5: this is pretty good, Like I get it, but like

513
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 5: you know, she still feels a sense of duty to

514
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 5: set the world right. And she said, even if it means,

515
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 5: you know, I'm gonna be hated or alone or whatever,

516
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 5: I'm willing to make that choice to fix the world.

517
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 5: And I think if for nothing else, just to like

518
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 5: prevent everybody from starving, you know, yeah, because if nothing happened,

519
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 5: like they're eventually all gonna die. And like I don't

520
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 5: think she wants them to keep eating people either. So yeah,

521
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 5: it's really interesting.

522
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: And I think I think once they begin their big

523
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: antenna project, you're likely to see many more people die

524
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: because I think that is they're marshaling all these resources

525
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: and centralizing things one to keep the community efficient, which

526
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: is you know, it was honestly like really nice. You

527
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: couldn't help but be warmed by like the site inside

528
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: the arena with everyone, yeah, peacefully coexisting and it was

529
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: pretty sweet, right, But clearly that's so they can build

530
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: the big thing.

531
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: Right, And I think it's very likely that.

532
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: That the deaths from starvation will only increase during that period,

533
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: And like what then I the other here's the other thing.

534
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: I I don't know. I was putting myself in Carol's

535
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: shoes a lot. And I also think like there's an

536
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: there's an aspect of like ego to being like it's

537
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: on me. I've got to stop this, don't you think,

538
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying what happened? Is right, But I'm

539
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: also saying like it's twelve against seven billion, you know,

540
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: like if you go by majority rules and what you've

541
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: kind of lost already, Like what do you what do

542
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: you think about that? And what would you do? Like

543
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: what would what would you do in Carol's shoes?

544
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I think it takes a sort of

545
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 5: like a rational level of confidence, like similar to like

546
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 5: a professional athlete or something to think like, okay, like

547
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: it's me versus seven billion, but I'm there be the

548
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 5: one to get it done. Yeah, But I think if

549
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 5: I was in her shoes, I would probably do more

550
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 5: of what Diabate is doing and just like kind of

551
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 5: try to make the best of it, because I don't

552
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 5: know if I would be able to try to figure

553
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 5: out out on my own, especially knowing that the other

554
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 5: people who are in a similar position to me like want.

555
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with me.

556
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 5: I don't know.

557
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: I think that would be tough.

558
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: I think the other thing that really scares me is

559
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: you know that that moment where accidentally Carol caused how

560
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: many deaths? Did they say it was like seven million

561
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: or something?

562
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: It was like a lot, it was it was in

563
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: the millions. Yeah, what is.

564
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: The like, what is the acceptable loss rate for fixing

565
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: the world if you're going to fix it like that?

566
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: To me is the other thing, like how many millions

567
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: are you or hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands

568
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: or hundreds or dozens, what is the number that you

569
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: are comfortable with losing in order to potentially put things right?

570
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure that that's like, I'm not sure

571
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: that's a choice that I'd be comfortable making in the

572
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 2: same situation as Carol.

573
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 5: And that actually makes me think it's interesting, like we

574
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 5: haven't seen manusos cause that kind of like short out

575
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 5: to the hive mind yet, which I'm it's a little surprising.

576
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 5: So maybe it's something specific about Carol, But I wonder

577
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 5: if that maybe comes into play in the finale, Like

578
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 5: he does something so aggressive towards somebody in the hive

579
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 5: mind it causes a bunch of people to short out,

580
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 5: and maybe that kills a bunch of people and that's what,

581
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 5: you know, turns Carol against him or something. So I

582
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 5: think it'll be interesting to see how that plays out too,

583
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 5: because we know, you know, they react really strongly to

584
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 5: negative emotions.

585
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, Manusas is coming in with a shitloader.

586
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 5: Negative emotions, so we'll see if that is a factor too,

587
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it's again just setting us up

588
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 5: for a wild finale.

589
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: It's what's interesting to me is like that the Hive

590
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: Mind or whoever initiated this signal has they must have

591
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: had this problem before, right, like on whatever other planet

592
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: they've managed to transform, Like there must have been a

593
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: handful of like immune individuals right somehow. And it's interesting

594
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 2: to me that though the Hive Mind code unites, it

595
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: unites everyone, it has kind of like no other information.

596
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: It's just basically like, okay, you're all united, and in

597
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: that uniting they are clearly so grateful for the gift

598
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: they've been given that they want to send the message on.

599
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 2: But there's no script in there, no anything in there

600
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: about how to deal with the eventuality. That's not everyone

601
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 2: will be transformed, and that is I don't know, that's

602
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: interesting to me.

603
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no like troubleshooting steps if something goes wrong. Yeah,

604
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 5: it's interesting. It is kind of like they you know,

605
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 5: like leaving them to their own devices. It's like, all right,

606
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 5: like you guys are born now here, you're out in

607
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 5: the world, like figure it out, you know, it interesting

608
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 5: And to that point, I think we did get a

609
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 5: lot of some really kind of big lore drops in

610
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 5: this episode. But yeah, it was very casually dropped and

611
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 5: then they kind of moved past it pretty quickly. But

612
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 5: I think that's a kind of par for the course

613
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 5: with the show, where Vince is just like, oh, yeah,

614
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 5: you want to know some more stuff. Here it is,

615
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 5: but like, that's not really what it's about. It's about

616
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 5: the connections between these characters. So, you know, we learn

617
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 5: about the planet where the signal comes from Kepler two

618
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 5: two six. But it's interesting that even the High Mind

619
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 5: is like, we don't really know much about the planet

620
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 5: or its inhabitants. We just know that we love them

621
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 5: and we're grateful to them for sharing this gift with us,

622
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 5: and we just want to keep spreading it out to

623
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 5: whoever else is out there in the universe. So I

624
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 5: honestly like wonder if there even was that kind of

625
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 5: knowledge of like what to do if something goes wrong

626
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 5: from that from Kepler two two six, or if that

627
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 5: was a similar situation where you know, the signal got

628
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 5: beamed to them and they just passed it on without

629
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 5: really much knowledge of its origin, and so I wonder

630
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 5: if we will find out more about that or if

631
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 5: that just going to kind of be like a looming

632
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 5: mystery of like we don't really know where it came from.

633
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 5: We just know we want to keep spreading it. You know,

634
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 5: what are your thoughts about about that and that information

635
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 5: that was revealed.

636
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty fascinating. I also think that, like

637
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: the loard drop that kind of like broke my brain

638
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: a little bit was the fact that the infection works

639
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: by activating a latent ability for telepathy that human beings have,

640
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: like an ability to mind meld over the electromagnetic spectrum

641
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 2: somehow that just humans are not able to uh to

642
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: interact with because it doesn't add anything or take any

643
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: It just kind of like opens up that channel. And

644
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: that part of it was you know, really fascinating, really

645
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: really really interesting.

646
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, when Zosha is like, oh, it's part of you know,

647
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 5: the human body's natural electromagnetic field, Like you have one too,

648
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 5: you're just like not tapping into it, that is really

649
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 5: interesting ideas. So I guess maybe the virus or the

650
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 5: code rerid it's your DNA in a way to allow

651
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 5: you to access that on a I guess subconscious level,

652
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 5: because she said there it's like breathing for them and

653
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 5: they're not actively using it like a radio. So oh,

654
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 5: and then that makes me think, is that the frequency

655
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 5: that Manuso's picked up on the radio? That electromagnetic frequency?

656
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: Do we think?

657
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: I think that that's what it is? And I think,

658
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: you know, Manusa's is going to have some big brain

659
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: idea like, you know, let's go to that field of

660
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: huge antennas that we saw in episode one and let's

661
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: jam the signal or something like that.

662
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 3: You know.

663
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: I also think that I can't wait to learn more

664
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: about Manusos because I also feel like the way he

665
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 2: he's like, how did he know this was happening? He

666
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: must have picked up on it somehow, and because he

667
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: obviously Carol has sent him information and he's watched the video,

668
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: so he knows a certain amount in particular that you

669
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,959
Speaker 2: know that this is some kind of alien invasion, et cetera.

670
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: But he also seemed like he knew that beforehand, like

671
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: that there was something that had that had signaled to

672
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: him that something was happening. And his like rage about

673
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: that is fascinating to me. And so when are we

674
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: going to get and I feel like it must be

675
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,479
Speaker 2: the finale, right, when.

676
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: Are we going to get a backstory?

677
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: Yes, the backstory, It must be next episode, right, it

678
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: has to be.

679
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, because yeah, it is interesting because in the beginning,

680
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 5: when we first are introduced to him, he's already locked

681
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 5: down in the bunker. We don't really know how long

682
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 5: he's been there, how he found out. But then when

683
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 5: he gets that first tape from Carol, he is surprised

684
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 5: to learn that there are other people like him. So

685
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 5: he was siloed in that way where he knew some

686
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 5: things but not, you know, as much as Carol or

687
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 5: the other survivors knew. But then clearly he had interacted

688
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 5: with some other people before, like like when he was

689
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 5: leaving to go on his journey and he runs across

690
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 5: a person used to be his mom.

691
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: You know. I think maybe that was initially.

692
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 5: What like clued him in or something, when he was like,

693
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 5: you know, my mom was a horrible person, like you're

694
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 5: not her. Maybe that was when it first started. He

695
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 5: was yeah with his mom or something, and that's what

696
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 5: clued him in like something is not right. Yeah, I

697
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 5: think we're gonna have to get some kind of backstory

698
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 5: about where he was like the day had happened during

699
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 5: the joining or something. Maybe we'll get that flashback in

700
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 5: the in the finale.

701
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 4: Any predictions for the finale.

702
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 5: I mean, but beyond just the big conflict between Carol

703
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 5: and Manusos, I think, yeah, we'll learn maybe a little

704
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 5: bit more about Manusa's backstory. I think I hope the

705
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 5: eggs come into play because that was like a really

706
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 5: big detail that's been left dangling. So I think that

707
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 5: will come into play.

708
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: Hmm yeah.

709
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 5: I mean other than that, I'm like not really sure

710
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 5: where it's going to go, but I think we're we're

711
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 5: in for a doozy of a finale doozy. But I

712
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 5: think the main the main conflict is going to be,

713
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 5: you know, how is Manussa's going to react when he

714
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 5: sees how buddy buddy Carol has become with with Zosia

715
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 5: and and aspects of the Hive Mind situation. So be

716
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 5: fascinating to see how that plays out.

717
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for joining us uh and getting over the

718
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: hurdle of your wonky internet. This show is just incredible, incredible.

719
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: It's so good.

720
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 4: It's so good.

721
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much too, Like The The Clear,

722
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 2: I mean it you'd almost call it like a seduction

723
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: of Carol by the hive mind is so effective and

724
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: well done, and them sharing things about each other is

725
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 2: so interesting. I mean, I can't I can't get enough.

726
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like love the show and I can't wait

727
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: for the finale. I'm really really worried that Sosha is

728
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: gonna get hurt or die. I'm very concerned, yes, very

729
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: very worried. It feels like it's got to be either

730
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: Manuso's or Zosia at this point.

731
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely one of those two. Something bad is going

732
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 5: to happen to one of the two of them. There's

733
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 5: no way that they can all co exist, I don't

734
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 5: think peacefully. So yeah, we'll see what happens. But yeah,

735
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 5: to the last point, you were just making it that

736
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 5: is something I hadn't really considered until this episode. But

737
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 5: it's like, not only do they have the collective intellect

738
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 5: of you know, all the best pilot surgeons, doctors, chess

739
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 5: players in the world, but also like they have the

740
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 5: charm and charisma of the most charismatic people on the planet,

741
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 5: and they really put it on full display this episode.

742
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 5: You know, even like Zosha teasing Carol when they're playing

743
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 5: croquet and like that's like and them like joking around

744
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 5: and being like humorous like that.

745
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: We hadn't really seen much.

746
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, the little trash talk like all that stuff was

747
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: so good, and.

748
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 5: They really turned it on on this episode to as

749
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 5: Carol called out, to distract her and manipulate her. And

750
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 5: I thought that was pretty sinister. Actually, the fact that

751
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 5: they like rebuilt the diner, moved this woman from like

752
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 5: Florida back to to Albertquerque just to appease or to

753
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 5: distract Carrol as like pretty that was pretty gross.

754
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: So it's like oof.

755
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: What I find like really sinister about it too, is

756
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: that it's also sincere, like the hive mind. Are all

757
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 2: these people right, like they're they're they're great, They're great strategists,

758
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: they're great manipulators, they're you know, uh, but also you

759
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: know lovers and empaths and fans of Waikaro. And so

760
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: while they're simultaneously planning to distract and dissuade Carol from

761
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: going through with trying to find a cure, and that

762
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: is very sinister, there's also the level of their sincerely

763
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: falling in love with Carol. Potentially they're sincerely like interested

764
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: in everything she has to say, they're sincerely fans of

765
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 2: Waikaro and can't wait for more, while they're also sincerely.

766
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 3: Trying to fuck her up.

767
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: Like it's all of that at once, which is it's

768
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: hard to get your mind around it.

769
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 5: It's fascinating, and yeah, it's like it's so conflicting, and

770
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 5: like I can see why Carol is like so on

771
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 5: the fence and unsure of what's the right way to proceed,

772
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 5: because yeah, I mean that would be enough to make

773
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 5: anybody's head spin because they're actively trying to fuck with you.

774
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 5: But at the same time, like they also are, as

775
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 5: you said, so sincere in everything that they're doing. So

776
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 5: it's like where does that leave you? You know, Yeah,

777
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 5: it's it's crazy.

778
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: It reminds me in fact of like this. I think

779
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: I've talked about this on before. There's this book I

780
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 2: read Up the River, and it's about like colonialism in Africa,

781
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: and the narrator talks about how, you know, how destructive

782
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: and oppressive like Western civilization through colonialism is there in Africa.

783
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: He's he's a South Asian immigrant in Africa living in Africa,

784
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 2: which is under colonial rule, and and he says like

785
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: he's talking about like a statue that the Europeans put

786
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: up like in the town square, and he's like, you know,

787
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: the Europeans they want they want golden slaves like everybody else,

788
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: but they also.

789
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 4: Want you to like be you all.

790
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: They also want you to look at them as like

791
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: these great intellectuals and lovers of culture, with all these

792
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 2: other like with all these other positive aspects, despite the

793
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: fact that they want to do bad things, destructive things here.

794
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: And I think it's I think about it in the

795
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: same kind of way where it's like it's hard to

796
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: unwrap it all, Like the the hive mind have ill intent,

797
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: but they also have like good intent. They have there's

798
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,720
Speaker 2: a part of them that wants to do the best

799
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: for you and they are true and it's more than

800
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 2: two things.

801
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 3: And it's so.

802
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 2: Like complex to try and grapple with. I think Carol's

803
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 2: doing kind of her best, but it must be such

804
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: an incredible mind fucking who could blame a person for

805
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: taking the diabate route where they're just like, you know what,

806
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: I can't I don't know if I can necessarily fix this,

807
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 2: and I certainly can't fix this today. So like let's uh,

808
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: you know. Uh, let's let's play James Bond like in

809
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: Las Vegas and just enjoy ourselves.

810
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man, it's just such a good show man,

811
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: I can't.

812
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 4: Live I me neither. Finale coming up soon.

813
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: Stay tuned x ray Vision, where we're diving into continuing

814
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: to dive into Pluribus as well as start our coverage

815
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: of Fallout season two, and on the next episode of

816
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 2: Extra Vision, we're diving into non traditional holiday movies the

817
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: whole family can joy and discussing in the second episode

818
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,280
Speaker 2: of Fallout season two. That's it from this episode.

819
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to.

820
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie

821
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 2: Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive

822
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

823
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

824
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wax.

825
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

826
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord,

827
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: Kenny Goodman and Heidi our Discord moderate them