WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Murder of Catrine da Costa 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.440 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.200 by Hugs for Pugs. Instead, it's brought to you by 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:09.040 Unexplained Mysteries. If you're a fan of our podcast, you 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:13.440 probably enjoy mysteries, so you should definitely check out Unexplained Mysteries. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.040 Every week, the hosts explore the greatest mysteries of the 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.599 past and present, from the building of Stonehenge to the 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.079 subject of the Mona Lisa. There may not be a 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.840 simple answer or explanation, just like us, but that doesn't 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.520 mean there's nothing to talk about. Visit Apple Podcasts, tune 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.680 in spot, basically anywhere you can find them. Definitely podcasts, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.280 and it's Unexplained Mysteries. You know how to spell and 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.840 explained mysteries. That's probably how you found us. You searched 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.519 don't explained mysteries. Podcasts do the same thing, except for 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.560 put podcast p a R cast and you'll find them. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.640 This episode is also brought to you by the audiobook 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.280 edition of The Wife Between Us by Career Hendrix and 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.320 Sarah Peckin. In here the story listeners are calling Wow, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.040 just Wow, and one of the best audio books ever 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.080 narrated by Julia Wheelan a twisty psychological suspense about a 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.520 jealous wife is not what you think. Start listening now 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:19.800 at McMillan audio dot com slash wife between us think. 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:35.000 Hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:40.399 joined as always by Steve and Devon, and today this 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:45.400 week we're going to talk about another unsolved mystery. Yeah. Uh, 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.960 we're gonna talk about the unsolved murder from Catherine da 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.920 Costa ut. Pronouncing that right, I'm gonna mispronounce every word 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:58.040 I say. I feel like any time like we get 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.000 a lot of suggestions for Swedish otherwise kind of that 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.080 area mysteries, and every time I feel like it's just 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.560 because people want to hear us struggle. There's a lot 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.240 of who are very very honestly willing to help us. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.280 They are it doesn't help him over the internet, and 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.600 therefore it does not help us. Pronounce unless you're gonna, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.920 like send us actual audio files of you saying the words, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.280 it's not that barely works. Yeah, just as a small 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.239 warning there, there are some things that which should be 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.079 considered adult content. So viewer discretion is advised and also 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.519 a listener discretion to thank goodness, because the viewership is 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.320 really low. These people are staring at their iPods going 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:47.160 what the hell? Actually, we were apparently on a run 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:51.280 of this kind of story because this is like, yeah, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.800 I hate to admit it, but stories like this are 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.679 really easy. Well I'm telling you right now, Next week 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.799 not going to have any warnings whatsoever, going to be 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.399 the nicest, blandest story. It's going to be wholesome. Yeah, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.520 next white, next week, the story is is actually going 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.840 to be about my Little Pony. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.239 don't even go there though, because they get but my 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:19.440 Little Pony fandom gets a little whatever. Anyway, the story, yeah, okay, alright, anyway, 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.959 sorry here. Oh yeah, So catin Da Costa she was 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.799 she was twenty eight years old when she vanished. That 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.320 would have been that was June test four when she 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.640 was last seen. Um, she was she had been drug 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.480 addicted since high school and and was clear up to 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.520 the end had a big problem with drugs and so eventually, yeah, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.760 and eventually that sort of drove her into prostitution. And 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.720 she was working at the time of her death in 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.080 Stockholm in an area town that's called Mom's Achilles Gotten, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.240 which is like kind of this business district. Apparently that 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.960 all the all the prostitutes and went to and their 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.120 drug dealing was going on. That apparently they've cleaned out 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.080 all up and it's you know, and of course it's 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.640 vanished completely. No now it's it's moved somewhere else. But 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.160 that's what the neighborhood was called in that time. She 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.440 uh had moved around a little bit, struggled, as I said, 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.039 with drugs. She moved to Portugal for a while, got married, 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.039 had a kid, and then when she got back to Sweden, 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.239 unfortunately the child was taken away from her by social 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.640 services and by reportedly her drug habit had gotten worse, 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.960 which typically happens. Yeah, they tend to get worse and worse. 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.839 Yea worse and worse. She had odeed a few times, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.040 and she you know, of course, you know you need 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.000 more drugs. That means you need more money. So she 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.320 started taking on clients that the other women in the 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.880 area would refuse, you know, the guys who were the 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.520 real sicko types, the violent ones and stuff. Yeah, so 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.080 she tried to started taking on a kind of risk 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.960 of your business. So it's always so sad. I feel 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.880 like when people get stuck in that cycle. You know, yeah, 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.400 it kind of it's kind of like a how you know, 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.480 is it their fault? Is it not their faults? Who knows? 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.800 But like just like it's sad no matter what. So 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.440 you know, you know, obviously addiction is a big thing. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.000 It happens to the best of us. But you know, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.120 she probably would have been better off going into rehab. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.440 I think I can say, yeah, it is, but you 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.240 totally easier but exactly, yeah, it's easier to say that. 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.440 But well, any way, back to her disappearance. Apparently last 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.000 she was last seen in Mom's Kells gotten in on 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.360 June tents getting out of a client's car. Uh. Five 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.200 weeks later, that would be mid July eighty four, some 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.200 of our body parts were found in a plastic bag 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.280 in a suburb of Stockholm, dear what's called the Kolinski 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:50.680 or Kolinska Institute, Yeah, which is like a hospital, a 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.160 medical uh somewhere nearby there. And then three weeks after that, 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.760 that would have been early August, another garbage bag of 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.440 body parts was found less than a mile away. And 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.400 so they've got most everything. They put her all back 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.640 together kind of except for her head, which was never found. 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.400 There were some other bits, some other bits, so I 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:14.040 won't give you a detailed list. There were specific gender 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.800 organs like the kini areas. Yeah, there's that. And also 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.040 some of her internal organs were never found. I'm pretty 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.320 sure her being a heroin addict, I'm pretty sure they 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.799 were not sold for transplants. Probably not. But her hands 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:30.719 luckily were intact, and so they were able to idea 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.960 her through her fingerprints. The organs that were missing, were 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.520 they the kind that you would transplant normally? I have 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.520 no idea what organs were going, to be honest with you. 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.400 I thought it was like some intestines, which we just 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:48.159 learned apparently that's like a thing, but probably not. But yeah, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:49.960 I thought it was just kind of these weird and 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.480 ocuuss like why would they be missing organs? But maybe not. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.880 I don't really know. And that's a good question. I mean, 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.240 in the whole dissection thing that probably when you're busy 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.159 cutting out the body, there's certain things that just sort 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:02.880 of then this is going to be gross, but probably 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.240 just sort of fall out. And so although at the 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.200 same time that makes no sense because you would think 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.400 you're just stuff them in the garbage bags. You're stuffing 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.960 everything else into right. Well, but I mean some of 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.280 the other body parts that were missing seemed like I mean, 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.600 that seems more like intentional trophies, you know, as we're 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.880 talking about again these like kind of bikini areas, um 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.920 that we're missing. That seems like a trophy keep for 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.840 somebody versus you know, the organ. So if you are, 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.320 you know, just you've got some stuff in a pile 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:37.480 over there. Maybe that just slipped in doubt or maybe 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.280 the guy had hogs and I don't know, but then 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:41.920 you would just feed all of it to the hogs, 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.480 wouldn't you would? Right, they'll eat it all. Hogs only 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:50.640 eat the finest liver and intestines and breast and whatever 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.600 those bits. Okay, So anyway, now we've gotten to that. Oh, 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.480 by the way, I wanted I wanted to thank Candice 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:03.160 who suggested this for got Yeah sorry, yeah, sorry Candice. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.120 I should have said something earlier and wait until we 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.560 were right in the middle of all the gross parts. 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.120 But I do thank you for suggesting it, and I'm 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.760 sure a lot of other our other Swedish listeners are 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.200 probably mentioned it to at some point, So thanks to 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.840 all of you too, Uh, well anyway, it says, you 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.720 all know, it's one thing to murder somebody, but when 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.840 you start chopping them up into pieces, well that gets 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.240 people's attention. That's another thing entirely. Yeah, usually people would 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.680 consider that to be beyond the pale. Ye. Yeah. And 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.240 so this became a really big case in Sweden, and 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.360 if you live in Sweden, I'm sure you've heard of it. 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.559 It's apparently one of their biggest doneselve mysteries, especially especially 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.120 in the like, you know, mid eighties. Yeah. I guess 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:41.719 we're more used to that kind of stuff these days 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.719 with the internet and TV and well, I mean just 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.000 more that this case happened in the mid eighties, but 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.800 it's still around and we'll still talk about it writing 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.960 about it. But but as Steve said, it is called 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.599 the cutting up murder. At least that's the sort of 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:59.360 crude English translation of it. There's some very long Swedish word. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.079 I don't ever like their long words, don't. And the 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:07.040 Germans I feel really like shove them all together. Yeah. Yeah, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.160 I'm sorry I might have missed it. You might have 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.360 said it, but how how were they able to identify 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.800 the body fingerprints? So her hands weren't I did find 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.720 the hands. Yeah, okay, so yeah, at all they pieced 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:20.719 it all together, everything went together, and yeah it was 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.719 all the same body and fingerprints. Yeah, and then the 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.120 tabloid showed up and oh yeah I got huge and 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.520 that went. Yeah, I just went kind of crazy from there. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.800 They didn't inspire some famous books. Yeah, supposedly they are 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.360 actually books written literally about this story. Documentaries were done. 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.559 But also supposedly it's been claimed that a few famous 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.319 Swedish writers like Stig Larson you know you're familiar with 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.839 that guy, was inspired the tattoo. Yeah, which, by the way, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.679 I just recently saw the both both versions of that movie. Oh, 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:51.760 I read the book. The book was good. Yeah, I 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.360 watched the movie. I haven't gotten to either of those things. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:58.600 So yeah, but if somebody wasn't doing their research, yeah, 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.040 because that was the big part of it, you're right, 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.040 sorry now, But actually having seen both of those movies, 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.720 I saw the original plus to Daniel Craig remake in English, 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.000 and I consider myself to be an expert on Swedish 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.640 society and culture. Should yeah, totally. I considered myself to 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.400 be an expert on Swedish culture in society by because 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.400 I've gone Twikia a couple of times. Oh there you go, 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:26.320 I eat Swedish fish. I'm so sorry. Yeah, okay, Well, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.280 you know the one thing I noticed about Ikea though, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:29.760 is that when you go there, you know, it's that 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:34.120 Swedish furniture looks exactly like American furniture. Yeah, because it's 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.400 just harder to put together. Yeah, now, well that's because 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.679 I was. It's just no, it's because American furniture is 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:42.840 all I keia. I mean, averybody I know has Ikea 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.160 in their house. Oh, back to our story. As Steve said, 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.280 the tablets did go nuts over this. I was just 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.880 showing Devon before we started recording a copy of one 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.800 of the stories. You'll find a picture of it on Instagram. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.680 it's a it's an so four weeks ago a yeah 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.240 when this uh uh. And of course, this case also 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.960 became a big cost for the women's rights groups because 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.520 in Katrine Cain excuse me, became a symbol for the 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.200 ill treatment of women in Swedish society, which I can't 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.520 really comment because I've never been to Sweden, but I 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.679 mean I would say there's some not to like go 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.080 on a political soapbox necessarily or anything. But I would 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.719 say that, yes, like there is a general lack of 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.599 care for women who are put into situations like this, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.160 who particularly women who end up, you know, being in 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:35.160 the sex working industry or sex trade. You know, there 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.360 is that general kind of lack of not in this 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.760 room certainly, but in society and general lack of kind 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.080 of care of their own safety. Yeah. They they make 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.560 convenient targets pure sure. I mean yeah often. I mean 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.280 same with like women who are experiencing homelessness or anything 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.360 like that. I mean, you know, women on the kind 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.599 of fringe of society and men to certainly less a 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.160 little bit, but men and women on the fringes of 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.520 society do tend to be easy victims. Well, I was 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.680 reading the other day some stat about, you know, sex 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.000 workers in this type of situation you actually being used 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.720 ter street walker, because that's put you in the most 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.720 direct line of fire. But I was reading and I did. 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.280 I can't remember what the number was for the you know, 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.559 the percentage of likelihood of death, but it was I 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.240 was like, that's not right. And then I walked away 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.720 and I'm standing, I'm like, that's a really big number, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.240 like another reason to not go into that, particularly profession 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.840 I would say, yeah, but unfortunately area some people feel 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.319 like that's their only option. Again, you know, certainly like 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.360 drug addiction often pleays into that, and that there were 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.240 certain certain societies like you know, I mean in Russia 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.720 after the big collapse in the economy, it went all 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.120 to hell, a lot of women turned to prostitution. And 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.839 I mean, and we're talking like professional women started doing 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.000 it stuff, you know what happens. But anyway, but I 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:00.920 don't want to get down to Yeah, I was gonna say, 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:05.120 I'm gonna step up. But the other controversy is, of course, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.360 the trials. There were two trials about this. There were yeah, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.640 there were, Yeah, A couple of suspects were rustled up. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.880 They were put on trial for the murder. They were convicted, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.520 but the verge was overturned and that was that, except 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.679 there was a huge outcry about the whole thing, and 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.280 so they were put on trial again, and second time 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.240 around they were acquitted. Um, and so they want on 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.360 just to lead their lives, except their lives are kind 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:34.199 of destroyed. But yeah, yeah, that's hard. That's I was 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.160 going to say, like a public campaign like this is 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.440 is almost impossible to overcome and to get a fair hearing, 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.880 I mean, and even yeah, and even if it turns 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.959 out that you are innocent, you know, there's kind of 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.240 that guilty by public opinion situation that happens a lot 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.960 these days, and it's kind of unfortunate. Yeah, but also 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.600 maybe sometimes okay, well, it just depends on if they 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.760 were guilty or not. But I can say, I can 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.760 say and equivocally like having read a few of the 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.640 tabloid stories about the murderers, if they were indeed murders, 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.079 that even if they were guilty, the stuff that was 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.679 said about them in the tabloids was just totally inflammatory. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.400 Beyond inflammatory things that were said, they were obviously not true. 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.480 Obviously obviously they did. They were just they made these 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.360 people out to be vampires and you know, mass murderers. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.320 Literally not he's not, he's not, Like, yeah, I know, 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.440 but Joe was like saying, like, truly, again, if you 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.280 go look our instagram, not to push too much, there's 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.160 this article that's just like he was an actual vampire. 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.440 Like that was the claim that they were making. It 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:39.440 wasn't just like they were making them out to be 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:45.120 these like yeah literally, yeah yeah, yeah, And so I 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.600 could say that it's probably pretty hard to recover your 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:52.920 reputation after something like that. Yeah, but this is still 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:54.960 hotly debated. A lot of people thought that they and 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.080 still think that they were guilty. Um, you know, of 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:02.000 course the tabloids and but other people think they were railroaded. Well, anyway, 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.280 let's take a look at the suspects. Yet, we got 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.000 a lot of theories about this is one of those 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.240 weird ones. We have a very short intro because the 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.960 shorty story so small, but the theory section is the 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.040 majority of it. Don't be confused here. We're not breaking 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:21.000 right now story not yet. Okay, here we go. That's 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.120 not it. It's like, oh, sorry, that was I was 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.120 doing the What was the phenomena? Yep, that's the one 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.200 I was doing. That's what I always do. Okay, So 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.720 we got the music out of the way, alright, phenomena. 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:36.880 All right, let's look at the theories here. So Chuppy. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.840 I haven't mentioned Chuppy for a while, you haven't. I 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.800 recently did a board at work casual a m A 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.760 on Twitter. You guys may may not have seen one 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.880 of the number one most asked questions, was what did 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.240 Chuppy ever do to Joe that he accuses him of 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.720 like stuff all the time. And I was like, listen, nothing, okay, 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:59.200 according to our response to the legal suit, nothing happened, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.760 and nothing every shall and we shall out officially blame 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.480 him for anything never ever. No, no, I will tell 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:11.600 you what happened is yeah, your goal. I don't think 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.480 Chippy was involved. No, it wasn't. No, It's not not 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.280 that at all. It's it's just, you know, when we're 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.400 looking for a little filler, you know, we'll talk about Chippy, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.920 you know. Uh. But also I just like his name. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.280 You know, he's got a cool name, Chippy, Yeah, Chip. Yeah. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.280 But I want to like this sory, and I you know, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.400 I do like this sery. But well, okay, you know 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.240 where I'm you know where I'm going here. Okay, it wasn't. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.360 How about the next one. Next theory, there's another theory 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.240 out there. I mean, it turns out that from the 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.520 body parts collected, they were never actually able to establish 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.240 a cause of death. So it's not bullet wound or 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:52.280 stab wound or the head. Yeah. But the hard part 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.800 with that is, like somebody cut off her head, like 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.640 that could have been the cause of death. They don't 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.720 have the head. They don't have the head, so they 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.920 don't know. I don't know. Somebody could have like, yeah, 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.680 there's so many different things that could have happened to 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.040 her body. Because they cut it up afterwards, it's hard 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.280 to tell what happened. Yeah, I mean, so it's so technically, yes, 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.280 they didn't have a cause of death. Yeah, basically diving, 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:20.240 overdose and uh. And somebody decided to practice their dissection skills. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.600 They were not very good at it. Well, actually they 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.240 were pretty good, and some people were really good. They 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.199 got her into a bunch of little pieces. Yeah Mechlaxander 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.240 said that it looked professional. Another another idea is that 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.080 it was just somebody that somebody comes across the dead 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.000 body and think, hey, this is what a great troll. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:36.920 This will be. Well, we'll chop the body up in 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.679 the bits, put it in garbage bags, and we'll leave 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.000 it distributed around town and people will go nuts. So rude. Yeah, 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.480 I kind of find that hard to believe too. That's 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.639 a pretty extreme troll. I could picture somebody doing that, 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.680 except for the part about getting thrown in prison for 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.399 many years. If you get busted for doing it, and 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.879 you always you always make this mistake of assuming that 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:07.240 people think out repercussions of their actions. I mean, logan, Paul, Paul, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.080 do you not know about this? Which is that use 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.400 a YouTube quote unquote YouTube sensation who thought it would 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.159 be cool to go into the Japanese suicide forest and 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:21.640 film a recently suicide body idea. Oh no, I don't 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.240 remember this, but I can only imagine how badly that 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.040 Oh yeah, really really bad. And how did the Japanese 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:33.080 feel about They're like, this is an atrocity, Like I mean, yeah, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.600 basically they were like, we would love to prosecute you 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.960 if if you know, if America would extra that you, 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.200 we'd love to prosecute you. And America is like, now, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.960 but this just happened, and YouTube just no, he didn't 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.160 kill anybody, but like it's very port but it's it's 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.400 the same sort of thing, right, It's like profiting off 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.680 of getting something off of a dead body, the same 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.080 thing as like kind of cutting up I guess maybe not, 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.119 but you know, almost the same thing as cutting up 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.520 a dead body to just like get a bit, not 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.920 just get your jollies, but to just watch everybody else 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.320 lose their heads over it's what happened here. But literally, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.800 this is not a joke. Yeah, I didn't make the 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:17.480 head and shoulders above the restaurant. Okay, let's keep going. Okay, so, 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.119 but so that's what you gotta put that into the 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.480 realm of the possible but extremely unlikely Okay, yeah, super unlikely. Yeah, 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.960 and of course dragons, Dungeons and dragons, it's like their props. No, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.920 not like this. We've proven that that whole thing is 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.240 not real. No, Dungeons and Dragons players do like their props, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.560 but the only reason they really like their props is 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:39.720 because you buy them and then you get to paint 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:44.560 them yourselves. That's them all. Yeah, okay, that's how that 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:49.320 works with right, Okay, let's keep going because I just 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:54.800 emails from this episode, have the time, Yeah, now we don't. So, 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.560 but even though I considered a possibility that she was 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.600 not even murdered, she died of natural like an o, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.200 it's unlikely. It does seem unlikely. Yeah, it seems very unlikely. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.399 But ever did happen? Whoever actually did it? You know, 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.520 you could have come forward and says, hey, by the way, 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.200 you're all overreacting and you're putting these guys on trial. 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.360 I chopped the body up, but she was already dead. 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.639 Of course that guy didn't come forward and say that 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.240 out of your mind to do that. Let's move on 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.400 to our next theory. This is an actual person whose 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:29.679 name was Stanislav Gonerka, who was a Polish person, I think, 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:31.639 a Polish immigrant to Sweden, and we're just going to 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.800 call him Stan because I can't possibly try to pronounce 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.800 I can pronounce it, sadly, it's just last thing that's 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.160 kind of a still. I just want to call him Stan. 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.040 I don't know Stan. Yeah, we'll call him Stan. But 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.560 Stan was a butcher by profession. He had been locked 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.920 up in a mental institution for about ten years because well, 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.399 in nineteen seventy four he murdered a young woman by 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.760 strangling her and then he cut his kind of body 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.240 up in the small piece is put in garbage bags, 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.159 um and very similar to and the head that he 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.159 was never found. Katherine, Yeah it was. I think I 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.080 think Katherine is a correct pronunciation. But so this does 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:17.800 sound like an awfully familiar it does. Yeah, I'm sorry, 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.640 you may or may not have an answer to this. Question, 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.280 why is he put in a menstal mental institution instead 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.359 of jail. I guess they must have decided maybe his 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.520 his his attorney might have pleaded insanity. So it turns 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.080 out that's not so common. He was in the seventies, 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.920 even in the seventies, and it's another country and we 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.840 don't know exactly how their system works. I'll just say 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.600 that it turns out the whole like insanity thing is 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.680 not so common because it out that falls apart. Well, 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:51.000 either it falls apart or the sentence of insanity is 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.400 like way worse. That's that's the problem, doesn't It doesn't 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.600 mean they just let you go, because if they put 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.320 you an insane asylum and then somehow you have to 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.520 prove you're not insane, which is that's hard. That's probably 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:06.159 harder than convincing the board. Yeah, from but I'm not insane. 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.680 I'm not insane. For the next for you guys have 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.480 heard that thing, right, there was the journalist. I'm sure 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:14.680