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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Steve and Devon, and today this
Speaker 1: week we're going to talk about another unsolved mystery. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the unsolved murder from Catherine da
Speaker 1: Costa ut. Pronouncing that right, I'm gonna mispronounce every word
Speaker 1: I say. I feel like any time like we get
Speaker 1: a lot of suggestions for Swedish otherwise kind of that
Speaker 1: area mysteries, and every time I feel like it's just
Speaker 1: because people want to hear us struggle. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of who are very very honestly willing to help us.
Speaker 1: They are it doesn't help him over the internet, and
Speaker 1: therefore it does not help us. Pronounce unless you're gonna,
Speaker 1: like send us actual audio files of you saying the words,
Speaker 1: it's not that barely works. Yeah, just as a small
Speaker 1: warning there, there are some things that which should be
Speaker 1: considered adult content. So viewer discretion is advised and also
Speaker 1: a listener discretion to thank goodness, because the viewership is
Speaker 1: really low. These people are staring at their iPods going
Speaker 1: what the hell? Actually, we were apparently on a run
Speaker 1: of this kind of story because this is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate to admit it, but stories like this are
Speaker 1: really easy. Well I'm telling you right now, Next week
Speaker 1: not going to have any warnings whatsoever, going to be
Speaker 1: the nicest, blandest story. It's going to be wholesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: next white, next week, the story is is actually going
Speaker 1: to be about my Little Pony. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: don't even go there though, because they get but my
Speaker 1: Little Pony fandom gets a little whatever. Anyway, the story, yeah, okay, alright, anyway,
Speaker 1: sorry here. Oh yeah, So catin Da Costa she was
Speaker 1: she was twenty eight years old when she vanished. That
Speaker 1: would have been that was June test four when she
Speaker 1: was last seen. Um, she was she had been drug
Speaker 1: addicted since high school and and was clear up to
Speaker 1: the end had a big problem with drugs and so eventually, yeah,
Speaker 1: and eventually that sort of drove her into prostitution. And
Speaker 1: she was working at the time of her death in
Speaker 1: Stockholm in an area town that's called Mom's Achilles Gotten,
Speaker 1: which is like kind of this business district. Apparently that
Speaker 1: all the all the prostitutes and went to and their
Speaker 1: drug dealing was going on. That apparently they've cleaned out
Speaker 1: all up and it's you know, and of course it's
Speaker 1: vanished completely. No now it's it's moved somewhere else. But
Speaker 1: that's what the neighborhood was called in that time. She
Speaker 1: uh had moved around a little bit, struggled, as I said,
Speaker 1: with drugs. She moved to Portugal for a while, got married,
Speaker 1: had a kid, and then when she got back to Sweden,
Speaker 1: unfortunately the child was taken away from her by social
Speaker 1: services and by reportedly her drug habit had gotten worse,
Speaker 1: which typically happens. Yeah, they tend to get worse and worse.
Speaker 1: Yea worse and worse. She had odeed a few times,
Speaker 1: and she you know, of course, you know you need
Speaker 1: more drugs. That means you need more money. So she
Speaker 1: started taking on clients that the other women in the
Speaker 1: area would refuse, you know, the guys who were the
Speaker 1: real sicko types, the violent ones and stuff. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: she tried to started taking on a kind of risk
Speaker 1: of your business. So it's always so sad. I feel
Speaker 1: like when people get stuck in that cycle. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it kind of it's kind of like a how you know,
Speaker 1: is it their fault? Is it not their faults? Who knows?
Speaker 1: But like just like it's sad no matter what. So
Speaker 1: you know, you know, obviously addiction is a big thing.
Speaker 1: It happens to the best of us. But you know,
Speaker 1: she probably would have been better off going into rehab.
Speaker 1: I think I can say, yeah, it is, but you
Speaker 1: totally easier but exactly, yeah, it's easier to say that.
Speaker 1: But well, any way, back to her disappearance. Apparently last
Speaker 1: she was last seen in Mom's Kells gotten in on
Speaker 1: June tents getting out of a client's car. Uh. Five
Speaker 1: weeks later, that would be mid July eighty four, some
Speaker 1: of our body parts were found in a plastic bag
Speaker 1: in a suburb of Stockholm, dear what's called the Kolinski
Speaker 1: or Kolinska Institute, Yeah, which is like a hospital, a
Speaker 1: medical uh somewhere nearby there. And then three weeks after that,
Speaker 1: that would have been early August, another garbage bag of
Speaker 1: body parts was found less than a mile away. And
Speaker 1: so they've got most everything. They put her all back
Speaker 1: together kind of except for her head, which was never found.
Speaker 1: There were some other bits, some other bits, so I
Speaker 1: won't give you a detailed list. There were specific gender
Speaker 1: organs like the kini areas. Yeah, there's that. And also
Speaker 1: some of her internal organs were never found. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure her being a heroin addict, I'm pretty sure they
Speaker 1: were not sold for transplants. Probably not. But her hands
Speaker 1: luckily were intact, and so they were able to idea
Speaker 1: her through her fingerprints. The organs that were missing, were
Speaker 1: they the kind that you would transplant normally? I have
Speaker 1: no idea what organs were going, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1: I thought it was like some intestines, which we just
Speaker 1: learned apparently that's like a thing, but probably not. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought it was just kind of these weird and
Speaker 1: ocuuss like why would they be missing organs? But maybe not.
Speaker 1: I don't really know. And that's a good question. I mean,
Speaker 1: in the whole dissection thing that probably when you're busy
Speaker 1: cutting out the body, there's certain things that just sort
Speaker 1: of then this is going to be gross, but probably
Speaker 1: just sort of fall out. And so although at the
Speaker 1: same time that makes no sense because you would think
Speaker 1: you're just stuff them in the garbage bags. You're stuffing
Speaker 1: everything else into right. Well, but I mean some of
Speaker 1: the other body parts that were missing seemed like I mean,
Speaker 1: that seems more like intentional trophies, you know, as we're
Speaker 1: talking about again these like kind of bikini areas, um
Speaker 1: that we're missing. That seems like a trophy keep for
Speaker 1: somebody versus you know, the organ. So if you are,
Speaker 1: you know, just you've got some stuff in a pile
Speaker 1: over there. Maybe that just slipped in doubt or maybe
Speaker 1: the guy had hogs and I don't know, but then
Speaker 1: you would just feed all of it to the hogs,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you would? Right, they'll eat it all. Hogs only
Speaker 1: eat the finest liver and intestines and breast and whatever
Speaker 1: those bits. Okay, So anyway, now we've gotten to that. Oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, I wanted I wanted to thank Candice
Speaker 1: who suggested this for got Yeah sorry, yeah, sorry Candice.
Speaker 1: I should have said something earlier and wait until we
Speaker 1: were right in the middle of all the gross parts.
Speaker 1: But I do thank you for suggesting it, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure a lot of other our other Swedish listeners are
Speaker 1: probably mentioned it to at some point, So thanks to
Speaker 1: all of you too, Uh, well anyway, it says, you
Speaker 1: all know, it's one thing to murder somebody, but when
Speaker 1: you start chopping them up into pieces, well that gets
Speaker 1: people's attention. That's another thing entirely. Yeah, usually people would
Speaker 1: consider that to be beyond the pale. Ye. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: so this became a really big case in Sweden, and
Speaker 1: if you live in Sweden, I'm sure you've heard of it.
Speaker 1: It's apparently one of their biggest doneselve mysteries, especially especially
Speaker 1: in the like, you know, mid eighties. Yeah. I guess
Speaker 1: we're more used to that kind of stuff these days
Speaker 1: with the internet and TV and well, I mean just
Speaker 1: more that this case happened in the mid eighties, but
Speaker 1: it's still around and we'll still talk about it writing
Speaker 1: about it. But but as Steve said, it is called
Speaker 1: the cutting up murder. At least that's the sort of
Speaker 1: crude English translation of it. There's some very long Swedish word. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't ever like their long words, don't. And the
Speaker 1: Germans I feel really like shove them all together. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I might have missed it. You might have
Speaker 1: said it, but how how were they able to identify
Speaker 1: the body fingerprints? So her hands weren't I did find
Speaker 1: the hands. Yeah, okay, so yeah, at all they pieced
Speaker 1: it all together, everything went together, and yeah it was
Speaker 1: all the same body and fingerprints. Yeah, and then the
Speaker 1: tabloid showed up and oh yeah I got huge and
Speaker 1: that went. Yeah, I just went kind of crazy from there.
Speaker 1: They didn't inspire some famous books. Yeah, supposedly they are
Speaker 1: actually books written literally about this story. Documentaries were done.
Speaker 1: But also supposedly it's been claimed that a few famous
Speaker 1: Swedish writers like Stig Larson you know you're familiar with
Speaker 1: that guy, was inspired the tattoo. Yeah, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: I just recently saw the both both versions of that movie. Oh,
Speaker 1: I read the book. The book was good. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: watched the movie. I haven't gotten to either of those things.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but if somebody wasn't doing their research, yeah,
Speaker 1: because that was the big part of it, you're right,
Speaker 1: sorry now, But actually having seen both of those movies,
Speaker 1: I saw the original plus to Daniel Craig remake in English,
Speaker 1: and I consider myself to be an expert on Swedish
Speaker 1: society and culture. Should yeah, totally. I considered myself to
Speaker 1: be an expert on Swedish culture in society by because
Speaker 1: I've gone Twikia a couple of times. Oh there you go,
Speaker 1: I eat Swedish fish. I'm so sorry. Yeah, okay, Well,
Speaker 1: you know the one thing I noticed about Ikea though,
Speaker 1: is that when you go there, you know, it's that
Speaker 1: Swedish furniture looks exactly like American furniture. Yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: just harder to put together. Yeah, now, well that's because
Speaker 1: I was. It's just no, it's because American furniture is
Speaker 1: all I keia. I mean, averybody I know has Ikea
Speaker 1: in their house. Oh, back to our story. As Steve said,
Speaker 1: the tablets did go nuts over this. I was just
Speaker 1: showing Devon before we started recording a copy of one
Speaker 1: of the stories. You'll find a picture of it on Instagram. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's an so four weeks ago a yeah
Speaker 1: when this uh uh. And of course, this case also
Speaker 1: became a big cost for the women's rights groups because
Speaker 1: in Katrine Cain excuse me, became a symbol for the
Speaker 1: ill treatment of women in Swedish society, which I can't
Speaker 1: really comment because I've never been to Sweden, but I
Speaker 1: mean I would say there's some not to like go
Speaker 1: on a political soapbox necessarily or anything. But I would
Speaker 1: say that, yes, like there is a general lack of
Speaker 1: care for women who are put into situations like this,
Speaker 1: who particularly women who end up, you know, being in
Speaker 1: the sex working industry or sex trade. You know, there
Speaker 1: is that general kind of lack of not in this
Speaker 1: room certainly, but in society and general lack of kind
Speaker 1: of care of their own safety. Yeah. They they make
Speaker 1: convenient targets pure sure. I mean yeah often. I mean
Speaker 1: same with like women who are experiencing homelessness or anything
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, you know, women on the kind
Speaker 1: of fringe of society and men to certainly less a
Speaker 1: little bit, but men and women on the fringes of
Speaker 1: society do tend to be easy victims. Well, I was
Speaker 1: reading the other day some stat about, you know, sex
Speaker 1: workers in this type of situation you actually being used
Speaker 1: ter street walker, because that's put you in the most
Speaker 1: direct line of fire. But I was reading and I did.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what the number was for the you know,
Speaker 1: the percentage of likelihood of death, but it was I
Speaker 1: was like, that's not right. And then I walked away
Speaker 1: and I'm standing, I'm like, that's a really big number,
Speaker 1: like another reason to not go into that, particularly profession
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, but unfortunately area some people feel
Speaker 1: like that's their only option. Again, you know, certainly like
Speaker 1: drug addiction often pleays into that, and that there were
Speaker 1: certain certain societies like you know, I mean in Russia
Speaker 1: after the big collapse in the economy, it went all
Speaker 1: to hell, a lot of women turned to prostitution. And
Speaker 1: I mean, and we're talking like professional women started doing
Speaker 1: it stuff, you know what happens. But anyway, but I
Speaker 1: don't want to get down to Yeah, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna step up. But the other controversy is, of course,
Speaker 1: the trials. There were two trials about this. There were yeah,
Speaker 1: there were, Yeah, A couple of suspects were rustled up.
Speaker 1: They were put on trial for the murder. They were convicted,
Speaker 1: but the verge was overturned and that was that, except
Speaker 1: there was a huge outcry about the whole thing, and
Speaker 1: so they were put on trial again, and second time
Speaker 1: around they were acquitted. Um, and so they want on
Speaker 1: just to lead their lives, except their lives are kind
Speaker 1: of destroyed. But yeah, yeah, that's hard. That's I was
Speaker 1: going to say, like a public campaign like this is
Speaker 1: is almost impossible to overcome and to get a fair hearing,
Speaker 1: I mean, and even yeah, and even if it turns
Speaker 1: out that you are innocent, you know, there's kind of
Speaker 1: that guilty by public opinion situation that happens a lot
Speaker 1: these days, and it's kind of unfortunate. Yeah, but also
Speaker 1: maybe sometimes okay, well, it just depends on if they
Speaker 1: were guilty or not. But I can say, I can
Speaker 1: say and equivocally like having read a few of the
Speaker 1: tabloid stories about the murderers, if they were indeed murders,
Speaker 1: that even if they were guilty, the stuff that was
Speaker 1: said about them in the tabloids was just totally inflammatory.
Speaker 1: Beyond inflammatory things that were said, they were obviously not true.
Speaker 1: Obviously obviously they did. They were just they made these
Speaker 1: people out to be vampires and you know, mass murderers.
Speaker 1: Literally not he's not, he's not, Like, yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: but Joe was like saying, like, truly, again, if you
Speaker 1: go look our instagram, not to push too much, there's
Speaker 1: this article that's just like he was an actual vampire.
Speaker 1: Like that was the claim that they were making. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just like they were making them out to be
Speaker 1: these like yeah literally, yeah yeah, yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: could say that it's probably pretty hard to recover your
Speaker 1: reputation after something like that. Yeah, but this is still
Speaker 1: hotly debated. A lot of people thought that they and
Speaker 1: still think that they were guilty. Um, you know, of
Speaker 1: course the tabloids and but other people think they were railroaded. Well, anyway,
Speaker 1: let's take a look at the suspects. Yet, we got
Speaker 1: a lot of theories about this is one of those
Speaker 1: weird ones. We have a very short intro because the
Speaker 1: shorty story so small, but the theory section is the
Speaker 1: majority of it. Don't be confused here. We're not breaking
Speaker 1: right now story not yet. Okay, here we go. That's
Speaker 1: not it. It's like, oh, sorry, that was I was
Speaker 1: doing the What was the phenomena? Yep, that's the one
Speaker 1: I was doing. That's what I always do. Okay, So
Speaker 1: we got the music out of the way, alright, phenomena.
Speaker 1: All right, let's look at the theories here. So Chuppy.
Speaker 1: I haven't mentioned Chuppy for a while, you haven't. I
Speaker 1: recently did a board at work casual a m A
Speaker 1: on Twitter. You guys may may not have seen one
Speaker 1: of the number one most asked questions, was what did
Speaker 1: Chuppy ever do to Joe that he accuses him of
Speaker 1: like stuff all the time. And I was like, listen, nothing, okay,
Speaker 1: according to our response to the legal suit, nothing happened,
Speaker 1: and nothing every shall and we shall out officially blame
Speaker 1: him for anything never ever. No, no, I will tell
Speaker 1: you what happened is yeah, your goal. I don't think
Speaker 1: Chippy was involved. No, it wasn't. No, It's not not
Speaker 1: that at all. It's it's just, you know, when we're
Speaker 1: looking for a little filler, you know, we'll talk about Chippy,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. But also I just like his name.
Speaker 1: You know, he's got a cool name, Chippy, Yeah, Chip. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I want to like this sory, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I do like this sery. But well, okay, you know
Speaker 1: where I'm you know where I'm going here. Okay, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: How about the next one. Next theory, there's another theory
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, it turns out that from the
Speaker 1: body parts collected, they were never actually able to establish
Speaker 1: a cause of death. So it's not bullet wound or
Speaker 1: stab wound or the head. Yeah. But the hard part
Speaker 1: with that is, like somebody cut off her head, like
Speaker 1: that could have been the cause of death. They don't
Speaker 1: have the head. They don't have the head, so they
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Somebody could have like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's so many different things that could have happened to
Speaker 1: her body. Because they cut it up afterwards, it's hard
Speaker 1: to tell what happened. Yeah, I mean, so it's so technically, yes,
Speaker 1: they didn't have a cause of death. Yeah, basically diving,
Speaker 1: overdose and uh. And somebody decided to practice their dissection skills.
Speaker 1: They were not very good at it. Well, actually they
Speaker 1: were pretty good, and some people were really good. They
Speaker 1: got her into a bunch of little pieces. Yeah Mechlaxander
Speaker 1: said that it looked professional. Another another idea is that
Speaker 1: it was just somebody that somebody comes across the dead
Speaker 1: body and think, hey, this is what a great troll.
Speaker 1: This will be. Well, we'll chop the body up in
Speaker 1: the bits, put it in garbage bags, and we'll leave
Speaker 1: it distributed around town and people will go nuts. So rude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of find that hard to believe too. That's
Speaker 1: a pretty extreme troll. I could picture somebody doing that,
Speaker 1: except for the part about getting thrown in prison for
Speaker 1: many years. If you get busted for doing it, and
Speaker 1: you always you always make this mistake of assuming that
Speaker 1: people think out repercussions of their actions. I mean, logan, Paul, Paul,
Speaker 1: do you not know about this? Which is that use
Speaker 1: a YouTube quote unquote YouTube sensation who thought it would
Speaker 1: be cool to go into the Japanese suicide forest and
Speaker 1: film a recently suicide body idea. Oh no, I don't
Speaker 1: remember this, but I can only imagine how badly that
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, really really bad. And how did the Japanese
Speaker 1: feel about They're like, this is an atrocity, Like I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: basically they were like, we would love to prosecute you
Speaker 1: if if you know, if America would extra that you,
Speaker 1: we'd love to prosecute you. And America is like, now,
Speaker 1: but this just happened, and YouTube just no, he didn't
Speaker 1: kill anybody, but like it's very port but it's it's
Speaker 1: the same sort of thing, right, It's like profiting off
Speaker 1: of getting something off of a dead body, the same
Speaker 1: thing as like kind of cutting up I guess maybe not,
Speaker 1: but you know, almost the same thing as cutting up
Speaker 1: a dead body to just like get a bit, not
Speaker 1: just get your jollies, but to just watch everybody else
Speaker 1: lose their heads over it's what happened here. But literally,
Speaker 1: this is not a joke. Yeah, I didn't make the
Speaker 1: head and shoulders above the restaurant. Okay, let's keep going. Okay, so,
Speaker 1: but so that's what you gotta put that into the
Speaker 1: realm of the possible but extremely unlikely Okay, yeah, super unlikely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course dragons, Dungeons and dragons, it's like their props. No,
Speaker 1: not like this. We've proven that that whole thing is
Speaker 1: not real. No, Dungeons and Dragons players do like their props,
Speaker 1: but the only reason they really like their props is
Speaker 1: because you buy them and then you get to paint
Speaker 1: them yourselves. That's them all. Yeah, okay, that's how that
Speaker 1: works with right, Okay, let's keep going because I just
Speaker 1: emails from this episode, have the time, Yeah, now we don't. So,
Speaker 1: but even though I considered a possibility that she was
Speaker 1: not even murdered, she died of natural like an o,
Speaker 1: it's unlikely. It does seem unlikely. Yeah, it seems very unlikely.
Speaker 1: But ever did happen? Whoever actually did it? You know,
Speaker 1: you could have come forward and says, hey, by the way,
Speaker 1: you're all overreacting and you're putting these guys on trial.
Speaker 1: I chopped the body up, but she was already dead.
Speaker 1: Of course that guy didn't come forward and say that
Speaker 1: out of your mind to do that. Let's move on
Speaker 1: to our next theory. This is an actual person whose
Speaker 1: name was Stanislav Gonerka, who was a Polish person, I think,
Speaker 1: a Polish immigrant to Sweden, and we're just going to
Speaker 1: call him Stan because I can't possibly try to pronounce
Speaker 1: I can pronounce it, sadly, it's just last thing that's
Speaker 1: kind of a still. I just want to call him Stan.
Speaker 1: I don't know Stan. Yeah, we'll call him Stan. But
Speaker 1: Stan was a butcher by profession. He had been locked
Speaker 1: up in a mental institution for about ten years because well,
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four he murdered a young woman by
Speaker 1: strangling her and then he cut his kind of body
Speaker 1: up in the small piece is put in garbage bags,
Speaker 1: um and very similar to and the head that he
Speaker 1: was never found. Katherine, Yeah it was. I think I
Speaker 1: think Katherine is a correct pronunciation. But so this does
Speaker 1: sound like an awfully familiar it does. Yeah, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: you may or may not have an answer to this. Question,
Speaker 1: why is he put in a menstal mental institution instead
Speaker 1: of jail. I guess they must have decided maybe his
Speaker 1: his his attorney might have pleaded insanity. So it turns
Speaker 1: out that's not so common. He was in the seventies,
Speaker 1: even in the seventies, and it's another country and we
Speaker 1: don't know exactly how their system works. I'll just say
Speaker 1: that it turns out the whole like insanity thing is
Speaker 1: not so common because it out that falls apart. Well,
Speaker 1: either it falls apart or the sentence of insanity is
Speaker 1: like way worse. That's that's the problem, doesn't It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean they just let you go, because if they put
Speaker 1: you an insane asylum and then somehow you have to
Speaker 1: prove you're not insane, which is that's hard. That's probably
Speaker 1: harder than convincing the board. Yeah, from but I'm not insane.
Speaker 1: I'm not insane. For the next for you guys have
Speaker 1: heard that thing, right, there was the journalist. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that our listeners have heard this, but I'll just briefly,
Speaker 1: like high level, there was a journalist at one point
Speaker 1: in like the late eighteen hundreds who was like, I
Speaker 1: just want to prove how corrupt the insane asylum industry
Speaker 1: is by getting myself insane person committed to the insane.
Speaker 1: So she pretended to be insane, got committed, and then
Speaker 1: as soon as she was there, started like acting like
Speaker 1: a normal, totally sane person, and they were like, no,
Speaker 1: you're still super insane and kept her. It took like
Speaker 1: her publisher had to come in, like five different people
Speaker 1: had to come in. It was a very long process
Speaker 1: to get her out. But ye know, it turns out, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that don't do that. Guys, don't pretend to be
Speaker 1: insane to get admitted to insane asylum. But the whole
Speaker 1: you know, in that whole thing, at least here in
Speaker 1: America that they do process component of it as a
Speaker 1: little better than it used to be. But in the
Speaker 1: old days, it used to be scarily easily easy to
Speaker 1: commit somebody. Oh yeah, that was that was especially women,
Speaker 1: especially women. It was super easy to get women exactly,
Speaker 1: And so because you were upset about something, you were hysterical.
Speaker 1: Rough anyway, So he was he spent time in instead
Speaker 1: of a prison, Okay, although I imagine the psychiatric hospital
Speaker 1: wasn't much more fun and ten years either places probably
Speaker 1: pretty rough, probably so he got out in April four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, when was our our victim murdered? Sometimes
Speaker 1: sometime after June tenth, so, and I'm assuming it's the
Speaker 1: police seem to believe that murder took place very shortly
Speaker 1: after that. It must have been by the state of
Speaker 1: the parts of the would assume, Yeah, they were able
Speaker 1: to establish that, but really, I mean, she could have
Speaker 1: been held somewhere for a week or so or two maybe,
Speaker 1: but you would ready to discern that the week or
Speaker 1: two's difference after that much time has elapsed at the
Speaker 1: body parts have been Yeah, they've been all sitting around.
Speaker 1: Imagine that. Yeah, I would imagine I and of course
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on this at all, that probably
Speaker 1: bodies deteriorated at a different rate when they're a whole
Speaker 1: body versus chopped up in the small pieces. It's like
Speaker 1: it's crushed ice versus an entire block of ice. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, yeah, it's more like you know, you
Speaker 1: wherever there is exposure, Yeah, you're going to decompose exposed surface.
Speaker 1: That's what crushed ice. Blood. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes sense now, but context h yeah, well yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: Stan was it looks this kind of looks bad for Stan.
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes it look like a pretty good suspect,
Speaker 1: I would say, I mean, wouldn't you think he gets
Speaker 1: out of it, gets out of like the mental institution
Speaker 1: and somebody dies right after that, just like the old
Speaker 1: the last one died. The police did take a look
Speaker 1: at him because he was it turns out a regular
Speaker 1: down there at the red light district. I already told
Speaker 1: you what it was called earlier, but that's so hard
Speaker 1: to protect. Yeah, he had actually he'd been seen there
Speaker 1: hanging out there in June when Catarine disappeared. Uh, he
Speaker 1: was known to the police as a dangerous person, violent person,
Speaker 1: violent dangerous person. Yeah, apparently, And according to Swedish newspapers.
Speaker 1: And this is not just the tabloids, but according to
Speaker 1: the newspapers, his name was found in Catherine's diary. Again
Speaker 1: with the diary. Again with the diary. Apparently it was
Speaker 1: one of our one of our coworkers or colleagues actually
Speaker 1: gave it to police. Apparently it's disappeared now. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: like in our the last episode, we also talked about
Speaker 1: a diary being like the only thing that linked somebody
Speaker 1: to the crime. So yeah, yeah, Hank, I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to start keeping a diary. Yeah, Stephen Devon again, you
Speaker 1: stop it, dear Diary. It's weird they keep coming back,
Speaker 1: dear Diary. They joked about taking out a life insurance
Speaker 1: policy on me der diary, going shooting with Devon and
Speaker 1: Steve tomorrow. Don't do it. Please document all that stuff.
Speaker 1: What else about Stand they ruled about as a suspects
Speaker 1: pretty early on, and nobody seems to know why. I know,
Speaker 1: at least I've heard pretty conclusively that he did not
Speaker 1: actually have an alibi for the way where he was
Speaker 1: at at that time period, and so it wasn't the
Speaker 1: alibi apparently that ruled him out. So I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what exactly caused police to rule him out as a suspect.
Speaker 1: I thought at one point, at least in the last
Speaker 1: decade or so, they had acquired skin samples, does this
Speaker 1: sound correct samples to try and conclusively prove that it
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't involved. But that's one of those things.
Speaker 1: It's here's the flash in the pan news report that
Speaker 1: never gets followed up on. Yeah, the last I read
Speaker 1: about that was an article that was published in two
Speaker 1: thousand ten, and as of that time, the issue was
Speaker 1: still up in the air as to whether this these
Speaker 1: tissue samples that was taken after his death at work
Speaker 1: conclusively or not conclusively linking him to the murder. Nothing.
Speaker 1: I feel like i've again like since we don't really
Speaker 1: know how it is that he ended up in a
Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital versus uh, actual like jail. Yeah, I almost
Speaker 1: wonder if that had a little bit to do with
Speaker 1: the police kind of dismissing him. I don't know what
Speaker 1: his problem was. That he would get drunk and become
Speaker 1: super violent. That was, that was, and that's appears to
Speaker 1: be what happened in seventy four, And the girls in
Speaker 1: that area in four appeared to recognize or at least
Speaker 1: two have suffered his behavior enough that they were shutting
Speaker 1: him out. Is what I've seen in some places, because
Speaker 1: you know, you get out, you're free. Let's celebrate. I
Speaker 1: get drunk, I get brutal. Let's go find a girl
Speaker 1: and beat the holy crap out of her and have
Speaker 1: a good time to break and where it gets around
Speaker 1: among the among the sex workers prostitutes, that you stay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you kind of like you look out for your own right,
Speaker 1: you stay like, yeah, you stay away from that job.
Speaker 1: As we know, Katherine was was willing to take on
Speaker 1: that kind of because she was desperate for money. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't really know, but I don't know. I tend
Speaker 1: to trust, however, like for better for worse, I tend
Speaker 1: to trust the police that they must have had some reason.
Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I think they might have
Speaker 1: ruled them out as they might have found a better suspect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: be suspects, so it might. It might well be that
Speaker 1: they didn't rule him out for great reasons so much.
Speaker 1: It was just they just pursued other aspects, somebody they
Speaker 1: like better, and so they just dropped stand. And as
Speaker 1: for him, he died as you as you were said.
Speaker 1: They took some tissue samples before they buried him or
Speaker 1: cremated they did whatever they did with his body. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so those are still around. They might be helpful
Speaker 1: someday in solving the crime. So far they haven't been.
Speaker 1: But anyway, well, we'll set up aside as a as
Speaker 1: a possible theory for our purp and we'll move on
Speaker 1: to another purp here. But first before we do that,
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Speaker 1: and we're back. Okay. Our next theory or suspect A
Speaker 1: man named Tete Harm. Yeah, great name harm there. So
Speaker 1: it's it's like, yeah, were the a there's a nem
Speaker 1: out so in the Swedish pronunciation rules, I have no
Speaker 1: idea what I've seen his name spelled so many ways
Speaker 1: that I was unsure. Yeah, so it might be had
Speaker 1: him or whole him or something. I'm not sure, probably
Speaker 1: not just harm. Probably that's the way. That's the way
Speaker 1: it's spelled in pronunction in the English pronunciation. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about but we'll just harm. Uh. Well. He was
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologist who was working at the Carley Instant,
Speaker 1: the Carolinska Institute. Name sounds familiar. That's that's near where
Speaker 1: the initial bag of body parts was found in Stockholm.
Speaker 1: That was, in of course, ur the body parts. The
Speaker 1: second bag was actually found less than a mile away,
Speaker 1: as I said, And it turns out his the Carolinska
Speaker 1: Institute was in between those two places, in the in
Speaker 1: between in the it was bracketed by those two places. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and physically, and he was a consultant sometimes with the
Speaker 1: police on murders and suspicious deaths because his specialty, that
Speaker 1: makes sense, the forensic pathologists. The specialty was death by strangulation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was kind of talking like a Dexter situation. I
Speaker 1: kind of like that, or well, when the tabloids trying
Speaker 1: to make it make it as kind of a Hannibal
Speaker 1: electric kind of situation where he was like this, he
Speaker 1: totally helped the police solve crimes. He was brilliant and
Speaker 1: solved many, many murders. But it turned out, you know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't because he was constantly making killing behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: That he was busy slaughtering people left and right himself,
Speaker 1: according to the tabloids, not necessarily in real life. He
Speaker 1: just realized, I never finished Dexter. I didn't either. I
Speaker 1: stopped watching like mid I think it's made it like season.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this matter. I'm sorry, that was just
Speaker 1: the train of thought. I can I can tell you
Speaker 1: how it ends, Okay, well and just go back and
Speaker 1: watch it. Actually what happens as he kills everybody. So
Speaker 1: that's about the end of it and then analyzes their blitzpatter. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so back to teit harm. Uh. The fact that he
Speaker 1: was he had this sort of morbid specialty didn't really
Speaker 1: play well with the public, be as you can imagine. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: And what happened is that essentially somebody called the police
Speaker 1: after the body was found, it was all chopped up,
Speaker 1: somebody called the police. Turns out it was his former
Speaker 1: father in law who called the police, yeah, and said
Speaker 1: suggested that he would be a viable suspector before that,
Speaker 1: he was not actually on the police's radar at all.
Speaker 1: The reason his father is his father in law apparently
Speaker 1: never liked him to begin with. But then his wife's
Speaker 1: name was Anne Catherine when he was and she died
Speaker 1: in two she was found strangled to death in their bedroom. Officially, yeah,
Speaker 1: well she was she officially she hanged herself. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: as often happens with amateur amateur hangings, people wind up
Speaker 1: strangling themselves death by Yeah, if you do it right,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you snapped the snap your neck.
Speaker 1: But if you don't, well you choked to death, which
Speaker 1: was horrible. Yeah, well, it definitely would prolong the situation
Speaker 1: for a bit. Yeah, So she was found hanging from
Speaker 1: the side of her bed with the quarter on her neck,
Speaker 1: and uh, it looked as one of the things that
Speaker 1: was odd about it is she was, according to the press,
Speaker 1: dressed up for a night out, I'm sorry, hanging from
Speaker 1: the side of her bed. I think that this was not,
Speaker 1: you know, like the four poster bed kind of thing,
Speaker 1: is how I picturing. This had to be, you know,
Speaker 1: something that had the tall corner posts and maybe even
Speaker 1: the crossbars up high like that kind of bed, like
Speaker 1: a princess bed. A lot of a lot of suicides.
Speaker 1: By hanging to there, they're actually not dangling over the ground.
Speaker 1: They're actually partly contacting the ground even right well when
Speaker 1: we've talked about that, but I imagine that if she
Speaker 1: was in a situation where she didn't break her neck
Speaker 1: and she was God, we've gone over this so many times.
Speaker 1: If she is, you know, she's strangling, any purchase is purchased,
Speaker 1: So I have to I got a feel that it
Speaker 1: was something that was above head high from Yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh that or her husband killed her. It could have
Speaker 1: been actually because she had apparently she was divorcing him,
Speaker 1: which is often considered a murder motive. But what you
Speaker 1: said was, you know, everybody said, well, she was dressed
Speaker 1: up for a night on the town. But it is
Speaker 1: not uncommon for people to say I would like to
Speaker 1: look my best on my last day. Sure I put
Speaker 1: put on all the makeup, do your hair up right,
Speaker 1: put on your best dress, and then for yourself. Sure absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, but that did seem a little strange, and
Speaker 1: of course the papers printed that which didn't look things
Speaker 1: look so good for Teethe harm police also said that
Speaker 1: his behavior at the time seemed a little callous, but
Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, they were divorcing and it
Speaker 1: might have been all the all the fun had gone
Speaker 1: out of the relationship, and so maybe he was. He's
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologist, though he is around death. That's true too.
Speaker 1: To be to have thick enough skin to be around
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff all the time and have it
Speaker 1: not bother you probably means that you have the equivalent
Speaker 1: of the British stiff upper lip. And so when it's
Speaker 1: your wife that dies, nobody knows what you're feeling because
Speaker 1: you were just putting on your workface. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, just I guess I would say, like
Speaker 1: we're not right. These forensic just we don't go see
Speaker 1: dead bodies all the time. But we talked about death
Speaker 1: a lot. But I would say that having a recent
Speaker 1: death and experiencing a recent death of somebody that was
Speaker 1: close to me, it's totally different. You know, it's totally
Speaker 1: different to this person. It's like, oh, that's just a
Speaker 1: dead body. That's you know, whatever. Not to be callous,
Speaker 1: but that's that's whatever. To like somebody that you have
Speaker 1: an emotional connection, whether it be kind of like tenuous
Speaker 1: and crappy. This guy wasn't a ghoul. I mean, he
Speaker 1: may very well, but it's hard to tell. There's such
Speaker 1: a spectrum there right where it's like either I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But again, if it were the police
Speaker 1: who worked closely with him saying I don't know, it
Speaker 1: seemed like he was really unaffected by it, it would
Speaker 1: seem like they would know what unaffected by it would
Speaker 1: mean the police were really after this guy too. So
Speaker 1: that's that's going to color. Some people's recollections often change
Speaker 1: in retro often quite often. Yeah, that's that's fair. And
Speaker 1: again it's hard to say. I mean, people act differently
Speaker 1: understanding situations like this, So hard to say if that
Speaker 1: means much of anything, but that was definitely counted as
Speaker 1: kind of a reason to be a little suspicious of them.
Speaker 1: But anyway, there in the in the end, there was
Speaker 1: really no evidence of murders, so it was declared a
Speaker 1: suicide and the whole thing was dropped. But of course, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the in laws didn't forget it. Of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so and so the father in law did call
Speaker 1: the police, and that's one of course, he got on
Speaker 1: their radar and they did a little research and it
Speaker 1: ever turned out they found that he likes apparently violent pornography,
Speaker 1: which I'm not so sure what that means. That could
Speaker 1: be in somebody that means, yeah, that's a whole range.
Speaker 1: This is pre internet, remember, so it's not as if
Speaker 1: you they can check your browsing history you you buy it.
Speaker 1: In that day and age, it would be a tape, yea.
Speaker 1: So he might have had two pornos and one of
Speaker 1: them was pretty rough and tumble, right. But and then
Speaker 1: that's where I would say, like in an internet age, right,
Speaker 1: like we all do that like click through, click through,
Speaker 1: click through, right where you just like find yourselves in
Speaker 1: this like in the spiral. Oh my God, look at that.
Speaker 1: That was awful what it's going on. But in this
Speaker 1: day and age like that was, you would have to
Speaker 1: seek that out. Well maybe, like I mean probably listen.
Speaker 1: I have seen plenty of porno VHS tapes, and they
Speaker 1: don't always give away that they are all about bondage
Speaker 1: and beatings. They may look like the run of the mill,
Speaker 1: naked people going at it, and then you get home
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh god, I paid forty dollars for this,
Speaker 1: and they don't let you return the day. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that you've just admitted spending board of dollars on
Speaker 1: I just stole him. I don't know what they cost. Yeah, OK,
Speaker 1: So anyway, the you know, I know, they maybe found
Speaker 1: some porn in his possessions when they searched his place,
Speaker 1: or maybe they just talked to associates and found this
Speaker 1: stuff out. I don't know, and it might be too,
Speaker 1: I don't know if they did find some porn tapes
Speaker 1: in his house. Did they find one or two? Did
Speaker 1: they find so? But he also didn't He also liked
Speaker 1: to engage with prostitutes. He did, he did, he was
Speaker 1: that he he actually when he was when he spoke
Speaker 1: to police. They asked him if he knew, if you
Speaker 1: knew the problem, if you knet Catherine or any of
Speaker 1: the other prostitutes, and he said he'd only done it
Speaker 1: once and that was after he had an argument with
Speaker 1: his wife and things were kind of bad, So he'd
Speaker 1: gone to a prostitute once. But when they showed us,
Speaker 1: they showed his picture along with some other suspected perps,
Speaker 1: to the prostitutes in the area down there, and a
Speaker 1: bunch of them, like four dozen picked his picture out.
Speaker 1: So apparently it turns out he was kind of a
Speaker 1: regular down there. Yea, why to them? But those women
Speaker 1: really knew who he was apparently did. Yeah, well, and
Speaker 1: that makes it that really does point the finger at him.
Speaker 1: All these people are saying, oh, yeah, I know he's
Speaker 1: down here all the time. Well, it doesn't point the finger,
Speaker 1: but sort of a finger. Yeah, And it puts him
Speaker 1: in proximity to how do you say her name? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it puts him in in the area where she was
Speaker 1: known to hang out. And obviously police don't like being
Speaker 1: lied to. They're very twitchy about that, kind of which
Speaker 1: is weird. Yeah, they don't seem to feel that they
Speaker 1: have to tell me the truth. I call the FBI
Speaker 1: and asked him for information. They won't tell me squat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. The FBI agent that's a signed
Speaker 1: to watch me through my camera has done like pretty
Speaker 1: sad lately. But you know, they have to keep cycling
Speaker 1: a new what's for me? Because they either get committed
Speaker 1: or they commit suicide. Yeah, because they're bored out of
Speaker 1: her mind. Oh my god. All this guy does is
Speaker 1: talked to his freaking cat. Oh anyway, that's the the
Speaker 1: FBI equivalent of Siberia is having to listen to me.
Speaker 1: But he was arrested when they found all this stuff
Speaker 1: about him. He was arrested in December. His house was searched.
Speaker 1: They did find a knife. Oh my god, I knife.
Speaker 1: What the hell? What was he doing with a knife? No? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and no respectable human with a knife. No. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: know a knife, no, nor would I have one. But
Speaker 1: it's designated only to cut up produce tiny little pairing knife,
Speaker 1: isn't it. There's just not a giant knife. It's just
Speaker 1: a weapon of murder. In my in my opinion, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, there's nothing you can do with a knife
Speaker 1: that you cannot do with a gun. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: why would you have a knife? Really? Yeah, why I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, this is why we don't eat it.
Speaker 1: There maybe some bullet fragments in there. Sorry, I gotta go, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. Prepare of the state. Yeah, okay, it's tenderized,
Speaker 1: all right, let's go. But there really actually was not
Speaker 1: any evidence, so, you know, even the knife, the incriminatory knife,
Speaker 1: there was no evidence. They had to let him go.
Speaker 1: And maybe he did it, maybe not. So again, let's
Speaker 1: summarize the arguments for his guilt. He'd probably come into
Speaker 1: contact with Katherine at some point, you know, since he
Speaker 1: had hung out down there. He might because they were
Speaker 1: in the same neighborhoods looking to exchange the same things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so he may well have had done business. What's there?
Speaker 1: Even as a pathologist, he would have the tools and
Speaker 1: to know how to chop her body up. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: was an expert on strangulation, which might have been the
Speaker 1: cause of death, although we don't really know that. I mean,
Speaker 1: but I mean it could have been blunt force trauma
Speaker 1: or a gunshot to the head. But and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, if he's the expert, the world's
Speaker 1: leading expert on strangulation. Does that mean you have to
Speaker 1: strangle your murder victims or would you consider it? Why
Speaker 1: you just shoot him in the head? Yeah, how that
Speaker 1: would that work? No? I mean, knowing how to do
Speaker 1: something and wanting to do something are two very different things.
Speaker 1: It's just like saying that he knows how to knows
Speaker 1: all about something doesn't mean that he's also the one
Speaker 1: that turns around them and slices them up into itsy
Speaker 1: bitsy pieces. Yeah. Like, I know, I know people who
Speaker 1: are butchers for example. You know that doesn't mean they're murderers.
Speaker 1: And I was going to say that, um, I went
Speaker 1: to school for costumes. Sorry. My freshman year, we were
Speaker 1: doing a play that required the distressing of a butcher's apron,
Speaker 1: and my costume resign pressor for whatever reason, was like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you distress us? And I was like sure. She's like,
Speaker 1: I want some bloods better on there, and I was
Speaker 1: like okay, and like did something. She was like, how
Speaker 1: do you know what jugular splatter looks like? Though? And
Speaker 1: I was like I don't. I was just putting bloods. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to ask you to do that ever, again,
Speaker 1: said I had no idea. I just started cutting on
Speaker 1: the home stude. This is what came out, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: why she's not in that industry anymore. Yeah, well next time,
Speaker 1: you know what to say, right, Yeah. But and there
Speaker 1: was one other thing is that they talked. Of course,
Speaker 1: they're going to always talk to everybody, you know, colleagues, acquaintances, friends.
Speaker 1: A lot of people apparently, including some of the women
Speaker 1: down the red light districts, said they didn't like him.
Speaker 1: I thought he was kind of scary and creepy. But
Speaker 1: then again, you know, you know, I feel like you
Speaker 1: can't discount that gut feeling that people have about people,
Speaker 1: you know, but you also can't rely. You can't when
Speaker 1: you're being pushed on by the police to scumberg. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think I think it's like it's that weird,
Speaker 1: like you can use that to fuel who you might investigate.
Speaker 1: Everybody been influencing, Yeah, I mean, I think if everybody
Speaker 1: who you're interviewing says, no, he seemed really creepy and weird,
Speaker 1: you might go with that suspect more. It would make sense,
Speaker 1: it would say, would it would probably influence your investigation
Speaker 1: just a little bit of all these people are have
Speaker 1: a bad feeling about this guy. The problem with he
Speaker 1: harm is he he's what I would consider a victim
Speaker 1: of what somebody wrote to us today in our timeline,
Speaker 1: not when this podcast released. Timeline um is the phenomenon
Speaker 1: of locking in and locking out, locking in on your
Speaker 1: subject and therefore locking out all other information that might
Speaker 1: prove that that's wrong. All they care about is whatever
Speaker 1: a little factoid fits their theory, right, Oh, this beautiful?
Speaker 1: That No, that doesn't matter. This yes, this, yes, No,
Speaker 1: that's the rest of that is all garbage. Get it
Speaker 1: out of here. I know, I mean because that's and
Speaker 1: definitely I tend to do the same thing, and like
Speaker 1: even on our podcast, I tend to pay more focused
Speaker 1: attention on the things that confirmed the theory that I have. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if I get of course, if I get enough information,
Speaker 1: then well I will change up my theory. I'm not
Speaker 1: that bad. I hope that, you know. Definitely, you know
Speaker 1: things that come to my engine that makes me right.
Speaker 1: I recently come an infographic that I'll show I'll share
Speaker 1: with you guys later, but it was all of these
Speaker 1: different kind of biases that we have that are underlying yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting to kind of think about, like,
Speaker 1: apparently people also give bias to like if the information
Speaker 1: is more recent, they give more weight to it, which
Speaker 1: is crazy, but that's true apparently, you know. And then
Speaker 1: also you look for the information that will confirm what
Speaker 1: you believe. It's confirmation bias. And yeah, there's certainly areas
Speaker 1: where the most recent information is the best, like say
Speaker 1: market economics or real estate, you know, but science. Yeah,
Speaker 1: according that, we're talking about our vampire doctor doctor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's see what else do you got beside him being creepy?
Speaker 1: What else? Of course, the body parts were found close
Speaker 1: to where he worked. Every good idiot knows, dump the
Speaker 1: body parts by your job, yea, just on your way
Speaker 1: to work. Just check him out the car with that.
Speaker 1: That's what I do with apple cores all the time him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we got so that's all the time. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: the weekly World Wound News, so you've probably heard of them.
Speaker 1: They're they're a pretty respectable tabloid, and they in April
Speaker 1: they probablyshed an article about him, and they came up
Speaker 1: with some extra information. They called him the mad vampire doc.
Speaker 1: And you guys have seen the article, Yeah, said that
Speaker 1: he had committed at least six other quote vampire slayings
Speaker 1: unquote besides cataline um, and they were definitely vampire. He
Speaker 1: had secrets. According to them, he had a secret statue
Speaker 1: of twenty human brains in his freezer at home. So
Speaker 1: I appreciate that you were including this for the comic
Speaker 1: relief of Oh my god, the Weekly World News. But
Speaker 1: this is this is just such slander as garden. Oh yeah, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: but I thought I just tossed in so you get
Speaker 1: a sort of a flavor for how nuts this case can.
Speaker 1: It is a great example of how far this thing
Speaker 1: went off. I read uh comments from some certain Sweedish
Speaker 1: citizens who said they considered this case to been a
Speaker 1: national embarrassment for the way the police handled the trial
Speaker 1: and everything, and then the way they built their case.
Speaker 1: His teeth and somebody else We're going to find out
Speaker 1: about here in a moment. Let's go there. Yeah, here's
Speaker 1: what But here's what the Weekly World News said about this.
Speaker 1: He uh about Catherine, and they said he lured her
Speaker 1: back home or to his morgue and then decapitated her
Speaker 1: with the power saw and then invited a friend over
Speaker 1: to quote join him in a banquet of human flesh
Speaker 1: and blood unquote, and then they retired to their separate confidence.
Speaker 1: Yeah apparently, uh, and then they did. About a year later,
Speaker 1: they published another article saying that one of the TETs
Speaker 1: victims had risen from the dead was on the brink
Speaker 1: of becoming a vampire like him because she was a zombie,
Speaker 1: but she was an upgrade to vampire status had enough
Speaker 1: hit points. Yeah, and so so anyway, so he's a vampire. Okay,
Speaker 1: we got that, all right, So well, let's let's go
Speaker 1: on to our next theory. Next purp or purpose this
Speaker 1: this purpose, this is uh teeth harm and Thomas og
Speaker 1: this is like they Yeah, so nobody's saying that. Nobody
Speaker 1: seems to be saying that Algan committed the murders by himself.
Speaker 1: But some people have said, like for example, the World
Speaker 1: News weekly World News thinks that he was sort of
Speaker 1: an evil sidekick to Yeah, that kind of side were
Speaker 1: doing it. So they knew each other. They had worked together.
Speaker 1: They were both doctors, was a general practitioner, and they
Speaker 1: worked together for about a year and a half and
Speaker 1: a hospital in Stockholm, and so they knew each other that.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were besties, but they had known
Speaker 1: each other from work and stuff. I think they might
Speaker 1: have been blood blood brothers. Okay, alright, come on, come on,
Speaker 1: let's get so. If you remember that that article I
Speaker 1: mentioned a few minutes ago, Thomas Thomas Algan is the
Speaker 1: friend who was invited over to feast on even on
Speaker 1: human flesh, and he was the dude. Yeah, and it's funny.
Speaker 1: In the article he managed to this spell not just
Speaker 1: his first name, was his last name. Also. They misspelled
Speaker 1: it they both names. Well, that's a way to avoid
Speaker 1: getting a charge of slander. What it wasn't you we
Speaker 1: were talking. I'm kind of surprised they didn't get charged.
Speaker 1: I bet you they did. Their lawyers said, don't spell
Speaker 1: that guy's name correctly, so people will correct it in
Speaker 1: their minds, but we cannot directly be accused of doing that.
Speaker 1: How the Weekly World News isn't constantly getting slander suits.
Speaker 1: I have no idea boy at this point should own
Speaker 1: that place magic maam, Yeah, that's anyway. Sorry, that's okay,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a question for So why does Thomas
Speaker 1: A well he was when it was arrested. In eighty four,
Speaker 1: the papers published that a young doctor had been a
Speaker 1: rested as a suspect Thomas Elegan was separated from his wife,
Speaker 1: Christina at the time, and they had a young daughter
Speaker 1: who was about two years old, who was unnamed in
Speaker 1: the press, So we will call her. What do you
Speaker 1: think Jane? Yeah, Jane Doe, Sally, Jane Doe. Sally, Jane Doe.
Speaker 1: You like Jane do color Jane Doe? So they were there,
Speaker 1: was said, separated, says, you know, these things often can
Speaker 1: turn a little bit ugly with separations, and especially when Yeah,
Speaker 1: so she had been claiming that Thomas had molested Jane Doe,
Speaker 1: the daughter, and he had been investigated for this. And
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. How old was the daughter again? She was
Speaker 1: I think at the time that the actual allegations were made,
Speaker 1: she was about a year and a half old. And
Speaker 1: then by seventeen seventeen months, yeah, seventeen eighteen muchs And
Speaker 1: I think by the time that was arrested in Christmas
Speaker 1: or exe me in December four, she would have been
Speaker 1: about two, about two. But yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you said that before. I just yeah, to clarify used
Speaker 1: of molesting his two year old daughter. Yeah, he was,
Speaker 1: and they found no evidence of it. Yeah, but it's investigated,
Speaker 1: they decided there was no evidence, They decided that charges
Speaker 1: were unfounded, and then they they there was just another
Speaker 1: ugly divorce. Yea. They decided to take no further action. Um.
Speaker 1: But then after got arrested Christina Hears. That's that a
Speaker 1: young doctor had been arrested in this incredibly notorious murder.
Speaker 1: She called the police and just and just said, hey,
Speaker 1: did you did you arrest Teete Harms? He the guy?
Speaker 1: The police apparently confirmed it. Well, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: good They're just really bad A thousand here there's okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I don't know, I mean, like a little bit.
Speaker 1: I feel like if somebody called and like if I
Speaker 1: called it an investigation and she has as a public citizen,
Speaker 1: she has no there's no reason to disclose that to
Speaker 1: her until such, I mean, she's proven to be involved.
Speaker 1: But like if I called and I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: did you're a Steve in this? They would probably why
Speaker 1: are you asking? What is your involvement? What's your relationship?
Speaker 1: Like there would be a whole bunch of stuff and
Speaker 1: you'd have to prove good reason. But maybe maybe she said,
Speaker 1: well I know his accomplice, and they said then yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that's what it was, because and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: did you arrested for this? And they were like, why
Speaker 1: do you know? And I was like, well, because I
Speaker 1: know Joe the accomplice. They were like, then, yeah, we
Speaker 1: did well. Since we've left Logictown, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: a nap, let me know. And we we get back
Speaker 1: into the room about a page and half away. Whatever
Speaker 1: the circumstances of this whole thing where the police essentially
Speaker 1: confirmed it to her, and we don't know, like I said,
Speaker 1: Devin might she might have called in and said I've
Speaker 1: got information you might need. You got it? We don't know.
Speaker 1: So she fingers the the X as being involved. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and it turns out she and she had met
Speaker 1: teat a few years before when Thomas brought him home
Speaker 1: for dinner, and apparently she taken an instant dislike to him,
Speaker 1: and so she was not because if he could bathe
Speaker 1: in the meat loaf, probably yeah, yeah, just maybe he
Speaker 1: spent the whole dinner just talking about strangulation or something.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that he necessarily had a winning personality,
Speaker 1: but probably not. If this many people didn't like him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't think it was right in December anyfore,
Speaker 1: but not too long after that, Christina went to the
Speaker 1: police and said that her daughter, Jane Doe, it was
Speaker 1: eighteen months old at the time of the murder, was
Speaker 1: saying stuff that indicated to her that she was present
Speaker 1: when Cataline's body had been cut up, and by this
Speaker 1: part of the story is this thing just keeps going
Speaker 1: further and further off the rails for me, Like just yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is not this this this investigation did
Speaker 1: not really go well. Yeah, and it's hard for me
Speaker 1: with like two year old they say, I mean, like
Speaker 1: the kid sings Mommy and daddy say all, it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily that. It's just like there's a lot of and
Speaker 1: we haven't done shows on this per se because I
Speaker 1: know you have a good reason feel about this situation.
Speaker 1: But like there's a lot of stuff that kids say
Speaker 1: that like would lead one to believe that like reincarnation
Speaker 1: is real, right, because sometimes like kids are talking like
Speaker 1: at length and in like incredible detail about stuff that
Speaker 1: they should have no understanding of whatsoever. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that they have actually right, that doesn't mean they've
Speaker 1: actually experienced that in their current life. Kids have a
Speaker 1: lot of active imaginations or maybe it is this weird whatever.
Speaker 1: I mean, we at some point could probably talk for
Speaker 1: at least three hours about what that sort of thing means.
Speaker 1: But I'm not willing to ever say that like what
Speaker 1: a two year old is saying accurately reflects what they've
Speaker 1: experienced in life. No, probably not, you know, probably not.
Speaker 1: But you can't use that as testimony in proof. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the kind of the way I would
Speaker 1: look at it too. But apparently apparently the police kind
Speaker 1: of bought it. Yeah, apparently they. By the way, according
Speaker 1: to Jane Doe, the child Teete harm was also present.
Speaker 1: It wasn't, so it's not just Thomas, Thomas and Tete
Speaker 1: who were chopping up the body. So the double t
Speaker 1: s we're cutting her up. Yeah, and the little girl
Speaker 1: was the later girl was there? Yeah? Yeah, And I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what to make of it except I think
Speaker 1: this is probably the at least divorce of all time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, probably not the ugliest, but it's one of
Speaker 1: them that's out there. Yeah. Or maybe Christina sincerely believed
Speaker 1: that she was accurately reporting everything that her daughter was saying,
Speaker 1: but again, because of her age, I I really have
Speaker 1: a hard time believing. And I really feel like she
Speaker 1: was saying things that probably let her daughter to repeat things.
Speaker 1: That's problem with with kids, and this kind of thing
Speaker 1: is hard to tell, especially at two planted or it's
Speaker 1: maybe not but a lot of times. But I mean,
Speaker 1: like even adults can be misled. You know, you can
Speaker 1: say to an adult like, well, didn't you see that
Speaker 1: person with a white hat? And we talked again, like
Speaker 1: a great, yeah, this is a great example again, like
Speaker 1: what we were talking about in the last episode when Amy,
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, you're going around, you're saying,
Speaker 1: did you see this girl? You know she might have
Speaker 1: been with bikers. She was a vegetarian, and people like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember she did vegetarians. Yeah, and she was with
Speaker 1: two bikers. That's weird, right, I mean, you can human
Speaker 1: memory such a weird thing, especially at two years old.
Speaker 1: I definitely miss remember stuff. But anyway, but we've got
Speaker 1: a two year old girl. How do they proved that
Speaker 1: or how do they decide that what this kid is saying? Well,
Speaker 1: they enlisted a child psychologist and a child psychiatrist to
Speaker 1: examine her and listen to her testimony and stuff, and
Speaker 1: they apparently decided their professional opinion was her her evidence
Speaker 1: was credible. How they had arrived at that conclusion, I
Speaker 1: don't really know that, but I send up. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, but you know that's you guys don't but
Speaker 1: I'm standing out of the rest of that. That's not
Speaker 1: enough of not enough epence. Well, then there's something like photo.
Speaker 1: There was another thing that happened, But this didn't happen
Speaker 1: until fall eighty seven, when this couple came forward. This
Speaker 1: is wait, wait, wait eight seven. The murder happens in
Speaker 1: four three years after, yeah, three years after. I just
Speaker 1: want to make sure I got that timeline right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they on this photoshop that was I think it's
Speaker 1: somewhere near the Caroline Ska Institute. And they came forward
Speaker 1: and told the police that they had developed a roll
Speaker 1: of film and printed photographs and the role had turned
Speaker 1: out to have images of a chopped up human body.
Speaker 1: Which is when did they say they developed that film?
Speaker 1: That would have been around like summer, so about the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm right about that time. They said that they they
Speaker 1: and their employees were appalled and disgusted, but they did
Speaker 1: it anyway, But they didn't report to the police. Why Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's my first is if you were if
Speaker 1: you were to, especially when you're in the days of
Speaker 1: analog film process and god, we're doing this again. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a thing that it was a known fact
Speaker 1: that if you saw, oh wait, you're making porn, we
Speaker 1: have to report you. Oh look, you have what appears
Speaker 1: to be a dead human being, we have to report you.
Speaker 1: You just don't go. So that was really gross, and
Speaker 1: don't do that again like that. That's not the way
Speaker 1: that works. Yeah, I don't. I don't know what exactly
Speaker 1: exactly why they just sort of let this thing sliding
Speaker 1: intil the cops. Apparently what happens that two young men
Speaker 1: brought the role of film in for development and told
Speaker 1: them that there's there's gonna be some unsettling stuff on
Speaker 1: these pictures, but this is part of a top secret investigation,
Speaker 1: you know, So please don't tell anybody, and please just
Speaker 1: you know, don't look at the pictures or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Then there's no need to call the police, you know.
Speaker 1: And and so from an air point of view, if
Speaker 1: it would have been top secret, if they had actually
Speaker 1: killed somebody and shopped at the Audie, right, that's that'd
Speaker 1: be a big secret I'd want to keep. Of course,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't take the film to be developed either. No,
Speaker 1: I learned how to develop my own film. I feel like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: police labs usually have people who are capable of that.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. That's the yeah of the thing is what
Speaker 1: top Yeah exactly. Yeah, you would think that they would
Speaker 1: have their own lab if they were it was actually
Speaker 1: a police investige. I'm not a fan of any of them.
Speaker 1: You go down to the police like, hey, Hans, um,
Speaker 1: so this is film we shot from this scene. Can
Speaker 1: you develop it for us? Big deal? Hans doesn't give
Speaker 1: a crap because he's he's that stuff all the time. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, if you don't go to the public photo market. Also,
Speaker 1: Hans knows you work for the police exactly, that you
Speaker 1: worked there. Uh. Yeah. And the only thing I think is, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're decided that your department is full
Speaker 1: of corrupt cops and and so you gotta go like
Speaker 1: off the grid to get this stuff taken care of. That.
Speaker 1: That makes no sense because we've never heard from these
Speaker 1: guys exactly any stories about like where they had why
Speaker 1: they had to go out side normal channels to get
Speaker 1: this film developed, they never said anything about that, so, uh,
Speaker 1: we can just count that. So of course naturally they
Speaker 1: wanted to know who these human were, at least did,
Speaker 1: and so they they put They put I think Thomas
Speaker 1: Oligan and I don't know if they put Teet harm
Speaker 1: in the same line up at the same time or
Speaker 1: different lineups or what. But apparently they picked Thomas Oligan
Speaker 1: out of the police lineup as one of the two
Speaker 1: young men who had brought the film in. And apparently
Speaker 1: they also picked out Teet although they weren't quite as
Speaker 1: sure about him. Yeah, had there been news coverage of
Speaker 1: these cars, sure, I'm sure there have been plenty so
Speaker 1: that things that, but apparently this was this would say,
Speaker 1: you know, so they got this is what they've got
Speaker 1: for their case. They've got a little kid who was
Speaker 1: eighteen months old who you know, and and and then
Speaker 1: they've got these people. Let's say they brought in this
Speaker 1: role of film and so five years later, that's about
Speaker 1: the gist of their case here. But they were arrested
Speaker 1: October eighties seven, nighties seven. They were convicted, vert was
Speaker 1: thrown out because of jury misconduct and because it was
Speaker 1: this media circus and they were all there. They were, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were talking to the press when they shouldn't have been,
Speaker 1: and so that was that was there was essentially kind
Speaker 1: of a mistrial. I don't know if they call it
Speaker 1: a mistrial in Sweden or not, but there was a
Speaker 1: big outcry about the mistrial. So there was a second
Speaker 1: trial and then they were acquitted, which seems about right
Speaker 1: to me, because you have it's against them even if
Speaker 1: they were the killers. I'm sorry, I can't. I can't
Speaker 1: support sending anybody into prison on that on that basis
Speaker 1: that I mean, it's it's tough, right because like what
Speaker 1: we know about both of them is that, like both
Speaker 1: of them have been accused of being kind of like
Speaker 1: horrible humans in their personal life and also or possibly
Speaker 1: right but I said, the accused of being like kind
Speaker 1: of horrible people in their personal life, and like also
Speaker 1: maybe had these pictures. Yeah, but that's it, that's about it.
Speaker 1: But it's tough because I feel like both right, I
Speaker 1: don't know what I would do and think about about
Speaker 1: having pictures like that. Like I have a friend who's
Speaker 1: a really good guy who did a tour in Iraq
Speaker 1: a while back. Yeah, we talked about this before he
Speaker 1: showed me a bunch of pictures that he brought back
Speaker 1: from there, and some of them are frankly, very disturbing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: last week as hell, you know. And he's a nice guy,
Speaker 1: but he has these pictures and it's not because he's
Speaker 1: some sort of weird disaster porn freak. I think he
Speaker 1: just wants to document his time over there. And I
Speaker 1: think that feels different though, well, I think you'd probably
Speaker 1: get used to that kind of stuff too, you see
Speaker 1: enough of it. And so for these guys and having
Speaker 1: a you know, all sorts of weird crime scene pictures
Speaker 1: is not that weird at all for them. So wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: speaking of crime scene pictures, was a teat that was
Speaker 1: known to send stuff unsolicited to people, Yeah, he did.
Speaker 1: He was supposedly sent sent like postmortem reports with photos
Speaker 1: and everything unsolicited to people, to people he knew. Well,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure you know what kind of people.
Speaker 1: I mean if you send him like to say, you're
Speaker 1: people he knew friends or whatever, but I and I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what the context was because like, for example,
Speaker 1: if it's a fellow mortician or doctor or not excuse me,
Speaker 1: not more titian, but a fellow forensic police person or something,
Speaker 1: and you just send him something like, Wow, this is this,
Speaker 1: this is really interesting, checkout page seven or something like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, or it could mean he was sort
Speaker 1: of sending it in laws or yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: or it could mean to him it was kind of
Speaker 1: the equivalent of porn. I don't know. It might have
Speaker 1: just been showing stuff a professional and interest to other people.
Speaker 1: I really don't know. Again, the case against these guys
Speaker 1: is just not great. Especially the one thing I didn't
Speaker 1: mention was just the whole idea, well, you sort of
Speaker 1: touched on it. You're gonna have your eighteen year old
Speaker 1: kid in front of old kid, excuse me, when you're
Speaker 1: carving up a corpse and chopping the head off. I
Speaker 1: find that hard to believe. They don't sit still. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't sit still. They're going to be running around
Speaker 1: while you're trying to do stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 1: I know. But so again, even though the case against
Speaker 1: him was not that great, that doesn't necessarily mean they're innocent.
Speaker 1: I think most likely they didn't do it. There was
Speaker 1: probably probably some of this was grudges. I mean, the
Speaker 1: in law has definitely had a grudge against them obviously.
Speaker 1: Obviously the ex wife who alleged childhood and all this
Speaker 1: had a grudge against against her husband, Thoma Tom Thomas Ogan.
Speaker 1: And so it's hard to believe that the police gave
Speaker 1: that much weight incredibility to these people. Um, and so
Speaker 1: I got I got to rule these two kind of
Speaker 1: out of suspects. Um. Everything just feels so circumstantial and
Speaker 1: mismanaged against them that I can't with a good clear
Speaker 1: conscious say, oh, yeah, I still think they did it.
Speaker 1: It's tough though, again, right because it's like I do
Speaker 1: feel like they're like not good humans. Being a dirt
Speaker 1: bag doesn't mean that you're a murdering killer who dices
Speaker 1: people up in your spiritime. So are there other theories here? Well,
Speaker 1: that's a few. That's you know. Another theory would be, well,
Speaker 1: it's just somebody else entirely that we just haven't heard of.
Speaker 1: And we've got these these suspects that we've named three
Speaker 1: of them so far, But it could have been another
Speaker 1: serial killer. The and and that's that's kind of just punting,
Speaker 1: I know, but you know, really obviously it could be.
Speaker 1: We don't know, We never will know. We don't have
Speaker 1: any other theories of people who were firm. No, not
Speaker 1: at all. No, that's just just the river draft the
Speaker 1: ripper kind of guy. Um. But of course the statute
Speaker 1: of limitations ran out in that. I think the original
Speaker 1: statute of years ago for us. Yeah, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: twenty five years for murder in Sweden spent. Apparently they've
Speaker 1: changed that now it's it doesn't There is no statute
Speaker 1: of limitation, which I feel like makes sense, right, Like,
Speaker 1: there are certain crimes where I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: that should never run out if we could prove that
Speaker 1: an expiration data. Yeah, there should never be really, yeah,
Speaker 1: certain crimes probably maybe like you steal a candy bar
Speaker 1: when you're eight, like fine, maybe you like murder somebody
Speaker 1: in up to their body. Maybe you never get to
Speaker 1: get away from it. Are saying I'm off the hook
Speaker 1: forrillo candy bars. I still as a kid, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Your body still has to deal with that, not to
Speaker 1: mention your conscience, but yeah, it I was just like,
Speaker 1: I don't have to duck the law anymore. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: but yeah, glad you admitted it. Well, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: keep not finding my taxes will never find me a lot, dude, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mindly, minly quibble about trying a case that's older
Speaker 1: than twenty five years is that memories are there, and say,
Speaker 1: if they want to accuse me, how am I going
Speaker 1: to come up with an alibi? Where would they go?
Speaker 1: Where am I going to find anywhere? Are they going
Speaker 1: to find any reliable witnesses? So that in theory, Well,
Speaker 1: but I guess like something that old is so hard. Sure,
Speaker 1: but the way that trial seemed to go, especially of
Speaker 1: like murder or something of that kind of seriousness go
Speaker 1: these days, juries seem to require, at least in the
Speaker 1: last ten or so years, scientific evidence, right, So they
Speaker 1: seem to require DNA, they seem to require kind of
Speaker 1: forensic evidence of some kind. So I I mean, granted
Speaker 1: they are fallible, but I would suspect that no reasonable
Speaker 1: prosecutor would bring a case against somebody, especially when a
Speaker 1: serious as this without some kind of really solid forensic evidence.
Speaker 1: And that seems to not be as sure. I mean,
Speaker 1: like there are some fallibility. There is certainly not just fallibility,
Speaker 1: there is outright prosecutorial abuse. Absolutely. Yeah. We talked about
Speaker 1: like not typically and we talked about you know, like
Speaker 1: bite mark forensic that's not real right, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of friends evidence that's not that's actively being proven thought
Speaker 1: that we used to considerately infallible or at least highly reliable,
Speaker 1: like hair analogy inallible. Yeah, yes, totally has totally been
Speaker 1: shown to be well, not quite so privilege as we
Speaker 1: thought it was. Totally. But I feel like if somebody,
Speaker 1: but I do feel like if somebody were like listen,
Speaker 1: within like you know what thousands like a thousand to
Speaker 1: one this person DNA was found on this body that
Speaker 1: was chopped up, you might want to at least to
Speaker 1: launch an investigation without saying right, but I mean without
Speaker 1: saying like, you know, listen, it was years ago, so
Speaker 1: we were only care anymore, like maybe just yeah, no,
Speaker 1: sometimes you want to get an answer. I totally understand that.
Speaker 1: And that's since we are in the business of solving
Speaker 1: and solve mysteries. Obviously, you know I'm pro solving that mystery. Yeah, totally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But like I said, sometimes it's a little unfair when
Speaker 1: that not much time has gone. I can be there
Speaker 1: can there can be an element uncircumstance evidence alone. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: ah yeah. But anyway to wrap up our case here,
Speaker 1: the apparently in I think we mentioned this earlier. The
Speaker 1: Prosecutor General did apply for a search warrant to obtain
Speaker 1: those tissue samples that have been collected, and they were
Speaker 1: being held at yeah, for stand and they were being
Speaker 1: held at the Caroline SKA Hospital. Uh. And so they
Speaker 1: apparently they wanted to see there there was the original bag.
Speaker 1: There was like a blue towel next to the bag,
Speaker 1: and then had some hair airs on it which were
Speaker 1: saved by the police. And all they want to do was,
Speaker 1: I guess, compared DNA and the tissue samples from stand
Speaker 1: to the DNA and those hairs and see if they
Speaker 1: could actually establish a connection. Not that it would be proof,
Speaker 1: but it'd be well, you know, it might be enough
Speaker 1: to actually resolve the case to everybody's satisfaction. Uh. And
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, nothing I ever have I have not
Speaker 1: heard anything about how they're testing went. And maybe it's
Speaker 1: still in the queue. Yeah, maybe you know. And so
Speaker 1: it's you know, I want to I want to give
Speaker 1: everybody the benefit of the doubt and believe the best
Speaker 1: of everyone. That's nice of you. Yeah, I don't know, no,
Speaker 1: but I'll accept you to. But but I'm not the
Speaker 1: first person who mentioned this. Uh, considering their conduct in
Speaker 1: the case, considering the two lives were destroyed. If it
Speaker 1: turned out that stands DNA max those hairs found there
Speaker 1: after everything they did to Teethe Harm and Thomas Oligan,
Speaker 1: then oh my god. They I could see where there
Speaker 1: might be a little embarrassment. Well, here's the worst part
Speaker 1: is that that Ten Thomas both sued the state and
Speaker 1: they were told no, you you can't do this at
Speaker 1: freaking bad. They had their medical licenses taken away. They
Speaker 1: have gainful employment that they are you know, highly trained for,
Speaker 1: they cannot practice. They cannot yet in Sweden at least. Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably anyway, Yeah, kind of a feeling. They probably would
Speaker 1: have a hard time. I think most place. I think
Speaker 1: the stink has followed them everywhere. I have no idea
Speaker 1: how what those guys do for a living or how
Speaker 1: they survive. But selling their story to tabloids, Yeah maybe,
Speaker 1: but and so it might be kind of tough. Yes,
Speaker 1: it might be. You could even see it from like
Speaker 1: not wanting to pay up millions of dollars for prosecution
Speaker 1: or anything like that, they might just sort of sit
Speaker 1: on the results. If it turned out the results, you know,
Speaker 1: actually exonerated these two and so maybe that's what happened.
Speaker 1: I think for me, Stan is the obvious best suspect
Speaker 1: you and you know, I wouldn't send I don't think
Speaker 1: there's enough evidence that even send him away unless the
Speaker 1: d n A test did come back positive. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: even then it's kind of like you have to then
Speaker 1: be able to actually link that towel to the crime,
Speaker 1: you know, because right next to the bag. Well, like,
Speaker 1: even then though, I mean, I would say, you know,
Speaker 1: the chances of somebody just having the really really serious
Speaker 1: unfortunate luck unless haircut next to the bag of body
Speaker 1: unbeknown to him, I would say that's that's enough for me.
Speaker 1: Probably it would be enough to shut well. And he died,
Speaker 1: So I guess maybe, you know, it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, find in the case, of course, these
Speaker 1: statute of limitation is expired, so nobody can be he
Speaker 1: can't be prosecuted for it, even if they can match
Speaker 1: his DNA him. But at least, you know, at least
Speaker 1: for these these other people that have been accused, at
Speaker 1: least they would get some resolution, you would think. But
Speaker 1: I think you know again that that whole trial by
Speaker 1: public opinion is rough to ever overcome it said. That's
Speaker 1: one of the reasons too, why it's it's important for
Speaker 1: the police when they're investigating somebody to kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: keep a lid on the whole thing. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: don't destroy people's lives, you know. But anyway, that's enough
Speaker 1: of editorializing for me. That is our story. Katina by
Speaker 1: the Mad Vampire by the Mad Vampire Doc. Yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: You're probably gonna be wanting to, Oh, did you guys
Speaker 1: have any more therorizing before? I know, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to steer into weekly world news garbage zones. Well we will,
Speaker 1: I know. I know that all of our listeners are
Speaker 1: gonna want to read that article, so we will post
Speaker 1: a link to it on our website along with really
Speaker 1: can't they just go to murder Pedia and see the
Speaker 1: crap fest that is this story? Oh yeah, they put
Speaker 1: a lot of crapfest that the murder Pedia has got
Speaker 1: some bad, some really ludicrous stuff on there. They bought
Speaker 1: was seriously drunk that day. Yeah, murder Media took a
Speaker 1: little credibility head for me, at least when I read
Speaker 1: their page on these guys on this murder and I
Speaker 1: used to think there were somewhat reliable, not perfect, but
Speaker 1: you know someone I don't think so anyway, So so yeah,
Speaker 1: the but but we'll have links on our website, which
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where you can download
Speaker 1: the episodes, you can buy merch yes, T shirts and
Speaker 1: mugs and all sorts of good stuff, and read some
Speaker 1: of our research that we will we will link to. Also,
Speaker 1: of course you're you're probably gonna want to send us
Speaker 1: an email about this, of course you will. So. Our
Speaker 1: email address is thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Oh and what else? We're on Facebook and other social
Speaker 1: media outlets, or on Facebook where we have a page
Speaker 1: and a group, so like the page, joined the group
Speaker 1: and answer the questions. They're easy. There's like two of them,
Speaker 1: right yeah yeah uh, and a lot of activity going on. There.
Speaker 1: Were also on Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways. Lots
Speaker 1: of great stuff there, including pictures of my cats. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And what else? Photo Instagram. It's not photo Instagram. We
Speaker 1: are on Instagram now where we are Thinking Sideways Podcast.
Speaker 1: Don't go to the Thinking Sideways only guys because they
Speaker 1: are up to no good. Who knows what they're doing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they follow it from our page. It's way easy, very
Speaker 1: very good. Also we have a subreddit, thinking sideways whether
Speaker 1: there's any good activity out there, by the way lately
Speaker 1: always it's so far in the future. Why do you
Speaker 1: ask this question? She's not really a time traveler even
Speaker 1: that we accuse E thinks I'm the doctor. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so there's stuff going on there. What else I'm agine
Speaker 1: you can find our episodes on our website. There's other
Speaker 1: places you'd find them to believe it or not. We're
Speaker 1: on iTunes where you can also besides finding the episodes,
Speaker 1: you can subscribe. You can also leave a review, leave
Speaker 1: a rating. We like high ratings like that would be
Speaker 1: a five. That's our preference. Uh. And also you can
Speaker 1: find us on streaming services like Stitcher and some of
Speaker 1: the other ones. Take a name, but I'll just leave
Speaker 1: it at Stitcher. All right. Well, that's it for this week.
Speaker 1: So until next week, Chaw heads off to you.