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Speaker 1: This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Hugs for Pugs. Instead, it's brought to you by

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Speaker 1: Unexplained Mysteries. If you're a fan of our podcast, you

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Speaker 1: probably enjoy mysteries, so you should definitely check out Unexplained Mysteries.

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Speaker 1: Every week, the hosts explore the greatest mysteries of the

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Speaker 1: past and present, from the building of Stonehenge to the

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Speaker 1: subject of the Mona Lisa. There may not be a

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Speaker 1: simple answer or explanation, just like us, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean there's nothing to talk about. Visit Apple Podcasts, tune

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Speaker 1: in spot, basically anywhere you can find them. Definitely podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and it's Unexplained Mysteries. You know how to spell and

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Speaker 1: explained mysteries. That's probably how you found us. You searched

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Speaker 1: don't explained mysteries. Podcasts do the same thing, except for

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Speaker 1: put podcast p a R cast and you'll find them.

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Speaker 1: This episode is also brought to you by the audiobook

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Speaker 1: edition of The Wife Between Us by Career Hendrix and

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Speaker 1: just Wow, and one of the best audio books ever

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Speaker 1: narrated by Julia Wheelan a twisty psychological suspense about a

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Speaker 1: at McMillan audio dot com slash wife between us think.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by Steve and Devon, and today this

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Speaker 1: week we're going to talk about another unsolved mystery. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about the unsolved murder from Catherine da

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Speaker 1: Costa ut. Pronouncing that right, I'm gonna mispronounce every word

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Speaker 1: I say. I feel like any time like we get

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Speaker 1: a lot of suggestions for Swedish otherwise kind of that

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Speaker 1: area mysteries, and every time I feel like it's just

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Speaker 1: because people want to hear us struggle. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of who are very very honestly willing to help us.

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Speaker 1: They are it doesn't help him over the internet, and

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Speaker 1: therefore it does not help us. Pronounce unless you're gonna,

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Speaker 1: like send us actual audio files of you saying the words,

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Speaker 1: it's not that barely works. Yeah, just as a small

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Speaker 1: warning there, there are some things that which should be

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Speaker 1: considered adult content. So viewer discretion is advised and also

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Speaker 1: a listener discretion to thank goodness, because the viewership is

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Speaker 1: really low. These people are staring at their iPods going

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Speaker 1: what the hell? Actually, we were apparently on a run

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Speaker 1: of this kind of story because this is like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hate to admit it, but stories like this are

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Speaker 1: really easy. Well I'm telling you right now, Next week

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Speaker 1: not going to have any warnings whatsoever, going to be

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Speaker 1: the nicest, blandest story. It's going to be wholesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: next white, next week, the story is is actually going

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Speaker 1: to be about my Little Pony. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: don't even go there though, because they get but my

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Speaker 1: Little Pony fandom gets a little whatever. Anyway, the story, yeah, okay, alright, anyway,

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Speaker 1: sorry here. Oh yeah, So catin Da Costa she was

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Speaker 1: she was twenty eight years old when she vanished. That

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Speaker 1: would have been that was June test four when she

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Speaker 1: was last seen. Um, she was she had been drug

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Speaker 1: addicted since high school and and was clear up to

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Speaker 1: the end had a big problem with drugs and so eventually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and eventually that sort of drove her into prostitution. And

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Speaker 1: she was working at the time of her death in

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Speaker 1: Stockholm in an area town that's called Mom's Achilles Gotten,

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Speaker 1: which is like kind of this business district. Apparently that

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Speaker 1: all the all the prostitutes and went to and their

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Speaker 1: drug dealing was going on. That apparently they've cleaned out

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Speaker 1: all up and it's you know, and of course it's

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Speaker 1: vanished completely. No now it's it's moved somewhere else. But

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Speaker 1: that's what the neighborhood was called in that time. She

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Speaker 1: uh had moved around a little bit, struggled, as I said,

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Speaker 1: with drugs. She moved to Portugal for a while, got married,

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Speaker 1: had a kid, and then when she got back to Sweden,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately the child was taken away from her by social

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Speaker 1: services and by reportedly her drug habit had gotten worse,

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Speaker 1: which typically happens. Yeah, they tend to get worse and worse.

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Speaker 1: Yea worse and worse. She had odeed a few times,

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Speaker 1: and she you know, of course, you know you need

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Speaker 1: more drugs. That means you need more money. So she

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Speaker 1: started taking on clients that the other women in the

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Speaker 1: area would refuse, you know, the guys who were the

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Speaker 1: real sicko types, the violent ones and stuff. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: she tried to started taking on a kind of risk

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Speaker 1: of your business. So it's always so sad. I feel

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Speaker 1: like when people get stuck in that cycle. You know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kind of it's kind of like a how you know,

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Speaker 1: is it their fault? Is it not their faults? Who knows?

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Speaker 1: But like just like it's sad no matter what. So

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, obviously addiction is a big thing.

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Speaker 1: It happens to the best of us. But you know,

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Speaker 1: she probably would have been better off going into rehab.

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Speaker 1: I think I can say, yeah, it is, but you

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Speaker 1: totally easier but exactly, yeah, it's easier to say that.

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Speaker 1: But well, any way, back to her disappearance. Apparently last

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Speaker 1: she was last seen in Mom's Kells gotten in on

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Speaker 1: June tents getting out of a client's car. Uh. Five

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Speaker 1: weeks later, that would be mid July eighty four, some

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Speaker 1: of our body parts were found in a plastic bag

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Speaker 1: in a suburb of Stockholm, dear what's called the Kolinski

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Speaker 1: or Kolinska Institute, Yeah, which is like a hospital, a

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Speaker 1: medical uh somewhere nearby there. And then three weeks after that,

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Speaker 1: that would have been early August, another garbage bag of

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Speaker 1: body parts was found less than a mile away. And

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Speaker 1: so they've got most everything. They put her all back

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Speaker 1: together kind of except for her head, which was never found.

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Speaker 1: There were some other bits, some other bits, so I

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Speaker 1: won't give you a detailed list. There were specific gender

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Speaker 1: organs like the kini areas. Yeah, there's that. And also

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Speaker 1: some of her internal organs were never found. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure her being a heroin addict, I'm pretty sure they

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Speaker 1: were not sold for transplants. Probably not. But her hands

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Speaker 1: luckily were intact, and so they were able to idea

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Speaker 1: her through her fingerprints. The organs that were missing, were

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Speaker 1: they the kind that you would transplant normally? I have

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Speaker 1: no idea what organs were going, to be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was like some intestines, which we just

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Speaker 1: learned apparently that's like a thing, but probably not. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was just kind of these weird and

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Speaker 1: ocuuss like why would they be missing organs? But maybe not.

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Speaker 1: I don't really know. And that's a good question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in the whole dissection thing that probably when you're busy

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Speaker 1: cutting out the body, there's certain things that just sort

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Speaker 1: of then this is going to be gross, but probably

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Speaker 1: just sort of fall out. And so although at the

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Speaker 1: same time that makes no sense because you would think

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Speaker 1: you're just stuff them in the garbage bags. You're stuffing

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Speaker 1: everything else into right. Well, but I mean some of

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Speaker 1: the other body parts that were missing seemed like I mean,

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Speaker 1: that seems more like intentional trophies, you know, as we're

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Speaker 1: talking about again these like kind of bikini areas, um

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Speaker 1: that we're missing. That seems like a trophy keep for

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Speaker 1: somebody versus you know, the organ. So if you are,

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Speaker 1: you know, just you've got some stuff in a pile

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Speaker 1: over there. Maybe that just slipped in doubt or maybe

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Speaker 1: the guy had hogs and I don't know, but then

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Speaker 1: you would just feed all of it to the hogs,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you would? Right, they'll eat it all. Hogs only

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Speaker 1: eat the finest liver and intestines and breast and whatever

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Speaker 1: those bits. Okay, So anyway, now we've gotten to that. Oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I wanted I wanted to thank Candice

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Speaker 1: who suggested this for got Yeah sorry, yeah, sorry Candice.

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Speaker 1: I should have said something earlier and wait until we

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Speaker 1: were right in the middle of all the gross parts.

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Speaker 1: But I do thank you for suggesting it, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure a lot of other our other Swedish listeners are

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Speaker 1: probably mentioned it to at some point, So thanks to

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Speaker 1: all of you too, Uh, well anyway, it says, you

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Speaker 1: all know, it's one thing to murder somebody, but when

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Speaker 1: you start chopping them up into pieces, well that gets

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Speaker 1: people's attention. That's another thing entirely. Yeah, usually people would

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Speaker 1: consider that to be beyond the pale. Ye. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: so this became a really big case in Sweden, and

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Speaker 1: if you live in Sweden, I'm sure you've heard of it.

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Speaker 1: It's apparently one of their biggest doneselve mysteries, especially especially

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Speaker 1: in the like, you know, mid eighties. Yeah. I guess

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Speaker 1: we're more used to that kind of stuff these days

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Speaker 1: with the internet and TV and well, I mean just

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Speaker 1: more that this case happened in the mid eighties, but

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Speaker 1: it's still around and we'll still talk about it writing

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Speaker 1: about it. But but as Steve said, it is called

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Speaker 1: the cutting up murder. At least that's the sort of

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Speaker 1: crude English translation of it. There's some very long Swedish word. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't ever like their long words, don't. And the

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Speaker 1: Germans I feel really like shove them all together. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry I might have missed it. You might have

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Speaker 1: said it, but how how were they able to identify

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Speaker 1: the body fingerprints? So her hands weren't I did find

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Speaker 1: the hands. Yeah, okay, so yeah, at all they pieced

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Speaker 1: it all together, everything went together, and yeah it was

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Speaker 1: all the same body and fingerprints. Yeah, and then the

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Speaker 1: tabloid showed up and oh yeah I got huge and

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Speaker 1: that went. Yeah, I just went kind of crazy from there.

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Speaker 1: They didn't inspire some famous books. Yeah, supposedly they are

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Speaker 1: actually books written literally about this story. Documentaries were done.

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Speaker 1: But also supposedly it's been claimed that a few famous

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Speaker 1: Swedish writers like Stig Larson you know you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: that guy, was inspired the tattoo. Yeah, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I just recently saw the both both versions of that movie. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I read the book. The book was good. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: watched the movie. I haven't gotten to either of those things.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but if somebody wasn't doing their research, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that was the big part of it, you're right,

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Speaker 1: sorry now, But actually having seen both of those movies,

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Speaker 1: I saw the original plus to Daniel Craig remake in English,

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Speaker 1: and I consider myself to be an expert on Swedish

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Speaker 1: society and culture. Should yeah, totally. I considered myself to

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Speaker 1: be an expert on Swedish culture in society by because

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Speaker 1: I've gone Twikia a couple of times. Oh there you go,

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Speaker 1: I eat Swedish fish. I'm so sorry. Yeah, okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know the one thing I noticed about Ikea though,

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Speaker 1: is that when you go there, you know, it's that

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Speaker 1: Swedish furniture looks exactly like American furniture. Yeah, because it's

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Speaker 1: just harder to put together. Yeah, now, well that's because

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Speaker 1: I was. It's just no, it's because American furniture is

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Speaker 1: all I keia. I mean, averybody I know has Ikea

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Speaker 1: in their house. Oh, back to our story. As Steve said,

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Speaker 1: the tablets did go nuts over this. I was just

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Speaker 1: showing Devon before we started recording a copy of one

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Speaker 1: of the stories. You'll find a picture of it on Instagram. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's an so four weeks ago a yeah

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Speaker 1: when this uh uh. And of course, this case also

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Speaker 1: became a big cost for the women's rights groups because

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Speaker 1: in Katrine Cain excuse me, became a symbol for the

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Speaker 1: ill treatment of women in Swedish society, which I can't

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Speaker 1: really comment because I've never been to Sweden, but I

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Speaker 1: mean I would say there's some not to like go

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Speaker 1: on a political soapbox necessarily or anything. But I would

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Speaker 1: say that, yes, like there is a general lack of

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Speaker 1: care for women who are put into situations like this,

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Speaker 1: who particularly women who end up, you know, being in

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Speaker 1: the sex working industry or sex trade. You know, there

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Speaker 1: is that general kind of lack of not in this

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Speaker 1: room certainly, but in society and general lack of kind

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Speaker 1: of care of their own safety. Yeah. They they make

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Speaker 1: convenient targets pure sure. I mean yeah often. I mean

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Speaker 1: same with like women who are experiencing homelessness or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. I mean, you know, women on the kind

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Speaker 1: of fringe of society and men to certainly less a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but men and women on the fringes of

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Speaker 1: society do tend to be easy victims. Well, I was

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Speaker 1: reading the other day some stat about, you know, sex

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Speaker 1: workers in this type of situation you actually being used

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Speaker 1: ter street walker, because that's put you in the most

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Speaker 1: direct line of fire. But I was reading and I did.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what the number was for the you know,

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Speaker 1: the percentage of likelihood of death, but it was I

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Speaker 1: was like, that's not right. And then I walked away

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Speaker 1: and I'm standing, I'm like, that's a really big number,

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Speaker 1: like another reason to not go into that, particularly profession

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Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, but unfortunately area some people feel

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Speaker 1: like that's their only option. Again, you know, certainly like

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Speaker 1: drug addiction often pleays into that, and that there were

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Speaker 1: certain certain societies like you know, I mean in Russia

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Speaker 1: after the big collapse in the economy, it went all

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Speaker 1: to hell, a lot of women turned to prostitution. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, and we're talking like professional women started doing

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Speaker 1: it stuff, you know what happens. But anyway, but I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get down to Yeah, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna step up. But the other controversy is, of course,

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Speaker 1: the trials. There were two trials about this. There were yeah,

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Speaker 1: there were, Yeah, A couple of suspects were rustled up.

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Speaker 1: They were put on trial for the murder. They were convicted,

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Speaker 1: but the verge was overturned and that was that, except

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Speaker 1: there was a huge outcry about the whole thing, and

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Speaker 1: so they were put on trial again, and second time

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Speaker 1: around they were acquitted. Um, and so they want on

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Speaker 1: just to lead their lives, except their lives are kind

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Speaker 1: of destroyed. But yeah, yeah, that's hard. That's I was

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Speaker 1: going to say, like a public campaign like this is

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Speaker 1: is almost impossible to overcome and to get a fair hearing,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and even yeah, and even if it turns

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Speaker 1: out that you are innocent, you know, there's kind of

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Speaker 1: that guilty by public opinion situation that happens a lot

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Speaker 1: these days, and it's kind of unfortunate. Yeah, but also

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Speaker 1: maybe sometimes okay, well, it just depends on if they

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Speaker 1: were guilty or not. But I can say, I can

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Speaker 1: say and equivocally like having read a few of the

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Speaker 1: tabloid stories about the murderers, if they were indeed murders,

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Speaker 1: that even if they were guilty, the stuff that was

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Speaker 1: said about them in the tabloids was just totally inflammatory.

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Speaker 1: Beyond inflammatory things that were said, they were obviously not true.

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Speaker 1: Obviously obviously they did. They were just they made these

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Speaker 1: people out to be vampires and you know, mass murderers.

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Speaker 1: Literally not he's not, he's not, Like, yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: but Joe was like saying, like, truly, again, if you

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Speaker 1: go look our instagram, not to push too much, there's

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Speaker 1: this article that's just like he was an actual vampire.

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Speaker 1: Like that was the claim that they were making. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just like they were making them out to be

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Speaker 1: these like yeah literally, yeah yeah, yeah, And so I

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Speaker 1: could say that it's probably pretty hard to recover your

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Speaker 1: reputation after something like that. Yeah, but this is still

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Speaker 1: hotly debated. A lot of people thought that they and

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Speaker 1: still think that they were guilty. Um, you know, of

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Speaker 1: course the tabloids and but other people think they were railroaded. Well, anyway,

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Speaker 1: let's take a look at the suspects. Yet, we got

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Speaker 1: a lot of theories about this is one of those

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Speaker 1: weird ones. We have a very short intro because the

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Speaker 1: shorty story so small, but the theory section is the

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Speaker 1: majority of it. Don't be confused here. We're not breaking

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Speaker 1: right now story not yet. Okay, here we go. That's

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Speaker 1: not it. It's like, oh, sorry, that was I was

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Speaker 1: doing the What was the phenomena? Yep, that's the one

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Speaker 1: I was doing. That's what I always do. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we got the music out of the way, alright, phenomena.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's look at the theories here. So Chuppy.

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Speaker 1: I haven't mentioned Chuppy for a while, you haven't. I

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Speaker 1: recently did a board at work casual a m A

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. You guys may may not have seen one

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Speaker 1: of the number one most asked questions, was what did

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Speaker 1: Chuppy ever do to Joe that he accuses him of

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Speaker 1: like stuff all the time. And I was like, listen, nothing, okay,

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Speaker 1: according to our response to the legal suit, nothing happened,

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Speaker 1: and nothing every shall and we shall out officially blame

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Speaker 1: him for anything never ever. No, no, I will tell

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Speaker 1: you what happened is yeah, your goal. I don't think

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Speaker 1: Chippy was involved. No, it wasn't. No, It's not not

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Speaker 1: that at all. It's it's just, you know, when we're

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Speaker 1: looking for a little filler, you know, we'll talk about Chippy,

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Speaker 1: you know. Uh. But also I just like his name.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's got a cool name, Chippy, Yeah, Chip. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I want to like this sory, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: I do like this sery. But well, okay, you know

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Speaker 1: where I'm you know where I'm going here. Okay, it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: How about the next one. Next theory, there's another theory

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Speaker 1: out there. I mean, it turns out that from the

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Speaker 1: body parts collected, they were never actually able to establish

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Speaker 1: a cause of death. So it's not bullet wound or

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Speaker 1: stab wound or the head. Yeah. But the hard part

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Speaker 1: with that is, like somebody cut off her head, like

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Speaker 1: that could have been the cause of death. They don't

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Speaker 1: have the head. They don't have the head, so they

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Somebody could have like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's so many different things that could have happened to

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Speaker 1: her body. Because they cut it up afterwards, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to tell what happened. Yeah, I mean, so it's so technically, yes,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a cause of death. Yeah, basically diving,

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Speaker 1: overdose and uh. And somebody decided to practice their dissection skills.

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Speaker 1: They were not very good at it. Well, actually they

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Speaker 1: were pretty good, and some people were really good. They

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Speaker 1: got her into a bunch of little pieces. Yeah Mechlaxander

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Speaker 1: said that it looked professional. Another another idea is that

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Speaker 1: it was just somebody that somebody comes across the dead

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Speaker 1: body and think, hey, this is what a great troll.

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Speaker 1: This will be. Well, we'll chop the body up in

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Speaker 1: the bits, put it in garbage bags, and we'll leave

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Speaker 1: it distributed around town and people will go nuts. So rude. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I kind of find that hard to believe too. That's

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Speaker 1: a pretty extreme troll. I could picture somebody doing that,

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Speaker 1: except for the part about getting thrown in prison for

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Speaker 1: many years. If you get busted for doing it, and

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Speaker 1: you always you always make this mistake of assuming that

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Speaker 1: people think out repercussions of their actions. I mean, logan, Paul, Paul,

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Speaker 1: do you not know about this? Which is that use

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Speaker 1: a YouTube quote unquote YouTube sensation who thought it would

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Speaker 1: be cool to go into the Japanese suicide forest and

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Speaker 1: film a recently suicide body idea. Oh no, I don't

332
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Speaker 1: remember this, but I can only imagine how badly that

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, really really bad. And how did the Japanese

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Speaker 1: feel about They're like, this is an atrocity, Like I mean, yeah,

335
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Speaker 1: basically they were like, we would love to prosecute you

336
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Speaker 1: if if you know, if America would extra that you,

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Speaker 1: we'd love to prosecute you. And America is like, now,

338
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Speaker 1: but this just happened, and YouTube just no, he didn't

339
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Speaker 1: kill anybody, but like it's very port but it's it's

340
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Speaker 1: the same sort of thing, right, It's like profiting off

341
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Speaker 1: of getting something off of a dead body, the same

342
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Speaker 1: thing as like kind of cutting up I guess maybe not,

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Speaker 1: but you know, almost the same thing as cutting up

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Speaker 1: a dead body to just like get a bit, not

345
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Speaker 1: just get your jollies, but to just watch everybody else

346
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Speaker 1: lose their heads over it's what happened here. But literally,

347
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: this is not a joke. Yeah, I didn't make the

348
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Speaker 1: head and shoulders above the restaurant. Okay, let's keep going. Okay, so,

349
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 1: but so that's what you gotta put that into the

350
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Speaker 1: realm of the possible but extremely unlikely Okay, yeah, super unlikely. Yeah,

351
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,960
Speaker 1: and of course dragons, Dungeons and dragons, it's like their props. No,

352
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: not like this. We've proven that that whole thing is

353
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: not real. No, Dungeons and Dragons players do like their props,

354
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: but the only reason they really like their props is

355
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: because you buy them and then you get to paint

356
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Speaker 1: them yourselves. That's them all. Yeah, okay, that's how that

357
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Speaker 1: works with right, Okay, let's keep going because I just

358
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Speaker 1: emails from this episode, have the time, Yeah, now we don't. So,

359
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Speaker 1: but even though I considered a possibility that she was

360
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Speaker 1: not even murdered, she died of natural like an o,

361
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Speaker 1: it's unlikely. It does seem unlikely. Yeah, it seems very unlikely.

362
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Speaker 1: But ever did happen? Whoever actually did it? You know,

363
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Speaker 1: you could have come forward and says, hey, by the way,

364
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Speaker 1: you're all overreacting and you're putting these guys on trial.

365
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 1: I chopped the body up, but she was already dead.

366
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Speaker 1: Of course that guy didn't come forward and say that

367
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: out of your mind to do that. Let's move on

368
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: to our next theory. This is an actual person whose

369
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Speaker 1: name was Stanislav Gonerka, who was a Polish person, I think,

370
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Speaker 1: a Polish immigrant to Sweden, and we're just going to

371
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Speaker 1: call him Stan because I can't possibly try to pronounce

372
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Speaker 1: I can pronounce it, sadly, it's just last thing that's

373
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Speaker 1: kind of a still. I just want to call him Stan.

374
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Speaker 1: I don't know Stan. Yeah, we'll call him Stan. But

375
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Speaker 1: Stan was a butcher by profession. He had been locked

376
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Speaker 1: up in a mental institution for about ten years because well,

377
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four he murdered a young woman by

378
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Speaker 1: strangling her and then he cut his kind of body

379
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Speaker 1: up in the small piece is put in garbage bags,

380
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 1: um and very similar to and the head that he

381
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 1: was never found. Katherine, Yeah it was. I think I

382
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: think Katherine is a correct pronunciation. But so this does

383
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: sound like an awfully familiar it does. Yeah, I'm sorry,

384
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 1: you may or may not have an answer to this. Question,

385
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: why is he put in a menstal mental institution instead

386
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: of jail. I guess they must have decided maybe his

387
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: his his attorney might have pleaded insanity. So it turns

388
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: out that's not so common. He was in the seventies,

389
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 1: even in the seventies, and it's another country and we

390
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: don't know exactly how their system works. I'll just say

391
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Speaker 1: that it turns out the whole like insanity thing is

392
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Speaker 1: not so common because it out that falls apart. Well,

393
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: either it falls apart or the sentence of insanity is

394
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 1: like way worse. That's that's the problem, doesn't It doesn't

395
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Speaker 1: mean they just let you go, because if they put

396
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Speaker 1: you an insane asylum and then somehow you have to

397
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Speaker 1: prove you're not insane, which is that's hard. That's probably

398
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: harder than convincing the board. Yeah, from but I'm not insane.

399
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm not insane. For the next for you guys have

400
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: heard that thing, right, there was the journalist. I'm sure

401
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: that our listeners have heard this, but I'll just briefly,

402
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: like high level, there was a journalist at one point

403
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 1: in like the late eighteen hundreds who was like, I

404
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Speaker 1: just want to prove how corrupt the insane asylum industry

405
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Speaker 1: is by getting myself insane person committed to the insane.

406
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Speaker 1: So she pretended to be insane, got committed, and then

407
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Speaker 1: as soon as she was there, started like acting like

408
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Speaker 1: a normal, totally sane person, and they were like, no,

409
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Speaker 1: you're still super insane and kept her. It took like

410
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: her publisher had to come in, like five different people

411
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Speaker 1: had to come in. It was a very long process

412
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Speaker 1: to get her out. But ye know, it turns out, yeah,

413
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Speaker 1: so that don't do that. Guys, don't pretend to be

414
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Speaker 1: insane to get admitted to insane asylum. But the whole

415
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: you know, in that whole thing, at least here in

416
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Speaker 1: America that they do process component of it as a

417
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: little better than it used to be. But in the

418
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: old days, it used to be scarily easily easy to

419
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: commit somebody. Oh yeah, that was that was especially women,

420
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Speaker 1: especially women. It was super easy to get women exactly,

421
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Speaker 1: And so because you were upset about something, you were hysterical.

422
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: Rough anyway, So he was he spent time in instead

423
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: of a prison, Okay, although I imagine the psychiatric hospital

424
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: wasn't much more fun and ten years either places probably

425
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: pretty rough, probably so he got out in April four. Yeah,

426
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, when was our our victim murdered? Sometimes

427
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: sometime after June tenth, so, and I'm assuming it's the

428
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: police seem to believe that murder took place very shortly

429
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: after that. It must have been by the state of

430
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: the parts of the would assume, Yeah, they were able

431
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: to establish that, but really, I mean, she could have

432
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: been held somewhere for a week or so or two maybe,

433
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: but you would ready to discern that the week or

434
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: two's difference after that much time has elapsed at the

435
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: body parts have been Yeah, they've been all sitting around.

436
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: Imagine that. Yeah, I would imagine I and of course

437
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on this at all, that probably

438
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: bodies deteriorated at a different rate when they're a whole

439
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: body versus chopped up in the small pieces. It's like

440
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: it's crushed ice versus an entire block of ice. I

441
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: was gonna say, yeah, it's more like you know, you

442
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: wherever there is exposure, Yeah, you're going to decompose exposed surface.

443
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: That's what crushed ice. Blood. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah,

444
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: that makes sense now, but context h yeah, well yeah, anyway,

445
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: Stan was it looks this kind of looks bad for Stan.

446
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes it look like a pretty good suspect,

447
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: I would say, I mean, wouldn't you think he gets

448
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: out of it, gets out of like the mental institution

449
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: and somebody dies right after that, just like the old

450
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: the last one died. The police did take a look

451
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: at him because he was it turns out a regular

452
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: down there at the red light district. I already told

453
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: you what it was called earlier, but that's so hard

454
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: to protect. Yeah, he had actually he'd been seen there

455
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: hanging out there in June when Catarine disappeared. Uh, he

456
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: was known to the police as a dangerous person, violent person,

457
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: violent dangerous person. Yeah, apparently, And according to Swedish newspapers.

458
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: And this is not just the tabloids, but according to

459
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: the newspapers, his name was found in Catherine's diary. Again

460
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: with the diary. Again with the diary. Apparently it was

461
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: one of our one of our coworkers or colleagues actually

462
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: gave it to police. Apparently it's disappeared now. I'm just saying,

463
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: like in our the last episode, we also talked about

464
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: a diary being like the only thing that linked somebody

465
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: to the crime. So yeah, yeah, Hank, I'm gonna have

466
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: to start keeping a diary. Yeah, Stephen Devon again, you

467
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: stop it, dear Diary. It's weird they keep coming back,

468
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: dear Diary. They joked about taking out a life insurance

469
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: policy on me der diary, going shooting with Devon and

470
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: Steve tomorrow. Don't do it. Please document all that stuff.

471
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: What else about Stand they ruled about as a suspects

472
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: pretty early on, and nobody seems to know why. I know,

473
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: at least I've heard pretty conclusively that he did not

474
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: actually have an alibi for the way where he was

475
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: at at that time period, and so it wasn't the

476
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: alibi apparently that ruled him out. So I'm not sure

477
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: what exactly caused police to rule him out as a suspect.

478
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: I thought at one point, at least in the last

479
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: decade or so, they had acquired skin samples, does this

480
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: sound correct samples to try and conclusively prove that it

481
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't involved. But that's one of those things.

482
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: It's here's the flash in the pan news report that

483
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: never gets followed up on. Yeah, the last I read

484
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: about that was an article that was published in two

485
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: thousand ten, and as of that time, the issue was

486
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: still up in the air as to whether this these

487
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: tissue samples that was taken after his death at work

488
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: conclusively or not conclusively linking him to the murder. Nothing.

489
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: I feel like i've again like since we don't really

490
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: know how it is that he ended up in a

491
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital versus uh, actual like jail. Yeah, I almost

492
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: wonder if that had a little bit to do with

493
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: the police kind of dismissing him. I don't know what

494
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: his problem was. That he would get drunk and become

495
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: super violent. That was, that was, and that's appears to

496
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: be what happened in seventy four, And the girls in

497
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: that area in four appeared to recognize or at least

498
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: two have suffered his behavior enough that they were shutting

499
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: him out. Is what I've seen in some places, because

500
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: you know, you get out, you're free. Let's celebrate. I

501
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: get drunk, I get brutal. Let's go find a girl

502
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: and beat the holy crap out of her and have

503
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: a good time to break and where it gets around

504
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: among the among the sex workers prostitutes, that you stay, Yeah,

505
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: you kind of like you look out for your own right,

506
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: you stay like, yeah, you stay away from that job.

507
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: As we know, Katherine was was willing to take on

508
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: that kind of because she was desperate for money. So yeah,

509
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: I don't really know, but I don't know. I tend

510
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: to trust, however, like for better for worse, I tend

511
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: to trust the police that they must have had some reason.

512
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I think they might have

513
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: ruled them out as they might have found a better suspect. Yeah,

514
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: be suspects, so it might. It might well be that

515
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 1: they didn't rule him out for great reasons so much.

516
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: It was just they just pursued other aspects, somebody they

517
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: like better, and so they just dropped stand. And as

518
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: for him, he died as you as you were said.

519
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: They took some tissue samples before they buried him or

520
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: cremated they did whatever they did with his body. Yeah,

521
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 1: and so those are still around. They might be helpful

522
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: someday in solving the crime. So far they haven't been.

523
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: But anyway, well, we'll set up aside as a as

524
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: a possible theory for our purp and we'll move on

525
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: to another purp here. But first before we do that,

526
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: let's take a break. Perfect obsession, Life of Lies, The

527
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: Executioner Lie to Me, Marked for Revenge, the coldest fear,

528
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: race against Time, the ultimatum, Deep graves, hoodwinked Hearts. I

529
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: like that one. If any of these titles sounded familiar

530
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: to you or interesting to you, you might be a

531
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: fan of Hanover Square Press title. They are also the

532
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: publisher of The Innocent Wife, in international best selling novel

533
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: by Amy Lloyd. That that tells the story of a

534
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: young school teacher who falls in love with a man

535
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: on death row whom she believes is falsely accused. Twenty

536
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: years ago he was arrested for the murder of somebody

537
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: in Florida's Red River County. But now he's the subject

538
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: of a true crime documentary, you like those that's taking

539
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Speaker 1: the world by storm. The filmmakers are whipping are whipping

540
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: up a frenzy to uncover the truth and free the

541
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: victim of a gross miscarriage of justice. And though Samantha

542
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: is a thousand miles away in England, she is invested

543
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: in his case as any of his lawyers, perhaps more

544
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: so as her letters to the convicted killer grow more

545
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: intimate after their marriage and his release. Events begin to

546
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: suggest that he may not be as innocent as it seems.

547
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Speaker 1: A compelling tale of obsession, perfect for true crime addicts.

548
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Speaker 1: The Innocent Wife is available now wherever books are sold,

549
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: and we're back. Okay. Our next theory or suspect A

550
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: man named Tete Harm. Yeah, great name harm there. So

551
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: it's it's like, yeah, were the a there's a nem

552
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: out so in the Swedish pronunciation rules, I have no

553
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: idea what I've seen his name spelled so many ways

554
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: that I was unsure. Yeah, so it might be had

555
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: him or whole him or something. I'm not sure, probably

556
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: not just harm. Probably that's the way. That's the way

557
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: it's spelled in pronunction in the English pronunciation. So let's

558
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: talk about but we'll just harm. Uh. Well. He was

559
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologist who was working at the Carley Instant,

560
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: the Carolinska Institute. Name sounds familiar. That's that's near where

561
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: the initial bag of body parts was found in Stockholm.

562
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: That was, in of course, ur the body parts. The

563
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: second bag was actually found less than a mile away,

564
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: as I said, And it turns out his the Carolinska

565
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: Institute was in between those two places, in the in

566
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: between in the it was bracketed by those two places. Yeah,

567
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: and physically, and he was a consultant sometimes with the

568
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: police on murders and suspicious deaths because his specialty, that

569
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: makes sense, the forensic pathologists. The specialty was death by strangulation. Yeah,

570
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: he was kind of talking like a Dexter situation. I

571
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: kind of like that, or well, when the tabloids trying

572
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: to make it make it as kind of a Hannibal

573
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: electric kind of situation where he was like this, he

574
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: totally helped the police solve crimes. He was brilliant and

575
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: solved many, many murders. But it turned out, you know,

576
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: he wasn't because he was constantly making killing behind the scenes.

577
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: That he was busy slaughtering people left and right himself,

578
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: according to the tabloids, not necessarily in real life. He

579
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: just realized, I never finished Dexter. I didn't either. I

580
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 1: stopped watching like mid I think it's made it like season.

581
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: We've talked about this matter. I'm sorry, that was just

582
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: the train of thought. I can I can tell you

583
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: how it ends, Okay, well and just go back and

584
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: watch it. Actually what happens as he kills everybody. So

585
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: that's about the end of it and then analyzes their blitzpatter. Yeah. Yeah,

586
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: so back to teit harm. Uh. The fact that he

587
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: was he had this sort of morbid specialty didn't really

588
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: play well with the public, be as you can imagine. Yeah. Uh.

589
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: And what happened is that essentially somebody called the police

590
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: after the body was found, it was all chopped up,

591
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: somebody called the police. Turns out it was his former

592
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: father in law who called the police, yeah, and said

593
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: suggested that he would be a viable suspector before that,

594
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: he was not actually on the police's radar at all.

595
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: The reason his father is his father in law apparently

596
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: never liked him to begin with. But then his wife's

597
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: name was Anne Catherine when he was and she died

598
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: in two she was found strangled to death in their bedroom. Officially, yeah,

599
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: well she was she officially she hanged herself. Yeah, but

600
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: as often happens with amateur amateur hangings, people wind up

601
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: strangling themselves death by Yeah, if you do it right,

602
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, you know, you snapped the snap your neck.

603
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: But if you don't, well you choked to death, which

604
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: was horrible. Yeah, well, it definitely would prolong the situation

605
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: for a bit. Yeah, So she was found hanging from

606
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: the side of her bed with the quarter on her neck,

607
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: and uh, it looked as one of the things that

608
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: was odd about it is she was, according to the press,

609
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: dressed up for a night out, I'm sorry, hanging from

610
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: the side of her bed. I think that this was not,

611
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, like the four poster bed kind of thing,

612
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: is how I picturing. This had to be, you know,

613
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: something that had the tall corner posts and maybe even

614
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: the crossbars up high like that kind of bed, like

615
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: a princess bed. A lot of a lot of suicides.

616
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: By hanging to there, they're actually not dangling over the ground.

617
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: They're actually partly contacting the ground even right well when

618
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: we've talked about that, but I imagine that if she

619
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: was in a situation where she didn't break her neck

620
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: and she was God, we've gone over this so many times.

621
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 1: If she is, you know, she's strangling, any purchase is purchased,

622
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: So I have to I got a feel that it

623
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: was something that was above head high from Yeah, and

624
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: uh that or her husband killed her. It could have

625
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: been actually because she had apparently she was divorcing him,

626
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: which is often considered a murder motive. But what you

627
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: said was, you know, everybody said, well, she was dressed

628
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: up for a night on the town. But it is

629
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: not uncommon for people to say I would like to

630
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: look my best on my last day. Sure I put

631
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: put on all the makeup, do your hair up right,

632
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: put on your best dress, and then for yourself. Sure absolutely,

633
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: you know, but that did seem a little strange, and

634
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: of course the papers printed that which didn't look things

635
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: look so good for Teethe harm police also said that

636
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: his behavior at the time seemed a little callous, but

637
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: you never know. I mean, they were divorcing and it

638
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: might have been all the all the fun had gone

639
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: out of the relationship, and so maybe he was. He's

640
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: a forensic pathologist, though he is around death. That's true too.

641
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: To be to have thick enough skin to be around

642
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff all the time and have it

643
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: not bother you probably means that you have the equivalent

644
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: of the British stiff upper lip. And so when it's

645
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: your wife that dies, nobody knows what you're feeling because

646
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: you were just putting on your workface. I don't know,

647
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, just I guess I would say, like

648
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: we're not right. These forensic just we don't go see

649
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: dead bodies all the time. But we talked about death

650
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: a lot. But I would say that having a recent

651
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: death and experiencing a recent death of somebody that was

652
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: close to me, it's totally different. You know, it's totally

653
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: different to this person. It's like, oh, that's just a

654
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: dead body. That's you know, whatever. Not to be callous,

655
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: but that's that's whatever. To like somebody that you have

656
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: an emotional connection, whether it be kind of like tenuous

657
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: and crappy. This guy wasn't a ghoul. I mean, he

658
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: may very well, but it's hard to tell. There's such

659
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: a spectrum there right where it's like either I mean,

660
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. But again, if it were the police

661
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: who worked closely with him saying I don't know, it

662
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: seemed like he was really unaffected by it, it would

663
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: seem like they would know what unaffected by it would

664
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: mean the police were really after this guy too. So

665
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: that's that's going to color. Some people's recollections often change

666
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: in retro often quite often. Yeah, that's that's fair. And

667
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: again it's hard to say. I mean, people act differently

668
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: understanding situations like this, So hard to say if that

669
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: means much of anything, but that was definitely counted as

670
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: kind of a reason to be a little suspicious of them.

671
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: But anyway, there in the in the end, there was

672
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: really no evidence of murders, so it was declared a

673
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: suicide and the whole thing was dropped. But of course, uh,

674
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: you know, the in laws didn't forget it. Of course, yeah,

675
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: and so and so the father in law did call

676
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: the police, and that's one of course, he got on

677
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: their radar and they did a little research and it

678
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: ever turned out they found that he likes apparently violent pornography,

679
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: which I'm not so sure what that means. That could

680
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: be in somebody that means, yeah, that's a whole range.

681
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: This is pre internet, remember, so it's not as if

682
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: you they can check your browsing history you you buy it.

683
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: In that day and age, it would be a tape, yea.

684
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: So he might have had two pornos and one of

685
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: them was pretty rough and tumble, right. But and then

686
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: that's where I would say, like in an internet age, right,

687
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: like we all do that like click through, click through,

688
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: click through, right where you just like find yourselves in

689
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: this like in the spiral. Oh my God, look at that.

690
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: That was awful what it's going on. But in this

691
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: day and age like that was, you would have to

692
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: seek that out. Well maybe, like I mean probably listen.

693
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: I have seen plenty of porno VHS tapes, and they

694
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: don't always give away that they are all about bondage

695
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: and beatings. They may look like the run of the mill,

696
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: naked people going at it, and then you get home

697
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh god, I paid forty dollars for this,

698
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: and they don't let you return the day. I'm so

699
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: glad that you've just admitted spending board of dollars on

700
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: I just stole him. I don't know what they cost. Yeah, OK,

701
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: So anyway, the you know, I know, they maybe found

702
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,959
Speaker 1: some porn in his possessions when they searched his place,

703
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: or maybe they just talked to associates and found this

704
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: stuff out. I don't know, and it might be too,

705
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if they did find some porn tapes

706
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: in his house. Did they find one or two? Did

707
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: they find so? But he also didn't He also liked

708
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: to engage with prostitutes. He did, he did, he was

709
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: that he he actually when he was when he spoke

710
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: to police. They asked him if he knew, if you

711
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: knew the problem, if you knet Catherine or any of

712
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: the other prostitutes, and he said he'd only done it

713
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: once and that was after he had an argument with

714
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 1: his wife and things were kind of bad, So he'd

715
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: gone to a prostitute once. But when they showed us,

716
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: they showed his picture along with some other suspected perps,

717
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: to the prostitutes in the area down there, and a

718
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: bunch of them, like four dozen picked his picture out.

719
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: So apparently it turns out he was kind of a

720
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: regular down there. Yea, why to them? But those women

721
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: really knew who he was apparently did. Yeah, well, and

722
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: that makes it that really does point the finger at him.

723
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: All these people are saying, oh, yeah, I know he's

724
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 1: down here all the time. Well, it doesn't point the finger,

725
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: but sort of a finger. Yeah, And it puts him

726
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: in proximity to how do you say her name? Yeah,

727
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: it puts him in in the area where she was

728
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: known to hang out. And obviously police don't like being

729
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: lied to. They're very twitchy about that, kind of which

730
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: is weird. Yeah, they don't seem to feel that they

731
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: have to tell me the truth. I call the FBI

732
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: and asked him for information. They won't tell me squat. Yeah,

733
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: and I don't know. The FBI agent that's a signed

734
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: to watch me through my camera has done like pretty

735
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: sad lately. But you know, they have to keep cycling

736
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: a new what's for me? Because they either get committed

737
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: or they commit suicide. Yeah, because they're bored out of

738
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: her mind. Oh my god. All this guy does is

739
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: talked to his freaking cat. Oh anyway, that's the the

740
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: FBI equivalent of Siberia is having to listen to me.

741
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: But he was arrested when they found all this stuff

742
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: about him. He was arrested in December. His house was searched.

743
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: They did find a knife. Oh my god, I knife.

744
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: What the hell? What was he doing with a knife? No? Yeah,

745
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: and no respectable human with a knife. No. I wouldn't

746
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: know a knife, no, nor would I have one. But

747
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,479
Speaker 1: it's designated only to cut up produce tiny little pairing knife,

748
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: isn't it. There's just not a giant knife. It's just

749
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: a weapon of murder. In my in my opinion, in

750
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: my opinion, there's nothing you can do with a knife

751
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: that you cannot do with a gun. So, I mean,

752
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: why would you have a knife? Really? Yeah, why I

753
00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: was gonna say, this is why we don't eat it.

754
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: There maybe some bullet fragments in there. Sorry, I gotta go, Yeah,

755
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: I gotta go. Prepare of the state. Yeah, okay, it's tenderized,

756
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: all right, let's go. But there really actually was not

757
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: any evidence, so, you know, even the knife, the incriminatory knife,

758
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: there was no evidence. They had to let him go.

759
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: And maybe he did it, maybe not. So again, let's

760
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: summarize the arguments for his guilt. He'd probably come into

761
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: contact with Katherine at some point, you know, since he

762
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: had hung out down there. He might because they were

763
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: in the same neighborhoods looking to exchange the same things. Yeah,

764
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: and so he may well have had done business. What's there?

765
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: Even as a pathologist, he would have the tools and

766
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: to know how to chop her body up. Yeah. He

767
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: was an expert on strangulation, which might have been the

768
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: cause of death, although we don't really know that. I mean,

769
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: but I mean it could have been blunt force trauma

770
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: or a gunshot to the head. But and you know,

771
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, if he's the expert, the world's

772
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: leading expert on strangulation. Does that mean you have to

773
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: strangle your murder victims or would you consider it? Why

774
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: you just shoot him in the head? Yeah, how that

775
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: would that work? No? I mean, knowing how to do

776
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: something and wanting to do something are two very different things.

777
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: It's just like saying that he knows how to knows

778
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: all about something doesn't mean that he's also the one

779
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: that turns around them and slices them up into itsy

780
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: bitsy pieces. Yeah. Like, I know, I know people who

781
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: are butchers for example. You know that doesn't mean they're murderers.

782
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: And I was going to say that, um, I went

783
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: to school for costumes. Sorry. My freshman year, we were

784
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: doing a play that required the distressing of a butcher's apron,

785
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: and my costume resign pressor for whatever reason, was like, hey,

786
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: can you distress us? And I was like sure. She's like,

787
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: I want some bloods better on there, and I was

788
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: like okay, and like did something. She was like, how

789
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: do you know what jugular splatter looks like? Though? And

790
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: I was like I don't. I was just putting bloods. Sorry,

791
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm never going to ask you to do that ever, again,

792
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: said I had no idea. I just started cutting on

793
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 1: the home stude. This is what came out, you know, Yeah,

794
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: why she's not in that industry anymore. Yeah, well next time,

795
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: you know what to say, right, Yeah. But and there

796
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: was one other thing is that they talked. Of course,

797
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: they're going to always talk to everybody, you know, colleagues, acquaintances, friends.

798
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: A lot of people apparently, including some of the women

799
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: down the red light districts, said they didn't like him.

800
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: I thought he was kind of scary and creepy. But

801
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: then again, you know, you know, I feel like you

802
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: can't discount that gut feeling that people have about people,

803
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: you know, but you also can't rely. You can't when

804
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: you're being pushed on by the police to scumberg. Yeah,

805
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: but I think I think it's like it's that weird,

806
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: like you can use that to fuel who you might investigate.

807
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: Everybody been influencing, Yeah, I mean, I think if everybody

808
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: who you're interviewing says, no, he seemed really creepy and weird,

809
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: you might go with that suspect more. It would make sense,

810
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: it would say, would it would probably influence your investigation

811
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: just a little bit of all these people are have

812
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: a bad feeling about this guy. The problem with he

813
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: harm is he he's what I would consider a victim

814
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: of what somebody wrote to us today in our timeline,

815
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: not when this podcast released. Timeline um is the phenomenon

816
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: of locking in and locking out, locking in on your

817
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: subject and therefore locking out all other information that might

818
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: prove that that's wrong. All they care about is whatever

819
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: a little factoid fits their theory, right, Oh, this beautiful?

820
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: That No, that doesn't matter. This yes, this, yes, No,

821
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: that's the rest of that is all garbage. Get it

822
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: out of here. I know, I mean because that's and

823
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: definitely I tend to do the same thing, and like

824
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: even on our podcast, I tend to pay more focused

825
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: attention on the things that confirmed the theory that I have. Yeah. Yeah,

826
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: and if I get of course, if I get enough information,

827
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: then well I will change up my theory. I'm not

828
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: that bad. I hope that, you know. Definitely, you know

829
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: things that come to my engine that makes me right.

830
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: I recently come an infographic that I'll show I'll share

831
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: with you guys later, but it was all of these

832
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 1: different kind of biases that we have that are underlying yeah,

833
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting to kind of think about, like,

834
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: apparently people also give bias to like if the information

835
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: is more recent, they give more weight to it, which

836
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: is crazy, but that's true apparently, you know. And then

837
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: also you look for the information that will confirm what

838
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: you believe. It's confirmation bias. And yeah, there's certainly areas

839
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: where the most recent information is the best, like say

840
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: market economics or real estate, you know, but science. Yeah,

841
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: according that, we're talking about our vampire doctor doctor. Yeah,

842
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: let's see what else do you got beside him being creepy?

843
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: What else? Of course, the body parts were found close

844
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: to where he worked. Every good idiot knows, dump the

845
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: body parts by your job, yea, just on your way

846
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: to work. Just check him out the car with that.

847
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 1: That's what I do with apple cores all the time him. Yeah,

848
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: so we got so that's all the time. Yeah. But

849
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: the weekly World Wound News, so you've probably heard of them.

850
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: They're they're a pretty respectable tabloid, and they in April

851
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: they probablyshed an article about him, and they came up

852
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: with some extra information. They called him the mad vampire doc.

853
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: And you guys have seen the article, Yeah, said that

854
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: he had committed at least six other quote vampire slayings

855
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: unquote besides cataline um, and they were definitely vampire. He

856
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: had secrets. According to them, he had a secret statue

857
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: of twenty human brains in his freezer at home. So

858
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: I appreciate that you were including this for the comic

859
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: relief of Oh my god, the Weekly World News. But

860
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: this is this is just such slander as garden. Oh yeah, yes, yes,

861
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: but I thought I just tossed in so you get

862
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: a sort of a flavor for how nuts this case can.

863
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: It is a great example of how far this thing

864
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 1: went off. I read uh comments from some certain Sweedish

865
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: citizens who said they considered this case to been a

866
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: national embarrassment for the way the police handled the trial

867
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 1: and everything, and then the way they built their case.

868
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: His teeth and somebody else We're going to find out

869
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: about here in a moment. Let's go there. Yeah, here's

870
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: what But here's what the Weekly World News said about this.

871
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: He uh about Catherine, and they said he lured her

872
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: back home or to his morgue and then decapitated her

873
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: with the power saw and then invited a friend over

874
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: to quote join him in a banquet of human flesh

875
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: and blood unquote, and then they retired to their separate confidence.

876
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah apparently, uh, and then they did. About a year later,

877
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: they published another article saying that one of the TETs

878
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: victims had risen from the dead was on the brink

879
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: of becoming a vampire like him because she was a zombie,

880
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: but she was an upgrade to vampire status had enough

881
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: hit points. Yeah, and so so anyway, so he's a vampire. Okay,

882
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: we got that, all right, So well, let's let's go

883
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: on to our next theory. Next purp or purpose this

884
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: this purpose, this is uh teeth harm and Thomas og

885
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: this is like they Yeah, so nobody's saying that. Nobody

886
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: seems to be saying that Algan committed the murders by himself.

887
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: But some people have said, like for example, the World

888
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: News weekly World News thinks that he was sort of

889
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: an evil sidekick to Yeah, that kind of side were

890
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: doing it. So they knew each other. They had worked together.

891
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: They were both doctors, was a general practitioner, and they

892
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: worked together for about a year and a half and

893
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: a hospital in Stockholm, and so they knew each other that.

894
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: I don't think they were besties, but they had known

895
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: each other from work and stuff. I think they might

896
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: have been blood blood brothers. Okay, alright, come on, come on,

897
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: let's get so. If you remember that that article I

898
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: mentioned a few minutes ago, Thomas Thomas Algan is the

899
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: friend who was invited over to feast on even on

900
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: human flesh, and he was the dude. Yeah, and it's funny.

901
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: In the article he managed to this spell not just

902
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: his first name, was his last name. Also. They misspelled

903
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: it they both names. Well, that's a way to avoid

904
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: getting a charge of slander. What it wasn't you we

905
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: were talking. I'm kind of surprised they didn't get charged.

906
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 1: I bet you they did. Their lawyers said, don't spell

907
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: that guy's name correctly, so people will correct it in

908
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: their minds, but we cannot directly be accused of doing that.

909
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: How the Weekly World News isn't constantly getting slander suits.

910
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: I have no idea boy at this point should own

911
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: that place magic maam, Yeah, that's anyway. Sorry, that's okay,

912
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: that's a that's a question for So why does Thomas

913
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: A well he was when it was arrested. In eighty four,

914
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: the papers published that a young doctor had been a

915
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: rested as a suspect Thomas Elegan was separated from his wife,

916
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: Christina at the time, and they had a young daughter

917
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: who was about two years old, who was unnamed in

918
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: the press, So we will call her. What do you

919
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: think Jane? Yeah, Jane Doe, Sally, Jane Doe. Sally, Jane Doe.

920
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: You like Jane do color Jane Doe? So they were there,

921
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: was said, separated, says, you know, these things often can

922
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: turn a little bit ugly with separations, and especially when Yeah,

923
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: so she had been claiming that Thomas had molested Jane Doe,

924
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: the daughter, and he had been investigated for this. And

925
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. How old was the daughter again? She was

926
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: I think at the time that the actual allegations were made,

927
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: she was about a year and a half old. And

928
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: then by seventeen seventeen months, yeah, seventeen eighteen muchs And

929
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: I think by the time that was arrested in Christmas

930
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: or exe me in December four, she would have been

931
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: about two, about two. But yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sure

932
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: you said that before. I just yeah, to clarify used

933
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: of molesting his two year old daughter. Yeah, he was,

934
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: and they found no evidence of it. Yeah, but it's investigated,

935
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: they decided there was no evidence, They decided that charges

936
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: were unfounded, and then they they there was just another

937
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: ugly divorce. Yea. They decided to take no further action. Um.

938
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: But then after got arrested Christina Hears. That's that a

939
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: young doctor had been arrested in this incredibly notorious murder.

940
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: She called the police and just and just said, hey,

941
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: did you did you arrest Teete Harms? He the guy?

942
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: The police apparently confirmed it. Well, that's a that's a

943
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: good They're just really bad A thousand here there's okay, yeah,

944
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: because I don't know, I mean, like a little bit.

945
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 1: I feel like if somebody called and like if I

946
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: called it an investigation and she has as a public citizen,

947
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: she has no there's no reason to disclose that to

948
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 1: her until such, I mean, she's proven to be involved.

949
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: But like if I called and I was like, hey,

950
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: did you're a Steve in this? They would probably why

951
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: are you asking? What is your involvement? What's your relationship?

952
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: Like there would be a whole bunch of stuff and

953
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 1: you'd have to prove good reason. But maybe maybe she said,

954
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: well I know his accomplice, and they said then yes, yeah,

955
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that's what it was, because and I said, hey,

956
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: did you arrested for this? And they were like, why

957
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: do you know? And I was like, well, because I

958
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: know Joe the accomplice. They were like, then, yeah, we

959
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: did well. Since we've left Logictown, I'm going to take

960
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: a nap, let me know. And we we get back

961
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: into the room about a page and half away. Whatever

962
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: the circumstances of this whole thing where the police essentially

963
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: confirmed it to her, and we don't know, like I said,

964
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: Devin might she might have called in and said I've

965
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: got information you might need. You got it? We don't know.

966
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: So she fingers the the X as being involved. Yeah,

967
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: And and it turns out she and she had met

968
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: teat a few years before when Thomas brought him home

969
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: for dinner, and apparently she taken an instant dislike to him,

970
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: and so she was not because if he could bathe

971
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: in the meat loaf, probably yeah, yeah, just maybe he

972
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: spent the whole dinner just talking about strangulation or something.

973
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that he necessarily had a winning personality,

974
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: but probably not. If this many people didn't like him. Yeah,

975
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: And I don't think it was right in December anyfore,

976
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: but not too long after that, Christina went to the

977
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: police and said that her daughter, Jane Doe, it was

978
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: eighteen months old at the time of the murder, was

979
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: saying stuff that indicated to her that she was present

980
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: when Cataline's body had been cut up, and by this

981
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,240
Speaker 1: part of the story is this thing just keeps going

982
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 1: further and further off the rails for me, Like just yeah,

983
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: I mean this is not this this this investigation did

984
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: not really go well. Yeah, and it's hard for me

985
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: with like two year old they say, I mean, like

986
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: the kid sings Mommy and daddy say all, it's not

987
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: necessarily that. It's just like there's a lot of and

988
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: we haven't done shows on this per se because I

989
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: know you have a good reason feel about this situation.

990
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: But like there's a lot of stuff that kids say

991
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: that like would lead one to believe that like reincarnation

992
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: is real, right, because sometimes like kids are talking like

993
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: at length and in like incredible detail about stuff that

994
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 1: they should have no understanding of whatsoever. But that doesn't

995
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: mean that they have actually right, that doesn't mean they've

996
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: actually experienced that in their current life. Kids have a

997
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: lot of active imaginations or maybe it is this weird whatever.

998
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we at some point could probably talk for

999
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: at least three hours about what that sort of thing means.

1000
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: But I'm not willing to ever say that like what

1001
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: a two year old is saying accurately reflects what they've

1002
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: experienced in life. No, probably not, you know, probably not.

1003
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: But you can't use that as testimony in proof. Well, yeah,

1004
00:55:58,360 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: I mean that's the kind of the way I would

1005
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: look at it too. But apparently apparently the police kind

1006
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 1: of bought it. Yeah, apparently they. By the way, according

1007
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 1: to Jane Doe, the child Teete harm was also present.

1008
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't, so it's not just Thomas, Thomas and Tete

1009
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: who were chopping up the body. So the double t

1010
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 1: s we're cutting her up. Yeah, and the little girl

1011
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: was the later girl was there? Yeah? Yeah, And I'm

1012
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: not sure what to make of it except I think

1013
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: this is probably the at least divorce of all time. Yeah,

1014
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: I think, probably not the ugliest, but it's one of

1015
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,320
Speaker 1: them that's out there. Yeah. Or maybe Christina sincerely believed

1016
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: that she was accurately reporting everything that her daughter was saying,

1017
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: but again, because of her age, I I really have

1018
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: a hard time believing. And I really feel like she

1019
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 1: was saying things that probably let her daughter to repeat things.

1020
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: That's problem with with kids, and this kind of thing

1021
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 1: is hard to tell, especially at two planted or it's

1022
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: maybe not but a lot of times. But I mean,

1023
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: like even adults can be misled. You know, you can

1024
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: say to an adult like, well, didn't you see that

1025
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: person with a white hat? And we talked again, like

1026
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: a great, yeah, this is a great example again, like

1027
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 1: what we were talking about in the last episode when Amy,

1028
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, you're going around, you're saying,

1029
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: did you see this girl? You know she might have

1030
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: been with bikers. She was a vegetarian, and people like, oh, yeah,

1031
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: I remember she did vegetarians. Yeah, and she was with

1032
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: two bikers. That's weird, right, I mean, you can human

1033
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,439
Speaker 1: memory such a weird thing, especially at two years old.

1034
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: I definitely miss remember stuff. But anyway, but we've got

1035
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: a two year old girl. How do they proved that

1036
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: or how do they decide that what this kid is saying? Well,

1037
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: they enlisted a child psychologist and a child psychiatrist to

1038
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: examine her and listen to her testimony and stuff, and

1039
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: they apparently decided their professional opinion was her her evidence

1040
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: was credible. How they had arrived at that conclusion, I

1041
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: don't really know that, but I send up. I mean,

1042
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, but you know that's you guys don't but

1043
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: I'm standing out of the rest of that. That's not

1044
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: enough of not enough epence. Well, then there's something like photo.

1045
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: There was another thing that happened, But this didn't happen

1046
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: until fall eighty seven, when this couple came forward. This

1047
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: is wait, wait, wait eight seven. The murder happens in

1048
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: four three years after, yeah, three years after. I just

1049
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: want to make sure I got that timeline right. Yeah,

1050
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: And they on this photoshop that was I think it's

1051
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: somewhere near the Caroline Ska Institute. And they came forward

1052
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: and told the police that they had developed a roll

1053
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: of film and printed photographs and the role had turned

1054
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: out to have images of a chopped up human body.

1055
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: Which is when did they say they developed that film?

1056
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: That would have been around like summer, so about the time. Yeah,

1057
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm right about that time. They said that they they

1058
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: and their employees were appalled and disgusted, but they did

1059
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: it anyway, But they didn't report to the police. Why Yeah,

1060
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: that's that's that's my first is if you were if

1061
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: you were to, especially when you're in the days of

1062
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 1: analog film process and god, we're doing this again. It's

1063
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: a it's a thing that it was a known fact

1064
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: that if you saw, oh wait, you're making porn, we

1065
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: have to report you. Oh look, you have what appears

1066
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: to be a dead human being, we have to report you.

1067
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: You just don't go. So that was really gross, and

1068
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: don't do that again like that. That's not the way

1069
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: that works. Yeah, I don't. I don't know what exactly

1070
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: exactly why they just sort of let this thing sliding

1071
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: intil the cops. Apparently what happens that two young men

1072
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: brought the role of film in for development and told

1073
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: them that there's there's gonna be some unsettling stuff on

1074
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: these pictures, but this is part of a top secret investigation,

1075
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, So please don't tell anybody, and please just

1076
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, don't look at the pictures or anything like that.

1077
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: Then there's no need to call the police, you know.

1078
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: And and so from an air point of view, if

1079
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: it would have been top secret, if they had actually

1080
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: killed somebody and shopped at the Audie, right, that's that'd

1081
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: be a big secret I'd want to keep. Of course,

1082
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't take the film to be developed either. No,

1083
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: I learned how to develop my own film. I feel like, Yeah,

1084
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: police labs usually have people who are capable of that.

1085
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: That's crazy. That's the yeah of the thing is what

1086
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: top Yeah exactly. Yeah, you would think that they would

1087
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: have their own lab if they were it was actually

1088
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: a police investige. I'm not a fan of any of them.

1089
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: You go down to the police like, hey, Hans, um,

1090
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: so this is film we shot from this scene. Can

1091
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: you develop it for us? Big deal? Hans doesn't give

1092
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: a crap because he's he's that stuff all the time. Yeah, yeah,

1093
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: for sure, if you don't go to the public photo market. Also,

1094
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: Hans knows you work for the police exactly, that you

1095
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: worked there. Uh. Yeah. And the only thing I think is, uh,

1096
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're decided that your department is full

1097
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: of corrupt cops and and so you gotta go like

1098
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: off the grid to get this stuff taken care of. That.

1099
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: That makes no sense because we've never heard from these

1100
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 1: guys exactly any stories about like where they had why

1101
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: they had to go out side normal channels to get

1102
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: this film developed, they never said anything about that, so, uh,

1103
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: we can just count that. So of course naturally they

1104
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: wanted to know who these human were, at least did,

1105
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: and so they they put They put I think Thomas

1106
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: Oligan and I don't know if they put Teet harm

1107
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: in the same line up at the same time or

1108
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: different lineups or what. But apparently they picked Thomas Oligan

1109
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: out of the police lineup as one of the two

1110
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: young men who had brought the film in. And apparently

1111
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: they also picked out Teet although they weren't quite as

1112
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: sure about him. Yeah, had there been news coverage of

1113
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: these cars, sure, I'm sure there have been plenty so

1114
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: that things that, but apparently this was this would say,

1115
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, so they got this is what they've got

1116
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: for their case. They've got a little kid who was

1117
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: eighteen months old who you know, and and and then

1118
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: they've got these people. Let's say they brought in this

1119
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,439
Speaker 1: role of film and so five years later, that's about

1120
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 1: the gist of their case here. But they were arrested

1121
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: October eighties seven, nighties seven. They were convicted, vert was

1122
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: thrown out because of jury misconduct and because it was

1123
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: this media circus and they were all there. They were, Yeah,

1124
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: they were talking to the press when they shouldn't have been,

1125
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: and so that was that was there was essentially kind

1126
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: of a mistrial. I don't know if they call it

1127
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: a mistrial in Sweden or not, but there was a

1128
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: big outcry about the mistrial. So there was a second

1129
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: trial and then they were acquitted, which seems about right

1130
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: to me, because you have it's against them even if

1131
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: they were the killers. I'm sorry, I can't. I can't

1132
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: support sending anybody into prison on that on that basis

1133
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: that I mean, it's it's tough, right because like what

1134
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 1: we know about both of them is that, like both

1135
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: of them have been accused of being kind of like

1136
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: horrible humans in their personal life and also or possibly

1137
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 1: right but I said, the accused of being like kind

1138
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: of horrible people in their personal life, and like also

1139
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: maybe had these pictures. Yeah, but that's it, that's about it.

1140
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: But it's tough because I feel like both right, I

1141
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: don't know what I would do and think about about

1142
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: having pictures like that. Like I have a friend who's

1143
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 1: a really good guy who did a tour in Iraq

1144
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: a while back. Yeah, we talked about this before he

1145
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: showed me a bunch of pictures that he brought back

1146
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: from there, and some of them are frankly, very disturbing. Yeah,

1147
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: last week as hell, you know. And he's a nice guy,

1148
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: but he has these pictures and it's not because he's

1149
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: some sort of weird disaster porn freak. I think he

1150
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: just wants to document his time over there. And I

1151
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: think that feels different though, well, I think you'd probably

1152
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: get used to that kind of stuff too, you see

1153
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: enough of it. And so for these guys and having

1154
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: a you know, all sorts of weird crime scene pictures

1155
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: is not that weird at all for them. So wait, wait, wait,

1156
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: speaking of crime scene pictures, was a teat that was

1157
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 1: known to send stuff unsolicited to people, Yeah, he did.

1158
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: He was supposedly sent sent like postmortem reports with photos

1159
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: and everything unsolicited to people, to people he knew. Well,

1160
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure you know what kind of people.

1161
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean if you send him like to say, you're

1162
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: people he knew friends or whatever, but I and I'm

1163
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: not sure what the context was because like, for example,

1164
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: if it's a fellow mortician or doctor or not excuse me,

1165
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 1: not more titian, but a fellow forensic police person or something,

1166
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: and you just send him something like, Wow, this is this,

1167
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: this is really interesting, checkout page seven or something like that.

1168
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, or it could mean he was sort

1169
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: of sending it in laws or yeah, I don't know,

1170
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: or it could mean to him it was kind of

1171
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: the equivalent of porn. I don't know. It might have

1172
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: just been showing stuff a professional and interest to other people.

1173
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: I really don't know. Again, the case against these guys

1174
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: is just not great. Especially the one thing I didn't

1175
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: mention was just the whole idea, well, you sort of

1176
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: touched on it. You're gonna have your eighteen year old

1177
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: kid in front of old kid, excuse me, when you're

1178
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: carving up a corpse and chopping the head off. I

1179
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: find that hard to believe. They don't sit still. Yeah,

1180
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: they don't sit still. They're going to be running around

1181
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: while you're trying to do stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, so

1182
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: I know. But so again, even though the case against

1183
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: him was not that great, that doesn't necessarily mean they're innocent.

1184
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: I think most likely they didn't do it. There was

1185
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 1: probably probably some of this was grudges. I mean, the

1186
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: in law has definitely had a grudge against them obviously.

1187
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: Obviously the ex wife who alleged childhood and all this

1188
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: had a grudge against against her husband, Thoma Tom Thomas Ogan.

1189
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: And so it's hard to believe that the police gave

1190
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: that much weight incredibility to these people. Um, and so

1191
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: I got I got to rule these two kind of

1192
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: out of suspects. Um. Everything just feels so circumstantial and

1193
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: mismanaged against them that I can't with a good clear

1194
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: conscious say, oh, yeah, I still think they did it.

1195
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: It's tough though, again, right because it's like I do

1196
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: feel like they're like not good humans. Being a dirt

1197
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: bag doesn't mean that you're a murdering killer who dices

1198
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: people up in your spiritime. So are there other theories here? Well,

1199
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: that's a few. That's you know. Another theory would be, well,

1200
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: it's just somebody else entirely that we just haven't heard of.

1201
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: And we've got these these suspects that we've named three

1202
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: of them so far, But it could have been another

1203
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: serial killer. The and and that's that's kind of just punting,

1204
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: I know, but you know, really obviously it could be.

1205
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: We don't know, We never will know. We don't have

1206
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: any other theories of people who were firm. No, not

1207
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: at all. No, that's just just the river draft the

1208
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: ripper kind of guy. Um. But of course the statute

1209
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: of limitations ran out in that. I think the original

1210
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: statute of years ago for us. Yeah, yeah, it was

1211
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: twenty five years for murder in Sweden spent. Apparently they've

1212
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: changed that now it's it doesn't There is no statute

1213
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 1: of limitation, which I feel like makes sense, right, Like,

1214
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: there are certain crimes where I'm like, you know what,

1215
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: that should never run out if we could prove that

1216
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: an expiration data. Yeah, there should never be really, yeah,

1217
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: certain crimes probably maybe like you steal a candy bar

1218
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: when you're eight, like fine, maybe you like murder somebody

1219
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: in up to their body. Maybe you never get to

1220
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: get away from it. Are saying I'm off the hook

1221
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: forrillo candy bars. I still as a kid, I'm not.

1222
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: Your body still has to deal with that, not to

1223
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: mention your conscience, but yeah, it I was just like,

1224
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: I don't have to duck the law anymore. Yeah, sorry,

1225
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: but yeah, glad you admitted it. Well, I'm just gonna

1226
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: keep not finding my taxes will never find me a lot, dude, Yeah,

1227
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: I mindly, minly quibble about trying a case that's older

1228
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: than twenty five years is that memories are there, and say,

1229
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: if they want to accuse me, how am I going

1230
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: to come up with an alibi? Where would they go?

1231
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: Where am I going to find anywhere? Are they going

1232
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: to find any reliable witnesses? So that in theory, Well,

1233
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 1: but I guess like something that old is so hard. Sure,

1234
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 1: but the way that trial seemed to go, especially of

1235
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: like murder or something of that kind of seriousness go

1236
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: these days, juries seem to require, at least in the

1237
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: last ten or so years, scientific evidence, right, So they

1238
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: seem to require DNA, they seem to require kind of

1239
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: forensic evidence of some kind. So I I mean, granted

1240
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 1: they are fallible, but I would suspect that no reasonable

1241
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: prosecutor would bring a case against somebody, especially when a

1242
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 1: serious as this without some kind of really solid forensic evidence.

1243
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: And that seems to not be as sure. I mean,

1244
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 1: like there are some fallibility. There is certainly not just fallibility,

1245
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: there is outright prosecutorial abuse. Absolutely. Yeah. We talked about

1246
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: like not typically and we talked about you know, like

1247
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 1: bite mark forensic that's not real right, there's a lot

1248
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 1: of friends evidence that's not that's actively being proven thought

1249
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: that we used to considerately infallible or at least highly reliable,

1250
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: like hair analogy inallible. Yeah, yes, totally has totally been

1251
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: shown to be well, not quite so privilege as we

1252
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: thought it was. Totally. But I feel like if somebody,

1253
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,599
Speaker 1: but I do feel like if somebody were like listen,

1254
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 1: within like you know what thousands like a thousand to

1255
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,560
Speaker 1: one this person DNA was found on this body that

1256
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: was chopped up, you might want to at least to

1257
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: launch an investigation without saying right, but I mean without

1258
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: saying like, you know, listen, it was years ago, so

1259
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: we were only care anymore, like maybe just yeah, no,

1260
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: sometimes you want to get an answer. I totally understand that.

1261
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: And that's since we are in the business of solving

1262
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: and solve mysteries. Obviously, you know I'm pro solving that mystery. Yeah, totally. Yeah,

1263
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: But like I said, sometimes it's a little unfair when

1264
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 1: that not much time has gone. I can be there

1265
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: can there can be an element uncircumstance evidence alone. Absolutely,

1266
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: ah yeah. But anyway to wrap up our case here,

1267
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: the apparently in I think we mentioned this earlier. The

1268
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: Prosecutor General did apply for a search warrant to obtain

1269
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: those tissue samples that have been collected, and they were

1270
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: being held at yeah, for stand and they were being

1271
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: held at the Caroline SKA Hospital. Uh. And so they

1272
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: apparently they wanted to see there there was the original bag.

1273
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 1: There was like a blue towel next to the bag,

1274
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: and then had some hair airs on it which were

1275
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 1: saved by the police. And all they want to do was,

1276
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 1: I guess, compared DNA and the tissue samples from stand

1277
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,640
Speaker 1: to the DNA and those hairs and see if they

1278
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 1: could actually establish a connection. Not that it would be proof,

1279
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,479
Speaker 1: but it'd be well, you know, it might be enough

1280
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: to actually resolve the case to everybody's satisfaction. Uh. And

1281
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, nothing I ever have I have not

1282
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: heard anything about how they're testing went. And maybe it's

1283
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,600
Speaker 1: still in the queue. Yeah, maybe you know. And so

1284
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: it's you know, I want to I want to give

1285
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: everybody the benefit of the doubt and believe the best

1286
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: of everyone. That's nice of you. Yeah, I don't know, no,

1287
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: but I'll accept you to. But but I'm not the

1288
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: first person who mentioned this. Uh, considering their conduct in

1289
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: the case, considering the two lives were destroyed. If it

1290
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: turned out that stands DNA max those hairs found there

1291
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,839
Speaker 1: after everything they did to Teethe Harm and Thomas Oligan,

1292
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 1: then oh my god. They I could see where there

1293
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: might be a little embarrassment. Well, here's the worst part

1294
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: is that that Ten Thomas both sued the state and

1295
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: they were told no, you you can't do this at

1296
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: freaking bad. They had their medical licenses taken away. They

1297
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 1: have gainful employment that they are you know, highly trained for,

1298
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: they cannot practice. They cannot yet in Sweden at least. Yeah,

1299
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 1: probably anyway, Yeah, kind of a feeling. They probably would

1300
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: have a hard time. I think most place. I think

1301
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: the stink has followed them everywhere. I have no idea

1302
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 1: how what those guys do for a living or how

1303
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 1: they survive. But selling their story to tabloids, Yeah maybe,

1304
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 1: but and so it might be kind of tough. Yes,

1305
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: it might be. You could even see it from like

1306
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 1: not wanting to pay up millions of dollars for prosecution

1307
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 1: or anything like that, they might just sort of sit

1308
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: on the results. If it turned out the results, you know,

1309
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 1: actually exonerated these two and so maybe that's what happened.

1310
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: I think for me, Stan is the obvious best suspect

1311
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: you and you know, I wouldn't send I don't think

1312
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 1: there's enough evidence that even send him away unless the

1313
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 1: d n A test did come back positive. Yeah, and

1314
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 1: even then it's kind of like you have to then

1315
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: be able to actually link that towel to the crime,

1316
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, because right next to the bag. Well, like,

1317
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 1: even then though, I mean, I would say, you know,

1318
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 1: the chances of somebody just having the really really serious

1319
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: unfortunate luck unless haircut next to the bag of body

1320
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:33,680
Speaker 1: unbeknown to him, I would say that's that's enough for me.

1321
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 1: Probably it would be enough to shut well. And he died,

1322
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: So I guess maybe, you know, it's kind of like,

1323
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, find in the case, of course, these

1324
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: statute of limitation is expired, so nobody can be he

1325
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 1: can't be prosecuted for it, even if they can match

1326
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: his DNA him. But at least, you know, at least

1327
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 1: for these these other people that have been accused, at

1328
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: least they would get some resolution, you would think. But

1329
01:12:57,360 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 1: I think you know again that that whole trial by

1330
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: public opinion is rough to ever overcome it said. That's

1331
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: one of the reasons too, why it's it's important for

1332
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: the police when they're investigating somebody to kind of, you know,

1333
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: keep a lid on the whole thing. Yeah, so you

1334
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 1: don't destroy people's lives, you know. But anyway, that's enough

1335
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 1: of editorializing for me. That is our story. Katina by

1336
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: the Mad Vampire by the Mad Vampire Doc. Yes, yes, exactly.

1337
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: You're probably gonna be wanting to, Oh, did you guys

1338
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: have any more therorizing before? I know, I'm not going

1339
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 1: to steer into weekly world news garbage zones. Well we will,

1340
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 1: I know. I know that all of our listeners are

1341
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:40,800
Speaker 1: gonna want to read that article, so we will post

1342
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: a link to it on our website along with really

1343
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: can't they just go to murder Pedia and see the

1344
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 1: crap fest that is this story? Oh yeah, they put

1345
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,559
Speaker 1: a lot of crapfest that the murder Pedia has got

1346
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: some bad, some really ludicrous stuff on there. They bought

1347
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: was seriously drunk that day. Yeah, murder Media took a

1348
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: little credibility head for me, at least when I read

1349
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 1: their page on these guys on this murder and I

1350
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: used to think there were somewhat reliable, not perfect, but

1351
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: you know someone I don't think so anyway, So so yeah,

1352
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 1: the but but we'll have links on our website, which

1353
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where you can download

1354
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,720
Speaker 1: the episodes, you can buy merch yes, T shirts and

1355
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: mugs and all sorts of good stuff, and read some

1356
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 1: of our research that we will we will link to. Also,

1357
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: of course you're you're probably gonna want to send us

1358
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 1: an email about this, of course you will. So. Our

1359
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: email address is thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.

1360
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,599
Speaker 1: Oh and what else? We're on Facebook and other social

1361
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 1: media outlets, or on Facebook where we have a page

1362
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,679
Speaker 1: and a group, so like the page, joined the group

1363
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 1: and answer the questions. They're easy. There's like two of them,

1364
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: right yeah yeah uh, and a lot of activity going on. There.

1365
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: Were also on Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways. Lots

1366
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 1: of great stuff there, including pictures of my cats. Yeah yeah.

1367
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 1: And what else? Photo Instagram. It's not photo Instagram. We

1368
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: are on Instagram now where we are Thinking Sideways Podcast.

1369
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 1: Don't go to the Thinking Sideways only guys because they

1370
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: are up to no good. Who knows what they're doing? Yeah,

1371
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 1: they follow it from our page. It's way easy, very

1372
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 1: very good. Also we have a subreddit, thinking sideways whether

1373
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: there's any good activity out there, by the way lately

1374
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: always it's so far in the future. Why do you

1375
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: ask this question? She's not really a time traveler even

1376
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 1: that we accuse E thinks I'm the doctor. Yeah, okay,

1377
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 1: so there's stuff going on there. What else I'm agine

1378
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: you can find our episodes on our website. There's other

1379
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: places you'd find them to believe it or not. We're

1380
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 1: on iTunes where you can also besides finding the episodes,

1381
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:52,800
Speaker 1: you can subscribe. You can also leave a review, leave

1382
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 1: a rating. We like high ratings like that would be

1383
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: a five. That's our preference. Uh. And also you can

1384
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 1: find us on streaming services like Stitcher and some of

1385
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: the other ones. Take a name, but I'll just leave

1386
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,639
Speaker 1: it at Stitcher. All right. Well, that's it for this week.

1387
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: So until next week, Chaw heads off to you.