Speaker 1: On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked movies have
Speaker 1: women in um? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and
Speaker 1: welcome to the beck Del Cast. This is our this
Speaker 1: is our best episode yet. My name is Jamie, my
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin, and welcome to the best episode of
Speaker 1: the Beckdel Cast. You're ever going to hear in your
Speaker 1: goddamn life. This is uh podcast about the role of
Speaker 1: women in movies today. What is it about? I guess
Speaker 1: we'll just find out wit movie today. It's more like
Speaker 1: an Alfred Moina themed fan show kind of I don't know,
Speaker 1: like the celebration of him and his career. We should
Speaker 1: have warned our guests how much we will probably talk
Speaker 1: about Alfred what's his name? Oh my god, Alfred Molina. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I had a stroke, but um, Jamie's obsessed with Alfred Molina.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to steer the conversation away. He rush
Speaker 1: had a large poster. We should have sent an email.
Speaker 1: I had a large poster of Dot Dock in my room.
Speaker 1: My parents thought I like comics. I was just all
Speaker 1: horned up for Alfred. Wait, but so he's not exactly
Speaker 1: the choose your words poster child of sex icon and
Speaker 1: Spiderman too, not at a cake, so it still works
Speaker 1: for you. I got into the beefcakes very early. All right,
Speaker 1: real quick, So we'll give you a proper introduction. But
Speaker 1: first let's just dive right into. So we have a
Speaker 1: podcast inspired by the back Doel test, which requires that
Speaker 1: the movie, the show, the comic book, whenever story you're consuming.
Speaker 1: It requires that there are two female characters who have names,
Speaker 1: who talk to each other in the conversation has to
Speaker 1: be about something other than a man. We talked about that,
Speaker 1: we talked about how women are portrayed just in general
Speaker 1: in the movie, and we have a great time. As
Speaker 1: you said, best episode yet, Yeah, this is our I
Speaker 1: would guess around our thirty fifth episode pretty close, and
Speaker 1: I would say we've talked about al from Mollina and
Speaker 1: I would say at least seven of those episodes conservatively, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe thirty four. I don't know if we mentioned him
Speaker 1: in like the Heather's episode, but but maybe. But sometimes
Speaker 1: he finds a way. Is he's such a character actor
Speaker 1: that sometimes you see another character actor, and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I wish I had been out from Mollina, but he did. Fine,
Speaker 1: That's how I feel about most beefcake character actors, like
Speaker 1: no Alfred Mollina. But yeah, he did the job he
Speaker 1: was paid to do. So before we get too carried
Speaker 1: away with a from Molina, let's introduce our guest. He
Speaker 1: writes in draws graphic novels. He is writing Iceman for
Speaker 1: Marvel right now. He also has a graphic novel called
Speaker 1: Nothing Last Forever Seen a Grace, which, you know what
Speaker 1: fighting words between me two. Alright, I'm not involved. We'll
Speaker 1: hash this out over the course of an hour. We'll
Speaker 1: figure this out. Let's see how I do the movie.
Speaker 1: The movie we're talking about today is Spider Man two Parentheses,
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. In case you're like, oh, what
Speaker 1: if it's the Andrew Garfield, No, and it's not. It's Toby.
Speaker 1: It's it's Toby. Should we say it like Jennifer Connelly
Speaker 1: and Labyrinth Toby? Oh my god, I forgot that. That's
Speaker 1: how Because Toby is the baby right, oh right, baby
Speaker 1: Toby Toby McGuire. We can make the argument of this
Speaker 1: maybe perhaps being the peak of Toby McGuire's career so far.
Speaker 1: I think he's got another he's got a second wind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is this, you know, his biggest role. Um,
Speaker 1: I do great. I think he's a really fun Spider Man.
Speaker 1: I like him. What he's all right? All right, well
Speaker 1: what do you think seeing that he looks like Peter Parker,
Speaker 1: Like you can't shake that, but he does this. Uh
Speaker 1: he just kind of like looks dumb the whole time,
Speaker 1: like he's like, oh, I'm sorry, Imlee, And he's laid
Speaker 1: a lot in this movie a couple of different plot points.
Speaker 1: They really just like because the last time I saw this,
Speaker 1: I was in high school and like saying this as
Speaker 1: a grown up, I'm like, man, they just really beat
Speaker 1: down the themes on the viewer, like they're just like,
Speaker 1: all right, our average viewer is seven, so we really
Speaker 1: need to just be like Peter Parker is always late
Speaker 1: because he's Spider Man and he doesn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: There's been a disturbance, that's his line. There were disturbance.
Speaker 1: That's why I was late to your play. And it's like,
Speaker 1: just tell everyone if I was Spider Man, I tell everybody.
Speaker 1: I tweeted every day. Hey everyone, I'm Spiderman. Give me
Speaker 1: money crowdfund. Yeah, yeah, Spiderman Patreon the crowd Yeah, that
Speaker 1: would work. Probably. Yeah, I will say that. In this
Speaker 1: movie tell me reguire. There's so much physical humor. He's
Speaker 1: doing straight up slapstick McGuire. There's that scene at the
Speaker 1: beginning where there's like the mops in the closet and
Speaker 1: he's like, I can't get all these mops in this closet,
Speaker 1: and featuring Emily is yeah with a weird she only
Speaker 1: has one line back to the backdel cast um and uh,
Speaker 1: and she gives off this weird New Yorker acts and
Speaker 1: she's like you late yeah, and I'm like, listen bones.
Speaker 1: There's so many so I made a list of all
Speaker 1: of the bit characters in this movie. There are four
Speaker 1: hundred characters in this movie. Male, female, child, which children
Speaker 1: could be of all genders. Uh, I'm not doing good
Speaker 1: so far. This is supposed to be. I shouldn't let
Speaker 1: him know that. Yeah, you're really setting us up failure.
Speaker 1: There's so many bit characters it's insane. I made. There's
Speaker 1: the guy who runs the pizza place, Emily Decianelle, who
Speaker 1: doesn't want to pay for the pizza. There's Elizabeth Banks
Speaker 1: in a wig. She comes up a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I always have to do a double take to remember
Speaker 1: that it's her because it's such a weird I had
Speaker 1: totally forgotten. Yes, yeah, yeah, I don't know if that's
Speaker 1: her last name. There's the daughter of the landlord. There's
Speaker 1: the landlord there, and we'll get to that weird scene
Speaker 1: with the cake. There's a bunch of journalists. There's a
Speaker 1: million towns people who go like, well, Spider Man Like,
Speaker 1: there's the doctor in the tight eyed T shirt. Yep,
Speaker 1: that's a weird one. Ussher elevator guy Joel McHale. Uh.
Speaker 1: The usher is played by Bruce Campbell. I was like,
Speaker 1: is it? And then I was like, all right, Sam
Speaker 1: Raimi directed Evil Daddy directed the Spider Man movies. It
Speaker 1: makes sense that he gives Bruce a little role this movie.
Speaker 1: It makes a lot more sense when I watching it now,
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, this is a Sam Ramy movie.
Speaker 1: Like the very scary, violent scenes out of nowhere, You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this because he's horrible Boy, and I think that was
Speaker 1: kind of horrible by Horrible Boy that's what they call him.
Speaker 1: And then My favorite bit character was Harry's butler, who
Speaker 1: is in exactly one scene and James Franco's you know,
Speaker 1: like doing his James Franco thing, and he's like, oh god,
Speaker 1: sport like just brooding, and his butler, who's very old,
Speaker 1: shouts from across the room, your father only obsessed over
Speaker 1: his work. And then James Freaco dismisses him by saying
Speaker 1: good night Bernard, and then he turns around it leaves,
Speaker 1: never to be seen again. I don't know how many
Speaker 1: actors got their sag card off of being on the
Speaker 1: side of this movie for like twenty five seconds, but
Speaker 1: there's so it's so weird. Also, the name of the
Speaker 1: butler's Bernard, not Bernard unless James Franco just funked up
Speaker 1: that long entirely, he's a good night Bernard. There's no
Speaker 1: ber nerd good night Bernard. And then Bernard turns her
Speaker 1: out and leaves, and that's and it's so funny because
Speaker 1: if you think about like Batman's butler, sure you know,
Speaker 1: the famous one, and then you've got Bernard as one
Speaker 1: line and then he's like, well, you're right, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: right off, and then he does grand that actor made.
Speaker 1: So you know, let's talk about, Um, when did you
Speaker 1: first see the movie? And like, what's your history with
Speaker 1: because you you right for Marvel, you you're like Universe?
Speaker 1: How is about? Because Jamie and I we recently did
Speaker 1: an episode about Wonder Woman, and I revealed that I've
Speaker 1: never read a comic book in my entire life. Sorry everybody, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so um, because I'm not a fucking nerd, just kidding,
Speaker 1: I am. I'm a graphic novel gut, but I've never
Speaker 1: been a comics gale. Yes. So I saw Spider Man
Speaker 1: two in high school with my friend Eric Merrowitz. Actually
Speaker 1: he's like, he's a cool guy. I such a big
Speaker 1: crush on him, and we would have like sleepovers and
Speaker 1: make each other mixes, and I just like, I was
Speaker 1: always like, how do I sort this out? Didn't happen
Speaker 1: because he's straight. But anyway, back to Spiderman. But hey, Eric,
Speaker 1: love the weight loss. Glad you're married. Um, but I
Speaker 1: always loved Spider Man as a hero. To to tie
Speaker 1: it into work stuff, you know, it's fun to be
Speaker 1: writing this book called Ice Man, where it's about this
Speaker 1: guy who's trying to give himself a fresh start, but
Speaker 1: he's like thirty something or like early thirties, late twenties,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to try and be like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: how do I give him sort of Spiderman adventures where
Speaker 1: every challenge basically speaks to his like personal life and
Speaker 1: his superhero identity. And then on top of that, you know,
Speaker 1: I think the magical thing about Spiderman is like he's
Speaker 1: never really good enough to win these fights. And the
Speaker 1: thing that sets him apart from everyone else's like spirit
Speaker 1: and ingenuity, and that's kind of the beautiful and inspiring
Speaker 1: thing about him is this like parting sentence from Uncle
Speaker 1: Ben kept him on like a track to be like
Speaker 1: the good guy and to do the right thing. And
Speaker 1: this movie is really weird about that, by the way,
Speaker 1: Like he's like I'm kind of tired and I'm just
Speaker 1: over it. Someone would give up for an act and
Speaker 1: it's all of like a four minute montage and rain
Speaker 1: drops keeping fun montage. I like that he becomes like
Speaker 1: Spidy impotent. He's like, my jee doesn't come out of
Speaker 1: my roost anymore. Well, I want to talk about that too,
Speaker 1: because we have discussed on the podcast before the James
Speaker 1: Cameron draft of the two thousand to a movie which
Speaker 1: bangs you over the head with the jiz metaphor never
Speaker 1: read heard tell of this for the best. But James
Speaker 1: Cameron did the first draft of the two Thou script
Speaker 1: and it's very like, I mean, we read the scene
Speaker 1: where it's like Peter part and it's the webs are Jiz,
Speaker 1: very clearly laid out Act one by James Cameron, and
Speaker 1: so I was like, I can't I couldn't stop thinking
Speaker 1: about that because I was just like, did he run
Speaker 1: out of come? Like what he's out of come because
Speaker 1: he's afraid? And I guess that makes sense. But in
Speaker 1: this world, thankfully the webs are not come. There something
Speaker 1: more well, not that come isn't meaningful, but you know what, No,
Speaker 1: I mean it's not. It is for a man, right,
Speaker 1: I could take it or leave it, but for minutes,
Speaker 1: the entire like basis of spirituality is like how big
Speaker 1: their loads are? So maybe it is spermatuality everyone that
Speaker 1: you're gonna have branded shirts spermature but yeah, anyway, yeah,
Speaker 1: So I saw this in high school, and it's funny
Speaker 1: because I didn't really much like it in high school,
Speaker 1: and then I rewatched it to prepare myself for this
Speaker 1: and my relationship with it is a little different now
Speaker 1: because I was looking at it in consideration of like
Speaker 1: the Bechdel cast, like I really don't like it, but
Speaker 1: I also do like some things about it. It ages
Speaker 1: interestingly and as a grown up, I love you know
Speaker 1: when you were talking about all the sort of big characters, like,
Speaker 1: that's such a New York thing that you kind of
Speaker 1: even if it's just for like a moment, you just
Speaker 1: have this like sense of this person where they are,
Speaker 1: with their identity, like just these like micro glimpses of
Speaker 1: all these little New Yorkers. That's such a Spider Man
Speaker 1: thing and that was done pretty effectively in this movie.
Speaker 1: But it was a funny movie. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: really funny movie. In consideration of this podcast. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's frustrating how women are portrayed in it, but
Speaker 1: it's not. It wasn't like a chore for me to watch.
Speaker 1: I wasn't like, oh, I have to watch Spider Man.
Speaker 1: It's a fun movie. And yeah, but on Rotten to
Speaker 1: make if you can believe, I remember when it came out,
Speaker 1: I was really into reading Roger Ebert's reviews, and he
Speaker 1: at the time said this may be the best superhero
Speaker 1: movie I've ever seen. That. Yeah, I had a boyfriend
Speaker 1: who loved Yeahbert, Yeah, I had a boyfriend who loved
Speaker 1: What is with that? Oh, Zibert hits it's dude, who
Speaker 1: like you want to feel valid about watching movies? Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean he was like the premier film critic
Speaker 1: at the time. Well sure, no, I'm just saying it's
Speaker 1: it's funny that so many people have like a fixation
Speaker 1: on him in particular, and they're like Maltingale myself, please
Speaker 1: have a crush on letter. You really need to have
Speaker 1: a separate podcast. Like, I'm just putting that out there, right.
Speaker 1: So we chose so exactly. Well, we there's a new
Speaker 1: Spider Man movie coming out, and we're like, we got
Speaker 1: to do a Spider Man episode, but we've skipped the
Speaker 1: first one because we skipping right over that, and we
Speaker 1: got to do Spider Man two because of Alfred Molina.
Speaker 1: Although there's some interesting things, I do want to point
Speaker 1: out some some fun things that happened in the first
Speaker 1: Spiderman because I also rewatched it. I was just like
Speaker 1: I gotta get you know, I gotta get my bearings. Well,
Speaker 1: it's fun. I think I might even like it better
Speaker 1: than Spiderman two critics wise two wins out. I think,
Speaker 1: I think so, I'm pretty sure I do. I love
Speaker 1: an origin story, right, so I enjoyed that about the
Speaker 1: first Spider Man unique I'm sick of origin stories. Well
Speaker 1: maybe now, maybe because they've done a lot, but they're
Speaker 1: not are not fun to watch now or that's my
Speaker 1: problem with origin stories is now, I don't know, the
Speaker 1: tone of most comic book movies is so serious and
Speaker 1: it's just like That's why it was fun to go
Speaker 1: back to this movie because I was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is like really goofy and kind of dumb. But I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is like I don't feel heavy
Speaker 1: after watching this movie. It's like very very there's so
Speaker 1: much levity to it. Anytime he's at the planet. Now
Speaker 1: now I'm about to get like destroyed by people listening.
Speaker 1: Hasn't the Planet Daily Planet? But like yeah, any scene
Speaker 1: with like j Jonah Jamison's always like even though it's
Speaker 1: so arch, it's just kind of like you just like
Speaker 1: want to believe in a world where like the photographer
Speaker 1: talks to the editor in chief like like one on
Speaker 1: one and like asks for advances for like, you know,
Speaker 1: to photos like it's so and and I feel like
Speaker 1: if just for the sake of argument, feel free to
Speaker 1: disagree if they, you know, in the newer Spider Man,
Speaker 1: and it does seemed like this New Spider Man sort
Speaker 1: of going for a more lighthearted I think, where with
Speaker 1: the Andrew Garfield they're like, oh, this is like Captain
Speaker 1: America Civil War, which is where we first see this
Speaker 1: rendition of Spider Man. He was fun, he's a kid,
Speaker 1: he's like I kid, he's the leading Billy Elliott, he's
Speaker 1: a dancer, he's living his life. But I feel like
Speaker 1: the tendency with most movies now would be like you
Speaker 1: see Jajoe and Jamison and yeah, he's got a couple
Speaker 1: of funny lines, but we also learned that there's more
Speaker 1: to him than and I'm just like, I'm so happy
Speaker 1: with j jon and Jamison just being like, Nope, I'm selfish,
Speaker 1: I suck, I'm weird, I'm yelling. I love j K.
Speaker 1: Simmons is portrayal of that character though. It's so fun.
Speaker 1: It's great. Wait, so I'm going to talk about the
Speaker 1: things that happened in Spider Man one, just to transition
Speaker 1: us into Spiderman too. There's a scene and this is
Speaker 1: relevant to the podcast because there's a scene early on
Speaker 1: in the First Spider Man where Peter Parker he lives
Speaker 1: next door to Mary Jane, and he's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: look into her window and he just spies on her
Speaker 1: when she's in her bedroom. It's creepy, Yeah, with that
Speaker 1: Toby Maguire, like those glassy eyes, Like, hey, he does
Speaker 1: kind of have like a dumb face. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: m J needs to be saved in this movie once
Speaker 1: at the parade, once when there's like four rape dudes
Speaker 1: trying to like mug and attack her. And then she
Speaker 1: needs to be saved again at the end when it's
Speaker 1: a Spider Man having to choose between her or a
Speaker 1: bust full of children. Oh yeah, I want to fun.
Speaker 1: Basically in that movie and in this movie, MJ's pretty
Speaker 1: much only role is to be like, I'm a person
Speaker 1: that just needs to be saved over and over. This
Speaker 1: is the most frustrating part of the movie in context
Speaker 1: of the theme of our podcast. The two characters. Obviously,
Speaker 1: m J is just I feel like she's just like
Speaker 1: this recycled inciting incident for Peter Parker to learn another
Speaker 1: lesson and make a choice. He makes a choice to
Speaker 1: not be Spider Man because he loves them day and
Speaker 1: then he becomes Spider Man because and then he can't
Speaker 1: be with m J. But then he can, and it's
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, and it's like, what does she do?
Speaker 1: She's somehow a famous actress. Was she even in the
Speaker 1: drama club in high school? How did this happen? We
Speaker 1: don't know, we don't care. And then the other character
Speaker 1: that really bothered me, and I didn't even register for
Speaker 1: me the first time I saw this because I was
Speaker 1: just like, you know, so wet for Alfred Molina and
Speaker 1: this child in the theater, just soaking wet for this
Speaker 1: grown man. But Doc Ox wife Rosie Octavius, perfect name,
Speaker 1: a great name, Rosie oc. She's in a couple of scenes,
Speaker 1: but she only really speaks in one scene where Peter
Speaker 1: Parker's over and Doc Doc is, you know, Alfred Mollena.
Speaker 1: He's holding court. He's like, I love science, I love
Speaker 1: my wife. You know, she heske me. How are we compatible?
Speaker 1: But I don't understand ts Eliott. That's the only the
Speaker 1: only things that Rosie says, like her opening is like, hey, Peter,
Speaker 1: do you have a girlfriend. It's like okay, So she
Speaker 1: she's a plot device right off the bat, and then
Speaker 1: they start to talk about like, oh now Rosie exists
Speaker 1: to prove that Dr Octavius is a is a good guy,
Speaker 1: and he's talking about how he loves her, and of
Speaker 1: course she's an English major. Of course she can't be
Speaker 1: a fellow fucking scientists. They're like, no, she's sensitive, she's
Speaker 1: she reads TS S. Eliot and then she's like I do,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't bring any new information. She exists to
Speaker 1: validate Doc Doc as a character who is not a
Speaker 1: bad guy, so it will will feel it more when
Speaker 1: he goes bad. And then basically the next time we
Speaker 1: see her, she's very proud of him. And then she
Speaker 1: has killed by a shard of glass presumably to her juggular, well,
Speaker 1: by a lot a shard to blast. There's like a hole.
Speaker 1: But then she dies, right, and she dies for to
Speaker 1: serve another plot point, which is this is the inciting incident.
Speaker 1: For a while, Doc has nothing to lose. He lost
Speaker 1: his wife, he loved her and now he has no
Speaker 1: one and you know who cares, But we never find
Speaker 1: out She's like I think referenced vaguely one other time.
Speaker 1: We never find out if she has a funeral service,
Speaker 1: if Doc is allowed to attend this funeral service, and
Speaker 1: we never ever ever hear of her again. She just
Speaker 1: like serves two very specific points to flesh out this
Speaker 1: I mean statuesque amazing, gorgeous man, and then she's killed
Speaker 1: and then we never hear about her again. So my
Speaker 1: real question is, like, how hard was it for you
Speaker 1: to like not just stare at out for Molina in
Speaker 1: her scenes? Like how much work did it take for
Speaker 1: you to do this work? Like I mean this time,
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had to build up the stamina to
Speaker 1: not just stare at Some days are easier than others.
Speaker 1: Every day is there's other people in this scene, there's yeah,
Speaker 1: And just like I keep forgetting that there's two other
Speaker 1: actors in this scene, are I mean Alfa Bilina truly
Speaker 1: steals every scene he's in. Sometimes he steals every scene
Speaker 1: he's in to the point where they're like, let's put
Speaker 1: no one else in this scene. Let's just let Alfred
Speaker 1: Mellina do a three minute Shakespearean monologue talking to his
Speaker 1: own claws, and it's still amazing. Heh wait, I want
Speaker 1: to make two one. He could not attend Rosie's funeral
Speaker 1: service because he was too busy stealing money from a bank.
Speaker 1: You know how banks just have bags of coins. The
Speaker 1: cartoony bank. I love the cartoony bank that Joel McHale
Speaker 1: works at that gives away toasters, that gives away toasters,
Speaker 1: and that only has no paper cash, no like stacks
Speaker 1: of just bags of gold coins. Alfa Millina also for
Speaker 1: that scene, goes into the bank you know, clause blazing,
Speaker 1: and has somehow acquired a villainous fedora. Just for that scene.
Speaker 1: He's wearing a fedora to rob the cartoony Joel McHale bank.
Speaker 1: And I mean, that's like another fun part of this
Speaker 1: movie for me, is I feel like there's so many
Speaker 1: scenes that are just interrupted by very cartoonish acts of
Speaker 1: violence and it's so fun. Like it's you know, there's
Speaker 1: the whole scene where it's like, Aunt may I can't
Speaker 1: get a bank loan and Joel McHale's there and they're
Speaker 1: not gonna get toaster and pure feels bad, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, cut to Alfred Molina bags of
Speaker 1: gold fedora and it's just suddenly a completely different scene,
Speaker 1: or the the other one where Kirsten Dunce is leaning
Speaker 1: in and you get that weird shot of her like
Speaker 1: about to kiss you. That was a weird shot, and
Speaker 1: then cut to car burst through the window. End of serious.
Speaker 1: I really like this movie. I think it's so fun.
Speaker 1: Oh god. Well, the other point I wanted to make
Speaker 1: about doc Cock is that here's some hot speculation from
Speaker 1: Kate and I would argue that Peter Parker, he's like,
Speaker 1: I want to meet my idol Auto Octavius, and he
Speaker 1: was like, I don't really have time for students right now.
Speaker 1: And here he goes. He's like, okay, fine, you pay
Speaker 1: the bills. Saw me with your dumb friend, and he
Speaker 1: spends all this time with him, Like Peter Parker goes
Speaker 1: over to his house and like they have tea with it,
Speaker 1: like his wife. I think it's like there's spending a
Speaker 1: lot of time together. Here's the thing that took away
Speaker 1: time that Octavius needed to do his calculations because he
Speaker 1: fucked up and the demonstration goes all wrong and that's
Speaker 1: what turns him into doc Ock. So really, man, isn't
Speaker 1: another Parker ends up creating the monster he would later
Speaker 1: need to destroy spider shaming. Yeah, he sucked up the
Speaker 1: lives of his two plusest loved ones also, But let's
Speaker 1: let's just to Molina shame a little bit, like okay,
Speaker 1: if you're like, well, now, all right, I liked you
Speaker 1: up until the second. But what scientists would like if
Speaker 1: he was leaving those details down to the last minute.
Speaker 1: I mean that is his fault. So yes, let's say
Speaker 1: in a shaming, let's everyone gets shamed. Everyone gets shamed,
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina. Let's just And I'm this is a strictly
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina comment because I was texting Caitlin when I
Speaker 1: was watching the movie and I was like, oh, Alfred
Speaker 1: Molina has got the gum fifty percent teeth ratio. I
Speaker 1: thought he would have been a big Hollywood teeth actor.
Speaker 1: He's not. He's got regular teeth bordering on small teeth.
Speaker 1: He's humble. Respect him. He doesn't need Hollywood teeth. He's
Speaker 1: got talent. Bedroom he's got a crooked too. He's a director.
Speaker 1: Small eyes, big nose, beautiful or not. Small eyes, swell teeth,
Speaker 1: big no eyes, big old broken nose. I do wish
Speaker 1: that they gave like Doctor Octopus, like a little bit
Speaker 1: more of a soul, you know, like because in the
Speaker 1: books that happened. Like every once in a while he'll
Speaker 1: get like moved, Like there's a minute where he aristotle
Speaker 1: like nod or don't not or whatever. But like there's
Speaker 1: a minute where like he's dating a may right like
Speaker 1: in the book Whoa or he has a crush on
Speaker 1: her look it up. And that's and it was rewatching
Speaker 1: the movie and I was like, oh, right, is that
Speaker 1: what's going to happen with this like Aunt Macine and
Speaker 1: the you know on on the side of the building.
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, what she does the thing that
Speaker 1: like every superhero writer does, And it's like and then
Speaker 1: the woman does her part by like daintily smacking him
Speaker 1: in the head at the right moment. So that was
Speaker 1: the extent of their four play. Yeah, she did do
Speaker 1: good though. That was a well timed I'm gonna hit
Speaker 1: you on the head. That was a good goof. It
Speaker 1: ends up she saves Spider Man because otherwise he was
Speaker 1: gonna impale him with you know, his his sharp claw bit.
Speaker 1: Also his four fallust is just floiling around in the books.
Speaker 1: Is there a better explanation for why the clause exist?
Speaker 1: Because in the presentation it's weird. He's like, I made
Speaker 1: these clause I control my brain. Also made as to
Speaker 1: magnetism and like radiation or something like that. Okay, I
Speaker 1: couldn't heat. It's it's like almost a throwaway line, but okay,
Speaker 1: but they do offer something because I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's why he needs to to me at least why
Speaker 1: he needs to fuse them into his spinal column, Like
Speaker 1: why can't you just build a robot that he can
Speaker 1: control from afar? Does anyone get to wear that? Because
Speaker 1: then he wouldn't be able to be The broad strokes
Speaker 1: are kind of the same, like he was a scientist
Speaker 1: and did this thing. I don't think and I can't remember,
Speaker 1: so please Internet, don't get mad at me or judge me.
Speaker 1: But like, I don't remember if there was that. Like
Speaker 1: also like and then there's this weird explosion thing that
Speaker 1: like explains why he's a crazy person. Yeah, well his
Speaker 1: inhibitor chip. Yeah, because that was the whole thing that's
Speaker 1: at the chip that's in one of his monologue scenes
Speaker 1: in the book. I don't think the tentacles is what
Speaker 1: they like to call them. I don't have agency. I
Speaker 1: think he's just a guy who's gone corrupt with power,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know, I might need to.
Speaker 1: I got to look into this because I don't I know,
Speaker 1: I think Rosie's in the books too, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it's all as like neatly packaged, as like here
Speaker 1: are these causes and effects like and that is why
Speaker 1: like he hates Spiderman and this, that and the other.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's a similar thing where like he's
Speaker 1: like controlling these things and they just kind of make
Speaker 1: him a little too invincible for his own good Haristotle,
Speaker 1: what about the doc dock and not many thing it
Speaker 1: happened almost almost marry marring him. Also fun fact for
Speaker 1: you too, because you don't read the comics. There was
Speaker 1: a minute where Dr Octopus his brain was in Spider
Speaker 1: Man's body for a while Peter Parker's body. Toby McGuire
Speaker 1: exuding Alfred Molina vibes, can't imagine interesting twist. Yes, we'll
Speaker 1: write this fan fix. I hope that they just also
Speaker 1: just rubbed her screen, because there's a picture of it.
Speaker 1: I didn't just touch it. That was involuntary. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: I called you out being shamed. Uh. I hope that
Speaker 1: they gave Alfred Billina those I want to say three
Speaker 1: full monologue scenes. One is especially long where he goes
Speaker 1: the chip that that one's very long. But as we
Speaker 1: all know, Alfred Bolena joined the Royal Shakespeare Company in
Speaker 1: ninety seven. He is no stranger to monologues. He's a
Speaker 1: serious stage actor. So I hope they were like, well,
Speaker 1: we've got to have Billina as octopus, which I doubt
Speaker 1: that they ever said. But he's a character actor, he seasoned.
Speaker 1: He blew them away, and they're like, we've got to
Speaker 1: write some we gotta let him talk to these claws.
Speaker 1: Seems like it seems like he could really hear me out.
Speaker 1: If you can make some sweet screen chemistry with claws,
Speaker 1: maybe you're the greatest actor to ever live. Maybe. Well,
Speaker 1: he and he is really convincing and like that. He's great. Hey,
Speaker 1: let's talk about something other than a man in this episode.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard in this one. Okay, well let
Speaker 1: me start. So we already kind of touched on this before,
Speaker 1: but not really surprised that m j main female character
Speaker 1: doesn't really have much of a personality. She's not a
Speaker 1: super developed or fleshed out character. She really exists only
Speaker 1: as the love interest. Her role is to be captured
Speaker 1: and then to be saved. She's ali and over again.
Speaker 1: Well let me crush some lit one on one on YouTube.
Speaker 1: I was just realizing this on the drive over. Everything
Speaker 1: about her is static, Like when Peter walks by all
Speaker 1: the same image of her, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like the whole movie, it's the same billboard, the same image.
Speaker 1: She's just there in place, essentially waiting for him. And
Speaker 1: then even the play, like she's just in one place
Speaker 1: performing the same lines over and over again. That's really
Speaker 1: interesting that she does, like, for all intents and purposes,
Speaker 1: just exists to kind of stand around as an example
Speaker 1: of something, you know, Like she's just static. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it makes her very passive. I mean she pretty much
Speaker 1: does nothing actively to push the story forward or to
Speaker 1: really do anything that she prompts whatever the next thing
Speaker 1: Peter is going to do. So who would But that's boring? Okay,
Speaker 1: this is I'm probably not phrasing this right, but like,
Speaker 1: why would you still have like a boner for someone
Speaker 1: who's like, hey, and in a few months we haven't talked,
Speaker 1: I got engaged. This is would be mad all the
Speaker 1: scenes Mary Jane is so confusing in in this because
Speaker 1: she's not a flashed out character, but all the scenes
Speaker 1: she's in with Peter are so weird. Like there's that
Speaker 1: scene where Peter's leaving his own birthday party and Mary
Speaker 1: Jane's outside of her parents house, and there's that weird
Speaker 1: conversation where he's you know, like not wanting to say
Speaker 1: I love you because he's still Spider Man. And then
Speaker 1: she gets very like close to him and it's basically
Speaker 1: like say you love me, and say you love me,
Speaker 1: and then he doesn't, and then she's like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: I have a boyfriend. And I was just like, why
Speaker 1: would you act that way? That's so bizarre. And then
Speaker 1: and then at the end, when did I cry? When
Speaker 1: Peter was like we can't be together? Sure in the
Speaker 1: big web that talk, I'm easily manipulated. To be fair,
Speaker 1: I don't think that I should have cried, but I did.
Speaker 1: But then you know, she's lowered from the big old
Speaker 1: com web that her he blows a load, they lounge,
Speaker 1: inet hearts are broken, and then she's lowered from the
Speaker 1: load down to her long suffering. It reminds me of
Speaker 1: Liz Lemon's fake boyfriend. That's who MJ's marrying, like astronaut,
Speaker 1: famous astronaut, that's basically who MJ is engaged to. He's perfect.
Speaker 1: There's that great line where she like was like, no,
Speaker 1: let's do the Spider Man kiss. She does a Spiderman
Speaker 1: kiss with the astronaut, and because he's not a character either,
Speaker 1: he's like, I feel like I'm on the moon. That
Speaker 1: was so weird. Was not such a weird life. I
Speaker 1: was like, we get it. He's a spaceman. That was
Speaker 1: confusing because he was like, do you want to invite
Speaker 1: your friend Peter Parker to the wedding. She's like Peter Parker, No,
Speaker 1: I hate him, He's a jerk. You're like Spider Man.
Speaker 1: She's weird. She's like, my back, so I can do
Speaker 1: that Spider Man kiss to see maybe you're Spider Man.
Speaker 1: I don't know, are either with me? And she's just
Speaker 1: like shrug. And then in the next scene she's meeting
Speaker 1: Peter for coffee and she's like, I changed my mind. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: you could argue that her kiss, her Spider Man kiss
Speaker 1: with astronaut Mike Dexter, wasn't as invigorating as she was hoping,
Speaker 1: and then, but then why does she go and seek
Speaker 1: out Spider Man unless she and just intuitively knows that
Speaker 1: Peter Parker is Spider Man. It was confusing why she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I just spent the earlier scene telling my fiance how
Speaker 1: much I hated you. But let's get coffee and maybe
Speaker 1: we're and you say, like, maybe I'll break up with
Speaker 1: my astronaut boyfriend for you, a freelance photographer and who
Speaker 1: is emotionally withholding and a college student grow up? Also,
Speaker 1: did you notice that every woman in this movie, like
Speaker 1: under the age of sixty, was like who is that guy?
Speaker 1: Like every girl in the movie was like, Elizabeth, thanks
Speaker 1: the neighbor Peter. Yeah, she's like you got this? Who
Speaker 1: would say that to a twenty year old freelance photographer,
Speaker 1: No one. Yeah, she was into him. The neighbors into him.
Speaker 1: M J. Obviously we just said is into him? There
Speaker 1: were a few others here and there that we're just
Speaker 1: like always like, oh, who's that? And I was just like,
Speaker 1: are you like what he's like walking on his campus
Speaker 1: and after in his like this like rain drops keep
Speaker 1: falling on my head montage and he's like girls walk
Speaker 1: past him and they're like tink you're cute. I do
Speaker 1: like that. He does a bit of a reverse Princess
Speaker 1: Diaries for that montage where he's like, I'm putting the
Speaker 1: glasses on and now my life is great interesting. Um.
Speaker 1: That sequence ends in the most confusing freeze frame of
Speaker 1: all time. It's the best. It's I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like that montage is and this is a very silly movie.
Speaker 1: That's almost as silly as the movie gets. But in
Speaker 1: Spider Man three, Spider Man three is that montage spread
Speaker 1: out for like forty hours because it's so like I mean,
Speaker 1: if you take the raindrops are falling on my head
Speaker 1: montage and then hold it up next to the weird
Speaker 1: dance scene, I forget. But that's another one where that's
Speaker 1: another one where women are turned on by Toby McGuire
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, they're not. He looks like he's
Speaker 1: about to snap someone's bones. He is a scary guy.
Speaker 1: Do we know the song, oh, speaking of songs, vindicated
Speaker 1: by Dashboard Confessional was written for this movie. There's references
Speaker 1: in the because I remember this is it's the perfect
Speaker 1: hot topics on the um. But there there's like a
Speaker 1: whole verse about Mary Jane's wedding ring and how it's
Speaker 1: like oversized and overwhelmed, like it's there's a whole it's
Speaker 1: all about Spider Man, dashboard confessional man, cool, cool story
Speaker 1: yourself at okay, let's talk about it from Willie a
Speaker 1: little um. It's just really it's frustrating that she's basically
Speaker 1: reduced to effectively an object. That's like now you're captured,
Speaker 1: now you're saved, now you're captured again, and now you're
Speaker 1: saying like it just happens over and over. She's doesn't
Speaker 1: do anything to ever try to save herself or to
Speaker 1: like when she's in the end of the movie, she's
Speaker 1: in like chains, she's like, all right, I'll just I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna stay here. I'm try to she does the
Speaker 1: thing that that the captured woman does where she's like, hey,
Speaker 1: let me go and he's like no. And then but
Speaker 1: she does try to defend herself once and it's so
Speaker 1: weird the way it's dealt with where there's that moment
Speaker 1: in the last scene where Mary Jane she takes a
Speaker 1: crowbar or something and she tries to hit Doc and
Speaker 1: he just picks her up and throws her. And that
Speaker 1: is the one time she tries to do something and
Speaker 1: it it blows up in her face. Immediately, she's like
Speaker 1: his mechanical arms look at her. Yeah, he doesn't like
Speaker 1: back turned. Damn. I was almost excited. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: she does do something. But then he's like and she
Speaker 1: doesn't give him the chance. And then a wall is
Speaker 1: about to follow her, and then Spider Man is like,
Speaker 1: we'll prop this up for you. This is really heavy,
Speaker 1: and then she's like, I'll just stay here, and yeah,
Speaker 1: she doesn't get her away. I think she's trapped under something.
Speaker 1: But I also think that the in the other direction
Speaker 1: is the big ball of energy, so maybe she was
Speaker 1: going to get I'll give her the benefit of the the doubt.
Speaker 1: They didn't need to have a conversation at that point
Speaker 1: where she was like, you said you do love me.
Speaker 1: He's like like that that said it's I've tried to
Speaker 1: remember the exact wording of it, because it was also
Speaker 1: very silly, where it was like, okay, she's kind of
Speaker 1: over explaining rehab sin something that's already happened. Where she
Speaker 1: was like, you said you didn't love me, but you
Speaker 1: do even though you said you didn't, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you could just say you do love me, but she
Speaker 1: like like double negatives it just to even everything out.
Speaker 1: She's dumb, he's dumb. It's well, it's so funny. Like
Speaker 1: I'm just watching it and I'm like, oh, like this
Speaker 1: was written by men, Like it's just so funny. There's
Speaker 1: so much bullshit, you know, we can talk about in
Speaker 1: the sense of like yeah, they're all wallpaper and they're
Speaker 1: all serving this guy's story. And I just in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like these what like what morons? And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: they were probably just they just had the best of
Speaker 1: intentions in their heads. Like guys are so dumb that
Speaker 1: they think like the best way to honor a woman
Speaker 1: is to say, look, how much you inspired me. That's
Speaker 1: kind of all this movie is, is like meals well,
Speaker 1: but I'm not and I'm not forgiving it or excusing it.
Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm watching it and I'm like trying
Speaker 1: to be like, why would you just do it like
Speaker 1: with like so few dimensions? And it's like I think
Speaker 1: that's why. It's like they're just so busy. These writers
Speaker 1: are so busy crafting like this one character, and all
Speaker 1: they can think about is how like everyone else fits
Speaker 1: in their lives and it's like, yeah, the woman are
Speaker 1: just always love interests and like damsels and they inspire
Speaker 1: them or move them or die in order to get
Speaker 1: them to do the thing. And like, right, if they
Speaker 1: just try it a little harder, they could write developed
Speaker 1: female characters. Like it's not writing is hard, It's not
Speaker 1: that much harder to just do a better job portraying women. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're going to go so far as
Speaker 1: to write a feature length script, like maybe spend a
Speaker 1: little time on these female characters. Well, Alfred gets all
Speaker 1: these monologues, I mean, and I would not take a
Speaker 1: word away from him. However, I will flip this table.
Speaker 1: We haven't talked about Aunt May in this movie very much.
Speaker 1: I was surprised she had more moments than I thought
Speaker 1: she would. She I feel like she is the closest
Speaker 1: to having a female character with some depth because she
Speaker 1: does exist. Like Uncle Ben did too say a line
Speaker 1: in the trailer, I believe there's a hero in all
Speaker 1: of us. I remember that from the trailer, right, you know,
Speaker 1: both the aunt dan the uncle exists for the trailer.
Speaker 1: But we do see like we see her grieving a
Speaker 1: little bit, and so there's a little depth there. We
Speaker 1: see that she's having money problems. There's a little depth there.
Speaker 1: And then you also sort of get a bit of
Speaker 1: an arc which is amazing that it's like a female
Speaker 1: character head a one point arc um. But she does
Speaker 1: where she sort of starts to move on, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm getting evicted from my house. I found an apartment.
Speaker 1: Little neighbor boys, help me out. I don't need your help, Peter.
Speaker 1: If you want to hang out, feel free. She's wearing
Speaker 1: a flannel. I'm like, good for you. Like she's she's
Speaker 1: starting to like, you have to take matters into my
Speaker 1: own hands. I can't afford this house anymore. And then
Speaker 1: there's the moment where Peter comes forward like I might
Speaker 1: be responsible for Uncle Ben's death and she's just like mother.
Speaker 1: And then and then in the next scene when they're
Speaker 1: together again, he's like, hey, about my last visit, and
Speaker 1: she's like, we need to talk about it. I'm over it.
Speaker 1: Let's move on. I want to say I thought that
Speaker 1: that was a believable. Yeah, especially for like, I don't
Speaker 1: know she was like that. She has like some level
Speaker 1: of complexity. If she was never mad about it, that
Speaker 1: would have been weird. She was upset about it at first. Sure,
Speaker 1: so yeah, she's like she has to mention, she has
Speaker 1: a story. It's just unfortunate that like everything about her
Speaker 1: is like built around like the actions of men, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like her husband his death, her
Speaker 1: nephews being responsible for his death at the hand of
Speaker 1: another man, like all this, you know, even the neighbor boy,
Speaker 1: even the neighbor what couldn't there be a little man? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Joel mccale, the scientists, all the scientists and doctors who
Speaker 1: get to talk or men. Yeah, like yeah, no women
Speaker 1: in STEM with lines as would say, there were women.
Speaker 1: We were talking about this the scene that's that's a
Speaker 1: great Sam Raimy scene where Doc Cock murders ten surgeons that, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think I had almost like kind of blocked
Speaker 1: it out because I remember being afraid of it, but
Speaker 1: I'd just forgotten until I saw it this watch. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of women in that scene, a lot
Speaker 1: of women in STEM. But I think that they're just
Speaker 1: there because Sam Raimy is like, we need screamers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they shrieked like so much, And there's all these intense
Speaker 1: close ups of women going well, yeah, and then one
Speaker 1: woman who like digs her fingernails into the floor scrape. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was scary. Um. I want to do a super
Speaker 1: cut of all the just women screaming in this movie,
Speaker 1: because I think it would be about twenty minutes long. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think they did a decently good job with Aunt May,
Speaker 1: giving her a little bit of depth, and it's nice
Speaker 1: to see like a woman over fifty in a movie
Speaker 1: oftentime doesn't happen. I think the only thing that kind
Speaker 1: of like, oh, man, come on was when do captures her.
Speaker 1: It is tossing her around and all that stuff. How
Speaker 1: did she not going to cardiac arrestling? Although the best
Speaker 1: that's that in that fight scene. It's not the best
Speaker 1: fight scene in the movie. That's obviously the train scene.
Speaker 1: But there's the best Alpha Molina line read in that
Speaker 1: scene where a Spider Man is like, give me my
Speaker 1: aunt or whatever, and he's like, but love that love
Speaker 1: my brother, And I like, I texted my brother when
Speaker 1: I saw that, because we used to say that line
Speaker 1: back and forth through each other and then we would
Speaker 1: just drop stuff anyways. And then she, like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: she does get her moment where she gets to hit
Speaker 1: him with her umbrella over the head. In it, Um
Speaker 1: saves Spider Man from getting dead. But UM stopped throwing
Speaker 1: women around. Yeah, throw throw James Franco around a little bit, right.
Speaker 1: He does get a little bit thrown around, and then
Speaker 1: his glass of whiskey, like all most hits him in
Speaker 1: the face and then catches it at the last minute.
Speaker 1: We haven't talked that much about James Breako. Let's not.
Speaker 1: I read his book of one of his books of poetry.
Speaker 1: I'm good. I have a signed copy. I was to say.
Speaker 1: He did a reading at book Soup where I used
Speaker 1: to work, and I managed that day and was one
Speaker 1: of the most traumatic days in my life. Was a
Speaker 1: diva or was it? He was fine. It was just
Speaker 1: the five hundred thousand teenagers and he was so I
Speaker 1: was like, stopped touching them. He was touching their hands.
Speaker 1: That's what they wanted to Speaking of books of poetry, though,
Speaker 1: did you know that if you read a woman poetry
Speaker 1: fa with you forever? They're according to But but to
Speaker 1: be fair, his personalityless wife corroborated it. She's like, it's true,
Speaker 1: it worked. I have three days to live, you know.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to mention was that while
Speaker 1: m J does get tossed around, captured, saved, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: that's really her only role in this movie. She does
Speaker 1: kind of redeem herself in the end, although I don't
Speaker 1: think it's very earned, because she is so flat of
Speaker 1: a character that I think they're like, well, we need
Speaker 1: to write this line for her to say, and then
Speaker 1: it will make everything better. But it's when at the
Speaker 1: very end, it's after she's discovered that Peter Parker and
Speaker 1: Spider Man are the same person, and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: and we do we love each other and we right
Speaker 1: you were and I love you and he's like, we
Speaker 1: can't be together. I have enemies. I'm crying, which like
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. She still gets captured. Even though that she
Speaker 1: didn't like might as well be fucking might as well,
Speaker 1: which is kind of what she says, because um, sorry,
Speaker 1: where is it I have it? Can't you respect me
Speaker 1: enough to make my own decision? Yes, is the line,
Speaker 1: but that line comes right after she says I can't
Speaker 1: survive without you, so it's like sandwiched in between. That's
Speaker 1: like one good line sandwiched in between bad lines. But
Speaker 1: that that was that stood out to me too. I
Speaker 1: wrote that down, and then she's like, but like, could
Speaker 1: MJ just when she's lowered into the web, into the
Speaker 1: arms of astronaut mic Nexter, could she just say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously Peter is following his path right now, whatever,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean she has to marry a man
Speaker 1: she doesn't love like and she just lands and there's
Speaker 1: that shot where he's holding her and she's looking back
Speaker 1: at Peter. I'm like, you could just be single. You're twenty.
Speaker 1: We gotta get that runaway bride moment in there, though
Speaker 1: he's got to run through New York in a wedding drest.
Speaker 1: That was I was feeling more for astronaut Mike Dexter
Speaker 1: in that scene because he seemed ready. He seemed ready.
Speaker 1: He's probably thirty, you know, he had he would have
Speaker 1: had to have gone through all kinds of training to
Speaker 1: be an astronaut and to go in the moon. He
Speaker 1: had already played football in the moon. That was the
Speaker 1: first man to throw a football on the moon. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about really quick the age of women, and specifically
Speaker 1: because I was just trying to look up as Banks
Speaker 1: in regards to this movie, because I had forgotten she
Speaker 1: was in it. Apparently she was like almost MJ in
Speaker 1: the first movie, which is why they end Sam Ramy
Speaker 1: ended up kind of throwing her into this movie because
Speaker 1: he felt bad, but she was told at the time
Speaker 1: because I guess she's like a year older than Tobey
Speaker 1: Maguire and they're like, no, you're too old, I can't
Speaker 1: do it. Too old to play m j J. She was. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is also I tolby why are shouldn't have been
Speaker 1: cast and why we are all excited about Tom Holland,
Speaker 1: But like he's too old to play Spider Man, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like he was like twenty six
Speaker 1: when they started this thing, and I don't know how
Speaker 1: old Kirsten Done was. I forget that she's Kirston Done,
Speaker 1: so she was like thirty inexperience at that point because
Speaker 1: of that was like posticides. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she had
Speaker 1: already done something I cannot wait to do with episode.
Speaker 1: I'm jazzed that would mean. But yeah, that's a that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Maybe Aristotle remembers this, but because neither of you read
Speaker 1: comic books, therefore you never read Wizard and Ashamed. No no, no,
Speaker 1: no no no, I'm more like I'm what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say, is I don't. I'm I'm setting it up
Speaker 1: so I don't sound like a man splaining that's good
Speaker 1: for you. So I'm trying to more be like hey,
Speaker 1: like because you know, you didn't read this shitty comic
Speaker 1: book magazine in the nineties. You don't remember when the
Speaker 1: James Cameron name was floating around. They were like, let's
Speaker 1: dreamcast Spider Man the movie, and they wanted they said,
Speaker 1: Leonardo DiCaprio should be Peter Parker. And then they wanted
Speaker 1: Nicky Cox. Remember her, look her up. She was on
Speaker 1: that sitcom in the nineties, and that's what they wanted
Speaker 1: to play. Like that's like, oh interesting, that's what like
Speaker 1: fanboys thought, Like Mary Jane was so like, well, she's
Speaker 1: got yeah, she's got the classic built like the boobs
Speaker 1: and no waste. She's got that, yeah, no waste cup,
Speaker 1: little old us behind the eyes. Yeah she would have.
Speaker 1: She would have fit the bill. But then they're like,
Speaker 1: let's go a little unconventional. Let's let's get Kiki in
Speaker 1: her gap. Let's get the gap in there, let's see
Speaker 1: what happens. So she yeah, it's so just to let
Speaker 1: you know, like that character is like screwed no matter
Speaker 1: how you look at it. And in the comic book,
Speaker 1: Like again, I'm not defending any of this. This is
Speaker 1: just all like, oh, it's really funny, like what men think,
Speaker 1: like is the coolest version of a girl. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's a model in an actress, but she likes the
Speaker 1: nerd and that's kind of her like the whole series.
Speaker 1: Like in the comic books, she's yeah, she becomes a supermodel. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess that sort of like doubles down on the
Speaker 1: problem of like this is a comic book written by
Speaker 1: men being adapted by other men. Yeah, and like and
Speaker 1: and also they touch on this in the first movie,
Speaker 1: but not as much in the book. She's also a
Speaker 1: victim of domestic abuse like her father that's in the
Speaker 1: first movie totally forgot about it, gets like dramatically screamed
Speaker 1: at in his crying and like Peter's like, hey, I'll
Speaker 1: fix you when like you know, you know it can
Speaker 1: fix the problem a man perpetuated man. Yeah, if at
Speaker 1: first you don't succeed, m J. And also we have
Speaker 1: to call you m J because your name is weed. Um.
Speaker 1: That was my big beef with the movie, was I
Speaker 1: was like whatever, just lean in, like just just throwing
Speaker 1: a joke in the first ten minutes, being like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know they're goofy enough. They could have done it,
Speaker 1: could have gotten away with it. You could have done
Speaker 1: something tongue in cheek. Kids wouldn't even know anyway, Like right,
Speaker 1: but how many pounds of hair joll do you think
Speaker 1: James Franco used in this? They just got him a vet.
Speaker 1: I don't know. While you were having a crush on
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina during this time, I was having a crush
Speaker 1: on James Franco. It has since to Dave Franco, but
Speaker 1: oh well, I mean that seems like a smart move.
Speaker 1: James Franco is unhinged, but in this movie he's not.
Speaker 1: He's got so much gel. He's wearing plastic sunglasses for
Speaker 1: of the movie. He keeps putting them on, taking them up.
Speaker 1: James Franco is such a drama queen. He's almost crying
Speaker 1: in every scene. There's that what was the line that
Speaker 1: I texted you where they're at astronaut Mike Dexter's party,
Speaker 1: and then Peter comes up, and then every time Harry
Speaker 1: is just like, who is Spider Man? Tell you right now,
Speaker 1: and then Peter's like, now is not the time, and
Speaker 1: Harry's like every time is the time, and he yells
Speaker 1: and he's like drunk, and it's like he's a mess.
Speaker 1: After Octavia's the whole experiment goes wrong and he turns
Speaker 1: into Doc Dock and several people get murdered in that scene. Um,
Speaker 1: Harry comes out and he's like, I'm ruined. The only
Speaker 1: thing I have left now is Spider Man. Like, you're
Speaker 1: still a billion hare, you still live in a penthouse
Speaker 1: apartment in New York City. That's what Bernard is trying,
Speaker 1: he says, obsessed over good night Bernard. Um, this is
Speaker 1: dedicated to Bernard. Shut up? Can I just say, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I didn't even do the recap. Whoops, I
Speaker 1: don't need it. This one recapped it pretty well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it was a slow. Part of the
Speaker 1: movie is MJ being very mad at Peter for never
Speaker 1: coming to see her play. And I just wanted to say,
Speaker 1: if I got as mad at my friends for not
Speaker 1: coming to my shows as she gets at Peter for
Speaker 1: not coming to her show, I would have no friends.
Speaker 1: But as for not my Dexter has been five times
Speaker 1: to be fair if it's someone that you see as
Speaker 1: a love interest. I don't know. Again, I got into
Speaker 1: this fight with my boyfriend a lot, like when it
Speaker 1: comes to reading books of mine, and I'm like, books
Speaker 1: is different, though it's still like you know, well you
Speaker 1: have you have the book on the table. It's a pretty,
Speaker 1: it's a it's hefty, so it's still like a two
Speaker 1: hour commitment, but even more to the point he didn't
Speaker 1: have to leave his apartment to read it, and he
Speaker 1: hasn't read you know, And it's like I don't but
Speaker 1: I don't get. But it's it's a place where like
Speaker 1: when romance is involved, and this is kind of the
Speaker 1: part where I'm like, I guess I kind of respect that,
Speaker 1: Like that's where she's drawing the line, like you're not
Speaker 1: meeting me on my terms, which is my career, which
Speaker 1: is cool, that's yeah. But again it goes back to
Speaker 1: like she's static and she's just always staying there waiting
Speaker 1: for him, and like and he's just not show All
Speaker 1: he has to do is show up and he's not
Speaker 1: so and this was her first big thing. I think.
Speaker 1: I guess I wasn't a really bad job. By the way,
Speaker 1: every scene so bad messes upper lines all the time, froze. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean like Lindsay Lohan did that. Like, oh, Daily
Speaker 1: Mail would get so mad. Sorry, yeah, the Daily Planet
Speaker 1: the one um really quick. I feel like we've name
Speaker 1: dropped so many character actors. One person we didn't name drop,
Speaker 1: but he's in the very beginning assume monv Y the
Speaker 1: pizza guy, Peter Yeah, Mr is the like. Oh and
Speaker 1: and also again this has nothing to do with but
Speaker 1: there's so many people with four lines in this movie,
Speaker 1: and I just want to make sure we acknowledge every
Speaker 1: single one of them. Willem Dafoe, avenge me. He's in
Speaker 1: it for forty five seconds, screams avenge me two times.
Speaker 1: End of seeing a hundred thousand dollars for a new
Speaker 1: car for willing to foe? Uh can I I'm gonna
Speaker 1: bring it back to what's relevant about this podcast, not
Speaker 1: that I wasn't having a great time talking about they
Speaker 1: stop yelling at me. Another frustrating thing about it is
Speaker 1: that the reason that one Peter Parker won't reveal to
Speaker 1: MJ that he is Spider Man, and the reason that
Speaker 1: he won't be with her is that he's like, I
Speaker 1: have to protect you from my enemies. I'm always going
Speaker 1: to have enemies, and I couldn't put you in danger,
Speaker 1: which is really just like a symptom of this like
Speaker 1: patriarchal bullshit where he's like, I have to always protect you,
Speaker 1: and it's like no, funk Off, like, no, she can't
Speaker 1: fend for herself because you've written her such a helpless
Speaker 1: piece of ship care. But if you didn't, if you,
Speaker 1: like these writers, tried a little harder, it wouldn't have
Speaker 1: to be god a protect her enemy. They he'd even
Speaker 1: let her land that one blow on Dot. I'm like,
Speaker 1: why did he have to just swatter away? They went
Speaker 1: through the trouble of writing, well, she's going to try
Speaker 1: to do something, but we're going to make her would
Speaker 1: have broken all of her ribs and killed her, punctured
Speaker 1: all of her would have died. And Togar is thrown
Speaker 1: against a brick wall. He's got a spider exo skeleton.
Speaker 1: That's spider. He has spider strength. That's what they do.
Speaker 1: You think toky Bar has any body hair? Probably not right.
Speaker 1: I don't think he has a hair. He's a shaver.
Speaker 1: I think you know who doesn't have any chest hair
Speaker 1: is Alfred Molina. And we know this because there's a
Speaker 1: scene where his bare chest is exposed. If he's a shaver,
Speaker 1: I think he's got yes, Yeah, like I tried them.
Speaker 1: I like hair free kind of smooth boy chilling. I
Speaker 1: like them smooth. Do you like at least like I
Speaker 1: like a little tiny Yeah, like I don't want like
Speaker 1: a hairless person. Although not to shame people with like alopecia,
Speaker 1: you're great. Stop alopecia shaming. Sorry, Um, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like I like just like a little, like a little
Speaker 1: bit maybe like a little hair around the nips. Free
Speaker 1: to hair Alfred, if you're listening, if you shaved, fine,
Speaker 1: but no you didn't have to. Yeah, he could have
Speaker 1: been a pretty brutish, really quick. One's weird scene a woman,
Speaker 1: isn't it? And it's not about al fro Billina. The
Speaker 1: cake scene? Yeah, what's going on? Why even have that character?
Speaker 1: First of all, it's like we get everyone has a
Speaker 1: crush and tell people guer. For some reason, I have
Speaker 1: the character? Why have that scene? Yeah, it's the neighbor,
Speaker 1: the landlord's daughter. She's like, would you like some chocolate cake?
Speaker 1: He's like, with with milk, a glass of milk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds nice. It's like, why why is it cut
Speaker 1: that scene? And then she watched she does not have cake?
Speaker 1: She watched she has a plate. She has a plate,
Speaker 1: she's presumably eating her cake. Why is she staring at him?
Speaker 1: She's just like she wants to she wants some of
Speaker 1: that to what end? Like where does that? I thought
Speaker 1: that that scene might have because when I was watching it, like,
Speaker 1: is this scene implying that, Like Peter's trying to move
Speaker 1: on and maybe they hook up, but we see her leave,
Speaker 1: we know it doesn't happen, so it's like with him.
Speaker 1: And then she's like, oh, by the way, you got
Speaker 1: a note from your aunt? Why not just cut to
Speaker 1: Peter at his mailbox and not not That's like, we
Speaker 1: don't need more women in this movie, but what a
Speaker 1: fucking weird I watched it twice to make sure. I'm like,
Speaker 1: am I missing anything encoded in this scene? Like? No? Never.
Speaker 1: The first time I saw this movie when it came out,
Speaker 1: I was like, why is this scene in here? So
Speaker 1: I remember seeing this movie in the theater and everyone
Speaker 1: burst out laughing during the line that MJ gives Peter's like,
Speaker 1: let's pick up where we left off, and she's like,
Speaker 1: you never got on. How can we get off when
Speaker 1: you never got on? And it's like, sexy, I'm going
Speaker 1: to use that his four play. I'll just be like, look,
Speaker 1: you can't get off if you don't get on, So
Speaker 1: get on, buddy, and get off my play butterfingers. I'm
Speaker 1: like to buy Alpha Bolina School of four play my Professor.
Speaker 1: My other one is my inhibitor chip. I'm on inhibited.
Speaker 1: There's such a good where he's like the chip there
Speaker 1: and he does, he turns around and he goes, it's
Speaker 1: so good. Wait, can we talk about some had a
Speaker 1: rush of blood his mother? Remember when he tries to
Speaker 1: make a joke and he's like, did anyone lose a
Speaker 1: roll of twenty dollar bills in a rubber band? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well we found the rubber band. And it's like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to get rid of all my stand up material,
Speaker 1: tell only that joke and extras, sensations, the Hollywood extras.
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I forgot to talk about my favorite
Speaker 1: moment in an entire movie. So I made a list
Speaker 1: of all the times that Spider Man has to save
Speaker 1: a character. He first saves Harry whenever octavious experiment goes
Speaker 1: all wild. So hey, a man saving another man, Okay,
Speaker 1: Then he has to save Aunt May after dot Got
Speaker 1: captures her at the bank. And then he saves a
Speaker 1: small child in a burning building, but the floor collapses
Speaker 1: beneath him and he kind of falls down. He's like
Speaker 1: hanging from this ledge, and he hurls the baby back
Speaker 1: up onto that like just flings violently because this is
Speaker 1: like a toddler who's like two or three years old.
Speaker 1: And then somehow this baby helps pull him up. That
Speaker 1: gone to the floor. This you know, hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: or seventy pound man and a two and a half
Speaker 1: year old baby, she pulls him up. That's a good
Speaker 1: point to cite that this is a very white movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is not what we tackle specifically, but worth mentioning, worth
Speaker 1: mentioning very few people of color in the movie. Well
Speaker 1: for something about New York is like okay, like throw
Speaker 1: a few Dominicans and please you know, there's also Robbie
Speaker 1: Robertson at the newspaper. But again, if you can't immediately
Speaker 1: think of him, that says everything. Oh right, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know his character's name, and I just know
Speaker 1: him as the guy who loves Spider Man and then
Speaker 1: us and but that is you know, it's a two
Speaker 1: hour movie and these people each you know, have a
Speaker 1: handful of lines, so not great anyway, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to put that out there that I love that a
Speaker 1: baby helps pull Spider Man. Shout out to baby. So
Speaker 1: do we have any final thoughts about the movie and
Speaker 1: how it portrays women before we get into talking about
Speaker 1: whether or not it passes the Bechdel test. I like
Speaker 1: was talking to my boyfriend about this this podcast and
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test, and he like knew a little bit
Speaker 1: about it, but then he's like, what is it really
Speaker 1: and then we like, don't worry Sophia. Couple doesn't know either,
Speaker 1: so we end up looking like I just like image
Speaker 1: searched the Beckdel test to show him the panels from
Speaker 1: Dikes to watch out for. And there are all these
Speaker 1: statistics that were related to the Bechdel test, you know,
Speaker 1: which movie does this versus that? But then there was
Speaker 1: also box office statistics. There's like a positive correlation between like,
Speaker 1: if your product passes the Bechdel test, it also earns
Speaker 1: more money. Yes, that's great to hear. And also I
Speaker 1: guess not that surprising. Women make up half of the
Speaker 1: population or more. Yeah, and they are. They go to movies.
Speaker 1: We we they those women. I'm one of them, those exceptions.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen that statistics too, and it's like
Speaker 1: not surprising at all. And it doesn't even mean that
Speaker 1: the that the movies are better, because the bar for
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test is like kind of absurdly low to
Speaker 1: make in with, it's insane. I mean, as we've discussed before,
Speaker 1: the Bechdel tests sort of examines a larger problem, which
Speaker 1: is that there just aren't enough women in movies. Most
Speaker 1: of the time. They often don't play a significant enough
Speaker 1: of a role where there would be several of them
Speaker 1: talking to each other, which is just like it said,
Speaker 1: a symptom of a larger problem where there's just not
Speaker 1: enough representation of women in most movies. It's weird to
Speaker 1: do like this episode about Spiderman two having very recently
Speaker 1: done a Wonder Woman episode which like just fare so
Speaker 1: much better how it passes in the test, and then
Speaker 1: also just portraying women like it just like you like, oh,
Speaker 1: woman's kicking out and driving this story well, and even
Speaker 1: look at the bane Batman movie with Catwoman, Like there's
Speaker 1: this whole subplot with her and Juno Temple like looking
Speaker 1: out for each other. And it doesn't take much, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And that's not time consuming. It's
Speaker 1: not really anything people talk about in hearts that movie,
Speaker 1: but it's yeah, it's something and it gives Yeah, And
Speaker 1: like for anyone listening to this writing their own stories
Speaker 1: and myths and whatnot, like just like start from scratch
Speaker 1: and be like, all right, what does the character want
Speaker 1: and how do they get it? Delete the like male
Speaker 1: love interest, and then ask also like what does this
Speaker 1: female character want and how does she get it? Like
Speaker 1: outside of like dating Spider Man. That's really just all
Speaker 1: you need to start and that you mentioned that. So
Speaker 1: in in the first Spider Man movie, she's like I
Speaker 1: want to move to New York and being actress, and
Speaker 1: then we see like a little scene where she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just had an audition and it didn't go very well.
Speaker 1: But then after that she seems to have a pretty
Speaker 1: successful acting career and modeling career because she's got this
Speaker 1: whole billboard like a perfume ad and then she's like
Speaker 1: one of the worst, but like and she's a terrible actress.
Speaker 1: She's but somehow she's still doing well. But it's like
Speaker 1: we never see her struggle in regards to her career
Speaker 1: just anything else about her life. She I love this
Speaker 1: boy who doesn't love me? Right, he just showed like yeah,
Speaker 1: there's it's just careless. Yeah. Um. But let's talk about
Speaker 1: whether or not the movie passes the Bechtel test. So
Speaker 1: the first scene where women interact is Peter's surprise birthday party,
Speaker 1: where aunt May goes, hey, I'm Jake, can you give
Speaker 1: me a hand? And m J says, there's This is
Speaker 1: one of those fucking infuriating scenes where it's like our
Speaker 1: antennas go right up because we're like, oh, two women
Speaker 1: are in the same scene. That's never happens. And then
Speaker 1: it's like every time they speak, you're like and then
Speaker 1: then it doesn't. This movie doesn't pass. But but there's
Speaker 1: another near oh maybe in that scene where again, and
Speaker 1: it's also ironic because they're both talking about domestic stuff
Speaker 1: while Peter and Harry are talking about business. Um, but
Speaker 1: aunt May says, let's go into the other room and
Speaker 1: get something to eat, and then m J says, I
Speaker 1: didn't know one in particular I'll get the O dirves.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't pick I didn't notice that one. But yeah,
Speaker 1: two women speaking consecutively right, not really to each other.
Speaker 1: And then the one I mentioned where she just goes,
Speaker 1: m that's not a response, that's on the conversation and
Speaker 1: she's not Yeah, she's not conversing because she's staring at
Speaker 1: Peter and walking backwards. And did they catch in like
Speaker 1: a fucking freak in the scene where James Franco goes,
Speaker 1: you're busy, you're taking pictures of Spiderman twenty times. You're
Speaker 1: busy pictures you're taking him. You tell me what didn't
Speaker 1: you appears like I don't know, Oh my god, and
Speaker 1: then they bring out the good night Bernard. There's an opportunity.
Speaker 1: There's an opportunity for that scene to pass. Really, they
Speaker 1: just need a few lines of dialogue back and forth
Speaker 1: between Aunt May and MJ. Doesn't happen. The next scene
Speaker 1: that I noticed was it's before MJ's show and she's
Speaker 1: talking to her cast mate, and her cast mate's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you've seen Jennery tonight, and I'm just like, you never
Speaker 1: know who's coming. The application is that Peter's coming, but
Speaker 1: find and it's like, not explicitly stated, it would be
Speaker 1: a past except except that we don't know that other
Speaker 1: characters name. Sorry, bitch. That's one of the caveats that
Speaker 1: we adhere to on the Bectel cast. We have to
Speaker 1: know the character's name because if they have a name,
Speaker 1: they're important enough to the story where we would need
Speaker 1: to know their name. But this character is pretty insignificant.
Speaker 1: And then there's the second interaction that they have on
Speaker 1: the street, well before that on the stage. Well, this
Speaker 1: is the fun exception one because the importance of being
Speaker 1: earnest does pass the Vactel test, and it passes the
Speaker 1: facteals test on screen, but it's not Spider Man too,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't written by anyone involved with Spider Man two.
Speaker 1: So even though we could argue, if you know the play,
Speaker 1: the importance of being earnest fun play, goofy nice, you
Speaker 1: could say, well, we do know those characters names if
Speaker 1: you have that knowledge of the play, that would be
Speaker 1: that's asking a lot of comic book family asking. It's
Speaker 1: asking a lot. And also it it doesn't and it's
Speaker 1: not written by anyone involved with Spider Man, so it's
Speaker 1: not it's a staged conversation that yeah, that's as close
Speaker 1: exists outside of yeah. And then also we still don't
Speaker 1: know that actress's name. And then they talk again after
Speaker 1: the show and she's like, you sure didn't want to
Speaker 1: come tonight, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm sure, a
Speaker 1: great joke. I'll call you later. And if she said, okay,
Speaker 1: thanks Steve, and then now we know the woman's name
Speaker 1: is Steve, and then it would have passed. But but
Speaker 1: we still don't know her name. So and then there's
Speaker 1: the scene where they're at the party for astronaut Mike
Speaker 1: Dexter and j Jonas Jamison's wife is like, beautiful dress,
Speaker 1: but the woman doesn't respond, and also we don't know
Speaker 1: her name or the woman she's talking to her name,
Speaker 1: so doesn't pass. I also forget, I mean, weird, not relevant,
Speaker 1: but Astronaut Mike Dexter's j Jonah Jamison's son that's in
Speaker 1: the calm, Yeah is he? And he and he just
Speaker 1: has like this perfect son. Well yeah, like he sir,
Speaker 1: he becomes like plot points. His mortality effects j Jonah
Speaker 1: Jamison's perception of Spider Man. I'll leave it at that
Speaker 1: um And the same with some of these throwaway characters
Speaker 1: is like like the ladies and stuff. They don't necessarily
Speaker 1: become anything more than just like objects for Peter Parker
Speaker 1: to like pine Over in the books. But I've been
Speaker 1: trying to remember if that like, yeah, the the neighbor girl,
Speaker 1: what her significance is, but I don't I keep But
Speaker 1: that's never an excuse. And again, even if it was
Speaker 1: like building to something that they thought they'd have, you know,
Speaker 1: four more films with like, they all still exist to
Speaker 1: like be his love interest. And sometimes like something that's
Speaker 1: adapted from a book or comic book, they'll give a nod.
Speaker 1: You know, they'll be like, oh, remember this, and like
Speaker 1: the comic book will know who this is. But if
Speaker 1: you're then going to put it in the movie, have
Speaker 1: it serve a purpose not just be like remember this thing?
Speaker 1: Do you recognize her? Cool? And if for everyone else
Speaker 1: suck off? I think that, I mean, I think that's
Speaker 1: why Astronaut Mike Dexter was kind of a fun character
Speaker 1: for me, because he is really the only male character
Speaker 1: in this and just in the context of strictly Spider
Speaker 1: Man too, He's the only male character who is as
Speaker 1: empty and purposeless as most of the female characters. So
Speaker 1: it's like, well they've got you know, Mike Dexter doesn't
Speaker 1: have a personality either. He's an astronaut, so if someone
Speaker 1: kisses him he says, I'm on the moon right now,
Speaker 1: it's like love this guy. So yeah, we conclude that
Speaker 1: the movie does not pass the Bechtel test. It does
Speaker 1: not not surprising. Like when James Franco yells to Alfred Mollino,
Speaker 1: you're a hack. That's a fun one. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to take that one to the green room there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the women don't even have good zingers except for the
Speaker 1: I mean, and they get on get off is not
Speaker 1: a zinger. It just landed funny. Right, Yeah, we'll give
Speaker 1: We'll give the credit to Kirsten on that one way
Speaker 1: to go. Good for you girl. Hey, let's write the
Speaker 1: movie on our nipples scale. We have a scale of
Speaker 1: zero to five nipples, where we rate the movie based
Speaker 1: on its portrayal of women. I give it one nipple.
Speaker 1: Who boy, I mean, Aunt May pretty good character for
Speaker 1: who she is. But the only other substantial female character
Speaker 1: is the main one, Mary Jane m j. Everyone else
Speaker 1: like Miss Brandt and the landlord's daughter and dock Ox
Speaker 1: wife Rosie. They you know, they're on screen for mere
Speaker 1: minutes if that, and they don't have much to do
Speaker 1: with the story, and neither does Mary Jane. Like she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm here and wearing a dress. You can see my nipples.
Speaker 1: You better capture me, take me to a tower, hold
Speaker 1: me captive, chain me up, Chain me baby. Speaking of chains,
Speaker 1: because how do I feel about because you are because
Speaker 1: you are a man, we did have to chain you
Speaker 1: to the chair and you're bound. Yeah, you're You're very good,
Speaker 1: you know, but that is the price you pay for
Speaker 1: this podcast. Your our first guest in like fifteen episodes
Speaker 1: that has been a man, and I begged to be
Speaker 1: on this broke the record and providing we had a
Speaker 1: minute lashing out. Excellent shot. But in any case, so good, No,
Speaker 1: you're wonderful, Thank you so much. But um yeah, so
Speaker 1: m J. She sucks. She's a very watered down character,
Speaker 1: you know, no depth, no dimension, just exists to be
Speaker 1: captured and saved by the bad guys and the good guys.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I because m J is just not a
Speaker 1: good character. And the movie doesn't pass the back to tests,
Speaker 1: and the portrayal woman not great. In this movie, not
Speaker 1: surprising for superhero movies, especially of the era of the
Speaker 1: early two thousand's uh yeah, one nipple. It belongs to
Speaker 1: Toby McGuire in the scene where he takes up his
Speaker 1: shirt in the window as he's getting ready for MJ's play.
Speaker 1: Why do we need to see him take off his shirt?
Speaker 1: We don't, But I like that it's there. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's Sam Raimi shouting, like just in case anyone's
Speaker 1: interested in whatever's going on there. I just I like
Speaker 1: that we get sort of like because usually if there's
Speaker 1: like unneeded nudity in a film, it's a woman taking
Speaker 1: your clothes off, but now we get Toby maguire and
Speaker 1: his like chise old Spider Man exo skeleton body. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give it two apples, maybe maybe one and
Speaker 1: a half instead of two. And I really, I really
Speaker 1: do love this movie a lot. I had a great
Speaker 1: time watching it for Alpha Bolena, but also just because
Speaker 1: I think it's a super fun movie and superhero movies
Speaker 1: have a really hard time keeping my attention and this
Speaker 1: one never has, never will but the same reasons. I
Speaker 1: think Aunt May is really the only fully realized female
Speaker 1: character in this movie. And even then, all of her
Speaker 1: actions and motivations are tied to the men in her life.
Speaker 1: It does not do a good job with its female characters.
Speaker 1: M J sucks all the other women we don't know
Speaker 1: because we don't know them. Hey, one of them really
Speaker 1: likes chocolate cake. That's her defining characters. Cake girl story.
Speaker 1: I don't even care, but I get I'll give it
Speaker 1: one and half nipples, and they belong to Bernard, who
Speaker 1: I know isn't expecting that. Good night, Bernard even see
Speaker 1: fun enough from Melina's nipples in this movie. You can
Speaker 1: see the nipples in a lot of movies. To be fair,
Speaker 1: you can trust me. I have like one of those
Speaker 1: corkboards at home. You can figure out exactly what moments
Speaker 1: in time you can anyway the nipple. Yeah, I'm going
Speaker 1: to give it one nipple as well. Because of everything
Speaker 1: you both said, I don't have much else to add
Speaker 1: to it. The nipple I picked, though, is Mary Jane's
Speaker 1: nipple from the first one. It exemplifies everything that we
Speaker 1: take umbradge with, which is like women only like fit
Speaker 1: best to inspire, uplift and challenge men not like to
Speaker 1: be their own. So like here's this like dumb like
Speaker 1: Lolita nipple, you know what I mean. Um, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is a fun movie. That's what's that's what sucks
Speaker 1: about it is that you want to like it, but
Speaker 1: it just they just stopped after like all right, well
Speaker 1: we have like a good Spider Man journey, but not
Speaker 1: like I don't know. Yeah, and I think about the
Speaker 1: movie about like New Yorkers and all these voices and stuff.
Speaker 1: It's it's amazingly like everything is just like a wash.
Speaker 1: You know. Thank you so much for being here, a
Speaker 1: really lovely time. I learned so much about Alfred Molina.
Speaker 1: Happy to follow up. Subscribe to the newsletter. Where can
Speaker 1: people follow you online? You can find me pretty much
Speaker 1: on any social media platform just by typing s I
Speaker 1: N A g R A c ian you know you
Speaker 1: put an APT sign in front of it, or dot
Speaker 1: com at the end of it. Look me up, hang out.
Speaker 1: I try to buy your book. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Does the I don't know that the book passes the
Speaker 1: Bechdel test only only in that so many scenes are
Speaker 1: one on one interactions with me and a person. But
Speaker 1: the women in it talk about a lot of things
Speaker 1: that aren't romance, like we talk about careers, we talk
Speaker 1: about grief like and then relationships because that's me. But
Speaker 1: that's me, that's not what I think, like, oh, like
Speaker 1: this is what you use a girl for, like you know.
Speaker 1: So the book doesn't necessarily pass, but it gets a
Speaker 1: pass because it's okay. Many of my favorite movies don't
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel test. I still love them, but Experiment
Speaker 1: two is in my not movies don't yell at me.
Speaker 1: I would say The Raiders are the Lost Ark another
Speaker 1: Alfred Molina joint and joint that he's in again for
Speaker 1: two minutes. I would not say passes the Backtel test,
Speaker 1: but hey, let's do an episode about it. Let's find
Speaker 1: out anyway. Yeah, by seeing his book, Nothing Last Forever.
Speaker 1: Thanks again for being here. It's been wonderful. You can
Speaker 1: follow us at Backtel cast, on Twitter, on Instagram. You
Speaker 1: can listen to us and rate us and review us
Speaker 1: on iTunes. So many platforms, so little bit time. Engage
Speaker 1: with us on the platforms. We love tweet on us,
Speaker 1: especially if your name is Alfred Molina. Answer and as
Speaker 1: of today is during he has not tweeted back. Also,
Speaker 1: we have a new what am I trying to say? Hey,
Speaker 1: do you love the backdel Cast? Do you want to
Speaker 1: think it less of a financial burden on the creators
Speaker 1: of the back Doel Cast to continue the backdel Cast,
Speaker 1: which you listen to for free all the time. Good news,
Speaker 1: We will happily accept your money. That is what I
Speaker 1: was trying to say. Yeah, we have an opportunity if
Speaker 1: you so choose to kick us a few dollars, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe spike us a few dollars if you're a Volley
Speaker 1: doll gap, whatever verbs you choose. Yeah, we um have
Speaker 1: some costs that we have to pay for it to
Speaker 1: produce this podcast, and we would love it if you
Speaker 1: guys could donate. Hey, maybe a dollar a week or
Speaker 1: like a chunk of five, whatever you want. Like, we
Speaker 1: encourage you to donate to our show the way you
Speaker 1: went to your church, so that's about ten percent. Give
Speaker 1: up your religion and then give it to us instead.
Speaker 1: We are your new religion. Welcome to your new religion.
Speaker 1: We are going to need a lot of your money. Uh,
Speaker 1: if you want to call us up and confess things
Speaker 1: to us, we're available around. Yeah, we have a PayPal
Speaker 1: account that you can donate to if you go to
Speaker 1: PayPal dot me backslash actual cast you can throw throw
Speaker 1: us another verb, throw us a few dollars. They can
Speaker 1: hurl like a hurling a discus in the Olympics. Exact
Speaker 1: tight tight, Yeah, you can hurt us. What's the verb
Speaker 1: that they use in curling? That like Canadian ice? Cur
Speaker 1: us dollar or two curls? Hey, you want to curl
Speaker 1: me over a dollar? I'd love to Jamie, thank you
Speaker 1: so much? Oh ya out? So that's something you do, um,
Speaker 1: it would really help us out. We'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I think I have good night Bernard pulled up on
Speaker 1: my compoke. Harry is looking at clips. He's hitting the table.
Speaker 1: Where are your only obsession? Night? Oh it's so funny
Speaker 1: And with that good night Burner