WEBVTT - Spider-Man 2 with Sina Grace 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.120 On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked movies have 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:07.160 women in um? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.639 Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.320 start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello, and 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.000 welcome to the beck Del Cast. This is our this 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.439 is our best episode yet. My name is Jamie, my 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.520 name is Caitlin, and welcome to the best episode of 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.080 the Beckdel Cast. You're ever going to hear in your 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.280 goddamn life. This is uh podcast about the role of 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.960 women in movies today. What is it about? I guess 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.839 we'll just find out wit movie today. It's more like 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.479 an Alfred Moina themed fan show kind of I don't know, 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.880 like the celebration of him and his career. We should 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.640 have warned our guests how much we will probably talk 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:52.240 about Alfred what's his name? Oh my god, Alfred Molina. Sorry, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.760 I had a stroke, but um, Jamie's obsessed with Alfred Molina. 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.320 I'm gonna try to steer the conversation away. He rush 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.200 had a large poster. We should have sent an email. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.600 I had a large poster of Dot Dock in my room. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.120 My parents thought I like comics. I was just all 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:15.119 horned up for Alfred. Wait, but so he's not exactly 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.959 the choose your words poster child of sex icon and 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.679 Spiderman too, not at a cake, so it still works 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.200 for you. I got into the beefcakes very early. All right, 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.600 real quick, So we'll give you a proper introduction. But 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:36.679 first let's just dive right into. So we have a 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.600 podcast inspired by the back Doel test, which requires that 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.959 the movie, the show, the comic book, whenever story you're consuming. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.680 It requires that there are two female characters who have names, 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.520 who talk to each other in the conversation has to 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.800 be about something other than a man. We talked about that, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.560 we talked about how women are portrayed just in general 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.080 in the movie, and we have a great time. As 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:03.520 you said, best episode yet, Yeah, this is our I 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.600 would guess around our thirty fifth episode pretty close, and 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:08.720 I would say we've talked about al from Mollina and 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:15.000 I would say at least seven of those episodes conservatively, Yeah, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.880 maybe thirty four. I don't know if we mentioned him 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.680 in like the Heather's episode, but but maybe. But sometimes 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.480 he finds a way. Is he's such a character actor 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.919 that sometimes you see another character actor, and you're like, well, 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.160 I wish I had been out from Mollina, but he did. Fine, 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.760 That's how I feel about most beefcake character actors, like 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.240 no Alfred Mollina. But yeah, he did the job he 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.320 was paid to do. So before we get too carried 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.560 away with a from Molina, let's introduce our guest. He 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.640 writes in draws graphic novels. He is writing Iceman for 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.280 Marvel right now. He also has a graphic novel called 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:57.919 Nothing Last Forever Seen a Grace, which, you know what 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.440 fighting words between me two. Alright, I'm not involved. We'll 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.520 hash this out over the course of an hour. We'll 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.760 figure this out. Let's see how I do the movie. 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:14.200 The movie we're talking about today is Spider Man two Parentheses, 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:16.520 two thousand and four. In case you're like, oh, what 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.480 if it's the Andrew Garfield, No, and it's not. It's Toby. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.240 It's it's Toby. Should we say it like Jennifer Connelly 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.359 and Labyrinth Toby? Oh my god, I forgot that. That's 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.480 how Because Toby is the baby right, oh right, baby 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:35.320 Toby Toby McGuire. We can make the argument of this 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.960 maybe perhaps being the peak of Toby McGuire's career so far. 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.160 I think he's got another he's got a second wind. Yeah, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.840 I mean this is this, you know, his biggest role. Um, 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.880 I do great. I think he's a really fun Spider Man. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.320 I like him. What he's all right? All right, well 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:57.120 what do you think seeing that he looks like Peter Parker, 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.640 Like you can't shake that, but he does this. Uh 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.040 he just kind of like looks dumb the whole time, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.960 like he's like, oh, I'm sorry, Imlee, And he's laid 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.680 a lot in this movie a couple of different plot points. 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.840 They really just like because the last time I saw this, 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:16.840 I was in high school and like saying this as 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.960 a grown up, I'm like, man, they just really beat 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.839 down the themes on the viewer, like they're just like, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.080 all right, our average viewer is seven, so we really 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.560 need to just be like Peter Parker is always late 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.400 because he's Spider Man and he doesn't know what to do. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.599 There's been a disturbance, that's his line. There were disturbance. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.280 That's why I was late to your play. And it's like, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.040 just tell everyone if I was Spider Man, I tell everybody. 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.400 I tweeted every day. Hey everyone, I'm Spiderman. Give me 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:53.880 money crowdfund. Yeah, yeah, Spiderman Patreon the crowd Yeah, that 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.160 would work. Probably. Yeah, I will say that. In this 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:03.599 movie tell me reguire. There's so much physical humor. He's 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:08.159 doing straight up slapstick McGuire. There's that scene at the 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.480 beginning where there's like the mops in the closet and 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.800 he's like, I can't get all these mops in this closet, 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:19.120 and featuring Emily is yeah with a weird she only 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.880 has one line back to the backdel cast um and uh, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.400 and she gives off this weird New Yorker acts and 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:31.240 she's like you late yeah, and I'm like, listen bones. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.719 There's so many so I made a list of all 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.760 of the bit characters in this movie. There are four 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:45.720 hundred characters in this movie. Male, female, child, which children 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.320 could be of all genders. Uh, I'm not doing good 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:53.520 so far. This is supposed to be. I shouldn't let 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.159 him know that. Yeah, you're really setting us up failure. 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.880 There's so many bit characters it's insane. I made. There's 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.080 the guy who runs the pizza place, Emily Decianelle, who 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.960 doesn't want to pay for the pizza. There's Elizabeth Banks 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.320 in a wig. She comes up a couple of times. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.400 I always have to do a double take to remember 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.200 that it's her because it's such a weird I had 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.800 totally forgotten. Yes, yeah, yeah, I don't know if that's 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.840 her last name. There's the daughter of the landlord. There's 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.839 the landlord there, and we'll get to that weird scene 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.240 with the cake. There's a bunch of journalists. There's a 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.320 million towns people who go like, well, Spider Man Like, 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.040 there's the doctor in the tight eyed T shirt. Yep, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.760 that's a weird one. Ussher elevator guy Joel McHale. Uh. 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.440 The usher is played by Bruce Campbell. I was like, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.280 is it? And then I was like, all right, Sam 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.960 Raimi directed Evil Daddy directed the Spider Man movies. It 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.840 makes sense that he gives Bruce a little role this movie. 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.640 It makes a lot more sense when I watching it now, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.800 where I'm like, oh, this is a Sam Ramy movie. 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.520 Like the very scary, violent scenes out of nowhere, You're like, oh, 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.400 this because he's horrible Boy, and I think that was 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.760 kind of horrible by Horrible Boy that's what they call him. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:11.400 And then My favorite bit character was Harry's butler, who 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.400 is in exactly one scene and James Franco's you know, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.680 like doing his James Franco thing, and he's like, oh god, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.880 sport like just brooding, and his butler, who's very old, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.560 shouts from across the room, your father only obsessed over 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:29.480 his work. And then James Freaco dismisses him by saying 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:34.480 good night Bernard, and then he turns around it leaves, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.680 never to be seen again. I don't know how many 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.480 actors got their sag card off of being on the 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.040 side of this movie for like twenty five seconds, but 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.000 there's so it's so weird. Also, the name of the 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:50.600 butler's Bernard, not Bernard unless James Franco just funked up 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.680 that long entirely, he's a good night Bernard. There's no 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.000 ber nerd good night Bernard. And then Bernard turns her 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.400 out and leaves, and that's and it's so funny because 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.360 if you think about like Batman's butler, sure you know, 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.040 the famous one, and then you've got Bernard as one 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.480 line and then he's like, well, you're right, I'm gonna 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:19.720 right off, and then he does grand that actor made. 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.840 So you know, let's talk about, Um, when did you 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.360 first see the movie? And like, what's your history with 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:31.040 because you you right for Marvel, you you're like Universe? 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.200 How is about? Because Jamie and I we recently did 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.880 an episode about Wonder Woman, and I revealed that I've 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.760 never read a comic book in my entire life. Sorry everybody, Yeah, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.640 so um, because I'm not a fucking nerd, just kidding, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.679 I am. I'm a graphic novel gut, but I've never 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.400 been a comics gale. Yes. So I saw Spider Man 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.440 two in high school with my friend Eric Merrowitz. Actually 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:00.400 he's like, he's a cool guy. I such a big 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.600 crush on him, and we would have like sleepovers and 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.880 make each other mixes, and I just like, I was 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.000 always like, how do I sort this out? Didn't happen 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:11.839 because he's straight. But anyway, back to Spiderman. But hey, Eric, 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:17.000 love the weight loss. Glad you're married. Um, but I 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.320 always loved Spider Man as a hero. To to tie 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.120 it into work stuff, you know, it's fun to be 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.640 writing this book called Ice Man, where it's about this 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.800 guy who's trying to give himself a fresh start, but 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.800 he's like thirty something or like early thirties, late twenties, 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.760 and it's interesting to try and be like, Okay, well, 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.640 how do I give him sort of Spiderman adventures where 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.400 every challenge basically speaks to his like personal life and 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.840 his superhero identity. And then on top of that, you know, 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.000 I think the magical thing about Spiderman is like he's 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.120 never really good enough to win these fights. And the 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.600 thing that sets him apart from everyone else's like spirit 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.599 and ingenuity, and that's kind of the beautiful and inspiring 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.200 thing about him is this like parting sentence from Uncle 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.720 Ben kept him on like a track to be like 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.400 the good guy and to do the right thing. And 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.440 this movie is really weird about that, by the way, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.000 Like he's like I'm kind of tired and I'm just 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.640 over it. Someone would give up for an act and 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:13.120 it's all of like a four minute montage and rain 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.080 drops keeping fun montage. I like that he becomes like 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.160 Spidy impotent. He's like, my jee doesn't come out of 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.160 my roost anymore. Well, I want to talk about that too, 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.280 because we have discussed on the podcast before the James 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.760 Cameron draft of the two thousand to a movie which 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.160 bangs you over the head with the jiz metaphor never 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.360 read heard tell of this for the best. But James 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.240 Cameron did the first draft of the two Thou script 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.680 and it's very like, I mean, we read the scene 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.840 where it's like Peter part and it's the webs are Jiz, 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.440 very clearly laid out Act one by James Cameron, and 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.640 so I was like, I can't I couldn't stop thinking 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:53.160 about that because I was just like, did he run 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.439 out of come? Like what he's out of come because 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.280 he's afraid? And I guess that makes sense. But in 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:04.520 this world, thankfully the webs are not come. There something 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.560 more well, not that come isn't meaningful, but you know what, No, 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.760 I mean it's not. It is for a man, right, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.079 I could take it or leave it, but for minutes, 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.880 the entire like basis of spirituality is like how big 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:25.000 their loads are? So maybe it is spermatuality everyone that 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:29.520 you're gonna have branded shirts spermature but yeah, anyway, yeah, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.120 So I saw this in high school, and it's funny 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.800 because I didn't really much like it in high school, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.319 and then I rewatched it to prepare myself for this 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.320 and my relationship with it is a little different now 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.440 because I was looking at it in consideration of like 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.760 the Bechdel cast, like I really don't like it, but 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.800 I also do like some things about it. It ages 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.960 interestingly and as a grown up, I love you know 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.760 when you were talking about all the sort of big characters, like, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.720 that's such a New York thing that you kind of 0:11:57.840 --> 0:11:59.920 even if it's just for like a moment, you just 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.000 have this like sense of this person where they are, 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.719 with their identity, like just these like micro glimpses of 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.800 all these little New Yorkers. That's such a Spider Man 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.280 thing and that was done pretty effectively in this movie. 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.640 But it was a funny movie. It's a it's a 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.480 really funny movie. In consideration of this podcast. Yeah, I 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.440 mean it's frustrating how women are portrayed in it, but 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.440 it's not. It wasn't like a chore for me to watch. 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:22.640 I wasn't like, oh, I have to watch Spider Man. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:27.040 It's a fun movie. And yeah, but on Rotten to 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.360 make if you can believe, I remember when it came out, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.280 I was really into reading Roger Ebert's reviews, and he 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.559 at the time said this may be the best superhero 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.640 movie I've ever seen. That. Yeah, I had a boyfriend 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.920 who loved Yeahbert, Yeah, I had a boyfriend who loved 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.720 What is with that? Oh, Zibert hits it's dude, who 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.840 like you want to feel valid about watching movies? Yeah yeah, 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.280 but I mean he was like the premier film critic 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.440 at the time. Well sure, no, I'm just saying it's 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.160 it's funny that so many people have like a fixation 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.400 on him in particular, and they're like Maltingale myself, please 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.960 have a crush on letter. You really need to have 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.520 a separate podcast. Like, I'm just putting that out there, right. 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.920 So we chose so exactly. Well, we there's a new 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.079 Spider Man movie coming out, and we're like, we got 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.679 to do a Spider Man episode, but we've skipped the 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.920 first one because we skipping right over that, and we 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.600 got to do Spider Man two because of Alfred Molina. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.839 Although there's some interesting things, I do want to point 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.319 out some some fun things that happened in the first 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.880 Spiderman because I also rewatched it. I was just like 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.199 I gotta get you know, I gotta get my bearings. Well, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.440 it's fun. I think I might even like it better 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.720 than Spiderman two critics wise two wins out. I think, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.719 I think so, I'm pretty sure I do. I love 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.719 an origin story, right, so I enjoyed that about the 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.640 first Spider Man unique I'm sick of origin stories. Well 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:59.480 maybe now, maybe because they've done a lot, but they're 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.720 not are not fun to watch now or that's my 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.800 problem with origin stories is now, I don't know, the 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.679 tone of most comic book movies is so serious and 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:10.880 it's just like That's why it was fun to go 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.160 back to this movie because I was like, oh, this 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:17.040 is like really goofy and kind of dumb. But I 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.480 was like, oh, this is like I don't feel heavy 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.280 after watching this movie. It's like very very there's so 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.560 much levity to it. Anytime he's at the planet. Now 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.280 now I'm about to get like destroyed by people listening. 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:34.440 Hasn't the Planet Daily Planet? But like yeah, any scene 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.120 with like j Jonah Jamison's always like even though it's 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.760 so arch, it's just kind of like you just like 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.760 want to believe in a world where like the photographer 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.840 talks to the editor in chief like like one on 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.040 one and like asks for advances for like, you know, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:53.160 to photos like it's so and and I feel like 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.920 if just for the sake of argument, feel free to 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.600 disagree if they, you know, in the newer Spider Man, 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.360 and it does seemed like this New Spider Man sort 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.560 of going for a more lighthearted I think, where with 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.960 the Andrew Garfield they're like, oh, this is like Captain 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.320 America Civil War, which is where we first see this 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.080 rendition of Spider Man. He was fun, he's a kid, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:19.160 he's like I kid, he's the leading Billy Elliott, he's 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.000 a dancer, he's living his life. But I feel like 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.800 the tendency with most movies now would be like you 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.160 see Jajoe and Jamison and yeah, he's got a couple 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.640 of funny lines, but we also learned that there's more 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.640 to him than and I'm just like, I'm so happy 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.080 with j jon and Jamison just being like, Nope, I'm selfish, 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.280 I suck, I'm weird, I'm yelling. I love j K. 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.080 Simmons is portrayal of that character though. It's so fun. 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.600 It's great. Wait, so I'm going to talk about the 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.400 things that happened in Spider Man one, just to transition 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.120 us into Spiderman too. There's a scene and this is 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.720 relevant to the podcast because there's a scene early on 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.360 in the First Spider Man where Peter Parker he lives 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.960 next door to Mary Jane, and he's like, I'm gonna 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.640 look into her window and he just spies on her 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.520 when she's in her bedroom. It's creepy, Yeah, with that 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.680 Toby Maguire, like those glassy eyes, Like, hey, he does 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.960 kind of have like a dumb face. Yeah. And then 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.560 m J needs to be saved in this movie once 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.960 at the parade, once when there's like four rape dudes 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.000 trying to like mug and attack her. And then she 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.680 needs to be saved again at the end when it's 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.600 a Spider Man having to choose between her or a 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.560 bust full of children. Oh yeah, I want to fun. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.800 Basically in that movie and in this movie, MJ's pretty 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.640 much only role is to be like, I'm a person 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.880 that just needs to be saved over and over. This 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.200 is the most frustrating part of the movie in context 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.760 of the theme of our podcast. The two characters. Obviously, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.880 m J is just I feel like she's just like 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:05.320 this recycled inciting incident for Peter Parker to learn another 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.679 lesson and make a choice. He makes a choice to 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.440 not be Spider Man because he loves them day and 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.440 then he becomes Spider Man because and then he can't 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:13.920 be with m J. But then he can, and it's 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.120 blah blah blah blah, and it's like, what does she do? 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.159 She's somehow a famous actress. Was she even in the 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.719 drama club in high school? How did this happen? We 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.800 don't know, we don't care. And then the other character 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.679 that really bothered me, and I didn't even register for 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.800 me the first time I saw this because I was 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.560 just like, you know, so wet for Alfred Molina and 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:39.000 this child in the theater, just soaking wet for this 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:45.600 grown man. But Doc Ox wife Rosie Octavius, perfect name, 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.840 a great name, Rosie oc. She's in a couple of scenes, 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.040 but she only really speaks in one scene where Peter 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.760 Parker's over and Doc Doc is, you know, Alfred Mollena. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.520 He's holding court. He's like, I love science, I love 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:05.879 my wife. You know, she heske me. How are we compatible? 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:10.680 But I don't understand ts Eliott. That's the only the 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.200 only things that Rosie says, like her opening is like, hey, Peter, 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.679 do you have a girlfriend. It's like okay, So she 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.320 she's a plot device right off the bat, and then 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.480 they start to talk about like, oh now Rosie exists 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.720 to prove that Dr Octavius is a is a good guy, 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.800 and he's talking about how he loves her, and of 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.240 course she's an English major. Of course she can't be 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.800 a fellow fucking scientists. They're like, no, she's sensitive, she's 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.280 she reads TS S. Eliot and then she's like I do, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.399 and she doesn't bring any new information. She exists to 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:47.159 validate Doc Doc as a character who is not a 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.560 bad guy, so it will will feel it more when 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.879 he goes bad. And then basically the next time we 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.040 see her, she's very proud of him. And then she 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.440 has killed by a shard of glass presumably to her juggular, well, 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.480 by a lot a shard to blast. There's like a hole. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:06.919 But then she dies, right, and she dies for to 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.879 serve another plot point, which is this is the inciting incident. 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.200 For a while, Doc has nothing to lose. He lost 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.600 his wife, he loved her and now he has no 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.080 one and you know who cares, But we never find 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.440 out She's like I think referenced vaguely one other time. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.840 We never find out if she has a funeral service, 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.600 if Doc is allowed to attend this funeral service, and 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.840 we never ever ever hear of her again. She just 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.400 like serves two very specific points to flesh out this 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:44.280 I mean statuesque amazing, gorgeous man, and then she's killed 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.320 and then we never hear about her again. So my 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.479 real question is, like, how hard was it for you 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.240 to like not just stare at out for Molina in 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.639 her scenes? Like how much work did it take for 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.640 you to do this work? Like I mean this time, 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.159 I mean, I've had to build up the stamina to 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.719 not just stare at Some days are easier than others. 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.840 Every day is there's other people in this scene, there's yeah, 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.720 And just like I keep forgetting that there's two other 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.840 actors in this scene, are I mean Alfa Bilina truly 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.320 steals every scene he's in. Sometimes he steals every scene 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.240 he's in to the point where they're like, let's put 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.159 no one else in this scene. Let's just let Alfred 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.919 Mellina do a three minute Shakespearean monologue talking to his 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:32.120 own claws, and it's still amazing. Heh wait, I want 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.440 to make two one. He could not attend Rosie's funeral 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.040 service because he was too busy stealing money from a bank. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.399 You know how banks just have bags of coins. The 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.600 cartoony bank. I love the cartoony bank that Joel McHale 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.400 works at that gives away toasters, that gives away toasters, 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.439 and that only has no paper cash, no like stacks 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:55.679 of just bags of gold coins. Alfa Millina also for 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.840 that scene, goes into the bank you know, clause blazing, 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:05.560 and has somehow acquired a villainous fedora. Just for that scene. 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.800 He's wearing a fedora to rob the cartoony Joel McHale bank. 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.040 And I mean, that's like another fun part of this 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.159 movie for me, is I feel like there's so many 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:18.240 scenes that are just interrupted by very cartoonish acts of 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.680 violence and it's so fun. Like it's you know, there's 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.160 the whole scene where it's like, Aunt may I can't 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.160 get a bank loan and Joel McHale's there and they're 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.919 not gonna get toaster and pure feels bad, and then 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.919 all of a sudden, cut to Alfred Molina bags of 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.760 gold fedora and it's just suddenly a completely different scene, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.800 or the the other one where Kirsten Dunce is leaning 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.879 in and you get that weird shot of her like 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.159 about to kiss you. That was a weird shot, and 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:49.680 then cut to car burst through the window. End of serious. 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.119 I really like this movie. I think it's so fun. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:55.879 Oh god. Well, the other point I wanted to make 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.600 about doc Cock is that here's some hot speculation from 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.200 Kate and I would argue that Peter Parker, he's like, 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.920 I want to meet my idol Auto Octavius, and he 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.280 was like, I don't really have time for students right now. 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:14.200 And here he goes. He's like, okay, fine, you pay 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.560 the bills. Saw me with your dumb friend, and he 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:18.879 spends all this time with him, Like Peter Parker goes 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.199 over to his house and like they have tea with it, 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:22.960 like his wife. I think it's like there's spending a 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.159 lot of time together. Here's the thing that took away 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:31.520 time that Octavius needed to do his calculations because he 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.800 fucked up and the demonstration goes all wrong and that's 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:37.360 what turns him into doc Ock. So really, man, isn't 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.880 another Parker ends up creating the monster he would later 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:46.360