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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Last year, in January, Sylvia Duran woke up to something strange.

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Speaker 3: It was a Friday, and I was going to have

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Speaker 3: a really busy day, so I immediately checked my phone

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Speaker 3: to see what meetings I had that day, and I

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Speaker 3: couldn't access my calendar.

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Speaker 2: Sylvia worked at Google. She had a high level role

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Speaker 2: on a YouTube marketing team and had been there for

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Speaker 2: nearly a decade. She assumed something was wrong with her phone.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I thought that there was a bug, some kind

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Speaker 3: of bug on my phone. It's happened sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Sylvia mentioned the issue to her husband at the time,

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Speaker 2: who had a different take.

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Speaker 3: He told me, WHOA, isn't that a sign? And I said,

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Speaker 3: a sign of what? And he said that you were

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Speaker 3: laid off.

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Speaker 2: There had been some rumors about layoffs at YouTube, but

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Speaker 2: Sylvia wasn't too worried. After all, the company was doing

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Speaker 2: well money. Why would they lay people off?

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Speaker 3: I laughed it off. I said, no, that's not what's happening.

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Speaker 2: But that was exactly what was happening. Sylvia, along with

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Speaker 2: twelve thousand of her colleagues across Google, had been let go.

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Speaker 2: Sylvia says She was in shock.

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Speaker 3: It felt unreal and at the same time like all

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Speaker 3: of my worst thoughts about myself had come true. That,

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Speaker 3: of course I was selected to be laid off because

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Speaker 3: I never belonged there in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Sylvia loved her job. She worked hard at it, and

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Speaker 2: being part of the company with such a central part

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Speaker 2: of her identity. Her mom even called her my mini Google.

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Speaker 3: They were really really proud of me, and I think

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Speaker 3: that they were surprised because in theory, I was a

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Speaker 3: strong performer, and so why does a strong performer lose

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Speaker 3: their job.

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Speaker 2: As she started to process what had happened, she began

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Speaker 2: cycling through emotions shock, sadness, shame.

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Speaker 3: I started a question for myself, why am I feeling

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Speaker 3: this way? Why am I feeling so ashamed? And I

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Speaker 3: wanted to talk about it. I'm someone who processes verbally,

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Speaker 3: so I asked my brother, who has his own podcast.

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Speaker 3: I told him would he be gained to record an

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Speaker 3: episode where I just processed my feelings? Welcome to the

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Speaker 3: One of a Kind Podcast. I recorded the first episode

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Speaker 3: three days after I got laid off. I didn't think

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Speaker 3: I was going to share it with the world.

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Speaker 1: But she did.

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Speaker 2: In her very first episode where she talked about her

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Speaker 2: layoff and how it affected her.

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Speaker 3: After like almost a decade of my life there and

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Speaker 3: the way that I went down, it was not a

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Speaker 3: good experience, and I'm trying to process that.

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Speaker 2: Used to be if you got laid off, you didn't

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Speaker 2: talk about it, You hit it, fibbed about it. Even

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Speaker 2: not anymore. Now you start a podcast today on the show,

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Speaker 2: the hottest new job market trend is posting publicly about

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Speaker 2: your layoff, owning it, sharing it, and feeling your feelings

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Speaker 2: in real time for the world to see what the

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Speaker 2: shift in how we approach layoffs means for employees and

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Speaker 2: employers everywhere. This is the big take from Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder. Getting laid off isn't a new phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg reporter Joe Constant says that's thanks to one very

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Speaker 2: famous American CEO.

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Speaker 1: Jack Welch, just kind of made the practice routine as

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Speaker 1: a way to meet quarterly earnings targets and for financial reasons.

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Speaker 2: Jack Welch became the CEO of General Electric in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one, and when he started there, layoffs were pretty

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Speaker 2: much a last resort for most companies. They were seen

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Speaker 2: as a sign that a company was struggling or even failing.

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Speaker 2: For Welch, though, layoffs became part of a proactive strategy.

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Speaker 2: He would have all his employees ranked every year, and

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Speaker 2: every year he would fire the bottom ten percent. He

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Speaker 2: called it the vitality curve, and in his first few

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Speaker 2: years at GE he laid off more than one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand workers. The practice caught on it became known as

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Speaker 2: the Jack Welch rule, and since then layoffs have been

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Speaker 2: seen as a good way to signal fiscal prudence for companies.

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Speaker 1: The cost of labor is one of the highest costs

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Speaker 1: on their balance sheet, and so it's something that executives

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Speaker 1: are thinking about a lot in terms of how much

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Speaker 1: they're spending on their workforce.

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Speaker 2: Layoffs are now just a reality of the American corporate workplace.

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Speaker 1: A professor that I talked to at Harvard Business School

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Speaker 1: mentioned that part of the point of some of the

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Speaker 1: layoffs now is to signal to investors that a company

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Speaker 1: is serious about their cost cutting. So in that sense,

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Speaker 1: they're signaling publicly as well, versus oftentimes in previous decades

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Speaker 1: it was less so the case.

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Speaker 2: But how workers grappled with that reality change during COVID

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Speaker 2: when layoffs hit their highest level in decades.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean the pandemic was a huge shift in

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Speaker 1: this dynamic. We saw millions of people who were thrown

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Speaker 1: out of work and it wasn't their fault, whereas you

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Speaker 1: know in the before times, there was always kind of

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Speaker 1: this idea that if you were laid off, it really

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Speaker 1: was your fault in some way, even if it was

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Speaker 1: a business driven decision and didn't have anything to do

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Speaker 1: with you directly as a person in your performance at work.

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Speaker 1: And so that I think was a massive change.

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Speaker 2: There was also the way people got laid off during

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Speaker 2: the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: In decades past, you were in an office, you had

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Speaker 1: to pack up your things, put them in a box,

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Speaker 1: kind of walk out of the building or be walked out.

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Speaker 1: It was public in a different way in front of

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Speaker 1: your coworkers. Now sperience is completely different. You know, often

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Speaker 1: it is on zoom and when you get that announcement

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Speaker 1: and you shut your laptop, it's over, and you kind

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Speaker 1: of don't have the same visceral feeling of closure that

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Speaker 1: you might have had if you were in a physical office.

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Speaker 1: It feels a little bit more surreal and removed.

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Speaker 2: One way to combat that disembodied feeling was to share

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Speaker 2: the experience with others, not just with your former work

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Speaker 2: from home coworkers, but with the world. What were some

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Speaker 2: of the signs that we were thinking about layoffs differently

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Speaker 2: in the pandemic?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know. On LinkedIn, we started to

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Speaker 1: see so many people posting about getting laid off, they

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Speaker 1: were looking for work. LinkedIn released their open to Work banner,

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Speaker 1: the kind of green banner that you see on people's profiles.

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Speaker 2: LinkedIn introduced it's green open to Work banner in June

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and since then thirty three million people have

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Speaker 2: used it. Suddenly, what could have once been seen as

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Speaker 2: an embarrassment started to be publicly portrayed as something else entirely.

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Speaker 1: It was more maybe a badge of solidarity. It was

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Speaker 1: we are all in this together, or so many of

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Speaker 1: us are in this together, and those of us who

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Speaker 1: are in that position. It became something that was collective

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Speaker 1: in a way.

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Speaker 2: There it was the slim silver lining of all this

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Speaker 2: workplace blood letting. The stigma around being laid off was fading.

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Speaker 2: People weren't hiding it. They were talking about it, sharing struggles,

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Speaker 2: asking for advice and connections.

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Speaker 1: It was just kind of showing what used to be

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Speaker 1: a very very private, shameful moment and putting it out

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Speaker 1: there to say, you know, this is what happened, and

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Speaker 1: you know, implicitly it says, this isn't my fall.

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Speaker 2: The pandemic eventually ended and the economy came roaring back,

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Speaker 2: but layoffs haven't gone away. What's different now is that

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Speaker 2: layoff culture has been fundamentally changed. The stigma around layoffs

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Speaker 2: is largely gone, and laid off workers are now eagerly

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Speaker 2: bringing their stories and their frustration to social media. Workers

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Speaker 2: like Britney Peach.

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Speaker 1: Hi Brittany Hi.

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Speaker 2: You may have seen Britney's video when it went viral

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Speaker 2: in January. It starts with a caption POV You're about

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Speaker 2: to get laid.

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Speaker 4: Off, thanks for meeting with me.

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Speaker 2: In the video, Brittany is sitting at home, leaning over

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Speaker 2: her computer, listening as an HR rep for cloud Flare,

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Speaker 2: the company where she worked, tells her she's being laid off.

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Speaker 2: But instead of just listening in shock the way some

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Speaker 2: people might do, Britney starts to push back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm stay right there.

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Speaker 2: Brittany asks the HR rep some pretty direct questions, Well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, can you explain for me why Britney Peach

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Speaker 1: is getting let go? Do you guys even know? Like why?

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Speaker 3: Like who you're talking to?

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Speaker 1: Each day?

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Speaker 2: She posted the video online and it got millions of

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Speaker 2: us and thousands of comments, many cheering her on for

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Speaker 2: standing up to the man.

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Speaker 1: So am I getting let go for no reason?

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Speaker 2: Which Joe says is how a lot of these TikTok

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Speaker 2: layoff videos are getting received.

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Speaker 1: There is kind of a power that's being taken back

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Speaker 1: there in terms of you know, I'm gonna own my story.

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Speaker 4: This morning at eight am, I got a last minute

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Speaker 4: meeting invite titled business Update with my whole team, my manager,

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Speaker 4: my manager's manager, and someone from HR. So I think

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Speaker 4: we're all about to be laid off.

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Speaker 1: And this is what happened. Hello, I just got laid off.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't anything personal, they said. It feels personal, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to keep moving forward and you can follow

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Speaker 1: along on my journey and like and subscribe. Just overall

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Speaker 1: really grateful for this experience and wish you guys the best.

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Speaker 3: Thank you guys. Guess I'm a full time influencer now.

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Speaker 2: Like, subscribe and maybe hire me? What employers think of

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Speaker 2: all this after the break. So far this year, more

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Speaker 2: than eleven million people have been laid off in the US,

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Speaker 2: and the job market they're entering isn't easy. Friday's jobs

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Speaker 2: report showed the economy added just one hundred and forty

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Speaker 2: two thousand jobs in August, and recently, when the New

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Speaker 2: York Fed asked workers if they expected to be unemployed

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Speaker 2: in the next four months, more people than at any

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Speaker 2: time in the last decade said yes. So I asked

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Joe Constance how employers are viewing this new genre

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Speaker 2: of layoff video.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think talking to recruiters, my sense

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Speaker 1: is that it really depends on the nature of the

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Speaker 1: things that you post. If you are posting about the

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Speaker 1: fact that you were laid off, but you were framing

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Speaker 1: it in a way, you know, this is what happened,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking for new opportunities, kind of spinning it

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Speaker 1: in a positive way.

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Speaker 2: It could be like a cover letter itself.

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Speaker 1: It could be a cover letter. Yeah, you could use

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Speaker 1: it as an opportunity to re engage and connect with

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Speaker 1: your network and you know, just kind of showing this

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Speaker 1: is what I'm looking for.

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Speaker 2: But Joe also says there's sometimes such a thing as

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Speaker 2: too much honesty, and not all hiring managers view pass

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Speaker 2: layoffs the same way.

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Speaker 1: There are other recruiters who feel very strongly that you

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Speaker 1: should never admit that you've been laid off, that you

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Speaker 1: should come up with another story, and it should be

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm taking a career break, I'm taking a

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Speaker 1: break to travel, and just don't use the L word

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: The other thing about layoffs is that for many companies,

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Speaker 2: it's not just a way to signal fiscal prudence to investors.

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Speaker 2: It's also a way to avoid firing people for cause.

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Speaker 1: Part of the reason some companies will kind of couch

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Speaker 1: it as a layoff is because there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: more legal protection. If you fire somebody, it's easier for

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Speaker 1: them to sue for you know, if they're part of

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Speaker 1: a protected class, that sort of thing, if they feel

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Speaker 1: like they've been discriminated against.

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Speaker 2: But Joe says that there is some evidence that the

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Speaker 2: attitude towards letting go of workers for any reason is

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Speaker 2: starting to shift for companies too.

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Speaker 1: There's research that says that companies that are quick to

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Speaker 1: lay people off for financial reasons don't do as well

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Speaker 1: as other companies that wait longer and do everything that

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Speaker 1: they can to keep people because it's very expensive to

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Speaker 1: replace people, especially folks who are trained, who are good

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Speaker 1: at their jobs. So are layoffs bad for business Oftentimes yes?

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Speaker 1: Oftentimes yes. I mean there are times, of course, when

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Speaker 1: business executives have no choice. They truly don't for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: they've exhausted all options. And this is the only way

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Speaker 1: to say afloat. But I think there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases is where it's the first option in it

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Speaker 1: really shouldn't be. There are other ways to cut costs

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Speaker 1: that can be considered.

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Speaker 2: And as for Sylvia, the former YouTube employee, she says

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Speaker 2: she was lucky enough to get a good severance package,

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Speaker 2: so she was able to take her time looking for

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Speaker 2: new gigs, and as she was sending out applications, she

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Speaker 2: kept making podcast episodes.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe this marks twenty conversations with incredible people

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Speaker 3: in my life. Thank you to everyone who continues listening.

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Speaker 2: When an executive at Into It came across Sylvia's resume,

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Speaker 2: he started listening.

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Speaker 3: And so he said that at first he listened to

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Speaker 3: the first few to get to know me, but then

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Speaker 3: he enjoyed them, and then they became part of his routine.

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Speaker 3: I was concerned that it was going to be a

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Speaker 3: red flag. It ended up being a grain flag.

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Speaker 2: Sylvia went in for an interview in this past January.

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Speaker 2: She started in a new role at Into It, but

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Speaker 2: she's returning to the workforce with a slightly different mindset.

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Speaker 2: Did your layoff change the way you tie your identify

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Speaker 2: to work at all?

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Speaker 3: First starters, my mom stopped calling me Mini Google felt

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Speaker 3: they definitely have. I have, Sarah. I try to be

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Speaker 3: very purposeful to say I have other identities outside of work.

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Speaker 3: Obviously a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, and

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Speaker 3: I also have a relationship with myself right and I

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Speaker 3: now believe that by taking care of these other aspects

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Speaker 3: of my life, I will be a better employee overall.

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Speaker 3: So I have definitely.

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Speaker 2: This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Thomas lou and Jessica Beck.

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Speaker 2: It was mixed by Blake Maples. It was fact checked

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Speaker 2: by Adrian Atapia. It was edited by Stacy Vannicksmith and

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Speaker 2: Raehan harmanci. Our senior producers are Kim Gittlson and Naomi Shaven.

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Speaker 2: Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso, Nicole Beemsterbor is our

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Speaker 2: executive producer. Sat Bowman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If

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Speaker 2: you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and review

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Speaker 2: The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps

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Speaker 2: people find the show. Thanks so much for listening. We'll

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Speaker 2: be back on Monday.