1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we cut 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: through the noise to try to get to the heart 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: of the issues that matter to you. So today we're 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: tackling the immigration firestorm head on. Did you know that 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: there's an estimated fifteen point four million illegal aliens in 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: the United States? 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: So what do we do about them? 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: President trumpson pushing for self deportation. 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: It's working. 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: He's been cracking down on sanctuary cities and the stakes 11 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: really couldn't be higher. So today we're going to have 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: Mark Krekorian on the show. He's the executive director of 13 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: the Center for Immigration Studies, to unpack the latest moves 14 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: from workplace raids to travel bands and so much more. 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: So get ready to dive into the truth and to 16 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: get some answers on what we're supposed to do about 17 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: fifteen point four million illegal aliens. Stay tuned for Mark Crekorian. Well, Mark, 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: it's great to have you on the show again. Obvious 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: since the last time I've had you on, everything's changed. 20 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: President Trump won reelection and basically the border's been shut down. 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: If you kind of. 22 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Had to assess sort of like what grade would you 23 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: give the president so far in his immigration efforts. How 24 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: is the Trump administration doing so far? 25 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: I give the president an a minus on immigration, and 26 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 3: the minus is only really because there's there are things 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: that they need to get moving on, like new personnel 28 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: that have been slow to get appointed or confirmed by 29 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 3: the Senate. But what they've done so far is outstanding. 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: The first job, of course, is they have to shut 31 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: the border down, and that happened like right away. It 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: didn't take new laws, as the Biden people and the 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: Democrats in Congress had insisted. It just took a new president. 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: And it wasn't just a matter of a kind of 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 3: immediate drop because smugglers were afraid of the bad Orange Man. 36 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 3: It's persisted for months and so in fact, recently the 37 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 3: Tom Homan the Immigrations are where the borders are announced 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 3: that there was a night, an entire day where only 39 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 3: something like ninety five people attempted to cross the entire 40 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 3: two thousand mile border, and that no one, not a 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: single person, had been released by the border patrol. So 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: you know, it's not as though illegal immigration across the 43 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 3: border is now zero and never going to come back. 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: It's a challenge that's always going to remain. But boy, 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: is it under control in a way that we've never 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: seen before, not even in the sixties when the numbers 47 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 3: were a lot lower. I mean, it's really remarkable what 48 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 3: they've done at the border. The second challenge, and the 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: bigger one, is trying to unwind the Biden administration's disaster 50 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 3: on immigration, and not just the illegals who came in 51 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: under Biden, but the illegals from before as well. And 52 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: that's where there's been significant obviously opposition, both in the 53 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: courts at the local level, but you know, they're uh, 54 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 3: you know, they're they're pushing back against it. They knew 55 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: there was going to be lawfair. And actually the one 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 3: point on lawfair, I'm happy to talk about anything you want, 57 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 3: but the one thing that really struck me is the 58 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: lawfair so far has been about like individual illegal aliens 59 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: or handfuls of people. So the anti borders side is 60 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 3: spending all of this time and effort trying to keep 61 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: one you know, Maryland Man illegal alien from being deported, 62 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 3: while the administration is rushing thousands out, you know, out 63 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: the door at the same time. So I don't think 64 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 3: it's a strategy on the part of the administration, but 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: they seem to be doing a two track thing, pursuing 66 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 3: these high profile lawsuits while for individual illegal aliens while 67 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: moving people out wholesale at the same time. So it 68 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 3: seems to be working pretty well. And you know, I 69 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 3: have high hopes for the next three and a half years. 70 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: But Joe Biden told us that it would take Congress 71 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: and he couldn't do it alone. I love that line 72 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: from President Trump's joint address to Congress of like all 73 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: you needed is a new president. It is sort of 74 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: funny though, seeing them sort of lay down on the 75 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: sword for the Maryland man from El Salvador who you know, 76 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: allegedly beat his wife and allegedly was part of murdering 77 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: a rival gang mother or gang member's mother and you. 78 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: Know, allan smuggler too. 79 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: Humans, it just really seems to be the kind of 80 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: guy you'd want to get behind. You know what's interesting, too, 81 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: is this administration has really encouraged self deportation, and we're 82 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: finding out that it's working. And you know, they've done 83 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: so by sort of changing the CB one app and 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: a CB home and our cb P home or CB 85 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: home and then also offering money to try to get 86 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: people to self deport. 87 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: You know, why do you think they've chosen that option? 88 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: Just probably because it's a path of least resistance or 89 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: the messages getting out or kind of what do you 90 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: attribute that to. 91 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of illegal aliens and you know, 92 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 3: you can't take them all in the custody and remove them. 93 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 3: I mean, that's just it's a huge problem. And so 94 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 3: what you need is to is to kind of leverage 95 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: the regular enforcement that the agents are carrying out in 96 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: order to kind of you know, have a multiplier effect. 97 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 3: Because for instance, back during in the fifties, when Eisenhower 98 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: had a big illegal immigration deportation effort, they ended up 99 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 3: physically taking into custody and removing about one hundred thousand 100 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 3: illegal immigrants, but about a million people are estimated to 101 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: have left, so there was a ten to one ratio there. Likewise, 102 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 3: in after nine to eleven, there was a program called 103 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: end Seers. It's a security kind of a registration program 104 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 3: for foreigners from countries that were of concern for terrorism, 105 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 3: and Pakistanis were like the biggest number. And this program 106 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: nabbed about fifteen hundred Pakistani illegal aliens, but about fifteen 107 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 3: thousand are estimated to have high tailed it back to 108 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: Pakistan on their own self deported. 109 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: Now. 110 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: I don't think you're going to get a ten to 111 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: one ratio now necessarily, but it's free to the taxpayer 112 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 3: completely apart from this issue of you know, they're paying 113 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: these bonuses if you go home, and you know through 114 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 3: this CBP one or CBP home app. But people who 115 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: just go on their own, they sort of figure, oh 116 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: my god, I don't want to get arrested. I'm kind 117 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 3: of thinking about going home anyway. And so you know, Maria, 118 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 3: pack up the kids and we're going to head back 119 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: two steps ahead of the law. That doesn't cost us anything, 120 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: and it you know, it's a it's kind of a 121 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: it's a multiplier effect for enforcement. So it is essential 122 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: that you pursue a self deportation strategy, whether you call 123 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: it that or not. And the one of the reasons 124 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: that can work it's not as though, like I said, 125 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: it's not as though they they've thought up this idea 126 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 3: on their own. There. One of the reasons that can 127 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: work is there's always some illegal aliens leaving anyway, because 128 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 3: there's always churn in the illegal population. So the key 129 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: to attrition of the illegal population is fewer people coming 130 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 3: in and more people going out. I mean, it's pretty 131 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: you know, pretty basic arithmetic. And the way you get 132 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: more people to leave again, some people are always going 133 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 3: to be leaving. The way you get more people to 134 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: leave is you make clear that you're enforcing the law. 135 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: And a key point here is that self deportation cannot 136 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: work if it's just about arrest, if the enforcement side 137 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: of it it's just about arresting criminals. Because most illegal immigrants, 138 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: I mean, they've almost all committed some significant federal crimes, 139 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 3: but most of them are related to immigration, tax frauds, 140 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: social security fraud, ID fraud, that kind of stuff. As 141 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 3: far as violent crimes or drug dealing or what have you, 142 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: most illegal aliens don't do that stuff. They're just working 143 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 3: stiffs like anybody else. And if the enforcement is only 144 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 3: against criminals and not at work sites and what have you, 145 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: then you know an ordinary schmoe who's not raping anybody 146 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 3: and not selling drugs, we'll figure, well, he doesn't have 147 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 3: anything to worry about. That's why you have to do 148 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: both going after the criminals and going after regular illegal 149 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 3: aliens in order to get self deportation to work. 150 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick commercial break more with 151 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: Mark on the other side. If you like what you're hearing, 152 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: please share on social media or maybe send it to 153 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: a friend. You know, it was interesting because one of 154 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: your colleagues in the New York Post wrote about the 155 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: nearly million people who are self deported, and you know, 156 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: an article from the Washington Post talking about how a 157 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: million foreign born workers have exited the workforce since March. However, 158 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: also noting in the article that hourly wages have accelerated 159 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: the same time. 160 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: What message does that send you. 161 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: That despite you know, foreign born workers leaving the exit 162 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: or exiting the workforce and being told that that's going 163 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: to weaken the labor supply, but yet hourly wages have 164 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: accelerated at the same time. 165 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: Like what what? What message does that send you? What 166 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: do you draw from that? 167 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: That's not a coincidence. I mean, when the labor market tightens, 168 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 3: then wages go up. In other words, if there are 169 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 3: fewer people we didn't reason obviously, but if there are 170 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 3: if there are fewer people for looking for jobs and 171 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 3: employers have to, you know, uh sort of hustle to 172 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 3: find workers, they're going to respond in a bunch of ways. 173 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 3: One of which is they're going to offer more money. 174 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: So it's not coincidental that the forearm some signif there's 175 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 3: been significant exit of foreign born workers from the workforce 176 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: and at the same time, UH wages, especially hourly wages, 177 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 3: have gone up. Those are actually related phenomenon. That's kind 178 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 3: of the whole point, or part of the point. And 179 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: I wish the administration we're making that argument better. Maybe 180 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: that's That's part of my reason it's a and not 181 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 3: a plus, is that they have this great news that 182 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 3: their enforcement efforts are actually bearing fruit for regular workers. 183 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: In other words, it's not just the you know, rapists 184 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 3: and what have you that they're getting out, which is 185 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: obviously beneficial for everybody. We don't want those people here 186 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: at all, nobody does. But immigration enforcement is also supposed 187 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 3: to help workers, ordinary workers, especially less skilled people, and 188 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: to increase their bargaining power because there's fewer people competing 189 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: with them, and they actually have you know, they've got 190 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 3: a success they can point to. And the you know, 191 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: in that announcement about the hourly about the wages increase 192 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: in wages for hourly workers, they didn't make the connection 193 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: was from the Treasury Department. I think, and so I'm 194 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: not sure one hand knows what the other is doing, 195 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: but they've got a victory there, and they should have 196 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: been talking about it, because part of the point of 197 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 3: immigration enforcement is to increase the bargaining power of less 198 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 3: skilled workers. Because most government policies, at least in this 199 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 3: economic area, immigration and a lot of others, are going 200 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: to have one of two effects. Either they're going to 201 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: make it easier for employers to find workers or easier 202 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: for workers to find jobs, one or the other. A 203 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 3: loose labor market helps employers because it means that workers 204 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: have to hustle to find jobs. A tight labor market 205 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 3: means that workers don't have to hustle to find the 206 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: jobs as much employers have to hustle to find the workers. 207 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 3: And you know, obviously there's a lot of moving parts 208 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 3: to anything, but all of the things being equal, I 209 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: think it is. And this is a normative judgment. You 210 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,479 Speaker 3: could have a different conclusion, but I think that the 211 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 3: balance of kind of interests should be on making it 212 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 3: possible making it necessary for employers to hustle to find 213 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: workers by offering more money, different benefits, different working conditions, 214 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: whatever it is, rather than forcing workers to hustle to 215 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 3: find jobs. 216 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: You know, because obviously the whole argument from the left 217 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: and some of the right as well as well, we 218 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: need these people for you know, these jobs, whether it's 219 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: in the field or what have you. And you know, 220 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: we're not going to get Americans. 221 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 2: To fill these jobs. 222 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: You know, that's always sort of the argument for you know, 223 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: pro mass immigration, right. 224 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, it's the I even had a hashtag back 225 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 3: when they still use hashtags jaw d jobs Americans won't do. 226 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 3: And you know, there's sort of a kernel of truth there, 227 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 3: but not very much. The fact is that almost all 228 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 3: occupations that the Census Bureau tracks, because they slice and 229 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 3: dice all the jobs in the country into i don't know, 230 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: several hundred, four hundred, five hundred different occupations, and almost 231 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: all of them are majority native born, not even just 232 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: legal workers. So you include native born and legal immigrants. 233 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: The majority in almost every job category is native born. 234 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: And there's only one job category where where more than 235 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: sixty percent of the workers are immigrants. And again that's 236 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 3: not illegal, that's just any kind of immigrants, even if 237 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 3: the US citizens, and that's manicurists and whatever, you know, 238 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 3: nail people working in nail shops or whatever it. That's it. 239 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: Even in things like you know, office cleaning, janitorial work, 240 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 3: all of that stuff, the majority are native born. So 241 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: you can't say that a job where, say, even if 242 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: it's only fifty percent of the people who do it 243 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: are native born, you can't say that's a job Americans 244 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 3: won't do because half of the people doing the job 245 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 3: are Americans. The only place that argument holds any water 246 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: is in certain narrow farming occupations, like the harvest of 247 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 3: fresh fruits and vegetables, because that has become completely foreignized. 248 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: But even there, first of all, there's an unlimited guest 249 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 3: worker program, so we don't need illegal immigration to do that. 250 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: It's just that farmers need to follow the rules, and 251 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 3: there's rules about pay and housing and transportation, which many 252 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: farmers don't want to have to bother with. But the 253 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: other thing is many of those jobs shouldn't ex just 254 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: in a modern society. The United farm Workers puts out 255 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: a video around Thanksgiving. They lose all the time, but 256 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: they make a big push before Thanksgiving to say that, 257 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 3: you know, farm workers are why you have food on 258 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: your table, this kind of thing, and they show these 259 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: videos of people doing farm work, and they're hardworking people, 260 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 3: and I'm sure they're fine people doing this work. But 261 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: the one that really stuck in my mind was a 262 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 3: guy kneeling in the dirt, pulling radishes out by hand 263 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 3: and then rubber banding them in bunches and going on 264 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: to the next one. He was incredible dexterity, working really hard. 265 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: And why on earth is a modern society, you know, 266 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: have to feed itself by bringing in foreign workers to 267 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: kneel in the dirt and pull things out of the 268 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: ground with their hands. It's medievil And so you know, 269 00:16:54,520 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: mechanization can solve, if not all, almost all of these problems. 270 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 3: But what interest is there on the part of a 271 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 3: farmer to invest the money in mechanization or even a 272 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: you know, a farm equipment company from researching and building machines. 273 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: If you know you've got seventeen illegal aliens fighting for 274 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 3: each job, that's just cheaper and easier. So one of 275 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: the reasons we need enforcement is not just because you know, 276 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 3: illegality is bad, but also to spur mechanization, labor saving 277 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 3: technology and by definition, productivity increases in farming. So so no, 278 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 3: this whole job Americans won't do things a canard and 279 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: it's just a it's just an excuse. Again, you're right, 280 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: people on the left and the right, a libertarian and 281 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 3: corporate right at least, use to justify not enforcing immigration laws. 282 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: Although it is sort of interesting because you would think 283 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: that people who are so pro immigrant and pro human 284 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: rights would want more protection for those workers. 285 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 3: So well, it was like that, Yeah, it was like 286 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 3: that in the old days. Caesar Chavez, who started United 287 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 3: farm Workers and now is some kind of icon for 288 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 3: the left and for the racial chauvinists among the Hispanics, 289 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: he was a regular union guy. First of all, he 290 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 3: wasn't a one of these Larraza chauvinists. He thought that 291 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 3: was a racist. Actually, he explicitly said that this Larraza 292 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 3: thing is just the Nazi concept. He literally used that language. 293 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 3: But he also, in the economic sense, believed in limiting 294 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: access to the country through immigration enforcement in order to 295 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: improve the lot of the workers who were here. And 296 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,239 Speaker 3: you know, he used to complain the border patrol ism 297 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 3: arresting these people and I've sent them lists of where 298 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: they are, and they won't go and arrest them because 299 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: the big employers and the politicians don't want the law, 300 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 3: didn't want the law enforced. So you know, we can 301 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 3: use a lot more Caesar Javaz, real Caesar job As 302 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 3: in the fields today, not the kind of fake Caesar 303 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 3: Chavez is that the lefties are retailing now. 304 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting we've seen from President Trump recently, just 305 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: in a span of a few days, sort of this 306 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: reversal on the workplace raids, you know, particularly in agriculture 307 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: and hospitality. And on June twelfth he sort of indicated 308 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: this pause on raids like farms and hotels and restaurants, 309 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: and then by June sixteenth he reversed that guidance resuming 310 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: these enforcement at these work sites. 311 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 2: You know, what do you. 312 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: Think led to that sort of initial kind of like pause, 313 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: and then why do you think he's since reversed it, 314 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: and sort of what do you make of that whole ordeal. 315 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 3: He was There's two things. First, he was heavy lobbied 316 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 3: by business interests and specifically by the Secretary of Agriculture 317 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 3: for Rollins, who is kind of the lobbyist for the 318 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 3: egg industry in the government rather than the government's representative 319 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: to the egg industry. And you know, there's the distractions 320 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: of the la riots and the war in the Middle East. 321 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 3: And the other thing is the president's businessman, and he 322 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 3: you know, he's used seasonal workers, and he realizes that 323 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 3: it is in fact a headache sometimes for businesses to 324 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: fill a lot of these jobs. And that's that's true enough, 325 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 3: no question, it's not a reason not to do immigration enforcement, 326 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 3: but the headache can be real. And so you put 327 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 3: those things together, he was like, Okay, yeah, you know, 328 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 3: we'll go easy on some of these employers. And like 329 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 3: almost instantly, he got pushback both from his base people saying, look, 330 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 3: this is we voted to you for you to you know, 331 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 3: enforce immigration laws. What do you talk about? And from 332 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 3: within the administration. I mean, this was this just led 333 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 3: to an explosion inside the admin. And it's to their 334 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 3: credit that you didn't have a lot of people leaking 335 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 3: to the media criticizing this. They kept the fight inside, 336 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 3: which is where it belongs. But they waged it. And 337 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, if there were people threatening 338 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: to resign high profile people if he didn't go back 339 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: on it. Again, I'm not being coy here. I really 340 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: don't know, but I suspect there may have been those 341 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 3: kind of threats because this is this would have been 342 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 3: if they stuck with it and exempted all restaurants, farms, 343 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 3: meat packers, and hotels from the immigration law. That would 344 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 3: have been a torpedo below the waterline for the president's 345 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: credibility on his you know, marquee issue. So the temptation 346 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: to do this was always there, and frankly will continue, 347 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 3: I'm afraid. But the president, I guess the way to 348 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 3: put it is, he passed the test. He initially failed it, 349 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 3: but it was you know, in other words, where he 350 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 3: caved into business concerns, but that wasn't a final decision, 351 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 3: and in the end he came to the right conclusion. 352 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 3: So you know, maybe that's another reason I'd have the 353 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 3: AS for the grade rather than an eight plus. But 354 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: it's still an A because they, you know, he did 355 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 3: the right thing, and they have literally just within days 356 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 3: said no, no, everybody's you know libeled immigration enforcement. Nobody 357 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: gets a special pass or a special exemption, and that's 358 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: the way it should be. 359 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: Quick break more with Mark. 360 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because your organization, the Center for 361 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: Immigration Studies, estimates that we have about fifteen point four 362 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: million at legal aliens. I think you mentioned that before 363 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: in the conversation as well. Obviously that's a lot of people. 364 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: You know, even just that million number for self deportations 365 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: doesn't get the job done. Even the deportations that he's 366 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: trying to do, doesn't get the job done. So like, 367 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: what do you do about this massive illegal population? 368 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 3: Well, look, it's a process, it's not an event. I mean, 369 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 3: the administration has only been around for what is it 370 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 3: four months or something a five months. You know, it's 371 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 3: going to take time, and the issue is not you know, 372 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: have they solved the problem today if we could, you know, 373 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 3: if they if they've been able to engineer a million 374 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 3: self deportations, you figure over the next three and a 375 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 3: half years another I don't know, that's uh five million, 376 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 3: Maybe people leave on their own six million, and they 377 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: actually deport another couple million or three million, I don't know. 378 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: We'll see that. You're taking a huge chunk out of 379 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: this regal immigrant legal immigration problem. So I think it's 380 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 3: too much to expect that even just in one term 381 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 3: they're going to solve the whole problem overnight. They're making 382 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 3: real progress, and so they just need to keep at it. 383 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 3: You keep the enforcement of physically taking people into custody 384 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 3: and removing them. You combine that with increasing efforts to 385 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 3: spur self deportation. So there's other things they need to 386 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 3: do there. For instance, we need to have Everify mandated 387 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: for all new hires. That's an online system, free online 388 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 3: system the government runs so that when an employer hires 389 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 3: somebody and submits the regular payroll information, social security and IRS, 390 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 3: they also go to another website. It should be integrated, frankly, 391 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 3: but maybe it will be at some point. But they 392 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 3: now go to another website and you just put in 393 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: their name, social and date of birth and it tells 394 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 3: you whether they're it matches their records. Is this person 395 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 3: is this person authorized to work? It's not perfect, but 396 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 3: it works pretty well for a government program. We've been 397 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 3: using it for years. The problem is it's not mandatory. 398 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 3: Only about half of new hires go through this system, 399 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 3: and there are ways to fool it, but it's hard, 400 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 3: it's not easy to fool, and it needs to be 401 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 3: mandatory for all new hires everywhere to have any meaning 402 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 3: as far as to be able to prompt and spur 403 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 3: more self deportation. And there's a whole bunch of other 404 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 3: things they need to do. For instance, it needs to 405 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 3: be and this is a Treasury Department thing. It needs 406 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 3: to be impossible for illegal aliens to open bank accounts. 407 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 3: Under Obama, they actually explicitly made it lawful to the 408 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 3: forms of ID you have to present. They made it 409 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 3: lawful to use forms of ID that only illegal aliens 410 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 3: bothered a cat like consular ID cards from foreign governments. 411 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 3: They need to make it increasingly difficult for illegal immigrants 412 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 3: to get drivers licenses, and there's a whole bunch of 413 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 3: other areas that they need to you know, tighten up on. 414 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 3: But this is they're making real progress. This is the 415 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 3: idea that you know, it's the problem hasn't been solved yet, 416 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 3: and it's you know, there's still some illegal aliens left 417 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 3: even after four years, which there will be. It doesn't 418 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 3: mean that they're not solving the problem. I mean, and 419 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: you know, knock on wood, if there's say a JD. 420 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 3: Van's administration, they would continue it. And you know, I 421 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 3: think we've got we actually can't solve this problem. That's 422 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 3: one of the reasons you mentioned our number fifteen something million, 423 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 3: and again we acknowledge that's probably almost certainly an undercount. 424 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 3: It's probably sixteen maybe seventeen million when you add it 425 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 3: all together. Again a lot of people. But that's why 426 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 3: I think the the idea of some people sort of 427 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 3: on the restrictionist side that who scoff at that number 428 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 3: as too low, and it's like, no, there's twenty five 429 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 3: thirty million, there's a fifty million illegal eight one hundred million. 430 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 3: I mean, it's ludicrous. If there really were fifty million 431 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 3: illegal immigrants, then I'm not sure we could solve the problem. 432 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 3: I mean we might have to just throw our hands 433 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 3: up and amnesty people and start over again. The problem 434 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 3: we have is big enough, but it's not too big 435 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,959 Speaker 3: that it can't be you know, can't be solved. So 436 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 3: I actually think they're making good progress and we're going 437 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 3: in the right direction. 438 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure too. 439 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: It's frustrating because I feel like so much a public 440 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: policy is just common sense. Like even just executive orders 441 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: imposing travel bands from countries where we can't vet them 442 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: like that makes sense. Not letting people in on visas 443 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: who hate our country, that makes sense. 444 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 2: If you secure your border, you're. 445 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: Going to not have a legal immigration like that makes 446 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: it right? 447 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 2: It like so much of this is just common sense. 448 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 1: Yet you know which you know, really just indicates that 449 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: what we saw on earth the Bio administration was intentional 450 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: because it's almost too easy to solve if you really 451 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,239 Speaker 1: want to. 452 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: The intentional nature of what the Biden people did is real, 453 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: but it's not. I take issue with a lot of 454 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 3: our friends and allies who say, you know, they're importing 455 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 3: these people to import voters or to influence the census 456 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 3: count so they get more seats in the House in 457 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: twenty thirty. 458 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: Or even that. 459 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 3: Definitely, yeah, I mean those are real impact. 460 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, But my. 461 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 3: Point is I don't think that's what the immigration people 462 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 3: in the administration were actually thinking. In other words, it 463 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 3: wasn't a strategy. They do not, did not, and still 464 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 3: do not believe that immigration limits are morally defensible. They 465 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 3: think immigration law as such is Jim Crow and therefore 466 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 3: anybody who shows up at the border has to be 467 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: let in. Period. You see what I mean, in other words, 468 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 3: is an ideological concern that has the benefits that I 469 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: mentioned for them. Sure, but what drove the Biden immigration people, 470 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 3: whether it's ma Orcist or all of the you know, 471 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 3: the DHS secretary or all the others, is that they 472 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 3: do not think that the American people have the right 473 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 3: to say no to any foreigner who wants to come in. 474 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 3: And once that word got out, they all started coming in. 475 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: And before we. 476 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: Go, I think, you know, when we see sort of 477 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: the protests in LA and you listen to Mayor Karen Bass, 478 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: it seems like basically what they're saying to your point 479 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: of what you're just saying now, like surrender your country 480 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: to legal aliens. 481 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: And so I think at the heart. 482 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: Of this issue is really just sovereignty, like are we 483 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: are like are we a sovereign nation or not? 484 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: And you know, that just seems to be the crux 485 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: of the issue to me. 486 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 3: Absolutely no, I mean that's that's now the a litmus 487 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 3: test issue on the left that they reject. They reject 488 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 3: American sovereignty. I mean, it's as simple as that. They're 489 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 3: like the Libertarians who were ostensibly still on the right 490 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 3: but really are now part of the left coalition. The 491 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 3: Cato Institute people and the rest of them are because 492 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: of immigration actually and this whole issue of sovereignty and 493 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 3: self determination, they are. They're part of the left, and 494 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 3: that is the key issue. This isn't about whether how 495 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: you know, some visa program works or what's the best 496 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 3: way to promote you know, better cooperation with law enforcement 497 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 3: or whatever it is. Those are for the left and 498 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 3: the libertarians. Those are secondary issues. They reject the concept 499 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: of American sovereignty over immigration. And so anybody who gets 500 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 3: in has a right to come in and a right 501 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: to stay if they want to. We have no right, 502 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 3: literally have no right to let them leave. I mean 503 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 3: to make them leave. And so that is the key 504 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 3: issue are we do we basically is do the American 505 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 3: people have a right to make laws? Can they govern? 506 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 3: Can we govern ourselves and make laws and enforce those laws? 507 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 3: And the answer not just on immigration, but immigration is 508 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 3: where you see it most in most stark contrast, the 509 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 3: answer of those, and this is a mainstream democratic position 510 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,719 Speaker 3: now is no, American people do not have the right 511 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 3: to limit immigration, period and we're seeing everything else flows 512 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 3: from that, whether it's Los Angeles or you know, anything 513 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 3: else that's insane. 514 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: Mark Krekorian, Executive director of Center for Immigration Studies. Appreciate 515 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: your time, interesting stuff. 516 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 517 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 3: Thank you. 518 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: That was Mark Krekorian, Executive director of the Immigration Those. 519 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: Mark Krekorian, Executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, 520 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: Appreciate him for making the time to come on the show. 521 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, 522 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: but you can listen throughout the week. 523 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 2: Next time.