WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The wAve

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck and Jerry's sitting in for Dave. Let's get

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<v Speaker 1>started with the wave.

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<v Speaker 2>I am glad you did this. I was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>curious about the origins of the old wave.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I don't know what you mean. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>It's now kind of all over the world in various places,

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<v Speaker 2>But it started out as an American thing that people

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<v Speaker 2>would do in the stands at sports games, where one

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<v Speaker 2>bit at a time, and all around the whole stadium,

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<v Speaker 2>people would stand up and raise their arms up over

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<v Speaker 2>their head, and if you look at it as it

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<v Speaker 2>goes around the stadium, it looks like a wave is

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<v Speaker 2>moving across the fans.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because after they raised their arms over their heads

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<v Speaker 1>standing up, they would sit back down and the next

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<v Speaker 1>section would do it and it would just move seamlessly

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<v Speaker 1>when done correctly. For my money, it's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>best things that could ever happen to you is to

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<v Speaker 1>be in a really good wave. Oh my god, I

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<v Speaker 1>find them so thrilling. I was really surprised to find

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<v Speaker 1>that some people not only hate the wave, they're like

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<v Speaker 1>they denigrate people who like the wave or who do

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<v Speaker 1>the wave. Okay, don't get it. What do you think

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<v Speaker 1>about the wave?

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<v Speaker 2>I was afraid you're gonna ask me that I knew it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not a waiver per se. I don't bemoan it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not one of these people that's like there's a

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<v Speaker 2>game going on, blah blah blah. Okay, nothing like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I just I got to a certain point where I like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to just stand up and throw my

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<v Speaker 2>arms in the air and wave them like.

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<v Speaker 3>I just don't care.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes if I'm in the right mood and this is

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<v Speaker 2>so lazy, I won't stand up, but I'll throw my

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<v Speaker 2>arms up just to be, you know, kind of.

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<v Speaker 3>A good sport.

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<v Speaker 1>I've seen that, sure, And you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that Ruby is old enough to go to sporting events,

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<v Speaker 2>I will of course do full wave participant because that's

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<v Speaker 2>something like a kid would really enjoy. I'm not gonna

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna rain on her parade.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And now that I think about it, I might

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<v Speaker 1>like the wave so much because I haven't done it

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<v Speaker 1>since I was a kid, essentially, so they.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't do it at the Wrigley Field. We went through

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<v Speaker 2>the Cubs game together.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think there was a wave was there, No,

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't, and Chuck, I was watching videos of waves today.

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<v Speaker 1>They are a sorry shadow of their former self. If

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<v Speaker 1>you want to see a good wave, I found a

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<v Speaker 1>video called the Wave at Michigan Stadium nineteen eighty four.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a wave the way that we used to do

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<v Speaker 1>it in the eighties. So go check that video out

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<v Speaker 1>and you'll be like, Wow, that's a pretty good wave.

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<v Speaker 3>Wave Michigan Stadium, huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, nineteen eighty four. Don't forget that part. So as

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<v Speaker 1>wholesome as I think the wave is, it turns out

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<v Speaker 1>there's actually like a fair bit of controversy around it,

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<v Speaker 1>specifically around who invented the wave. And what's mind boggling

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<v Speaker 1>is there's two people who claim to have invented it,

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<v Speaker 1>and they seem to have independently come up with it

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<v Speaker 1>or debuted it within two weeks of one another.

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<v Speaker 2>In that nuts Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty crazy story,

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<v Speaker 2>and crazy being the key word here because crazy with

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<v Speaker 2>the K. George Henderson is our first entrant into the

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<v Speaker 2>wave invention sweepstakes because he was a San Jose Jose

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<v Speaker 2>State cheerleader who graduated college I guess, and this is

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<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen seventies and then was just sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a freelance cheerleader for different pro teams and was working

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<v Speaker 2>an a's game on October fifteenth, nineteen eighty one, a

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<v Speaker 2>baseball game for the Oakland Athletics playing the Yankees in Oakland,

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<v Speaker 2>And you can watch this on YouTube footage from that

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<v Speaker 2>game where Crazy George has a drum and he gets

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<v Speaker 2>fans to do a version of the wave. In this version, though,

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<v Speaker 2>it's sort of one section goes and then the next

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<v Speaker 2>section goes, whereas a true wave is just a continuous

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<v Speaker 2>sort of motion and sections be damned.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's much more fluid. But there are a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of points in that footage of that first wave in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty one, in October fifteenth, where they're going fast

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<v Speaker 1>enough that it seems like there it does look like

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<v Speaker 1>a wave for a second. But I get what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not what he was doing, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it was a version. It was a proto wave.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was a proto wave. But Crazy George Henderson says, no,

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<v Speaker 1>this was the wave. I've been working on this for years.

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<v Speaker 1>Before that game in Oakland, he used to be a

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<v Speaker 1>professional cheerleader at the Colorado Rockies NHL franchise games in

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<v Speaker 1>Denver back in the late seventies, and he started coming

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<v Speaker 1>up with the wave there, but there were so few

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<v Speaker 1>people at those games it didn't really amount to very much.

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<v Speaker 1>And also these games weren't very well covered, so he

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<v Speaker 1>never got people to do the wave in any substantial

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<v Speaker 1>way on camera. It wasn't until that Oakland A's game

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<v Speaker 1>that he was able to document it on camera, posted

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<v Speaker 1>it on the Internet and was like, ipso facto, I

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<v Speaker 1>created the wave.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>And if stop your email now, if you're thinking, Josh, Josh,

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<v Speaker 2>the Colorado Rockies are a baseball team that weren't even

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<v Speaker 2>around in the seventies, that was an NHL franchise first,

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<v Speaker 2>and they would eventually become the New Jersey Devils.

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<v Speaker 1>I had it right, You had it right.

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<v Speaker 2>The second entrant into the Wave sweepstakes is a guy

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<v Speaker 2>named Rob Weller. He's from Tacoma, Washington, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Was this is so great.

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<v Speaker 2>He was known as the yel King aka the greatest

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<v Speaker 2>cheerleader in U dub history. So he would go on

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<v Speaker 2>to host Entertainment Tonight in the early eighties. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was a big fan because I was a little ten

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<v Speaker 2>year old that loved Entertainment Tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember him?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh really? Okay? Cool?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh dude, I watched Entertainment Tonight every night. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>when it debuted. I was so excited. It's really funny

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<v Speaker 2>because it was like movie news and that's all I

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<v Speaker 2>cared about. Okay, but he called his and I'm surprised

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<v Speaker 2>this didn't Frankly, surprises didn't stick.

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<v Speaker 3>He called it the expandable cheer.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, he had like the right idea. At first, he

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<v Speaker 1>was just going the wrong way. So he did the wave.

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<v Speaker 1>He had people do the wave, but it was section

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<v Speaker 1>by section and it would go from bottom to top.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So at this one game on Halloween nineteen eighty one,

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<v Speaker 1>two weeks after that, Oakland A's game, he was having

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<v Speaker 1>people do the Expandable cheer, and at halftime the band

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<v Speaker 1>director Bill Bissell, came over. He said, he let me

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<v Speaker 1>ask you something. Have you ever thought about taking that

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<v Speaker 1>expandable wave and sending it outward rather than upward and

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<v Speaker 1>the wrong way? Rob Weller picked his jaw off the ground. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>hugged Bill Bissel tighter than he's ever hugged anybody else

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<v Speaker 1>in his life. And set about starting the wave.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, And maybe we should take a break here

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<v Speaker 2>and talk about the fight that ensued right after this. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So these two guys both lay claim to the wave.

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<v Speaker 2>They have thought about it in a very childish manner

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<v Speaker 2>over the years. I think it's fairly tongue in cheek.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gotta be, you don't think so.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. It's possible, but it's also possible that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not really all that tongue in cheek.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Well Bissell, the band director that you mentioned before that

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<v Speaker 2>expanded it outward with Weller's content, says, well, first of all,

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<v Speaker 2>that other wave, it's not a true oval. There was

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<v Speaker 2>a baseball stadium. It's a diamond, and so that doesn't count.

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<v Speaker 2>I throw water all over that argument, because you could

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<v Speaker 2>do a wave in a square room. You could do

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<v Speaker 2>it in a yeah, a literal square room, as long

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<v Speaker 2>as you kept that motion constant.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. He also pointed out the whoopoo on that. Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>His second point was that it was nothing more than

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<v Speaker 1>a stand up cheer section by section. Right, He's got

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<v Speaker 1>a point there, He definitely has a point there. He

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<v Speaker 1>goes on to say in the press as far as

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<v Speaker 1>I'm concerned, crazy George can climb a hole and sit

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<v Speaker 1>on it, which is an awful thing to say, because

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<v Speaker 1>if you've ever seen the victims of Vlodny and Paler,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not a pleasant way to go.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, he meant him being paled.

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<v Speaker 1>No, but he didn't think it through. He didn't think

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<v Speaker 1>about the consequences. Bill Bissel didn't.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>By the mid nineteen eighties, the wave had really caught

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<v Speaker 2>on the No matter who invented it, every stadium had

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<v Speaker 2>their own version. It might have a special name. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe Michigan that you talked about had what was called

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<v Speaker 2>the silent Waves.

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<v Speaker 1>Creepy.

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<v Speaker 2>Some places they would jingle their car keys stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it got really creative and the waves would would

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<v Speaker 2>go around opposite each other and.

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<v Speaker 3>Meet in the middle.

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<v Speaker 2>It's awesome, But this is about when people started saying,

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<v Speaker 2>this thing is sort of disrupting my enjoyment of the

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<v Speaker 2>game a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just real quick, can't you see somebody doing a

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<v Speaker 1>jingling car keys wave, Like, stand up and they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have any keys and they sit down and they're like,

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<v Speaker 1>I really need to get.

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<v Speaker 3>A car, yeah, or the key fob just doesn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Do the same, right, So what was this nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 1>four that it had really kind of spread in just

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<v Speaker 1>a few years. Yeah, that was in America, in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. I should say, for the rest of the world,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're talking about the wave, you might be listening

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<v Speaker 1>and being like, I think I know what they're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't call it the wave. We call it the

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<v Speaker 1>Mexican Wave. And that's true. So the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>world outside of the United States calls the wave the

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<v Speaker 1>Mexican Wave. And there's a really good reason why.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, because it started in Mexico, that's right, specifically,

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<v Speaker 2>or it was spread internationally in Mexico rather.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it started in the United States and it

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<v Speaker 1>spread like a wave down to Mexico. And Mexico hosted

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<v Speaker 1>the World Cup in nineteen eighty six, and by this time,

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<v Speaker 1>the people of Mexico had been doing the wave for years,

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<v Speaker 1>and during a game, they did the wave and the

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<v Speaker 1>world was just taken aback and fell in love with

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<v Speaker 1>the wave. And still today you can see football games,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning soccer where people are doing the wave. They love it,

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<v Speaker 1>but they call it the Mexican Wave.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you're sitting at home, thinking, well, guys, this

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<v Speaker 2>is pretty good. I know little history here, but I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you guys usually dig into the science of things, sir.

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<v Speaker 2>Surely there's been a scientific studies about the wave, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>believe it or not.

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<v Speaker 3>There have been.

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<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and two, there was some physicists from

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<v Speaker 2>the Hungarian Academy of Sciences that built computer models analyzing

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<v Speaker 2>lots and lots of waves at sporting events.

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<v Speaker 3>They actually released this.

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<v Speaker 2>In Nature, the periodical Nature very respected and NPR reported

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<v Speaker 2>on it, and they had three key parameters that they

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<v Speaker 2>kind of looked at, which was the distance between the

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<v Speaker 2>sports goers, how many neighbors that an audience member an

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<v Speaker 2>audience member, that's a weird way to say somebody at

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<v Speaker 2>a football game, but whatever, how many.

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<v Speaker 3>Neighbors that you could see.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the readiness or probability of an individual to

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<v Speaker 2>start standing up, assuming others nearby are already standing. What

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<v Speaker 2>in the world does that even mean.

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<v Speaker 1>It's saying whether the person involved as a grump or not.

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<v Speaker 1>How many grumps do you have in the stands? Essentially right.

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<v Speaker 2>Interestingly, out of all this, I think the most interesting

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<v Speaker 2>part is that they narrowed it down to like twenty

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<v Speaker 2>or thirty people is all it takes to start a wave.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not only that, they roll clockwise almost invariably, and yeah,

0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.800
<v Speaker 1>they move at a speed of about twenty seats per second,

0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.360
<v Speaker 1>these scientists figured out. But yeah, that is that's not

0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.760
<v Speaker 1>very many people to start a wave, especially if the

0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.680
<v Speaker 1>crowd's in a good mood. And that's a really important point.

0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.880
<v Speaker 1>If you start a wave at a critical moment in

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 1>a game, you're going to get shouted at, even by

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.720
<v Speaker 1>people who liked the wave, because that is the wrong

0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.000
<v Speaker 1>time to do it. There's a time for the wave

0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:24.959
<v Speaker 1>and there's a time for not the wave.

0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm just trying to picture, like, you know, bottom of

0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.119
<v Speaker 2>the nine, two outs, bases loaded, and guy's.

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Like, come on, everybody, Yeah, let's give them a wave.

0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:35.320
<v Speaker 3>It's like, yeah, you're not supposed to do it.

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Do it when it's a little boring and the crowd

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>needs you know, everyone's drinking a little bit, everyone's having

0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:40.560
<v Speaker 2>a good time.

0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Maybe they're a little bored.

0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they're up seven to nothing in a baseball game

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 2>at the home field, and so people are like, well,

0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 2>let's do something. That's a great time to start the wave.

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 2>I've never started a wave I've been a part of.

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 2>The saddest thing is when someone attempts to start the

0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:58.480
<v Speaker 2>wave and it just doesn't happen.

0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a very shame sit down, Yeah it is.

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 1>It's like being the one person to start the standing

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.800
<v Speaker 1>ovation and no one else liked the show as much

0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:07.320
<v Speaker 1>as they did.

0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.040
<v Speaker 2>The great comedian Gary Gollman talks about standing ovations and he's.

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.439
<v Speaker 3>Like, you're going to be standing in a minute to

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:14.400
<v Speaker 3>leave anyway.

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, you might as well, right, exactly. So there are

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.680
<v Speaker 1>people out there who are like, I don't like the wave.

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't like it if we're up seven to nothing,

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't like it. If it's a boring game. People

0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 1>need to be paying attention to the game, and if

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 1>you are into the wave, you're not a real sports fan.

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Some people think like that.

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Right announcers. You'll hear announcers get grumpy about it sometimes.

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, some people who don't like it say that

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 1>it detracts focus from the game. Other people are like,

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, if you do it at the wrong time,

0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.199
<v Speaker 1>you could cost the home team the game. Now, the

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 1>chances of that are pretty slim, but those things have

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 1>enough momentum that there was a website called Stopthewave dot Net,

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.880
<v Speaker 1>which is now a Facebook group and Tumblr. The Texas

0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Rangers on their scoreboard. They had a message back in

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty two that said that fans participating the wave

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.280
<v Speaker 1>risk pulled muscles and that children found doing it will

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:12.000
<v Speaker 1>be sold to the circus. And funny even Weller, Rob Weller,

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.200
<v Speaker 1>your friend from entertainment. Tonight he turned on his own creation.

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.839
<v Speaker 1>If he was actually the creator, he was going to

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.920
<v Speaker 1>start a stop the Wave movement with bumper stickers and everything,

0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 1>and then he stopped himself. He realized, like people still

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 1>like it. It brings people joy. Who am I to

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:28.800
<v Speaker 1>try to get people to stop doing it?

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 2>That's right, And he's a great man. He's no John Tesh.

0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>But I say keep the wave going, even though I'm

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 2>not the most enthusiastic waiver and stop that tomahawk chop

0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 2>Atlanta Braves and Kansas City chiefs in Florida State seminoles.

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's as pernicious as kudzu.

0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 3>Do the wave instead.

0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 1>That's it for short stuff. Everybody. Short Stuff is out.

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Stuff he should know is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 3>For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio, app,

0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.080
<v Speaker 3>Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.