1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, a young son, a brother,

2
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: a first generation Irish American great grades athlete, studying his

3
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: head off to pass the grueling CPA exam. This is

4
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:44,599
Speaker 1: every parent's dream come true. So why was this golden

5
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 1: boy Chad Emilia brutally stabbed? Dead? Stabbed over one hundred times?

6
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 1: We think one hundred and eight times, but all of

7
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 1: you legal eagles that after multiple stabbings, it's hard to

8
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,960
Speaker 1: tell how many times someone was stabbed because of overlapping,

9
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 1: But we can document one hundred and eight times, and

10
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: you may think, like many sage crime fighters do, he

11
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: stabbed one hundred and eight times? What was he doing wrong?

12
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 1: Can I tell you nothing? This truly is the golden

13
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 1: boy scrubbed in sunshine. And then we learn the woman

14
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 1: who stabs her date over one hundred times was in

15
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 1: a weed induced frenzy. Now ask yourself what could be

16
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 1: worse than losing your child. Many of you know my

17
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: fiance was murdered shortly before our wedding, and I thought

18
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 1: I knew it all about grief in mourning deep depression

19
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 1: until a few years ago when I had the twins.

20
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: And now I know that nothing could be worse than

21
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 1: losing your child except for one thing, losing your child

22
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 1: to murder and the murderer get straight probation. I Nancy Grace,

23
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

24
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,640
Speaker 1: here at Crime Stories and on Serious XM one eleven

25
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to make sense of

26
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,799
Speaker 1: what we know right now, including Becca Whitnall at Thousand Oaks, Acorn,

27
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:55,360
Speaker 1: Andy Kahn, victims' rights advocate, doctor Othan Menna, medical examiner,

28
00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:01,799
Speaker 1: Robin Draeke, former FBI behavioral expert dot Org, Chris Mahandi,

29
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 1: forensic psychologist and author, Audrey Newzigger, the Special District Attorney

30
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 1: Deputy DA on this case. But first, I'm going to

31
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,679
Speaker 1: go to a very special guest joining me. It's Sean Amelia,

32
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: Chad's father. How did an evening that started so innocently

33
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:33,600
Speaker 1: go so horribly wrong? One hundred plus stabbings on your

34
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: beautiful boy. The moment I saw him, all I could

35
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 1: think about is my big boy, John David Lynch. When

36
00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 1: did you learn about what happened? Sean?

37
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: It was the morning of May twenty eight, It was

38
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:59,360
Speaker 2: about ten fifteen am in the morning. To Sheriff's deputies

39
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 2: came in my home and they they were explaining to me. Initially,

40
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,720
Speaker 2: actually they were trying to determine if I was Chad's father,

41
00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,400
Speaker 2: and when we you know, I gave him that information

42
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 2: made Wait.

43
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,280
Speaker 1: Where were you? Were you in the kitchen having coffee?

44
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,239
Speaker 1: Were you getting ready for what was happening?

45
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 2: Actually I was coming down from a home that I

46
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 2: own about or owned four houses up the street from

47
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 2: where I live because my parents, my mother and my stepfather,

48
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 2: he had progressed into dementia. So I picked up that

49
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 2: home hoping that they would move into it. But by

50
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,279
Speaker 2: the time it was finished being renovated, he had passed,

51
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 2: so she never moved into that house.

52
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 1: So you guys all grew up as a big extended family.

53
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 1: You're all Irish, you came to the US, and your

54
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 1: son was the first generation American.

55
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct. Yes, So so the the gentleman asked me,

56
00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,000
Speaker 2: you know, he showed me a picture. Chad had a

57
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,599
Speaker 2: tattoo of what's called the Triquetra. It's a Celtic Irish

58
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 2: symbol on his forearm and it symbolizes the father's son

59
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 2: in the Holy Spirit and the unity of all things

60
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 2: in the world. And that's how They asked me to

61
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 2: identify him, and I said, yeah, that's my son's tattoo.

62
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,360
Speaker 2: And then I said, I'm extremely worried about what you're

63
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,400
Speaker 2: doing right now. What's going on?

64
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 1: And okay, wait a minute, let me understand something, mister Amelia.

65
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 1: Guys you were hearing Sean Amelia. This is Chad's father

66
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 1: and he comes up to his home and meet there's

67
00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 1: LA law enforcement and they what would you do if

68
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,159
Speaker 1: somebody says, does your son have a tattoo of the father,

69
00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,400
Speaker 1: the son and the holy ghost? I would want to

70
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 1: know what's going on? The worst would go through my mind.

71
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,120
Speaker 1: What happened?

72
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 2: Well, I, you know, gave them acknowledgment. Yes, that's that's

73
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 2: my son's tattoo. And I said, what's going on? And

74
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 2: then they asked me immediately. There's two of them. They said,

75
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,680
Speaker 2: what can you tell us about his girlfriend? And I

76
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,720
Speaker 2: looked at him and I said, he doesn't have a girlfriend.

77
00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 2: And that's when they turned and looked at each other,

78
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 2: kind of surprised, and I said, you guys are really

79
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 2: you know, you guys are really worrying me at this point.

80
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,800
Speaker 2: What is going on? And you know, Chad was he

81
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 2: was an incredibly strong young man. He was very fit,

82
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,160
Speaker 2: very tough, and the sheriff said to me, well, he's

83
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,919
Speaker 2: been stabbed. And at that moment, you know, I thought, okay,

84
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,440
Speaker 2: I need to go see him wherever he is. I

85
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,560
Speaker 2: just thought he'd be in a hospital somewhere or you know,

86
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,679
Speaker 2: he was not. You know, you know, I didn't even

87
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 2: it didn't even dawn on me occur to me that

88
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 2: what he was going to say next, because I said, well,

89
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: I want to go see him. Where is he? And

90
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 2: he said, we cannot allow you to go to this scene.

91
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 2: He's deceased. And that's when that's when I realized, you

92
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,040
Speaker 2: know that, you know, I just I just couldn't believe

93
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 2: what happened. So I literally dropped to my knees and

94
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:45,200
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe what they had told me. And at

95
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 2: that point, just by by coincidence, one of my uncles,

96
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 2: who is the matriarch of our family, he just happened

97
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 2: to pull up into my driveway, and you know, thinking

98
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 2: that he did, because you know, he kind of pulled

99
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 2: me together and then we all went into the kitchen.

100
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 2: I went into the kitchen with the two sheriffs and

101
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 2: my uncle and I had to explain to him what

102
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 2: they had just told me. He couldn't believe it. And

103
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 2: then the sheriff asked me right after that, I said, look,

104
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 2: we need to notify his mother. Do you want to

105
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,600
Speaker 2: do that or do you want us to do it?

106
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I don't want her to find

107
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 2: out the way I just found out, so I will

108
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 2: take care of it. And I called her immediately, and

109
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 2: she had an appointment that she was headed to, and

110
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,720
Speaker 2: I asked her to cancel the appointment, and I drove

111
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,839
Speaker 2: to her home, which was very close to my home,

112
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,720
Speaker 2: and I sat her down and I, you know, I

113
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 2: had to tell her. I'd say, you know, Michelle, I

114
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:57,800
Speaker 2: just got some really bad dude had Chad. You know,

115
00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 2: he's dead, and you know from that moment forward, mean,

116
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,080
Speaker 2: I just you know, she just it was like it

117
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 2: was like literally was like looking into her eye and

118
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 2: seeing something something just break in a human being. They're

119
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 2: seeing anything like before. But that's what happened. And I

120
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,320
Speaker 2: was concerned about leaving her because I had to. Obviously

121
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,200
Speaker 2: the next person I had to go drive and tell

122
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,319
Speaker 2: was my mother, and they were very close and he

123
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 2: I just you know, reached out to her sister and said,

124
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,679
Speaker 2: you need to come here. She cannot be here by herself.

125
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 2: And she has really good friends, strong friends, so they

126
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,520
Speaker 2: came and supported her, and then I left and I

127
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 2: had about an hour and forty five minute drive to

128
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:55,160
Speaker 2: get to my mom's house. And I remember, you know,

129
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 2: telling my mom to tell my mom, but you know,

130
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 2: the same thing. I sat her down and just said, mom,

131
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 2: And she knew something was wrong because I was there

132
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 2: with my uncle Nol and my uncle Christopher. I took

133
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 2: them with me, and my uncle Nole actually drove me there,

134
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 2: and you know, she goes, what's going on? And I

135
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,320
Speaker 2: just said, well, Mom, I got some really bad I said,

136
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 2: chat Is, chat is deceased, and you know, I could

137
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:38,439
Speaker 2: see that she was in dock, but she she excuse me.

138
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,800
Speaker 2: She reached out and she grabbed old knee and she

139
00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,240
Speaker 2: just looked at me and said, well, you know, Sean,

140
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,680
Speaker 2: he's in a better place than we are. And that's

141
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 2: what she said to me. So that's kind of how

142
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 2: the initial understanding of his loss went for me and

143
00:10:59,120 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 2: our family.

144
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 1: Guys, you were hearing the father of chat Amelia literally

145
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 1: scruffed in sunshine. And I'm not saying that this perfect

146
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:22,719
Speaker 1: boy life is any more or less valuable than anybody else's.

147
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 1: It just the irony, the bad taste of a kid

148
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,680
Speaker 1: growing up and doing everything right, and then out of

149
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 1: the blue, this boy stabbed over a hundred times by

150
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 1: his girlfriend. She in a weed induced frenzy. And everybody

151
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 1: across the country that's legalizing pot saying it's okay, it's fine,

152
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 1: it's not. It is not. I know I'm the voice

153
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 1: of the wilderness on this, but I've seen so many

154
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 1: victims fall prey to pot. That's not the issue today.

155
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:15,320
Speaker 1: That's a much different argument. The issue today is his

156
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 1: killer is walking free on straight probation. Time Stories with

157
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 1: Nancy Greece to Audrey Nfzigger, Venture County Senior Deputy District

158
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:49,080
Speaker 1: Attorney who prosecuted this case. She did not agree with

159
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 1: straight probation. This was not a deal. You know, you

160
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,640
Speaker 1: can either plead guilty with the plea deal that the

161
00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: state agrees with the defense and they present it to

162
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 1: the judge. You can plead blind plea where you plead

163
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 1: guilty and you just throw yourself on the judge's mercy,

164
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,680
Speaker 1: or you can go to trial. This was not an

165
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 1: agreed deal, so don't hold this against her. My question

166
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:24,520
Speaker 1: to you, Audrey, is when you hear mister Amelia speaking,

167
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, for all the years I prosecuted

168
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 1: violent crimes, I would add that pain to my own

169
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 1: heart and I carry it around to this day. Does

170
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 1: it ever become staggering to you? Because sometimes it did

171
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,079
Speaker 1: to me. I would have to pull off the road

172
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,079
Speaker 1: when I would leave the courthouse sometimes and just cry.

173
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,680
Speaker 1: Of course, I couldn't let anybody else see me cry

174
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,559
Speaker 1: because that would be weak. But when you hear mister

175
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:03,320
Speaker 1: Amelia telling his story, and you know his killer who

176
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 1: voluntarily took pot smoke pot, it got so high she

177
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 1: stabbed him. That's not in question. It's not who did it,

178
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: she did it. How does that hit you, Audrey.

179
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 3: Nthy You said it exactly right. I carry I carry this,

180
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,080
Speaker 3: the trauma, the pain. I don't know the pain that

181
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 3: Sean knows, but it deeply impacts me. And listening to him,

182
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I brought the tissue box over and it's

183
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:40,360
Speaker 3: just how can anyone not feel the humanity of losing

184
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 3: chat Amelia.

185
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 4: It's just a horrible thing.

186
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 3: And in compounding it in this case was the extraordinarily

187
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 3: graphic video that I had to watch.

188
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 4: I don't even know how many times, maybe one hundred times,

189
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 4: and it's it's just something you can never unsee and

190
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 4: it's very it's horrible, the horrible thing to experience. And

191
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,280
Speaker 4: I think as a prosecutor, you know, we harness, we

192
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 4: harness that pain and we use it to get through

193
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 4: horrible trials and to bring justice as as we can.

194
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 4: And that's what I did.

195
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: You know to Andy Kahn joining me, colleague and Fred,

196
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 1: director of Victim Services at Crime Stoppers Houston, Andy, I

197
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: know how much you research every case that you advance.

198
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 1: When I look and I know you've seen pictures of

199
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 1: my son John David. When I look at Chad, this

200
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 1: guy that smile, he's got a million dollar smile, just

201
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 1: full of life, full of happiness, it just kills me

202
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: to think what this judge has done.

203
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 5: You know, Nancy, crime victims in this case is like

204
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 5: the poster child. They are no longer victims under the

205
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 5: guise of this new criminal justice reform that we seem

206
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 5: to be operating on the defendants like this lady, they

207
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 5: are now the new victims and actual crime victims are

208
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 5: basically treated as non entities and Here's what I really

209
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 5: find fascinating. So they're claiming this cannabis induced psychosis that

210
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:28,280
Speaker 5: led her to stabbing Chad over one hundred times. The

211
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 5: lead was purchased at this local dispensary. Amazingly, you tell

212
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 5: me if I'm wrong. But that's the only case that

213
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 5: I've seen, and we're going on six years. So it's

214
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 5: not like people who purchased this type of marijuana all

215
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 5: of a sudden get this psychosis induced and they go

216
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 5: around stabbing people to death. This is a precedent setting

217
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 5: decision that's going to have far reaching consequences for future

218
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 5: case is the impact of this decision is frightening.

219
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: Joining me is Becca Whitnall, Editor one thousand Oaks Acorn

220
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 1: at Acorn Newspapers, Becca, thank you for being with us.

221
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: Who is this judge Worley? David Whorley?

222
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,240
Speaker 6: I believe, well he's a vent Terry Commy superior courting judge,

223
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 6: and I keep asking myself the same thing. I kind

224
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 6: of wonder why you even have a jury if you're

225
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 6: ruling is going to kind of almost negate what they found.

226
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 1: So, Becca Whittnall, regarding this judge, I agree with you.

227
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 1: Why bother to go through the time and expense of

228
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: having a jury when you're going to negate everything they

229
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,880
Speaker 1: do and just sentence the guy to straight probation. I've

230
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 1: seen this before in a murder. It was in the

231
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 1: Louise Woodward ou Pair murder where she murdered baby Matthew Eapan.

232
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,679
Speaker 1: The jury came back with a homicide conviction and the

233
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 1: judge sentenced her to straight probation. And they came back,

234
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,360
Speaker 1: as I recall, with either a murder of voluntary not involuntary,

235
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: and the judge just took it upon himself to give

236
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: straight probation. It has happened before, and that is why

237
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 1: I am calling for a recall. I don't want this

238
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 1: judge to just slither off the bench and enjoy retirement.

239
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 1: I want to recall effort on David Whory because what

240
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 1: he did was wrong. To you, Sean Amelia, I've looked

241
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 1: up worly. He was basically an ambulance chaser in a

242
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,120
Speaker 1: law firm and then somehow got appointed to the bench

243
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,679
Speaker 1: and then ran. What is your response to what the

244
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: judge did, Sean, Well.

245
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 2: I have to agree with you know what Becka just said.

246
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 2: I don't there are two things that happened that I

247
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 2: don't even understand why we were put through them and

248
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 2: after what he did. You know, obviously, the first is,

249
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, the good people of the County of Ventura

250
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: did their civic duty. They listened to the evidence, they

251
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 2: listened to the facts, and they came to a unanimous

252
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 2: decision in a very short period of time. And you know,

253
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,879
Speaker 2: the DA then asks for the maximum time. Then you

254
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,199
Speaker 2: have the probation officer recommending Failuy jail time. And then

255
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, all of that collective information gets

256
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 2: put in the hands of one individual where there's no

257
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: checks and balances on and at that point he can

258
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 2: do whatever he wants. So I, in my opinion, he

259
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 2: failed Chad, he failed the people of Ventura County.

260
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 1: He just he.

261
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 2: Really did not do in my opinion, he didn't do

262
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,880
Speaker 2: his job reviewing it objectively and seeing this in whom

263
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,640
Speaker 2: the fact person as an individual. He was too focused,

264
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 2: I believe, on the perpetrator of the crime as an

265
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,440
Speaker 2: individual and not on the facts of the case.

266
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 1: Two. Doctor Chris Mohandi joining US forensics psychologist, author of

267
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: Evil Thoughts Wicked Deeds. Doctor Mahondi, thank you for being

268
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: with us. I was listening to what Sean Amelia was

269
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: saying as he described being told his son had been stabbed.

270
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: His immediate reaction was much like mine was when Keith

271
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: was murdered. I thought, if I could just get to him,

272
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 1: I could fix it. I could get him to the

273
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 1: right hospital, the right doctor, we could perform the right

274
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: surgery or methods, and everything was going to be fine.

275
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: That did not happen. It's almost as if you can't

276
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,919
Speaker 1: take in what you're hearing. What is that psychological phenomena?

277
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 7: Well, I think it's just so traumatic and overwhelming to

278
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 7: be presented with the idea that somebody that you you know,

279
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 7: that you're you know, so basically attached to as your

280
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 7: own child, as as a parent. There's no way, It's unfathomable.

281
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 7: It's just something that your your mind is incapable of processing.

282
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 7: It's too much so that denial is the first thing

283
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 7: that comes up.

284
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: No, this can't be.

285
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 7: And that is actually the beginning of the grief process,

286
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 7: is that denial. But it's it's just such a powerful

287
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 7: thing because it goes to that basic, you know, attachment

288
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 7: as well as the idea that you know what your

289
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 7: your kids We're not supposed to see our kids, you know,

290
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 7: pass away and die from many cause we're supposed to

291
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 7: go first.

292
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: I think it's that the idea that your son or

293
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: your fiance has been murdered is so out of left

294
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: field that your mind tries to apply your normalcy to

295
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,479
Speaker 1: what you're hearing and somehow in your mind fix it

296
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: and make it something acceptable. I don't think your mind,

297
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not a shrink can take it in. What

298
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: exactly happened? How did the judge reads this outrageous decision

299
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: that a woman and a pot induced frenzy who stabs

300
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: her boyfriend one hundred and eight times should walk free.

301
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: What happened that night? Listen to investigative reporter Nicole part Vinnie.

302
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 8: Olivera is upstairs in his room when he hears the

303
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 8: sounds of things breaking downstairs. Taking a look down the stairs,

304
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 8: Olivera sees Omelia and Spacher's dogs together on the landing area,

305
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 8: looking scared. Heading downstairs, Olivera sees furniture toppled. The couch

306
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 8: is flipped over and covered in blood, and Omelia is

307
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 8: severely wounded. Olivera says there is a hole where his

308
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 8: heart is with blood everywhere, and o'melia says, Vinnie, please

309
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 8: help me. She stabbed me. Vinnie Olivera runs back upstairs

310
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 8: to get his phone to call.

311
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: For help to doctor Othan Minna, Ventura County Assistant Chief

312
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, who performed the autopsy on this young man,

313
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 1: Chad Amelia, Doctor Othen Minna. The chairs were turned over,

314
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: furniture was tumbled around. It was clearly violent, very violent.

315
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: He tried to protect himself. But is there any way

316
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: that someone can be saved if they've been stabbed in

317
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: the heart? Was he stabbed in the heart or did

318
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: it just look that way to the roommate.

319
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 9: Yes, he was stabbed in the heart and also the

320
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 9: lungs and liver. That's actually where most of the severe

321
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 9: injuries were located, in the chest and back along with

322
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 9: his neck.

323
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: Can anyone survive a stab to the heart, doctor.

324
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 9: Mana, Well, it depends on the severity. Since it's a

325
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 9: superficial injury and medical aid is rendered shortly after, it's

326
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 9: certainly possible, but not when there was this much blood

327
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 9: loss and multiple other sites that were injured that were

328
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 9: also bleeding.

329
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: According to the defense, the defendant in this case, a

330
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: girlfriend Brent Spacher had a quote psychotic break from reality

331
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: and that therefore her use of cannabis pot was involuntary.

332
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the law is very clear, is it not,

333
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: Audrey and f Zigger that voluntary use of drug for

334
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: alcohol is not a defense, never a defense unless you

335
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: the defendant are completely comatose. And she's not comatose because

336
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: she's throwing over sofas and coffee tables and stabbing the

337
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: victim over one hundred times. So her voluntary use of

338
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: pot is not going to be a defense.

339
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: That's correct. That's exactly what the laws says, and that's

340
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 3: what the jury found in this case.

341
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, doctor Mahondi joining us. Did

342
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: you administer a psychological test too Spachure before trial? Did

343
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: you learn anything about the amount of pots she ingested?

344
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 7: Well, the psychological test, like the MMPI two which is

345
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 7: what I used, the Multi Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory two,

346
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 7: does not have anything to do with determining how much

347
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 7: cannabis she ingested. That's derived from the toxicology that was

348
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 7: from the blood drop, the hospital and so forth. So

349
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 7: that testing posts, you know, event that I did from

350
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 7: a psychological standpoint is not what's going to result in

351
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 7: the you know, cannabis induce psychost That's not what's going

352
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 7: to result in the cannabis induce psychosis diagnosis. That's derived

353
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 7: from the fact that there was nothing else in her

354
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 7: that she did test positive for THHC, and that she

355
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 7: has no other history, no other agents that could have

356
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 7: caused it, and that it remitted. That means the symptoms

357
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 7: went away as soon as she came down from the

358
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 7: intoxicating properties of it.

359
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: Okay, so I understand. So her state of mind was

360
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: completely due to smoking a bong. I don't get it,

361
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: Sean Amelia. This is Chad's dad. When someone is drunk

362
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: out of their gourd and they have a car crash

363
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: and kill a young man, they go down for vehicular homicide, right,

364
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: So why is this any different? She was sucking on

365
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: a bong and then went into a pot frenzy and

366
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: murdered Chad. How is that different?

367
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 6: I don't.

368
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: I don't think it is different. And not being an attorney,

369
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: it's very hard for people that just go to work

370
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: every day to take care of their families to understand

371
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 2: how you stab somebody one hundred and eight times and

372
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 2: you you don't go to prison. There's a I think

373
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: there's a case pending right now. It's going to be

374
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 2: very interesting to hear what the outcome is. It's the

375
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: Rebecca Grossman case. I understand she ran over two people,

376
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 2: and it'll be interesting to see if she's treated differently.

377
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious why the judge thought the

378
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: pot is any different, because isn't it true? Becco Whitnall

379
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: joining us from Thousand Oaks Acorn at the time, Spacher

380
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: stated she had taken one puff of a bog but

381
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: did not want to smoke anymore. Then she blames the victim,

382
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: claiming he urged her to smoke more and that what

383
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: two or three more puffs made her go into a frenzy.

384
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't believe that for one minute. She's lying.

385
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 6: Apparently she had taken the first hit and told ched

386
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 6: she wasn't feeling anything, so he says, oh, let me

387
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 6: reload it, and and she takes the second hit in

388
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 6: that when all hell breaks though.

389
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: I find it really hard to believe that she was

390
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: in a frenzy after two puffs on a bong. But

391
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: that said, what else do we know happened that evening?

392
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 10: Nanny, Olivera runs back down the stairs, dialing nine to

393
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 10: one one on his cell phone. Olivera sees bren Spager's

394
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 10: attack on Chad o'melia hasn't ended. She still him as

395
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 10: he's fallen to the ground. Olivera is now outside the condo,

396
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 10: screaming for help, crying as he tries to explain to

397
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 10: nine to one one what is happening, but says he's

398
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 10: in some type of shock and remembers little of what

399
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 10: happens next. He does remember police arriving on the scene

400
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 10: and hearing what he thought were stun guns going off

401
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 10: a few times. The voices that bren Spacher and only

402
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 10: Brin Spachrier is hearing, are telling her she has to

403
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 10: keep fighting, she has to keep doing what she's doing.

404
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 10: What she is doing is stabbing chat o'melia at least

405
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 10: one hundred and eight times, as well as her dog

406
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 10: and herself. According to Sergeant Stephen Jenkins. Spacher says the

407
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 10: more violent she is, the more she feels like she

408
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 10: is coming back to life.

409
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: Robin Drake joining me behavior expert, former FBI Special Agent

410
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: and chief of FBI Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, author

411
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: of Sizing People Up a veteran FBI Agents Manual for

412
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: Behavior prediction. Let me throw a legal phrase on you, Latin.

413
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: She's thing lying her story. It's all over the place.

414
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: First she has one suck on a bong, and then

415
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to smoke anymore. Next thing, I know,

416
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: she's gone into a pot frenzy. Now she's saying she

417
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: heard voices.

418
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 11: Whatsology.

419
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 12: That's about the level of my phraseology to Nancy. This

420
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 12: case is so complex. Yeah, I know the case is

421
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 12: so complex, and I've taken the anes and it's confusing.

422
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 13: But when so confusing, I'm looking at behavior arcs all

423
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 13: over the place on this one. I think that's what

424
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 13: the judges too, are trying to figure out the judge's

425
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 13: sentencing because what's his behavior arc that made him get

426
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 13: such a light sentence to encountermine basically what the jury said,

427
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 13: And then what's her behavior arc because.

428
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: This is her behavior was complete deviation, which.

429
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 11: Then makes a lot of incongruencies and makes it very

430
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 11: unbelievable for people. But the bottom line here, this whole

431
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 11: thing is e roaded trust and confidence in the legal

432
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 11: system because there's such an in congruins between the sentenceing

433
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 11: and between what the jury said, and there's victims everywhere,

434
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 11: and like has been said earlier, they're they're making the

435
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 11: perpetrator of the crime the victim. And that's the new

436
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 11: trend that has become scary in the whole system.

437
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see that too, Andy, conn she's somehow trying

438
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: to blame him for what she did. And did you

439
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: hear that. After the roommate sees what's happening, he thinks

440
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: it's over, he wants to call nine one one, and

441
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: the victim check is still saying help me, he's still alive.

442
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: He comes back the roommate and she's attacking him again. Andy.

443
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 5: You know, Nancy, I've actually lost track of how many people,

444
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 5: especially victims of violent crime, have been victimized under this

445
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 5: new realm of criminal justice reform and the rights that

446
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: you and I and other victim advocate trailblazers have now

447
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 5: been essentially steamrolled and they're pushed under the carpet. And

448
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 5: then name a criminal justice reform. I wish I could

449
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 5: say this is an anomaly, but it's not. It's part

450
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 5: of a pattern. Listen to the judge's own statement where

451
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 5: he said, through no fault of her own, that being

452
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 5: the offender. The defendant was out of touch with.

453
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: Reality as through no fault of her own.

454
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 5: That's not true, I agree, But this is what the

455
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 5: judge is basing his decision on. This is his perspective,

456
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 5: and that's what we're seeing all over the country right now.

457
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: You have statements saying.

458
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 5: That, oh gosh, the poor little defendant, she's never going

459
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 5: to lead a normal life.

460
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: She has now wait for this.

461
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 5: Now her medical license and ability to help deaf people

462
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 5: is at risk. And basically Chad is a non entity.

463
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 5: He doesn't exist anymore. And that's why I firmly believed

464
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 5: in cases like this, and Dad listened to me, and

465
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 5: I'll be more than happy to help you.

466
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: Your son has.

467
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 5: To be a catalyst for change. This has got to

468
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 5: stop where basically victims are now being treated as non

469
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 5: entities and defendants are now being treated as a new

470
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 5: victim in this new era of criminal justice reform.

471
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: So she's upset that her training as an audiologist to

472
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: help deaf people could be revoked or impaired because she's

473
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: a murderer. That's what she's worried about. Did I get

474
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: that right shot?

475
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 5: That's correct?

476
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Okay, what else do we know happened that day. Listen

477
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: to Sidney Summer Crime online.

478
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 14: When police arrived, they find Shad o'melia dead from over

479
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 14: one hundred stab wounds in Brent Speecher crying and screaming

480
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 14: hysterically while still holding the bloody knife in her hands.

481
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 14: The Ventura County Star reports Officers find Speecher in a

482
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 14: pool of blood holding a knife, and as officers try

483
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 14: to disarm her, officers use a teaser in several baton

484
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 14: blows before before they were able to finally disarm Speecher,

485
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 14: along serrated bread knife is taken from her hands. Chattle

486
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 14: Melia is dead at the scene.

487
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: Baton blows and a taser to calm this woman down,

488
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: and she's worried about her license? Is that correct? Becca

489
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: Whitnall after Crouch.

490
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 6: I think it was nine blows with the baton before

491
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 6: they could get her to let go of the knife

492
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 6: that she was stabbing herself with.

493
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you say she was stabbing herself. Wait

494
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: a minute. I see the pictures. I see them. Those

495
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: are completely superficial. She doesn't even have a stitch.

496
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 6: Nothing I have to say in court, it seems the

497
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 6: parties agreed that had the police, not or the sheriff's

498
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 6: officers not gotten that knife out of her hands, that

499
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 6: she likely would have suffered much more. She did have

500
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 6: to go to the hospital.

501
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: Did she get stitches?

502
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 6: I would know that she got stitches. I know she

503
00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 6: was in the hospital for.

504
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. Looking right at her, I'm

505
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: looking at the scratches. Scratches. No, she stabbed this boy

506
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: to death and she is walking free. Now brace yourselves,

507
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: listen to this.

508
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 8: It doesn't take the jury very long to find Brin

509
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 8: Spacher guilty of killing Chad O'melia. The couple had only

510
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 8: dated for a couple weeks when Spaecher attacks Omelia after

511
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 8: she takes two hits from his bong. There is blood

512
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 8: evidence I witness from the roommate, and when police arrive

513
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 8: on the scene, she was holding the bloody knife in

514
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 8: her hand. But she wasn't convicted of first degree murder

515
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 8: like she was originally charged. Spacher is convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

516
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: Question to you, Audrey V. Zigger, Ventira County Senior Deputy

517
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: District Attorney who worked this case, why was the Why

518
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: were the charges reduced? Because the jury never even had

519
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: a chance to look at murder.

520
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 4: Did they that's correct. I'm the second attorney on the case.

521
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 3: And when we got when I got this case, how

522
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 3: the defense finally produced to us their defense strategy of

523
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 3: marijuana and do psychosis. And so we then hired doctor

524
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 3: Mahondi because he is an expert in this area and

525
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: in friends of psychology in general. And he did the

526
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 3: test and he evaluated to her. He went through all

527
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 3: of the evidence, including the video evidence. And it's very hard.

528
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: I think it's very.

529
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 3: Hard for people to grapple with the idea that that

530
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 3: is what happened here.

531
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 4: But I will tell you this, Nancy Seein is believing.

532
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: You're saying it would be hard for people to believe

533
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: she was in a psychosis. Yes, it's okay. Didn't I

534
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: ask you a question? Can I ask you a question?

535
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: She's in psychosis because of what?

536
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 6: Because she voluntarily sucked that bomb just.

537
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: Like that, that's right. She is and psychosis because she

538
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: sucked a bomb, that's right, and stabbed her boyfriend dead.

539
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you this woman did not

540
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 1: just descend down from heaven. The roommates were very suspicious

541
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: of her and thought that the victim in this case

542
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: Chad Omelia was moving way too fast with her. Take

543
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut two from Nicole Parton Chad.

544
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 8: O'melia lives in a condo in Thousand Oaks with two

545
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 8: roommates and his dog. O'melia is working at an accounting

546
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 8: firm while studying to be a certified public accountant. O'melia

547
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 8: meets audiologist Brin Spacher at a dog park and the

548
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 8: two strike up a friendship that quickly moves to something more,

549
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 8: even though the two have only dated a few weeks.

550
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 8: One of o'melia's roommates, Vinnie Olivera, tells The Acorn that

551
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 8: Chad was definitely smitten with Brin Spacher. He says, Omelia

552
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 8: is talking about Spacher all the time and at one

553
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 8: point suggests they might be moving too fast.

554
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: So the roommates realized this was moving way too fast.

555
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: Robin Drie, you're the behavior expert. When all your friends

556
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: can see something is wrong and you're the only one

557
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: that can't see it, particularly when you think you're in love.

558
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: What is that?

559
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's lack of loving critics in your life and

560
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 15: your ability to listen to him. You're giving yourself your

561
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 15: own confirmation bias. Of what you're seeking, and that's exactly

562
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 15: what's going on here, and he confirmed his own bias

563
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 15: for her and it led to his death.

564
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: Unlike unfortunately to you, Sean, this is Chad's dad. Had

565
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: he ever had a serious girlfriend before?

566
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 9: Oh?

567
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the first thing the Sheriff's department app

568
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: myself and his mother, Michelle for was a list of

569
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: young ladies that he had dated, and we produced that

570
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: list and they interviewed all and you know, they all

571
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: you said, he was a gentleman, and you know he

572
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: was raised that way, and so is his brother, and

573
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 2: so was I.

574
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: That's curious, Sean, Amelia. It sounds to me like what

575
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: they were trying to do the defense was trying to

576
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: raise a self defense strategy, but that was completely impossible.

577
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: You know. Back to you, doctor Othen men of inter

578
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: County Assistant Chief Medical Examiner, have you ever handled a

579
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: case where the victim has been stabbed this many times?

580
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 9: Yes, a few times, handful times. There have been this

581
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 9: many times in the dovens probably not this many, but

582
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 9: at least in the seventies to eighties.

583
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: So then not this many? Is it true, doctor Menna,

584
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: that when you have so many stab wounds. It's hard

585
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: to determine the exact number as the stab wounds begin

586
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: to overlap, and you can't tell if it's one, two,

587
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: or three stab wounds in the same in the same cut.

588
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 15: Right.

589
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 9: That can happen, especially in terms of internal injuries. They

590
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 9: start kind of intersecting each other and crossing each other's patterns.

591
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, this is not the

592
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: first time a judge has completely distorted and thwarted the

593
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: law in this jurisdiction. Does the name of Sean Shirk

594
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 1: ring a bell? Take a listen to our cut eighteen.

595
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 10: Sam Shirk has five sons, and oftentimes his sons don't

596
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 10: get along with his living girlfriend, fifty nine year old

597
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 10: Margaret Dahl. Sam Shirk's son Sean, has been staying with

598
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 10: his dad and Margaret Dahl, but when Dahl's elderly mother

599
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 10: is coming to stay for a visit, Sean has to

600
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 10: move out. Around midnight. On August twenty fourth, a few

601
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 10: weeks after being four out of the home he's been

602
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 10: living in, Shawn Shirk, extremely intoxicated, breaks a back sliding

603
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 10: glass door, sneaks into the house, violently attacks Margaret Dahl,

604
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 10: and her mother, Phyllis Porter. The next morning, when Shirk's

605
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 10: brother goes to the home, he discovers the shattered glass

606
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 10: door and the women inside.

607
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: Two women dead. Now take a listen to cut twenty sewn.

608
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 10: Shirk's defense attorney begins working to have the double homicide

609
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 10: charges reduced to involuntary manslaughter. At hearings over a four

610
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 10: year period of time, experts testify about Shirk being the

611
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 10: victim of abuse as a child and suffering PTSD. But

612
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 10: the biggest thing the defense has proven Sean Shirk was

613
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 10: so intoxicated the Knight of the murders that he was

614
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 10: not in control of his own actions. The prosecutors go

615
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 10: along with the defense, and now Shirk's attorney argue that

616
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 10: Shirk was drunk and in the midst of a bout

617
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 10: with PTSD when he fatally stabbed Margaret Dahl and her

618
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 10: mother Phyllis Porter. The jury find Shirk guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

619
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: Once again, in the same jurisdiction, the defendant commits murder

620
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: and walks free even when a jury comes back with

621
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: a conviction on involuntary manslaughter, but still the judge sentences

622
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: in a manner that the defendant walks free. In this case,

623
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: I want you to hear what the defendant begins saying

624
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,479
Speaker 1: what she realizes she's getting charged. Take a listen to

625
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: investigator reporter Sydney Summer.

626
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 14: According to Speecher, she tells investigators that she begins hearing

627
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 14: a sinister like voice in her head before stabbing Omelia

628
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 14: to death a little after midnight. The VC Star points

629
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 14: out that under California law, a person is seen as

630
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 14: responsible for their actions when impaired by drugs or alcohol

631
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 14: unless they're intoxication is involuntary.

632
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 10: Spacher's defense attorney claims that their client was involuntarily intoxicated

633
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 10: and that o'melia had allegedly bullied and intimidated her into

634
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 10: smoking the last bit of marijuana.

635
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: Now the defense Now they are arguing that the pot

636
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: Spacher used was completely different from all the other pot

637
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: in the world. Again total bs take a listening our

638
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: twenty three Dave Matt Crime on the R.

639
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 10: Lawyers are now claiming that the marijuana she consumed was

640
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 10: a strain of the drug with a THHD level of

641
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 10: more than thirty percent, significantly higher than the average dose.

642
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 10: Lawyers claim that Spacher was not a regular smoker of marijuana,

643
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 10: but the strain O'melia had her smoke had a warning

644
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 10: label indicating it was for high tolerance users only, since

645
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 10: its THHD content was above the average level of between

646
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 10: eighteen and twenty four percent. Spaecher's attorneys claim the strain

647
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 10: Brent Spacher consumed was a strain with thirty one point

648
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 10: eight percent THHC. Prosecutor Audrey Nauzinger told the jury there's

649
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 10: no evidence Omelia put anything other than regular old marijuana

650
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 10: in the bong he prepared for Spature that night.

651
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: The argument to the jury by the defense is that

652
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: this was some kind of unique, superpotent pot. True, the

653
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: pot was analyzed. What was left at the apartment to

654
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: Sean Amelia, this is Chad, Amelia's dad. Chad was stabbed

655
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: dead by a weed crazed girlfriend. You believe the judge

656
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: favored white women. Why do you say that, Well, earlier.

657
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: On in the case, when the charges were being charging,

658
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: document was being changed and the charges were being changed

659
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: from murder to involuntary manslaughter, I addressed the court, and

660
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: at that time, when I addressed the court, the judge

661
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: actually started to when he was talking and speaking back

662
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: to me, he was taking a position, and he was

663
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: actually instead of just listening to my comments, he was

664
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 2: defending her. He was defending her actions. And at one point,

665
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 2: I mean the trand I have the copy of transcript.

666
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 2: At one point, you know, that's when he sort of

667
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: emphasized as well, it's very it's a very tough thing

668
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: for somebody to lose their medical license. And I responded,

669
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: I said, well, my son lost his life. How can

670
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 2: you compare, you know, her degree to my son's life.

671
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: I was insulted by the remark, but I want to

672
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 2: get back to what you guys. This has been bothering

673
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: me for a long long time. Her attorneys keep even now,

674
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: they're still out there doing the victim blaming thing, and

675
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 2: I mean they're claiming that this marijuana was something that

676
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,959
Speaker 2: it was not. The marijuana was tested, and I don't

677
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: smoke marijuana. I don't use marijuana, so I had to

678
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: do a little homework on this myself. So my understanding

679
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: from what I can gather in the research I've done,

680
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: that high potency marijuana is anything over twenty percent THC

681
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: content or ten micrograms per dose. This marijuana was tested

682
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: several different times, and the lab reports, and if I'm wrong,

683
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 2: tell me I'm wrong. But if the lab reports show

684
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 2: it was between twelve percent and sixteen percent, that is it.

685
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: So this was no special strain. And the container that

686
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: it came in had no warning label on it. And

687
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, I want to be told I'm wrong.

688
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: But I saw that in the evidence photos and there

689
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 2: was no warning label on it. So I mean, none

690
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: of that what they say makes any sense to me.

691
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: From the beginning, it was blamed the victim, attack the witnesses,

692
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 2: badger the witnesses, and then in the end, in Robert

693
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: Schwartz's closing argument, and I think this will really put

694
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: the jury off, he actually started to attack Audrey. I

695
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: mean he was attacking the prosecutor, who had nothing to

696
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: do with this other than for presenting the evidence and

697
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: the facts. So I'm disgusted in those two individuals as

698
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: human beings.

699
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: I'm also discussed it with a judge for allowing it.

700
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,720
Speaker 1: And you are allowed to argue in a closing statement,

701
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 1: that's what it's all about, closing arguments, but you are

702
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: not allowed to spout incorrect facts, facts that are not

703
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: in evidence, which is what he did, and attacking the prosecutor.

704
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: That's to be disallowed. But you know, and we keep

705
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: referring to her as a doctor. She's not a doctor.

706
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: She has a doctorate in audiology. She is not a

707
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:41,479
Speaker 1: medical doctor. And her whining about how murdering your son

708
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: is going to affect her future, I don't quite get that.

709
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: And again, I understand where you're coming from. I'm not

710
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: as angry about the BS claim that there's a special

711
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: poete in marijuana. I'm angry that this woman can stab

712
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: a defenseless guy. He didn't have a knife, he didn't

713
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: have a gun, who's sitting on the sofa over one

714
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: hundred times and can walk free no jail time, based

715
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: on a quack theory that she made up, claiming she

716
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: was hearing voices that told her the more she stabbed him,

717
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: the more she would live. I think I've got that right.

718
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: If I'm wrong, somebody jump in and tell me. But Sean,

719
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: when you heard the sentence, what went through your mind?

720
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: Well? I felt immediately that the system had failed Chad

721
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 2: first of all, and that I could not, for the

722
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 2: life of me, understand why we had to go through

723
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: five and a half years of going back and forth

724
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 2: to courtrooms and just hearing her attorneys constantly as for

725
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 2: extensions and then being granted, and then I just felt

726
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: that there's absolutely no justice in the system and that

727
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 2: the system is broken at this point.

728
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: Do you believe that she got a light sentence because

729
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 1: of her gender and her education, that somehow a white

730
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: woman is going to be believed in court when a minority,

731
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: a black male would not be believed in court. That's

732
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: two tiers of justice. That's not what our founding fathers

733
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: had in mind. That is not what the constitution says.

734
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: It's called equal protection under the law. Lady justice is

735
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: blind for a reason. She's not supposed to get a

736
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: break because she's a more affluent, educated white female. That's

737
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 1: not okay.

738
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 2: I agree with you, And to answer your question, I

739
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: absolutely feel that way. And I said earlier in my comments,

740
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: I didn't. He didn't separate himself from seeing her as

741
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: you described, and he just he just saw her that

742
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: way and said, you know, this isn't the type of

743
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 2: person that I should put in prison. For some reason

744
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 2: that must have went through his head. But her brother

745
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: when he got up to give his remarks, and I

746
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: was really angry about this. It was very difficult at

747
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: times for me not to stand up and say things

748
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: in that courtroom because we went through this exercise of

749
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 2: you know, giving the victims impact statements, which Judge Morley

750
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: didn't even consider. He had written his remarks prior to

751
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: and read from them on his sentencing decision. So we

752
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 2: shouldn't have been put through that. But her brother gets

753
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 2: up there and says, you know, she's not the type

754
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 2: of person that should go to prison. And I thought

755
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 2: to myself at that moment, do I stand up and

756
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 2: say something here or do I sit down?

757
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: And I yeah, like like Chad, like in this case,

758
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: Chad's night. The first kind of person that should be

759
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: dead and buried.

760
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 2: The people that are supposed to go to prison are

761
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: people that break the law and don't adhere to the

762
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: laws of the land. There's no there is no like

763
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: demographic or there is no certain type of person that

764
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 2: should or should not go to prison others than someone

765
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: that doesn't follow the law.

766
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. I I'm just so distraught about how

767
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: this sentencing went down and how this judge Worley contorted

768
00:51:52,320 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: the law. Is it true, Sean that Chad's mother, Grief Fricken,

769
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: died during the trial.

770
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, about a year and a half after we lost Chad,

771
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: she had type two diabetes and she just kind of

772
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 2: got depressed and he stopped taking care of herself and

773
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 2: she was just isolated herself. And you know, it's hard

774
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: you lose a child and you think to yourself, is

775
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: it okay for me to be happy? And one day,

776
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 2: is it okay for me to smile? Is it okay

777
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: for me to be happy with my other son?

778
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 7: You know?

779
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: And all those you know, like it's a feeling of

780
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: guilt if I'm with my other son. And it was

781
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,439
Speaker 2: the same for Michelle, and it was worse for her,

782
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: and she just declined. And I got a call on

783
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: I believe it was March seventeenth, at about seven point

784
00:52:54,200 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 2: thirty at night from her good friend Lacretia Musman, and

785
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: she said, you need to get to the hospital right away.

786
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 2: And I said why and she said, Michelle's not doing well.

787
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: And when I got to the emergency department, I knew

788
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 2: something really bad had happened because her sister was there,

789
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: Macrecia was there, a few of her other friends were there,

790
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: and I asked, what's going on? And then they just

791
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: directed me into a room and she was laying on

792
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: a table pretty much. She was already she was on

793
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: life support and she was already gone. She just couldn't

794
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: handle it. And it's also hard for my younger son, Shane,

795
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 2: because he feels in ways that you know, Michelle felt

796
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 2: so bad about what occurred, but he wishes that, you know,

797
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 2: she would have focused more kind of on what we

798
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 2: still have going forward, but she was unable to do that.

799
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: She was just so focused on the loss of Chad

800
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 2: that it just took her down.

801
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: Sewn Amelia, I don't know if you knew this or not,

802
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: but as the killer the girlfriend, bren Spacher was walking

803
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: out of court, you know what she said, right she

804
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: started bitching that she could not believe the judge had

805
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: sentenced her to probation in community service. She was actually

806
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: complaining on her way out of the courtroom. She should

807
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: have been lying prostrate in the floor, thanking this judge

808
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: for completely ignoring his duty, but instead she was whining

809
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: and complaining, I can't believe I got to do community service?

810
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: Did you know that?

811
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: Actually I was unaware of that, but I would say

812
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: given some of the other evidence that was presented that

813
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: I don't think she thought was gonna be presented. It

814
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 2: kind of doesn't surprise me. She portrays herself as one

815
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 2: thing and then this is who she really is. This

816
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 2: is who this person is. And this is why when

817
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 2: we saw the text messages that were presented during the case,

818
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, we realized that, you know, she's really not

819
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: presenting herself truthfully. And I can't believe that she did

820
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 2: say that because she is lucky that she hasn't been

821
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 2: incarcerated for murder.

822
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: Can I ask you what did the text say?

823
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: The texts were she made this claim that she was

824
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 2: a naive marijuana user, and that the text before these

825
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 2: were texts before she had met Chad, and the texts

826
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: were illustrating that, you know, she was talking to her

827
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 2: friends about marijuana use and about edibles and about how

828
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: you can put oil on ice cream and get high

829
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: from the marijuana oil.

830
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 1: So she's a killer and a liar.

831
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 8: You know.

832
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 2: I think that I don't think she faces the reality

833
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 2: of what she's done. I think that she she believes that,

834
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 2: for some reason, that she shouldn't be held accountable for

835
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: any of this.

836
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: It's it hurts so badly to know that the judge

837
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: discounted everything you and your family have been through and

838
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: sentenced this killer to straight probation. If you want your

839
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: voice to be heard, contact Governor Gavin Newsom. He needs

840
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: to hear this. Gavin dot Newsom at gov dot c

841
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: A dot gov. Repeat Gavin dot Newsom at gov, dot

842
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: c A gov. His number is nine one four four

843
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 1: four five two eight four one. Make your voice be heard.

844
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: This is not justice and may Chad Omelia and his

845
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: mother find peace. Goodbye, friend,