Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, he's
Speaker 1: the director of the Amazon Prime documentary Blockchain City, also
Speaker 1: the upcoming film Bitcoin Dilemma. Also an author of several books.
Speaker 1: It's Ian Khan, technology futurist, documentary and author joining us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Toronto. Ian, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us on Bloomberg Business Week. How you doing, bo Well, Hey,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me and today I'm actually in Princeton.
Speaker 1: Oh you're close by. Great to hear. Um. Well, next
Speaker 1: time we're gonna have to get you in the studio
Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg Headquarters. Ian, I wanted to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about sort of start at the top here
Speaker 1: because we're lucky we have quite a few minutes with
Speaker 1: you today. Um, explain blockchain and the promise that you
Speaker 1: think it offers. Still, blockchain, I I think is the
Speaker 1: most confused technology. But really if for me, what blockchain
Speaker 1: significant signifies is piece of mind. That's how I equate
Speaker 1: that technology to a result, piece of mind because it
Speaker 1: takes care of trust issues, it takes care of packing,
Speaker 1: it takes care of data protection takes off a lot
Speaker 1: of things that traditionally we have been unable to do
Speaker 1: with databases and computer technologies that we've had. And that's
Speaker 1: what blockchain does in a very complicated way. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: being defined as a ledger in the sky, and it's
Speaker 1: an imputable ledger of records. But but hey, I I
Speaker 1: love the simplified definition, which is peace of mind technology,
Speaker 1: something that creates trust and enables trust. Give me a
Speaker 1: more tangible example than that, something that you think has
Speaker 1: been improved by blockchain technology or or will will very
Speaker 1: soon be improved by the blockchain. Of course, there's many,
Speaker 1: many different use cases of blockchain. I love the ones
Speaker 1: that uh that are happening in the food industry. Australians
Speaker 1: be exports are about the fake Australian beef exports counterfeit.
Speaker 1: Australian beef exports are about two billion dollar industry and uh,
Speaker 1: these foods we don't know what the origin is, but
Speaker 1: their scamped is Australian beef. Uh. There's a company, I believe,
Speaker 1: beef Chain, that's trying to solve this problem by certifying
Speaker 1: beef that originates from Australia. It's stamped at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the process of export, and you can scan the
Speaker 1: package at the grocery store and and and see the
Speaker 1: whole journey that this packet of beef has taken. The
Speaker 1: examples such as Walnut is doing something with with produced
Speaker 1: tracking UH and UH lettuce tracking, and it's got uses
Speaker 1: when you're tracking the spread of diseases like feminela or
Speaker 1: any other contamination of foods. There's examples from the logistics
Speaker 1: industry where transportation off certain types of equipment or goods
Speaker 1: or vaccine as an example, have to be done under
Speaker 1: controlled temperature, under controlled conditions. And in a traditional industry,
Speaker 1: traditional refrigeration industry, if the power goes out on one
Speaker 1: of these units, it's kind of hard to figure out
Speaker 1: what has happened. But with blockchain enables container ships that
Speaker 1: are temperature controlled, you can verify that information really quick
Speaker 1: and figure out that there's something wrong wrong. The reason
Speaker 1: why we're able to do this is the god because
Speaker 1: you can't manipulate a blockchain database. You're unable to UH
Speaker 1: insert records in it or or modify it in any
Speaker 1: way that is not authorized. So once let's use this
Speaker 1: beef example from Australia that you talked about. So once
Speaker 1: it's been been and I don't want to say stamped
Speaker 1: on the blockchain, but how how is how is it
Speaker 1: associated with the blockchain? Like what is the physical thing
Speaker 1: that becomes a part of this beef on the package
Speaker 1: that that puts it on the blockchain. So blockchain is
Speaker 1: essentially a database and everyday people you need, the industry,
Speaker 1: the farmer are never going to touch blockchain as such,
Speaker 1: but it powers the underlying system on which it needs
Speaker 1: add it's something that associates it with the blockchain, right, correct, correct,
Speaker 1: And you can use r ify the your barcodes not
Speaker 1: give you an example. So at the beginning of the farm,
Speaker 1: you can have let's say cattle that are at this
Speaker 1: farm and they're taken to the harvesting site. Right there
Speaker 1: at that site, you have a barcode that's generated associated
Speaker 1: with a certain animal that tags that carcass to its
Speaker 1: journey as its as its processed and package. That barcode
Speaker 1: signifies the start of that journey. As that barko progresses
Speaker 1: through the processing plant to the shipping to the logistics
Speaker 1: and it reaches the end of its journey, You're actually
Speaker 1: information is continuously added to the sight with us because
Speaker 1: we're gonna do some news and come back in just
Speaker 1: a few minutes and also talk cryptocurrency because we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about that as a form of use of the
Speaker 1: blockchain and and con technology futurist, let's get right back
Speaker 1: to it with Ian Cohn. He's the director of the
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime documentary Blockchain City, also the upcoming film Bitcoin Dilemma,
Speaker 1: the author of several books as well. He joins us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Princeton, New Jersey. Ian, when right
Speaker 1: before the break, we were talking all about applications for
Speaker 1: blockchain that we're what I would consider not non financial.
Speaker 1: You didn't mention cryptocurrency once, so I want to dive
Speaker 1: into that right now. Why Why didn't you mention cryptocurrency
Speaker 1: as one of the top applications for blockchain technology? Because
Speaker 1: I think that's where a lot of people associated with Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think cryptocurrency is one important side off blockchain, but
Speaker 1: not the most important side. And that's that's my opinion. Uh,
Speaker 1: And it's because cryptocurrencies are in a very initial development
Speaker 1: phase right now. Yes, Bitcoin has been out there for
Speaker 1: the last ten twelve years, but it's waves ahead until
Speaker 1: the financial systems globally accept criptal currencies if they do
Speaker 1: as a stable form of payment or or asset class.
Speaker 1: But that's happening very very slowly. The other applications of blockchain,
Speaker 1: in fact, are proceeding really much rapidly, and the applications
Speaker 1: are tremendous, from insurance industry to logistics, to food, to retail, education,
Speaker 1: music rights, intellectual property. There's a limitless number of applications.
Speaker 1: Crypto is just one of them. When do we get
Speaker 1: to a point where people like me don't ask you
Speaker 1: questions about applications for blockchain technology? That is, where it's
Speaker 1: something that is so present in our lives. If ever
Speaker 1: that we'll all know what it does, yep. I think
Speaker 1: it will be still some time, and it might happen
Speaker 1: in a way in different ways across the world. It
Speaker 1: may happen in certain regions or countries that are faster
Speaker 1: adopting digital any or cryptocurrencies, and it might take decades
Speaker 1: in some other parts of off the world. Uh. And
Speaker 1: it all depends on adoption. It all depends on how
Speaker 1: progressive financial systems and governments in those countries are. We're
Speaker 1: seeing some some countries adopt bitcoin as a form of
Speaker 1: currency of Salador just did that some time ago, although yes,
Speaker 1: a very small nation economically, but but that push has
Speaker 1: started to happen. Will that happen in the United States
Speaker 1: or China or once the world's largest economies. It's it's
Speaker 1: a big, big change, and I don't believe it will
Speaker 1: happen just in a few days. Do you think it
Speaker 1: will happen with bitcoin that will be the cryptocurrency or
Speaker 1: do you think you know? One thing that I hear
Speaker 1: from a lot of experts in people in the spaces,
Speaker 1: they've said, okay, well, you know, the blockchain technology is
Speaker 1: like the underlying technology that the Internet was in the
Speaker 1: A well days and and a well though is is
Speaker 1: like the cryptocurrency of of of of bitcoin. So the
Speaker 1: technology is there, but that's a very really technology and
Speaker 1: what you're going to see built on it will significantly
Speaker 1: surpass what's available right now. I think bitcoin is of
Speaker 1: it has the hype associated with it because it was
Speaker 1: the first cryptocurrency that was out there. It is it
Speaker 1: has a very limited number of cryptocurrencies bitcoins that will
Speaker 1: ever be generated twenty one million, and so it's got
Speaker 1: a few of those factors associated with it. In my
Speaker 1: personal opinion, it still has challenges, it's still has to
Speaker 1: overcome those challenges. And some newer cryptocurrencies are really far ahead,
Speaker 1: very faster, uh and and have got much more utility
Speaker 1: than just bitcoin. But it's it's it's one of the
Speaker 1: popular ones right because it was the first to market.
Speaker 1: And right now is also a time of hype for cryptocurrencies,
Speaker 1: and we've seen that, uh you know, when when certain
Speaker 1: people are tweeting about bitcoin, the prices are going up
Speaker 1: when they're yes elon musk for specifically specifically. So it's
Speaker 1: a very hyper driven um era where consumers are taken
Speaker 1: by what popular figures in the tech industry are doing
Speaker 1: and which is not right, which is which is a
Speaker 1: challenge with bitcoin that it's it's its own fundamentals are
Speaker 1: better than that and it doesn't deserve to be taken
Speaker 1: up and down like that. So that's that's my opinion
Speaker 1: on that. And do you own any cryptocurrencies? I do,
Speaker 1: and it's a very instantesimally small amount. I have deliberately
Speaker 1: done that to stay away from any kind of uh,
Speaker 1: you know question that I might it may arise I
Speaker 1: I own next to zero cryptocurrencies. Are there certain cryptocurrencies
Speaker 1: though that you are more bullish on than than others
Speaker 1: in the short term. I think, of course bitcoin see
Speaker 1: is the most popular one. UM. I like ra hashgraph
Speaker 1: uh and UH. I like Ripple a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I wouldn't I wouldn't push anybody. We can buy them
Speaker 1: or not buy them. Do your due diligence because there
Speaker 1: are so many factors that are driving these crypto currencies.
Speaker 1: Some are fast, some have a limited quantity, some have
Speaker 1: an underlying technology. UM and I interviewed somebody on my
Speaker 1: documentary The bitcoint Dilemma. It's Dr Lehman Beard who invented
Speaker 1: the thea hash grass and it's a it's a cryptocurrency
Speaker 1: that's much faster than bitcoin, and it's got some really
Speaker 1: good things happening with it. But please do your due
Speaker 1: diligence right and don't go with hype. Do your due diligence. Hey, UM,
Speaker 1: when you think about the future uses of of cryptocurrency,
Speaker 1: I wonder if you do see you know, like a
Speaker 1: country like China actually going through and building its own
Speaker 1: digital currency and what that means. I think China is
Speaker 1: doing something very interesting, and we know they've gone cracked
Speaker 1: down signal sequently on cryptocurrency mining, which means they're not
Speaker 1: entertaining crypto currency mining and China great, Now what do?
Speaker 1: What will they do? There's a couple of things they
Speaker 1: could be doing. They could either be creating their own
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency and starting to plan the next few years and
Speaker 1: decades and how that would work. Uh, and also they
Speaker 1: could be looking at the digitization off the off their
Speaker 1: own currency that you want, and so there's two different
Speaker 1: things they could be doing. China is really UH an
Speaker 1: unpredictable adversary. He really cannot predict what China is doing
Speaker 1: because of of all the reasons underlying what China does.
Speaker 1: Be surprised if they come up with their own cryptocurrency
Speaker 1: that they use internally, but at a global level, it
Speaker 1: might be a little bit of a different take. Do
Speaker 1: you think the US will be able to regulate cryptocurrency.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be at least a decade
Speaker 1: before that regulation happens. Although states like Texas have started
Speaker 1: putting the framework in place, they're attracting mining companies and
Speaker 1: they're kind of kind of working on that regulation. I
Speaker 1: In overall, the United States as a country, it might
Speaker 1: be a while before that happens. Ian Con I love
Speaker 1: talking cryptocurrency. Thank you so much for taking the time
Speaker 1: and joining us on Bloomberg business Week Radio. That Ian Coon,
Speaker 1: technology futurist, documentary and author joining us live on the
Speaker 1: phone from Princeton, New Jersey.