WEBVTT - Stop Buying New Stuff with $Pro Katy Wolk-Stanley #072 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt, 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.920 and today we're discussing why you should stop buying new 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:28.080 stuff with money pro Katie Wolke Stanley Ye. Last episode, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.040 we talked about some ways to get great customer service 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.000 and how one of the ways is to make sure 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.120 you research a company or a retailer ahead of time, 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:37.800 and a lot of times we do that with reviews. Well, 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.920 it turns out that these reviews aren't all legit. Yeah, 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:43.640 that's so true, Matt. I think we're living in a 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.000 time where reviews it's harder to tell the legitimacy of 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.400 those reviews online. Right, So it's not that all online 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.720 reviews can't be trusted, but we do have to be 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.280 careful when we're especially on particular items, Right, that's the 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.320 place where fake reviews are most frequently found. Yeah, certain 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.040 items at there to highlight or boost sales for. But yeah, 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.600 we came across an article recently where the FTC announced 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:08.479 a lawsuit against an online retailer on Amazon for paying 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.440 for fake reviews, and as they looked into it, it it 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:12.720 seemed like there's a lot of this going on. There's 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.560 at least a lot of suspect reviews going on, and 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:17.880 so some of the telltale signs they said to look 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.280 out for when you're looking at these reviews is to 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.760 look out for reviews that have broken English, because a 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.440 lot of these different companies are kind of farmed overseas 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.039 and the reviews are kind of half baked. Another sign 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.520 is that if there is a singular reviewer, So if 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.520 you see a great review and then you click on 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.400 it and it turns out they've got thousands of reviews 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.880 that they've left recently for different companies or maybe they're 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.920 all reviews in the same industry, that's also a red flag. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.160 And then lastly, look for retailers that have a surge 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.360 of positive reviews, all within a very short period of time. So, yeah, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:50.280 keep a lookout for all of those things to avoid 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.120 some of those those fake bogus reviews. Yeah, I think 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.480 sometimes Matt, people rely on just that kind of that 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.000 quick look to see what the star rating is for 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.320 a product on Amazon or whatever they're shopping on, and 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.320 it helps actually to dig in just a little bit, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.320 and you can tell by reading a few reviews kind 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.160 of the people that have actually used the product, that 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.240 are familiar with it. That seem to have a working 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.200 knowledge of what they're actually reviewing. And I think if 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.359 you just go by that star level, you might get 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.040 letters straight because there could be a lot of fake 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.160 reviews buried in there. So yeah, go down and actually 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.360 read some of the reviews, especially if it's a bigger purchase. 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.000 And one other way you can avoid kind of getting 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.400 taken by a bunch of fake reviews on a product 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.920 and thinking it's excellent and making the purchase. There's a 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.000 website called fake spot dot com, so check that out. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:33.960 We'll we'll post that in the show notes. But yes, 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.880 so when you cut and paste that link from Amazon, Walmart, 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.960 wherever you're shopping into fake spot, it gives you kind 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.280 of a grade. And for instance, on an item I 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.359 just put in here, Matt, it says Ora Engine detected. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.400 In general, the reviewers have a suspiciously positive sentiment. So 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.079 I guess this, uh, this AI is just intuitive enough 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:57.600 to know too too happy exactly exactly. So apparently of 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.920 the reviews are reliable on this one. So that's why 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.280 it's a great of f and uh so, yeah, it's 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.560 just kind of helpful, a little bit of AI in 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.639 your life, right to help you outspot those fake reviews. Yeah, Joel, 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.600 that AI or there's different algorithms. They're they're helpful, right, 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.840 they're different tools that you can use when you're looking 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.560 at purchases. I know on Yelp specifically, they have different 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.119 reviews that are hidden because they think, oh, this person 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.040 doesn't have enough reviews. Like they've taken steps in order 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.000 to try to keep some of those bogus reviews from 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.800 having too large of an effects on a business. But 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.639 but yeah, you know, it comes down to an individual, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.800 because us as consumers are much smarter than any algorithm 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.200 that's out there, at least currently, and so yeah, it's 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.360 up to you as a consumer. I don't know, Mat, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.200 I've met some robots that are smarter than me already, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.680 so I am a little worried. So you know what 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.800 we need to do. While we're thinking about AI taking 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.280 over jobs, let's step back and let's enjoy one of 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.840 the finer things in life, a nice craft beer. Okay, 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.000 and listener Brandon sent a beer called a Zy Dreamsicle 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.160 Double I p A by a brewery called Arizona Wilderness, 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.920 and Matt, I've heard fantastic things about this brewery. Never 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.600 had any of their beers until I literally just sipped 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.680 this a second ago. Sorry, Yeah, you all cheat and 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:02.520 have like a tiny sip of the beer before we 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.960 actually announce it. And I'm the purest and I like 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.400 to sit by and patiently wait so you can just 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.080 look at the can art or something like that. Well, 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.360 well I have a sip. Well you enjoy your rule following, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.560 and I'll enjoy my beer. Smells delicious, I know that, 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.320 but this is uh double I p a with Arizona oranges, 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:21.080 vanilla lactose and sit her hops. So this beer is 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.680 supposed to taste like an orange dream sickle. And you 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.280 know what, I'm not gonna spoil it yet. We'll tell 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:27.919 you what we think of this beer at the end 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.520 of the show. We're not gonna spoil it, but you 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.080 can put your money on it. Sure does. Dang it. 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.240 You spoiled it all right, Matt, onto the topic at hand. 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.120 We're talking about not buying new stuff in money pro 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.720 Katie walk Stanley turned in her five minutes of wisdom 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.360 that I'm super excited to share with everyone. She is 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.480 the founder of the site non Consumer Advocate dot com. 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.960 Katie is super cool. She writes about ways to avoid 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.560 buying new stuff, making do with what you've got, and 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.400 in particular often her affinity for good will. She's a 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.440 complete nerd for good Will. I feel like if you 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.120 follow her her on Instagram, you're seeing a lot of 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.080 good will shots much all the time, like her holding 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.320 something smiling. She sells a lot of it too. She's 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:06.440 got the side hustle going on right, and she sells 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.000 a lot of the nicer items that she knows that 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:10.520 she can find in a good will. She knows she 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.039 can sell those online. That's kind of like her side hustle. Yeah, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.839 make an extra buck. So she's a nurse that likes 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.080 to shop at Goodwill and make a buck on the side. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.560 I like that. Yeah. Something else I like about her 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.960 is she is not afraid of picking stuff up off 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.480 of the sidewalk. So I am all about the what 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.160 I call the curb alert. So just free stuff. I've 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.159 picked up microwave before, like it was pretty new. It 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.920 wasn't like nasty grain, boots, building supplies. You know. I've 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.560 scored all sorts of stuff on the side of the children. Yeah, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.240 if they're just sitting there. However, she takes it to 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.240 like a whole another level. Recently, she posted a picture 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.760 of a soggy towel on the sidewalk like it was wet, 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.640 like a wet towel. And we live in Atlanta and 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.680 we see these things and those are things you just 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.479 do not pick up. No, no, I don't. But she 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.240 has no fear. And I think part of it is 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.320 because she's a nurse. She's like, whatever, I've seen it all, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.240 I've touched it all. And yeah, man, she'll pick up 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.360 like a wet, saggy towel off the side of the road, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.320 like in the gutter. It's like that thing home and 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.279 clean it and throwing the dryer and it's like nice 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.400 and warm and fluffy looking. Just by looking at it, 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.160 I can tell it smells good. Yeah, her commitment is enviable. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.840 It's really impressive. The reason, Matt, we wanted to cover 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.919 this subject today is because there is a massive problem 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.679 in our country. And the problem is that the friction 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.839 of buying new stuff has become almost non existent. It's 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.680 so easy, there's one click to purchase on Amazon. We 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.800 just buy something new when we think about it, or 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.960 when older thing wears out or breaks. We are a 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.240 society that loves to see new things show up on 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.480 our doorstep. In Chinese packaging and Matt there's this phenomenon 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.080 even where somebody orders something on Amazon, they forget what 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.599 they've ordered. It feels like almost like an unboxing video 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.720 for them because they don't even remember what they purchased 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.760 two days ago when it shows up on Prime. I 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.479 think that's just indicative of the fact that we buy 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.599 too much new stuff. Not only is that a budget killer, 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.440 but it has ramifications to go even beyond that. Chedel 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.200 I mean, over consumption has always been an issue when 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.520 it comes to the environ because of the production of 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.760 new goods that has to happen because all that old 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.560 stuff has to go somewhere, right, And recently it's not 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.680 only affecting the environment, but again it's kind of going 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.280 back to to the dollar, but it's swinging back again 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.000 and hurting US as a country financially, and not just 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.320 the US but just other countries in Europe as well. 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.760 But that's the fact that recycling is becoming too expensive. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.480 Fairly recently, China is just is not accepting recyclables anymore. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.280 They used to be the number one buyer of recyclables, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:30.320 and that's just no longer the case invisible. Actually, do 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.160 you listen to them? I don't. Yeah, that's they're one 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.120 of my favorites. I've heard they're awesome. I really need 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.400 to Roman Mars. He's got that deep, soothing voice, super dramatic. 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.559 Kate King standum, but but I like him a lot. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.480 But they did a really good story. And what China 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.080 rolled out they called it Operation National Sword, and essentially 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:48.840 it was them saying no, we're not going to take 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.240 your recyclables anymore because of just how they want to 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.880 portray themselves as a country, not just as this country 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.120 that accepts everyone's garbage, basically where they melt down all 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.320 the plastic and turn it into plastic pellets that get 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.520 to be made into new toys, things like that. From 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.000 a financial standpoint, it's becoming a problem again where for years, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.000 for decades, it was affordable to consider recycling as just 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.560 the easy solution, but unfortunately that's just not the case anymore. Yes, so, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.280 so many local municipalities and governments are having trouble knowing 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.360 what to do with everything that you put in your 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.160 blue recycling bin or whatever color you're recycling bin is 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.920 because there's no money to be made. On that recycling anymore. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.480 And so we as humans have to be thoughtful about 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.640 the stuff we're buying, not only for the environment, but 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.840 for how it impacts our personal finances. And so let's 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.200 hear from Katie Woke Stanley. She's got some really good 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.440 thoughts for us on how to stop buying new stuff. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.559 Just to reminder, every Money Pro episode we bring our 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.440 Money Pro on for five minutes of distilled wisdom. Let's 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.079 hear Katie's Now, Hey, Matt, hey, Joel, thank you so 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.319 much for having me on your terrific podcast. Now, before 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.720 I get started, I figured I should be enjoying a 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.520 nice craft beer, especially since I'm from Portland, Oregon, which 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.520 is just home to a million craft breweries. But instead 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:06.760 mm hmm, I will be enjoying a fine tableaud because 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.480 that's how I roll. Now. I made a decision in 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:15.120 two thousand seven to stop buying new stuff. This has 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:21.040 evolved into what I call non consumerism, and it encompasses frugality, minimalism, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:25.440 zero waste, and big picture financial goal sittings. A good 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.280 example of this is my TV is about four ft thick, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.319 and yet my daughter just graduated from college without any 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.000 student loan debt. The tagline of my blog is use 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.760 it up, wear it out, make it do or do without, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.840 And that's just kind of how I think about my 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:47.120 purchases that my family makes. So not only does buying 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.000 use keep my family on budget, but it also benefits 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:55.120 the environment as our purchases usually come without any packaging, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:00.120 and most importantly, our purchases don't trigger the manufacture are 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.160 a brand new items. And this is really important to 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.520 me as I feel that over manufacture of consumer items 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:12.200 is a global environmental crisis and that if we all 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:17.520 really thought a little more critically about our own purchases, 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.480 that we could start making a dent in this. By 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.880 examining our own roles as consumers, we can take control 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.480 of how our purchases do affect the world we live in. 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.760 For example, many of my household belongings and my house 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.400 is fine, it's lovely, are things that I've dragged home 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.320 from free paths in my neighborhood or I got through 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.559 my local buy nothing group. Something you should check to 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.040 see if you have in your area things I got 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.640 for free, hand me downs, thrift store stuff. People often 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:52.760 misunderstand being environmentally responsible as something that you can buy 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:57.320 your way into the idea that you can just get 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.839 rid of the things that you have because oh the 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.880 these aren't organic bamboo, when in fact, the most environmentally 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.959 responsible choice you can make is to just kind of 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:12.240 make do with what you already own. It's maybe not 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:18.760 as pretty on Pinterest or Instagram, but it should be considered. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.959 When you buy used, you give a second life to 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.640 discarded and unwanted items, and since you're choosing secondhand, you 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.920 can afford to buy higher quality things that last longer, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.640 are less trendy, which means that they're not going to 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.520 appear outdated so quickly, and they can be repaired. A 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.800 solid wood item can be glued, can be sanded, can 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.760 be refinished. That particle board thing that you got not 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.839 so much. Once it's broken, it's kind of broken. Then 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.959 that's it, and then it's off to the landfill. Now, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.520 you did an episode on How to Money about cheap 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.080 versus frugal, and it was a great episode and it 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:58.920 really gave me a lot to food for thought, and 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.360 I want to just respond to it, but I feel 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.520 that there's a third choice in there. There's a little 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.400 bit of a false dichotomy, and that is where non 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.080 consumerism comes to play, and that is that third choice. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.480 And because when you are by used, you are getting 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:19.440 things really cheap, but you have things that are better quality. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.560 And the reason I want to talk about this is 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.800 I feel that a lot of people dig themselves into 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:29.160 financial holes, living beyond their means, get themselves into debt 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.719 that's very hard to get out of once you're in it. 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.360 Because people don't want the stigma of appearing cheap. They 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.920 don't want to drive the car that's kind of scrappy 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.240 looking and maybe has some dance, although it may still 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:47.800 be completely functional. So I am here to stand up 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:52.280 for the cheap people. Non consumerism allows you to step 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.080 back from those societal expectations, to not keep up with 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.400 those dreaded jones is. Take care of what you own 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.040 or pay, are things when they break, Steer clear of 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.280 those trends, and except that your stuff might not be 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:12.480 a perfect is great is fine too. In other words, 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.360 use it up, wear it out, make it do or 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.440 do without. Thank you Joel and Matt for having me 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.480 on your podcasts. I've loved every episode. Keep it coming 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.320 all right, Joel, Katie, she's dropping that poor Landian knowledge 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.320 on us. I love it, and I love her motto 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.400 to write, use it up, wear it out, make it 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.760 do or do without. And after the break, that's one 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:42.199 of the things that we're gonna unpack. Matt. We're back. 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.600 As we wait into this topic of not buying new stuff, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.800 there was this awesome quote I had recently read from 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.960 Maya Angelou and she said, we need much less than 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:51.839 we think we need. And I feel like Katie just 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.800 kind of set us up to think through this idea 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.320 of not buying new stuff just a little bit better. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.400 I think that title probably of this episode, even just 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.040 people seeing that before they click to play, was kind 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.680 of like, whatter Matt and Joel going to get into 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.880 here today? Are they actually going to advocate not buying 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:08.840 new stuff? And I feel like as we get through 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.040 this episode, you and I will talk about our own 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.600 personal take on how we view buying new stuff. But 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.680 more than anything, I feel like Katie's influence in how 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.520 she thinks about buying new stuff is just really helpful. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.640 We don't all necessarily have to put a ban on 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.120 buying new stuff completely, and I know that that's not 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.880 the direction I'm headed in, but I'm really excited to 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.720 unpack what she had to say, because it is changing 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.040 the way I think about buying new stuff, and that 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.240 is helpful, all right, So let's start at the top. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.400 She mentioned how in two thousand and seven she stopped 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.040 buying new stuff, and she calls it non consumerism, which 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.600 is a little tongue in cheek, right, like you hear 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.800 of a consumer advocate. It's like, oh, this is something 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.000 that's that's for me, that's they're on my side. But 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:48.920 she's kind of turning it on its head a little 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.040 bit calling it non consumerism. I love that, just from 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.280 the very start. I love that. An example she gave 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.080 was how she has like an old school four ft 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:58.960 thick TV is what she said, What are this called 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.360 like CRT monitors? Is that like with the tube? Maybe? Yeah, 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.720 the tube television, that's exact, and those things are incredibly heavy. 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.440 I I actually literally on the way home from work 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.600 today past one sitting on the side of the road, 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.160 and I thought of Katie because I was like, I 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.400 know she would pick that up. I didn't, but I 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.640 know she would. She's like, that's an upgrade. So she 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.080 has like an old school TV, but her daughter doesn't 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.280 have any student loans. That dichotomy was striking. Yeah, I 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.600 love that because for her, it's a decision based on 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.120 her values. And Katie, she values there being one less 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.760 TV in the lane fill and she also at the 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.200 same time values not being in student loan debt. And 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.560 obviously this is what a countercultural as many Americans have 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.880 the exact opposite kind of going on in their life. Yes, 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:42.800 so what she's doing is just kind of reframing it 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.200 for us and saying, like, I made a trade off here, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.040 and it's a trade off that most people aren't willing 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.280 to make. But when you think about it logically, that 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.200 idea of having a thicker TV in order to be 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.760 able to pay down your student loans more quickly, that's 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.080 really not that big of a sacrifice, right, Matt. I've 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:58.720 got a flat screen TV. I've had it for over 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.720 a decade, but I've only got one and I haven't 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.680 upgraded too four K, even though it's kind of been 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.960 something that I've considered. We've only got one TV as well, 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.880 but it is a four K because when those TVs 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.560 came out, I thought they were freaking awesome. And I 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.280 think that's part of why Katie's motto is so difficult 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.200 because it challenges purchases that we make, maybe without even 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.240 thinking about them, or even if we do think about it, 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.480 we think, oh man, that's old. It's you know, time 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.760 for an upgrade. There's just habits and like the message 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.880 of consumerism, they're fed to us almost daily, and whether 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.080 it be through advertising or whether it be through just 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.960 pressures of those around us. You see your friends, maybe 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.680 make an upgrade, or there's just different pressures that we 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.440 have placed on us, and they're not intentional. We just 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.800 absorb what we see and what we're around. And I 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.520 think that rampant consumerism, that's one of the main things 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.520 that I feel that Katie is kind of focusing in on. Oh, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.440 it completely is. And I think when you draw a 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.600 line in the sand, a firm line in the sand, 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.800 it can be so helpful in helping you actually total 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.760 line properly. When you're walking that messy middle like you 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.400 and I do a lot of the time, Matt, it 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.400 it can be hard. It's easier to rationalize a decision 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.760 based on what you want right now. And so later 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:06.280 on the show, we're gonna talk about kind of some 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.960 tips of how you can actually still buy new things 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.119 on occasion without sinking the whole ship. That's how we 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.280 view this. But I gotta say I have mad respect 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.639 for how Katie does it. And and she insists that 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.719 buying used helps keep her and her family on a budget, 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.520 and I see that, Man, it's working out for her 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.960 for sure. They value a degree of financial freedom that 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.760 most people could only dream of. Katie worked part time 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.000 as a nurse while her husband was in school. She's 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.359 raised kids, her daughter has graduated college without any student 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.560 loan debt. I mean, those are amazing things that seem 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.000 out of reach for most people today. And the fact 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.520 that she has drawn this hard line and has stuck 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.560 to it, that's what's allowed her that financial freedom. Yeah, 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.520 that's one of her passions, Like, that's her goal is 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.400 to help people to live on as little money as possible. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.520 And so, like we said, buying used it's more affordable, 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.920 but also by default it's better for the environment. There's 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.040 little to know packaging, and also it just doesn't trigger 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.119 that manufacturing of new items. I think it's worth noting 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.159 what Katie does buy new. She buys new underwear, socks, 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.240 and perishables, right, And that's good because I don't know Matt. 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.480 If you've ever been a good will, you're you're looking around. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.359 If you've looked at the underwear section, it's pretty growdy. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:17.560 And so is there an actual underwear section? Yes? There is, Yes, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.720 of course they sell underwear, They sell bras, they sell 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.680 everything that someone might wear underneath their clothes and socks. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:26.720 I will draw the line in that area. I'm not 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.760 gonna wear your socks, still bother me, But underwear that's 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.560 like a whole different thing. You would wear you socks 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.040 if they're clean, okay, all right, like darn tough, or 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.240 you know some of those nice like Vermont Will, like 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:38.680 lifetime warranty socks, dude, I totally pick. Some of those 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.880 are those often found at the thrift store. I bet 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.840 they are okay, especially after the Mrie condo epidemic. If 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.440 anybody could find them, Katie could because she is a 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.320 master good will shopper. But her husband will buy new 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.640 by the way, but let's get into her motto, Matt, 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.760 it's use it up, wear it out, make it do 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.879 or do without. And that's kind of the lens that 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.359 she views all her purchases through. That's right, Jill, So 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.240 let's go ahead and break that down some so use 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.440 it up. And the way I interpret this is it's 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.880 mostly about reducing waste. As a country, we throw out 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.280 tons of freaking food. On average, we toss out one 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.480 pound per person a day. That's insane. Yeah, that's an 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.119 insane amount of food. It's estimated that we waste of 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.560 all the food that's prepared for us as a country. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.800 I mean that is a huge amount, right, And so 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.000 not only is there a waste from a financial standpoint, 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.639 but just think about the impact environmentally of all the 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.000 resources and money that went into even creating like that 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:32.840