Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing why you should stop buying new
Speaker 1: stuff with money pro Katie Wolke Stanley Ye. Last episode,
Speaker 1: we talked about some ways to get great customer service
Speaker 1: and how one of the ways is to make sure
Speaker 1: you research a company or a retailer ahead of time,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times we do that with reviews. Well,
Speaker 1: it turns out that these reviews aren't all legit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so true, Matt. I think we're living in a
Speaker 1: time where reviews it's harder to tell the legitimacy of
Speaker 1: those reviews online. Right, So it's not that all online
Speaker 1: reviews can't be trusted, but we do have to be
Speaker 1: careful when we're especially on particular items, Right, that's the
Speaker 1: place where fake reviews are most frequently found. Yeah, certain
Speaker 1: items at there to highlight or boost sales for. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we came across an article recently where the FTC announced
Speaker 1: a lawsuit against an online retailer on Amazon for paying
Speaker 1: for fake reviews, and as they looked into it, it it
Speaker 1: seemed like there's a lot of this going on. There's
Speaker 1: at least a lot of suspect reviews going on, and
Speaker 1: so some of the telltale signs they said to look
Speaker 1: out for when you're looking at these reviews is to
Speaker 1: look out for reviews that have broken English, because a
Speaker 1: lot of these different companies are kind of farmed overseas
Speaker 1: and the reviews are kind of half baked. Another sign
Speaker 1: is that if there is a singular reviewer, So if
Speaker 1: you see a great review and then you click on
Speaker 1: it and it turns out they've got thousands of reviews
Speaker 1: that they've left recently for different companies or maybe they're
Speaker 1: all reviews in the same industry, that's also a red flag.
Speaker 1: And then lastly, look for retailers that have a surge
Speaker 1: of positive reviews, all within a very short period of time. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: keep a lookout for all of those things to avoid
Speaker 1: some of those those fake bogus reviews. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: sometimes Matt, people rely on just that kind of that
Speaker 1: quick look to see what the star rating is for
Speaker 1: a product on Amazon or whatever they're shopping on, and
Speaker 1: it helps actually to dig in just a little bit,
Speaker 1: and you can tell by reading a few reviews kind
Speaker 1: of the people that have actually used the product, that
Speaker 1: are familiar with it. That seem to have a working
Speaker 1: knowledge of what they're actually reviewing. And I think if
Speaker 1: you just go by that star level, you might get
Speaker 1: letters straight because there could be a lot of fake
Speaker 1: reviews buried in there. So yeah, go down and actually
Speaker 1: read some of the reviews, especially if it's a bigger purchase.
Speaker 1: And one other way you can avoid kind of getting
Speaker 1: taken by a bunch of fake reviews on a product
Speaker 1: and thinking it's excellent and making the purchase. There's a
Speaker 1: website called fake spot dot com, so check that out.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll post that in the show notes. But yes,
Speaker 1: so when you cut and paste that link from Amazon, Walmart,
Speaker 1: wherever you're shopping into fake spot, it gives you kind
Speaker 1: of a grade. And for instance, on an item I
Speaker 1: just put in here, Matt, it says Ora Engine detected.
Speaker 1: In general, the reviewers have a suspiciously positive sentiment. So
Speaker 1: I guess this, uh, this AI is just intuitive enough
Speaker 1: to know too too happy exactly exactly. So apparently of
Speaker 1: the reviews are reliable on this one. So that's why
Speaker 1: it's a great of f and uh so, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just kind of helpful, a little bit of AI in
Speaker 1: your life, right to help you outspot those fake reviews. Yeah, Joel,
Speaker 1: that AI or there's different algorithms. They're they're helpful, right,
Speaker 1: they're different tools that you can use when you're looking
Speaker 1: at purchases. I know on Yelp specifically, they have different
Speaker 1: reviews that are hidden because they think, oh, this person
Speaker 1: doesn't have enough reviews. Like they've taken steps in order
Speaker 1: to try to keep some of those bogus reviews from
Speaker 1: having too large of an effects on a business. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, it comes down to an individual,
Speaker 1: because us as consumers are much smarter than any algorithm
Speaker 1: that's out there, at least currently, and so yeah, it's
Speaker 1: up to you as a consumer. I don't know, Mat,
Speaker 1: I've met some robots that are smarter than me already,
Speaker 1: so I am a little worried. So you know what
Speaker 1: we need to do. While we're thinking about AI taking
Speaker 1: over jobs, let's step back and let's enjoy one of
Speaker 1: the finer things in life, a nice craft beer. Okay,
Speaker 1: and listener Brandon sent a beer called a Zy Dreamsicle
Speaker 1: Double I p A by a brewery called Arizona Wilderness,
Speaker 1: and Matt, I've heard fantastic things about this brewery. Never
Speaker 1: had any of their beers until I literally just sipped
Speaker 1: this a second ago. Sorry, Yeah, you all cheat and
Speaker 1: have like a tiny sip of the beer before we
Speaker 1: actually announce it. And I'm the purest and I like
Speaker 1: to sit by and patiently wait so you can just
Speaker 1: look at the can art or something like that. Well,
Speaker 1: well I have a sip. Well you enjoy your rule following,
Speaker 1: and I'll enjoy my beer. Smells delicious, I know that,
Speaker 1: but this is uh double I p a with Arizona oranges,
Speaker 1: vanilla lactose and sit her hops. So this beer is
Speaker 1: supposed to taste like an orange dream sickle. And you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm not gonna spoil it yet. We'll tell
Speaker 1: you what we think of this beer at the end
Speaker 1: of the show. We're not gonna spoil it, but you
Speaker 1: can put your money on it. Sure does. Dang it.
Speaker 1: You spoiled it all right, Matt, onto the topic at hand.
Speaker 1: We're talking about not buying new stuff in money pro
Speaker 1: Katie walk Stanley turned in her five minutes of wisdom
Speaker 1: that I'm super excited to share with everyone. She is
Speaker 1: the founder of the site non Consumer Advocate dot com.
Speaker 1: Katie is super cool. She writes about ways to avoid
Speaker 1: buying new stuff, making do with what you've got, and
Speaker 1: in particular often her affinity for good will. She's a
Speaker 1: complete nerd for good Will. I feel like if you
Speaker 1: follow her her on Instagram, you're seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: good will shots much all the time, like her holding
Speaker 1: something smiling. She sells a lot of it too. She's
Speaker 1: got the side hustle going on right, and she sells
Speaker 1: a lot of the nicer items that she knows that
Speaker 1: she can find in a good will. She knows she
Speaker 1: can sell those online. That's kind of like her side hustle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: make an extra buck. So she's a nurse that likes
Speaker 1: to shop at Goodwill and make a buck on the side.
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah. Something else I like about her
Speaker 1: is she is not afraid of picking stuff up off
Speaker 1: of the sidewalk. So I am all about the what
Speaker 1: I call the curb alert. So just free stuff. I've
Speaker 1: picked up microwave before, like it was pretty new. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like nasty grain, boots, building supplies. You know. I've
Speaker 1: scored all sorts of stuff on the side of the children. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if they're just sitting there. However, she takes it to
Speaker 1: like a whole another level. Recently, she posted a picture
Speaker 1: of a soggy towel on the sidewalk like it was wet,
Speaker 1: like a wet towel. And we live in Atlanta and
Speaker 1: we see these things and those are things you just
Speaker 1: do not pick up. No, no, I don't. But she
Speaker 1: has no fear. And I think part of it is
Speaker 1: because she's a nurse. She's like, whatever, I've seen it all,
Speaker 1: I've touched it all. And yeah, man, she'll pick up
Speaker 1: like a wet, saggy towel off the side of the road,
Speaker 1: like in the gutter. It's like that thing home and
Speaker 1: clean it and throwing the dryer and it's like nice
Speaker 1: and warm and fluffy looking. Just by looking at it,
Speaker 1: I can tell it smells good. Yeah, her commitment is enviable.
Speaker 1: It's really impressive. The reason, Matt, we wanted to cover
Speaker 1: this subject today is because there is a massive problem
Speaker 1: in our country. And the problem is that the friction
Speaker 1: of buying new stuff has become almost non existent. It's
Speaker 1: so easy, there's one click to purchase on Amazon. We
Speaker 1: just buy something new when we think about it, or
Speaker 1: when older thing wears out or breaks. We are a
Speaker 1: society that loves to see new things show up on
Speaker 1: our doorstep. In Chinese packaging and Matt there's this phenomenon
Speaker 1: even where somebody orders something on Amazon, they forget what
Speaker 1: they've ordered. It feels like almost like an unboxing video
Speaker 1: for them because they don't even remember what they purchased
Speaker 1: two days ago when it shows up on Prime. I
Speaker 1: think that's just indicative of the fact that we buy
Speaker 1: too much new stuff. Not only is that a budget killer,
Speaker 1: but it has ramifications to go even beyond that. Chedel
Speaker 1: I mean, over consumption has always been an issue when
Speaker 1: it comes to the environ because of the production of
Speaker 1: new goods that has to happen because all that old
Speaker 1: stuff has to go somewhere, right, And recently it's not
Speaker 1: only affecting the environment, but again it's kind of going
Speaker 1: back to to the dollar, but it's swinging back again
Speaker 1: and hurting US as a country financially, and not just
Speaker 1: the US but just other countries in Europe as well.
Speaker 1: But that's the fact that recycling is becoming too expensive.
Speaker 1: Fairly recently, China is just is not accepting recyclables anymore.
Speaker 1: They used to be the number one buyer of recyclables,
Speaker 1: and that's just no longer the case invisible. Actually, do
Speaker 1: you listen to them? I don't. Yeah, that's they're one
Speaker 1: of my favorites. I've heard they're awesome. I really need
Speaker 1: to Roman Mars. He's got that deep, soothing voice, super dramatic.
Speaker 1: Kate King standum, but but I like him a lot.
Speaker 1: But they did a really good story. And what China
Speaker 1: rolled out they called it Operation National Sword, and essentially
Speaker 1: it was them saying no, we're not going to take
Speaker 1: your recyclables anymore because of just how they want to
Speaker 1: portray themselves as a country, not just as this country
Speaker 1: that accepts everyone's garbage, basically where they melt down all
Speaker 1: the plastic and turn it into plastic pellets that get
Speaker 1: to be made into new toys, things like that. From
Speaker 1: a financial standpoint, it's becoming a problem again where for years,
Speaker 1: for decades, it was affordable to consider recycling as just
Speaker 1: the easy solution, but unfortunately that's just not the case anymore. Yes, so,
Speaker 1: so many local municipalities and governments are having trouble knowing
Speaker 1: what to do with everything that you put in your
Speaker 1: blue recycling bin or whatever color you're recycling bin is
Speaker 1: because there's no money to be made. On that recycling anymore.
Speaker 1: And so we as humans have to be thoughtful about
Speaker 1: the stuff we're buying, not only for the environment, but
Speaker 1: for how it impacts our personal finances. And so let's
Speaker 1: hear from Katie Woke Stanley. She's got some really good
Speaker 1: thoughts for us on how to stop buying new stuff.
Speaker 1: Just to reminder, every Money Pro episode we bring our
Speaker 1: Money Pro on for five minutes of distilled wisdom. Let's
Speaker 1: hear Katie's Now, Hey, Matt, hey, Joel, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me on your terrific podcast. Now, before
Speaker 1: I get started, I figured I should be enjoying a
Speaker 1: nice craft beer, especially since I'm from Portland, Oregon, which
Speaker 1: is just home to a million craft breweries. But instead
Speaker 1: mm hmm, I will be enjoying a fine tableaud because
Speaker 1: that's how I roll. Now. I made a decision in
Speaker 1: two thousand seven to stop buying new stuff. This has
Speaker 1: evolved into what I call non consumerism, and it encompasses frugality, minimalism,
Speaker 1: zero waste, and big picture financial goal sittings. A good
Speaker 1: example of this is my TV is about four ft thick,
Speaker 1: and yet my daughter just graduated from college without any
Speaker 1: student loan debt. The tagline of my blog is use
Speaker 1: it up, wear it out, make it do or do without,
Speaker 1: And that's just kind of how I think about my
Speaker 1: purchases that my family makes. So not only does buying
Speaker 1: use keep my family on budget, but it also benefits
Speaker 1: the environment as our purchases usually come without any packaging,
Speaker 1: and most importantly, our purchases don't trigger the manufacture are
Speaker 1: a brand new items. And this is really important to
Speaker 1: me as I feel that over manufacture of consumer items
Speaker 1: is a global environmental crisis and that if we all
Speaker 1: really thought a little more critically about our own purchases,
Speaker 1: that we could start making a dent in this. By
Speaker 1: examining our own roles as consumers, we can take control
Speaker 1: of how our purchases do affect the world we live in.
Speaker 1: For example, many of my household belongings and my house
Speaker 1: is fine, it's lovely, are things that I've dragged home
Speaker 1: from free paths in my neighborhood or I got through
Speaker 1: my local buy nothing group. Something you should check to
Speaker 1: see if you have in your area things I got
Speaker 1: for free, hand me downs, thrift store stuff. People often
Speaker 1: misunderstand being environmentally responsible as something that you can buy
Speaker 1: your way into the idea that you can just get
Speaker 1: rid of the things that you have because oh the
Speaker 1: these aren't organic bamboo, when in fact, the most environmentally
Speaker 1: responsible choice you can make is to just kind of
Speaker 1: make do with what you already own. It's maybe not
Speaker 1: as pretty on Pinterest or Instagram, but it should be considered.
Speaker 1: When you buy used, you give a second life to
Speaker 1: discarded and unwanted items, and since you're choosing secondhand, you
Speaker 1: can afford to buy higher quality things that last longer,
Speaker 1: are less trendy, which means that they're not going to
Speaker 1: appear outdated so quickly, and they can be repaired. A
Speaker 1: solid wood item can be glued, can be sanded, can
Speaker 1: be refinished. That particle board thing that you got not
Speaker 1: so much. Once it's broken, it's kind of broken. Then
Speaker 1: that's it, and then it's off to the landfill. Now,
Speaker 1: you did an episode on How to Money about cheap
Speaker 1: versus frugal, and it was a great episode and it
Speaker 1: really gave me a lot to food for thought, and
Speaker 1: I want to just respond to it, but I feel
Speaker 1: that there's a third choice in there. There's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a false dichotomy, and that is where non
Speaker 1: consumerism comes to play, and that is that third choice.
Speaker 1: And because when you are by used, you are getting
Speaker 1: things really cheap, but you have things that are better quality.
Speaker 1: And the reason I want to talk about this is
Speaker 1: I feel that a lot of people dig themselves into
Speaker 1: financial holes, living beyond their means, get themselves into debt
Speaker 1: that's very hard to get out of once you're in it.
Speaker 1: Because people don't want the stigma of appearing cheap. They
Speaker 1: don't want to drive the car that's kind of scrappy
Speaker 1: looking and maybe has some dance, although it may still
Speaker 1: be completely functional. So I am here to stand up
Speaker 1: for the cheap people. Non consumerism allows you to step
Speaker 1: back from those societal expectations, to not keep up with
Speaker 1: those dreaded jones is. Take care of what you own
Speaker 1: or pay, are things when they break, Steer clear of
Speaker 1: those trends, and except that your stuff might not be
Speaker 1: a perfect is great is fine too. In other words,
Speaker 1: use it up, wear it out, make it do or
Speaker 1: do without. Thank you Joel and Matt for having me
Speaker 1: on your podcasts. I've loved every episode. Keep it coming
Speaker 1: all right, Joel, Katie, she's dropping that poor Landian knowledge
Speaker 1: on us. I love it, and I love her motto
Speaker 1: to write, use it up, wear it out, make it
Speaker 1: do or do without. And after the break, that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that we're gonna unpack. Matt. We're back.
Speaker 1: As we wait into this topic of not buying new stuff,
Speaker 1: there was this awesome quote I had recently read from
Speaker 1: Maya Angelou and she said, we need much less than
Speaker 1: we think we need. And I feel like Katie just
Speaker 1: kind of set us up to think through this idea
Speaker 1: of not buying new stuff just a little bit better.
Speaker 1: I think that title probably of this episode, even just
Speaker 1: people seeing that before they click to play, was kind
Speaker 1: of like, whatter Matt and Joel going to get into
Speaker 1: here today? Are they actually going to advocate not buying
Speaker 1: new stuff? And I feel like as we get through
Speaker 1: this episode, you and I will talk about our own
Speaker 1: personal take on how we view buying new stuff. But
Speaker 1: more than anything, I feel like Katie's influence in how
Speaker 1: she thinks about buying new stuff is just really helpful.
Speaker 1: We don't all necessarily have to put a ban on
Speaker 1: buying new stuff completely, and I know that that's not
Speaker 1: the direction I'm headed in, but I'm really excited to
Speaker 1: unpack what she had to say, because it is changing
Speaker 1: the way I think about buying new stuff, and that
Speaker 1: is helpful, all right, So let's start at the top.
Speaker 1: She mentioned how in two thousand and seven she stopped
Speaker 1: buying new stuff, and she calls it non consumerism, which
Speaker 1: is a little tongue in cheek, right, like you hear
Speaker 1: of a consumer advocate. It's like, oh, this is something
Speaker 1: that's that's for me, that's they're on my side. But
Speaker 1: she's kind of turning it on its head a little
Speaker 1: bit calling it non consumerism. I love that, just from
Speaker 1: the very start. I love that. An example she gave
Speaker 1: was how she has like an old school four ft
Speaker 1: thick TV is what she said, What are this called
Speaker 1: like CRT monitors? Is that like with the tube? Maybe? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the tube television, that's exact, and those things are incredibly heavy.
Speaker 1: I I actually literally on the way home from work
Speaker 1: today past one sitting on the side of the road,
Speaker 1: and I thought of Katie because I was like, I
Speaker 1: know she would pick that up. I didn't, but I
Speaker 1: know she would. She's like, that's an upgrade. So she
Speaker 1: has like an old school TV, but her daughter doesn't
Speaker 1: have any student loans. That dichotomy was striking. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that because for her, it's a decision based on
Speaker 1: her values. And Katie, she values there being one less
Speaker 1: TV in the lane fill and she also at the
Speaker 1: same time values not being in student loan debt. And
Speaker 1: obviously this is what a countercultural as many Americans have
Speaker 1: the exact opposite kind of going on in their life. Yes,
Speaker 1: so what she's doing is just kind of reframing it
Speaker 1: for us and saying, like, I made a trade off here,
Speaker 1: and it's a trade off that most people aren't willing
Speaker 1: to make. But when you think about it logically, that
Speaker 1: idea of having a thicker TV in order to be
Speaker 1: able to pay down your student loans more quickly, that's
Speaker 1: really not that big of a sacrifice, right, Matt. I've
Speaker 1: got a flat screen TV. I've had it for over
Speaker 1: a decade, but I've only got one and I haven't
Speaker 1: upgraded too four K, even though it's kind of been
Speaker 1: something that I've considered. We've only got one TV as well,
Speaker 1: but it is a four K because when those TVs
Speaker 1: came out, I thought they were freaking awesome. And I
Speaker 1: think that's part of why Katie's motto is so difficult
Speaker 1: because it challenges purchases that we make, maybe without even
Speaker 1: thinking about them, or even if we do think about it,
Speaker 1: we think, oh man, that's old. It's you know, time
Speaker 1: for an upgrade. There's just habits and like the message
Speaker 1: of consumerism, they're fed to us almost daily, and whether
Speaker 1: it be through advertising or whether it be through just
Speaker 1: pressures of those around us. You see your friends, maybe
Speaker 1: make an upgrade, or there's just different pressures that we
Speaker 1: have placed on us, and they're not intentional. We just
Speaker 1: absorb what we see and what we're around. And I
Speaker 1: think that rampant consumerism, that's one of the main things
Speaker 1: that I feel that Katie is kind of focusing in on. Oh,
Speaker 1: it completely is. And I think when you draw a
Speaker 1: line in the sand, a firm line in the sand,
Speaker 1: it can be so helpful in helping you actually total
Speaker 1: line properly. When you're walking that messy middle like you
Speaker 1: and I do a lot of the time, Matt, it
Speaker 1: it can be hard. It's easier to rationalize a decision
Speaker 1: based on what you want right now. And so later
Speaker 1: on the show, we're gonna talk about kind of some
Speaker 1: tips of how you can actually still buy new things
Speaker 1: on occasion without sinking the whole ship. That's how we
Speaker 1: view this. But I gotta say I have mad respect
Speaker 1: for how Katie does it. And and she insists that
Speaker 1: buying used helps keep her and her family on a budget,
Speaker 1: and I see that, Man, it's working out for her
Speaker 1: for sure. They value a degree of financial freedom that
Speaker 1: most people could only dream of. Katie worked part time
Speaker 1: as a nurse while her husband was in school. She's
Speaker 1: raised kids, her daughter has graduated college without any student
Speaker 1: loan debt. I mean, those are amazing things that seem
Speaker 1: out of reach for most people today. And the fact
Speaker 1: that she has drawn this hard line and has stuck
Speaker 1: to it, that's what's allowed her that financial freedom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's one of her passions, Like, that's her goal is
Speaker 1: to help people to live on as little money as possible.
Speaker 1: And so, like we said, buying used it's more affordable,
Speaker 1: but also by default it's better for the environment. There's
Speaker 1: little to know packaging, and also it just doesn't trigger
Speaker 1: that manufacturing of new items. I think it's worth noting
Speaker 1: what Katie does buy new. She buys new underwear, socks,
Speaker 1: and perishables, right, And that's good because I don't know Matt.
Speaker 1: If you've ever been a good will, you're you're looking around.
Speaker 1: If you've looked at the underwear section, it's pretty growdy.
Speaker 1: And so is there an actual underwear section? Yes? There is, Yes,
Speaker 1: of course they sell underwear, They sell bras, they sell
Speaker 1: everything that someone might wear underneath their clothes and socks.
Speaker 1: I will draw the line in that area. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna wear your socks, still bother me, But underwear that's
Speaker 1: like a whole different thing. You would wear you socks
Speaker 1: if they're clean, okay, all right, like darn tough, or
Speaker 1: you know some of those nice like Vermont Will, like
Speaker 1: lifetime warranty socks, dude, I totally pick. Some of those
Speaker 1: are those often found at the thrift store. I bet
Speaker 1: they are okay, especially after the Mrie condo epidemic. If
Speaker 1: anybody could find them, Katie could because she is a
Speaker 1: master good will shopper. But her husband will buy new
Speaker 1: by the way, but let's get into her motto, Matt,
Speaker 1: it's use it up, wear it out, make it do
Speaker 1: or do without. And that's kind of the lens that
Speaker 1: she views all her purchases through. That's right, Jill, So
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and break that down some so use
Speaker 1: it up. And the way I interpret this is it's
Speaker 1: mostly about reducing waste. As a country, we throw out
Speaker 1: tons of freaking food. On average, we toss out one
Speaker 1: pound per person a day. That's insane. Yeah, that's an
Speaker 1: insane amount of food. It's estimated that we waste of
Speaker 1: all the food that's prepared for us as a country.
Speaker 1: I mean that is a huge amount, right, And so
Speaker 1: not only is there a waste from a financial standpoint,
Speaker 1: but just think about the impact environmentally of all the
Speaker 1: resources and money that went into even creating like that
Speaker 1: head of cabbage that you let go too long in
Speaker 1: your fridge that now you're tossing out. It's just a
Speaker 1: staggering amount of food. Yeah, so they use it up motto.
Speaker 1: It specifically makes me think that mixtime you think about
Speaker 1: going out to eat because there's nothing to eat in
Speaker 1: your house, go through your freezer and your fridge and
Speaker 1: your cabinet again, because I guarantee you most people can
Speaker 1: make a meal or two or three out of what
Speaker 1: they do have on hand, and so use it up.
Speaker 1: It's just a great thing to consider before you go
Speaker 1: off and and and make a purchase yea jule easily.
Speaker 1: And so the next piece in your motto is to
Speaker 1: wear it outs. And these are things that you already
Speaker 1: have that might be getting old. I'm thinking about clothes
Speaker 1: or even more extense of things like cars. Again, as
Speaker 1: consumers were constantly fed like the new, shiny stuff, when
Speaker 1: instead we have items that function perfectly but they're just
Speaker 1: a little bit shabby, you know. I think this one's
Speaker 1: a little bit related to the use it up, Like
Speaker 1: there are things that you already have and instead of
Speaker 1: replacing it, just use what you already have, or in
Speaker 1: this case wear it out. Specifically, Matt on the car example,
Speaker 1: people talk about driving a car until the quote unquote
Speaker 1: wheels fall off, And I think it is easy to
Speaker 1: get new car fever because your car has lost the
Speaker 1: new car sent or you start to have a couple
Speaker 1: of issues with it and you just get annoyed. You
Speaker 1: don't want to take your car into the mechanic and
Speaker 1: go through the hassle of getting it fixed. But the
Speaker 1: wear it out philosophy would say, you know what, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be much better for your budget if you do
Speaker 1: continue to hold onto that car and drive it until
Speaker 1: the wheels fall off. Because if you get locked into
Speaker 1: a new car loan or even just buy a nicer,
Speaker 1: newer used car, that's gonna have like massive ramifications on
Speaker 1: your monthly budget. For you is to come all right,
Speaker 1: The next part is make it do. And again this
Speaker 1: these are things that you already own, right, sort of
Speaker 1: like with wear it Out, Like you already have these things.
Speaker 1: But in this case, oftentimes you've identified a new problem
Speaker 1: and you think, oh, I need a new item, I
Speaker 1: need a new product to solve this problem. But chances
Speaker 1: are it's vice versa. Right, Why does that remind me
Speaker 1: of ice? Ice baby? What? You got a problem? I'll
Speaker 1: solve it? Like you think you need this new product
Speaker 1: to solve it. But honestly, man, I really think it's
Speaker 1: the reverse. That's actually true. Like you see a product
Speaker 1: and in your mind you create a problem that didn't
Speaker 1: already exist. You see something and you think, okay, how
Speaker 1: do I get my hands on that? Like how do
Speaker 1: I convince myself? How do I convince my spouse a
Speaker 1: significant other that this is something that we need in
Speaker 1: our life? And so you fabricate this problem, even maybe subconsciously.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're actively trying to undermine your own finances.
Speaker 1: But it's something that happens, and I think it's something
Speaker 1: we need to be aware of that we already have
Speaker 1: items and products in our in our life that work
Speaker 1: perfectly well, and instead we just need to make it
Speaker 1: do instead of purchased the next specialized product that will
Speaker 1: fix that specific problem. Yeah, Matt, what I think of
Speaker 1: when I think of this tenant other than ice ice baby,
Speaker 1: other than ice ice baby, is those infomercials that you'd
Speaker 1: see on late night television, especially for kitchen items. There's
Speaker 1: always a specialized new blender or rotisserie cooker or something
Speaker 1: like that that you don't quite own. And I'll admit
Speaker 1: that we own the instant pot and it's a great device,
Speaker 1: and spot's awesome. It's pretty great. I'm not gonna knock
Speaker 1: that it can actually eliminate a bunch of other devices,
Speaker 1: so it is a great one. But late night infomercials
Speaker 1: made a killing on essentially telling you that this problem
Speaker 1: existed in your life and that you couldn't make certain
Speaker 1: foods easily enough because you didn't have this glory device
Speaker 1: that was gonna come in and save the day and
Speaker 1: just make it so much easier for you. To make
Speaker 1: tacos or homemade sauces and soups or whatever it might be.
Speaker 1: So what you have to do is you have to
Speaker 1: make do with what you have in your kitchen. That
Speaker 1: new device or kitchen, countertop cooker, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1: It might be like fancy and and do some cool stuff,
Speaker 1: but you can completely make do with what you have.
Speaker 1: It's more of a mindset issue than it is a
Speaker 1: knee based issue. Yeah, and specifically, Man, I think this
Speaker 1: is definitely true when it comes to electronics. I'll go
Speaker 1: back to the TV example, because I've got the four KTV,
Speaker 1: and guess what, I thought My old TV was perfectly
Speaker 1: fine until that new TV came out and I saw it.
Speaker 1: And then I looked at my TV and I thought, man,
Speaker 1: this is Stevie's garbage, like, oh, the new one. And
Speaker 1: so for me like that technology. Once that came along,
Speaker 1: it pointed out the fact that whatever I used to
Speaker 1: have that worked perfectly fine, that I was very happy with.
Speaker 1: Maybe it wasn't quite sufficient in my case. I'll admit
Speaker 1: I came up with a perfectly lame excuse to talk
Speaker 1: us into buying a TV. I didn't finance it obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, I got something we could afford. However, did
Speaker 1: we really need that? No, but it was something that
Speaker 1: I convinced myself that we needed. So in this case,
Speaker 1: Matt Katie would say, make it do deal with the
Speaker 1: TV that you've got. It's perfectly fine. And the last
Speaker 1: tenant of her motto is do without. So in case
Speaker 1: you don't have something, it's also easy to convince yourself
Speaker 1: that you have a legitimate need and you have to
Speaker 1: buy that new thing. Even if you don't have an
Speaker 1: item that fits the bill that meets that need, you know,
Speaker 1: in all likelihood it's just a complete, the unnecessary purchase
Speaker 1: that doesn't really serve you in the long run, and
Speaker 1: so it might be better to borrow from a friend.
Speaker 1: But that again is another mental obstacle where people don't
Speaker 1: want to do without. We see other people that have things,
Speaker 1: and we justify it in our mind. We don't want
Speaker 1: to do without. We want to buy that new thing
Speaker 1: because we think that it's going to have a major
Speaker 1: impact on our personal happiness, and so instead of doing without,
Speaker 1: we make the purchase and screw our finances in the process.
Speaker 1: For me and personally, to make it, do and do
Speaker 1: without mottoes are much harder for me to accept. When
Speaker 1: I have something, I will use it up. When I
Speaker 1: have something, I will wear it out, Like I have
Speaker 1: no problems wearing something until it's threadbare or using a
Speaker 1: tool that's just falling apart, you know, like out in
Speaker 1: the yard. But when it comes to identifying like a
Speaker 1: new problem and for me, like the making it do
Speaker 1: and doing without, it's when I've identified, like when I
Speaker 1: in my brain, I've convinced myself that there's a problem,
Speaker 1: Like I'm a fixer, and so when I see something
Speaker 1: that I feel like needs fixing and there's a product
Speaker 1: that solves that, well, that's what I'm gonna gravitate towards doing.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have a tougher time with
Speaker 1: one of these compared to the other. I think the
Speaker 1: last tenant is the hard for me probably to do without,
Speaker 1: and that is I think more of like a psychological
Speaker 1: problem for me. It is coming to grips with the
Speaker 1: idea that that is not something that I need in
Speaker 1: my life. It's not a necessity, and I have to
Speaker 1: retrain my brain to think because I'm used to that
Speaker 1: easy purchase mentality. Because even though I'm cognizant of it.
Speaker 1: I feel like my brain has gotten used to how
Speaker 1: easy it is to purchase things in today's economy, and
Speaker 1: I need to consistently remind myself that I can do
Speaker 1: without that, I don't need that new thing. And and
Speaker 1: that's just a retraining thing that's been taking time for me,
Speaker 1: although I think I made progress. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of? That would be like super helpful, like a
Speaker 1: shot collar, Like a shot collar I'm thinking of, you know,
Speaker 1: like on the missile nuclear launch buttons you have to
Speaker 1: have like both keys. What if you and I had
Speaker 1: to approve each other's purchases and so like I couldn't
Speaker 1: just go on and make my own purchase. You had
Speaker 1: to be like, Matt, buddy, are you sure you want
Speaker 1: to make that purchase? And vice versa. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Then our friendship might have gone to a
Speaker 1: whole another weird level. But I mean, just some accountability,
Speaker 1: you know, like that way you can't just like on
Speaker 1: your own makeup purchase without thinking about it. And I
Speaker 1: mean that specifically reminds me though of of a Seinfeld
Speaker 1: episode where George is trying to break up with this
Speaker 1: girl and she says it's like a submarine where they
Speaker 1: both have to turn their keys to to initiate their
Speaker 1: weapons at the same time, and he's at one point
Speaker 1: he screams, Area's like turn your key, mora. And so
Speaker 1: it just makes me makes me think of that that
Speaker 1: if that's what it takes in order for me to
Speaker 1: make a purchase, there's definitely a lot more friction involved
Speaker 1: in that transaction. Right, sine field Man, how old are you?
Speaker 1: I feel like sinfel is such an old school thing,
Speaker 1: not that old, not as old as you. That's true.
Speaker 1: So Katie's motto, I love it right. Another awesome point
Speaker 1: that she made is how there's a misunderstanding of what
Speaker 1: it means to be environmentally responsible, and she says that
Speaker 1: we mistakenly think that it's something that you can buy
Speaker 1: your way into. And she get the example of, right,
Speaker 1: the organic bamboo floors, you know, and we're like, the
Speaker 1: floors that you had were perfectly fine. It makes me
Speaker 1: think of folks I even know who have made the
Speaker 1: purchase of like a new Prius where they're thinking, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be better for the environment, where they
Speaker 1: had maybe a ten year old vehicle that was perfectly fine,
Speaker 1: when in reality, the most environmentally friendly, and the most
Speaker 1: environmentally conscious thing they could have done was continue to
Speaker 1: drive that old vehicle, because when they purchased that new vehicle,
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier, it triggers the manufacturer of
Speaker 1: a new vehicle. And certainly there's a tipping point, right Like,
Speaker 1: if you're driving around like an original Hummer, chances are
Speaker 1: that's probably gonna be worse for the environment than maybe
Speaker 1: buying the nubrious. However, most folks aren't driving an h
Speaker 1: one Hummer. You need to consider the things that we
Speaker 1: already have and hanging onto those things instead of purchasing
Speaker 1: things that we might consider to be more environmentally friendly
Speaker 1: is the better way to go. Yeah, Matt, being green,
Speaker 1: being environmentally conscious, that's that's a good thing. But I
Speaker 1: feel like to a certain extent, going green has kind
Speaker 1: of taken on this alternative identity, and there's almost like
Speaker 1: a competition in our society for who can be the
Speaker 1: most green, and we wear it like a badge of honor.
Speaker 1: And there's certain things that just signal to other people
Speaker 1: that we are more green than everybody else, something like
Speaker 1: driving an electric car or a Prius. But Katie makes
Speaker 1: a great point if you're buying something new and perpetuating
Speaker 1: the consumeristic cycle just to buy something that's quote unquote green, Well,
Speaker 1: you're probably not making the most green choice. So it's
Speaker 1: important when we're talking about out not buying new stuff,
Speaker 1: to not justify buying new stuff because of the green
Speaker 1: factor when what you have right now is perfectly usable
Speaker 1: and it's actually more green just to continue the way
Speaker 1: things are. Yeah, Jue, I think it's worth mentioning how
Speaker 1: being green in the way that our media portrays it,
Speaker 1: you know, like the way you see it on commercials
Speaker 1: and the way you see on TV, like it's very pretty.
Speaker 1: But that way of being environmentally conscious is extremely expensive.
Speaker 1: Like just go to Instagram and Pinterest and you know,
Speaker 1: like the sort of green, natural lifestyle. It's not an
Speaker 1: affordable lifestyle. I don't see it even being that different
Speaker 1: than someone that has like the membership at a country
Speaker 1: club or or a golf course or something like that,
Speaker 1: Like that's just part of their identity. They're paying a
Speaker 1: lot of money for it. I think in the same way,
Speaker 1: we can get pulled into being green as part of
Speaker 1: our identity and lifestyle, and that's when it becomes part
Speaker 1: of our consumption. And when we make unwise financial decisions. So, Man,
Speaker 1: it turns out buying used is actually one of the
Speaker 1: best ways to help us avoid buying stuff new. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that and also give you some
Speaker 1: tips to help you if you struggle with just buying
Speaker 1: too much junk. Right after the break our jealous Land
Speaker 1: this plane of an episode, we're now going to talk
Speaker 1: about buying us. We're gonna talk about some tips and
Speaker 1: some additional thoughts. So buying used it allows us to
Speaker 1: purchase quality items that last longer and can be repaired.
Speaker 1: And this is the core of the debate between quality
Speaker 1: versus cheap or in this case, the cheap quantity of items.
Speaker 1: And Joel, the problem is is that the items that
Speaker 1: are manufactured today are not meant to be repaired. They're
Speaker 1: not meant to be passed down maybe from a father
Speaker 1: to a son or a mother to a daughter. Appliances
Speaker 1: in particular are not made the way they used to be.
Speaker 1: Like you had a plan to repair people, but today
Speaker 1: what happens when something breaks Typically it's not worth the time,
Speaker 1: it's not worth the parts that you would even put
Speaker 1: in it to get it up and working again. However,
Speaker 1: the decision still lies with us as consumers, so make
Speaker 1: sure when you are looking at things to purchase that
Speaker 1: you are considering quality, that you are considering how long
Speaker 1: will this thing actually last? Like she mentioned like the
Speaker 1: particle board stuff. We know know that the particle board
Speaker 1: stuff from my Kea. It's good for a season, and
Speaker 1: even if you're trying to move it from one room
Speaker 1: to another, like it may not last that move. Been there,
Speaker 1: done that exactly. Yeah. So I think that idea of
Speaker 1: buying quality used goods for a cheaper price instead of
Speaker 1: buying a poorly manufactured new item, that's a great way
Speaker 1: to kind of think about your purchases, and even if
Speaker 1: you do decide to buy new, maybe spending more for
Speaker 1: something that's higher quality that you can keep around longer. Sorry, Katie,
Speaker 1: I know that's not how you roll, But Matt, I
Speaker 1: become more okay with paying a higher price for an
Speaker 1: item up front that I plan on having around for
Speaker 1: a long time and just buying less trendy goods that
Speaker 1: I'm not tempted to replace sooner. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: better for the way I think about buying goods, and
Speaker 1: I think it's better for the environment as well. Whether
Speaker 1: I'm buying a used item or a new item, trying
Speaker 1: to find that quality good that's worth my money that
Speaker 1: I'm going to have in my life for a long
Speaker 1: time to come. Yeah, and I do think. I mean,
Speaker 1: what Katy would argue though, is that you can get
Speaker 1: quality to just make sure you're buying it used. There's
Speaker 1: so much money that you can save by doing that.
Speaker 1: And she called out our Frugal Versus Cheap episode, which
Speaker 1: is a classic, but she kind of mentioned how buying
Speaker 1: used is sort of that third option, how you can
Speaker 1: get those quality goods for that cheap price without appearing cheap.
Speaker 1: And it's so true, like that is the problem is
Speaker 1: oftentimes people don't want to look cheap. They don't want
Speaker 1: to be the cheap guy, they don't want to be
Speaker 1: the cheap girl. And buying used to sort of this cheat,
Speaker 1: you know, it's this work around where you are able
Speaker 1: to get the quality stuff for that cheap price. And
Speaker 1: Joel you mentioned like you'd be less tempted to replace
Speaker 1: like a trendy item. You know, another benefit is not
Speaker 1: getting hit with that depreciation of buying that new item.
Speaker 1: In particular with cars, we've talked about that how quickly
Speaker 1: cars depreciate over the first five years. I would say
Speaker 1: that's the case with the items that we buy, they'd
Speaker 1: appreciate like crazy. So you know what, let somebody else
Speaker 1: take that financial hit and you can show up a
Speaker 1: couple of years later and by the item used for
Speaker 1: way less. All right, let's get into some practical steps
Speaker 1: that people can take in order to kind of help
Speaker 1: them along in this process. The first thing to consider
Speaker 1: is any way that you can avoid the temptation to
Speaker 1: buy new that's gonna help you out in the long run.
Speaker 1: It's people that you follow on Instagram that tempts you
Speaker 1: to buy new clothes or beauty supplies or whatever it
Speaker 1: might be. Consider un following those people or just getting
Speaker 1: on Instagram less often. If you find yourself running to
Speaker 1: Amazon to do a one click purchase, maybe take the
Speaker 1: app off your phone and consider ditching that Amazon Prime membership.
Speaker 1: Anyway that you can avoid the temptation in your life
Speaker 1: to buy new, I think it's worth considering. And in particular,
Speaker 1: man if it's like at one time use item, if
Speaker 1: it's something that you're probably hardly ever going to use,
Speaker 1: consider borrowing it. I recently did this in the neighborhood
Speaker 1: with a tiller. I needed to tell some of the
Speaker 1: backyard because with the renovation that kind of got chewed
Speaker 1: up back there, and I wanted to get some green
Speaker 1: stuff growing. And I just threw it out there in
Speaker 1: the neighborhood, and a neighbor right down the street said, yeah,
Speaker 1: come on buy, it'll be out there for you. I
Speaker 1: got to meet a new incredibly generous neighbor. Well he's
Speaker 1: not new, he's been around for like twenty years, but
Speaker 1: now you know, I'm he's new to you. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: new to me. And now he's a buddy. And so
Speaker 1: I didn't have to buy this item that I would
Speaker 1: probably rarely ever use. So yeah, I look to borrow
Speaker 1: whenever you can. It's also smart to create an enforce
Speaker 1: a delayed per just rule. So this has been successful
Speaker 1: for lots of folks when they're trying to eliminate their
Speaker 1: habit of buying new stuff. Think about creating a rule
Speaker 1: where when you have an item that you're really excited
Speaker 1: to buy, we'll take twenty four hours. Some people institute
Speaker 1: a four day rule or a one week rule, you know,
Speaker 1: whenever it takes to kind of help you assess a
Speaker 1: buying decision so that you're not buying on a whim.
Speaker 1: But if you know that you are actually going to
Speaker 1: buy something, consider used items and you can do that
Speaker 1: via different apps like offer Up. You can use the
Speaker 1: marketplace on Facebook. We've mentioned that one more recently because
Speaker 1: it's just gotten to be such a robust form where
Speaker 1: you can purchase used items. But then obviously there's eBay.
Speaker 1: It's because Classic in eBay specifically is a great alternative
Speaker 1: to Amazon. If you're going to buy quality stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just as easy to hop over to eBay into
Speaker 1: a quick search as it is Amazon. If that's how
Speaker 1: you're used to purchasing your stuff. Also, consider going Katie
Speaker 1: Woke Stanley style and go to your local goodwill or
Speaker 1: thrift store. I feel like I find the coolest plaid
Speaker 1: shirts at the thrift store all the time. And if
Speaker 1: you're into plaid like I am, and the third store
Speaker 1: is like the perfect place for you to go. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: Are there more or less plaid shirts in Portland than
Speaker 1: there are in Atlanta? Are they all snatched up because
Speaker 1: you're in Portland? Or are they all being discarded because
Speaker 1: there's just so many of them? That's a great question.
Speaker 1: I'll have to reach out to Katie and get the
Speaker 1: answer on that one. Also, consider avoiding sales altogether if
Speaker 1: they cause you to spend more. I know this was
Speaker 1: my mentality for a long time. If I found something
Speaker 1: on sale, I'd buy it because I thought I was
Speaker 1: saving money, But usually I ended up spending more because
Speaker 1: I bought more crap that I didn't need. And so
Speaker 1: if that is your mentality, if you jump on sales
Speaker 1: and you're excited about off all the time, well chances
Speaker 1: are you're buying stuff that you don't need. With that
Speaker 1: kind of Black Friday mentality, that's when you would buy
Speaker 1: like six huge boxes of cheese it's right, and they'd
Speaker 1: show up, show up on the doorstep. That might have
Speaker 1: happened one time, and you know what, cheese it's aren't
Speaker 1: good for you. So maybe I should have stayed away
Speaker 1: from that altogether. Yeah, junk definitely applies to that purchase
Speaker 1: as well. Right, that was the old Joel though, come on,
Speaker 1: don't judge. And then Matt, the last tip to help
Speaker 1: you avoid buying new stuff is to remember your bigger goals.
Speaker 1: That's your why behind money. We did an episode on
Speaker 1: that quite a while back. But thinking about those bigger
Speaker 1: money goals can help you stave off those smaller purchases,
Speaker 1: and especially those new purchases that you might make on
Speaker 1: a whim. And so we're working on that actually with
Speaker 1: my five year old right now, she wants to buy
Speaker 1: a jump rope, and so she's got a few dollars
Speaker 1: in the piggy bank, but we're really trying to help
Speaker 1: her understand that if she doesn't spend it now on
Speaker 1: smaller stuff, but she can save up and she can
Speaker 1: have that jump rope. But if she spends it on
Speaker 1: little knickknacks, now, it's gonna take a lot longer before
Speaker 1: she ends up getting that jump rope you want. So
Speaker 1: in the same way, if you can remind yourself, if
Speaker 1: you can write down, if you can put it in
Speaker 1: front of your face, those bigger goals that you have,
Speaker 1: it's gonna help you have the willpower to avoid those
Speaker 1: smaller purchases that will make it much harder to achieve
Speaker 1: those ultimate goals that you have. Well, you mentioned that
Speaker 1: you're working on that with Selma, with your daughter. I'm
Speaker 1: working on that with myself specifically. I've been looking at
Speaker 1: bikes lately and I'm trying to convince myself or remind
Speaker 1: myself that no, this isn't something I need. Right, my
Speaker 1: desire to have a bike isn't greater than my desire
Speaker 1: to not be stressed and to work more, because I
Speaker 1: think I need to earn some more money to pay
Speaker 1: for that bike. And let's be clear, you have multiple bikes,
Speaker 1: so it's not like, yeah, I've got a couple of bikes.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's the one bike that you would
Speaker 1: help you get around town. It's like the third bike
Speaker 1: that would be another one in your arsenal exactly. It's
Speaker 1: it's a bike that would allow me to do some
Speaker 1: very specific things and I've convinced myself that I need it.
Speaker 1: But again, just like you said with your daughter, it's
Speaker 1: the same thing as for us as adults. I mean
Speaker 1: keeping our larger goals in mind. And for me, that's
Speaker 1: being less stressed about money. For us, we're still working
Speaker 1: on this renovation, like we've got to get this thing
Speaker 1: knocked out and wrapped up as well. So yeah, keeping
Speaker 1: those larger goals in mind is is so key, and
Speaker 1: I do that for myself as well. Yeah, Matt, I
Speaker 1: need those reminders in my life too, write It's not
Speaker 1: just me teaching my daughter, it's me teaching myself at
Speaker 1: the same time. And so, yeah, I want to buy
Speaker 1: less new stuff. I'm encouraged by Katie. I mean, I
Speaker 1: really am too. Yeah, I just want to buy fewer things.
Speaker 1: It's been said that the things that you own ultimately
Speaker 1: end up owning you, and I feel like that's the case.
Speaker 1: And the fewer things I buy, the better I am
Speaker 1: at saying no to new purchases. The more control I
Speaker 1: feel like I gained over my own life and ownership.
Speaker 1: I feel like I have over the direction that I'm
Speaker 1: headed in, not just financially, but it's just those things
Speaker 1: just clutter everything up. Nice. All right, I'm gonna now
Speaker 1: take us back to the beer again. We're drinking the
Speaker 1: Aisy Dream Sickle Double I p A, which is my
Speaker 1: Arizona Wilderness Brewing. Would you think of this beer, man? Yeah? Man,
Speaker 1: this reminded me of We've got this kind of old
Speaker 1: school Hamburger hot dog kind of place I knew you're
Speaker 1: gonna say, in downtown Atlanta. It's called the Varsity, and
Speaker 1: they've got this drink called the Frosted Orange, and it
Speaker 1: kind of tasted like that in my mind. Like it
Speaker 1: it just kind of brought me back to childhood a
Speaker 1: little bit drinking a beer, which sounds weird because I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be drinking beer as a kid, But it
Speaker 1: reminded me of the frosted orange and it totally has
Speaker 1: that kind of orange cream cycle flavor going on really nicely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well the reason it does is this I p A
Speaker 1: has It is brewed with lactose, which is milk sugar,
Speaker 1: so it gives it that creaminess right to where it
Speaker 1: almost has that ice cream like texture and even flavor
Speaker 1: on this one because it has vanilla in it as well,
Speaker 1: so it really is like it's this orange beer mixed
Speaker 1: with ice cream. But yeah, I love that it had
Speaker 1: that vanilla and it almost felt like it had a
Speaker 1: touch of spice because of the sort of sharpness maybe
Speaker 1: from the orange, like they have this edge to it.
Speaker 1: Super delicious and yeah, we to thank Brandon again, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for sending this beer. And don't any
Speaker 1: to the show. All right, Matt, let's get to our
Speaker 1: final thoughts. And you and I were not necessarily convinced
Speaker 1: that we should never ever ever buy anything new ever again.
Speaker 1: But I will say, I'm so impressed by Katie's efforts
Speaker 1: in this. Since two thousand seven, for twelve years, she
Speaker 1: hasn't bought anything new except for literally like underwear and perishables.
Speaker 1: And to me, that's just uplifting to see someone creating
Speaker 1: a hard line in the sand. And you know what,
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, that might be what we need,
Speaker 1: that kick in the pants to create some hard lines.
Speaker 1: And that's not only going to be a help to
Speaker 1: the kind of environmental concerns by the over consumption that
Speaker 1: happens in our country, but at the same time just
Speaker 1: a massive help to our financial future. Joel and I
Speaker 1: like that you said kick in the pants. We say
Speaker 1: that often, but just being challenged, and that's how I
Speaker 1: view Katie's message, just just it truly is a challenge,
Speaker 1: and I want to end it with her motto, which
Speaker 1: is use it up, wear it out, make it do
Speaker 1: or do without. You don't have to kind of cold
Speaker 1: turkey stop buying anything new, but yeah, at least consider
Speaker 1: what you can get used to. Really be challenged to
Speaker 1: buy fewer things all together. Yeah, Matt, I love it
Speaker 1: when our episodes challenge us as much as they do
Speaker 1: our listeners. And so yeah, this one was definitely that.
Speaker 1: So thanks again to Katie walk Stanley for coming on
Speaker 1: the show. Her website if you want to find out more,
Speaker 1: is the Non Consumer Advocate dot com. And speaking of websites,
Speaker 1: if you want the show notes for this episode, you
Speaker 1: can go to our website which is how to Money
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you have found this episode helpful,
Speaker 1: we would love if you were to leave a review.
Speaker 1: You can hop over to Apple podcast and mash that
Speaker 1: five stars and you know what it's worth mentioning to
Speaker 1: Katie was the very first reviewer that we ever had
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Katie, we really appreciate all your support
Speaker 1: from the very beginning before anyone believed in us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks so much, Katie and Matt. Until next time, Best
Speaker 1: friends out, Best friends Out, M M.