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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing why you should stop buying new

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Speaker 1: stuff with money pro Katie Wolke Stanley Ye. Last episode,

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Speaker 1: we talked about some ways to get great customer service

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Speaker 1: and how one of the ways is to make sure

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Speaker 1: you research a company or a retailer ahead of time,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of times we do that with reviews. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out that these reviews aren't all legit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's so true, Matt. I think we're living in a

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Speaker 1: time where reviews it's harder to tell the legitimacy of

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Speaker 1: those reviews online. Right, So it's not that all online

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Speaker 1: reviews can't be trusted, but we do have to be

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Speaker 1: careful when we're especially on particular items, Right, that's the

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Speaker 1: place where fake reviews are most frequently found. Yeah, certain

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Speaker 1: items at there to highlight or boost sales for. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we came across an article recently where the FTC announced

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit against an online retailer on Amazon for paying

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Speaker 1: for fake reviews, and as they looked into it, it it

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Speaker 1: seemed like there's a lot of this going on. There's

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Speaker 1: at least a lot of suspect reviews going on, and

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Speaker 1: so some of the telltale signs they said to look

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Speaker 1: out for when you're looking at these reviews is to

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Speaker 1: look out for reviews that have broken English, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of these different companies are kind of farmed overseas

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Speaker 1: and the reviews are kind of half baked. Another sign

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Speaker 1: is that if there is a singular reviewer, So if

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Speaker 1: you see a great review and then you click on

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Speaker 1: it and it turns out they've got thousands of reviews

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Speaker 1: that they've left recently for different companies or maybe they're

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Speaker 1: all reviews in the same industry, that's also a red flag.

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Speaker 1: And then lastly, look for retailers that have a surge

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Speaker 1: of positive reviews, all within a very short period of time. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: keep a lookout for all of those things to avoid

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Speaker 1: some of those those fake bogus reviews. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes Matt, people rely on just that kind of that

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Speaker 1: quick look to see what the star rating is for

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Speaker 1: a product on Amazon or whatever they're shopping on, and

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Speaker 1: it helps actually to dig in just a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and you can tell by reading a few reviews kind

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Speaker 1: of the people that have actually used the product, that

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Speaker 1: are familiar with it. That seem to have a working

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Speaker 1: knowledge of what they're actually reviewing. And I think if

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Speaker 1: you just go by that star level, you might get

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Speaker 1: letters straight because there could be a lot of fake

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Speaker 1: reviews buried in there. So yeah, go down and actually

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Speaker 1: read some of the reviews, especially if it's a bigger purchase.

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Speaker 1: And one other way you can avoid kind of getting

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Speaker 1: taken by a bunch of fake reviews on a product

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Speaker 1: and thinking it's excellent and making the purchase. There's a

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Speaker 1: website called fake spot dot com, so check that out.

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Speaker 1: We'll we'll post that in the show notes. But yes,

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Speaker 1: so when you cut and paste that link from Amazon, Walmart,

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Speaker 1: wherever you're shopping into fake spot, it gives you kind

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Speaker 1: of a grade. And for instance, on an item I

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Speaker 1: just put in here, Matt, it says Ora Engine detected.

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Speaker 1: In general, the reviewers have a suspiciously positive sentiment. So

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Speaker 1: I guess this, uh, this AI is just intuitive enough

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Speaker 1: to know too too happy exactly exactly. So apparently of

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Speaker 1: the reviews are reliable on this one. So that's why

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Speaker 1: it's a great of f and uh so, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: just kind of helpful, a little bit of AI in

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Speaker 1: your life, right to help you outspot those fake reviews. Yeah, Joel,

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Speaker 1: that AI or there's different algorithms. They're they're helpful, right,

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Speaker 1: they're different tools that you can use when you're looking

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Speaker 1: at purchases. I know on Yelp specifically, they have different

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Speaker 1: reviews that are hidden because they think, oh, this person

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Speaker 1: doesn't have enough reviews. Like they've taken steps in order

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Speaker 1: to try to keep some of those bogus reviews from

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Speaker 1: having too large of an effects on a business. But

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, it comes down to an individual,

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Speaker 1: because us as consumers are much smarter than any algorithm

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Speaker 1: that's out there, at least currently, and so yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: up to you as a consumer. I don't know, Mat,

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Speaker 1: I've met some robots that are smarter than me already,

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Speaker 1: so I am a little worried. So you know what

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Speaker 1: we need to do. While we're thinking about AI taking

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Speaker 1: over jobs, let's step back and let's enjoy one of

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Speaker 1: the finer things in life, a nice craft beer. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and listener Brandon sent a beer called a Zy Dreamsicle

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Speaker 1: Double I p A by a brewery called Arizona Wilderness,

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Speaker 1: and Matt, I've heard fantastic things about this brewery. Never

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Speaker 1: had any of their beers until I literally just sipped

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Speaker 1: this a second ago. Sorry, Yeah, you all cheat and

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Speaker 1: have like a tiny sip of the beer before we

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Speaker 1: actually announce it. And I'm the purest and I like

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Speaker 1: to sit by and patiently wait so you can just

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Speaker 1: look at the can art or something like that. Well,

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Speaker 1: well I have a sip. Well you enjoy your rule following,

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Speaker 1: and I'll enjoy my beer. Smells delicious, I know that,

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Speaker 1: but this is uh double I p a with Arizona oranges,

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Speaker 1: vanilla lactose and sit her hops. So this beer is

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Speaker 1: supposed to taste like an orange dream sickle. And you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm not gonna spoil it yet. We'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what we think of this beer at the end

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Speaker 1: of the show. We're not gonna spoil it, but you

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Speaker 1: can put your money on it. Sure does. Dang it.

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Speaker 1: You spoiled it all right, Matt, onto the topic at hand.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about not buying new stuff in money pro

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Speaker 1: Katie walk Stanley turned in her five minutes of wisdom

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Speaker 1: that I'm super excited to share with everyone. She is

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Speaker 1: the founder of the site non Consumer Advocate dot com.

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Speaker 1: Katie is super cool. She writes about ways to avoid

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Speaker 1: buying new stuff, making do with what you've got, and

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Speaker 1: in particular often her affinity for good will. She's a

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Speaker 1: complete nerd for good Will. I feel like if you

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Speaker 1: follow her her on Instagram, you're seeing a lot of

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Speaker 1: good will shots much all the time, like her holding

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Speaker 1: something smiling. She sells a lot of it too. She's

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Speaker 1: got the side hustle going on right, and she sells

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Speaker 1: a lot of the nicer items that she knows that

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Speaker 1: she can find in a good will. She knows she

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Speaker 1: can sell those online. That's kind of like her side hustle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: make an extra buck. So she's a nurse that likes

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Speaker 1: to shop at Goodwill and make a buck on the side.

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Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah. Something else I like about her

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Speaker 1: is she is not afraid of picking stuff up off

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Speaker 1: of the sidewalk. So I am all about the what

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Speaker 1: I call the curb alert. So just free stuff. I've

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Speaker 1: picked up microwave before, like it was pretty new. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like nasty grain, boots, building supplies. You know. I've

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Speaker 1: scored all sorts of stuff on the side of the children. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if they're just sitting there. However, she takes it to

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Speaker 1: like a whole another level. Recently, she posted a picture

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Speaker 1: of a soggy towel on the sidewalk like it was wet,

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Speaker 1: like a wet towel. And we live in Atlanta and

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Speaker 1: we see these things and those are things you just

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Speaker 1: do not pick up. No, no, I don't. But she

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Speaker 1: has no fear. And I think part of it is

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Speaker 1: because she's a nurse. She's like, whatever, I've seen it all,

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Speaker 1: I've touched it all. And yeah, man, she'll pick up

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Speaker 1: like a wet, saggy towel off the side of the road,

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Speaker 1: like in the gutter. It's like that thing home and

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Speaker 1: clean it and throwing the dryer and it's like nice

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Speaker 1: and warm and fluffy looking. Just by looking at it,

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Speaker 1: I can tell it smells good. Yeah, her commitment is enviable.

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Speaker 1: It's really impressive. The reason, Matt, we wanted to cover

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Speaker 1: this subject today is because there is a massive problem

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Speaker 1: in our country. And the problem is that the friction

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Speaker 1: of buying new stuff has become almost non existent. It's

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Speaker 1: so easy, there's one click to purchase on Amazon. We

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Speaker 1: just buy something new when we think about it, or

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Speaker 1: when older thing wears out or breaks. We are a

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Speaker 1: society that loves to see new things show up on

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Speaker 1: our doorstep. In Chinese packaging and Matt there's this phenomenon

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Speaker 1: even where somebody orders something on Amazon, they forget what

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Speaker 1: they've ordered. It feels like almost like an unboxing video

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Speaker 1: for them because they don't even remember what they purchased

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Speaker 1: two days ago when it shows up on Prime. I

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Speaker 1: think that's just indicative of the fact that we buy

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Speaker 1: too much new stuff. Not only is that a budget killer,

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Speaker 1: but it has ramifications to go even beyond that. Chedel

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Speaker 1: I mean, over consumption has always been an issue when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the environ because of the production of

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Speaker 1: new goods that has to happen because all that old

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Speaker 1: stuff has to go somewhere, right, And recently it's not

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Speaker 1: only affecting the environment, but again it's kind of going

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Speaker 1: back to to the dollar, but it's swinging back again

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Speaker 1: and hurting US as a country financially, and not just

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Speaker 1: the US but just other countries in Europe as well.

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Speaker 1: But that's the fact that recycling is becoming too expensive.

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Speaker 1: Fairly recently, China is just is not accepting recyclables anymore.

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Speaker 1: They used to be the number one buyer of recyclables,

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Speaker 1: and that's just no longer the case invisible. Actually, do

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Speaker 1: you listen to them? I don't. Yeah, that's they're one

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Speaker 1: of my favorites. I've heard they're awesome. I really need

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Speaker 1: to Roman Mars. He's got that deep, soothing voice, super dramatic.

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Speaker 1: Kate King standum, but but I like him a lot.

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Speaker 1: But they did a really good story. And what China

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Speaker 1: rolled out they called it Operation National Sword, and essentially

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Speaker 1: it was them saying no, we're not going to take

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Speaker 1: your recyclables anymore because of just how they want to

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Speaker 1: portray themselves as a country, not just as this country

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Speaker 1: that accepts everyone's garbage, basically where they melt down all

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Speaker 1: the plastic and turn it into plastic pellets that get

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Speaker 1: to be made into new toys, things like that. From

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Speaker 1: a financial standpoint, it's becoming a problem again where for years,

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Speaker 1: for decades, it was affordable to consider recycling as just

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Speaker 1: the easy solution, but unfortunately that's just not the case anymore. Yes, so,

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Speaker 1: so many local municipalities and governments are having trouble knowing

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Speaker 1: what to do with everything that you put in your

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Speaker 1: blue recycling bin or whatever color you're recycling bin is

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Speaker 1: because there's no money to be made. On that recycling anymore.

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Speaker 1: And so we as humans have to be thoughtful about

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Speaker 1: the stuff we're buying, not only for the environment, but

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Speaker 1: for how it impacts our personal finances. And so let's

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Speaker 1: hear from Katie Woke Stanley. She's got some really good

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Speaker 1: thoughts for us on how to stop buying new stuff.

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Speaker 1: Just to reminder, every Money Pro episode we bring our

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Speaker 1: Money Pro on for five minutes of distilled wisdom. Let's

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Speaker 1: hear Katie's Now, Hey, Matt, hey, Joel, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for having me on your terrific podcast. Now, before

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Speaker 1: I get started, I figured I should be enjoying a

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Speaker 1: nice craft beer, especially since I'm from Portland, Oregon, which

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Speaker 1: is just home to a million craft breweries. But instead

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Speaker 1: mm hmm, I will be enjoying a fine tableaud because

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Speaker 1: that's how I roll. Now. I made a decision in

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven to stop buying new stuff. This has

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Speaker 1: evolved into what I call non consumerism, and it encompasses frugality, minimalism,

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Speaker 1: zero waste, and big picture financial goal sittings. A good

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Speaker 1: example of this is my TV is about four ft thick,

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Speaker 1: and yet my daughter just graduated from college without any

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Speaker 1: student loan debt. The tagline of my blog is use

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Speaker 1: it up, wear it out, make it do or do without,

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Speaker 1: And that's just kind of how I think about my

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Speaker 1: purchases that my family makes. So not only does buying

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Speaker 1: use keep my family on budget, but it also benefits

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Speaker 1: the environment as our purchases usually come without any packaging,

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Speaker 1: and most importantly, our purchases don't trigger the manufacture are

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Speaker 1: a brand new items. And this is really important to

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Speaker 1: me as I feel that over manufacture of consumer items

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Speaker 1: is a global environmental crisis and that if we all

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Speaker 1: really thought a little more critically about our own purchases,

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Speaker 1: that we could start making a dent in this. By

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Speaker 1: examining our own roles as consumers, we can take control

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Speaker 1: of how our purchases do affect the world we live in.

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Speaker 1: For example, many of my household belongings and my house

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Speaker 1: is fine, it's lovely, are things that I've dragged home

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Speaker 1: from free paths in my neighborhood or I got through

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Speaker 1: my local buy nothing group. Something you should check to

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Speaker 1: see if you have in your area things I got

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Speaker 1: for free, hand me downs, thrift store stuff. People often

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Speaker 1: misunderstand being environmentally responsible as something that you can buy

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Speaker 1: your way into the idea that you can just get

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Speaker 1: rid of the things that you have because oh the

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Speaker 1: these aren't organic bamboo, when in fact, the most environmentally

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Speaker 1: responsible choice you can make is to just kind of

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Speaker 1: make do with what you already own. It's maybe not

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Speaker 1: as pretty on Pinterest or Instagram, but it should be considered.

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Speaker 1: When you buy used, you give a second life to

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Speaker 1: discarded and unwanted items, and since you're choosing secondhand, you

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Speaker 1: can afford to buy higher quality things that last longer,

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Speaker 1: are less trendy, which means that they're not going to

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Speaker 1: appear outdated so quickly, and they can be repaired. A

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Speaker 1: solid wood item can be glued, can be sanded, can

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Speaker 1: be refinished. That particle board thing that you got not

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Speaker 1: so much. Once it's broken, it's kind of broken. Then

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Speaker 1: that's it, and then it's off to the landfill. Now,

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Speaker 1: you did an episode on How to Money about cheap

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Speaker 1: versus frugal, and it was a great episode and it

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Speaker 1: really gave me a lot to food for thought, and

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Speaker 1: I want to just respond to it, but I feel

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Speaker 1: that there's a third choice in there. There's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a false dichotomy, and that is where non

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Speaker 1: consumerism comes to play, and that is that third choice.

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Speaker 1: And because when you are by used, you are getting

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Speaker 1: things really cheap, but you have things that are better quality.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I want to talk about this is

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Speaker 1: I feel that a lot of people dig themselves into

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Speaker 1: financial holes, living beyond their means, get themselves into debt

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Speaker 1: that's very hard to get out of once you're in it.

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Speaker 1: Because people don't want the stigma of appearing cheap. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to drive the car that's kind of scrappy

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Speaker 1: looking and maybe has some dance, although it may still

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Speaker 1: be completely functional. So I am here to stand up

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Speaker 1: for the cheap people. Non consumerism allows you to step

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Speaker 1: back from those societal expectations, to not keep up with

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Speaker 1: those dreaded jones is. Take care of what you own

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Speaker 1: or pay, are things when they break, Steer clear of

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Speaker 1: those trends, and except that your stuff might not be

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Speaker 1: a perfect is great is fine too. In other words,

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Speaker 1: use it up, wear it out, make it do or

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Speaker 1: do without. Thank you Joel and Matt for having me

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Speaker 1: on your podcasts. I've loved every episode. Keep it coming

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Speaker 1: all right, Joel, Katie, she's dropping that poor Landian knowledge

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Speaker 1: on us. I love it, and I love her motto

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Speaker 1: to write, use it up, wear it out, make it

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Speaker 1: do or do without. And after the break, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we're gonna unpack. Matt. We're back.

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Speaker 1: As we wait into this topic of not buying new stuff,

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Speaker 1: there was this awesome quote I had recently read from

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Speaker 1: Maya Angelou and she said, we need much less than

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Speaker 1: we think we need. And I feel like Katie just

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Speaker 1: kind of set us up to think through this idea

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Speaker 1: of not buying new stuff just a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: I think that title probably of this episode, even just

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Speaker 1: people seeing that before they click to play, was kind

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Speaker 1: of like, whatter Matt and Joel going to get into

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Speaker 1: here today? Are they actually going to advocate not buying

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Speaker 1: new stuff? And I feel like as we get through

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Speaker 1: this episode, you and I will talk about our own

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Speaker 1: personal take on how we view buying new stuff. But

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Speaker 1: more than anything, I feel like Katie's influence in how

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Speaker 1: she thinks about buying new stuff is just really helpful.

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Speaker 1: We don't all necessarily have to put a ban on

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Speaker 1: buying new stuff completely, and I know that that's not

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Speaker 1: the direction I'm headed in, but I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: unpack what she had to say, because it is changing

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Speaker 1: the way I think about buying new stuff, and that

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Speaker 1: is helpful, all right, So let's start at the top.

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Speaker 1: She mentioned how in two thousand and seven she stopped

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Speaker 1: buying new stuff, and she calls it non consumerism, which

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Speaker 1: is a little tongue in cheek, right, like you hear

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Speaker 1: of a consumer advocate. It's like, oh, this is something

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Speaker 1: that's that's for me, that's they're on my side. But

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Speaker 1: she's kind of turning it on its head a little

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Speaker 1: bit calling it non consumerism. I love that, just from

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Speaker 1: the very start. I love that. An example she gave

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Speaker 1: was how she has like an old school four ft

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Speaker 1: thick TV is what she said, What are this called

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Speaker 1: like CRT monitors? Is that like with the tube? Maybe? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the tube television, that's exact, and those things are incredibly heavy.

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Speaker 1: I I actually literally on the way home from work

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Speaker 1: today past one sitting on the side of the road,

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Speaker 1: and I thought of Katie because I was like, I

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Speaker 1: know she would pick that up. I didn't, but I

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Speaker 1: know she would. She's like, that's an upgrade. So she

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Speaker 1: has like an old school TV, but her daughter doesn't

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Speaker 1: have any student loans. That dichotomy was striking. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: love that because for her, it's a decision based on

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Speaker 1: her values. And Katie, she values there being one less

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Speaker 1: TV in the lane fill and she also at the

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Speaker 1: same time values not being in student loan debt. And

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Speaker 1: obviously this is what a countercultural as many Americans have

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Speaker 1: the exact opposite kind of going on in their life. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so what she's doing is just kind of reframing it

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Speaker 1: for us and saying, like, I made a trade off here,

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Speaker 1: and it's a trade off that most people aren't willing

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Speaker 1: to make. But when you think about it logically, that

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Speaker 1: idea of having a thicker TV in order to be

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Speaker 1: able to pay down your student loans more quickly, that's

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Speaker 1: really not that big of a sacrifice, right, Matt. I've

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Speaker 1: got a flat screen TV. I've had it for over

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Speaker 1: a decade, but I've only got one and I haven't

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Speaker 1: upgraded too four K, even though it's kind of been

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Speaker 1: something that I've considered. We've only got one TV as well,

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Speaker 1: but it is a four K because when those TVs

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Speaker 1: came out, I thought they were freaking awesome. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's part of why Katie's motto is so difficult

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Speaker 1: because it challenges purchases that we make, maybe without even

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Speaker 1: thinking about them, or even if we do think about it,

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Speaker 1: we think, oh man, that's old. It's you know, time

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Speaker 1: for an upgrade. There's just habits and like the message

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Speaker 1: of consumerism, they're fed to us almost daily, and whether

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Speaker 1: it be through advertising or whether it be through just

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Speaker 1: pressures of those around us. You see your friends, maybe

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Speaker 1: make an upgrade, or there's just different pressures that we

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Speaker 1: have placed on us, and they're not intentional. We just

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Speaker 1: absorb what we see and what we're around. And I

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Speaker 1: think that rampant consumerism, that's one of the main things

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Speaker 1: that I feel that Katie is kind of focusing in on. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it completely is. And I think when you draw a

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Speaker 1: line in the sand, a firm line in the sand,

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Speaker 1: it can be so helpful in helping you actually total

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Speaker 1: line properly. When you're walking that messy middle like you

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Speaker 1: and I do a lot of the time, Matt, it

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Speaker 1: it can be hard. It's easier to rationalize a decision

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Speaker 1: based on what you want right now. And so later

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Speaker 1: on the show, we're gonna talk about kind of some

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Speaker 1: tips of how you can actually still buy new things

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Speaker 1: on occasion without sinking the whole ship. That's how we

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Speaker 1: view this. But I gotta say I have mad respect

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Speaker 1: for how Katie does it. And and she insists that

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Speaker 1: buying used helps keep her and her family on a budget,

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Speaker 1: and I see that, Man, it's working out for her

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Speaker 1: for sure. They value a degree of financial freedom that

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Speaker 1: most people could only dream of. Katie worked part time

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Speaker 1: as a nurse while her husband was in school. She's

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Speaker 1: raised kids, her daughter has graduated college without any student

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Speaker 1: loan debt. I mean, those are amazing things that seem

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Speaker 1: out of reach for most people today. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that she has drawn this hard line and has stuck

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Speaker 1: to it, that's what's allowed her that financial freedom. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's one of her passions, Like, that's her goal is

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Speaker 1: to help people to live on as little money as possible.

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Speaker 1: And so, like we said, buying used it's more affordable,

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Speaker 1: but also by default it's better for the environment. There's

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Speaker 1: little to know packaging, and also it just doesn't trigger

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Speaker 1: that manufacturing of new items. I think it's worth noting

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Speaker 1: what Katie does buy new. She buys new underwear, socks,

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Speaker 1: and perishables, right, And that's good because I don't know Matt.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever been a good will, you're you're looking around.

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Speaker 1: If you've looked at the underwear section, it's pretty growdy.

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Speaker 1: And so is there an actual underwear section? Yes? There is, Yes,

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Speaker 1: of course they sell underwear, They sell bras, they sell

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Speaker 1: everything that someone might wear underneath their clothes and socks.

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Speaker 1: I will draw the line in that area. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna wear your socks, still bother me, But underwear that's

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Speaker 1: like a whole different thing. You would wear you socks

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Speaker 1: if they're clean, okay, all right, like darn tough, or

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Speaker 1: you know some of those nice like Vermont Will, like

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Speaker 1: lifetime warranty socks, dude, I totally pick. Some of those

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Speaker 1: are those often found at the thrift store. I bet

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Speaker 1: they are okay, especially after the Mrie condo epidemic. If

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Speaker 1: anybody could find them, Katie could because she is a

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Speaker 1: master good will shopper. But her husband will buy new

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Speaker 1: by the way, but let's get into her motto, Matt,

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Speaker 1: it's use it up, wear it out, make it do

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Speaker 1: or do without. And that's kind of the lens that

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Speaker 1: she views all her purchases through. That's right, Jill, So

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and break that down some so use

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Speaker 1: it up. And the way I interpret this is it's

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Speaker 1: mostly about reducing waste. As a country, we throw out

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Speaker 1: tons of freaking food. On average, we toss out one

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Speaker 1: pound per person a day. That's insane. Yeah, that's an

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Speaker 1: insane amount of food. It's estimated that we waste of

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Speaker 1: all the food that's prepared for us as a country.

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Speaker 1: I mean that is a huge amount, right, And so

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Speaker 1: not only is there a waste from a financial standpoint,

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Speaker 1: but just think about the impact environmentally of all the

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Speaker 1: resources and money that went into even creating like that

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Speaker 1: head of cabbage that you let go too long in

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Speaker 1: your fridge that now you're tossing out. It's just a

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Speaker 1: staggering amount of food. Yeah, so they use it up motto.

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Speaker 1: It specifically makes me think that mixtime you think about

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Speaker 1: going out to eat because there's nothing to eat in

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Speaker 1: your house, go through your freezer and your fridge and

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Speaker 1: your cabinet again, because I guarantee you most people can

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Speaker 1: make a meal or two or three out of what

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Speaker 1: they do have on hand, and so use it up.

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Speaker 1: It's just a great thing to consider before you go

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Speaker 1: off and and and make a purchase yea jule easily.

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Speaker 1: And so the next piece in your motto is to

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Speaker 1: wear it outs. And these are things that you already

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Speaker 1: have that might be getting old. I'm thinking about clothes

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Speaker 1: or even more extense of things like cars. Again, as

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Speaker 1: consumers were constantly fed like the new, shiny stuff, when

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Speaker 1: instead we have items that function perfectly but they're just

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Speaker 1: a little bit shabby, you know. I think this one's

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Speaker 1: a little bit related to the use it up, Like

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Speaker 1: there are things that you already have and instead of

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Speaker 1: replacing it, just use what you already have, or in

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Speaker 1: this case wear it out. Specifically, Matt on the car example,

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Speaker 1: people talk about driving a car until the quote unquote

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Speaker 1: wheels fall off, And I think it is easy to

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Speaker 1: get new car fever because your car has lost the

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Speaker 1: new car sent or you start to have a couple

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Speaker 1: of issues with it and you just get annoyed. You

428
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,239
Speaker 1: don't want to take your car into the mechanic and

429
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: go through the hassle of getting it fixed. But the

430
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: wear it out philosophy would say, you know what, it's

431
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: gonna be much better for your budget if you do

432
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: continue to hold onto that car and drive it until

433
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: the wheels fall off. Because if you get locked into

434
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: a new car loan or even just buy a nicer,

435
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: newer used car, that's gonna have like massive ramifications on

436
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 1: your monthly budget. For you is to come all right,

437
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: The next part is make it do. And again this

438
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 1: these are things that you already own, right, sort of

439
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 1: like with wear it Out, Like you already have these things.

440
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: But in this case, oftentimes you've identified a new problem

441
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: and you think, oh, I need a new item, I

442
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: need a new product to solve this problem. But chances

443
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: are it's vice versa. Right, Why does that remind me

444
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: of ice? Ice baby? What? You got a problem? I'll

445
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 1: solve it? Like you think you need this new product

446
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 1: to solve it. But honestly, man, I really think it's

447
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: the reverse. That's actually true. Like you see a product

448
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: and in your mind you create a problem that didn't

449
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: already exist. You see something and you think, okay, how

450
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: do I get my hands on that? Like how do

451
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: I convince myself? How do I convince my spouse a

452
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,479
Speaker 1: significant other that this is something that we need in

453
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: our life? And so you fabricate this problem, even maybe subconsciously.

454
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 1: It's not like you're actively trying to undermine your own finances.

455
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: But it's something that happens, and I think it's something

456
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: we need to be aware of that we already have

457
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: items and products in our in our life that work

458
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 1: perfectly well, and instead we just need to make it

459
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: do instead of purchased the next specialized product that will

460
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,479
Speaker 1: fix that specific problem. Yeah, Matt, what I think of

461
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: when I think of this tenant other than ice ice baby,

462
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: other than ice ice baby, is those infomercials that you'd

463
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: see on late night television, especially for kitchen items. There's

464
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 1: always a specialized new blender or rotisserie cooker or something

465
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: like that that you don't quite own. And I'll admit

466
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 1: that we own the instant pot and it's a great device,

467
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: and spot's awesome. It's pretty great. I'm not gonna knock

468
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: that it can actually eliminate a bunch of other devices,

469
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: so it is a great one. But late night infomercials

470
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: made a killing on essentially telling you that this problem

471
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: existed in your life and that you couldn't make certain

472
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: foods easily enough because you didn't have this glory device

473
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 1: that was gonna come in and save the day and

474
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: just make it so much easier for you. To make

475
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: tacos or homemade sauces and soups or whatever it might be.

476
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: So what you have to do is you have to

477
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: make do with what you have in your kitchen. That

478
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 1: new device or kitchen, countertop cooker, whatever it might be.

479
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: It might be like fancy and and do some cool stuff,

480
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: but you can completely make do with what you have.

481
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: It's more of a mindset issue than it is a

482
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: knee based issue. Yeah, and specifically, Man, I think this

483
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: is definitely true when it comes to electronics. I'll go

484
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: back to the TV example, because I've got the four KTV,

485
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: and guess what, I thought My old TV was perfectly

486
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: fine until that new TV came out and I saw it.

487
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: And then I looked at my TV and I thought, man,

488
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: this is Stevie's garbage, like, oh, the new one. And

489
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: so for me like that technology. Once that came along,

490
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: it pointed out the fact that whatever I used to

491
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: have that worked perfectly fine, that I was very happy with.

492
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: Maybe it wasn't quite sufficient in my case. I'll admit

493
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: I came up with a perfectly lame excuse to talk

494
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: us into buying a TV. I didn't finance it obviously,

495
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, I got something we could afford. However, did

496
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: we really need that? No, but it was something that

497
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: I convinced myself that we needed. So in this case,

498
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: Matt Katie would say, make it do deal with the

499
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 1: TV that you've got. It's perfectly fine. And the last

500
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: tenant of her motto is do without. So in case

501
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: you don't have something, it's also easy to convince yourself

502
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: that you have a legitimate need and you have to

503
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: buy that new thing. Even if you don't have an

504
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: item that fits the bill that meets that need, you know,

505
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: in all likelihood it's just a complete, the unnecessary purchase

506
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: that doesn't really serve you in the long run, and

507
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: so it might be better to borrow from a friend.

508
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: But that again is another mental obstacle where people don't

509
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: want to do without. We see other people that have things,

510
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 1: and we justify it in our mind. We don't want

511
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: to do without. We want to buy that new thing

512
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: because we think that it's going to have a major

513
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: impact on our personal happiness, and so instead of doing without,

514
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: we make the purchase and screw our finances in the process.

515
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: For me and personally, to make it, do and do

516
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: without mottoes are much harder for me to accept. When

517
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: I have something, I will use it up. When I

518
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: have something, I will wear it out, Like I have

519
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: no problems wearing something until it's threadbare or using a

520
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: tool that's just falling apart, you know, like out in

521
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: the yard. But when it comes to identifying like a

522
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: new problem and for me, like the making it do

523
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: and doing without, it's when I've identified, like when I

524
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: in my brain, I've convinced myself that there's a problem,

525
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: Like I'm a fixer, and so when I see something

526
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,959
Speaker 1: that I feel like needs fixing and there's a product

527
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: that solves that, well, that's what I'm gonna gravitate towards doing.

528
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have a tougher time with

529
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: one of these compared to the other. I think the

530
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: last tenant is the hard for me probably to do without,

531
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: and that is I think more of like a psychological

532
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: problem for me. It is coming to grips with the

533
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: idea that that is not something that I need in

534
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: my life. It's not a necessity, and I have to

535
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: retrain my brain to think because I'm used to that

536
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: easy purchase mentality. Because even though I'm cognizant of it.

537
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: I feel like my brain has gotten used to how

538
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: easy it is to purchase things in today's economy, and

539
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: I need to consistently remind myself that I can do

540
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: without that, I don't need that new thing. And and

541
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: that's just a retraining thing that's been taking time for me,

542
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: although I think I made progress. You know what I'm

543
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: thinking of? That would be like super helpful, like a

544
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: shot collar, Like a shot collar I'm thinking of, you know,

545
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: like on the missile nuclear launch buttons you have to

546
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: have like both keys. What if you and I had

547
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 1: to approve each other's purchases and so like I couldn't

548
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 1: just go on and make my own purchase. You had

549
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: to be like, Matt, buddy, are you sure you want

550
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: to make that purchase? And vice versa. You know what

551
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Then our friendship might have gone to a

552
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: whole another weird level. But I mean, just some accountability,

553
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: you know, like that way you can't just like on

554
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: your own makeup purchase without thinking about it. And I

555
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: mean that specifically reminds me though of of a Seinfeld

556
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: episode where George is trying to break up with this

557
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: girl and she says it's like a submarine where they

558
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 1: both have to turn their keys to to initiate their

559
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: weapons at the same time, and he's at one point

560
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: he screams, Area's like turn your key, mora. And so

561
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: it just makes me makes me think of that that

562
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: if that's what it takes in order for me to

563
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: make a purchase, there's definitely a lot more friction involved

564
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: in that transaction. Right, sine field Man, how old are you?

565
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: I feel like sinfel is such an old school thing,

566
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: not that old, not as old as you. That's true.

567
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: So Katie's motto, I love it right. Another awesome point

568
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: that she made is how there's a misunderstanding of what

569
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: it means to be environmentally responsible, and she says that

570
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: we mistakenly think that it's something that you can buy

571
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: your way into. And she get the example of, right,

572
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: the organic bamboo floors, you know, and we're like, the

573
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: floors that you had were perfectly fine. It makes me

574
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: think of folks I even know who have made the

575
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: purchase of like a new Prius where they're thinking, oh, yeah,

576
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: this is gonna be better for the environment, where they

577
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: had maybe a ten year old vehicle that was perfectly fine,

578
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: when in reality, the most environmentally friendly, and the most

579
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: environmentally conscious thing they could have done was continue to

580
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: drive that old vehicle, because when they purchased that new vehicle,

581
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier, it triggers the manufacturer of

582
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: a new vehicle. And certainly there's a tipping point, right Like,

583
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: if you're driving around like an original Hummer, chances are

584
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: that's probably gonna be worse for the environment than maybe

585
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: buying the nubrious. However, most folks aren't driving an h

586
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: one Hummer. You need to consider the things that we

587
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: already have and hanging onto those things instead of purchasing

588
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: things that we might consider to be more environmentally friendly

589
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: is the better way to go. Yeah, Matt, being green,

590
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: being environmentally conscious, that's that's a good thing. But I

591
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: feel like to a certain extent, going green has kind

592
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: of taken on this alternative identity, and there's almost like

593
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: a competition in our society for who can be the

594
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: most green, and we wear it like a badge of honor.

595
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: And there's certain things that just signal to other people

596
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: that we are more green than everybody else, something like

597
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: driving an electric car or a Prius. But Katie makes

598
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: a great point if you're buying something new and perpetuating

599
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: the consumeristic cycle just to buy something that's quote unquote green, Well,

600
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: you're probably not making the most green choice. So it's

601
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: important when we're talking about out not buying new stuff,

602
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: to not justify buying new stuff because of the green

603
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: factor when what you have right now is perfectly usable

604
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: and it's actually more green just to continue the way

605
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: things are. Yeah, Jue, I think it's worth mentioning how

606
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: being green in the way that our media portrays it,

607
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: you know, like the way you see it on commercials

608
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: and the way you see on TV, like it's very pretty.

609
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: But that way of being environmentally conscious is extremely expensive.

610
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: Like just go to Instagram and Pinterest and you know,

611
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 1: like the sort of green, natural lifestyle. It's not an

612
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: affordable lifestyle. I don't see it even being that different

613
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: than someone that has like the membership at a country

614
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: club or or a golf course or something like that,

615
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: Like that's just part of their identity. They're paying a

616
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: lot of money for it. I think in the same way,

617
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: we can get pulled into being green as part of

618
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: our identity and lifestyle, and that's when it becomes part

619
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: of our consumption. And when we make unwise financial decisions. So, Man,

620
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: it turns out buying used is actually one of the

621
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: best ways to help us avoid buying stuff new. So

622
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that and also give you some

623
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: tips to help you if you struggle with just buying

624
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: too much junk. Right after the break our jealous Land

625
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: this plane of an episode, we're now going to talk

626
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: about buying us. We're gonna talk about some tips and

627
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: some additional thoughts. So buying used it allows us to

628
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: purchase quality items that last longer and can be repaired.

629
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: And this is the core of the debate between quality

630
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: versus cheap or in this case, the cheap quantity of items.

631
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: And Joel, the problem is is that the items that

632
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: are manufactured today are not meant to be repaired. They're

633
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: not meant to be passed down maybe from a father

634
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: to a son or a mother to a daughter. Appliances

635
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: in particular are not made the way they used to be.

636
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Like you had a plan to repair people, but today

637
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: what happens when something breaks Typically it's not worth the time,

638
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: it's not worth the parts that you would even put

639
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: in it to get it up and working again. However,

640
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: the decision still lies with us as consumers, so make

641
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: sure when you are looking at things to purchase that

642
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: you are considering quality, that you are considering how long

643
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: will this thing actually last? Like she mentioned like the

644
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: particle board stuff. We know know that the particle board

645
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: stuff from my Kea. It's good for a season, and

646
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: even if you're trying to move it from one room

647
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: to another, like it may not last that move. Been there,

648
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: done that exactly. Yeah. So I think that idea of

649
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: buying quality used goods for a cheaper price instead of

650
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: buying a poorly manufactured new item, that's a great way

651
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: to kind of think about your purchases, and even if

652
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: you do decide to buy new, maybe spending more for

653
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: something that's higher quality that you can keep around longer. Sorry, Katie,

654
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: I know that's not how you roll, But Matt, I

655
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: become more okay with paying a higher price for an

656
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: item up front that I plan on having around for

657
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: a long time and just buying less trendy goods that

658
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: I'm not tempted to replace sooner. I feel like that's

659
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 1: better for the way I think about buying goods, and

660
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: I think it's better for the environment as well. Whether

661
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm buying a used item or a new item, trying

662
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: to find that quality good that's worth my money that

663
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to have in my life for a long

664
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: time to come. Yeah, and I do think. I mean,

665
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: what Katy would argue though, is that you can get

666
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: quality to just make sure you're buying it used. There's

667
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: so much money that you can save by doing that.

668
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: And she called out our Frugal Versus Cheap episode, which

669
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: is a classic, but she kind of mentioned how buying

670
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: used is sort of that third option, how you can

671
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: get those quality goods for that cheap price without appearing cheap.

672
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: And it's so true, like that is the problem is

673
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: oftentimes people don't want to look cheap. They don't want

674
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: to be the cheap guy, they don't want to be

675
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: the cheap girl. And buying used to sort of this cheat,

676
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's this work around where you are able

677
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: to get the quality stuff for that cheap price. And

678
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: Joel you mentioned like you'd be less tempted to replace

679
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: like a trendy item. You know, another benefit is not

680
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: getting hit with that depreciation of buying that new item.

681
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: In particular with cars, we've talked about that how quickly

682
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: cars depreciate over the first five years. I would say

683
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: that's the case with the items that we buy, they'd

684
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: appreciate like crazy. So you know what, let somebody else

685
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: take that financial hit and you can show up a

686
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: couple of years later and by the item used for

687
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: way less. All right, let's get into some practical steps

688
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: that people can take in order to kind of help

689
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: them along in this process. The first thing to consider

690
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: is any way that you can avoid the temptation to

691
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: buy new that's gonna help you out in the long run.

692
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: It's people that you follow on Instagram that tempts you

693
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: to buy new clothes or beauty supplies or whatever it

694
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: might be. Consider un following those people or just getting

695
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: on Instagram less often. If you find yourself running to

696
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: Amazon to do a one click purchase, maybe take the

697
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: app off your phone and consider ditching that Amazon Prime membership.

698
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: Anyway that you can avoid the temptation in your life

699
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: to buy new, I think it's worth considering. And in particular,

700
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: man if it's like at one time use item, if

701
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: it's something that you're probably hardly ever going to use,

702
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: consider borrowing it. I recently did this in the neighborhood

703
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: with a tiller. I needed to tell some of the

704
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: backyard because with the renovation that kind of got chewed

705
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: up back there, and I wanted to get some green

706
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: stuff growing. And I just threw it out there in

707
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: the neighborhood, and a neighbor right down the street said, yeah,

708
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: come on buy, it'll be out there for you. I

709
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: got to meet a new incredibly generous neighbor. Well he's

710
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: not new, he's been around for like twenty years, but

711
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: now you know, I'm he's new to you. Yeah, he's

712
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: new to me. And now he's a buddy. And so

713
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: I didn't have to buy this item that I would

714
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: probably rarely ever use. So yeah, I look to borrow

715
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 1: whenever you can. It's also smart to create an enforce

716
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: a delayed per just rule. So this has been successful

717
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: for lots of folks when they're trying to eliminate their

718
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: habit of buying new stuff. Think about creating a rule

719
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: where when you have an item that you're really excited

720
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: to buy, we'll take twenty four hours. Some people institute

721
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: a four day rule or a one week rule, you know,

722
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: whenever it takes to kind of help you assess a

723
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: buying decision so that you're not buying on a whim.

724
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: But if you know that you are actually going to

725
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: buy something, consider used items and you can do that

726
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: via different apps like offer Up. You can use the

727
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: marketplace on Facebook. We've mentioned that one more recently because

728
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: it's just gotten to be such a robust form where

729
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: you can purchase used items. But then obviously there's eBay.

730
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: It's because Classic in eBay specifically is a great alternative

731
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: to Amazon. If you're going to buy quality stuff, you know,

732
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: it's just as easy to hop over to eBay into

733
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: a quick search as it is Amazon. If that's how

734
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: you're used to purchasing your stuff. Also, consider going Katie

735
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: Woke Stanley style and go to your local goodwill or

736
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: thrift store. I feel like I find the coolest plaid

737
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: shirts at the thrift store all the time. And if

738
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: you're into plaid like I am, and the third store

739
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: is like the perfect place for you to go. It's amazing.

740
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: Are there more or less plaid shirts in Portland than

741
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: there are in Atlanta? Are they all snatched up because

742
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: you're in Portland? Or are they all being discarded because

743
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: there's just so many of them? That's a great question.

744
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: I'll have to reach out to Katie and get the

745
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: answer on that one. Also, consider avoiding sales altogether if

746
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: they cause you to spend more. I know this was

747
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: my mentality for a long time. If I found something

748
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: on sale, I'd buy it because I thought I was

749
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: saving money, But usually I ended up spending more because

750
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: I bought more crap that I didn't need. And so

751
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: if that is your mentality, if you jump on sales

752
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: and you're excited about off all the time, well chances

753
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: are you're buying stuff that you don't need. With that

754
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: kind of Black Friday mentality, that's when you would buy

755
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: like six huge boxes of cheese it's right, and they'd

756
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: show up, show up on the doorstep. That might have

757
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: happened one time, and you know what, cheese it's aren't

758
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: good for you. So maybe I should have stayed away

759
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: from that altogether. Yeah, junk definitely applies to that purchase

760
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: as well. Right, that was the old Joel though, come on,

761
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: don't judge. And then Matt, the last tip to help

762
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: you avoid buying new stuff is to remember your bigger goals.

763
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: That's your why behind money. We did an episode on

764
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: that quite a while back. But thinking about those bigger

765
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: money goals can help you stave off those smaller purchases,

766
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: and especially those new purchases that you might make on

767
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: a whim. And so we're working on that actually with

768
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: my five year old right now, she wants to buy

769
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: a jump rope, and so she's got a few dollars

770
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: in the piggy bank, but we're really trying to help

771
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: her understand that if she doesn't spend it now on

772
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: smaller stuff, but she can save up and she can

773
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: have that jump rope. But if she spends it on

774
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: little knickknacks, now, it's gonna take a lot longer before

775
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: she ends up getting that jump rope you want. So

776
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: in the same way, if you can remind yourself, if

777
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: you can write down, if you can put it in

778
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: front of your face, those bigger goals that you have,

779
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna help you have the willpower to avoid those

780
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: smaller purchases that will make it much harder to achieve

781
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: those ultimate goals that you have. Well, you mentioned that

782
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: you're working on that with Selma, with your daughter. I'm

783
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: working on that with myself specifically. I've been looking at

784
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: bikes lately and I'm trying to convince myself or remind

785
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: myself that no, this isn't something I need. Right, my

786
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: desire to have a bike isn't greater than my desire

787
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: to not be stressed and to work more, because I

788
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: think I need to earn some more money to pay

789
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: for that bike. And let's be clear, you have multiple bikes,

790
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: so it's not like, yeah, I've got a couple of bikes.

791
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: It's not like it's the one bike that you would

792
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: help you get around town. It's like the third bike

793
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: that would be another one in your arsenal exactly. It's

794
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: it's a bike that would allow me to do some

795
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: very specific things and I've convinced myself that I need it.

796
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: But again, just like you said with your daughter, it's

797
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: the same thing as for us as adults. I mean

798
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: keeping our larger goals in mind. And for me, that's

799
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: being less stressed about money. For us, we're still working

800
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: on this renovation, like we've got to get this thing

801
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: knocked out and wrapped up as well. So yeah, keeping

802
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: those larger goals in mind is is so key, and

803
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: I do that for myself as well. Yeah, Matt, I

804
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: need those reminders in my life too, write It's not

805
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: just me teaching my daughter, it's me teaching myself at

806
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: the same time. And so, yeah, I want to buy

807
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: less new stuff. I'm encouraged by Katie. I mean, I

808
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: really am too. Yeah, I just want to buy fewer things.

809
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: It's been said that the things that you own ultimately

810
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: end up owning you, and I feel like that's the case.

811
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: And the fewer things I buy, the better I am

812
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: at saying no to new purchases. The more control I

813
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: feel like I gained over my own life and ownership.

814
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I have over the direction that I'm

815
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: headed in, not just financially, but it's just those things

816
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: just clutter everything up. Nice. All right, I'm gonna now

817
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: take us back to the beer again. We're drinking the

818
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: Aisy Dream Sickle Double I p A, which is my

819
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: Arizona Wilderness Brewing. Would you think of this beer, man? Yeah? Man,

820
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 1: this reminded me of We've got this kind of old

821
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: school Hamburger hot dog kind of place I knew you're

822
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: gonna say, in downtown Atlanta. It's called the Varsity, and

823
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: they've got this drink called the Frosted Orange, and it

824
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: kind of tasted like that in my mind. Like it

825
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: it just kind of brought me back to childhood a

826
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: little bit drinking a beer, which sounds weird because I'm

827
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: supposed to be drinking beer as a kid, But it

828
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: reminded me of the frosted orange and it totally has

829
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: that kind of orange cream cycle flavor going on really nicely. Yeah,

830
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: well the reason it does is this I p A

831
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: has It is brewed with lactose, which is milk sugar,

832
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: so it gives it that creaminess right to where it

833
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: almost has that ice cream like texture and even flavor

834
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: on this one because it has vanilla in it as well,

835
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: so it really is like it's this orange beer mixed

836
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: with ice cream. But yeah, I love that it had

837
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: that vanilla and it almost felt like it had a

838
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: touch of spice because of the sort of sharpness maybe

839
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: from the orange, like they have this edge to it.

840
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: Super delicious and yeah, we to thank Brandon again, thank

841
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: you so much for sending this beer. And don't any

842
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: to the show. All right, Matt, let's get to our

843
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: final thoughts. And you and I were not necessarily convinced

844
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: that we should never ever ever buy anything new ever again.

845
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: But I will say, I'm so impressed by Katie's efforts

846
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: in this. Since two thousand seven, for twelve years, she

847
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: hasn't bought anything new except for literally like underwear and perishables.

848
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: And to me, that's just uplifting to see someone creating

849
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: a hard line in the sand. And you know what,

850
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, that might be what we need,

851
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: that kick in the pants to create some hard lines.

852
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: And that's not only going to be a help to

853
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: the kind of environmental concerns by the over consumption that

854
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: happens in our country, but at the same time just

855
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: a massive help to our financial future. Joel and I

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00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: like that you said kick in the pants. We say

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00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: that often, but just being challenged, and that's how I

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00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 1: view Katie's message, just just it truly is a challenge,

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00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: and I want to end it with her motto, which

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00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: is use it up, wear it out, make it do

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00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: or do without. You don't have to kind of cold

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00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: turkey stop buying anything new, but yeah, at least consider

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00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: what you can get used to. Really be challenged to

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00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: buy fewer things all together. Yeah, Matt, I love it

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00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: when our episodes challenge us as much as they do

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00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: our listeners. And so yeah, this one was definitely that.

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Speaker 1: So thanks again to Katie walk Stanley for coming on

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00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: the show. Her website if you want to find out more,

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00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: is the Non Consumer Advocate dot com. And speaking of websites,

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00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: if you want the show notes for this episode, you

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00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: can go to our website which is how to Money

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00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: dot com. And if you have found this episode helpful,

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00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: we would love if you were to leave a review.

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00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: You can hop over to Apple podcast and mash that

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00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: five stars and you know what it's worth mentioning to

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00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: Katie was the very first reviewer that we ever had

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00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Katie, we really appreciate all your support

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00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: from the very beginning before anyone believed in us. Yeah,

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00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: thanks so much, Katie and Matt. Until next time, Best

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00:39:47,600 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: friends out, Best friends Out, M M.